Toy Federation vs Toy Attics: Who Really Owns the Show?

[00:00:00] Speaker 1: There is a toy store called Toy Federation that I honestly think might be the world's greatest vintage toy store. And part of the reason I feel that way is the show they put out every Saturday morning. The owner hired a production company to film the toy collections coming in and help grow the channel. And they were getting close to 100,000 subscribers when their relationship fell apart. Now the filmmaker is putting footage from the store on his own channel. He says he hasn't been paid and a customer says he never agreed to appear there. So who gets to use that footage when they stop working together? And what should they have agreed on before any of this happened? So if you haven't watched Toy Federation, this is a channel that, like Clockwork, releases a new video at 8 o'clock every Saturday morning. And it's how I like to start my weekends. There's another toy channel I watch, which is Pixel Dan. And there's a channel called Toy Addicts that used to put out more content around the same time too. So I've been watching these guys pretty religiously for years. It's almost like having Saturday morning cartoons. You've got these shows you look forward to, and that's what you sit down to watch. And I actually found Toy Federation through a video from one of my favorite YouTubers, Retro Rick. For my son! I'm in Kansas City, and I've never been to the Toy Federation store in person. But I really, really want to go. This is a bucket list for me. It's hard to justify a trip just to visit a toy store. But if I'm out that way in South Carolina, you better believe I'm going there. So everything I'm telling you about how much I like this place comes from watching the content that these people made. The owner is a guy named Ryan. And when I call it the world's greatest vintage toy store, that's probably something he wouldn't say about himself. But for me it is. It's not necessarily the biggest or the most successful. There's just something special about the way he runs it. And a lot of that comes down to his philosophy about the toys he sells. From watching the show, the thing that stands out to me is that they want those vintage toys complete. All the accessories and in good condition before they ever put them out on the shelf. And if you collect the stuff, you know how difficult that can be. You can find the figure. But finding the right weapon, that little piece everybody lost or broke when they were a little kid, is a whole other thing. So the amount of knowledge you need to have, or the people you need to have around you who know that stuff, is pretty impressive. And Ryan himself is entertaining. He's engaging. He knows a lot about these toys and his love of them comes through in the way he talks about them. So when somebody brings in this big collection and they start opening the boxes, for me, it's like being a kid on Christmas morning. You're seeing things you remember having, finding out what they're worth, how rare they are, or discovering something you didn't even know existed. So for lack of a better description, it's kind of the Pawn Stars for toys. And I think Ryan is the biggest part of why that works. It's his store, his knowledge, and his access to all these people bringing in collections. But the reason I got so interested in what's happening there is that I also really respect the filmmaker who helped put that show together. His name is Matt. And he's the guy who runs Toy Addicts, that other channel I mentioned earlier. He also has a video production company and Toy Federation was a client of that company. He was filming the content, editing it, producing the show, and helping build and grow the YouTube channel. So when I talk about what Matt contributed, I'm talking about that entire relationship. If you've watched his own content, he approaches it very much like a documentary filmmaker. He's done stories about other toy stores, things about his own collecting philosophy, interviews with other creators. And there's this professionalism and quality that really, I think, is pretty rare. As somebody who makes YouTube videos, that really interests me. But obviously, I'm also a toy collector. So putting those two things together is kind of the sweet spot for me. And he's talked about the work that goes into growing a channel. Things like figuring out which footage needs to go at the beginning so people keep watching past that 30-second mark. How you put a story together. What you do with the title and thumbnail. This work that you might not think about when you're just sitting there enjoying an episode on a Saturday morning. But it's part of what he is doing. So you've got what I consider the world's greatest vintage toy store. And then you've got this filmmaker who knows how to take what's happening there and turn it into a show and the channel gets close to 100,000 subscribers in just a couple of years. Matt did a video on his filmmaking channel talking about how he'd never gotten that first 100,000 subscriber play button. Toy Federation was around 95,000 when he talked about it. And he followed that up with another video about what he was trying to do to get the channel over that hump. And you know, I have a little channel around 4,300 subscribers. I've been doing this for about three years. 