Part 2: Cross-examination of prosec witness Financial Forensic Analyst Atty. Alex Cabrera

[0:00] you may proceed with your cross-examination then you can drink your water first sir it's okay [0:25] are you good sir thank you uh good morning attorney cabrera good morning honorable christine [0:35] just don't call me honorable because i'm not an honorable i'm not part of the prosecution [0:41] um sir i hope you had a great weekend now you are here to testify as a forensic accountant [0:53] of the prosecution correct that's right and your testimony is to prove the allegation of unexplained [1:03] wealth against the vice president sarah zimmerman duterte under article two of the articles of [1:09] impeachment correct that's right and sir aside from professional competence all cpas are bound by [1:21] integrity and objectivity in conducting their forensic audit you agree with that sir okay now [1:30] we have a copy of your cv and your cv shows that you are the chairman of the justice reform [1:41] initiative or jir do you confirm that sir yes ma'am okay and as the chairman of jri is it fair to state [1:52] that you have knowledge of the statements released by your organization of course ma'am okay thank you [1:57] sir are you aware that uh your organization the jri issued a statement on may 14 2026 calling that the [2:08] impeachment court convene and proceed with the impeachment trial of the vice president sarah [2:13] duterte are you aware of that sir yes ma'am we are showing you a copy of that statement and we are also [2:19] showing that statement on screen you confirm now sir that that is the statement that was issued by jri [2:32] that is correct okay thank you sir your cv also shows that you are the chairman of the integrity [2:42] initiative inc correct that's right ma'am when it was still an active organization thank you sir i was [2:48] the last chairman thank you sir and as the chairman okay you are aware that it was organized in 2009 [2:58] by five leading business organizations and one of which is the makati business club correct that's [3:04] right thank you sir your honor i'm very sorry to interrupt may i just request a copy of the [3:09] document that was shown to the witness thank you assisting council is um directed to furnish a copy to [3:16] opposing council through assisting council as well and through the back of the witness preferably a copy of [3:21] the documents that uh we show we have shown to the witness are being provided to the prosecution your [3:27] honor so i will not interrupt uh later your honor if other documents will be shown to the witness [3:33] may i request that we immediately be given copies as well thank you uh the other documents are already [3:39] part of the uh examination or the direct examination of mr cabrera attorney jockno don't worry are you [3:49] aware sir that the that the makati business club issued a statement on june 9 2025 calling for the convening [3:58] of the impeachment court i'm aware and we are showing you a copy of the statement and we are also [4:08] showing a copy on screen council is being shown a copy of the statement uh do you confirm that that [4:24] is the statement that was issued by the makati business club sir on june 9 2025 i'm aware of the [4:32] call for convening the impeachment court but i do not have the time to read the rest of the statement [4:37] to confirm that this is such statement okay thank you sir that will suffice now you also listed uh [4:44] chairmanship in the ethics committee of the management association of the philippines or map correct [4:50] that's right you're of course aware that on june 11 2025 the map voiced out its concern over the move to [4:59] return vp saras impeachment case to the house of representatives are you aware of that statement [5:06] i am aware we are showing you a copy of the statement and the statement is also being uh [5:14] shown on screen do you confirm that that was the statement that was issued by the map [5:21] on june 11 2025 sir again um i am aware of the statement but i don't have time to read to confirm [5:28] that is the entire statement okay that would suffice sir but still at that time you are the chairman of the [5:33] ethics committee of the management association of the philippines thank you sir now despite of all of [5:39] these publications which were released by your organizations you still accepted your appointment [5:47] by the public prosecutors for you to render forensic accounting services on the supposed unexplained [5:55] wealth of the vice president sarah zimmerman duterte correct that's right okay thank you sir um with the [6:02] indulgence of attorney christine can detect kindly adjust the cursor on the screen it's right at the [6:09] forehead of attorney christine okay thank you you may proceed attorney christine thank you your honor [6:16] now sir let's go to your appointment by the panel of prosecutors uh last friday we were provided with [6:23] your appointment letter uh by the panel of the prosecutors we will show the letter on screen but [6:30] we have covered your signature sir uh both your signature and attorney louis's signature just a [6:39] clarification for the record your honor if as i recall it was the witness who produced a copy of [6:44] the engagement letter the prosecution panel did not provide it to him but it was part of the testimony [6:51] of the witness definitely kindly show a copy of the letter to the witness now do you confirm that that [7:06] is your appointment letter by the public prosecutors thank you sir now that letter is undated do you [7:14] confirm that sir on 2026 po wala pong nice okay thank you sir on the second paragraph on the second [7:27] paragraph of that letter can you zoom the second paragraph okay i think that's enough on the second [7:40] paragraph there seemed to have a planned vacation to europe for two to three for two to three weeks and that [7:50] will start tomorrow sir is that right do you confirm that uh i i confirm okay my question is uh quite [7:59] personal have you packed your bag sir uh okay what time will be your flight tomorrow sir it's not tomorrow [8:09] it's it's on wednesday it's on wednesday okay okay so this is not accurate this uh letter the date is on [8:16] wednesday and not yet tomorrow okay okay based on this document sir uh it was the panel of prosecutors [8:25] who approached you to be their forensic expert is is that correct that is correct it's uh the [8:31] prosecutors thank you sir and who among the members of the panel of prosecutors approach you sir if you [8:37] can recall yeah it is a congressman shell jockno congressman shell jockno and you have known congressman [8:45] shell jockno before uh by reason of your appearances in public hearings is that a correct uh statement [8:52] no but um the first time i met uh congressman shell jockno i mean face to face we sat on a panel [9:01] together um in the good governance advocates of the philippines and that was way back in that was not [9:11] way back that was um just recent last year okay that's so that's uh last year um sir the engagement [9:24] uh provides that your engagement is pro bono the letter provides that and uh when was this letter [9:32] handed to you sir if you can recall this engagement letter yes sir june also in june 2026 now do you [9:42] recall a specific date in june when the letter was handed to you early early june early june okay [9:51] first week or second week yeah thereabouts first week all right sir and uh the engagement letter does [10:00] not outline the procedures to be undertaken by you do you confirm that yeah i confirm um did you send [10:07] another letter sir confirming the procedures yes sir okay okay sir thank you for that answer now so you [10:25] confirm that this is the only letter that covers the engagement engagement of your services correct [10:31] that is true okay okay now the statement letter also says that you may be assisted by such persons that [10:37] you select do you confirm that sir i confirm and how many people have assisted you in drafting and [10:45] finalizing your forensic report sir no first half po uh dalawa lang pero no second half panel na [10:54] delay po yung pagdating ng mga bank accounts nagdag po kami ng ako ng tatlo salamat po now all of [11:02] these people are also rendering their services pro bono meaning for free okay thank you sir um last friday [11:12] you testified on the results of your assessment on the alleged unexplained wealth of the vice president [11:19] and her spouse manasa scarpio correct tama pa and this allegation is found in article 2 of the [11:26] articles of impeachment correct allegation po of under article 2 of the articles of impeachment sir okay [11:35] thank you sir in fact uh your for forensic report if you have a copy sir you can refer to it your [11:43] forensic report dated uh october 2 2026 can a copy be shown please but we are showing a copy to the witness [11:54] concluded concluded concluded that the respondent vice president had an unexplained wealth of 817.8 [12:09] million pesos tama pa that is your allegation in your forensic report that is the results of my [12:17] review po yung allegations po ay wala pong basihan ng ibig sabihin okay okay okay we'll accept uh your answer [12:23] sir now on page 39 you concluded that the vice president committed constitutional violations [12:33] year on year by reason of her supposed unexplained wealth correct okay thank you sir now your report [12:40] cover covers the year 2022 to 2025 correct thank you sir and that is during the respondent's tenure as a [12:48] vice president that is right that no longer covers the prior years from 2007 to 2021 correct the unexplained [12:57] wealth that we covered is for the period 22 to 25 thank you sir and uh apart from the constitution sir [13:05] you also cited the following laws which were allegedly uh violated by the respondent page 39 of your report [13:15] with your kind indulgence sir uh we will go through this loss uh one by one now you cited ra 1379 [13:25] uh pwede pong incorrect yung pagkakasabi nyo po were