“Preventing Fraudulent Donations: Transparency, Verification, and Accountability”

[7:03] The Committee on House Administration will come to order. [7:06] The title of today's hearing is [7:08] Preventing Fraudulent Donations, [7:10] Transparency, Verification, and Accountability. [7:14] I note that a quorum is present. [7:15] Without objection, the Chair may declare recess at any time. [7:19] Also without objection, the hearing record will remain open [7:22] for five legislative days, so members may submit [7:25] any materials they wish to be included therein. [7:28] Further, without objection, Chairman Jordan [7:30] and Ranking Member Raskin of the Judiciary Committee [7:33] and Chairman Comer and Ranking Member Garcia, [7:35] the Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, [7:38] will wave onto the Committee on House Administration [7:40] for this hearing for the purpose of providing [7:42] opening statements and questions of the witness. [7:45] Thank you, Ranking Member Morelli, members of the committee, [7:48] and our witnesses for participating in today's hearing. [7:51] Let me also thank Chairman Jordan and Chairman Comer [7:53] for joining us today in their partnership [7:55] in this investigation. [7:57] We believe in a principle that only Americans [8:00] should decide American elections. [8:02] Act Blue has violated that principle. [8:06] Ms. Wallace Jones is here today [8:08] because there's a significant concern [8:10] that Act Blue may have allowed foreign donations [8:13] on their platform, lied to Congress, [8:16] and withheld responsive documents [8:18] from a congressional subpoena. [8:20] All three of those actions are illegal. [8:23] In 2023, I opened an investigation into Act Blue, [8:27] following reports that foreign actors [8:29] were exploiting the platform to funnel money [8:31] to American political campaigns. [8:36] As part of that investigation, [8:38] I sent this letter to Act Blue asking basic questions [8:42] about its fraud prevention practices. [8:44] In response, Act Blue CEO Regina Wallace-Jones [8:49] wrote to me in this letter, [8:51] claiming that Act Blue had a robust approach [8:54] to rooting out potential foreign contributions. [8:58] However, according to the New York Times, [9:00] Act Blue's outside legal counsel [9:02] reviewed Ms. Wallace Jones' response [9:06] and found that it posed a substantial risk for Act Blue. [9:12] Specifically, the concern was that Ms. Wallace Jones' letters [9:15] may have been false or misleading. [9:19] In her letter, Ms. Wallace Jones identified three steps [9:22] Act Blue takes to prevent foreign donations. [9:25] One, donors using a foreign address [9:28] must provide U.S. passport information. [9:30] Two, if a contribution appears to be from a foreign address, [9:34] Act Blue contacts a donor to request U.S. passport information. [9:39] And three, the contribution is refunded [9:42] if Act Blue is unable to contact the donor. [9:46] The New York Times reported that Act Blue's outside counsel [9:48] determined those three steps are not always followed. [9:53] In fact, outside counsel warned that passport information [9:57] was never requested for transactions made [10:00] through third-party apps like PayPal and Venmo. [10:04] Outside counsel also warned Act Blue [10:06] that some of the funds received [10:08] were impermissible contributions from foreign nationals. [10:12] This committee issued subpoenas [10:13] for documents related to fraudulent and foreign donations [10:16] and alleged misconduct by Act Blue staff. [10:20] The documents provided by Act Blue [10:22] revealed alarming directives from its leadership [10:24] to lower fraud standards. [10:27] In Act Blue meeting notes turned over to this committee, [10:30] staff were instructed, quote, [10:32] remember that we want to look for reasons [10:35] to accept contributions. [10:38] Do not reject contributions [10:39] for a single suspicious characteristic. [10:42] Look for the forest and not the trees, end quote. [10:46] According to those same notes, [10:48] Act Blue staff was told that this guidance [10:50] was a bit antithetical to prior feedback [10:53] about contributions deemed highly suspicious. [10:56] Further, an Act Blue memo titled Fraud Prevention 101 [11:00] for new associates in the workflow advises that, quote, [11:04] if an otherwise legitimate donor uses a fake name, [11:08] we would want to accept their donation, end quote. [11:12] We have additional evidence of Act Blue [11:14] detecting at least 22 significant fraud campaigns. [11:19] Nine of those fraud campaigns had a foreign nexus. [11:22] After receiving this information, [11:24] we deposed and interviewed five former Act Blue employees. [11:29] When deposed, Act Blue employees refused [11:32] to answer a single question. [11:35] Instead, they invoked the Fifth Amendment 146 times. [11:40] We gave Act Blue employees an opportunity [11:42] to answer our questions, but they refused. [11:45] But now, Ms. Wallace-Jones, you have a real opportunity [11:47] to explain how this occurred. [11:50] Ms. Wallace-Jones agreed originally agreed [11:52] to appear voluntarily before us this morning. [11:55] But late Monday afternoon, her lawyers requested a subpoena [11:58] in order for her to appear. [12:00] A subpoena was provided. [12:01] Ms. Wallace-Jones is now before us. [12:03] I look forward to your answers to our questions. [12:06] Congress and the American people deserve the truth. [12:10] With that, I'll now yield to the ranking member, [12:12] Mr. Morelli, for the purpose of his opening statement. [12:23] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [12:25] The integrity of our democracy depends on the integrity [12:28] of a campaign finance system. [12:30] Corruption in campaigns yields corruption in government. [12:34] When corporations and billionaires can buy politicians, [12:37] Americans everywhere recognize [12:39] that our campaign finance system is corrupt. [12:42] The proof is right in front of us. [12:44] The President's campaign accepted piles and piles [12:48] of dark money from corporations and billionaires [12:50] while Republicans cheered him on. [12:53] In fact, the nonpartisan professional staff [12:55] that the Federal Elections Commission [12:57] found potential campaign finance violations [12:59] in 32 instances involving President Trump. [13:03] Yet in all 32, Republican FEC commissioners blocked [13:07] any investigation into potential violations of law. [13:11] Knowing that Republicans will shield them [13:13] from accountability, the administration is awash [13:15] with insider trading and self-enrichment. [13:18] Look no further than the $1.8 billion slush fund, [13:21] a fund to reward criminals who assaulted Capitol Police officers [13:26] on January 6th. [13:27] The President is trying to force on the American people. [13:30] Look no further than the Republican majority, [13:32] which slashed healthcare for millions of Americans [13:36] while cutting taxes for their billionaire donors. [13:39] The American people understand [13:41] that congressional Republicans and this administration [13:44] willingly tolerate corruption when it benefits them. [13:47] So it's outrageous but hardly surprising [13:50] that this Republican majority has flat out refused [13:52] to investigate critical, credible reports [13:55] of fraud, abuse, and corruption [13:57] on the Republican fundraising platform, WinRed. [14:00] Refused to investigate WinRed [14:02] for facilitating documented, illegal foreign contributions [14:06] that flowed through WinRed to President Trump's campaign. [14:10] Why haven't Republicans attempted to investigate [14:12] the Chinese national who reportedly contributed thousands [14:15] to President Trump via WinRed? [14:17] According to public reporting, [14:19] a Chinese businessman illegally contributed $5,000 [14:23] to the Trump campaign in 2024. [14:25] What do House Republicans have to say [14:27] about this corruption? [14:28] Not a word, deafening silence. [14:31] And it doesn't end there. [14:33] Public reporting shows that WinRed, quote, [14:35] victimized hundreds of elderly Americans [14:37] and misled those battling dementia. [14:40] And