Sparks Fly As Republicans Grill ActBlue CEO Regina Wallace-Jones In House Hearing

[0:00] The Committee on House Administration will come to order. [0:03] The title of today's hearing is Preventing Fraudulent Donations, Transparency, Verification, and Accountability. [0:11] I note that a quorum is present. Without objection, the Chair may declare recess at any time. [0:16] Also without objection, the hearing record will remain open for five legislative days, [0:20] so members may submit any materials they wish to be included therein. [0:24] Further, without objection, Chairman Jordan and Ranking Member Raskin of the Judiciary Committee [0:29] and Chairman Comer and Ranking Member Garcia, the Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, [0:34] will wave on to the Committee on House Administration for this hearing [0:37] for the purpose of providing opening statements and questions of the witness. [0:42] Thank you, Ranking Member Morelli, members of the committee, and our witnesses for participating in today's hearing. [0:48] Let me also thank Chairman Jordan and Chairman Comer for joining us today in their partnership in this investigation. [0:54] We believe in a principle that only Americans should decide American elections. [0:58] Act Blue has violated that principle. [1:03] Ms. Wallace-Jones is here today because there's a significant concern that Act Blue may have allowed foreign donations [1:09] on their platform, lied to Congress, and withheld responsive documents from a congressional subpoena. [1:17] All three of those actions are illegal. [1:19] In 2023, I opened an investigation into Act Blue, following reports that foreign actors were exploiting the platform [1:27] to funnel money to American political campaigns. [1:32] As part of that investigation, I sent this letter to Act Blue, [1:37] asking basic questions about its fraud prevention practices. [1:41] In response, Act Blue's CEO, Regina Wallace-Jones, wrote to me in this letter, [1:47] claiming that Act Blue had a robust approach to rooting out potential foreign contributions. [1:54] However, according to the New York Times, Act Blue's outside legal counsel reviewed Ms. Wallace-Jones' response [2:02] and found that it posed a substantial risk for Act Blue. [2:09] Specifically, the concern was that Ms. Wallace-Jones' letters may have been false or misleading. [2:14] In her letter, Ms. Wallace-Jones identified three steps Act Blue takes to prevent foreign donations. [2:22] One, donors using a foreign address must provide U.S. passport information. [2:27] Two, if a contribution appears to be from a foreign address, Act Blue contacts a donor to request U.S. passport information. [2:36] And three, the contribution is refunded if Act Blue is unable to contact the donor. [2:42] The New York Times reported that Act Blue's outside counsel determined those three steps are not always followed. [2:50] In fact, outside counsel warned that passport information was never requested for transactions made through third-party apps like PayPal and Venmo. [3:01] Outside counsel also warned Act Blue that some of the funds received were impermissible contributions from foreign nationals. [3:08] This committee issued subpoenas for documents related to fraudulent and foreign donations and alleged misconduct by Act Blue staff. [3:16] The documents provided by Act Blue revealed alarming directives from its leadership to lower fraud standards. [3:24] In Act Blue, meeting notes turned over to this committee. [3:27] Staff were instructed, quote, [3:28] According to those same notes, Act Blue staff was told that this guidance was a bit antithetical to prior feedback about contributions deemed highly suspicious. [3:52] Further, an Act Blue memo titled Fraud Prevention 101 for new associates in the workflow advises that, quote, [4:01] If an otherwise legitimate donor uses a fake name, we would want to accept their donation, end quote. [4:09] We have additional evidence of Act Blue detecting at least 22 significant fraud campaigns. [4:15] Nine of those fraud campaigns had a foreign nexus. [4:18] After receiving this information, we deposed and interviewed five former Act Blue employees. [4:26] When deposed, Act Blue employees refused to answer a single question. [4:32] Instead, they invoked the Fifth Amendment 146 times. [4:37] We gave Act Blue employees an opportunity to answer our questions, but they refused. [4:41] But now, Ms. Wallace-Jones, you have a real opportunity to explain how this occurred. [4:46] Ms. Wallace-Jones agreed, originally agreed to appear voluntarily before us this morning. [4:51] But late Monday afternoon, her lawyers requested a subpoena in order for her to appear. [4:56] A subpoena was provided. [4:58] Ms. Wallace-Jones is now before us. [5:00] I look forward to your answers to our questions. [5:03] Congress and the American people deserve the truth. [5:06] With that, I'll now yield to the ranking member, Mr. Morelli, for the purpose of his opening statement. [5:11] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [5:21] The integrity of our democracy depends on the integrity of a campaign finance system. [5:27] Corruption in campaigns yields corruption in government. [5:31] When corporations and billionaires can buy politicians, Americans everywhere recognize that our campaign finance system is corrupt. [5:39] The proof is right in front of us. [5:41] The President's campaign accepted piles and piles of dark money from corporations and billionaires while Republicans cheered him on. [5:49] In fact, the nonpartisan professional staff at the Federal Elections Commission found potential campaign finance violations in 32 instances involving President Trump. [6:00] Yet in all 32, Republican FEC commissioners blocked any investigation into potential violations of law. [6:08] Knowing that Republicans will shield them from accountability, the administration is awash with insider trading and self-enrichment. [6:14] Look no further than the $1.8 billion slush fund, a fund to reward criminals who assaulted Capitol Police officers on January 6th. [6:24] The President is trying to force on the American people. [6:27] Look no further than the Republican majority, which slashed health care for millions of Americans while cutting taxes for their billionaire donors. [6:36] The American people understand that congressional Republicans and this administration willingly tolerate corruption when it benefits them. [6:43] So it's outrageous but hardly surprising that this Republican majority has flat out refused to investigate critical, credible reports of fraud, abuse, and corruption on the Republican fundraising platform, WinRed. [6:57] Refused to investigate WinRed for facilitating documented, illegal foreign contributions that flowed through WinRed to President Trump's campaign. [7:06] Why haven't Republicans attempted to investigate the Chinese national who reportedly contributed thousands to President Trump via WinRed? [7:14] According to public reporting, a Chinese businessman illegally contributed $5,000 to the Trump campaign in 2024. [7:22] What do House Republicans have to say about this corruption? [7:25] Not a word. [7:26] Deafening silence. [7:28] And it doesn't end there. [7:29] Public reporting shows that WinRed, quote, [7:32] victimized hundreds of elderly Americans and misled those battling dementia. [7:36] And an examination of Trump campaign accounts shows that numerous donors listed their address as 999 anonymous drive when contributing to the President. [7:46] That is clear evidence of fraud. [7:48] Those donors could be foreign nationals. [7:51] These donors possibly committed crimes. [7:54] But House Republicans have done nothing to investigate that. [7:57] The cost of corruption is real. [8:00] It hurts Americans in so many ways, including their bank accounts. [8:03] But President Trump simply does not care about regular Americans. [8:06] Don't believe me? [8:08] Take him at his word. [8:09] The President conceded just last month. [8:12] He doesn't think about the financial pain of American citizens. [8:15] Yet House Republicans will do anything to protect him, even as gas and grocery prices skyrocket, [8:21] as our economy crumbles and Americans lose faith in their ability to achieve the American dream. [8:26] Republicans won't investigate the clear pattern of fraud and criminality on WinRed, [8:30] precisely because the fraud benefits Donald Trump, [8:33] because the money goes to the Trump campaign and to other Republican campaigns. [8:38] Republicans' investigation today is not about safeguarding American elections. [8:42] It's not about protecting American voters. [8:44] It's about punishing enemies of the President and shielding his allies. [8:49] And this all fits a pattern. [8:52] Just look at this corrupt DOJ's vindictive, politically motivated prosecutions, [8:57] which have been repeatedly thrown out of court. [8:59] Just look at the