About this transcript: This is a full AI-generated transcript of Lindsay Clancy's Defense Begins Its First Cross-Examination of the Trial — Pt 10 from Justice Is A Process!!!!, published July 30, 2026. The transcript contains 13,393 words with timestamps and was generated using Whisper AI.
"Your Honor, for the purpose of the record, we return back to the trial of Kamala versus Lindsay Clancy. All parties are present, including the defendant and including the 18 jurors. All right. Well, members of the jury, thank you for your patience with us. What we're now going to do at this point..."
[00:00:00] Speaker 1: Your Honor, for the purpose of the record, we return back to the trial of Kamala versus Lindsay Clancy. All parties are present, including the defendant and including the 18 jurors.
[00:00:09] Speaker 2: All right. Well, members of the jury, thank you for your patience with us. What we're now going to do at this point is we're going to return to the evidence. We have witness Patrick Clancy, who testified earlier, is now being recalled, as I said, for the purpose of cross-examination. Okay. All right, counsel? Thank you, Judge.
[00:00:30] Speaker 3: Good afternoon, Mr. Clancy. You and I have certainly met before, correct?
[00:00:41] Patrick Clancy: Correct.
[00:00:42] Speaker 3: Would you agree with me that I went with you and your brothers and maybe some other people into your home very shortly after the state police finished with searching and removing what they felt was evidence from the home?
[00:00:57] Patrick Clancy: Yes.
[00:00:58] Speaker 3: You recall that I went into different rooms and looked at different things, and I think I took some photographs and things of that nature. Do you remember that?
[00:01:08] Patrick Clancy: Yeah.
[00:01:10] Speaker 3: So, if I may, you met Lindsay back when she was in school, or was she working as a nurse?
[00:01:22] Patrick Clancy: She was at the MGH Institute. She was at the MGH Institute.
[00:01:24] Speaker 3: And the MGH Institute is like Mass General Hospital nursing program, correct? Correct. She had some kind of like an accelerated course or something.
[00:01:33] Patrick Clancy: Yeah.
[00:01:34] Speaker 3: Had a double major.
[00:01:36] Patrick Clancy: Yeah.
[00:01:36] Speaker 3: She was a very good student.
[00:01:38] Patrick Clancy: She was, yeah.
[00:01:39] Speaker 3: And she, at a relatively young age, got her RN and was a nurse at Mass General, correct?
[00:01:46] Patrick Clancy: Correct.
[00:01:48] Speaker 3: And at Mass General, she was a, they call it L&D, a labor and delivery nurse. Is that it?
[00:01:55] Patrick Clancy: Yeah.
[00:01:57] Speaker 3: Do you remember how many years she worked in Mass General?
[00:02:02] Patrick Clancy: I think she started in 2014.
[00:02:05] Speaker 3: Do you remember when she graduated from nursing school?
[00:02:09] Patrick Clancy: Six months earlier.
[00:02:10] Speaker 3: And were you guys in a relationship then?
[00:02:14] Patrick Clancy: We were, yeah.
[00:02:15] Speaker 3: And had you started living together in Southie, or was that before that?
[00:02:19] Patrick Clancy: Not in Southie. We didn't live together in Southie. We lived together in Quincy.
[00:02:23] Speaker ?: Quincy. Okay.
[00:02:25] Speaker 3: Tell us a little bit about, you know, Lindsay, obviously, I remember the most. How did she like being a nurse?
[00:02:33] Patrick Clancy: She loved it. I think it was her dream.
[00:02:36] Speaker 3: Did you say that she enjoyed her work and helping people?
[00:02:40] Patrick Clancy: Definitely, yeah.
[00:02:42] Speaker 3: So there's been some commentary here from the government about that she was anxious because she had to go back to work, or she didn't want to go to work, she was lazy, or whatever the case may be. Objection.
[00:02:53] Speaker 2: This is sustained, if you could rephrase that.
[00:02:56] Speaker 3: All right, so I'll strike lazy. That she didn't want to go back to work, but I believe you said in answer to the DA there was a reason that you could see that she was anxious about going back to work, correct?
[00:03:09] Patrick Clancy: Correct.
[00:03:10] Speaker 3: Now, was she anxious about going back to work, to your knowledge, because she just didn't want to work?
[00:03:17] Patrick Clancy: No.
[00:03:17] Speaker 3: What was the reason?
[00:03:19] Patrick Clancy: She struggled to be away from our kids at a young age.
[00:03:23] Speaker 3: So when you guys ultimately moved to Doctuary, did you have children then?
[00:03:29] Patrick Clancy: Yeah.
[00:03:31] Speaker 3: And as the years went by, you obviously had more children. Ultimately, you got three children, correct?
[00:03:36] Patrick Clancy: Yes.
[00:03:37] Speaker 3: You told us about her birth with Cora.
[00:03:41] Patrick Clancy: Yeah.
[00:03:42] Speaker 3: Cora, it was a bit of a rough birth. Is that right?
[00:03:47] Patrick Clancy: Yeah.
[00:03:48] Speaker ?: Yeah.
[00:03:48] Patrick Clancy: She didn't have time to get an epidural, and she bled a lot.
[00:03:53] Speaker 3: Do you, in the years that you lived with Lindsay as boyfriend and girlfriend, fiancées, and then ultimately husband and wife, do you recognize your handwriting?
[00:04:04] Patrick Clancy: I haven't seen it in a long time, but so I'm not sure.
[00:04:09] Speaker 3: Okay. While the counsel's looking at that, is it your understanding, would she take notes or lists and work and home and things of that nature? We would, yeah. Excuse me. I'm going to approach you, sir, with this document and just ask if you can recognize the handwriting.
[00:04:38] Patrick Clancy: Yeah, that looks like her handwriting.
[00:04:40] Speaker 3: Looks like Lindsay's handwriting?
[00:04:42] Patrick Clancy: Yep.
[00:04:43] Speaker 3: So I'm going to run away after this.
[00:04:47] Speaker 2: Any objection?
[00:04:48] Speaker 3: Yes.
[00:04:48] Speaker 2: All right, if I could see the counsel.
[00:04:53] Speaker 3: Can you see that, Mr. Lanson?
[00:05:16] Patrick Clancy: Yeah.
[00:05:18] Speaker 3: Pull it away a little bit. Looking at this, what does it appear to be to you, if you know? Does it appear to be notes of deliveries that she was involved with?
[00:05:29] Patrick Clancy: Yeah.
[00:05:30] Speaker 3: You see the first one? What's the date, if you can read it? I can't.
[00:05:34] Patrick Clancy: It says May 11, 2015.
[00:05:36] Speaker 3: And does that indicate, would that, to your knowledge, be around when she started working as a labor delivery nurse?
[00:05:44] Patrick Clancy: I thought she started a little early, but I'm not sure.
[00:05:48] Speaker 3: You see the name of the little girl that was born on that date that was her first delivery?
[00:05:54] Patrick Clancy: Yeah.
[00:05:54] Speaker 3: What's the name?
[00:05:55] Patrick Clancy: It's Cora.
[00:05:57] Speaker 3: And is that the reason you guys named Cora Cora?
[00:06:02] Patrick Clancy: It was, yeah.
[00:06:10] Speaker 3: Can you tell the jurors, as a husband, living with Lindsay over the years, what kind of a mother was she?
[00:06:23] Patrick Clancy: She was very dedicated. She did everything. She started reading them books at three months, and she made up songs for them. I remember she used to make Green Eggs and Ham for Cora, because she liked that book.
[00:06:45] Speaker 3: Is that one of the Dr. Seuss books?
[00:06:47] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. She brought them to music classes.
[00:06:52] Speaker 3: You're quite the musician yourself, isn't that right?
[00:06:54] Patrick Clancy: I play a few instruments, yeah.
[00:06:56] Speaker 3: You play guitar?
[00:06:57] Patrick Clancy: Yep.
[00:07:00] Speaker 3: In your home, one of the things that appears to be striking is that almost every room, other than maybe a bed, well, actually a bedroom, but was dedicated to children. Would you agree with that?
[00:07:13] Patrick Clancy: Yeah.
[00:07:14] Speaker 3: You didn't have a fancy dining room, right?
[00:07:16] Patrick Clancy: We did not, no.
[00:07:17] Speaker 3: What did you have in the dining room?
[00:07:19] Patrick Clancy: We had the table that I grew up with.
[00:07:22] Speaker 3: How about stuff on the wall, in the different rooms? Did she put things, wall hangings, on the walls for the kids?
[00:07:29] Patrick Clancy: There was a lot of art projects, stickers, things like that.
[00:07:35] Speaker ?: Yeah, okay.
[00:07:35] Speaker 3: Hanging from the wall?
[00:07:38] Patrick Clancy: Yeah.
[00:07:44] Speaker 3: One of the photographs that the government had, was a photograph that, excuse me, you can identify, of course, is this photograph a fair and accurate depiction of one of your rooms?
[00:08:03] Patrick Clancy: Yeah.
[00:08:04] Speaker 3: And what room would that be?
[00:08:05] Patrick Clancy: That's the playroom.
[00:08:07] Speaker 3: I'd offer this room?
[00:08:08] Speaker 2: Any objection?
[00:08:09] Speaker 3: No.
[00:08:09] Speaker 2: All right. That may be admitted.
[00:08:15] Speaker 3: There's some kind of, like, what's this, though it's boxed out window. So are we standing in the kitchen, looking into that room through that boxed out window?
[00:08:35] Patrick Clancy: Yeah.
[00:08:36] Speaker 3: And all those objects, obviously, that are in that room would be kids' toys and things of that nature, right?
[00:08:42] Patrick Clancy: Right.
[00:08:44] Speaker 3: Do you recognize this photograph as being just a sample, or a sampling, of the kids' rooms?
[00:08:56] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. No, which room that was? I think it was Dawson's.
[00:08:59] Speaker 3: Okay. The objection? No.
[00:09:02] Speaker 2: All right. That may be admitted.
[00:09:05] Speaker 3: All right.
[00:09:06] Speaker 2: Thank you.
[00:09:12] Speaker 3: This one here has a bunch of stickers. It's got Bruce Lightyear, or whatever his name is, over to the right. And it's got an alphabet, A, B, C, D, things of that nature, correct?
[00:09:22] Patrick Clancy: It's, yeah, it's Paw Patrol.
[00:09:24] Speaker ?: Okay.
[00:09:26] Speaker 3: And again, following through on that same theme, you recognize this photograph as well being another portion of that wall?
[00:09:33] Patrick Clancy: Yeah.
[00:09:34] Speaker 3: And what are those, decals?
[00:09:36] Patrick Clancy: Yeah, they're just big stickers.
[00:09:38] Speaker ?: Okay.
[00:09:39] Speaker 3: In the interest of time, your honor, I would just say, you also identify this as being one of the kids' walls. Would that be what you were telling us would be art projects?
[00:09:50] Patrick Clancy: Yeah.
[00:09:51] Speaker 3: And they were hanging on the wall?
[00:09:53] Patrick Clancy: Correct.
[00:09:54] Speaker 3: And move on along the wall?
[00:09:56] Patrick Clancy: I think Lindsay did.
[00:09:58] Speaker 3: And would she also take hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of pictures of the kids?
[00:10:04] Patrick Clancy: Yeah.
[00:10:07] Speaker 3: Do you recall her putting together a little collage, saying newborn, one month, two months, three months, four months, and then hanging that on the wall?
[00:10:17] Patrick Clancy: Yeah, she did it for each kid.
[00:10:19] Speaker 3: And which child was that?
[00:10:22] Patrick Clancy: That one's Dawson. Dawson.
[00:10:23] Speaker 3: Did you have occasion to see her interact with Dawson as us?
[00:10:36] Speaker 2: Did you wish to introduce those photographs?
[00:10:38] Speaker ?: Thank you. I appreciate it. These two are the ones.
[00:10:44] Speaker 3: It's 68-61.
[00:10:46] Speaker ?: Okay. Thank you.
[00:10:48] Speaker 3: Can you describe for the jurors her relationship with Dawson? I know he's a little kid, but I mean, to your observation, did she love Dawson?
[00:10:57] Patrick Clancy: She loved Dawson very much.
[00:10:58] Speaker 3: Did she resent him?
[00:11:00] Patrick Clancy: No.
[00:11:11] Speaker 3: You are familiar with, as your husband, Lindsay's, let's say, use of social media, such as Facebook, right?