100,000 feels almost unreachable to me. So watching how excited he was, and then finding out that they parted ways before getting there. I sympathize with them to be that close to something you've been working toward and then no longer be involved. I mean, that really hits you in the feels. But I didn't actually know they'd even split until I saw a video from a YouTuber called Heck and Steve about it. And then I started looking at what was being posted on Toy Addicts and what people were saying in the comments. Because footage filmed at Toy Federation was now showing up on Matt's channel. That's where this got a little more complicated than just being disappointed that two people stopped working together. So what seems to be happening in some of this conversation is that people have already decided Matt is the bad guy because he put those videos on his channel. And I have some problems with that decision myself, which I'll get into later. But I don't think we know enough to make this a black and white, good and evil thing. I've heard the stories about him wanting more money or raising his prices. Matt has also said there was work he wasn't paid for. I haven't seen their agreement or invoices. So I can't tell you exactly why they parted ways or who owes what to who. I also don't know that Ryan has objected to these uploads in the same way some of the viewers seem to be. A lot of what we're seeing is just other people reacting to what they're seeing. And there's another part of this that stood out to me when I watched one of the newer Toy Federation episodes. Right away, I noticed problems with the sound. There was background noise and the static-like sound. And parts of the picture looked completely blown out. The bright areas were just way, way too bright. So what had been this polished, for lack of a better word, Pawn Stars for Toys episode every week, didn't look or sound the same to me. That doesn't tell me what equipment they used or what happened behind the scenes. But as a viewer, the difference was noticeable. And that's why, even though I think Ryan and the store are the biggest reasons the channel works, I don't think you can undercut the research, the knowledge, and the skills that Matt brought to it. I think the combination is what made it so good. Now, one example that caught my attention was the Kenner Superpowers collections. I'm a huge Kenner Superpowers fan and collect them myself. And Toy Addicts had a video up about those toys and how they were being put together for the Toy Federation's Retro ToyCon. Then Toy Federation put out its own Superpowers episode. And from what I saw, it was different footage covering that same trade-in. I saw people saying Toy Federation had gone back and reshot things. Maybe that's what happened here. But seeing two different versions doesn't tell us why or whether somebody was refusing to hand over the recordings. What it does make me think about, as somebody who runs and has run a business, is what happens to all the work that's sitting there when you stop working together. Because the channel itself and the footage aren't necessarily the same thing, right? From what I've seen, Ryan still controls the Toy Federation channel. But there could be finished episodes that haven't been uploaded yet. Recordings that haven't been edited. And the editing projects somebody would need to go in and finish. As a business owner, I would want to know which of those things I'm getting when I pay somebody to produce content for me. And I think a lot of people would assume that, because it's your business and you hired somebody to make the video, you own it. I can understand that. It's your name, it's your likeness, your store, and you're paying for the work. But when you hire an independent person or a company to do creative work, paying them doesn't automatically transfer the copyright to you. Under U.S. copyright law, the starting point is generally that the person who creates the work owns the copyright. There are exceptions. Work an employee creates as part of their job can belong to the employer as work made for hire. Certain commissioned work can qualify too, including contributions to an audiovisual work. But you have to meet the legal requirements and have the required agreement signed by both sides. Or you can have a signed agreement that transfers the copyright over. So when I say the creator generally owns it, that doesn't mean I can look at this and tell you Matt personally owns every recording. His company is involved. And we need to know who created what and what rights were transferred to the company or to Toy Federation. The agreement could also let the company keep ownership while giving Toy Federation permission to use the work, which is called licensing. And even if the production company kept the copyright, that still wouldn't necessarily mean it could put the footage anywhere it wanted. If you promised the client that the content was exclusively for their channel or agreed you'd need permission to reuse it, those promises matter. So the question about whether Matt can publish it on Toy Addicts doesn't get answered just by saying, hey, he filmed it. Now, from Matt's perspective as a creator, I would want to be paid for the work I did. If I spent my time filming there, even if the video never got used, I still spent those hours. If I did the research, editing, the work to help run the channel, I would expect to be compensated for that too. But we need to know what the unpaid work actually was and how payment was tied to the rights. If the agreement says ownership transfers only after full payment, that can make a difference. If rights had already transferred or the client already had permission to use the footage, an unpaid bill doesn't automatically take those rights back. There can be a payment dispute where the client still has a license to use the work. So being owed money doesn't, by itself, settle whether either side can do with the video. And from an ethics standpoint, honestly, I'm torn. I can understand looking at footage you