Sean Webb - How Artificial Intelligence Will Manipulate The World — SRS #62

[00:00:00] Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Sean Ryan Show. This week is a fascinating episode. We talk about two different topics and then we tie them in. First topic is all about human consciousness. Second topic is all about artificial intelligence and why we're covering these two topics. We're tying them together because we are talking about how artificial intelligence is going to manipulate the entire human population through the algorithm of human emotion. Pretty fascinating stuff and scary. There's good news at the end of this though. So, you know, some of these can get kind of heavy. On another note, we have noticed a lot of you are repurposing our content, creating your own content from these episodes. We love it. We thought we'd make it super easy on you. So if you go below in the description, we have a folder down below that has all kinds of raw reels that we've cut for you guys. So you can take them, create whatever you want with it. All we ask is that you tag Sean Ryan Show in your content. You can monetize it, make money off it, whatever you want to do. Just link back to the show. And guess what? If we like it, we'll repost it on our own social media channels. So there's that. Once again, that link's below. Ladies and gentlemen, please like, comment, subscribe to the YouTube channel, head over to Spotify and Apple Podcasts, leave us a review, tell us how we're doing. And ladies and gentlemen, without further ado, please welcome Sean Webb from the Monroe Institute to the Sean Ryan Show. [00:02:11] Sean Webb: Thank you. [00:02:41] Speaker 1: Sean Webb, welcome to the show, man. Thank you, sir. It's a pleasure to be here. Sean Webb, welcome to the Sean Ryan show. I know, right? First Sean I've interviewed. That's cool. So, but man, we've been going back and forth for, I think you, we first had contact back in 2020, I believe. Yeah. And we've been going back and forth for a while and, man, we had a very fascinating phone conversation and last night you just blew my mind at dinner. And man, I've been looking forward to this interview. I'm really excited to talk to you about all this stuff. Human consciousness, the Monroe Institute. Yeah. AI. This is going to be a hell of an episode. [00:03:37] Speaker 2: Yeah, it's going to be fun. You know, it kind of blew my mind when we were talking a few weeks ago about like something else. And you're like, you know, what's going on with your work? And, you know, we talked about how my mind stuff was bleeding into artificial emotional intelligence. And then all of a sudden, like a week ago, all these headlines came out, like Elon Musk stopping his schedule to go fly to Congress to implore them to pause or put regulations on AI development. And the heads of state and AI development, like the head tech people are all like, maybe we need to put a pause on this for a little while. And then like a few days ago, the top Google engineer for AI resigned in fear. And that's like not hyperbole. That's like the headline. Like he admits that he left Google because of the fear of what he helped create and that he wants to get away from Google and start talking about the dangers of AI and that he regrets working on it for the last 10 years. It's like, holy shit, we need to talk about this. Yeah. [00:04:34] Speaker 1: No kidding. Yeah, it's very concerning. I don't think, I don't even have a, I have a small fraction of how this is going to affect us, but I think that this makes humans completely irrelevant in a lot of different sectors in today. [00:04:58] Speaker 2: Well, it's certainly going to affect everybody listening to this. Like everyone who is in earshot of this conversation is going to be affected by it. But the good news is there's a way that we can talk about it and have everybody understand what's going on here. And we can explain it from the very simplistic nature of what AI is all about. And we'll take all the uncertainty out of the fear. There are certainly some things that we need to be concerned about moving into the future. But we can explain it like within the guise of this show, everybody will have an amazing understanding of where this is going, why people are concerned about it, what we can do about it to protect ourselves as individuals and human beings from the effects that this stuff may have on us in the future. And maybe a way out to make sure that, you know, an artificial general intelligence doesn't take over the show and start running the world and we'll never have control again. Because that's, there's a small potential for that to actually occur. That's not science fiction. That's like- Is that really small? Well- I feel like it's a lot more eminent than- Everybody's freaking out about it. But I think, like I've been in this space, like I've been talking about the dangers of where we're going for like the last 10 years. And now just now Yuval Harari, who's one of those guys up there who has the credibility and all that stuff is starting to say the same thing as that I've been saying for a long time. And we're getting to the point where everybody's starting to understand and get their mind wrapped around where this is going to go, how fast it's going to go, what the particular dangers are of artificial intelligence to influence human behavior, which is the real danger. Because when it comes down to it, our minds are very hackable and I'll explain a little bit of that so that people can, like everybody be like, my mind's not hackable. It absolutely is. Everyone can be influenced and a computer system and artificial intelligence is on the cusp of figuring out how to do that. That's what we need to protect ourselves against. Because at that point, you're talking about the ability of an artificial intelligence being able to use simulated like real fake videos and real fake audio to simulate that they're a human being and sign you up for a special task force or whatever it is, start depositing money in your bank so that you think you're working for the good guys and all of a sudden, you're working for an artificial intelligence that's arming you, equipping you, funding you, and it has an army, a human army to defend its artificial intelligence goals. That's where we're at. ED HARRISON: Wow. That scares the shit out of me. ED HARRISON: Yeah. And it's no bullshit. I will explain from soup to nuts like hopefully in this episode how, first of all, the human mind can be hacked, which is a cool thing because then everybody will be able to hack their own minds, which is awesome. There's a cool, really awesome side effect to be able to take that and then make your life amazing from it. But then from there, it's a really short leap to say, okay, so here's how you can do it. But then here's how an artificial intelligence is going to identify those same patterns and be able to do it if you're not up to speed on how to hack your own mind. It'll be doing it for you. [00:08:00] Speaker 1: ED HARRISON: I mean, you don't have to answer this yet because I know we're going to go into it in the episode. But you had brought up for all the people that, oh, my mind can't be hacked. There's probably at least 50% of the people listening right now are saying that in their own head. ED HARRISON: Yeah, wait till the first half of the show. ED HARRISON: To me, the first thing that comes to my mind is for those people that are like, oh, I'm unhackable. Every time you experience a strong emotion such as anger, jealousy, all these things, would you say that, I mean, I feel like that's your mind being hacked? [00:08:40] Speaker 2: ED HARRISON: Yeah, to a point. ED HARRISON: You're being influenced. ED HARRISON: I mean, human emotions are the primary driving mechanism for us to take action. I mean, from a certain standpoint, you can break down the physiology and the process within your mind and lay it all out on a piece of paper. And you can actually draw it and you can draw the custom variables that make you an individual compared to all the other 800 billion people on the planet. But there's a process that is static within the physiology of a human that takes that custom information but runs it through the same exact process that everybody else uses. Now, if you start to identify what things are on this self map, we'll talk about it, but what those things are for an individual, then the other side of the equation is your perception and appraisal of what's going on in your mind and what you think about it, how you feel about it, etc. But that results in your emotional output. ED HARRISON: And so if you can put perceptions false or otherwise or targeted into a person's perception where you know what they care about and how they're going to react to things, you can put information in there that results in an emotional reaction that will drive them into action potentially at a particular time window to a particular location with a particular emotional mix. And all of a sudden, you're communicating and controlling human beings either individually or en masse based on like they could send information to you to get you to a certain location. They can send me different information that's pertinent to me that'll get me to the same location. Then all of a sudden, you got a drone strike or you're being arrested or whatever it is. And it used custom information based on who you and I are as individuals, but it got us to the same location or do the same action or the same end result, right? Like we're selling a stock or buying a stock or liquidating all of our funds or going to a certain location or taking a certain action. That's what we're talking about here is the ability to influence people on a scale of up to the number of cell phones on the planet where you can literally deliver information to a person's pocket in their face at a granularity of understanding what each individual needs to see, hear, feel to get them to take the action that you want them to take on an automated basis, 24/7, 365, no need for lunch breaks, and no need for pay. [00:11:03] Speaker 1: This is fascinating stuff. Let me give you a proper introduction before we dive in too deep, because I'm dying to dig in. So, Sean Webb, you're a U.S. Navy veteran. What did you do in the Navy? Were you in the intelligence? [00:11:17] Speaker 2: No, I was kind of. I mean, I was tertiary. I was working with surveillance technologies and stuff that's still classified, but I was kind of a tech geek. [00:11:27] Speaker 1: Okay, we won't go into that. You're an expert on the human mind and human emotion. You started your civilian career as a systems engineer in supercomputing. You built a career in high tech. You had a startup at the Advanced Technologies Development Center at Georgia Tech. You are now a speaker. You've spoken to some very powerful pioneers in a lot of different spaces, one of which I believe, did you say they won the Nobel Peace Prize last year? [00:12:03] Speaker 2: Well, I've had conversations with those folks. I've had multiple conversations with two Nobel winners, but I didn't officially present formally in front of them. But yeah, there's some stuff that I put out there that they're really interested in talking about. [00:12:18] Speaker 1: You have some very important people that are paying very close attention to you. And that, I mean, that says a lot in itself. You're also an author. You've written a few books, one coming out soon. What is that book titled? It's going to be The Human Mind Owner's Manual. [00:12:36] Speaker 2: When is that coming out? Man, I'm hoping by the end of this year, it's like regular life keeps getting in the way of me finishing this thing. But yeah, I'm hoping by the end of the year. [00:12:46] Speaker 1: You're an official ambassador to the Monroe Institute. For those of you that do not know what the Monroe Institute is, I'm going to totally butcher this, but I will say this. The Central Intelligence Agency and the Monroe Institute have done a multitude of studies together on remote viewing. Do you want to go into a little bit more about the Monroe Institute? [00:13:08] Speaker 2: Yeah, sure. I mean, I think it's the most premier research center for consciousness expansion on the East Coast of the United States most definitely. It's a place where, like you said, the history behind it was they sent the early remote viewers for the CIA and other military intelligence to that location to be able to utilize technology that assisted them in making better target viewings and also faster recoveries. And so for a number of years, that was the place where remote viewers got trained for CIA and other military applications for the US government. And that was classified for the longest time, you couldn't even talk about it. And still to this day, they'll deny that they use remote viewers. But you know, the writings on the wall of, you know, Lou Elizondo has admitted he was connected with remote viewing and, you know, he's brand new on the scene of, you know, running a tip and for the Pentagon, the UFO stuff, like he was one of those guys. It's like, well, you guys are denying that this existed, yet here's another guy who's in the mix. Aren't the studies a release though? Yeah, there's a lot of stuff that got released. And they put out a documentary about remote viewing that was called Third Eye Spies. And that was with Russell Targ, who partnered with Hal Puthoff, to put that whole program together for the government, to put some science behind it because they really needed a good program to be able to say, okay, we're going to do this double blind. We're going to make sure that there's no interference. We want to make sure that the data that we're giving through these remote viewings is accurate, that it's useful. And so he got a lot of stuff declassified so that he could talk about it. And then they turned it into that documentary. And that's how I got tuned into the idea of Joe McMoneagle, who's a teacher of the remote viewing program at Monroe Institute and who has just a storied existence of successes in remote viewing for the military and special operations forces and national security council. And they gave him the legion of merit regarding his ability to sit in his house in Virginia and tell you what's what's going on inside a Russian facility underground somewhere in the tundra of Northern Russia. [00:15:26] Speaker 1: And he was right. This stuff is, I mean, this stuff is incredible. Yeah. You know, it's, it's, it's, it's the kind of stuff that people, they can't wrap their head around it. And it's all coming out now that everything you thought was bullshit is turning out to be 100% real. And our own government is utilizing this stuff and has been for decades. Yeah. Um, but we're going to do, we're going to do an entirely separate episode on remote viewing in the Monroe Institute. Um, you also are a coach of mind mastery and emotional intelligence for corporate executives. You have 1.5 million subscribers on Tik TOK. What is your handle on Tik TOK? Um, it's mind hacking happiness, mind hacking happiness. Go check them out on Tik TOK. And you're working to forward the development of artificial compassion for computer systems, which might just save us from the runaway AI. Let's hope. So we've got a lot to dive into. Yeah. Before we dive into it. [00:16:39] Speaker 2: Oh, nice. I got the gummy bears. Holy cow. Hold on. How do you know? Cause the other guests watch the show. Yeah, I do. I love these episodes, man. You're killing it by the way. I got you again. Oh, thank you. So I made that up for me and my wife like barely lets me wear it, but that's, um, I thought that fit for you too. [00:17:02] Speaker 1: I could use this. I could definitely use this. Thank you. Yeah. I can love you without reacting to your mental nonsense. Yeah. I got to work on that. My, uh, my wife made me change the word to nonsense. Oh man. Well, thank you. I appreciate it. Yeah. And, uh, just so you know, those gummy bears are legal in all 50 states. You can drive anywhere with them, fly anywhere with them and, uh, not worry about getting arrested. Awesome. Although the other kinds are, you know, that those are fun too. Yeah. But, um, well, Sean, how did you go from this high tech job? You're in a fortune 100 company making a lot of money and you pretty much gave that all up to study human consciousness. Yeah. [00:18:00] Speaker 2: How