[00:11:21] Patrick Clancy: Yes.
[00:11:23] Speaker 3: Can you tell us, would you look at her Facebook a lot and took pictures that she would post?
[00:11:28] Patrick Clancy: To be honest, no, not really.
[00:11:30] Speaker 3: Okay. Were you able to identify any of her postings on Facebook?
[00:11:37] Patrick Clancy: Probably.
[00:11:38] Speaker 3: Representative, over the years, over the period of time, I'm going to ask if you can identify this particular Facebook.
[00:11:56] Speaker 5: Madam Chair, if we may approach briefly.
[00:11:58] Speaker 2: Sure. Yeah. Councilor. Thank you.
[00:12:01] Speaker ?: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
[00:12:56] Speaker 3: Mr. Clancy, if I ask a question, and it's difficult, or if you need a break, I'm sure that, you know, if I push too hard, just let me know.
[00:13:17] Speaker ?: Yeah. Right? Yeah. Appreciate it.
[00:13:19] Speaker 3: Okay. So, again, just representative of the Facebook postings that Lindsay would post as the mother of your children, this, for example, would be July of 2018.
[00:13:33] Patrick Clancy: Yep.
[00:13:33] Speaker 3: Can you tell the jurors who that would be?
[00:13:35] Patrick Clancy: That's Cora.
[00:13:36] Speaker 3: Moving forward, say June of 2021. Can you tell us who that?
[00:13:57] Patrick Clancy: That's Cora and Dawson.
[00:13:58] Speaker ?: Okay.
[00:14:03] Speaker 3: Again, the end of July, 2021.
[00:14:08] Patrick Clancy: That's us with Cora and Dawson.
[00:14:14] Speaker 3: August, 2021.
[00:14:17] Patrick Clancy: Dawson.
[00:14:18] Speaker 3: Okay. End of August, 2021.
[00:14:26] Patrick Clancy: That's Cora and Dawson.
[00:14:32] Speaker 3: August, again, of 21.
[00:14:34] Patrick Clancy: That's Cora and Dawson.
[00:14:43] Speaker 3: September 1 of 21.
[00:14:47] Patrick Clancy: That's Cora and Dawson.
[00:14:48] Speaker 3: Is that first day of preschool?
[00:14:50] Patrick Clancy: Yeah.
[00:14:59] Speaker 3: September of 21.
[00:15:04] Patrick Clancy: That's Lindsay and Cora.
[00:15:05] Speaker 3: And do you, was that some kind of like a family fun day, if you recall, when there was like lots of things for kids to get in?
[00:15:12] Patrick Clancy: Yeah.
[00:15:13] Speaker ?: Okay.
[00:15:18] Speaker 3: End of September, 21. Callum.
[00:15:24] Speaker ?: Callum.
[00:15:25] Patrick Clancy: No, that's Dawson.
[00:15:26] Speaker 3: Dawson. Okay. September 21. Callum, was born when? That's right.
[00:15:32] Patrick Clancy: May, 2022.
[00:15:33] Speaker 3: Okay. And Christmas Eve, December 24th of 2021.
[00:15:40] Patrick Clancy: That's Cora's birthday.
[00:15:42] Speaker 3: Okay. And that's her birthday party that year?
[00:15:44] Patrick Clancy: Yeah.
[00:15:45] Speaker 3: Now, that's 2021, right?
[00:15:48] Patrick Clancy: Correct.
[00:15:48] Speaker 3: Fast forward one year, and that would be December, Christmas of 2022, right?
[00:15:56] Patrick Clancy: Right.
[00:15:57] Speaker 3: And was that when you guys had the birthday party for Cora at the trampolines?
[00:16:02] Patrick Clancy: No.
[00:16:03] Speaker 3: When was that?
[00:16:04] Patrick Clancy: I believe it was January 7th.
[00:16:06] Speaker 3: Okay. But that would have been for that particular birthday, right?
[00:16:09] Patrick Clancy: That was for the birthday with friends, because most people weren't available on Christmas Eve.
[00:16:14] Speaker 3: Christmas Eve, right.
[00:16:15] Patrick Clancy: Yep.
[00:16:17] Speaker 3: And then, and down. Again, September 1st of 22. Remember when that was taken?
[00:16:28] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. That's with Callum and Dawson.
[00:16:30] Speaker 3: Was that your yard?
[00:16:32] Patrick Clancy: That's in the backyard.
[00:16:32] Speaker 3: Backyard.
[00:16:33] Speaker ?: Okay.
[00:16:35] Speaker 3: This would have been September of 22, obviously right before 23, right?
[00:16:40] Patrick Clancy: Right. Right.
[00:16:44] Speaker 3: And, again, for this one here, July of 22, can you tell the jurors you guys had a pretty good summer that year?
[00:16:55] Patrick Clancy: It was a good summer. Yeah. That was on Cape Cod.
[00:16:58] Speaker 3: This picture was on Cape Cod?
[00:16:59] Patrick Clancy: Yeah.
[00:17:12] Speaker 3: A couple of points that I wanted to raise, sir, with you. We have an email sent from your, is it Surface Pro? Is that what it's called?
[00:17:28] Patrick Clancy: No, it was my laptop. Yeah.
[00:17:38] Speaker 3: I'm going to approach you, sir, and ask if you can identify this as being an email that you sent.
[00:17:53] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[00:17:54] Speaker ?: Okay.
[00:17:55] Speaker 3: Cut off of that, you're on.
[00:17:57] Speaker 2: Any objection?
[00:17:59] Speaker 5: I'd just like to know the purpose of... Purpose? No, you can approach sidebar.
[00:18:04] Speaker 2: Sure. Yeah. No objection, Your Honor. Okay. Thank you. That may be admitted.
[00:18:19] Speaker 3: Well, while we're waiting for the coffee, let me just move on to something else. Do you recall yesterday the district attorney was asking you a question or stated to you that on December 2nd of 2022, that you and your wife went to a fancy hotel in Boston and she had a massage and you both had a big dinner. Do you recall her asking you that question?
[00:19:10] Patrick Clancy: Yeah.
[00:19:10] Speaker 3: And in fact, would you agree, sir, that you did not, in fact, go to a fancy hotel on December 2nd of 2022, being a Saturday night before your anniversary of the 3rd? You stayed at home, didn't you?
[00:19:23] Patrick Clancy: We did. We stayed at home.
[00:19:24] Speaker 3: And when you were asked that question by the VA, she wanted the inference to be that Lindsay Clancy in December of 22 was so relaxed that she wanted to have a massage and have a big dinner in a hotel. In fact, she was in her bed, in her bedroom that night. Objection. I'm approaching you with what it appears to be from one of the photographs that the district attorney had showed you yesterday with her in a mask. And I believe the glass and the mask, right? And then basically.
[00:20:15] Speaker ?: Yep.
[00:20:19] Speaker 3: Now that photograph, sir, was actually preserved, if you will, on the LaptopPro computer. Isn't that right? Did she send that to you?
[00:20:35] Patrick Clancy: She sent it to my computer.
[00:20:37] Speaker 3: Okay.
[00:20:37] Patrick Clancy: I don't know.
[00:20:38] Speaker 3: And where was she? Do you remember when that picture was taken? Let me show you. That's what the photograph was.
[00:20:46] Patrick Clancy: It looks like they're at the doctor.
[00:20:47] Speaker 3: At the doctor's office.
[00:20:48] Speaker ?: Okay.
[00:20:50] Speaker 3: And can you tell me the date that that picture, right here in the corner of the top, what date was that picture taken? Was that the other computer?
[00:21:02] Patrick Clancy: It's December 2nd.
[00:21:03] Speaker 3: The same date that we're talking about, correct? And what time was the picture sent?
[00:21:10] Patrick Clancy: 12.45 p.m. Okay.
[00:21:12] Speaker ?: So the jury wants to have it.
[00:21:14] Speaker 3: So, when you're dealing with these things on the computers, it's a little hard sometimes to understand what they're depicting. And I'm having a hard time. Hold on. There it is. All right. Right there. You see that there? That's the date that we're talking about, right?
[00:21:42] Patrick Clancy: Right. Just to clarify, though, it looks like that was on an iPhone.
[00:21:46] Speaker 3: Oh, I'm sorry, iPhone. Okay. It was sent to you, though.
[00:21:49] Patrick Clancy: Correct.
[00:21:50] Speaker 3: And it was on December 2nd, the date that the DA was suggesting you were in Boston having massages and dinner, right?
[00:21:57] Speaker 5: Objection. That was December 3rd. All right.
[00:22:01] Speaker 3: It's the jury's memory, though.
[00:22:03] Speaker 2: Yeah. If you can answer that.
[00:22:05] Speaker 3: Do you recall, sir, that she also had sent you the same day for taking a picture of what appears to be Cora's Christmas list, wish list. Is that what that is?
[00:22:25] Patrick Clancy: Yeah.
[00:22:26] Speaker 3: Okay. And if you look at the record on that, that was sent. Yes, you can read that.
[00:22:45] Patrick Clancy: It's December 2nd at 6.13 p.m.
[00:22:48] Speaker 3: 6.13 p.m. And then finally, if you look at the metadata that is apparently buried in the photograph, it gives latitude and longitude of where the photograph was taken. Is that right? If you're familiar with metadata, I would imagine. There's no way you can't do this.
[00:23:12] Speaker ?: Use the tape. Use the tape.
[00:23:16] Patrick Clancy: The tape on the thing tells you where to put the...
[00:23:19] Speaker ?: Oh, thank you.
[00:23:22] Patrick Clancy: Yeah, that's our address.
[00:23:24] Speaker 3: Okay. And that would be the metadata with the latitude and the longitude and shows you where these photos were taken, correct?
[00:23:31] Patrick Clancy: Correct.
[00:23:32] Speaker 3: About the news, Your Honor.
[00:23:35] Speaker 2: So I think we had Exhibit 76. They're making a copy of that. Do you want to mark that? I don't know if we marked that yet. That was the earlier one, just so everybody could keep this straight. And this latest email would be Exhibit 77.
[00:23:58] Speaker 3: That would be the letter, the email.
[00:24:01] Speaker ?: The one that was just caught me.
[00:24:02] Speaker 3: Yeah, the email right here.
[00:24:11] Speaker ?: Is it two pages?
[00:24:13] Speaker 3: Yes.
[00:24:15] Speaker 1: Exhibit 76 and 77.
[00:24:17] Speaker ?: Okay.
[00:24:18] Speaker 3: Thank you. Now, Sir, Exhibit 76 is an email from you to, and we will kind of delete the people that are on the email, if I may, Your Honor. Yes, we mark it as an exhibit. Let me approach you. Does it indicate the date and the time? At the very top, you sent that email to your staff members.
[00:24:51] Patrick Clancy: It does. Yep.
[00:24:53] Speaker 3: The color is what the date was?
[00:24:56] Patrick Clancy: It's January 24th at 524.
[00:24:59] Speaker 3: And that was sent from your Surface Pro?
[00:25:03] Patrick Clancy: I don't know, actually. It could have been sent from my iPhone.
[00:25:06] Speaker ?: Put it off of this one.
[00:25:08] Speaker 3: How are you doing? Yep.
[00:25:09] Speaker 2: That would be Exhibit 76.
[00:25:21] Speaker 3: Now, when was Callan born?
[00:25:26] Patrick Clancy: May 26, 2022.
[00:25:28] Speaker 3: My memory serves that it was a good birth. It was not an easy birth, but I mean, there were no complications?
[00:25:33] Patrick Clancy: There were no complications.
[00:25:34] Speaker 3: And were both of you very happy with Callan being born healthy?
[00:25:38] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. Yeah, we felt very lucky.
[00:25:40] Speaker 3: And then in that summer of 22, you had one of the best summers that you've had, right? Yeah. What happened in September, October of 2022?
[00:25:56] Patrick Clancy: Lindsay's mental health started to deteriorate.
[00:25:59] Speaker 3: And when you say that, sir, what is it that you, as your husband, observed?
[00:26:03] Patrick Clancy: Just increased stress and anxiety.
[00:26:07] Speaker 3: And did she, as a result of that, go to see or reach out for help to see someone?
[00:26:14] Patrick Clancy: Yes.
[00:26:14] Speaker 3: And who was that?
[00:26:16] Patrick Clancy: I believe it was Jennifer Tufts.
