Patrick Clancy's Entire Cross-Exam In Ex-Wife Lindsay's Trial For Killing Children

[00:00:00] Speaker 1: Members of the jury, thank you for your patience with us. What we're going to do at this point is we're going to return to the evidence. We have witness Patrick Clancy, who testified earlier, is now being recalled, as I said, for the purpose of cross-examination. Okay. All right, counsel? [00:00:26] Speaker 2: Afternoon, Mr. Clancy. You and I have certainly met before, correct? [00:00:32] Patrick Clancy: Correct. [00:00:33] Speaker 2: Would you agree with me that I went with you and your brothers and maybe some other people into your home very shortly after the state police finished with searching and removing what they felt was evidence from the home? [00:00:48] Patrick Clancy: Yes. [00:00:49] Speaker 2: And you recall that I went into different rooms and looked at different things, and I think I took some photographs and things of that nature. Do you remember that? Yeah. So, if I may, you met Lindsay back when she was in school or was she working as a nurse? [00:01:13] Patrick Clancy: She was at the MGH Institute. [00:01:15] Speaker 2: And the MGH Institute is like Mass General Hospital nursing program, correct? Correct. She had some kind of like an accelerated course or something. [00:01:24] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. [00:01:25] Speaker 2: Had a double major. [00:01:26] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. [00:01:27] Speaker 2: She was a very good student. [00:01:29] Patrick Clancy: She was, yeah. [00:01:30] Speaker 2: And she, at a relatively young age, got her RN and was a nurse at Mass General, correct? [00:01:37] Patrick Clancy: Correct. [00:01:38] Speaker 2: And at Mass General, she was a, they call it L&D, a labor and delivery nurse, is that it? Yeah. Do you remember how many years she worked at Mass General? [00:01:51] Patrick Clancy: I think she started in 2014. [00:01:55] Speaker 2: Do you remember when she graduated from Northland nursing school? [00:02:00] Patrick Clancy: Six months earlier. [00:02:01] Speaker 2: And were you guys in a relationship then? [00:02:05] Patrick Clancy: We were, yeah. [00:02:06] Speaker 2: And had you started living together in Southie, or was that before that? [00:02:10] Patrick Clancy: Not in Southie. We didn't live together in Southie. We lived together in Quincy. Quincy. [00:02:14] Speaker ?: Quincy. [00:02:15] Speaker 2: Okay. Tell us a little bit about, you know, Lindsay, obviously, the most. How did she like being a nurse? [00:02:24] Patrick Clancy: She loved it. I think it was her dream. [00:02:27] Speaker 2: Did you say that she enjoyed her work and helping people? [00:02:31] Patrick Clancy: Definitely. Yeah. [00:02:33] Speaker 2: So there's been some commentary here from the government about that she was anxious because she had to go back to work, like she didn't want to go to work, she was lazy, or whatever the case may be. Objection. [00:02:44] Speaker 1: This is sustained, if you could rephrase that. All right. [00:02:47] Speaker 2: So I'll strike lazy then. That she didn't want to go back to work, but I believe you said in answer to the DA, there was a reason that you could see that she was anxious about going back to work, correct? [00:03:00] Patrick Clancy: Correct. [00:03:01] Speaker 2: Now, was she anxious about going back to work, to your knowledge, because she just didn't want to work? No. [00:03:08] Patrick Clancy: What was the reason? She struggled to be away from our kids at a young age. [00:03:13] Speaker 2: So when you guys ultimately moved to Duxbury, did you have children then? [00:03:20] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. [00:03:21] Speaker 2: And as the years went by, you obviously had more children. Ultimately, you got three children, correct? [00:03:27] Patrick Clancy: Yes. [00:03:28] Speaker 2: You told us about her birth with Cora. Yeah. [00:03:32] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. [00:03:33] Speaker 2: Cora, it was a bit of a rough breath. Is that right? [00:03:37] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. She didn't have time to get an epidural, and she bled a lot. [00:03:43] Speaker 2: Do you, in the years that you lived with Lindsay as boyfriend and girlfriend, fiancees, and then ultimately husband and wife, do you recognize your handwriting? [00:03:53] Patrick Clancy: I haven't seen it in a long time, but, so I'm not sure. Okay. [00:04:00] Speaker 2: While the counsel's looking at that, is it your understanding, would she take notes, lists, Yeah. For work and home and things of that nature? We would, yeah. [00:04:18] Speaker ?: Excuse me. [00:04:19] Speaker 2: I'm going to approach you, sir, with this document and just ask if you can recognize the handwriting. [00:04:29] Patrick Clancy: Yeah, that looks like her handwriting. [00:04:31] Speaker 2: Looks like Lindsay's handwriting? Yep. So, I'm going to run away after this. [00:04:38] Speaker 1: Any objection? Yes. All right, if I could see counsel. [00:04:44] Speaker 2: Can you see that, Mr. Planson? Yeah. Pull it away a little bit. Looking at this, what does it appear to be to you, if you know? It appears to be notes of deliveries that she was involved with. [00:05:04] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. [00:05:05] Speaker 2: You see the first one? What's the date, if you can read it? I can't. [00:05:09] Patrick Clancy: It says May 11th, 2015. [00:05:11] Speaker 2: Okay. And does that indicate, would that, to your knowledge, be around when she started working as a labor delivery nurse? [00:05:18] Patrick Clancy: Um, I thought she started a little early, but I'm not sure. Okay. [00:05:23] Speaker 2: You see the name of the little girl that was born on that date that was her first delivery? Yeah. [00:05:29] Patrick Clancy: What's the name? It's Cora. [00:05:31] Speaker 2: And is that the reason you guys named Cora Cora? Cora? [00:05:37] Patrick Clancy: It was, yeah. [00:05:38] Speaker 2: Can you tell the jurors, as a husband living with Lindsay over the years, what kind of a mother was she? [00:05:57] Patrick Clancy: Um, she's very dedicated. She did everything. Um, she started reading them books at three months. And, um, she made up songs for them. Um, I remember she used to make green eggs and ham for Cora. I guess she liked that book. [00:06:19] Speaker 2: Is that one of the Dr. Seuss books? Yeah. [00:06:23] Patrick Clancy: Um, she brought them to music classes. [00:06:25] Speaker 2: You're quite the musician yourself. Isn't that right? I play a few instruments. [00:06:30] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. [00:06:31] Speaker 2: You play guitar? [00:06:32] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. [00:06:33] Speaker 2: Um, in your home, one of the things that appears to be striking is that almost every room, other than maybe a bed, well actually a bedroom, but was dedicated to children. Would you agree with that? [00:06:48] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. [00:06:49] Speaker 2: Now you didn't have a fancy dining room, right? [00:06:51] Patrick Clancy: We did not, no. [00:06:52] Speaker 2: What did you have in the dining room? [00:06:54] Patrick Clancy: We had the table that I grew up with. [00:06:56] Speaker 2: How about stuff on the wall in the different rooms? Did you, did she put things, wall hangings on the walls for the kids? [00:07:03] Patrick Clancy: There was a lot of art projects, um, stickers, things like that. Yeah. [00:07:10] Speaker ?: Hanging from the wall? [00:07:13] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. [00:07:14] Speaker 2: Um, one of the photographs that the government had. Was, photograph that, excuse me, you can identify for us. Is this photograph a fair and accurate depiction of one of your rooms? [00:07:38] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. [00:07:39] Speaker 2: And what room would that be? [00:07:40] Patrick Clancy: That's the playroom. [00:07:41] Speaker 2: Is that off of this room? [00:07:43] Speaker 1: Any objection? No. All right, that may be admitted. [00:07:46] Speaker ?: Exhibit 58. Thank you. [00:07:48] Speaker 2: By May, what if exhibit 58 up so the jurors in his own, I can see it. Um, there's some kind of like, what's as though it's boxed out window. So, are we standing in the kitchen looking into that room through that boxed out window? [00:08:10] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. [00:08:11] Speaker 2: Um, and all those objects obviously that are in that room would be kids' toys and things of that nature, right? Right. Do you recognize this photograph as being just a sample or sampling of the kids' rooms? [00:08:30] Speaker ?: Yeah. [00:08:31] Patrick Clancy: Um, I think it was Dawson's. Okay. [00:08:35] Speaker 2: Any objection? [00:08:36] Patrick Clancy: No. [00:08:37] Speaker 2: All right, that may be admitted. [00:08:38] Speaker 1: All right, thank you. [00:08:39] Speaker ?: Um, this one here has a bunch of stickers. [00:08:40] Speaker 2: It's got Bruce Lightyear or whatever his name is over to the right and it's got an alphabet, A, B, C, D, things of that nature, correct? [00:08:57] Patrick Clancy: It's, yeah, it's Paw Patrol. Okay. [00:09:00] Speaker 2: Um, and again, following through on that same theme, you recognize this photograph as well being another portion of that wall? Yeah. And what are those, decals? Yeah, they're just big stickers. [00:09:12] Patrick Clancy: Okay. [00:09:13] Speaker 2: In the interest of, uh, time your honor, I would just say, you also identify this as being one of the kids' walls. Would that be what you were telling us would be art projects? Yeah. And they were hanging on the wall? [00:09:28] Patrick Clancy: Correct. [00:09:29] Speaker 2: Who hung on the wall? [00:09:31] Patrick Clancy: I think Lindsay did. [00:09:33] Speaker 2: And, uh, would she also take hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of pictures of the kids? [00:09:39] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. [00:09:40] Speaker 2: Um, do you recall her putting together a little collage saying newborn one month, two months, three months, four months, and then hanging that on the wall? [00:09:52] Patrick Clancy: Yeah, she did it for each kid. [00:09:54] Speaker 2: And which child was that? [00:09:57] Patrick Clancy: That one's Dawson. Dawson. [00:09:59] Speaker 2: Did you have occasion to see her interact with Dawson as a- [00:10:11] Speaker 1: Okay, did you wish to introduce those photographs? [00:10:14] Speaker ?: Thank you, I appreciate it. [00:10:16] Speaker 2: Um, can you describe for the jurors her relationship with Dawson? I know he's a little kid, but I mean, did she, to your observation, did she love Dawson? [00:10:32] Patrick Clancy: She loved Dawson very much. [00:10:34] Speaker 2: Did she resent him? No. You are familiar with, as her husband, Lindsay's, let's say, use of social media, such as Facebook, right? Yes. Can you tell us, would you look at her Facebook a lot and the pictures that she would post? [00:11:03] Patrick Clancy: Um, to be honest, no, not really. Okay. [00:11:06] Speaker 2: Were you able to identify any of her postings on Facebook? Um, probably. Representative, over the years, over a period of time, uh, I'm gonna ask if you can identify this particular Facebook. And if we may approach briefly? [00:11:31] Speaker ?: Sure. [00:11:32] Speaker 2: Yeah. Council. Mr. Clancy, you know, and if I ask a question and it's difficult, or if you need a break, I'm sure that, you know, we'll certainly give you a break. [00:11:55] Speaker ?: Yep. [00:11:56] Speaker 2: If I push too hard, just let me know. Yeah. [00:12:00] Speaker ?: Yeah. Appreciate it. [00:12:02] Speaker 2: Okay, so again, just representative of the Facebook postings that Lindsay would post as the mother of your children. This, for example, would be July of 2018. [00:12:15] Patrick Clancy: Yep. [00:12:16] Speaker 2: Can you tell the jurors who that would be? [00:12:18] Patrick Clancy: That's Cora. [00:12:19] Speaker ?: That's Cora and Dawson. Okay. Again, the end of July, 2021. That's Cora and Dawson. Okay. Again, the end of July, 2021. That's us with Cora and Dawson. Okay. Okay. Okay. [00:12:26] Speaker 2: Looking forward, say June of 2021. Can you tell us who that is? It's Cora and Dawson. Okay. Again, the end of July 2021. That's us with Cora and Dawson. August 2021. Dawson. End of August 2021. It's Cora and Dawson. August, again, of 21. It's Cora and Dawson. September 1 of 21. It's Cora and Dawson. Is that first day of preschool? Yeah. September of 21. That's Lindsay and Cora. Was that some kind of like a family fun day, if you recall, when there was like lots of things for kids to get in? [00:13:54] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. [00:14:00] Speaker 2: End of September 21. [00:14:06] Patrick Clancy: No, that's Dawson. [00:14:09] Speaker 2: Dawson. Okay. September 21. And Cora was born when? [00:14:14] Patrick Clancy: May 2022. [00:14:15] Speaker 2: Okay. And Christmas Eve, December 24th of 2021. [00:14:23] Patrick Clancy: That's Cora's birthday. [00:14:24] Speaker 2: Okay. And that's her birthday party that year? [00:14:26] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. [00:14:27] Speaker 2: Now that's 2021, right? [00:14:30] Patrick Clancy: Correct. [00:14:31] Speaker 2: Fast forward one year, and that would be December Christmas of 2022, right? [00:14:38] Patrick Clancy: Right. [00:14:39] Speaker 2: And was that when you guys had the birthday party for Cora at the trampolines? [00:14:44] Patrick Clancy: No. [00:14:45] Speaker 2: When was that? [00:14:46] Patrick Clancy: I believe it was January 7th. [00:14:48] Speaker 2: Okay. But that would have been for that particular birthday, right? [00:14:52] Patrick Clancy: That was for the birthday with friends, because most people weren't available on Christmas Eve. Christmas Eve, right. Yep. Okay. [00:14:59] Speaker 2: And then, down. Again, September 1st of 22. Remember when that was taken? [00:15:10] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. That's with Callan and Dawson. [00:15:13] Speaker 2: And was that your yard? [00:15:14] Patrick Clancy: That's in the backyard. [00:15:15] Speaker 2: Backyard. This would have been September of 22, obviously right before 22, right? [00:15:22] Patrick Clancy: Right. [00:15:28] Speaker 2: And, again, for this one here, July of 22, can you tell me, Firas, you guys had a pretty good summer that year? [00:15:37] Patrick Clancy: It was a good summer, yeah. That was on Cape Cod. [00:15:40] Speaker 2: This picture was on Cape Cod? [00:15:42] Patrick Clancy: Yep. Okay. [00:15:46] Speaker 2: A couple of points that I wanted to raise, sir, with you. We have an email sent from your, is it Surface Pro, is that what it's called? [00:16:11] Patrick Clancy: That was my laptop, yeah. [00:16:16] Speaker 2: I'm going to approach you, sir, and ask if you can identify this as being an email that you sent. [00:16:36] Speaker 1: Yeah. [00:16:36] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:16:38] Speaker 2: Put it off of that, you're on. [00:16:39] Speaker 1: Any objection? [00:16:41] Speaker 2: I'd just like to know the purpose. Purpose? Yes. I'd say you'd approach this. [00:16:45] Speaker 1: No. [00:16:46] Speaker 2: You could approach, sidebar. [00:16:47] Speaker 1: Sure. Yeah. No objection, Your Honor. Okay, thank you. That may be admitted. [00:16:56] Speaker ?: Okay. Thank you. [00:16:56] Speaker 1: That may be admitted. [00:17:14] Speaker 2: Well, while we're waiting for the copy, let me just move on to something else. Do you recall yesterday the district attorney was asking you a question or stated to you that on December 2nd of 2022 that you and your wife went to a fancy hotel in Boston and she had a massage and you both had a big dinner. Do you recall her asking you that question? [00:17:47] Speaker ?: Yeah. [00:17:48] Speaker 2: And in fact, would you agree, sir, that you did not, in fact, go to a fancy hotel on December 2nd of 2022 being a Saturday night before your anniversary of the 3rd? You stayed at home, didn't you? [00:18:00] Patrick Clancy: We did. We stayed at home. [00:18:02] Speaker 2: And when you were asked that question by the VA, she wanted the inference to be that Lindsay Clancy in December of 22 was so relaxed that she wanted to have a massage and have a big dinner in a hotel. In fact, she was in a bed in a bedroom that night, wasn't she? Objection. [00:18:18] Speaker 1: Sustained. If you could rephrase that. [00:18:22] Speaker 2: I'm approaching you with what it has to be from one of the photographs that the district attorney had showed you yesterday with her in a mask. And I believe the doxing and the masks, right? And then basically. [00:18:52] Speaker ?: Yep. [00:18:56] Speaker 2: Now that photograph, sir, was actually preserved, if you will, on the LaptopPro computer. Isn't that right? Did she send that to you? [00:19:12] Patrick Clancy: She sent it to my computer. [00:19:14] Speaker 2: Okay. [00:19:15] Patrick Clancy: I don't know. [00:19:16] Speaker 2: And where was she? Do you remember when that picture was taken? Let me just show you the scene. That's what the photograph was. [00:19:23] Patrick Clancy: It looks like they're at the doctor. [00:19:25] Speaker 2: At the doctor's office. Okay. And can you tell me the date that that picture, right here in the corner of the clock, what date was that picture taken was that picture taken on your computer? [00:19:39] Patrick Clancy: It's December 2nd. [00:19:40] Speaker 2: The same date that we're talking