The Beat With Ari Melber 7/7/26 — 🅼🆂🅽🅱️🅲 Breaking News Today July 7, 2026

[0:00] THANK YOU FOR JOINING US. [0:02] THANK YOU FOR JOINING US. [0:04] IT STARTS RIGHT NOW. [0:05] HI, ARRIE. [0:06] THANK YOU SO MUCH. [0:07] WELCOME TO THE BEAT. [0:08] I'M ARRIE MELBURGH. [0:09] WE HAVE A LOT OF NEWS TO COVER. [0:11] ON MANY NIGHTS ON THIS AND OTHER [0:13] PROGRAMS WE DRAW ON REPORTING [0:15] FROM SOME OF THE TOP NEWSPAPERS [0:17] IN THE COUNTRY. [0:18] TONIGHT WE WILL BE JOINED BY TWO [0:20] OF THE TOP JOURNALISTS FROM THE [0:22] NEW YORK TIMES. [0:23] YOU KNOW THEIR NAMES AND BYLINES, [0:25] MAGGIE HABERMAN AND JONATHAN SWAN. [0:27] THEIR BEST SELLING NEW BOOK, [0:29] WE'LL GET INTO THE SUBSTANCE, [0:31] THE MEAT, THE REPORTING ON THAT [0:32] IN A MOMENT. [0:33] SO THANKS TO BOTH OF OUR GUESTS [0:35] FOR STANDING BY. [0:36] BEFORE WE GET TO THEM, WE BEGIN [0:38] WITH THE VERY LATEST IN THE U.S. [0:39] HITTING IRAN WITH A SERIES OF [0:41] WHAT ARE CALLED POWERFUL STRIKES [0:42] LATE TODAY. [0:43] A REMINDER THAT WHILE MANY PEOPLE [0:45] FROM WASHINGTON TO THE BUSINESS [0:47] COMMUNITY HAVE SORT OF PRICED IN [0:49] AND EXPECTED FULL CEASE-FIRE TO [0:51] HOLD, THIS IS STILL A VERY [0:53] UNPREDICTABLE SITUATION. [0:54] IT'S RETALIATION FOR IRAN'S [0:56] ATTACKS ON WHAT ARE COMMERCIAL [0:57] VESSELS IN THE STRAIGHT, THAT [0:59] IS ACCORDING TO THE U.S. CENTRAL [1:00] COMMAND. [1:01] THE PRESIDENT IS IN TURKEY FOR [1:03] THE NATO SUMMIT. [1:04] HE HAS BEEN CLASHING WITH ALLIES [1:05] THERE, REPORTEDLY FURIOUS THAT [1:07] OTHER COUNTRIES DID NOT HELP HIM [1:08] FIGHT THE WAY HE WANTED, [1:09] REGARDLESS OF WHAT MANY EXPERTS [1:11] SAID WAS A FAILURE TO DO THE [1:13] GROUNDWORK TO BUILD THE [1:14] COALITION ON THAT WAR AND FRANKLY [1:16] A RANGE OF OTHER INTERNATIONAL [1:17] ISSUES. [1:18] THERE'S ALSO REPORTING HOW PEOPLE [1:20] THAT HAVE BEEN SEEN AS TRUMP'S [1:21] ALLIES OVER MANY YEARS IN THE U.S., [1:23] INCLUDING TUCKER CARLSON, WERE [1:28] VERY MUCH AGAINST NOT ONLY THE [1:31] IRAN WAR BUT THE BASIC EXPECTED [1:33] FALLOUT WHICH WE'RE NOW LIVING [1:34] THROUGH. [1:35] THERE'S A REPORT IN THAT CARLSON [1:36] SAID YOU'RE GOING TO DESTROY [1:37] YOUR PRESIDENCY. [1:38] YOU WON'T DO ANYTHING AFTER [1:39] THIS. [1:40] IF YOU GET INTO A QUOTE REGIME [1:42] CHANGE WAR WITH IRAN, IT'S OVER. [1:44] YOU WILL NOTE WHAT MANY COULD [1:46] SEE AS A DOUBLE ENTENDRE THERE. [1:47] THAT IS THE TITLE OF COURSE OF [1:49] THE BIG HABERMAN SWAN BOOK. [1:51] NOW, TRUMP DID NOT, OF COURSE, [1:53] HEED THOSE WARNINGS. [1:54] IF YOU ARE LOOKING AT THIS AS [1:56] JUST A MATTER OF HOW THE [1:57] GOVERNMENT WORKS, YOU COULD SAY [1:58] FINE, THE PRESIDENT MADE UP HIS [1:59] OWN MIND. [2:00] HE DIDN'T LISTEN TO A POLITICAL [2:02] ALLY OR A MEMBER OF THE MEDIA. [2:04] OF COURSE, THERE'S ALSO A LOT [2:06] OF REPORTING ABOUT HOW MANY [2:07] PEOPLE WHO WERE EVEN ALIGNED [2:09] WITH TRUMP'S GENERAL AGENDA [2:10] WARNED ABOUT HOW THE WAY HE [2:12] PLANNED TO GO INTO IRAN, THE [2:14] NATURE OF THE KIND OF RUSHED AND [2:20] EMOTIONAL OR KIND OF AGGRAVATED [2:21] ASSAULT ON THIS COUNTRY WITHOUT [2:22] A LONG-TERM PLAN AND A PLAN B [2:24] WAS DANGEROUS. [2:25] AND THE PATTERN OF IGNORING [2:28] EXPERTISE OR INPUT IS A KIND OF [2:30] A PATTERN OF THE SECOND TERM [2:31] GOVERNING. [2:32] TRUMP DOES TAKE SOME BIG SWINGS. [2:35] IF YOU HEAR HIS ALLIES TELL IT, [2:37] HE DOES WHAT HE SAID HE WOULD [2:39] DO. [2:40] WHETHER HE WINS OR NOT, HE STARTED A [2:42] TRADE WAR JUST LIKE HE SAID HE [2:43] WOULD. [2:44] HE SAID HE SAID HE SAID HE WOULD [2:46] TAKE SOMEBODY. [2:47] HE SAID HE SAID HE WOULD [2:49] TAKE SOMEBODY. [2:50] HE SAID HE SAID HE WOULD [2:51] TAKE SOMEBODY. [2:52] LOOK TO EXAMPLES LIKE THAT. [2:53] BUT THERE ARE MANY OTHER BIG [2:54] SWINGS THAT FALTER. [2:55] FOR EXAMPLE, DONALD TRUMP AT [2:57] TREMENDOUS COST TO HIS AGENDA, [2:58] HIS SO-CALLED POLITICAL CAPITAL [2:59] TO WASHINGTON, EVEN AMONG SOME [3:00] REPUBLICANS, HAS REPEATEDLY [3:02] PUSHED THE DOJ TO DO THINGS THAT [3:05] IT SHOULD NOT, LEGALLY CANNOT, [3:07] AND OFTEN ARE NOT ABLE TO DO. [3:09] BUT IF HE SAID HE WOULD NOT [3:11] WANT