OFPG - Interview with Eric Lang & MORE! [Tabletop Spotlight]

[00:00:00] Speaker ?: I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. [00:03:00] Speaker 1: Good morning, everybody. Good morning, folks. Good morning. Yes. Happy fall, y'all. [00:03:10] Speaker 2: Happy fall, y'all. It's fall. And it's October. It is. It's Halloween time. [00:03:17] Speaker 1: Yes. But it's not fall weather yet. [00:03:21] Speaker 2: All the spooks. No, no, no. It's like summer's still here. [00:03:24] Speaker 1: So we went from rain and flooding to a week of heat. [00:03:28] Speaker 2: It is summer. [00:03:29] Speaker 1: What did we have yesterday? Ninety-one. [00:03:31] Speaker 2: We broke records. Yeah, it was hot. Ninety-one. It was hot. And it said it's going to break records again in the 90s. I'm like, when is summer leaving? I don't know. I don't know. [00:03:40] Speaker 1: It's okay. It's still fall on the calendar. [00:03:43] Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's not really. [00:03:44] Speaker 1: And I'm going to get into my fall colors. [00:03:46] Speaker 2: Well, they said next week here in Omaha is going to be fall weather. So it's coming. [00:03:53] Speaker 1: All right. [00:03:53] Speaker 2: But it's not here right now. [00:03:55] Speaker 1: I like fall. I like the changing of the leaves. I love the colors of the leaves. I really like fall a lot. [00:04:03] Speaker 2: Yes. Monica said all the Halloweeners are coming out. They are. [00:04:06] Speaker 1: Oh, my goodness. [00:04:07] Speaker 2: We talked about this last week. Yes, it's Halloween coming out. [00:04:10] Speaker 1: The decorations we're seeing in our neighborhood. [00:04:12] Speaker 2: Oh, my goodness. Well, that one house and the neighbor next door, they kind of, they went like Disney World. They went Disney World. [00:04:20] Speaker 1: Way too much. Yeah, they went. I was telling Mick, we were talking this morning. I said, I'm so happy we live on the street we live on. Yes. Our neighbors are quiet. Yes. They're real nice. They don't bother anybody. [00:04:30] Speaker 2: They don't bother nobody. [00:04:32] Speaker 1: But some of these streets. Those folks, they were bothering me. [00:04:37] Speaker 2: I'm happy we don't live across the street. I'm like, wait a minute. Why are you putting that second big spider there? [00:04:44] Speaker ?: Exactly. [00:04:45] Speaker 2: That spider's too big. [00:04:46] Speaker 1: You know, we talked about going to get some pumpkins for the front because coming up to our front door, there's steps. And we talked about getting some pumpkins for the steps, but we haven't done it yet. [00:04:55] Speaker 2: No, we have not done it. [00:04:56] Speaker 1: We still have time. [00:04:56] Speaker 2: We got a little time, but we need to do it. We got a little time. Yeah. Yeah. [00:05:01] Speaker 1: They've got a, there's a fruit stand that's down the street from where we live and they have fresh produce for what, June to October? [00:05:08] Speaker 2: Yes, they do. And they bring out, they have a big... Jillian's, Jillian's, uh, produce. [00:05:11] Speaker 1: Yeah, Jillian's. So, and they bring out, uh, pumpkins and they've got all these pumpkins and we need to go over there and get some. [00:05:17] Speaker 2: Yeah. We need the big ones though. Yeah. So people can see them. Yeah. We need some big ones. We need the big ones. [00:05:21] Speaker 1: So we're going to do that. [00:05:22] Speaker 2: Yeah, we're going to do that. Yeah. But today's sad day. It's a sad day. [00:05:25] Speaker 1: Why is it sad? [00:05:26] Speaker 2: Because Dairy Chef is closing today. Dairy Chef is closing. There's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, um, I guess. It's like a Dairy Queen. It's like a Dairy Queen, a hamburger joint. [00:05:38] Speaker 1: Yeah, they have food, but they're mostly known for the ice cream. [00:05:40] Speaker 2: Yes. They are closing today. They close for the winter. [00:05:43] Speaker 3: For some reason, considered one of the best restaurants in Omaha, but, uh. [00:05:46] Speaker 2: Yeah, they close for the winter and they'll have lines all over the place today because this is the last day. And they keep announcing it. This is the last day. [00:05:55] Speaker 1: Yeah. We, we've lived here for seven years now. And this year was our first time trying Dairy Chef. Yes. And it was good. [00:06:03] Speaker 2: Yes. The ice cream was good. [00:06:04] Speaker 1: Yeah. We haven't had the food, but the ice cream was good. [00:06:07] Speaker 2: Yes. Ice cream, ice cream was good. I liked the ice cream. [00:06:09] Speaker 1: So, and we have, we actually, we went on a day when it was, uh, during the rainy week. So there weren't a lot of people. We didn't have to stand on a long line because we passed by many times and because the line would be so long, I'm talking 50, 60 people deep, we would just pass by. So if I stand in that life ice cream, I'm not going to stand in that line. But we finally found a day when it wasn't a line and we tried it. [00:06:30] Speaker 2: But it's still coming up. You were right. [00:06:31] Speaker 1: Yeah, they were in the rain, but it wasn't a long line. [00:06:33] Speaker 2: And then, and then a tall, uh, ice cream about that being. [00:06:36] Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. That's real. [00:06:37] Speaker 2: That's the ice cream right there. Yeah. [00:06:39] Speaker 1: But it's, they're closing for the winter. [00:06:41] Speaker 2: Yes. They're closing for the winter, which is crazy, but yeah, that's what they're going to do. [00:06:44] Speaker 1: All right, everybody. For those of you who don't know us, I'm Starla. I'm it. And we are. I've had a base game. [00:06:49] Speaker 2: Want that tower. I want that tower ice cream. I want that tower ice cream. You don't need it. I want it. [00:06:55] Speaker 1: Oh my goodness. [00:06:55] Speaker 2: I want the tower ice cream. [00:06:56] Speaker 1: And this week we are doing another tabletop spotlight. Yes. And we have the man himself. Eric Lane. The man. [00:07:06] Speaker 2: He's already out there saying that he's going to razz us. He's going to razz us. Yes. [00:07:10] Speaker 1: Oh my goodness. [00:07:10] Speaker 2: He's basically a family here. Yes. He's family. [00:07:14] Speaker 1: I'm telling you, you know, we got to know Eric our first trip to PAX. [00:07:17] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:07:17] Speaker 1: Yes. We had a meeting with Eric and got to know him. That was what, 2021? [00:07:21] Speaker 2: That's 2021. [00:07:22] Speaker 1: And we haven't been able to shake him since. Mm-mm. [00:07:25] Speaker 2: And he's been all over our city already. [00:07:29] Speaker 1: He's been all over Omaha. Yes. We had a con together. We always have to go out to eat. We didn't even be to the movies with Eric. We just, we just like hanging out with him. [00:07:36] Speaker 2: And now he's going to come back and he's going to probably be all over the city. Yes. He's going to probably be at our house. [00:07:40] Speaker 1: He was our first special guest for OGC. [00:07:43] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:07:44] Speaker 1: And he'll be a special guest for OGC 2027 along with Randy Flynn. And we're just so excited to have him back. Yes, we are. [00:07:50] Speaker 2: Yes, we are. [00:07:51] Speaker 1: So I hope you guys have questions for him because we have. [00:07:54] Speaker 2: No, he said you are stuck with me forever. Yes, that's fine. He cousin. Yeah. He's our Canadian cousin. [00:07:59] Speaker 1: We were talking to him in our Zoom green room. [00:08:02] Speaker 2: We're already planning our dinners for BGG because we'll be meeting up at BGG. And getting ready for him to be back here. [00:08:07] Speaker 1: And be back here. So anyway, just an interesting guy. Yes. Interesting personality. Yes. If you haven't had a chance to talk with him, if you come to OGC or if you're at BGG, say hi to him. Yes. He's interesting. He really is. And you can understand why he's a designer. But I'm not going to get into that right now because we've got the whole show to talk about him. Yes. But we're going to go ahead and see who was first in the chat. Mm-hmm. And say hi to everybody. And if you're out there just lurking around and you want us to say hi, you've got to jump in the chat. Got to say something. Yeah. Got to say something. All right. And before I forget, let me say this. All of our members, I'll probably say it again at the end, we will have our member chat the last Sunday of the month. Yes. Not next Sunday because we will be at CCGC, Capital City Gaming Con, but the last Sunday. I want to get that out now. [00:08:53] Speaker 2: Again, we're going to be at Capital City Gaming Con in Des Moines. And we're doing a live. We're doing a live show. Yes. If you're around there, come on through. Yeah, we will be live. And we have a lot of fun. And they're at a different location. Yes. A bigger location. So, yeah, everybody growing. Yeah. Everybody growing. Yes. [00:09:07] Speaker 1: All right. So, first in the chat, we see Monica from Norway. Welcome to the chat, Monica. Welcome to the chat. Hey, Board Game Queens from Portugal. Yes. Portugal. Welcome to the chat. Hey, Ivan. Ivan is New York. Good to see you. Hey, Blaine. Blaine is Texas. Hey, Dana. Dana is right here in Nebraska. Mimi, right here in Nebraska. Welcome to the show. Who else do we have? Oh, Bobby. Bobby is Kansas. I'm trying to remember. And Estivani with our beautiful babies in Washington State. Hey, Matthew. Okay. I was thinking, where's Matthew? Matthew, where are you from? Dallas. I was thinking, Texas. [00:09:40] Speaker ?: No. [00:09:41] Speaker 1: Are you sure? Austin. Texas. Matthew from Texas. He's Texas. Oh, can we have someone? [00:09:45] Speaker 3: Well, I will stop you. Okay, stop you. Katochi is actually for Tessa Ali. That's for Tessa. [00:09:50] Speaker 1: Oh, hey, for Tessa. Good to see you. We were just talking about you. [00:09:55] Speaker 2: Yeah, she actually caught a lot. [00:09:57] Speaker 1: She caught a show. Well, you can say hi to Eric. He's there in the chat, too. Hey, Eric. Hey, Cap Robotica Show. I think Cap Robotica's New York. All right, what's up, family? How are you? Our one is Ohio? [00:10:08] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:10:09] Speaker 1: Ohio. I'm going to get these right. I said hi to Bobby. Is that everybody? All right, that's everybody who's out there right now. Again, jump in the chat if you want us to say hi. Yes. So, we're going to have a really good question and answer. Oh, we got Best at Star Trek. Welcome to the show from California. Good to see you. Get your questions and comments ready. Eric is ready to answer all your questions. Yes, he is. [00:10:31] Speaker 2: He wants spicy questions, but don't make it too spicy, y'all. Don't make it too spicy. We're still a family show. We're still a family show. [00:10:40] Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes, yes. It's so good to see everybody out there. Yes, it is. Oh, Cap Robotica's from Detroit. Yes. Welcome, welcome, welcome. Good to see you guys. So, yeah, so we're going to get ready with Eric and talk about that. So, oh, we forgot to tell you that yesterday we were at the Lincoln Nerd Fest. [00:10:58] Speaker 2: Yes, Lincoln Nerd Fest. Lincoln is about, what about it? [00:11:02] Speaker 1: They say 45. [00:11:03] Speaker 2: About 45 to an hour away from here. And we went down there and we had a lot of fun. It was pretty cool. [00:11:10] Speaker 1: We did. [00:11:11] Speaker 2: And you talk about nerds. Yeah, nerds. [00:11:13] Speaker 1: We had some cosplay. Yeah. We had video game nerds. We had that many board game nerds. We didn't have board games. Lots of collect... Oh, see, Matthew said Antonio's text. [00:11:24] Speaker 2: Oh, he said Antonio. [00:11:24] Speaker 1: Yeah, so lots of card collectors. There was a lot of Pokemon and Magic the Gathering. And Magic the Gathering. And Pokemon. Yeah. [00:11:33] Speaker 2: But not many board games. But we say we're going to help them out next year with the board game thing. They're going on today right now until like 4 o'clock. So, yeah. But we're going to help them out next year with that. [00:11:44] Speaker 1: Hi, Jamie Butcher from Providence. Providence. Welcome to the show. Hey. Oh, I Heart Museum from Toronto. Welcome to the show. Hey, what's going on? Thank you guys for jumping in. [00:11:55] Speaker 2: We love saying hi to you. Now, the one