Tom Steyer On Affordability and PG&E at KQED Governor Town Hall — Political Breakdown

[0:00] Please welcome Tom Steyer. [0:01] I'm just going to run through a little bit about how this evening will go. [0:12] We'll talk a little bit about your vision for California, your campaign, then we're [0:17] going to start getting some questions from our audience. [0:20] We tried to select audience members with kind of a cross-section of topics and questions. [0:26] Audience members are going to read their own questions. [0:28] KQED did not edit these ahead of time, and we did not share them with Tom Steyer ahead [0:33] of time, and then we'll give you a chance to respond, and then maybe I'll have some follow-ups [0:38] along the way. [0:38] So if that's all, okay, we can get started. [0:41] Great. [0:41] We are in the stretch run here, one week until Election Day, and it's been interesting hearing [0:48] you kind of articulate your closing message to California voters. [0:52] I think a big part of that hearing from you has been this idea of judge me by my enemies. [0:59] I've heard you say that kind of on the campaign trail as we get close to Election Day. [1:03] What does that mean to you, judge me by my enemies? [1:06] Well, one of the things that's happened in this race is that I have been talking about [1:12] the need for California to be affordable for Californians, and that there are corporate [1:18] special interests in this state driving up the costs in virtually every area. [1:25] California. [1:26] And that for us to actually make California affordable for Californians, we're going to [1:32] have to make some structural changes that are going to disadvantage some of those corporate [1:37] special interests. [1:38] And as a result, they have spent $50 million trying to prevent me from becoming governor and [1:46] have spent an awful lot of money backing anybody but me. [1:50] So, you know, PG&E, which is the local electric monopoly, has spent over $12 million. [1:59] Chevron has spent a lot of money. [2:01] The second biggest oil driller has, Meta has, Uber has, the largest lobby group against single [2:10] payer has. [2:11] And then a lot of very rich people have been backing everybody but me. [2:15] And so I say, look, if you know that Chevron is spending millions of dollars against me, [2:23] you know something, which is, I do have an environmental program. [2:28] I do think polluters should pay. [2:30] And I've been talking about the need for a windfall profits tax. [2:34] And if PG&E is spending $12 million plus against me, you know that I'm going to do something [2:40] about electric rates and that they think I'm going to do something about electric rates because [2:45] no one, none of these corporations invest because they like somebody. [2:50] They spend money against me because they don't like what I'm going to do. [2:55] And so their opposition or the fact that Trump has posted negative things about me or the [3:02] head of ICE has posted negative things about me says something, I can't get them to do that. [3:09] They're doing that of their own free will. [3:11] So if you look at the people who are spending money or going online to oppose me, it's a [3:17] pretty good sense that, okay, I must be on the other side of those questions. [3:22] And in every one of those, I'm very proud to have those people opposing me because it [3:27] I am. [3:30] And I honestly would be ashamed to be some of the other people running for governor who [3:35] are taking their money. [3:37] Because by definition, if you're taking money from some of these corporations, then that [3:43] means they believe for sure you're going to do their bidding. [3:48] That's why they're giving the money that they're investing in their future bottom line. [3:53] And if I would be ashamed for that, because my whole goal in this campaign is to work without [3:59] conflict and without compromise for working Californians in this state. [4:04] And if I'm if I were taking money from some of these corporations, I'd know that I would [4:07] have to compromise and that I would have to do their bidding. [4:10] And I'm not going to do that. [4:11] If you win if you win this election and you become governor, all of those enemies are still [4:17] going to be there. [4:18] PG&E is still going to be our largest utility in Northern California. [4:22] The California Medical Association is still going to be there representing doctors at the [4:25] capitol. [4:26] So how would you build productive relationships with those? [4:30] Well, I'd start by not using the words enemy. [4:33] I really would. [4:35] So that ends after the campaign. [4:36] I don't see it that way. [4:37] I see it differently. [4:39] They're pursuing an interest. [4:41] Look, take PG&E. [4:43] They're an electric monopoly. [4:46] They charge Californians twice as much as the average in the United States of America. [4:52] OK, I don't want Californians to pay twice as much as the average. [4:56] I always go outside on a bright sunny day and go like, does the sun not shine in California? [5:00] Is there some reason we don't have cheap electricity here? [5:04] And so I want to represent. [5:06] That doesn't make them an enemy. [5:08] They are following what we've set up in what is an electric monopoly where you get paid based [5:16] on how many capital expenditures they make. [5:19] And they're doing that rigorously to make as much money and they're making record profits. [5:23] OK, I want to change that and I don't believe in monopolies. [5:26] Like, everyone acts like introducing competition to electricity generation storage and distributions is communism. [5:36] It's like, that's not communism. [5:37] When there's competition in the world, that's how we keep prices down. [5:42] And that's how we take advantage of new innovation and, you know, the ability of people to do things cheaper. [5:50] So, I don't look at them as doing something evil. [5:55] I look at them as following their interests rigorously against the interest of working people. [6:00] And I'm on that side of working people. [6:02] So I'm going to change the rules to the extent I can so we drive down prices so people aren't [6:06] paying twice as much. [6:07] It's just not right. [6:08] Yeah. [6:09] You've talked about, I mean, change, I think, is also a big message. [6:12] Your campaign kind of taking on the status quo in California politics. [6:15] I'm curious if you see the current governor, Gavin Newsom, as the status quo. [6:21] And where do you feel like he's failed to make that structural change? [6:24] Well, I think that Governor Newsom actually is a progressive and I think we share an awful [6:32] lot of values. [6:34] I think that there are a couple of things that I want to do that he hasn't wanted to do. [6:39] For instance, as an example, I've said for this state to work, the billionaires and big [6:44] corporations need to pay their fair