TO DO PASS THE DOJ TO DO. [3:13] HE DIDN'T HAVE GOTTEN ANYWHERE, [3:15] LET ALONE TOWARDS CONVICTIONS. [3:16] HE ALSO LAUNCHED, OF COURSE, [3:17] THAT RUSHED DOGE MUSK EFFORT. [3:18] THE INITIATIVE JUST SHUTTERED [3:20] THIS WEEKEND. [3:21] MANY ESTIMATES SAY IT DIDN'T [3:22] PRODUCE THE SAVINGS PROMISED. [3:24] THERE WAS TAXPAYER MONEY SPENT [3:26] THAT'S BETWEEN HIM AND ELON MUSK LECTURING EVERYONE ABOUT GOVERNMENT SPENDING, AND THEN DONALD TRUMP SPENDING YOUR TAX DOLLARS ON THE REFLECTING POOL, ON HIS VANITY PROJECTS, ON CONSTRUCTION AT THE WHITE HOUSE THAT NOBODY ASKED FOR. [3:39] AS FOR THE TRADE WAR, THE SUPREME COURT BASICALLY STOPPED THE KEY PARTS OF IT. [3:43] AND THEN THERE'S THE PROFIT TEARING. [3:45] THIS ISN'T SO MUCH ABOUT GOVERNMENT DECISION MAKING AS IT IS THE OLDEST TRICK IN THE BOOK, WHICH IS IF THE PEOPLE HAVE SOME POWER OVER YOUR MONEY, WHY DON'T THEY JUST TAKE IT? [3:54] OUR SYSTEM OF GOVERNMENT IS SUPPOSED TO HAVE CHECKS AND BALANCES FOR THAT, BUT THROUGH CRYPTO AND OTHER MEANS, DONALD TRUMP HAS SHOWN HIS GUILE, HIS SORT OF CLEVERNESS AT A MINIMUM AT SELF-ENRICHMENT. [4:06] MSNOW HAS INTERVIEWED SEVERAL TRUMP SUPPORTERS WHO SAY THAT THEY'RE UPSET ABOUT A RANGE OF THINGS, BUT ESPECIALLY WHAT IS CURRENTLY THE TRUMP ECONOMY. [4:14] I FEEL LIKE, MAN, IT'S A RECESSION, MAN. I AIN'T NEVER FELT THAT BEFORE. I FEEL IT NOW. I FEEL IT NOW. [4:22] IT'S ALMOST LIKE THE POOR ARE GETTING POORER AND THE RICH ARE GETTING RICHER. [4:25] EVERYTHING IN AMERICA RIGHT NOW IS RIDICULOUS. IT REALLY IS. [4:29] EVERYTHING IS GOING UP. YOU CAN BELIEF AFFORD THINGS. [4:34] I THINK, YOU KNOW, THE WAY PEOPLE FEEL ABOUT THE ECONOMY, LIKE, IT LOOKS GOOD ON PAPER, BUT PEOPLE ARE REALLY STRUGGLING. [4:39] WE'RE JOINED NOW BY MAGGIE HABERMAN AND JONATHAN SWAN, THE WHITE HOUSE REPORTERS FOR THE NEW YORK TIMES, WHO I JUST QUOTED IN SOME OF THIS LEAD. [4:48] THEY'RE COAUTHORS OF THE BOOK I MENTIONED, REGIME CHANGE INSIDE THE IMPERIAL PRESIDENCY OF DONALD TRUMP. [4:54] WELCOME TO BOTH OF YOU. MAGGIE, WHEN YOU LOOK AT JUST SOME OF WHAT'S GOING ON TODAY, INCLUDING HOW PRESIDENT TRUMP IS APPROACHING THE WORLD STAGE, FROM MATTERS SIGNIFICANT LIKE WAR AND NATO, TO WHAT SOME WOULD SAY OPTIONAL CLASHES LIKE WHETHER TO INTERVENE IN THE WORLD CUP, WHAT FROM YOUR REPORTING, THE MANY SOURCES YOU SPOKE TO, SORT OF INFORMS OR GIVE US A LENS FOR WHAT WE'RE SEEING? [5:16] SO YOU MENTIONED THE TITLE OF THE BOOK AS A DOUBLE ENTENDRE. AGAIN, THANK YOU FOR HAVING US. [5:22] WE'D ACTUALLY THOUGHT OF THIS TITLE LONG BEFORE TRUMP WENT INTO CARACAS TO SNATCH NICOLAS MADURO, BECAUSE IT OCCURRED TO US EARLY ON IN THE PRESIDENCY THAT WHAT WE WERE COVERING WAS A FORMER REGIME CHANGE IN OUR OWN COUNTRY, A FORM OF A DIFFERENT KIND OF AMERICAN STYLE DEMOCRACY. [5:39] THIS WAS NOT A DEMOCRAT TO A REPUBLICAN, MARGINAL POLICY. [5:46] TRUMP IS EXPANDING EXECUTIVE POWER IN MASSIVE, MASSIVE, MASSIVE WAYS, SOMETIMES AFFIRMED BY THE SUPREME COURT, SOMETIMES NOT, BUT HE HAS TAKEN A LOT OF BIG SWINGS. [5:55] AND IN CASES LIKE YOU JUST MENTIONED, FOR INSTANCE, WITH THE REVENGE PROSECUTIONS, THE PROCESS IS ACTUALLY INTENDED TO BE THE PUNISHMENT, AND WE TALK ABOUT THAT IN THE BOOK, NUMBER ONE. [6:06] AND WE TALK ABOUT THAT IN THE BOOK, NUMBER ONE, AND WE TALK ABOUT THAT IN IRAN, HE IS OPERATING ON GUT, AS YOU SAY, IN A WAY THAT WE REALLY DIDN'T SEE IN TERM ONE. [6:13] THIS WAS A DECISION THAT HE MADE DESPITE THE FACT THAT NOBODY IN HIS GOVERNMENT THOUGHT IT WAS A GOOD IDEA. [6:18] HE'S NOW ANGRY, AS YOU SAY, HE DIDN'T MAKE A CASE TO THE PUBLIC ABOUT WHY THEY SHOULD BE WITH HIM, BECAUSE HE BELIEVED THIS WAS GOING TO END QUICKLY, BASED ON A FEELING, BASED ON HIS IMPULSE. [6:30] AND HE WAS VERY CLEAR ABOUT THAT WITH PEOPLE, AND YOU ARE NOW SEEING THE RESULT OF THAT. [6:36] AND YOU ARE SEEING THE RESULT OF THAT. [6:38] AND YOU ARE SEEING THE RESULT OF THAT. [6:40] AND YOU ARE SEEING THE RESULT OF THAT. [6:43] JONATHAN, MAGGIE MENTIONS IT, AND THE BOOK REALLY MAKES THE EVIDENCE-BACKED CASE THAT SEPARATE FROM IDEOLOGY AND RED-BLUE, WHICH WE HEAR SO MUCH ABOUT, [6:49] RIGHT? [6:50] AND YOU ARE SEEING THE RESULT OF THE [6:55] WEEKEND THAT IS GOING TO BE SOME OF THE [6:57] RESULTS, AND THE REPUBLICANS UNDER THIS [6:59] PRESIDENT, IS EXPERIMENTING WITH, OR RAMMING lHOME, A DIFFERENT WAY TO RUN THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. [7:04] THAT IS STRUCTURALLY IN TERMS OF WHERE POWER OPERATES, HOW LITTLE CAN REALLY MEANINGFULLY BE DONE AT THE [7:08] CAN YOU TELL US MORE ABOUT THAT BECAUSE IT IS DISTINCT FROM SO MUCH OF THE IDEOLOGICAL DISCOURSE AROUND TRUMP? [7:15] YEAH, I MEAN, IT'S A VERY COMPLICATED STORY AND THERE ARE SO MANY ELEMENTS TO IT. [7:20] BUT I'LL JUST GIVE YOU ONE EXAMPLE FROM YOUR, YOU MENTIONED IT IN YOUR INTRODUCTION. [7:26] WE'VE ALL SORT OF MEMORY HOLD DOGE, YOU KNOW, WE'VE SORT OF FORGOTTEN ABOUT DOGE. [7:31] BUT FOR A FEW MONTHS LAST YEAR, TRUMP ESSENTIALLY APPOINTED ELON MUSK AS A SORT OF CO-PRESIDENT, [7:39] THE RICHEST MAN IN THE WORLD WHO HAD NOT DIVESTED FROM ANY OF HIS BUSINESS INTERESTS, [7:46] WHO WAS PLACING PEOPLE THROUGHOUT THE GOVERNMENT. [7:49] AND, YES, HE DIDN'T, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF THE STUFF THAT HE WANTED TO DO DIDN'T GET DONE. [7:54] BUT I'LL JUST GIVE YOU ONE EXAMPLE OF SOMETHING THAT DID GET DONE. [7:58] AND, AGAIN, PEOPLE DON'T REALLY EVEN TALK ABOUT IT ANYMORE. [8:01] IT'S BEEN, YOU KNOW, CONSUMED WITH SO MANY OTHER ISSUES. [8:04] USAID, A GOVERNMENT AGENCY DESIGNED TO HELP THE WORLD'S POOREST PEOPLE, [8:11] FOREIGN AID, SET UP BY CONGRESS, THEY JUST SHUT IT DOWN. [8:15] THEY DIDN'T TALK TO CONGRESS. [8:17] THEY DIDN'T TALK TO ANYONE. [8:18] THEY JUST SHUT IT DOWN ESSENTIALLY OVER A WEEKEND. [8:20] MUSK DID. [8:22] RUBIO, THE SECRETARY OF STATE, WASN'T EVEN REALLY THAT INVOLVED IN THAT. [8:25] HE HAD TO TAKE OVER THE REMNANTS OF USAID. [8:28] MOST OF ITS FUNCTIONS HAVE BEEN DISAPPEARED. [8:31] AND, YOU KNOW, THE SORT OF THE DREGS OF IT HAS BEEN ABSORBED INTO THE STATE DEPARTMENT. [8:36] THAT'S ONE EXAMPLE. [8:37] I COULD GO THROUGH, YOU KNOW, ENDLESS EXAMPLES. [8:40] BUT THE MACRO STORY IS CONGRESS, AN ENTIRE BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT LAST YEAR, [8:47] LED BY REPUBLICANS, ESSENTIALLY JUST SEATED THE FIELD. [8:50] AND SO THAT, AS A CHECK ON TRUMP, JUST ESSENTIALLY EVAPORATED. [8:55] YOU'RE SEEING A LITTLE BIT OF IT NOW COME BACK WITH THE SENATE, BUT, YOU KNOW, ONLY A LITTLE BIT. [8:59] AND THE ONLY INSTITUTION THAT THE TRUMP TEAM HAVE REALLY RESPECTED AND NOT, YOU KNOW, DEFIED OR TRIED TO BULLDOZE IS THE SUPREME COURT. [9:09] BUT AT THE LOWER COURT LEVEL, THEY'VE IGNORED TONS OF RULINGS. [9:12] YOU KNOW, PEOPLE HAVE DOCUMENTED THIS IN THE IMMIGRATION SPACE IN PARTICULAR. [9:17] PEOPLE HAVE BEEN LANGUISHING IN THESE DETENTION CENTERS, NOT GETTING HEARINGS. [9:21] AND SO IT'S NOT JUST THAT HE'S IGNORING OR BULLDOZING NORMS. [9:25] THEY'RE ACTUALLY REALLY STRETCHING THE LAW IN VERY SIGNIFICANT WAYS. [9:29] MAGGIE, HOW ABOUT THAT? [9:32] LOOK, AT THE BEGINNING OF HIS TERM, I'LL GIVE YOU ANOTHER EXAMPLE, TRUMP FIRED A NUMBER OF INSPECTORS GENERAL. [9:40] IT WAS ACTUALLY IMPOSSIBLE, AT LEAST IN THOSE DAYS, INITIALLY, TO LEARN EXACTLY WHO HAD BEEN FIRED. [9:45] THE GOVERNMENT COULDN'T EVEN GIVE YOU A SPECIFIC EXAMPLE OR A SPECIFIC HARD NUMBER. [9:49] THE PROCESS, THE LAW, IS THAT THE WHITE HOUSE IS SUPPOSED TO NOTIFY CONGRESS. [9:53] THERE IS SUPPOSED TO BE 30 DAYS. [9:55] AND THERE'S SUPPOSED TO BE A REASON GIVEN. [9:57] NONE OF THAT WAS DONE. [9:59] CHUCK GRASSLEY, WHO IS NORMALLY THE SENATOR FROM IOWA, NORMALLY VERY MUCH A STICKLER FOR PROCESS, [10:05] DID SOME MILD COMPLAINING, BUT THAT WAS ABOUT IT. [10:07] AND YOU SAW THERE THAT THEY WERE GOING TO DO WHAT THEY WANTED TO DO. [10:12] INSPECTORS GENERAL WERE A THORN IN TRUMP'S SIDE IN TERM ONE. [10:15] THEY ACTUALLY ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR SOME ACCOUNTABILITY AND OVERSIGHT OVER AGENCIES. [10:20] THEY EXIST IN A RUMP STATE NOW. [10:23] WE'VE BEEN A RUMP STATE IN TERMS OF PEOPLE. [10:26] AND SO MOST MEASURES OF ACCOUNTABILITY, PARTICULARLY ONES POST WATERGATE, BUT NOT ONLY, [10:29] HAVE BEEN ERADICATED OR RUN OVER. [10:31] AND BY THE TIME, AS JOHNTHAN MENTIONED, THE SUPREME COURT, THE