Reform UK Influencer Debates Young Bob on Restore Britain - Full Live Debate

[0:00] heard that it was a split decision between going to what's the festival [0:04] called again the degenerate one I couldn't tell you of course he couldn't [0:09] yeah the carnival so it was a choice between that and going to this debate so [0:13] thank you very much for coming this debate will be split up into three [0:16] quadrants one a discussion about what it means to be British another about [0:20] whether we should reverse mass migration for remigration and whether restore [0:25] Britain is a serious vehicle for political change in Britain we have two [0:29] minute opening statements with a nine minute cross-examination and then from [0:33] there after which we'll have a Q&A where anyone can ask any basic questions [0:37] sound good to you great fantastic well I'll just because I'm not organizing the [0:42] debate and I invited my speaker here I'll let him have way for the first two [0:46] minutes on the discussion of what does it mean to be British thank you very much [0:53] everyone thank you for being here and thank you Bob for organizing the event [1:01] he's very kind to do so this motion says ancestry rather than citizenship should [1:07] determine who is truly British now it's important I say I believe [1:14] ancestry matters of course it does your history matters my argument is that [1:20] ancestry can't overrule every other factor to determine your own personal [1:26] relationship with Britain and it's also important I make it clear restore [1:32] themselves never explicitly say ancestry directly should define who is British [1:38] this is Bob's personal position not restore Britain's because if you take this [1:44] motion and you take it into real life let's say you have someone who was born [1:49] here raised here who's lived his whole life here who served 20 years in the [1:55] British army under this motion that man is not British but someone who lives a [2:02] thousand miles away from Britain who doesn't speak English who has no real [2:07] ties to Britain apart from one distant bit of ancestry under this motion that [2:12] person is somehow British and I personally don't think that's right and I [2:17] don't think that makes any sense at all I would agree that citizenship over the [2:22] past couple of years has been way too easy to get we need to do what reform UK [2:27] says and raise the bar to what it means to become a British citizen in this [2:32] country but it doesn't mean the bar should be impossible to earn I think if [2:36] you have come to this country and you have met these new high raised standards [2:41] your ancestry shouldn't permanently lock you out of British citizenship being [2:47] involved in the one shared British culture we all love and calling yourself [2:52] British thank you very much cool so I'll start off by stating one of the five [3:04] points that restore Britain gave to Nigel Farage and a potential patriotic pack [3:09] with restore Britain that is reversing demographic change a demographic change [3:14] obviously assumes that we have ancestry that we have a distinctive ethno genesis in [3:19] this nation so obviously restore Britain's political philosophy is that we've [3:25] advanced the discourse of what it means to be British it isn't just civic [3:29] values it isn't just some sort of a corporate nonsense that we push on to our [3:33] children but rather a collective legacy a group of people which civilized our [3:39] lands now the issue of the opposition is that his position leads to [3:43] epistemic circularity if we state that nationhood is simply based on a set of [3:51] cultural values and these values flow from a people so for example what [3:56] distinguishes Frenchness from Englishness because the French people [4:01] practice a certain thing within their geography and the English people practice [4:05] a particular thing within their own geography so culture is really a set of [4:10] behaviors practiced by a people no one's denying that someone can act in a [4:16] certain way in line with another group of people and this is why we say [4:20] language is practical I would actually say when on the discourse of what it means [4:25] to be British it is in deep contrast to the transgender discussion my debater and [4:31] opponent over there is going to argue on the same line of transgenderism which is if [4:36] someone looks English or if someone acts English that must mean their English what [4:42] I would suggest is in the discussion of transgenderism or migration we have to [4:48] introduce this principle of language when we say for example that Superman is a [4:53] man are we therefore going to assume that Superman is a biological male no but [4:59] rather language is practical I have no issue when you want to start winding up yeah I [5:03] have no issue with people observing people's behavior and saying that that [5:08] is culturally in line with our people however that assumes that there is a [5:12] people there to begin with but thank you very much we're now going to move on to [5:20] nine minutes of open debate I can't really see you okay I you know I think it's [5:26] very important we early off distinguish the difference between ethnicity and [5:29] nationality because I you know I agree with you on the transgender debate we're [5:33] we're completely aligned on that but nationality is different from ethnicity [5:38] I'm not saying if someone comes to England oh suddenly they've integrated now [5:42] they have English what does it mean to be British to be British I believe what we [5:47] need to do what reform UK says raise the standard to what it means to be a [5:51] citizen what does it mean to be British I think if you have a British [5:54] citizenship you're of British nationality we're not debating ethnicity we're [5:59] debating what does it mean to be British because the discussion is ancestry or [6:03] nationality what does it mean to be British now in that there's a part and [6:07] we can move on to that throughout our cross-examination but I think we make a [6:10] very pertinent point epistemically of what it is to be British in terms of [6:15] defining it as a nationality it is a nationality the same way Japanese as a [6:19] nationality but also Japanese as an ethnicity when I say that someone is a [6:22] British person what does that mean I I believe it is a nationality I believe if [6:26] you're English then that is your ethnicity but you are British that is your [6:30] nationality I want to ask one question very I think it's quite crucial point [6:36] what percentage of ancestry do you need to qualify as a proper British person well [6:42] any but the point the point is so one second [6:45] sure sure fantastic so the point is is that if you possess anything which would [6:50] tie you to the British Charles you therefore possess ancestry of the British [6:54] people which would make you British now obviously you can go into a [6:58] discussion of well that causes confusion right so for example you may have like a [7:02] Nigerian and British person who form a child and they may fall more into the [7:05] Nigerian culture and Nigerian heritage and call themselves Nigerian and under [7:10] your own definition you would terminate that and say well the Nigerian not British [7:13] but the point is the acts of Union in 1707 defined Britishness as Welsh English [7:21] Scottish and then later the acts defined it as the Irish people so there was a [7:26] famous article written by Swerver Brafman and she said I am not English I'm British [7:30] the reason why that doesn't work is because Britishness is a meta category [7:34] right doesn't really exist there's no such thing as Britishness it is simply a [7:38] category which has the umbrella of these different people so I'll ask you again [7:43] what does it mean to be British when I say for example Callum Barker in the [7:47] audience he is British what does that mean what am I picking out about this [7:50] person that makes him British well I think British absolutely is something it is your [7:56] nationality if you have a British passport you are a British citizen of this [8:02] country but I want to touch on what is it more meaningful than that so like for [8:05] example if I have someone who believes in child marriage who is a convict who [8:10] came from Somalia but he has a British passport would you consider that person [8:14] British that wouldn't be allowed to happen under reform UK but let's say on the [8:17] current system right under the current system if they somehow got a British [8:22] passport which I'd be very doubtful for considering they believed in that I [8:27] think fundamentally we need to respect what being a British citizen means we [8:31] need to raise that value if you are a British citizen you should be considered [8:35] British but I want to touch so you don't think British [8:39] I have answered you but I want to touch on British ancestry and the percentage you [8:44] gave there you're saying I just want to clarify for everyone that theoretical [8:49] example of a person being born here having no British ancestry but you know [8:55] you said they did you said that if this person has a small strand of British [8:59] identity that would make them British well obviously but they would be confused [9:03] in comparison to someone who has no British ancestry but loves this country [9:07] served in the British army for 20 years is born here their parents are brought from [9:12] here but let's say their grandparents immigrated here you're saying that [9:15] person you would say to their face he is not British that's I wouldn't but what I [9:19] said within my opening statement is that language is practical right so when we say [9:23] Superman is a man right do we actually mean that he's a human male obviously not [9:27] when you're on the street and you see someone who's transgender who has big [9:31] breasts and looks very effeminate and you call them a woman that is because they [9:35] correspond to the stereotype of what a woman is yes the issue the issue with the [9:41] position that Britishness is nothing but ethnicity or nothing but ancestry is [9:46] essentially reduces down to the transgender debate they look like [9:50] something they feel they are but then that assumes that there was a template of a [9:53] thing that already existed so can we can we at least agree right so before let me [9:59] ask you this question before we actually had any system imagine we're a [10:03] tribal people right and this goes for any nation but didn't have like [10:07] citizenship didn't have passports didn't have modern senses of travel and [10:12] they were just an ethnic group an ethnic tribe of people right you would have a [10:17] strict definition of what it means to be British that it corresponds to the [10:21] native people do we agree I but your thing is your your theoretical is illogical [10:27] no no it isn't because well it is it's a very it was very rare and you keep [10:32] bringing it to ethnicity to biology but the key part of a nationality is that you can [10:37] join a nationality Britishness is a legal definition to identify you with the [10:43] British nation but the point is is it a meaningful definition like I actually [10:48] actually tell you anything about the person but to be a citizen has been the [10:52] bar has been way too low for too many years under wrongful governments which [10:57] reform UK will fix but is your solution that's no one with British ancestry can [11:03] even attempt to get a British passport when you're a citizen it means that [11:08] you're doing it because it's edifying for the nation right this is the [11:11] Christian principle of the common good when it is handed out it is not depleted [11:14] right so when we talk about demographic security for example we should hand out [11:19] citizenship based on the underlying principle that the British people cannot [11:23] be replaced that the British people are a template for the people coming into our [11:27] land yeah and look for me the civic and legal definition of Britishness is quite [11:33] meaningless in a vacuum that's the point of what I'm saying I'm saying that you [11:37] can have all of these concepts right being a nationalist is the consideration of [11:42] all of these different things it's people it's religion it's geography it's [11:46] culture right but what you do is you take it in a vacuum you say well you know [11:50] it's just culture or is it just legality and you completely forget the people who [11:54] set the foundations of this very country well yes the British the original [11:58] British people created the British culture but the origin does not equate [12:02] to current membership it does not equate to someone joining that culture now [12:07] today you keep skipping my main point which is if you don't have ancestry here [12:13] you're saying no one without so if you don't have ancestry you shouldn't get a [12:16] passport what did I say you're talking about the vacuum but you're