Senate probe under fire: Are the 'maleta boys' credible witnesses? — Atty. Dino De Leon

[0:00] PNC, the Billionario News Channel. [0:04] The so-called Maleta boys are under fire for alleged inconsistencies in their allegations regarding the flood control controversy. [1:46] Good morning, I'm Attorney Karen Jimeno and this is At The Forefront. [1:56] House Justice Panel Chairperson Jervil Luistro has filed a libel complaint against the so-called Maleta boys. [2:04] They claim the lawmaker received cash payoffs. [2:07] Senator Irwin Tulfo has also filed a grave oral defamation complaint against three of the Maleta boys for claiming he also received kickbacks. [2:18] Amid alleged inconsistencies in their testimony, the Maleta boys are being summoned in the flood control probe of the Senate Blue Ribbon Committee. [2:28] Should they be allowed to testify again? [2:30] To answer this and other issues, we'll be speaking with Attorney Dino De Leon of Team Pinas. [2:37] Good morning, Attorney Dino. [2:38] Good morning, Karen, and it's good to see you again. [2:41] Okay, Attorney Dino, as a lawyer, how would you assess the testimony of the so-called Maleta boys? [2:48] Well, I'm glad that you called them Maleta boys and not 18 Marines because, as you know, they're not all former Marine members. [2:58] A lot of them are not even connected with the Armed Forces of the Philippines. [3:01] A lot of them are dishonorably discharged, as stated by the Armed Forces of the Philippines. [3:07] So, yun pa lang, intrinsically, alam naman natin mga abogado, medyo questionable na kung you were dishonorably discharged in terms of credibility. [3:15] Ibig sabihin meron kang malalang ginawa sa servisyo, it could be dishonesty, it could be a serious infraction, enough for the Armed Forces of the Philippines to dismiss you and for you to not get your retirement. [3:27] Ibig sabihin meron yan pag dishonorably discharged, despite the fact that you risk your life in service. [3:33] So, that's first. [3:34] If you're going to take a look at the testimonies themselves, and I'm counsel for Laila de Lima and Father Flavia, and we also filed two cases, perjury and cyber libel case. [3:45] Why is that so? [3:47] Let's take a look at even in the case of Laila de Lima. [3:49] Ang sabi sa kanya, congresswoman siya. [3:51] Nung time na yun, hindi siya congresswoman. [3:53] Kalalabas siya lang sa kulungan. [3:54] So, if this is related to the flood control scandal, supposedly, yun pinapalabas silang money, how would Laila de Lima have influenced or inserted something in the budget? [4:05] If number one, she was not a congressman, she was not a senator, and if we're referring to the time when she was in the Senate, [4:11] and that was Duterte's time, where how could she be powerful enough to insert something, and she was in jail for seven years. [4:18] So, again, that is inconsistent. [4:20] For Father Flavia, Ramon Magsaysay Prize Awardee, who has a vow of poverty, why will he accept, all of a sudden, this amount of money? [4:28] Parang hindi atakapanipaniwala sa kagaya ni Father Flavia. [4:33] Even their allegation for Tito Soto, supposedly, he was not a senator during that time, [4:38] and yet, they're saying that it's as if he accepted flood control money. [4:44] So, again, that is not palatable. [4:47] And then, if you're going to take a look at it, and I'm sure you've heard about it, [4:50] hindi talaga posible, hindi posible logistically. [4:55] It's going to be a logistical nightmare. [4:56] I'm sure a lot of us would have counted kahit na one bundle lang of 100,000. [5:02] Pag binibilang mo yan isa-isa, kasi kailangan mo bilangin yan, baka may kumuha ng 1,000, di ba? [5:07] Bilangin mo isa yan, siguro it will take you 40 to 60 seconds to count. [5:11] Kahit mabilis ka, no? [5:13] We're talking about 800 metric tons of money. [5:18] And there was even a figure na this is around already 70 or 80 percent of the total money in