President's attempted slush fund for insurrectionists and criminals. [9:04] For people who violently attacked police, the corruption is visible to everyone, [9:09] but Republicans refuse to do anything to end it. [9:11] So, owing to the majority's dereliction of duty, House Democrats have stepped into the gap. [9:17] We sent a letter asking the Treasury Department for information related to financial irregularities on WinRed. [9:24] We sent a letter to the Federal Trade Commission, seeking information on allegations of fraud and abuse on WinRed. [9:30] The Trump administration stonewalled both requests. [9:34] We sent letters to the Republican Attorneys General of Virginia and Texas, [9:37] seeking information on potential crimes committed by WinRed. [9:41] Neither responded. [9:41] So, this morning, we sent a letter to WinRed asking for information related to foreign contributions and fraud on their platform. [9:49] Critically, our letter made it clear that WinRed must retain all information relevant to future investigations into fraud, abuse, or criminality on behalf of WinRed. [9:59] But when there is clear evidence of fraud, deceptive fundraising methods, or potential foreign contributions in American elections, Congress has a duty to investigate. [10:08] House Republicans have not taken that duty seriously. [10:10] But next year, rest assured, committee Democrats will. [10:14] The American people deserve confidence that our elections belong to Americans, not to foreign actors, not to fraudsters, and not to special interests. [10:22] That's the standard Congress should demand. [10:24] It's the standard House Democrats will uphold next year. [10:27] Before I yield back, I'd ask for unanimous consent to enter two things into the record. [10:32] The June 1st letter ranking members Raskin, Garcia, and I sent to Attorney General Paxson regarding WinRed, [10:37] and today's letter to WinRed seeking documents and a transcribed interview. [10:43] And with that, Mr. Chair, I yield back. [10:44] Without objection, so ordered. [10:46] I now yield five minutes to the Chairman of the Judiciary Committee, Mr. Jordan, for an opening statement. [10:51] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [10:51] Everything is fine. [10:53] Everything is fine. [10:54] We're not taking foreign contributions. [10:56] That's what Ms. Wallace-Jones said in November 2023, responding to a letter from the Chairman. [11:03] She said, passport information is required from donors providing an address outside the United States. [11:07] Quote, we have multi-layered screenings placed to root out foreign contributions. [11:11] She put it in a letter, put it in writing in a letter to Congress. [11:16] Now, the only problem is, ActBlue's outside counsel, as the Chairman said, sent a memo to Ms. Wallace-Jones where they said things were a little different than what she described to Congress. [11:26] They said, ActBlue's response to Congress was not entirely accurate. [11:30] They said, quote, ActBlue did not have the rigor in its review of overseas donations that was required or that it described to Congress. [11:37] Quote, there's a substantial risk some of the funds were impermissible contributions from foreign nationals. [11:44] And ActBlue's staff was aware that its system was not as robust as necessary, making these contributions appear, listen here, knowing and willful. [11:54] There's intent right there. [11:57] Knowing and willful and an effort to conceal. [12:00] Wow. [12:01] Knowing and willful, not entirely accurate response to Congress in an effort to conceal. [12:06] You know what they call that? [12:08] They call that lying. [12:10] So the question is, who are you going to believe? [12:12] The law firm or ActBlue? [12:14] Now, a few things to consider when you're asking, when you're evaluating that question that we've uncovered, the committees have uncovered. [12:20] First, there's just the general suspicious activity for an IP addresses with 237 contributions in one day. [12:28] 1,700 transactions in seven days where the donor's country did not match the country of the donor's IP address. [12:36] That seems fishy. [12:36] Second, the documents the committee obtained did not square with Ms. Wallace-Jones' response to Congress. [12:44] We had one ActBlue employee who, in an email, said, changes we have made over the last year have already meant we're accepting more fraud. [12:54] So there was already some fraud. [12:56] They changed their standards so they were accepting more fraud. [12:59] ActBlue board member Kimberly Peeler Allen admitted up to, quote, 38 million in ActBlue contributions in 2024 had signs of a foreign origin. [13:07] Third, as the chairman said, there were five people on the fraud prevention team at ActBlue who were concerned about foreign contributions. [13:17] And all five have either resigned, been fired, or been placed on leave. [13:25] All five. [13:27] The manager of the day-to-day fraud prevention, resigned. [13:30] Vice president of customer service in charge of fraud prevention for 2024, resigned. [13:35] Top lawyers at ActBlue, general counsel Darren Hurwitz, fired, given a $170,000 severance package, as long as he didn't say anything without first checking with ActBlue. [13:46] Aaron Ting, associate general counsel, resigns. [13:49] ActBlue refuses to give us, even though we've asked for it, his resignation letter. [13:53] And legal counsel Zain Ahmad resigns after being retaliated against for blowing the whistle to the board about what was going on. [14:03] And as the chairman mentioned, we deposed all five of them. [14:06] And every single one of them, 146 times, took the fifth. [14:10] This is a tale as old as time. [14:14] You get caught doing something wrong, and when you're questioned about it, you deny it. [14:19] And when evidence emerges and questions persist, you take the fifth. [14:26] Take the fifth. [14:27] Now, why would all that happen? [14:29] Why would all that happen? [14:31] Well, I think there's probably 3.8 billion reasons why all that happened. [14:35] 3.8 billion dollars ActBlue took in in the 2024 election cycle. [14:42] That's a lot of money. [14:44] That's a lot of money. [14:46] And we know that there's something going on here, and that's why the investigation persists. [14:49] And our investigation is different than what the Justice Department is doing, but we appreciate what they're doing, too. [14:53] And mostly, I want to thank this committee. [14:55] I want to thank Chairman Steyl and this committee for the work they've done. [14:58] But for that letter sent, we might not have figured this out. [15:02] So I appreciate the chairman and the good work he's doing, and I yield back. [15:05] The gentleman yields back. [15:06] The ranking member of the Judiciary Committee, Mr. Raskins, recognized for five minutes for an opening statement. [15:11] Thank you kindly, Mr. Chairman. [15:13] Ranking Member Morelli, for the invitation. [15:16] It's great to be back here in the intimate quarters of the House Administration Committee. [15:22] The hearing is called Preventing Fraudulent Donations. [15:28] Transparency, Verification, and Accountability. [15:31] That sounds like a valuable inquiry to me. [15:33] The problem is that, as we all know, that's not what the hearing is really about. [15:37] If it were, our colleagues would have first demented testimony from the CEO of WinRed, [15:42] the fundraising platform that has generated hundreds and hundreds of serious fraud complaints [15:49] from individual Americans, mostly Republicans, including a lot of elderly Americans and Americans [15:55] with disabilities, who say they've been robbed blind, hoodwinked by WinRed, in many cases fleeced [16:03] out of their life savings. [16:04] But the Republican chairs of our three committees have repeatedly refused to conduct any oversight [16:10] or investigation into the WinRed platform that processes donations for over 7,800 GOP campaigns [16:17] and committees across the United States, including all the GOP senators and 97 percent of GOP House members. [16:24] Well, that's just not a serious approach to the problem. [16:27] This hearing is really part of a political vengeance and vendetta campaign that yesterday came to the House Judiciary Committee [16:35] in the form of a four-hour hearing interrogating the president of the Southern Poverty Law Center. [16:41] After the 2020 election, banks and credit card issuers estimated that WinRed fraud cases constituted as much as 3 percent [16:50] of their total national fraud workload across all transactions. [16:55] That is a shockingly large share, given that there are 150 million credit card transactions [17:02] that American consumers and businesses engage in every single day in the country. [17:06] Between January 2022 and June 2024, the FTC received more than 800 complaints about WinRed, [17:14] nearly seven times the number it got about