thing about it is that when we were coming in, the furry people, you know, the people with the furries, busted out. They just busted out. And that person had like a little fan because I didn't know it was hot. [00:12:09] Speaker 1: Yeah, those costumes. It was hot in there. It looked hot. It had a fan. [00:12:11] Speaker 2: It was really hot. [00:12:11] Speaker 1: It looked hot. [00:12:12] Speaker 2: It had a fan. [00:12:13] Speaker 1: It was with 91 degree weather. Yeah. Even though we were inside. [00:12:16] Speaker 2: But it was still hot though. It was still a little. But it was a furry. We're the furry people. [00:12:20] Speaker 1: Yeah. They were like a fox or something. [00:12:21] Speaker 2: I don't know what it was. It was a fox. It was a something. I don't remember. It's that furry stuff. So, I don't know. [00:12:26] Speaker 1: Well, we had a lot of people in cosplay. And it was just fun. Yeah, it was cosplay. So, yeah, it was a lot of fun. It was cool. It was cool. [00:12:31] Speaker 2: A lot of vendors. [00:12:32] Speaker 1: Lots of vendors. A lot of vendors. [00:12:34] Speaker 2: Hopefully, some of those will come to OGC. So, yeah. [00:12:37] Speaker 1: Yeah. So, anyway, it was a really good Saturday. I mean, it was a lot of fun. I enjoyed being out there on Saturday. [00:12:43] Speaker 2: Yeah. It was really fun. It was a lot of fun. It was a lot of fun. And I want to thank the leadership, Steve and Kelly, for being so nice to us when we were there. [00:12:50] Speaker 1: Hey, Shannon Williams from New Jersey. [00:12:52] Speaker 2: From New Jersey. [00:12:53] Speaker 1: Welcome to the show. So good to see all you guys out there. There's been so much chatter going on. And, and, and... What was that? What? What was that? [00:13:08] Speaker 2: That was preparing you for it. That was preparation. [00:13:11] Speaker 1: Well, okay. Well, thank you. [00:13:12] Speaker 2: That was preparation. I appreciate it. See, you kind of knew. See, I gave you a little warning. [00:13:15] Speaker 1: I was confused. [00:13:16] Speaker 2: I gave you a little warning. I gave you a little warning for the news. For the news. All right. For the news. All right. So this is what's happening. This is what happened. Steamforged Games. They got issues. [00:13:27] Speaker 1: Okay. [00:13:27] Speaker 2: They got issues. Now, things have been getting a little uncomfortable over there at Steamforged Games. The publisher behind Dark Souls, Monster Hunter World. They're facing growing criticism over delayed crowdfunding projects, an unanswered refund request, and a serious lack of communication. Okay. Steamforged currently has nine outstanding crowdfunding campaigns representing nearly 19 million pounds in funding. Wow. And people saying, where's my stuff? [00:14:02] Speaker 3: Which is crazy. Nine. Nine. It's Monster Hunter World. It's Helldivers 2. Horizon Forbidden West. Elden Ring. Uthia Cruel For Us. Nine. Heart Survivor. Terra Mystica Special Edition. Bard Sung. And P3 Paints Wave 2. Oh, my gosh. How in the world are you letting them do that? [00:14:17] Speaker 1: Why do people keep funding? Yeah. If the first, okay, I'm going to give you the first one. Yeah. Maybe you got behind and you just had to do a second one and you got two things going on. Because you're a company, you're trying to do that. Yeah. But when you get to the third one. Come on. Now, you're doing nine? You're at nine? No. No. No. So now, I don't know if I blame them or if I blame the people who are giving them money. Yeah. Because at some point, you got to realize, this is going down a dark hole. This is going down a real dark path. And no one's getting their stuff, so we need to stop sending money. [00:14:47] Speaker 2: After I haven't got my sixth game, I'm like, hold up, nine. Stop it. [00:14:51] Speaker 1: Stop it. [00:14:51] Speaker 2: But nine? No. Come on, y'all. Come on, y'all. After significant layoffs earlier this year, the company shifted its focus toward its war machine miniatures business, which is war machine is pretty big. It's pretty big. [00:15:04] Speaker 1: Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa. So, they didn't fulfill nine campaigns. [00:15:06] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:15:07] Speaker 1: And they're doing layoffs? [00:15:08] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:15:09] Speaker 1: Okay, that sounds like embezzlement. [00:15:12] Speaker 2: That's something wrong. Meanwhile, some- You should say allegedly before you say something. I'm sorry. [00:15:16] Speaker 1: That's why I whispered it. Allegedly. Allegedly. [00:15:19] Speaker 2: Allegedly. [00:15:19] Speaker 1: Embezzlement. [00:15:20] Speaker 2: Yeah, meanwhile, some frustrated backers are turning to payment disputes to recover their money. Yeah, so that'll do it. Now, on another front, Dungeons and Dragons and Magic workers over at Wizard of the Coast, they're trying to unionize. Oh. They're trying to unionize. Yeah, it says employees- I understand why. Employees working on Dungeons and Dragons and Magic the Gathering are pushing to unionize, citing job insecurity, excessive workloads, compensation concerns, and protection surrounding artificial intelligence. So, they done. They want to unionize. But, see, Wizard of the Coast, that's Hasbro. They ain't gonna- They ain't gonna- They don't have a little issue with that. [00:16:04] Speaker 1: Okay. [00:16:05] Speaker 2: They're gonna have a little issue. But, here's what's making this interesting. Wizards generated more than $1 billion, billion with a beef, in operating profits in 2025. Yet, some employees saying they're struggling with working conditions and repeated layoffs. So, they're seeking voluntary union registration by October 13th. Mm-hmm. So, it's gonna be real interesting, y'all. That's next week. That's next week. Yeah, a couple days. So, that's gonna be real interesting. But, I hope they unionize. They need to. Mm-hmm. Now, Renegade. Okay. And Hasbro. We're talking about Hasbro. Yeah. Are keeping the partnership going. Now, for some news that might make some classic board gamers smile, Renegade Studios and Hasbro have renewed their licensing partnership to keep their games access and allies acquired, diplomacy, hero scape, and robo rally still going. Mm-hmm. So, that's a lot of people like that stuff. [00:17:09] Speaker 1: Okay, I want to point out Arwen's comment. What did she say? She said, if Wizards didn't want them to unionize, they shouldn't have made the conditions that made it necessary. [00:17:19] Speaker 2: Yes, Arwen. That is so true. That is so true. Yeah, because, to be honest with you, I heard Wizards of the Coast ain't all, like, cool to work for. [00:17:27] Speaker 3: Well, and also, what was really concerning was that the president of, I think, Wizards of the Coast, I don't know if that's true, but he said, like, something along the lines of that he would totally never use AI in products, but he definitely uses it for his own home D&D games. And I was like, oh. Where is he going? He was laughing in front of us. [00:17:48] Speaker 2: That's kind of like a little contradictory there. Yeah, a little contradictory. You can be cool with it. Now, this is the last one. Might make some people mad. If you make you mad, why are you on this channel? That's the first thing. If this makes you mad, why are you on this channel? Canadian teenagers sell 20,000 copies of a political board game. And you say, what kind of political board game? Well, they made a game. These are two teenagers now. They made a game called American Dictator after that crazy kook in the White House, Trump. Yeah, they made it after him. So, it's a Monopoly-style game featuring players competing to control American cities while navigating politically-themed cards in unexpected twists. Wow. Now, these kids made it, and they have sold more than 20,000 copies. [00:18:43] Speaker 1: Yeah. I can see that. [00:18:45] Speaker 2: Talking about the idiot up there. Yeah. I can see it. Yeah, talking about the idiot. I can see it. Yes. So, I can see that. So, congratulations to them. Yes. And keep it going, y'all. Good job, Canadian. Yeah. Good job. Good job, Canadians. Good job, Canadians. Yes. I love it. Love it. So, that is all I have for the news. For the news. Yes. All right. [00:19:04] Speaker 1: All right, everybody. So, that's the news. We have a sponsor this week. Our friends at KTBG. Yes, yes, yes. So, we're going to get a spot from them, so don't go anywhere. And then, we're going to hear a spot from OGC. [00:19:18] Speaker 2: OGC! [00:19:19] Speaker 1: Which is coming up. Yes. Get your tickets soon, okay? [00:19:21] Speaker 2: Yes. Get tickets right now. [00:19:23] Speaker 1: That's right. Get your tickets. So, don't go anywhere. We'll be right back. And when we come back, we'll be talking with Eric Lane. [00:19:29] Speaker 2: Here we go. [00:19:30] Speaker 1: Bring more joy to game night with Kids Table Board Gaming. Step into a world of family-friendly fun with titles like Creature Comfort, Maple Valley, Cafe Bars, and River Market. This year, KTBG has new releases on the way that are sure to land on your most wanted list, including lairs, garden lake, pack and paddle, and seashells. Kids Table Board Gaming makes casual games for serious gamers and serious games for casual gamers. Each game is designed to create memorable moments around the table for family and friends. To explore their full catalog, visit KidstableBG.com. Hi, everybody. I'm Starla. [00:20:30] Speaker 2: I'm Mick. And we are... I've been based games. Yeah. [00:20:33] Speaker 1: We are proud to announce that badges are on sale now for the second annual Omaha Gaming Convention. It's owned, y'all. It's owned. Yes. Yes. Now, our 2026 convention sold out. [00:20:46] Speaker 2: Sold out. [00:20:46] Speaker 1: And we're excited to be in a bigger and better space for 2027. [00:20:51] Speaker 2: Yes. We listened to you. [00:20:52] Speaker 1: We took your feedback. We will be at the Embassy Suites from July 9th, if you're just coming for the convention. Yes. Till the 11th. So, check us out on Tabletop Events. All the information you need for this convention will be there. For this past year, our special guest for 2026 was Eric Lane. Yes. Well, for 2027, Eric Lane is coming back. Mm-hmm. And we've also confirmed Randy Flynn. [00:21:16] Speaker 2: Randy Flynn, the Spill the Jars winner of Cascadia, baby. I like that game. Yeah. Me too. [00:21:23] Speaker 1: We're working on some more special guests. And as we get them confirmed, we will let you know. Omaha Gaming Convention promises to be a diverse, inclusive, and welcoming space that is safe for any and all people from all walks of life. So, come join us and come be with us here at Omaha Investor. [00:21:40] Speaker 2: Everybody's welcome. And everybody needs to be here. Except for the bad people. We don't want none of them. [00:21:50] Speaker 1: All right, everybody. KTBG. Yes. Kids Table Board Gaming. [00:21:55] Speaker 2: Yes. Right now, they are getting ready for the release of Garden Lake by the great Uwe Rosenberg, who is famous for Agricola, where you got to feed your people. I don't think you got to feed nobody in this one. You don't have to feed nobody in this one, but Agricola, you got to feed folk. So, this is coming out on October 14th. That's next week. Yeah. So, look out for Garden Lake. I'm excited about it. It's a tile laying game. Excited to check it out, see what's going on. So, thank you, KTBG, for sponsoring us and letting us see this little gym right here, Garden Lake. Garden Lake. Yes. [00:22:30] Speaker 1: Now, as we said earlier, Omaha Gaming Convention is going to be next year. Yes. I saw second year. Yes. Second year. 2027. Yes. We will be at the Embassy Suites in the Old Market, downtown Omaha. Yes. From July 9th to the 11th. Mm-hmm. Now, we also have our city tour, which we did this year, but we're going to make the city tour a day early so that we have more time for the tour and we're going to have to cut into your gaming. So, if you're going to do the city tour, you need to book your hotel for the 8th. Yes. So, that you'll have that day because we're leaving on the 8th for the tour. So, you probably want to come in on the 7th. But, long story short, go to TTE, check out our TTE page, Tabletop Events page, or go to our website. It's got links to everything. Yes. You can check everything out there. But, get your tickets. Get your tickets, y'all. The Hally Bird is going to