ONLY ENTITY THAT THEY REALLY [10:35] LISTENED TO CATCHES UP, SO MUCH IS DONE. [10:39] LIKE THE EAST WING HAS BEEN TORN DOWN. [10:42] OR I CAN GO ON AND ON, BUT THOSE ARE EXAMPLES. [10:44] WE CAN GO ON AND ON BECAUSE WE [10:47] SET ASIDE TIME FOR THIS TO NERD [10:49] OUT A LITTLE BIT, MAGGIE. [10:51] THANK YOU. [10:53] AGAIN, THERE'S SO MUCH IN [10:55] POLITICS THAT IS THE NOISE AND [10:57] WE ALL TALK TO SOURCES AND [10:59] SOMETIMES SOURCES WILL SAY, WELL, [11:01] LET ME GO OFF THE RECORD AND [11:03] THEN THEY'LL SAY SOMETHING LIKE [11:05] AND THIS COULD BE FOR ANY [11:06] POLITICIAN, YOU KNOW, MY BOSS IS [11:08] ACTUALLY REALLY THOUGHTFUL. [11:09] HE'S REALLY THINKING HARD ABOUT [11:11] THIS AND IT'S REALLY HE WANTS TO [11:13] DO RIGHT BY THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. [11:14] YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, THE [11:16] INSPECTORS GENERAL OF ANY [11:17] AGENCY AND I REMEMBER QUITE [11:19] VIVIDLY WHEN TRUMP WAS TALKING [11:20] ABOUT, YOU KNOW, HOROWITZ IS [11:22] PRETTY GOOD. [11:23] YOU KNOW, THERE'S SO MUCH [11:24] CRAP. [11:25] AND YOU GUYS HAVE FOUND A WAY TO [11:27] CUT THROUGH THAT AND GET A LOT [11:29] OF REAL REPORTING DONE THROUGH [11:30] SOURCES AND THE RELATIONSHIPS [11:31] YOU HAVE. [11:32] AND WHEN YOU MENTIONED THE [11:34] INSPECTORS GENERAL, I'M CURIOUS, [11:35] MAGGIE, WHAT YOUR SOURCES TOLD [11:37] YOU ABOUT HOW TRUMP DOES ZERO IN [11:39] BECAUSE THERE'S A LOT OF [11:41] POLITICIANS IN WASHINGTON WHO [11:42] HAPPENED. [11:44] I THOUGHT IT WAS A LOT OF [11:45] THINGS THAT HAPPENED. [11:46] I THOUGHT IT WAS A LOT OF [11:48] THINGS THAT HAPPENED. [11:49] HE'S ONE OF THE GOOD ONES AND [11:50] THESE OTHERS AREN'T. [11:51] SO THAT TOLD ME, WOW, DONALD [11:53] TRUMP, WHO PLAYS SOMETIMES A [11:55] VERY BLUSTERING FIFTH GRADE [11:57] LEVEL SPEAKER IN PUBLIC, HAD NOT [11:59] ONLY FIGURED OUT WHO THE DOJ [12:01] IG WAS, BUT DETERMINED THROUGH [12:03] HIS OWN LENS THAT HE PREFERRED [12:05] THOSE OUTCOMES TO IG'S AT OTHER [12:07] DEPARTMENTS AND AGENCIES. [12:08] THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS THAT [12:12] STILL WORK WHERE I HEAR TRUMP [12:13] CRITICIZE HIM ON TERMS THAT HE [12:15] WOULD WELCOME BECAUSE HE WANTS [12:17] TO BE A BLUSTERY BUSINESSMAN, [12:18] AND THERE'S OTHER THINGS TO IT. [12:19] GO AHEAD. [12:21] IT'S A GREAT QUESTION AND [12:22] IT'S ACTUALLY A VERY GOOD [12:23] EXAMPLE. [12:24] ONE OF THE THINGS THAT TRUMP [12:25] SAID MANY, MANY YEARS AGO TO A [12:27] WRITER WHO PASSED AWAY RECENTLY [12:28] WAS THAT HE LIKES TO DO THINGS, [12:30] I'M PARAPHRASING, NICE AND [12:31] COMPLICATED SO NOBODY REALLY [12:32] KNOWS WHAT'S GOING ON. [12:33] AND SO WHAT YOU JUST POINTED TO [12:34] ACTUALLY IS A VERY GOOD [12:35] EXAMPLE OF THAT. [12:36] IT'S A MIXTURE OF FACTORS. [12:38] IT'S NOT A BINARY OF HE KNOWS [12:40] EVERYTHING OR IT'S NOTHING AT [12:42] ALL. [12:43] IN THE CASE OF MICHAEL HOROWITZ, [12:45] THIS WAS THE INSPECTOR GENERAL [12:46] WHEN TRUMP WAS UNDER [12:47] INVESTIGATION IN TERM ONE, WHEN [12:48] TRUMP WANTED TO SEE THE DOJ [12:50] TAKE CERTAIN ACTIONS LIKE [12:51] PROSECUTE JAMES COMEY IN TERM [12:53] ONE. [12:54] AND SO HE REMEMBERS THE REPORT [12:56] ABOUT THAT. [12:57] HE DIDN'T ACTUALLY RECOMMEND [12:59] PROSECUTING COMEY. [13:00] AND WHEN BILL BARR, THEN THE [13:02] ATTORNEY GENERAL, WHO WAS [13:03] HARDLY A SQUISH OR, YOU KNOW, [13:06] HARDLY A LEFTY, IS TELLING [13:08] TRUMP THAT THIS IS NOT GOING [13:10] TO HAPPEN, TRUMP WAS [13:12] INFURIATED. [13:13] SO MICHAEL HOROWITZ IS A [13:14] SPECIFIC ONE THAT STICKS OUT [13:15] IN HIS MIND. [13:16] BUT ON THE OTHER ONES, IT'S [13:18] SOME MIX OF ALLIES WHO HAVE [13:20] ISSUES WITH SPECIFIC PEOPLE, [13:22] HIS OWN PERSONNEL ADVISORS, [13:24] WHICH IS A, YOU KNOW, A SMALL [13:26] GROUP WITHIN THE WHITE HOUSE [13:28] WHO HAVE SPECIFIC INTERESTS [13:29] EITHER IN THE AGENCY OR THEY [13:31] HAVE LOOKED AT THINGS IN THE [13:32] VETTING OF WHAT THESE [13:33] INSPECTORS GENERAL HAVE DONE [13:35] IN THE PAST. [13:36] IT IS A MIX OF DIFFERENT [13:37] FACTORS. [13:38] AND I THINK THAT IF WE WENT [13:39] DOWN THE LIST OR IF