about, correct? Correct. And what time was the picture sent? So, when you're dealing with these things on the computers, it's a little hard sometimes to understand what they're depicting. Right there, you see that there? That's the date that we're talking about, right? [00:20:20] Patrick Clancy: Right. Just to clarify, though, it looks like that was on an iPhone. [00:20:24] Speaker 2: Oh, I'm sorry. iPhone. Okay. It was sent to you, though. [00:20:27] Patrick Clancy: Correct. [00:20:28] Speaker 2: And it was on December 2nd, the date that the DA was suggesting you were in Boston having massages and dinner, right? Objection. That was December 3rd. All right. [00:20:39] Speaker 1: Wow. If you can answer that. [00:20:43] Speaker 2: Do you recall, sir, that she also had sent you the same day, or taken a picture, of what appears to be Cora's Christmas list, wish list. Is that what that is? [00:21:03] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. [00:21:03] Speaker 2: And if you look at the record on that, that was sent... If you can read that. [00:21:23] Patrick Clancy: It's December 2nd at 6.13 p.m. [00:21:26] Speaker 2: 6.13 p.m. And then, finally, if you look at the metadata that is apparently buried in the photograph, it gives latitude and longitude of where the photograph was taken. Is that right? If you're familiar with metadata, I would imagine. The way you can't do this. [00:21:50] Speaker ?: Use the tape. Use the tape. [00:21:54] Patrick Clancy: The tape on the thing tells you where to put the... [00:21:57] Speaker ?: Oh. [00:21:58] Patrick Clancy: Yeah, that's our address. [00:22:02] Speaker 2: Okay. And that would be the metadata with the latitude and the longitude that shows you where these photos were taken, correct? [00:22:08] Speaker 1: Correct. [00:22:10] Speaker 2: About the needs, Your Honor. [00:22:12] Speaker 1: So, I think we had Exhibit 76. They're making a copy of that. Do you want to mark that? I don't know if we marked that yet. That was the earlier one, just so everybody could keep this straight. And this latest email would be Exhibit 77? [00:22:31] Speaker 2: That would be the letter, the email? Yeah, the email right here. I'm going to delete the people that are on the email, if I may, Your Honor, as we mark it as an exhibit. Uh, let me approach you. Does it indicate the date and the time and the very time of the date of the date? [00:23:00] Speaker ?: Yes, I'm going to do that. [00:23:00] Speaker 2: I'll do that. [00:23:01] Speaker ?: I'll do that. [00:23:01] Speaker 2: Thank you, Your Honor. [00:23:02] Speaker ?: I'll do that. [00:23:03] Speaker 2: Thank you, Your Honor. And this is an email from you, too, and we will, uh, delete the, uh, people that are on the email, if I may, Your Honor, as we mark it as an exhibit. Uh, let me approach you. So does it indicate the date and the time of the very time you sent that email to your staff members? It does, yep. Tell the jury is what the date was? [00:23:34] Patrick Clancy: Uh, it's January 24th at 5:24. [00:23:37] Speaker 2: And that was sent from your, your Surface Pro? [00:23:40] Patrick Clancy: Uh, I don't know, actually. It could have been sent from my iPhone. [00:23:44] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:23:45] Speaker 1: That would be Exhibit, Exhibit 76. [00:23:50] Speaker 2: Now, when was Callan born? [00:24:04] Patrick Clancy: May 26th, 2022. [00:24:06] Speaker 2: My memory serves that it was a good birth. It was not an easy birth, but I mean, there were no complications? [00:24:11] Patrick Clancy: There were no complications. [00:24:12] Speaker 2: And were both of you very happy with Callan being born healthy? [00:24:16] Patrick Clancy: Yeah, we felt very lucky. [00:24:18] Speaker 2: And then in that summer of '22, you had one of the best summers that you've had, right? Yeah. What happened in September, October of 2022? [00:24:32] Patrick Clancy: Um, Lindsey's mental health started to deteriorate. [00:24:37] Speaker 2: And when you say that, sir, what is it that you, as your husband, observed? [00:24:41] Patrick Clancy: Just increased stress and anxiety. [00:24:44] Speaker 2: And did she, as a result of that, go to see or reach out for help to see someone? [00:24:51] Patrick Clancy: Yes. [00:24:52] Speaker 2: And who was that? [00:24:53] Patrick Clancy: I believe it was Jennifer Tufts. [00:24:55] Speaker 2: Now, Jennifer Tufts is a psychiatrist? [00:24:59] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. [00:25:00] Speaker 2: And where is she located? [00:25:02] Patrick Clancy: I never went to her office, um, somewhere on the South Shore. [00:25:07] Speaker 2: Do you remember when Lindsey went to see Jennifer Tufts? [00:25:12] Patrick Clancy: I don't remember the exact date. I think it was sometime in September. I wasn't really involved at the beginning of Jennifer Tufts. Yes, of course. [00:25:24] Speaker 2: Do you recall that the difficulties or the troubles, so to speak, began in the end of September into October of '22? [00:25:40] Patrick Clancy: Yeah, it was pretty gradual. [00:25:43] Speaker 2: But do you remember when the DEA asked you yesterday whether or not you used your computer to Google suicide in, I think it was August of '22? Do you remember her asking you that question? Yes. And do you remember your response? No, honestly. [00:26:03] Speaker ?: You didn't Google that, did you? I don't think I did, no. [00:26:05] Patrick Clancy: No. But I'm going to show you, sir, a web history of your computer. [00:26:19] Speaker 2: Have in mind that the question was asked of you as to whether or not in August of '22 you Googled suicide and you responded no, right? Correct. The inference being, I guess, that back in August of '22, she wouldn't Google, apparently, right? [00:26:34] Patrick Clancy: Sure. [00:26:35] Speaker 2: You know a guy named Tim Hall? [00:26:38] Patrick Clancy: I think you mean Tom Hall? [00:26:40] Speaker 2: Yeah, Tom Hall, I apologize. Who's Tom Hall? [00:26:43] Patrick Clancy: He's a musical artist. [00:26:45] Speaker 2: He's a what artist? [00:26:47] Patrick Clancy: Like a musical, like a country artist. [00:26:49] Speaker 2: Country? Is he like a guitar playing guy or a singer? [00:26:52] Patrick Clancy: Yeah, was. [00:26:53] Speaker 2: When you say was, what happened to him? [00:26:56] Patrick Clancy: He committed suicide. [00:26:58] Speaker ?: He committed suicide. [00:26:59] Speaker 2: And I'm going to show you, sir, your Surface Pro records back in August of '22. Do you recall Googling the name Tom Hall so you could access one of his new albums and new records? [00:27:19] Patrick Clancy: I do remember briefly listening to Tom Hall's music. [00:27:24] Speaker 2: Now you've never seen, I haven't, you haven't seen this document before, correct? Correct. All right, and this would be, I'm sure you're probably familiar with it, when you get a phone dump or computer records dump, you get a print of all the sites that somebody would go on Google, Wikipedia, things like that. [00:27:43] Patrick Clancy: Right. [00:27:44] Speaker 2: If you can look to the right, down a little bit, and you see I think it says Tom Hall? [00:27:50] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. [00:27:51] Speaker 2: What does it say on Tom Hall? It says his Wikipedia page. [00:27:56] Patrick Clancy: Yep. Let me see here. [00:28:00] Speaker 2: Let me see here. So, here, we've got, so that shows you when somebody Googles, and then it goes Wikipedia, and you see where up above it says suicide methods? Yeah. Now you didn't, as you said to the DA, you didn't Google suicide methods, right? [00:28:41] Patrick Clancy: I didn't Google suicide methods, no. [00:28:43] Speaker 2: But in fact, sir, when you Googled Tom Hall, it took you to the Wikipedia page, and it said that he died, right? [00:28:50] Patrick Clancy: He did, yeah. [00:28:51] Speaker 2: And then you clicked on the Wikipedia page, and it went into a hyperlink. You know what a hyperlink is? Yeah. Hyperlink. Yeah. What is a hyperlink, just so I know? [00:29:02] Patrick Clancy: So like in Wikipedia, it would be a word that's highlighted in blue, and it goes to a website. [00:29:08] Speaker 2: Okay. Okay. So, if I suggest to you, sir, that as you move down on your searches that afternoon, that you were looking at Tom Hall, that it brought you to ways to commit suicide, suicide, Tom Hall, Google search again, Tom Hall, all on that date at the same time. And you were just looking to see about the guy because he killed himself, right? [00:29:38] Speaker 1: Yeah, I think so. Okay. [00:29:40] Speaker 2: Yeah. [00:29:41] Speaker 1: Any objection? [00:29:42] Speaker 2: Can I just see the packet? [00:29:44] Speaker ?: Oh, yeah. [00:29:45] Speaker 2: Again, Your Honor, I got that discovery from the DA, so it's... [00:29:51] Speaker 1: Well, it's an email from