The Cross Examination That Should Have Saved Donna Adelson

[00:00:00] Speaker ?: *Clears* [00:00:30] Speaker 1: I'm on a trip over that. I try to approach you, so I'm trying to get in front of you. Good morning. Good morning. I've been testifying for quite some time. [00:00:47] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [00:00:48] Speaker 1: I've listened to a lot of phone calls. [00:00:50] Speaker 2: We have. [00:00:51] Speaker 1: Now it's cross-examination, so on behalf of Mrs. Adelson, I need to talk to you about those things. Yes, ma'am. We may replay all of them. I'm kidding, I'm not going to do that. Thank you. I wouldn't do that to anybody in this room. But I do have some questions. I can't remember if you testified to it on direct or not, but you're the lead investigator in this case, correct? [00:01:16] Speaker 2: For the Federal Bureau of Investigation, I am. Thank you. [00:01:19] Speaker 1: And I don't think you said exactly, I remember you said you got involved early on. What does early on mean with respect to the date that Dan Markell was killed? [00:01:31] Speaker 2: I believe the homicide occurred on a Friday. I was called on Monday, that following Monday, so the 18th, 19th, 20th, around the 21st. [00:01:41] Speaker 1: Thank you. And when you became involved, who kind of updated you with, here's what we got, and to discuss with you your input of where it should go? [00:01:56] Speaker 2: I got the initial call from investigator Scott Cherry. He initially called me and asked me to assist with some leads, basically, outside the state of Florida, basically, and outside of Tallahassee. [00:02:11] Speaker 1: You're obviously here testifying for the state. Yes, ma'am. So I'm not sure we're going to agree on everything. Is that fair? But I think you could agree with me that my client, Donna Adelson, when she has something on her mind, I mean, you've reviewed the materials, right? The emails, and you listen to the phone calls, and text messages, et cetera? [00:02:36] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [00:02:37] Speaker 1: If she's got something to say, something on her mind, she writes about it, and she writes a lot about it. Is that fair to say? [00:02:44] Speaker 2: Sometimes, yes. Yes. On certain matters, yes. Okay. [00:02:48] Speaker 1: And kind of the opposite of that, her son, Charlie Adelson, when he's got something on his mind, he can't shut up, can he? [00:02:56] Speaker 2: That's correct. [00:02:57] Speaker 1: I mean, he sometimes goes on forever, and in these phone calls, you can actually hear his mother, Donna, just going, yeah, yeah, yeah, and then finally, when she can, she changes the subject, right? That's correct. And from all of the phone records that you have reviewed, not just for this time period, they talk on the phone a lot, don't they? They do. Okay. And when they talk, sometimes they talk for a long time, right? [00:03:25] Speaker 2: That's correct. [00:03:26] Speaker 1: Would you agree with me that sometimes, if you don't hear an entire conversation, and you just hear a little part of it, you might not be able to put that into context with what the discussion is? Is that fair? [00:03:43] Speaker 2: That's sometimes fair, yes. Okay. [00:03:46] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:03:47] Speaker 1: You said that there were leads that you were going to follow up with respect to folks who are outside of the state of Florida, right? [00:03:56] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am, among other leads. [00:03:58] Speaker 1: Okay. And I don't want to put words in your mouth, but were those witnesses or those suspects? Some of both. [00:04:05] Speaker 2: Okay. We were also trying to track down the green Prius. So there were quite literally thousands of green Priuses throughout the state and the country that were potential suspect vehicles. [00:04:17] Speaker 1: Okay. So you followed up on leads of where green Priuses were outside the state of Florida? Is that fair to say? [00:04:23] Speaker 2: Yeah. Outside and inside. Okay. Okay. [00:04:27] Speaker 1: All right. Let's see here. Just some notes about some of the calls. Would you agree that there were several times in those calls where people were talking about traffic, how heavy the traffic was in one location or another? I think Katie does it some and Charlie does it some. Do you recall that? [00:04:47] Speaker 2: Talking about traffic in South Florida? Yes. [00:04:50] Speaker ?: Yes, ma'am. Okay. And during those calls at the point that Charlie Adel said, "I'm going to go to the police department." I'm going to go to the police department. I'm going to go to the police department. I'm going to go to the police department. I'm going to go to the police department. I'm going to go to the police department. I'm going to go to the police department. I'm going to go to the police department. I'm going to go to the police department. I'm going to go to the police department. [00:05:06] Speaker 1: I'm going to go to the police department. I'm going to go to the police department. I'm going to go to the police department. I'm going to go to the police department. I'm going to go to the police department. I'm going to go to the police department. I'm going to go to the police department. I'm going to go to the police department. [00:05:14] Speaker 2: I'm going to go to the police department. [00:05:15] Speaker 1: I'm going to go to the police department. I'm going to go to the police department. I'm going to go to the police department. I'm going to go to the police department. I'm going to go to the police department. I'm going to go to the police department. I'm going to go to the police department. I'm going to go to the police department. I'm going to go to the police department. I'm going to go to the police department. I'm going to go to the police department. I'm going to go to the police department. I'm going to go to the police department. I'm going to go to the police department. I'm going to go to the police department. I'm going to go to the police department. I'm going to go to the police department. I'm going to go to the police department. [00:05:33] Speaker ?: I'm going to go to the police department. [00:05:34] Speaker 2: I'm going to go to the police department. I'm going to go to the police department. [00:05:36] Speaker 1: I'm going to go to the police department. I'm going to go to the police department. I'm going to go to the police department. I'm going to go to the police department. I'm going to go to the police department. I'm going to go to the police department. I'm going to go to the police department. I'm going to go to the police department. I'm going to go to the police department. I'm going to go to the police department. [00:05:46] Speaker ?: I'm going to go to the police department. I'm going to go to the police department. [00:05:49] Speaker 2: I'm going to go to the police department. I'm going to go to the police department. I'm going to go to the police department. I'm going to go to the police department. I'm going to go to the police department. I'm going to go to the police department. I'm going to go to the police department. I'm going to go to the police department. I'm going to go to the police department. [00:05:58] Speaker 1: I'm going to go to the police department. I'm going to go to the police department. I'm going to go to the police department. I'm going to go to the police department. I'm going to go to the police department. I'm going to go to the police department. I'm going to go to the police department. I'm going to go to the police department. [00:06:06] Speaker ?: I'm going to go to the police department. [00:06:07] Speaker 2: I don't think he was. My opinion. That's what you're asking me. My opinion is. I don't think he was angry at her. I think he was upset with the situation. Right. He was showing that. Yes. He was being. Yeah. He was showing that he was not happy. Okay. [00:06:24] Speaker 1: Correct. All right. So maybe his anger isn't at her, but he's wanting her to do something that's not been done. So he keeps on about it. [00:06:30] Speaker 2: Right? Yes. He's very anxious. [00:06:33] Speaker 1: Yes. I would agree with that. And in some of the calls with her, about whether this is somebody related to the people who have committed the killing. Maybe it's the police, but, but he's, he's letting her know that he's concerned that this might be somebody who's involved some way. [00:06:48] Speaker 2: Right? [00:06:49] Speaker 1: I agree. When they're talking about the, the brother in Broward County, uh, Katie, you can tell in those calls, she knows Lewis Rivera has been incarcerated in Broward County, and now she's getting concerned. Right? [00:07:01] Speaker 2: Right. She's concerned. I wasn't so sure he was catching on to that part of it. Yeah. [00:07:06] Speaker 1: Not that it was Lewis Rivera, but. Right. But he was concerned about it. And then she became concerned about it. [00:07:11] Speaker 2: That's correct. [00:07:12] Speaker 1: And his discussions about being worried about it. Those were with Katie, correct? That's correct. When he talks to his mother, he's always reassuring her, everything's fine. Sometimes it's 99% sure, a hundred percent sure, a thousand percent sure. he's got all these percentages, but he's telling his mother, there's nothing to worry about. Nobody's coming after you. You're okay. [00:07:31] Speaker ?: That's correct. [00:07:31] Speaker 2: Okay. All right. [00:07:33] Speaker ?: So this investigation was pretty lengthy. Fair to say? That's fair to say. All right. And you were involved in the investigation, I guess would be the Monday after the homicide through Mrs. Adelson's arrest, correct? [00:07:52] Speaker 1: Going through today. Yes, ma'am. Okay. We want to talk about the period from when Danny Markell was killed. I should say we want to talk about, my questions are going to relate to from the date that Danny Markell was killed through the date of her arrest. Okay. [00:08:06] Speaker 2: And I know you got records, [00:08:07] Speaker 1: today yes ma'am okay we want to talk about the period from when Danny Markell was killed I should say we want to talk about my questions are going to relate to from the date that Danny Markell was killed through the date of her arrest okay and I know you got records of some people's records phone records etc that were from prior to Danny being killed correct correct emails etc correct and and my questioning will address those as well okay okay okay um I want to ask you a question you have testified about getting a wire tap right I didn't personally get the wire tap and I've testified about the wire tap correct one was obtained in this case that's correct and when I say in this case I'm not referring to Donna Adelson I'm referring to there's a lot of co-conspirators that are alleged right correct and and wiretaps were approved by the court for two people in the case correct yes ma'am so the only wiretaps you got from the date of Danny Markell's homicide through mrs. Adelson being arrested uh were on Charlie Adelson correct correct and Catherine Magbanawa right the [00:09:29] Speaker 2: only ones we got on this case were that's correct all right and in this case I mean who I just included [00:09:36] Speaker 1: I mean you testified Lewis Rivera was arrested correct correct and he entered a plea deal correct okay and uh Sigfredo Garcia the one who did the killing he was arrested that's correct and convicted and we'll go back to that in a minute then you got who Charlie Adelson and Catherine Magbanawa right that's correct and then you have Mrs. Adelson who's been charged correct correct so of those five people the only wiretaps you ever got were on Charlie Adelson and Catherine Magbanawa correct that's correct there was a previous wiretap on [00:10:11] Speaker 2: Louis Rivera okay all right when you say previous what is that time period that was in 2014 through [00:10:19] Speaker 1: to and I think went into 2015 okay so it was one wiretap that you got that was extended it was not our [00:10:27] Speaker 