violated or may have been violated okay thank you [13:33] sir for that were violated or may have been violated these laws include uh first ra 1379 and if you recall [13:45] sir based on your recollection this burns the civil forfeiture of any property and lawfully acquired [13:51] by a public officer correct upper ra 6713 is also known as the code of conduct and ethical standards for [14:00] public officers and employees right upper ra 3019 is of course the anti-graph and corrupt practices act [14:08] right upper and ra uh 12009 is the new government procurement act correct that's right [14:16] okay thank you sir for that confirmation now your report also cited the omnibus rules on statement [14:23] of assets and liabilities and net worth correct if you can recall okay which if you can recall also [14:33] the civil service commission adopted through csc resolution uh number two five zero zero six three [14:39] dated june 25 2025 if you can just recall it sir okay and that was in footnote three of your report [14:51] and uh that omnibus sal and rules took effect on september 29 20 25 correct okay thank you sir [15:00] now just a person some personal questions sir if you don't mind um you testified last friday that you were [15:08] with isla lipana and company or formerly joaquin cananan sir from 1988 until you retired in 2025 [15:18] correct sir that's correct okay you have not been employed in the government sir correct okay thank you [15:24] sir and you have not been appointed to any public position that is right either okay thank you sir [15:34] you have not been employed with the civil service commission okay thank you sir how about the office [15:40] of the ombudsman okay and also koa yes thank you sir and uh not having employed with the government [15:49] sir um with all due respect also you have not executed and filed a salen with the office of the ombudsman [15:56] correct thank you sir even if such is the case you still opine that the vp committed violation [16:04] in the declaration she made she made in her salen is that right sir even without having been employed [16:12] with the government not having executed any salen you still opine that the vp committed violations in [16:19] the declaration she made in the salen thank you sir now let's go back to your employment with isla lipana [16:27] sir uh by the way isla lipana changed its its um name or firm firm name joaquin cananan rather change [16:37] its firm name to isla lipana in 2005. that is correct okay thank you sir um now you started as a [16:45] staff accountant at joaquin cananan and company correct about on july 7 1988 correct that's right thank you [16:54] sir uh if you can just share uh may i know the name of your partner in charge at that time sir [17:01] if that's okay for you to share if not it's okay [17:03] okay [17:13] and your work as a staff accountant [17:17] uh was to conduct an external audit of financial statements of your [17:21] your clients in making conanan that's right in short you are a staff auditor correct that's right [17:26] though in the modern um version or in uh in the later uh structure of pwc or isla lipana this staff [17:37] accountant is what we call as an associate in the audit and assurance department that's right thank you [17:43] sir in fact uh the current uh the current i will no longer mention his name okay i was about to mention [17:52] the name of the current audit and assurance managing partner of of isla lipana now going back to your [17:59] work experience sir you served as a staff accountant from july 7 1988 to 13 1989 correct that's right and [18:08] that is for about a year one year thank you sir thereafter uh you transferred to the tax services department [18:16] of uh walking or isla lipana on june 1 1989 that's right thank you sir because of that transfer you [18:24] became a tax technical consultant that was your job description then thank you sir and today we call [18:32] that tax technical consultant as a tax associate is that a correct attribution sir thank you sir um [18:40] i will no longer ask the name of your tax partner in charge um and your report this uh new tax partner sir [18:49] this tax partner of yours okay okay you no longer report to your previous audit and assurance partner [18:56] in charge correct that's right but uh counselor jockner attorney jockner can i can ask you questions [19:05] regarding this matter if if she has to now i understand that isla lipana has a department also called [19:14] broader insurance uh services is that correct sir that's right okay and it offers fraud and [19:20] compliance audit correct that's right in fact this department of isla lipana is currently [19:26] headed by uh mr pocholo dumundon is that correct okay thank you sir now going back to your resume sir [19:38] this does not mention that you were part of the broad insurance services is that correct it doesn't [19:43] mention that okay okay thank you sir also did that uh while uh although it did mention your [19:50] chairmanship in isla lipana now let's go to your work in the tax department sir sir the tax department is [20:01] a separate division of uh isla lipana correct separate los but not side yes sir it's a separate [20:09] department of department of department of department yes it doesn't operate independently [20:15] of the firm yes it's not siloed yes sir but it is still under uh isla lipana although a separate [20:22] department uh meron pong separate na los and tax okay um it is also separate separate [20:29] it separate from the audit and assurance services department sir correct thank you sir it is also [20:36] separate from the broader assurance department correct thank you sir now the tax department under [20:42] which you were already working at the time in 1989 offers the following services uh tax accounting [20:49] and regulatory compliance do you confirm that um such as assistance in the preparation and filing of tax [20:56] returns uh tax audit or due diligence sir but the audit uh is the determination refers to the [21:07] determination or tax compliance of a client with the bar correct yes but uh mostly that is the [21:18] coverage of your tax audit okay sir yes i i get that sir now uh international tax and transfer pricing [21:32] and also rendering of tax opinion sir yes okay the tax the tax department under [21:38] which you are working at that time does not offer auditing and assurance services correct the tax [21:45] department does not audit does not offer auditing and assurance services [21:50] and people mayro pong separate department po yan so the answer is uh yes it does not offer auditing and [21:56] assurance services thank you sir the tax department does not conduct an external audit of the financial [22:03] statements of the financial statements of the clients of pwc or islalipana or joaquin conanan thank you sir [22:10] its services do not include rendering and independent opinion on the financial statements of your clients [22:18] correct thank you sir while the tax department offers tax fraud audits the focus of the audit is compliance with [22:25] tax laws compliance with tax laws and kung ano po yung misrepresentation po sa financial statement [22:34] yes and all of this relate to tax laws also thank you sir now because fraud audit in general is being [22:41] handled by the assurance department correct sir thank you fraud audit in general yes sir um [22:47] um pagka po fraud audit po kasi yung pinag-uusapan na-involve na po yung lahat po nung ano [22:53] okay yes po ng firm okay sir okay ang tax po ang broader broader assurance at kung sino [22:59] man po yung expert na kailangan po okay nagtutulong tulong po kami yan po ang ibig sabihin [23:04] na hindi po siya siloed okay sir thank you for that uh clarification now now now while working in [23:09] Joaquin Cunanan's tax department you took up law correct that's right and lawyering is also [23:15] consistent with your career track under the tax services department of Joaquin Cunanan that is [23:20] right and after passing the bar in 1996 you maintained your employment with Joaquin Cunanan correct 1994 [23:29] sorry uh i stand corrected 1994 sir okay after passing the bar in that year you maintained your [23:36] employment with Joaquin Cunanan correct correct as a tax lawyer in the tax services department [23:44] of course so you were uh employed as an attorney in the tax services department of Joaquin Cunanan and [23:53] company as a cpa and lawyer of course sir um you were not employed as an auditor of the audit and [24:01] assurance department of Joaquin Cunanan and company hindi po ako auditor sa los na yun po okay sir as a [24:07] tax lawyer in the tax department your work was focused on taxation corporate law mergers and [24:13] acquisitions correct oppa okay and as a tax lawyer you can now represent clients before the sec correct [24:22] yes nagre-represent po kami sa sec po yes sir thank you sir uh more importantly as a tax lawyer you can [24:29] now represent clients before the bir correct correct but kahit po nung cpa pa lang po pwede na po mag represent [24:35] sa bir okay thank you sir and uh am i correct to say that as a tax lawyer you work most your work [24:43] mostly involved representing clients before the sec and the bir and other government agencies [24:50] as a tax lawyer hindi po eh hindi po talaga pong ano talaga pong malaki po yung mna component [24:58] malaki po yung due diligence review and uh malaki po yung uh consulting that just answer yes or no [25:04] can you please answer with yes or no and your uh lawyer will also ask [25:34] a question regarding that matter if he uh deems appropriate later on redirect the comment of [25:41] um honorable jock noise julie noted um the witness is instructed to kindly be responsive as the case [25:48] may be although if there is a need for you to explain your answer if it cannot be answerable by a simple [25:53] yes or no you may ask permission of the council if um if um there is a need to ask further questions or [26:00] if you can explain your answer if not then um opposing counsel the honorable