spent time producing and thinking, I need to make something from this work. On the other hand, taking what looks like an episode made for the other channel, putting your own introduction on the front of it, and publishing it on your channel after that relationship is ended, I don't know that I agree with that either. Matt's explanation that he really wanted people to see what he had created doesn't really resolve that for me. Of course people will want to see it. It's compelling content, and there are people like me who already watch Toy Federation every single week. I can see how putting it on your own channel could bring those viewers over. Whether that's why Matt did it, I can't tell you. But I understand why people would look at it and be uncomfortable. At the same time, if there really is work he's entitled to be paid for and hasn't been, that matters. So I can have a problem with how he chose to use the footage and still think it's unfair just to dismiss his side of this thing. And then you've got somebody else who's caught up in this whole thing who wasn't part of any business relationship at all. In the comments on one of the Toy Addicts videos, a customer who was featured says he agreed to be filmed for the Toy Federation channel, and he never gave his permission for that footage to be used on Toy Addicts. So now, on top of the disagreement about the work, you've got a question about whether the person in the video agreed to even be in it to begin with. Honestly, if that were me, I don't know that I would care all that much about which channel it appeared on. If I knew I was going to be in a major YouTube video, I'd probably just want to know where it was so I could go watch it and show people, look, that's me! Being used as a pawn in somebody else's fight, yeah, that would bother me. But that's how I would feel. And it doesn't tell us what this customer agreed to. There are apparently filming notices posted all over the store. The description I've seen says you're entering an area where recording happens and that you could appear in their content. But I'd want to see what the actual wording before treating that as permission for a separate channel to publish the footage on its own. Agreeing that Toy Federation can put you in an episode and agreeing that a production company can use that recording independently could be completely different things. And owning the copyright doesn't automatically settle that question either. You can own a recording and still have obligations about how you use it. At the same time, documentary or editorial use doesn't always require a signed release. So the fact that he objects doesn't automatically mean the upload is unlawful either. The context and the law that applies matter. And just having ads on a YouTube video doesn't answer that question. So I wouldn't tell that guy agreeing to be filmed means he agreed to absolutely anything that might happen with the footage. And personally, I've had my own content used on other channels. And what bothers me is when it's taken out of context to make it seem like I said something I didn't. The way something gets used matters to people, even when the person using it thinks they're entitled to do it. And this is where the whole situation starts to look familiar to me from running a business. Because you've got people who came into a relationship to make something together. And now that it's ended, there are questions about what each of them gets to do with the work. That's the conversation I would want to have before we ever got to this point. When I owned my company, we'd be contracted to build websites. And a lot of those jobs were pretty straightforward. We'd design the site, develop it, deliver it, and then it was up to the customer to run it. There would usually be a fixed fee, an estimate, or a statement of work. If they needed us to make updates later, we'd agree on that work separately. We also did web hosting. And that was an ongoing service with terms of service that addressed what happened if somebody didn't pay. So if service was suspended for an unpaid balance, that was something covered by the terms they'd agreed to. It wasn't just me deciding, well, you owe me money, so I guess I can do whatever I want with your website. And when I look at what Matt was doing, I see a similar need to be clear about the different parts of the relationship. There's producing the videos. Then there's serving as the YouTube expert who helps grow the channel. Obviously, those things go hand in hand. And with a smaller channel, it's often the same person doing everything. But there's still different services. And I'd want the agreement to reflect what I was actually being hired to do. That includes what happens as the work changes and the channel gets more successful. If I'm doing the filming and editing, but I'm also spending hours on research, thumbnails, titles, and figuring out what's going to help the channel grow, I want that work recognized in how I'm being paid. So I would want to find points where we can have that conversation. Maybe the agreement runs for six months or a year, and we negotiate the next rate when we renew. Maybe there's a bonus at an agreed milestone or some kind of revenue share. And if we're sharing revenue, we need to agree on what revenue we mean and how it gets calculated. There are different ways to do it, but I don't want either person having to guess what success is supposed to mean for them. Because in this situation, the value goes beyond the ad revenue from the videos. It can bring people into the store, introduce them to the eBay business, or make them aware of a toy convention they had no idea existed. I'm sitting here