ActBlue. [17:18] In the final months of 2020 alone, the Trump campaign, RNC, and their shared accounts [17:23] had to issue more than 530,000 refunds worth more than $64 million. [17:30] That's more than 11 times the amount that the Biden campaign [17:34] and the Democratic committees had to refund. [17:37] And yet, who of the administration and our GOP colleagues focused on exclusively from the beginning, [17:44] ActBlue, the company that primarily processes contributions for Democratic campaigns around the country. [17:50] Last April, the White House issued a presidential memorandum directing the AG and Treasury to, quote, [17:56] use all lawful authority to investigate ActBlue, which, according to the White House, [18:01] facilitated straw or dummy contributions or foreign contributions to political candidates and committees. [18:07] But as Americans can see each day, every accusation by this administration is an admission, [18:14] every allegation a confession, every charge a self-indictment. [18:19] The arraignment of ActBlue is an admission about WinRed's continuing serious fraud against their donors. [18:27] An Associated Press review of President Trump's political committees found more than 1,600 contributions [18:34] from unverified donors who lived abroad, had close ties to foreign interests, [18:40] or failed to disclose basic identifying information. [18:43] Many of those contributions came through WinRed. [18:46] AP reported that one Chinese businessman gave $5,000 to Trump through WinRed while listing a La Quinta Inn [18:53] as his home address. [18:55] Other contributions came from unnamed donors listing 999 Anonymous Drive as their address. [19:03] Another series of WinRed contributions listed the donor's address as a vacant building in Washington [19:08] that turned out to be a defunct funeral home. [19:11] Where is all of the righteous outrage about these abuses? [19:17] Where is the mobilization of taxpayer resources to investigate WinRed? [19:23] Where is Attorney General Ken Paxton, who was impeached by the Texas House of Representatives [19:28] for bribery, securities fraud, abuse of office, and obstruction of justice? [19:34] Attorney General Paxton sued ActBlue in April, [19:37] but his office has ignored complaint after complaint from Texas constituents [19:42] about the allegations of fraud and abuse related to WinRed. [19:47] Who were the victims of WinRed that Ken Paxton deliberately ignores? [19:52] Well, one Texas woman tried to make small, one-time contributions to Republican candidates [19:59] that she supported. [20:00] WinRed emptied more than $15,000 out of her bank account, [20:06] including charging her account 29 times in one day. [20:11] She wrote to Attorney General Paxton that she, quote, [20:13] didn't realize they were sucking my life savings out of my bank account. [20:19] He never even wrote her back. [20:21] And if that's how partisan Republicans treat Republicans, [20:24] you can imagine how they're going to treat everybody else in the country. [20:29] You don't want me to discuss these other complainants? [20:32] The gentleman's time has expired. [20:35] The ranking member of the Oversight and Government Reform Committee, [20:39] Mr. Garcia, is recognized for five minutes for an opening statement. [20:43] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Appreciate being here. [20:45] And I want to just begin by echoing, of course, [20:46] ranking member Morelli and ranking member Raskin. [20:50] Look, the biggest fraud in this country [20:52] that we should be talking about is happening at the White House. [20:56] We're not talking about the $1.8 billion slush fund. [20:58] We're not talking about the clear selling or influence of pardons [21:03] and what's happening at the White House. [21:04] We're not talking about the $2 billion that Jared Kushner got [21:07] two months after leaving the White House for an investment fund [21:10] that's made no return. [21:12] We're not talking about the possible Trump family pay-to-play schemes [21:16] and scandals that are happening across the world [21:18] as President Trump tries to do diplomacy [21:21] and the Trump family follows up with real estate deals. [21:25] We're here because Republicans want to talk about Act Blue, [21:28] not because they're serious about strengthening campaign finance laws [21:32] or actually strengthening the abuse of fraud in this country. [21:38] Now, we should all support and work to strengthen security, [21:42] prevent fraud, stop interference in foreign elections, [21:45] and certainly if there are ways to improve platforms [21:49] across this country, public or private, that should be the focus. [21:54] But if Republicans were serious about that goal, [21:56] they wouldn't be exclusively focused on Act Blue. [22:00] They'd also be examining the WinRed platform [22:02] with the exact same level of scrutiny. [22:06] Now, a real investigation into WinRed would raise serious questions. [22:10] The Trump campaign, as has been mentioned through WinRed, [22:13] has accepted thousands of contributions [22:15] that reportedly lacked basic identifying information [22:19] required under campaign finance law. [22:21] Now, according to reporting, [22:24] President Trump received more than 1,000 contributions [22:27] that omitted key identifying information, [22:29] such as city, state, address, county. [22:32] And he also received contributions from donors [22:34] whose names were incomplete, [22:36] listed as anonymous or marked name not provided. [22:40] So there are concerns. [22:42] And sure, there are concerns about foreign source donations [22:44] as well as it relates to WinRed. [22:46] Now, one example involved a Chinese businessman [22:48] whose contribution to the Trump campaign [22:51] listed an address in La Quinta, California. [22:54] Now, public records identified him [22:56] as actually living in China [22:57] and described him as a Chinese national. [23:00] Now, if Republicans are concerned [23:02] about foreign money and politics, [23:04] they should be investigating those allegations [23:06] with the same enthusiasm [23:08] that they're bringing to Act Blue. [23:11] But perhaps the most troubling allegations [23:12] involving WinRed [23:14] actually don't even concern foreign money. [23:16] They concern WinRed victimizing [23:18] American donors themselves. [23:20] In fact, Republican donors, [23:21] as was raised by ranking member Raskin. [23:24] Now, CNN reported that there was one 82-year-old woman [23:27] living in a modest Baltimore apartment [23:30] who unknowingly gave more than $350,000 [23:34] to Republican causes through recurring donations. [23:38] Another donor, an 80-year-old Californian, [23:40] who later died of lung cancer, [23:43] contributed more than $180,000 [23:45] and just had $250 left in her bank account [23:49] when she passed away. [23:52] Now, these stories raise real concerns [23:54] about WinRed's use of pre-checked recurring donation boxes [23:58] and confusing solicitations [24:00] that many consumers, seniors, and others [24:04] have had a hard time understanding. [24:07] Now, according to CNN, [24:08] WinRed has been the subject of hundreds of complaints [24:11] to the Federal Trade Commission. [24:13] Far more, by the way, [24:15] than comparable complaints involving [24:17] any Democratic fundraising platforms. [24:19] Yet it's interesting [24:20] that we're only focused on ActBlue. [24:24] Now, WinRed also faced scrutiny [24:26] over aggressive text messaging practices, [24:28] and multiple state attorneys general [24:30] have investigated its recurring donation policies. [24:32] Yet today's hearing ignores, of course, all of that. [24:36] Because this is not a serious effort [24:39] to improve campaign finance compliance. [24:42] It is a partisan exercise [24:43] designed to protect Donald Trump, [24:47] to protect WinRed, [24:49] and attack Democrats and political opponents. [24:53] If the committee wants a real investigation [24:55] into campaign fundraising practices, [24:57] let's examine everyone, [24:59] and let's follow the facts where they lead, [25:01] not pretend to have some kind of investigation [25:04] that only really is going after one side. [25:06] With that, I yield back. [25:08] Thank you. [25:08] The gentleman yields back. [25:10] Without objection, [25:10] all other members' opening statements [25:12] will be made part of the hearing record [25:13] if they're submitted to the committee clerk [25:15] by 5 p.m. today. [25:17] As our witness today, [25:18] we have Ms. Regina Wallace-Jones, [25:20] the CEO of ActBlue. [25:22] Ms. Wallace-Jones, [25:23] will you please stand and raise your right hand? [25:29] Do you solemnly swear or affirm [25:31] that the testimony that you're about to give [25:32] is the truth, the whole truth, [25:35] and nothing but the truth, [25:36] so help you God? [25:38] Let the record show [25:39] that the witness