circulation. [5:24] But hindi ba clenarify ni Atty. Baligod na ang pera na umiikot or yung mga ina-allege dito ng mga maleta boys? [5:35] It's related not just to the flood control money, but also to the unprogrammed appropriations. [5:40] Regardless kung saan yung source, kahit unprogrammed appropriations, Atty. Karen, [5:44] bakit yung mga recipients sila? [5:47] Yung tatlo, hindi nila ma-justify yun. [5:49] Si Father Flavi, si Tito Soto, si Laila de Lima, why would they have a share? [5:56] Oo, siguro ako naiisip ko lang when I was watching the proceedings. [5:59] Ang iisip kong link with respect to Father Flavi and Congressman Laila de Lima is because they're active in human rights, [6:08] baka dinilink doon sa ICC. [6:10] Supposedly. [6:11] And na pinag-uusapan na pinag-uusapan. [6:12] Kasi meron din mga pinupoint to sila na ICC investigators that they were escorting [6:19] at meron daw naging exchange o pinalitan from peso to dollars para dun sa mga ICC investigators. [6:25] Sa pang-uusapan ni Karen, medyo ridiculous talaga. [6:28] We're talking about an institution scrutinized by more than 120 countries with intelligence units. [6:36] And yung vetting system niyan, alam naman natin, isa sa pinag-inakamatitigas, [6:41] ng mga abogado who's known for the integrity in international criminal law. [6:45] And then all of a sudden tatanggap ng money from a local politician in the Philippines. [6:51] It really doesn't make sense and it flies against the face of reality. [6:56] And again, tandaan natin, laway lang ang puhuna nila, walang iba. [7:00] Walang iba at all. [7:02] At talagay mo ba, it's not also them risking their career, their reputation, to come out publicly. [7:11] At sinasabi nga nila, may mga, yung na-last na hearing, parang may mga kamag-anak silang nagkasakit. [7:18] And Attorney Baligod was saying they had to even raise money for their families na nangangailangan. [7:25] So pag ganun, parang how would you make sense of that? [7:27] That they would be willing to risk their faces and their names publicly to do this? [7:32] Again, reputation-wise, are they really risking something? [7:38] A lot of them were dishonorably discharged. [7:40] A lot of them were unknown. [7:41] In fact, walang masyadong malaking disincentive. [7:45] Remember, Attorney Karan, they've done that already in the case of Laila Delima before [7:49] when they've crafted Trump up charges. [7:52] Nung panahon ni former senator, former secretary, former chairperson of the Commission on Human Rights [7:57] who's known for her integrity, [7:59] all of a sudden, when she was investigating the war on drugs, [8:01] they got what? Convicted criminals who have nothing to lose. [8:05] So when you're saying they, sinong they? [8:07] Well, the Duterte camp. [8:08] So ang sinasabi mo, itong mga alleged maleta boys galing sa Duterte camp? [8:15] Yes, definitely. [8:16] Kasi sila yung may incentive to do this. [8:18] And in fact, all of these things are happening at a time when there's an impeachment complaint. [8:24] Kaya binalik na naman yung testimony nila. [8:26] These are all orchestrated and architected by the Duterte camp. [8:30] And I've seen this before. [8:31] I was counsel for Laila Delima for seven years when they've manufactured evidence. [8:35] This was cited by the Working Group on Arbitrary Detention of the United Nations. [8:41] Anong yung similar dito sa pattern na ito? [8:43] They will get incredible witnesses who have nothing to lose, who are unafraid to lie under oath. [8:51] And then all of a sudden, point out to all of the politicians who are opponents of the Duterte camp. [8:58] Pansinin mo, sino yung mga pinagtuturo nila? [9:00] Lahat yung mga opponents. [9:01] Pero original affidavit, diba? [9:03] Senator Irwin Tulfo pointed out, nakasama dati si Senator Loren Ligarda and Senator Mark Villar. [9:09] Tapos di nakasama. [9:09] Tapos biglang natanggad. [9:10] Di nakasama. [9:11] Kasi kakampi na si bigla si Loren