The FULL Pat Cummins press conference - SEN Cricket

[0:00] for coming everyone. Pat's just going to have a few words to say first and then he's more than [0:04] happy to answer some questions if you've got any. Thanks all for coming. First of all, great to see [0:12] you all day three of the Shield game. I've taken a bit of time this week to respond to [0:18] Usman's allegations. I've been trying to understand exactly what those allegations have been. That's [0:24] why it's taken me a few days. When he says we all knew, if by that he means that we knew Sam [0:32] paper's going out in the field, he's 100% wrong. I've said that consistently for the last eight years, [0:37] I did not know that was happening. But I think Usman actually says things that are actually far [0:44] more serious than that. He says that I and others were architects of a scheme to bore Tampa with [0:50] sandpaper. That's complete and utter nonsense. I was genuinely shocked this week when I found out [0:59] that Usman admitted that he told Cam to be careful when using sandpaper. That's not the Usman that I [1:06] know. It's not the Usman that I think that has been part of a team that's helped rebuild the [1:13] Australian cricket culture over the last eight years. And you know, the Usman that would have [1:22] stopped that from happening there and then. Usman's a friend, but friends aren't casual with each [1:28] other's lives and reputations. In his book, Uzi has been casual with my lives and the lives of many [1:35] others and I think Australian cricket. I support his right to tell a story 100%. I'm really glad that [1:42] he feels like he can, but we have to be accountable for the things that we say and do. So I'm here. [1:48] I'm happy to answer all your questions. I'll stay here until you have no more questions. I don't want [1:55] to talk about this again after today. So even if it takes all day, I've got to bowl at some stage, [1:59] but I'll answer all of them because at some point we've got to move on. So today I'll talk as Australian [2:05] captain right now, but I'll also talk about the 24 year old young guy and his recollections playing my [2:12] 13th test back in 2018 in a team that at that stage, I think had a win at all costs mentality [2:19] and an ugly underbelly. And there's too many silos within the team traits that I hope that everyone's [2:29] seen. And I tried very hard to eradicate for the last six years as captain. So I'm happy to take [2:35] all your questions about sandpaper, ball tampering, change rooms, international cricket, whether my wife [2:42] and I did have a spat out the front, whatever you want, hit me, I'm here. [2:46] So your version of events is that the three people have been dealt with, the only people [2:52] Yeah, if we're talking about taking sandpaper out in the front, all I can say is I did not [2:59] know that that was happening. I'm not sure if it was more than those three, but I did not know. [3:03] Your calling in a game of cricket has obviously been haunted. [3:08] Yep. [3:09] Did you think to yourself, how do we get the ball? How's the ball looking like this? [3:13] It's a good question. At that stage, you know, even the umpires had a look. [3:19] We didn't know it'd been altered with sandpaper, but reverse swings, very normal balls get, [3:25] um, you know, roughened up every time we play. So, you know, whether that's from a foreign [3:32] object or something that's totally legal and part of the game, sometimes it's hard to [3:35] know. But out there in the field, I did not see anything on the ball. [3:39] Yeah. [3:39] Sorry, Pete. Yeah. [3:42] Yeah, you're right. There was a lot of pressure around reverse swing, um, back in that series [4:17] and even in, you know, sometimes test cricket around then. Um, you might even mind me of [4:22] both questions, but I think one in terms of, did I know sandpaper was ever going to be taken [4:26] out on the field? No, never. [4:28] I mean, was it ever going to be used? [4:30] Not out on the field. No. So, you know, we can talk about sandpaper if we want. It's a very [4:35] normal thing around dressing room. We can go into more depth around that. But to then take [4:39] the leap to say, we're going to use this to affect the playing ball out in the middle. [4:44] No, I did. I was not aware. [4:47] That was news to me this week. I had no idea. Um, you know, even chatting a couple of the [4:52] guys, like that was a revelation to us. That was one of the things that really surprised [4:58] me because that doesn't happen anymore. The umpires give the ball out to in the middle. [5:02] So I don't remember that. I remember going to growing up, we used to watch for the umpire [5:07] dropping the ball, but I genuinely don't remember that being the case. I don't know when that [5:13] stopped. So that was a revelation to me this week. [5:15] Yeah. So just remind me of your previous question around a grand master plan. There was no master [5:27] plan around using illegal methods. I think that's maybe something that hasn't been spoken [5:34] about enough. People assume you've gone from very legal methods to suddenly taking sandpaper [5:40] and there must have been some huge master plan. Like the truth just that is not the case. [5:45] It's and we can talk about that before. That's that's one of the reasons why I really want to talk [5:50] through because context and details matter around this. There's no grand plan. There's no team meeting. [5:55] There's no bowlers saying this is what must happen. I think there's natural progressions that get you there. [6:01] Um, and was there a second part to say so? [6:04] Yeah. And while Daniel, did you know that the team was using it's downside? [6:08] I'd heard there's a lot of conversations in in change rooms around how to get reverse swing. [6:18] Most of them um, totally fine. Like you're always trying to perfect it. We just didn't sell it for a [6:24] couple weeks ago. It's it might be do we come around the wicket? Do we, you know, Stark is very [6:30] good at hitting one side of the ball. He'll try and bow into the rough. We're talking about methods [6:35] all the time. There's definitely been times where people tell stories of what they've seen, what's [6:41] happened. Um, other methods that other teams, you know, apparently use, which again, I'm happy to [6:48] talk about. Um, but no, no time did I hear here's an illegal method. Like let's, let's make sure we do this [6:56] and go out in the field. No, but yes or no, then were you aware of any plans at any stage on the [7:02] tour of South Africa in 2018 to sample with the ball by whatever means? No, but it says that everyone [7:10] was in it. You're saying not everyone was in it. You know, so one of you didn't tell you that one of [7:15] you is wrong. Well, that's my story. So I think he's wrong. You know, the thing is, he's a long time [7:25] 10 million years, he was a senior player, he's a friend, and he wasn't an attorney. How the hell [7:31] did he cohesionally? Which is basically collective value. Yeah, it's, you know, you know, some of [7:42] these things are probably true, you know, and they're his accounts of what happened. But I think [7:50] there's a few big leaps here, um, where he's, he's being vague and it, and I think you, the details [8:00] really matter in that difference. So perhaps there was conversations with Cam Bancroft around [8:07] taking sandpaper out, and how to do it. That doesn't mean that everyone in that dressing room [8:13] knew what was going on. Well, he's been very vague now, because since the