[00:26:18] Speaker 3: Now, Jennifer Tufts is a psychiatrist?
[00:26:21] Patrick Clancy: Yeah.
[00:26:22] Speaker 3: And where was she located?
[00:26:25] Patrick Clancy: I never went to her office. Somewhere on the South Shore.
[00:26:30] Speaker 3: Do you remember when Lindsay went to see Jennifer Tufts?
[00:26:35] Patrick Clancy: I don't remember the exact date. I think it was sometime in September. I wasn't really involved at the beginning of Jennifer Tufts.
[00:26:45] Speaker 3: Do you recall that the difficulties or the troubles, so to speak, began in the end of September into October of 22? Yeah, it was pretty gradual.
[00:27:04] Patrick Clancy: Yeah, it was pretty gradual.
[00:27:06] Speaker 3: But do you remember when the DA asked you yesterday whether or not you used your computer to Google suicide in, I think it was August of 22? Do you remember her asking you that question?
[00:27:21] Patrick Clancy: Yes.
[00:27:23] Speaker 3: And do you remember your response?
[00:27:29] Patrick Clancy: No, honestly.
[00:27:30] Speaker 3: You didn't Google that, did you?
[00:27:32] Patrick Clancy: I don't think I did, no.
[00:27:33] Speaker 3: No. But I'm going to show you, sir, a web history of your computer. Have in mind that the question was asked of you as to whether or not in August of 22 you Googled suicide and you responded no, right?
[00:27:50] Patrick Clancy: Correct.
[00:27:51] Speaker 3: The inference being, I guess, that back in August of 22, she wouldn't Google it. Apparently, right?
[00:27:56] Patrick Clancy: Sure.
[00:27:57] Speaker 3: Do you know a guy named Tim Hall?
[00:28:01] Patrick Clancy: I think you mean Tom Hall?
[00:28:02] Speaker 3: Yeah, Tom Hall. My apologies. Who's Tom Hall?
[00:28:05] Patrick Clancy: He's a musical artist.
[00:28:08] Speaker 3: He's a what artist?
[00:28:09] Patrick Clancy: Like a musical, like a country artist.
[00:28:11] Speaker 3: Country? Is he like a guitar player, yeah, a singer?
[00:28:14] Patrick Clancy: Yeah, was.
[00:28:16] Speaker 3: When you say was, what happened to him?
[00:28:19] Patrick Clancy: He committed suicide.
[00:28:21] Speaker 3: And I'm going to show you, sir, your Surface Pro records back in August of 22. Do you recall Googling the name Tom Hall so you could access one of his new albums and new records?
[00:28:43] Patrick Clancy: I do remember briefly listening to Tom Hall's music.
[00:28:47] Speaker 3: Now, you've never seen, I haven't, you haven't seen this document before, correct?
[00:28:52] Patrick Clancy: Correct.
[00:28:53] Speaker 3: And this would be, and this would be, I'm sure you're probably familiar with it, when you get a phone dump or a computer records dump, you get a print out of all the sites that somebody would go on Google, Wikipedia, things like that.
[00:29:05] Patrick Clancy: Right.
[00:29:06] Speaker 3: So if you can look to the right, down a little bit, and you see, I think it says Tom Hall.
[00:29:13] Patrick Clancy: Yeah.
[00:29:13] Speaker 3: What does it say on Tom Hall?
[00:29:18] Patrick Clancy: It says his Wikipedia page. Yep.
[00:29:22] Speaker 3: Let me see here. So that shows you when somebody Googles, and then it goes to Wikipedia, and you see where up above it says suicide methods? Yeah. Now, you didn't, as you said to the DA, you didn't Google suicide methods, right?
[00:30:03] Patrick Clancy: I didn't Google suicide methods, no.
[00:30:05] Speaker 3: But in fact, sir, when you Googled Tom Hall, it took you to the Wikipedia page, and it said that he died, right?
[00:30:12] Patrick Clancy: He did, yeah.
[00:30:13] Speaker 3: And then you clicked on the Wikipedia page, and then it went into a hyperlink. You know what a hyperlink is? I imagine you do hyperlink.
[00:30:21] Patrick Clancy: Yeah.
[00:30:21] Speaker 3: What is a hyperlink, just so I know?
[00:30:23] Patrick Clancy: So like in Wikipedia, it would be a word that's highlighted in blue, and it goes to a website.
[00:30:30] Speaker 3: Okay. So if I suggest to you, sir, that as you move down on your searches that afternoon, that you were looking at Tom Hall, that it brought you to ways to commit suicide, suicide, Tom Hall, Google search again, Tom Hall, all on that date at the same time. And you were just looking to see about the guy because he killed himself, right?
[00:31:00] Patrick Clancy: Yeah, I think so. Yeah.
[00:31:02] Speaker 3: I'd offer this one.
[00:31:03] Patrick Clancy: Any objection?
[00:31:05] Speaker 5: Can I just see the packet?
[00:31:06] Patrick Clancy: All right.
[00:31:10] Speaker 3: Again, your honor, I got that discovery from the DA, so that's...
[00:31:15] Speaker 5: Well, it's an email from his expert about us.
[00:31:16] Speaker 2: Well, just take a look at it, and we'll kind of go from there. I want to say.
[00:31:25] Speaker 3: Well, she's looking at that. I just asked her, what is a URL? What does that mean? Hold on a second.
[00:31:54] Speaker 2: All right, she gets a chance to finish.
[00:32:00] Speaker 5: Yes, I would object.
[00:32:01] Speaker 2: All right, if I can see, counsel.
[00:32:14] Speaker 3: So while that's being marked Exhibit E for ID, basically, that would at least refresh your memory, sir, that, in fact, inadvertently, that you touched the Wikipedia thing for suicide, but it was for Tom Hall, the singer, right? Sounds like that was the case. Okay. Do you recall what medication Lindsay was put on by Dr. Tufts?
[00:32:44] Patrick Clancy: She started with Zoloft.
[00:32:47] Speaker 3: Now, counsel had asked you about whether or not Lindsay was on Zoloft or any SSRI, antidepressant medication, in the past. Do you remember that question?
[00:32:59] Patrick Clancy: Yeah.
[00:32:59] Speaker 3: Do you remember her asking about that you were having a conversation with her, and she said that she was going on Zoloft, and that she had already been to Tufts, or was it Tufts that she got the script from? Correct. Okay. She told you that, right? Yeah. She didn't hide that from you, right?
[00:33:17] Speaker ?: No.
[00:33:18] Speaker 3: And it was, you were at a wedding, is that right? You were walking down the street, the two of you together, like at the end of the night, and she basically told you that she had to use the meds.
[00:33:28] Patrick Clancy: It was earlier in the day. It was before the wedding, but yeah.
[00:33:31] Speaker 3: Okay. And do you recall how, to your observation, how dedicated was she to taking her medications as instructed by the numerous doctors that she ultimately saw?
[00:33:47] Patrick Clancy: She always took them as instructed.
[00:33:51] Speaker 3: Do you remember, did she in fact have a diary that she kept of the milligrams, the type of medication, the date that she took the medication, and what, if any, reactions that she had to it? Do you recall that?
[00:34:13] Patrick Clancy: Yeah.
[00:34:14] Speaker 3: And do you remember where that was kept? Did she keep it in any particular place?
[00:34:18] Patrick Clancy: I think she kept it in the kitchen.
[00:34:19] Speaker 3: In the kitchen. So I'm going to show you a photograph that the state police took in your house. Is this a fair and accurate picture, a picture of your kitchen? Yeah. So, that kind of shows a bunch of books that are in a, like a cabinet or something, right? Right. I'm going to show you this enlarged spine, if you will, of a book. Can I ask if you ever saw that before?
[00:35:06] Patrick Clancy: I don't recall seeing this.
[00:35:09] Speaker 3: Would you agree, sir, would you agree, sir, that this book is, in fact, the same book, the same coloring, that was in the bunch of books in your kitchen?
[00:35:20] Patrick Clancy: Yeah.
[00:35:20] Speaker 3: You know, this book, you see what the caption of the book is. And I'm going to approach you with this document, sir, which would be a number of pages from the book, the cover of the book, and the inside of the book. I just started, you've never seen that before?
[00:36:02] Patrick Clancy: I don't recall seeing this. Thank you.
[00:36:15] Speaker 3: So, with that on the stand, Your Honor, I will not offer this at this time.
[00:36:24] Speaker 2: Hold on. Council Koma, if you could, Ms. Reagan, if you could show what it is that you've done.
[00:36:30] Speaker 5: I'm sorry, you said you're not offering it?
[00:36:31] Speaker 3: Well, they don't know what the foundation says.
[00:36:33] Speaker 5: Okay.
[00:36:34] Speaker 2: All right. Any objection?
[00:36:38] Speaker 5: No.
[00:36:38] Speaker 2: Okay.
[00:36:41] Speaker 3: So, can I put it in? Yes. Okay, great. Thank you.
[00:36:44] Speaker 5: No objection to him not offering it.
[00:36:48] Speaker ?: All right.
[00:36:48] Speaker 5: If I could just look at it.
[00:36:50] Speaker 2: Why don't we do this? Why doesn't everybody come over here with that, and we can kind of figure out where we go? Okay, that may be a difference.
[00:36:59] Speaker 3: Who was the next doctor, if you recall, that Lindsay went to consult with?
[00:37:20] Patrick Clancy: Julie Paul.
[00:37:22] Speaker 3: And is this a doctor or a nurse practitioner?
[00:37:26] Patrick Clancy: I don't remember what Julie Paul is. It was very brief.
[00:37:29] Speaker 3: Okay. Now, is it fair to say that Julie Paul was at South Shore? Yeah.
[00:37:35] Patrick Clancy: Correct.
[00:37:36] Speaker 3: And Julie Paul was a friend of your mother's. Is that right?
[00:37:41] Patrick Clancy: Yeah, I think they were acquaintances, yeah.
[00:37:43] Speaker 3: And your mother was a nurse also at South Shore Hospital?
[00:37:46] Patrick Clancy: In L&D, yeah.
[00:37:48] Speaker 3: L&D, labor and delivery, same thing. Okay. And your mother was good enough to refer Lindsay to this person to consult with, right?
[00:37:57] Patrick Clancy: Yeah, I don't think it was a formal referral. I think she just said, this is a specialist that you might want to talk with.
[00:38:03] Speaker 3: All right. And did she go to see the specialist?
[00:38:06] Patrick Clancy: Yeah.
[00:38:07] Speaker 3: And did you go with her or was this a...
[00:38:09] Patrick Clancy: No, I never met Julie Paul.
[00:38:10] Speaker 3: I should talk myself up. Were these like in-person meetings or are they like, what do you call them, Zoom meetings?
[00:38:16] Patrick Clancy: Most of the meetings were Zoom. The only in-person that I'm aware of was with Rebecca Gelata.
[00:38:22] Speaker 3: Rebecca Gelata. Okay. And that was because you insisted on it, right?
[00:38:26] Patrick Clancy: I thought it was warranted at that time, yeah.
[00:38:29] Speaker 3: Right. Because you were pretty much at your wit's end with the 15-minute Zooms and you wanted to sit down eyeball to eyeball and talk to this person, right?
[00:38:38] Patrick Clancy: I hadn't attended any prior to that. I just wanted to get clarification. I wanted to see if we could get on the same page.
[00:38:46] Speaker 3: All right. So now, Lindsay's on Zoloft from Dr. Tufts, the psychiatrist, correct? Correct. And then that runs into when, when you guys, she goes to see Nurse Paul.
[00:39:04] Patrick Clancy: Can you clarify?
[00:39:05] Speaker 3: What was it?
[00:39:06] Patrick Clancy: Can you clarify what you're asking?
[00:39:08] Speaker 3: Yeah. What month? When was it that she saw Nurse Paul?
[00:39:12] Patrick Clancy: Maybe October, but I'm not sure.
[00:39:14] Speaker ?: Okay.
[00:39:14] Speaker 3: When she saw Nurse Paul, do you remember where she saw Nurse Paul or was it a video thing?
[00:39:20] Patrick Clancy: I don't know. I wasn't involved.
[00:39:21] Speaker 3: Okay. Did Nurse Paul prescribe medication to her?
[00:39:24] Patrick Clancy: A lot if he knows.