WE EVER [13:40] EVEN GOT A FULL LIST, WE WOULD [13:41] BE ABLE TO GO THROUGH IT AND [13:42] THERE WOULD BE DIFFERENT [13:43] REASONS FOR WHY. [13:44] BUT HOROWITZ IS AN EXAMPLE OF [13:46] THE PERSONALIST NATURE OF HOW [13:49] TRUMP IS APPROACHING ABSOLUTELY [13:50] EVERYTHING RIGHT NOW. [13:51] THE OTHER THING THAT'S [13:52] REALLY IMPORTANT WE SHOULD [13:54] GET INTO IN THE BOOK IS THE [13:56] LONG-RANGE PLANNING FOR THIS [13:57] TERM. [13:58] STEPHEN MILLER HAD REALLY [14:00] THOUGHT THROUGH WHAT THEY WERE [14:01] GOING TO DO IN A FEW KEY [14:02] RESPECTS AND ONE OF THEM WHICH I [14:03] THINK IS VERY UNDERREPORTED, WE [14:05] GET INTO IT IN THE BOOK IS THE [14:07] LONG-RANGE PLANNING FOR THIS [14:08] TERM. [14:09] YES. [14:10] STEPHEN MILLER HAD REALLY [14:11] THOUGHT THROUGH WHAT THEY WERE [14:12] GOING TO DO IN A FEW KEY [14:13] RESPECTS AND ONE OF THEM WHICH I [14:14] THINK IS VERY UNDERREPORTED, WE [14:15] GET INTO IT IN THE BOOK IS [14:17] STOCKING THE ADMINISTRATION [14:20] WITH A NEW CAST OF LAWYER, [14:22] DIFFERENT TYPES OF LAWYERS. [14:24] AND, YOU KNOW, MANY PEOPLE [14:26] LIKE THE FEDERALIST SOCIETY AS [14:29] SORT OF DARTH VADER, YOU KNOW, [14:30] THEY STOCKED THE SUPREME COURT [14:32] IN TERM ONE. [14:33] PEOPLE LIKE STEPHEN MILLER VIEW [14:34] THE FEDERALIST SOCIETY AS A [14:35] BUNCH OF SQUISHERS. [14:36] AND ACTUALLY WHAT THEY WANTED [14:38] WAS LAWYERS WHO WERE GOING TO [14:39] BE MUCH MORE AGGRESSIVE IN [14:40] THEIR INTERPRETATIONS OF THE [14:41] LAW, MUCH MORE WILLING TO PUSH [14:43] THE ENVELOPE AND NOT JUST IN [14:45] THE WHITE HOUSE BUT ACROSS THE [14:46] AGENCIES. [14:47] SO WHEN YOU STOCK A [14:48] GOVERNMENT WITH A DIFFERENT [14:49] TYPE OF LAWYER, AS YOU KNOW, [14:51] YOU GET A DIFFERENT TYPE OF [14:53] LEGAL ANALYSIS AND THAT ALLOWS [14:54] YOU TO DO FAR MORE THAN THEY [14:56] COULD DO IN THE FIRST TERM. [14:57] THEY'RE NOT GETTING THE SAME [14:59] SORT OF AGENCY PUSHBACK THAT [15:00] THEY WERE. [15:01] RIGHT. [15:03] I THINK YOU GUYS DOCUMENT [15:04] THAT IN A WAY THAT'S VERY [15:05] USEFUL FOR PEOPLE WHO WANT TO [15:06] LEARN HOW THIS REALLY WORKS. [15:07] THERE'S THE OLD JOKE IN [15:08] BETTER CALL SAUL WHEN HE WANTS [15:09] A LAWYER TO GO EVEN FARTHER [15:10] AND HE SAYS YOU DON'T NEED A [15:12] CRIMINAL LAWYER, YOU NEED A [15:14] CRIMINAL LAWYER. [15:15] THERE ARE PEOPLE LIKE JOHN [15:19] EASTMAN WHO FACED, AND RUDY [15:22] GILANI WHO FACED CIVIL AND BAR [15:24] DISCIPLINE OVER WHETHER THEY [15:25] CROSSED THOSE LINES. [15:26] AND SO THAT ALSO GOES TO ANOTHER [15:29] DETAIL I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT [15:31] JONATHAN ON STEPHEN MILLER WHERE [15:33] AGAIN, THE CONTRAST BETWEEN THE [15:34] TERMS THAT EARLIER THE [15:36] PENTAGON LEADERS, HOWEVER [15:37] IDEOLOGICALLY ALIGNED THEY MIGHT [15:39] BE WITH ASPECTS OF MAGA, THEY [15:41] WERE STILL UNNERVED BY WHAT YOU [15:43] WRITE WAS THE YOUNG MILLER WITH [15:45] HIS INEXPERIENCE AND [15:46] AGGRESSION. [15:47] READING FROM THE BOOK YOU SAY [15:48] THEY NOW INSTALLED A TRUMP [15:49] DEVOTEE ATOP THE NOW NAMED [15:53] DEPARTMENT OF WAR. [15:54] MILLER HAD LOBBIED FOR A [15:56] LIKE-MINDED DEFENSE SECRETARY [15:57] WHOSE THOUGHTS ABOUT THE [15:58] AMERICAN MILITARY AND CONTEMPT [15:59] FOR BY THE BOOK LAWYERS WERE [16:01] MUCH MORE IN LINE WITH THE [16:02] AGGRESSIVE MINDSET HE SHARED [16:03] WITH TRUMP. [16:04] AND, YOU KNOW, LET'S LEAVE OUT [16:06] TO THE SIDE, JONATHAN, THE [16:08] SEMIOTIC POLITICS OF THE TERM [16:10] DEEP STATE AND JUST REFER TO THE [16:12] FACT THAT THERE IS A LARGE [16:14] SUPERSTRUCTURE OF PEOPLE IN THE [16:15] FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. [16:16] IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE THAT WAY. [16:18] AND YET YOU DOCUMENT THAT AS [16:19] THEY FIGURED THIS OUT, THEY [16:21] WENT DEEPER INTO WHAT THEY [16:22] WOULD CALL THE DEEP STATE TO [16:24] MAKE THOSE CHANGES. [16:25] JONATHAN? [16:27] VERY MUCH SO. [16:29] AND THE PENTAGON WAS AN AREA [16:31] THAT THEY REALLY SAW AS ALMOST [16:33] AN ENEMY FORCE WITHIN THE [16:35] GOVERNMENT THAT IN THE [16:36] UNIFORMED RANKS WERE FULL