quality was in his [8:17] game, he refused to answer the questions that he raised. Yeah. Yeah, you know, I said in, in my [8:27] statement, these, this was a very hot topic, it still is, obviously, it's a good turnout today. And [8:33] it affects real people. It affects people's lives. It also, you know, Australian cricket, [8:39] I love Australian cricket. It's, it's given me so much. This really affects, you know, [8:44] Australian cricket. And I think he's dealt with, you know, the way that he's presented, [8:50] you know, his story, I think he's done that in a very casual manner. And it affects a lot of people. [8:56] And that's why, you know, that's what I'm grappling with at the moment, because I don't think it's okay. [9:06] Yeah, I've seen it once. Um, I saw it in a shield game. Um, a couple of, well, [9:12] you know, sometime before, um, that South African tour is actually one is a, is a batter is a senior [9:19] player. I won't mention him, but, um, he took a bottle cap out in the field. And that was the [9:23] one time I've seen on the field. I was looking out and going, wow, that's, that's, that's not okay. [9:28] Um, it was dealt with the umpires knew it as well. They called him out and said, [9:33] you got to stop that right now. It was dealt with. That's the only time I've seen, yeah, [9:36] something illegal out there. [9:37] So two parts, first part, I don't remember any conversation around collective responsibility. [9:51] I don't remember any team meeting where he stood up and said, that's why this is a team. Um, so then, [10:13] you know, to the following, no, I've got no idea who those two people would be because I don't remember [10:17] ever being asked or having a conversation about it. [10:25] Yeah, I, I definitely don't remember that. And sorry, and I've spoken to quite a few other people [10:31] and exactly the same, trying to piece it all together. No one remembers a team meeting where [10:36] someone stood up and said, we've got to all own this. [10:55] Yeah, I got asked to be part of that review. Um, you know, there, there was some people that got [11:00] specifically asked, um, I think it was bowlers and I can't really remember who else. Um, and then [11:08] I remember specifically a couple of times saying, if anyone else has different accounts or anyone else [11:13] has information that I'd like to share, please come forward and do that. So I was, I did my interview. [11:19] I was totally truthful. I've been very consistent since then at that event till now, nothing's changed. [11:25] I actually even spoke to Todd today. He's like, I've read all the investigations. Guys have been very, [11:32] very consistent this whole time. So that's up to CA. Um, you know, part of why I think this is still [11:49] lingering after eight years is there's, there's a lot of context around this, which is hard to [11:54] explain and hard to articulate. And that's what I want to do today. But, um, like these, you know, [12:02] there's a very proper way to do things in an improper. And I think that investigation was [12:06] the proper way to do it. Everyone was asked in the circumstances, um, we had a game very quickly [12:13] afters. So, you know, that's for CA. I think you can maybe argue whether the judgments were fair, [12:19] but what can you do? I got asked all the questions answered more fairly. [12:24] Yeah. Good question. Um, you know, I think, you know, it might be worth talking about change rooms for a [12:39] second, because most people probably think of change rooms, like a little suburban change room, [12:45] you know, small bags on the floor, you can fit around international change rooms are very different [12:49] to that a lot of time, particularly New Orleans and Cape Town. There's actually two change rooms, [12:53] very separate. There's also a dining room off to the side. There's, um, you're like a balcony where [13:01] you watch a communal area. There's lots of different areas and you spend like a week there. So to think [13:07] that, oh, it happened in the change room and everyone must know, it's just, it's not how it [13:12] works. We spend a lot of time. There's all different, um, like nooks and crannies. So, [13:17] like in terms of that Cape Town week, for example, half are in this totally separate change room. You [13:22] don't see them unless you walk out in the field, basically. So there's probably going to be different [13:25] accounts. Some might match up, some might be different. So, you know, you might never know [13:31] every single person's stories, but I mean, what can you do? [13:36] Yeah, it's, you know, it's something I've actually been grappling with the last couple of days is, [13:54] you know, Usman's a friend. Um, but I, you know, I think the way he's kind of been quite [14:03] casual and flippant with, with people's lives in Australian cricket, I don't think that's okay. [14:07] And I don't think that's what friends do. So, so perhaps again, that's what I'm kind of thinking [14:13] through at the moment. Um, you know, I don't know why it's taken Usman so long. Um, you know, [14:21] again, it's only this way. It's a revelation to me that he, he knew what was going on, [14:27] that he was sitting next to Cam and that he, um, you know, told Cam to be careful. So [14:36] maybe he's been grappling with that for eight years. And is that a reason why he didn't come out [14:41] in the investigation at the time? Perhaps. I don't know. That's for us. [14:44] Can you say that the walk has impacted people's lives? Three players' lives were impacted and their [14:51] careers impacted by what happened in Cam to Cam. Why do you think that, I mean, [14:56] Usman says he was out there to basically tell their story about the walk in terms of [15:04] the suspensions that they've seen. Um, do you see that that was his story, that he was looking [15:11] to defend through the lives of either of his unfairly? Look, I think the intentions might be [15:19] sound. Um, you know, and if we're, if we're talking about, um, how, you know, how they were [15:27] sanctioned and the justice, I mean, my personal opinion is it was way too heavy handed. It was [15:32] way over the top. So I think that's okay to say, but to then extrapolate that out into, [15:39] you know, everyone else knew, sorry, just one second, that everyone else knew, [15:43] and then everyone else, like, that's a huge extrapolation and very different to what I [15:48] think was injustice. If we're talking, if we're talking impact, would you accept that if Cape [15:53] Town had not happened, if Steve Smith had not been one of the three of the town, that you wouldn't [15:57] be standing here today as a strange thing? I mean, it's a huge butterfly effect, isn't it? It's a long [16:03] time ago. Who knows? [16:21] Yeah, I've not spoken to Davey in, in the last week or so. Um, but you know, similarly, it's really hard. [16:28] Like this, this is affecting people's lives and like, I can't imagine what particularly those three went [16:33] through and their families. So it's really difficult. Um, but you know, I've not spoken to Davey yet. [16:39] I'm sure I will at some stage. Um, yeah. [16:42] You said last month that you had a conversation with Israel and said no worries to your story. [16:49] Yeah. What's the difference between that conversation and allegations? [16:52] Well, uh, again, it's, it's quite hard to respond to something before you know what's being said. [17:02] So, um, yeah, I think there's been some, some allegations this week that you have to respond [17:08] to. Um, so