Sir David Attenborough and President Obama: The Full Interview

[00:00:00] Speaker 1: Today is my 89th birthday and to my very considerable surprise I find myself in a place that I've never been to before and which it is a great great privilege to visit: the White House with the President of the United States. The Oval Office is surely one of the most famous rooms in the whole world where history has been enacted, the home of arguably the most powerful man in the world. So to go to it is a huge privilege and perhaps a rather daunting one at that. All I can say was that it was not made to seem daunting and the President of the United States spoke to me in as friendly a term as I could possibly imagine. Friendly and hospitable and genuine. It was an extraordinary experience that I shall never forget. The President: Well, Mr. David Attenborough, thank you so much for being here. As I was telling [00:01:09] Speaker 2: you in our walkover, I have been a huge admirer of your work for a very long time. I have to say though that when I heard that you had gone down, you had dove into the Great Barrier Reef Reef again, 60 years after the first time you did it? That impressed me. But I was in a sub. I mean, I was in a very, very remarkable research sub and we went down to over 300 meters and that was just mind-boggling of course. [00:01:44] Speaker 1: Absolutely. Tell me how the Great Barrier Reef looked to you today compared to the first time that you went there and what story does that tell us about how we're doing in conserving these incredible treasures? [00:01:56] Speaker 2: David Attenborough: Well, of course, the whole population of Australia has increased a great deal. So the population up the east coast of Queensland has grown and so has industry. And wherever there are human beings and wherever there's industry, there are constantly on the East coast of Queensland. [00:02:14] Speaker 1: David Attenborough: And the consequences on a coast are likely to be not too good for the Reef, which is quite true. And the Australians are addressing that. The real problem on the Reef is the global one, which is what is happening with the increase in acidification and the rise in the ocean temperature. David Attenborough: And the Australians have done research on coral now and they know for sure that if they go up on a degree or a degree and a half and so on, it will kill coral, will kill the species of coral. David Attenborough: Right. David Attenborough: And what they're concerned about now is, I mean, that seems almost inevitable. What it seems now is, can they find the right species to maintain the reef's population? [00:03:09] Speaker 2: David Attenborough: Right. So really, there's a mitigation strategy that they're trying to come up with. But what we're seeing is global trends that depend on the entire world working together. David Attenborough: Yes. David Attenborough: And sadly, it seems as if we haven't made as much progress as we need to on climate change. David Attenborough: Now, given the work that you've done, though, the good news is, is that there are some areas where we have made progress. David Attenborough: We've been able, here in the United States, for example, with the Clean Air and the Clean Water Act, to clean up areas that 20, 30, 40 years ago seemed like they'd never recover. David Attenborough: And once we took some sensible steps, turns out that nature was fairly resilient. But it required us being fairly intentional and really go at the problem in a serious way. [00:04:04] Speaker 1: David Attenborough: Certainly, the resilience of the natural world gives you great hope, really. David Attenborough: Right. David Attenborough: Given nature half a chance, it really takes it and works with it. But we are throwing huge problems at it. David Attenborough: Right. David Attenborough: Right. David Attenborough: And the rising in temperature, global temperature, is a very, very serious worry, indeed, it seems to me. What concerns me is that when we're sitting in Europe, we see what you did by saying we're going to put a man on the moon in 10 years. David Attenborough: Right. David Attenborough: I'm supposing you said in 10 years, the United States will organize and the world and energize the world to find a solution, to find a way of producing energy with no problems. David Attenborough: That is to say, exploiting sunshine to a degree and finding ways of storing electricity, because if you did that, so much problems would be solved. [00:05:05] Speaker 2: David Attenborough: Well, that's what we're going to be shooting for. I mean, we've made enormous investments. David Attenborough: We doubled our investment in clean energy here in the United States. David Attenborough: I just, last year, came back from China with an agreement from the Chinese to work with us on reducing emissions. David Attenborough: But we're not moving as fast as we need to. David Attenborough: And part of what I know from watching your programs and all the great work you've done is that these ecosystems are all interconnected. David Attenborough: And that if just one country is doing the right thing, but other countries are not, then we're not going to solve the problem. David Attenborough: We're going to have to have a global solution to this. [00:05:49] Speaker 1: David Attenborough: And the solutions are global, have to be global. David Attenborough: And that has been the huge encouragement over the past 10 years that the United States and indeed China, two vast, important nations, have actually agreed to take these steps. David Attenborough: That surely will go down in history as epoch making, but the job is not yet done. David Attenborough: No, we're far from