[00:39:30] Speaker 3: I don't know off the top of my head. All right. Do you recall whether or not, to your opinion, that she had any reactions to the Zoloft that she had been placed on by Dr. Tufts? I don't know any observations that were made. Right. So it's not guesswork, it's observations, anything you saw and observed.
[00:39:53] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. It seemed to align with her insomnia symptoms.
[00:39:58] Speaker 3: Now, the insomnia, inability to sleep, was that a significant problem from your observations with her? Yeah. It was a huge problem. And when you say huge problem, was there one point when she was on medication from Tufts that, in fact, she had gone 48 hours, I think, without sleep?
[00:40:13] Patrick Clancy: Yeah.
[00:40:14] Speaker 3: And that was disturbing to her?
[00:40:17] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. And it was just hard to function. And how about you? Was it disturbing to you? I just wanted her to get sleep and feel better.
[00:40:24] Speaker 3: Now, during that period of time, she then went and saw the next doctor or nurse practitioner, which we talked about, which would be Nurse Practitioner Paul at South Shore, right? Right. Now, after seeing Dr. Nurse Practitioner Paul, if you remember or know, did you observe, did she seem to get better or did she seem to get worse?
[00:40:47] Patrick Clancy: It would be hard to say. It was, I think it was a week at most. So, it's really hard to say in that short of time frame.
[00:40:57] Speaker 3: Sure. And when you say a week at most, you mean that that's like she was seeing Nurse Practitioner Paul for about a week?
[00:41:04] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. I mean, she may have only seen her once. It was very brief. And then she got reassigned somewhere.
[00:41:11] Speaker 3: And the reason, if you know, that she got reassigned somewhere, would be Dr. Nurse Practitioner Gelata, right?
[00:41:18] Patrick Clancy: Right.
[00:41:19] Speaker 3: Same practice, right?
[00:41:21] Patrick Clancy: Right.
[00:41:21] Speaker 3: And the reason was because Paul moved on to another job, right?
[00:41:27] Patrick Clancy: Right.
[00:41:27] Speaker 3: So, Lindsay wasn't out doctor hunting. She was referred by the nurse practitioner that was referred to you guys by your mom because Paul was leaving, right?
[00:41:39] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. She just switched doctors in the same practice.
[00:41:41] Speaker 3: All right. Now, she sees Dr. Gelata, right? Right. Did Dr. Gelata, to your knowledge, put her on medication?
[00:41:50] Patrick Clancy: Yeah.
[00:41:51] Speaker 3: And what was the medication, if you know?
[00:41:54] Patrick Clancy: Mainly Seroquel and benzodiazepines, Ativan.
[00:42:01] Speaker 3: Now, benzodiazepines, they're addictive, right? Apparently.
[00:42:09] Speaker 5: Objection.
[00:42:12] Speaker 3: I'll allow it. And a benzo would be, for example, Ativan, correct?
[00:42:17] Patrick Clancy: Correct.
[00:42:18] Speaker 3: Now, Seroquel, she was placed on Seroquel as well. Is that correct?
[00:42:24] Patrick Clancy: Right.
[00:42:25] Speaker 3: And to your observation, again, you're not a doctor, what you saw of your wife, was she affected positively or negatively by the Seroquel that she was on?
[00:42:36] Patrick Clancy: It appeared that she was affected very negatively, and she's reporting that she was getting worse on the Seroquel.
[00:42:44] Speaker 3: And do you know, did she report that to Dr. Gelata?
[00:42:49] Patrick Clancy: Yeah.
[00:42:51] Speaker 3: When she would consult with Dr. Gelata, prior to you actually going, do you know, were they all on video?
[00:43:00] Patrick Clancy: If you know. Yeah, they were all on Zoom.
[00:43:02] Speaker 3: Okay. Do you have any opinion for the jury as to approximately how long these meetings on Zoom would be with the nurse practitioner? Probably around 20 minutes. At some point, do you recall that you went with Lindsay to see Dr. Gelata? Is that right? Yes. And do you remember, if you remember, when that was? Early December. In early December of 2022, can you tell the jury from your observations, how did Lindsay appear? How was she acting? How was she faring?
[00:43:38] Patrick Clancy: She was extremely sleep-deprived and just highly anxious.
[00:43:45] Speaker 3: Was there a number of occasions that you would actually see her on the sofa rocking back and forth with her head under a pillow?
[00:43:53] Patrick Clancy: Yeah.
[00:43:54] Speaker 3: Did you report that and other symptoms to Dr. Gelata? Lindsay did. So when was it, if you recall, that you went and saw Dr. Gelata with your wife person to person?
[00:44:09] Patrick Clancy: When was it? Yep. Early December. I think it was December 6th.
[00:44:13] Speaker 3: And do you remember, you have a pretty good memory about this, do you remember what medication she was prescribed by Gelata?
[00:44:20] Patrick Clancy: Coming out of that meeting?
[00:44:22] Speaker 3: Yep.
[00:44:24] Patrick Clancy: Yeah, she increased the Seroquel significantly. And then she prescribed her Valium to help taper off of the benzos. Taper off the benzos? Yeah.
[00:44:38] Speaker 3: To your knowledge, did Lindsay go to doctors to seek out benzodiazepines or drugs just because she was a drug addict?
[00:44:49] Patrick Clancy: No. No. Lindsay, I think, wanted to, she definitely didn't want to take any more benzodiazepines and definitely didn't want to take any more Seroquel. I think that it wasn't really a matter of trying to get off the medication, it was just trying to get on the right medication.
[00:45:05] Speaker 3: Okay. Let's say mid-December, what observations, if any, heading up towards Christmas, did you guys endure?
[00:45:16] Patrick Clancy: She seemed to get worse. The Seroquel was increased to 400 milligrams.
[00:45:21] Speaker 3: 400?
[00:45:22] Patrick Clancy: Yep.
[00:45:23] Speaker 3: By Dr. Gelata.
[00:45:24] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. The idea behind that was it would help with sleep, but she didn't get better. She got worse.
[00:45:35] Speaker 3: Do you recall that at one point she went to a place called Women's and Infants in Rhode Island?
[00:45:47] Patrick Clancy: Right.
[00:45:47] Speaker 3: Women and Infants Center for Women's Behavioral Health. Do you recall that?
[00:45:52] Patrick Clancy: Right.
[00:45:53] Speaker 3: Do you remember when she actually went to Women's Behavioral Health?
[00:45:59] Patrick Clancy: Sometime in mid-December. I don't know the exact date.
[00:46:01] Speaker 3: All right. So if I suggest to you, sir, that I have certified copies of the Women and Infants medical records indicating that on December 20th of 2022, that was the day that you dropped her off at Women's. Does that refresh your memory?
[00:46:16] Patrick Clancy: Yeah.
[00:46:17] Speaker 3: Your Honor, I'd like to offer the certified copies of the Women and Infants hospital records.
[00:46:22] Speaker 1: I would object, but you don't have a copy of those.
[00:46:25] Speaker ?: All right.
[00:46:27] Speaker 2: You don't have any? Could I see everybody here?
[00:46:37] Speaker 3: So, Mr. Clancy, do you remember that day, December 20th of 2022, that she went to that place? How did she get there?
[00:46:46] Patrick Clancy: I drove her.
[00:46:47] Speaker 3: And do you remember dropping her off? Yeah. Do you remember what her state of mind was to go there? Was she scared? Was she happy? Was she?
[00:46:55] Patrick Clancy: I think she was scared.
[00:46:57] Speaker 3: Do you remember what you did that day?
[00:47:00] Patrick Clancy: I took Dawson skiing.
[00:47:02] Speaker 3: And where did you go skiing?
[00:47:04] Patrick Clancy: Went to shoot it.
[00:47:05] Speaker 3: At some point in the afternoon, did you receive a phone call?
[00:47:09] Patrick Clancy: Yeah.
[00:47:09] Speaker 3: Was it from Lindsay?
[00:47:11] Patrick Clancy: Yeah.
[00:47:11] Speaker 3: And as a result of the phone call, what did you do?
[00:47:15] Patrick Clancy: She said that you need to come pick me up, and the doctor's here. I want to talk to you, have you come in and talk for a bit.
[00:47:24] Speaker 3: Okay. Did you go and talk to them?
[00:47:25] Patrick Clancy: Yeah.
[00:47:26] Speaker 3: Do you remember who you talked to?
[00:47:28] Patrick Clancy: I don't remember their names.
[00:47:29] Speaker 3: Do you remember the conversation? Did you describe or indicate what her symptoms were at that point? On December 20th of 2022?
[00:47:38] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. The conversation was they didn't... Objection.
[00:47:42] Speaker ?: Yes. All right.
[00:47:44] Patrick Clancy: Sustained at this time.
[00:47:47] Speaker 3: Did the people at Women's and Infants Facility in Rhode Island prescribe any medication, to your knowledge?
[00:47:55] Patrick Clancy: I don't think so.
[00:47:57] Speaker 3: Did they provide any counseling or anything?
[00:47:59] Patrick Clancy: I think they tried to, but they felt that it wasn't the right fit for Lindsay.
[00:48:06] Speaker 3: Do you recall that, in fact, it was because of the drugs, they weren't sure what symptomology would be because of the drugs?
[00:48:14] Speaker 5: Objection.
[00:48:15] Speaker 2: Sustained.
[00:48:16] Speaker 3: Do you recall whether or not the people at Women and Infants in Rhode Island reached out to Dr. Gelato?
[00:48:25] Patrick Clancy: I don't think so. If he knows. I don't think they did, no.
[00:48:31] Speaker 3: And was it one day or half a day that she went to Women and Infants in Rhode Island?
[00:48:36] Patrick Clancy: It was half a day.
[00:48:37] Speaker 3: Half a day. So, after you pick her up and you bring her home, it's now you and the kids and Lindsay, and it's days before Christmas, right?
[00:48:50] Patrick Clancy: Yeah, and her parents were there.
[00:48:51] Speaker 3: Why were her parents there?
[00:48:54] Patrick Clancy: They were visiting, trying to help out, and I took Dawson to watch. She said they stayed home with Cora and Kellen.
[00:49:01] Speaker 3: Now, during that time frame in December of 22, maybe a little bit before, maybe after Thanksgiving, did your mom and dad and Lindsay's parents come to your house and try to help out with the kids?
[00:49:19] Patrick Clancy: Yeah, I think it was separately, though.
[00:49:21] Speaker 3: Yeah, of course, it would be separate. I mean, what would they do?
[00:49:26] Patrick Clancy: Just be there, help out, play with them. They'd get take out, play Scrabble.
[00:49:35] Speaker 3: Did Lindsay's mother and father actually stay there and sleep in the basement for the time?
[00:49:40] Patrick Clancy: They did, yeah.
[00:49:43] Speaker 3: Were you aware, personally, let me back up, you and Lindsay, as husband and wife, would, in effect, sleep in the same bedroom, is that correct?
[00:49:50] Patrick Clancy: Yeah.
[00:49:51] Speaker 3: There was an occasion, though, that she said to you about you go downstairs, and then I think she ended up downstairs?
[00:49:58] Patrick Clancy: Yeah, for the purposes of her getting better sleep.
[00:50:00] Speaker 3: And for her purposes of getting better sleep, were you aware that on one occasion she used a gummy, a sleep aid gummy? Did you know that?
[00:50:14] Patrick Clancy: I don't recall that, but we did have them in the house.
[00:50:17] Speaker 3: Okay. Now, to your knowledge, was Lindsay a person that liked to smoke the weed and used the CBDs, oils, and all that stuff, or did she not imbibe in that?
[00:50:28] Patrick Clancy: No, she didn't smoke.
[00:50:30] Speaker 3: So, you had these gummies in the house, a sleep aid, right?
[00:50:36] Patrick Clancy: I mean, some people might call them a sleep aid.
[00:50:38] Speaker 3: Okay. Heading into the holidays of 22, do you recall where you spent Christmas?
[00:50:51] Patrick Clancy: I think it was at our house. We celebrated Cora's birthday. And then I think we actually went down to Wallingford, Connecticut to be with her parents after.
[00:51:03] Speaker 3: Her parents?
[00:51:03] Patrick Clancy: Yeah.
[00:51:04] Speaker 3: Okay. And then heading into January of 23, who did she then see for doctors or nurse practitioners, if you know?
[00:51:18] Patrick Clancy: After she got back from McLean?
[00:51:20] Speaker 3: Yes.