2: wiretap it was a different agency's wiretap that were investigating him for the crime that he was incarcerated for okay not for this case not for this case correct but there were available recordings that we reviewed okay of his wiretap okay all right that participant that assisted us with this investigation [00:10:45] Speaker 1: okay thank you and to get a wiretap um there's a process you have to go through right correct uh uh an affidavit or basically showing probable cause has to be submitted to the court correct that's correct a petition for a wiretap has to be submitted to the court yes and the court reviews it and if the court approves it based on the probable cause and the petition here in this case it was granted twice right that's correct and in what has to be shown in this affidavit is probable cause right correct and what is your working knowledge of what probable cause means my working knowledge yes [00:11:20] Speaker 2: sir it's it's it's evidence that is built upon that is uh shows a uh a pattern of what can be beyond re re on a reasonable doubt not really not beyond a reasonable doubt but brings upon um [00:11:39] Speaker 1: reasonable suspicion upon something okay great so i'm glad you clarified that uh a probable cause affidavit is basically you have evidence that a crime has been committed correct correct and the particular person who's the suspect in that affidavit is uh probably the person who committed the crime is that kind of a fair way to say it that's one way to say it yes okay all right not beyond a reasonable doubt no not beyond reasonable doubt okay and when someone when you get an arrest warrant it's the same thing it's just probable cause correct correct not beyond reasonable doubt that's correct okay now i don't think you were asked about it specifically but as the lead investigator on the case you're familiar with with the circumstances of mr markell being killed right yes ma'am i mean uh he was followed by uh secreto and garcia and lewis rivera um the day of his murder yes ma'am uh he followed they followed him from his house uh to the preschool that the children went to right correct they watched him walk the children into the school correct that's correct and then when he left the school and went to the gym they followed him there right correct and after he was done with the gym he they followed him to his home that's correct okay and during the course of this morning besides those actions what's happening is there's communication between dan markell and and wendy adelson right that's correct and they're that's right and i think uh the the communication that was spoken of here was uh danny markel he leaves a voicemail um for wendy that morning right i believe so that's correct i can't recall if you were the witness where that was played or not were you no ma'am have you listened to it uh it's been a long time ago would you would you agree with me that it was a pretty pleasant message i can't disagree with that okay mr markell was being friendly about you know he and and wendy potentially getting together uh to discuss one of the children's school that they might be going to right yes he even suggests i think that that they could meet at the school and take a walk and talk about it right i don't recall that part but it was pleasant okay uh you are familiar with the text messages that took place between them after that phone call right it's i was it's been years since i've looked at them okay you're not going to be able to answer any of my questions about those then i might not be able to you can try we got other witnesses we'll go on if you don't know them okay okay based on all of the evidence in the case mr markell didn't know what was happening did he [00:14:49] Speaker 2: he didn't know what was going to happen to him right no ma'am i don't believe he did he didn't [00:14:52] Speaker 1: know he was being followed you don't have any evidence that he was aware of that no ma'am we do not believe that okay and i you have surveillance footage at the at the daycare right not at the daycare [00:15:05] Speaker 2: at the gym and some cross traffic cameras i don't remember the daycare okay i might i might have [00:15:11] Speaker 1: misspoken on that i apologize okay but mr markell being unaware of what was going to happen to him that morning he was just kind of going about life as usual is that fair to say yes ma'am he was when he took his children to the the uh preschool and hugged and kissed them and sent them on in the room he didn't know that was the last time he was going to see him he did not and those children certainly didn't know that was the last time they were ever in their lives going to see their father no they didn't and we've gone through they go to the gym they follow uh sigfredo garcia and sometimes i mess up their names lewis rivera follow him in their car back to his home right correct and uh the evidence is that sigfredo garcia they pull up behind mr markell in his driveway right correct and uh the car is still running um mr markell is still inside of it and from the evidence you're aware of he was talking on the phone to someone that's correct and uh he at least is alerted from from the evidence that you obtained that somebody is in his driveway and he doesn't know who it is right that's correct and from the evidence uh that you have reviewed what happens is sigfredo garcia exits the car and he goes up and and through the glass shoots danny markell twice right correct once in the cheek area and one time almost right between the eyes that's correct so the investigation really begins in the case when the neighbor i think his name was mr geiger he calls 9-1-1 correct correct and he's already testified to what what transpired that made him made that call to 9-1-1 but as soon as 9-1-1 is called the investigation starts is that fair to say i'd agree with that okay law enforcement was on the scene there were a bunch of cars right correct and uh crime scene tape was put up so that the crime scene would be secure and evidence wouldn't be tampered with or trump trampled over whatever is that right that's correct cars were not allowed to go up towards the house right that's my understanding okay um but people who drove up to the crime scene tape and could turn around in your investigation they would be able to see these cars sitting out [00:17:34] Speaker 2: there in front of mr markell's house right it depends on which side of the street you're on i believe but i was not at the scene so i can't really testify to that okay have you reviewed the pictures i have seen pictures okay [00:17:50] Speaker 1: now i don't recall what time it is but sometime in the afternoon um i think it was tpd located wendy adelson having lunch with some friends right that was tpd yes ma'am okay and they took her back to uh tpd and they spoke to her right they did okay you're aware of that interview i am have you observed it i have okay and during the course of that interview which is several hours long right i believe so it's been a while okay um there are times when she's sitting in the room with a victim advocate alone correct correct sometimes uh i don't remember was he detective investigator isom investigator isom investigator isom comes in and speaks to her some right correct sherry bennett comes in and talks to her about some things from tpd correct i don't believe so that's okay we'll have another witness okay um but you agree people are coming and going out of the room yes ma'am and uh wendy adelson there are many adelson so i'll stop saying this is i'll give their first names okay wendy adelson uh is is recorded from the time she gets into that room until they are done speaking to her and she's going to be permitted to leave right i believe so yes okay and during the course of her being interviewed she says many things but she certainly says that mr markell's parents are going to think that she did it right i believe that's correct and then uh she starts answering questions about who it is that that possibly could have done this to mr markell and she gives lots of of choices maybe it's a angry student right right uh maybe maybe it's someone that got upset with him right right and when she talks about her family she said that her brother had previously joked uh that he was going to get a hitman but instead it was cheaper to get her a tv correct correct and when asked about who was angry she said that her parents disliked him more than anyone those were her statements right i believe so yes okay and from that from that date that that she's interviewed there and she gives statements fair to say that her family become suspects [00:20:22] Speaker 2: it depends on whose definition of suspects you have but they are persons of interest persons of [00:20:28] Speaker 1: interest okay from that time period yes ma'am okay how many suspects did you have from the time mr markell was killed through donna adelson being arrested suspects um i would call them persons of [00:20:42] Speaker 2: interest first i'm sorry i'm sorry we'll use your word yeah we had a lot of persons of interest throughout the case okay i couldn't tell you a number but there was numerous you followed up on numerous [00:20:52] Speaker 1: persons of interest yes ma'am how long were there numerous persons of interest before you were focused in on the adelson family um about a year a year yes ma'am so you didn't consider in the first year [00:21:05] Speaker 2: the adelson family as persons of interest i considered them you asked me if i was focused and i was focused [00:21:11] Speaker 1: about a year in okay on them yes ma'am okay there was an investigation going on uh regarding the adelson's from the time that wendy started saying these comments right they were part of the investigation okay i mean bank records were obtained very early on on the adelson family correct that's correct and those were updated throughout the entire investigation right there was different times during the investigation [00:21:36] Speaker 2: they were updated after they became main suspects and we identified lewis rivera we definitely did then [00:21:43] Speaker 1: and um starting on july the 21st of 2014 up through the day that that donna adelson was arrested you stayed active actively involved in the investigation right yes ma'am and and in fact [00:22:00] Speaker 2: you were even there when she was arrested correct i was there on every single arrest yes ma'am [00:22:04] Speaker 1: you're invested in the case because you were the lead investigator yes ma'am okay have you ever made a mistake in your work sure have you ever initially assumed that one person might be a suspect or a person of interest and later it turned out that they were not the one that committed the crime [00:22:26] Speaker 2: not a suspect no ma'am no not a person of interest maybe a person of interest yes not a suspect you've been [00:22:33] Speaker 1: you've been you've been right from the time you thought that they were a person of interest through [00:22:37] Speaker 2: them being arrested not made a mistake as a suspect the suspect i deem as somebody we have probable cause on okay [00:22:56] Speaker 1: all right so not just tpd um and not just you with the fbi there were several agencies who were involved [00:23:06] Speaker 2: in this investigation is that fair to say not for the investigation i would disagree with that you [00:23:12] Speaker 1: was the state attorney's office investigator was not involved in the investigation later on he was but [00:23:16] Speaker 2: there's not several several agencies there was just a few that assisted uh well the miami-dade police [00:23:22] Speaker 1: department got involved did they not they assisted correct and uh they assisted with the the search warrant and and uh mrs adelson donna adelson's home right that's correct they were there when she was [00:23:34] Speaker 2: arrested is that right i believe that was the miami-dade uh believe that was miami-dade there's different agencies down there so yes different agencies would would assist when we needed help yes so some