it's a little bit of a different story, different to just telling your story. [17:14] But when there's actually, you're saying real things that are quite serious, like I, I think [17:20] you have to deal with them. [17:21] Yeah, I think he was going to say, you know, tell his story. And, you know, I think he mentioned [17:34] that it didn't, it just hasn't sat well with him for a long time. Um, and I think some of [17:39] that's that, you know, three people got sanctioned and, you know, the environment at the moment [17:45] at that time. So it was, it was a winner at all costs. It was, there was an ugliness to it, [17:52] I think. Um, so, uh, you know, perhaps there's some, some guilt maybe from how the team was, [18:00] but then three people got punished for the actual act perhaps, but you know, that's for, for all of you. [18:04] So we've heard from the captain, do you think that it's enough? [18:07] Look, I hope so. Um, like it's eight and a half years. Well, we've moved on. Like I will keep [18:15] saying it, but again, these people lives, it was traumatic for some of them. Like they've had [18:20] to work through quite a bit to get out the other side. So again, that's why I'm being really [18:24] disappointed and frustrated this week is how it's been dealt with so flippantly. [18:27] Perhaps that's for CA. Um, I don't know. No, it was spoken about a little bit, um, [18:51] because it was a bit unknown what Elizabeth's story is. Again, there's different parts of the [18:56] change room. Um, it's a long time ago. He'd never spoken about it before. You know, I think a really [19:02] important part here is Elizabeth's actually never asked me or anyone else what we know. So, you know, [19:08] there's a bit of chat over in the last couple of months, but more just around the unknowns of what, [19:13] what's actually he going to say. A couple of messages. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure I will at some [19:24] stage. Yeah. Yeah. So I hadn't played a lot of cricket up until that stage. I was, I was in and [19:36] out, um, played a little bit of white ball cricket and hadn't played a lot of test cricket, but my [19:40] memories of coming back into that side was, there's parts that I didn't really think was [19:46] okay. Um, yeah, I thought that the way we acted on the field was, was quite abrasive. Um, [19:54] I didn't like some of the way we, we spoke to umpires, the opposition. Um, there's, I think [20:01] there was a bit of an arrogance and a bit of an ugliness at times that just didn't really sit [20:05] well with me as a young guy. Um, and now that I'm captain, I've spent a lot of time making sure that [20:14] that's not the case for this current Aussie team. And I'm sorry. And I think we've been absolutely [20:18] brilliant since 2018. After lunch on day two at Port Elizabeth, is there any truth or did you have [20:24] any knowledge that bench players were transporting sandpaper from the field, off the field, after the [20:31] news has been implated? No, no idea. It's news for me. [20:39] Yeah, it's, um, I don't know. I mean, it's, it's half very comical. Um, Becky wears a heart and a sleeve. [20:50] Um, and then half, I mean, it's all a bit ridiculous, isn't it? Like we're here talking [20:57] about something that was dealt with eight and a half years ago. Now I'm walking my daughter, [21:02] one year old daughter in a nappy out the front, and I've got the cameras chasing me and my family. [21:07] Like for me, that's a bit ridiculous. Um, but while we're on the topic, because I think it is funny, [21:14] we weren't talking, um, we weren't having a spat. Becky was very frustrated, animated and [21:19] really not happy with Usman. So yeah, just to, can I ask you a question to a specific [21:24] incident? You get raised in the chapter about the six year meeting between the two players [21:28] after the weekend, where one player is going to say, guys are going to be too late, [21:31] and this is moving too much and doing too much. Because that is one of the specific [21:36] development issues. Do you remember that? Look, I don't remember that, but I don't [21:40] doubt that it would happen. It's very normal. Like that's, that's a very normal thing to, [21:44] in international cricket. When you're reversing a ball, so you'll see at the start of innings, [21:48] we'll keep the ball up. We'll try and keep it hard, go, uh, swing conventionally. And then there'll [21:55] be a time where you'll see a start throwing it into the pitch. Maybe the bowl is a ball and cross [21:59] seam. These are all very normal legal methods. And then if it's going, there'll be normally a time [22:05] where someone says, I think it's gone enough. Let's try not to disrupt it. Because it's a bit of a dark [22:10] art. If you disrupt it, one wrong, you know, six that hits the wrong part of the fence, then you, [22:16] it doesn't reverse. So it might've happened. I don't recall it, but I'm, I'm not surprised [22:22] it happens all the time. [22:23] Yeah. As far as I was aware, there's no way that I'd think of that. And, and there's a natural [22:43] leap then to be like, well, I must've been something. [22:45] Yeah, absolutely. Um, you know, my first few tests coming back was in India and being left. [22:54] It's very dry. They're very, um, very abrasive. So you actually, that's why you see reversing [23:01] up to 20 overs sometimes in India. It's, you know, out here is a beautiful square. The board doesn't [23:06] get rough enough. Um, so there's, they have, I think it'd be fair to say that it's, it's less. [23:20] I think there's less shenanigans going on around world cricket, around reverse cricket, uh, reverse [23:26] wing. Um, but I think I got asked this before the tour and I said, it's a lot of it's actually [23:31] conditions based. So even in Australia, SDG might reverse. The square is normally quite abrasive, but [23:36] an Adelaide oval won't because it's always beautifully presented. [23:40] You mentioned that the allegations have been made and the impact that's happened [23:46] in the space terms being thrown around by the Australian team cheating in your mind. [23:51] Yep. Now, would you, uh, do you feel like yourself, any of the milestones that you'd consider [24:00] I mean, I did get advised this week that some of the things they've said are probably defamatory, [24:08] but I won't be doing that. Like you've got to move on. It's been, [24:12] eight years. Keep saying we're moving on. We're moving on. So you've got to draw a line at some [24:17] point. So no, I won't be doing it. [24:18] What's been the nature of you? [24:23] Um, look, you know, personal conversations. I don't really want to go into it, but, um, yeah. [24:29] Yeah. [24:30] Look, I, again, without trying to break confidence, but you know, what I can say is, [24:47] there's quite a bit to sift through there. And some parts it's, it's, it's vague. Some parts [24:53] are quite specific. So I just wanted a couple of days to actually sift through what's been said. [25:00] What's your gut feeling? [25:01] Yeah. Look, it looks like it's been sitting heavy on him for a while. It's eight and a half years ago. [25:12] Um, I get that. Um, you know, again, he, he's sitting next to Bancroft. So it sounds like he knew a [25:20] lot more than others in the change room. We, we all took part in that investigation at the time. We, [25:25] we told them everything, absolutely everything, open book. So in some ways, maybe that was for us, [25:33] part of the, the process to help get over it. And maybe this is all his