answered in the affirmative. [25:41] You may be seated. [25:44] I'll begin our questions today, [25:46] followed by the ranking member. [25:49] Foreign funds have no place [25:50] in American political campaigns. [25:53] American elections [25:54] are for American citizens only. [25:57] Ms. Wallace-Jones, [25:58] in 2023, [26:00] I sent you this letter [26:01] with five straightforward questions [26:04] with a goal of confirming [26:05] that foreign funds are not in our elections [26:08] and that ActBlue [26:09] had adequate fraud prevention measures in place. [26:12] You replied a month later [26:14] with a four-page letter [26:16] describing your fraud prevention policies [26:18] and procedures [26:19] that you had in place at ActBlue. [26:22] But according to the New York Times, [26:24] your response to this committee [26:25] may have been false and misleading. [26:29] Ms. Wallace-Jones, [26:30] when you signed this letter to me, [26:33] did you believe [26:34] that this letter [26:35] was false and misleading? [26:40] On the advice of my counsel, [26:42] I respectfully decline [26:44] to answer this question [26:45] pursuant to my Fifth Amendment [26:47] rights under the Constitution. [26:51] Ms. Wallace-Jones, [26:51] before you sent this letter, [26:53] did you believe, [26:55] was it brought to your attention [26:57] that this letter that you sent me [26:59] was false and misleading? [27:00] On the advice of counsel, [27:04] I respectfully decline [27:05] to answer the question [27:07] pursuant to my Fifth Amendment rights [27:09] under the Constitution. [27:11] Well, I think it's important [27:12] for everybody here to know [27:13] that according to the New York Times, [27:14] you've been aware for quite a while [27:16] that the response you made [27:17] was likely false or misleading. [27:20] Did you ever consider [27:21] correcting the record [27:23] for this committee [27:23] when it was brought to your attention [27:24] that your letter to me [27:26] was false and misleading? [27:28] On the advice of counsel, [27:30] I respectfully decline [27:31] to answer the question [27:32] pursuant to the attorney-client privilege [27:35] and my Fifth Amendment rights [27:37] under the Constitution. [27:38] That's pretty interesting. [27:39] So now you're following [27:40] the advice of your legal counsel, [27:41] but you didn't [27:42] when they warned you [27:43] that your letter to me [27:44] was false and misleading. [27:46] Your letter claimed [27:48] that passport information [27:49] is required from donors [27:50] providing an address [27:51] outside the United States. [27:55] In November 2023, [27:57] when you wrote that letter, [27:58] did every ActBlue donation [28:00] that provided an address [28:02] outside the United States [28:03] require passport information? [28:06] On the advice of counsel, [28:08] I respectfully decline [28:09] to answer the question [28:10] pursuant to my Fifth Amendment rights [28:12] under the Constitution. [28:13] Okay. [28:14] Your letter also claimed [28:15] that ActBlue would contact [28:17] a donor to request passport information [28:19] if the contribution [28:20] appeared to be [28:21] from a foreign address. [28:22] And you told this committee [28:24] that the contribution [28:25] would be refunded [28:26] if ActBlue was unable [28:28] to make contact with the donor. [28:30] Is that correct? [28:33] On the advice of counsel, [28:34] I respectfully decline [28:36] to answer the question [28:37] pursuant to my Fifth Amendment rights [28:39] under the Constitution. [28:40] Well, we have reason [28:42] to believe that your letter [28:43] in 2023 was not correct [28:46] because according [28:47] to the New York Times, [28:48] donations that were made [28:49] through third-party apps [28:50] like PayPal or Venmo, [28:53] that passport information [28:54] was not always required. [28:57] So what's true? [28:58] The 2023 letter you sent me [29:00] or the New York Times article? [29:02] On the advice of counsel, [29:07] I respectfully decline [29:09] to answer the question [29:10] pursuant to my Fifth Amendment rights [29:12] under the Constitution. [29:15] After you sent me the 2023 letter, [29:19] ActBlue weakened [29:20] its fraud prevention rules twice [29:23] in 2024. [29:26] Quote, [29:26] even after internal assessments [29:28] confirmed that these policy changes [29:30] would lead to more fraudulent donations. [29:34] End quote. [29:34] Did you weaken fraud prevention standards [29:37] to increase donations [29:39] on the ActBlue platform? [29:42] On the advice of counsel, [29:43] I respectfully decline [29:45] to answer the question [29:47] pursuant to my Fifth Amendment rights [29:49] under the Constitution. [29:52] Ms. Wallace-Jones, [29:53] I want to make clear [29:53] for the hearing record, [29:55] you've been asked legitimate questions [29:57] that are intended [29:58] to elicit information [29:59] the committee has the right to have [30:01] to aid our inquiry. [30:03] You've refused to answer the questions. [30:06] Are you formally asserting [30:07] your Fifth Amendment privilege [30:09] against self-incrimination today? [30:12] On the advice of counsel, [30:14] I respectfully decline [30:16] to answer the question [30:17] pursuant to my Fifth Amendment rights [30:19] under the Constitution. [30:21] For the record, [30:25] I think it's important to know [30:26] that we invited you [30:28] to come here today to testify. [30:31] Originally, [30:32] you were coming voluntarily. [30:34] On Monday, [30:35] your attorneys reached out [30:36] to this committee [30:36] and requested a subpoena [30:37] for you to testify. [30:39] We provided you that subpoena. [30:41] You're here today, [30:42] you have an opportunity to testify, [30:43] and you've chosen [30:45] to take your Fifth Amendment [30:46] constitutional right. [30:48] I'll now recognize [30:49] the ranking member, [30:50] Mr. Morelli, [30:51] for five minutes [30:52] for the purpose [30:52] of asking his questions. [30:57] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [30:59] When it comes to upholding [31:01] the integrity [31:01] of American elections, [31:03] when it comes to protecting [31:04] and defending the rule of law, [31:06] sadly, Republicans are absent [31:07] without leave. [31:09] Distracted by their [31:10] pretextual partisan investigation [31:11] into Democratic fundraising, [31:13] Republicans ignored [31:14] the fire raging [31:15] in their own house. [31:16] So, if Republicans [31:17] on this committee, [31:18] afraid of crossing Donald Trump, [31:20] refuse to investigate [31:21] this corruption, [31:22] Democrats will. [31:23] Let's begin [31:24] with the Chinese businessman [31:25] who used WinRed [31:26] to illegally funnel money [31:28] to President Trump. [31:29] Public reporting indicated [31:30] that Jiajun Zhang, [31:33] a jet-setting Chinese businessman, [31:35] used WinRed [31:36] to illegally send $5,000 [31:38] to President Trump's campaign, [31:40] listing a California hotel [31:42] as his address. [31:45] How did WinRed's [31:45] internal legal compliance system [31:47] allow this? [31:49] Why wasn't this contribution [31:50] and potentially scores [31:51] of others like it blocked? [31:53] Committee Republicans [31:54] don't seem to care [31:55] about the answers [31:55] to these questions. [31:57] So, Democrats have stepped up. [31:58] We began our own investigation. [31:59] What did we find? [32:01] Democrats found that [32:02] while Mr. Zhang [32:03] was corruptly funneling money [32:04] through WinRed, [32:06] he was allegedly involved [32:07] in a poker tournament [32:08] at a casino [32:09] that once owed [32:10] a $3.1 million settlement [32:13] to the California Justice Department [32:15] for violating the Bank Secrecy Act, [32:17] a casino that also paid, [32:19] incidentally, [32:19] a $2.8 million penalty [32:21] to the Treasury Department's [32:22] Financial Crimes Enforcement Network, [32:25] a casino that, [32:26] on a separate occasion, [32:27] admitted that it failed [32:28] to properly follow [32:30] federal anti-money laundering laws. [32:34] What was this Chinese national, [32:35] who we know [32:36] was channeling illegal money [32:38] to President Trump, [32:39] really doing it at the casino? [32:40] Who was he meeting with? [32:41] Why do House Republicans [32:43] refuse to investigate [32:44] this egregious violation [32:45] of federal law? [32:46] Is it because the corrupt, [32:47] illegal money flowed [32:49] through WinRed to President Trump? [32:51] Let's take another example. [32:53] A no-doubt imaginary person [32:56] identified only as Alex A [32:58] gave nearly $5,000 [33:00] to President Trump's campaign [33:01] in 2024 through WinRed. [33:04] This Alex person [33:06] listed an address, [33:08] 420 H Street, Northeast, [33:10] just a few blocks [33:11] from where we're sitting right now. [33:12] This was not a one-off mistake [33:14] or a