agency down there was was there for arrest right what i'm saying is there's not a bunch of agencies who were invested in the case throughout the entire investigation oh sure they've been assisted there there are main [00:23:58] Speaker 1: investigative agencies yourself and tpd correct but there were others who were involved as well that were involved that assisted us yes right even the florida department of law enforcement was involved in assisting right that's correct and so fair to say you had resources that were beyond just tpd correct correct okay and the evidence that's been collected in this case has been for years right correct i mean we're like at this point unfortunately mr markell has been gone for is my math right 11 years yes ma'am okay and the different kinds of evidence that that was obtained in this case include a lot of emails i'd agree with that uh one witness testified that there were hundreds of thousands of [00:24:53] Speaker 2: emails that were obtained in this case i don't know what another witness testified to this no [00:24:57] Speaker 1: i'm just i'm asking your knowledge you're aware that that there were hundreds of thousands i do know that yes okay and in addition to having uh these emails you also uh recovered a lot of text messages right yes ma'am okay now hundreds of thousands of emails i can tell you from my experience in this case that's not easy to go through is it no ma'am so were a lot of people involved in reviewing the emails for [00:25:25] Speaker 2: the investigation tpd had people that reviewed the emails okay [00:25:32] Speaker 1: and i'm sure you're not familiar with all hundreds of thousands of them is that fair to say that's very fair to say the ones that have been presented here with the state and you going over with them preparing for court some of them have been introduced into evidence right that's correct and also um in addition to that there are even though you don't have recorded calls until the [00:26:00] Speaker 2: bump i guess that's fair to say i could be mistaken but i think that's probably the first recorded [00:26:07] Speaker 1: calls when i say recorded calls i mean the wire calls they that's that's what you have that you've [00:26:13] Speaker 2: testified to here in court we had some wire calls prior to the bomb like the first like a week about a week before the bomb mr rivera are you referring to no ma'am we started the wire before the bomb okay give me those dates i can refresh my note look at my notes refresh my memory yeah please do it looks like four eight of sixteen is when we started the wire on mr adelson mr charlie adelson [00:26:54] Speaker 1: and katherine mcmanwell and that went all the way through is it june the 7th i should refer [00:26:59] Speaker 2: to my notes again please do i don't have that on my timeline but that sounds about right june 7th is when well actually i do have so we did actually get another couple of wires after sigfredo was arrested i'm sorry after i interviewed mr mr garcia he went and bought two burner phones and we went up on those phones also okay as he was arrested as he i interviewed him released him he went bought two burner phones we went up on those phones also and then we ended up arresting him and then shortly after that we went down on all the wires on the two wires and his two burner phones okay with respect to [00:27:54] Speaker 1: charlie adelson and katherine mcmanwell those ended around june the 7th correct yes ma'am i believe that's [00:28:00] Speaker 2: correct okay [00:28:04] Speaker 1: in addition to those recorded calls that you have um you also in this investigation have what's called call detail records from even before mr markell was killed right yes called detail records showing the calls back and forth eight times just yes ma'am not just back and forth between people here but [00:28:27] Speaker 2: other people too right all their phone it's their phone records there's no content that's what it is it's the call detailed records yes ma'am so you got those for an extended period of time right we did many [00:28:37] Speaker 1: years yes ma'am and you talked about tpd reviewing the the emails the hundreds of thousands of emails how about the the recorded calls was someone listening in on those which recorded calls for the bomb [00:28:59] Speaker 2: so you're talking about the wire calls yes yes we had people who had to live monitor those calls we can't just record them without somebody sitting there and listening to them they have [00:29:08] Speaker 1: to minimize them as they go let's talk about minimizing minimizing is when there's a point in a call where something's being discussed that's not relevant to your investigation is that fair to say that's fair and so the minimization takes place in that click we're not we're not we're not recording that part we're not listening to the part how does that work yeah they hit a button and it stops [00:29:32] Speaker 2: recording and stops listening okay and then they are they give a certain amount of time they go back in and start listening again to see if there's anything relevant okay to the conversation all right [00:29:41] Speaker 1: and in in some of these calls that have been admitted they could be extended calls many minutes but there's only a very short period of time that's [00:29:53] Speaker 2: that's relevant to this case is that fair to say that's that officer who's actually monitoring at that time that's their determination so they've been instructed on how to do the minimization and they listen to the best of their knowledge and they make those determinations of whether they think it's relevant or not okay [00:30:15] Speaker 1: but you would agree that some of these calls that well let's just give an example there's a call on april the 15th of 2016 if you look at your summary 8 32 pm and it says it's 50 minutes and nine seconds do you see that you said april 15th you know the call number 2016 2016. oh i'm sorry it's 989. oh perfect yes ma'am i see it 50 minutes long yes ma'am for 50 minutes they're talking but they're not talking about this case for 50 minutes fair to say [00:30:57] Speaker 2: fair to say they're not talking about this case in regards to the actual i would say it's relevant to the case it's relevant to the case yes ma'am so if they're talking about [00:31:09] Speaker 1: charlie wanting to buy a go-cart and become a professional go-cart driver that that's relevant to the case i believe some of that was minimized right so my point is if it's a 50-minute call that doesn't mean the 50 minutes are about this case right no all 50 minutes of it no ma'am okay okay so we may have heard two minutes in some of these calls that say they're lengthy correct i mean some of the calls we listened to completely you know 10-minute calls 15-minute calls we listen those entirely right some of them we did yes okay but most of them we're looking at segments right yes ma'am so where it says the duration of the call you're not saying that the duration is they've spoken on the phone about this case for that period of time no ma'am not at all okay i know i'm going to get this wrong because just because i get things wrong so i'm not not going to pronounce this right i can't remember if it's jeffrey lacoste lacasse or something i say lacoste okay i don't know either all right was he a person of interest [00:32:34] Speaker 2: i didn't deal with mr lacoste i never interviewed him i had no real dealings with him so as far as your [00:32:42] Speaker 1: knowledge in the investigation was a person of interest at some point i'm sure he was wendy adelson in her interview didn't actually offer up jeff lacoste as a suspect did she [00:33:02] Speaker 2: i don't know what you mean offer him up as a suspect well when law enforcement's asking her [00:33:05] Speaker 1: who could have done this she doesn't say she doesn't say oh i've got this boyfriend ex-boyfriend jeff lacoste and he probably did it she doesn't say that does she i don't believe so in fact she has a friend come into the interview room with her you recall that not really you don't okay that's okay we'll get him play it you recall that it's that friend who says jeff lacoste i don't that's okay how many witnesses do you think you interviewed witnesses yes sir [00:33:45] Speaker 2: i'm not sure i couldn't even hundreds no not hundreds no less than 50 less than 50. 25 [00:33:58] Speaker 1: witnesses yeah definitely less than 25. okay and what about persons of interest how many did you [00:34:03] Speaker 2: interview me personally yes sir just a handful handful [00:34:17] Speaker 1: there was a call rr and that's there's so many calls that's not going to ring a bell to you i'm sure i'm not even sure if looking at your summary it's going to ring a bell but you were here when the calls were played obviously yes ma'am and call rr is on april the 29th of 2016 uh between katherine magbanawa and charlie adelson it says the duration is 10 minutes and 20 seconds yes ma'am do you do you recall that there was a a call played a recording played yesterday uh where they're talking and there are some pretty inappropriate comments about her breasts that's not how he or she referred to them but remember that call i do and and at that time katherine magbanawa is going into uh charlie edelson's garage you recall that i do do you remember him telling her to take off her shirt so that that she would know how to get into the garage yes ma'am and you know from in your investigation uh the the reference for that is she has a tattoo on her ribs that is 12 14 and that happens to be his garage code correct that's what i've been told i haven't seen it okay is it fair to say that the information um that was obtained in these recorded calls was used in your investigation to determine if you're moving forward on a person or not is that [00:35:56] Speaker 2: fair to say that was a piece of it okay yes it was [00:36:05] Speaker 1: charlie adelson in the dolce vita recording that was played with you right yes ma'am and that's where katie and uh charlie are meeting at a restaurant right correct april 20th of 2016. yes ma'am sounds right and uh in addition to uh a recording inside the restaurant where they're talking um i guess there's some pictures also right inside the restaurant outside the restaurant they take [00:36:38] Speaker 2: pictures outside the restaurant when they were on the sidewalk yes ma'am that's before or after they [00:36:42] Speaker 1: go inside after okay so they go inside and they're there for an extended period of time is that fair to say correct and there's one or more agent or officer of some sort in there with uh concealed recording devices trying to capture their conversation right correct and you recall that in dolce vitae charlie tells katie trust me i'll keep you full time so you're going to get your checks he says that doesn't he i believe he did yes and you considered that as part of your investigation [00:37:14] Speaker 2: considered that statement yes yeah sure okay [00:37:40] Speaker 1: okay so we've had the agencies that have helped in some way right yes ma'am and tpd wasn't responsible for reviewing the emails who was responsible for listening to the calls um it was tpd was monitoring [00:37:57] Speaker 2: the calls they had officers assigned to shifts monitoring the calls live live they did it around the clock right yes ma'am well i don't remember i don't recall doing a night night shift a late night [00:38:09] Speaker 1: shift but we could have i don't remember okay many many hours a day they're listening in on all the phone calls of of mag banawa and charlie edelson okay correct and these people who are listening in how are they getting the information to the investigators on the case when they hear something that they think is relevant how does that process work um there's different ways um sometimes [00:38:30] Speaker 2: they would call us directly sometimes um myself or investigator eisen would be in there or other people on the um squad would be in there or they would yeah they would relay the information through [00:38:41] Speaker 