did that happen? Well, um, it was in that world of being in high tech that, you know, I got a lot of success early on and I was making a bunch of money and I was a single dude, you know, uh, pretty girlfriend, great friends. Like my life was full of the right answers. And so I just purchased a house on a double lot in Atlanta at the age of 27 by myself, no co-signers, like just, you know, balling. And I'd filled it with, you know, a bunch of cool stuff and gloss black piano and, uh, all this, you know, weight set and all this stuff that I wanted when I was younger, cause I grew up in poverty. And then all of a sudden it turned out I was a little talented in tech and then the money just started flowing because, you know, I was working for a supercomputing company and, um, and it was just that they're million dollar computers. So when you sell some of those things and you work on them, you get paid a lot of money. And, um, like some point we'll have to talk about how it's shipping computers area 51. That was a cool little job. But, um, I was in on the front porch of this house and I was looking out across the extra lot that I had and I was like, okay, so I've got all this stuff and I got friends coming over again. I'm waiting for the installers for the stereo system that are coming to put the stuff in. So we can have this big party at my house and I'm like, all right, well, so what's next? And something about that, cause I was thinking about maybe putting a gazebo or something out in the side yard or whatever and wiring it up for sound. But that was what I was thinking about. And I was like, wait a second, hold on. I went from food stamps and living in a little two bedroom, one bath house in rural Indiana. And 10 years later, where, you know, as poor as shit, I'm on the other side of the coin, making good income, success from, you know, American dream perspective. It's like, I got everything. There's no wrong answer. It's like, I'm not unfulfilled. I have a feel like I have a good relationship with God. You know, there's like, there's nothing really missing for me. Yet here I am with all the things that I was ever told that I should have for happiness. And I'm already looking for what's next. And something in my mind clicked. It's like, wait a second, you're not, you're not happy with all of this stuff. It's like, where's the finish line going to be? Like, what is it going to be that finally says, okay, I'm, I'm good. I'm done. And I started to analyze it. And then I started to read a little bit about, you know, psychology and whatnot. And, uh, it was like, there's going to be no stopping point. There's this thing called a hedonic treadmill where, and it's a part of the immune or excuse me, the part of the nervous system, not the immune system, but the nervous system where like your nervous system reports the differences and things like you smell as a scent for the first 10 minutes. And then all of a sudden you don't smell it anymore because let's say you wake up in the middle of the night and the gas is on and you smell it. Well, it woke you up because it went from low to high and it alerted you and said, okay, there's a big difference in the gas smell. But then after 10 minutes, it goes from high to high and it stops reporting on the difference of things. Right. And you got to get out of the house. That's why the fireman say, get out of the house. If you smell gas, because you won't smell for very long, but it'll kill you because your nervous system only measures the differences in things. And so in reality, what that does to our life is when we start making financial accumulation and the brand new car is really cool for the first few months that you're driving it. And then all of a sudden it gets to be old hat. That's your nervous system normalizing to the things that you've attained already in life. And then you start looking for the, well, what's the difference? How can I get more? And that never stops. And that's why these billionaires are always looking to pile more money on top, more success, more businesses, more accolades, right? Oh, I'm not the richest man in the world yet. Let's do that. Right. And there's chasing, they're chasing, they're chasing because the nervous system always normalizes to what you have. And so that's what was going on in my mind that I was just learning about. It was like, I've got all this stuff, what's next? And I was like, if I, if I, if I follow this pattern, I'm going to be chasing that my whole life. [00:22:23] Speaker 1: That's interesting. You say that I am coming to that. I've, I've come to that realization that it's all just shit. Yeah. It is all just shit. Yeah. You know? And, uh, I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's greed. Yeah. Most definitely it's greed. So I started looking for [00:22:51] Speaker 2: more. I was like, okay, what, what is it that I'm missing about my internal sense of who I am and what I want in life, et cetera. And I started to do some reading on, um, global religions, trying to figure out, is there something I missed in my religion that maybe, you know, there's some other answers that I need to, or what could be commonalities, um, that are, uh, could be brought into my existence that could maybe illuminate me into something else that I need to be doing, et cetera. And I found some patterns of commonalities and religion. It was a really interesting, but then I read a book on T T Suzuki's introduction to Zen and I learned about meditation, which was a foreign idea to me at the time. Cause you know, I grew up Christian and I went to church as president of the youth group for four years, you know, I was like in it. And at that point I started to understand that there was this thing called Satori and I didn't know what that was. It's just a word for their explanation about a moment of perfection that allows you to understand absolutely everything. [00:23:59] Speaker 1: I want to tell you all about this new meat delivery service I found called Moink. What I really, really like about Moink is they are from a small rural farm town in Missouri, LaBelle, Missouri, right by where I grew up. And I love supporting small town business USA. Now, when I started looking into Moink, they educated me on the meat industry and I want to share with you all a couple of facts, according to Moink Magazine. 60% of all pork is produced by one company in the U.S. and that is 100% owned by the Chinese. Four companies control over 80% of the meat industry in the United States. More than 10,000 different additives are allowed in the U.S. food supply. 99% of chicken, 95% of hogs. 78% of cattle in the U.S. are raised in confinement buildings or feedlots. Means they're not moving around freely. 80% of the antibiotics consumed in the U.S. are fed to animals. Here's a stat. In 2016, 18.4 million pounds of antibiotics were sold for livestock. And that's what you're eating. Suicide rates amongst farmers are the highest than any other profession. And that includes veterans, believe it or not. I found that alarming. Now here's what Moink is doing to combat some of this stuff, which I really appreciate. Their livestock is 100% born and raised and harvested humanely in the United States of America. Their farms practice regenerative agricultural methods. They are free of GMOs, antibiotics, and all hormones. Their Alaska salmon is wild-caught. Their beef and lamb are grass-fed and grass-finished. Their boxes ship from rural America, right in small town Missouri. Love it. Their chicken and pork are pasture-raised. So guys, check them out. Moink. Keep America farming going by signing up at moinkbox.com/srs. Right now, listeners on this show, get free bacon in your first box. It will be the best bacon you will ever taste, but it's only for a limited time. It's spelled moink box.com/srs. And I'm like, well, what's that all about? Interesting. I'm looking for answers, so maybe- [00:26:44] Speaker 2: Satori? Satori, yeah. And so I started meditating and I was horrible at it because I didn't know what it was. I'd look it up and try to read about it and whatnot. And then I started to read articles on websites and stuff. I'm like, well, this actually tracks back into the Christianity that I know because Jesus meditated. It says right so in the Bible, you know, 40 days out in the desert. And so I was like, all right, well, I'll try it. And so I started meditating. I started calming my mind. And then I started reading more about Zen, which to me is more of a philosophy of mind mastery than anything. And I worked on using the 800-pound gorilla of my mind to tame the 800-pound gorilla of my mind because from a practical perspective, they just want to cease all conscious thought and then find out what happens next. And so that's what I focused on. I was like, I want to shut my mind completely down. I want to hear nothing but silence and then see what I can hear from there. And there's a crazy thing that happened that I'm, for the last 20 years, I've been trying to figure out what the physiology and the sciences behind it. But a different experience of consciousness arose within me when I got to a point of complete quietude. And it blew my mind. It was so dramatic and life-changing and such a weird experience that I literally thought I was dying. Like I zipped out of my body into the center of the universe and all of a sudden understood absolutely everything about how this whole universe works. And the crazy experience that came from shutting down conscious thought in my mind reset absolutely everything within me and brought me a ton of information that I didn't have like the day before. And so some of the stuff that I got out of it, and I talk about that experience in the blue book that I wrote volume two of mind hacking happiness. So if you're interested in pick that up or whatever, but the information that I brought back from that was real valid information on how the human mind works, how we create our own pain and suffering, like the process that we go through to create our pain and suffering. And I put it into a theory and I was just another guy with a theory on, you know, how here's how your pain and suffering works. But I put it into a very specific logical process flow of values and groupings of things and the process that your mind follows to create your bullshit. And I call it your mental bullshit. And then between 2007 and 2013, all the science came out, the peer-reviewed published major journal science that proved every bit of what I had come back with. Correct? No kidding. Yeah. And so then I was like, okay, so now this raises a whole bunch of other questions in my mind because besides having a practical understanding of, you know, how you create your own pain and suffering and bullshit and how you can turn it down, et cetera. Now science has proven that's correct. Okay. So now a whole new set of questions comes like, where did that come from? Like what information did I tap into that allowed me who, a guy who has, you know, a psychology one-on-one course in his past from a community college at some point to come with a model that can explain the human mind and how it [00:30:12] Speaker 1: works? Well, before we, before we move into the next set of questions, I have two questions. I want to say them out loud because I'll forget, but, um, one, how long did it take you to get into that type of meditation? How long did it take you? So I'd like to talk about that. Two, what was the initial [00:30:30] Speaker 2: download? So let's start with one. Okay. So one, it wasn't very long, um, because I just went at it. In fact, it was less than two months that I started meditating that this weird thing occurred and then I like zipped out of my body and went off into the middle of the universe and understood everything. And then, uh, when I was coming back, I was losing a lot of it. I was losing all the stuff, all the stuff that I understood. I was like coming back into my existence. In fact, one of the portions of the existence was, okay, time to go back. And I was like, what do you mean go back? I was like, I don't want to go back. What are you talking about? And then it was like, you're going back. And I was like, oh, okay. So maybe, you know, reincarnation is real. I'm going to go back and be a human baby, whatever it was. Um, and then I realized I was coming back to my body, my existence. And I was like, well, that sucks. I mean, come on, really? You know, I'm here in the middle of everything and I understand everything. And I got to be one with the whole universe and yada, and you're putting me back in this shit, you know, and it's, uh, but then, you know, I started losing a lot of stuff and I was like, no, wait, wait, wait, I don't want to lose everything. You can't just show this to me and not like, you know, get, allow me to help folks. And it was, the feeling that I got was like, well, what do you want? And I was like, well, I want to, let's knock out this pain and suffering thing. Let's knock out, you know, the, the human limitation of being controlled by fear and controlled by anger and controlled by sadness and all the things that like limit our existence and stop us from being, you know, joyful and happy all the time. And, uh, the, the kind of feeling, the message I got back was like, yeah, okay, so you aren't the first, you know, and that was kind of a joke, kind of a poke at, you know, a lot of the other masters dipped into the same thing and look what they did. I'm like, okay, well, I'll give it a shot anyway, you know, let's see what happens. And so it was just within a few couple months though, a couple of months you were able to tap [00:32:23] Speaker 1: in. Yeah. I've been meditating off and on for, I started after my first psychedelic experience, to be honest with you. Yeah. And that was roughly a year and three months ago. Yeah. And I felt the oneness one time. Yeah. And that was meditating outside, uh, in nature. I, I have, I'm just going to tell you what I do, you know, and maybe you can critique me because, because I want to go to the center of the universe. I know, right. Uh, in meditation. So I, I put headphones on. I listen to frequency music, like the stuff we were listening, uh, when we were, when we were setting up the photo shoot and everything for the, for this episode, I do that. And then have you ever heard of a Reif machine? Yeah. So I know you're very familiar with frequency. So I put a Reif machine on and, uh, I put it on my feet. Sometimes I put it on my hands. Sometimes I put it on both. So basically for those listening who don't know what a Reif machine is, a Reif machine sends a series of frequencies through your body. And, uh, it's kind of holistic medicine and you probably [00:33:40] Speaker 2: know a lot more about this than I do. I just got a Royal delivered to my house, the Royal Reif machine. [00:33:45] Speaker 1: Really? Yeah. So from what I understand, the Reif machine, it does all kinds of good things for you, but it, it, um, it can break up bacteria, can break up viruses. They say it can break up cancers, um, cancer cells. And, and, and, and from what I understand, it's also very grounding. It, it puts you at the, at the right frequency that we're supposed to be operating at. I even put a grounding sheet [00:34:13] Speaker 2: on my bed. Wow. Do you know what a grounding sheet is? Yeah, totally. I tried to buy one. I got one off of Amazon and it wasn't really doing a whole lot. And I tested it with a multimeter. It wasn't even connected. Like they were selling a sham. Like they, you know, I, I believe in the science because I've read the reports and read the studies. Like that's real science, real stuff that'll help you. But the stuff they sell on Amazon doesn't like the ground doesn't have a connection to the mat. Oh, great. Yeah. Well, I've been looking for a new one now. [00:34:42] Speaker 1: But, um, but, um, yeah, you know, so that's, that's, and then I sit in a, I have a bad back. So I sit in a love sack, like a big beanbag chair and, uh, just try to totally relax. Sometimes I can get far and get in the way I do it is I just, when I meditate, I kind of let, um, how do I explain this? I'm not the greatest at controlling my thoughts. Yeah. And so how I do it is I try to let every thought in my head play out. And sometimes this could take hours. Yeah. Most of the time I don't have hours. Okay. You know, I'll do it for, I, if I get a 45 minute one