clerical loan. [33:16] This was someone using [33:17] a false name [33:18] to explicitly break the law [33:19] to the tune of over 40 [33:21] problematic donations [33:23] through WinRed [33:24] over the course [33:24] of more than a year. [33:25] This is not one of those [33:26] hard-to-find cases [33:27] where someone tries [33:29] to cover their tracks. [33:30] This is clear as day. [33:32] Anyone can tell you [33:33] that Alex A is a pseudonym, [33:35] that Alex A does not, [33:37] in fact, reside [33:37] at 420 H Street, Northeast, [33:40] because 420 H Street, Northeast, [33:42] is a defunct funeral home [33:44] in a vacant building [33:45] near Union Station, [33:47] a building that has been vacant [33:48] for over seven years. [33:51] How did WinRed not catch any of this? [33:53] Why aren't we investigating [33:54] this clear pattern of fraud, [33:57] of illegality, of corruption? [33:59] What are House Republicans [34:00] covering up? [34:01] It's as clear as day [34:02] why we're actually here today. [34:04] Anyone watching today knows [34:05] a hearing on, quote, [34:07] preventing fraudulent donations [34:08] without looking into WinRed [34:10] is not a serious proceeding. [34:12] If we as a committee [34:13] are truly interested [34:14] in combating fraudulent [34:16] political donations, [34:17] we would be undertaking [34:18] a good-faith effort [34:19] to understand the problem [34:20] and to discuss solutions. [34:22] But Republicans are not [34:23] interested in solutions. [34:24] They're interested [34:25] in a partisan witch hunt. [34:27] Last week, Democrats [34:28] on House Judiciary, [34:29] on Judiciary, [34:30] and on Oversight in Government [34:31] Reform sent a letter [34:32] to Texas Attorney General [34:33] Ken Paxton [34:34] seeking information related [34:36] to his investigations, [34:37] if any, on WinRed. [34:39] We set a deadline for a response. [34:41] It was this past Monday, June 8. [34:43] Attorney General Paxton ignored us. [34:45] So now, Mr. Chairman, [34:47] it's time this committee [34:48] to start taking our duty [34:50] to protect American voters, [34:51] protect American elections seriously. [34:54] Americans deserve to know [34:55] what WinRed is hiding, [34:57] what Republicans are hiding. [34:58] It's time for us to draw [34:59] a line in the sand [35:00] to make clear that, [35:02] regardless of partisanship, [35:04] no one is above the law. [35:05] And with that, Mr. Chairman, [35:06] pursuant to Clause 2-K-6 [35:08] of Rule 11, [35:09] I move that the committee subpoena [35:10] Warren Kenneth Paxson, Jr., [35:12] the Attorney General of Texas. [35:15] I recognize the motion [35:17] and hold it in abeyance [35:18] until the end of the hearing. [35:21] Thank you, Mr. Chair. [35:22] I yield back my time. [35:23] The gentleman yields back. [35:24] In deference to the chair [35:25] and the ranking member [35:27] of the other full committee, [35:28] I now recognize [35:28] the chairman [35:29] of the Judiciary Committee, [35:30] Mr. Jordan, [35:30] for five minutes. [35:31] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [35:32] Mr. Garcia, [35:32] in his opening statement, [35:33] said we're here [35:34] because Republicans [35:34] are playing politics. [35:36] Let's be clear. [35:37] We're here because [35:38] ActBlue's legal counsel [35:40] said Ms. Wallace-Jones [35:41] lied to Congress, [35:43] willfully and knowingly [35:44] misled the Congress [35:46] of the United States. [35:47] That's why we're here. [35:48] Oh, by the way, [35:48] who was the legal counsel, [35:50] Covington-Burley? [35:51] Who was her counsel? [35:52] Dana Remus, [35:53] not some Republican. [35:54] She was former [35:55] White House counsel [35:56] for Joe Biden. [35:57] That's who said that. [35:59] That's why we're here. [36:00] So I just have [36:00] a couple questions for you, [36:02] Ms. Wallace-Jones. [36:03] Just a couple. [36:03] Your board chairman said [36:05] ActBlue accepted [36:07] up to 38 million contributions [36:08] in 2024 [36:09] that had the signs [36:10] of foreign origin. [36:11] How much fraud [36:11] is too much fraud? [36:14] On the advice of counsel, [36:16] I respectfully decline [36:18] to answer the question [36:19] pursuant to my Fifth Amendment [36:21] rights under the Constitution. [36:26] How many foreign contributions [36:27] did ActBlue accept? [36:29] On the advice of counsel, [36:32] I respectfully decline [36:33] to answer the question [36:34] pursuant to my Fifth Amendment [36:36] rights under the Constitution. [36:38] How much money did ActBlue [36:41] accept from Russia? [36:43] On the advice of counsel, [36:46] I respectfully decline [36:47] to answer the question [36:49] pursuant to my Fifth Amendment [36:51] rights under the Constitution. [36:54] Why did your entire legal team quit? [36:57] Your in-house legal team. [37:00] On the advice of counsel, [37:02] I respectfully decline [37:03] to answer the question [37:05] pursuant to my Fifth Amendment [37:07] rights under the Constitution. [37:10] Did your legal team quit [37:11] because of reduced fraud standards? [37:14] On the advice of counsel, [37:16] I respectfully decline [37:18] to answer the question [37:19] pursuant to my Fifth Amendment [37:21] rights under the Constitution. [37:24] I understand. [37:24] We won't keep you here all day, [37:26] but let me just do one more. [37:27] Did you weaken your fraud standards [37:28] to help Democrats? [37:31] On the advice of counsel, [37:32] I respectfully decline [37:34] to answer the question [37:36] pursuant to my Fifth Amendment [37:38] rights under the Constitution. [37:40] Mr. Chairman, [37:41] again, I appreciate the good work [37:42] you and your committee are doing. [37:44] With that, I would yield [37:44] the balance of my time [37:45] to the gentleman [37:46] from North Carolina. [37:52] Thank you for appearing today. [37:55] I'm sorry that this has turned [37:57] into a partisan exercise. [37:58] The American people deserve truth, [38:01] truth in everything. [38:02] I'm not going to disagree [38:03] with some of my Democratic colleagues [38:04] that say they want truth [38:06] from other fundraising platforms. [38:09] I want this, too. [38:11] But the fact is, [38:12] these were egregious practices [38:14] that were put forth [38:15] by Act Blue [38:17] that are well-documented. [38:20] Do you regret any of the things [38:21] that you said [38:22] or any of the things [38:22] that Act Blue has done [38:23] in the past [38:24] in regards to foreign donations? [38:27] On the advice of counsel, [38:29] I respectfully decline [38:31] to answer the question [38:32] pursuant to my Fifth Amendment rights [38:34] under the Constitution. [38:36] If you had the chance [38:37] to pick another place [38:39] to be employed, [38:41] would you have joined Act Blue? [38:44] On the advice of my counsel, [38:46] I respectfully decline [38:48] to answer the question [38:49] pursuant to my Fifth Amendment rights [38:52] under the Constitution. [38:53] I am amazed [38:54] at the number of attorneys [38:55] that are behind you [38:56] to be able to coach you [38:57] to say these things. [38:59] That's really, [39:00] that's quite an expense [39:01] Act Blue is going to have. [39:03] It's just a tragedy [39:04] that we're here today [39:05] on partisan grounds. [39:06] We can't get to the truth. [39:08] This is what the American people [39:09] have asked Congress to do. [39:10] They ask us to get to the truth. [39:12] They don't talk about money [39:13] to go into Ukraine. [39:14] They don't talk about, [39:15] you know, Joe Biden [39:17] wanting to make sure [39:18] that he gets paid. [39:19] They just want the truth. [39:21] And the fact that you guys [39:23] have literally allowed, [39:25] continued, [39:26] and agreed with [39:27] foreign intervention [39:30] in our elections [39:31] just because of monetary consequences [39:34] which help certain types [39:35] of candidates, [39:36] in my opinion, [39:37] is horrible, disgusting, [39:39] egregious, [39:40] and sadly, [39:41] unpatriotic and un-American. [39:43] I wish I could ask you more, [39:45] but I know what the answers [39:45] are going to be. [39:47] I pray we get to this. [39:49] Maybe we'll get to this [39:49] in a court of law. [39:50] It seems like that's where [39:51] things are going these days. [39:52] So if you've got to plead the fifth, [39:53] that's where I guess we end up. [39:54] So thank you for coming today. [39:57] I'll yield back the remainder of the time. [39:59] The gentleman yields back. [40:00] The chair now recognizes [40:01] the ranking member [40:02] of the Judiciary Committee, [40:04] Mr. Raskin, [40:04] for five minutes [40:05] for the purpose of asking questions. [40:06] Thank you kindly, [40:07] Mr. Chairman. [40:08] A Republican donor [40:10] from Fort Worth [40:11] complained that Win Redd [40:13] siphoned $11,000 [40:15] from his account [40:16] without any