1: different means okay and you say in there you mean actually in there where they're listening to the call in the wire room yes ma'am okay and were you actually listening in on the calls as well [00:38:52] Speaker 2: not no ma'am i was mostly in south florida okay during a lot of the wire i would go in there and review calls because we can go in there and they would mark them pertinent what was pertinent non-pertinent so we would have to go in and and listen to calls that had already been made and recorded and that's where we would [00:39:07] Speaker 1: have to go to listen to them okay when you say uh mark permanent what did you say pertinent pertinent i'm sorry i misspoke pertinent or not pertinent you said they're marked that way did you get some kind [00:39:17] Speaker 2: of printout or something that showed you that there's a database computer database that we could go in and [00:39:22] Speaker 1: and log in and see these calls listed yes ma'am and so yourself and isom and maybe others had access to go in and listen yes ma'am okay if there was something really urgent is somebody letting you know that right away yes [00:39:35] Speaker 2: usually we had we get left them instructions okay to do that and something urgent would be oh my goodness [00:39:41] Speaker 1: somebody's meeting up right yes ma'am and so the resources that you had in south florida at the time including yourself is some of these people are going to be meeting up we need to go see what we can [00:39:51] Speaker 2: capture is that right there was a short period after the bump that we did that not throughout [00:39:57] Speaker 1: a long period of time of course sure right okay during the bump that's going on that i'm referring to the bump as not just the day they meet on the street but that that period of time where you have the the wire live down there okay yes ma'am okay and during that period of time yourself you were there were there other people on standby to assist you there were i had some other fbi agents that are assigned to miami division that were assisting me including the individuals who went in and did the recordings is that fair that's correct okay and you said you were there for some of them which ones were you there for for some of what the meetings that were recorded [00:40:33] Speaker 2: i was there for the bump i was there for the next day meeting with mrs adelson and mr charlie adelson when they met on the boardwalk i was there i mean i was in south florida the whole time whether i was physically at the meeting it's hard to say um i was outside of dolce vita i did not go in because i had already been close to mr adelson and mrs charlie adelson and donna adelson the day that they met on the boardwalk i was pretty close to them so i wasn't sure if they noticed me or not so i didn't go back in and get close to them again after that so i did not go into dolce vita i did not go into [00:41:09] Speaker 1: matsuri i was outside but not inside the restaurants okay and when you said you'd you'd already been close to them you mean in proximity not that they were aware of you and what your job was no ma'am okay and uh also in this case there was use of i guess firearms experts was that at fdle that would have been fdle and the purpose of that and the investigation was to determine if both of the [00:41:37] Speaker 2: projectiles came from the same weapon right i don't believe we had that examination done that's okay [00:41:45] Speaker 1: that if you don't recall at all we'll talk about that from somebody else we didn't we didn't recover [00:41:50] Speaker 2: the weapon so we did not have a we didn't have a weapon right right but you can compare two projectiles [00:41:57] Speaker 1: from the markings on them to see if they came from the same good okay correct all right and you said you had surveillance videos from the gym from premier gym yes ma'am okay where else did you have surveillance video footage of which point any point in this investigation investigation yes sir oh wow [00:42:17] Speaker 2: i know we had some traffic cameras um from the time of his drive um you're talking about when mr markell was driving the kids to um to the daycare right and when he was driving to the gym okay we had bus surveillance video okay you referred to surveillance video we had some surveillance video of inside dolce vita along with the recording we had some recordings of when they came out of dolce vita that's all i can recall right now i'm sure there's probably more probably more possibly okay oh surveillance video from the bank when i've located mr mr revere and mr garcia going to the bank immediately following the homicide on the way back from tallahassee they stopped at a bank in the atm right i got surveillance video from that atm right [00:43:23] Speaker 1: let me ask you this um the co-conspirators is how i refer to them the co-conspirators that have been tried and convicted uh the first question is were they followed uh prior to their arrests [00:43:41] Speaker 2: the ones which ones specific any of the ones that have been tried and convicted followed plot prior to their arrest yes like the day of their arrest or anytime anytime before that yes um sigfredo garcia and katherine mcbanwell i had electronic video surveillance on their residence [00:44:03] Speaker 1: that means somebody's there watching their residence no ma'am how do you get that then we we use cameras cameras yes ma'am [00:44:13] Speaker 2: well i don't want you to and we also did some surveillance on katherine mcbanwell when she went to go meet charlie adelson to pick up checks before the bump we did surveillance on her then [00:44:24] Speaker 1: how did you know she was going to pick up checks we were already up on the wire that week prior and [00:44:29] Speaker 2: that's the photo that was shown to me earlier in the trial of her getting out of the black car and [00:44:34] Speaker 1: getting into charlie's car that was for picking up checks yes ma'am the check she picked up came from charlie [00:44:38] Speaker 2: adelson well he handed he gave her the check that day correct [00:44:50] Speaker 1: um pretty incredible that you were able to determine the vehicle and find it throughout tallahassee on bus bus [00:45:02] Speaker 2: cameras is that what you said you used that wasn't me particularly that was uh tbd did a great job they did a great job of going back with the timeline of the neighbor and everything and once they saw the video at premiere and were able to see the vehicle there they knew the time frames and they went back and got all the video they did a outstanding job on that yeah [00:45:25] Speaker 1: the people um that were uh conducting surveillance if you will on the co-conspirators who've been charged were they with the fbi the your folks or were they with a different agency [00:45:41] Speaker 2: um the one that i just spoke about with charlie and katie that were fbi personnel doing that surveillance the video surveillance i did with through the fbi okay yeah i believe all the ones in south florida [00:45:58] Speaker 1: were probably all fbi in addition to the people who've been convicted of this offense was my client donna adelson was did someone watch her coming and goings at any point [00:46:11] Speaker 2: yes and when was that leading up to the bump i had a fbi personnel doing surveillance to get a pattern of life so we could find out where she was going so we could come up with an idea of [00:46:24] Speaker 1: where to conduct a bump at okay and that was where she would be outside walking is that fair correct when [00:46:31] Speaker 2: she went to go pick up mr markell's children from preschool we were able to determine what time she left out of there and it was a consistent time every day that she went to go pick the children up from school so we determined that was a good time to set up the operation because we had a known time when that [00:46:47] Speaker 1: was going to occur right and and was she followed in her vehicle places that she traveled to [00:46:53] Speaker 2: i don't recall exactly if she was followed in her vehicle it's possible though during that time [00:46:59] Speaker 1: period trying to get a pattern of life in determining this pattern of life where she walks her grandchildren to the school before school starts and then walks back to pick them up were you present for observing [00:47:12] Speaker 2: that not on those days on the day of the bump i was okay but you got that information from whoever [00:47:18] Speaker 1: in the fbi was doing the surveillance right correct okay and in addition to the live surveillance there the recordings that you've had folks have been retained to do an enhancement of some of those things correct that's correct so if the recording doesn't sound real clear from what you obtained in your equipment when you went in an enhancement means that you basically block out some of the outside noise if you will and and then you can hear the the voice of the person speaking that you want to hear you can hear them more clearly is that correct it's a clarification yes ma'am okay and in addition to all of the things we've talked about uh cell phones were recovered in this case by law enforcement correct yes ma'am and some computers as well correct correct and those were searched right as far as i know yes you didn't participate in that part no ma'am but you're aware in the investigation that material that has been used in prosecuting these individuals came from those phones and and computers right i am now you never got a wiretap on donna adelson's phone correct no ma'am and one year into it you you decided that that did she move from a person of interest to a suspect i don't remember [00:48:49] Speaker 2: how you worded it yes ma'am once i identified siegfredo garcia as being in tallahassee the day of the murder at the at the gym and identified lewis rivera we were able to go back and get phone records and that's when i was able to link back to the adelson family okay [00:49:17] Speaker 1: and you've testified on direct when each person was arrested um i guess it would have been garcia first and then rivera was already incarcerated right that's correct we still visited him and and [00:49:32] Speaker 2: he was he was i can't remember if it was a complaint or an indictment but he was still indicted [00:49:36] Speaker 1: under this case he was indicted okay but but at the time he was indicted he was serving a printed prison sentence in federal prison is that right yes ma'am he was in colvin fci at the time and his [00:49:47] Speaker 2: sentence for his federal case was what i believe it was 12 years if i'm not mistaken but it's been [00:49:53] Speaker 1: a while okay and in this case uh he assisted law enforcement we've heard testimony that you're aware of that eventually he did yes ma'am okay and and his assistance was taking you places explaining things [00:50:06] Speaker 2: is that fair to say yes ma'am he we drove him around tallahassee and let him explain things and then we drove him down to south florida looking for the weapon down to south florida looking for the weapon that's where you thought the weapon was yes ma'am that's where he told us that they ditched the weapon was on the way to south florida it was on along the road on the way to south florida when they [00:50:26] Speaker 1: threw the weapon in a river and whereabouts do you recall whereabouts was that between tallahassee and where they went to when the homicide was over in south florida we're at where he said he dumped the [00:50:38] Speaker 2: weapon yes where did you yes ma'am it was in tampa outside of tampa okay we finally identified a bridge that he thought looked like the bridge that he that him and sigfredo sigfredo actually threw the gun away but he was driving but you didn't locate it no ma'am we did extensive searches [00:50:54] Speaker 1: for the weapon he told you what kind of gun was used correct yes ma'am and and what was that gun [00:50:59] Speaker 2: what type it was a 38 i don't remember if it was smith and wesson but it's been a while it was a revolver [00:51:06] Speaker 