be on for a couple of months. Yes. But, don't wait until the end of the year. No. Get them out. Get them out. [00:23:17] Speaker 2: Because, you know, we went over to the hotel. We working, y'all. We working. We went over to the hotel. We working. We working. Trying to see everything. [00:23:24] Speaker 1: But, we went over there, you know, to make our choice because we had to choose from different hotels. But, we had to go back just to get measurements. And, all that stuff. Because, we want to make this event something special. We want to be on top of our game. So, we had our measuring tapes out. Trying to make sure we maximize our space. And, then we realized they gave us another space that I didn't even know. [00:23:43] Speaker 2: Yeah, we gave us another space. You were like, oh, okay. [00:23:45] Speaker 1: I didn't even know we had this space. So, that was good to win. We got to work with this space. So, we really are trying to make it a nice event for everybody. And, we want you guys to come experience Omaha. You know, our theme from the artwork we have this year. I don't know if Grant has showed the artwork. Oh, yeah. [00:23:58] Speaker 2: The artwork. Yeah. From Nick Rivers. Yes. Yeah, from local artists. [00:24:02] Speaker 1: He's a local artist here in Omaha. And, the theme is Omaha, a must visit destination. Which it is. You guys got to come. Eric will tell you himself. It is. I'm sure. He saw all of that. [00:24:15] Speaker 2: Yes, he did. He probably know our downtown better than we do. [00:24:18] Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sure he does. He doesn't say that. So, yeah. He might. He walked all around. It's walkable. And, where we are now. Now, where we were this last year, I mean, in July, I didn't think that was walkable. Yes. But, Eric Lang proved me wrong. [00:24:30] Speaker 2: He proved, yes. He was everywhere. [00:24:32] Speaker 1: He said it was walkable. [00:24:33] Speaker 2: But, this time, this time is really walkable. It really is walkable. And, I want everybody to go down that little spot where, what is that? The passageway. Yes. If you find the passageway in Old Market. We haven't found it yet. We haven't found it. We've seen the pictures. It is beautiful. It is beautiful. You got to find the passageway. Yeah. [00:24:51] Speaker 1: All right. So, we get ready to bring Eric Lang on. But, first, I want to say hello to Roland Reggie. Roland. In the Pacific Northwest. Dead Pan, too. And, hello, Dead Pan. How are you guys doing? Welcome to the show. And, so, we're going to go talk with Eric Lang. So, we'll be right back. Don't go anywhere. And, we'll have Eric with us next. Will you see us next? [00:25:09] Speaker 3: Yep. All right. [00:25:12] Speaker ?: We'll be right back. We'll be right back. And, so, we'll be right back. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. [00:27:26] Speaker 1: Yes, we'll be right back. [00:27:28] Speaker ?: Yes. Hi, everybody. We'll be right back. Yes. Hi, everybody. [00:27:28] Speaker 1: We are back. And, as promised, we have Eric Lang on the show. Yes, we do. [00:27:34] Speaker 2: Yes, our Canadian cousin. He's here. [00:27:36] Speaker 1: Yeah. And, we're so happy to have Eric. As we said earlier, you know, we've gotten to know him over the years. he is just a wild fun and cool steve martin a crazy guy oh you and steve martin back there but he's wild he's fun he has uh just a bubbly personality and like i said he's interesting he's somebody you want to meet and talk to just to pick his brain a little bit now you may feel a little crazy after you pick his brain but that's what's gonna happen it's all good it's all good i wanted to welcome uh amy bow to the show welcome uh thanks for joining us yes all right so i've got my first question you got your first question i know a lot of people got questions but i want to get mine out first go for it go for it first eric uh tell us a little bit about yourself and what made [00:28:24] Speaker 4: you decide to become a board game designer well hello all i i i was waffling on whether i need to should i do like the the the link presidential intro like like hello everyone or just be like hey let's get down to it we want you to be new yeah i think yeah are you sure about that um okay hi all and hi all to the chat um and by the way i may be 53 but i've learned i can be like chat are we cooked [00:28:56] Speaker 2: there we go okay i think he missed out no no i think cooked is still right he's not cooked yet okay [00:29:03] Speaker 4: okay okay okay okay okay i know but it's it's the thing the kids say um all right uh so how to how to get into game design so this is my like my origin story i've condensed it down to a minute and a half okay i started playing uh i grew up playing games like with my grandmother in germany since i was like uh six or seven years old i honestly can't remember but i used to go there in the summer every year in fact um my grandmother lived in a city called noise right very very close to where the essen game convention is um so i visited every summer and there's not a lot to do in the town and i um so i ended up just playing board games with her and they were all like really bad like old school mass market games that like i was really bored with so i just modified them like robots and dinosaurs and uh and stuff like that in there to make it more fun and for me and uh that just kind of never stopped um so i learned i've always been sort of like uh compulsive creative i always have to make stuff so whatever i'm into i need to be making stuff in that space and so i've been making games honestly since i was like six or seven um and then when i was in school i used to make up recess games and i designed a few sports to play um like dagger dodgeball um uh don't play dagger dodgeball not fun um but but like i got i got my reps in i i just loved making up stuff for other people to play and when um i learned very early in my life that when other people enjoy the stuff that i make i'm like it's pure joy to me um so that's that part um fast forward a few years i actually wanted to what i really want to do i went to school for music and i was um uh back in the 80s we if we remember the 80s uh i was a troublesome student like i couldn't pay attention in class and stuff but but i was i was interested in music and so i really um like i was a guitar player and a drummer and i wanted to uh i wanted to be a rock star uh and so i actually went to um i didn't go to school for it but i was i played in bands and stuff forever and um i i did shows and and wrote a bunch of stuff and uh that didn't pan out thank god because then i discovered dnd in 90 in 88 and i played dnd with my friend and that changed my life like that that game uh i made me realize that oh my god there's like games can be like a lifestyle all of this stuff yeah so i've i've been making games between i know 88 and my first published game i've just been designing like every kind of game i played if i played rpgs i designed rpg if i played a flexible card game i designed collectible card games never with the goal of publishing them just to play with my friends um but then i got the notion to play with uh uh to try to publish them and that was when magic came out this is the short version by the way um uh so when magic came out in 93 and i played it like since day one i was like all right i'm gonna do this professionally and uh there's like a whole 10 minutes of extra stuff there but uh we can get into it but basically i just played a bunch of games and i really really really wanted to make games and like i love play so much like it doesn't have to be a board game i love playing video games like playing sports i like going for walking i like banter like just friendly like competitive banter with friends like i just as long as it's playful and joyful i'm into it that's cool i had a question [00:32:38] Speaker 1: for you eric but i'm gonna switch it up a little bit um i guess my question was you know how has been a game designer changed your life but i think the question should be was this always your life path or you said you did music so were you really looking at going into music or was music just a side thing and board gaming was uh the main thing how did all that work together in your life [00:33:01] Speaker 4: uh career-wise i always thought i was going to be a musician i thought i was going to be a rhythm guitarist in a uh in a metal band um and that thank god i mean like i'm sure that would have been fun but thank god i didn't try to monetize that uh um but uh um but honestly until i played dnd i thought i i was always very clear that i was going to be a musician but um after like after dnd and i started making games i was like oh my god i'm way better at this yeah and um and like the of course i also worked in game stores uh for a while so i worked at um a while ago if any we have any canadians in the chat here uh there was a period sorry i don't remember the year uh where nintendo actually had a uh they actually opened a series of retail shops there were not that many most of them in the pacific northwest and vancouver but there was one in uh toronto sorry mississauga too uh called famcom games they only sold nintendo stuff and i was a nintendo fan um so i managed working there for a while and parlayed that in to do some remote work for nintendo um because i wanted to get into video game design i wanted to be shigeru miyamato right and um that didn't work out but but i learned i learned a lot but but i got a taste right as soon as i got a taste for what it's like to do that i'm [00:34:21] Speaker 2: like no this is what i'm doing that's cool great you're a nintendo kid so yeah you wanted to go to what is that the the tree house and well they call it the nintendo tree house and i thought it was a [00:34:33] Speaker 3: literal place i don't think that it is but it would be really funny if it was yeah i always wanted to know like their secret games and stuff so i don't know yeah all right so those are my questions for now [00:34:45] Speaker 1: i'm gonna hold off and let our viewers ask their questions i've seen a lot going through yeah all [00:34:51] Speaker 3: right you don't want to say that because there's quite a lot so okay let's go let's go i'll start it off spicy spicy oh well there's a few that are interesting i'll start with a really fun one first uh monica she's one of our viewers from norway she asked is there a special place you would like to [00:35:05] Speaker 4: travel one for gaming and one not for gaming uh so i'm gonna cheat a little bit um weirdly i don't travel for gaming because i just it just comes with the package right like if if i'm traveling and i'm meeting new like being part of the gamer tribe means that if i travel and i do a lot of traveling it's it's it's a hobby of mine um like i love traveling everywhere but when i'm meeting new people i come in through gaming so i'm always going to meet gamer friends no matter what so that just happens i don't have to plan for it um where do i want to travel oh my god um so where to start uh i mean so i grew up my parents worked for the airlines they both worked for luft hands at german airlines so we used to travel a lot as kids because we got those like buddy passes so i'm very very blessed that i was able to like i think i've been to five or seven continents like but uh when i was a kid wow um i spent a lot of time in europe that was great i love it um and i spent a lot of time in africa which which uh um oh my god i can't wait to go back like i i've been to a lot of like i've been to the south side south africa namibia zimbabwe botswana kenya of course um uh ethiopia but i really want to go to west africa i want to spend i want to actually spend meaningful time in nigeria i want to go back to the air congo um for those of you who aren't in like who aren't following the travel nerd space like i do um like africa is of course it's amazing continent but um uh that it's also uh it's finally entering its post-colonial phase finally yeah um and so like like if you look at cities like dar es salam or uh um or or kigali or like they're just they're growing so quickly um with like chinese money and infrastructure and african ingenuity and that like there's they're really shaping themselves into something magical um uh and like you know i i talk for people and food so um i was so charmed by um the people of zimbabwe i think they're my favorite people on earth um that i