[00:51:20] Patrick Clancy: She switched back to Jennifer Tufts.
[00:51:23] Speaker 3: Now, before she switches back to Tufts in January, on New Year's of 2022, 2023, you guys drive to Boston, go to MGH, and ultimately she turns herself into McLean Hospital, right?
[00:51:43] Patrick Clancy: Right.
[00:51:44] Speaker 3: Now, McLean Hospital is basically a locked ward facility, correct?
[00:51:49] Patrick Clancy: Correct.
[00:51:50] Speaker 3: Was she allowed to just wander around and leave the place whenever she wanted?
[00:51:54] Patrick Clancy: She couldn't leave, but inside she could go to different areas.
[00:51:58] Speaker 3: Can you tell a jury what her state of mind was as she went to McLean Hospital with her husband on New Year's of 23 at that point?
[00:52:07] Patrick Clancy: She was scared. She didn't want to go. But I think it was the second time we went to the ER, and I said, you have to go.
[00:52:16] Speaker 3: Now, at McLean Hospital, I know you visited with her. Is that correct?
[00:52:21] Patrick Clancy: Yeah.
[00:52:22] Speaker 3: District attorney asked you yesterday about the excellent care that she was provided with all these counselors and therapists, and you indicated that it was your understanding that she was playing with clay and coloring, right? Can you describe for the jury what McLean was like to you as a husband visiting his wife? In other words, were there doctors, were there nurses, were there people in the hallways?
[00:52:44] Patrick Clancy: What I saw was, it looked like mainly nurses. It was the tail end of COVID, so they were mostly behind this plastic covered area. And it could have been just the time of day that I visited, but people were hanging around, watching TV, playing with clay.
[00:53:06] Speaker 3: Do you know whether or not she saw a doctor, psychiatrist, ultimately, from McLean Hospital?
[00:53:14] Patrick Clancy: I was not aware of that. The only one I was aware of was the doctor on the second to last or final day.
[00:53:22] Speaker 3: And what was that, Dr. Goodhart?
[00:53:24] Patrick Clancy: Yeah.
[00:53:25] Speaker 3: And did you speak to Dr. Goodhart?
[00:53:28] Patrick Clancy: I ended up calling her.
[00:53:30] Speaker 3: What's going on?
[00:53:31] Patrick Clancy: I wanted to see what her evaluation was, and so I gave her a call, and we spoke, and she said, you know, she's clearly depressed. Sustained.
[00:53:47] Speaker 3: Okay. So you spoke to Dr. Goodhart.
[00:53:52] Speaker ?: Yeah.
[00:53:52] Speaker 3: Did Dr. Goodhart, to your knowledge, prescribe any medication?
[00:53:57] Patrick Clancy: I think she recommended medication, and then...
[00:54:01] Speaker 3: How many medications did she recommend?
[00:54:04] Patrick Clancy: I don't know if she recommended multiple. I want to say it was Cymbalta, but she said, you know, check with your doctor and make a decision.
[00:54:15] Speaker 3: So when Lindsay left, it was because she wanted to leave one day early because of Cora's birthday. Is that right?
[00:54:23] Patrick Clancy: I don't think it was one day early. I think she had a five-day stay, which at the time was my understanding was that was pretty standard. And, yeah, she did want to attend Cora's birthday.
[00:54:35] Speaker 3: So there's no doubt, sir, in your mind, that when she was discharged from McLean, that... You got these, right? McLean? Yes. Yeah. That when she was discharged from McLean Hospital, it was not against medical advice. The doctors gave her to go help and let it go with you, right?
[00:54:53] Speaker 2: Right.
[00:54:54] Speaker 3: And off of the McLean records, you know.
[00:54:55] Speaker 2: Any objection? No. They may be admitted.
[00:55:05] Speaker 3: Now, you know when you go to the hospital and you get out of the hospital, they give you a bag and you've got medications and a little card and says, thank you for being here, stuff like that. Did you guys get anything from McLean at all?
[00:55:15] Patrick Clancy: I don't think so.
[00:55:16] Speaker 3: Did you get any recommendations other than the doctor suggesting that you might want to try Cymbalta? Did they give you a script?
[00:55:24] Patrick Clancy: I don't think so.
[00:55:26] Speaker 3: You know what Cymbalta was?
[00:55:28] Patrick Clancy: No.
[00:55:29] Speaker 3: Do you remember Dr. Goodhart telling Lindsay to Google it?
[00:55:33] Patrick Clancy: I think that's accurate.
[00:55:35] Speaker 3: Yeah. In fact, she Googled hundreds of times medication, right? Yeah. So when you guys go home, and now it's January, obviously, you had the party for Cora, correct?
[00:55:51] Patrick Clancy: Yeah.
[00:55:51] Speaker 3: You guys had friends over or friends that you guys knew?
[00:55:55] Patrick Clancy: Friends came to the party, which was at a place in Plymouth.
[00:56:00] Speaker 3: Would you agree with me that Lindsay had a number of friends from actually grammar school through high school through college that she stayed in touch with over the years?
[00:56:09] Patrick Clancy: Yeah.
[00:56:10] Speaker 3: And you as well?
[00:56:12] Patrick Clancy: Yep.
[00:56:13] Speaker 3: And they're good friends.
[00:56:14] Speaker ?: And they're good friends.
[00:56:14] Speaker 3: And you still would see them, and you guys would do dinner and things of that nature, right?
[00:56:18] Patrick Clancy: Yeah.
[00:56:19] Speaker 3: Actually, one of your friends, I think it was one of your friends, it might have been one of her friends, actually named her in January around that time frame to be godmother or take care of their child if anything bad happened to them and they were dead, right? Remember that? Remember that?
[00:56:37] Patrick Clancy: My brain has been foggy for the last couple of years.
[00:56:40] Speaker 3: I understand.
[00:56:41] Patrick Clancy: Yeah.
[00:56:42] Speaker 3: Okay. In January, as time went by, do you recall that she would actually continue to take notes of her medications that she was taking, right?
[00:56:59] Patrick Clancy: That sounds like something Lindsay would do.
[00:57:01] Speaker 3: You've got the diarrhea, a little log, right?
[00:57:03] Speaker ?: Yep.
[00:57:04] Speaker 3: I'm approaching you, sir, with this and asking if you can identify this.
[00:57:11] Patrick Clancy: Yes.
[00:57:12] Speaker 3: And when you say yes, and I'll put it on the little screen, what is it?
[00:57:22] Patrick Clancy: It's the dosage of medication that she took and how she's feeling.
[00:57:29] Speaker 3: So this is kind of like a little medical diary that she was keeping.
[00:57:33] Patrick Clancy: Yeah.
[00:57:33] Speaker 3: For example, you know, here you see on that, five milligrams, Valium, 200, Seraquel, slept well, horrible thoughts in the morning, right?
[00:57:42] Patrick Clancy: Yeah.
[00:57:43] Speaker 3: And did she at some point, I think the DA had asked you, I'm going to offer this, you know, if I may.
[00:57:48] Speaker 2: Any objection? No. That may be admitted.
[00:57:52] Speaker 1: Thank you.
[00:57:59] Speaker 3: There was an occasion where she told you in the presence of her mother that she was having horrible thoughts, right?
[00:58:11] Patrick Clancy: Right.
[00:58:12] Speaker 3: And you told us about that yesterday, and that took, it was quite an emotional thing for her to do that, right? Right. After that time frame, you continued on, you were working in the basement, right? Yeah. I shouldn't say basement, it was a finished place, right? A finished basement, yeah. And that was where you worked on a regular basis, is that right?
[00:58:39] Patrick Clancy: Yeah.
[00:58:40] Speaker 3: Would that be a 40-hour week or longer?
[00:58:43] Patrick Clancy: It varied, but yeah, roughly 40 hours.
[00:58:46] Speaker 3: And I know it was maybe COVID, tail end of COVID, but one of the other reasons that you did that was so you could be home and help out. Is that right?
[00:58:54] Patrick Clancy: Yeah, I worked from home since 2018.
[00:58:57] Speaker 3: Okay.
[00:58:58] Patrick Clancy: But yeah, I built an office down there.
[00:59:00] Speaker 3: So you were always there?
[00:59:02] Patrick Clancy: Yeah.
[00:59:02] Speaker 3: Not always, but you were down there when you would work?
[00:59:04] Patrick Clancy: When I wasn't traveling, yeah, I was there.
[00:59:07] Speaker 3: So when would you travel? Tell us about that.
[00:59:10] Patrick Clancy: I really didn't travel actually much during COVID, just towards the end, once in November.
[00:59:18] Speaker 3: November of what year?
[00:59:19] Patrick Clancy: 2022.
[00:59:20] Speaker 3: November of 2022.
[00:59:22] Patrick Clancy: But before that, I traveled extensively.
[00:59:24] Speaker 3: Let's look at November of 2022. November of 2022 is a month before she was telling you and her mother that she was having thoughts about hurting the children, right?
[00:59:35] Patrick Clancy: Right.
[00:59:36] Speaker 3: November of 2022. And you traveled. Where did you travel to?
[00:59:41] Patrick Clancy: New York.
[00:59:42] Speaker 3: And how long were you there, sir?
[00:59:45] Patrick Clancy: Two nights.
[00:59:47] Speaker 3: And who took care of the kids?
[00:59:49] Patrick Clancy: Lindsay.
[00:59:54] Speaker 3: Sorry?
[00:59:54] Patrick Clancy: Lindsay took care of the kids.
[00:59:55] Speaker 3: Lindsay. So for two days, two nights, a month, and a week or so, before she killed the children, she was home with the kids for two days. Is that right? Right. Fair to say that you also had your friends that you would do brunch with on occasion, Sundays or weeknights or whenever, guys' night type thing?
[01:00:22] Patrick Clancy: Yep.
[01:00:23] Speaker 3: And you'd be out with your friends. If she wanted to kill the kids, she certainly could have done at that time when you're out, right?
[01:00:29] Patrick Clancy: In theory.
[01:00:32] Speaker 3: As opposed to sending you on a three-minute trip to CVS and a nine-minute trip to a restaurant, you were away for two days in November and on a number of occasions for brunch as well as skiing, right? You're a pretty active guy. Yeah. I'm going to approach you, sir, in another one of the books that was in the kitchen, the cabinet, I believe. Do you remember? I think you ought to start this one.
[01:01:04] Patrick Clancy: I don't think so.
[01:01:07] Speaker 3: But it's okay to say, sir, that she had a number of books, you know, about parenting and things like that. And this one here was pregnancy and postpartum anxiety workbook. Did she have workbooks that you were aware of or work diagrams and things like that?
[01:01:33] Patrick Clancy: She had books of different sorts.
[01:01:40] Speaker 3: So you can't identify this as being in the kitchen, right?
[01:01:44] Patrick Clancy: I don't recall seeing that book.
[01:01:46] Speaker 3: Can I monitor his ID?
[01:01:47] Patrick Clancy: Sure.
[01:01:48] Speaker 3: Thank you.
[01:01:51] Speaker 1: For identification.
[01:01:59] Speaker 3: Thank you. By the way, I'm going to approach you, sir, with this document. Excuse me. And ask if you can identify it.
[01:02:19] Patrick Clancy: It says postpartum depression and anxiety patient information sheet.
[01:02:24] Speaker 3: And if you go towards the end there, if there's any fear to be for writing, finish.
[01:02:34] Patrick Clancy: Yeah.
[01:02:34] Speaker 2: All right. That may be admitted. All right.
[01:02:41] Speaker ?: That may be admitted.
[01:02:43] Speaker 3: Thank you. It's got a bunch of flowers on the front. It appears to be a notebook. It's your understanding that the state police went in your house and they seized all sorts of items such as this. Yeah. So we don't have originals that the police do. Right. They're inaccurate. Yeah. Is that the caption that you were referring to? Yes. Postpartum depression and anxiety? Yes. And at the end of this particular document, you would agree, sir, that it has writing? Yeah. And whose writing is that? Lindsay's. And is this like a book or notes that she would take documenting on a daily basis any effect that she had from postpartum?
[01:04:04] Patrick Clancy: It appears to be a case? Yeah.
[01:04:25] Speaker 3: Your Honor, I would offer the records of Dr. Jennifer Tufts. Ask the mental health records.
[01:04:31] Speaker 2: No objection.