it. [00:06:12] Speaker 2: David Attenborough: Let me backtrack for a second. David Attenborough: How did you get interested in nature and wanting to record it? David Attenborough: When you think back after the storied career, what is it that led to such a deep fascination with how the natural world worked? [00:06:32] Speaker 1: David Attenborough: Well, I've never met a child. David Attenborough: Who's not fascinated. David Attenborough: Who's not interested in natural history. David Attenborough: So the, I mean, just the simplest thing, a five-year-old turning over a stone and seeing a slug, you know, and says, what a treasure. David Attenborough: Well, how does it live? David Attenborough: What are those things on the front? David Attenborough: Kids love it. David Attenborough: Yeah. David Attenborough: Kids understand the natural world and the fascinated ones. David Attenborough: So the question is, how did you lose it? David Attenborough: How did anyone lose the nature? David Attenborough: Yeah. David Attenborough: And certainly I never lost it. David Attenborough: Yeah. David Attenborough: But if you do lose it, and I imagine there are lots of other attractions that can make, divert your attention, you've lost a very, very great treasure. [00:07:08] Speaker 2: David Attenborough: At what point did you decide that you wanted to make it your life's work to help record? [00:07:17] Speaker 1: David Attenborough: And that, I don't think I ever dared say it was a nice work, because after all, when I started, there wasn't any television. David Attenborough: Yeah. David Attenborough: And all I knew was I wanted to try and understand the way the world works, the natural world works. David Attenborough: Right. David Attenborough: It's a great fascination. David Attenborough: Right. David Attenborough: And so I took zoology and natural sciences at university. David Attenborough: But then I had to go into the Navy. David Attenborough: It was the end of the war, and I was conscripted into the Navy for a couple of years. David Attenborough: And then I got it, when I came out, I didn't think I was cut out to be a proper scientist. David Attenborough: But anyway, I went into television and managed to, I was going to say manipulate television to allow me to go and see these wonderful things, which is what I've been doing ever since pretty well. [00:08:00] Speaker 2: David Attenborough: When you think of your favorite trips or your favorite discoveries or places in the world that you wish you could take everybody to, David Attenborough: So that they could really appreciate what this marvelous gift we've gotten is, what comes to mind. [00:08:19] Speaker 1: David Attenborough: Well, I think you would agree with me that the moment you first dive on a coral reef with tanks so that you are weightless. David Attenborough: That being weightless is enough to make a memorable event for you. David Attenborough: But when you can do it on a reef with this multitude of multicolored organisms, the like of which you've never seen before, David Attenborough: And you can just with a flick of your fin, you can go down or you can go up and then you can see these great sharks and things coming in from the ocean. David Attenborough: That surely has to be one of the great sensations, a new world. [00:08:54] Speaker 2: David Attenborough: Well, growing up in Hawaii, it was one of the things that taught me not only to appreciate nature, but also that you had to care for it. David Attenborough: And, you know, because we spent so much time outside. David Attenborough: And I think there was part of the Native Hawaiian culture that is true of many Native cultures, the sense of needing to care for the environment that you're in, that sometimes we lose when we live in big cities. David Attenborough: The interesting thing is that my daughters, I find Malia and Sasha, who are 16 and 13 now, they're much more environmentally aware this generation than I think some previous generations. David Attenborough: They do not dispute, for example, the science around climate change. David Attenborough: No. David Attenborough: They think it's self apparent that we've got a problem and that we should be doing something about it. [00:09:45] Speaker 1: David Attenborough: I absolutely agree. Certainly the letters I get, they bring tears to the eyes from kids of all ages and the young people, they care. David Attenborough: They know that this is the world that they're going to grow up in and they're going to spend the rest of their lives in. David Attenborough: Right. David Attenborough: But I think it's more idealistic than that. David Attenborough: They actually believe that humanity, human species has no right to destroy and despoil regardless. David Attenborough: Right. David Attenborough: They actually feel that very powerfully. [00:10:17] Speaker 2: David Attenborough: They do. Yeah. David Attenborough: When you think about 40 years from now, what are the prospects for this blue marble that we live on in the middle of space? David Attenborough: Do you get a sense that we're going to be able to get ahead of these problems? David Attenborough: Do you think that with the prospects of climate change, rising populations, that it's realistic for us to be able to get a handle on these issues and reverse some of the problems? David Attenborough: Or are you more pessimistic? [00:10:55] Speaker 1: David Attenborough: I believe that if we find ways of generating and storing power from renewable resources, we will make the problem with oil and coal and other carbon problems disappear. David Attenborough: Right. David Attenborough: Because economically, we will wish to use these other methods. David Attenborough: Right. David Attenborough: And if we do that, a huge step will have been taken towards solving the problems of the earth. [00:11:22] Speaker 2: David Attenborough: Well, I think you're right about that, that there's got to be an economic component to this. David Attenborough: You know, my father was from Kenya. David Attenborough: And I still remember the first time I went to Maasai Mara and the Serengeti and saw the Great Migration. David Attenborough: And, you know, it's like going back into the Garden of Eden when you see the wildebeest and the zebras and you're transported. David Attenborough: But I remember talking to the rangers out there and, you know, they're dealing with issues of poaching and other problems. David Attenborough: But the principal problem initially that they had was that the populations around the parks didn't feel any economic incentive to help preserve it. David Attenborough: And when the national parks started to work with the local farmers and saying to them, there's ways for you to do well while still conserving this great treasure that we have, that's when you've got cooperation. David Attenborough: And I think all too often we pose this as an economic development versus environment problem rather than recognizing that there's a way of marrying those two concerns. [00:12:36] Speaker 1: David Attenborough: That indeed is the case, but the trouble is that as fast as you find solutions along those lines, the problem grows bigger. David Attenborough: Yeah. David Attenborough: Because the increase in population in Kenya is very, very considerable. David Attenborough: Right. David Attenborough: And it's very difficult if you're growing a family and you want to grow your own food and so on. David Attenborough: Right. David Attenborough: And you can see all that space occupied by elephants or whatever. David Attenborough: Right. David Attenborough: So what about us? David Attenborough: Right, exactly. David Attenborough: And population's growth is one of the huge problems. David Attenborough: Yeah. [00:13:05] Speaker 2: David Attenborough: Well, which is why we're spending a lot of time including working with my wife around issues of girls' education. David Attenborough: It turns out that when young women are getting proper schooling and see opportunity, David Attenborough: they're less likely to have children early, smaller families, population stabilize. David Attenborough: And so it actually ends up helping not only those young women succeed and look after their children, David Attenborough: but it also helps the environment involved. [00:13:38] Speaker 1: David Attenborough: So you have to have a literate, informed population with medical understanding of what problems are David Attenborough: Right. David Attenborough: and what's available. David Attenborough: Right. David Attenborough: And then the population, the birth rate falls. David Attenborough: It's not the end of the story. David Attenborough: Right. David Attenborough: But the birth rate falling is the start of the solution. David Attenborough: Right. [00:13:55] Speaker 2: David Attenborough: Right. David Attenborough: The Internet's been a powerful tool, though, for this generation, I think, to become aware of all the wonders of the world. David Attenborough: When you were starting off, maybe you could get a program on once every so often. David Attenborough: Now, on your telephone, you can see glaciers and the Amazon. [00:14:17] Speaker 1: David Attenborough: Well, it is an extraordinary paradox, isn't it, that the United Nations tells us David Attenborough: That over 50% of the human population of the planet are urbanized. David Attenborough: Right. David Attenborough: Which means that, to some degree, they are cut off from the natural world. David Attenborough: Right. David Attenborough: And after all, some people are totally cut off. David Attenborough: They don't see a wild creature from dawn till dusk, unless it's a rat or a pigeon. David Attenborough: Right. David Attenborough: And yet, at the same time, mass media can get informed those people as to what the natural world is. David Attenborough: Unless they don't understand, if they don't understand about the workings of the natural world, they won't take the trouble to protect it. David Attenborough: That's one of the roles that the media should have, of maintaining a link between the population and understanding of what goes on in the natural world. David Attenborough: Because why should they give up money on taxes, come to that, to protect the natural world, unless they actually care about it? David Attenborough: Right. [00:15:13] Speaker 2: David Attenborough: Have you had a chance to travel much through our national parks in the United States? David Attenborough: Because one of my predecessors, Teddy Roosevelt, started the national parks. David Attenborough: Yeah. David Attenborough: What a legacy that's been. [00:15:27] Speaker 1: David Attenborough: The United States was the model for the world. David Attenborough: Yeah. David Attenborough: I mean, Yosemite and so on, and the founding of those great national parks. David Attenborough: Right. David Attenborough: Yes, indeed, have I traveled there. David Attenborough: And boy, what a wonderful time one has there. David Attenborough: Yeah. David Attenborough: And great lodges, and great treks. David Attenborough: Yeah. David Attenborough: And the space still, it doesn't matter how, you know, all these visitors come and yet you can still be alone up there, up in the Yukon or wherever. [00:15:52] Speaker 2: David Attenborough: It's one of the great, I think, secrets of the United States is how big David Attenborough: it is, and there are