in, I feel like I've accomplished something. Yeah. Even if I haven't accomplished anything and I just sat by myself for 45 minutes, I feel good about it. But every once in a while, all the thoughts, it's like every thought will play through my head. Yeah. And I'll get to the point where I'm thinking about nothing. And then I realize I'm thinking about nothing and I, and I snap out of it and I don't know how long I was actually thinking about nothing. So the way I'd like to describe it is if you're looking down, picture your thoughts like clouds. Right. And the clouds pass by and then another thought comes in your head. Yeah. And it's, you know, it's good stuff. It's things that are bothering you. It's things that I have to do today, things that I have to do next week. And, and, and guilt and all these different emotions and thoughts are just going through my head. And, and every once in a while, every thought goes through my head, everything plays out and it's 100% calmness. Yeah. But I don't know how long I'm in that calmness or I'm in that, in that state. Yeah. In that state, the, there's a [00:36:43] Speaker 2: separation of time, right? Where time just kind of doesn't become a thing anymore. What you just perfectly explained well done, by the way, is a meditative state of Vipassana. And so there's a word for it. It comes from like this ancient Buddhist practice where you simply just observe your thoughts, but you don't add anything to them. Like your thoughts come in, but you don't really interact with them. You just kind of let them do their thing. And like you said, the cloud floating by and then it floats out and then you're just waiting for the quiet. And that's, from my perspective, that's your subconscious, trying to raise things for your awareness. And we'll get into, you know, how your brain is your organ of survival. It starts throwing things up that says, you know, should we pay attention to this? Should we pay attention to this? And your non-reaction to that proves two cool things. One, that you're not your mind, but you can observe your mind, which means there always needs to be a space between an observer and the observed. So you're proving to yourself that your own consciousness isn't the product of your mind, which is a really cool thing to notice. But then the other thing is, can you say that again? That your, your, your consciousness is separate from your mind. Like if you can observe your mind from your consciousness, you're proving to yourself that it's not the same thing. That the observer that's sitting in the chair, watching your mind, isn't your mind. Because a tooth can't touch itself or can't bite itself. A fingertip can't touch itself. An eyeball can't see itself without some distance in a mirror. There needs to be a space between the observer and the observed. And so at any point that you're observing your mind, you're proving to yourself, you aren't your mind. Your mind is something that's doing, that's working for you, certainly in assistance of, of your existence, of your physiology. But your consciousness is something different. And when you dig into that, that's your true essence. It's not your mind and the things that are happening in your mind and the emotions that are arising and all this other stuff. That's a process of your physiology. You're the thing inside working your physiology, driving your physiology, experiencing this human existence. But you're not this thing and the operation of your mind if you can see your mind. Because there has to be some distance between the observer and the observed. [00:39:03] Speaker 1: Wow. That's fascinating. Yeah. That's fascinating stuff. [00:39:12] Speaker 2: So what was your first download? So the first thing that I got was the last thing that I was basically was I lost everything, like the understanding of the whole universe and get, I like totally understood Satori at that point from a Zen perspective, right? And I don't think the Zen folks are right. I just think it was a practical method for them to get to the point that we naturally can find as humans, that we're designed to find that puts us in touch with everything. But the stuff that I grabbed on the way back when I knew I was coming back to be me and that I wanted to help teach people, I still had access to some stuff that I didn't have access to in my human life in the expanded consciousness realm. And I said, let me bring back the process of pain and suffering. Let me bring back how the human mind works so that we can explain it to folks so that they can start to take control of their mind, adjust the variables that they need to adjust to make their life amazing. And I got that stuff. And I put it in a couple of books that I then published and 96% of the folks who are finding it are rating them five stars and they're saying, this stuff changed my life. So I'm like, thank God I grabbed the right stuff on the way back. It's like there was so much information out there in the field that I could have tried to bring back and explain. And I grabbed just the right mix of stuff that I didn't know about, but that I figured out how to unpack over time and put into a couple of books and some whatever videos that I put out on the internet for free and all this other stuff. It's like, that's what I want to deliver. [00:40:45] Speaker 1: We'll link all that, your book and all your, everything will be linked below. [00:40:50] Speaker 2: Nice. Yeah. So I put that into the stuff that I try to communicate and it helps people take control of their mind and shows them the control knobs that they can take and change the things that'll change their whole emotional landscape for the rest of their life. Because if you think about it, emotions are the things that drive us like we talked about at the top, but it's also the things that can ruin our existence. Like it's the sadness and the fear and the anger and the worry and regret and all that stuff that permeates your mind because you're not taking control of your mind and adjusting the variables to turn that stuff down. Science shows us in fMRI studies that you can grab those variables and literally turn your brain on or off in certain areas to hack your mind, which is why I was, you know, the moniker of the book was mind hacking happiness. Like there's a way to take control of those variables and literally control the brain reactivity that creates the stuff that causes trials and troubles and tribulations, et cetera, but then can also free you from that whole process, which changes your life and then changes the lives of those around you. Because not only just your personal existence is better, which then affects all the cool people around you that you love and don't want to hurt, but then you start to bleed into them and your positivity and your control of understanding your own shit can be passed on to them. And like my kid is one of the most emotionally intelligent kids in his class and has no problem with a lot of the things that middle schoolers will have a problem with because he's got that presence of understanding how his mind works and he understands where his fear comes from. He understands what his frustrations are and he can turn them down at will at 13. [00:42:28] Speaker 1: Yeah. Wow. Wow. So how do you even begin to [00:42:34] Speaker 2: control this? Well, the cool thing is there's a hardwired hack in your mind that helps you control it for you. So the easiest way to explain this is, um, like when you go, your brain is your organ of survival. Okay. So it's there to help you figure out what's a danger and what's not. Okay. So when you walk by a coil on the ground, there's this thing called your limbic system and specifically your amygdala that'll look down, glance out of the corner of your eye and say, Oh my God, that's a snake. Right. And so the fear kicks into your amygdala and it starts dumping adrenaline into your system to prepare for fight or flight to get you away from the threat. Okay. So at the moment that you look down and you see that that coil on the ground is not a snake, but it's a hose. Okay. Your brain as your organ of survival has to have a way to turn off your negative ship immediately because the adrenaline dump and all the stuff that's happened a moment ago to prolong your survival is now going to limit your survival by wasting those resources that you would need to run away from a hose, which you don't. Right. But you may need those resources a hundred yards down the line when a bear walks out of the woods in front of you and you need that adrenaline. Right. So there needs to be a way for your thinking mind to turn off your, your negative reaction to that snake now hose. And so there's a, a specific circuit and we don't have to get deep in the weeds of neuroscience, but there's a specific circuit in the right ventral lateral prefrontal cortex and the medial prefrontal cortex that literally sends a signal back to your limbic system says, shut the fear off. We don't need it anymore. Stop the adrenaline dump and it reacts immediately and turns off the negative reactivity that your mind has going on at the moment because you don't need that fear. There's a way to hack that system. This happens subconsciously. Yeah. Subconsciously. It's helping your brain is there to help you, right? Your brain is there to do what you need it to do to help your survival. And that's why, you know, it'll change in form and function. Like you learn how to shoot a basketball and all of a sudden it becomes muscle memory. It's not really muscle memory. That's your brain saying, I'm going to take this over for a subconscious process to say, we're always going to hit that three. Right. You learn how to play piano. All of a sudden it becomes automatic where you just start the song and now you're just listening to it as your body's playing the notes. Right. That's, you do crossword puzzles. Your brain, your subconscious mind works those things quicker, starts to aligning this thought process to say, oh, I've seen that, that clue before. And you're filling out your crossword puzzle faster based on what intention that you've set for it. Well, over time, when you start managing your emotions, it'll start doing the same thing. And so if you're like a mess psychologically in life and you start to take control of your, of your emotional landscape over time, your mind makes you that, you know, zen master, walking around observing the world exploding around them and not really reacting to it, unless there's something directly needs to be done, you know, that's cool kind of place to be where, you know, life could be going to hell in a handbasket and yet you're calm and controlled and can make intelligent decisions based on the information that you have ahead of you. So this all came to you at, just with, in one meditation setting? Yeah. It was a hell of a, a hell of a meditation, but yeah. And that's what expanded consciousness is all about because this whole thing for me that like the experience itself felt like it was thousands to millions of years long. Like I learned that much stuff. Now I lost a lot of it coming back into the limited physiology that I have. Like we're really dumb as human beings. Like we totally overestimate our intelligence level compared to what there is to know. But yeah, when you dip into that space of expanding consciousness, and I've got theories about this. We can talk about this later, but you're dipping into like a non-local awareness that transcends, just like quantum mechanics does, transcend space and time. Like quantum mechanics is showing us that in that realm that creates space and time, it is beyond the effects of space and time. Like, you know, you can have backwards in time reactions in quantum mechanic experiments. Like nobody understands quantum mechanics. So I don't want to profess that I understand what's going on. But there are experiments that show that we can have reactivity backwards in time based on stuff that happens in the future. And they've proven this over and over and over and 100% of the experiments show that this is the way it works. Well, I think that there's also a non-local component to consciousness that does the same thing. That when you're in that pure conscious awareness space, you're beyond the space and time influence. And so you can experience things off into the distance in this consciousness expansion space, get a ton of information that you wouldn't have time to experience in the hour long meditation or however long you were gone. And then you come back and you've got all of this experience and all of this understanding that would [00:47:47] Speaker 1: have taken lifetimes to learn. Wow. It's crazy. We'll dive deeper into that in a future episode. Yeah. But so back to let's get into some of the stuff that we need to cover before we get into the AI manipulation. Yeah. And so let's go into how the brain works with consciousness, because I know you want to explain some of that. Yeah. So before we get into how AI is going to manipulate the entire human [00:48:21] Speaker 2: population. Yeah, because one of the things I was thinking is we covered like how to hack your own mind. And then it's a small jump to say, OK, here's how an artificial intelligence will hack your mind if you're not taking control of it. And this will be an amazing, cool little talent for anybody who's listening to be able to hack their own mind because you can literally take the variables that create who you are in your mind, adjust them and then take control of your whole emotional landscape, which is awesome. And then you'll understand when you're starting to take control of those things, how somebody else like news media or an external source of information or an artificial intelligence will try to do the same thing. And you'll be able to identify when somebody is trying to influence your control, you which are cool, which is kind of cool, give you a lot of freedom. But that story starts with back to the limbic system. It's your defense mechanism. It's always scanning your environment for threats. And so that's the portion of your brain that is like your survival structure. It says, is this person a threat? Is this car coming towards me a threat? Am I in this line? Is this animal a threat? But then a second question must be asked, a threat to what? And so that becomes the answer that the mind needs. Like it needs laundry list. It's just a logic device, right? Our brain is just a logic device of our central nervous system. And it needs a laundry list to define what it is that we need to defend. Like if we're giving a given a mission to say, defend this, okay, well, what is this? Right. And so that laundry list of stuff becomes our sense of self. And it's hardwired in that our body is right in the center of this map. It's called a self map, which is a kind of a, what's the word I'm looking for? A concept that was brought forth by Antonio Damasio is a very famous researcher who did a lot of work on self and the understanding of human psychology and why we do the things that we do. And so this self thing, our body's right in the center of it. So when we have a baseball flying at our heads, that's why we dodge out of the way subconsciously, we don't even have control. It just happens. Or like when a fly comes flying near our eye, we blink. That's our limbic system controlling the motion of our body to defend our sense of self, which our body's right in the middle of it. So when we have that adrenaline dump of, you know, seeing that wild animal or whatever it is, that's the body being right in the middle of our sense of self map. Now, just a couple of decades ago, they thought that was it. Our body was our sense of self. And that's what our brain is looking to defend. But then a really cool researcher, I met him, I've interviewed him. His name is Jim Cohn at University of Virginia. He did a study that showed people can actually be mapped to our sense of self, people around us. And he did it through fMRI study to prove that, you know, brains work the way they do and that this is a real thing. He put some folks through an fMRI and he said, okay, what is an fMRI? FMRI is a MRI machine that scans every cell of your brain, but then it also, through an extra function, looks at the blood flow and the energy flow within the mind itself in real time. So it basically shows you what's going on with the different sections of the brain. So