his expert about us. Well, just take a look at it, and we'll kind of go from there. What will I say? [00:29:59] Speaker ?: While she's looking at that, I just asked her, what does he use? What does he use? What does he use? What does that mean? Hold a second. Hold a second. Wait until she gets a chance to finish. [00:30:12] Speaker 2: While she's looking at that, I just asked, what is a URL? What does that mean? Hold a second. We actually get a chance to finish. So while that's being marked Exhibit E for ID, basically that would at least refresh your memory, sir, that in fact inadvertently that you touched the Wikipedia thing for suicide, but it was for Tom Hall, the singer, right? Sounds like that was the case. Okay. Do you recall what medication Lindsay was put on by Dr. Tufts? [00:31:12] Patrick Clancy: She started with Zoloft. [00:31:14] Speaker 2: Now, counsel had asked you about whether or not Lindsay was on Zoloft or any SSRI antidepressant medication in the past. Do you remember that question? Yeah. Do you remember her asking about that you were having a conversation with her and she said that she was going on Zoloft and that she had already been to Tufts or was it Tufts that she got the script from? Correct. Okay. She told you that, right? Yeah. She didn't hide that from you, right? [00:31:45] Speaker ?: No. [00:31:46] Speaker 2: And it was, you were at a wedding. Is that right? You were walking down the street, the two of you together, like at the end of the night. She basically told you that she had to use the meds. [00:31:55] Patrick Clancy: It was earlier in the day, it was before the wedding, but yeah. [00:31:59] Speaker 2: Okay. And do you recall how, to your observation, how dedicated was she to taking her medications as instructed by the numerous doctors that she ultimately saw? [00:32:15] Patrick Clancy: She always took them as instructed. [00:32:18] Speaker 2: Do you remember, did she in fact have a diary that she kept of the milligrams, the type of medication, the date that she took the medication, and what, if any, reactions that she had to it? Do you recall that? [00:32:41] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. [00:32:42] Speaker 2: And do you remember where that was kept? Did she keep it in any particular place? [00:32:47] Patrick Clancy: I think she kept it in the kitchen. [00:32:48] Speaker 2: In the kitchen. So I'm going to show you a photograph that the state police took in your house. Is this a fair and accurate picture of your kitchen? [00:33:02] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. [00:33:03] Speaker 2: So that kind of shows a bunch of books that are in a, like a cabinet or something, right? Right. I'm going to show you this enlarged spine, if you will, of a book. I ask if you ever saw that before. [00:33:34] Patrick Clancy: I don't recall seeing this. [00:33:36] Speaker 2: Would you agree, sir, that this book is in fact the same book, the same coloring, that was in the bunch of books in your kitchen? [00:33:48] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. [00:33:49] Speaker 2: And on this book, you see what the caption of the book is. [00:34:06] Patrick Clancy: Yeah, it says good moms have scary thoughts. [00:34:11] Speaker 2: And I'm going to approach you with this document, sir, which would be a number of pages from the book, the cover of the book, and the inside of the book. You've never seen that before? I don't recall seeing this. Okay. So with that I understand, Your Honor, I will not offer this at this time. Hold on. [00:34:50] Speaker 1: Council Comer, if you could, if you could show what it is that you can. [00:34:58] Patrick Clancy: I'm sorry, you said you're not offering it? [00:35:00] Speaker 2: Well, they don't have the foundation. [00:35:01] Patrick Clancy: Okay. [00:35:02] Speaker ?: All right. [00:35:03] Speaker 1: Any objection? No. Okay. [00:35:07] Speaker 2: So can I put it in? Yes. Okay, great. Thank you. No objection to him not offering it. [00:35:15] Speaker ?: All right. [00:35:16] Speaker 2: If I could just look at it. Yeah. [00:35:19] Speaker 1: Why don't I, why don't we do this? Why doesn't everybody come over here with that? We can kind of figure out where we go. [00:35:29] Speaker 2: I would offer the book, well, a copy of the book. No objection. [00:35:33] Speaker 1: Okay. That may be a bit. [00:35:35] Speaker 2: Who was the next doctor, if you recall, that Lindsay went to consult with? [00:35:56] Patrick Clancy: Julie Paul. And is this a doctor or a nurse practitioner? [00:35:58] Speaker 2: I don't remember with Julie Paul. It was very brief. Okay. Now, is it fair to say that Julie Paul was at South Shore? [00:36:02] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. Correct. And Julie Paul was a friend of your mother's. [00:36:05] Speaker 2: Is that right? Yeah. [00:36:07] Speaker ?: I think there are acquaintances. [00:36:07] Speaker 2: Yeah. And your mother was a nurse also at South Shore Hospital? In L&D. [00:36:10] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. L&D. [00:36:12] Speaker 2: L&D. Yeah. L&D labor and delivery. Same thing. Okay. And your mother was good enough to refer Lindsay to this person to consult with, right? Yeah. [00:36:33] Patrick Clancy: I don't think it was a formal referral. I think she just said this is a specialist that you might want to talk with. [00:36:39] Speaker 2: All right. And did she go to see the specialist? [00:36:42] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. [00:36:43] Speaker 2: And did you go with her or was this a... [00:36:45] Patrick Clancy: No, I never met Julie Paul. [00:36:46] Speaker 2: I should track myself up. Were these like in-person meetings or are they like, what do you call them, Zoom meetings [00:36:52] Patrick Clancy: and... Most of the meetings were Zoom. The only in-person that I'm aware of was with Rebecca Gelata. [00:36:58] Speaker 2: Rebecca Gelata. Okay. And that was because you insisted on it, right? [00:37:02] Patrick Clancy: I thought it was warranted at that time, yeah. [00:37:05] Speaker 2: Right. Because you were pretty much at your wits end with the 15-minute Zooms and you wanted to sit down eyeball to eyeball and talk to this person, right? [00:37:14] Patrick Clancy: I hadn't attended any prior to that. I just wanted to get clarification. I wanted to see if we could get on the same page. [00:37:22] Speaker 2: All right. So now, Lindsay's on Zoloft from Dr. Tufts, the psychiatrist, correct? [00:37:30] Patrick Clancy: Correct. [00:37:31] Speaker 2: And then that runs into when, when you guys, she goes to see Nurse Paul. [00:37:40] Patrick Clancy: Can you clarify? What was it? Can you clarify what you're asking? [00:37:44] Speaker 2: Yeah. What month? [00:37:46] Patrick Clancy: When was it that she saw Nurse Paul? Um... Maybe October, but I'm not sure. [00:37:50] Speaker 2: Okay. When she saw Nurse Paul, do you remember where she saw Nurse Paul or was it a video thing? I don't know. [00:37:56] Patrick Clancy: I wasn't involved. [00:37:57] Speaker 2: Okay. Did Nurse Paul prescribe medication to her? A lot if he knows. [00:38:05] Patrick Clancy: Uh, I don't know off the top of my head. [00:38:08] Speaker 2: Right. Um, do you recall whether or not, to your opinion, that she had any reactions to the Zoloft that she had been placed on by Dr. Tufts? Injection. [00:38:20] Speaker 1: I don't know any observations that were made. [00:38:23] Speaker ?: Right. [00:38:24] Speaker 2: So it's not guesswork. It's observations. Anything you saw and observed. Yeah. [00:38:29] Patrick Clancy: It seemed to align with her, uh, insomnia symptoms. [00:38:33] Speaker 2: Now, the insomnia, inability to sleep, was that a significant problem from your observations with her? Yeah, it was a huge problem. And when you say huge problem, uh, was there one point when she was on medication from Tufts that in fact she had gone 48 hours, I think, without sleep? Yeah. And that was disturbing to her? [00:38:52] Patrick Clancy: Yeah, and it was just hard to function. And how about you? Was it disturbing to you? I just wanted her to get sleep and feel better. [00:39:00] Speaker 2: Now, during that period of time, she then went and saw the next doctor, a nurse practitioner, which we talked about, which would be, uh, Nurse Practitioner Paul at South Shore, right? Right. Now, after seeing Dr. Nurse Practitioner Paul, if you remember or know, did you observe? Did she seem to get better or did she seem to get worse? [00:39:23] Patrick Clancy: It would be hard to say. It was, I think it was a week at most. So, um, it's really hard to say in that short a timeframe. Sure. [00:39:34] Speaker 2: And when you say a week at most, you mean that that's like she was seeing Nurse Practitioner Paul for about a week? Yeah. [00:39:41] Patrick Clancy: And, I mean, she