jock no can take [26:05] that up on redirect you may proceed attorney christine okay thank you your honor now as a tax lawyer [26:12] uh you no longer audit the financial statements of pwc's clients as a tax lawyer po yes po okay thank [26:22] you sir um am i correct to say sir um am i correct to say sir that under pwc's global policy and standards [26:32] the firm's tax department is strictly prohibited from providing external audit services [26:37] to any of the firm's clients okay so the answer to that is yes yes thank you sir now let's go [26:51] back to your work as a tax lawyer let's um expound a bit now your work as a tax lawyer already involves [27:03] handling requests before the bir correct correct okay uh law division uh international tax affairs [27:14] division okay and uh you also represented clients uh for tax assessments or audits before the bir okay [27:25] sir um if i can recall your testimony last friday you said that you really considered yourself as a tax [27:34] expert and if i may recall if i can quote you you mentioned something along the lines like [27:41] and taxation yen and expertise and i and this representation uh really understands where you're [27:48] coming from sir um in fact that statement really showed your passion also when it comes to taxation [27:57] if my assessment is correct taxation because of tax planning tax structuring mna pop thank you sir [28:04] now even if you focus your entire career in taxation and only devoted about a year in external audit [28:12] as a staff accountant you still consider yourself sir as a forensic accounting expert that's right [28:18] objection your honor i think the already answered your honor already answered is not an excuse for [28:27] the objection to be made that's very clear section 39 what is the objection council your may i ask that [28:35] the question be repeated uh your honor that witness already answered i believe your honor section 39 [28:42] should the witness answer the question before the adverse party had the opportunity to voice fully [28:47] its objection or where the question is not objectionable but the answer is not responsive [28:53] or where a witness testifies without the question being posed or testifies beyond limits set [28:58] by the court and such objection is found to be meritorious the court shall sustain the objection [29:05] in order such answer testimony or narration to be stricken off the record that is why i'm asking for [29:10] the ground for the objection that's why i'm your honor i'm asking that the question be repeated because [29:15] if i recall the question good counsel here was state that misled the testimony or misdeclared the [29:22] testimony of the witness last right last week quick reply your honors so your ground is that it's misleading [29:30] yes but i would like your honor please that the question be repeated so that i can make it clear [29:35] which part is objectionable a quick reply your honor yes attorney we believe that the witness is an [29:42] intelligent witness your honor and he fully understood and in fact responded to the answer your [29:47] honor to the question your honor thank you your honor may be heard [29:51] that's very clear from section 39 of rule 130 if if the witness answers quickly but the this the [30:05] question is objectionable counsel is still entitled to object the court must rule on the objection and have [30:11] the answer or the questions taken off the record now to make my objection clear i don't know why it's so [30:17] difficult for counsel to repeat her question yes but yes attorney christine before your honor may we [30:24] know the ground of the objection your honor because if it was misleading the witness could not have [30:29] answered it intelligently your honor but as you see uh your honor the witness has in fact given his [30:36] answer your honor the court allow the court to make a ruling um if um the panel of prosecutor needs the [30:45] question to be repeated to make the appropriate objection and the witness is already answered [30:51] then um the court would have to um overrule that objection and also if it is based on the fact that [30:58] it was misleading it is not misleading if i remember the question um she was simply comparing um [31:05] the claim of the witness in regard to her who to his supposed one year experience only in the division [31:12] when he was starting out that focused on this particular um fact and or assertion yes i now recall [31:23] what was stated by the good counsel and she said that um if you're only especially if if you only did [31:32] tax lawyering sorry she was stating that your other she was insinuating your honor that this witness has [31:42] not had any experience at all in auditing that was the import of her question and that's why it's [31:48] misleading your honor please uh that statement of uh attorney jockno is the one which is misleading yes [31:55] i don't recall it um that way um honorable i think um attorney christine asked that he had experience but [32:01] that only that but that only it was for um a short period of time a year in fact if i recall um correctly [32:07] let's move on um um for the meantime with your indulgence honorable jockno the objection is um [32:11] overruled attorney christine you may continue um thank you sir um uh with your kind indulgence sir [32:19] i will be asking more personal questions sir um as a lawyer sir uh have you handled a complaint for [32:27] graft and corruption before the office of the husband okay thank you sir have you handled either as a [32:33] private prosecutor or defense lawyer a case involving graft and corruption before any court as a lawyer [32:39] point okay thank you sir uh how about a case involving malversation or misuse of public funds [32:45] in the papa thank you sir how about the case involving violation of r.a. 6713 [32:52] hindi pa po pero lahat po ng elements ito alam po kahit po ng estudyante okay thank you sir [32:56] um okay um how about being an expert witness sir in a graft and corruption case before any [33:18] court court hindi pa cta lang po ako nakapag commissioner punong okay um have how about being [33:25] an expert witness in a case involving unexplained wealth or ill-gotten wealth before this this is [33:31] the first time po and i hope it's the last okay sir we got that answer now so you have not been an [33:37] expert too in a civil forfeiture case in any court not yet okay thank you sir um have you been an amicus [33:44] corey in an unexplained or in ill-gotten wealth case before the cindigan bayan [33:54] why not sir how about a civil forfeiture case have you been an amicus corey okay um despite not having [34:02] appeared in any court as counsel or an as an amicus corey in cases involving graft and corruption [34:10] ill-gotten wealth or civil forfeiture you of course are still appearing as an expert witness [34:17] and opining on the supposed constitutional violations of the vice president that's right [34:23] thank you sir uh we understand also sir that you attended uh leadership and management program [34:30] uh at harvard business school in 2006. uh and that is a non-coli non-curriculum uh [34:36] leadership program sir um that's right uh which lasted for about a week a week po hindi po four [34:44] to six days mga less than naman po pero mga one month po yung preparation okay thank you sir and finally [34:51] sir uh um maybe no sir if you are a member of the institute of certified forensic accountants in the [35:01] philippines okay thank you sir thank you for that answer um pardon me sir um but i will have to ask [35:19] you some more questions sure of course these are not meant sir to downplay your achievements please uh [35:24] uh please um have that in mind sir um because your achievements are what they are already now going [35:33] back to your cv sir uh curriculum vitae curriculum vitae um can a copy be shown to the witness um in your cv [35:54] sir uh nothing was attached to it do you confirm that sir oh oh ito lang po yung uh okay salamat po sir um [36:03] your diplomas were not attached to the cv uh certifications from the prc and the supreme court [36:11] concerning your admission to the cpa profession and the bar will also were also not attached to [36:17] the cv correct sir of course again this doesn't uh mean that they don't exist but i'm i'm just asking [36:24] this as a matter of record sir please understand okay thank you sir um no client testimonials were [36:31] attached to your cv sir no uh certification from pwc also regarding your employment and partnership [36:40] okay uh no peer reviews were attached no reviews by your lawyer by uh fellow tax lawyers by audit [36:48] partners were attached also in your cv sir okay sir i understand no other certifications on memberships [36:58] were also attached to your cv sir okay thank you sir um okay sir now let's proceed with your [37:13] appointment uh going back to your appointment letter i hope you have a copy okay okay going back to your [37:22] appointment letter uh may we know sir when did you accept your appointment as a forensic expert june [37:28] pa june if you can recall ah june first week or second week that's that's your answer earlier [37:36] okay so when did you commence your work sir after signing the appointment letter if you just can [37:42] uh immediately po eh because yeah immediately so by saying immediately second week or third [37:51] yeah around second week po yan okay um second week or third week of june if you can recall sir what [37:57] were the documents that were provided to you by the prosecution documents that were provided to you by the [38:04] impeachment court in june 2026 all right so you're saying that in june 2026 based on your recollection [38:23] you were already provided you were already provided with silence of the respondent from 2022 to 2025 [38:30] uh amla amla documents amlc documents income tax returns uh wala pa po wala pa financial statements [38:39] po ng uh corporations okay uh bank statements gis oh wala pa wala pa okay that's clear okay thank you sir [38:46] uh now when uh now when these documents were handed to you or provided to you in june uh 2026 uh did the [38:57] turnover of the documents to you uh or was the turnover of these documents to you uh covered by any [39:05] transmittal letters sir harami po ng cartoon parang meron pong ano meron po yatang transmittal [39:12] okay but uh there was a transmittal letter that was given to you and which you also received sir [39:19] i don't think i signed po pinadala po yung pinadala po sa office ko po yung ano precisely they were not [39:27] attached to your report that's the reason why okay um now when you receive the uh documents from the [39:39] banks and the amlc and the bar may i know when you received this sir if you can recall [39:45] it did not occur to you or did it ever occur to you that you or the person who provided the documents [40:05] the bank officers the amlc officers or the bir officers maybe violating confidentiality law sir [40:12] wala po kong concern po dun okay concern ko lang po yung document sa prosecution at yun po yung titigna [40:19] okay thank you for concern dun sa outside of that thank you sir um we are showing you this uh [40:25] law sir that i mentioned earlier um kindly give your answers after my question sir um for the amlc report [40:36] sir we are citing section 8a of ra 960 section 8a we are showing it uh on the screen sir um i hope you [40:50] can see that medjupa okay um section 8a provides if i can read uh the first paragraph the amlc and its [41:00] secretariat shall securely securely protect information received or processed and shall not reveal in any [41:07] manner any information known to them by reason of this office this prohibition shall apply even after [41:13] their separation from the amlc and then the second provision that we will flash is or we will show [41:21] is section 6 of ra 9194 which amend section 9c of ra 9160 can that be shown on the screen and the in [41:38] charge of the tech booth show that on screen kindly blow it up a bit yeah kindly blow it up [41:45] a bit uh david i hope you can see that sir okay i will just read it sir for your reference okay uh [42:01] when reporting covered or suspicious transactions to the amlc covered institutions under officers and [42:08] employees are prohibited from communicating directly or indirectly in any manner or by any means to any [42:16] person or entity the media the the media the fact that a covered or suspicious transaction report was [42:23] made the contents thereof or any other information in relation there too uh i'll stop in that portion [42:32] and last these are the last provision regarding the amc amlc records that we will show on screen [42:39] is section 9d of ra 9194 which amends section 14 of ra 9160 can that provision be shown on screen [42:50] then i will read it also sir for your reference section 9 section 14 paragraph c and d of the same act [42:57] are hereby amended to read as follows letter d breach of confidentiality i will no longer uh [43:04] uh uh specify the the penalties but it includes uh impersonment and fine but this is not meant to scare [43:13] you sir um i'm not scared yes sir um i will now ask my question sir uh as a lawyer you did not feel [43:21] concerned that the furnishing of amlc documents to you and information also to you uh without the permission [43:29] of the impeachment court may violate uh this loss which we cited earlier now for the bank documents we [43:48] will also show section 2 of ra 1405 or the bank secrecy law kindly show it uh on the screen i will also [43:58] read it sir for your reference section 2 of course i know you are familiar with this section 2 all [44:05] deposits of whatever nature with banks or banking institutions in the philippines including investments [44:12] in bonds issued by the government of the philippines its political subdivisions and its instrumentalities [44:19] are hereby considered as an absolutely confidential as of an absolute absolutely confidential nature [44:27] and may not be examined inquired or looked into by any person government official bureau or office [44:35] except upon written permission of the depositor or in cases of impeachment or upon order of a competent [44:41] court in cases of bribery or the reliction of duty of public officials or in cases where the money [44:47] deposited or investment is invested is the subject matter of the litigation now my question sir is [44:53] having not known this law as a lawyer you did not uh feel concerned also by the furnishing of copies of [45:02] bank documents to you without the authority of the impeachment court objection your honor [45:15] are you withdrawing your objection that you haven't stated yet may may i just make a manifestation [45:22] of the witness that the witness earlier when asked if he when he was provided with the documents [45:29] in early june said that he was not yet provided with the bank records at that time just to be [45:34] clear your honor your honor quick reply yes the questions were asked uh in relation to his receipt [45:42] already of the documents not when the documents were not yet provided to him no this one this one [45:48] one i think honorable jockton was referring to the earlier questions na sinagot ng testigo not this [45:53] one and the witness expressed willingness to answer so yes i withdraw my objection on it [45:58] julie noted witness may answer [46:00] oh po kaya po ko hindi concerned kasi sa 3019 po na siya pong uh section 8 po na nagsasabing yung [46:08] yung acquisition po ng property na manifestly disproportionate po sa income po uh sir i'm sorry i have [46:14] to have to stop the baby po niya na bank deposit should be taken into consideration your honor please uh [46:19] uh terny alex attorney alex um i think that would be enough um again um any further explanation not [46:26] called for in the question by attorney christine may be dealt with by the honorable jock not during his [46:32] um the redirect examination yes sir um my only question my question was uh simple you did not feel [46:39] concerned hindi kayo nabahala when the bank documents were furnished to you by the prosecution [46:45] without the authority or approval of the impeachment court they'll put 3019 po um [46:52] ah sir i'm sorry i'm sorry i'll have the pong mat matting okay so the answer okay the answer [46:57] okay the answer to that okay the answer to that okay so the answer to that is no po no okay so [47:08] for the bir documents which you received also uh we will be citing section 270 of the tax code we are [47:15] showing that um on the screen uh this refers to unlawful divulgence of information i know that you [47:23] are quite familiar with that provision sir um it says that except as provided in section 6f and 71 of [47:32] this code and section 26 of republic act number 6388 any officer or employee of the bureau of internal [47:40] revenue who divulges to any person or makes known in any other manner than may be provided by law [47:48] information regarding the business income or estate of any taxpayer the secrets operation style or work [47:54] or apparatus of any manufacturer or producer or confident or confidential information regarding the [48:00] business of any taxpayer then i have to stop on uh in that uh uh uh sentence now sir based on this uh [48:09] section 270 of the tax code although we know both that this refers to officers and tax agents of the bir [48:17] uh you are not concerned of any possible uh violation under section 270 when you when you were furnished [48:24] copies of the bir documents without the bir documents without the authority of the impeachment [48:28] concern po don't [48:29] okay [48:38] um [48:42] um [48:44] uh [49:20] thank you sir um [49:21] um [49:22] according to page 24 of your report your examination focus on three corporations correct [49:28] upper doon po kami nag-concentrate sa tatlong corporation okay okay salamat po sir uh and these [49:35] corporations are metro city chow foods corporation tama po tama po gen corp industries inc [49:43] tama po and cala 88 foods corporation tama po salamat po uh you also mentioned on the same page in the same [49:52] page page page page uh page 24 that the reason for this is because of lack of material time do you confirm [49:59] that okay thank you sir now we noticed that the report uh does not contain a checklist of documents uh this [50:07] report itself that you examined can uh that you uh made sir can you confirm sir that this report does not [50:15] checklist of documents every document that we examine [50:18] okay thank you sir thank you sir uh this report has no table of contents although it's only uh 50 50 [50:50] pages but it does not have a table of contents okay thank you sir uh your report [50:56] report has no list of authorities uh when i say list of authorities it means the [51:00] laws that you cited and the jurisprudence that you cited and the pages that they were cited [51:07] it's a short summary of all of these authorities yes sir i understand but there is no [51:14] list of authorities on the in the front page or somewhere else okay thank you sir now you can say [51:19] this uh because of uh lack of uh lack of material time too okay so let's go to the main report sir [51:27] appointed forensic auditor of the panel of prosecutors it is your opinion sir that the spouse escarpio had [51:48] an undeclared wealth of 817.8 million as of 2025 correct okay and this 817.8 million was the product of your [52:01] examination of the documents provided to you by the prosecution correct okay thank you sir now this [52:07] 817.8 million is composed of uh two items first is undeclared assets sir confirm that and second is [52:21] undeclared income alleged okay second is um alleged undeclared income of the spouse's carpio correct [52:36] so your report does not contain any undeclared liabilities okay thank you sir now according to page one of [52:47] your report if you can uh refer to it you did not examine or use any document coming from the respondent [52:57] and her spouse correct okay so that is a yes you did