share. [6:46] And frankly, for those of you who have watched every one of these debates, first of all, [6:53] I pity you. [6:55] Second of all, look, they had the seven candidates with the highest polling numbers on stage and [7:03] asked them who would vote to support a billionaire's tax. [7:08] And only one person said yes, and it was me. [7:11] And yet we look at a state, we have the richest state in the country. [7:15] We have the most billionaires. [7:17] We have the highest poverty rate. [7:19] We don't have a school system in the top 10. [7:21] We're somewhere in the 30s. [7:22] We used to be number one. [7:25] We are struggling in many ways to deliver the things that the people of California need. [7:30] And so, you know, I look at this, I think I look at that as something that has to happen [7:37] in a smart way so that we can have what I call shared prosperity. [7:42] We have prosperity. [7:43] It's just not being shared. [7:45] And, you know, I always say 12 trillionaires and 40 million people who can't make rent is [7:50] not success. [7:53] On average, it looks like success. [7:55] But if you go around California and see how people are living and you see people fully [8:01] employed for 20 years living in their cars, you see people giving up health care to make [8:05] rent, you see people really, really struggling who are fully employed, who have, you know, [8:13] played by the rules, done the right things. [8:15] It's not working for them. [8:16] We need to make some substantive changes. [8:20] And I want to do it in a way that we keep our prosperity. [8:24] But I absolutely believe that the working people of this state are struggling way more than [8:28] it's fair. [8:29] And they're not getting served the way they should. [8:32] And part of it is about that. [8:34] And you know, we could go through all the different things I'm doing. [8:36] Some of them are different, certainly from anyone else running for governor. [8:41] You've spent an awful lot of your own money on this campaign. [8:44] I think it's up over $213 million at this point. [8:49] I'm curious how you think about the ways in which you might use your wealth as governor. [8:55] So the Platte, we are the largest, most populous, richest state in the United States of America. [9:06] We are the leading voice for progressive ideas and imagining a just future in the United States [9:15] of America. [9:17] If California can't get this right for working people in the 21st century, when we are half [9:24] of the growth in the United States, when we are 60% of the world's AI valuations, California, [9:35] with the kind of money we have, with the kind of wealth we're creating, if we can't make [9:41] this work broadly for the 40 million people who work here, I think that's a terrible statement [9:47] for the world. [9:48] And it's terrible for the people who work here. [9:50] I am going to commit, I mean, my wife, Kat Taylor is sitting in the front row and we have [9:55] worked together over the decades to get, you know, on multiple things. [10:01] And we're completely committed to getting kind of a just, equitable, successful, prosperous [10:09] California. [10:10] And, you know, when you ask me, what am I willing to do? [10:12] Look, we, we've pledged to give our money away while we're alive. [10:16] We are. [10:17] I know what you're asking. [10:18] You're asking me, am I going to run propositions with my money guy? [10:21] I know that's your question. [10:22] And I'm asking a, I'm answering in a broader way to say, which we are in this period. [10:28] We are in this for everything we have in terms of energy, everything we have in terms of wealth. [10:35] We are in to try to make this state better. [10:37] And that is what we've been trying to do. [10:39] This is not new. [10:41] Running for governor is, and the, what things I'm pushing for are completely consistent [10:46] with what I've been doing for the last 14 years. [10:48] And certainly Catherine's been doing it as well. [10:50] We are absolutely committed to working for working people, for preserving the natural [10:55] world to get, you know, to addressing the structural issues in California. [10:59] So people have better lives and to prove to people again, that the government of the state [11:04] can make their lives better, that they can actually think about buying a home, that that's [11:09] a possibility that we can expect to have great education, that the government is going [11:14] to succeed in getting things done and that we're building a great society together. [11:19] That is, you know, there is no limit to how much I care about that. [11:22] Yeah. [11:23] All right. [11:24] Let's welcome up our first questioner this evening. [11:25] Good evening. [11:29] My name is Beth Schieber-Ternage. [11:31] I'm an energy consultant, energy conservation consultant from Concord. [11:37] And my question is, economic vitality, affordable housing, and top-tier education, crucial to California's [11:43] future compete for resources very often. [11:46] As governor, how will you balance keeping businesses in-state while expanding housing [11:53] and raising education standards for all? [11:56] So that's a great question. [12:00] Let me say this. [12:03] In the past 15 years, I've run three statewide propositions. [12:09] All of them have raised or protected billions of dollars for California in either education [12:16] or healthcare without costing Californians, Californian citizens a penny. [12:22] And none of them have hurt us economically. [12:24] So, you know, if you look at what I'm proposing in this race, I'm proposing to close a corporate [12:31] real estate tax loophole called split roll that's failed before, which is worth $20 billion [12:38] a year to the state of California and specifically to the counties. [12:43] A little under half of it under Prop 98 will go to education. [12:47] The rest of it will go overwhelmingly to healthcare. [12:50] In answer to your question, do I believe specifically there that that will harm our economy in some [12:57] way? [12:58] No. [12:59] As I like to say, no one is moving Disneyland to Austin, Texas, Miami, Florida, or Reno, Nevada. [13:06] The truth is doing things. [13:09] We have big tax loopholes. [13:12] People are not paying their fair share. [13:13] And we have to think about actually raising revenues in ways that do not cause people to [13:23] businesses to want to leave the state that actually are practical, that get the job done without [13:30] giving disincentive or hurting businesses. [13:33] So the other thing that we're talking about doing, just so you know, for instance, we're [13:38] talking about something called Water's Edge, where corporations get to declare where they [13:44] make their money for part of their income. [13:46] And it costs the state about $4 to $5 billion a year. [13:49] Does anyone in this room get to declare where they earn their money