an examination of Trump campaign accounts [14:43] shows that numerous donors listed their addresses [14:45] 999 anonymous drive when contributing to the President. [14:50] That is clear evidence of fraud. [14:52] Those donors could be foreign nationals. [14:54] These donors possibly committed crimes. [14:58] But House Republicans have done nothing to investigate that. [15:01] The cost of corruption is real. [15:03] It hurts Americans in so many ways, [15:05] including their bank accounts. [15:07] But President Trump simply does not care [15:09] about regular Americans. [15:10] Don't believe me? [15:11] Take him at his word. [15:13] The President conceded just last month. [15:15] He doesn't think about the financial pain [15:17] of American citizens. [15:18] Yet House Republicans will do anything to protect him, [15:21] even as gas and grocery prices skyrocket, [15:24] as our economy crumbles and Americans lose faith [15:27] in their ability to achieve the American dream. [15:30] Republicans won't investigate the clear pattern [15:31] of fraud and criminality on WinRed [15:34] precisely because the fraud benefits Donald Trump, [15:37] because the money goes to the Trump campaign [15:39] and to other Republican campaigns. [15:41] Republicans' investigation today is not about [15:44] safeguarding American elections. [15:45] It's not about protecting American voters. [15:48] It's about punishing enemies of the President [15:50] and shielding his allies. [15:52] And this all fits a pattern. [15:55] Just look at this corrupt DOJ's vindictive, [15:57] politically motivated prosecutions, [16:00] which have been repeatedly thrown out of court. [16:03] Just look at the President's attempted slush fund [16:05] for insurrectionists and criminals, [16:07] for people who violently attacked police. [16:10] The corruption is visible to everyone, [16:12] but Republicans refuse to do anything to end it. [16:14] So, owing to the majority's dereliction of duty, [16:18] House Democrats have stepped into the gap. [16:20] We sent a letter asking the Treasury Department [16:23] for information related to financial irregularities [16:27] on WinRed. [16:28] We sent a letter to the Federal Trade Commission [16:30] seeking information on allegations of fraud [16:32] and abuse on WinRed. [16:34] The Trump administration stonewalled both requests. [16:37] We sent letters to the Republican Attorneys General [16:39] of Virginia and Texas seeking information [16:41] on potential crimes committed by WinRed. [16:44] Neither responded. [16:45] So, this morning, we sent a letter to WinRed [16:48] asking for information related to foreign contributions [16:51] and fraud on their platform. [16:53] Critically, our letter made it clear [16:54] that WinRed must retain all information relevant [16:57] to future investigations into fraud, abuse, [17:00] or criminality on behalf of WinRed. [17:02] When there is clear evidence of fraud, [17:04] deceptive fundraising methods, [17:06] or potential foreign contributions [17:08] in American elections, [17:09] Congress has a duty to investigate. [17:11] House Republicans have not taken that duty seriously. [17:14] But next year, rest assured, [17:16] committee Democrats will. [17:17] The American people deserve confidence [17:19] that our elections belong to Americans, [17:21] not to foreign actors, not to fraudsters, [17:24] and not to special interests. [17:25] That's the standard Congress should demand. [17:27] It's the standard House Democrats will uphold next year. [17:31] Before I yield back, I'd ask for unanimous consent [17:34] to enter two things into the record. [17:35] The June 1st letter ranking members, [17:37] Raskin, Garcia, and I sent to Attorney General Paxson [17:40] regarding WinRed and today's letter to WinRed [17:42] seeking documents and a transcribed interview. [17:46] And with that, Mr. Chair, I yield back. [17:48] Without objection, so ordered. [17:49] I now yield five minutes to the Chairman [17:51] of the Judiciary Committee, Mr. Jordan, [17:53] for an opening statement. [17:54] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [17:55] Everything is fine. [17:56] Everything is fine. [17:58] We're not taking foreign contributions. [18:00] That's what Ms. Wallace Jones said in November 2023, [18:04] responding to a letter from the Chairman. [18:06] She said, passport information is required [18:08] from donors providing an address outside the United States. [18:11] Quote, we have multi-layered screenings in place [18:13] to root out foreign contributions. [18:15] She put it in a letter, put it in writing [18:18] in a letter to Congress. [18:20] Now, the only problem is, [18:22] ActBlue's outside counsel, as the Chairman said, [18:24] sent a memo to Ms. Wallace Jones [18:26] where they said things were a little different [18:27] than what she described to Congress. [18:30] They said ActBlue's response to Congress [18:31] was not entirely accurate. [18:33] They said, quote, ActBlue did not have the rigor [18:35] in its review of overseas donations that was required [18:38] or that it described to Congress. [18:41] Quote, there's a substantial risk. [18:43] Some of the funds were impermissible contributions [18:45] from foreign nationals. [18:48] And ActBlue's staff was aware [18:49] that its system was not as robust as necessary, [18:52] making these contributions appear, listen here, [18:55] knowing and willful. [18:58] There's intent right there. [19:00] Knowing and willful and an effort to conceal. [19:03] Wow. [19:04] Knowing and willful, not entirely accurate response [19:07] to Congress in an effort to conceal. [19:09] You know what they call that? [19:11] They call that lying. [19:14] So the question is, who are you going to believe? [19:15] The law firm or ActBlue? [19:18] Now, a few things to consider when you're asking, [19:19] when you're evaluating that question, [19:22] that we've uncovered, the committees have uncovered. [19:23] First, there's just the general suspicious activity. [19:26] Foreign IP addresses with 237 contributions in one day. [19:31] 1,700 transactions in seven days [19:33] where the donor's country did not match the country [19:36] of the donor's IP address. [19:39] That seems fishy. [19:41] Second, the documents the committee obtained did not square [19:44] with Ms. Wallace-Jones' response to Congress. [19:48] We had one ActBlue employee who, in an email, said, [19:51] changes we have made over the last year have already meant [19:54] we're accepting more fraud. [19:57] So there was already some fraud. [19:59] They changed their standards so they were accepting more fraud. [20:02] ActBlue board member Kimberly Peeler-Allen admitted [20:04] up to, quote, 38 million in ActBlue contributions in 2024 [20:08] had signs of a foreign origin. [20:12] Third, as the chairman said, [20:14] there were five people on the fraud prevention team [20:17] at ActBlue who were concerned about foreign contributions, [20:21] and all five have either resigned, [20:25] been fired, or been placed on leave. [20:29] All five. [20:30] The manager of the day-to-day fraud prevention resigned. [20:33] Vice President of Customer Service in charge of fraud prevention for 2024 resigned. [20:39] Top lawyers at ActBlue. [20:40] General Counsel Darren Hurwitz fired, given a $170,000 severance package [20:45] as long as he didn't say anything without first checking with ActBlue. [20:49] Aaron Ting, Associate General Counsel, resigns. [20:52] ActBlue refuses to give us, even though we've asked for it, [20:55] his resignation letter. [20:57] And legal counsel Zain Ahmad resigns after being retaliated against [21:02] for blowing the whistle to the board about what was going on. [21:06] And as the chairman mentioned, we deposed all five of them. [21:09] And every single one of them, 146 times, took the fifth. [21:16] This is a tale as old as time. [21:18] You get caught doing something wrong, [21:20] and when you're questioned about it, you deny it. [21:23] And when evidence emerges and questions persist, [21:27] you take the fifth. [21:29] Take the fifth. [21:30] Now, why would all that happen? [21:32] Why would all that happen? [21:34] Well, I think there's probably 3.8 billion reasons