chance. And, [25:38] and he never actually fully got over it at the time. [25:41] We've been very consistent from day one. So none of that's changed that we did not know [25:54] Sandpague was taken out. [25:55] Yeah, it's, it's a good question. I don't remember that specifically, but I'm like, [26:21] I'm not blowing me over surprised by that. Like it was a win at all costs mentality at that, [26:27] that time in Australian cricket. Um, there were things that I don't think, [26:33] you know, were right. And, you know, I think that's been a lot of the conversations, [26:38] not just the actual incident, but that next kind of six months and that, that rebuilding, [26:44] a lot of those things got identified. And I think we've been excellent since. [26:47] Look, uh, perhaps I, I don't remember any of those, that conversation. So it's hard to know. Um, [27:04] so yeah, I'm not sure. Um, but again, I'll go back to what I said as well. Like, [27:08] I'm also not saying that they're, they're, they're, how they were judged was fair either. [27:12] I think it was too heavy. Um, again, I think that's something I'm just grappling with the [27:33] last couple of days. Like I've, these guys, you really care about you. I've played 15 years, [27:39] my debut for New South Wales and, and with Australia was, he was right there and he was, [27:44] he's been awesome to me and he's, he's a friend. Um, but yeah, this, this is people's real lives. [27:51] And this is serious, you know, saw Becky on the news yesterday, like this affects not only people, [27:56] people's families. Um, and like I'm one of the lesser ones, maybe this week I've, I'm, I'm right [28:04] there, but talking eight years ago, like it was traumatic for those guys, um, for all of us, [28:09] for Australian cricket, for fans. So to bring it up so flippantly and casually, um, I think zero [28:16] responsible, um, so yeah, they're, they're all things I'm, I'm grappling with at the moment. [28:30] Yeah, I dunno, we'll, we'll work through it. [28:32] Another serious thing that Hussman claims that he took is that when, um, the decision was made about [28:41] to replace Steve Smith as captain, um, and that was Tim Payne, and then I guess after that was you. [28:47] Yeah, I think of all the things that I've read this week, I think that's actually the most serious. [29:06] Um, to think that, yeah, the job that I hold is quarantined from people based on their skin color. [29:14] That's a pretty big statement. I think if you're going to say that, I think you've got to have some [29:19] evidence and I just, I just don't think that's the case. So again, I agree with Uzi on a lot of [29:30] things, but when I disagree, I'll tell him that I disagree. And him saying that if you're Australian [29:37] captain, you have to be a certain skin color, I couldn't disagree, um, with, with that statement [29:44] anymore. [29:50] Yeah, I've spoken to Smithy. Um, sorry. Um, again, I, you know, without trying to break confidence, [29:59] Smithy's been very consistent. He wants to move on as well. He's dealt with this [30:03] very traumatic time for him a long time ago. He wants to move on. Um, so, you know, [30:09] maybe that's one positive that if, if standing up today and talking about it, uh, answering all [30:15] your questions, that helps these guys move on properly. Finally, maybe that is a good thing [30:20] and a good outcome from this book. But, um, Steve at the time, I think he said, you know, [30:25] it was, uh, I was captain. I turned a blind eye. I walked past it. And that's exactly what he's, [30:31] you know, conveyed to me as well. He's, uh, he's owned up to it. And like, [30:36] um, I think it's a sign of the man that Steve is. [30:38] Uh, effectively being a can-standard Australian, is your leadership in any question now in the [30:47] seconds to you? [30:48] No. [30:49] How hard was it today? Can I ask you a little bit about it? [30:53] How hard was it today to front up after what's been said over the last 10 days? [30:59] Yeah, it's, it was hard. Um, the first few days I was, I was quite relaxed. The last couple of days, [31:06] you know, it's, it's been a lot on, um, a lot said. So, look, I, you know, I really care so much [31:13] about Australian cricket. And, um, you know, there's a bit of detail here to sift through [31:18] that. And perhaps we should have given a bit more colour a long time ago around reverse wing, [31:24] around sandpaper, um, around there not being some grand plan. It just kind of can happen. [31:32] So it's been tough, but I think it's, yeah, it's important, as I said. [31:36] So read the white, what you forgot to put the garbage bins out? [31:39] Yeah, that's it. Yeah. Yeah. It was cardboard week. [31:41] Can we just speak to this? You say, listening to Archer has been casual and flippant at times. [31:47] Yeah. It's a 300-page book or so. Why do you think, if it doesn't seem flippant, [31:52] I think, for long reading, it seems to be ridiculous in the contemporaneous states, [31:57] why do you come to the conclusion that he's been flippant and casual about this? [32:02] Well, I don't think it was, could be, like, he's not naive. I know it was, and he knew this was going [32:07] to be a hot topic. So to have statements such as, we all knew, well, we all knew about what? [32:13] For me, that's very casual. And that's what part of the last four or five days has been. [32:18] Some very different conclusions have been drawn from what actually happened, [32:22] based on some, a casual sentence. [32:24] Can you tell me that you don't know what it's going to happen and something impressive, [32:29] obviously? Yeah. [32:30] I respect everyone's right to tell their story. Like, 100%, go for it. It's, you know, [32:43] I'm glad people feel like they can. It's their story to tell. But I hope this is put a line under, [32:51] because we've been very consistent. We dealt with this at the time. We went through the proper [32:55] method. We told everyone in the investigation everything we knew. We've had to defend ourselves [33:02] in 2021, have to defend ourselves now. So if we have to do this every time another book or [33:06] idea comes out, like, it's pretty ridiculous. So I'm sure there will be a book. I'm sure someone [33:12] else will talk about it. So there we go. [33:14] That's two parts. [33:15] In 2018 aside, there's some pretty weird to see in that club conversation. [33:19] Yeah. [33:21] Yeah, to be honest, that's another one. I'm not sure my comfort level's on at the moment. [33:32] Like, I'm definitely not going home after each day's play, writing notes on my teammates and [33:38] what's happened in the change room to then releasing a book one day. I don't know. I don't know about that one. [33:47] Sorry. Do you mean like now or at the time? I don't think there's a natural one now. [34:08] Um, I'd say, I'd say it was quite siloed over there. Like you, back in that day, bowls, you were, [34:15] your job's to bowl. So here's the plan. Here's your fields. Um, batters, here's how you're going to bat. [34:21] Like it was, it probably wasn't as collaborative and, and I quite like being collaborative and everyone [34:26] being across everything. That's more the case nowadays. Um, there's definitely not a divide now. I think back then, [34:32] I, I don't believe there was. Um, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I wish if that's really how he felt, [34:48] I wish he brought it up. Um, and you know, actually it's one point I wouldn't mind just [34:53] elaborating on. Like I can see how people draw the