1: right it was a revolver yes ma'am you recall that in in around june of 2016 so after this bump period and the ending of the the wiretap that uh the probable cause in this case it was leaked out wasn't it that's what i was told and tpd [00:51:43] Speaker 2: actually held a press conference right they did hold a press conference at some point yes and the edelson [00:51:50] Speaker 1: family uh according to what tpd said and those probable cause affidavit the edelson family were announced as being considered as suspects right i don't believe they talked about that at the press [00:52:03] Speaker 2: conference at all i think they just at the press conference what i remember is him just announcing um sigfredo garcia's arrest but i that's what i that's what i recall but it's been nine years ago [00:52:15] Speaker 1: sure and it's mentioned in the probable cause too right it was mentioned in the probable cause yes ma'am that's not the press conference though yeah i had i i made a mistake i asked a compound question i included them both and okay obviously the first thing i said was was the uh the press conference and that that's what you picked up on so that's my fault okay no problem okay now from the time that mr markell was murdered to the time that donna edelson was arrested fair to say she lived a pretty routine life right [00:52:59] Speaker 2: i don't know what her routine life is but i would i i couldn't disagree with that well during your [00:53:04] Speaker 1: investigation you learned that she worked at the edelson institute right correct you learned that uh harvey edelson her husband of now 54 years uh did general dentistry there right that's correct you learned that charlie edelson was a periodontist and worked some out of the edelson institute but he also did i guess it's dental surgery i'm not real familiar with it but basically he did dental surgery for [00:53:29] Speaker 2: many different doctors right i believe it was periodontal work but yes yeah he traveled around and did [00:53:34] Speaker 1: yeah i'm sorry if i misspoke i thought i thought surgery was the periodontist i don't know either whatever he was a specialist right yes ma'am and he did that work for several different dentists correct [00:53:45] Speaker 2: he did he traveled around in different offices and worked out about other people's offices what he did [00:53:49] Speaker 1: and a lot of the calls that he made as his mother that you've listened to he's talking to her between [00:53:54] Speaker 2: these appointments right he is okay during appointments sometimes too it sounds like okay yeah it did didn't [00:54:02] Speaker 1: okay during this time period from your investigation you're aware that after mr markell was murdered until the time that mrs edelson was arrested she and her husband left the united states several times on to travel right they did and they returned each time right they did okay back in 2019 is when the i message outside your house was obtained during the course of this investigation right i don't know the date somebody else does but well i'll have to ask somebody else that now on these calls that you're listening to you're hearing what the parties are saying to each other correct yes ma'am and you're not hearing any of the conversations unless you've recorded them of what they speak about before that right i'm sorry can you reassure i mean it's clear in these recorded phone calls that these folks are talking in person sometimes correct they're talking about lots of issues that are recorded but but they speak outside of these recorded calls that you have that's correct so you're not privy to that if you haven't recorded it that's that's fair so when they're having these conversations there are things in their mind that you're not aware of that's possible yes now all of these calls that have been played here today they were considered as one of the pieces of your investigation right one of the pieces correct so on call s when charlie says to his mother you didn't do anything to anybody you don't know anything [00:56:04] Speaker 2: you considered that yes ma'am we considered it okay [00:56:16] Speaker 1: and on these calls where charlie adelson is talking to his mother you would agree that at least the majority of the conversation comes from charlie right i would agree with that yes sometimes the overwhelming majority of the conversation is that fair to say sometimes yes and there are times that mrs adelson is talking to charlie on the phone and she says uh we'll meet up and talk about it we we're i'm not going to talk about it on the phone with you right yes she does and you don't know where she got the idea from of why it is she's not going to talk about it on the phone do you do i know from your investigation have you gotten evidence to show why it is she's saying those things [00:57:05] Speaker 2: through my investigation um do you have evidence okay do i have evidence no okay [00:57:22] Speaker 1: now catherine mcbanewa um well sucrata went to trial and he was convicted right yes ma'am and lewis rivera after he was indicted uh or before he was indicted he he cooperated with with law enforcement correct that's incorrect after he was indicted it was well after he's indicted okay sorry i got the timeline wrong so well after he's indicted on the charges he decides he's going to cooperate right yes it was a few months later okay and he had a 12-year sentence with the federal in federal prison right he already had that yes ma'am right based on federal charges right correct and he got a sentence for his role in this case for a period of 19 years correct correct but that was to be served concurrently meaning at the same time with the sentence that he had on his federal case right i believe so so the additional time that he got for this homicide is seven years correct that sounds correct okay and uh mr garcia is the first one to be tried and convicted right he's the first one who's convicted okay he's tried together right but that first trial of him he's convicted right correct and he sent us to life in prison correct and then catherine mcbanewa has a trial and she's convicted correct correct and uh charlie adelson is so we've got the first three uh life in prison except for lewis rivera who gets basically an additional seven years right correct then you get to charlie adelson and he's arrested right correct and he has a trial correct correct and his uh defense if you will i mean you were there for [00:59:08] Speaker 2: that trial right i was there for my part of the trial i did not see i was not allowed to be in the [00:59:14] Speaker 1: courtroom during the rest of the testimony was there at any point during the course of uh mr charlie adelson uh going to trial getting convicted and thereafter that you learned that his defense was that he was being extorted yes i did you heard that yes ma'am but he gotten convicted didn't he yes ma'am and he was sentenced to life in prison that's correct okay so uh then comes catherine mcbanewa after she's been convicted and she's in prison for life right correct uh the testimony is that she gave a proffer to law enforcement right correct she actually gave two proffers first correct yes ma'am and when she gave those proffers she gave information about what she says happened right yes ma'am and uh she's hoping she's giving this cooperation because she's not promised anything but hoping as she's testified that someday she'll see her kids so she won't actually have to serve a life sentence [01:00:15] Speaker 2: that's fair to say right i don't know that for a fact but i would assume that's correct okay and when [01:00:20] Speaker 1: she gives these two proffers it's before she testifies against charlie adelson right correct and the first proffer that she gives is a little bit different than the story she told in two different trials so far uh sigfredo garcias and then herself right i would agree with that she changes some [01:00:40] Speaker 2: information i don't know if she changes information she has more information as time goes on because she was i believe she was minimizing the first two proffers which is very very common for defendants [01:00:52] Speaker 1: to do they minimize their role in in actual crimes right so when she testifies in sigfredo garcia's [01:01:00] Speaker 2: trial and then in her trial basically oh i'm sorry that's okay i misunderstood what you said about which [01:01:07] Speaker 1: trial no i'm sorry i can't speak over you and i talk way too fast because the court reporter can only get [01:01:11] Speaker 2: one of us so i apologize for that it's not intentional um i thought you said the proffer i did okay i did [01:01:20] Speaker 1: okay so i'm changing now okay so she basically when she testifies in those first two trials [01:01:27] Speaker 2: she didn't just minimize she didn't have involvement right that's she lied in the first two trials she [01:01:32] Speaker 1: lied straight up correct okay and then she gives this first proffer and she's not being completely honest [01:01:38] Speaker 2: there either is she she's not being fully forthcoming okay the way i described it all right and and and and you're in that interview yes ma'am and who else is in there with her uh jason newland um investigator state attorney's office and um sherry bennett with the telos police department okay all right [01:01:55] Speaker 1: and uh when you all are in there in there interviewing her the first time she's not being forthcoming and you're asking her questions aren't you correct and you know she's not being forthcoming because of other things you obtained in the investigation and the convictions that you've had right [01:02:11] Speaker 2: i feel like she's holding back her involvement and at some point in that first proper you got so frustrated you just got up and walked out didn't you i will we let i left the room i didn't walk out we left the room to let her think about it it's a strategic process to have them think about it and reconsider them not being totally honest with us so it wasn't that i was walking out done with her [01:02:33] Speaker 1: you weren't done because she came back and then she gave another proffer correct right and from the first proffer that she gave to the second proper that she gave she tells more right she does okay and then she gets to charlie adelson's trial and by the time she gets there she's got more information even she testifies to right i would agree with that okay so she wasn't honest in her first testimony at her trial right her in her trial correct well she testified twice there were two trials she testified [01:03:04] Speaker 2: in first correct her trials she was yes she lied in her first two trials absolutely okay and she wasn't [01:03:11] Speaker 1: completely forthcoming in her first proper correct and she wasn't completely forthcoming in her second proper correct and she comes into the third trial with with or yeah the third trial is charlie adelson and she provides additional information which means she wasn't forthcoming before right correct okay and then she's been here in trial are you aware that she's testified here i'm aware she was here but i know nothing about it right because you're under a rule that you can't talk about the case correct that's correct okay are you real familiar with all of the testimony and proffers that she's given in this case no you're [01:04:00] Speaker 2: not not real familiar yeah i can't say i'm real familiar depends on what it is i guess are you real [01:04:08] Speaker 1: familiar with what she testified to in charlie's trial i don't know if i can say i'm real familiar with it that's okay we'll just we'll just we'll get that information and get it to the jury may i have just one moment i left something at my table [01:04:39] Speaker ?: so so so so [01:05:06] Speaker 1: all right there was some testimony about um mrs adelson uh making arrangements to take a trip to vietnam you've testified about that right yes ma'am and you're familiar at least with what happened during that course of the investigation correct correct okay you are