why all that happened. [21:38] 3.8 billion dollars ActBlue took in in the 2024 election cycle. [21:45] That's a lot of money. [21:47] That's a lot of money. [21:49] And we know that there's something going on here, [21:51] and that's why the investigation persists. [21:53] And our investigation is different than what the Justice Department is doing, [21:56] but we appreciate what they're doing too. [21:57] And mostly, I want to thank this committee. [21:58] I want to thank Chairman Steyl and this committee for the work they've done. [22:02] But for that letter sent, we might not have figured this out. [22:05] So I appreciate the Chairman and the good work he's doing, and I yield back. [22:08] The gentleman yields back. [22:09] The Ranking Member of the Judiciary Committee, Mr. Raskin, is recognized for five minutes [22:13] for an opening statement. [22:14] Thank you kindly, Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member Morelli for the invitation. [22:19] It's great to be back here in the intimate quarters of the House Administration Committee. [22:26] The hearing is called Preventing Fraudulent Donations, Transparency, Verification, and Accountability. [22:34] That sounds like a valuable inquiry to me. [22:37] The problem is that, as we all know, that's not what the hearing is really about. [22:40] There were our colleagues who would have first demanded testimony from the CEO of WinRed, [22:46] the fundraising platform that has generated hundreds and hundreds of serious fraud complaints [22:52] from individual Americans, mostly Republicans, including a lot of elderly Americans and Americans [22:58] with disabilities, who say they've been robbed blind, hoodwinked by WinRed, in many cases fleeced [23:06] out of their life savings. [23:09] But the Republican chairs of our three committees have repeatedly refused to conduct any oversight [23:13] or investigation into the WinRed platform that processes donations for over 7,800 GOP campaigns [23:20] and committees across the United States, including all the GOP senators and 97 percent of GOP House [23:26] members. [23:27] Well, that's just not a serious approach to the problem. [23:31] This hearing is really part of a political vengeance and vendetta campaign that yesterday [23:37] came to the House Judiciary Committee in the form of a four-hour hearing interrogating the [23:43] president of the Southern Poverty Law Center. [23:46] After the 2020 election, banks and credit card issuers estimated that WinRed fraud cases [23:51] constituted as much as 3 percent of their total national fraud workload across all transactions. [23:59] That is a shockingly large share, given that there are 150 million credit card transactions [24:05] that American consumers and businesses engage in every single day in the country. [24:10] Between January 2022 and June 2024, the FTC received more than 800 complaints about WinRed, [24:17] nearly seven times the number it got about ActBlue. [24:22] In the final months of 2020 alone, the Trump campaign, RNC, and their shared accounts had to [24:27] issue more than 530,000 refunds worth more than $64 million. [24:34] That's more than 11 times the amount that the Biden campaign and the Democratic committees [24:39] had to refund. [24:40] And yet, who of the administration and our GOP colleagues focused on exclusively from the beginning? [24:47] ActBlue, the company that primarily processes contributions for Democratic campaigns around the country. [24:54] Last April, the White House issued a presidential memorandum directing the AG and Treasury to, [24:59] quote, use all lawful authority to investigate ActBlue, which, according to the White House, [25:04] facilitated straw or dummy contributions or foreign contributions to political candidates and committees. [25:11] But as Americans can see each day, every accusation by this administration is an admission. [25:18] Every allegation a confession, every charge a self-indictment. [25:23] The arraignment of ActBlue is an admission about WinRed's continuing serious fraud against [25:30] their donors. [25:31] An Associated Press Review of President Trump's political committees found more than 1,600 contributions [25:38] from unverified donors who lived abroad, had close ties to foreign interests, or failed [25:44] to disclose basic identifying information. [25:47] Many of those contributions came through WinRed. [25:49] AP reported that one Chinese businessman gave $5,000 to Trump through WinRed while listing [25:55] a La Quinta Inn as his home address. [25:59] Other contributions came from unnamed donors listing 999 Anonymous Drive as their address. [26:06] Another series of WinRed contributions listed the donor's address as a vacant building in Washington [26:12] that turned out to be a defunct funeral home. [26:15] Where is all of the righteous outrage about these abuses? [26:20] Where is the mobilization of taxpayer resources to investigate WinRed? [26:26] Where is Attorney General Ken Paxton, who was impeached by the Texas House of Representatives [26:32] for bribery, securities fraud, abuse of office, and obstruction of justice? [26:38] Attorney General Paxton sued Act Blue in April, but his office has ignored complaint after [26:43] complaint from Texas constituents about the allegations of fraud and abuse related to WinRed. [26:51] Who were the victims of WinRed that Ken Paxton deliberately ignores? [26:56] Well, one Texas woman tried to make small one-time contributions to Republican candidates that [27:03] she supported. WinRed emptied more than $15,000 out of her bank account, including charging [27:10] her account 29 times in one day. [27:14] She wrote to Attorney General Paxton that she, quote, didn't realize they were sucking my life [27:20] savings out of my bank account. [27:22] He never even wrote her back. [27:24] And if that's how partisan Republicans treat Republicans, you can imagine how they're going [27:29] to treat everybody else in the country. [27:33] You don't want me to discuss these other complainants in Texas? [27:36] The gentleman's time has expired. [27:38] The ranking member of the Oversight and Government Reform Committee, Mr. Garcia, is recognized for [27:44] five minutes for an opening statement. [27:46] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [27:47] Appreciate being here. [27:48] And I want to just begin by echoing, of course, Ranking Member Morelli and Raskin. [27:54] The biggest fraud in this country that we should be talking about is happening at the White [27:58] House. [27:59] We're not talking about the $1.8 billion slush fund. [28:02] We're not talking about the clear selling or influence of pardons in what's happening [28:07] at the White House. [28:08] We're not talking about the $2 billion that Jared Kushner got two months after leaving [28:12] the White House for an investment fund that's made no return. [28:15] We're not talking about the possible Trump family pay-to-play schemes and scandals that [28:20] are happening across the world as President Trump tries to do diplomacy and the Trump family [28:26] follows up with real estate deals. [28:29] We're here because Republicans want to talk about Act Blue, not because they're serious [28:33] about strengthening campaign finance laws or actually strengthening the abuse of fraud [28:39] in this country. [28:41] Now we should all support and work to strengthen security, prevent fraud, stop interference in [28:48] foreign elections. [28:49] Certainly if there are ways to improve platforms across this country, public or private, that [28:56] should be the focus. [28:58] But if Republicans were serious about that goal, they wouldn't be exclusively focused [29:02] on Act Blue. [29:03] They'd also be examining the WinRed platform with the exact same level of scrutiny. [29:09] Now a real investigation into WinRed would raise serious questions. [29:13] The Trump campaign, as has been mentioned through WinRed, has accepted thousands of contributions that reportedly lacked basic identifying information required under campaign finance [29:24] law. [29:26] Now according to reporting, President Trump received more than 1,000 contributions that omitted [29:31] key identifying information