telling you that I want to go visit a store I've never been to because of the videos I've watched. So there's a marketing benefit there that you're not going to see just by looking at the money YouTube paid out. Now, at the same time, if I hire an agency to make a commercial and that commercial brings more business into my store, I don't think that agency automatically deserves a share of those sales. We'd have to have agreed to that. But when we go to make the next commercial, I can absolutely understand them saying, Hey, look, we have a track record of success together, and this is what we want to charge for the next one. So I can understand both sides of this conversation. Asking for more money going forward doesn't automatically make somebody unreasonable. And the client deciding that they don't want to pay the new rate doesn't automatically make them unreasonable either. What I'd want is a clear time to negotiate that and a clear way to finish the existing work if we decide we're not going to keep working together. If I'm Ryan, I'm going to want to know that the channel stays under my control and that I can keep using the content I paid for. I'd also want to know what happens to the footage that hasn't been turned into an episode yet. If somebody else is going to take over, do they get those recordings and the editing projects? And do they have permission to finish the work? Getting the files and getting the rights to use them are both things I would want covered. And if I'm Matt, I'm going to want the payment schedule spelled out, including what I get paid for work that's already underway when the client decides to stop. I'd want to know when any rights transfer, what happens if the payment doesn't come through, what notice I have to give before stopping work. If I'm expected to finish a backlog or help another person take over, I want to know how much work that involves and how I'm going to get paid for it. Then I would be very specific about the thing people are arguing about here. Can the production company publish material made for Toy Federation on Toy Addicts? If the agreement lets you show examples of your work, does that mean a short clip in your portfolio? Or does it mean you can upload entire episode to your own monetized channel? Those are very different things. And I want both of us to understand which one we'd agreed to. The same goes for the people in the videos. If you're relying on a release or a filming notice, somebody needs to be responsible for making sure it covers the uses you actually intend. And for keeping those records. If there's music or other materials in the episode, you need to know the permission to use that goes with it too. Otherwise, you could hand the client a finished video and leave them with another problem neither of you expected. And I'd want a process for dealing with a disagreement. Who gets notified? How much time do they have to fix the issue? How do we resolve it if we still don't agree? That matters a lot more once money's involved and people are upset than it does on the day everybody's excited to start working together. This is something I'd think about whether I was hiring somebody to film videos, design a logo, build a website, even produce art for a comic. I want to know what I'm paying for, what rights I'm getting, and what the other person can still do with that work. And I wouldn't assume putting the words work made for hire in there fixes everything, because different kinds of work can be treated differently. I'd want an agreement that actually does what we intend. Even the idea for the show is different from the episodes themselves. Shows like Pawn Stars and American Pickers have been around a long time. The general idea of people coming into a store and selling collectibles isn't something copyright lets one person own. So who deserves credit for making this particular channel successful? And who has the rights to a particular recording are questions you have to work through separately. And you know, I'm disappointed that these are the questions we're asking about two people whose work I really enjoy. I want to keep watching Ryan and the collections coming into the store. And I respect the quality of Matt brought to those stories. I can have concerns about what happened with the footage without wanting either of them to fail. But one thing I've learned over the years as a business owner is that although we don't like it, inevitably, all relationships end. And they can end good, they can end bad, but they will end. So when you start a relationship, your contract and your statement of work really need to define what happens when that relationship ends. As the business owner, you want to make sure your rights are protected. The things you owned and brought into it, you can walk away with. And the things you paid for and purchased, you can walk away with. Likewise, if you're the person being contracted with, you want to do the same thing, right? You want your rights protected as well. So when the inevitable happens and that relationship ends, whether good or bad, you both know what it looks like. And the goal is that even if it does end badly, you can get through it civilly. In a way that doesn't add to the animosity. Life never goes perfectly. But that step at the beginning, when you're forming the relationship and deciding what you're agreeing to, is absolutely critical to how you're going to deal with the end. If you enjoyed this video, let me know by smashing the like button and commenting. Should Matt be allowed to publish Toy Federation content on his own channel, even though their relationship has ended? As always, thanks for subscribing. And until next time, have fun.