OF, [16:38] THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT THE [16:40] DEMOCRATS. [16:41] THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT THE [16:42] DEMOCRATS. [16:43] THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT THE [16:45] OPINION, NEVER TRUMPERS, [16:46] ANTITRUMPERS, PEOPLE WHO ARE [16:47] GOING TO OBSTRUCT THE [16:48] PRESIDENT. [16:49] SO IT'S BEEN A VERY SYSTEMATIC [16:50] EFFORT TO CLEAR THEM OUT. [16:52] AND IT'S HAD REAL WORLD [16:53] EFFECTS. [16:54] I'LL GIVE YOU ONE EXAMPLE. [16:56] THE BOAT BOMBING CAMPAIGN. [16:58] IN TERM ONE, TRUMP'S, YOU [17:00] KNOW, TRUMP WAS TALKING ABOUT, [17:01] YOU KNOW, TERM ONE, HE WOULD [17:03] BEEN AROUND THE DEMOCRATS. [17:04] WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE [17:06] DEMOCRATS, THAT THE DEMOCRATS [17:08] KILLS DRUG DEALERS, YOU KNOW, [17:10] UNILATERALLY, THAT DUTERTE [17:11] DIDN'T HAVE A DRUG PROBLEM. [17:12] TRUMP IS NOW DOING A VERSION [17:13] OF THAT ON THE HIGH SEAS. [17:16] AND WHAT HE HAS DONE IS FISHING [17:18] BOATS, CARRYING COCAINE [17:19] TRAFFICKERS. [17:20] DONALD TRUMP HAS DECIDED THAT [17:22] THESE ARE ENEMY COMBATANTS. [17:24] AND INSTEAD OF DOING WHAT HAS [17:26] BEEN DONE, YOU KNOW, [17:27] INTERDICTING THEM, ARRESTING, [17:29] PUTTING ON TRIAL, TREATING AS [17:30] DEMOCRATS. [17:31] WE WERE JUST GOING TO KILL [17:33] THEM. [17:34] AND HE HAS HAD A VERY [17:36] ENTHUSIASTIC SECRETARY OF WAR [17:38] IN PETE HEGSETH IN CARRYING OUT [17:40] THAT CAMPAIGN. [17:41] AND REALLY NO RESISTANCE [17:43] WHATSOEVER FROM THE LEADERSHIP [17:45] OF THE DEPARTMENT. [17:46] STEPHEN MILLER WAS ALSO HEAVILY [17:48] INVOLVED IN THAT CAMPAIGN. [17:49] SO YOU SORT OF SEE ALL THOSE [17:51] THREADS COME TOGETHER JUST IN [17:53] THAT ONE EXAMPLE. [17:54] YEAH, AND THERE'S SO MANY [17:56] OF THESE STORIES THAT TAKE UP [17:58] ATTENTION FOR VARIOUS REASONS. [17:59] I THINK THIS IS THE FIRST DRAFT [18:01] OF HISTORY. [18:02] THE LONG EYES OF HISTORY MIGHT [18:04] FOCUS ON SOME VERY DIFFERENT [18:05] CONTROVERSIES THAN SOMETIMES [18:06] WE DO. [18:07] CERTAINLY WHAT MOST NATIONS [18:09] WOULD CALL THE POSSIBILITY OF [18:13] PREMEDITATED WAR CRIMES. [18:14] I MEAN, YOU HAVE THE [18:15] TECHNOLOGY AND THE ABILITY TO [18:16] LOOK, TO SEE THE PERSONS ALIVE, [18:18] TO SEE THAT THEY SEEM TO POSE [18:20] NO THREAT, AND THEN TO GO FORTH [18:22] AND KILL THEM IN WHAT IS A [18:24] VIOLATION OF POTENTIALLY THE [18:25] GENEVA CONVENTION. [18:26] THAT'S BIG STUFF. [18:27] MAGGIE, I WANT TO GET YOUR [18:29] REPORTING AS WELL ON THE EPSTEIN [18:31] FREAKOUT, BECAUSE YOU HAVE SO [18:32] MANY DETAILS THERE. [18:33] THAT, OF COURSE, MADE NEWS WAS [18:34] IN THE TIMES AS A STANDALONE [18:35] ARTICLE. [18:36] MAGGIE AND JONATHAN ARE BACK [18:37] WITH ME AFTER A QUICK BREAK. [18:38] WE RETURN IN 90 SECONDS. [18:39] JONATHAN SWAN, THE AUTHORS OF [18:41] REGIME CHANGE, WHICH IS ONE OF [18:44] THOSE BOOKS THAT HAD MANY [18:46] DIFFERENT HEADLINES AND EXERPTS [18:48] IN THE NEW YORK TIMES. [18:49] ONE WAS ABOUT WHAT SEEMED LIKE [18:52] FRANKLY A PANIC INSIDE THE [18:54] WHITE HOUSE OVER EPSTEIN AS THEY [18:56] FAILED TO CONTROL THAT STORY. [18:57] THAT WAS A BIG THEME IN THE [18:58] FIRST YEAR. [18:59] READING FROM THE BOOK, TRUMP AND [19:01] J.D. Vance, WHO SPENT A LOT OF [19:03] TIME ON X, YOU KNOW, AND WERE [19:05] TAPPED INTO A YOUNGER AND HYPER [19:06] ONLINE PORTION OF THE BASE [19:07] WERE VERY WORRIED. [19:08] THEY URGED THE WHITE HOUSE TO [19:09] CHANGE COURSE AND FORCED THE [19:11] DOJ TO RELEASE MORE OF THE [19:12] FILES BUT THERE WAS ONE MAJOR [19:14] OBSTACLE IN THE PATH OF THE [19:15] SOLUTION. [19:16] THE PRESIDENT HIMSELF HAD NO [19:17] INTEREST IN TRANSPARENCY. [19:18] HE WANTED THE WHOLE EPSTEIN [19:19] ISSUE BURIED AND SNAPPING AT [19:21] ANYONE WHO MENTIONED IT. [19:23] MAGGIE, WHAT DOES THE INSIDE [19:25] STORY TELL US ABOUT HOW CONCERNED [19:29] TRUMP WAS ABOUT THIS ISSUE? [19:31] THE GUYS CRITICIZED A LOT. [19:32] THE GUYS OBVIOUSLY STARED DOWN [19:34] AND COME BACK FROM ALL KINDS OF [19:35] THINGS. [19:36] AND THIS SEEMED TO BE HUGE AND [19:38] TELL US ABOUT THE SITUATION