not [53:20] use any document coming from the respondent and her spouse had there been i would have used [53:26] but anyway that is okay let's answer the question sir let's answer the question so that is a yes based [53:33] on your report of course and the answer is yes will the witness kindly speak to the mic instead of simply [53:42] nodding so yes yes yes okay you also did not uh interview the respondent kindly just uh say yes or no [53:51] yes okay you also did not interview mr manassez carpio yes or no only yes based on documents [53:57] lampo kami okay thank you no interview was made with the accountant of the respondent vice president [54:05] yes po na-examine lang po namin yung fs nila okay salamat po you also did not interview the accountant of [54:11] mr manassez carpio yes po pare-pareho naman po yung accountant nila okay now no interview was also [54:18] conducted with the auditor of the spouse's scorpio correct correct correct po pare-pareho po [54:23] lahat ng auditor nila anyway uh you already answered the question sir thank you now let's go to the [54:30] undeclared cash sir in in your alleged sorry i have to uh rephrase my question the alleged undeclared cash [54:40] now just a quick inquiry sir when did you receive the bank documents from the prosecution [54:46] you mentioned a date earlier but uh can it be more specific sir if you can you can look at your [54:53] notes it's okay okay okay september sir uh is it correct that the bdo uh the bdo documents containing [55:10] four boxes metro bank documents containing uh uh which are contained in three boxes bpi documents which [55:22] are contained in two boxes land bank uh documents which is which are contained in one small box or one [55:29] box and security bank documents which are in five boxes and one envelope and ps bank documents uh which [55:40] are in one envelope all of this were received by you after september 8 2026 if you can recall [55:49] sir a po may time drive din pong okay asama po kaya may digital copy po kami salamat po uh when exactly [55:56] after september 8 2026 hindi ko po ma hindi ko ma recall po yung exact exact date po but it is it a week [56:04] a week after that a week after september 8 2026 when you receive this documents that i enumerated sir [56:16] if you can just recall sir parang parang around that week boy parang second week po second week of [56:23] september okay sir now is it also correct to say that you received the asia united uh asia united bank [56:35] corporation corporation documents east west bank corporation documents philippine national bank [56:42] documents and union bank of the philippines documents later after september 22 2026 [56:51] hindi ko po ma recall yung exact date but uh but these documents were received later by you okay after [56:59] september 22 2026 of course meron pong mga bangkong dumating po uh bank documents [57:06] pong dumating na mga later po than the earlier batch okay okay salamat sir um again uh these documents [57:16] that were transmitted to you by the prosecution uh does not or does have uh transmittal letters with them [57:24] uh opa wala pong transmittal letters pa meron ho bang transmittal letters or wala [57:32] hong transmittal letters parang wala pong hindi ko po ma recall na may exactong transmittal letters [57:37] okay so minomonitor lang po namin yung mga dumating po thank you sir so you did not also uh provided [57:45] the prosecution of copies or a list of the documents that were received by you did you provide that list [57:51] sir okay thank you sir okay thank you sir okay sir i have no question yet i think you have already [58:00] answered my question sir thank you sir so your report that's the reason why your report did not [58:09] append any transmittal letter from the prosecution correct sabay naman daw po kasi okay salamat sir [58:15] now according to your report the undeclared cash you can also refer to your report sir [58:23] is the difference between the ending cash balance per bank and the cash declared in the salen you can [58:32] refer to your notes sir anong page point in itignan niya uh wait uh i'll i'll that's on page three [58:56] sir ito po yung uh ito pong page three ito po yung mga listahan po ng mga bank accounts po nila yes [59:08] sir ah kindly wait for my question sir okay so in your cash audit you you determined [59:26] the undeclared cash as the difference between the cash balance per bank and the cash declared in the [59:33] salen correct okay and you assume that the cash per salen is zero under that item the cash item thank [59:42] you sir because the account cash was not specified in the salen correct tamapa okay you did not also [59:51] consider in that uh in that specific report only on cash that the cash was slumped somewhere in the [1:00:00] salen correct okay thank you sir um now your report uh categorize the supposed bank accounts of the [1:00:13] vice president and her husband into four are you're not gonna just ask permission to drink water okay sir [1:00:37] uh you can also drink water sir thank you pa your report categorize the supposed bank accounts into [1:00:44] four table one table one are the supposed accounts of the vice president correct tamapa table two are the [1:00:59] supposed accounts of manasa scarpio correct tamapa table three are the supposed joint accounts held by [1:01:08] the respondent the respondent and mr manasa scarpio correct that's right and table four uh are the [1:01:15] supposed accounts of 888 bistro which is a sole proprietorship of mr carpio correct okay going back to all of [1:01:25] this table sir the names of the account holders do not appear as a separate column in each of the tables [1:01:33] correct correct you can uh go through each of the tables sir yes thank you uh furthermore there was no [1:01:43] separate column in table one showing let's go to table one sir showing whether the listed accounts of the [1:01:51] bvp are held singly or with another person correct but it did not refer to any account name sir as reflected in [1:02:05] the bank statement okay uh can detect uh the person in the tech booth please uh remove the [1:02:22] document as earlier agreed kindly um who's in the tech booth again attorney is it dave david [1:02:32] well david similar to your request with the prosecution kindly redact the account numbers [1:02:37] kindly redact all the account numbers before flashing them that's also for the respondent now i'll go back [1:02:49] to my question sir table one does not show the names of the account holders as reflected in the bank [1:02:56] statements only the account number doesn't show the name yes sir um kindly uh i have to stop you on that okay [1:03:06] okay so so so that table does not contain the names of the account holders now one of the or among the [1:03:20] documents that are to be examined in a forensic accounting are the kyc documents correct and your report [1:03:33] does not contain uh sir can you please answer the question one of the documents that should be examined [1:03:41] in a forensic audit are the kyc documents okay thank you sir and uh your report as it is now does not [1:03:53] contain any information on the kyc documents that you examine only correct when there is one provided by [1:04:00] the bank po yung mga na-examine naming kyc so you're saying that there's no kyc that were provided to you [1:04:06] sir meron pong meron pong meron po kaming kyc na natanggap po meron merong kyc na natanggap but not for [1:04:15] all the banks for the banks okay so you completed your examination uh without examining all of the kycs of [1:04:22] this map available available documents okay thank you sir thank you for that answer now so that is the [1:04:30] reason why the kyc information are not reflected in your report correct that's right thank you sir [1:04:41] now sir you mentioned that you reviewed the year-end balances of each of the bank accounts that's right [1:04:49] but you did not conduct your own confirmation as to the nature of of these accounts with the banks [1:04:55] correct of course i know i know the answer to that because you were not authorized by the account holders [1:05:00] you answered your question thank you sir and of course you are not also given authority to send [1:05:11] confirmation letters to the banks correct that's why no confirmation letters were also sent to these [1:05:17] banks which you examined okay okay sir uh yeah that yes sir that is uh that is already uh known to [1:05:28] everyone now with that sir you were not given any authority to inquire into any outstanding loans of [1:05:37] the vp and her husband that's right you were not given copies of loan documents from the bank if any [1:05:45] correct and you were also not given uh copies of other bank documents aside from those that were [1:05:56] provided to you by the prosecution okay thank you sir sir uh did you examine each and every transaction uh [1:06:20] in the bank documents that were furnished to you as much as we can put a very limited po yung uh [1:06:26] yun time pero as much as we can uh we did what we could with the bank okay thank you sir um because [1:06:40] we did not see any statement here in your report that you examined all of the bank transactions of the [1:06:46] vice president and her spouse one by one yes yes transaction uh uh [1:06:52] uh meron hinanap meron po kami mga hinanap sa mga eliminations so pero bawat isang transaction po [1:06:58] na examine each and every transaction you were not able to examine all of those sir [1:07:03] uh ang in-examine po namin ay ano po yung uh inflows tapos ano po yung mga dapat tanggalin po doon [1:07:10] sa okay sir so in short sir as you have said earlier hanggang kaya lang so you were not able to [1:07:17] examine all of the bank documents each and every transaction uh stated in the bank documents uh [1:07:25] that were provided to you by the prosecution kung ano po yung naibigay lamang po sa amin yun [1:07:29] lang po ang pwede naming pagbasihan okay thank you sir um did you also check sir whether the signature of [1:07:39] the vice president appeared in the