such as city, state, address, county. [29:35] And he also received contributions from donors whose names were incomplete, listed as anonymous [29:40] or marked name not provided. [29:43] So there are concerns. [29:45] And sure, there are concerns about foreign source donations as well as it relates to WinRed. [29:50] Now one example involved a Chinese businessman whose contribution to the Trump campaign listed [29:55] an address in La Quinta, California. [29:58] Now public records identified him as actually living in China and described him as a Chinese [30:02] national. [30:03] Now if Republicans are concerned about foreign money and politics, they should be investigating [30:08] those allegations with the same enthusiasm that they're bringing to Act Blue. [30:15] But perhaps the most troubling allegations involving WinRed actually don't even concern foreign [30:19] money. [30:20] They concern WinRed victimizing American donors themselves. [30:23] In fact, Republican donors, as was raised by ranking member Raskin. [30:27] Now CNN reported that there was one 82-year-old woman living in a modest Baltimore apartment [30:34] who unknowingly gave more than $350,000 to Republican causes through recurring donations. [30:41] Another donor, an 80-year-old Californian who later died of lung cancer contributed more [30:47] than $180,000 and just had $250 left in her bank account when she passed away. [30:55] Now these stories raise real concerns about WinRed's use of pre-checked recurring donation boxes [31:02] and confusing solicitations that many consumers, seniors and others have had a hard time understanding. [31:10] Now according to CNN, WinRed has been the subject of hundreds of complaints to the Federal Trade [31:16] Commission, far more, by the way, than comparable complaints involving any Democratic fundraising [31:22] platforms. [31:23] Yet it's interesting that we're only focused on Act Blue. [31:28] Now WinRed also faced scrutiny over aggressive text messaging practices, and multiple state [31:32] attorneys general have investigated its recurring donation policies. [31:36] Yet today's hearing ignores, of course, all of that. [31:40] Because this is not a serious effort to improve campaign finance compliance. [31:45] It is a partisan exercise designed to protect Donald Trump, to protect WinRed, and attack Democrats [31:55] and political opponents. [31:56] If the committee wants a real investigation into campaign fundraising practices, let's examine [32:02] everyone and let's follow the facts where they lead, not pretend to have some kind of investigation [32:08] that only really is going after one side. [32:10] With that, I yield back. [32:12] Thank you. [32:13] The gentleman yields back. [32:14] Without objection, all other members' opening statements will be made part of the hearing [32:16] record if they're submitted to the committee clerk by 5 p.m. today. [32:20] As our witness today, we have Ms. Regina Wallace-Jones, the CEO of Act Blue. [32:25] Ms. Wallace-Jones, will you please stand and raise your right hand. [32:28] Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony that you're about to give is the truth, the whole [32:37] truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? [32:42] Let the record show that the witness answered in the affirmative. [32:44] You may be seated. [32:48] I'll begin our questions today, followed by the ranking member. [32:52] Foreign funds have no place in American political campaigns. [32:57] American elections are for American citizens only. [33:00] Ms. Wallace-Jones, in 2023, I sent you this letter with five straightforward questions with [33:07] a goal of confirming that foreign funds are not in our elections and that Act Blue had adequate [33:13] fraud prevention measures in place. [33:16] You replied a month later with a four-page letter describing your fraud prevention policies [33:22] and procedures that you had in place at Act Blue. [33:26] But according to the New York Times, your response to this committee may have been false and misleading. [33:33] Ms. Wallace-Jones, when you signed this letter to me, did you believe that this letter was [33:39] false and misleading? [33:40] On the advice of my counsel, I respectfully decline to answer this question pursuant to [33:49] my Fifth Amendment rights under the Constitution. [33:53] Ms. Wallace-Jones, before you sent this letter, did you believe, was it brought to your attention [34:02] that this letter that you sent me was false and misleading? [34:05] On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer the question pursuant to my Fifth Amendment [34:12] rights under the Constitution. [34:13] Ms. Wallace-Jones, I think it's important for everybody here to know that according to [34:16] the New York Times, you've been aware for quite a while that the response you made was [34:21] likely false or misleading. [34:24] Did you ever consider correcting the record for this committee when it was brought to your [34:27] attention that your letter to me was false and misleading? [34:30] Ms. Wallace-Jones, on the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer the question pursuant [34:37] to the attorney-client privilege and my Fifth Amendment rights under the Constitution. [34:41] That's pretty interesting. [34:42] So now you're following the advice of your legal counsel, but you didn't when they warned [34:46] you that your letter to me was false and misleading. [34:49] Your letter claimed that passport information is required from donors providing an address [34:55] outside the United States. [34:58] In November 2023, when you wrote that letter, did every ActBlue donation that provided an address [35:05] outside the United States require passport information? [35:08] Ms. Wallace-Jones, on the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer the question pursuant [35:15] to my Fifth Amendment rights under the Constitution. [35:17] Okay. [35:18] Your letter also claimed that ActBlue would contact a donor to request passport information [35:22] if the contribution appeared to be from a foreign address. [35:26] And you told this committee that the contribution would be refunded if ActBlue was unable to make [35:32] contact with the donor. [35:34] Is that correct? [35:36] Ms. Wallace-Jones, on the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer the question [35:41] pursuant to my Fifth Amendment rights under the Constitution. [35:44] Well, we have reason to believe that your letter in 2023 was not correct. [35:50] Because according to the New York Times, donations that were made through third-party apps like [35:54] PayPal or Venmo, that passport information was not always required. [36:00] So what's true? [36:01] The 2023 letter you sent me or the New York Times article on the advice of counsel, I respectfully [36:11] decline to answer the question pursuant to my Fifth Amendment rights under the Constitution. [36:18] After you sent me the 2023 letter, ActBlue weakened its fraud prevention rules twice in 2024. [36:29] Quote, even after internal assessments confirmed that these policy changes would lead to more fraudulent donations. [36:37] End quote. [36:38] Did you weaken fraud prevention standards to increase donations on the ActBlue platform? [36:45] On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer the question pursuant to my Fifth Amendment rights [36:53] under the Constitution. [36:55] Ms. Wallace-Jones, I want to make clear for the hearing record, you've been asked legitimate questions [37:00] that are intended to elicit information the committee has the right to have to aid our inquiry. [37:07] You've refused to answer the questions. [37:09] Are you formally asserting your Fifth Amendment privilege against self-incrimination today? [37:16] On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer the question pursuant to my Fifth Amendment [37:22] rights under the Constitution. [37:28] For the record, I think it's important to know that we invited you to come here today to testify. [37:34] Originally, you were coming voluntarily. [37:37] On Monday, your attorneys reached out to this committee and requested a subpoena for you to testify. [37:42] We provided you that