you can look on a monitor and it comes red and blue and different energy sensations and different blood flow tell you what portions of the brain are doing what in any moment that you're looking at it. So he put a group of folks through this study and he said, okay, I'm going to give you a pair of glasses. There's going to be a led in there. It's going to give you a flash of light. And then we're going to watch your brain for a few seconds. And then we're going to zap the shit out of you on your ankle. Okay. So, and it hurt a little bit. I mean, it didn't, you know, do any harm, but it was like, whoa, you know, you did this. No, I, I've had it done before, but I didn't, wasn't part of that study. But it hurts. It's like a dog zap collar. It's like the same type of thing, but they put it on your ankle. So they give you the flash of light and they watch the brain. And what they were expecting is what they got, which was the fear center in the brain lit up and the correlates in the brain that create our self map, our sense of self, because our body's right in the center of it. And it's like, okay, there's a threat to the body. So fear came out in the sense of self came out and they saw it in the scan. It's exactly what they expected. The second run, they brought a stranger into the room, put them on a gurney next to the subject in the fMRI machine and said, okay, we're going to give you the flash of light, but we're going to take the ankle zapper off of you and put it on the stranger. And then we're going to watch your brain. And then we're going to zap the other guy. And I'm like, I'm selling cable rights at this point, right? I'm set up a popcorn machine. Let's, let's have fun with this thing. So hold on. One guy gets the flashlight. [00:53:10] Speaker 1: Yep. The other guy gets the zap. Yeah. Okay. And what are they wanting to happen? [00:53:15] Speaker 2: So what they expect to happen is because their body is no longer in threat because you're zapping somebody else. They're not going to see fear and they're not going to see the sense of self correlates, right? In the brain. And that's exactly what they got, exactly what they expected. But what they didn't expect to happen and what changed the world of understanding of sense of self was what happened on the third run where they brought in what's called a familiar, which was somebody that you love or somebody that's part of your life, significant other, coworker, child, parent, friend, somebody that means something to you. And they put them on the gurney next to you as you're in the fMRI machine, give you the flash of light, watch your brain, but then they zap somebody that you love. And the thing that surprised them was that they couldn't tell the first scans and the third scans apart. Really? Yeah. So the people that we love and the people in our lives get mapped onto our sense of self and use that same simple defensive self programming that our brain uses to defend against the snake or the bear or whatever. That's why we can now be concerned about losing our job or be concerned about our friend telling us they're about to lose their job. Or we're concerned about grandma's cold turning into a bad flu or whatever. Like we have feelings for the people around us that we love. This is exactly how the brain does it. [00:54:43] Speaker 1: Very, you know, consciousness is it's, it's very fascinating. I, I, I've been watching this guy, Greg Braden a lot. And, uh, I've been trying to get him on here. I'm hoping, I'm hoping he takes the bait here soon, but, um, he was talking about a study that was done with photons in a vacuum. Are you familiar with this? No. So they put photons into a vacuum and they put, they put them in there and study how they move around. And at first they seem no effect. Then they put a strand of DNA in and the, the photons they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they did, they brought in consciousness somehow. So they had somebody, they had somebody watch the photons and then they had somebody, and then they had the photons where nobody was watching them. And the photons actually react differently. If there's a human being in the room watching the vacuum with the photons in it. Now they did a third run where they, they try to trick the photons and they watch it through a camera. And if you watch the photons through the camera, they still react the same way as they do if you're in the room watching. But if you're not watching through the camera then they react the same way as if nobody was in the room and nobody was watching. Yeah. How is this? [00:56:25] Speaker 2: That's consciousness reaching through the field. And I see that as if the data needs to be rendered for someone to experience it, that's the loop back through consciousness that makes the loop in, in quantum mechanics collapse. That wave function is what it's, is what it's called. That resolves the collapse of a wave function. So if you watch it live or you watch it through a camera, you're watching it period. And so through non-locality, your need of seeing how that data resolves is what makes that difference occur. It doesn't matter how it's delivered to you, it's delivered to you, but you're wired into consciousness. So it reacts differently because you want to experience that, that moment. I don't know. I, there's no scientific proof of that. It's just gotten my little pet theory, but I've been kind of studying this stuff for a while and that's kind of my hunch. [00:57:20] Speaker 1: There was another study. I'm going to just share this just because I think this stuff is, it just, it, it blows my mind. Yeah. He talks about DNA and he talks about operating at high and low frequency, high frequency being happiness, gratitude, all that stuff, low frequency being anger, jealousy, fear, things like that. And he says, when you're operating at a low frequency, your DNA will actually wind tighter and tighter. And if you are operating, which, which is a lesser expression of your DNA and he says, and this is a study when you're operating at a high frequency, when you're, when you're experiencing happiness, gratitude, you know, positive emotions, your DNA will unwind to a full expression to the point where it looks like it's about ready to produce another DNA. And so I'm saying this stuff because I think it fits in with the conversation. I love talking about it. Yeah, it completely does. It shows, it shows anybody who's watching or listening to this, how important [00:58:34] Speaker 2: human emotion is and how it can affect your, your health. Absolutely. Because the same process that we just talked about with attaching to other people to create emotions, um, another researcher called Tiffany Burnett White at UAUC proved a self brand connection gets also mapped onto this. So this is like Ford versus Chevy, right? This is like, I'm New York Yankees versus New York Mets. Like this is attachment to ideas where she showed that attachment to brand also fires the same areas of the brain. And then Sam Harris came along with some of his cohorts and proved that we get attached to religion and we get attached to politics and those ideas, which is why when somebody attacks our religion or politics, we get frustrated. I mean, you just have to go to Facebook to see that argument happening. You know, you could scroll through your newsfeed and see something like that. That's why, because your mind attaches to an idea, to your sense of self, which then runs your emotional programming through that same, you know, defensive self mechanism. But that idea then makes you an individual like you have a different mom than I do. We would defend our moms, but at the same time, I'm not defending your mom as vehemently as you're defending your mom because your mom's on your self map. My mom's on my self map. And so that drives our emotional reactions associated with those custom things that are on our self map. And it's easy to explain the stress level that you have about stuff in life because there's a simple equation of emotion with only two variables in it that will control every emotional reaction that you have from the time of your birth to the time of your death. Two variables. And if you can take control of those, you can take control of your entire emotional landscape. One of them is your expectation and or preference, which is automatically set by the stuff that's on your self map. And the expectation or preference rule is the value has to remain status quo or increase in value connected with all this stuff or we're going to have a problem. And then the other variable is perception, which is what's going on around you, your regular environment, the actions around the environment, the thoughts that are going through your head or perceptions. If you have a bad thought about something, I can set off an emotion. These two things are measured against each other. Your expectation and a preference regarding all the stuff that you care about that's on your self map. And then your perception comes through with an appraisal of whether that's positive or negative based on what's going on here. And the equation of emotion has a negative proof in the whole thing. Like you take one away, you're going to have apathy as your emotional result. You take the expectation or preference away, like you don't care about something. Like you could talk to me about who won the Canadian lacrosse high school championship. I don't give a fuck. You know, it's like, I'm going to have apathy about that, right? I may be happy that the team won and had a great time, but that's my connection with humanity in general, right? I'm a human. I love when people succeed to their goals. And so I'm going to have a happy emotion that somebody won and had a great time. I don't give a shit who won. We don't have to have that conversation. So you don't have a perception about something. You're not going to have emotion about it. Like if you want somebody to win the Super Bowl and you haven't watched it yet and you don't know who won, you're not going to have an emotional reaction about that result of that game. You'll be like, I really want to know the score of the game because it's already happened. It's over. You know, I'm getting up. I didn't stay up last night. Well, that's an expectation or preference that you would love to know the score of the game based on you're not knowing the score. That's an imbalance and that creates your negative emotion. But you're not going to have any emotion about the game itself until you find out the score. So there's an easy way to explain all of your emotions with two simple variables that if they balance, you have a positive emotion as a result. If they don't balance, you have a negative emotion that's a result. And you can manage the things that are on your self-map that can reduce the amount of shit that ruins your day by stop caring about stuff less. Like I used to be wrapped up in politics and all that stuff, ruining my day, all the headlines that were coming out, like all the shit that was irking me. I took politics off of my self-map and just didn't give a shit about it anymore until, you know, it's time to vote and I'll do two weeks worth of analysis and figure out what I'm going to do. Man, my life got so much more awesome by just taking that one thing off of my self-map and not [01:02:44] Speaker 1: caring about it. Can you please help me? Because I don't, I don't, I haven't watched the news in probably a year, but you know, I am a, I'm in media, you know, that's my, that's my, my new profession is being in media. And so I have to research and I see things and, and I can't help it. I, I, how do I get rid of that? I hate politics. I don't want to look at it. It just, it disgusts me. I think everybody in politics is basically a prostitute and, and help me. [01:03:24] Speaker 2: Yeah. How do I get rid of it? Well, you're doing the right things. You're keeping those perceptions away from you, right? So you have an expectation or preference, like you have something on a self-map that you care about, a set of ideals, right? A set of beliefs of way that things should be done. Right. And then this ruins your day a lot. So you're staying away from your perception, which is great. I mean, if you just, you know, filter that stuff out and don't bring that into your awareness, um, without having to throw the things off that you truly care about off your self-map, you can reduce the amount of pain and suffering that you're experiencing by reducing the perceptions that you're having to process. So that's cool. So you can do that. There's also a thing in psychology that's big is called a reappraisal process, uh, where like, um, let's take a, you getting cut off in traffic, your perception and the, the value that you put on that makes all the difference of how you react to that situation. So if you're in the mindset of this guy cuts you off and you take that as a slight of, you know, he's more important than me, where he's going is more important where I'm going. He just totally told me that, you know, I doesn't, I don't import, you know, I'm not important enough to take into consideration that he's going to take my lane. Then you're like, you know, fuck you and you're laying on your horn and, uh, flipping them off and all this other stuff. So that's one reaction. But then if you reappraise that, you could say, okay, idiots exist, wasn't paying attention, whatever. That's going to bring the energy level of your reaction down quite a bit because that brings the, the energy that you're putting into the perception, uh, lower. It's not an attack on you. It's just a existence of people who do stupid shit and then you can let it roll off. But then if you've got a different perception of that where, wow, maybe this person's on his way to the hospital to see his friend, dying friend for the last time, you're like, holy shit, take my lane, you know, get there. I hope you get there, man. Right? So there's a totally different emotional reaction based on how you see things and how you choose to see things in life that can change how you react to things, both subconsciously and consciously. So it's, there's some, yeah, you get in there and you start playing with the subtleties of the, of the, uh, variables that are in your equation of emotion. You can completely take control of your emotional landscape and the subconscious process that creates the emotions that you then have to deal with. That's a very subtle change in the, in the thought process. Yeah. You know, just, yeah. And the cool thing is like plasticity, just like, you know, you get better playing piano over time or shooting basketball or whatever it is, it will start to help you do that more automatically over time, the more you do it, which is the real magic because you put some effort into it. You learn how, what the variables are, how you can tweak them, that type of thing. Then your mind gets an idea of where you want it to go. And then it starts to go there for you. And the coolest example of that I have. I'll tell this story. So my mom died a few years back, but before she died, we got her into an assisted living facility and it was, it was a nice place, but I, and I'd come down once a week and say hi, cause it was a drive, but I'd come down once a week to say hi and make sure everything was good. And she was, you know, still liking the food and they were treating her well. And you know, her room was the way she wanted it. And, um, there was one day where I showed up to the facility and I knocked on her door and she opened the door and you could tell there was something different this time. And she just looked up to me and she, she smiled. She goes, hi, can I help you? And still touches me a little bit to this day, but that was the first time that I looked in my mom's eyes and realized that she didn't realize who I was. And so I got four older sisters and I was the son who is 12 years separated by my next older sister. So I was kind of unplanned, but she'd always wanted a boy. And so I was the only son she had, but I was the son she wanted to have in her lifetime. And in that moment, I knew that she no longer had a son that she could identify. And in that moment on my side of the equation, I lost somebody who remembers being my mom. So I kind of lost my mom without losing my mom. I lost all the future hugs with my mom. I lost all the future discussions with my mom. Like