and they say it's Ireland? [13:53] I don't. [13:54] I don't. [13:56] So I mean, to a large extent, I absolutely believe that the billionaires and corporations [14:01] should pay their fair share. [14:02] And I want to do it in a way so that they are good citizens, so they pay their fair share, [14:07] so that they can take pride in creating the kind of society we all know California should [14:12] be, but it doesn't hurt their business and doesn't give them an incentive to move someplace [14:18] else. [14:19] You know, I went to Stanford Business School. [14:21] I built a business from zero to $38 billion. [14:25] I think I know something about business. [14:28] And so I'm going to be very intent on making sure that we do this in a way that works and [14:34] works for business. [14:35] So that's why I said to Guy, I don't want to call these people my enemies. [14:39] I don't want that. [14:40] I'm for shared prosperity. [14:42] And you know what? [14:43] I don't want to share prosperity if there's no prosperity. [14:45] Disneyland might not be going anywhere, but here's the office vacancy rates we're dealing [14:50] with in first quarter of 2026 in the Bay Area, 31% in San Francisco, 31% in San Jose, [14:57] almost 38% in downtown Oakland. [15:00] Is now the right time to be raising taxes on real estate? [15:04] Well, let me make a point. [15:05] Let's talk for a second about commercial real estate, office real estate in the Bay Area. [15:12] Something happened. [15:14] What happened was we had a COVID epidemic and a lot of people decided that they could [15:19] work from home. [15:20] And as a result, we had an awful lot of people who didn't want to make the commute, didn't [15:26] have to make the commute and realized, oh my God, an hour and a half each way is three [15:31] hours a day that I can spend with my family and have a better life. [15:34] And so we have reduced demand for office space in the Bay Area. [15:39] Okay. [15:40] I agree with that. [15:43] That isn't something about people leaving the Bay Area. [15:45] That isn't a knock on San Francisco. [15:48] That's a change in our society where people want to do just the way they do distant learning. [15:54] They do distance medicine and they want to work from home to a large extent. [15:59] I completely understand that. [16:00] The question in my mind is when we look at those cities where we don't have enough housing, [16:07] and I'm one of the people who believe that we should be building houses in the city around [16:11] public transportation, okay, does anybody see we have buildings we don't need and buildings [16:18] we need to build in the same place? [16:19] But you're saying to those office landlords you want to raise their taxes? [16:23] The taxes will be based on the value of the building guy so that Disneyland, the value [16:30] has shot up. [16:31] You're talking about valuing things. [16:32] An empty office building is not worth a lot, you guys, just so you know. [16:35] It's worth the land underneath it. [16:37] So in every one of these cases, there's no unjustness here. [16:40] Okay. [16:41] There's no injustice here asking people to pay real estate taxes based on the actual [16:46] value of their real estate for corporations. [16:49] That's not unjust. [16:50] That's completely fair. [16:51] Truthfully. [16:53] Love to welcome up our second questioner. [16:55] Hello. [16:59] I'm April Northrup. [17:00] I'm a school board member in Belmont Redwood Shores School District. [17:05] Many school districts in California are facing declining enrollment and subsequently declining [17:12] funding from the state, leading to layoffs and school closures. [17:18] Will you work with the legislature to increase per-pupil spending? [17:24] So let me say this. [17:26] When I talk about split roll, that I'll call a special election on day one to basically close [17:34] this corporate real estate loophole, by law, almost half of that money goes to schools. [17:42] And I absolutely want that to happen because I want to talk for a second about education. [17:47] And let me say, both of the teachers unions in this state have endorsed me. [17:52] The school employees have endorsed me. [17:56] And there's a reason for it. [17:57] Because there is a myth in California that we're paying a lot for teachers and they're [18:02] not doing a good job. [18:04] And that somehow the system and the accountability has broken down. [18:08] The truth is, if you look on a cost-adjusted basis, we pay something in the 30s out of [18:13] 50 states. [18:14] We're not close. [18:15] We're not in the top half. [18:17] And we're not close to it. [18:20] If you go to the research, the number one thing that makes kids have good outcomes is [18:25] excellent teachers. [18:27] I always thought it was teacher-student ratio. [18:29] But the number one thing by far is how good are the teachers? [18:33] So if you think about that from a common sense standpoint, you want excellent teachers. [18:38] You have to recruit them. [18:40] You have to train them. [18:42] And you have to retain them. [18:44] It's very hard to hire teachers in California because often they can't afford to live in [18:50] the districts where they're teaching because they're not very well compensated for California. [18:56] We don't spend enough on training. [18:58] Catherine and I have a good friend who's a third-year teacher. [19:01] She's had one hour of training in those three years. [19:03] And then it's hard to retain them. [19:05] So I want that money to go through the teachers so that we get the outcomes for the kids. [19:11] And I think it's absolutely critical. [19:13] And I want it to go disproportionately to the school districts that are most vulnerable, [19:18] where the kids need it the most. [19:19] But that's something where, look, great societies take care of their kids. [19:26] The kids are literally the future of our society. [19:29] If we're not training them for the 21st century, I don't know how we think that we're going to [19:34] be competitive with people around the world. [19:37] So my mom was a teacher, taught in some very low-income public schools. [19:46] And then she taught in prison when she retired from teaching in public schools. [19:49] My brother's been an advocate for at-risk kids his whole life. [19:53] I'm absolutely intent on making sure that the young people in our society are taken care [19:59] of, that we deliver for them, and we have the money for it. [20:04] And that's a big reason I'm for, you know, passing split roll. [20:07] That money is needed in our school systems for this state to be great at schools. [20:12] And we absolutely have to be great at school if we're going to be the state we want to be. [20:16] That idea, though, raising split roll, raising commercial property taxes, you hinted at this. [20:22] It was on the ballot in 2020, huge Democratic electorate. [20:27] The measure did not