personal authorization [40:18] from him. [40:18] He wrote, [40:19] I'm 81 years old [40:20] and I've been taken advantage of. [40:22] He's still waiting [40:23] for a response [40:24] from Attorney General Paxton. [40:26] Why isn't he here today [40:27] testifying about [40:28] what's actually taking place [40:29] to our people? [40:32] CNN reported [40:33] that one 82-year-old woman [40:34] wearing pajamas [40:36] with holes in them [40:37] when they interviewed her [40:38] because she didn't want [40:39] to spend money [40:40] on new pajamas [40:41] was swindled [40:42] of more than $350,000 [40:44] of her life savings [40:46] that she had no idea [40:48] she was giving to Republicans [40:50] through Win Redd. [40:51] This is what real fraud looks like. [40:53] Why don't we investigate it? [40:55] Attorney General Paxton, [40:56] who himself uses Win Redd, [40:58] systematically ignored [40:59] all of these desperate [41:01] constituent complaints. [41:03] But somehow, [41:04] the day after James Tallarico, [41:05] Mr. Paxton's opponent [41:06] in his Senate race [41:08] raised a remarkable [41:09] $2.5 million [41:10] in a 24-hour period [41:13] from ActBlue, [41:14] Mr. Paxton suddenly decided [41:15] to investigate ActBlue [41:17] and dispatch [41:18] undercover investigators [41:19] to trawl [41:21] ActBlue's business practices. [41:23] Meantime, [41:23] Paxton has consistently [41:25] ignored oversight letters [41:27] ranking members [41:28] Morelli, Garcia, [41:29] and I have sent to him. [41:30] But whistleblowers [41:31] come forward [41:32] every day [41:33] about Win Redd's fraud. [41:35] Just this week, [41:36] my office got a whistleblower tip [41:37] from a woman in Colorado, [41:39] a registered Republican [41:40] who said she gave $100 [41:42] through Win Redd, [41:44] which Win Redd turned [41:45] into recurring [41:46] weekly $100 contributions [41:48] without her permission. [41:49] She's been fighting [41:50] over these fraudulent charges [41:52] since February, [41:53] contacting Win Redd [41:54] and the Republican National Committee, [41:56] but has gotten [41:56] absolutely nowhere. [41:57] So she reached out [41:59] to my office for help. [42:00] And if that's the way [42:01] that Republicans treat Republicans, [42:03] it makes sense to me [42:04] that Donald Trump [42:04] has the lowest opinion ratings [42:06] of any president [42:07] in decades. [42:08] But it's not just Paxton [42:10] covering up Win Redd's fraud. [42:11] Last summer, [42:12] we asked the Treasury Department [42:14] to turn over all [42:14] suspicious activity reports. [42:16] its financial monitors [42:19] have gotten related [42:20] to Win Redd. [42:21] And we asked FTC Chair [42:22] Andrew Ferguson [42:22] to turn over all complaints [42:24] related to Win Redd. [42:26] CNN has revealed [42:27] that Win Redd [42:27] had been used [42:28] to defraud [42:28] hundreds of elderly Americans [42:30] and mislead [42:32] specifically people [42:33] battling dementia [42:35] and other cognitive impairments, [42:39] including Alzheimer's disease, [42:43] into giving away [42:44] millions of dollars, [42:45] far more than they ever intended, [42:47] far more than [42:47] their families could afford. [42:49] But the Treasury Department [42:49] and the FTC [42:50] have refused [42:51] to turn over any documents [42:53] or even answer our letters. [42:55] They've refused to explain [42:56] why they won't [42:57] turn over the documents. [42:58] But one detail [42:59] in CNN's report [43:00] provides a hint. [43:02] The single biggest beneficiary [43:03] of all these small dollar donations [43:05] from these unwitting, [43:07] recurring donors [43:08] was none other [43:09] than Donald Trump, [43:11] the founder of Trump University. [43:14] There are some obvious things [43:15] that we can and should do [43:16] to stop online [43:17] fundraising abuse [43:19] across the board politically. [43:21] In 2021, [43:22] the FEC recommended [43:23] that Congress ban [43:24] pre-checked recurring donation boxes [43:27] so we would know [43:28] that any recurring donations [43:30] are unauthorized and illegal. [43:32] That would have prevented [43:33] many, if not most, [43:35] of the deplorable fraudulent practices [43:36] that have swindled millions [43:38] and millions of dollars [43:39] of people's life savings [43:40] in Texas [43:41] and all across the country. [43:42] That was common sense [43:43] when it was unanimously recommended [43:45] by the FEC [43:46] and it's common sense today. [43:47] Can we agree to that? [43:48] How about today? [43:49] I'd support that today. [43:51] But I fear this hearing [43:52] is not about making [43:53] any positive policy changes. [43:55] It's about hauling in the CEO [43:57] of ActBlue, [43:58] forcing her to take [43:59] the Fifth Amendment. [44:00] You know, [44:01] Donald Trump's taken [44:01] the Fifth Amendment [44:02] 440 times. [44:04] So before anybody starts [44:05] denouncing the Constitution [44:06] of the United States, [44:07] think about what you say [44:08] about people who invoke [44:10] the Fifth Amendment [44:10] against petty political [44:12] vendettas and prosecutions. [44:15] So this is exactly [44:19] the kind of thing [44:19] that the Fifth Amendment [44:20] was designed to be there for. [44:24] The Supreme Court has said [44:25] the Fifth Amendment [44:26] protects the innocent [44:27] as well as the guilty [44:27] people who might be ensnared [44:30] by ambiguous circumstances. [44:31] And we can see today [44:32] also ensnared [44:33] by political vendettas [44:35] and partisan investigations [44:38] instead of seriously [44:38] looking at a problem [44:39] and trying to address it. [44:41] That's what we should be doing. [44:42] There are obviously [44:43] problems across the board. [44:45] Most of them relate [44:45] to WinRed, [44:46] but I'm sure some of them [44:47] could relate to ActBlue2. [44:49] Why aren't we seriously [44:50] addressing that? [44:51] Why does everything [44:52] have to be the occasion [44:53] for partisan exploitation [44:54] and persecution [44:55] instead of actually doing [44:57] the business of the public? [44:59] So we're waiting [45:00] for a lot of answers [45:00] from WinRed. [45:01] I hope that we will get them [45:03] and I hope that we can [45:03] have real change [45:04] with a real investigation [45:06] and a real hearing. [45:07] I yield back [45:07] and thank you, Mr. Chairman. [45:08] The gentleman yields back. [45:09] The gentleman from Georgia, [45:10] Mr. Loudermilk, [45:11] is recognized for five minutes. [45:13] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [45:15] Look, there's serious allegations [45:18] that have been made [45:19] against ActBlue [45:20] and they're exceptional [45:23] in these allegations [45:26] and either they're true [45:29] or they're not. [45:30] And this is part of what [45:31] we're here trying to determine. [45:34] But what is amazing to me [45:37] is my colleagues [45:39] on the other side of the aisle [45:40] have not addressed [45:41] one of these allegations. [45:44] If I was you, [45:45] I'd be a little offended [45:46] because not single one of them [45:47] has come to your defense. [45:49] Every one of them [45:50] have deflected [45:52] to something else. [45:54] Let's let's look a little bit [45:55] at some of the allegations. [45:57] The fact ActBlue, [45:58] in its own words, [45:59] decided to take a, quote, [46:01] more lenient approach [46:03] to fraud prevention [46:04] leading up to the 2024 election. [46:06] But instead of addressing that, [46:09] Mr. Morelli decides to talk about [46:11] a Chinese man gambling [46:13] in a casino. [46:16] Another fact, [46:16] ActBlue took action [46:18] despite detecting [46:19] at least 22 significant fraud campaigns [46:22] on its platform [46:23] in recent years. [46:24] Instead of addressing that, [46:27] Mr. Raskin wanted to talk [46:28] about some Texans buying pajamas. [46:33] Another, [46:35] in the wake of the 2024 election, [46:38] almost the entirety [46:39] of ActBlue's legal [46:40] and compliance department [46:41] was either fired, [46:42] resigned, [46:43] or left the company [46:45] alleging retaliation [46:46] for highlighting vulnerabilities [46:48] and unseriousness [46:50] in addressing fraudulent donations. [46:54] Instead of addressing that [46:55] or clarifying that, [46:57] Mr. Garcia wanted to talk about [46:59] the president's slush fund, [47:02] even though, [47:03] which he left off [47:05] as President Obama [47:06] had the same type of fund [47:07] called the Keeps Eagle Fund. [47:10] How did that help you [47:11] in your position here? [47:14] What that shows me [47:15] is they're not willing [47:17] to defend [47:17] against these allegations [47:19] because likely [47:20] they know that they're true. [47:21] This is called deflection. [47:22] This is politics [47:23] at its ugliest [47:25] and its