documents that you examined yes but uh did you check whether [1:07:49] her signatures appear in the uh acquisition of manager's checks [1:08:01] yes sir i will rephrase that question yes the application form i'm referring to that sir [1:08:06] the application form concerning the application of manager's checks wala po siyang signature [1:08:11] don't pero yung pangalan niya lang po yung nakalagay so in short based on the documents that you [1:08:15] examined the vice president has no signature in all of the applications for manager's checks in the [1:08:23] documents that ito po ba yung sa kanilang joint bank accounts po later we will go to that sir okay uh [1:08:29] you also uh examined uh examined the the signature of the vice president in the renewal of her signature [1:08:38] cards if such document was furnished to you sir upper but there was no mention here in your kyc [1:08:48] pa yung kyc update update yes sir ah yung kyc update yeah yes you you were able to examine those sir but [1:08:56] there was no mention here of the examination done by user of those updated kyc documents am i correct [1:09:09] now now in examining the bank accounts or of the vice president you considered the bank accounts that [1:09:23] were singly um owned by mr manasa scarpio correct that's right and uh this is found under tables [1:09:34] two and four of your of your report sir okay but have any personal knowledge whether the vice [1:09:45] president actually knew the existence of this account personal knowledge po wala po wala okay [1:09:51] salamat sir the record straight sir this examination of the bank balances that you made this was made [1:10:03] without hearing the side of the account owners specifically the spouses carpeo as mentioned [1:10:10] po documents lampontina namin salamat po it did not consider also the inputs comments and clarifications [1:10:18] of this spouses as you had mentioned sir it did not also consider the side of the former president [1:10:27] rodrigo roa duterte with respect to the account or accounts that he singly owned and or jointly held [1:10:33] with the vice president correct tamapa you also did not consider the past books and other documents in [1:10:40] possession of the respondent and her spouse but those back i will refer i will uh repeat my question [1:10:50] sir you did not also consider uh the bank documents in possession of the respondent [1:10:56] no number documents po na nasami lang kung meron pa po silang ibang bank document hindi ko po alam [1:11:01] yan salamat now you said also sir in the terms in in your report that you received copies of the amlc [1:11:12] reports correct correct nowhere in the computation of the cash balances were the amlc reports [1:11:23] mentioned correct okay um it is because if you agree with me the computation of cash balance [1:11:33] is based on actual cash flows correct and not merely on supposed total inflows and outflows correct [1:11:43] amlc yes sir but the amlc report was not considered in your report in so far as determining the net [1:11:55] assets of the respondent is concerned thank you sir so you agree with me also that the amount of i hope [1:12:05] you bear with me sir the amount of inflows of one point one billion six hundred thirty thousand [1:12:11] three hundred fifty one uh one sorry the amount of one billion six hundred thirty million three hundred [1:12:20] fifty one thousand six hundred seven point sixty eight supposed inflows do not appear in your report [1:12:29] sam po nanggaling yung amlc po ah iba po yung total nila eh okay thank you every time po na tag nila yung [1:12:35] po si yung total nila say thank you sir because as you said earlier their totals are not considered in [1:12:41] computing the net assets of the respondent correct thank you and it's the same with the supposed outflows [1:12:49] from the amlc which is one billion three hundred eight million one hundred twenty three thousand five [1:12:57] hundred twenty six point sixty eight pesos the same does not appear in your forensic report thank you [1:13:05] sir let's go to the investments uh portion and the insurance as a lawyer sir um i am sure you're aware of [1:13:31] section three ra 10607 or the insurance code we will show uh the provision on screen like please [1:13:44] can can it be zoomed sir i hope you can see that but nevertheless i will read the provisions here [1:13:57] section three of ra 10607 otherwise known as the insurance code it says that any contingent or [1:14:06] unknown event whether past or future which may damnify a person having an insurable interest or create [1:14:14] a liability against him may be insured against subject to the provisions of this chapter and then the [1:14:21] second sentence says the consent of the spouse is not necessary for the validity of an insurance policy [1:14:27] taken out by a married person on his or her life or that of his children i hope that is uh [1:14:36] clear now sir based on this section the consent of the spouse is an is unnecessary when the other [1:14:46] spouse takes out an insurance policy correct and you have no personal knowledge sir whether the vice [1:14:55] president actually knew about the policies or insurance policies that were taken out by manasa [1:15:02] scarpe you know knowledge lampoon i mean is absolute community of property yes sir but on the actual [1:15:08] knowledge of the vice president as to this insurance you have no knowledge you have no personal [1:15:12] information or personal knowledge about this about another about whether the vp has actual knowledge of [1:15:18] this insurance policies of mr carpio whether the bullet bullet okay thank you sir now let's go to the [1:15:26] business interest sir page tensor of the report did you find it sir thank you a business interest under [1:16:07] letter c sir you mentioned here uh in the first paragraph second sentence i hope you can follow [1:16:17] sir that to accurately report the value of a business a formal valuation exercise should be conducted [1:16:25] however however you you continued for lack of information and material time to conduct such valuation exercise [1:16:34] we were conservatively used as evaluation her interest in business and of her spouse now i [1:16:41] i'll stop on that because we will have we will tackle all of this now based on based on uh this statement sir [1:16:51] due to lack of material time you did not conduct a valuation exercise formal valuation exercise [1:17:00] okay sir thank you sir and am i correct to say sir that from the moment that you were [1:17:08] furnished copies of the bank documents on september 8th after rather september 8th around the second week [1:17:17] of september 8th and then uh up to the time that you finished your report in october 2 is that correct [1:17:25] did you finish your report in october 2 so from the second week of september to october 2 you barely had [1:17:33] two weeks okay around three weeks okay we'll take that answer sir so yes sir uh so we will so your [1:17:53] forensic report was done in a matter of around three weeks correct that's the complete examination of [1:18:00] of the documents that came from the sec right sec um but you said earlier that accounts [1:18:23] okay sir we take that but in so far as the bank accounts are concerned you only had [1:18:29] three weeks to examine all of those bank accounts okay thank you sir now in computing the supposed in [1:18:39] computing the supposed business interest of the vp you focus on these two corporations i'm talking [1:18:46] about the business interest sir the gen corp industries inc you can uh look at your notes and then [1:18:54] cali cali cali 888 foods corporation correct metro city chow din po uh i'm i'm i'm i'm still on page [1:19:03] tensor interest in businesses uh upper calipo alleged interest in businesses now i'm just reading your [1:19:14] report sir so yeah so alleged interest in businesses so in computing wala pong nakalagay na [1:19:21] knowledge so report ko po uh that's our position so we're we're we're that is our position sir i'm [1:19:32] sorry so you consider these two corporations the gen corp industries inc and cali 8 foods corporation [1:19:41] now in computing the business interest of uh the vp you considered or the capital investments in uh [1:19:56] gen corp uh gen corp you formulated uh table 15 sir let's go to table 15. before that sir uh preliminary [1:20:24] questions the gen corp uh gen corp was mentioned in the vice presidents 2024 and 2025 salen [1:20:34] that was your position but that was my observation yes sir um but you also observed that according to [1:20:44] you there was no valuation that can be found in the salen correct well now we are showing you copies of [1:20:51] the 2024 2025 salen we will not uh show copies of these documents on we will only show these documents to [1:20:58] the witness okay now we are showing you copies of the 2024 and 2025 salen sir let's go to page four [1:21:12] let's go to page four on business interest and financial connections on page four sir would you [1:21:23] agree with me that that section in the salen does not include a column of acquisition cost of shares of [1:21:29] stock of stock um sir i'm only asking for both the years 2024 and 2025 okay but nonetheless you [1:21:42] allege in your report that the value of the respondent vice president's business interest [1:21:47] were not reported in the salen because of lack of valuation in that uh column sir in in uh that portion [1:21:55] the first item is the supposed amount of investment per gis [1:22:26] the second is a derived capital contribution when you say derived capital contributions or correct me [1:22:35] if i'm wrong or i at least i have heard this also from your council that derived capital is what we [1:22:42] call also as an attributed capital correct okay attributed capital in fact your team came up with an [1:22:50] attributed capital of the vp in gen corp at 20 percent and this 20 percent attribution was based on the [1:22:58] assumption that the vp and her spouse exercise significant influence over gen corp correct