[01:04:32] Speaker 3: All right. They may be admitted. I'm going to have to, I think, maybe talk to the DA about this because I do have a lot of tabs and notes in this one. I know we have clean copies, right?
[01:04:43] Speaker 5: We have a clean copy we're planning to admit. Good. Okay.
[01:04:46] Speaker 2: All right. We'll enter that and then before we can then substitute it with a clean copy. Thank you.
[01:04:52] Speaker ?: See the date for the invitation.
[01:05:02] Speaker 3: John, can I see the exhibit for the office? One of the things that you had identified yesterday was the document that you obtained from CVS. Is that correct? Yes. It sets forth all of the medications that were purchased by Lindsay by prescription from the physicians that she had seen during that period of time, correct?
[01:05:33] Patrick Clancy: Correct.
[01:05:34] Speaker 3: And you indicated yesterday that the police had seized a number of pill bottles and then you also had a number of pill bottles. Is that right?
[01:05:49] Patrick Clancy: Right.
[01:05:52] Speaker 3: And the pill bottles that you had, do you recall, what are the circumstances that you had them in a bag in your car?
[01:06:02] Patrick Clancy: The reason I had them in a bag is because sometimes a provider would adjust medications. So for example, I do remember Lindsay had a prescription of Ativan and then a few days later they wanted to increase the dosage because it wasn't effective. So what they would do is they would say give that old prescription to your husband, he'll discard it, and then continue taking from the new prescription.
[01:06:31] Speaker 3: When the DA yesterday went through that there were scripts and there were pills or the 30 count, but then there's 27 and three were gone, but that's because she wasn't taking her medication. That's not the case. It was what you were told to do, right?
[01:06:46] Patrick Clancy: Correct. Yeah. Without that context, it paints a different picture.
[01:06:55] Speaker 3: Exhibit two would be the pills that you had turned in, I believe. Is that correct? In your bag, in your car?
[01:07:03] Patrick Clancy: Right.
[01:07:04] Speaker 3: I know you can't tell from looking at the back.
[01:07:06] Patrick Clancy: I remember it's exhibit two, though.
[01:07:08] Speaker 3: Okay. Wednesday, January 24th, one of the troopers located four medication bottles. And at some point on the 26th at about 2.30 in the afternoon, bottles were then documented by the police. When was it, if you know, that you turned these items in to the police?
[01:07:31] Patrick Clancy: I believe it was after the event. I don't remember the exact date, but I remember I told them I do have other prescriptions in my truck still. And I gave them to them.
[01:07:44] Speaker 3: Okay. So the police already went in with a search warrant. They already seized all the drugs that they could find in the house, in the kitchen, in the bedroom. Were there drugs in the kitchen, by the way?
[01:07:54] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. Yeah.
[01:07:55] Speaker 3: They're all over the place, right? And they seized that, right?
[01:07:59] Speaker ?: Yeah.
[01:08:00] Speaker 3: And then you, to be cooperative, told the police that you also had pills in your car, and you went to the DA's office and gave them to Attorney Sprague and the state police, right?
[01:08:11] Patrick Clancy: Right. But to be clear, those were discontinued prescriptions.
[01:08:14] Speaker 3: These are the ones that she stopped?
[01:08:17] Patrick Clancy: Correct.
[01:08:18] Speaker 3: And then you had new prescriptions, so there were new prescriptions that we prescribed to her, right?
[01:08:23] Patrick Clancy: Yes.
[01:08:23] Speaker 3: Now, when I met with you in the house, long after the state police had gone and finished their search, you recall that we went up to the bedroom, and I removed this from the nightstand right next to the bed?
[01:08:37] Patrick Clancy: Yeah.
[01:08:38] Speaker 3: Can you tell us what that is? What is this? Is it a drawer, obviously?
[01:08:41] Patrick Clancy: That's the drawer that goes into the nightstand.
[01:08:43] Speaker 3: And inside the drawer, sir, do you recall that there were a number of items that I see? Trazindole, Lindsay Clancy, prescribed on January 5, 23. We had a pain.
[01:09:06] Speaker ?: January.
[01:09:07] Speaker 3: We had a pain. A hundred millimeters prescribed for Lindsay Clancy, December 21st. Or as a parent, they're all empty too, right?
[01:09:20] Speaker ?: Yeah.
[01:09:20] Speaker 3: It's usually what she shot down with that lemonade or water or whatever was in the cup that she ground up these pills, right? La Matrigine, prescribed to Lindsay Clancy, December 16th, 22. Myrtazapine prescribed to Lindsay Clancy, January 23. Those were in this drawer, and they were all empty, right?
[01:09:51] Speaker ?: Right.
[01:09:52] Speaker 3: You observed that, right?
[01:09:53] Speaker ?: Yeah.
[01:09:55] Speaker 3: There's something else that was in the drawer. Do you recognize that?
[01:09:57] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. What is it? It's her Apple Watch.
[01:09:59] Speaker 3: Her Apple Watch. This is the Apple Watch that apparently the police use to walk the stairs, downstairs, hyperate, things of that nature. They never even seized it, did they? They left it in the drawer, right?
[01:10:11] Patrick Clancy: Apparently.
[01:10:16] Speaker 3: What is this item, sir? If you can identify that for us.
[01:10:23] Patrick Clancy: It's a face mask for sleeping.
[01:10:26] Speaker 3: To sleep?
[01:10:27] Patrick Clancy: Yeah.
[01:10:27] Speaker 3: Now, you had mentioned something, I think, about pillow spray. What is that?
[01:10:34] Patrick Clancy: She bought some pillow spray. It apparently helps you sleep.
[01:10:39] Speaker 3: Did you see her using that on a regular basis?
[01:10:43] Patrick Clancy: Yeah.
[01:10:45] Speaker ?: Yes?
[01:10:45] Patrick Clancy: Yeah, she did.
[01:10:49] Speaker 3: Your Honor, I would offer...
[01:10:53] Speaker 5: I could just see...
[01:10:58] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[01:10:58] Speaker 5: I think you...
[01:10:59] Speaker 2: I think there's a watch on the side there.
[01:11:01] Speaker 5: No objection.
[01:11:10] Speaker 2: Okay. Do you want to... You put that in as one exhibit? Sure. Okay.
[01:11:18] Speaker 3: How many Apple Watches did she have? Just one. Just one? It's the only one she had. The police never seized it, right?
[01:11:33] Patrick Clancy: Correct.
[01:11:34] Speaker 3: And the drugs that were in the drawer, the empty drugs and the pill bottles from January, December, 22, 23, the police never seized it, did they?
[01:11:42] Patrick Clancy: No.
[01:11:48] Speaker 3: I'm showing you an item, sir. It's like a little green face. Have you ever seen that before?
[01:11:55] Patrick Clancy: Yeah.
[01:11:56] Speaker 3: We'll tell the jury what it is.
[01:11:58] Speaker 5: Objection. We could go to...
[01:12:00] Speaker 2: Yeah, if I see... Counsel's sidebar, please.
[01:12:12] Speaker 3: To your knowledge, sir, was she advised by nurse practitioner Huffs to keep a nighttime dump diary of all of her thoughts and write them down so that she had something that she could refer to?
[01:12:35] Patrick Clancy: Not that I'm aware of.
[01:12:38] Speaker 3: Do you ever see her writing notes in a diary or, like, a thing with dates on it, November 23rd, for example, things of that nature?
[01:12:46] Patrick Clancy: I knew she kept notes, but I didn't see her doing it.
[01:12:50] Speaker 3: I'm going to show you this document, or I have an item. Asked that appears to be her handwriting.
[01:12:57] Patrick Clancy: Yeah.
[01:12:58] Speaker 3: And does that contain indication as to her state of mind, particular date, or dates thereafter?
[01:13:08] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[01:13:09] Speaker 3: Let's take a look at the other page and make sure there's a wallet. Handwrite.
[01:13:19] Speaker 2: Yep.
[01:13:20] Speaker 3: Do you want to wrap it up for this?
[01:13:22] Speaker 2: Call off.
[01:13:24] Speaker 3: Can I see it, please? Yeah. And I got it from the state police, so let's assume you guys have it.
[01:13:31] Speaker 1: No objection. Okay.
[01:13:32] Speaker 2: That may be admitted. Okay.
[01:13:35] Speaker 3: I'm going to show you what other documents, sir. It appears to be a document. Do you recognize her handwriting? That document with dates, September 29th through September 22th?
[01:13:54] Patrick Clancy: Yes.
[01:13:55] Speaker 3: And is that, can you tell us what that appears to be, sir, if you know?
[01:14:01] Patrick Clancy: It looks like a schedule for Callen.
[01:14:04] Speaker 3: And the schedule for Callen, that would be, what, like when he's eating or sleeping or something like that?
[01:14:10] Patrick Clancy: Yeah, and naps. Yeah.
[01:14:11] Speaker 3: So, for example, where it says September 29th, there it is, 22, and then it makes reference to Callen, last fed with a time frame, and then there's a bunch of pages like that that go forward on those dates. Is that what that is?
[01:14:27] Patrick Clancy: Yeah.
[01:14:28] Speaker 3: Put them down for a nap, 935 with a smiley face, things like that, right?
[01:14:33] Patrick Clancy: Right.
[01:14:33] Speaker 3: Is this typical for Lindsay that she would document these things as a new mother?
[01:14:38] Patrick Clancy: Yeah.
[01:14:39] Speaker 3: Was she being controlling, in your opinion, of her child and of you by doing this schedule?
[01:14:45] Patrick Clancy: No, I found it helpful.
[01:14:47] Speaker 3: Any objection? No objection.
[01:14:50] Patrick Clancy: That may be admitted.
[01:14:52] Speaker ?: Any more.
[01:14:54] Speaker 3: One of the things, sir, that the district attorney had asked you about is the exhibits of the, I think it was the window, in the bedroom. You said it was 20 feet drop to the ground?
[01:15:12] Patrick Clancy: Right.
[01:15:12] Speaker 3: Is that right? This is a photograph of the same one you already introduced, but I just don't know where it is. So, this is the photograph of the house, and you can identify that, right?
[01:15:27] Patrick Clancy: Yeah, that's the living room window.
[01:15:29] Speaker 3: Okay. And the window that you're talking about, that's 20 feet up, would be on the very top of that picture, correct?
[01:15:39] Patrick Clancy: Correct.
[01:15:51] Speaker 3: Now, when you identified this picture, but I can't see you, you see that there's some kind of an orange ball? It appears to be an orange ball underneath the silt?
[01:16:06] Patrick Clancy: Yeah.
[01:16:06] Speaker 3: To the left? And it appears to be red marks or red spots, like possibly blood, above it?
[01:16:12] Patrick Clancy: Yeah.
[01:16:13] Speaker 3: Can you tell the jurors what that little orange ball is?
[01:16:17] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. We had a woodpecker who would peck at the house and create holes. That's why I've paired some of the other sections, too. And I took some foam and filled the hole.
[01:16:35] Speaker 3: I'd offer that, Your Honor, just a continuity.
[01:16:37] Speaker 2: No objection. That may be admitted.
[01:16:39] Speaker 3: And I'd also, if I may, just the top picture, I believe, is also here where it looks like fingerprints or blood on the edge of the window on the second floor. You see that? That's from the house?
[01:16:53] Patrick Clancy: Yeah.
[01:16:54] Speaker 1: Excuse me.
[01:16:55] Speaker 3: Are you ready? Yeah. Okay. So, okay, I'm talking about the Hornet thing right here. And then this is, oh, I see on this top here. Okay. So, you see on the top of this window here, it's not a very good picture. Underneath the Hornet thing, you can see it, but in the exhibit, you can see there's, like, blood drops or blood smears there.
[01:17:27] Patrick Clancy: Yeah, I see it.
[01:17:28] Speaker 3: That's the first floor window that's directly underneath the second floor window, right?
[01:17:32] Speaker 2: Right.
[01:17:32] Speaker 3: Any objection?
[01:17:36] Speaker ?: No.
[01:17:36] Speaker 2: They may be admitted. They may be admitted.
[01:17:41] Speaker 3: I'm all set. Thank you, sir.
[01:18:04] Speaker ?: All right.
[01:18:05] Speaker 3: I'm all for the redirect.
[01:18:06] Speaker 5: Yes, Your Honor. Thank you. Mr. Clancy, you were shown an email, and it's been marked as an exhibit that you sent to coworkers on January 24th, 2023 at 524 PM, correct? Yeah. And you were asked about it coming from the Surface Pro, but your testimony was that it could have come from your iPhone, correct?