dirtiest. [47:27] So, [47:28] I do have a series [47:30] of questions for you, [47:31] but I want to make sure [47:33] I'm respectful. [47:33] Is it Ms. Jones [47:34] or Ms. Wallace-Jones? [47:35] On the advice of counsel, [47:39] I respectfully decline [47:40] to answer the question [47:41] pursuant to my Fifth Amendment rights [47:43] under the Constitution. [47:45] Okay. [47:46] Wow. [47:46] Okay. [47:47] Didn't expect that one. [47:50] But I think I see [47:52] where this is going. [47:53] But let me go ahead [47:54] and ask questions. [47:57] What role do you play [47:58] in the process of Act Blue? [48:00] Well, let me back up. [48:01] I think I want to ask these first. [48:05] Ms. Wallace-Jones, [48:07] has the FEC ever completed [48:10] an audit of Act Blue [48:11] during the 2020 election cycle? [48:14] On the advice of counsel, [48:16] I respectfully decline [48:17] to answer the question [48:18] pursuant to my Fifth Amendment rights [48:20] under the Constitution. [48:22] Okay. [48:22] I just want to bring up, [48:24] Mr. Chairman, [48:25] that was a simple yes or no. [48:26] There's no allegation in that. [48:28] It was just whether [48:29] an audit of Act Blue [48:30] took place [48:31] in the 2020 election cycle. [48:32] Does Act Blue [48:34] have an application programming interface [48:36] with the FEC database? [48:39] On the advice of counsel. [48:41] I respectfully decline [48:42] to answer the question [48:43] pursuant to my Fifth Amendment rights [48:45] under the Constitution. [48:47] Okay. [48:49] This committee just passed [48:50] bipartisan legislation [48:51] that requires donors [48:52] to include their CVV or CVC [48:56] when donating [48:57] to a political campaign online. [48:59] The committee originally [49:00] passed the same legislation [49:01] last Congress [49:02] and pointed out [49:03] that Act Blue [49:04] did not require the CVV [49:05] for online donations. [49:07] Soon after that, [49:08] Act Blue changed its policies [49:09] to require the CVV. [49:10] What was that decision [49:14] connected to [49:15] to what this committee [49:16] was doing? [49:18] On the advice of counsel, [49:20] I respectfully decline [49:21] to answer the question [49:23] pursuant to my Fifth Amendment rights [49:25] under the Constitution. [49:29] What role do you play [49:30] in the process of Act Blue [49:31] changing fraud prevention policies [49:33] such as requiring a CVV [49:35] or increasing the thresholds [49:38] for risk tolerance? [49:39] On the advice of counsel, [49:42] I respectfully decline [49:43] to answer the question [49:44] pursuant to my Fifth Amendment rights [49:47] under the Constitution. [49:51] Mr. Chairman, [49:52] it appears that [49:53] since I can't even, [49:55] her name is protected [49:57] under the Fifth Amendment [49:58] of the Constitution. [49:59] I don't think my time [50:01] is going to be more well spent, [50:02] so I yield back. [50:04] The gentleman yields back. [50:05] The gentlewoman, [50:07] Representative Sewell, [50:08] is recognized for five minutes [50:09] for the purpose of asking questions. [50:10] Mr. Chairman, [50:12] I want to begin [50:13] by unequivocally stating [50:14] that guaranteeing [50:15] the authenticity [50:16] of campaign donations [50:18] requires serious [50:20] and honest engagement. [50:22] I believe Congress [50:23] should be making deliberate efforts [50:25] to prevent foreign donors [50:27] from attempting [50:28] to influence our democracy, [50:30] and any investigation [50:31] that would be serious [50:33] use of our time [50:35] and our resources [50:36] here in this committee [50:36] would include an investigation [50:38] not just of Act Blue, [50:40] but of Win Red as well. [50:44] We're holding a hearing today, [50:47] quote-unquote, [50:47] an investigation [50:48] to prevent fraudulent donations, [50:50] but it's nothing more [50:52] than a hyper-partisan witch hunt. [50:54] This investigation [50:55] is just one example, [50:57] one more example, [50:59] of Republicans [50:59] and President Trump [51:00] using power of his office [51:02] to harass and intimidate [51:04] anyone willing to challenge him. [51:07] The Trump Department of Justice [51:08] has used its power [51:10] to intimidate and victimize [51:12] communities of color, [51:14] especially black Americans. [51:15] Just look at their targeted harassment [51:17] of the Southern Poverty Law Center, [51:19] an organization [51:20] that has worked tirelessly [51:21] for decades [51:22] to counter white supremacist organizations. [51:25] Over and over again, [51:27] Donald Trump's Department of Justice [51:28] has harassed black women [51:30] with bogus lawsuits. [51:32] We should not forget [51:34] their harassment [51:34] of the Federal Reserve [51:35] Board of Directors, [51:37] Board of Governors, [51:38] Lisa Cook, [51:39] their harassment [51:39] of the New York Attorney General, [51:41] Tish James, [51:42] and their harassment [51:43] of our colleague, [51:44] New Jersey Congresswoman, [51:47] LaMonica MacGyver. [51:49] So it is not surprising [51:50] that this Republican-led committee [51:54] is now attacking Act Blue [51:56] and its CEO, [51:57] Ms. Wallace-Jones. [51:58] Why? [52:00] Because Act Blue [52:00] is a platform [52:01] that holds, [52:02] that helps empower voices [52:04] of thousands of millions [52:05] of American voters [52:06] and supports the electoral efforts [52:09] of a racially [52:10] and ideologically [52:11] diverse group of Americans [52:12] that are willing [52:13] to stand up against [52:14] the harmful actions [52:16] of this president. [52:17] This investigation [52:18] is clearly just an extension [52:19] of President Trump's [52:20] retribution tour. [52:21] And I want to apologize [52:23] to you, [52:24] Ms. Wallace-Jones, [52:25] for having to be here [52:27] and under these [52:28] very hyper-partisan circumstances [52:32] and not in any way [52:34] looking into an investigation [52:36] of fraudulent foreign donors [52:38] that would include [52:40] both Republican [52:40] and Democratic organizations. [52:43] This investigation [52:44] is clearly an extension [52:46] of President Trump's [52:47] retribution tour. [52:49] In April of last year, [52:50] the president issued [52:51] an executive order [52:52] targeting Act Blue [52:53] and demanding [52:54] a Department of Justice [52:55] investigation [52:56] into the platform. [52:58] Less than two weeks [52:59] after the executive order, [53:00] a group of committee [53:01] chairmen jointly sent [53:03] a letter to [53:04] Attorney General Bondi [53:05] that detailed [53:06] their committee's [53:07] quote, [53:08] ongoing investigations [53:09] into Act Blue, [53:11] unquote, [53:12] while pledging to, [53:13] quote, [53:13] work collaboratively [53:15] with DOJ, [53:16] end quote. [53:16] Let me repeat that again. [53:19] Pledging to work [53:19] collaboratively [53:21] with DOJ, [53:22] clearly committing [53:23] to using legislative tools [53:26] and information [53:27] to advance the executive [53:30] branch's law enforcement [53:33] vendetta. [53:35] This is clearly an attempt [53:37] by those with power [53:39] to go after those [53:41] who don't have power. [53:44] These are tactics [53:45] of an authoritarian regime. [53:48] This is clearly an attempt [53:49] to use the powers [53:50] of the federal government [53:50] to go after [53:52] Donald Trump's [53:53] political opposition. [53:54] Any meaningful investigation, [53:57] Mr. Chairman, [53:57] would also include [53:58] when read. [54:00] This committee should be [54:01] conducting serious work. [54:03] We would be better spent, [54:05] time better spent, [54:06] trying to provide [54:07] grant funding [54:09] for election systems [54:10] across this country. [54:11] Or we could be [54:13] considering approaches [54:14] to improving [54:14] the day-to-day operations [54:15] of the House of Representatives, [54:17] which is a core [54:17] jurisdictional function [54:19] of this committee. [54:20] Instead of spending [54:21] this time, [54:23] using invaluable time [54:26] and resources [54:27] of this committee [54:27] to go after [54:28] a witch hunt. [54:30] I'm embarrassed [54:30] that we're using [54:31] our committee time [54:33] in such a way, [54:34] and I want to again [54:35] apologize to [54:36] Ms. Wallace-Jones [54:37] for her having to be here [54:39] and listening [54:40] to this craziness. [54:43] With that, [54:44] I yield back my time. [54:45] The gentlewoman yields back. [54:47] The gentleman from North Carolina, [54:50] Dr. Murphy, [54:51] is recognized for five minutes. [54:52] I'll defer my time. [54:53] I'm not going to waste my time. [54:54] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [54:55] The gentleman yields back. [54:56] The gentlewoman from Texas, [55:00] Representative Johnson, [55:00] is recognized for five minutes. [55:03] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [55:04] This