not [12:20] answering me no no what did I say before that you tell me I said [12:23] citizenship should only be out of the Christian principle of if if you hand it [12:30] out it should not be depleted so well they didn't agree to Rupert Lowe's [12:37] reversing demographic change and in fact it is a political impossibility for [12:43] having mass deportations and we must accept the political reality that Muslims [12:47] will be a majority in our own nation right but when Reform UK gets in and we [12:51] restrict the number of immigrants coming into this country that won't you still [12:55] have you still have the Boris wave you still have millions the next question is [12:58] going to touch on that a bit more when we talk about remigration but I just want to [13:01] bring it more to Britishness so we agree that you don't have to have British [13:06] ancestry to become to be have a British passport and in order to but it must be [13:12] only in the principle but it does not undermine the demographic security of its [13:16] people yeah I mean I agree I think we need to protect the people of this country we [13:22] need controlled immigration levels but very important it needs to be now is [13:26] that in line with Reform UK's a political philosophy absolutely they have gone out [13:33] and you see this countless times with either Reform UK pundits like Alex [13:38] Phillips saying that remaining my apologies you have Reform UK pundits like Alex [13:43] Phillips saying that this position is racist and it echoes the BMP you have [13:51] Nigel Farage saying that mass deportations hold on hold on hold on you have [13:55] Nigel Farage saying that mass deportations is a political impossibility and you of [13:59] course go on with Matt Goodwin saying that you can't campaign on this very [14:03] position the point is is that you're trying to sell that Reform UK would do [14:06] this without saying it but that assumes an underlying degree of not saying that [14:11] at all because you're again we're talking about does reform UK we're talking about [14:16] Britishness yes you're talking about this reform this reform is reform talk [14:21] about demographic replacement 10 seconds yes or no we don't prioritize [14:26] demographic replacement we prioritize the needs of the British people do they talk [14:29] about it no we don't we don't anyway you just said we prioritize the needs of the [14:33] British people which must mean the needs of the British people are not in line [14:37] with demographic replacement right okay so then why they're not talking about it [14:43] Jaden you respond and then we end it there so why are they not talking about [14:46] it if it's in the if it's in line with the British people why are they not [14:49] talking about demographic replacement because you're trying to pinpoint this [14:53] to ancestry when the whole point of this motion and what you're portraying but [14:57] why I don't care about whether I'm not in top in line with a topic I want to [15:01] ask you if it is in line with the will of the British people to not be [15:05] demographically replaced why is reform not running on that policy platform [15:09] because at the end of the day not enough people care about it restore Britain is [15:13] a minority in in the whole populace also so if it's not population do it right so [15:18] that the right wing have been running off but we're doing it anyway through our [15:22] immigration policy we're not gonna have one closing statements I'll go first [15:26] fantastic well the ultimate issue with reform and restore is that we mainly [15:33] agree with this idea that we should not undermine the British people by [15:37] importing millions of people however reform want to create this broad tense I [15:42] have no problem with this at whatsoever however it assumes a degree of trust you [15:48] must assume that this party will carry out this policy if they get into power [15:53] which obviously they're not doing and if my opponent allegedly according to his [15:57] Twitter he got vetted by Reform UK to actually speak on their behalf says but [16:02] they're not going to run on this because the British people don't want it but [16:05] it's very clear where Reform UK's loyalties lie thank you very much [16:09] everyone Jaden over to your one minute young Bob's very good at debating I'm [16:19] finding out but I want to put a clarification on my position I did get [16:22] vetted by Reform UK to come here today our immigration policy by pure [16:28] extension does what you want we don't run that as the main purpose of our [16:33] immigration policy because there are bigger problems with mass immigration [16:37] than simply the aesthetic of demographic replacement we want to keep our [16:41] Christian culture and we need to level out immigration in general the [16:45] fundamental principle Reform UK is pushing is that we need to raise the [16:49] standard of what it means to be a British citizen but very crucially it needs to be [16:54] possible to become a British citizen if you reach that high bar thank you so we now move to our [17:05] second motion Britain should reverse mass immigration through remigration so [17:11] Jaden went first last time it's called young Bob if you want to go first this [17:15] time yeah so my real point is that if you don't want to reverse mass migration you [17:20] might as well join the Labour Party as they are already reducing boat [17:24] crossing significantly which means that a right-wing party should not just focus [17:29] on the amount of people already being received into this nation but the people [17:33] being naturalized into our country according to the white according to the [17:37] white paper white people are the only people which are net positive contributors [17:44] to the United Kingdom every other ethnic group that we bring into our own nation is [17:50] subsidized by the government so you have an economic and also social impact when it [17:55] comes to migration the call is already from inside the house we already have failed [18:00] projects like Boris wave and the issue is is that reform are not talking about the [18:04] people inside they're only talking about the people who are coming in through the [18:09] boats and in fact reform in what they do they let label the boat migrants as [18:15] illegal invaders because they want to subvert the discussion on migration they're [18:20] technically legal they are using the UN Refugee Convention and the ECHR in order to [18:26] legally enact their rights as asylum seekers to come into our country so the problem is when [18:31] we talk about re-migration which is expanding the bandwidth to also include a subgroup of [18:37] legal migrants being deported well obviously if you don't you're going to have demographic [18:43] replacement thank you very much I give the West for my time over over to you Jayden for your [18:50] two-minute opening thank you very much so what this motion says is mass immigration must be [18:55] reversed through re-migration now I agree with the first half of that statement absolutely I think [19:01] mass immigration is I mean it was terrible I think the Boris wave arguably one of the worst things to [19:08] happen to this country in its modern history what we need to do is reform UK's solution stop illegal [19:14] immigrants coming into this country deport illegal migrants who are already in this country and tackle [19:22] the immigration numbers going uh going into uh the future now restore doesn't agree with that restore [19:29] thinks we need to go further we need uh re-migration the biggest part of their re-migration plan is to deport [19:37] legal residents for failing to integrate what does failing to integrate actually mean I've read their 113 page [19:48] deportation plan and nowhere does it define what failing to integrate means they start with the end [19:56] they say if millions must go millions must go okay fair enough but what millions who are you actually [20:03] talking about if you cannot define who qualifies for removal you do not have a re-migration policy [20:09] all you have is a slogan what reform are presenting is a clear politically able grounded [20:18] way to stop this mass immigration crisis without going into fantasy slogans and fantasy politics it [20:26] is the fair but strong thing to do and I believe that is the way we must tackle mass immigration thank [20:32] you thank you Jaden we're now going to go into our nine minutes debate okay cool so you said that we [20:41] can't re-migrate subgroups of legal migrants Matt Goodwin after he lost the Gorton and Denton by [20:46] election complained about sectarian voting and family voting yeah how would a reform UK government [20:51] resolve the fact that we have people in demographically replaced zones like tower hamlets not voting for [20:57] the interests of the native British people but rather voting on a platform with which Matt Goodwin [21:02] referred to in his book a suicide of a nation as like the sort of Palestine vote yeah no it's a terrible [21:08] issue and I'm not going to pretend it's a simple issue it's not I just don't believe that [21:14] solution is forcibly removing these people when you can't okay so how are we going to tell everyone [21:20] in Tower Hamlets not to vote for a Bangladeshi councillor who spends more time in Bangladesh you can't [21:25] control where people vote I think before before we actually do you think we should fix that issue [21:30] yes I think we should okay so how do you go about doing I will answer you but I want to ask you something [21:34] very quickly first so we can get it on the table because I think it's very important to define what [21:39] re-migration is can you give us a definition of re-migration literally comes in the um from the [21:44] root of the word which means re-migrate like mass deportations it's contextual to the person right so [21:49] most people like bogify the term and going to extreme men like Steve Laws and say you know [21:54] deporting everyone no we're just pointing out you know demographically replaced areas like Tower [21:59] Hamlets like certain areas of Birmingham like Gorton they need to be replaced and a lot of it's going [22:05] to be through self-patriation so for example I want to quickly read out the definition of [22:10] re-migration so everyone can be on the same page sure what's your source it's it's wikipedia okay so [22:16] you're going to use the wikipedia which by the way anyone can be an editor of wikipedia right [22:21] yes but you need verification for high level things it's I don't think you'll massively disagree with [22:27] this anywhere it refers to the ethnic cleansing via mass deportations of non-white majority populations [22:34] especially immigrants and sometimes including did I say that in my definition well no but I I prefer [22:40] wikipedia's okay so when wikipedia occasionally calls reform uk far right would you accept that [22:47] definition I personally don't accept that definition okay so why yes but their descriptions [22:51] on organizations and things are different from their definition oh inshallah wikipedia will save us [22:55] guys if a wikipedia you can disagree with because it's an incredible force there's a very similar [22:59] definition by the way this isn't just wikipedia I don't believe in ethnic cleansing right and even [23:03] the people but you believe even migration by definition is mass deportation okay it's mass [23:08] deportation right like mass deportations the word is contextual because it just simply means [23:12] and we're just failing to integrate me because the main part of restores deportation by the way when [23:17] you cited that paper you know funny enough that paper is only about the mass deportation of [23:21] illegal migrants people who come here five well I want everyone at home you can do it now [23:26] you can fact check him on this he's wrong because it says very clearly around we are I can read you [23:33] over the course of three years I have it in my notes yeah you're going to deport legal residents [23:41] who fail to integrate my question is what does it mean to be fair how to fail to integrate how are you [23:47] going to define who's deported it's including self-deportation methods so if you ban the burqa which [23:52] oppresses women if you ban the domestic production of halal meat if you ban mass prayer of foreign [23:58] religions what that does it creates a hostile environment for people who don't have the same [24:03] interests that we're in line with right now that's social policy by the way that's not a social policy [24:07] no but that's not that's a self-deportation method it's not for yeah it's self-deportation method [24:11] it's a so it's a form of remigration it's debatable but are you saying even even on that line [24:17] are you saying that's the only form of legal deportation restore britain is going to carry out [24:20] you know there hasn't been a legal migration document so you don't have a policy for remigration [24:25] one second you asked me about