assumption that, well, the bowlers are [35:01] bowling. You're doing it for the bowlers. The bowlers must be, come up with the ideas. [35:05] It's actually not how it works. Like 99% of the time, it's that is that managing a ball. It's just, [35:11] it's just what you do in cricket. Like reverse swing, for example, as soon as the ball gets wet, [35:16] it won't reverse. So all us bowlers are bowling, running around. You get sweaty. You don't touch [35:20] the ball. You actually see keeper throws it a first slip, throws it all the way to mid on. [35:25] You're trying to get least amount of hands, particularly sweaty hands on. It's a lot of time [35:29] that falls on a batter. So I can see why people obviously think, oh, the bowlers bowl with it. [35:34] They must manage the ball because it's just not the case. But I think it's a challenge to keep [35:53] this dressing room united. I think everyone's very united. Um, I think it's frustrating in [35:59] there's so much to be excited about for cricket and what's upcoming. I mean, it's a very important [36:05] shield round out here that everyone's facing this way rather than facing that way. So it's such a big [36:12] year. Um, you know, the first ODI starts today, even for some of us guys, this is the last tiny [36:19] little window before we go on the road for the next 12 months straight, pretty much. So I couldn't [36:24] get the bins right this week. I probably won't get another chance for 12 months. Um, so it is annoying. [36:30] Um, and it's been frustrating and it's been a distraction in a, in a world where we know [36:35] we're going to be quite busy. We're going to need a lot of bandwidth. [36:38] You mentioned Paul, even though the matters work on you guys on top of the run here. [36:44] Yep. [36:44] You look at it because it's a very important piece. [36:49] Totally. [36:49] If you're right to the run. [36:50] Yep. [36:51] Did you at any stage in South Africa look at that normal thing? That's unusual. [36:58] Not, no, not at the time. Um, there'd been previous times, which I thought was, was normal, [37:06] which I'm starting to think it's less normal now because I haven't seen it in a long time, where [37:09] maybe the quarter seems a little bit higher than it should be. You know, maybe someone's just [37:14] tried to lift it up a tiny bit with a finger. I've not seen that in, since then. But at the time, [37:19] coming back into the team after not much cricket, I was, I thought that was very normal. [37:23] Does one mention, does one mention swirls on the ball? [37:29] No. [37:29] In which case, was Cameron Bancroft actually quite poor in the task of rocking that ball? [37:34] I don't know. I mean, the umpires looked at it and couldn't see any wrong, so. [37:40] But the umpires think it. [37:45] Yeah. So, but what do you want me to say? [37:49] Oh, I'm just, uh, I just find it a different correlation. Um, [37:54] with Cameron Bancroft, it's doing a good job of all the balls. [37:58] Yeah, you'd think so. Yeah, but we didn't see any. [38:02] Yeah, I heard that. Um, no, uh, I definitely didn't know anything at the time. Um, it was more [38:19] when I was young, coming back into the team, I, like, I just hadn't played much red ball cricket. [38:25] I'd never seen reverse swinging white ball cricket. Well, not from the Australian side. [38:28] I'd seen it from some, some oppositions. Um, and we could talk about apparently some of the [38:33] other dark ass that happened, if you want. But, um, no, it wasn't until after the fact where I'd [38:41] heard people say, oh, you know, that is actually, you know, you used to push the boundaries a little [38:45] bit at times. And I was like, okay, it's news to me. Again, it's, it was a really hard time. [39:04] Remember how hot that topic was. But, you know, who are we to stand up to, like, we've done the [39:12] investigation. We've, we've given everything we've known. We don't know what everyone else has known as [39:18] well. So we've given our account, full account, total transparency. And then with that information, [39:24] you know, the, the, the handings or the sanctions have been handed down. So I didn't really feel [39:30] like it's my place to then go and question. No, everyone got this wrong. You got to do this, [39:35] this, like, that's just not my place. I wouldn't do that. [39:37] How many calls this week for the investigation plea reopened? Did Todd Green ask you for your opinion or not? [39:47] No, he just said to me, and again, I don't like break conferences, but I'm sure he won't mind me [39:54] saying. He's obviously knew the book was going to come out. He revisited all the transcripts. [40:01] They've been very consistent, and none of it warrants reopening it. So that's all he's told me. [40:07] So it's a one-way conversation. Totally. Yeah. [40:11] Yeah. The, the genuine answer, and I, this might be a cop-out is I can't remember, but I've, I've [40:25] spoken to a couple of guys who were investigated in the last couple of days to try and get a bit [40:28] more colour. And they said it was New Orleans, but then also broader. And it was broader. And it was, [40:37] um, you know, some questions about the team and the culture, um, and also perhaps, um, yeah, [40:48] just, just a bit of colour, but it wasn't isolated only to that day. [40:51] You said your wife was pretty filth. What advice did you give? [40:56] Um, she's always just be honest and tell the details, um, and put your washing away. Um, [41:06] so no, she was just, she's, she's, I've been with Becky since well before that tour. So she's seen [41:13] everything. She's lives it all with me. Um, so she's just saying, like, show your emotion, [41:21] because it, there are a lot of people here who are hurting. [41:28] Yep. I'd rather not go into specifics, um, because I haven't played that many shield games. So [41:41] if I get too isolated, then you can probably will it down. But it was, it was dealt with at the time. [41:44] Um, I hadn't played a lot of shield games or red ball cricket. And I just remember thinking, [41:49] whoa, is this what happens? That's, that's, uh, I'm not sure. Like I know that's crossed the line. [41:54] That's not okay. And yeah, the umpires dealt with it very quickly. [41:59] No, I don't believe so. [42:00] Uh, I mean, all I can say is I, I 100% did not know if anything was taken out of the field, [42:24] you know, ever really, other than that one instance in a shield game. So I don't know. I, [42:28] I, this is my first home summer. All the time we spoke about reverse swing was all above board. [42:35] I was talking about hitting the rough, throwing the ball in, letting it go, not shine it, like [42:40] those kinds of things. So can I stand here and say, absolutely. It didn't happen. No, I can't. [42:46] But I wasn't aware of any of it. Can we speak to this allegation of racism? [42:50] Uh, or I suppose this idea that race played a role in a captaincy decision before the interim [42:54] captaincy was in Elijah. And I just ask to this idea, have you in your time ever seen [43:00] in or on the Australian team, the behaviour you described as racist? [43:06] Um, look, I, I'd, I'd rather not go into that. I think that's maybe a story for Uzi. Um, [43:13] but, uh, you know, nothing since I've been captain that I can think of. [43:19] It's a good question though, about, because that's what's in the book. And that's, [43:23] I know you weren't captain, but if you were, you answered some of those words, [43:26] as he was. Um, I appreciate maybe not going to the extent of their