pass. [20:28] So give me one way your campaign would be different. [20:30] So let me say this. [20:33] We took on, in 2010, the oil companies. [20:37] And they were trying to gut cap and trade. [20:40] And everybody told us, you never beat the oil companies in the state of California. [20:44] You're a fool. [20:45] You're a naive fool. [20:46] And I did it with a Republican, George Schultz, who was a good friend of mine and I believe [20:51] to be a good man. [20:54] And we got 70% of the vote. [20:56] And George, who was 89 years old, would always say, we're not going to beat the oil companies. [20:59] We're going to smash the oil companies. [21:01] And we did. [21:02] And we took on the tobacco companies in 2016, 20 years the legislature had not passed adequate [21:09] tobacco taxes. [21:10] Once again, people said, this is never going to work. [21:12] And we easily won. [21:14] Look, this is an idea whose time has definitely come. [21:18] They lost 52-48 in 2020. [21:20] I know that. [21:22] I also know this is an idea whose time has come, and we need to make that clear to people. [21:26] And every time, and the third time, people also said we'd lose to the out-of-state companies [21:30] that were rooking us on their state income taxes in California, and we beat them handily [21:35] too. [21:36] This is something that is fair. [21:38] We're not asking for something unfair in any way, shape, or form. [21:42] The money is necessary for California to progress. [21:46] And so, in the past, when that's been true, I've picked my fights when I believe it's [21:53] absolutely just and absolutely necessary. [21:56] And we've won by a lot. [21:58] And I expect to win by a lot, if you want to know the truth. [22:00] Because to me, this is a... [22:01] People would say it's harder to take on. [22:03] When you're talking about property taxes, it's businesses across the state. [22:07] It's one thing to beat a tobacco company. [22:10] This seems to be a more difficult task, no? [22:13] Well, first of all, we'll have a... [22:15] It'll only be larger companies, so it's not going to be all the small mom-and-pop businesses. [22:20] But also, look, there's a sense in California, certainly on the corporate side, that they [22:26] own us. [22:27] Honestly. [22:28] I mean, the idea that PG&E thinks they have a right to a legal monopoly in the state of [22:33] California, and they will do anything to protect it. [22:37] I mean, pardon me, but I disagree completely. [22:41] The idea that literally the head of the Western States Power Association, which is the lobby [22:47] for the oil companies and for Chevron, said in a hearing in Sacramento two weeks ago, it [22:54] is the duty of Chevron to extract every penny they can from Californians and use the Iran [23:01] war to do it. [23:03] Do I think that's okay? [23:05] No. [23:06] And do I think it's... [23:07] You know, do I believe that we're running this state for corporations? [23:09] I don't. [23:11] I believe we're running this state for working people. [23:13] And that is actually what this entire race for governor is about, is are the working people [23:21] of this state going to be fairly treated or not? [23:24] And this is a perfect example. [23:26] There's no reason that corporations should be paying real estate tax based on 1970s valuations. [23:34] It's a loophole. [23:35] It's a straight up loophole. [23:38] And everybody loves loophole. [23:40] If the people in this audience and you and I had a $20 billion loophole, we would think [23:45] of an explanation for why it's unfair to change it. [23:48] But the truth is, it isn't unfair to change it. [23:50] And what I'm talking about doing is not unjust. [23:52] It's actually fair. [23:54] And that's why I brought it up because Disneyland should pay taxes based on the value of Disneyland, [24:02] not the value of Disneyland in the 1970s. [24:05] And that's the truth. [24:06] And they're making billions of dollars. [24:08] So empty office buildings are not going to pay high taxes because they're not worth anything. [24:14] But in all of this stuff, in thinking about how to change this, and this was my point, [24:18] we need to have the revenue to have this state deliver the services people need. [24:24] And we need to do it in a just way that doesn't hurt business. [24:28] And of course, people are going to argue that they don't want to pay more taxes because they [24:31] always say that. [24:32] But this is an absolutely fair thing where they have a loophole that they should never [24:36] have gotten. [24:37] And they've been riding it for 40 or 50 years. [24:40] And I don't think it's fair. [24:43] And I think we should end it. [24:44] I'd love to welcome our next questioner. [24:46] Hi, Tom. [24:52] My name is Lena Shaw. [24:54] And I have been executive assistant in the finance industry for over 15 years. [25:00] I live here in San Francisco. [25:02] I was fortunate to live in my rent-controlled apartment for over 20 years. [25:10] When I moved, the owner updated it and put it out on the market for $3,100 a month in [25:16] rent from my $850 a month in rent. [25:21] So my direct question is, how are you going to lower housing costs in California? [25:27] The how is what I'm asking as landlords seem to charge whatever they want. [25:33] So let me start with the question about rent, and then let me talk about how we're going [25:41] to drop both the cost of housing overall. [25:46] Because ultimately, the only way we drop the cost of housing is by building a lot more housing, [25:51] a lot cheaper. [25:53] But in the meantime, I want to make sure that people understand I'm for greatly expanding [25:57] the renter's credit. [25:59] Because if California is unaffordable for Californians, the biggest bill at the end of every month [26:05] for almost everybody is their housing bill. [26:08] It's either their rent check or their mortgage check. [26:11] And it is eating people up. [26:15] So I want people to know, I want to greatly expand the renter's credit because people get [26:19] to write off their mortgage payment, but they don't get to write off their rent. [26:22] And that's not fair. [26:23] And I also want to enforce the rental protections that prevent rent spikes. [26:28] But let me talk about how we're going to build housing. [26:31] Because there are tens of thousands of permitted zoned units in the city of San Francisco that [26:39] are not being built, because they can't be built to a price that anyone can afford. [26:44] So it's not just a question of permitting and zoning, which is everybody's supposition. [26:49] So let's just start with, we do need to permit faster and cheaper. [26:53] That is time is money in real estate. [26:55] And we need to simplify this and get a whole bunch of agencies doing conflicting permitting [27:01] shorter. [27:02] And we do need to zone. [27:03] I do believe what I was saying to you, Guy, which is we want to