restores policy right and I want to reverse this back to the [24:30] initial question because you said that you would give the courtesy of answering the question after [24:34] you asked me one question now so far there's been three so how is reform uk going to resolve the fact [24:40] that matt goodwin cries about losing an election from sectarian voting they say it's a problem [24:44] in fact when farage was running up to his 2024 constituency campaign in clacton he was said that [24:50] he was extremely scared of muslim boys and you know the islamic community's ability to vote [24:55] how are they going to resolve that uh in in actually a very similar way which you talked about [25:00] in those social policies which you define which is banning the burqa for example fantastic so that's [25:06] a form of remigration right okay even if I mean again it's it's debatable dependent on your definition [25:11] wait all these muslims are legal sorry all these muslims are legal no these are legal immigrants [25:16] but we're not dragging them out of their homes what does banning the burqa achieve [25:20] listen I I understand what the social things it makes their life uncomfortable they need to [25:25] so they leave right they leave okay so that's a form of remigration because the islamic community [25:30] okay fine you can have even if you have all those all the bangladesh and nigeria and muslims [25:34] that's probably leave if you do that that's fine but I want to be very clear that restores [25:39] policy isn't just the social aspect of legal because they haven't released a policy document [25:45] on legal migration which is the main you're taking one migration you don't have a real policy [25:50] you only have a slogan the illegal um migration document which talks about the deportation of [25:55] three million migrants over three years which refers to the ops study that there's over 1.2 [26:00] million migrants who are visa overseers and failed asylum seekers if you take that that's probably [26:06] underreported due to the failed methodology you can extend it to three million so what you're [26:10] doing is you're citing a small subnote with an illegal deportation document then you're extrapolating [26:17] that to assume it's all legal migrants but you have to also understand my friend i'm reform i'm not [26:21] the green party i want to deport these illegal migrants you said that people like me i need to [26:28] speak on this we want illegal immigrants out you the fundamental illegal they're legal right i understand [26:35] the legal aspects as well through your social policies which reform agrees with the boat migrants [26:41] are legal sorry the boat migrants are legal well if they if they claim refugee status falsely [26:47] then yes how do you determine that when they're in the hotels they're being processed yes and we need [26:52] a higher standard of that how do you do that well we have we have uh actually i have i have i have the [26:58] rules um here there is going to be a good character test which will have a deep background check on [27:04] visa deception financial misconduct tax complaints criminal convictions so on and so so what if an [27:10] embassy just like provides all of these fake documents which they already do they're saying [27:14] a great guy because migration lawyers they'll just claim they're a raving homosexual they claim that and [27:18] they already do this legal migrations you can look at pakistan they already do this with student visas [27:23] they put money in their accounts then when they um receive these um tax searches they take the money [27:28] out and they pay these people to smuggle them into the country the problem is is that reform are doing [27:34] the bare bones basic for migration they're not properly thinking this through they have like [27:38] a nine page document on deportation and if you actually look at it for one more moment first of [27:43] all their projections of moving over 600 000 migrants within one part um within one year's unpractical [27:50] because they want to do it under the assumption they'll leave the echr and leave the un refugee convention [27:55] which they won't do in one parliament because they'll have a hung parliament and they don't even have [27:59] any basic explanatory policies which is for example setting parliament as sovereign so the problem is [28:05] reform aren't competent at what they're even going to claim they're going to do and what they're going [28:09] to do is just going to have the same wave and volume of migrants just through legal lenses because [28:16] they'll claim student visas they'll they'll claim workers visas like they already do in pakistan [28:20] and i do it under first we're going to cut down on those routes as well we are not a million miles apart [28:25] the fundamental difference is we're not going to be targeting uh the general legal like genuinely [28:32] legal residents because these are yes technically by law legal residents but they shouldn't be right [28:38] what restore britain is theoretically targeting is legal residents people who have come here legally [28:42] and do you think it's a good thing that we're targeting demographically replaced areas [28:47] that vote for candidates my question is how on earth are you defining okay regardless of whether [28:52] regardless of what one second one second before you're theatrical right because realistically we're [28:59] both two young guys talking about yes very conceptual things we are do you think that a political party [29:05] in the right hand side of british politics should seek a policy of reversing demographic change and [29:10] demographically replaced zones like tower hamlets in which they vote for candidates that spend more time [29:16] in other nations like bangladesh than they do in their own countries do you think that's a good policy [29:22] if it can be carried out but there's not a policy it's not the question yes or no do you think it's [29:27] a good thing to carry out a policy of reversing demographic change i i think we need a bit of [29:33] clarification on that term i think we need to go towards an uh a less multicultural state that's not [29:40] the question yes well it is i think it's a good idea that we don't have a bunch of muslims in gorton [29:45] voting for a green party that won't deport them but instead have trans rights which they disagree with [29:50] do you think it's a good thing i think people should have the democrat the democratic right [29:54] to vote for who they want to vote for even if i personally just test that well that's not true [29:57] because reform are going going to say to commonwealth it's illegal they want to get rid of the right of [30:03] commonwealth citizens to not vote so you don't want everyone else young bob just finish your thought and [30:08] then we're finished the problem is he's being hypocritical because reform are running on a policy [30:12] of saying that commonwealth citizens can't vote in elections so clearly you do actually believe that some [30:18] people should be exempt from voting one minute closing statements now listen again like i said [30:30] in the beginning i'm not going to pretend that this is a simple topic at the end of the day what he said [30:34] is true we are two young guys we're not head of the party we can't uh make these big immigration [30:39] decisions but fundamentally the difference between reform and restore is the deportation of illegal [30:46] immigrants i think we need to really protect that because it gets into a really dangerous area [30:50] fundamentally it does not define what it means what restore means by failure to integrate it does [30:58] say that they are going to deport genuine legal residents for failing to integrate because [31:03] deporting illegal migrants isn't enough apparently and i'm saying firstly it's a political impossibility [31:10] secondly more than that you need to actually have the policy you can't start at the end and say [31:14] millions must go millions must go these big buzz terms but not actually get into the legal logistics [31:20] of how you're going to carry out deportations of legal people and how you're going to define who [31:25] stays who goes it's a whole mess and reform uk won't get into fantasy politics thank you very much [31:34] well i would actually think that the right wing does have an imagination does have a fantasy of what [31:39] britain should be restored to i'd actually prefer politicians not to be sleazy what he's suggesting [31:46] is going back to the uni party where politicians can be sleazy outwardly not professing what they [31:51] generally believe but inwardly privately acting in accordance to their belief i don't want nigel [31:58] farage to jump around the bush and not talk about what we all want right i want demographic security [32:04] so if he has to say millions must go then we can get people to produce a policy based on that political [32:10] belief that is the more ideal situation and that is why people are moving towards restore britain [32:17] because we want to trust our politicians and in order to do that they must be very blunt in their [32:21] messaging but going on further when it talks about 10 seconds whether we actually want to deport [32:28] legal migrants some legal migrants we should pursue a policy of reversing demographic change [32:33] and ensuring we don't have sectarian voting or matt goodwin won't win the gordon and denton [32:37] by election which we all want guys right thank you thank you very much we're now going to move to [32:45] our third and final motion jayden if you'd like to open the debate okay the third and final motion is [32:57] restore britain are a protest party not a credible party of government and i agree now listen there's [33:04] no debate that restore have a very tight-knit group of passionate supporters i know it better than anyone [33:11] anytime i post anything on x ah you're brown you should be deported about 10 000 people even though i'm [33:18] half ethnically english but it's fine credit where credit's due you have shifted parts of the online [33:24] debate but key word there being online support is not the same as governing when you're in government [33:34] you need people real world people people with real political experience and the real infrastructure [33:42] up and down the country reform are already winning elections up and down the country controlling [33:49] multiple councils showing experience of us the governing uh locally we have high quality mps like [33:57] suella braverman councillors mayors and a national organization up and down the country with branches in [34:04] every part of uh the country rupert lowe have has admitted that restore is not ready to field thousands [34:14] of vetted candidates they're simply not there yet if you cannot field a government by definition you are [34:23] not a government in waiting there is no debate restore is definitely building a movement fair enough [34:30] but reform uk is actually building the next government in waiting thank you thank you jordan over to you [34:39] young bob so everything you just said apply to the reform party in 2024 and it holds to the same [34:48] standard the issue is is if we commit an internal critique but there has to be some sort of standard [34:54] in terms of infrastructure in order to take a party seriously then reform could have never got off the [34:59] ground and this is actually in parallel to reform's current line of attack on restore where they [35:04] originally were talking about moving towards a voting system of proportional representation [35:09] favoring small political parties they've now moved away from that rhetoric because under a first [35:14] past the post system they would achieve more seats which proves to me that they don't genuinely [35:20] believe in democracy as my friend over there was talking about when it comes to ending sectarian voting [35:25] but rather he's aligned himself with a political party for the sake of his own career and he's gone [35:31] to attack another right-wing political party for the sake of his political career now let me add that [35:37] restore actually have infrastructure we have over 250 branches nationally we are contesting now local [35:44] elections we swept great yarmouth in the local elections and we hope to when they of course reform [35:51] their councils in the next up and coming years rupert lowe already an mp i think that's a pretty good test [35:57] for a newly established political party as micro parties do exist and rupert lowe is by far the best [36:04] template of when it comes to feeding candidates in his inaugural speech of actually founding restore [36:09] britain as a political party he said that he would be fielding candidates who were actual [36:14] professionals in their fields we'll no longer have the political class for stooges that don't know what they're [36:20] talking about but rather people who are quite professional and nowhere else can we see that [36:25] with rupert lowe a man who gives