you are intimately involved in her time period where she speaks to uh charlie on the phone and we call it the dropped call that's been played here today where she can't she can tell charlie's not on the line anymore but for some reason it continues to to record right right i was [01:06:01] Speaker 2: only familiar with that that friday it's like five days after the call was made when i was made aware [01:06:08] Speaker 1: of that call okay and you were made aware of it on that friday correct uh you had an opportunity to listen to the call yes ma'am and you discussed it with uh the investigator at the state attorney's office yes ma'am anybody else in the investigation that that you spoke to that about that you can recall not that i recall that's on friday right i believe so okay so you have the information from that call on friday and at what point do you learn that she is uh getting a ticket monday morning monday morning the date of the flight yes ma'am is that right where were you at when i found out that she was flying yes sir i was at home at home here in tallahassee yes ma'am okay all right am i going to ask you where that is um so you're at home in tallahassee and how did you find out about she got a flight [01:06:54] Speaker 2: um i got a call from a contact that i had reached out to um and he checked again monday he's the same one that checked to see if there was anything on record of flights being purchased and he called me monday morning said he checked again and saw there was a flight going to vietnam okay so this was a [01:07:11] Speaker 1: contact that you had that was looking to see if she was booking flights is that right [01:07:16] Speaker 2: no ma'am it's not that it's uh it's a government agencies that shows people traveling overseas they were able to check a database to see if there would have been anything that was traveling overseas okay [01:07:26] Speaker 1: so they were checking to see if she had arranged a flight to go overseas correct okay and you learned about the call on friday when did this start that they were checking to see if she had booked flights to go overseas friday and you were concerned about her getting a flight to go overseas based on what was learned in the conversation that was recorded that she was not aware about right correct okay so you start looking and you find out or you don't look i'm sorry your contact notifies you monday morning that she's uh booked a flight she's she's going out of town correct at that point you knew it was vietnam yes ma'am and you knew that there's not a treaty i guess there's not there's not a you know extradition happens in different ways correct that's correct so some countries like vietnam say that they don't automatically extradite correct correct it's much more difficult right but they do extradite correct [01:08:23] Speaker 2: in certain cases they do yes it's kind of a case-by-case thing it is and one of the things that they [01:08:28] Speaker 1: happen to extradite for is murder right i don't know that you don't know that you didn't investigate that i didn't investigate that no okay um so she's booked this flight and she's going to vietnam when did you find out that it was a one-way ticket [01:08:45] Speaker 2: i don't recall it was it could have been that morning it could have been later in today i'm not sure okay [01:08:52] Speaker 1: before the date that you listened to this call there was never a warrant obtained to arrest donna abelson was there no ma'am okay and all you know about leaving town comes from the phone call and your source who tells you that they booked a flight right that's correct you don't have any idea besides that phone call what the conversations are that are going on about this trip to vietnam do you outside of that at that point no ma'am okay any plans that they have actually made for a return without a return ticket at that point you don't know about [01:09:31] Speaker 2: no i could not find anything no ma'am you don't know what they were planning to do [01:09:36] Speaker 1: no but you did learn at some point in this investigation before we sit here today that they actually had the plan to return because one of their grandsons one of mr markell's children had a scheduled bar mitzvah and they were coming back for that right i had heard that i don't know you heard it and you have suspicion i guess that they weren't going to return because this one-way ticket was purchased right are you asking my opinion i'm asking if you believed at the time that you decided to assist in getting a warrant for her to be arrested did you as a professional in this investigation come to a conclusion that we needed to get a warrant because she has a one-way ticket it's not my decision to get a warrant [01:10:34] Speaker 2: i was not involved in the process of getting a warrant you were not involved in that no ma'am so you [01:10:39] Speaker 1: weren't involved in coming to the decision that a warrant needed to be obtained because she was going [01:10:43] Speaker 2: to leave the country no ma'am that's not my decision to make that's the prosecution's decision i didn't [01:10:48] Speaker 1: ask you if it was your decision i said you didn't participate in it it depends on what you mean by [01:10:52] Speaker 2: participate i drove to miami to participate yes ma'am did you have any communication with any [01:10:58] Speaker 1: investigation agency in this case about the fact there was a one-way ticket to a country that doesn't extradite and something probably needs to be done yes ma'am okay thank you i mean because you got on the road then and went to miami i did just in case yes ma'am just in case you traveled no just in case they got a warrant just in case they got a warrant but up to that point there was no warrant that is correct from the date that mr markell was was murdered this all of the investigation that took place right yes hundreds of thousands of emails right correct uh some of them say she says bad things about danny markell and sometimes other people right sure and you've got all of that you've got all of the call detail records right correct no warrant no ma'am and uh she's been watched she's been monitored no warrant yes ma'am no warrant you got her on recorded calls in 2016 saying what she said no warrant that's correct you got a text message where she says outside your house no warrant correct you've got katherine magbanawa who's come through her line and not being completely truthful and no warrant yes and it's not until the time that she has this trip that she's going out of the country that a warrant is obtained that's correct at the time that she started planning that she was going to go out of town there was no warrant correct you were aware that she was getting a visa you all knew that correct she there was no warrant at that time that's correct without a warrant she's free to travel that's correct and when she you're aware in the investigation that she actually spoke to her attorney and it was even on one of the recorded calls it's okay to travel that's correct yes no warrant yes and you're aware as part of the investigation that someone else actually called the state attorney's office on the day that she traveled spoke to jason newland and asked the question because they were concerned about them leaving the country and jason newland at the state attorney's office said there's no warrant she's free to travel i'm not aware of that one you've never learned that in the investigation not that i'm aware of sorry i thought you knew that and one of the calls because you considered all of them at least pieces of them charlie adelson says to him his mother and that's called g you've never hurt or threatened anybody and she says i know yes you at least considered that right sure so uh now they've they've packed their bags and they weren't there was no warrant and they've made their reservation with no warrant correct correct what caused you to leave tallahassee on the day of [01:13:51] Speaker 2: their flight to go to miami because there was no warrant because they told me they were considering it [01:13:57] Speaker 1: who's that the state attorney's office they were considering getting it done yes and you weren't going to wait to see if they were going to do it or not you just got in your car and headed to miami that's [01:14:05] Speaker 2: correct because if i waited i would get there after she was gone waited to see if they made up a decision [01:14:11] Speaker 1: or waited to see if it was approved that they made a decision so what time did you leave tallahassee to [01:14:16] Speaker 2: go to miami it's probably nine o'clock maybe in the morning okay and what time did you arrive in miami around six six six six thirty somewhere around there [01:14:31] Speaker 1: it's normally an eight hour drive but maybe you stop somewhere i'm sure i did get gas definitely maybe something to eat possibly okay so when you drive from tallahassee to miami where did you go to when i got to miami yes sir i went to the airport that was a very open-ended i i wasn't asking from tallahassee obviously but you were alert so you understood got to miami airport that's where you went to when you got to miami yes ma'am that's the first place you went it is okay and when you got there had you been communicating on your trip with anyone at the state attorney's office to see if they had decided if they were going to get a warrant yes and what about what time did you learn they were going [01:15:08] Speaker 2: to get a warrant that they were going to get a warrant or they got the warrant that they were going to try [01:15:13] Speaker 1: and get one what that decision when they decided that they were going to get a warrant did you discuss [01:15:18] Speaker 2: for my recollection was around probably three o'clock three or four o'clock when they when they [01:15:24] Speaker 1: obtained it or when they decided when they decided okay so at three o'clock in the afternoon the state attorney's office decides we're going to get a warrant right i believe so they were still pushing [01:15:34] Speaker 2: pushing through to see if they were going to get a warrant but that was the decision i thought at that [01:15:38] Speaker 1: point okay around three o'clock so you're still traveling at that time yes ma'am not actually there no okay and uh they know that someone calls you i guess um i don't recall it's either one of the [01:15:50] Speaker 2: two yeah either calling me or i called them okay so there was a phone communication there was recall [01:15:55] Speaker 1: who spoke to investigator newland i'm sure okay all right so he says we've decided we're going to try and get a warrant i believe so so you keep going and when you get to the airport in miami where did you go to when you got to the airport obviously you went inside but you know where'd you go to i went to [01:16:11] Speaker 2: the front and met with an agent that i've been speaking with so an agent there an agent from the fbi there's an fbi agent that's assigned to the airport i'd already reached out and found out who he was and talked to him and just to find out if he was going to be able to assist to get the local [01:16:28] Speaker 1: police to assist okay and you spoke to him ahead of time so when you got there he's the first person you met [01:16:35] Speaker 2: with yes ma'am okay and everything was in order then i don't know about an order but he he was in [01:16:43] Speaker 1: communication with the airport police okay and did you relate to him that we are potentially getting a warrant on someone who has a flight we are going to be here there's going to be an fbi presence at [01:16:55] Speaker 2: the airport i don't know if i relate those exact i said there's going to be somebody we're trying to get a warrant for but yes yeah this is happening this is where we're at with it yes you have been an [01:17:06] Speaker 1: investigator for um many a number of years right yes ma'am so i haven't and i'm sure my choice of words isn't necessarily going to be yours but at the end of the day that's what you had told him pretty much yes ma'am