has to be [55:08] one of the most brazen, [55:11] political, desperate acts [55:14] I've seen in Congress [55:15] this hearing today. [55:17] It is disappointing, [55:21] it's disgusting, [55:23] and it's offensive. [55:24] We have seen [55:26] this administration [55:27] and Republicans in Congress [55:29] systematically go on an attack [55:32] to attack every aspect [55:34] of elections in this country [55:36] because Donald Trump [55:38] is terrified [55:38] that he's going to lose [55:40] the party's election control [55:42] in 2026. [55:44] Terrified [55:44] that Democrats [55:46] are going to take [55:47] the gavels back [55:48] in this building [55:49] to hold his administration [55:51] accountable [55:52] for the horrific damage [55:54] they've done [55:55] on the American people [55:56] to the economy, [55:58] to our deficit, [55:59] to everything [56:00] that this government [56:01] is supposed to be responsible. [56:02] And instead what they've done [56:03] is attack [56:05] what they've done [56:07] at every level. [56:08] So they've offered [56:08] the SAVE Act, right? [56:09] To keep people from voting, [56:12] to restrict access [56:13] to the ballot box, [56:14] to attack mail-in voting, [56:15] to attack people of color, [56:17] to attack people [56:18] from being able [56:19] to legally cast their ballot. [56:21] That wasn't good enough. [56:23] So what they've done [56:24] is partisan gerrymandering [56:25] to redraw the lines, [56:27] to make it so extreme [56:29] for people to cast ballots [56:31] because they're so terrified [56:33] that they're going to lose elections. [56:35] We have spent billions of dollars [56:37] in this country [56:38] responding to redrawing maps [56:41] because Donald Trump [56:42] and Republicans are afraid. [56:45] And now what are we doing? [56:46] Now we're going to go after [56:48] the money scheme, [56:49] the money path. [56:51] And if this was a legitimate exercise [56:53] in politics, [56:55] we would have Win Red [56:56] and Act Blue here together. [56:58] They both serve a purpose, [57:00] which is to seek a vehicle [57:02] for people to give [57:03] small-dollar contributions [57:05] to the political candidates [57:07] of their choice. [57:09] But we're not here [57:10] to have a legitimate, [57:12] responsible dialogue. [57:13] We're here again [57:15] because Republicans [57:16] are desperate and afraid [57:17] and they're coming to attack [57:18] Ms. Wallace-Jones, [57:21] the head of Act Blue, [57:23] out of a lack of seriousness. [57:25] Because Win Red [57:29] is a corrupt organization, [57:32] and I've seen firsthand [57:34] what Ken Paxton [57:35] and the Texas Attorney General [57:37] has done [57:37] to abuse his authority [57:39] and the overwhelming depth [57:42] of corruption [57:43] that that man has put [57:44] on the state of Texas [57:46] and through Win Red. [57:48] We've seen examples [57:48] highlighted by my colleagues. [57:51] I'm the only member [57:52] of this committee [57:52] that was in the state legislature [57:54] that had the privilege [57:55] to convict and impeach [57:57] Ken Paxton [57:58] when I was in the Texas House. [58:00] And I've seen up close [58:02] and personal [58:03] the depth of his corruption [58:04] and what he did that [58:07] through Win Red. [58:10] So the fact that Win Red [58:11] isn't here, [58:12] the fact that Republicans [58:13] have no desire [58:14] to police their own side [58:15] of the street, [58:16] their own house, [58:18] just highlights, again, [58:20] the political desperateness [58:22] by which we are here. [58:25] Because at the end of the day, [58:26] now they're so scared, [58:28] they've redrawn the maps, [58:30] they've tried to restrict [58:31] people's access [58:31] to the polls, [58:32] they're not investing [58:34] in election integrity [58:35] and election security [58:36] to make sure that we have [58:37] the appropriate number [58:38] of machines, [58:39] the appropriate number [58:39] of offices. [58:40] They're doing everything [58:41] they can to keep [58:42] our overseas people [58:44] from being able [58:45] to cast a ballot. [58:47] Now they're trying [58:47] to go after the money [58:48] of Democratic small donors, [58:50] the little mom and pops, [58:52] the little teachers [58:52] who send their $25 a month in [58:55] to elect the candidates [58:56] of their choice [58:57] because they're terrified [59:00] that they're going to lose [59:02] in November. [59:05] So my comment [59:06] to the American people [59:07] is vote, [59:09] contribute through Act Blue, [59:11] send money [59:12] to your Democratic candidates, [59:14] make sure that Democrats [59:16] win in November [59:17] so we can stop this nonsense [59:18] once and for all. [59:20] And I yield back. [59:22] The gentlewoman yields back. [59:23] The gentlewoman from Illinois, [59:25] Representative Miller, [59:25] is recognized [59:26] for five minutes. [59:27] Thank you, Chairman. [59:28] I want to take a moment [59:29] to highlight a section [59:31] of an Act Blue [59:32] employee training document, [59:34] Fraud Prevention 101, [59:36] for new associates [59:38] in the workflow. [59:40] Your company's memo states, [59:42] and I quote, [59:44] if an otherwise legitimate donor [59:46] uses a fake name, [59:48] we would want to accept [59:50] their donation. [59:51] End quote. [59:53] Can you confirm [59:53] whether this is the advice [59:55] that you give [59:56] to your employees? [59:58] On the advice of counsel, [1:00:00] I respectfully decline [1:00:01] to answer the question [1:00:02] pursuant to my Fifth Amendment rights [1:00:05] under the Constitution. [1:00:08] Chairman, I yield back. [1:00:10] The gentlewoman yields back. [1:00:12] This committee is engaged [1:00:13] in a legitimate inquiry [1:00:14] of possible serious violations [1:00:17] of federal election law. [1:00:19] These are issues [1:00:20] that are clearly [1:00:20] within the jurisdiction [1:00:22] of this committee, [1:00:23] the Committee on House Administration. [1:00:24] And the information we're seeking [1:00:26] is important to assist us [1:00:27] in our legislative [1:00:28] and oversight responsibilities. [1:00:31] You've invoked [1:00:31] your Fifth Amendment privilege [1:00:33] against self-incrimination. [1:00:34] That is, [1:00:35] your constitutional right. [1:00:36] I'm disappointed to say [1:00:38] that it's clear [1:00:38] that you're not going [1:00:39] to answer the committee's [1:00:40] questions today. [1:00:41] I can assure everyone, though, [1:00:43] that the committee [1:00:44] will continue to take [1:00:45] every appropriate step [1:00:46] to obtain the information [1:00:48] that we are seeking. [1:00:49] Without objection, [1:00:50] the witness is excused. [1:01:47] It's now in order [1:01:57] to consider the motion [1:01:58] offered by Mr. Morelli [1:02:00] from New York. [1:02:02] Mr. Chairman, [1:02:02] I have a motion. [1:02:04] The gentleman's recognized. [1:02:05] May I be here [1:02:05] on the motion? [1:02:08] The gentleman's recognized. [1:02:10] I have a motion [1:02:10] to table the motion [1:02:11] to subpoena. [1:02:12] The motion to table [1:02:13] is not debatable. [1:02:14] All those in favor [1:02:15] of tabling, [1:02:16] signify by saying aye. [1:02:17] Aye. [1:02:18] All those opposed, [1:02:19] signify by saying no. [1:02:20] No. [1:02:21] The opinion of the chairs, [1:02:21] the ayes have it. [1:02:22] The motion table [1:02:23] is agreed to. [1:02:25] A recorded vote [1:02:26] is requested. [1:02:27] The clerk will please [1:02:28] call the roll. [1:02:30] Chairman Stile? [1:02:31] No. [1:02:32] Chairman Stile, [1:02:33] let's no. [1:02:35] Yes. [1:02:36] Mr. Laudermilk? [1:02:38] Yes. [1:02:39] Yes. [1:02:39] Mr. Laudermilk, [1:02:41] that's yes. [1:02:42] Mr. Griffith? [1:02:43] Yes. [1:02:44] Mr. Griffith votes yes. [1:02:45] Dr. Murphy? [1:02:46] Yes. [1:02:46] Dr. Murphy votes yes. [1:02:47] Mrs. Spice? [1:02:48] Mr. Carey? [1:02:52] Yes. [1:02:54] Mrs. Spice votes yes. [1:02:58] Mrs. Miller? [1:03:01] Yes. [1:03:02] Okay. [1:03:02] Mr. Morelli? [1:03:05] No. [1:03:06] Mr. Morelli votes no. [1:03:08] Mrs. Sewell? [1:03:10] No. [1:03:11] Mrs. Sewell votes no. [1:03:12] Ms. Torres? [1:03:14] Ms. Johnson? [1:03:15] No. [1:03:16] Ms. Johnson votes no. [1:03:18] Ms. Clerk, I'd like to be recorded as yes. [1:03:27] Have all members voted? [1:03:30] Does any member wish to change their vote? [1:03:33] The clerk will report the tally. [1:03:34] Mr. Chairman, for this vote, [1:03:36] there are five yeses and three noes. [1:03:38] The motion carries. [1:03:40] I'd like to thank our committee members [1:03:43] for joining us today. [1:03:45] Without objection, [1:03:46] each member will have five legislative days [1:03:47] to insert additional material into the record [1:03:49] and to revise and extend their remarks. [1:03:51] There's no further business. [1:03:52] I want to thank the...