time. [43:30] I think this might be showing you. Um, again, I think some of them, you know, [43:40] some of the language, I think we've all evolved a little bit. Like there might have been times where [43:45] the, the person felt like they might have been, um, you know, prejudiced against or, [43:52] or it didn't make them feel good. But again, that's what was the, uh, there's nothing very, [43:57] very racist that I've seen in the past. And it's definitely nothing that I've seen in the last [44:00] eight years. [44:00] Can I ask you a specific allegation? Sorry. Just a few people, Elizabeth, there's this passage [44:05] in the book that talks to this idea of in the change room, uh, one player began using sandpaper [44:10] on the board that had been thrown around and everyone was laughing at it. Basically, [44:13] there was no way it couldn't reverse. Yeah. [44:16] It says everyone. Yeah. [44:17] Were you one of those people? Did you, what's your recollection of this incident at all? [44:22] So I don't have a recollection exactly of that, but I don't, I'm not saying it never happened [44:26] because it's actually, again, quite a normal thing to happen. We carry sandpaper. Normally [44:31] for the batters, they, they rough up their bats, but we actually use it for balls as well around [44:35] training. So reverse, you face a lot of reverse swing. So the batters want to face it and practice [44:41] in the net. So we've scratched balls on concrete. Um, I've seen someone use a Stanley knife. I've seen [44:48] sandpaper used. So all these methods are very normal around training. So again, I think it [44:54] comes back to, there must've been a grand plan because for the non cricket, maybe the non [44:59] international, you know, play it, it sounds absurd and it is absurd to take sandpaper out on the field, [45:04] but like trying to give a bit more context that it is part of a change room. Yes, we already may [45:10] have been doing it around training. So there's a leap to then think it's okay to take it on the field, [45:15] but it's maybe not a, perhaps as big a leap as some people may think. Look, potentially, and maybe [45:30] he's saying ball tampering in general, because, you know, it was a bit more prevalent back then. [45:36] Um, well, it hasn't been prevalent since I've, since that moment, certainly in our team, but, um, [45:42] there's conversations around how do you get the ball reversing? Now, where they're acting on, I'm saying [45:48] I did not know at all, but yeah. Yeah, that sounds like a pretty good question for those two. Um, [46:13] again, there's quite a few different accounts here. So they've got two accounts. As you said, [46:18] there's 11 players in that room. So that means there's nine other guys who I think it's appropriate [46:22] you give an equal amount of weight into their story as well. [46:26] There was reports just from the last testimony about, uh, the tension around Steve Smith. [46:32] I mean, it's coming out last week as a current player of the team, someone who was suspended, [46:40] you know, what have your conversations been with him around, is everyone on the same page, [46:47] as to why you missed that last test, and is there, you know, a commitment from everyone, [46:51] you know, going forward that he's a key part of the team? [46:55] Yeah, totally. I've spoken to Steve a few times since. Um, he's good. He's saying his next feeling [47:00] better. I think he gets into Australia very soon. Um, and I think he'll, he's due to play a shield [47:06] game soon. Um, so no, no, we're, we're in a really good place. Um, you know, I think there was [47:11] some commentary, unfair commentary around Steve in that last week. Um, perhaps I could have done a [47:17] better job of, um, trying to, to soften that a bit. Um, yeah, I think probably got a little bit [47:24] misconstrued how, you know, there definitely was a level of disappointment in such a big game that [47:29] we were missing one of our great players. Um, but no, it was very aligned going ahead. Um, [47:35] very excited. He's very excited for the next 12 months. Um, we'll need him. I'll need him as [47:40] captain alongside me as vice captain. So, um, all very aligned. [47:44] Yeah, look, it's a, um, again, I don't know all the ins and outs of the investigation. Um, [48:14] you know, I think it's fair to say, you know, not only the ball tampering, [48:18] but the way we were conducting ourselves needed a change. Um, I think that was found out in, [48:24] in some of those reviews as well, the formal reviews afterwards. So, uh, you know, I think, [48:30] um, yeah, you know, Booth stepped down. Um, I really enjoyed my time with Booth as cap, [48:35] as coach. I learned a lot under him. Um, but yeah, in terms of actually apportioning [48:39] responsibility, like that, that's something for CA. [48:47] And I'll come back here, then he'll come back and then I'll come back. [48:49] I doubt it. I'd highly doubt it. Yeah, it's not really. [48:58] Just in regards to Cricket Australia investigation, Pat, um, were there any questions by the [49:04] investigators about discussions that took place during our team bowler meetings prior to Cape Town, [49:10] or was the investigation solely focused on when sandpaper was used and made down the cameras? [49:16] Again, I don't really recall the questions. Um, but trying to piece together now, there was, [49:24] the questions are wider than just, was sandpaper out in the field? And did you know about it? [49:30] It was wider than that. [49:30] During Cape Town? [49:31] Yeah. As far as I'm aware, but that's hearsay. I guess, like, I'm not saying that's definite coming [49:38] from me. Can I just ask as well, I mean, what's your take or what's your personal opinion on the [49:44] punishments that were handed out to Smithy Order and Bancroft? I mean, do you think in light of [49:49] what we know about balls and tampering worldwide and other international teams, I mean, do you think [49:54] the punishments were excessive? I do. Um, you know, and again, I think the times were very different [50:00] back then. This is a long time ago. Um, it was also in the middle of a, a chaotic series. Like, [50:06] I think it was, there's a lot of, like, lawless, lawlessness about what was going on in that, [50:13] like, series around the staircase, like, sanctions for dropping a ball, [50:19] Rabada, that then got over, like, there was, it was just a crazy series. I'm very glad we haven't [50:24] seen a series like that since. Um, and it was also quite prevalent. Like, we're talking, [50:31] you hear stories of other teams doing it. Um, and when there were instances of people getting caught, [50:38] it was a slap on the wrist. Like, it was a small fine, demerit points, whatever. So, [50:45] like, I think the whole scale got a little bit lost. And yeah, it's my personal opinion, [50:52] but I think, like, their bands were way over the top. Sorry, I'll just go here. [51:01] Look, I don't think any of this makes any of it right. Like, it's, it's just the way it was. Again, [51:15] I think we're, we're much better for actually going through this process. And like, I think [51:20] the sport's better for it. Um, so, look, I think times did change after that test for all teams. [51:29] Um, yeah. I mean, that's what the ICC are there for. So, when the ICC does need to step in, [51:45] it did. This was obviously a national body kind of ruling on top of the ICC, which perhaps other [51:51] governing bodies hadn't done. So, it was very unprecedented, I'd say. [51:56] Um, look, perhaps a lot