may have only seen her once. It was very brief. It was very brief. And then she got reassigned somewhere, so. [00:39:47] Speaker 2: And the reason, if you know, that she got reassigned somewhere would be Dr. Nurse Practitioner Gelata, right? [00:39:54] Patrick Clancy: Right. [00:39:55] Speaker 2: Same practice, right? Right. And the reason was because Paul moved on to another job, right? [00:40:03] Patrick Clancy: Right. [00:40:04] Speaker 2: So, Lindsay wasn't out doctor hunting. She was referred by the nurse practitioner that was referred to you guys by your mom because Paul was leaving, right? [00:40:15] Patrick Clancy: Yeah, she just switched doctors in the same practice. All right. [00:40:18] Speaker 2: Now, she sees Dr. Gelata, right? Right. Did Dr. Gelata, to your knowledge, put her on medication? Yeah. And what was the medication, if you know? [00:40:29] Patrick Clancy: Mainly Seroquel and Benzodiazepines, Ativan. [00:40:37] Speaker 2: No. Benzodiazepines, they're addictive, right? Apparently. [00:40:44] Speaker ?: Objection. [00:40:46] Speaker 2: I'll allow it. And a Benzo would be, for example, Ativan, correct? [00:40:53] Patrick Clancy: Correct. [00:40:54] Speaker 2: Now, Seroquel, she was placed on Seroquel as well. Is that correct? Right. And to your observation, again, you're not a doctor, what you saw of your wife, was she affected positively or negatively by the Seroquel that she was on? [00:41:13] Patrick Clancy: It appeared that she was affected very negatively, and she's reporting that she was getting worse on the Seroquel. [00:41:20] Speaker 2: And do you know, did she report that to Dr. Gelata? Yeah. [00:41:25] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. [00:41:26] Speaker 2: When she would consult with Dr. Gelata, prior to you actually going, do you know, were they all on video? [00:41:35] Speaker ?: If you know. [00:41:36] Patrick Clancy: Yeah, they were all on Zoom. [00:41:38] Speaker 2: Okay. Do you have any opinion for the jury as to approximately how long these meetings on Zoom would be with the nurse practitioner? Probably around 20 minutes. At some point, do you recall that you went with Lindsay to see Dr. Gelata, is that right? Yes. And do you remember, if you remember, when that was? Early December. In early December of 2022, can you tell the jury from your observations, how did Lindsay appear? How was she acting? How was she faring? [00:42:14] Patrick Clancy: She was extremely sleep-deprived and just highly anxious. [00:42:21] Speaker 2: Was there a number of occasions that you would actually see her on the sofa rocking back and forth with her head under a pillow? Yeah. Did you report that and other symptoms to Dr. Gelata? [00:42:34] Patrick Clancy: Lindsay did. [00:42:35] Speaker 2: So when was it, if you recall, that you went and saw Dr. Gelata with your wife, person to person? [00:42:44] Speaker ?: When was it? [00:42:46] Patrick Clancy: Yep. Early December. I think it was December 6th. [00:42:50] Speaker 2: And do you remember, you have a pretty good memory about this, do you remember what medication she was prescribed by Gelata? [00:42:57] Patrick Clancy: Coming out of that meeting? Yep. Yeah, she increased the Seroquel significantly. And then I, and then she prescribed her Valium to help taper off of the benzos. [00:43:11] Speaker 2: Taper off the benzos? [00:43:13] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. [00:43:14] Speaker 2: To your knowledge, did Lindsay go to doctors to seek out benzodiazepines or drugs just because she was a drug addict? [00:43:25] Patrick Clancy: No. No. Lindsay, I think wanted to, she definitely didn't want to take any more benzodiazepines and definitely didn't want to take any more Seroquel. I think that it wasn't really a matter of trying to get off the medication. It was just trying to get on the right medication. Okay. [00:43:41] Speaker 2: Okay. Let's say mid-December, what observations, if any, heading up towards Christmas, did you guys endure? She seemed to get worse. [00:43:54] Patrick Clancy: The Seroquel was increased to 400 milligrams. [00:43:58] Speaker 2: 400? [00:43:59] Patrick Clancy: Yep. [00:44:00] Speaker 2: By Dr. Gelata. [00:44:01] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. And then the idea behind that was it would help with sleep. But she didn't get better. She, she got worse. [00:44:11] Speaker 2: Do you recall that at one point she went to a place called Women's and Infants? [00:44:21] Speaker ?: Yeah. [00:44:22] Speaker 2: In Rhode Island. [00:44:23] Patrick Clancy: Right. [00:44:24] Speaker 2: Women and Infants Center for Women's Behavioral Health. Do you recall that? Right. Do you remember when she actually went to Women's Behavioral Health? [00:44:34] Patrick Clancy: Sometime in mid-December. I don't know the exact date. [00:44:38] Speaker 2: All right. I suggest to you, sir, that I have certified copies of the Women and Infants medical records, indicating that on December 20th of 2022, that was the day that you dropped her off at Women's. Does that refresh your memory? [00:44:53] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. [00:44:54] Speaker 2: Your Honor, I'd like to offer the certified copies of the Women and Infants hospital records. [00:44:59] Patrick Clancy: I would object. We don't have a copy of those. [00:45:02] Speaker 2: All right. You don't have them? Can I see everybody here? And where did you go skiing? [00:45:12] Patrick Clancy: What you said? [00:45:14] Speaker 2: At some point in the afternoon, did you receive a phone call? Yeah. Was it from Lindsey? [00:45:19] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. [00:45:20] Speaker 2: And as a result of the phone call, what did you do? [00:45:24] Patrick Clancy: She said that you need to come pick me up and the doctors here want to talk to you. Have you come in and talk for a bit? [00:45:33] Speaker 2: Okay. Did you talk to them? Yeah. Do you remember who you talked to? [00:45:37] Patrick Clancy: I don't remember their names. [00:45:38] Speaker 2: Do you remember the conversation? Did you describe or indicate what her symptoms were at that point in December 20th of 2022? [00:45:47] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. The conversation was they didn't. Objection. Yes. All right. Sustained at this time. [00:45:55] Speaker 2: Okay. Did the people at women's and infants facility in Rhode Island prescribe any medication to your knowledge? [00:46:05] Patrick Clancy: I don't think so. [00:46:06] Speaker 2: Did they provide any counseling or anything? [00:46:09] Patrick Clancy: I think they tried to. I think they tried to. But they felt that it wasn't the right fit for Lindsey. [00:46:14] Speaker 2: Do you recall that in fact it was because of the drugs? They weren't sure what symptomology would be because of the drugs? Objection. [00:46:24] Speaker 1: Okay. [00:46:25] Speaker 2: Do you recall whether or not the people at women and infants in Rhode Island reached out to Dr. Gelata? I don't think so. Well, if he knows. [00:46:34] Patrick Clancy: I don't think they did, no. [00:46:35] Speaker 2: And was it one day or half a day that she went to women and infants in Rhode Island? [00:46:45] Patrick Clancy: It was half a day. Half a day. [00:46:47] Speaker 2: So after you pick her up and you bring her home, it's now you and the kids and Lindsey, and it's days before Christmas, right? Yeah. [00:46:59] Patrick Clancy: And her parents were there. [00:47:00] Speaker 2: Why were her parents there? [00:47:02] Patrick Clancy: They were visiting, trying to help out, and I took Dawson to watch. She said they stayed home with Cora and Kellen. [00:47:11] Speaker 2: Now, during that timeframe in December of '22, maybe a little bit before, maybe after Thanksgiving, did your mom and dad and Lindsey's parents come to your house and try to help out with the kids? [00:47:28] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. I think it was separately, though. Yeah, of course. [00:47:31] Speaker 2: It would be separate. I mean, what would they do? [00:47:33] Patrick Clancy: Just be there, help out, play with them, get takeout, play Scrabble. [00:47:45] Speaker 2: Did Lindsey's mother and father actually stay there and sleep in the basement for-- [00:47:49] Patrick Clancy: They did, yeah. [00:47:53] Speaker 2: Were you aware personally, let me back up, you and Lindsey as husband and wife would in effect sleep in the same bedroom, is that correct? Yeah. There was an occasion, though, that she said to you about you go downstairs and then I think she ended up downstairs? [00:48:06] Patrick Clancy: Yeah, for the purposes of her getting better sleep. [00:48:09] Speaker 2: And for her purposes of getting better sleep, were you aware that on one occasion she used a gummy, a sleep aid gummy? Did you know that? [00:48:23] Patrick