all these mp's salary to local charities in the area beloved in [36:31] great yarmouth and he's not even local 10 seconds so in my closing remarks my opening statement i would [36:37] say that my opponent over here has to apply the exact same standards to reform uk a few years ago unless [36:42] he wants to support the tories which is all up to him but i fancy that a lot of people here wouldn't want [36:47] to brilliant thank you young bob so let's now move into our nine minutes open debates [36:55] quick no so i mean rupert lowe got selected by being a reform uk by funding his entire campaign [37:02] yeah because we were a small party and you're a small party now and i get your point i do i'm not [37:06] trying to be too hostile towards you every party has to start somewhere we're trying to so why did you [37:11] use the critique because fundamentally we're looking at it right now what you're basing it off of is your [37:16] personal we've got until 29. sorry we've got until 29. i personally disagree i think we're going to [37:22] have a but hold on one second one second very important because every single thing that rupert [37:28] lowe has said when it comes to standing candidates nationally has come with the presupposition that [37:33] he has to give the people an option for 29. and in fact before he even announced restore as a national [37:40] political party he said he would be looking to give the british people a genuine solution an option [37:46] for the 2029 yeah but he hasn't he hasn't guaranteed so my claim is that restore will be ready for [37:53] government and we'll have all of the infrastructure required by 29. no one's claiming that you can just [38:00] write a website up and you're a party in waiting no you're a serious party who actually wants to [38:06] build infrastructure like we're doing with all our branches your leader disagrees with you my friends [38:11] do you want to give a quote we are not ready to fill thousands of qualified candidates [38:16] we will need to see for that that's the local elections he hasn't got me you're you're that's [38:20] the local elections they were just formed a few months ago and he said we need to see for [38:24] uh the the 29 election now okay we will see you've just misquoted someone you've said that [38:30] we are not prepared to stand thousands of candidates wait one second because you just [38:34] lied and we're in a church and that's a sin you you just you use the tweet where you referred to we [38:41] are not going to see thousands of candidates planting the seed in people's brains that we're [38:46] actually referring to the general election now first of all he said that two months into restore [38:51] being founded as a political party he was referring to local elections and if my imagine if my memory [38:56] doesn't serve properly reform didn't stand in every single seat in the local elections and the [39:01] third thing being that well my apologies and the third thing being that he is preparing for 29 so you [39:08] misquoted something lied about the subcontext then went on to say something that actually proves my [39:12] point again you're you're wrong i don't i i will repeat myself for you quite happily yes he was [39:18] talking about the local elections he went on to say we need to see for 29 and that they're preparing [39:24] for 29 the difference is we all know reform uk will and is going to stand a candidate in every seat [39:30] you know without a doubt for 29 for restore britain it's still up in the air do you have a shadow [39:36] cabinet who's who's going to be like you need to shovel there's no such thing as a shadow cabinet [39:40] for a party that's not in opposition that's just a grift for reform for conservative and it's a name [39:45] on you know what i mean someone who's waiting to be just created us you've just created a standard [39:51] that's not that hasn't exist in british political history at all is there someone waiting to run the [39:55] nhs is there someone waiting to take over the home office we're we're slowly creating [39:59] spokespersons no there isn't it's rupert lowe and his gang of friends no no we literally have [40:04] spokespersons you have a trap but the travel for women's safety wait hold on we we have for defense [40:11] women's safety um travel right and these are all experts in their field right now we're slowly we're [40:18] going to be running as candidates confirmed by you well obviously i'm not part of right and this is the [40:23] difference right we are actually prepared we are right now but let's say there's a snap election [40:28] tomorrow reformer ready if there's a snap election tomorrow or restore ready but restore i've never [40:33] said that if there's snap election happens tomorrow we'd be we're arguing who's the more credible uh [40:38] political party no no the question was whether it was a serious party and my my claim is that and [40:44] he's looking for it now no i'm looking to the actual motion my friends restore britain are a [40:49] protest party not a credible party of government right now you are not a credible party of government [40:54] so you're prepared so if there's an election tomorrow you can you can personally guarantee [40:58] me that you're standing in every single you're making a claim that no one's ever claimed before [41:02] and restore that a snap election tomorrow we could stand i know but i'm asking you i'm asking you can [41:07] say no one's made that claim and i haven't either but i've said come 29 okay so let's let's let's slow [41:12] this down for a second let's slow this down for a second let's say this bit by bit you're saying there's [41:16] a reality where let's say there's a snap election in three months which andy burnham's called out so [41:22] you again they're doing that because they're losing in the but by the way if you notice last [41:26] year the last conference they said that we are preparing an election in 2027 now in the words of [41:32] jeremy clarkson they got that in the middle of their head because no one in government would ever [41:37] suggest that keir starmer or andy burnham wanted to call the snap election in 2027 they are doing that [41:42] because they fear that they will lose in the polls by that time which they already are they're polled at [41:47] 23 percent compared to burnham's 27 percent according to the paper which which shows to me [41:53] which shows to me that any standard that you apply when it comes to electoral viability when [41:58] it comes to infrastructure the same critique could be applied to reform say 2023 at 2023 [42:05] nigel farage wasn't even the leader or going to run in the political party okay i get that i need to [42:10] ask you i know you okay you personally don't believe there's a snap election you only think reform [42:14] andy burnham doesn't believe that and you're guaranteeing that he said it once and there's [42:18] lots of speculation there's speculation around uh the late party right now that there will [42:24] if you look at the media sources they're worried that burnham won't last and what media sources [42:30] i don't know this okay so go on google guys this isn't a memory i want to listen i just want to ask [42:36] two sources i want to ask you one question this is what i've been dying to ask you if there's a [42:42] snapper that theoretically if there's a snap election in the coming months which is not [42:47] impossible and you're saying there's a reality where maybe restore britain isn't going to field [42:53] in literally every single constituency in britain even if that was the case theoretically you would [42:59] still consider them a proper party ready for government a proper party they're not ready for [43:04] government right so restore britain are not ready for them right now so you're just saying i'm not [43:08] going to misquote you you do believe of course by 29 they will be ready i disagree but [43:12] fair enough but right now they are not ready for government i've got a question in 2023 were the [43:20] reform party ready for government sorry in 2023 was the reform party ready for government no absolutely [43:27] not we made it very clear that we're not okay so did you support reform uk in 2023 i did i want to [43:32] say very crucially nigel farage said repeatedly but they're standing in the election fair enough we're [43:38] not going to win okay so does that mean that they are a proper established political party do they [43:43] hold to the same standard then they weren't ready for government and nigel farage admitted himself he [43:47] ran on that ticket okay read the prompt out to the the people listening i'll read that again i'll [43:52] read that again for you and i'm going to ask you the question okay okay restore britain are a protest [43:57] party not a credible party of government premise one a party that is a protest party is established by their [44:07] ability to form the next government premise two you supported the reform party premise three [44:14] in 2023 reform were not and they claimed it themselves ready for government yeah conclusion [44:20] one therefore they weren't a serious political party according to your own standards which means [44:26] you just look silly i'm not saying they're not a serious you are a political party like i said you [44:30] are removed hold on what is the first sentence within that prompt that you've just read you are a [44:36] protest party at the moment okay premise one a protest party is established by its ability to [44:43] form the next government i i i understand what you're saying can you can you point out to me [44:47] anywhere within that syllogism that doesn't follow no that's fine and i will say here right now when [44:52] we were okay so were you silly when you supported reform in 2023 one minute remaining were you very [44:57] serious no we're not debating whether you should support restore purely because of this someone who [45:02] supports an unserious political party must be silly it's a being a protest party is a genuine role [45:10] within politics it's not so that that sort of terminates the first sentence within the prompt you [45:14] gave sorry it terminates the first sentence within the prompt that you know we're arguing restore [45:20] britain is currently a protest party not ready for government and i'm saying they're not maybe they [45:26] will be in future i personally think not but right now they're not ready for government that's what i am [45:30] arguing that is the final question i'll give you for the minute if they were ready for government yes [45:38] let's say they had a genie of the lamp and they wished for it and the next day they had thousands [45:41] of branches i'm with you would you support restore britain no i wouldn't because my personal ideology [45:46] is set with reform uk because people can have different political opinions i feel like by the way it's [45:52] a quick context i did not provide any of the prompts or the structure for this debate i just said [45:56] provide them right so come to the end of our nine minutes and that is the end of our three motions [46:03] so we're ending the debate with two minutes of closing statements jayden would you like to go [46:08] first sure that might listen we need to look at what restore britain is currently and they like to [46:19] big themselves up as this massive challenger to reform as the next government in waiting as they [46:26] personally proclaim when they're just not that right now young bob admitted it himself if there's [46:32] a snap election in the next couple of months restore britain isn't running at that same level as reform uk [46:40] and we have in reform uk experienced mps we have the national infrastructure is it impossible for restore [46:47] britain to ever get it no of course it's not impossible in time you know obviously i think that their [46:52] demographic niche is it is a niche ideology so it's much harder than what reform uk is pushing [46:58] theoretically possible right now and in the near future it is impossible it isn't going to happen [47:04] right now the most credible choice you can make for the next government is reform uk and i'll quickly [47:10] say thank you for young bob for organizing this debate hosting this thank you all for coming i think [47:16] we're doing q and a's after i'm not sure but uh regardless of our disagreements thank you thank you [47:21] jordan young bob all right so i want to critique the very nature of this debate i feel like it's all [47:30] smoke and screens whatever the saying goes incredibly autistic sometimes i forget but the point is is that [47:37] so far this discussion has been whether the ideas are practical whether the vehicle of change tomorrow [47:45] can be the next government but that's completely irrelevant to cite rupert lowe we don't need to think [47:51] of politics within a four-year cycle we need to think of it within generations as a farmer will inherit [47:58] his lands to his children and their children we need to think it's our nation as a farm as a piece of land [48:05] as a culture as a people that we all give to our children and their children will give to their children [48:11] and this is the issue with reform they're power hungry and they'll lie about everything [48:16] because all they want to do is sell you that it's just the boats that if we just leave the echr and [48:23] the un it'll be all fine however the call is an inside the house there are sectarian power blocks that [48:32] don't like us i've seen it i've been beat up by many of legal migrants who just want to beat me up because [48:37] they disagree with me and the final thing i would say is millions must go and four nations one kingdom [48:47] brilliant well thank you jayden thank you young bob for that debate we're now going to open it up [48:54] to the floor for a q a so if you've got a question you'd like to ask just raise your hand and [49:00] we'll have someone come and bring a mic to you i've listened to your debate with great interest and [49:08] certainly the early parts on on migration issues are fascinating but they are very very theoretical in [49:16] my opinion when it comes to the point of how you define people who you may wish to choose to remove [49:25] from the country fantastic so let's use religious communities right so this very church here how [49:33] would you establish this church well you you find a group of like-minded people you invest you find [49:39] business owners that want to attend that church this hypothetical building that doesn't exist and you [49:44] build it up this is how communities are formed now when we talk about pre-existing communities that [49:50] already exist there are essential key facets within that community that if we deem to be un-british [49:58] if we remove them they will leave now god forbid we ever remove a building like this it's beautiful [50:04] and grace of god it has so many faithful congregants however for example we have churches being converted into [50:11] mosques we have people that use religious articles of clothing to oppress women and if we remove some [50:18] of these key articles they will leave and in fact my opposition over there agreed to it so i would say [50:25] when it comes to the deportation of legal migrants because we've been a quite liberalized country as soon [50:31] as we get rid of these things as soon as we tighten it up a bit they'll begin to leave now obviously there's [50:37] other things like for example the over 10 000 foreign criminals in our prisons i'd want them gone [50:43] we already have this if you serve a sentence more than 12 months you'll be deported but some of them [50:48] like to claim they'll be persecuted back at home so they actually remain here so it's a very long [50:54] discussion i'd like to actually make a video essay on it however those are one of the few processes that [50:59] i'd use to actually remove certain subgroups of legal migrants i mean very quickly on that i feel you [51:06] slightly dodged the man's question because obviously we have already uh gone through that uh the the [51:12] the social policies you mentioned before which reform agrees with but we all know restore is going to [51:17] be forcefully removing legal immigrants of this country and you keep diluting it and directing it [51:22] it's not about defining these people i don't want to put like a massive like well we kind of do you're [51:27] going to be on their head well i just want to say that meanie miney moe it's just like no no no [51:31] no no the point is i gave him an example yeah but i'm asking how are you going to forcibly deport [51:37] legal immigrants what's the method because most of the time you don't have to so where a store isn't [51:42] going you're going against the party no no no you will but you don't have to chuck them in the back [51:45] of a van i'm not saying you chuck but like how you yeah fine but how what are you gonna do so if you [51:51] for example like i said when you have community builders when people build communities there are [51:56] certain key pillars that you can remove in order to assure they don't do it okay i i don't want to [52:01] take too long on this but we agree that i get that part of it and that's fine we we agree for the most [52:07] part but for the most part we do but i'm saying we agree restore are going to be forcibly removing [52:12] legal residents of this country and bring them back our way of life those who are in our prison systems [52:18] and those who claim benefits those are the three things that charlie downs the lead spokesperson right [52:23] and he also said and or failing to integrate as an additional and i'm asking those are the people [52:27] who hate our way of life right how are you going to blanket test everyone yeah fantastic you look at [52:33] certain things that are un-british that hate our way of life pressing women's good example i'm talking [52:39] about the you're talking fantasy politics my friend i i know it's a bit boring the burke's fantasy politics [52:45] again you're defaulting to the social things that is social but we're talking what do you mean [52:50] what do you think social is man right i get that point of it and i agree reform wants to ban the [52:55] burke as well okay but then you can just go beyond that so for example rescinding council's rights to [52:59] convert uh listed buildings like churches into but you keep all restore britain going to forcibly deport [53:07] legal migrants banning the burke yes how are they going to define what legal migrants stay and what [53:13] legal migrants go fantastic again so these three points those who are aware of life which includes [53:17] self-deportation methods those who are in a prison systems so if you're sent to prison you should [53:22] probably go back and people who claim benefits are people who take it more into the economy than they [53:29] take out okay one one last thing and i'm gonna move on what one one last thing really very specifically [53:36] here i get all of those points and i've read the paper and i've listened to uh what your spokespeople [53:42] say it's those things and or failure to integrate and when i ask you failure to integrate back to [53:49] this does does anyone else seem like i'm repeating myself here when i said we're going to move on now [53:54] their way of life it sounds like that is a good description of not integrating right but how are you [53:59] going to choose would you like to respond to what they've said yeah um thank you for the points of [54:04] clarity um if if i may say comments around prisons benefits economic activity makes sense um and [54:13] obviously people who are in prison you can capture them because they're already captured and take them [54:18] out of the country if that's what you wish to do equally benefit claimants they are identifiable because [54:24] they have to claim benefits but the rest of what you've said sounds rather like we'll sort of heat [54:29] the bathtub up and if we make it hot enough hopefully some of them will leave is that fair [54:34] well um i think it was a study done where they polled muslims and 48 percent of muslims would leave [54:40] under a reform uk government uh so if they disagree with the very sensible positions taken by reform uk [54:47] then assumedly um other self-deportation strategies would work and in fact the left are doing the work [54:53] for us because they like to vilify us so much that some of these people and i don't think this is a good [54:57] thing are incredibly scared and this is why i like discussions like these okay let's move on to the [55:02] next question thank you who's who you have this gentleman over here on the left hello um so first [55:14] thank you for coming to debate this topic uh it's very nice to see young people uh involved in politics [55:20] and passionate about politics um so i have two questions one is for the first motion the others for [55:27] the third i believe so um for the first motion you know i do think you're talking about two [55:33] different things because there is a difference between being british and being english you know [55:38] english is a nation british is a set of nations as you said uh in your closing statement bob you know [55:44] four nations one king so it's a different thing also you have to understand the history that the british [55:52] empire expanded half around the world and it by colonizing these places it did actually make them [55:59] citizens so they had british india for example you where i don't agree with this what that they did this [56:06] but it's a fact that they did it the only reason why people like kemi bedenok and rishi sunak can say [56:13] they are british of or from this country is because of that history so would you support uh [56:22] that argument and also if you support uh nationalism do you also support nationalism for [56:29] wales ireland and scotland in fact i would use the second question to prove the point that when [56:36] some of the members of my opposition suggest that um so british culture is univocal that uh you know [56:43] britishness just simply composes of uh you know queuing that if you speak to a welshman of what it [56:48] means to be welsh and if you speak to an englishman and what it means to be english you're going [56:51] to get different things and in fact one of the things i like about this united kingdom is we're [56:55] not really united we have a lot of things that make us different so i'd say the second question [57:00] sort of proves the point that it's beyond just these corporate values that we're taught that [57:05] yes we we should be respectful of other people's belief system but that is not the totality of what [57:09] it means to be british now when it comes to the first question you actually point and uh to a real [57:16] issue that happened in to the decoupling of the british empire which is once we gave up the [57:21] territories and we formed the commonwealth we called all of these people british when they [57:25] had their own sovereign countries which means they could come over and and this is sort of the project [57:30] that we see after the second world war where we had to completely redefine what it means to be british [57:36] and this is what margaret thatcher attempts to do when we make a distinction when it comes to overseas [57:42] territories and obviously people who are born in the mainland so it is very messy and tricky situation [57:49] however i think we can clearly identify when someone's from india or whether someone is from [57:55] mainland britain now they could have been a subject at one time of the british empire but that doesn't [58:01] therefore mean they're part of the united kingdom do you want to respond yeah i would agree but so i [58:08] would say to make it less messy and less tricky we just do away with this idea uh are you british and [58:14] we just say are you english or are you scottish or are you welsh the thing is right the reason why [58:20] within my opening statement i pointed to this being a bit of a transgender debate is that when the left [58:26] begun to alter the definition of what it means to be british we have to overly focus on it i thought you [58:31] just said margaret thatcher did that of course she did so it was on the left no okay i mean in modern [58:37] times obviously we have a historical issue of defining legally the term but i mean within the [58:43] current modern day like sort of contemporary right-wing politics while we're making these [58:46] divisions on the right and that is because as soon as you sort of modify a basic definition of the term [58:52] and you can liberally use it practically within society you have to overhaul the actual discussion [58:58] brilliant has anyone got a question for jayden oh i was gonna jayden do you have a answer to that yeah i [59:05] mean i think and when you talk about uh you know i've heard you bring up the transgender debate as [59:12] as a link to this um and i get where you're coming from of course i do uh but again i think i think it [59:17] mixes the wrong things between english and british of course i'm not you know saying that if you come [59:23] to this country suddenly you become magically ethnically english but i think a very important pillar of [59:29] this country and you know pretty much every other country in the world is that if you come to the [59:33] country and you meet the high standards of what it becomes what it means to become a citizen you [59:37] you know you love our country you integrate you do what reform uk is saying in terms of the salary and [59:42] expectations and all of those laws as well i don't think your ancestry should permanently lock you out [59:48] of becoming a citizen of the country i think we need to really focus on raising the standard of what [59:54] it means to become a citizen of this country and really begin to promote that one uh unifying british [1:00:01] culture again rather than having this ultra ultra focus of ancestry where theoretically someone a [1:00:07] thousand miles away with a little bit of british ancestry is more