[01:18:30] Patrick Clancy: Correct.
[01:18:31] Speaker 5: And, in fact, you watched footage earlier of yourself going into the CVS in Kingston at 532 PM, correct?
[01:18:39] Patrick Clancy: Correct.
[01:18:40] Speaker 5: And you had your phone with you, correct, because you used it?
[01:18:42] Speaker ?: Yeah.
[01:18:43] Speaker 5: And we also saw you on the 3V footage using your phone as well, correct?
[01:18:47] Patrick Clancy: Right.
[01:18:48] Speaker 5: So you were clearly out of the house at 524 PM, correct?
[01:18:55] Patrick Clancy: Sorry, what time did you say I was at CVS?
[01:18:57] Speaker 5: So you walked in at 532 PM, correct?
[01:19:02] Patrick Clancy: Correct.
[01:19:03] Speaker 5: And you left the house. As you were leaving the house, Lindsay sent you the text about PDLX, correct?
[01:19:11] Patrick Clancy: I don't know if I had left the house yet, but, yeah.
[01:19:14] Speaker 5: But that was sent at 515 PM, correct?
[01:19:16] Patrick Clancy: Right.
[01:19:17] Speaker 5: And how far away is the Kingston CVS?
[01:19:21] Patrick Clancy: Three minutes.
[01:19:22] Speaker 5: Okay. And so you leave the house, you get into your car, and you drive to CVS, correct?
[01:19:28] Patrick Clancy: Correct.
[01:19:29] Speaker 5: And so that should have taken three minutes, correct? Yep. So after the text that was sent at 515 PM, that would have been sometime around 518 or 520 PM that you should have arrived at CVS, correct?
[01:19:41] Patrick Clancy: Right.
[01:19:42] Speaker 5: But you don't go in until 532 PM, correct?
[01:19:46] Patrick Clancy: I don't know. I don't know what time I pulled in the parking lot.
[01:19:51] Speaker 5: I'm not asking you what time you pulled into the parking lot, but is it fair to say that the video that you were shown earlier shows you entering the store at 532 PM?
[01:19:59] Patrick Clancy: Yes.
[01:19:59] Speaker 5: So from the time you should have been at the parking lot of CVS around 520 PM until 532 PM, could you have been in your car sending this email on your iPhone?
[01:20:12] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. I just don't know if I pulled into the parking lot at 520.
[01:20:15] Speaker 5: But sometime after the text was sent from Lindsay about PDLX, but before 532 PM, you were in your car?
[01:20:25] Patrick Clancy: Correct. Okay. Yes.
[01:20:29] Speaker 5: Now, you were asked about my questions to you about going to Boston, and my questions to you were about December 3rd, not December 2nd, correct?
[01:20:41] Patrick Clancy: Correct.
[01:20:42] Speaker 5: Because your anniversary is December 3rd, not December 2nd, correct?
[01:20:45] Patrick Clancy: Right.
[01:20:46] Speaker 5: So Dawson was taken to the doctors on December 2nd, correct?
[01:20:49] Patrick Clancy: Correct.
[01:20:50] Speaker 5: And on December 3rd, did you have plans, not that they were followed through, but did you have plans to go to Boston that day?
[01:20:57] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. So I can provide some clarification on that.
[01:21:00] Speaker 5: Sure.
[01:21:01] Patrick Clancy: So, yeah, on Monday, I was a little bit confused by it because we were home. But, yeah, I think there was a plan prior to that, like an anniversary plan to go to Boston, but it was canceled.
[01:21:15] Speaker 5: Okay.
[01:21:15] Patrick Clancy: And the picture you showed was from September.
[01:21:19] Speaker 5: So the plans that you had to go to Boston, I'm showing you here, some text messages between yourself and Lindsay. And here, there's one here that says, the spa, the Omni, is booked, but you're on the wait list. As a backup, I have you booked for massage at the nearby IHG for 90 minutes at 145. Is that correct?
[01:21:49] Patrick Clancy: Yeah.
[01:21:50] Speaker 5: And then you later say, we can get lunch and then head over. She responds, okay. And then you write that they'll let you use the gym and the pool while she's getting her massage. Is that correct?
[01:22:06] Patrick Clancy: Right.
[01:22:07] Speaker 5: And then you talk about plans for lunch and dinner. And so there were the plans. They just fell through, right?
[01:22:16] Patrick Clancy: Yeah, we canceled them, yeah.
[01:22:17] Speaker 5: So it's not as if I made that up out of thin air. That's here in the text messages, correct?
[01:22:22] Patrick Clancy: Right, yeah. It was just confusing because we were home. But yeah, when I left, I recollected that and then I found the picture and the picture was from September.
[01:22:32] Speaker 5: And was that from the wedding you went to?
[01:22:34] Speaker ?: Yeah.
[01:22:35] Speaker 5: If we could have the text messages marked this in a specific.
[01:22:38] Speaker 2: Any objection?
[01:22:39] Speaker ?: No.
[01:22:39] Speaker 2: That may be admitted.
[01:22:42] Speaker 1: 87.
[01:22:47] Speaker 5: Now, in cross-examination, you said that Lindsay always took the medications exactly as instructed. But in direct, you said you weren't always with her every time she took the pills. Is that correct?
[01:23:00] Patrick Clancy: That's correct. But the understanding was that she took it as directed.
[01:23:03] Speaker 5: Because she told you she did?
[01:23:05] Patrick Clancy: Yeah.
[01:23:06] Speaker 5: And because you trusted her to do so?
[01:23:08] Patrick Clancy: Yeah.
[01:23:08] Speaker ?: Okay.
[01:23:09] Speaker 5: But you can't sit here and say definitively that she took every pill exactly as instructed every single time because you didn't watch her every time, correct?
[01:23:18] Patrick Clancy: I was not standing next to her every time she took pills.
[01:23:22] Speaker 5: And you were asked about the Facebook search in August, August 23rd, 2022. And you were asked about being on the Surface Pro and looking up the country singer who had killed himself. Is that right?
[01:23:37] Patrick Clancy: Right.
[01:23:38] Speaker 5: Okay. So I think that what you said when you were asked by defense counsel about whether or not you accidentally went to this site on methods of suicide, you said that could be likely, that might have happened. You're not sure, correct?
[01:24:03] Patrick Clancy: It's, yeah, it's so subtle that I don't remember specifically. But I do remember listening to Tom T. Hall.
[01:24:10] Speaker 5: How often did you listen to him?
[01:24:12] Patrick Clancy: It was like for a week.
[01:24:13] Speaker 5: Okay. And so were you aware that on 823, August 23rd, 2022, at 9.40 a.m., someone signed into Lindsey's Facebook account on the Surface Pro?
[01:24:27] Patrick Clancy: No.
[01:24:27] Speaker 5: And then at 9.43 p.m. is when the Tom Hall site was accessed. Do you recall that?
[01:24:35] Patrick Clancy: Yeah.
[01:24:35] Speaker 5: And at 9.45 a.m. is when a person not just hit a link by accident, but actually had to click on a link to go to suicide methods. Are you aware of that?
[01:24:46] Patrick Clancy: No.
[01:24:46] Speaker ?: Okay.
[01:24:47] Speaker 5: Is there any reason why you would have been going in and logging on to Lindsey's Facebook account while going on Wikipedia and looking at suicide methods all in that same five minutes?
[01:25:01] Patrick Clancy: I didn't use, I didn't log into Lindsey's Facebook ever. It's very possible that I looked at Tom Hall's Wikipedia page.
[01:25:10] Speaker 5: At some point?
[01:25:12] Patrick Clancy: Yeah.
[01:25:13] Speaker 5: Do you remember spending three minutes on the Methods of Suicide site, scrolling through and reading the Methods of Suicide site for three minutes?
[01:25:24] Patrick Clancy: No. I don't remember something I did for three minutes almost four years ago.
[01:25:29] Speaker 5: Do you remember being on that site, the Methods of Suicide, and clicking on a link to a bridge in Australia that people use to commit suicide? No. No. So in this five minutes or so where someone's using the Surface Pro, using Lindsey's Facebook while doing that, and then clicking on these links you don't remember, you think it might have been you?
[01:25:54] Patrick Clancy: I have no idea. Okay.
[01:25:59] Speaker 5: Now you talked about Lindsey's stay at McLean Hospital. You said that it was a locked ward she had to stay there, is that correct?
[01:26:10] Patrick Clancy: Correct.
[01:26:11] Speaker 5: But it was a voluntary commitment, wasn't it?
[01:26:15] Patrick Clancy: Yeah.
[01:26:16] Speaker 5: You didn't file any legal paperwork to have her committed, correct?
[01:26:20] Patrick Clancy: Correct.
[01:26:21] Speaker 5: There was no court order making her stay there, correct?
[01:26:23] Patrick Clancy: Correct.
[01:26:24] Speaker 5: So if she wanted to leave and expressed to the doctors that she wanted to leave, and they didn't believe she was a danger to herself or others, she could leave, correct?
[01:26:33] Patrick Clancy: To be honest, I don't know. Okay.
[01:26:37] Speaker 5: Now, you stated on direct examination that you visited her two times during the time that she was there at McLean, right?
[01:26:45] Patrick Clancy: At least twice, yeah.
[01:26:46] Speaker 5: And you said those were in the evening hours, is that correct?
[01:26:49] Patrick Clancy: Yeah, afternoon and evening.
[01:26:51] Speaker 5: Afternoon and evening. So you weren't there during the morning and early afternoon hours when they were offering these group therapies and when she was meeting with other practitioners? I wasn't there in the morning.
[01:27:02] Patrick Clancy: Okay.
[01:27:03] Speaker 5: And were you there during the ... when the staff was checking on her every 15 minutes?
[01:27:09] Patrick Clancy: No, but she did tell me about that. Okay.
[01:27:12] Speaker 5: And were you aware that she was evaluated several times and at first she had to stay on the unit, but then eventually, based on what she was telling them, she was allowed to go on the grounds with staff?
[01:27:22] Patrick Clancy: I was aware that she went on at least, I think at least one walk.
[01:27:27] Speaker ?: Okay.
[01:27:28] Speaker 5: And so people were seeing her and interacting with her and changing the way her stay went at McLean Hospital throughout her stay?
[01:27:37] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. Yeah.
[01:27:39] Speaker 5: And you talked about Dr. Goodhart recommending medications. What was the medication that you said that she recommended?
[01:27:48] Patrick Clancy: I thought it was Cymbalta, but I think she ended up taking amitriptyline.
[01:27:58] Speaker 5: So, looking here at the CVS records that you provided, we see ... I'm sorry. Here we go. So, we see here ... here we go ... Aliyah Goodhart, second from the bottom. Yep. Trazodone, 50 milligrams. So, you thought that Dr. Goodhart had just recommended medication when there was actually a prescription that was given by Dr. Goodhart, correct?
[01:28:45] Patrick Clancy: Right. But I believe ... so there's another one as well, lorazepam. Yes. I believe those were prescribed while she was staying there.
[01:28:52] Speaker 5: And so, they were filled at CVS and sent to McLean?
[01:28:58] Patrick Clancy: Possibly. I remember there was an issue where she didn't have her medications when she went to McLean, so she needed them to be brought there.
[01:29:08] Speaker 5: She was discharged on January 5th, correct? Right. Are you aware that this document from CVS says that the prescription for trazodone 50 milligrams prescribed by Dr. Aliyah Goodhart was filled on January 5th, 2023? Right.
[01:29:22] Patrick Clancy: Okay.
[01:29:23] Speaker 5: And then the other prescription by Dr. Goodhart, the lorazepam was also, one milligram lorazepam, was also filled on January 5th, 2023, correct?
[01:29:35] Patrick Clancy: Yeah.
[01:29:36] Speaker 5: So that's when she was discharged, not while she was staying there, correct? Right.
[01:29:40] Patrick Clancy: That's correct.
[01:29:41] Speaker 5: So Dr. Goodhart did that prescribed medication for Lindsay, trazodone and Ativan, and not Cymbalta, correct?
[01:29:50] Patrick Clancy: She recommended Cymbalta, but she wasn't the one who prescribed that.
[01:29:54] Speaker 5: In fact, no one prescribed that, correct?