Ligarda nung 10. [9:15] Tapos parang ang sabi, when I said, I will file a plunder case dito kay Loren Ligarda. [9:20] Kasi kung sinasabi niyang hero pala itong 18 Malietta Boys, [9:25] e di ibig sabihin, nagsasabi siya nila na totoo. [9:27] E in-identify siya, nilagay pa yung address siya, binigay daw sa kanila. [9:31] So, ibig sabihin, recipient ba siya? [9:33] Then all of a sudden, sinabi, hindi na pala siya recipient. [9:35] In-identify yung address, attorney Karen. [9:37] In-identify yung address niya, pero all of a sudden, hindi na siya kasali. [9:40] Just because, iba na yung political affiliation niya. [9:43] What's the point? [9:44] Sa akin lang, ang point niyan is, consistently, [9:47] consistently, ang tinuturo nila, anyone who's against the Dutertes. [9:51] ICC, who's investigating the Dutertes. [9:54] Yung mga perceived allies ng mga Marcoses. [9:57] Yung mga critical Duterte, Father Flavi, isang pare, [10:02] and Lila Delima, na naging critical because of the violent war on drugs. [10:06] Sila ang pinagtututuro. [10:07] Asaan yung mga supposedly recipient na mga projects na sila, CLTG builders? [10:13] Asaan yung billion-billion na supposedly 52 billion sa Davao? [10:17] Wala lahat eh. [10:18] So, again, for somebody who has seen this before, like me, [10:22] I would say that the pattern of manufacturing evidence is eerily similar. [10:29] It's eerily similar. [10:31] I've seen this before. [10:33] Laway lang ang puhunan. [10:34] Ipagtututuro yung mga kalaban nila by somebody who's intrinsically incredible [10:41] and there's no corroboratory evidence. [10:42] So, we're making them too powerful in manufacturing evidence, [10:46] in manufacturing allegations, [10:48] and then it becomes a national controversy because the Dutertes will give them a forum [10:52] and put them in their echo chamber in social media [10:55] para sabi nga nila, di ba, [10:57] if you repeat a lie a thousand times, it becomes the truth. [11:00] And yan, paulit-ulit nilang ilalagay yan sa maleta nila. [11:03] Kaya kung mapapansin mo, sa lahat ng mga trolls right now, [11:06] even for persons like me who's not in government, [11:10] ano tawag? [11:10] Tumagap yan ang maleta. [11:12] So, lagi nilang paulit-ulitin yung maleta na concept [11:15] so that it becomes the truth. [11:17] Even if intrinsically, it's incredible. [11:19] Balikan ko na yung sa logistics, di ba? [11:20] Bilang tayo dito ng 100,000, di ba? [11:24] It'll take us 40 seconds. [11:25] Pag kinumpute daw yan, [11:27] hanggang 2028, [11:28] kung 800 metric tons ng pera gumalaw, [11:32] hindi logistically possible na bibilangin mo, [11:35] sasalan silin mo, [11:35] lalagay mo sa plastic, [11:36] lalagay mo sa maleta. [11:37] Ang isang maleta, [11:39] nagbabiyahe tayo, [11:39] around 25 kilos eh, [11:41] 23 to 25 kilos eh, [11:42] ilang maleta yun, [11:44] ilang toneladang truck yun, [11:45] and around 70 to 80% of the total circulation of money [11:49] sa Pilipinas. [11:51] Ang nakakaalam lang yung 18 bagmen, [11:54] hindi nakakaalam ng ESAF, [11:57] hindi alam ng NBI, [11:58] hindi alam ng CIA. [11:59] Tandaan natin, [12:00] after 2001, [12:01] September 11 attacks, [12:03] monitored ang liquidity of money [12:05] all over the world. [12:06] Kung 70% of the money, [12:08] pumapasok pa na doon sa maleta voice [12:10] at sina nag-distribute, [12:11] hindi na monitor ng intelligence units [12:13] ng all over the world [12:15] that could be used to finance terrorism. [12:17] Hindi talaga siya incredible. [12:19] My question is, [12:19] meron din silang mga pictures [12:20] na pinakita, [12:21] including the ICC investigators, [12:23] but they also had [12:25] some details doon sa [12:27] supposed delivery nila [12:28] sa Ilocos, [12:30] doon sa bahay [12:31] ni President Bombo Marcus there. [12:33] So, would you say [12:35] na meron din sila talagang experience? [12:37] Siguro, [12:38] kung na-exaggerate yung amount [12:40] and yung mga ibang involved, [12:43] do