okay and in in addition to you as an fbi agent being there at the airport from the time you got there through the time that mrs adelson was arrested what other agencies were [01:17:30] Speaker 2: present and assisting just the miami i believe it's the miami-dade sheriff's department who are who have officers that are assigned there um we did talk to i believe it was i didn't talk to him the other fbi agent talked to him but i believe it was the u.s customs enforcement officers they're playing clothes that work at the airport i think they were there also at some point in that process [01:17:57] Speaker 1: from your arrival to the time that she's arrested did they assist you they did they approached her [01:18:02] Speaker 2: on the jet bridge the u.s customs i believe they were u.s customs [01:18:11] Speaker 1: have just one second please [01:18:21] Speaker ?: okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay so okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay at the time um that you left tallahassee to go to miami [01:19:51] Speaker 1: um were you aware that donna adelson's attorney had spoken to the state attorney's office about her ability to travel because there was no warrant no it was not were you aware that as part of this investigation mrs adelson's attorney was told that if they should get a warrant that she'd be allowed to turn herself in to turn herself in [01:20:56] Speaker ?: Thank you. [01:21:26] Speaker 1: Okay, I might have lost my train of thought. [01:21:36] Speaker ?: Okay. Can I approach the witness? You're better. Is it agent? Special agent? Either or. Either or. Titles don't matter to you? That's fine. Okay. Mr. Sanford, I'm showing you what's been marked for identification purposes. Okay. Is it agent? Can I approach the witness? You're better. Agent? Special agent? Either or. [01:21:47] Speaker 1: Titles don't matter to you? That's fine. [01:21:49] Speaker 3: Okay. [01:21:50] Speaker ?: Mr. Sanford, I'm showing you what's been marked for identification purposes of Defense Exhibit 60. [01:21:56] Speaker 1: Would you look at that for a moment before I ask you questions and just kind of review it? [01:22:02] Speaker 2: Okay. Okay. [01:22:04] Speaker 1: Have you seen that document before? I believe so. [01:22:06] Speaker ?: And that's Ms. Sanford? [01:22:06] Speaker 1: Okay. I believe so. And that's Ms. Sanford? That's fine. That's fine. Okay. [01:22:12] Speaker ?: Mr. Sanford, I'm showing you what's been marked for identification purposes of Defense Exhibit [01:22:12] Speaker 1: 60. Would you look at that for a moment before I ask you questions and just kind of review it? Okay. [01:22:18] Speaker ?: Have you seen that document before? I believe so. [01:22:21] Speaker 1: And that's Mrs. Adelson, meaning Donna Adelson's visa to travel to Vietnam, correct? Yes, ma'am. I'm going to get out of your space so you can have your own space and I'll ask you questions. Okay. Now, you would agree that's the visa that she obtained to go to Vietnam, right? [01:22:58] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [01:22:59] Speaker 1: Okay. And it was good for entry valid. Now, some of it's in Vietnamese and I don't know Vietnamese. You may. No, ma'am. But it has it in English, the same information right near the Vietnamese language. Do you see that? [01:23:14] Speaker 2: Correct. [01:23:15] Speaker 1: Yes, ma'am. And the visa was good for entry valid from November the 13th, 2023, right? That's correct. [01:23:22] Speaker 2: Okay. [01:23:23] Speaker 1: And it was good until November the 2nd of 2024, right? [01:23:28] Speaker 2: If the dates are read right, I would call that February 11th of 2024. [01:23:33] Speaker 1: You know what? I forgot that they do it backwards. They don't have them in the same date or I'm glad you pointed that out to me. So it was until February the 2nd. Yes, ma'am. [01:23:42] Speaker 2: Of 2024. [01:23:43] Speaker 1: Yes, ma'am. Of 2024. And that's the 90 days, I guess, right? [01:23:46] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [01:23:47] Speaker 1: Because it was a 90-day visa. Correct. And according to the visa, it was issued for the purposes of tourism, right? [01:23:55] Speaker 2: If you kind of go down. [01:24:00] Speaker 1: Yes, ma'am. [01:24:01] Speaker 2: I see it now. Okay. [01:24:03] Speaker 1: Tourism. [01:24:04] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [01:24:05] Speaker 1: When the visa was issued, it said it was good for single/multiple entries, right? That's up near the top. Up near the top. [01:24:13] Speaker 2: Good for single/multiple entries. Yes, ma'am. [01:24:19] Speaker 1: And what that means is it's not that she can travel to Vietnam and once she leaves she can't come back, right? It means that she can come and go from Vietnam, right? [01:24:30] Speaker 2: I'm not sure if that's what that means or not. I don't know. You're not familiar with that? [01:24:33] Speaker 1: No, ma'am. Okay. May I approach? [01:24:36] Speaker ?: Thank you. You're welcome. [01:24:39] Speaker 1: So when you get to the airport and you spoke to the FBI agent there, what did you do next? [01:24:59] Speaker 2: Tried to find out what terminal they were at that they were flying out of and trying to get to that area. It's a pretty big airport so we tried to move to that area. [01:25:10] Speaker 1: Okay. When you say we, it's this group that you've talked about, someone from the Sheriff's Office, someone from Customs, and yourself? Probably. [01:25:18] Speaker 2: There might have been three of us. So we had to go through security so that's a lengthy process to get through security to go back. [01:25:24] Speaker 1: Sure. And at some point you got to the gate where they were going to be? [01:25:27] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [01:25:28] Speaker 1: And did you sit down somewhere? [01:25:30] Speaker 2: No, I don't believe I sat down. [01:25:33] Speaker 1: Did anybody else sit down? [01:25:34] Speaker 2: I don't recall. [01:25:35] Speaker 1: So you all just kind of stood up around the area of the gate where they were going to leave? [01:25:40] Speaker 2: I believe so. [01:25:41] Speaker 1: Okay. And you knew what Donna Adelson looked like, right? Yes, ma'am. You know what her husband looked like, Harvey, right? [01:25:46] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [01:25:47] Speaker 1: And you're there, you're going to obviously recognize them if they're in the general vicinity of the gate, right? [01:25:53] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [01:25:54] Speaker 1: Okay. And at some point you saw them? [01:25:57] Speaker 2: Correct. [01:25:58] Speaker 1: Okay. I forgot to ask you this. So the warrant was actually obtained somewhere between five and six. Well, let me say it this way. It was obtained around five. It was entered, but you learned about it around six o'clock, I think you previously said. I believe so. [01:26:12] Speaker 2: About the time I was getting to the airport is when I found out it was obtained. Okay. [01:26:16] Speaker 1: And when you travel back to where the gate is and you all go together, you said you didn't sit. Where were you with respect to the jetway? [01:26:25] Speaker 2: We were down a little ways. It's hard to describe how it's set up. There's different gates and we were across the, and there's a middle section too. So we were on the backside. I didn't know if they knew what I looked like. I figured they did because they had seen trials and we knew that they watched the trials. So I figured they knew what I looked like. So I stayed away. [01:26:45] Speaker 1: Did you stay away from the other folks who were participating like off by yourself? [01:26:49] Speaker 2: No, not necessarily. [01:26:51] Speaker 1: All kind of together? [01:26:53] Speaker 2: A couple of us were together. [01:26:55] Speaker 1: Okay. I don't do a lot of travel. So you feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. But when I have gone on the airplane, was this airport like you get into a section? I forget what they call them. Like the gates are like different concourses, right? [01:27:09] Speaker 2: It was a terminal. Terminal. It was a concourse. Yeah, either way. [01:27:13] Speaker 1: Okay, either way. So a terminal. And when you walk down the terminal, are you describing that basically there's a walkway down to the end of the terminal, right? Like a kind of a middle row, if you will. [01:27:24] Speaker 2: To the terminal where they're going to get on the plane, you mean? Yes. [01:27:28] Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I don't know the terminology. But when you're walking down towards the gate, there will be gates on one side and gates on the opposite side. Correct. Correct. [01:27:37] Speaker 2: And there's some other structures in the middle of this airport in between the gates. So you had some walls, you had some little stores. So it wasn't just like a big open concourse. Right. [01:27:46] Speaker 1: Right. Little food shops along the way and magazines and all that kind of stuff. Yes. But the layout is basically you've got a walkway with gates on each side. [01:27:56] Speaker 2: Correct. [01:27:57] Speaker 1: Okay. And so I just want to make sure I understood your testimony. Their gate would have been on the left or the right. If you don't remember, it doesn't matter. [01:28:04] Speaker 2: I don't recall. [01:28:05] Speaker 1: You don't recall. But your testimony is you kind of went opposite of where their gate was, where you could monitor them, but not be where they could see you necessarily. [01:28:14] Speaker 2: Pretty much, yes. I wasn't really monitoring them. Somebody else was. [01:28:18] Speaker 1: Okay. Did you see them? I did. Okay. And when you saw them, were they seated waiting for the flight? I believe so. [01:28:26] Speaker 2: I mean, the flight. Seated or standing, one of the two. But they were amongst the other passengers waiting to get on the plane in that area. [01:28:33] Speaker 1: Okay. The flight wasn't scheduled to take off until 8:10 PM, right? That sounds correct. Okay. So you were there for a couple of hours and the warrants issued, correct? [01:28:42] Speaker 2: No, I didn't get there until about 6:00, 6:30. So that's when I first arrived at the airport. By the time I got back there, they were pretty close to, by the time I got through security, got everything, got back there. It was pretty close to boarding time. Pretty close to boarding time? [01:28:56] Speaker 1: Yes, ma'am. [01:28:57] Speaker 2: But you saw them? I did. [01:28:59] Speaker 1: And were the other people who were participating, were they aware of what Mrs. Adelson looked like and her husband? [01:29:05] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. Okay. [01:29:07] Speaker 1: They were at this point. Okay. Was everybody in plain clothes? [01:29:10] Speaker 2: Not everybody. [01:29:11] Speaker 1: Who was not in plain clothes? [01:29:13] Speaker 2: The uniformed officers from Miami-Dade. [01:29:15] Speaker 1: Was the officer standing with you all? [01:29:17] Speaker 2: I believe he might have been. One of them was. Okay. [01:29:20] Speaker 1: Are you pretty sure from where you are that she would not have been able to see this group of men? One of them with, I guess, insignia and gun and belt and all that. You're pretty sure that they wouldn't have been able to see you? [01:29:31] Speaker 2: Absolutely. Yeah. There was no way they could see us where we were standing. [01:29:34] Speaker 1: Okay. How long did you observe them before they started boarding the flight? [01:29:39] Speaker 2: Guestimating maybe 20 minutes. Okay. [01:29:42] Speaker 1: And what do you recall them having with them? [01:29:46] Speaker 2: Some small carry-on items I don't recall. Okay. [01:29:52] Speaker 1: And they were dressed in normal clothes, right? Correct. They weren't disguised in any way? No. No wigs, hats, glasses? No. Okay. [01:30:09] Speaker ?: I'm sorry. What was your answer? How long you were there? You saw them for how long? [01:30:13] Speaker 1: Maybe 20 minutes. I don't recall. Okay. Could have been longer. Did you all