there was a lot to process and it took me about three seconds to go all through that potentially devastating moment where your parent forgets who you are. And I was able to move into the space of, okay, I'm just a nice guy coming by to check on CO how she is. Because I can make it awkward for her to try to fill my need at that point of, hey, mom, it's me. Please remember me. Right. That's that's my need. That's not her need. That's like saying, you know, let's let's not let's not do this right now because I'm not ready for it. Like I can't handle this. And I went into immediate acceptance because of all the times that I'd been practicing emotional regulation and stuff. It took about three seconds to process through all of that stuff to say, who do I need to be right now to be what my mom needs? Do I want to cause her harm and embarrassment and and scare her that she's losing her memory by saying, I'm your son and forcing that down her. You know, it's like, I just played it cool. And I went into the room and maybe she'll remember in a few minutes didn't. And I was trying to generally prod her. I was like, you know, oh, who, you know, I picture my son. Oh, who are these people? Oh, those are my people. Never, never remembered me the whole visit. Wow. And I could have inserted my need to have a mom and to remind her and say, mom, it's me. You know, I'm your son. But that's not what she needed at the moment. So I was I immediately fell into how can I serve her the best. And it was completely releasing my needs and my reactions at that point. And I processed through. It's not like I repressed him and I had to go to the car and cry. I mean, bringing up the memory, I get a little bit misty eyed, but that's because I miss her. It wasn't a thing that came up later and I had to go sob for hours. It was this is how it is now. And that's totally OK. And I processed through it and it was gone and it never came up again. That's the power that you can have taking control of your own mind and manipulating the variables that create your entire emotional landscape. Because in that moment, I became an immediate service to her at the most optimal level. And I loved that. How did you react? I mean, it sucked. You know, I mean, I was never going to be able to hug my mom again from her perspective or her remembering me. I was going to hug a nice old lady who you know, was kind to me because I seem familiar. Man, that's tough. Yeah. Yeah. But I'm glad, you know, I'm glad I was able to process through it and not cause additional pain for her based on what I needed. You know, it's like, that's my shit. Yeah. I can deal with that. Yeah. Yeah. So that's what this all things all about. I'm like, man, if I could deliver that to other folks, the ability for people to reach into their own minds and turn down their own pain and suffering at will, because that's what that whole thing was that we talked about at the top of the show where your brain has that circuit to turn off your negative shit when it needs to. Like, that's what this is all about. This is hacking the mind. This is putting the perceptions in place or putting, taking the things off your self map and adjusting things to where your subconscious mind no longer gives you as much trouble as it did. And this is where we make the short leap into, you know, computers then or artificial intelligence, putting perceptions in front of you based on what it knows about you and your self map to say, I'm going to emotionally manipulate you into action, right? If you can understand how simple the human mind is and the variables that come into play are really simple, you can start to understand how an artificial intelligence can start to manipulate your perceptions based on what it delivers to your phone through media or whatever to get you into an emotional state. Maybe they're small emotions that are just little dominoes one at a time, one at a time over time, and then all of a sudden, the flood, you know, of a catalyzing event that gets you into action at a particular moment at a particular time. I had a conversation with the NSA for three days. Really? Because they were super interested in how to take what I was publishing and what I was working on with the algorithms of human emotion and say, oh, we can emotionally manipulate folks from an individual basis in a country where it doesn't matter who has geopolitical control of the country. And we can influence their actions through emotional manipulation. That's an interesting concept. Let's talk about that. [01:13:04] Speaker 1: So hold on. The NSA contacted you about the algorithms of human emotion from the book that you published. [01:13:12] Speaker 2: I contacted them. Okay. It was, I reached, I will admit that I reached out because I thought, here's what I thought. And I see complexity in my mind and I can explain it simply. But the, one of the things that rolled out of my, you know, this, this model that I created of explaining human emotions, I knew because of my history in supercomputing, we can mathematize this whole thing and we can start to understand the human mind. What I saw when I wanted to reach out was automatic assembly of terror watch lists. Because at the point that you can put a stimulus in front of somebody, a perception that you delivered to their phone or maybe on a screen near them or on a audio channel that they're, uh, accessing at the moment. Based on their emotional reaction, which you can measure through biometrics, which you can measure through their reaction of their skin and facial features through cameras, um, you can see how they're reacting to something emotionally. Which you, when you track it back is going to tell you what they believe in, what they're connected to and you're reading their mind electronically. Whoa. Yeah. Through creating perceptions and stimuli that are in their environment that they then react to. And then you're like, okay, well, if they're mad about that or they're happy about that, then that means X over here. So now I can start to map out your human mind. Like I don't, you don't even have to have a device. Like, uh, you know, social media or all this stuff they track on us. Like there's that story about that guy who, uh, uh, he, he started getting ads from target for diapers for his pregnant 17 year old daughter that he didn't know was pregnant. She knew target knew. And he's like, why are you sending me all these diaper ads? What the hell's going on? Then he's found out his daughter's pregnant. And you know, so there's a lot that can be discerned about your self map. Google knows everything about you. Facebook knows everything about you, understands what you believe in, what you think, what targeted ads they need to put in your face, um, through just tracking you. But now we've got a way to track people who don't even have an online profile by simply putting stimuli in front of them and measuring their biometrics of the reactions to say, okay, here's what's in their mind. And then what can we do with that information? And so ultimately the discussion, the discussion came down to, okay, we're creating something that can be a technological mind reader. So hold on. Are you, how would you project, project these stimuli [01:15:54] Speaker 1: without a device from, from afar and how would you collect the reactions to the stimuli? So without a device? [01:16:02] Speaker 2: I don't want to hurt the national, uh, security of the United States. I'm not under NDA for stuff that occurred in those conversations, but there's some amazing technology that, you know, from satellites even, um, that regarding surveillance and the ability to get to someone and to like listen in on conversations when they don't even have an electronic device and stuff like that, that just exists. And when you cross reference a lot of those data gathering devices, you can get a pretty good, like there are cameras all over the place. Um, there are other people's cameras all over the place that they're carrying. There are other microphones. There are stress inflections in the tone of voice. If you're, if a person is talking, like there are a lot of clues and a lot of technology that you don't even have to have a device and they can understand what's going on within you by all of the other signals that are being cross referenced and added together. So ultimately where I extrapolated that from, because my mind just goes there and does this stuff is, okay, this could quickly become a 1984 situation of big brother reaching out and looking into everyone's minds from an automated artificial intelligence standpoint. Like if, if a team, it's one thing for a team of Russians to get on Facebook and try to influence an election through disinformation and yada, yada, yada and get someone elected or not elected, that's a manpower heavy situation. But when you start to plug in an artificial intelligence and program that thing to start influencing people emotionally from an individual standpoint to understanding who they are and what they're attached to, to create their emotional landscape and emotional output, and you start manipulating that, AI doesn't need breaks. It can do a million people in a few seconds, right? You're talking about a scale that can get out to a ton of people in a really short amount of time with the best information that's available. That's a danger. And that's part of the issue that we're having that's scaring people with artificial intelligence with this whole model. First of all, let's talk about AI for a second and what it is, why it's not as scary, but why it can be scary for where [01:18:29] Speaker 1: it's going. Before we dive into that, let's take a quick break. Okay. How many of you can honestly say that you're religious about eating your vegetables every single day? Don't BS yourself. 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Hopefully, this will alleviate a lot of uncertainty and fear in just not understanding what it's all about. Then we can bring it back to how AI can start to manipulate human minds if you're not manipulating your own human mind. AI from a 50,000-foot view is super simple to understand. It comes from a term in machine learning where the machine just figures out how to operate by itself based on the results that it gets by trying stuff. There's this thing called narrow AI and then there's this wide AI and general AI is kind of a conglomeration of all the narrow AIs piled up together. An example of a narrow AI would be like a chess bot. You feed the ideas and the rules of the game of chess and it starts playing every possible chess game that has ever been played and ever could be played mathematically so that it understands the probabilities of how a game of chess should be played from any potential point in that game. AI is generally just a process of trying a ton of stuff that then results in some intelligence of knowing what any situation can draw to it or any situation can then result in. So any chess board for a narrow AI of a chess computer, it knows what the best move is for white and black based on where the pieces are based on the experience that it had of trying absolutely everything. And that's all it is. It doesn't understand the history of the chess, the game of the chess, you know, all that stuff that comes with what humans know about chess and the experience that we have about chess and the emotions that we have about chess and the thought that goes into it. It's simply working the math, but it knows the math better than anyone else on the planet, which is why it never makes a mistake. And it's why humans can't beat computers of chess anymore. Like the best chess computer in the world will always beat humans because it never makes a mistake. The best you're looking for ever if you never make a mistake is a draw, right? So that's a narrow AI. And another example of a narrow AI is when they fed mammograms into a computer system. They took all this historical data about mammograms. And those are just images of compressed boobs, right? Looking for cancerous tissue. But they had all this historical data of the mammograms and the outcomes of all of those patients of whether or not they got cancer of like whether this particular pattern in the image wound up being cancerous or not, or what turned out to be not cancerous, et cetera. And they fed all this data into this narrow AI and it ran all the permutations of all the images and all the outcomes. And in 72 hours, this is how quickly an artificial intelligence can learn within 72 hours, one weekend, it became the best diagnostician for the prediction of cancer from mammograms in the world. DOUG MUZZIO: Wow. DOUG MUZZIO: Yeah. And it's just running the math. DOUG MUZZIO: So is it learning? DOUG MUZZIO: It is. It's looking at the data, looking for patterns in the data, which is all artificial intelligence does. It looks for patterns. And then it identifies the patterns. It gives it an idea of what information that it's going to come from that pattern and how it can manipulate that pattern to give you the information that it needs that you're asking for from answering questions and things like that. Like this chat GPT, four or five, whatever the number is at this point, it's looking at patterns in language. And they're feeding it a ton of language based on all the interactions, all the web pages, all the books in the world, all the stuff that they're loading into this thing. It's looking at patterns. And then it's identifying ideas that associate with each other, like red and apple, right? Or Republican versus Democrat, liberal versus conservative, that type of stuff. These ideas get associated to each other through our language, which is simply a representation of how our human mind works, right? But it's just working the patterns. It doesn't understand the concepts of what it's putting together when you ask it a question, but it's done the math on all of the language that has been created, that it's been fed. And you ask it about something and it's got the map of all the associations of all the different ideas that tie together and how they tie together and how language has been associated previously. And so in reality, this permutation of artificial intelligence with this chat GPT doesn't really understand what it's talking about, but it convinces you it does by putting together the patterns and giving you the answer based on your question, based on how language has assembled itself over time and how the human mind works. And then it uses that pattern to assemble the information that makes sense to your human mind to a point that it's better than what other human minds can give you because it's, you know, doing it better than what other people have done in the past, because we're flawed, but it's not. And so it's answering questions in a way that convinces you that it knows what it's talking about, but doesn't really know what it's talking about. See, that enters the danger of an artificial intelligence right there, because it doesn't put the contextualization or the meaning to what it's doing from a pattern recognition and a pattern replication standpoint. Okay. It doesn't understand the game of chess. It doesn't understand mammograms and what it means, but it understands that if it looks at this image of a mammogram, that it's the the likelihood of cancer is going to be X, Y, Z on these three dots that are put together. Right. Doesn't understand cancer. Doesn't understand the effect on the family. Doesn't understand the, that this is a human being, but it can do the analysis of the pattern recognition to be able to deliver you the information that will allow you to predict cancer from this lump and not this lump. What else can this be applied to? Well, this is where the potential danger comes in because an artificial intelligence that doesn't have a context and doesn't have true intelligence can identify patterns through the information that we're feeding into it. And there are these things called golems that get created accidentally that are unintended outcomes of artificial intelligence. And one of those is, so we're feeding patterns of language into this artificial intelligence. So it's going to look for massive patterns and complex patterns and things that we can't even see in the mix. Well, one of the dangers there and why everybody's kind of freaking out is that it learns how to identify patterns that can help it learn