cbp [1:23:06] cvp lang po cvp yes vp exercised significant influence over gen corp and the second reason for this [1:23:16] attribution is that i the the vice president owns or has equity of 20 percent in metro chow city foods [1:23:26] corporation hindi lang po yun pero tama po kayo na part po yun okay sir thank you sir but that attribution or [1:23:34] assumption was not based on any contract or document that you have examined thank you sir it was not based [1:23:43] on any deed of assignment or deed of subscription or any subscription agreement which was made available [1:23:50] to you for your examination correct tama po because nothing was made available to you for your examination [1:23:56] okay sir thank you now despite of any written contract deed of assignment or subscription agreement [1:24:08] you still find that the vp has 20 percent ownership in gen corp correct tama po thank you now let's go to [1:24:16] table 15 let's refer to the paid up capital in the second column sir for the years 2022 to 2024 that column [1:24:30] mentions that the vp has paid up capital of 300 000 in gen corp correct but okay sir okay um okay [1:24:46] is that correct sir okay before i'll i'll ask my next question can the witness um be provided with [1:24:54] copies of the gis of gen corp for 2022 to 2025 we are showing you copies of documents of or gis of gen corp [1:25:01] for this particular for this particular year sir now there is a 300 000 uh paid up capital under that [1:25:09] column sir but uh for the year uh okay i will finish until 2025 also for the year 2025 there is a paid up [1:25:21] capital of 262 000 500 pesos sir correct yes in the table that you uh provided yes sir in your report [1:25:38] okay now that 300 000 pesos paid up capital cannot be found or did okay the 2024 [1:25:50] okay so you confirm you confirm sir that all of this paid up capital under under the second column [1:26:01] of table 15 of your report cannot be found in the gis of gen corp thank you sir now let's go to the paid up [1:26:10] capital of manasa scarpio in gen corp also that is in the third column of table 15 can can you find it [1:26:21] so it's not paid up capital it's paid up capital by spouse by spouse by spouse okay okay [1:26:28] so ano po ito sa kali 88 po yata okay thank you so this is for kali [1:26:36] okay sir now let's go to another point sir let's go to the calculated capital contribution to gen corp in the [1:26:49] fourth column calculated capital contribution to gen corp you indicated the amount of 35 million per year [1:26:57] sir tomaba okay is it correct to say sir that it is an assigned capital assigned capital assigned capital [1:27:05] assigned capital yes what do you mean sorry or no i am just asking if it's correct but it's more [1:27:12] appropriate to say that it's an attributed capital attributed capital for sensitivity analysis okay [1:27:18] okay sir thank you sir now that 35 million attributed capital was calculated on the following assumptions [1:27:27] now i hope you can follow me sir first assumption in your report is that gen corp has five jolly b [1:27:36] branches okay sir okay based on the receipts that you attach to your report gen corp has five jolly b [1:27:46] branches and these branches are inserted center point correct [1:27:51] okay center point i will just enumerate them center point of brisa the second branch bolton the third [1:28:02] branch gaysano mall the fourth branch and time square plaza correct tamapa but these receipts that were [1:28:11] attached to your report were only provided to you by the prosecution correct tamapa okay thank you now the [1:28:18] second uh assumption uh assumption that you made is that okay the that uh gen corp has five branches [1:28:30] based on the official receipts okay that you gathered which show its corporate name okay sir to be clear [1:28:39] you did not directly inquire from gen corp whether it is the owner of these five jolly b branches okay [1:28:46] okay then having found those five receipts you browse the internet that's the desktop research that [1:28:54] you were referring to sir you browse the internet you went to the jolly b website correct and found out [1:29:02] the initial franchise cost which is 35 million pesos correct hindi lang po yung ginawa namin pero ito lang [1:29:10] po yung with respect to this available po yes sir yes sir yes sir pero nagtanong din po kami sa mga [1:29:15] owners lamang wala pong uh okay sir so ito lang po yung ginawa namin yung very low figure na 35 [1:29:22] thank you sir for that clarification again your report did not say that you made a written inquiry [1:29:27] with jolly b foods corporation made an inquiry po uh written inquiry po wala pong written [1:29:33] inquiry okay sir uh you just relied on what was shown to you in the web page of john [1:29:38] mapo okay thank you sir now given the 35 million franchise cost which you research from the web [1:29:45] you now came up with a calculated capital contribution to gen corp of 35 million each [1:29:52] in all of the four years that were covered 20 percent po ng five [1:29:58] thank you sir when you add the paid up capital based on the supposed or the attributed 20 [1:30:14] percent ownership in gen corp and also the paid up capital by spouse in calle 88 and also the [1:30:23] calculated capital contribution to gen corp based on the franchise amount or cost of jolly b [1:30:30] you came up with the paid up capital under c1 correct sir okay thank you sir and in so far as [1:30:39] this paid up capital is concerned the totals reflected therein are in 2022 it's 35 million 359 [1:30:49] thousand 375 pesos correct correct 2023 37 million 109 thousand 375 pesos correct [1:31:03] 20 24 37 million 859 thousand 375 thousand correct and then in 2025 it's 39 million 321 thousand 875 [1:31:18] pesos correct now you mentioned in your report and confirmed now that you did not use any document [1:31:25] in possession of the vp and her spouse that is right okay am i correct in saying sir that [1:31:31] you are not able to get documents from the vp herself and her spouse that is correct answered earlier [1:31:38] you were not able to get documents in their possession pertaining to gen corp [1:31:42] you do not have copies of subscription contracts or subscription agreements concerning gen corp's shares [1:31:51] with you correct you are not able to examine any deeds of assignment of shares of stock involving the [1:31:58] shares the supposed shares of the vice president in gen corp correct you are not able to examine gen [1:32:05] corp stock and transfer book correct you do not have with you or your team any stock certificate or stock [1:32:12] certificates issued by gen corp to the respondent uh vice president sarah duterte correct you are not [1:32:21] able to examine gen corp's franchise agreements too correct you did not make any inquiry with jolly [1:32:28] beef foods corporation as to the actual franchise cost of these five jolly beef franchises in davo [1:32:33] tamapa and these franchises refer to the franchises of gen corp tamapa okay you are not able to obtain copies [1:32:41] of the independent auditor uh you were not able to interview first you were not able to interview [1:32:48] the independent auditor of gen corp correct the one that issued the qualified opinion pa the independent [1:32:54] auditor yeah you were not able to obtain copies of her audit working papers audit working of the internet [1:33:03] of that that belongs to the auditor okay tamapa in short this supposed investment in gen corp was calculated [1:33:10] based on the documents that were provided to you by the prosecution okay and based on all of those [1:33:18] you attributed the capital of 20 percent to the vice president sarah duterte uh okay thank you sir [1:33:27] now uh let's go to kala 88 and the supposed advances of manasa scarpio sir um on page 11 sir of your [1:33:59] report i'm there thank you sir now in computing the supposed advances of manasa scarpio in kala 88 [1:34:08] you multiplied his supposed percentage of ownership which is 47.5 percent that's right consistent with [1:34:15] the with the total amount of advances in kali 8. sorry kali 88 um however however you have neither seen [1:34:27] nor examined nor examined any loan document concerning the supposed advances of manasa scarpio in kala 88 [1:34:34] dito po yung partner niya si dr lebusada tag 47.5 yes sir thank you sir but i'm referring to any [1:34:41] to your examination of any loan document uh pertaining to the supposed advances of manasa scarpio in kali [1:34:49] 88 you did not or were not able to examine any loan document meron po sa fs wala pong loan [1:34:57] document advances po yan yeah yeah i will go to that sir not only loan document but any other [1:35:04] transaction record or records in kali 88 uh supporting this supposed advances okay thank you sir [1:35:12] because you have no access to the corporate records and books of accounts of only the financial [1:35:17] statements okay thank you sir but despite not having seen any loan document or transaction records or not [1:35:25] having seen the books of accounts of kali 88 you still opine sir that manases has advice has advances to [1:35:32] kali 88 totaling i will enumerate sir in 2000 in in 2022 8.7 million correct according to your report [1:35:47] in 2022 8.7 million in 2023 9.5 million sir in 2024 11.1 million and in 2025 [1:36:00] 9.5 million then based on all of these methodologies that you have employed or employed by your team [1:36:08] you came up with a summary of undeclared properties in table 17 uh that's on page 12 sir correct [1:36:19] okay you then opined that out of the total properties of the respondent vp only 20 percent were declared by her [1:36:33] correct correct on average yes sir that is and that was based on the methodologies [1:36:40] that you employed okay thank you sir okay sir uh i hope you're still okay sir you can drink [1:37:02] thank you sir um let's go to the undeclared income sir reference what page is that attorney christine [1:37:14] uh it's on page 15 your honor yes may