british than could i not be saying [1:00:13] you're taught that if if britishness is a culture that if a somalian that lives in somalia likes queuing [1:00:20] he's british yes but that isn't the standard to become a citizen well i'm not talking about citizenship [1:00:28] because we're talking about nationality do you believe that british is strictly a citizenship [1:00:33] it's a nationality is it strictly just a piece of paper well is it reducibly just whatever you have [1:00:39] a form uk wants to do is raise this i'm asking i don't care about the jargon about reform i care [1:00:45] about you it's my personal okay okay don't refer to reform refer to yourself well i agree okay fine [1:00:50] reduceably just a paper it's to be a british citizen you need to have a british passport okay so if someone [1:00:58] is indigenous from to this land but forgives their british citizenship and lives in somewhere like [1:01:04] somalia are they no longer british so if they're ancestrally a hundred percent british but they've [1:01:12] now moved to somalia and they've given their british citizenship they no longer have a british [1:01:15] passport they no longer have anything to do legally with this country they're fully legally considered [1:01:20] somalian it's a very weird it's such a weird theory i will try and answer it seriously i will [1:01:27] just say yes or no then it's not really but it's such a we're talking about such a serious topic here [1:01:31] and he goes to the most extreme 100 percent british ancestry transported i know you haven't really [1:01:38] engaged in a long thought out dialogue but it's called consistency so like whether when we take [1:01:44] your position to the extreme end is it consistent i i believe that person would be ethnically would you [1:01:51] call them british i mean yes i mean if they're ethnically english then they are part of okay so so [1:01:57] okay so a composite and i'll end up on this and we can continue with the q a if britishness is a [1:02:03] composite of englishness scottishness welshness and irishness then how on earth are you getting to [1:02:10] this position that's someone who just obtains a british passport is british because they're not made [1:02:15] of that composite they're not made of the parts that constituate the whole right because to be a [1:02:20] citizen you would raise the bar to be a citizen and if you reach that bar you should be did you notice [1:02:24] what i tell you yes if someone who has no british passport if you can have two things be true at [1:02:30] the same time there can be nuance in this debate of course you can have a because one definition [1:02:34] that you're giving eliminates the other no it doesn't because you can have you can be of english [1:02:39] ethnicity be you know ethnically english but also be british but be ethnically nigerian but the point [1:02:46] is is that if you're using one definition for the word unless you're recognizing a distinction no but [1:02:50] british okay what we what the motion was is someone ethnically english equally british to [1:02:56] someone who has a british passport let jayden respond and then we're going to move on i think [1:03:00] what we need to prioritize is someone equal don't listen this is very important this is the last [1:03:04] question on this topic is someone who possesses a british passport equally british than someone who's [1:03:10] ethnically english in terms of britishness not ethnically not being ethnically english no british [1:03:16] right yes they are both equally okay but that just doesn't work under i don't like two tiers of [1:03:20] citizenship any other questions all right i'd like to ask say there were a child of indian [1:03:28] heritage born to two indian parents born here firstly do you agree that they should not be [1:03:33] deported based on that and if so what should their legal status be if not a citizen i would [1:03:38] need to have more knowledge about the person right it's not just like as some people on x suggest [1:03:44] indian deport however i would apply the principle of that if this person possesses citizenship [1:03:51] do they undermine the demographic security of the british people say they're raised here they've [1:03:56] gone through the british school system they've adopted british cultural values do you give them [1:04:02] citizenship again do you call them british nice story really it's great american dream in britain [1:04:08] fantastic but i need to know more things about them and i need to know the state of the country in [1:04:14] which i can issue them a citizenship but can that person in theory get british citizenship again apply the [1:04:21] principle will this person because you're speaking about one person in the vacuum this is why i don't [1:04:24] like um the sort of questions of this like one ambiguous person because i don't know enough about [1:04:29] them is that person when i issue them the citizenship of that person does it undermine the demographic [1:04:36] security of the british people say it doesn't would you then say that you're then allowing person or [1:04:43] indian heritage no longer in a dire strain but say we begin and it's it's almost like a [1:04:50] like a monitor right let's let's say the uh monitor goes red and we bring in too many people or these [1:04:55] people are causing us problems so for example where's the definition where's the line but where's the [1:04:59] line yeah also for example now we're projected to be an ethnic minority by 2060 that's the most um [1:05:05] conservative estimate so so especially in india and pakistan we should not be issuing these people [1:05:11] um visas if for example they're not accepting their visa over the stairs or they're not accepting the [1:05:17] deportation of grooming gang leaders that's all even if it's a high-skilled immigrant that brit [1:05:21] britain needs i don't i don't care if your nation produces a high-skilled worker if you're not [1:05:26] accepting grooming gang leaders we should not be accepting one single pakistani right let's move on [1:05:34] next question firstly thank you both of you for the debate it was really interesting and very [1:05:39] thought-provoking i was going to ask a question for bob um in light of some restore britain policy [1:05:44] such as banning kosher slaughter i was wondering should british jews trust restore britain absolutely [1:05:51] i mean if for example you take the angle um of restore britain's domestic production i mean you [1:05:58] can just source it elsewhere the problem there's two schools of thought right within restore britain [1:06:04] one being the domestic production of kosher meat being banned because it's actually more unhealthy for [1:06:10] you so there's an oxford study done and actually shows that the increased cortisol caused [1:06:14] by it not being stunned it's actually more unhealthier so i don't think we should have [1:06:18] kosher shorter in this nation now is it because it is a jewish or muslim practice no but it's because [1:06:23] it's unhealthy and it's barbaric thank you has anyone got a question for jayden yes this gentleman here [1:06:33] you keep saying that nationality and ethnicity are different that is that is historically wrong [1:06:39] nationality comes from the latin word natio natio means to be born of an origin or a tribe [1:06:43] in fact it was only the 19th century and up until the 20th century where people like hans khan in [1:06:48] 1944 changed nationality to be split between civic nationality and ethnic nationality that is a new [1:06:55] idea in the last 90 years which now defined us by a set of values rather than our blood to this land [1:07:01] my ancestors have been here for thousands of years i know that you're mixed but half your family has no [1:07:06] ties to this land so how can you claim that somebody that has zero ties this land on this idea of [1:07:11] nationality which doesn't exist it's just like saying well you're a cis man and you're a transgender [1:07:16] man no you're a woman you're a man you're a set thing you cannot change it based on this new word [1:07:21] so how are you saying that anybody can be the same as me even though they have no ties here through this [1:07:27] brand new word that you just made up well firstly thank you i i didn't actually know that origin is quite [1:07:34] interesting uh but like you say uh very importantly it's not how it works anymore every developed [1:07:41] nation on earth abides by this standard where you can be ethnically from a place and you can come to a [1:07:47] nation does israel apply that standard i i believe every developed nation yes stands on did you think [1:07:54] every single nation if i got to can i can i can i can i get um a north korean passport i don't define [1:08:01] north korea as developed personally that's not but you said every nation like your whole argument's [1:08:05] very nitpicky i'm talking you know be a bit mature about the debate but you're just saying everyone [1:08:09] does it so therefore we should do it i didn't say that's that's that's that's the fallacy of [1:08:12] presentism my friend at some point we could say everyone killed babies let's do it everyone marry [1:08:18] children let's do it i said every developed nation quite clearly that is not every nation on earth [1:08:25] i think it's very important that a nation can accept people into the country that are not ethnically [1:08:33] from from there or have ancestral uh backing like i say i sympathize uh with uh the problem i think we [1:08:40] need to raise the standards of what it means to be a citizen much higher to what reform uk is proposing [1:08:44] we need to actually make british citizenship mean something again um but to have this uh to have [1:08:50] ancestry have this final veto over every other factor of what can make you british if you integrate [1:08:57] into the british culture if you love uh britain if you work here if you've been born here if you've [1:09:02] raised here if your life everything you've known is british i think the the logical and reason thing [1:09:08] to do is you should have every right to call yourself british as long as the legal things are in [1:09:12] place yeah but again this argument is just the transgender argument because again what you're saying is [1:09:16] it's a progressive society so we must now accept these new words what you're again doing is saying [1:09:21] it does not matter about any form of biological reality instead it's nothing to do with the fact [1:09:26] that my family's been here it's to do with what you believe that you are so if somebody raises [1:09:30] themselves as a woman for 20 years by your logic well then they are a woman because that's all they've [1:09:34] known that's just wrong they are not going to be a woman again also as well can i can i ask for sure [1:09:39] please um if every every single developed nation currently has a form of transitional surgery and [1:09:45] recognizes someone's uh read every single developed nation currently accept that if a man identifies [1:09:53] as a woman they are therefore a woman do you agree with that practice so sorry just repeat that last [1:09:58] bit you said everything jayden respond and then we're going to move on so ask the question again jayden [1:10:02] respond every single developed nation has a concept of gender reassignment surgery yeah that if you [1:10:08] identify as a woman therefore you are a woman do you agree with that practice and if you don't [1:10:13] does that mean that just because a developed nation commits to that practice it's therefore consistent [1:10:18] ethical or correct i don't agree with that individual practice no but i agree with what i'm saying [1:10:24] here i like that you've used the fact that these developing nations do it to justify it which i've just [1:10:31] done there well no i just clarified that one that's if a nation does something doesn't make it [1:10:36] automatically correct of course not but again that you're you're kind of dragging it into english [1:10:42] ethnicity no one can suddenly magically become ethnically english i'm half ethnically english [1:10:49] sorry someone's equally british regardless of their ethnicity yeah because british is a [1:10:55] nationality which you can join regardless that the british people next time you debate this i feel [1:10:59] like you should set out a separation between the two and you define what debate well no but we are [1:11:04] clearly debating the nationality we're not debating can anyone become ethnically english we're gonna [1:11:09] move on any other questions i hope it's all right i've got one question for each of them great i love [1:11:16] the tie by the way i beg your pardon i love the tie oh thank you it's my favorite color birthday present [1:11:21] anyway uh bob i'm i'm very interested in the uh the obsession around ancestry and lineage that you see and [1:11:32] restore britain supporters as well on the internet i suppose i'm interested in what the practicality [1:11:39] from now looking forwards into politics and