want to meet more i just want to meet more people that are away from the western like away from the western diaspora but still but the internet exists right so everybody's the same we're all this like we all have the same influence so like we're just a really interesting time in history that was a long way of saying i [00:37:37] Speaker 3: want to go to africa what you got great all right so another one we have from cap robotica show they asked was there ever a secret prototype that you were proud of but never released [00:37:52] Speaker 4: if you can even say oh sure um like 20 of them like like so so here's a misconception i think right like i've been doing this a long time uh i don't know how many design like i've got like a few hundred design credits like a lot of them are expansions but like i've done a bunch of games i still have more unpublished games than published games whoa um like i still like i fire off ideas like if we go to bgg con right like i've got an idea every day for a game right and it's it's more about like do i pursue it or do i not uh i have like i think most of the things that i remember that i might want to pursue again it's like i have a bunch of wild wacky like like this is a whole new genre of game uh um uh that that like it's really really difficult to get publishers to take a chance on and honestly because they might be ahead of their time so they might be the wrong thing to do um but i mean like like i mean let me think uh uh give you some meat on the bone here uh back in the day i remember uh uh back in the 90s i was working on a collectible role-playing game uh which is like which is like an rpg thing that you bought like little mini books and everybody like you buy them like blind buy them and every your character you'd make your character out of mini books that have these weird cool this is before like uh hypertext adventures were too were widespread but they kind of hypertext to each other and you could like open up keywords and have a bunch of little open books uh um and so basically the pages that you had open were your character at that time you have status pages power pages um the dm would have their own special thing and it was actually a competitive environment so like the collectible incentive would actually push people to get competitive like this all sounds cool right like like wow but but like when it gets down to the brass tacks uh um nobody wanted to publish a collectible role-playing game and it probably for the best i still think there's there's really interesting space there that isn't just nakedly commercial i think there's like really [00:39:54] Speaker 2: artful playful space there yeah yeah that's cool yeah especially when you have more technology to do that [00:39:59] Speaker 3: with yeah yeah oh absolutely yeah all right another one from kepper about it i said what's your process to choose and work with artists for your games if you decide uh i don't get to decide as much as i'd like [00:40:16] Speaker 4: but uh uh but because i'm already spoiled with the problem like i work with so many big publishers and was connected to a lot of big artists like all the artists for the most popular games that that i'm known for were introduced to me by the publisher and in fact it was meeting those artists i was meeting adrian smith it was meeting carl kapinski uh and andre um cofrancesco uh that's like that got me inspired to make those games right so it's a little bit of a virtual cycle the virtual cycle i mean um how do i choose like i just have favorite artists so whenever i talk to a publisher if the conversation comes up which honestly i bring it up a lot if they don't have a theme in mind or if they're not if they don't like if they're willing to go with the theme that i present uh i will usually present artists names and a lot of it comes from the magic artist i grew up with because there's so many amazing artists uh especially from the late 90s early 2000s that i think are um uh pretty undervalued not undervalued underexposed at this point okay because i would love [00:41:20] Speaker 2: to see more you know um african-american uh board game artists out there i've seen that many so if [00:41:27] Speaker 4: any at all so i would love to see more of those come out so yeah there are some that will surprise you um uh i mean so there are some of the several african-american artists for magic that that have just very like they have very non-african names yeah yeah um um and uh mike pondsmith the the designer of cyberpunk is going to hate me for saying this but he's a really good artist oh really he's an artist yeah okay well he's you know he would say no uh i disagree um i would love to have him sketch out some [00:41:58] Speaker 1: stuff he's a very visual thinker like yeah he's cool guy i want to say uh welcome to the show ashy fee and also board game geek hey aldi hey hey hey what's up all right another one is let's see so this is a [00:42:15] Speaker 3: longer one and i wanted to read it just because it was mostly a message so here we go it was from matthew rose one of our uh really recurring viewers glad to see him yes he said he's a member of the channel yeah so he said first off even though you've been conceived as controversial i want to personally thank you for standing up against racism and anti-lgbtq rhetoric i've stayed here before that my wife is transgender that is something that directly affects my family and then he goes anyway dungeon crawlers are my favorite genre of games do you have any dungeon crawl games in the making and can you share i love the drastic shift but i appreciate the message matthew um controversial god i i get it [00:42:57] Speaker 4: i i i do uh um like being anti-racist should not be controversial anyway yeah um true um what a time we live in um uh no i do not have any dungeon crawlers in i mean sorry the answer is always yes if you name any genre of game like i've got something like like my you can't see it but like everywhere around my laptop there's like little prototype bits of stuff around there um sure i've got like nothing that that i'm actively pursuing or obsessed with right now um because i've just done so many of them and to be honest like after so cthulhu death may die i in my opinion is the best dungeon crawler i've ever worked on um that's i mean i pitch it as a cthulhu dungeon crawler because that's what that's what rob and i made it as um and i don't like for a big for a big box experience i don't think i don't think i have anything more like more significant to say in that genre right now so i'm probably not going to do it and i'm very lucky right now like that i i can only i can work on games for non-financial reasons i can just do games that i love or like games that i want to exist um which means i either have to outdo myself right or i gotta tread some new ground and right now i'm so [00:44:14] Speaker 1: obsessed with treading new ground that's cool that is cool i don't want to say hi to luke parnell welcome to the show and hi issue dog that's matt yeah matt kelly we'll see you next week at capital [00:44:26] Speaker 3: city gaming con in des moines iowa all right from bobby picker who was also at ogc he had the demo game for refined um yeah he asked how do you manage random elements in your game design and he says all [00:44:40] Speaker 4: games need to have some randomness in his opinion uh i disagree but uh uh i don't think i'll no of course not i mean like there's a whole genre of abstract games that that that the whole point is that they don't have randomness now i prefer games with randomness um how nerdy do we want to [00:44:59] Speaker 2: get here get nerdy okay okay all right so so um like i mean look this is a channel full of nerds so [00:45:09] Speaker 4: my perspective on this is like all randomness is just a form of hidden information i only like games that have hidden information and what i mean is i'm expanding the definition of hidden information to information that not all players have right or asymmetrically hidden information um there's a lot of so like under that definition like a game with dice rolls is hidden information you don't know the outcome right yeah so you mitigate you find against it all that stuff um uh like like yahtzee is one of my favorite games of all time right like all that is it's just it's just probability management like and live and fun anyway um i forgot the question i'm so sorry i fell down the rabbit hole go ahead no it's all good he [00:45:54] Speaker 3: just said um what's your favorite game that has randomness in it yeah oh i mean i mean [00:46:02] Speaker 4: all my favorite games have randomness in it uh so uh it's like asking what's my favorite game i'm gonna just like like like so in design uh game design podcast hate when i say this my favorite game is poker uh it is just my favorite game um uh uh and you'll find that the more experienced the designer usually defaults back to like old classic games that they grew up on right um but if you're asking a hobby games is my favorite hobby game is probably king of tokyo still to this day oh my god um let's go [00:46:33] Speaker 1: best answer you could give thank you eric and i need to play poker yes i would like to sit at a [00:46:38] Speaker 4: table and play poker with eric yes oh my god no you yes no you do not i will take all your you will not all your money you will not i have a poker face uh-oh um i can tell instantly that you're bluffing [00:46:53] Speaker 1: we got to put that to the test eric all right sure [00:46:59] Speaker 3: so rolling reggie he also has a youtube channel which you guys should check out he said and this is a funny one he said i'm ashamed to say i've only played one eric lang title and he said which game of yours or which game of yours would you recommend as a starting place for a [00:47:14] Speaker 4: medium weight gamer oh oh a medium weight gamer um yeah i mean don't be sorry that's you'd be surprised how many people i run out to in conventions they're like uh i know who you are but i don't play your games um um but i've also worked on a lot of games that you may not know that i worked on um for medium weight gamer so my definition medium weight now would probably include like some like arcadia quest which i know gamers call light but but broadly speaking it's pretty medium um so like i would always ask follow-up questions right like what kind of games are you currently into what's your favorite game because i've done like i've done family games i've done uh uh i've done dungeon crawls i've done like storytelling um i might recommend i might recommend life and ratera to start just yeah yeah that's what i was thinking too yes yeah um and that's a like and if you're if you're a true hardcore gamer you'll call it a light game and that's okay you're wrong and that's fine but um but it's uh it's one of my it's one of my favorite games for me just to play for fun um uh i love that game um if you want heavier than that um if you're like a if you're like a like agricola is a gateway game like game type gamer then i would say like maybe i would probably say blood rage it is my most popular game for a reason it's it is light approachable but it is a drafting game you're going to get your butt kicked by expert players unless uh unless you study up on the cards first all right i'm going to make a comment rolling [00:48:49] Speaker 1: reggie suggested we play the gang eric so when we go to bgg that's that's cooperative i don't want to play with you i want to take your money so that's it right there you want to play with i am not a cooperative player you know that but i love this game she loves the game because it's poker she loves it [00:49:07] Speaker 4: i love it don't you don't you get mad at everybody for mis-evaluating the hands though yes she does [00:49:12] Speaker 1: yes she does i know my experience yes i know that yes evaluating yes yes i know that yeah you're right i love that i still love the game but yeah we're gonna have to some poker i love the king but it makes me so corrupt all right great i always want to put that out there all righty so here's the next [00:49:32] Speaker 3: one up um from for tessa she asked how do you know a party game design is worth pursuing [00:49:40] Speaker 4: oh i love for tessa so much um um okay i'm gonna take a break for one second i promise i'll answer your question uh for all you all who don't know um for tessa is uh oh i'm gonna embarrass you so much so