[01:29:57] Patrick Clancy: Because it ended up switching to amitriptyline.
[01:30:01] Speaker 5: Okay. And the amitriptyline was prescribed by Dr. Jennifer Tufts, correct?
[01:30:06] Patrick Clancy: Right.
[01:30:07] Speaker 5: And that, and Dr. Tufts prescribed five milligrams of diazepam on January 9th, 2023, correct?
[01:30:30] Speaker ?: Right.
[01:30:31] Speaker 5: And amitriptyline on January 16th, it was 10 milligrams of amitriptyline. And that was prescribed when Lindsay said she was having some issues with depression, correct? Correct. Okay. So she went to McLean Hospital, and she was weaned off the Seroquel, correct?
[01:30:53] Patrick Clancy: I believe so, yeah.
[01:30:55] Speaker 5: And all the medications that she had taken prior to going to McLean, she was no longer on, those were gone, correct? Once she had been in McLean.
[01:31:03] Patrick Clancy: I don't know if it was, I'm not sure, I don't know if it was all of them.
[01:31:07] Speaker 5: Well, are you, did you have conversations with your wife about what she was taking? I mean, were you aware that she was only on, only prescribed trazodone and Ativan when she left McLean, and then amitriptyline was only added on the 16th? So just those three medications?
[01:31:26] Patrick Clancy: Yeah, but I think, I thought she was taking trazodone before McLean.
[01:31:30] Speaker 5: Right. So she had been prescribed it before and stopped taking it, correct?
[01:31:34] Patrick Clancy: I don't remember, I'd have to look back on records.
[01:31:37] Speaker 5: So you're not sure about what she was taking and when, are you?
[01:31:41] Patrick Clancy: Not the exact dates, but I remember she was taking trazodone, and I thought she was taking it before McLean.
[01:31:47] Speaker 5: So the best resource of what she was prescribed and when would most likely be the doctors and the CVS records then, correct?
[01:31:55] Patrick Clancy: The CVS records is a good resource.
[01:32:00] Speaker 5: And you talked about the pills and how these were pills that she was no longer on, so it wasn't really a good representation of what she had taken, correct?
[01:32:15] Patrick Clancy: Correct.
[01:32:16] Speaker 5: But she was only prescribed Zoloft once, right, at the very beginning?
[01:32:20] Patrick Clancy: Right.
[01:32:21] Speaker 5: And she only took seven of those pills, correct?
[01:32:23] Patrick Clancy: Right.
[01:32:24] Speaker 5: So it wasn't as if she was prescribed a higher dose or a different dose of Zoloft and was still taking that, and so that seven pills misrepresents the Zoloft she took, right?
[01:32:36] Patrick Clancy: I believe she switched because, or she stopped because she was switched to Prozac.
[01:32:41] Speaker 5: Okay. And then even going forward, the Prozac, there weren't many pills taken out of that either, correct?
[01:32:47] Patrick Clancy: Yeah, eventually she stopped that as well. Okay.
[01:32:49] Speaker 5: So she'd take a few pills, she'd have some side effects, they'd switch the medication, correct? Yes. And so they were trying to figure out what would work for her, correct? Yeah.
[01:32:59] Patrick Clancy: Okay.
[01:33:00] Speaker 5: And then she ends up at McLean because she's having difficulties, according to her, with the Seroquel, correct? That was part of it, yeah. And they wean her off of that, right? Yep.
[01:33:11] Patrick Clancy: Yep.
[01:33:12] Speaker 5: And then after McLean, she's only on the Trazodone, the Ativan, and then on the 16th, adding in the Amitriptyline, correct? Right. You mentioned that you went to New York in November of 2022. Defense counsel said that was a month before the children were killed, but that's actually two months before they were killed, correct?
[01:33:36] Patrick Clancy: It was, yeah, it was about a little more than two months.
[01:33:40] Speaker 5: And she hadn't been on the Seroquel yet, right?
[01:33:43] Patrick Clancy: I don't know exactly when she started the Seroquel.
[01:33:48] Speaker 5: Would December sound right?
[01:33:51] Patrick Clancy: Yeah, or end of November, yeah.
[01:33:53] Speaker 5: And so when you took your trip to New York, she was having some issues, but she was doing okay, wasn't she?
[01:34:01] Patrick Clancy: She was doing much better than she was in December.
[01:34:04] Speaker 5: Okay. And did you also take another trip with Cora in November?
[01:34:10] Patrick Clancy: Yeah, so I did the trip to New York, and as soon as I got back, went to bed, and then the next morning left with Cora.
[01:34:17] Speaker 5: And was that November 4th through the 7th to San Francisco?
[01:34:20] Patrick Clancy: Yeah.
[01:34:21] Speaker 5: And who was taking care of Dawson and Callan while you were in San Francisco with Cora?
[01:34:27] Patrick Clancy: Lindsey.
[01:34:28] Speaker 5: And so during your trip to New York, and then immediately after your trip to San Francisco with Cora, were there any issues or any problems, or did anything happen while Lindsey was caring for those kids?
[01:34:41] Patrick Clancy: Nothing bad happened. I would say her anxiety and depression was starting to tick up, but yeah, obviously nothing bad happened.
[01:34:50] Speaker 5: Okay. And it's your testimony that things started to get worse in December. Is that correct?
[01:34:57] Patrick Clancy: Correct.
[01:34:58] Speaker 5: But it was also your testimony that after the stay at McLean, things got better, wasn't it? Yeah. And she steadily progressed throughout January, getting better, right?
[01:35:08] Patrick Clancy: Definitely, yeah.
[01:35:09] Speaker 5: And on January 24th, 2023, you testified that that was one of her best stays.
[01:35:15] Patrick Clancy: Yeah.
[01:35:16] Speaker ?: Okay.
[01:35:17] Speaker 5: You were asked about the Apple Watch. The police didn't collect the Apple Watch, right? They did collect her phone, correct? You identified it earlier, right?
[01:35:29] Patrick Clancy: Correct, yeah.
[01:35:30] Speaker 5: And her Apple Watch was linked to her phone, was it not?
[01:35:33] Patrick Clancy: It probably was, yeah.
[01:35:35] Speaker 5: You were also asked about the drop from the second floor window. Were you aware that the measurement from the windowsill to the ground was actually 12 feet?
[01:35:49] Patrick Clancy: I've never measured it, but yeah, I believe what you're saying.
[01:35:54] Speaker 5: And...
[01:36:04] Speaker 1: I was looking for one of the exhibits from defense counsel. It's the... Yes.
[01:36:19] Speaker 5: Exhibit 84. This was the packet here that defense counsel was going through with you, where you said this is Lindsay writing Kellan's schedule, is that right?
[01:36:32] Patrick Clancy: Right.
[01:36:33] Speaker 5: But this was also Lindsay sending notes back and forth between herself and Elaine. Is that correct? Possibly. There's different writing here, correct? If you want to look at it. Yeah. For example, this first page after the cover, we have writing here that you said was Lindsay's, correct? It looks like it, yeah. And then down here, there's a note that's in different handwriting, correct?
[01:36:57] Patrick Clancy: Yeah, I would say so.
[01:36:58] Speaker 5: Okay. So were you aware that Lindsay was using this notebook to communicate back and forth with the nanny about Helen's care? She had different notebooks. She always had a notebook that she would leave for the babysitter or for me.
[01:37:11] Patrick Clancy: And so, for example, on Tuesday, September 4th, she wrote, "Last Fed at 6 AM. Give him a bottle. Whenever he wakes up, he likes it very warm. He's been resisting the bottle. If he won't drink it after 45 minutes of trying, please text me to let me know. Put down for next nap one hour after he wakes.
[01:37:25] Speaker 5: Try to put down drowsy but awake. But if he cries, pick him up and rock, bounce, or hold him until sleep, then put down. He usually sleeps 45 minutes, but let him sleep as long as he wants." Very detailed notes that Lindsay is sending to the nanny, correct? Yeah. And then she also wrote, "If you have time, wash and cut up veggies, sweet potatoes, one-inch cubes peeled. Broccoli, small pieces. Peppers, one-inch pieces. Plastic Ziploc bags to put them in. Next bottle, two and a half hours after the first bottle." Correct?
[01:38:09] Patrick Clancy: I believe what you're reading, yeah.
[01:38:11] Speaker 5: So very particular about what she wanted the nanny to do, how she wanted her to do it, and when to feed Callan, when to put him down for a nap, all of those things. Very particular, correct? Sounds like it, yeah. Again, Thursday, September 29, 2022. Callan last fed at 8:45. Please put him down for a nap at 9:35. We will be home from gymnastics at 11:45. Clean clothes and dry if you get to it. So again, very specific times for putting him down and when to get up and asking her to do additional work like laundry and things like that, correct? Yeah. Again, October 6, 8 at 8:15, fell asleep at 8:40. Changing table is now in the bathroom. If he wakes before 9:40, give him 15 minutes to settle himself back to sleep. I'm hoping he will sleep until 10:15. If he is still asleep at 10:40, wake him. Feeding at 11:00 a.m. First try bottle. If he doesn't take it after 15 minutes, make oatmeal. Two tablespoons of oatmeal. Make thin with breast milk. Can heat for 5 to 10 seconds. Again, very specific directions on what she wants done and how she wants Callan cared for, correct? Yeah. And throughout this notebook, it's more of the same, correct? Or have you even seen that?
[01:39:30] Speaker ?: I haven't seen it. Yeah.
[01:39:30] Speaker 5: tablespoons of oatmeal, made thin with breast milk, can heat for five to ten seconds, get very specific directions on what she wants done and how she wants Callum cared for, correct? Yeah. And throughout this notebook, it's more of the same, correct? Or have you even seen that? I haven't seen it. Yeah. I have nothing further. Thank you. Which nanny was that? That would have been
[01:40:00] Patrick Clancy: Elaine Rossi. And Elaine Rossi, how long was she the nanny for you guys? A month or two. Yeah, probably two months. And then she just needed more hours and moved on and Lindsay was home, so. Yeah, I think she preferred more hours. We couldn't really give it to her and Lindsay was home anyway, so. And as far as the records are concerned, is it fair to say that Lindsay has a concerned mother would give instructions to people that would be taking care of her infant? Yeah, I
[01:40:30] Speaker 3: would have done the same. A lot of discussion about these prescriptions and scripts from the different doctors. And one of the things you referenced was that you believed that she was on trazodone. And if I suggest to you that there was a doctor, Izad Parayarara, Kavon, on November 16th of 22, that prescribed 50 milligrams of trazodone while she was on buspirone and throxetine. Does that refresh your memory that in November she was prescribed 50 grams as a trazodone? Yeah, I remember trazodone being like a part of the medication plan for a while. And one of the things that you did as we talked about is you went to CVS and you got a list of all the drugs, right? Right. And if I suggest to you, sir, that this is just an easy reference with different colors for different doctors of exactly what the CVS provided, does that appear to be very accurate on the scripts that we've read? Yeah. Can I see which one?
[01:41:30] Speaker 2: One minus, please. No objection. Okay, that may be admitted. That's all I have, sir. Thank you. Okay. All right. Thank you, sir. You may step down. Thank you. Thanks, ma'am. Council, could I see you? Tomorrow morning. The hope is to start about 9. Kind of the same thing. We'll go to hopefully about 11. Take a break at 11. We'll have a break from 1 to 2. And we'll go into the afternoon around 3 or 4. All right? So that's the thing. Remember, I'm going to ask you those questions about not talking about the case, not doing any research about it. I don't watch anything about it. You still have to keep an open mind. At this point, you've heard some evidence, but you haven't heard all the evidence. You haven't heard the law that you are to apply to the evidence. So you've got to, at this point, you've got to keep struggling in a sense. Keep that open mind. So I'm going to excuse you. I hope you have a nice evening. We'll come back here tomorrow morning. If I forget to tell you, tomorrow, Friday, we're still on schedule to take that view. And then we'll deal with the schedule when you come in tomorrow. But that's the best I can tell you, that's the schedule for tomorrow. So again, thank you so much for all your work on this case so far. I hope you have a nice evening. We'll see you tomorrow.
[01:43:02] Speaker 3: All right. All right. Good. Those are no folks. Those are no chairs, please.
[01:43:08] Speaker ?: All right.
[01:43:37] Speaker 2: All right. So we'll be in recess on this matter until tomorrow morning at nine o'clock.