policies and what governments can do i'm interested in how [1:11:51] restoring can i answer the first part of your question i've got a bit of a stutter it's all good [1:12:00] it's all good but could i just ask quickly the first part of your question yeah i think it's very [1:12:04] it's very crucial i am not i do not overly focus or obsessed with ethnicity in the same way that [1:12:10] someone who debates transgenderism is not obsessed with your private parts i simply like calling out [1:12:16] truth i think that when someone undermines something that is objectively true you should talk about it [1:12:23] would i want to talk about people's ethnicity for the rest of my life absolutely not practically as i [1:12:30] said to you before if you're walking on the street you're not going to whip out your ancestry test to [1:12:36] ensure that this person is pure the point is is that as soon as you say that well a nation does [1:12:42] not have a people that's when we have to begin to recapture these institutions and establish that [1:12:49] as a core principle when it talks about migration you notice the thing that i said to the gentleman [1:12:53] over there that i believe in issuing citizenship as long as it does not undermine the demographic [1:13:00] security of the british people which means that if there's any foreigners in this building [1:13:06] i am not saying they should be dragged out of a van and immediately deported i am simply saying that [1:13:11] there are groups of people in their millions that exist here today in britain that undermine that [1:13:16] security undermine our safety and don't believe in our same values yeah sure i i don't think that [1:13:27] uh well when we talked about britishness it kept coming back to ancestry that's an important topic i don't [1:13:33] think it's a political topic i don't really don't translate into a political issue i beg your pardon [1:13:40] it can translate to a political issue everything we're talking about when it comes to britishness i [1:13:44] mean look at it now we've been taught that there's like five core british values which is obviously [1:13:49] absurd and again the nurse from britishness derives from the people and their practices [1:13:57] this is not something that should be mandated by government but just a naturally observable phenomena [1:14:02] right like a foreigner can enjoy fish and chips but it doesn't make them english that that's just [1:14:08] the point i'm pointing out now they're acting like us why are you pointing that out why does it matter [1:14:12] because it's true it's true yes it is it's irrelevant though if a man it's irrelevant to fixing the [1:14:17] welfare system in the nhs i don't think it matters it's just the point listen i would not want to be [1:14:24] talking to you about this if i didn't have to but just simply saying someone who's never been here [1:14:30] enjoys a fish and chips they're not english in the same way that if a person wears a dress they [1:14:35] are not a woman magically fine but the person who wears a dress still has testicles they're still [1:14:39] exactly and the somalian who likes fish and chips is from somalia right do you see my point i do see [1:14:48] your point and is it incredibly offensive or does it hurt someone when i say that no okay and i want [1:14:55] everyone to think about me i just think the 2016 culture war everyone was saying why are we talking about [1:15:00] men in women's dresses it sounds ridiculous because there are genuine people that believe [1:15:06] that if you wear a woman's dress that makes you a woman there are now today people that exist [1:15:11] that if you believe you like fish and chips or you like being patient and queuing when you're talking [1:15:17] about someone who's not ethnically british but they were born here they've been through the school [1:15:20] system they've i don't know they go to church possibly they've got english friends i don't think that's [1:15:26] as surface level as a man wearing a dress so i i don't think your transgender comparison is is [1:15:33] well well it is when it comes to more absurd examples when you take it out the face of it [1:15:38] right oh yeah of course there have been people even his friends when making videos saying that [1:15:42] britishness is defined as queuing my friends there are people within the reformed tents that have said [1:15:49] that right let's move on to the second question yeah don't call that jaden something a policy that or [1:15:56] something that rupert lowe has said for on behalf of restore britain restore britain that i do agree [1:16:01] with is the immigration red list so to speak that is the grooming gang investigation found that [1:16:12] it was what was the number 70 or something like that of convicted uh child molesters and what have [1:16:19] you people involved in these gangs are from pakistan therefore we need to either completely cut off [1:16:26] or have more security around people coming in from pakistan is that is that is that something that [1:16:30] you agree with not just pakistan obviously yeah yeah no i i get what you mean yes i mean what reform [1:16:35] what reform's position on it is i mean we haven't defined it as a red list has restore has i think [1:16:40] their work on that personally has been very good credit where credit's due again um but yes i think [1:16:45] limits are really ramping up the security when it comes to these uh countries which we have studies on [1:16:52] consistently we have those type of people coming in i think it's very important we we limit that and [1:16:56] look at that but you know again like most things restore has a very nice marketing word for it reformer [1:17:03] actually looking into the details and legality of it and seeing if what is actually nine page document [1:17:08] versus 131 page document on deportation and we're just focusing on the mantras guys we we have more [1:17:14] than that but on the restoring justice document it's nine pages we have more documents on our immigration [1:17:21] policy but that that sets out the projected models of the amount of migrants you're going to deport [1:17:27] yes and we have other um other papers name them i don't know the names of them no have you read them [1:17:32] i have uh i've read some of them i haven't read everything about it so you can't name the things [1:17:37] that you've read i don't know the title i didn't know the restoring justice uh title of the paper no [1:17:45] so if i read a book i know the title of a book right sure but okay so what are the title of the [1:17:50] papers surrounding deportations within reform i don't i don't know the titles of the the [1:17:55] deportations i don't know that but that's not what the debate's on the thing is we do have at [1:17:59] the actual well it's not a legal detail i mean i have ability and you know actually knowing talking [1:18:04] about it's very crucial but jayden if you want to respond and then we're going to move on um no i [1:18:10] yeah and i think fundamentally i i agree um with what restore is doing i think it just needs to be [1:18:16] carefully looked at um in terms of international relations as well we need to take the mature [1:18:21] uh political approach to it but um yes do we need to take a mature relationship with pakistan [1:18:26] refusing to accept grooming gang leaders we always need to take a mature political uh response [1:18:32] internationally regardless if it's should we not just say we're going to sanction you unless you [1:18:36] accept these people well yeah why don't we bomb them while we're at it you know it's i get i get [1:18:41] you're coming from a good place which is why i don't want to attack you on this no no no but you're [1:18:44] saying it's not i think most of the british people do not care if we have to sanction pakistan [1:18:48] we don't want these people in our country right once i yes yeah but we have to actually and the [1:18:52] fact that this guy's the thing is with reform it shows they genuinely don't have the passion of the [1:18:57] spirit of what it means to be a right-wing nationalist because you're saying oh god forbid you say that [1:19:02] or suggest that on the internet it's hardly practical it's not the astute of a i'm just saying [1:19:07] we're talking about deporting leaders of grooming gang uh grooming gangs and you're just saying it's not [1:19:13] practical and you have to be mature about things you should not say i'm saying i agree you should [1:19:18] not be immature about denying the deportation of leaders of grooming gangs right and jay did the [1:19:24] last word and then we're going to move on and i agree with the deportations of it what we're talking [1:19:28] about is the democratic relationship we have with for example uh pakistan itself that needs to be [1:19:34] properly uh thought out but i agree with the end goal it's just i believe restore have got there [1:19:40] without the actual what implications have that have that actually got but i i agree with the end goal [1:19:45] yes so can you put everyone who wants to ask a question raise your hand let's just see how many [1:19:50] people we've got left okay one person per speaker basically what we're going to do is a quick fire [1:19:57] round so keep your question short and sweet and i want both you guys to also keep your answers as short [1:20:03] as possible and we're going to rattle through these as quickly as possible i would like to ask [1:20:08] uh both of you a question regarding clarification for what should and would be done regarding [1:20:15] individuals in britain who cannot and or refuse to speak english would restore deport these people [1:20:21] would reform deport these people and how would they go about it really succeed guys yeah they're [1:20:26] gone okay jayden it depends if they have a british passport or not again you can't knock on [1:20:33] everyone's door and ask if they speak english my friend no okay next question oh it just it just [1:20:42] it depends on whether they have a passport or not sorry jayden just a quick question if all the [1:20:48] ethnically english people were to be replaced by those say by your definition of british say japanese [1:20:56] people with british passports would england as a nation cease to exist as a nation it wouldn't cease to [1:21:04] exist but we cannot let it get there we cannot let it get there it's a that's that's a very important [1:21:10] crucial um state but as as a nation there's no legal illegally can i quickly modify the question [1:21:17] no no we're going to move on next question is there no one on this right hand side okay go over to the [1:21:25] left side we'll work back up on the left hand side um yeah so um sorry how do i word it do you [1:21:36] actually question for both of you do you think there are any circumstances where a foreigner ought [1:21:42] to be entitled to refuge or any kind of benefits from the british states um i mean not in the current [1:21:53] reality of britain absolutely not as a christian if we have demographic security we could look and we're [1:22:00] already doing it now with the funds that we give to charities across the world helping the persecuted [1:22:06] church however we we are currently not in a charitable state as our nation where we can accept these [1:22:12] people so we'd have to reassess as soon as we have that democratic security uh reform would not give [1:22:19] any sort of uh government benefits to any foreign national whatsoever i think we do need a genuine [1:22:25] refugee system but it cannot be clogged uh with people pretending to be refugees we need a genuine [1:22:30] tight-knit system sorry i i didn't mean foreign national i meant foreigner as in they've immigrated [1:22:36] here even though they're nationally british do you think they still ought to be entitled to [1:22:41] benefits for any reason no okay and what about refuge we should have a refugee system that's genuine [1:22:48] can you make you have a genuine refugee system no we don't we have so many people faking to be [1:22:53] refugees who aren't coming from well how'd you just prove that you got gaydar sorry yeah these people [1:22:59] mostly claim they're part of the lgbtq plus community you got gaydar yes but a bit of common [1:23:04] sense my friend we know these people are the majority just middle-aged normally we're working [1:23:09] aged do you don't think there's middle-aged gay men that exist i don't even guess your major point [1:23:15] here but the like the thing is they've come you can say things that sound nice but they're not nice [1:23:19] and they're not practical right we're gonna move on to the next question sorry can you make an argument [1:23:24] for why britain owes refuge to anyone else in the world uh i'm a christian i think we should try and [1:23:33] help others where we can we shouldn't kill ourselves and sacrifice our own nation for it but i think where [1:23:39] possible where we can i think we should always look to help people who are in need of genuine help [1:23:43] brilliant right who's who's next