of what he's talking about there was actually before I was certainly [52:22] in the Australian team and certainly before I was Australian captain, but I actually wasn't, [52:26] I was injured a lot of this time. So, I played three or four shield games in six years, played [52:32] almost no white ball cricket for New South Wales, and it doesn't really happen in white ball cricket. [52:36] So, um, you know, perhaps, perhaps there was, I think, an ugliness at times around, [52:43] like, yeah, state cricket. I mean, even just, this is my personal thoughts, but like in grey [52:50] cricket, the abuse that you give an opponent, that's just quite normalised back then. I, [52:53] I didn't really like that. And I think that's gone out of it, of the game a lot in the last, um, [52:58] eight years. I think we're all quite professional, so we'll do what we need to do. Um, I'll be fine. [53:15] I, I, you know, I can't, don't want to speak on behalf of others, but, um, it's never been an [53:20] issue before whenever there's some small grievances. [53:25] I always support was with what he's said, if I agree with it. Um, I think he's a really [53:47] important player, has been a really important figure in Australia and Australian cricket, [53:52] but Australia. Um, and, you know, I've said this a lot of time, like, I think it's awesome that he [53:58] feels comfortable to share some of these strong views. Um, I think that's great. I think it has [54:02] opened the door for a lot of other people coming through of maybe a similar background, um, or a [54:08] marginalised group to, to feel like they can speak openly. But if he's saying something that's not true [54:14] or totally out of line, I'm also happy to say that's not right. [54:24] Uh, what, what kind of divides do you mean? Sorry? [54:27] Well, just to see there'd be room to see if the young players would be looking up to heroes and to see [54:38] the young players. Um, yeah, I think this is a hard thing to talk about because a lot of [54:47] like what we're referring to is eight and a half years ago. It was dealt with. I think the world's [54:51] a much better place for, for going through that. I think it's, it's in a much better spot, you know, [54:58] the last, whatever, eight years, but, you know, particularly since I've been captain, I, you know, [55:02] as he's said to me a few times, how much he's enjoyed being part of the team. Like that means [55:06] more to me than any win. Like that's, you know, I can finish my captaincy and have my players say [55:13] that they felt like they could beat themselves in the change. And for me, that's, it doesn't get [55:16] any better than that. [55:33] Hard to know, really hard to know. I think that's, it's a really good question, but I think it's [55:42] that would take me a time. Yeah, why not? Let's get into it. Um, I'd heard super glue on like [55:52] brandings. So you shining the ball there. I'd heard zippers. I'd heard super glue on gloves, [55:59] keeper's gloves. So you catch it. Um, I'd heard nail polish, layers and layers of nail polish. [56:06] I bite my fingers. So it'd be terrible, but growing it out, make it super hard and using that. [56:11] Um, I'd heard obviously the Murray mints is one. Um, I'd, I'd heard some claims from a long time ago [56:21] that, um, sandpaper was actually taped in between fingers and you leave a little patch. That was a [56:29] long time ago. So these are all discussions that I'm sure every suburban change room have as well. [56:35] Like we're having them in the Australian cricket team, but I think it's, that's one thing to talk [56:39] about it, but then it's also another thing to, to go ahead and, and do it. Um, and again, [56:44] all those methods that I just point out, I'd say I've never seen the Australian cricket team, [56:48] um, other than a bottle cap once. [56:51] The way sandpaper is kind of so encouraged to you, you tend to, the way sandpaper is approached. [57:08] Yeah. And again, there's a lot of nuance here, and I think it's important to talk through, [57:11] but the details really matter because I can totally understand if, if you're right here and you've got a [57:17] passing interest in cricket and you wake up and see the sandpaper that's been taken on the field, [57:22] I can see why that is jarring. Like it's jarring even if you know cricket, but particularly if you [57:27] don't know why is there sandpaper in the change room? How do you actually manage your ball? What [57:32] is normal? What are other teams doing? What do umpires think of this? And like, there's a huge [57:38] spectrum here of what's right and wrong, but like, there's a lot of nuance here. Like, you know, [57:43] you're allowed to shine a ball, you're allowed to apply saliva, you're not anymore, but you were, [57:49] but you can't apply too much, you can't load it up. You know, you're allowed to rougher the ball, [57:54] you're allowed to let it go, you're allowed to throw it into the ground, but you're not allowed [57:56] to let it bounce twice, you're not allowed to get it too wrecked. So there's a lot of nuance here. So [58:00] then if you just take each extreme, I'll shine it with a bit of saliva, okay, maybe I've got a bit [58:06] of sugar in my mouth as I, like, you can see how it's just, the boundaries get pushed a little bit. [58:12] But in saying that, when you see sandpaper on the, on the screen, you go, that's definitely cross the line. [58:20] Um, sorry, what was the Steve part? I've not heard that before. [58:42] Yeah, so I've not heard that before. Um, yeah, in terms of if it was the right time back then, like, [58:47] perhaps, um, would have changed anything, I don't know. Um, but you know, perhaps if he, if he spoke to the investigators at the time, [58:53] maybe there would have been different outcomes, but I honestly don't know. [58:57] Sorry, we've reached the, we've reached the one hour marks. I think that's drinks. [59:00] One hour. [59:01] On the first day. Um, so just a few more, please. [59:04] Are you sure? Yeah. [59:05] Just go and have a bowl. [59:06] I mean, I need a bowl. [59:06] He's been here all day. [59:07] I don't mind, yeah. [59:09] But just make sure, like, yeah, every question. [59:11] I've said it, I'll answer every question, because this will just keep popping up if not. [59:15] So please, any nuanced question about cricket, change rooms, ball maintenance, whatever, [59:20] I'm here to answer it today, and I'm done. I won't speak about it again. [59:24] What do you say to Australian cricket fans? How do you believe they weren't told the whole truth [59:29] eight years ago? [59:31] Um, like, really good question. Um, I think just because things weren't made public doesn't mean [59:38] that they weren't known by, say, Cricket Australia or investigators. And, you know, [59:42] hopefully today I've given a bit more colour to a lot of the, you know, some of the stories around [59:47] how this might happen. It's really hard to articulate. It's really hard to, to talk about it. [59:52] Um, even now, but particularly close to the event. Like, these are tough topics that a lot of people [59:57] don't want to talk about. So, you know, I think you've got to trust that with the proper process, [1:00:04] a lot of this context, that is really important. It was known to Cricket Australia and the [1:00:09] investigators. Um, it's known to the ICC when they hand down their, their sanctions. But for 95% of even [1:00:17] cricket lovers, they might not know a lot of the context, which I think is super, super important when [1:00:22] it