Recordings from inside U.S. Sen. Marsha Blackburn's office allege pressure to 'break the law'

[0:00] We have a new development in Tennessee's race for governor and whether there was pressure inside [0:05] Marsha Blackburn's Senate office to break the law. That's the question raised by recordings [0:10] now obtained by News Channel 5 Investigates as Tennessee's senior senator asked voters to put [0:15] her in the governor's office. News Channel 5 chief investigative reporter Phil Williams [0:19] first broke the story about the ethics investigation in her office space just last year. [0:25] And Phil, Senator Blackburn opened the door to these new questions with her own claims about [0:29] that investigation. That's right. We're normally very careful about the types of stories we break [0:34] once early voting begins. But what Senator Blackburn said during an interview this weekend [0:40] left us no choice but to share the rest of the story. I want to start with some news of the day [0:47] as it were. Over at WKRN this weekend, Marsha Blackburn was asked about the story that News [0:53] Channel 5 Investigates first broke about how Blackburn's office had faced a Senate ethics [0:58] investigation last year over the use of tax dollars for her political campaigns and she implied there [1:05] was really nothing to the complaint. This was a politically motivated complaint. It was fully [1:13] investigated. There was no misconduct. There was no disciplinary action and it has been [1:20] completely resolved. But News Channel 5 Investigates has now obtained transcripts of recordings from inside [1:27] Blackburn's office that were provided to the Senate Ethics Committee. We've also heard the recordings for [1:33] ourselves. In one, a senior Blackburn staffer says, look, I could have ran out of ink writing down the [1:40] violations. The person later added, the staff being told to do things is a gross violation of the Hatch Act. [1:48] The Hatch Act makes it a crime to use federal staff and federal tax dollars for anyone's political campaigns. [1:55] At the time, Marsha Blackburn was gearing up for her 2024 re-election campaign and members of her [2:06] taxpayer-funded Senate staff were afraid of being forced to cross the line and to engage in political [2:12] activity. A junior staffer worried, when it gets to the point where I'm just like ethically, the moment it [2:19] feels like I'm crossing ethical lines, a senior member of the Senate staff interjected, I don't like it. [2:25] The first person agreed, I don't like it either. That's when the senior Blackburn Senate staff member [2:31] warned, it's going to be like those lines don't even exist in 24, which is a problem. Here's why a leading [2:38] government ethics expert told me last week, those staff members were right to be concerned. [2:44] The ethical concern with having official staff working on the campaign is that you're using taxpayer money for [2:52] campaign activity. And that's a basic ethics rule that all staffers are aware of as well as all members. [2:59] That is the tragic part. And Blackburn's taxpayer-funded staff were so worried about the 24 campaign, [3:06] according to the evidence provided to the Senate Ethics Committee, they were not sure they could continue to work [3:12] for her office. The senior staffer offered, look, can I tell you something that is completely off the record [3:18] and, you know, just don't say anything about it? The junior person replied, yeah. Look, if I were you, [3:25] I'd start looking because it's going to be hell and you're going to be asked to break the law. [3:30] On some level, you're not going to be asked to like commit fraud or something, but as far as like [3:36] basically being a campaign worker and, you know, blowing off your real job because you know it's [3:42] coming. In the recordings, much of the blame is directed at Blackburn's longtime political [3:47] strategist, Ward Baker, who has a reputation around Washington and Tennessee's Capitol Hill [3:52] for the aggressive, some would even say belligerent, manner in which he operates. [3:56] The junior Blackburn staffer described working with Baker, quote, you're operating in different [4:02] worlds. You're operating with different sets of facts and he just doesn't really operate in this [4:08] world of truthfulness or honesty. The senior person answered, no, no, adding he's a psychopath and he [4:15] doesn't care and he's not going to. That's what it really comes down to. There's no empathy, [4:20] compassion, dignity, integrity. The junior staffer agreed as the other person added and there's not [4:27] going to be. The conversation then turned to why Baker would not hire campaign staff and leave the [4:34] Senate staffers to do their work for taxpayers. Quote, he's literally making millions of dollars [4:39] for her campaign effort. Why would they not? I think he enjoys hurting people. Why don't you hire [4:45] campaign workers and hurt those people because he keeps more money? Blackburn's campaign manager [4:52] responded to my question saying, given the history of your not being fair in your coverage of Senator [4:57] Blackburn and publicity in regard to immediate coverage of her by your station, we are not going [5:03] to respond to your inquiry. Further, please understand that much of what you say in your comments [5:09] is inaccurate and totally without any basis in fact. She, however, did not point to a single detail [5:16] that is not fact. Is there a finding that will be released? There is. The ethics committee sends out a [5:24] report every year and shows there was no disciplinary action. But what the senator did not reveal in the [5:30] WKRN interview was that instead of disciplinary action, according to a person briefed on the outcome of the [5:37] ethics investigation, the committee planned to ask Blackburn's office to come up with a [5:41] corrective action plan to fix the problems inside her office. In the words of one person involved [5:48] in the investigation, Blackburn's office was like children, quote, running around with scissors, [5:53] where senior staff knew there was a problem, but no one did anything to put a wall between the [5:59] Senate staff and Ward Baker. The senior staffer observed, I think that there is an unwritten rule [6:04] that he gets to break all the rules. I suspect you don't disagree. I think my response is like [6:10] each member of the team has to look out for himself or herself. Like you said, look out for number one. [6:17] Ain't none of us need to be getting in trouble for a, you know, a bald-headed psychopath like I'm not [6:24] doing it. And as we mentioned, we do have the actual recorded recording cited in this report, [6:34] but our source has asked that we not play it, at least at this point, out of fear of retributions [6:39] against the people who are involved in potential impacts upon their job. Sure. And to be clear, [6:45] if you got anything wrong, and I know you have the utmost confidence here you're reporting, but if you [6:50] did, the senator's office could come to you, clarify that, and you would do the same. Absolutely. And she [6:56] could release all of her correspondence with the ethics committee, something that one of her opponents, [7:01] John Rose, has called for her to do. But for reasons we can only guess, she refuses to just come clean [7:08] and give us the documents. Ultimately, it would be up to the voters to decide what to do with that [7:13] information. That's right. It's not up to us. It's up to the voters. Thanks, Phil. Appreciate it.