build in cities around [27:09] public transportation or in towns around public transportation for a whole bunch of reasons. [27:14] Catherine and I started a nonprofit community bank that has financed 17,000 low-income housing [27:21] units. [27:22] Let me say this. [27:23] The state of California has a bigger balance sheet than we do by a fair bid. [27:27] We are not using that balance sheet effectively in terms of helping people build and helping [27:33] people buy. [27:34] So that means not only lending money at subsidized rates, but also doing down payment assistance. [27:41] That is a huge balance sheet. [27:42] We can definitely use it to help. [27:45] And then there are two more things that I think are critical in terms of actually building. [27:48] I've said we'll build a million houses that people can afford. [27:53] We can't keep building the way we're building physically. [27:57] And there are technologies now to basically industrially construct houses offsite and assemble [28:03] them onsite. [28:05] And that right now drives down the cost about a quarter. [28:08] And I believe that there are economies of scale that will, as they get bigger and get better, [28:14] they will drive the cost down more. [28:16] And that is critical. [28:17] A 25% drop in cost per square foot by using technologies. [28:22] And we can use the government to help them do that and to drive it down further. [28:27] And the last thing is this. [28:29] The counties of this state do not want to build housing. [28:33] They would all much rather have a used car lot that pays taxes and doesn't use services [28:39] than have new housing that will be filled with what I think are called people who require [28:45] services for healthcare. [28:47] They require services for the education of their kids. [28:51] And the counties don't have the money to take care of those people. [28:54] That's why they charge big upfront fees up to 20% the cost of the house. [28:58] And that's why they push back all the time to try and prevent housing. [29:03] And the point about passing split role, it is about education and it is about healthcare. [29:09] But it is also about saying to the counties, building housing is not an unfunded mandate [29:15] for you anymore. [29:17] We are not asking you to take care of people and not giving you any money to do it. [29:21] In fact, we're giving you the money to do it. [29:24] And that is something that I think is a huge lever to work with the counties to get them [29:28] to stop pushing back against any housing, which has gone on for decades. [29:35] California used to build a lot of houses. [29:37] We don't anymore. [29:39] And the opposition of cities and counties is probably the single biggest reason for that. [29:44] And split role is a very important lever, using money to grease the skids to get housing built. [29:50] Quickly, on rent, currently the state has a cap of around 10% for, they call it rent gouging, [29:56] but for rent increases. [29:58] That expires in 2030. [30:00] Would you support extending that, lowering the allowable rent? [30:03] Right. [30:04] We absolutely have to have something like that. [30:05] That was actually a bill that was passed with the support of big property owners, big [30:12] apartment holders. [30:14] We absolutely need something like that. [30:16] Personally, I would like to see something lower than 10%. [30:21] If you do that compound, that is a really high compound, you guys. [30:25] And so we are seeing, look, if you go around this state, you really do see people living [30:32] in their cars who've been fully employed for 20 years. [30:35] The number one, the fastest growing people of the homeless population, the fastest group [30:41] is over 65 years old. [30:44] These are people who can't make rent or lost their house. [30:49] So when we think about what's going on here, it is absolutely critical that we build this [30:53] housing and that we drive down the, it's critical. [30:56] And people are suffering. [30:57] So this is not something that we can take our time about and, you know, scratch our heads [31:02] and ponder it. [31:04] We have to get going. [31:05] And we've got to do this because it really is hurting us. [31:09] And it is the number one cost for people. [31:11] And it's the number one reason. [31:13] It's good for families. [31:14] It's good for businesses. [31:15] It is a huge problem for businesses that housing is so expensive in California and that healthcare [31:21] is so expensive. [31:22] It just is. [31:23] That's one of the reasons it's hard to be a business in California. [31:25] Next questioner, Zach, Zach Holmes, are you here? [31:33] Hi, Mr. Steyer. [31:34] I'm Zach. [31:35] I'm an impact investor in Oakland. [31:36] My question is about AI and the effects on the workforce. [31:41] California is the world's capital of innovation. [31:44] It's also where some of the most consequential decisions for society will be made during the [31:48] next governor's term. [31:49] According to the tracker jobsloss.ai, over 250,000 people have been affected directly [31:55] by AI-related layoffs so far. [31:57] And OpenAI and Anthropics' own research says this is just the beginning. [32:02] What specific policies will you put in place to best support workers in this period of change, [32:06] while also ensuring that we continue to be the hotbed of technological progress? [32:10] So that, of course, is an incredibly important question in this governor's race, but it's [32:17] an important question for this state. [32:18] And I want to say that one of the great policy failures of my lifetime has been watching the [32:27] failure in the Midwest of the United States to protect workers, particularly in the auto [32:33] industry, but also in a lot of other industries, when international competition and mechanization [32:39] hollowed it out. [32:40] And if you look at what happened to the big cities of the Midwest, to Detroit, to Gary, to Akron, [32:49] to Cleveland, it really was a hollowing out of the whole society. [32:53] And that is something that we cannot have happen in the state of California as a result of AI. [32:59] So you should say, I will say, we have a very detailed AI policy on our website. [33:05] In all of these things, if you want to get into more gory detail than I will tonight, [33:11] very, I encourage you to go on our website, better than Sominex, cheaper. [33:18] But let me say this about AI, because I shouldn't joke about it, because it's deadly serious. [33:22] The number one thing about AI is, we have to protect workers. [33:26] And it's unclear exactly how much it's going to affect workers, because people have a lot [33:30] of different estimates. [33:33] But this is something that could be absolutely brutal for workers in multiple across society. [33:42] And we have said, our number one policy on AI is going to be to protect workers. [33:47] And that is going to