subpoena. [37:44] You're here today, you have an opportunity to testify, and you've chosen to take your Fifth Amendment constitutional right. [37:51] I'll now recognize the ranking member, Mr. Morelli, for five minutes for the purpose of asking his questions. [38:01] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [38:03] When it comes to upholding the integrity of American elections, when it comes to protecting [38:07] and defending the rule of law, sadly, Republicans are absent without leave. [38:12] Distracted by their pretextual partisan investigation into Democratic fundraising, Republicans ignored [38:18] the fire raging in their own house. [38:20] So, if Republicans on this committee, afraid of crossing Donald Trump, refuse to investigate [38:24] this corruption, Democrats will. [38:27] Let's begin with the Chinese businessman who used WinRed to illegally funnel money to President [38:32] Trump. [38:33] Public reporting indicated that Jiajun Zhang, a jet-setting Chinese businessman, used WinRed [38:39] to illegally send $5,000 to President Trump's campaign, listing a California hotel as his [38:46] address. [38:48] How did WinRed's internal legal compliance system allow this? [38:52] Why wasn't this contribution, and potentially scores of others like it, blocked? [38:57] Committee Republicans don't seem to care about the answers to these questions, so Democrats [39:00] have stepped up. [39:01] We began our own investigation. [39:03] What did we find? [39:04] Democrats found that while Mr. Zhang was corruptly funneling money through WinRed, he was allegedly [39:10] involved in a poker tournament at a casino that once owed a $3.1 million settlement to the [39:17] California Justice Department for violating the Bank Secrecy Act. [39:20] A casino that also paid, incidentally, a $2.8 million penalty to the Treasury Department's [39:26] Financial Crimes Enforcement Network, a casino that, on a separate occasion, admitted that [39:31] it failed to properly follow federal anti-money laundering laws. [39:37] What was this Chinese national who we know was channeling illegal money to President Trump [39:42] really doing at the casino? [39:44] Who was he meeting with? [39:45] Why do House Republicans refuse to investigate this egregious violation of federal law? [39:50] Is it because the corrupt illegal money flowed through WinRed to President Trump? [39:55] Let's take another example. [39:56] A no-doubt imaginary person identified only as Alex A gave nearly $5,000 to President Trump's [40:04] campaign in 2024 through WinRed. [40:09] This Alex person listed an address, 420 H Street Northeast, just a few blocks from where [40:15] we're sitting right now. [40:16] This was not a one-off mistake or a clerical law. [40:19] This was someone using a false name to explicitly break the law to the tune of over 40 problematic [40:26] donations through WinRed over the course of more than a year. [40:29] This is not one of those hard-to-find cases where someone tries to cover their tracks. [40:34] This is clear as day. [40:35] Anyone can tell you that Alex A is a pseudonym. [40:39] That Alex A does not, in fact, reside at 420 H Street Northeast because 420 H Street Northeast [40:46] is a defunct funeral home in a vacant building near Union Station, a building that has been [40:51] vacant for over seven years. [40:54] How did WinRed not catch any of this? [40:57] Why aren't we investigating this clear pattern of fraud, of illegality, of corruption? [41:02] What are House Republicans covering up? [41:05] It's as clear as day why we're actually here today. [41:08] Anyone watching today knows a hearing on, quote, preventing fraudulent donations without [41:12] looking into WinRed is not a serious proceeding. [41:16] If we as a committee were truly interested in combating fraudulent political donations, [41:21] we would be undertaking a good-faith effort to understand the problem and to discuss solutions. [41:26] But Republicans are not interested in solutions. [41:28] They're interested in a partisan witch-hunt. [41:31] Last week, Democrats on House Judiciary, on Judiciary and on Oversight in Government form [41:35] sent a letter to Texas Attorney General Ken Paxson seeking information related to his [41:40] investigations, if any, on WinRed. [41:42] We set a deadline for a response. [41:44] It was this past Monday, June 8. [41:46] Attorney General Paxson ignored us. [41:49] So now, Mr. Chairman, it's time this committee to start taking our duty to protect American [41:54] voters, protect American elections seriously. [41:58] Americans deserve to know what WinRed is hiding, what Republicans are hiding. [42:01] It's time for us to draw a line in the sand to make clear that regardless of partisanship, [42:07] no one is above the law. [42:08] And with that, Mr. Chairman, pursuant to Clause 2-K-6 of Rule 11, I move that the committee [42:13] subpoena Warren Kenneth Paxson, Jr., the Attorney General of Texas. [42:18] I recognize the motion and hold it in abeyance until the end of the hearing. [42:22] MR. [42:24] Thank you, Mr. Chair. [42:25] I yield back my time. [42:26] MR. [42:27] The gentleman yields back. [42:28] In deference to the chair and the ranking member of the other full committee, I now recognize [42:32] the chairman of the Judiciary Committee, Mr. Jordan, for five minutes. [42:34] MR. [42:35] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [42:36] Mr. Garcia, in his opening statement, said we're here because Republicans are playing [42:38] politics. [42:39] Let's be clear. [42:40] We're here because Act Blue's legal counsel said Ms. Wallace Jones lied to Congress, willfully [42:47] and knowingly misled the Congress of the United States. [42:50] That's why we're here. [42:51] MR. [42:52] Oh, by the way, who was the legal counsel, Covington-Burling? [42:54] Who was her counsel? [42:55] Dana Remus, not some Republican. [42:58] She was former White House counsel for Joe Biden. [43:01] That's who said that. [43:02] That's why we're here. [43:03] So I just have a couple questions for you, Ms. Wallace Jones, just a couple. [43:07] Your board chairman said, Act Blue accepted up to 38 million contributions in 2024 that had [43:13] the signs of foreign origin. [43:14] How much fraud is too much fraud? [43:18] On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer the question pursuant to my Fifth [43:24] Amendment rights under the Constitution. [43:29] How many foreign contributions did Act Blue accept? [43:33] On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer the question pursuant to my Fifth Amendment [43:39] rights under the Constitution. [43:42] How much money did Act Blue accept from Russia? [43:47] On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer the question pursuant to my Fifth [43:53] Amendment rights under the Constitution. [43:56] Why did your entire legal team quit, your in-house legal team? [44:03] On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer the question pursuant to my Fifth Amendment [44:10] rights under the Constitution. [44:12] Did your legal team quit because of reduced fraud standards? [44:16] On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer the question pursuant to my Fifth [44:24] Amendment rights under the Constitution. [44:27] I understand. [44:28] We won't keep you here all day, but let me just do one more. [44:31] Did you weaken your fraud standards to help Democrats? [44:33] On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer the question pursuant to my Fifth Amendment [44:41] rights under the Constitution. [44:43] Mr. Chairman, again, I appreciate the good work you and your committee are doing. [44:47] With that, I would yield the balance of my time to the gentleman from North Carolina. [44:56] Thank you for appearing today. [44:57] I'm sorry that this has turned into a partisan exercise. [45:01] The American people deserve truth, truth in everything. [45:06] I'm not going to disagree with some of my Democratic colleagues that say they want truth from other [45:11] fundraising platforms. [45:12] I want this, too. [45:14] But the fact is, these were egregious practices that were put forth by Act Blue that are well-documented. [45:22] Do you regret any