you think there's any ounce of truth [12:44] in some of their allegations? [12:47] Ayoko nang sabihin na meron [12:48] kasi hindi mo naman [12:49] masaselect kung meron [12:51] kasi sinungaling na eh. [12:52] Sinungaling na sila kay Lagarda, [12:54] sinungaling na sila yung kay Mark Villar. [12:56] So, [12:56] ang tingin ko, [12:57] ang totoo, [12:58] some of them were bodyguard of Saltico. [13:01] Saltico probably met some people [13:03] and they were able to take photos. [13:05] Pero wala pa ako nakikita [13:06] kahit isang photo [13:07] kasi na inaabot nila yung pera [13:09] doon sa personality. [13:10] Di ba mahirap picturean yun [13:11] pag nag-aabot ng pera? [13:13] Well, [13:14] kung napicturean nila yung maleta, [13:16] bakit hindi nila ma... [13:17] Di ba intelligence? [13:18] Banda ito mga toha? [13:19] Marines. [13:20] If they want to, [13:21] they could use any gadget. [13:24] Marami na rin mga camera [13:25] na hindi naman phones. [13:26] Meron na yung mga shades, [13:28] meron na yung mga small equipment, [13:30] pero wala kahit isa eh. [13:32] Kahit isa. [13:32] Pero we're talking about [13:33] supposedly 800 billion pesos. [13:36] Balikan ko lang rin yung amount, [13:37] ha, [13:37] Attorney Karen. [13:38] Ang sabi nila is, [13:40] medyo nakakatawa. [13:41] Pwede ba sa ating mga abogado yung [13:43] sabihin mo ng 40 million [13:45] kadalinggo? [13:46] Sabihin mo ng ganyan, [13:47] tapos magkocompute. [13:48] Magkano ba talaga? [13:49] Mga siguro 200 a month. [13:51] So are you talking about [13:52] the line of questioning? [13:54] Hindi. [13:54] Yung kay Attorney Baligod, [13:55] siya una, [13:56] bakit lawyer ang pinagtatestify [13:58] sa Senate Blue Ribbon Committee? [13:59] He has no personal knowledge [14:00] of all the facts. [14:02] Pangalawa, [14:03] medyo nakakatawa pa yung way. [14:04] So mga magkano? [14:05] Mga siguro 40 million, [14:06] 33 million, [14:07] tapos compute natin sa calculator. [14:09] At magkano ba talaga? [14:10] Magpahinga ka nga muna, [14:11] sabi ni Marcoleta. [14:12] Get your thoughts together. [14:13] Tapos, [14:14] hindi ako sure. [14:14] Siguro mga 800 plus bill. [14:16] Pwede ba yun sa korte? [14:17] Pwede ba yung ganun tayo [14:19] magsasabi na, [14:19] hindi ko alam more or less, [14:21] mga 800 billion. [14:22] Di ba, [14:22] you have to be at least categorical. [14:24] Magkano yung di-deliver mo? [14:25] Paano mo nalaman [14:26] na ganun yung amount? [14:28] But if they're delivering, [14:29] is it in their position [14:30] to count exactly how much? [14:33] Di ba? [14:33] Kaya siguro estimate. [14:35] But before we move further, [14:37] kasi kailangan na natin [14:38] mag-commercial gap, [14:39] let's ask you first, [14:41] amid allegations [14:41] that there are inconsistencies [14:44] in their statements, [14:45] should they be allowed [14:46] to appear again [14:47] in another Blue Ribbon hearing? [14:49] But before you answer [14:49] this question, [14:50] we'll have to take a short break. [14:52] At the Forefront, [14:52] we'll be right back. [15:38] Welcome back, [15:39] At the Forefront. [15:40] We continue our conversation [15:41] with Attorney Dino De Leon. [15:43] Attorney Dino, [15:45] so amid allegations [15:46] of inconsistencies [15:47] in the statements [15:49] and testimonies [15:50] of the Maleta boys, [15:52] do you think [15:52] they should be allowed [15:53] to appear again [15:54] in the Blue Ribbon [15:55] committee hearings? [15:56] Well, sa akin, [15:57] to begin with, [15:58] the Blue Ribbon committee [15:59] is not supposed to [16:00] be the avenue anymore [16:02] for any kind of [16:03] investigation. [16:06] Whichever Blue Ribbon [16:07] committee it is, [16:08] yung fake Blue Ribbon [16:09] committee, [16:10] dila Mark Coleta [16:11] or your current [16:11] Blue Ribbon committee. [16:13] Why? [16:13] Because they're [16:13] investigating themselves. [16:15] Lauren Legarda, [16:16] for crying out loud, [16:17] was