Clancy: I don't recall that, but we did have them in the house. [00:48:26] Speaker 2: Okay. Now, to your knowledge, was Lindsey a person that liked to smoke the weed and use the CBDs, oils, and all that stuff, or did she not imbibe in that? [00:48:37] Patrick Clancy: No, she didn't smoke. [00:48:39] Speaker 2: So, you had these gummies in the house, sleep aid, right? [00:48:44] Patrick Clancy: I mean, some people might call them a sleep aid. Okay. [00:48:48] Speaker 2: Um, heading into the holidays of '22, do you recall where you spent Christmas? [00:48:58] Patrick Clancy: Um, I think it was at our house. We celebrated Cora's birthday, um, and then I think we actually went down to Wallingford, Connecticut, to be with her parents after. [00:49:12] Speaker 2: Her parents? Yeah. Okay. Um, and then heading into January of '23, who did she then see for doctors or nurse practitioners, if you know? [00:49:26] Patrick Clancy: After she got back from McLean? [00:49:29] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:49:30] Patrick Clancy: She switched back to Jennifer Tufts. [00:49:32] Speaker 2: Now, before she switches back to Tufts in January, on New Year's of 2022, 2023, you guys drive to Boston, go to MGH, and ultimately she turns herself into McLean Hospital, right? [00:49:52] Patrick Clancy: Right. [00:49:53] Speaker 2: Now McLean Hospital is basically a locked ward facility, correct? [00:49:58] Patrick Clancy: Correct. [00:49:59] Speaker 2: Was she allowed to just wander around and leave the place whenever she wanted? [00:50:03] Patrick Clancy: She couldn't leave. Couldn't leave? But she, inside, she could go to different areas. [00:50:07] Speaker 2: Can you tell the jury what her state of mind was as she went to McLean Hospital with her husband on New Year's of '23, at that point? [00:50:14] Patrick Clancy: Um, she was scared. She didn't want to go. But I think it was, um, the second time we went to the ER and, um, I said, you have to go. [00:50:24] Speaker 2: Now, at McLean Hospital, I know you, you visited with her. Is that correct? Yeah. Uh, district attorney asked you yesterday about the excellent care that she was provided with all these counselors and therapists, and you indicated that it was your understanding that she was playing with clay and coloring, right? Right. Can you describe for the jury what McLean was like to you as a husband visiting his wife? In other words, were there doctors, were there nurses, were there people in the hallways? [00:50:53] Patrick Clancy: Um, what I saw was, uh, it looked like mainly nurses. It was, um, the tail end of COVID, so they were mostly behind this plastic-covered area. Um, and, um, it could have been just the time of day that I visited, but, um, people were hanging around, watching TV, playing with clay. [00:51:14] Speaker 2: Um, do you know whether or not she saw a doctor, a psychiatrist, ultimately, from McLean Hospital? [00:51:23] Patrick Clancy: I was not aware of that. The only one I was aware of was the doctor on the second to last or final day. [00:51:30] Speaker 2: And what was that, Dr. Goodhart? Yeah. And did you speak to Dr. Goodhart? [00:51:37] Patrick Clancy: I ended up calling her. Um, I wanted to see what her evaluation was. Um, and, um, so I gave her a call and we, we spoke and, um, she said, you know, she's, she's clearly depressed. Sustained. [00:51:56] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:51:57] Speaker 2: Um, so you, you spoke to Dr. Goodhart. Yep. Uh, did Dr. Goodhart, to your knowledge, prescribe any medication? [00:52:06] Patrick Clancy: Dr. Goodhart. I think she recommended medication and then. [00:52:10] Speaker 2: How many medications did she recommend? [00:52:12] Patrick Clancy: Dr. I, I don't know if she recommended multiple. I, I want to say it was Cymbalta. Um, but she said, you know, check with your doctor and make a decision. [00:52:24] Speaker 2: So when Lindsay left, it was because she wanted to leave one day early because of Cora's birthday. Is that right? [00:52:32] Patrick Clancy: I didn't think it was, I don't think it was one day early. I think she had a five day stay, which at the time was my understanding was that was pretty standard. And, um, uh, yeah, she did want to attend Cora's birthday. [00:52:44] Speaker 2: So there's no doubt, sir, in your mind that when she was discharged from McLean that, you got these, right? McLean? Yes. That when she was discharged from McLean Hospital, it was not against medical advice. The doctors gave her, go help and let it go with you, right? [00:53:02] Speaker 1: Right. [00:53:03] Speaker 2: And off of the McLean records. Any objection? [00:53:05] Speaker 1: No. They may be admitted. [00:53:07] Speaker 2: Now, you know, when you go to the hospital and you get out of the hospital, they give you a bag and you've got medications and a little card and says, thank you for being here, stuff like that. Did you guys get anything from McLean at all? I don't think so. Did you get any recommendations other than the doctor suggesting that you might want to try Cymbalta? Did they give you a script? [00:53:33] Patrick Clancy: I don't think so. [00:53:35] Speaker 2: You know what Cymbalta was? [00:53:37] Speaker ?: No. [00:53:38] Speaker 2: Do you remember Dr. Goodhart telling Lindsay to Google it? [00:53:42] Patrick Clancy: I think that's accurate. [00:53:44] Speaker 2: Yeah. In fact, she Googled hundreds of times. Yeah. Medication, right? Yeah. So when you guys go home, and now it's January, obviously, you had the party for Cora, correct? Yeah. You guys had friends over, friends that you guys knew? [00:54:05] Patrick Clancy: Friends came to the party, which was at a place in Plymouth. [00:54:10] Speaker 2: Would you agree with me that Lindsay had a number of friends from actually grammar school through high school through college that she stayed in touch with over the years? [00:54:19] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. [00:54:20] Speaker 2: And you as well? [00:54:21] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. [00:54:22] Speaker 2: And they're good friends. Like you still would see them and you guys would do dinner and things of that nature, right? Yeah. You know, probably one of your friends, I think it was one of your friends, it might have been one of her friends, actually named her in January or around that timeframe to be Godmother or take care of their child if anything bad happened to them and they were dead, right? [00:54:44] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:54:45] Speaker 2: Remember that? [00:54:46] Patrick Clancy: I... My brain has been foggy for the last couple years, but... Okay. [00:54:50] Speaker 2: I understand. Yeah. Okay. Um, in January, as time went by, do you recall that she would actually continue to take notes of her medications that she was taking, right? [00:55:08] Patrick Clancy: That sounds like something Lindsay would do. [00:55:11] Speaker 2: I kept a diarrhea or a little log, right? Yep. I'm approaching you, sir, with this and asking if you can identify this. [00:55:19] Speaker ?: Are you ready? [00:55:20] Patrick Clancy: Yes. Yes. [00:55:22] Speaker 2: And when you say yes, and I'll put it on the little screen, what is it? [00:55:32] Patrick Clancy: It's, um, the dosage of medication that she took and how she's feeling. [00:55:38] Speaker 2: So this is kind of like a little medical diary that she was keeping? Yeah. For example, you know, here you see on that five milligrams Valium 200 Seracol, slept well, horrible thoughts in the morning. In the morning, right? Yeah. And did she at some point, I think the DA had asked you. I'm going to offer this, if I may. Any objection? [00:55:58] Speaker 1: No. That may be admitted. [00:56:00] Speaker 2: There was an occasion where she told you in the presence of her mother that she was having horrible thoughts, right? [00:56:07] Speaker ?: Right. And you told us about that yesterday. Um, and that took, it was quite an emotional thing for her to do that, right? Right. After that timeframe, um, you continued on, you were working in the basement, right? Yeah. [00:56:12] Speaker 2: I shouldn't say basement. It was a finished place, right? Yeah. I shouldn't say basement. [00:56:16] Speaker ?: It was a finished place, right? [00:56:16] Speaker 2: Yeah. It was a finished basement, yeah. It was a finished basement, yeah. It was a finished basement, yeah. And that was where you worked on a regular basis, is that right? [00:56:21] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. [00:56:22] Speaker 2: You were having horrible thoughts, right? Right. And you told us about that yesterday. Um, and that took, it was quite an emotional thing for her to do that, right? Right. Yeah. So after that timeframe, um, you continued on, you, you were working in