ROOM. [19:40] SURE. [19:42] SO EPSTEIN WAS ONE OF THESE [19:44] ISSUES, ARRI, THAT TRUMP JUST, [19:46] HE HAD GOTTEN SO USED TO HIS [19:47] BASE LISTENING TO HIM SAY WHAT I [19:49] SAY IS TRUE, WHAT THOSE PEOPLE [19:50] ARE SAYING IS NOT TRUE. [19:51] AND HE JUST COULDN'T MAKE IT [19:52] DISAPPEAR. [19:53] SO HE KEPT CALLING IT A [19:54] DEMOCRATIC HOAX. [19:55] IT WAS ALL CONCOCTED. [19:56] AS WE SAY IN THE BOOK, HE DIDN'T [19:59] WANT TO TALK ABOUT THIS AT ALL. [20:00] HE WANTED IT GONE. [20:01] AND SO THAT LEFT HIS AIDES, AND [20:03] WE'RE NOT, YOU KNOW, I'M NOT [20:04] DEFENDING THIS OR SAYING, YES, [20:05] THIS WAS RIGHT. [20:06] I'M JUST SAYING THIS WAS THEIR [20:07] VIEW. [20:08] THAT LEFT HIS ADVISORS WITH THE [20:10] CHOICE OF HOW DO WE DEAL WITH [20:11] SOMETHING WHERE THE PRESIDENT [20:12] DOESN'T WANT ANYTHING OUT. [20:14] AND THAT LED US TO REPORT ON A [20:17] HANDFUL OF SPECIFIC SITUATION [20:18] ROOM MEETINGS. [20:19] THE WHITE HOUSE SITUATION ROOM, [20:20] WHICH IS THIS, YOU KNOW, ESSENTIALLY [20:22] LIKE A NO CELL PHONE SANCTUARY [20:23] WHERE WARS HAVE BEEN PLANNED AND [20:26] DISCUSSED, WHERE RAIDS OF, YOU [20:28] KNOW, OSAMA BIN LADEN, WHERE HE [20:29] WAS KILLED, WAS MONITORED BY [20:30] PRESIDENT OBAMA. [20:31] IN THIS CASE, IT BECAME AN [20:32] EPSTEIN CRISIS COMMS CENTER, IN [20:33] PART BECAUSE THEY WERE WORRIED [20:34] ABOUT LEAKS. [20:35] BUT YOU HAD THE TOP LEVELS OF THE [20:36] WHITE HOUSE, THE TOP LEVELS OF [20:38] THE DOJ AND THE FBI, THAT [20:40] THEY WERE WORRIED ABOUT LEAKS. [20:42] BUT YOU HAD THE TOP LEVELS OF [20:43] THE DOJ AND THE FBI TALKING ABOUT [20:49] WHAT THEIR OPTIONS ARE. [20:50] THERE WAS THIS REMARKABLE MEETING [20:52] THAT WE WROTE ABOUT IN AUGUST [20:54] WHERE THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT [20:55] RELEASING A PUBLIC-FACING [20:56] WEBSITE PUT TOGETHER BY THE DOJ [20:58] OF ALL THINGS EPSTEIN. [21:00] THE QUESTION WAS, WHAT ABOUT [21:02] DONALD TRUMP AND THINGS RELATED [21:03] TO DONALD TRUMP? [21:04] AND SO ONE AID HAD SEARCHED [21:06] TRUMP'S NAME AND UP POPPED THIS [21:08] UNCORROBORATED SECONDHAND CLAIM [21:09] THAT HAD BEEN PUBLIC FOR A YEAR [21:10] AND A HALF IN AN UNRELATED CASE. [21:12] A CIVIL CASE THAT TRUMP [21:15] ALLEGEDLY ABUSED SOME WOMAN'S [21:17] NIPPLES AND THE ABUSE WAS [21:20] VISIBLE AND THEY WERE VERY [21:21] SWOLLEN AND LOOKED PAINFUL. [21:23] AND THE AID SAID THIS IS OUT [21:25] THERE AND THE VICE PRESIDENT WHO [21:27] WANTED EVERYTHING OUT SAID, [21:28] YOU KNOW, I THINK HE'D BE FINE [21:29] WITH IT. [21:30] HE'D BEEN ACCUSED OF WORSE. [21:31] AND THE WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF [21:32] STAFF SAID, NO, HE WOULD NOT [21:34] BE FINE WITH IT. [21:35] BUT THAT WAS THE END OF THAT [21:36] CONVERSATION ABOUT THIS PUBLIC-FACING [21:37] WEBSITE THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN. [21:39] SO IT WAS REMARKABLE FOR THE [21:41] FACT THAT THEY WERE ATTEMPTING [21:42] VERY HARD TO KEEP THIS VERY [21:45] QUIET AND PRIVATE AND DEAL WITH [21:46] THIS SITUATION THAT ONLY GREW [21:47] BIGGER. [21:48] AND THE FACT THAT BECAUSE OF [21:50] THEIR OWN RESISTANCE OR THAT [21:52] EVERY PATH WAS BLOCKED BY [21:53] TRUMP NOT WANTING ANYTHING [21:54] OUT. [21:55] THIS ISSUE HAS LINGERED AND [21:57] REMAINED A REAL PROBLEM FOR THEM [21:58] POLITICALLY WHICH POLLING SHOWS [22:00] INCLUDING THEIR OWN PRIVATE [22:02] POLLING THAT WE LAY OUT IN THE [22:03] BOOK. [22:04] AND JONATHAN, WHEN YOU LOOK AT [22:06] THAT STORY IN YOUR REPORTING, [22:08] WHO WAS IT AROUND TRUMP AND THE [22:11] WHITE HOUSE THAT FIGURED OUT [22:12] THERE IS A GAP. [22:13] THE GAP BETWEEN WHAT THEY WERE [22:14] WILLING TO GIVE UP AND THE [22:15] ACCOUNTABILITY, THE DEMANDS OF [22:16] THEIR BASE WAS TOO WIDE A GAP [22:18] TO BRIDGE. [22:19] WE ULTIMATELY GOT THE LAW [22:21] BECAUSE THEY MISHANDLED IT SO [22:22] POORLY. [22:23] THAT'S ONE OF THE ONLY ISSUES [22:26] WHERE THE CONGRESS HAS OVERRIDDEN [22:28] TRUMP ON A BIPARTISAN BASIS. [22:29] RIGHT. [22:30] WELL, MANY OF HIS SENIOR [22:32] OFFICIALS, OF TRUMP SENIOR [22:35] OFFICIALS UNDERESTIMATED THE [22:37] POLITICAL POTENCY OF