cited as a recipient. [16:19] Vicente Soto, [16:20] supposedly Tito Soto, [16:23] si Mark Villar, [16:24] how can you [16:25] investigate yourself [16:26] in the same manner [16:27] it shouldn't be the house. [16:28] At any rate, [16:29] these cases are already [16:29] pending before the Ombudsman [16:31] and they submitted [16:32] their affidavits [16:33] already, number one. [16:34] So as a matter [16:35] of principle, [16:36] I don't think that [16:37] the Senate [16:37] and the House [16:38] should be investigating [16:39] this. [16:40] Number two, [16:41] and there are already [16:41] pending cases. [16:42] However, [16:43] however, [16:44] eh lumabasa naman [16:45] ulit yung testimony, [16:46] dila eh, [16:46] di ba? [16:47] So baka, [16:48] whether we like it [16:49] or not. [16:49] So, [16:51] as to the question [16:52] whether it's appropriate, [16:53] it's different from [16:54] what is the practical [16:55] effect of not [16:56] inviting them [16:57] considering that [16:58] their testimonies [16:59] were aired again. [17:00] So, [17:02] propriety, [17:03] hindi na dapat [17:03] pero andyan na yan eh. [17:05] So sa akin, [17:05] dahil para bang [17:07] nung ini-interview sila [17:09] ni Rodante Marcoleta, [17:10] eh mas kamisado pa ni [17:11] Rodante Marcoleta [17:12] yung testimony nila [17:13] in terms of [17:13] una, [17:14] leading question na nga. [17:15] Pangalawa, [17:16] habang nile-lead, [17:17] eh kinokorek pa [17:18] yung testimony. [17:19] If we've watched [17:19] Rodante Marcoleta's [17:21] questioning [17:21] and everyone else's [17:22] questioning, [17:23] even Alan Peter Quetano's [17:24] questioning, [17:25] hindi papasa sa ating [17:25] mga abogado yun, [17:26] hindi papasa sa korte yun eh. [17:27] Sila yung nagpapakain [17:29] kung ano yung [17:29] i-testimonya. [17:30] Leading questions. [17:32] Way more than [17:32] leading questions. [17:33] I remember kasi [17:34] part of it [17:34] when I was watching, [17:35] I was sitting next to [17:36] my dad who's also [17:37] a lawyer. [17:37] Sabi niya, [17:38] napapaganan siya, [17:39] leading question. [17:40] Tapos sabi niya, [17:41] after a while, [17:41] sabagay, [17:42] hindi naman court yan, [17:43] blue ribbon hearing. [17:44] Blue ribbon hearing [17:46] na hindi pa blue ribbon [17:47] kasi wala namang [17:48] stenographer. [17:50] Di ba? [17:50] Hindi yun official session eh. [17:51] Walang stenographer, [17:52] walang secretary. [17:53] There's even a dispute [17:54] kung under oath talaga yun. [17:55] Kasi sino nagpa-oath [17:56] sa kanila? [17:57] Eh, hindi naman [17:58] notary yun, [17:59] hindi naman yun ombudsman. [18:00] So anyway, [18:01] sa akin, [18:02] dapat yata na [18:04] sige, [18:04] pagbigyan [18:05] para ma-answer [18:06] yung proper questions [18:07] at ma-scrutinize [18:08] yung kanilang [18:09] mga earlier pronouncements. [18:11] Pero ayaw nila eh, [18:12] namimili sila eh. [18:13] Ito, [18:13] attorney Karen, [18:14] tanong ko lang. [18:15] Kung totoo ang sinasabi, [18:17] eh bakit namimili [18:18] kung sino pwede magtanong? [18:19] At bakit pinipili [18:20] kung saang forum lamang? [18:22] Di ba? [18:23] Eh kung assume [18:23] attorney Dino, [18:25] kasi sabi mo, [18:25] ang palagay mo, [18:27] baka yung iba rin dito [18:28] talaga ay naging [18:29] bodyguards ni Zaldico. [18:31] Correct. [18:31] At meron ding mga [18:32] may meeting before [18:33] or perhaps baka [18:35] may mga na-deliver before [18:36] but like you said, [18:38] pinipili kanino [18:39] sinong pagbibintangan [18:41] at kung ano yung magiging narrative. [18:43] But if there is some value [18:44] to that, [18:45] meron bang magagamit [18:46] sa testimony nila [18:47] so that we can really find out? [18:49] I think for the public, [18:50] yun yung talagang hinahanap. [18:52] That's why they were [18:53] welcoming this din eh. [18:54] Kasi di ba yung parang [18:55] liability for [18:56] the big fish [18:57] or sino talaga [18:58] yung masterminds [18:59] or yung talagang [19:00] nakinabang? [19:01] Gusto natin malaman. [19:02] So paano magagawa yun? [19:03] Tandaan natin na [19:04] ang strategy, [19:05] parte ng strategy nila ako [19:07] is to pollute [19:08] these 18 marines na [19:09] wala na to eh. [19:10] Useless na yung mga [19:11] testimonials. [19:12] So you're saying [19:12] parang yung doctrine sa law [19:14] na falseness in unus, [19:16] falseness in maximum, [19:16] the false in one. [19:17] Bilang abogado, [19:18] kung ako magpa-prosecute, [19:19] sila ilalagay ko, [19:20] natatakot ako ilagay eh. [19:21] I think they should do [19:22] what Lila de Lima did before [19:24] when she was [19:25] Secretary of Justice. [19:26] Si Napoles, [19:28] ang tanong daw, [19:29] ma'am, sino ma [19:29] gusto niyo isama ko? [19:31] Gulat siya. [19:31] So ibig sabihin, [19:33] hindi itong [19:33] mapagkakatiwala [19:33] ang witness. [19:34] So hindi na ginawang [19:35] state witness. [19:35] But usually it's a [19:36] practical question [19:36] for witnesses [19:37] because kung takot ka [19:39] na okay, [19:40] you're under an [19:40] administration, [19:42] gusto mo rin malaman [19:42] within which parameters [19:44] ako pwede magsalita [19:45] na hindi ako mapapahama. [19:46] Pero dapat yung [19:47] totoo sabihin mo. [19:48] So ako nga yung abogado, [19:49] hindi ko na ito [19:50] ipipresenta kasi [19:50] wala na itong mga kwenta. [19:52] Ang kailangan kong hanapin [19:53] is our other witnesses. [19:54] So if you would recall [19:55] dun sa scandal, [19:57] dun sa pork barrel scandal, [19:59] hindi na naging [20:00] state witness [20:00] si Napoles. [20:02] Ang naging state witness, [20:02] si Ben Hurluy, [20:04] kailangan rin na maghanap. [20:04] Who worked for Napoles [20:06] before, di ba? [20:07] Correct. [20:07] So kailangan mo maghanap [20:08] ng alternative witnesses [20:09] because you're endangering [20:10] the entire case theory [20:12] and the entire case [20:13] if you present them [20:14] because there's going [20:15] to be reasonable doubt. [20:16] So I'd rather not [20:17] include them. [20:18] I'd rather look [20:19] for other witnesses. [20:19] So if your question is, [20:21] should they still be [20:22] included as witnesses [20:23] to find out [20:24] the whole truth [20:25] and nothing but the truth? [20:26] No. [20:27] Because you will not [20:28] find out the whole truth [20:29] and nothing but the truth [20:30] with them. [20:31] In fact, [20:32] what they're going to do [20:32] is pollute the story [20:33] and then you will ruin [20:35] the entire prosecution. [20:36] So ako, [20:37] kung ako abogado, [20:38] kung ako ombudsman, [20:38] kung ako Department of Justice, [20:40] isama sila sa kaso [20:41] kasi totoo naman. [20:42] Kung sinasabi nilang [20:43] sila yung nagbigay ng pera, [20:44] sila yung nag-corrupt, [20:45] di ba? [20:45] Eh kasama sila dun [20:46] sa entire plunder. [20:47] Hindi ba kawawa naman? [20:48] Mukhang nagihirap sila [20:50] based on what we saw [20:52] sa condition nila ngayon. [20:54] Hindi kasi pwedeng kawawa [20:56] yung depensa [20:58] kung naging parte ka nito. [20:59] Anong grand scheme? [21:00] Ang kawawa yung taong bayan. [21:01] Yung ninakawan [21:02] at alam naman nilang [21:03] nakaw na pera [21:04] at pinag-aabot nila yung pera [21:05] at hindi ako naniniwala [21:06] hindi rin sila kumita. [21:08] Hindi ako naniniwala [21:09] hindi rin sila kumita [21:10] habang inaabot nila yung mga pera na yan. [21:12] You publicly stated [21:13] that you will file [21:14] usurpation of authority [21:16] charges against [21:17] Senators Pia Cayetano [21:18] and Sen. Rodante Marco Leta. [21:21] Are you still pushing through [21:22] with that plan? [21:22] Yes. Right now, [21:24] we are in the process [21:26] of finalizing the pleadings [21:27] and the complainants. [21:28] It's not just me. [21:29] I'm just mere counsel [21:30] for the group. [21:31] So usurpation of