comes to, like, conversations around this. So, maybe, maybe we should have done a better job of, [1:00:28] of explaining a lot of this, um, over the years. Um, you know, perhaps the public does deserve it. [1:00:34] Like, you know, we are Australian property. Um, but it's a really difficult one. And again, [1:00:40] we're dealing with people's lives. So, it's really important you do it the proper way. [1:00:44] I haven't spoken to Cam this week. Um, to this second statement, [1:01:11] like, absolutely not. Like, I really like Cam. Um, he's my age group. I've played some underage [1:01:16] cricket with Cam. So, absolutely no issue. Um, and of course, I'm not a selector, but from my [1:01:21] point of view, absolutely no issue with Cam at all. [1:01:23] Yeah. It's his biggest gripe that he wasn't considered a bowler. Um, he said that's the [1:01:44] biggest travesty of it all. No, um, he, I don't think his name was really called into question. [1:01:51] So, with Cam's statement, um, you know, what got drawn out of that was a lot of media then [1:01:59] pointed the finger at four of us. So, like, I thought it was important that us four spoke, [1:02:04] but didn't really feel like Mitch needed to speak. In hindsight, would you do the same thing again? [1:02:09] Or would you let it go through to the people and not make a statement that put the flames to issue? [1:02:16] It's a really good question. Um, again, there wasn't a lot of info out there. So, [1:02:21] you know, we're quite specific in saying we did not know sandpaper was out in the field. Um, [1:02:27] and we've been very consistent in that. You know, perhaps we could have given a bit more [1:02:30] colour around how do I have a sandpaper and change room? What, how do you talk about bull maintenance? [1:02:36] You know, perhaps we could have, and maybe given a bit more context around that. [1:02:39] But, you know, I think overall, um, like, we did it. We, we, we wrote the statement. Um, [1:02:47] it's very consistent to what we told in Cape Towns and investigators, very consistent to what I'm [1:02:51] saying now. So, no, I don't think I'd regret it. No. [1:02:55] But did your own reputation, um, to a certain extent, extend this issue to here we are making [1:03:02] this way to still talking about it? [1:03:05] Look, perhaps, but again, it was, it was a time where not much had been said about it. So, [1:03:11] again, I didn't think it was in Australian cricket's interest to go into too much depth. [1:03:15] And that's part of the reason why we didn't want to speak too much. I was an Australian captain in [1:03:19] 2021 when, when that statement came out. Um, a lot of people had moved on. It didn't really feel [1:03:26] fair to jump in the middle and bring it all up again. [1:03:30] What was the investigation? So, it wasn't said he wasn't interviewed. Was it a volunteer to be interviewed? [1:03:36] Uh, I don't know why he wasn't asked. I, I, you know, again, you'd have to ask Cricket Australia. [1:03:42] I'd assume they, it was a pretty tight turnaround. Um, you know, there was a test match a couple [1:03:49] days later. They were trying to work out whether they needed to fly over. So, no players, one player, [1:03:53] 11 players. So, like, they wanted to act pretty quickly. Um, but I definitely, you know, [1:03:58] I got asked to come and be interviewed. So, I said, no worries. Um, but I, I do also remember [1:04:04] them saying, if anyone else wants to come forward and give information, you're more than welcome [1:04:08] to, and we would encourage that. Just following on from that part, with the investigation, um, [1:04:12] as we were talking about before, if the team meetings right in Cape Town that we're talking [1:04:17] about with the worst swing in Central were included in the Cricket Australia investigation, do you still [1:04:23] believe that investigation is thorough? Um, again, I, it's a hypothetical because I actually don't [1:04:30] know what was asked and sorry, that's truthful. I, I just can't remember. So, um, that, that might [1:04:36] be a question for Cricket Australia. Um, I think much better for it, for, for it being eradicated, [1:04:49] not out. Um, yeah, I, I don't think it's, I don't think it's fair. Like, it's, it's, you, you are [1:04:57] crossing a line. There are rules. There are things that you're allowed to do and not allowed to do. [1:05:01] And there was many things that were, were shady. And, um, so I think it's much better now that a lot [1:05:08] of that shadyness is gone. I don't think so. Um, and hopefully today we put a line through it and [1:05:22] we're done and we can all move on to much fun, more fun topics like actual cricket starting this [1:05:28] afternoon over in Perth or shield around happening out there. So, um, I, I don't suspect, I think this, [1:05:33] this will, we'll all move on from this pretty quickly. Great. Anyone from Guinness here? [1:05:51] Yep. [1:05:55] Really exciting. Um, I haven't actually seen a lot of Marley, um, caught up with him quite a few [1:06:08] times when we were over in Perth, but unfortunately it's normally when he's been injured. Um, so he's, [1:06:13] you know, the start of his career is somewhat similar to, to how mine has been at times. Yeah, [1:06:18] I think he's been on a couple of Aussie, Aussie tours before, but, um, really exciting prospect. [1:06:23] I've seen a bit of, you know, footage of even the last week or so, um, of some of his games and, [1:06:28] um, he's fast. Um, looks like he's really skillful. He's fit. Um, got a lot of great attributes, [1:06:34] so quite an exciting talent. [1:06:36] I've, I've read bits. Um, yeah, kind of scanned through and obviously seen quite a bit of [1:06:44] quotes. Um, read it. I'm not sure. Maybe he sends me a free copy. [1:06:47] I don't know how severe you would have known when you would be known that how severe that [1:07:02] won't be, you know, do you think there might have been more of any permission from the team [1:07:07] to consider some of the role of joint responsibility based on the cultural importance of it? [1:07:16] Yeah, look, it's a, it's a good question. Um, I don't think any of us knew what, like, [1:07:23] it's a very unprecedented event and it blew up bigger than I've seen anything in crickets in my [1:07:28] time. So I think at that moment you're looking for direction and at that moment it was Cricket [1:07:33] Australia was going to give direction. So it's none of us knew, like, remember sitting around going, [1:07:39] what happens here? It's like, well, I don't know. We've never done this before. So it's hard. Um, [1:07:44] in, in terms of responsibility, I mean, for, for the actual sandpaper event, [1:07:50] it's hard to take responsibility for something you haven't done. But in terms of the team culture, [1:07:57] um, like, I think it was dealt with in some ways in the, in the reviews after and what the [1:08:03] expectations, how they changed after that of how, how the public wanted us to play. [1:08:18] I think it's fair to say people are pretty nervous using sandpaper on the balls now. Um, [1:08:23] I understandably so, but I mean, it's still sandpaper in the change room because boys are fixing [1:08:27] their bats like there's super glue in the change room. That's trying to fix your bats. So, um, [1:08:32] around training, we just scuff it on the side of the nets. There's normally a bit of concrete. [1:08:37] That's normally enough to get it going. All right. Can we, uh, any more? Thanks. Sure. [1:08:44] Thank you. Okay. Enjoy your day at the shield. Thank you.