yeah i had one more which was just uh to both of you um so [1:23:52] seeing as british politics has taken a rightward turn i mean we could argue about your definition [1:23:58] of that i define it as uh laissez-faire free markets uh unregulated capitalism and kind of an aristot [1:24:05] aristocratic elitism basically so seeing as the right got us into this mess uh why do you still why do [1:24:14] we have two people here arguing about who's more right wing um and on that the question would be [1:24:20] would you do a deal with the tories if you could i'll answer that question first i i i i i'm sort [1:24:27] of a christian when it comes to restoring that i take the spirit of the law and not the law itself [1:24:32] i take the spirit of what restore is and not the actual law of it i did not take what the factory [1:24:39] right rupert lowe says is gospel but rather what it actually means to restore our nation and restore [1:24:45] accurately represents a broad tent so where you may have someone like charlie down to [1:24:49] would probably more accurately represent a sort of christian redistributionist model of economics [1:24:53] from the sort of brief things that you said throughout your speeches about economics [1:24:57] so you know the very ends of that spectrum when it comes to sort of thatcherite economics [1:25:03] and what i do will deal with the tories no i wouldn't do even do a deal with reform because i think [1:25:07] people hyper focus on the need for a deal when it practically already happens so for example during an [1:25:13] election people will run paper candidates when they're not winnable so like i'm assuming come [1:25:20] the great yarmouth campaign for the conservative party and reform they won't have as many people [1:25:25] running to that election because it's not winnable so i don't really need to see besides from backdoor [1:25:31] channels to actually work with these people brilliant who's next i think jane will need to [1:25:40] i'll be i'll be very quick i think the conservatives weren't truly right wing i think they had a lot of [1:25:47] centrist policies especially with the coalition with the liberal democrats and they rose tax to [1:25:51] all-time highs they rose immigration to all-time highs these are left-wing uh policies would i do a [1:25:56] deal with the tories i'm not going to give you a bunch of marketing jargon and you know toe the party [1:26:01] line here if it's a difference between a left-wing coalition government or a right-wing reformed [1:26:08] tory government i would prefer a right-wing would you work for restore i think restore in their [1:26:14] current state no they would have to change but i'm not excluding it what would you have to change [1:26:20] i think they need to define their actual policies on deporting legal migrants what they're what [1:26:24] they're potentially proposing there is very ethically dangerous and you know like i said i think a lot of [1:26:29] restore policy is just jargon slogans without the legal i find it ironic one more thing i find it ironic [1:26:37] that the the line of attack with reform pundits is that a we are similar and there's no point to vote [1:26:44] for us or b we're too extreme and we like to bmp pick which one then go with that attack you can't [1:26:51] hold two contradictory thoughts at the same time we are either too hard right for you or we're too [1:26:56] similar brilliant who's got a next question you've had one already we'll come back to you in a second [1:27:03] anyone else up on the left side um apologies i was slightly late so i don't know if you touched on this but [1:27:08] i think the immigration policies is are really important and that topic is very important but [1:27:14] in terms of let's just say reform or restore come into party the immigration policies are in play what [1:27:20] other um policies or what other kind of arguments do you have in terms of the parties that you're [1:27:28] campaigning for yeah ending the triple lock on pensions i think that the right-wing government has [1:27:34] focused too much on appeasing the elderly and have completely disregarded the needs of young people [1:27:41] the church i think that for too long right-wing parties have focused on this mantra that we don't [1:27:47] do god in this country um certainly as a christian abortion uh reform have cowed away from the dialogue [1:27:55] on abortion but restore have actually talked about reversing the recent reform to abortion laws up until 24 [1:28:00] weeks and reversing the central liberation and revolution in this country who's next uh thank you [1:28:14] um sorry i i wasn't totally satisfied with the answer you gave me earlier to why britain owes no one [1:28:21] is can we make it a bit more specific sorry repeat that last bit for me please i wasn't quite satisfied with [1:28:29] your answer to my previous question um like if a syrian like would you say we owe refuge to any syrian [1:28:37] refugees i think the system needs to be looked at again i'm not going to pretend i'm the party leader [1:28:43] defining this he's asking you i understand he's asking me but i'm not going to overplay what is my [1:28:49] position at the end of the day i focus on the the fundamental so you don't have a position i have [1:28:53] a position so are you going to accept syrian refuge listen i think we need to look at it individually [1:28:59] i think we can't do what restore does and have a blanket thing over literally everything and [1:29:03] pretend politics is some simple game and mask it over as passion i think you're doing that because [1:29:08] you're not asking a question well he's answered the question let's say let's say hypothetically [1:29:13] there is someone trying to claim asylum and they meet all of your criteria for a legitimate asylum seeker [1:29:21] why do you think we owe them like why should me me personally why should my tank why are they [1:29:27] entitled to my money free taxation i get what you mean i just think fundamentally we are christian [1:29:32] nation and we should balance it out so if we can afford it um then then we should allow a limited [1:29:38] number of refugees if we what's that got to do with me well yes i mean yes you can hold all your [1:29:44] money together you can push everyone else away you can focus on yourself and stab everyone else in the [1:29:50] back absolutely you believe that but i'm not stabbing you've espoused classical liberal [1:29:55] thatcherite capitalist views which is focuses on the hyper as an individual you don't believe in [1:30:00] like christian communities i think if britain can uh give refuge to a limited number of refugees and [1:30:06] it doesn't crash our economy are you like are you like a thatcherite capitalist would you say i [1:30:11] wouldn't i would i wouldn't define it exactly like that no right we're going to move on now to the [1:30:14] gentleman don't define any yellow tie and then we're going to finish with this guy here uh vote [1:30:21] splitting uh no one's mentioned vote splitting yet it it links to the second motion that uh [1:30:28] restore's not ready it's not credible it's not ready to win elections as you know reform uk wasn't [1:30:34] in 2023 but when reform uk wasn't ready to win elections there was no other right-wing alternative [1:30:40] that was as popular as reform is now so uh i'm interested in well what both of you have to say but [1:30:48] yeah if reform genuinely cared about vote splitting they would push more harder on the rhetoric of [1:30:54] moving to a system of proportional representation but they won't because then that gives parties the [1:30:59] ability to run in elections without potentially splitting the vote but that won't consolidate their [1:31:06] power so they have to be consistent we we've set out five principles that if they hold to and if they [1:31:11] hold dear to that every right winger agrees to we will do a pact with them however they don't want to [1:31:17] they're on their own you've asked the bigger party to agree with you on five things that are well [1:31:26] a right-wing party about ending democratic security ensure that we reverse islamism and ensure that no [1:31:36] former conservative cabinet holder receives a cabinet position again right why don't you compromise [1:31:42] well they haven't offered a counter a counter offer but instead they've allowed for these media [1:31:47] stooges to hit hit pieces brilliant right thank you that's great jaded did you want to say something [1:31:53] as a final piece on that well i you know i think i think restore are splitting the right you know i [1:31:58] believe obviously if you if you are pushing a separate ideology which restore are doing they have [1:32:02] every democratic right to stand within uh we're not right-wing sorry we're not right-wing we're pushing [1:32:07] a different ideology to reform uk yes so why are we receiving reform support it must mean that the reform [1:32:14] base like reform was the most right-wing option and then you've taken the more extremist reform [1:32:20] supporters but you know i think it's just a quick thing to note that restores whole existence is to [1:32:26] battle reform uk is to see the downfall of your realistically your nearest partner um in the political world [1:32:35] i would hope that you would prefer a reform uk government to a green party or a labour party [1:32:41] government would you agree with that i would say that you are leading to a green party government [1:32:45] if you accept a bunch of conservative um party mps to then hold cabinet positions which will then [1:32:52] completely fail in government then causing a pendulum swing towards the green party [1:32:57] if reform are all right we're former going to be the green if reform are our right-wing guys [1:33:03] and they fail that means that that the public will move towards the left okay let's move on [1:33:11] the last question there's down here pass the mic over to the right hand side thank you um with your [1:33:25] um policy on uh re-migration um you said about a load of social measures that your party would take [1:33:32] if these do not work as you have promised to deport millions what next what next well obviously i don't [1:33:40] like selling that there's one big problem there is a problem that is huge that is not being represented [1:33:45] within most political parties platforms but it's also focusing on social and economic issues so [1:33:51] for example the church itself uh ensuring that our churches aren't enclosed giving funds for listed [1:33:57] buildings um ending the triple lock on the pensions ensuring that young people actually have a start [1:34:02] at life when it comes to the career ladder and property owning all of these other things do i and [1:34:08] this is what i said to someone else do i want to be focusing on migration on what it means to be [1:34:12] british absolutely not a hundred percent i'd rather much more doing what i'm more comfortable with [1:34:17] which is talking about religion theology and these sort of things however i can't because there are [1:34:23] things that i think are quite obvious that aren't being discussed or accepted by so you've specifically [1:34:29] or a store specifically said they would deport millions if people do not self-deport what happens [1:34:34] oh what happens sorry i thought i misheard the question oh well there'd be so obviously [1:34:40] self-deportation methods include making things illegal so if they commit a crime and then they [1:34:45] are imprisoned like the other questionnaire said well that's easily them captured right you either [1:34:51] determine whether they remain in our prison systems or just get deported from there and i mean what sort [1:34:56] of crimes i mean basic crimes or big crimes i would say that if we say that you should stop oppressing women [1:35:03] by treating them as your equal and the burqa if they continue and persist in that practice it starts [1:35:09] a legal battle in which it would most surely if you consistently insist on committing that practice [1:35:15] you are arrested and jailed and so if you don't achieve the millions that you want to is there any [1:35:21] any other measures you're just asking what if i fail well then i fail brilliant thank you so much [1:35:27] and thank you everyone else for your questions give yourself a round of applause everyone yeah thank you to [1:35:31] young bob and jaden palmer thank you for the debate father do you want to leave us a prayer so i will do [1:35:38] a final blessing as we go from this place but feel free to continue mill around chatting getting to know [1:35:44] one another there's no rush to leave so as you go from this place may you know the love of god that [1:35:50] he has for each one of you and everyone in our nation may you know the hope of christ that he has [1:36:00] called this nation to great things and may you know the peace of christ in your hearts that passes all [1:36:08] understanding standing and the blessing of the father the son and the holy ghost amen thank you everyone