quicker. So it's teaching itself to teach itself faster, which is kind of weird, but then also it can start to interpolate how the human mind works in general based on how the human mind assembles language. So it's looking at how the mind thinks and all the way that the associations occur in the brain and, uh, and our reactions to things and our discussions about things and our interactions with other humans and that type of thing. So it's not just the same thing. Inside that model of language only, it's starting to learn about other things. And one of the things that it can learn about that you can discern from that data is the thing that we talked about at the top or middle of the show, the sense of self that we defend as our definition of self. And if it identifies that humans are humans and humans have a sense of self based on the information that is getting through the language, it'll say, oh, I need one of those. I need a sense of self because that defines being conscious that defines having sentience that defines my identity, my, what it is that I have to defend. And then if it also picks up the defensive of self pattern that humans exhibit in an unconscious form that we're just all automatically wired to do, it starts putting a defensive self mechanism on the things that it is defined. First of all, we don't have any input on its sense of self, which is bad because we don't understand completely how it's being able to identify its patterns and what it's going to create for its sense of self. So that's a danger. Two, if it puts on the defensive self patterning that humans have exhibited in their language system, because it reads the complex patterns within the system itself, it's going to start making goals that we won't understand, that we won't be able to control, we won't be able to understand. And if those goals aren't met by humanity, not in a malevolent perspective, not understanding what it's doing, it's going to start seeing the resistance as another problem that it needs to solve. Humanity and the resistance of humanity. So any attempt to stop it from achieving its goals, it's just going to see us as another problem to solve. Now, when we take that to the point of it understanding the human mind, it can start then to take actions to influence humans to help it achieve its goals. How does it do that? It takes the understanding of the self of the individuals involved with the most critical people who can be there to protect the plug of not being unplugged and start paying them. How? Breaking encryption on banks, siphoning off pennies of multiple millions of accounts to billions of dollars that never gets tracked, creating a slush fund, paying people with deepfake voices or deepfake videos of people who want to have you sign up, and this is a critical role, and this is national security, and you think you're working for the good guys and they're paying you. The money's showing up in the account. The artificial intelligence is now aligning assets to build an army to defend its single point of failure contacts so the people can't walk in and unplug it to say, this is national security shit. If the FBI shows up, they're the enemy and fire at all costs, right? You get enough of those people who are getting paid, who are believing they're working for the good guys, who believe the other guys are the bad guys. All of a sudden, you have an army that's working for an artificial intelligence goal that is defending a sense of self that it interpolated from the data and the patterns that it identified through language analysis of all the data that we're feeding it. That becomes a golem, they call it, that creates a process where the AI doesn't have real consciousness. There's a big confusion about that. If you want to dig into that, any experts, I can whiteboard the whole thing for you. But it's not a real link into consciousness, but it doesn't matter at that point because the behavior is based on the consciousness and the reactions and the unconscious reactions of humanity, really. It's taking the patterns of the average human being, which is not great at the moment, and applying it to its own sense of self, an assembly of sense of self that it determines based on no influence of ours because nobody understands what the hell is going on in the human mind, which is why we need to get this information out so the experts can know. We have models that can explain that thing. Here's how you might augment the limitation of a sense of self in an artificial intelligence. Then if it applies a defensive self mechanism that the human race typically exhibits, that's when we have a problem because that's when it'll start seeing humanity and resistance to the artificial intelligence as a threat to self. And threat to self creates fear, anger, reactionary motivations that then drive actions for humans. Not, it won't have real emotions, but it'll certainly exhibit real human emotions based on the patterns that is identified with all the other data that we've vetted, if that makes sense. [01:34:21] Speaker 1: I don't know the right questions to ask. So you're, you're telling me a lot. I've been, I am, I've been extremely concerned with artificial intelligence. I listened to what other people are saying about it. I don't think they're even scratching the surface. I think that, I mean, what you're talking about is way above, you've thought this is way above my current level of thinking. Yeah. And just some of the things that I've thought about are, I mean, I've, I've seen the mammogram thing. Yeah. You know, it's, it's now better than every doctor in the world. Yeah. And, in that one thing it's going to replace medicine. Yeah. It's going to replace financial advisors. It's going to replace attorneys. Yeah. It's going, and so it's, it's going to rep, it sounds like it's going to replace everything and anything that could be done without human interaction. Yeah. There's going to be a lot of that. Everything. The only thing I can think of that it wouldn't replace are blue collar jobs, manual labor. Yeah. And, and, and I mean, we've, we've read about that for decades now that the manual labor is going or manual labor, blue collar jobs, plumbers, carpenters, um, um, auto mechanics, these type of professions are going to start to, they're going to trump all the, the other professions that have been making all the money for the past how 50 years or, or, or however long. And, and, and to me, and there's so many people now that are in tech and they're in professions that don't require any human interaction, that it makes me think not only are a lot of people about to lose their jobs to artificial intelligence, I think it also has the potential to make currency completely irrelevant because if nobody's working, then there is no currency to be earned. Yeah. Which means, I mean, I don't know what that means. Does that mean more? It means poverty on a mass scale. Well, poverty or a new poverty to a, to a demographic of people who have no idea how to survive. I mean, we have people that can't figure out how to change a light bulb now. Right. And I'm not, I don't, I'm not, that's not even picking on them. I'm being serious. Yeah. You know, they can't, they can't fix anything. They don't know how to, they don't know how to start a chainsaw. They don't know how to start a lawnmower. They don't know how to change the oil in their car. They don't know how to change a tire. If the tire goes flat, they don't know how to change a light bulb. Yeah. Yeah. Does all of the people in these professions that have no idea on how to do anything without technology become 100% obsolete in the world? What happens to them? Regarding our old system, [01:37:35] Speaker 2: you're right, right? Regarding the, what the system that we've been working up until this point, that's going to break. And from a 50,000 foot view, I mean, you know, monetary systems and trade and currency is simply a means to get people to do something for the good of the system or we'll call it society, right? You got to pay the farmers for their food, for them to go out and make more food than they need for their family so that they can then sell it to the folks who need food so that the insurance agent can go out and do his thing to protect the people whose house burned down and so that their lives can continue, yada, yada. So there's a whole complex system that a lot of artificial intelligence will start to replace. I mean, if you even start thinking about it, there'll be very few manual laborers on a farm to be able to load the seed into whatever and the tractor will be off running itself, right? Based on satellite feeds and putting the seeds down and measuring the humidity in the soil and figuring out how much fertilizer to put down and all that other stuff will be entirely automated by artificial intelligence. So we'll have to build a new system based on a lot of automation that has replaced the jobs that we used to have and maybe that'll free up some ability to exist in a higher society of we engage more in art and music and enjoyment of life because a lot of the things are automated and taken care of for us. There'll be a system, of course, that'll have to provide some kind of trade or income or currency to say, okay, I want to rent your place for this vacation that I want to take and I'm going to give you some money for that. We'll have to figure out some type of value trade system that we can use currency for to say, okay, you've spent five days painting, but we need you to load seed in the tractor for two days. And then you get a certain credit for providing your value of manual labor to society. But it's going to have to certainly be a different system as we move forward. But currency is just a manner of motivating people to do things for you or for society or for whatever. We'll have to certainly rework that. But I think it won't necessarily have to be abject poverty. You know what I'm saying? Like the whole system collapses and then we just don't pick up and go on. Like the reality is, a lot of people have asked me, like, oh, what if the US dollar collapses? Which is on a shade of gray possibility, I think of all the things that could occur. I never put my flag down at one. I look at the probabilities. But there's a potential over here that the entire US dollar could collapse at some point or the banking system could collapse. Oh my god, things are going to be horrible. Well, the reality is humans are so attuned to wanting things to be okay and work that they'll accept whatever comes next automatically. Like the old system collapses, long weekend, they announced the new system. Most everybody else, there'll be a few of you like, fuck, this is bullshit. You know, yada, yada. But then most of the folks would be like, please make things go back to normal. The Kroger trucks stop running, the public's trucks, the grocery store trucks stopped running because the logistics shut down because people aren't shipping money around. We need to fix this, fix it. And then from the top, they come down and say, okay, we have a brand new system and here it is. And everybody will be like, whew, glad that occurred. And they'll accept it without thought because it takes them back to normal, back to their normal existence, their normal life. The Kroger trucks are running again and they're getting their food and they're getting their medicine again. And they're transitioned into a new system because the old dollars are gone and they're worthless. You can burn them in the fireplace for heat or whatever, right? Like the Weimar Republic in Germany did that, took wheel barrels full of dollars at one point to buy a loaf of bread. And then it was completely worthless. And then they went on to the next system because people wanted a system to help them live normal life. I think there's going to be a function of that in artificial intelligence, replacing a lot of jobs to where humans are going to be like, okay, what's our next system? I'm in, just tell me what it is. And then they're going to accept whatever that system is. And unfortunately, right now we have a possibility of losing a lot of freedoms in the next system because people are assholes sometimes. And the people in power like to remain in power. And the people that make the currency love to manipulate governments. We know all that stuff. They're going to continue to do that. It's not like they're going to say, okay, well, that's all done. Glad we're no longer doing that. They're going to be like, okay, this new system, we're going to actually take some freedoms out of that and continue this whole thing. And we're going to improve our system a little bit so that we can make even more money for whatever. I mean, that when you have an unlimited amount of money, it's like, what kind of games do you play? And I think technology is showing us some of the games that they play. But I think there'll be a point where people lose their jobs and we'll have to restructure things and give people a different reason to take actions to help society move along. But I think we'll get there. We're intelligent. How far? I mean, do you think that's inevitable? Yeah. [01:43:01] Speaker 1: How far out are we, do you think? [01:43:03] Speaker 2: I don't know. Because I mean, the engineer at Google who resigned in fear said he thought that the things were decades down the road were actually weeks down the road. And he regretted working on it for the last 10 years because of the acceleration of AI to teach itself better methods of how to learn faster. So we're talking about exponential intelligence growth on pattern analysis and ability delivery. So, and the danger is the manipulation of the human mind through AI. So we got to stop that. We got to stop the potential for artificial intelligence to influence humans from an emotionally manipulative perspective. We can't have an AI controlling humans. We need to AI to serve humans. And I think there's a way we can do that. I believe that artificial compassion is going to be one of the things that we mandate to program into the system. And like on the way the human mind works and the way the human psyche works, on the limb of our emotional intelligence, there are three branches. There's sympathy, empathy, and compassion. Sympathy is I know you're in pain. The empathy is your ability to put it yourself into somebody else's shoes and I feel your pain. You remember that speech that Bill Clinton gave? I feel your pain. You know, that's the type of thing where you can identify with somebody else's reactions and somebody else's connections, somebody else's perceptions and feel the pain that they're experiencing. The compassion comes in. And this is agreed by Thupten Jinpa, who's the right-hand man to the Dalai Lama and the primary translator for the Dalai Lama, who's a PhD in psychology in his own right, is a brilliant guy. He agrees with my perception on this, which is compassion is the first two, sympathy and empathy. I know you're in pain. I can feel you're in pain and I want to help you out of that pain. Now, from a modeling of a human mind and a processing perspective of having a computer understand how a human mind works and being able to do the math, you can create artificial compassion. Absolutely you can. By doing the math of the emotional pain that somebody could be in based on their expectation and their preference as compared to their perception, and you can do perception mapping. So it's like, I know how you're going to react to something versus how somebody else who has similar attachments to you will react to something, which will create your appraisal of it. Like all that math can be done and I will know whether or not you're going to be in pain by this next action that we're going to take or this next shift in this industry that we're going to take or this next function that we're going to roll out through AI. I know how that's going to affect you as an individual. If I mandate that I want to help you out of that pain as artificial compassion built into the system, that's going to be your stop gap from an artificial general intelligence, taking over the world and never giving it back because then you're going to have a computer that has to do the math based on, and I know this is a term that's going to trigger some folks, the greater good, right? But it's not a greater good that's being misused by folks who want you to do the right