this time let's go this is erin right here so for tessa and i met uh at bgg fun i think several years ago uh it was actually i think it was elizabeth hargrave who introduced us and um i was like i meet a lot of people a lot of creative people and i love young creative energy like it's one of my favorite things but for tesla was definitely one of those like immediately like within 10 minutes of meeting i'm like oh my god like i'm not sure where you're gonna fit in the industry but you're gonna do amazing stuff um and i actually honestly i thought she was a developer not a designer and then she went proved me the heck wrong i love being wrong about that stuff anyway for this is amazing now she's making fat stacks of pokemon good for you um like i in my life i have never said yas queen unironically but but yas queen all right now um i love her question because she worked at funko which is uh uh um like how do you know a party game is worth pursuing um i am i very very very strong and uh nuanced opinions on party games after having worked with explain kittens for four years and hasbro for three years um and that's where i grew up i've i've started with party games they party games are my favorite kind of game uh which most people don't know i just love them so much um but i hate most party games because most of them are too complicated too complicated or too weird or too like so if a party game is worth pursuing in my opinion it has to meet three criteria um the first one it has to um i have to pick up the box and i've gotten from picking up the box not even turning it to the back but from picking up the box i need to have a sense of what the game where the fun is in the game okay what i'm going to be doing in the game and why that's fun i should be able to look at the cover to to figure that out which means the name that have a good name good names really like good and ideally if the name is part of the gameplay that's that's a big help too um now like toyeta games that break that rule like if it like it's like i don't consider loop and louis and stuff party games um it's a strategy game that just happens to have a toy and it's amazing um uh okay so that's the first one the second one is it has to uh when you turn the box around you and read the back of the box the most mass market games uh there's a rule in mass market called by call the one two three punch right the you need to be able like it'll be first thing do this thing the next one will be this thing pays off in the following ways and the third one maybe here's a twist or like there's a lot of extra space there to do something with i should be able to read those three blurbs without reading too many words mostly looking at the pictures and i should be able to teach the game just from looking at the back of the box okay the rule book should have nuances it can have exceptions cases and all that stuff but i should be able to get the game from looking at the back of the box the third one is that the game has to absolutely it's got to be fun of course but it needs to be fun to suck at um most public most party games are because in party games the the um the the key resource uh i'm such a nerd that's how we talk about the key resource in party games is um is emotional regulation right like like they're that you are playing games of eq and um emotional balance so you it's much more important in a party game but when people make choices and when people uh that they don't feel dumb for their choice that the game protects their ego when someone they fail it has to be explainable by like either randomness or by part or chaos or stuff like that but don't put like don't don't put a parent and their kid at the same table have the kid fail and feel mortally embarrassed or don't put people don't put a shy person in a group full of talkers that uh and then feel bad for not being able to talk right which is which is why i like things like apples to apples are so amazing it makes comedians out of everybody levels the playing field um that's so that's by the way that's the surface i love that question thanks for tessa i could talk about party games forever well i'm gonna say right now uh don't play [00:54:09] Speaker 1: a party game with eric lang and you have children at the table which i don't know if we had kids or not but eric is just ruthless we played flip seven he didn't care if you were a kid he was tearing up the [00:54:20] Speaker 4: kid next to him so hold on so this is a practice thing by the way so i spend a lot of time playing games with my like most of my adult friends at this point they have kids around the like the best playing game playing age like between like eight and like 15 or so and i love playing games with them because a they're pure in like how they express their love of the game yeah um they don't perform like adults do um and um i don't feel like a dumb boomer like trying to keep up with like keep up with young stuff but also um the uh kids are ruthless and they're really good at games they're way better than we were at that age and i found like if i cuddle them or or like if i don't push them or pass their ability level or give them some element of either frustration or some kind of incentive um that they they may not be as hooked so like i usually read the room like i'm not like if some kid's on the verge of tears i'm not going to pummel them but if they're if they're competitive i'll match that and i'll push them as hard as as hard as they can to make them want to play again um because i find that game like most games are best when they uh when they demand a little bit from their audience like rise up to the game right and flip seven's great like that it's it's great for norm yeah right they all understand blackfast but like oh special powers like oh the the odds are a [00:55:44] Speaker 1: little different yeah um that's cool that's cool yeah i totally agree i like how you explain kittens with kids and kicking their butts yeah that's totally cool yeah uh monica said they need to [00:55:54] Speaker 2: learn they might lose i i totally agree and i know that roland red you said that jinxo is a is a good [00:56:02] Speaker 3: party game in that way he said specifically he said uh he thinks it's nearly a perfect party game i think there are definitely moments where people feel dumb yeah i guess i agree yeah a little bit a little bit [00:56:13] Speaker 4: i agree i i call jinx so a gamer party game yeah um because because the in party games the scoring like the scoring matters but the scoring is just incentive it's only there the only reason there's a scoring system there is to give you incentive for like for to act rationally yeah right um like charades right like like the only reason you track a point is to make sure people have the incentive to like like all right oh i want them to guess right that's why you have points but jinx so the points matter because there's like that that gamer intersectionality right like you actually have to evaluate like oh hold on i have to think about where do i put my word right that's cool but it's a gamer party game i wouldn't introduce normies to it but i would definitely introduce gamers who don't like party games to it so i love jinx so by the way so what about um green team wins is that one that you can introduce to anybody no not in my opinion uh but it's one of my favorite games yeah i love green team wins so much um now i chat's going to argue with me here for a second and y'all are wrong um like yeah that's true um uh gamer so so like because i i have this argument with designers all the time um and like like because they'll say like uh but i can teach this game to anybody and anybody can play it's like yeah sure you're an expert yeah like an expert i can teach a 10 year old how to play twilight imperium and it will stick but that does not mean twilight imperium is a 10 year old appropriate game yeah it's appropriate if they can open the box with you not in the room taught by somebody else who is clumsy as a sketchy interpretation of the rules and uh i think green team wins unfortunately i love the game i love it to death but i think the thing that's keeping it from bring broad is the core mechanic like be on the green team is a good heuristic but there's something missing in the like oh how do i stay on the green team again like people get confused yeah if you watch people play over and over and over again yeah how do i shoot my card and if you have to babysit them doing that like it's gamers can do that we're used to that like our games require hand-holding all the time but they're uh but party games you can't have that yeah yeah that's true i think with uh when [00:58:26] Speaker 2: i was at my job and i was doing green team wins with a lot of people that didn't know how to play i always had to remind them what they had to do to score and get on the green team and get on the green team i always had to do it like every ride almost yeah exactly that's right and that's a fatal [00:58:43] Speaker 4: flaw for for for mass market uh i mean this game sells really well and as it should it's incredible [00:58:49] Speaker 2: um i love that for gamers though yeah for game for me too yeah it's one of my rare pens i'll always [00:58:54] Speaker 1: play it yeah yeah all right we got more oh of course all right let's hit them let's see and also i [00:59:00] Speaker 3: do want to just point out since we mentioned for tests that she was on of pg voices as well yes yes [00:59:08] Speaker 1: we've had the chance to hang out with fritessa and reggie and a lot of people amy bow arwen in the chat and and we actually hung out with fritessa uh we all went to the movies together yeah it was eric and fritessa and i think marcus and yeah there's a whole bunch of them yeah we saw black people went to see black people too so yeah we yeah we love fritessa yeah we do we do and and eric uh we told eric because fritessa's not going to make it to ogc 2027 but she did put out there on facebook yes i'm putting you out there for tessa that you're going to make it to ogc 2028 yes you said that put it out right now you said that okay just thought i'd say that go ahead [00:59:44] Speaker 4: good hey for tessa if you show up at ogc 28 i'll make it i'll design a game with you on the spot at [00:59:48] Speaker 1: the show oh hold on put it on your calendar for tessa and i know you go around the world but don't [00:59:55] Speaker 2: miss omaha yeah don't miss omaha we're gonna have a public market [01:00:01] Speaker 1: oh uh rolling ready said my goal is to play at least one game with eric at ogc 2027 and maybe a walk he's a big city walker or if you like to walk eric's your guy yes there's your guy yeah let me tell you something funny about eric when we when he first came to omaha last this summer we were driving in the car because we we had checked in at hotel we had to go back home and get something and eric texts us and says that i'm down at the pier i think he said he was at the pier yes i'm like eric how'd you get to the pier oh i walked he walked and that's a that's a distance what is he doing we don't want to get this crazy canadian lost it all the time i'm fine walking and we just have to let go because and for me i guess as a mom i kind of mother people a little bit and i try to mother eric and i shouldn't it's hard it's hard you know and he's gotten used to me fussing at him about motherly things like where's your jacket why don't you have no long pants it's cold eric again he's a character but uh back to uh reggie if you like to walk he's your guy yes he's your guy he's not our guy we don't like we don't like to walk we don't like to walk now we like going places with eric and we're gonna hop in the car and we're gonna take you i've gotten to the point [01:01:10] Speaker 4: where i like trolling starlab like oh yeah i went to some dark alleys yeah and that's what he wanted [01:01:16] Speaker 2: you know that he walked to the airport he wanted to tell you that he likes to stress me out yes [01:01:22] Speaker 1: i'm getting used to it i'm getting used to it kind of but it always catches me off guard all right [01:01:26] Speaker 3: what's the next question so this is for i guess it applies to both of us but uh amy battle she asked are you planning on being at pax unplugged for us i know it's no but no yeah bgg is our last one for [01:01:38] Speaker 4: this year yeah um oh hi amy hello uh amy's also um oh can i embarrass i'm gonna embarrass amy too