of the things that you said or any of the things that Act Blue has done [45:26] in the past in regards to foreign donations? [45:29] On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer the question pursuant to my Fifth Amendment [45:37] rights under the Constitution. [45:39] If you had the chance to pick another place to be employed, would you have joined Act Blue? [45:46] On the advice of my counsel, I respectfully decline to answer the question pursuant to my Fifth [45:54] Amendment rights under the Constitution. [45:56] I am amazed at the number of attorneys that are behind you to be able to coach you to say [46:00] these things. [46:02] That's really, that's quite an expense Act Blue is going to have. [46:07] It's just a tragedy that we're here today on partisan grounds. [46:10] We can't get to the truth. [46:11] This is what the American people have asked Congress to do. [46:14] They ask us to get to the truth. [46:16] They don't talk about money to go into Ukraine. [46:18] They don't talk about, you know, Joe Biden wanting to make sure that he gets paid. [46:23] They just want the truth. [46:25] And the fact that you guys have literally allowed, continued, and agreed with foreign intervention [46:34] in our elections just because of monetary consequences, which help certain types of candidates, in my [46:39] opinion, is horrible, disgusting, egregious, and sadly, unpatriotic and un-American. [46:47] I wish I could ask you more, but I know what the answers are going to be. [46:51] I pray we get to this. [46:52] Maybe we'll get to this in a court of law. [46:53] It seems like that's where things are going these days. [46:55] So if you've got to plead the Fifth, that's where I guess we end up. [46:58] So thank you for coming today. [47:00] I'll yield back the remainder of the time. [47:02] The gentleman yields back. [47:03] The chair now recognizes the ranking member of the Judiciary Committee, Mr. Raskin, for five minutes [47:08] for the purpose of asking questions. [47:11] Thank you kindly, Mr. Chairman. [47:12] A Republican donor from Fort Worth complained that WinRed siphoned $11,000 from his account [47:19] without any personal authorization from him. [47:22] He wrote, I'm 81 years old and I've been taken advantage of. [47:25] He's still waiting for a response from Attorney General Paxton. [47:29] Why isn't he here today testifying about what's actually taking place to our people? [47:36] CNN reported that one 82-year-old woman wearing pajamas with holes in them when they interviewed [47:41] her because she didn't want to spend money on new pajamas was swindled of more than $350,000 [47:49] of her life savings that she had no idea she was giving to Republicans through WinRed. [47:55] This is what real fraud looks like. [47:56] Why don't we investigate it? [47:59] Attorney General Paxton, who himself uses WinRed, systematically ignored all of these desperate [48:04] constituent complaints. [48:07] But somehow, the day after James Tallarico, Mr. Paxton's opponent in his Senate race raised [48:12] a remarkable $2.5 million in a 24-hour period from ActBlue, Mr. Paxton suddenly decided to [48:19] investigate ActBlue and dispatch undercover investigators to trawl ActBlue's business practices. [48:26] Meantime, Paxton has consistently ignored oversight letters ranking members Morelli, Garcia, and [48:32] I have sent to him. [48:33] But whistleblowers come forward every day about WinRed's fraud. [48:38] Just this week, my office got a whistleblower tip from a woman in Colorado, a registered Republican, [48:44] who said she gave $100 to WinRed, which WinRed turned into recurring weekly $100 contributions [48:51] without her permission. [48:53] She's been fighting over these fraudulent charges since February, contacting WinRed and the Republican [48:58] National Committee, but has gotten absolutely nowhere. [49:01] So she reached out to my office for help. [49:03] And if that's the way that Republicans treat Republicans, it makes sense to me that Donald [49:07] Trump has the lowest opinion ratings of any president in decades. [49:12] But it's not just Paxton covering up WinRed's fraud. [49:15] Last summer, we asked the Treasury Department to turn over all suspicious activity reports. [49:21] Financial monitors have gotten related to WinRed. [49:24] And we asked FTC Chair Andrew Ferguson to turn over all complaints related to WinRed. [49:29] CNN has revealed that WinRed had been used to defraud hundreds of elderly Americans and mislead [49:35] specifically people battling dementia and other cognitive impairments, including Alzheimer's [49:45] disease, into giving away millions of dollars, far more than they ever intended, far more than [49:51] their families could afford. [49:52] But the Treasury Department and the FTC have refused to turn over any documents or even answer [49:57] our letters. [49:58] They've refused to explain why they won't turn over the documents. [50:02] But one detail in CNN's report provides a hint. [50:05] The single biggest beneficiary of all these small-dollar donations from these unwitting recurring [50:11] donors was none other than Donald Trump, the founder of Trump University. [50:17] There are some obvious things that we can and should do to stop online fundraising abuse across [50:23] the board politically. [50:25] In 2021, the FEC recommended that Congress ban pre-checked recurring donation boxes so [50:31] we would know that any recurring donations are unauthorized and illegal. [50:36] That would have prevented many, if not most, of the deplorable fraudulent practices that [50:40] have swindled millions and millions of dollars of people's life savings in Texas and all across [50:45] the country. [50:46] That was common sense when it was unanimously recommended by the FEC and it's common sense [50:50] today. [50:51] Can we agree to that? [50:52] How about today? [50:53] I'd support that today. [50:55] But I fear this hearing is not about making any positive policy changes. [50:59] It's about hauling in the CEO of ActBlue, forcing her to take the Fifth Amendment. [51:04] You know, Donald Trump has taken the Fifth Amendment 440 times. [51:07] So before anybody starts denouncing the Constitution of the United States, think about what you say [51:11] about people who invoke the Fifth Amendment against petty political vendettas and prosecutions. [51:19] So this is exactly the kind of thing that the Fifth Amendment was designed to be there for. [51:27] The Supreme Court has said the Fifth Amendment protects the innocent, as well as the guilty, [51:32] people who might be ensnared by ambiguous circumstances, and we can see today also ensnared by political [51:38] vendettas and partisan investigations instead of seriously looking at a problem and trying [51:43] to address it. [51:44] That's what we should be doing. [51:46] There are obviously problems across the board. [51:48] Most of them relate to WinRed, but I'm sure some of them could relate to ActBlue2. [51:53] Why aren't we seriously addressing that? [51:54] Why does everything have to be the occasion for partisan exploitation and persecution instead [52:00] of actually doing the business of the public? [52:02] So we're waiting for a lot of answers from WinRed. [52:05] I hope that we will get them, and I hope that we can have real change with a real investigation [52:09] and a real hearing. [52:10] I yield back, and thank you, Mr. Chairman. [52:12] The gentleman yields back. [52:13] The gentleman from Georgia, Mr. Loudermilk, is recognized for five minutes. [52:16] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [52:18] Look, there's serious allegations that have been made against ActBlue, and they're exceptional [52:27] in these allegations, and either they're true or they're not. [52:33] And this is part of what we're here trying to determine. [52:38] But what is amazing to me is my colleagues on the other side of the aisle have not addressed [52:45] one of these allegations. [52:47] If I was you, I'd be a little offended because not a single one of them has come to your defense. [52:53] Every one of them have deflected to something else. [52:57] Let's look a little bit at some of the allegations. [53:00] The