travel to that vicinity together? [01:30:18] Speaker 2: All of us? Yes, sir. No. [01:30:21] Speaker 1: I believe it was me and the, me and maybe the uniformed officers. I think the, um, customs officers were already there. [01:30:24] Speaker ?: Okay. [01:30:25] Speaker 2: Before we got there. Okay. I believe it was me and the, me and maybe the uniformed officers. I think the, um, customs officers were already there. Okay. Before we got there. [01:30:39] Speaker 1: Okay. [01:30:40] Speaker 2: There's only like three or four of us that walked together down there. [01:30:42] Speaker 1: So somebody was already at the gate? I believe so. Yes, ma'am. Okay. All right. So they had a couple of carry on backs, right? Yes, ma'am. And, um, I'm not, I might get the terminology wrong again, but, uh, when you go, uh, when they call you up and say, okay, you know, sections, whatever you can board the flight, old people, babies, all that stuff, right? They have different calling periods. Is that what you're saying? Sure. Okay. Calling boarding for the flight. At some point, Mrs. Adelson and her husband got in the line to board the flight. Is that right? That's correct. And you observed that, right? [01:31:17] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [01:31:18] Speaker 1: Okay. And, uh, they got in the line and then they, at some point, I don't know where, what it's called, but they have to show their phone ticket or a physical ticket to somebody to make sure they can go on. Right? [01:31:29] Speaker 2: I think they scan it maybe. Yes, ma'am. [01:31:31] Speaker 1: Okay. So that's where you kind of, I call it like a little check in place to make sure you got your ticket. I don't know what it's called, but then after you've shown your ticket, they let you by to board the plane. Yes, ma'am. And the area between where they give their ticket and, or show their ticket and before they board the plane, is that what you're referring to? Is it jet way? Is that what you said? [01:31:53] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. After you scan the ticket in this particular airport, they're all different. Um, this particular airport, they scan their tickets and they walk through these sliding glass doors and it's like a tunnel that you walk down to go to the plane inside that sliding glass doors where the officers were standing waiting. The plainclothes customs officers were inside of that. [01:32:12] Speaker 1: Okay. And that's where they were when, when Mrs. Adelson was arrested. [01:32:16] Speaker 2: Correct. [01:32:17] Speaker 1: Yeah. She went past the ticket into the jetway. [01:32:20] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [01:32:21] Speaker 1: Not, not actually get on the plane. No, ma'am. Uh, you had the warrant before they got in line, right? Correct. Uh, and you watched them for however many minutes before they got called up to put their ticket in, right? Yes, ma'am. [01:32:33] Speaker 2: I wanted to get them not in a crowd of people, right in the middle of all these people. I wanted to get them kind of separated off and after they threw the jetway by themselves over there. [01:32:43] Speaker 1: Well, before they started, I mean, when they got in line, then there are a bunch of people right there with them, right? There were people there with them, right? [01:32:48] Speaker 2: There were people there with them the whole time. There were people sitting around them. Right. Because it's very narrow seating where they're sitting and they were right in the middle of all these people. And then they got in line with all these people. Once they go one at a time, people are going to the plane. Once they went through, those officers just stopped them, pulled them to the side away from the line and just began speaking with them. [01:33:06] Speaker 1: But when they go through the line, there's a line of people behind them going to get on the plane, right? That's correct. So when they go through, the glass doors are going to open and that's where you're going to take her into custody? Yes, off to the side. [01:33:17] Speaker 2: Yes, past them where they're still getting on the plane, but we're past them. [01:33:21] Speaker 1: Well, people are getting on the plane. They're coming by through the same general vicinity of where you took her into custody. [01:33:26] Speaker 2: Sure. [01:33:27] Speaker 1: And those same people were out there while you sat there for however many minutes watching her. Were you going to take her into custody there too, right? Sure. [01:33:34] Speaker 2: But you didn't. [01:33:35] Speaker 1: You didn't tell she went through the little gate and then you arrested her. [01:33:37] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [01:33:38] Speaker 1: And when she was taken into custody, her husband was standing there with her, right? Correct. And you went through the little process that you went through and you said they had two carry on bags, right? I believe so. In your investigation, you learned that with the two carry on bags, they had maybe some additional luggage, right? Yes, ma'am. [01:33:57] Speaker 2: Checked luggage. Right. [01:33:59] Speaker 1: A couple of pieces, right? Correct. And in those couple of pieces, they had just regular clothing, right? [01:34:06] Speaker 2: I assume. Yes. [01:34:08] Speaker 1: They didn't show up with boxes full of clothes. No. Okay. [01:34:11] Speaker 2: Well, I never saw the checked on luggage. I have no idea how much they checked. [01:34:16] Speaker 1: Okay. So in your investigation, you didn't learn that? [01:34:19] Speaker 2: In my investigation, learn what? [01:34:21] Speaker 1: That they only had two checked bags and two carry-ons. No. Okay. Um, she obviously had her cell phone and you've testified that you got that from her. Yes, ma'am. You described this little interaction before she'd give you the cell phone. She didn't fight with you, did she? Like she wasn't swinging on you. [01:34:36] Speaker 2: She didn't try to hit me. [01:34:37] Speaker 1: No, ma'am. You didn't have to take her to the ground and grab it out of her hands. [01:34:40] Speaker 2: No, ma'am. [01:34:41] Speaker 1: I was very gentle. [01:34:42] Speaker 2: Okay. [01:34:43] Speaker 1: You got the phone? Yes, ma'am. Okay. And the phone is part of the evidence of what you went on and somebody downloaded and looked to see what was on it, right? [01:34:49] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [01:34:50] Speaker 1: Okay. And her husband, Harvey, he had some credit cards and a little bit of cash, right? [01:35:00] Speaker 2: Mr. Adelson, I didn't search Mr. Adelson. [01:35:03] Speaker 1: Okay. Did Mrs. Adelson have a bunch of cash on her? I don't know. [01:35:07] Speaker 2: I didn't search her. [01:35:08] Speaker 1: Okay. So you're not aware of what they got when she was taken into custody? [01:35:12] Speaker 2: No. [01:35:13] Speaker 1: Okay. I need to ask counsel something about your ruling judge. Could I just one moment? [01:35:27] Speaker 3: Please a break. [01:35:44] Speaker ?: I need to ask counsel something about your ruling judge. I need to ask counsel something about your ruling judge. I need to ask counsel something about your ruling judge. I need to ask counsel something about your ruling judge. I need to ask counsel something about your ruling judge. I need to ask counsel something about your ruling judge. I need to ask counsel something about your ruling judge. I need to ask counsel something about your ruling judge. I need to ask counsel something about your ruling judge. I need to ask counsel something about your ruling judge. I need to ask counsel something about your ruling judge. I need to ask counsel something about your ruling judge. I need to ask counsel something about your ruling judge. I need to ask counsel something about your ruling judge. I need to ask counsel something about your ruling judge. I need to ask counsel something about your ruling judge. I need to ask counsel something about your ruling judge. I need to ask counsel something about your ruling judge. I need to ask counsel something about your ruling judge. I need to ask counsel something about your ruling judge. I need to ask counsel something about your ruling judge. I need to ask counsel something about your ruling judge. I need to ask counsel something about your ruling judge. I need to ask counsel something about your ruling judge. I need to ask counsel something about your ruling judge. I need to ask counsel something about your ruling judge. I need to ask counsel something about your ruling judge. I need to ask counsel something about your ruling judge. I need to ask counsel something about your ruling judge. I need to ask counsel something about your ruling judge. I need to ask counsel something about your ruling judge. I need to ask counsel something about your ruling judge. I need to ask counsel something about your ruling judge. [01:36:35] Speaker 3: I need to ask counsel something about your ruling judge. I need to ask counsel something about your ruling judge. [01:36:39] Speaker ?: I need to ask counsel something about your ruling judge. I need to ask counsel something about your ruling judge. I need to ask counsel something about your ruling judge. I need to ask counsel something about your ruling judge. I need to ask counsel something about your ruling judge. I need to ask counsel something about your ruling judge. I need to ask counsel something about your ruling judge. I need to ask counsel something about your ruling judge. I need to ask counsel something about your ruling judge. I need to ask counsel something about your ruling judge. I need to ask counsel something about your ruling judge. I need to ask counsel something about your ruling judge. I need to ask counsel something about your ruling judge. I need to ask counsel something about your ruling judge. I need to ask counsel something about your ruling judge. I need to ask counsel something about your ruling judge. I need to ask counsel something about your ruling judge. I need to ask counsel what your ruling judge. I need to ask counsel anything about your ruling judge. I need to ask counsel something about your ruling judge. [01:37:07] Speaker 3: I need to ask counsel something about your ruling judge. I need to ask counsel something about your ruling judge. I'll bring the jurors back in in the next five minutes. If anyone needs to use the restroom, stretch your legs, please do so now. Please be seated. We may continue with your examination. [01:37:38] Speaker 1: Thank you, Your Honor. I just have a few more questions. Agent Sanford, these questions I'm not asking for your belief or your opinion. I'm asking for direct evidence, okay? Okay. In your investigation, you found no direct connection between Donna Adelson and Sigfredo Garcia, correct? Correct. [01:38:03] Speaker ?: And you found no direct connection between Donna Adelson and Sigfredo Garcia, correct? [01:38:04] Speaker 2: Correct. [01:38:05] Speaker 1: And Katie McBanawha has testified that, I'm going to ask you a question but I'm leading up to it. Katie McBanawha has testified that she met Donna Adelson one time when she had a dental appointment at Adelson Institute and they exchanged greetings at the front desk. And without that, there's no direct connection between Katie McBanawha and Donna Adelson, is there? [01:38:35] Speaker 2: Correct. [01:38:36] Speaker 1: You have emails, voice messages, text messages, and later recorded calls. Direct evidence on any of those things. Did Donna Adelson ever say that she wanted Danny Markell to be killed? [01:38:52] Speaker 2: Those exact words? [01:38:54] Speaker 1: Those words. Did she say she wants him killed? [01:38:57] Speaker 2: No. [01:38:58] Speaker 1: Did she say she was planning to have him killed? [01:39:00] Speaker 2: No. [01:39:01] Speaker 1: Did she say she was hiring to have him killed? No. Someone to go and kill him? [01:39:05] Speaker 2: No. [01:39:06] Speaker 1: Did you say that she intended that he'd be killed? [01:39:09] Speaker 2: No, she did not say that. [01:39:11] Speaker 1: I don't have any further questions.