amy is i met her i think it was a i want to say pax unplugged uh unfortunately the conventions kind of blend together a little bit but i think it was pax and plug several years ago and again another one of those like she was at a booth she had this little booth with some like these little um icebreaker games before uh before icebreaker was a genre so she made all these really cool like just get to know you uh games and i remember um i remember i don't you may she may not even remember this but i like to go to booths and i like i'll ask questions of uh folks if i see something interesting about their games and i remember uh and i asked her uh like oh these games are cool like who are they for uh and i remember she said to me like uh like well do you want the consumer answer do you want the distributor answer the retail answer and i was like that stuck i'm like like so it's like not like just get i really really appreciate people that are talented but i appreciate people with clarity of vision and who do understand the business side of it um because i because i was about to say like why are you publishing these yourselves why you should seek out a publisher and stay creative um anyway amy's amazing you should follow her um she's a trailblazer in this space yes i think she does some of the best uh icebreaker or conversational games out there um now that i've gassed you up i forgot your [01:03:11] Speaker 3: question i'm so sorry she said are you planning on being a pax unplugged that's originally originally [01:03:20] Speaker 4: no um but we'll see i'm gonna see how essen goes i'm going to essen in two weeks um i was planning on going to no conventions this year to take the year off but i'm kind of itching and getting the i don't know i miss my fam so much like i want to go and just meet see my friends and get excited by hanging around smart people i will if i do it will not be at a booth or anything it won't be in any official capacity i might just go as a civilian just go hang out and play games with my friends um so maybe i'll [01:03:47] Speaker 1: let you know after awesome yep eric you're never a civilian no he is not uh i think he had first walked into ogc and i forget the guy that came up to him had the box ready for eric to sign his game yes already took pictures um i want to say welcome to the show salah yakini welcome to the show yes [01:04:08] Speaker 3: all right next up is from blaine mather one of our recurring followers long time i've seen him in yeah um he said what is your favorite game design yours or someone else's that makes good use of [01:04:19] Speaker 4: multi-use cards multi-use cards um yours or someone else's is such a oh that um so what's it here here's the interesting thing um i i don't get attracted to games by mechanics right like like like it like if you said like me it's a worker placement game i'd be like all right what else you got like like like uh what i care about uh at the risk of being like all arty and weird and like like i i care about the soul of the game right where like where where is the but where's the interaction what's the like what's the familiar familiar but novel experiences games going to offer so like multi-use cards i i don't know um uh i'm trying i honestly i'm trying to think about games the feature multi-use cards that i remember that that's a feature um i'm sure there's ffg games oh you know my very very first published game design ever uh which is called mystic domination um which is based on tarot cards um where you play them as you play them as a tableau this is like back in 96 or something like that um this is way before euro games but i um it was a card game i designed because i was it i was mostly a collectible card game designer but i was very influenced by the new wave of euro games uh uh from settlers right and so i made a game that was basically a tableau builder um but the cards all had tarot ranks so when you were resolving challenges you would use the tarot side of their cards and i'm changing my mind star wars deck uh star wars lcg multi-use cards is probably my my best design uh my favorite of mine i'm terrible at it um of my own um i'll get back to you on the published games i'm sorry i just it's i don't think of games that way so it's hard for me to list [01:06:16] Speaker 2: well one that staller loved and and you kind of found out about multi-use cards is uh oh my good oh my [01:06:22] Speaker 1: good oh my good oh yeah that's right yes one of my favorites one favorite yes first time using multi-use cards years ago when we first got into the hobby and it just kind of wrecked me for a little while because i didn't understand multi-use cards yup it's a complicated concept yeah it is because me guys keep telling me it's it's the currency and it's gonna be your building yes and i said where do i get the money from the card the card is the money that's right that's right see you always remember [01:06:53] Speaker 3: your first yeah it was my first multi-use card game all righty here's another one um from matthew rose he had asked a question earlier and he said i personally did not know a lot about you eric and i'm happy to hear straight from you and then he says can you give some advice to people trying to get into board game design or just working for a board game company in general [01:07:13] Speaker 4: uh sure those are two very different questions um and i'll answer each one separately um okay to the board game one is i'll give you a more practical advice for the started with the board game company the other one is going to sound like it's going to sound glib but i stand by it um listen to all the advice you can hear like go to panels read all this read all the stuff and then ignore most of it um like that's why you should um because here's the thing right i can give you all the advice i can tell you everything that worked for me um uh the the the i can give you all the tips and tricks and cheat codes that i use to get like back in the day and those won't work for you because when i started in 96 it was a completely different industry like all those doors are fixed um so now um how to get started in the industry like today um honestly i i'm gonna give you a really bad for like sorry hopefully a better version of like don't quit your day job i hate that um uh there's truth to it i just hate it it's it uh it's not welcoming um but what i like i think the the there's a version of that that's like keep it as a hobby as long as you possibly can because then you preserve you preserve your perspective as you're making games to make a piece of art that is going to entertain your friends right or or people that think like you if you get if you because when you shift it to a commercial mindset it is a it's a complete ship like it changes the way you think about games it uh destroys your ability to enjoy games on a pure level right so you have to be willing to make that sacrifice right it like um it won't happen right away i've been doing game for 35 years and like if if i go if i walked into a game store and somebody came up to me with a like two hour like euro game said you want to play i'd be like and run away i don't want to work right like that that part of me is dead unfortunately um but the um so like don't make the don't make the switch to commercial too fast right like just get good at the art of it play a lot of games um there's a couple of counterintuitive things that i love uh telling people um like play games you like obviously nobody needs to hear that but like um i'm sure there's games that you don't like as a game designer and there's no such thing in my opinion uh maybe mic and star will disagree but there's no such thing as a bad game right there's there's just i mean like there is such thing as broken games and games that don't work sure the effective games 100 right but there's like only inappropriate games like we live in an age where the average game but the the the floor for game design is so high like i played a lot of mediocre games that work they work just fine they have a beginning and middle and end they have agonizing decisions they have multiple pacific blah blah blah i'm getting bored just saying that right but like like there's lots of games that do the thing the engine runs right but like but play games that you don't like that you really don't like but play them with people who love them and spend like do it a lot right i spend a lot of time playing monopoly with people who love it right because a lot of when game designers start this the one of the first things that they're told like pick a game modify that game you should do that but don't don't do it from a snobby like like oh i can do better than this i can make this game better like like like no you can't like this like these classic games have sold millions of copies and have legacy value to millions of families you're making a thing better for you and you should do that to play with the craft but playing games with people who love it will give you a greater understanding of like give you a greater answer why people play games why people play lots of different kind of games and uh how and how to diversify your standards for what is a good game you don't have to love it at the end but you should have a better than academic understanding of why games um i'm forever inspired by richard garfield at one point like he said um i don't remember when it was do you remember when mmos mmorpgs massively multiplayer online games came out back in the day ultima online back in the 90s uh everquest everquest is one of my formative games the the graphical the first 3d graphical mmorpg a lot of game designers were like um it's just like a glorified chat room it's so grindy it's so boring this yeah and yet it was like played by everybody and people loved it like the folks who loved it loved it and richard was uh richard went on the interview once and he said like i thought everquest is the dumbest thing i've ever seen um but my but then i thought well wait a minute uh this game is played religiously by hundreds of thousands if not millions of people what am i missing rather than what is the game missing um you put yourself in that perspective and like like approaching things with curiosity before judgment uh will make you a better game designer really really fast and will help you figure out what your taste is um oh god how do you start at a game company sorry i didn't even get there um how do you start a game company i have no idea i'm so sorry like like because again my perspective is so tainted right like like uh um i'm in this weird position where like i can i could probably have almost any job i want and i just don't want it so like i don't know like like say yes to the first person who approaches you which is useless advice right um um okay here's one thing i will say um there's a lot of people with skills a lot of people who can design a game a lot of people who can a lot of people who can tune a game a lot of people who can win an argument a lot of people who can debate their points um but focus on being a uh focus on being a good human being first a good empathetic human first um be the type of fun that you want to see at the game table manifest that over and over and over again that's actually not that easy for a lot of people but like be just be fun like embody fun and like generally speaking our industry is not not that different from hollywood people work with who they like um you don't have to be a kiss ass you don't have to be a like you don't have to be a nepo baby or whatever but you have to be pleasant you have to be enjoyable and you have to elevate people around you um the um practice uh supporting other people practice complimenting other people practice speaking well about the games you love um speak practice speaking well about games you hate without being offensive and insulting and attacking people's core values um and last last but not least be a guardian of your hobby like uh when you are uh if you are hosting a game night make sure that your space is welcoming like i'm preaching the choir here right but like but like you know be welcoming be all the things but also be a uh be a tank for those who don't have the space to not like a lot of people if you're welcoming people to your game table right like there are people who are not fun to game with and there are people who are going to add friction and like you got it you have to be the tank for that um the better