fact, ActBlue, in its own words, decided to take a, quote, more lenient approach to fraud [53:07] prevention leading up to the 2024 election. [53:10] But instead of addressing that, Mr. Morelli decides to talk about a Chinese man gambling [53:16] in a casino. [53:19] Another fact, ActBlue took action despite detecting at least 22 significant fraud campaigns on its [53:26] platform in recent years. [53:27] Instead of addressing that, Mr. Raskin wanted to talk about some Texan buying pajamas. [53:37] Another. [53:38] In the wake of the 2024 election, almost the entirety of ActBlue's legal and compliance [53:44] department was either fired, resigned, or left the company alleging retaliation for highlighting [53:50] vulnerabilities and unseriousness in addressing fraudulent donations. [53:56] Instead of addressing that or clarifying that, Mr. Garcia wanted to talk about the president's [54:04] slush fund, even though, which he left off as President Obama had the same type of fund [54:11] called the Keeps Eagle Fund. [54:13] How did that help you in your position here? [54:18] What that shows me is they're not willing to defend against these allegations because likely [54:23] they know that they're true. [54:24] This is called deflection. [54:26] This is politics at its ugliest and its dirtiest. [54:31] I do have a series of questions for you, but I want to make sure I'm respectful. [54:37] Is it Ms. Jones or Ms. Wallace Jones? [54:39] On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer the question pursuant to my Fifth Amendment [54:46] rights under the Constitution. [54:49] Okay. [54:50] Wow. [54:51] Okay. [54:52] Didn't expect that one. [54:54] I think I see where this is going, but let me go ahead and ask questions. [55:00] What role do you play in the process of Act Blue? [55:03] Well, let me back up. [55:04] I think I want to ask these first. [55:09] Ms. Wallace Jones, has the FEC ever completed an audit of Act Blue during the 2020 election [55:16] cycle? [55:18] On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer the question pursuant to my Fifth Amendment [55:23] rights under the Constitution. [55:24] Okay. [55:26] I just want to bring up, Mr. Chairman, that was a simple yes or no. [55:29] There's no allegation in that. [55:31] It was just whether an audit of Act Blue took place in the 2020 election cycle. [55:37] Does Act Blue have an application programming interface with the FEC database? [55:41] On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer the question pursuant to my Fifth Amendment [55:48] rights under the Constitution. [55:50] Okay. [55:52] This committee just passed bipartisan legislation that requires donors to include their CVV or [55:58] CVC when donating to a political campaign online. [56:02] The committee originally passed the same legislation last Congress and pointed out that Act Blue [56:07] did not require the CVV for online donations. [56:10] Soon after that, Act Blue changed its policies to require the CVV. [56:15] What was that decision connected to what this committee was doing? [56:20] On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer the question pursuant to my Fifth Amendment [56:28] rights under the Constitution. [56:33] What role do you play in the process of Act Blue changing fraud prevention policies such as [56:37] requiring a CVV or increasing the thresholds for risk tolerance? [56:42] On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer the question pursuant to my Fifth [56:49] Amendment rights under the Constitution. [56:54] Mr. Chairman, it appears that since I can't even, her name is protected under the Fifth Amendment [57:01] of the Constitution, I don't think my time is going to be more well spent, so I yield back. [57:07] The gentleman yields back. [57:09] The gentlewoman, Representative Sewell, is recognized for five minutes for the purpose of asking questions. [57:15] Mr. Chairman, I want to begin by unequivocally stating that guaranteeing the authenticity of [57:20] campaign donations requires serious and honest engagement. [57:25] I believe Congress should be making deliberate efforts to prevent foreign donors from attempting [57:32] to influence our democracy, and any investigation that would be serious use of our time and our [57:38] resources here in this committee would include an investigation not just of Act Blue, but of [57:44] when read as well. [57:47] We're holding a hearing today, quote-unquote, an investigation to prevent fraudulent donations, [57:54] but it's nothing more than a hyper-partisan witch hunt. [57:58] This investigation is just one example, one more example, of Republicans and President Trump [58:04] using power of his office to harass and intimidate anyone willing to challenge him. [58:10] The Trump Department of Justice has used its power to intimidate and victimize communities [58:16] of color, especially black Americans. [58:19] Just look at their targeted harassment of the Southern Poverty Law Center, an organization [58:23] that has worked tirelessly for decades to counter white supremacist organizations. [58:29] Over and over again, Donald Trump's Department of Justice has harassed black women with bogus [58:35] lawsuits. [58:36] We should not forget their harassment of the Federal Reserve Board of Directors, Board of [58:40] Governors, Lisa Cook, their harassment of the New York Attorney General, Tish James, and [58:46] their harassment of our colleague, New Jersey Congresswoman LaMonica MacGyver. [58:52] So it is not surprising that this Republican-led committee is now attacking Act Blue and its CEO, [59:01] Ms. Wallace Jones. [59:02] Why? [59:03] Because Act Blue is a platform that holds, that helps empower voices of thousands of millions [59:08] of American voters and supports the electoral efforts of a racially and ideologically diverse [59:14] group of Americans that are willing to stand up against the harmful actions of this President. [59:20] This investigation is clearly just an extension of President Trump's retribution tour. [59:25] And I want to apologize to you, Ms. Wallace Jones, for having to be here and under these very [59:32] hyper-partisan circumstances and not in any way looking into an investigation of fraudulent [59:41] foreign donors that would include both Republican and Democratic organizations. [59:47] This investigation is clearly an extension of President Trump's retribution tour. [59:52] In April of last year, the President issued an executive order targeting Act Blue and demanding [59:57] a Department of Justice investigation into the platform. [1:00:01] Less than two weeks after the executive order, a group of committee chairmen jointly sent a [1:00:06] letter to Attorney General Bondi that detailed their committee's, quote, ongoing investigations [1:00:12] into Act Blue, unquote, while pledging to, quote, work collaboratively with DOJ, end quote. [1:00:20] Let me repeat that again, pledging to work collaboratively with DOJ, clearly committing to using legislative [1:00:29] tools and information to advance the executive branch's law enforcement vendetta. [1:00:38] This is clearly an attempt by those with power to go after those who don't have power. [1:00:47] These are tactics of an authoritarian regime. [1:00:51] This is clearly an attempt to use the powers of the federal government to go after Donald [1:00:55] Trump's political opposition. [1:00:58] Any meaningful investigation, Mr. Chairman, would also include when read. [1:01:03] This committee should be conducting serious work. [1:01:06] We would be better spent, time better spent, trying to provide grant funding for election systems [1:01:13] across this country. [1:01:15] Or we could be considering approaches to improving the day-to-day operations of the House of Representatives, [1:01:20] which is a core jurisdictional function of this committee. [1:01:24] Instead of spending this time, using invaluable time and resources of this committee to go after [1:01:32] a witch hunt. [1:01:33] I'm embarrassed that we're using our committee time in such a way. [1:01:37] And I want to again apologize to Ms. Wallace Jones for her having to be here and listen [1:01:44] to this craziness. [1:01:47] With that, I yield back