be AI, we want it to be a tool for workers, not a replacement of workers. [33:53] And we've said, we are going to have to have a huge government effort upfront to make sure [33:59] that we have training for people to get good jobs. [34:02] There are a lot of jobs in California that are going, that need people. [34:06] And the question is, are people trained for those jobs? [34:09] And every one of the people, we're going to train for a specific job and we're guaranteeing. [34:15] And let me say, how are we going to pay for that? [34:17] Because one of the issues in this race is, people are promising a lot of things, but they're [34:21] not, it's not free to have a gigantic training program. [34:25] I think we'll do it through the community colleges, which I absolutely adore and that are set up [34:30] to do this. [34:31] And we'll do it in conjunction with businesses and with government agencies so that you're [34:36] working for a specific job at a specific wage at a specific time. [34:42] But the idea of how to pay for this, I shamelessly stole from the head of Anthropic, Dario Amadei, [34:50] who said, if this is going to happen and it's necessary to take care of these people. [34:56] And what we'll do is we'll have a very small fee for every calculation done by an AI company. [35:03] And that that money will go to protect workers. [35:06] That first and foremost, that will be to make sure that we're taking care of workers, that [35:10] if people lose their jobs, we're training, retraining them for young people, we are training them [35:16] for the jobs that they're no longer exist. [35:18] And let me say this, the estimates on AI, no one really knows exactly how this is going [35:23] to turn out. [35:25] And you know, I've talked to the most experienced people from the policy side and the heads of [35:30] these companies, nobody really knows. [35:33] But the estimates are that it's somewhere between huge and unbelievably huge. [35:38] That's the range. [35:40] And so if it turns out to be unbelievably huge, and the money for this is more than enough [35:46] to protect workers, which, you know, this is all hypothetical. [35:50] But if it is, we're going to use that as a sovereign wealth fund for California so that [35:57] we can pay for things that we want to do, but we can't do now like childcare for everybody [36:02] in the state of California. [36:03] Only 16% of the people who qualify for subsidized childcare get it. [36:08] And this is something where, look, when you think about, I mean, the Pope just came out [36:13] with an encyclical on this yesterday. [36:15] And he was basically saying, we can't run a society for corporations and machines. [36:23] We're a society of people. [36:26] And if we're going to have a new innovation, which we're very proud of, that California's [36:30] leading the world again in imagining the future and creating the future, great. [36:36] But we can't have it hollow out the people of this state and leave them in the lurch. [36:42] We can't be so anxious to win at the very top. [36:47] And these, the people in these companies are creating wealth at an literally historically [36:53] unimaginable rate. [36:55] We can't have that happen where all these people are being put out of jobs, are being [37:01] impoverished as a result of a machine basically taking all the information and experience and [37:08] creativity of society and charging for it and putting out of work all the people who actually [37:13] have the experience and the creativity and have put in all the work so that that can happen. [37:18] Yeah. [37:19] Elon Musk has an opinion about all of this, unsurprisingly. [37:23] He said, universal high income via checks issued by the federal government is the best way [37:28] to deal with unemployment caused by AI. [37:31] And I think you hear some arguments like that, that, you know, when you talk about training, [37:35] people think, oh, here we go again with NAFTA promises of training and getting people into [37:40] new jobs. [37:41] Why not base it on just giving money to people? [37:45] So let me talk about that for a second. [37:47] And I'm going to come out, I know this is going to seem surprising, I'm going to come [37:52] out on the side of the Pope instead of on the side of Elon Musk. [37:56] The Pope is talking about the dignity of human beings, the dignity of work, the meaning of [38:01] purpose, supporting people in having a meaningful life. [38:05] And that's what I'm in favor of, just so you know. [38:07] And by the way, Elon Musk is creating money in California, built his companies in California, [38:13] subsidized the heck out of his companies. [38:17] And last I talked, he's talking about a lot of money going to people, but he moved out [38:20] of California for some reason to a state that doesn't have income tax. [38:24] So I'm not going to listen too much to what Elon Musk says now or ever. [38:29] Put on the idea. [38:30] Look, no, I'm telling you, in my opinion, healthy societies have people participating, building [38:36] things together. [38:37] Healthy societies, people work and use their talents to create things. [38:43] And that's what California has always been about. [38:45] And I think it's absolutely important in this state that we support working people, that [38:49] we support them across the board, that we enable them, that we help train them, and that we take [38:55] that as a serious charge for our state. [38:56] And I absolutely do. [38:58] And that's exactly what the Pope is talking about. [39:00] And I believe he's right now. [39:02] Love to welcome our next questioner. [39:04] Hi, Tom. [39:09] I'm Julie Hamilton from Marin County. [39:12] I'm a director of growth strategy at an e-commerce company. [39:15] And my question is, women make 88 cents to the dollar that men earn and are overrepresented [39:23] in lower paying roles and underrepresented in top paying ones. [39:29] Childcare has much to do with that. [39:31] How do you plan to improve women's ability to join and succeed in the workforce? [39:41] So let me say that about childcare specifically, I want to start by saying I specifically reference [39:48] childcare with regard to the token tax or the fee on calculations for companies. [39:54] Because childcare for working families in this state is like another mortgage. [40:00] And it is an absolute limiting factor on women's being able to succeed in business for sure. [40:08] And that's why I was saying I'm absolutely intent on if we have money left over from that, [40:13] having it go to childcare because only 16% of the people who qualify for subsidized childcare [40:19] actually get it in the state of California. [40:21] And it is absolutely critical. [40:23] But I want to say something else about women in the workforce and structural genderization, [40:29] I don't know if that's a word, and racism. [40:32] If you go through and look at the jobs that were