which authority? [21:33] Well, the authority [21:34] that they're posing, [21:36] number one, [21:37] the Senate President [21:37] is posing that he is [21:39] Senate President [21:39] and number two, [21:40] So kasama si [21:41] Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano. [21:43] Si Pia, [21:44] si Rodante Marco Leta [21:45] as Blue Ribbon Committee [21:47] and supposedly [21:48] subcommittee chairperson. [21:50] But they're not [21:50] the Blue Ribbon Committee anymore. [21:51] They are very much aware [21:53] that the position [21:55] has already been vacated. [21:57] In fact, [21:57] Lauren Legarda [21:58] has attended so many [21:59] sessions before [22:01] that the quorum [22:01] was declared 12. [22:03] So my question, [22:04] Attorney Dino, [22:06] I think for the [22:06] committees [22:07] to be vacated, [22:10] kung may quorum talaga [22:11] of 12, [22:11] that's acceptable [22:12] na legally, [22:14] marami na may consensus [22:16] na it could be vacated. [22:17] But can you vacate [22:19] the seat of the Senate [22:20] President [22:21] with also 12? [22:23] Considerin kailangan mong [22:24] 13 to elect? [22:25] For so long [22:26] as there's a quorum, [22:27] there's nothing [22:28] in the Constitution [22:29] that states [22:29] you need 13 to remove. [22:31] It says [22:31] you need 13 to elect. [22:33] Pero ito [22:34] ang lagi ko sinasabi, [22:35] di ba, [22:35] alam naman natin, [22:36] the Senate [22:36] is a continuing body. [22:37] That was envisioned [22:38] by the Constitution [22:39] na hindi tayo [22:40] mawawalan ng Senado. [22:41] So that's the reason why, [22:42] that's the rationale [22:43] behind Avellino [22:43] versus Cuenco too, [22:44] na hindi na makakapagtansak [22:46] ng business yung Senado. [22:48] So dapat, [22:49] within the coercive powers, [22:50] coercive jurisdiction [22:51] of the Senate [22:52] for you to be counted [22:53] in the quorum. [22:54] So 12 is the constitutional, [22:56] tapos na itong [22:57] galtong-galtong usapan, [22:57] sa same facts eh, [22:59] the constitutional majority [23:00] ang pinag-usapan. [23:01] So you can vacate [23:02] all posts with the quorum. [23:04] So let's say, [23:04] we all concede [23:05] na 12 is the quorum [23:06] during that day [23:08] of June 3. [23:09] So vacated na lahat. [23:10] Vacated lahat. [23:11] So wala tayong [23:11] Senate President. [23:13] Oh, they cannot elect [23:14] a new Senate President. [23:15] So for the sake [23:16] of the Senate leadership, [23:18] should 13 Senators [23:19] go out now [23:20] and just vote [23:21] for a Senate President? [23:23] I'm hoping, no? [23:24] I'm hoping that they can [23:25] go beyond politics [23:26] and make sure [23:27] that the institution [23:27] will be working. [23:29] Medyo ano talaga eh, [23:30] unfortunate yung ginagawa [23:32] ni Alan Peter na [23:33] he's pretending [23:34] to be Senate President. [23:35] Sabi ko nga eh, [23:36] if you're still, [23:37] if you think you're [23:37] Senate President, [23:38] then bring the Turkey [23:39] into the floor. [23:40] But if you have 10, [23:42] how can that be [23:42] more than 12? [23:43] So it is impossible [23:44] that you have the majority, [23:46] whether constitutional [23:46] quorum, [23:49] constitutional majority [23:50] or not. [23:50] Diba? [23:51] Whether, [23:52] hindi mo pa [23:52] poproduce ni Alan Peter [23:53] the only right thing [23:54] for him to do [23:55] is to step down [23:56] and let the body decide [23:59] when they have [23:59] a quorum. [24:01] And let 13 vote [24:03] for a new Senate. [24:04] 13 or more. [24:05] And the acting president. [24:06] Acting president. [24:07] Senate president. [24:08] Acting Senate president. [24:08] And the attorney Dino, [24:10] meron mga concern na, [24:11] kasi may usap-usapan [24:12] na meron daw [24:13] mga lilipat [24:14] from the Cayetano block [24:16] to the Gatchalian block. [24:18] Pero baka yung mga [24:18] lumipat daw, [24:19] yun