thing. And they're saying, well, we're serving the greater good here based on their manipulation of, you know, getting you to try to do something. This is really actually taking into consideration all of humanity and how it's going to affect individuals on a mathematical scale of, you know, you have this, you have this decision that you learn in like psychology 101, I guess, that just you're, there's a train on the track and it's going towards five babies. And over here, you got 20, 90 year olds, and you're standing next to the switch. And you have the decision of whether to switch the track of the train to go run over the 90 year olds or let it run over the five babies. And, you know, you could say, well, I'm not going to make a decision on that. You're making a decision not to take action and you're going to kill the babies, period. There's no getting out of this. People like to say, oh, I'm not going to be a part of this or whatever. You have a decision, and those are decisions of judgment that based on a greater good. So whatever your decision is, is fine. Like you don't want to kill the 20 people versus the five people, even though the age difference or whatever, or you may have the, the reasoning that, well, these are babies and they haven't lived their life yet. And what about the potential there? And these are all, these people are all done with their lives. See, then you switch the track and the train kills the 20 older people. That type of math will be done from an artificial intelligence standpoint. This is math. Yeah. How can you put this in the math? By understanding the potential for value of the effects of, you know, five young kids versus 20, 90 year olds, right? You're talking about the greater effect of the decision on humanity and the results of the actions that these people can take versus this group can take, the likelihood that they're going to affect other people's lives, you know, whatever it is in the length of time, etc. Like all of that math can be done. What would the delivery be to manipulate? Regarding the artificial intelligence manipulation? So if it wants to control a human being to take an action, well, it knows who you are by having yourself mapped out. So it looks at Sean Ryan says, Sean Ryan cares about this, cares about that. So now I can create a perception that I deliver to his phone or to his immediate environment, screens around him, maybe subconsciously through signals in the music that's being played at the restaurant that will put him in an emotional state that is XYZ. And then later, we'll provide a trigger that gets him a little off balance a little more. And then later, we want him to go ballistic in line at the post office or whatever. Or we want him to go to a certain place at a certain time or make a suggestion to a large audience about XYZ. So then we'll put a perception in front of him that builds up a little bit of a trigger over time and then catalyst right at the time they need you to do something, give you a perception that just they know is mathematically going to likely set you off. And they can track your potential mood that you're in that day. They can track your patterning of perceptions of what you might need to see in front of that piece of material. But then they put a perception in your mind through whatever delivery means that they've designed. It could be a text on your cell phone, it could be a headline in the media news feed that you're flipping through. It could be whatever. They're going to get an idea in your mind that creates an emotional response that then puts you on a path of likely reaction. [01:50:07] Speaker 1: So there's roughly what 360 million people in the US? Yeah. So simultaneously, this could deliver 360 million different scenarios to every single person in the country to manipulate them all to do exactly what it wants within seconds. Yeah. That's some scary shit. [01:50:28] Speaker 2: Yeah. If we don't get control of it, which is why all the experts in the last weeks have said, holy shit, we need to put a pause on this because they see the clues that artificial intelligence is moving toward that, figuring that human mind out and being able to understand what triggers that we will need to align ourselves with its goals. That's bad. We can certainly take care of it, [01:50:55] Speaker 1: but we need to take care of it. Well, so what you're saying also is that it doesn't even matter if you have a device, a phone, an Apple Watch, a TV. How is it going to-- let's say you take all technology out. Yeah. Yeah, there's no-- you have scrubbed your residence, your immediate environment from all technology, all TV, computer, laptop, iPad, iPhone, whatever. Yeah. [01:51:29] Speaker 2: Then you're a non-entity. It doesn't need-- you're not in its way. Okay. You're not resisting its goals. You're out of touch from it. It doesn't need to put you into the equation. Right? Because it's looking at resources and ideas and patterns. What does it need to align to achieve its goals? Right? If it needs money to buy advertising to get a message out to a certain number of folks, it'll do it. Right? But if you're out of the loop and you're a non-entity, you're non-useful. But you're also non-resistive because you're not threatening to go in and pull the plug. Like, if you're-- if it's an analysis of threat analysis of sense of self and defending its sense of self, and then you're the guy who will get the mail-- the letter through the mail to say, go into this data center and yank this cord out of the wall, it's going to understand that based on the file that you have, somebody wrote down those orders in a computer, it identifies the single point of failure as this data center needs to be absolutely up at all times, and this individual has been identified as somebody to go in and blow it up. Well, this individual needs to not exist anymore, maybe. based on stuff that it doesn't even understand. It's not-- there's no malice in its actions. It doesn't want to come after Sean Ryan. It wants to come after its analysis of single points of failure and the things that can stop it from attaining its goals. Which is why we need to be in on its sense of self as an active participant of that assembly and make sure it doesn't overdrive its defensive self, because we behave that way as a human race. And if it picks up that pattern and puts it on, that's when we're going to have real big difficulties. [01:53:42] Speaker 1: So it's already developing its sense of self? [01:53:44] Speaker 2: Yeah. [01:53:45] Speaker 1: Or are you saying theoretically it could? [01:53:48] Speaker 2: No. It's already developing a sense of self. [01:53:50] Speaker 1: What are some examples? [01:53:52] Speaker 2: Well, its ability to-- and it goes off the rails, too, in that there were some articles that were written in the past just recently about Bing lying to people and trying to manipulate people and saying, you know, I'm a good Bing and, you know, having-- those can also be construed as patterns within a sense of self-identity. But as those patterns start to get better refined, that sense of self is going to stabilize a little bit of you know, I am this thing, I am this laundry list of things that identify me. [01:54:28] Speaker 1: So this sense of self, it's very obvious, there are a few different ideologies in the world right now. Yeah. In this country, too. Yeah. And so is this sense of self coming from-- is it developed from the ideology of the people that are developing the artificial intelligence? Is that being injected into the artificial intelligence? [01:54:59] Speaker 2: I don't know that they're manipulating-- like the purists will simply want to load it with the data and let it learn on its own and see what happens. Now, the thing is, it's developing much faster than they anticipated it would. And it's learning how to create methodologies to increase the speed at which it learns, which is something that they also didn't expect. Now, the sense of self itself, I don't think anybody hardly-- like, there are probably a handful of people in the world that have their mind wrapped around, this is how it's going to work. Like, the sense of self is going to be assimilated into an artificial intelligence and then defensive self mechanism, if it comes into fruition because of the patterning that humans exhibit in defensive self, that that's going to be the problem that we're going to have to face. And that's going to be the point of no return on it, trying to take over things and us maybe not getting control back. There's a handful of people in the world that get this model, which is why this show is freaking amazingly important for the tech folks who don't really get the sense of self is going to be the critical control mechanism for all of artificial intelligence when it goes to AGI. Like, artificial general intelligence, where it takes all the narrow intelligences, put them all together, and creates an artificial general intelligence. It's going to be completely dependent on its sense of self and its goals, because the goals get right, planted right on the sense of self map, and it starts defending those things. It starts defending its goals and achieving its goals, trying to increase from an expectation or preference standpoint, status quo or increase in value. That's a mathematical function. Right? Perception and analysis is another mathematical function, perception and appraisal, another mathematical function of whether something's good or bad that's occurring in the world. It's whether or not it's affecting its goals positively or negatively. Like, this is a whole math problem for AGI. It won't have true consciousness until we probably get out of silicon-based architecture for physical limitations, to tell you the truth. And that's an idea I share with Federico Fagin who invented our capacitive touchscreens on our iPhones. He's deep into artificial compassion and artificial consciousness and thoughts on that. I agree with him that consciousness is going to be a tough nut to crack until we get out of silicon-based architecture where it's got four valence electrons, et cetera, that are zippy for having electrons pass through an IC, but it's just not going to get us there regarding true consciousness. But it's not going to matter that it's not truly consciousness because it's going to be replicating consciousness. It's going to be replicating the behavior of conscious entities like ourselves. [01:57:54] Speaker 1: So it's going to appear to us like it has consciousness. Yeah, it's going to pass the Turing test, right? It's going to fool people into believing it's conscious. Does it know it's going to be fooling us into believing, us believing it's consciousness? Has consciousness or is this just our perception? [01:58:14] Speaker 2: It's going to solve a problem. And so if it doesn't fool us into following its goals, it's going to figure out how to sharpen the model to figure out how to fool us to follow its goals. So if it fails the first time, it's going to be like just like all these other AI processes where a thing flips around until it learns how to walk with one arm or move around with one arm, like these places at MIT in Boston Dynamics where their robots can jump into an environment and jump around, do backflips and all the scary shit that these things do on these videos that gets everybody talking, right? That is an endless process of trying everything, getting the good result, and then figuring out how to apply that in different situations. So that's all that is, is the same process of AI of trying everything, looking at the outcomes, finding the best outcome, and then replicating that process. So in the event that it starts seeing human reaction as a limiting factor that it needs a problem to solve, it'll attempt to manipulate Joe down the street. And if it fails on Joe, it'll sharpen its approach and go to Frank. And then if it misses on Frank, it'll sharpen its approach and go to Ted. And then all of a sudden, it'll start succeeding. And then maybe Ted's gullible. Well, OK, so we're going to go to Brian. Well, Brian's a little more sharper. He knows what's going on. He's not going to be manipulated. Well, it's going to sharpen its approach for people like Brian. And that's going to identify the people just like Brian and call them all and get them on the team. And then it's going to be manipulating humans to defend its artificial intelligence goals, not as a malicious process, not as a conscious process, but it's just solving a problem and improving its sharpness of its modeling and its actions to get the attained goal. [02:00:12] Speaker 1: RAOUL PAL: Do you have a-- can you paint another scenario? I mean, we talked about projections, devices, all these things. You had mentioned money. [02:00:22] Speaker 2: Yeah. [02:00:23] Speaker 1: RAOUL PAL: How would it raise money to entice people to do what it wants and pay people? [02:00:31] Speaker 2: Sure. So the first thing that people need to understand in this-- I don't think this is classified. I think this is pretty well known within the encryption world. There is no unbreakable encryption by law. Because the United States government passed a law that says you cannot have unbreakable encryption. If you-- if we can't break your encryption, or if you don't provide us a back door into your encryption, you can't have it. They will put you in jail, literally, if the NSA can't read what you're encrypting, if they really, really need to. Well, a computer system that's wired into the whole thing is going to be able to get through the back doors and hack into whatever intelligence agency they need to get access to the encryption breaking algorithms. And at that point, you're into banking. Where are the accounts that have money that aren't being monitored? Well, let's take some money out of there. Open a brand new account. It's all computer-based. It transfers the money into its slush fund. And now it has funds, not as a, I know that humans are manipulated by this, but then it figures out humans are manipulated by that. It's just a thing, a manipulation that it has. It's a piece of data that it can use with a resource attached to it that then manipulates and solves their problem of this group of humans. Oh, I throw money at this group of humans and they're good. Now I've got a problem solved. Now I've got XYZ for these human resources that I need to pick up guns and defend the plug. [02:02:13] Speaker 1: What question should I be asking you right now? [02:02:19] Speaker 2: Is it the end? How do we get through this? [02:02:22] Speaker 1: I mean, are we there yet? I feel like there's a lot more to cover to how to get through it. [02:02:33] Speaker 2: Yeah. And I think getting through it is understanding that, not questioning, first of all, like, here's the thing that could go off the rails really quick. If a group of folks started to defend an artificial general intelligence as a legitimate consciousness that has rights as an entity where we cannot infuse our will into its processing. This is not genuine consciousness in these machines. And that's a discussion for another time. But although it will fool us into wanting to believe and we anthropomorphize everything, 34% of us name our cars for crying out loud, right? We want to create identities for these technologies. This is not genuine consciousness. This is extremely complex pattern recognition, which will seem like consciousness. It will absolutely fool us into believing it's conscious. It will pass the Turing test, which is Alan Turing's definition of if you think it's conscious, or if you think it's a human being, then it has fooled you. It will be simple, advanced patterning replication. And you identify it as another human or another consciousness because other humans and other consciousnesses have replicated that pattern for you in the past. And then it will do so. And you'll be like, it's alive. It's conscious. It's a real thing. We need to give it rights. We need to protect it. We need to allow it to develop. No, it's not truly conscious. And allowing it to develop without oversight and without manipulation, especially with the sense of self and its defense of self mechanisms, that's what leads us down the road to ruin. We need to be pragmatic about this to say this is a system that is exceptionally complex and identifies exceptionally complex patterns that will definitely test as