the basement, right? Yeah. I shouldn't say basement. It was a finished place, right? A finished basement, yeah. And that was where you worked on a regular basis. Is that right? [00:56:49] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. [00:56:50] Speaker 2: Would that be a 40 hour week or longer? [00:56:52] Patrick Clancy: It varied, but yeah, roughly 40 hours. [00:56:55] Speaker 2: And I know it was maybe COVID, tail end of COVID, but one of the other reasons that you did that was so you could be home and help out. Is that right? [00:57:04] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. I worked from home since 2018. Okay. Um, but yeah, I built an office down there. [00:57:10] Speaker 2: So you were always there. Yeah. Not always, but you were down there when you would work. [00:57:14] Patrick Clancy: When I wasn't traveling. Yeah, I was there. Okay. [00:57:17] Speaker 2: So when would you travel? Tell us about that. [00:57:20] Patrick Clancy: Uh, I really didn't travel actually, um, much during COVID, just towards the end. And once in November. [00:57:27] Speaker 2: November of what year? [00:57:29] Patrick Clancy: 2022. [00:57:30] Speaker 2: November of 2022. [00:57:31] Patrick Clancy: But before that, I traveled extensively. [00:57:33] Speaker 2: Well, let's look at November of 2022. November of 2022 is a month before she's telling you and her mother that she was having thoughts about hurting the children, right? Right. November of 2022. And you traveled. Where did you travel to? New York. [00:57:51] Patrick Clancy: New York. [00:57:52] Speaker 2: And how long were you there, sir? [00:57:54] Patrick Clancy: Um, two nights. [00:57:56] Speaker 2: And who took care of the kids? [00:57:59] Patrick Clancy: Uh, Lindsay. Sorry? Lindsay took care of the kids. [00:58:06] Speaker 2: Lindsay. So for two days, two nights, a month, and a week, or so, before she killed the children, she was home with the kids for two days. Is that right? Right. Fair to say that you also had your friends that you would do brunch with on occasion, Sundays, or weeknights, or whenever, guys' night type thing? Yep. And you'd be out with your friends. If she wanted to kill the kids, she certainly could have done at that time when you're out, right? [00:58:39] Patrick Clancy: In theory. [00:58:41] Speaker 2: As opposed to sending you on a three-minute trip to CVS and a nine-minute trip to a restaurant, you were away for two days in November, and on a number of occasions for brunch, as well as skiing, right? You're a pretty active guy. Yeah. I'm going to approach you, sir, in another one of the books that was in the kitchen cabinet, [00:59:05] Speaker ?: I believe. [00:59:06] Speaker 2: Do you remember if you ever saw this one? [00:59:14] Patrick Clancy: I don't think so. [00:59:16] Speaker 2: But is it going to say, sir, that she had a number of books, you know, about parenting and things like that? And this one here was Pregnancy and Postpartum Anxiety Workbook. Did she have workbooks that you were aware of, or work diagrams and things like that? [00:59:42] Patrick Clancy: She had books of different sorts. [00:59:46] Speaker 2: So you can't identify this as being in the kitchen, right? [00:59:54] Patrick Clancy: I don't recall seeing that book. [00:59:56] Speaker 2: Can I have anxiety? [00:59:57] Patrick Clancy: Sure. [00:59:58] Speaker ?: Thank you. [00:59:59] Speaker 2: Thank you. By the way, I will draw that. I'm going to approach you, sir, with this document. [01:00:20] Speaker ?: Excuse me. [01:00:21] Speaker 2: I'm going to ask if you can identify it. [01:00:30] Patrick Clancy: It says postpartum depression and anxiety patient information sheet. [01:00:34] Speaker 2: And if you go towards the end there, if there's any fear to be for writing in it? [01:00:44] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. [01:00:45] Speaker ?: Okay. Is that off on this one? [01:00:49] Speaker 1: No objection. All right, that may be admitted. [01:00:56] Speaker ?: No, sir. I'm looking at this item. It's got a bunch of flowers on the front. I'm looking at this item. It's got a bunch of flowers on the front. I'm looking at this item. It's got a bunch of flowers on the front. I'm looking at this item. It's got a bunch of flowers on the front. It's got a bunch of flowers on the front. It appears to be a notebook. It's your understanding that the state police went in your house and they seized all sorts [01:01:20] Speaker 2: of items such as this. Yeah. So we don't have originals that the police do. Right. Fair and accurate. Yeah. Is that the caption that you were referring to? Yes. Postpartum depression and anxiety. Yes. And at the end of this particular document, you will be going to go to the front. I'm going to go to the front. I'm going to go to the front. I'm going to go to the front. I'm going to go to the front. You're going to go to the front. I'm going to go to the front. I'm going to go to the front. I'm going to go to the front. I'm going to go to the front. [01:01:40] Speaker ?: I'm going to go to the front. I'm going to go to the front. I'm going to go to the front. [01:01:43] Speaker 2: I'm going to go to the front. And then I'm going to go to the front. I'm going to go to the front. Yes. Postpartum depression and anxiety. [01:01:49] Patrick Clancy: Yes. [01:01:50] Speaker 2: And at the end of this particular document, you would agree, sir, that it has writing? [01:01:59] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. [01:02:00] Speaker 2: And whose writing is that? [01:02:02] Patrick Clancy: Lindsay's. [01:02:03] Speaker 2: And is this like a book or notes that she would take documenting on a daily basis any effect that she had from postpartum? [01:02:14] Patrick Clancy: It appears to be the case. [01:02:16] Speaker 2: Yeah. Your Honor, I would offer the records of Dr. Jennifer Tufts. Ask the mental health records. [01:02:41] Speaker 1: No caption. [01:02:42] Speaker 2: All right. They may be admitted. I'm going to have to, I think, maybe talk to the DA about this, because I do have a lot of tabs and notes in this one. I know we have a clean copy, right? We have a clean copy we were planning to admit, so that's no problem. [01:02:56] Speaker 1: Good. Okay. So we'll enter that, and then before, we can then substitute it with a clean copy. [01:03:00] Speaker 2: Thank you. One of the things that you had identified yesterday was the document that you obtained from CVS. Is that correct? Yes. It sets forth all of the medications that were purchased by Lindsay, by prescription from the physicians that she had seen during that period of time, correct? Correct. And you indicated yesterday that the police had seized a number of pill bottles, and then you also had a number of pill bottles. Is that right? [01:03:59] Patrick Clancy: Right. [01:04:00] Speaker 2: And the pill bottles that you had, do you recall, what are the circumstances that you had them in a bag in your car? [01:04:12] Patrick Clancy: The reason I had them in a bag is because sometimes a provider would adjust medications. So, for example, I do remember Lindsay had a prescription of Ativan, and then a few days later they wanted to increase the dosage because it wasn't effective. So what they would do is they would say, give that old prescription to your husband, he'll discard it, and then continue taking from the new prescription. [01:04:41] Speaker 2: When the DA yesterday went through that there were scripts and there were pills or the 30 count, but then there's 27 and three were gone, but that's because she wasn't taking her medication. That's not the case. It was what you were told to do, right? [01:04:56] Patrick Clancy: Correct. Yeah. Without that context, it paints a different picture. [01:05:03] Speaker 2: Exhibit 2 would be the pills that you had turned in, I believe. Is that correct? Did it ruin your bag in your car? [01:05:13] Patrick Clancy: Right. [01:05:14] Speaker 2: I know you can't tell from looking at the back. [01:05:16] Patrick Clancy: I remember it's exhibit 2 though. Okay. [01:05:18] Speaker 2: Wednesday, January 24th, one of the troopers located four medication bottles, and at some point, on the 26th, at about 2:30 in the afternoon, bottles were then documented by the police. When was it, if you know, that you turned these items in to the police? [01:05:41] Patrick Clancy: I believe it was after the event. I don't remember the exact date, but I remember I told them I do have other prescriptions in my truck still, and I gave them to them. [01:05:54] Speaker 2: Okay. So the police already went in with a search warrant. They already seized all the drugs that they could find in the house, in the kitchen, in the bedroom. Were there drugs in the kitchen, by the way? Yeah. [01:06:04] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. Yeah. [01:06:06] Speaker 