traditionally done by women, so whether that's [40:40] a teacher or a nurse or a home care worker or a childcare worker, those are jobs that traditionally [40:50] have been dramatically underpaid compared to the jobs that are traditionally done by men. [40:56] And so as we watch the changes in society and you look and see, so if you ever have a chance [41:03] to go and see what home care or childcare workers do on a daily basis, it's incredibly hard. [41:12] It's incredibly skilled. [41:14] They are very lowly paid. [41:16] They mostly don't get benefits. [41:18] They mostly don't get paid vacation and they mostly don't get retirement. [41:23] And that's a classic woman's job. [41:26] If you look at teachers, that is a profession. [41:30] Those are professional people who are critical for our state. [41:33] They're critical for our society. [41:35] It's not a well-paid profession. [41:37] And that is traditionally a woman's job. [41:40] And that's why we're here. [41:42] And let me say that my goal in thinking about compensation, in thinking about fairness, is to [41:49] always try to call out the structural injustices in our society. [41:58] Because unless you call them out, then you don't intentionally redress them. [42:03] And so we're talking about women and specific women's jobs. [42:08] But I can tell you this is certainly something that happens based on race. [42:12] And so there has been structural racism. [42:16] That's really the reason Kat and I started a nonprofit community bank, was to lend money [42:21] and to give credit to communities that the commercial banks had redlined forever. [42:29] And so I don't think it's possible to solve those problems without first announcing them, [42:33] and then trying to intentionally address them to the extent you can. [42:37] And I think for women, it's very clear why that's true. [42:40] Going after childcare as a critical thing for justice, as well as for, you know, productivity, [42:47] I think is a critical thing. [42:49] And so in every one of these instances, I'm going to try and be proactive about pointing [42:56] out the traditional injustice and therefore the need to intentionally address it. [43:01] Certainly true for women. [43:02] Awesome. [43:03] Welcome up our final questioner this evening. [43:12] Hello, Tom. [43:14] My name is Ryan Motzik. [43:15] I'm a Bay Area born and raised small business owner. [43:19] I also run a neighborhood organization in this neighborhood called the Mission Merchants Association. [43:24] We work with small businesses. [43:26] My question is, in places like San Francisco, extreme wealth exists alongside worsening street [43:32] conditions. [43:34] And in many ways, that wealth seems to have exacerbated the problem rather than improved it. [43:40] How would you ensure that California's economic success actually translates into safer streets, [43:46] better transit and a higher quality of life for everyone? [43:52] So let me say this is a critical issue in our state. [43:55] And I've been trying to directly or indirectly address it throughout this campaign and throughout [44:01] this evening. [44:03] That basically we have a state with the greatest inequality in the United States of America. [44:09] And it's worsening. [44:11] And therefore, when I think about it, what I'm saying about this state is this. [44:17] And it's going to come out in terms of how I think about what's a fair share and how people [44:22] should be treated. [44:23] And my basic point about San Francisco and California and the United States is these places [44:29] have been built by working people. [44:33] Sacrifices by working people. [44:35] Today was Memorial Day sacrifices by poor kids who stood up for democracy and freedom for [44:42] hundreds of years. [44:44] And as we look at this state, the idea that anybody earns their money themselves to me is [44:54] not only wrong, but upsetting. [44:57] As this is a society that has been built by the sacrifices of working people, of poor people, [45:05] of illiterate people for hundreds of years to stand up, to make it possible for people [45:10] to come here and imagine the future and create these companies and have these great successes. [45:15] And I think it's absolutely important that when we think about the society we're trying [45:20] to create to remember all those kids, the ones for the last hundred years, the ones today, [45:27] the people doing home care, the people teaching in the schools, the nurses, the people who make [45:32] this state work and run and possible. [45:36] And so when I think about, look, what I'm talking about, I want to have vibrant cities. [45:43] The future of California has to be building in cities. [45:46] They have to be safe streets and they have to be, we have the great advantage of being the [45:51] rainbow coalition. [45:52] There's incredibly interesting people across this state that we all can learn from each [45:56] other and have a very fun, wonderful experience in doing it. [46:01] And that is what these cities have got to be about. [46:05] And so to a very large extent, we need to have that and we've got to invest in that and we've [46:09] got to create it. [46:11] And that is something that everybody can share and everybody can take pride in. [46:16] And that's exactly what my campaign about is about, is trying to create that society that [46:22] is shared prosperity. [46:23] But it's also shared culture, shared learning, shared fun. [46:28] And I think that's what California, let's remember for a second, this is a really fun [46:33] place to live. [46:35] Like we've forgotten that it's supposed to be, this is incredibly gloriously beautiful, filled [46:41] with brilliant, creative, fun-loving people. [46:44] Let's remember that. [46:46] And let's have that in our cities. [46:48] And remember how fun it is to be in a vibrant city with all kinds of different cultures meeting [46:54] and mingling and learning from each other. [46:56] And that's exactly what I want to do in this day. [46:59] Yeah. [47:00] I'm sorry to go from that beautiful tapestry to Bart. [47:02] But I do want to ask, Ryan did ask specifically about public transit. [47:07] That is a key part of vibrant urban life in California cities. [47:12] What would the few, and so many of those agencies are struggling. [47:15] We need to support our public transportation. [47:17] We absolutely do. [47:19] We need to, we need to make it cheap and available for people to get places. [47:24] We need to build transportation from where there are places a lot of people to the places [47:28] where they want to go to. [47:29] That is going to be a critical part of the state working. [47:32] We cannot have hour and a half commutes as the standard for this state for a whole bunch [47:37] of reasons. [47:38] Transportation is by far the biggest pollution in the state of California on a climate basis [47:43] or just on an overall health