you are at that that actually informs your game design right i make a lot of violent games with a lot of direct interaction but i use a lot of my design space on mitigating that because i want to be welcoming i want to make games like yeah you're going to lose people but it should be not so painful it should still feel fun but i get that by trying to be a fun game player at the table um uh you notice i didn't talk about skills at all like that's all i mean you can just check out right like this is that this is the human side yeah more human more human and unique you are the better you have a chance you have especially in the coming age of getting a shot with a big company [01:15:22] Speaker 2: that's cool that is a short version of the game yeah that's a good version that's good that was really good now now eric one other question now tell us about dino museum that's coming out at essen and everybody has big anticipation for that game so tell us about it so uh so i was surprised it's coming [01:15:45] Speaker 4: out at essen um here's the thing we like we game designers especially we that have been around for a while or we that are working a lot of projects we're usually the last ones to know when our game is coming out um so uh dino museum is a game that i was working on for years ago it's a co-design with ben rossett who did um between two cities which is actually how i met him uh i met i i i cost him the game conventions i love this game i want to pick your brain um and uh he also designed fromage which is probably his best known game at this point um we i love working with people i i just want to i love jamming with people even if nothing comes of it so ben and i jammed and we just like we gelled really quick and we just came up with a bunch of games um at one point sorry i i was doing backstory first dino museum is a light i would say a light to medium euro strategy game of uh there's a little bit of bag building but it's mostly like it's the core fun is pulling dinosaur bones from a bag and placing them in to fill out a dinosaur museum in a way that tour that um uh on goers want to see to score points because it's family game right so like um i don't want to i don't want to overspoil too much and i don't want to describe it mechanically so imagine like you have like you know triceratops you have you you've lost raptors uh um etc and you have uh uh you also have people who are at your museum who want to see particular type of dinosaurs you want to score you want to match them best with the dinosaurs you have and of course you want to uh and there's a bunch of other little things it is way i could teach the rules in maybe three minutes maybe um and you can learn it as you play which i love so if you love like if you love pulling stuff out of a bag uh and and mitigate like and pushing your luck which is one of my favorite like play dynamics right um and scoring points and like not getting hurt too badly when you when you fail or when you bust um and it's fun to lose it's really really really fun to lose um so i made it so oh you played it no no it's not fun to lose yeah i know i know but that's a starlet problem that's not a game um uh so it uh look just play it it's it's good like honestly just it's it's gonna be i think i think only the spanish version with english rules is available at uh essen it'll be coming out in english next year um i i saw the pieces it's really nice i think it's like a 40 game um it looks like more it looks like more than a 40 game it's got a lot of cool stuff in it um it looks like a game that you would expect from me but the here's the thing uh what ben brought to the table which i and honestly i'd say uh um this game is more ben than myself um he like i had this wild push your luck like really broad mass market thing that i wanted to do um and it was a little bit too simple and it was a little bit too like in the middle so he tuned it more toward being a light gamer game in a very so if you like games like fromage and like the the tuning of that game is very very ben um i think you will enjoy it i um uh it i mean obviously i'm biased [01:19:18] Speaker 1: but it's my favorite ben rossett game all right any other ones great otherwise i have one more [01:19:25] Speaker 3: indeed so monica she asked do you have some gaming quirks so i guess define that how you will [01:19:33] Speaker 4: gaming court oh my god like yeah sure i'm nothing but a bag of quirks uh uh um let me see uh i am well i already told you i'm insufferable about party games i actually to the point that i don't play them at cons anymore because i'm way too opinionated uh uh um uh let me see i i love trash talk more than anything it's like and if you're not going to me and starla we love trash talk we love it well we can compete i played games with you guys yeah yeah yeah um like you can tell uh i almost hate to give this away but you like you can almost tell always tell when i'm losing because the the the amount of trash talk i have is directly correlated to the amount that i am losing um especially if it's a game with like hidden trackable scoring like like a lot of days of wonder like like mid-2000s games yeah um uh oh my god small world is my favorite you can always like i get the more vicious the worse i do uh and it's a lot of fun um i love i love testing boundaries at the game table uh like like you know like uh um how much how much like how edgy can we get like i edgy in the in the good way not in the stupid way but like like like can we can we get into a frustrating comfortable place and have fun in that place because those are the best yeah i i find like if the game presents you with something that you're like oh this isn't gonna be fun oh my god this is amazing right like like getting mana screwed in the game of magic and still pulling it out or getting close like i love that kind of scene yeah yeah um my favorite kind of another quirk my favorite kind of games are games of high skill and high luck uh poker right it's game of very very high luck any given hand cure a very luck but the the skill is in the uh is in the curve right yeah um well arguably it's in the career right um but like the i love games like that king of tokyo game of high skill and high luck it looks like a luck fest i will kick your ass out at the first time we play um it's gonna kid it's a game of high skill and high luck um like i love that kind of stuff um i get bored extremely easily um really really easily which is probably why uh like the games like even the big box game i designed are very very they're not like just paired down rules wise but they're like they i try not to overwhelm people with decisions right like with the weight of decisions so if you're playing like i like interesting decisions i like decisions with drama and consequence but i don't like a game where like you're just intense all the time and you're like oh my god how am i going to convert these this brown cube and this orange cube into this put on the wheel it's going to generate me 3.5 victory points at the like ah that's boring to me like like i need a little bit of adrenaline i need a little bit of like payoff and milestones i love i love games that are like um i think of games as dopamine generators more so than like a series of interesting decisions okay uh my favorite video game of all time is diablo 3. whoa um because it's just a it's just numbers go up and it's nerdy enough in a way that you can you can make a character you can crunch it away but at the end of the day you're pressing buttons you're you're having a fairly easy time you're relaxing and meditating and watching your numbers go up i love that in games um my least favorite kind of games are get good games uh like super meat boy or uh or chess or uh like games more like or go goes one of my least favorite games of all time i praise it for its elegance but like i don't want to play a game where like i lose i have no idea why i'm like oh you can put 50 years into it and get amazing give me a bit of a skill plateau yeah um one more quirk i can go on forever so i don't know how many more questions you have um i love designing um uh i'm gonna get clipped here i love designing the skill out of games whenever possible what i mean by that is uh like like if you give me a game i don't mean all the skill right but if if i have a game and i'm playing it and i'm like oh this is too intense too much i'm not getting like uh rutter is a great example like rutter there was a version that ken and i did where it's like he was agonizing the whole way and it's like it's just all puzzles all the time and you don't have you like the game isn't rewarding you for this fun thing you did two turns ago so i like to think of it like like like all entertainment rising and falling tension right put in the work and then spend a few games where the game is just rewarding you here's some candy thank you game i love that kind of stuff so i will um all of my most popular games used to be it there was some version of it that was way more agonizing and way higher weight than it is now um i do that all intentionally um and then you know they're hardcore designers that disagree with me but that's that's how i like to play games i want i want the payoff and i also designed the skill um some of the skill out of games to leave room in players bandwidth for the other players at the table i'm not that like i'm not like i like i understand parallel play games i love roll and write games where we're all just kind of meditating together at a table as long as it's simple but i want like i play games that to enjoy the company of other of other folks yeah i want the weight of my decisions to be affected by what you did right how can i be fun for you like uh how can or how can i be an obstacle to you and a lot of games that are too complex and too uh intense like you you'll be sitting there puzzling your own stuff out and like oh god i gotta interact with you too i don't want that so like i will i'll take out some stuff clash of clans uh is a great example of that like clash of clans is a like you cannot play that game without paying attention to your opponent and it's puzzly it'll it plays above its weight class like i'd call it a light medium game by bgg metrics but because it's so interactive and rewards you for paying attention so much it plays a little bit more intensely because you but it plays intensely because you're playing with other players yeah and [01:26:05] Speaker 1: lots of okay um so this is my last question uh for eric i know you you hate this question probably that people ask you what are your favorite games but give me your top three what are the top three games if you had the choice to play them right now which would you play well right now sure i give you that [01:26:27] Speaker 4: usually right i mean so i'll go through my list of tens right like bg's tens i'll never say no to this game right uh i already mentioned king of tokyo so we'll put that aside um what games well i'll give you some off the top of my head that i'll always say yes to um i'll always say yes to carcassonne i'll always say yes to el grande oh um i'll always say uh uh that's two euro games uh let's go somewhere else here um think think think think think uh uh try not to be a hipster and go go too deep cut here but uh i mean there's so many games yeah i will always oh i mean flip seven i i know it's new but like i'll always say yes to it yeah just yeah it feels like it it feels like a game that was unearthed rather than designed yeah um which i'm i'm i love that um so that's that's my cult of the new pick yeah yeah all right there's obviously so many more well give us two more give us two more i mean i can go on forever okay so i'm looking company here here's my deep cut i'm looking company from uh sorry that's uh that's the german name what's the what's the english name for it's a wolfgang crommer game at one spiel des yaris in 1984 85 it's a roll and move game it was the first um hidden role was it milkman no no um if oh great oh um if you look up heimlich it's a german name heimlich uh h-e-i-m-l-i-c-h and company um it's a german game but it there were english versions of it i just don't remember what the names were i'm sorry um uh um it's it's look here's the game there's a board [01:28:17] Speaker 3: you have eight i figured it out but top secret spies or undercover top secret spies yes ugly this [01:28:25] Speaker 4: game is ugly as all get up uh it's