big chunks of it that are still undisturbed. David Attenborough: And when you fly over the country, you're reminded about what a blessing it is. David Attenborough: There aren't many places with such low density where you can just walk for miles. [00:16:16] Speaker 1: David Attenborough: Well, to have in your own country the Okefenokee swamp down there, David Attenborough: and the glaciers of Alaska up there, and Yosemite and the Rockies over there. David Attenborough: Oh, gosh. David Attenborough: Yeah. [00:16:28] Speaker 2: David Attenborough: Well, this is part of the reason why what we've been doing is trying to David Attenborough: initiate ways to get more children and young people to use the parks. David Attenborough: And as you said, so many of these kids are growing up cut off. David Attenborough: They're sitting on the couch, they're playing video games. David Attenborough: If they experience nature, it's through a television screen. David Attenborough: And just getting them out there so that they're picking up that rock and David Attenborough: finding that slug. David Attenborough: And they're seeing that bird with colors that they've never seen before. [00:16:58] Speaker 1: David Attenborough: And they're earning a bit of self-reliance, too. David Attenborough: Yeah. David Attenborough: I mean, it's very, very difficult, if you've never been outside, David Attenborough: Right. David Attenborough: to find yourself in a forest. David Attenborough: Right. David Attenborough: I mean, I've been humiliated enough in the Amazon forest and losing myself. David Attenborough: And you really do feel an idiot. David Attenborough: And the local people, tribes people look at you and you think, you're lost? David Attenborough: Where were you brought up? David Attenborough: The answer is not in the forest. David Attenborough: Yeah. David Attenborough: But kids can learn and they love it when they do. [00:17:27] Speaker 2: David Attenborough: And if you were to think about how we could raise awareness, because you've been a great educator as well as a great naturalist. David Attenborough: How do you -- how do you think we can reach the public around these issues, David Attenborough: not only to make them aware of the dangers of an issue like climate change, David Attenborough: but also to feel a sense of agency and capacity to change it. David Attenborough: Another way of asking this is maybe, what do you think are some of the most stubborn misconceptions about nature David Attenborough: that lead us not always to get out in front of these problems? [00:18:08] Speaker 1: David Attenborough: I think only unfamiliarity. David Attenborough: And I don't see how you can hope to take somebody who has spent the first 16 years of his life David Attenborough: surrounded by bricks and mortar and then suddenly puts him in the middle of a rainforest David Attenborough: and expect him to find his way or know how to live or indeed how to survive and find food. David Attenborough: And I'm not sure that that is absolutely necessary anyway. David Attenborough: I think what is required is an understanding and a gut feeling that you understand that the natural world is part of your inheritance. David Attenborough: Right. David Attenborough: It is -- this is the planet on which we live. David Attenborough: It's the only one we've got. David Attenborough: Yeah. David Attenborough: And we've got to protect it. David Attenborough: And people do feel that deeply and instinctively. David Attenborough: And it is, after all, the natural world is where you go in moments of celebration and moments of grief. David Attenborough: It is the greatest prop and stay to humanity's own feeling for himself, itself, herself, ourself. [00:19:08] Speaker 2: David Attenborough: No, well, you know, if you think about, you know, in all the world's religions, you know, when you're seeking wisdom, you're seeking to hear God, you're in the desert, or you go to great waters, or you go up to great mountain peaks, you know, recapturing that sense of wonder. David Attenborough: And the amazement of the natural world and its powers, you know, that's what speaks to what's deepest in us. David Attenborough: And, you know, what's critically important is making sure that we're passing that on to future generations. David Attenborough: You know, you and I, we've been blessed to be able to see it and experience it and be moved by it. David Attenborough: And I want to make sure that my daughters and their children are experiencing that same thing. David Attenborough: Thank you. [00:20:13] Speaker ?: David Attenborough: Thank you. David Attenborough: Thank you. David Attenborough: Thank you. David Attenborough: Thank you. David Attenborough: Thank you. David Attenborough: Thank you. David Attenborough: Thank you. David Attenborough: Thank you. David Attenborough: Thank you. David Attenborough: Thank you. David Attenborough: Thank you. David Attenborough: Thank you. David Attenborough: Thank you. David Attenborough: Thank you. David Attenborough: Thank you. David Attenborough: Thank you. David Attenborough: Thank you. David Attenborough: Thank you. David Attenborough: Thank you. David Attenborough: Thank you. David Attenborough: Thank you. David Attenborough: Thank you. David Attenborough: Thank you. David Attenborough: Thank you. David Attenborough: Thank you. David Attenborough: Thank you. David Attenborough: Thank you. David Attenborough: Thank you. David Attenborough: Thank you. David Attenborough: Thank you. David Attenborough: Thank you. David Attenborough: Thank you. David Attenborough: Thank you. David Attenborough: Thank you. David Attenborough: Thank you. David Attenborough: Thank you. Thank you.