my time. [1:01:49] The gentlewoman yields back. [1:01:52] The gentleman from North Carolina, Dr. Murphy, is recognized for five minutes. [1:01:55] I'll defer my time. [1:01:56] I'm not going to waste my time. [1:01:57] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [1:01:58] The gentleman yields back. [1:02:00] The gentlewoman from Texas, Representative Johnson, is recognized for five minutes. [1:02:07] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [1:02:11] This has to be one of the most brazen, political, desperate acts I've seen in Congress, this [1:02:19] hearing today. [1:02:22] It is disappointing, it's disgusting, and it's offensive. [1:02:29] We have seen this administration and Republicans in Congress systematically go on an attack to [1:02:36] attack every aspect of elections in this country because Donald Trump is terrified that he's [1:02:42] going to lose the party's election control in 2026. [1:02:47] Terrified that Democrats are going to take the gavels back in this building to hold his [1:02:54] administration accountable for the horrific damage they've done on the American people [1:03:00] to the economy, to our deficit, to everything that this government is supposed to be responsible. [1:03:06] And instead, what they've done is attack what they've done at every level. [1:03:11] So they've offered the SAVE Act, right, to keep people from voting, to restrict access [1:03:16] to the ballot box, to attack mail-in voting, to attack people of color, to attack people [1:03:22] from being able to legally cast their ballot. [1:03:25] That wasn't good enough. [1:03:26] So what they've done is partisan gerrymandering to redraw the lines, to make it so extreme for [1:03:33] people to cast ballots because they're so terrified that they're going to lose elections. [1:03:38] We have spent billions of dollars in this country responding to redrawing maps because Donald [1:03:45] Trump and Republicans are afraid. [1:03:48] And now what are we doing? [1:03:50] Now we're going to go after the money scheme, the money path. [1:03:54] And if this was a legitimate exercise in politics, we would have Win Red and Act Blue here together. [1:04:02] They both serve a purpose, which is to seek a vehicle for people to give small-dollar contributions [1:04:08] to the political candidates of their choice. [1:04:13] But we're not here to have a legitimate, responsible dialogue. [1:04:17] We're here again because Republicans are desperate and afraid, and they're coming to attack Ms. [1:04:22] Wallace Jones, the head of Act Blue, out of a lack of seriousness. [1:04:30] Because Win Red is a corrupt organization. [1:04:36] And I've seen firsthand what Ken Paxton and the Texas Attorney General has done to abuse [1:04:42] his authority and the overwhelming depth of corruption that that man has put on the state [1:04:49] of Texas and through Win Red. [1:04:51] We've seen examples highlighted by my colleagues. [1:04:54] I'm the only member of this committee that was in the state legislature that had the privilege [1:04:58] to convict and impeach Ken Paxton when I was in the Texas House. [1:05:04] And I've seen up close and personal the depth of his corruption and what he did that through [1:05:11] Win Red. [1:05:13] So the fact that Win Red isn't here, the fact that Republicans have no desire to police their [1:05:18] own side of the street, their own house, just highlights, again, the political desperateness [1:05:25] by which we are here. [1:05:29] Because at the end of the day, now they're so scared, they've redrawn the maps, they've [1:05:33] tried to restrict people's access to the polls. [1:05:36] They're not investing in election integrity and election security to make sure that we have [1:05:40] the appropriate number of machines, the appropriate number of offices. [1:05:44] They're doing everything they can to keep our overseas people from being able to cast a ballot. [1:05:50] Now they're trying to go after the money of Democratic small donors, the little mom and pops, the little [1:05:55] teachers who send their $25 a month in to elect the candidates of their choice because they're [1:06:03] terrified that they're going to lose in November. [1:06:09] So my comment to the American people is vote, contribute through Act Blue, send money to [1:06:15] your Democratic candidates, make sure that Democrats win in November so we can stop this [1:06:21] nonsense once and for all. [1:06:23] And I yield back. [1:06:25] The gentlewoman yields back. [1:06:26] The gentlewoman from Illinois, Representative Miller, is recognized for five minutes. [1:06:31] Thank you, Chairman. [1:06:32] I want to take a moment to highlight a section of an Act Blue employee training document, Fraud [1:06:38] Prevention 101 for new associates in the workflow. [1:06:44] Your company's memo states, and I quote, if an otherwise legitimate donor uses a fake name, [1:06:52] we would want to accept their donation, end quote. [1:06:56] Can you confirm whether this is the advice that you give to your employees? [1:07:01] On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer the question, pursuant to my Fifth [1:07:07] Amendment rights under the Constitution. [1:07:10] Chairman, I yield back. [1:07:13] The gentlewoman yields back. [1:07:15] This committee is engaged in a legitimate inquiry of possible serious violations of federal election [1:07:22] law. [1:07:23] These are issues that are clearly within the jurisdiction of this committee, the Committee on House Administration, [1:07:28] and the information we're seeking is important to assist us in our legislative and oversight [1:07:33] responsibilities. [1:07:34] You've invoked your Fifth Amendment privilege against self-incrimination. [1:07:38] That is, your constitutional right. [1:07:40] I'm disappointed to say that it's clear that you're not going to answer the Committee's [1:07:43] questions today. [1:07:45] I can assure everyone, though, that the Committee will continue to take every appropriate step to [1:07:50] obtain the information that we are seeking. [1:07:53] Without objection, the witness is excused. [1:07:55] It's now in order to consider the motion offered by Mr. Morelli from New York. [1:09:05] Mr. Chairman, I have a motion. [1:09:06] The gentleman is recognized. [1:09:08] May I be here on the motion? [1:09:12] The gentleman is recognized. [1:09:13] I have a motion to table the motion to subpoena. [1:09:16] The motion to table is not debatable. [1:09:18] All those in favor of tabling signify by saying aye. [1:09:20] Aye. [1:09:21] Aye. [1:09:22] All those opposed, signify by saying no. [1:09:23] No. [1:09:24] The opinion of the chairs. [1:09:25] The ayes have it. [1:09:26] The motion table is agreed to. [1:09:27] Yes. [1:09:28] A recorded vote is requested. [1:09:30] The clerk will please call the roll. [1:09:34] Chairman Stile. [1:09:35] No. [1:09:36] Chairman Stile votes no. [1:09:37] Yes. [1:09:38] Mr. Laudermilk? [1:09:41] Yes. [1:09:42] Yes. [1:09:44] Mr. Laudermilk votes yes. [1:09:45] Mr. Laudermilk votes yes. [1:09:46] Mr. Griffith? [1:09:47] Yes. [1:09:48] Mr. Griffith votes yes. [1:09:49] Mr. Dr. Murphy? [1:09:50] Yes. [1:09:51] Dr. Murphy votes yes. [1:09:54] Mr. Carey? [1:09:55] Yes. [1:09:57] Mrs. Bice votes yes. [1:10:01] Mrs. Miller? [1:10:02] Yes. [1:10:05] Okay. [1:10:06] Mr. Morelli? [1:10:08] No. [1:10:09] Mr. Morelli votes no. [1:10:11] Mrs. Sewell? [1:10:12] No. [1:10:13] Mrs. Sewell votes no. [1:10:15] Mrs. Torres? [1:10:16] Mrs. Johnson? [1:10:18] No. [1:10:19] Mrs. Johnson votes no. [1:10:21] Ms. Clerk, I'd like to be recorded as yes. [1:10:23] If all members voted, does any member wish to change their vote? [1:10:36] The clerk will report the tally. [1:10:37] Mr. Chairman, for this vote, there are five yeses and three noes. [1:10:40] The motion carries. [1:10:44] I'd like to thank our committee members for joining us today. [1:10:47] Without objection, each member will have five legislative days to insert additional material [1:10:51] into the record and to revise and extend their remarks. [1:10:54] There's no further business. [1:10:55] I want to thank the members for their participation. [1:10:57] And without objection, the committee stands adjourned.