yung mga may kaso. [24:21] So how do we address, [24:22] because you're also [24:23] an advocate [24:23] by being part of Team Pinas, [24:25] how do you address [24:26] concerns na [24:27] yung mga lilipat [24:29] from the Cayetano block [24:30] to the Gatchalian block [24:31] ay gagawin yun [24:32] in exchange of [24:33] not facing charges [24:35] anymore [24:36] dun sa flood control [24:37] controversy? [24:38] Well, Team Pinas magbabantay. [24:39] Meron kami ni-launch [24:39] na bantay Senado. [24:40] Hindi pwedeng ganyan yung... [24:42] I'm not naive [24:43] na walang mga horse trading [24:45] that's happening [24:45] behind the scenes. [24:46] But the only thing [24:47] that we can do as citizens [24:48] is to prevent that [24:49] from completely happening. [24:50] And we will watch, [24:51] we will be watching [24:52] those cases, no? [24:54] Whatever the motivation [24:55] would be, [24:56] and ako, [24:56] sigurado ako may lilipat. [24:58] Sigurado ako may lilipat, [24:59] di ba? [24:59] At sigurado ako may kapalit. [25:01] Oo, at sigurado ako [25:02] may kapalit. [25:03] Pero hindi ibig sabihin nun [25:04] freely. [25:05] Hindi na talaga sila [25:05] ma-hold accountable, no? [25:07] We are watching [25:08] and we will be filing [25:09] the cases. [25:10] And kung makipag-horse trade sila [25:12] kahit sa Malacanang payan, [25:14] eh hindi naman forever [25:17] mape-prevention [25:17] of filing the case, di ba? [25:20] Temporarily, siguro. [25:21] So you will be there [25:22] to file cases as necessary. [25:24] If the evidence is there, [25:25] Attorney Karen, [25:26] we are duty-bound [25:27] to make our justice system work. [25:28] And we are duty-bound [25:29] as citizens to make sure [25:31] that there will be [25:32] accountability in our country. [25:34] Yes, there might be [25:35] horse trading, [25:35] pero ultimately, [25:38] make sure muna natin [25:40] na nagpa-function yung Senate [25:41] at hindi pwedeng may huwad [25:42] na Senate presidency. [25:43] Hindi talaga pwede yun. [25:45] So I think malapit na, no? [25:47] Alam ko nga, [25:47] meron na silang 13. [25:49] Ang question na lang [25:50] is magkakaroon ba [25:50] ng special session? [25:52] I think there should be [25:52] a special session [25:53] called by the President [25:54] kasi ang dami mga [25:55] nakabinbin na mga batas, [25:56] ang dami nakabinbin na work, [25:57] hindi na ako-confirm [25:59] yung commission on appointments [26:00] at nagka-lindol. [26:02] So I think there has to be [26:03] some sort of special session [26:05] to pass special measures [26:06] to respond to [26:08] what happened in Mindanao, no? [26:10] So may justification naman [26:11] behind the special session. [26:11] And last question, [26:12] totoo ba ang balita? [26:13] Or chismes na? [26:14] O may mga disbarment [26:16] ka ipa-file [26:17] against Senators [26:18] Pia Cayetano [26:19] in Rodante Marcoleta? [26:20] Oh, well, [26:21] alam naman natin [26:22] that we cannot announce that, no? [26:24] Pero rest assured [26:25] that we're gonna do [26:25] the right thing [26:26] and we're only gonna [26:26] file appropriate cases. [26:28] We're not here, no? [26:29] And it's not our style. [26:31] Never been our style. [26:32] Never been our reputation [26:33] to file frivolous cases. [26:35] Now, we file cases [26:36] based on evidence, [26:37] based on what is appropriate, [26:38] and based on what is right. [26:40] Thank you so much, [26:40] Attorney Dino De Leon. [26:43] As the Senate's [26:44] flood control probe [26:45] moves forward, [26:46] the challenge remains the same, [26:47] to separate fact from fiction [26:49] and ensure that accountability [26:51] is based on verified evidence, [26:54] not mere accusations. [26:56] Be informed, [26:57] be insightful of the news. [26:58] I'm Attorney Karen Jimeno. [26:59] Always stay at the forefront. [27:18] Wherever the story breaks, [27:20] BNC is there. [27:22] From conflict zones to...