basis. [47:45] We act, we're going to have to be doing our, we need to build and we need to build around [47:50] public transportation and we need to build more densely and that's just the truth. [47:53] Yeah. [47:54] I assume you're a Bay Area resident, you vote in San Francisco. [47:57] Are you supporting this? [47:58] There's going to be a ballot measure it looks like this November to fund BART, fund Caltrain. [48:02] I will. [48:03] Yes. [48:05] What do you see as the role of the next governor in all this? [48:08] Because this has been, it seems like every year we're facing a fiscal cliff with a lot [48:11] of these agents. [48:12] So let me say something. [48:13] I mean, I think there's been a sense and certainly there have been bestselling books written about [48:22] how poorly we build and how poorly we act in the physical world in this state. [48:28] And it's true. [48:29] I mean, if you look at the rate with which we're building houses and you look at some of [48:33] our big public projects, how over budget they are and how behind schedule they are, you know, [48:39] honestly, people are writing books about it on a historic basis and we just can't continue [48:45] to do that. [48:46] And look, you're looking at somebody who built a business from scratch. [48:50] I do math. [48:52] I do. [48:53] I hold people accountable. [48:55] We are going to, we need to do things in the physical world and we need to do them at [48:59] a price that people can afford and think about how to do that before we start. [49:04] And then we've got to get it done. [49:05] And that's really who I am. [49:07] I am a very practical person. [49:09] I want us to succeed. [49:10] I am team California. [49:12] I am absolutely competitive for the people of this state to be prosperous and to succeed. [49:17] And I want to do it in a way that everybody gets brought along. [49:20] Yeah. [49:21] Another thing Ryan touched on with that question is, you know, streets of our cities, homelessness. [49:28] Clearly that was such a big issue for this last governor. [49:32] One year he spent his entire state of the state talking about just homelessness. [49:36] What do you think of the job Newsom has done on that issue? [49:39] What would you do differently? [49:40] Well, look, I think the first thing to remember about homelessness is no one gets well on the [49:47] street. [49:48] So keeping people off the street, giving rental assistance to keep people from becoming homeless [49:55] is money very, very, very well spent. [49:59] And getting people off the street as fast as possible is the second best thing you can [50:06] do. [50:07] I mean, the strategy right now is basically shelters and long-term supportive housing. [50:14] A lot of people on the street don't want to move into shelters. [50:16] And that's the truth. [50:19] They don't feel safe. [50:20] There's no privacy. [50:23] They can't bring their animals. [50:24] Those are three really big deals for people who are living on the street. [50:29] We need to actually get people into something different that they want. [50:33] And I think that what's been working across California is emergency interim housing where [50:39] you get a room with a key. [50:41] You get shared dining and laundry facilities. [50:43] You can bring your animal and you don't have to be clean. [50:46] That is something that solves people's needs and gets them something they want and they're [50:50] willing to do. [50:52] And I think that to a very large extent, we need to be getting people for their sake. [50:59] The most compassionate thing we can do is get people off the street. [51:02] If you look, only one in seven people who become unhoused have a mental health problem [51:10] or some form of addiction. [51:12] Only one in seven. [51:13] But being on the street is so dangerous. [51:17] It is so stressful. [51:19] You are so vulnerable that it creates massive personal problems that are not easy to solve. [51:26] And therefore, keeping people off the street or getting them off the street as fast as [51:30] possible is the most compassionate thing we can do. [51:33] It's the smartest thing we can do. [51:34] It's the most effective thing we can do. [51:36] And by the way, if we're going to have what I'm talking about is safe streets that kids can [51:40] walk down, fun places for people to go. [51:43] It's a critical part of California. [51:45] Yeah. [51:46] We have just about 30 seconds left before we wrap up. [51:48] I want to give you a chance to make a closing comments to folks. [51:51] Look, you guys, everyone's talking like this is a complicated race. [51:53] It's not. [51:54] There's 60 people on the ballot, but only three people could possibly be in the top [51:58] two. [51:59] So let's talk Turkey for one second here. [52:01] There's a hard right Republican who's endorsed by Donald Trump. [52:05] And I don't want to talk about him because I don't agree with him in anything, literally. [52:09] So if you're going to vote for him, you're not going to vote for me. [52:12] Second of all, there's a corporate Dem, Javier Becerra, who's been taking money from all the [52:16] corporations that I'm talking about restructuring their bottom lines, which is Chevron, the [52:24] second biggest oil company in the state, Meta, Uber, all these, he's got money from the biggest [52:32] lobby against single payer. [52:34] And being asked, he said, the state's doing, asked what he would change last week. [52:39] He said, state's doing really well. [52:41] He didn't really have an answer. [52:44] If you want change in this state, if you believe this state is unaffordable for Californians, [52:49] if you want to take on the corporate interests, there's only one person who can possibly be [52:53] in the top two who's saying that. [52:54] And it's me. [52:55] Yeah. [52:56] I'm the person who's going to take on the corporate interests, and I'm the person that [53:00] working people are behind. [53:02] That is the choice in this election. [53:05] Do we want to change? [53:06] Do we want to take on the corporate interests? [53:08] Do we want to drive down costs? [53:10] If you do, I'm the person. [53:11] All right. [53:12] Tom Seyer, thank you so much for your time this evening. [53:14] I really appreciate it. [53:15] And I want to let folks know this is, as I said, the last of our town halls with gubernatorial [53:24] candidates, you can watch the previous ones that we did at youtube.com slash kqedlive. [53:30] For more election coverage and resources, you can check out our voter guide. [53:34] That's at kqed.org slash voterguide. [53:37] And you can listen to all of our interviews with the leading candidates for governor, not [53:40] all 62, but a few of them, on Political Breakdown wherever you get your podcasts. [53:46] Thanks to all of you for taking time tonight to attend, for everyone watching at home, listening [53:51] at home, and have a great night.