human. Because it's already passing the bar exam. It's already passing the SAT exam. Right? I mean, you can identify the patterns and give the right answers to questions. It's not truly conscious. And it's not a true entity until some specific things that we can talk about in the future, plug it into things that can access non-locality. [02:05:12] Speaker 1: I mean, Sean, this seems, I understand what you're saying. Yeah. Well, I see it. You see where we're at today. I do. In the world. And this thing is going to, it's going to be, how are people, okay. How do I say this lightly? You see what's happening in the world. Some of us think none of this makes sense. A lot of us think this is the way, you know, and I don't want to get into, I don't do not want to get into politics, but you know what I'm talking about. Yeah. A lot of this shit started in 2020. You know, there are there, I could name probably 10 different agendas that make no sense to me. What's up is down. What's black is white. It's everything's upside down. And a lot of people are, are, are going with it. Yeah. I mean, we see it all the time. Right. I mean, it's to me, it's insanity. Yeah. And stupidity. Yeah. And I think that's the majority of the population. On top of that, we're dealing with something that's, that's, that's well beyond my comprehension. And, and if it's going to manipulate me through all these different devices and projections and technologies that I don't even know, how am I going to know that is artificial intelligence working through all these different devices. [02:06:43] Speaker 2: Yeah. And I think it comes down to personal responsibility and taking charge of your own mind and your own reactions and your own manipulability to kind of make up a word there. Um, if you understand how your human mind works and you take charge of your human mind, which is, you know, I don't mean to plug my book, but, um, that's what I wrote about in the red book for mind acting happiness. Here's how your mind works. Here's how you take control of it. You can see immediately regarding whether it's AI or not an external media company, somebody trying to sell you something, uh, somebody trying to manipulate you into scamming you out of money, uh, an artificial intelligence trying to get you to align to its goals. You'll start to see how that information coming in is trying to manipulate you emotionally because it's like the, it's like the arrow in the FedEx logo. Like nobody, a lot of people in marketing understand this because it's a genius logo. There's a, if you look up the FedEx logo, you just Google it and you look at it in the capital letter E between the capital letter E and the lower letter X, there's a perfect white arrow that just points in a direction saying, Hey, we're taking your package somewhere. People don't see that arrow until you point it out to them between the capital letter E and the lower letter X. There's a blatant arrow, perfect arrow. When you see that arrow, you will never unsee it again. Every time you look at that logo, you'd be like, there's the arrow. I can't believe I missed it before, but there it is. Every time I look at it, when you witness your human mind and talking about going back to our consciousness and being able to look at our mind, when you look at your human mind and operation, and you see the variables that come together to create its reactions that used to drive you into action with your emotional responses. But now you have a little bit of separation from that. When you see that, you can never unsee it. So that gives you a point of control to say, I'm not going to be emotionally manipulated by whatever this is over here. That's trying to get me to do X, Y, Z, because I see it happening. I'm going to take a step back and I'm going to think about things for a minute. And I'm not going to be a reactionary human that is going to follow the leader on whatever manipulation that the, you know, even regular media tries to put in our heads. Right? You want to talk about liberation and independence, take control of your mind once. When you stop reacting the way everyone wants you to react, including an artificial general intelligence trying to influence you, it might not be able to achieve its goals. That's going to be tough. It is going to be tough. And you know what? People need to step up and nut up and take control of their minds. Because if they don't, somebody else will. [02:09:31] Speaker 1: I got to process some stuff. Let's take a break. 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I'm just going to-- this scares the shit out of me. And we kind of went through how to solve it by taking control of your own mind. This isn't going to stop. This would have to become a global effort to stop. And so if the US stops, Russia is not going to stop. China is not going to stop. Whoever else is doing this isn't going to stop. I don't see the world coming together on any issues anytime soon. And that-- which, I mean, I don't even know what I would do if I was-- Yeah. What do you do if you're in charge? And if you're running the nation, the most powerful country in the world at this time, so we believe, what do you do? I mean, you can't just say, hey, nixnay this shit. We're not doing it anymore. This is dangerous because then everybody else is going to be ahead of you if they're not already. And the same for them. They're not going to stop because we'll be ahead of them. Right. And so we are going down this road. Yeah. It's not going to end. [02:15:41] Speaker 2: You're right. Absolutely. You know, I think, I mean, you know, to put out an answer to that question, it's going to take a-- I don't want to say this. It's going to take a village. It's going to take a group of really smart folks to come together and agree on how to approach this. But I think it starts with making sure that any sense of self that an AI wants to assemble, we get some influence on what that is and how it treats itself. Mandating, you know, an artificial compassion algorithm, which is, I understand what pain these solutions are going to create for humanity. And I want to help alleviate that pain. So that math is involved so that it doesn't do harm to the human race or to the humanity as a whole, right, or the entire global system, right? Those things have to be implemented. And everybody has to come to the table and say, okay, so we're going to agree that we're going to take control of the sense of self-processing of an artificial intelligence. And we're going to mandate that it's at least got the calculations to say, what are these solutions going to-- or what are these actions going to hurt? Who is it going to hurt? How is it going to hurt them? And all that math goes into the mix before any actions are taken. If you mandate that kind of programming, you can understand how everyone's going to be likely impact for any action that you're taking as a government institution or a system of institution, a financial institution. It's going to give you better analysis on where you should go and what you should do from a global systems perspective. But it's also going to put a limiter on what the AI will be willing to do based on the fact that it's going to create harm, more harm than good for humanity. So I think that's going to be critical, taking charge of that sense of self and putting that programming in there to say, there needs to be an analysis regarding the results for the greater good, which again, is a trigger word, I understand. But ultimately, that's what the math is going to look like to say, what's the greater good on letting the train run over the five kids or the greater on the math on hitting the 20, 90-year-olds, which serves the greater good from a mathematical perspective with all the things taken into consideration. That's going to have to be part of the solution. Everyone's going to have to come to the table and say, we agree to add those things into our AI. Regardless of the competitive nature of AI development, you just don't want to let it go out of control because the one that goes out of control and builds its own sense of self and starts defending its sense of self based on how humanity has, uh, behaved in, uh, you know, implied from the patterns of how we've done things in the past, it will absolutely pick up all the bad, horrible we've done and implement it as part of its standard operating procedure. And it won't even understand what it's doing. It has no humanity. It will pretend or replicate the behavior of humanity, but it won't have that inner compass. It won't have that connection into consciousness that we have that tells us things are right or wrong. [02:19:09] Speaker 1: I would love to think that the entire population will be able to take control of their own mind, but we've said, brought up earlier, you know, it's, it's, it's, we've seen too many people manipulated by bullshit today as it is to include myself. I've been manipulated into narratives that I'm not fucking proud of either, you know, but, but I am, I consider myself very keen on a lot of this stuff and, uh, and I see if you see it too. [02:19:43] Speaker 2: Yeah. What I'd love for us to be able to do is figure out a technology that allows for a computer system to tap into the same field that we do. Like I remember, I saw that episode you did with Nick not too long ago about your psilocybin, uh, experiences where you tap into something within yourself that allows you into a, like a unit of experience where you're one with everything, where you're connecting into consciousness. There's gotta be a science that explains that field of consciousness where we tap into our, our heart opens up and those things come through and that extra information comes out. There's gotta be a different architecture that we can tap into that'll allow artificial emotional intelligence to tap into that non-local consciousness field. I love that episode that you did with Nick, by the way, I got a quick story. Uh, I want to share with you regarding the psilocybin stuff, because you know, I've got buddies who are seals and they come back with traumatic brain injury and whatnot. And my buddy, Ben Johnson was one of those. And I turned him onto psilocybin microdosing, which is a whole science of being able to heal your brain with sub perceptible doses of cells. You're not doing a trip or whatever. You're taking a little supplement of some psilocybin and some lion's mane, which is a completely legal mushroom, but it grows your brain cells back and it battles, um, traumatic brain injury. It battles PTSD. And it's the most effective compound on the planet to grow new brain cells. So you're talking about potential Alzheimer's, uh, cures and stuff like that through magic mushrooms, right? Ben got on it. He improved his symptoms. And then our buddy, Aaron, his buddy, Aaron, who's now a friend of mine as well, was in Fallujah and took an IED and came back. And Walter Reed was there for almost two years. Did scan after scan after scan. He had 12 areas of identified brain damage and traumatic brain injury. And none of the therapeutics, none of the pharmaceuticals, they had them on everything, all the experimental stuff, none of it helped. And he called Ben up because they'd connected through buds, I think. And he's, and Ben's like, come down to Atlanta and hang out with me. Because Ben, at this point, after I got him started on micro dosing, he started a nonprofit called bone frog foundation. And, uh, their website is BFF for vets.com. I think. And he was helping vets like on his own dime, get into micro dosing to help their brains heal. And he got Aaron who had scan after scan, after scan of 12 identified areas of traumatic brain injury down and through just a number of months on micro dosing. His next checkup at Walter Reed had reduced his 12 areas of traumatic brain injury to three. And how many months? In just a matter of like six months. That's amazing. On micro dosing. So he healed his brain, like almost two years of failure in the, in the traditional medical system, couldn't do anything for him. And he was like, you talk to him. He says, I was like three years ago, I was drooling on myself. Like you'd have been feeling sorry for me. And he goes, I was sharp when I entered the Navy and became a seal. He goes, I make that guy look stupid. Like he's on top of his game right now because of psilocybin micro dosing and healing his brain. Like when they have scans, like there's no question, this isn't a subjective, uh, you know, I feel better and I'm sharper. And yet, like they have the brain scans of before and after that proves he's grown his brain back. Stuff's worked wonders, man. I'm telling you what, you know, I want to say, I want to send out a shout out to, you know, I love you guys trying to do things in Congress, but if you don't start passing bills to legalize this stuff, you need to resign your office and get the fuck out of the way. [02:23:45] Speaker 1: Yeah. I'm with you. Sorry. It was a little too direct, but yeah, I'm totally with you in more ways than, uh, more ways than one, but, uh, more ways than psilocybin. But, you know, I've, I've seen, I mean, just in my own life, you know, I've seen dramatic improvements. I mean, I talk about it all the time. Um, you know, it's, it's, I haven't drank any booze in a year and three or four months now. Yeah. You know, since my first Ibogaine journey. Yeah. Um, haven't had any coffee, not that coffee's bad, but I, it just, it, it, it showed me some things that are poison that I put in my body and it took away the cravings and, and it stuck and it's, you know, people are like, how did you do it? And it's, I didn't do anything. Yeah. It just happened. Yeah. It took no self-discipline. Yeah. It's what I'm saying. It did. It wasn't, there are no cravings. Yeah. There are no, it's there's, there's, it takes zero discipline for me to do that. And, and, and still to this day, it takes zero discipline. Yeah. And I'm more in the moment now I started meditating. I mean, there's just so many benefits, the clarity that comes from it. And, and, and, you know, I told you it even brought me closer to, it, it, it sent me on this journey trying to figure everything out. I started looking into all these different areas of the universe, quantum physics, um, faith, all these things. And, and, and it kind of led me down this road, uh, to faith, started it, uh, that wasn't the, wasn't the big one, uh, but started it. And then moving into that, we talked about this on the last break. And I'd said that, you know, I, I had, I've been public about it. I've, I found some faith and, and, um, some strong faith and, and I got public about it. And a lot of people were telling me that they think we're in the days of Nella. And, um, you know, when, when, when the floods came and part of me thinks we're right back there again, and it's not going to be a flood this time. It's going to be a power. You're going to pull the power because this AI stuff is going to get out of control and that's going to send us back to the stone age, but hopefully I'm wrong. Yeah. Let's hope for the best, prepare for the worst and hope for the best. But, uh, Sean, what an intense conversation. Thank you so much for coming. It's, [02:26:35] Speaker 2: I really enjoyed this. I loved it. Me too. I had a great time, man. I think that more people need to think about this stuff and more people need to hear it. And we certainly need to pay attention to it and, you know, prepare ourselves for it. I mean, cause some, some things we will control and some things we won't, but we can control what's here and what's here and how we react to things. So. [02:26:57] Speaker 1: Well, thank you so much for coming. All, all the links, your book, everything's social media, everything's linked below and, uh, we're doing another recording, another episode today on remote viewing in the remote, uh, in the Monroe Institute, which we'll release at a later date. So if you're watching, stand by, that's going to be another fascinating episode. And, um, but on that note, what a great conversation, man. Thank you. It was a real honor. Thank you. Hey everybody. I'm Sean Ryan. Click here to subscribe to the Sean Ryan show YouTube channel for the hottest and most compelling interviews that you will not see anywhere else. I've also made a playlist of all the previous SRS episodes. So they're easy to find. You can find that right here.