2: They're all over the place, right? [01:06:07] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. [01:06:08] Speaker 2: And they seized them, right? Yeah. And then you, to be cooperative, told the police that you also had pills in your car, and you went to the DA's office and getting to Attorney Sprague and the state police, right? Right. [01:06:22] Patrick Clancy: But to be clear, those were discontinued prescriptions. [01:06:24] Speaker 2: These are the ones that she stopped? Correct. [01:06:27] Patrick Clancy: All right. [01:06:28] Speaker 2: And then you had new prescriptions, and there were new prescriptions that were prescribed to her, right? [01:06:33] Patrick Clancy: Yes. [01:06:34] Speaker 2: Now, when I met with you in the house, long after the state police had gone and finished their search, you recall that we went up to the bedroom, and I removed this from the nightstand right next to the bed? [01:06:47] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. [01:06:48] Speaker 2: Can you tell us what that is? What is this? Is it a drawer, obviously? [01:06:52] Patrick Clancy: That's the drawer that goes into the nightstand. [01:06:53] Speaker 2: And inside the drawer, sir, do you recall that there were a number of items that I see, Trazendol, Lindsey Clancy, prescribed on January 5, '23. [01:07:13] Speaker ?: We had a pain. We had a pain. January. We had a pain. [01:07:17] Speaker 2: A hundred milligrams prescribed for Lindsey Clancy, December 21st. Or as a parent. [01:07:21] Speaker ?: We're all empty too, right? Yep. [01:07:23] Speaker 2: It's easier what she shot down with that lemonade or water or whatever was in the cup as she ground up these pills, right? [01:07:38] Speaker ?: What was she shot down with that lemonade or water or whatever was in the cup as she ground up these pills, right? [01:07:41] Speaker 2: La Matrigine, prescribed to Lindsay Clancy, December 16th, '22. Murtazepine, prescribed to Lindsay Clancy, January '23. Those were in this draw and they were all empty, right? Right. You observed that, right? There's something else that was in the draw. Do you recognize that? Yeah. What is it? It's her Apple Watch. Her Apple Watch. This is the Apple Watch that apparently the police used to walk the stairs, downstairs, hyperate, things of that nature, right? Yeah. They never even seized it, did they? They left it in the draw, right? Apparently. What is this item, sir? If you can identify that for us. It's a face mask for sleeping. To sleep? Yeah. Now, you had mentioned something, I think, about pillow spray. What is that? [01:08:43] Patrick Clancy: Uh, she bought some pillow spray. It apparently helps you sleep. [01:08:48] Speaker 2: Um, and did you see her using that on a regular basis? [01:08:53] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. Yes? Yeah, she did. Yes? Yeah, she did. [01:08:57] Speaker ?: Okay. Your Honor, I would offer the draw. [01:09:00] Speaker 1: I could just see. Yeah. I think there's a, there's a watch on the side there. Oh. [01:09:19] Speaker ?: No objection. [01:09:20] Speaker 1: Okay. Do you want to, you put, you want to put that in as one exhibit? Sure. [01:09:26] Speaker 2: Just one. Just one. It's the only one she had. The police never seized it, right? Correct. And the drugs that were in the drug, the empty drugs and the pill bottles from January, December, 22, 23, the police never seized it, did they? No. I'm showing you an item, sir. Like a little green piece. Have you ever seen that before? Yeah. We'll tell the jury what it is. Objection. We could go to sidebar. Yeah, if I see council sidebar, please. To your knowledge, sir, was she advised by nurse practitioner Tufts to keep a nighttime dump diary of all of her thoughts and write them down so that she had something that she could refer to? Not that I'm aware of. Would you rather see her writing notes in a diary or like a thing with dates on it, November 23rd, for example, things of that nature? [01:11:05] Patrick Clancy: I knew she kept notes, but I didn't see her doing it. [01:11:08] Speaker 2: I'm going to show you this document item. Ask that appears to be her handwriting. Yeah. And does that contain indication as to her state of mind, particular date or dates thereafter? Yeah. Just take a look at the other page and make sure that she can write. [01:11:31] Speaker ?: Yeah. Can I see it, please? Yeah. Can I see it, please? Yeah. Can I see it, please? Yeah. [01:11:37] Speaker 1: Yeah, I got it from the state police, so it's -- I assume you guys have it. No objection. [01:11:39] Speaker 2: Okay. [01:11:40] Speaker ?: That may be admitted. [01:11:40] Speaker 2: Okay. [01:11:41] Speaker 1: Okay. [01:11:42] Speaker ?: Okay. [01:11:42] Speaker 2: Okay. Okay. [01:11:44] Speaker ?: Okay. [01:11:45] Speaker 2: Okay. from the state police, so it's, I assume you guys have it. No objection. Okay, that may be admitted. I'm going to show you another document, Sarah, if used to be a document, do you recognize her handwriting? That document with dates September 29th, for example, 22? Yes. And is that, can you tell us what that appears to be, sir, if you know? [01:12:20] Patrick Clancy: It looks like a schedule for Callen. [01:12:23] Speaker 2: And the schedule for Callen, that would be, what, like when he's eating or sleeping or something like that? [01:12:29] Patrick Clancy: Yeah, and naps, yeah. [01:12:30] Speaker 2: So, for example, where it says September 29th, there it is, 22, and then it makes reference to Callen, last fed with a timeframe, there's a bunch of pages like that that go forward on those dates. Is that what that is? [01:12:46] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. [01:12:47] Speaker 2: Put them down for a nap, 9:35, with a smiley face, things like that, right? [01:12:51] Patrick Clancy: Right. [01:12:52] Speaker 2: Is this typical for Lindsay, that she would document these things as a new mother? [01:12:57] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. [01:12:58] Speaker 2: Was she being controlling, in your opinion, of her child and of you, by doing this schedule? [01:13:03] Patrick Clancy: No, I found it helpful. [01:13:05] Speaker 2: Any objection? No objection. No objection. [01:13:08] Speaker 1: All right, that may be admitted. [01:13:10] Speaker ?: Any more. [01:13:13] Speaker 2: One of the things, sir, that the district attorney had asked you about is the exhibits of the, I think it was the window in the bedroom. You said it was 20 feet drop to the ground? [01:13:30] Patrick Clancy: Right. [01:13:31] Speaker 2: Is that right? This is a photograph of the same one you already introduced, but I just don't know where it is. So this is the photograph of the house, and you can identify that, right? [01:13:45] Patrick Clancy: Yeah, that's the living room window. [01:13:48] Speaker 2: Okay. And the window that you're talking about, that's 20 feet up, would be on the very top of that picture, correct? [01:13:58] Patrick Clancy: Correct. [01:13:59] Speaker 2: Now, when you identified this picture, but I can't see you. You see that there's some kind of an orange ball? It appears to be an orange ball underneath the silt? Yeah. It appears to be red marks or red spots, like possibly blood above it. [01:14:31] Patrick Clancy: Yep. [01:14:32] Speaker 2: Can you tell the chairs what that little orange ball is? [01:14:35] Patrick Clancy: Yeah, we had a woodpecker who would peck at the house and create holes. That's why I paired some of the other sections, too. And I took some foam and filled the hole. [01:14:46] Speaker 2: I'd offer that, Your Honor, just a continuity. [01:14:56] Speaker 1: No objection. That may be admitted. [01:14:58] Speaker 2: And I'd also, if I may, just the top picture, I believe, is also here where it looks like fingerprints or blood on the edge of the window on the second floor. You see that? That's from the house? Yeah. [01:15:12] Patrick Clancy: Excuse me. [01:15:13] Speaker 2: You're turning right. Yeah. Okay. I'm talking about the Hornet thing right here. And then this is, I see on this top here. Okay. You can see on the top of this window here. It's not a very good picture. Underneath the Hornet thing, you can see it, but in the exhibit, you can see there's like blood drops or blood smears there. Yeah, I see it. That's the first floor window that's directly underneath the second floor window, right? Right. [01:15:51] Speaker 1: Any objection? [01:15:52] Speaker 2: Yeah. [01:15:53] Speaker 1: They may be admitted. I'm all set. [01:15:57] Speaker ?: Thank you, sir. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I'm all set. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Thank you. I'm all set. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Thank you. [01:16:06] Speaker 2: I'm all set. Thank you, sir.