EPSTEIN. [22:39] TO BE FAIR, THEY HAD ENJURED [22:41] ALL KINDS OF SCANDALS IN THEIR [22:43] TIME WORKING FOR DONALD TRUMP [22:45] SO YOU CAN SEE WHY THEY THOUGHT [22:47] THIS WOULD BLOW OVER. [22:48] THE TWO PEOPLE INTERNALLY WHO [22:50] REALLY WERE MOST ADAMANT ABOUT [22:52] GETTING EPSTEIN TRANSPARENCY AND [22:54] PUTTING IT OUT THERE AND TRYING [22:56] TO GET ON TOP OF THIS ISSUE [22:58] WERE THE VICE PRESIDENT WHO THE [23:00] WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF [23:02] DESCRIBED TO OTHERS AS A [23:04] CONSPIRACY THEORIST ON EPSTEIN [23:06] AND DAN BONGINO, THE DEPUTY [23:08] FBI DIRECTOR WHO IN HIS PREVIOUS [23:10] LIFE AS A PODCASTMAN WHO WAS [23:12] TALKED ABOUT EPSTEIN AND THE [23:15] NEED TO GET TO THE BOTTOM OF IT. [23:17] HE WAS VERY AGGRESSIVE [23:19] INTERNALLY AND ACTUALLY WE [23:21] REPORT IN THE BOOK THERE WAS A [23:23] PRETTY ASTONISHING BLOW-UP [23:24] BETWEEN HIM AND THE ATTORNEY [23:25] GENERAL PAM BONDY AND THEN [23:27] AGAIN HIM STORMING OUT OF THE [23:29] WHITE HOUSE SITUATION ROOM [23:30] AFTER A MEETING WITH THE CHIEF [23:31] OF STAFF. [23:32] SO THOSE TWO WERE REALLY THE [23:34] MOST AGGRESSIVE BUT MANY OF [23:36] THEM UNDERESTIMATED IT AND YOU [23:38] KNOW THE THING WE FOUND WHICH [23:40] WAS STUNNING TO TRUMP'S AIDES [23:43] WAS EVEN THIS YEAR IN THEIR [23:46] PRIVATE, YOU KNOW, IN THEIR [23:48] CONFIDENTIAL MEMOS FROM TRUMP'S [23:50] CHIEF POLLSTER, IT'S STILL [23:52] POPPING THROUGH IN THEIR [23:53] FOCUS GROUPS. [23:54] VOTERS ARE JUST BRINGING UP [23:55] THIS ISSUE AND THEY FOUND [23:57] TRUMP'S OWN TEAM FOUND IT RANKS [23:59] ABOVE ISSUES LIKE CRIME AND [24:01] DATA CENTERS AND SOME REALLY [24:03] POLITICALLY SALIENT ISSUES. [24:04] EPSTEIN IS STILL CUTTING [24:06] THROUGH FROM THEIR PERSPECTIVE [24:08] TO AN ALARMING EXTENT. [24:12] NUMBER ONE, TRUE. [24:13] NUMBER TWO, YOU'VE GOT TO BE [24:15] REALLY IN THE WEEDS TO BE [24:16] IMPRESSED BY THAT DATA CENTER [24:19] COMPARISON, JONATHAN. [24:20] BIGGER THAN DATA CENTERS. [24:22] OH, MY GOD. [24:23] DATA CENTERS ARE BIG, MAN. [24:25] THAT'S WHAT WE'RE DOING. [24:26] DATA CENTERS ARE BIG. [24:27] YELL IT. [24:28] DATA CENTERS ARE BIG. [24:29] THEY'RE BIG, MAN. [24:30] THEY'RE BIG. [24:32] DATA CENTERS ARE BIG. [24:33] THAT'S WHAT WE'RE DOING. [24:34] THAT'S WHAT WE'RE DOING. [24:35] THAT'S WHAT WE'RE DOING. [24:36] OVER ON TIME. [24:37] BUT, JONATHAN, ON THE OTHER [24:38] POSITIVE NOTE, THIS APPLIES TO [24:39] BOTH OF YOU, BUT I'LL GIVE THE [24:40] QUESTION TO JONATHAN. [24:41] PEOPLE TALK SO MUCH SMACK [24:43] ABOUT THE MEDIA AND WE CAN ALL [24:45] LEARN AND DO BETTER AND TAKE [24:46] CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM WELL. [24:47] BUT WHAT DOES IT SAY TO YOU [24:49] THAT THIS BOOK AT ONE POINT [24:51] WAS SOLD OUT ON AMAZON? [24:52] I KNOW IT WAS IN BACK ORDER, [24:54] HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF [24:55] COPIES, THAT REAL JOURNALISM [24:56] STILL APPARENTLY MATTERS TO [24:58] PEOPLE AND OBVIOUSLY IT MATTERED [24:59] BECAUSE WE SAW A REACTION FROM [25:00] THE GOVERNMENT. [25:01] IN BRIEF, WHAT DOES THAT SAY TO [25:02] YOU TONIGHT? [25:03] IT'S VERY GRATIFYING FOR [25:06] ANYONE WHO BELIEVES IN THE VALUE [25:08] OF JOURNALISM THAT THERE IS [25:09] STILL A REAL HUNGER. [25:10] I THINK IT'S A HUNGER FOR PEOPLE [25:12] TO UNDERSTAND WHAT'S GOING ON, [25:13] TO PUT MEANING AROUND IT, TO [25:15] REALLY UNDERSTAND HOW THE [25:16] COUNTRY IS BEING RUN. [25:17] AND WE'VE BEEN OVERWHELMED BY [25:19] THE RESPONSE TO THE BOOK. [25:20] YEAH. [25:22] JONATHAN AND MAGGIE, AGAIN, [25:24] THANKS TO OUR GUESTS. [25:29] THANKS TO OUR GUESTS. [25:30] WE AND OTHER OUTLETS DRAW ON THE [25:32] TIMES AND YOUR REPORTING FOR ALL [25:33] KINDS OF STORIES. [25:34] GREAT TO HAVE YOU DIRECTLY HERE. [25:36] I'LL SHOW THE AUDIENCE ONE MORE [25:37] TIME. [25:38] REGIME CHANGE INSIDE THE [25:39] IMPERIAL PRESIDENCY OF DONALD [25:40] TRUMP. [25:41] YOU CAN GET IT WHEREVER BOOKS ARE [25:42] SOLD. [25:43] THANKS TO OUR GUESTS. [25:46] LET ME TELL YOU WHAT'S COMING UP. [25:48] LARRY DAVID UNITING WITH JIMMY [25:51] KIMMEL IN A NOW RECORDED SATIRE