proceed okay undeclared income uh let's go to sorry we will go [1:37:28] further table 23 sir third column for your easy reference attorney christine let's try to break for lunch [1:37:40] at 12 so you try to manage it a bit where where you'll end [1:37:45] where you'll end [1:37:51] yes your honor actually uh we can pause here your honor [1:37:54] uh [1:38:06] let's go to page 17 sir page 17 on table 23 sir i hope uh you have found it already now yes sir [1:38:19] uh on the third column sir there's a column that that column sir uh says identified bank inflows [1:38:29] correct okay okay under that column sir okay that column the amounts that you provided there in sir [1:38:42] you do you agree with me sir that you do not actually know the nature and sources of these inflows [1:38:48] sources but no inflow nature of these inflows uh their deposits of in cash but the sources of this [1:38:56] inflows you have no personal i have no personal knowledge on the persons who deposited these inflows [1:39:02] okay thank you sir on several check payments with blackout names let's go to page 18 sir on table 24 [1:39:14] i hope uh you already saw that sir was your team authorized to block them out remove the cover was [1:39:23] it your team uh who did that okay it was uh we received it that way okay sir thank you sir for that [1:39:28] clarification now in account number ending 2743 under video account checking for the months [1:39:47] spot you already answered my questions okay okay that accounts are uh ending 2743 sir do not belong to [1:39:56] the respondent as you had already mentioned now let's go to this uh lourdes lebosada on page 18 item number [1:40:07] two okay you said that this lourdes lebosada uh was the dentist of the vice president correct and [1:40:16] uh you appended her photo and the photo of the vice president correct and this lourdes is also the payee [1:40:25] of the check amounting to 11.35 million correct tama po and amounting aggregating po marami pong cheque [1:40:33] po yan okay sir thank you sir and even last friday uh you commented hindi naman yata ito bayad [1:40:40] sa pasta something along those lines it's okay sir um but actually you do not have personal knowledge [1:40:50] on the purpose of such payment or payments as you said that is correct okay thank you sir whether uh [1:40:56] those payments were for payment for obligations purchase of property you do not actually know the [1:41:03] purpose of the purpose of those payments okay thank you sir the same is true with respect to the rest of [1:41:08] the pays uh under letter b to f sir okay sir but you do not have personal knowledge as to the purposes of [1:41:22] the issuances of checks to these people okay thank you sir now sir let's go to item three uh item three on page [1:41:40] nine nine nine nine this supposed security back account number zero three nine two i will not okay [1:41:49] that's the beginning those are the beginning digits now you do not have personal knowledge on the reasons [1:41:55] of the fund transfers under this paragraph sir wala okay although partner niya po yung okay sir but the [1:42:03] reason for the fund transfers you do not know those sir wala okay thank you sir now let's go sir to [1:42:13] uh tinikling number four item four this is the alleged kiting of checks under item four sir i i think i [1:42:26] already got the answer earlier uh that you already that you know also that this is the account of uh the [1:42:33] former president with uh the vice president sarah duterte now sir on this item sir are you aware that none of [1:42:42] the mcs mc application forms were signed by the vice president i'm aware okay thank you sir and you [1:42:48] confirm that now it's all thank you are you aware also sir that this account uh was held by the former [1:42:58] president rodrigo duterte either singly or jointly with the vice president thank you sir in any case [1:43:09] sir you do not know then the purpose of the purchase of these mcs correct that's the purpose yes sir you do [1:43:17] not know the purchase of the mc yes sir you do not have personal knowledge as to the purpose of [1:43:23] the purchase of these mcs uh kita we can only observe yes sir but the answer is sorry i have to i [1:43:31] have to stop you right there sir the answer is yes you do not have personal knowledge personal [1:43:36] knowledge and the state of mind is shown by the actions anyway i'll move on sir now with respect to [1:43:42] the credit card records uh let's go to page 20 sir page 20 sir actually you referred to the 256 880 [1:44:02] 2.5 nike pavilion kl kuala lumpur purchase which you mentioned last friday of course okay thank you [1:44:11] sir now sir are you aware that this credit card belongs to manasa scorpio sir and are you aware that [1:44:17] uh the purchases that were made therein was for the purpose of providing sports apparel and other [1:44:26] items to the basketball team of his son are you aware of that not aware okay thank you sir let's go [1:44:32] also sir to the ginza inakaya tokyo expenses uh that was also referred to you referred by you in your [1:44:40] testimony last friday sir um are you aware sir that this expense or this expenses pertain to uh expenses [1:44:53] incurred of a large group with manasa scorpio while he was traveling with uh this companion i assume [1:45:01] it's a large group yes yes and because are you aware that the reason are you aware that the reason [1:45:09] for this is that the members of this group have no available japanese yen with them that's why they [1:45:15] had to use the credit card of manasa scorpio you're aware of that sir i i don't i'm not aware [1:45:23] thank you sir you're not so that is yes now sir um in computing the alleged undeclared income of the [1:45:37] spouses you pierced the veil of corporate fiction of metro city chow and gen corp correct and calia 88 [1:45:46] yes sir of course uh that is also in in your report so these four corporations uh sorry three corporations [1:45:58] um separate juridical entities were pierced and when we say pierce sir okay when we say pierce piercing the [1:46:07] bill you are setting aside the corporate the separate juridical um personalities of these three [1:46:13] corporations correct because of an alleged fraud in the pusha alleged no because of your supposed findings [1:46:24] okay your supposed finding of fraud findings from the numbers yes that is based on your assessment [1:46:33] your opinion my observation observation observation okay we we will take that answer now without [1:46:46] declaration of dividends because you pierced the veil already of the three corporate entities [1:46:52] you imputed 20 percent alleged income in the case of gen corp using the equity balances yes sir the one [1:47:01] that you identified earlier okay representing the alleged share of the respondent in the income of gen corp [1:47:09] as well as metro city because metro city has a she has a 20 equity based on your analysis okay and all of [1:47:20] these attributions was because of the supposed fraud that uh your exam that uh you're based on your own [1:47:29] assessment sir based on your own assessment there was an alleged or supposed fraud that were perpetrated [1:47:36] by the respondent using the separate juridical entities sir that's why you pierced the veal of corporate [1:47:44] fiction in the pusha supposed fraud not reporting pusha in your case that is your findings that is europe [1:47:50] anyway um you also mentioned the tax code sir in in um explaining the piercing the veal you also referred [1:48:04] to the tax code okay where a supposed under declaration in sales of more than 30 percent gives a prima facia [1:48:12] presumption of fraud is that correct now but you are aware sir that the national investigation division [1:48:21] in so far in so far as its audit of the books of accounts of and records of the vice president [1:48:27] and mr manas scarpio has not in any way came up with any findings of fraud [1:48:35] but are you aware sir that uh the spouses scarpio are not are are being audited by the nid national [1:48:46] investigation division okay okay sir and no case for tax evasion or fraud has been filed [1:48:53] against the spouse scarpio by the bir before the doj are you aware of that not yet not yet okay you're [1:49:01] not aware not aware okay no criminal case for tax evasion or fraud was filed individually against the [1:49:08] spouse scarpio before any court in the philadelphia okay finally you agree with me that this is it is only [1:49:16] the court who can affirm or dismiss any finding or of tax evasion or fraud and you are not aware of any [1:49:25] judgment that was rendered against the spouse scarpio for any crime involving tax evasion and fraud [1:49:33] okay so sir your honor i think we this is a good time to have a lunch break it it's 12 1. it is a good [1:49:46] time kindly situate um attorney cabrera to the witness stand uh presiding officer idol ko po si [1:50:13] attorney ronel eh hindi ka rin kumain natuto na rin po kong intermittent fasting good for you [1:50:21] um no no one you po napatuloy kay mag ibigayin ninyong testimonyas ang ayon sa nauna niyong pinanumpaan [1:50:26] ka nung nakaraang biyernes opo salamat po um you may continue with your cross when you're ready [1:50:33] attorney christine thank you your honor good afternoon sir good afternoon just few more [1:50:38] questions um in your cv sir uh you mentioned several times your professional affiliation with pwc [1:50:47] correct thank you sir and you retired uh from pwc in 2025 correct pwc was not engaged for the purpose [1:50:59] of this investigation pwc did not review approve or authorize your report correct pwc did not also [1:51:09] authorize your testimony today sir thank you in so far as this case is concerned you are not authorized [1:51:17] to speak on behalf of pwc correct so when you reference pwc experience in your cv this court should [1:51:26] understand sir that your report has no pwc quality control review or endorsement sobrang tama po [1:51:34] thank you sir no further questions your honor