old school it's uh i think it's rated like five on bgg they're wrong like it's just like look the game is just a big board but space is number one through ten and you have a die and everybody is a seeker color right uh like there's eight different colored spies on the table and there's a bunch of spaces with with special uh like numbers one through ten you roll a die you move any number of spies oh sorry each player represents one spy you are that right um one of those spaces is a scoring space when somebody lands there everybody scores the space that the that the their spy is on at that time and you adjust all those scores right um so the the incentive that's it that's the whole and the game ends when somebody crosses to like uh i think it's 39 points and then whoever everybody reveals their color i actually um i added a module to it i didn't realize was in the game but like two-thirds of the way through the game everybody uh has to guess what all the other players colors are and you get five points per player that you guessed right that's the incentive for staying undercover okay okay right um that's it that's the whole game and like the whole game is nothing but table talk like you're rolling a dive but it's so intense and wild and uh and it there's so much emergent strategy and like uh and i love playing this game with hardcore gamers who are like there's nothing to this it's rolling movement they play it and they're like sweating at the end of it um lovely game another old school game sid saxon's i'm the boss one of my favorite games of all time another roll and move game of negotiating it's all these no-no days uh today's modern game scene but it's fantastic it's just a game about like you roll you hit a space and you have a deal here's a bunch of money on the table and you need a participation of at least x number of players and all you're doing is you're making deals with other players like how you're going to split that money almost no players can do anything on their own and there's some special cards in it um it's an hour-long gameplay it's fantastic it's wild you it rewards creative deal making because the rules are so light um and as soon as somebody it's um like a lot of classic games has a lot of group think so once somebody figures out something really clever it's really easy for the rest of the players to like get elevated by that right so you have the old uh um uh like icon veil piercing moments right when you realize like oh my god games are so much more than the sum of their rules those are my favorites right um you should it's amazing um it is tough it's a tough game like like games people who grew up who grew up on games like like today's games are very much on rails like they protect players from themselves you're not protected from yourself at all it's wild west in that game you can just die um uh but but it's fine it's totally fine you'll be okay that's cool that's cool i'll still i'll still place the people anytime okay um i'll i'll play uno anytime oh god uh i'll play you know anytime okay all right i wanted [01:31:35] Speaker 1: to welcome uh marcus to the show he just showed up in the chat late i don't know if he had a statement or question but welcome to the market marcus um and the last thing i'm gonna say here before i let eric go uh matt said there's an older steven fell game the name of the rose is very similar with players having secret colors and moving monks around the monastery monastery okay suspicion points [01:31:58] Speaker 4: yep it's like that except so imagine that game but without all the extra game on top of it remember just like just the core nugget of that so you all your brain space is now free to get in the heads of your other players that's why i like heimlich and company there have been a lot of games that use that mechanism as in service of a much more crunchy game but i always find that i enjoy the game less because then i'm just worried about a puzzle and less about getting in my point yeah okay all right [01:32:25] Speaker 1: we're gonna wrap it up eric is there anything else you want to say to everybody before we let you go i want to say thank you for coming on to the show thank you what else oh my book here [01:32:35] Speaker 4: uh like look i mean i don't i mean i i want to plug your channel but i don't have to like um like i don't know man like like just be fun like like we live in weird like we live in weird uh i'm gonna use the word weird because it's politically correct we live in weird times right now yeah and like uh uh look i'm struggling with this with this myself i design games for a living right i'm not in politics i'm not like i'm not in charge of a major foundation like i struggle with the idea of like like like like in times like this like how do we do how do we make what we do matter right and it really it's really important to constantly recognize that like like survival matters um being joyful matters of being joyful for other people elevating other people matters um now is the time like now when we're like it's really easy to think like oh my god the world could end any second like uh things are scary uh like why even bother like worry about like like you know like my little diversity and gaming project or my little like like like this is the time like these it's more important than ever to focus on wins that you can get right so like make a new friend invite a new gamer to the table like expand your horizons um go to gaming cons take uh um go to ogc oh geez it's so fun yes if you go if you go to ogc how about this how about this i'll i'll end it with this uh i have a game uh that i have this homebrew game that i use that i call imdb balderdash it's a it's a homebrew game that i make that that's based on balderdash that i play it has unlimited players you can play as much as you want and it's it's crazy and silly if you sign up for ogc this year you can play in my game i will play it i'll pick a night we'll play it and it's unlimited players will be a huge gaming thing but only if we get like a hundred new signups i love that i love it the challenge is there yes it's [01:34:39] Speaker 2: going to be an event room the challenge is we're going to put that in the event room yes 100 new [01:34:43] Speaker 1: signups do it today get your badges i'll write that down all right that game is it is ridiculous [01:34:49] Speaker 4: it'll be crazy with a hundred thousand a hundred thousand sorry we will we will assign that to our [01:34:55] Speaker 1: event room so you have plenty of space to just have at it and have fun but eric thanks again we look forward to seeing you next month at bgg fall yeah aldi will see you as well um looking forward to everything uh thanks so so much everybody for coming out your wonderful questions and comments were just awesome you really helped make the show and eric don't go anywhere we're going to sign off with eric so you guys don't go anywhere we still have our dad joke we have a few more announcements to make so we'll be right back all right we'll be right [01:35:24] Speaker 3: back all right insert [01:35:34] Speaker ?: so so so so so so so so so i so i i i i i i i i i i i [01:37:19] Speaker 1: i [01:37:31] Speaker ?: i i i i i [01:37:31] Speaker 1: i i i i said if you i said if you meet him you're going to be inspired you're going to take something away from the things he says [01:37:52] Speaker 2: he's just an interesting guy well what i took away is that i'm glad he talked about the the elements of the elements of the elements of the elements of a party game that you should see yeah i mean it's almost like i'm looking i'm thinking about all the party games that said okay did that check off that box did it check off that box did it check out you know check off that you know that number they did and i'm like okay jinx so is cool and you know you just think about all the you know different board things about green team wins it it did because the way he described it and i'm like yeah that happens so but just the first thing he said that if you pick up that box that the the cover needs to draw you in immediately you know to a party game so i mean just to me any game yeah if the cover doesn't get me i'm just gonna push [01:38:43] Speaker 1: to the side and move on that's true i'm not even gonna turn the box over but he said for a [01:38:46] Speaker 2: party game it has to attract you straight up and i mean just hearing that i'm like wow okay so yeah he had some great stuff he said about and especially at the last saying just be a good [01:38:55] Speaker 1: human but that's what we talk about all the time you know i mean you know just you have to be in the [01:39:00] Speaker 2: hobby for that just just and he's so right just be a good human i think people forget that that just [01:39:05] Speaker 1: be treat people the way you want to be treated yes if you can just live like that this is how i want to be treated i want you to respect me i want you to you know talk uh well to me or whatever you got to do the same things you got to speak nicely to people you got to respect people yeah and just like he [01:39:20] Speaker 3: said be a tank for the hobby oh see about that box cover thing see matthew said mick starlin's [01:39:26] Speaker 1: been saying that for years she has been saying that for years yes yes hey foyo games he made it to the show yo was around yeah yeah yeah you should have asked him before you should have jumped in early and ask your question yeah yeah maybe say a great interview with eric yeah she got a chance [01:39:44] Speaker 3: to meet eric uh at ogc yes you asked him in person come to ogc yeah maybe you know one of the ones he [01:39:50] Speaker 1: said yeah maybe we did talk to him yeah yeah all right so anyway everybody let's do this dad joke [01:39:56] Speaker 3: from blaine what do we have he said why should you never take the stairs at the library i don't know why there are way too many stories [01:40:08] Speaker 1: that's a good one that's a good one that is so true all right family thank you oh go ahead i'm sorry i wanted to let everybody know again uh if you are a member uh be sure to come on the last sunday of this month next week we'll be at capital city gaming con we are doing a live show but we won't be doing our member chat but the last sunday of this month we'll be back and we'll do our member chat so we'll get ready for that and again we'll be at capital city gaming con next sunday uh just want to say hi to [01:40:38] Speaker 2: black spartan 615 definitely check him out online he talks about a lot of you know what's going on in politics and stuff so definitely check him out on youtube welcome to the show black spartan if you [01:40:49] Speaker 1: didn't catch all the show go back see this interview with eric lane it was just awesome yes check it out [01:40:56] Speaker 2: check it out that's it for me so family thank you so much for coming out this sunday we always love seeing you always love being with you this was a great show thank you for showing up hope to see a lot of you back again next time and remember we'll be at ggc we'll be at uh ccgc and we're going to be live at a con so definitely come around and check that out but always know family where can you find us oh where can you find us and subscribe y'all where can you find us and subscribe [01:41:28] Speaker 1: and like the show um if you're looking for our family plays games you can find us on facebook yes instagram blue sky yeah threads tick tock yeah on our website website and right here on youtube right here and we're also on bgg every month we put out a new top five on bgg if you haven't checked that out go to board game geek uh dot com on youtube and check not dot com board game geek on youtube and check it out we're also in the documentary film the hobby tales from the tabletop on apple tv and prime [01:41:58] Speaker 2: video definitely definitely and also check out our nebraska public media oh and oh also we forgot the [01:42:05] Speaker 1: podcast yes yes the podcast just came out we got a lot of stuff y'all um and i will have to pull out i don't think i uh printed it but we'll talk about that next week a new podcast we're in came out as [01:42:15] Speaker 2: well so we're busy we're busy y'all we're everywhere we gotta be everywhere we are busy all right so thank you so much for showing up and we are but always know y'all always know always be careful but always know we love you bye everybody [01:43:00] Speaker ?: you you