NPR CEO gets DESTROYED at Congressional Hearing — KEY MOMENTS

[0:00] Ms. Maher, who is Uri Berliner? [0:04] Mr. Berliner is a former senior editor. [0:07] That's all? [0:08] A former senior business editor for NPR. [0:10] How long do you work at NPR? [0:11] I believe he was there just over 25 years. [0:13] 25 years? Award-winning journalist? Did he win any awards? [0:17] Our time to... [0:18] Peabody Award? That's pretty important, isn't it? [0:20] That is, absolutely. [0:21] A pretty distinguished journalist, right? [0:23] Certainly. [0:23] And he wrote a long story about what you do at NPR. Is NPR biased? [0:29] Congressman, I have never seen any instance of political bias determining editorial decisions, no. [0:37] Well, Mr. Berliner, in his story last year, wrote, [0:44] In the D.C. area, editorial positions at NPR, he said he found 87 registered Democrats, zero Republicans. Is that accurate? [0:55] We do not track the numbers or the voter registration, but I find that concerning. [0:59] It was award-winning journalist who worked 25 years at NPR, Mr. Berliner, was he lying when he wrote that? [1:05] I am not presuming such. I just don't have...we don't track that information about our journalists. [1:10] 87 to zero? And you're not biased? [1:12] I think that is concerning if those numbers are accurate. [1:15] It's concerning. I mean, it wasn't 44, 43. It wasn't 60, 27. It wasn't 70, 17. It wasn't even 80 to 7. [1:24] It was 87 Democrats, zero Republicans. And you say NPR is not biased. [1:32] How about the big stories over the last few years? According to Mr. Berliner, again, he wrote on the Trump-Russia story, he wrote, [1:40] At NPR, we hitched our wagon to Trump's most visible antagonist representative, Adam Schiff. [1:46] They said they interviewed him 25 times. Is that accurate? [1:48] I was not there at the time, but those numbers sound accurate. [1:51] Those sound accurate. But then he said when the Mueller report came out and they said, Mueller said, Robert Mueller said, [1:56] he found no evidence of collusion. He said, Russiagate faded from our programming. Is that accurate? [2:03] Again, I was not there at the time. I'm not, I couldn't say. [2:06] You couldn't say? [2:06] I was not at NPR at the time. [2:08] You didn't prepare for that? You knew we were going to ask you about this guy, didn't you? [2:11] It's come up like 6,000 times already in the hearing. [2:13] I just couldn't say whether it faded from our coverage, sir. [2:17] How about this story? October 2020, the New York Post had the Hunter Biden laptop story, [2:21] and one of those editors, I guess one of those 87 Democrat editors, said this, [2:28] We don't want to waste our time on stories that are not really stories. [2:31] We don't want to waste the listeners' and readers' time on stories that are just pure distractions. [2:36] Was that a pure distraction story? [2:38] Our current editorial leadership believes that that was a mistake, as do I. [2:42] Yeah, the whole country knows that was a mistake. [2:45] Definitely impacted the election, or I think it certainly impacted the election. [2:48] How about the COVID origin story? That's a pretty big story, too, right? [2:52] Mr. Berliner said, We became fervent members of the team Natural Origin, [2:56] even declaring that the lab leak was debunked by scientists. [2:59] Turns out, though, the lab leak is what most people think actually caused the COVID virus. [3:05] Sorry, sir. Is there a question there? [3:06] There is. You guys were 0 for 3. [3:08] On the three of the biggest stories in the last five years, you guys were 0 for 3, [3:13] and yet you maintain that NPR is not biased? [3:17] Congressman, I do not believe we are politically biased. [3:20] No, we are a nonpartisan organization. [3:21] A nonpartisan organization. [3:23] What's happened to your listeners over the last five years? [3:26] Went up, down, or stayed the same? [3:28] It has gone up and down and is now going back up. [3:31] Well, I thought five years ago it was at $60 million. [3:35] And you said in your opening statement, I think, $43 million. [3:37] That's correct. [3:38] So $43 million now, and it was at $60 million five years ago. [3:41] I can do some math. [3:42] That looks like it went down. [3:43] And is now going back up. [3:45] Is now going back up? [3:46] Yes, it is. [3:46] How much has it went back up? [3:48] It's gone up a couple of millions over the past year. [3:50] Oh, so you went from $60 million to $41 million. [3:54] Now you're back up to $43 million. [3:55] In a year's time, I'm very proud of that growth, sir. [3:58] Okay, you're proud of that growth. [3:59] Okay. [3:59] But over five years, this went down $18 million. [4:01] That is correct, sir. [4:02] Okay, should taxpayers subsidize NPR? [4:05] I believe that taxpayers subsidize local stations, sir. [4:09] That is the vast majority of what. [4:10] I thought you said you got $11 million from Corporation of Public Broadcasting, [4:13] which is taxpayer funding, directly to you, right? [4:16] That is to support the public. [4:17] And then local stations get it from the Corporation of Public Broadcasting, right? [4:21] They get taxpayer money. [4:21] $100 million that goes to the local stations. [4:23] $100 million goes to the local stations. [4:24] And then there's local stations buy back programming content from you. [4:27] So that money goes to the local stations, comes back to you, [4:30] gets routed through the local stations, all taxpayer money. [4:32] Those fees are actually based on private donations rather than on federal funding. [4:36] Well, we all know money is fungible, so some of it gets put in there. [4:40] Certainly. [4:40] We could agree that money is fungible. [4:43] More money for less listeners. [4:45] You fired the guy who pointed all this out, [4:47] who said that you were so biased to the left that you lost listeners, [4:50] which is actually happening. [4:51] And you're here maintaining that, oh, you need to continue to get taxpayer money. [4:55] I did not fire Mr. Berliner, sir. [4:57] Okay, the guy that left after all that. [4:59] Understand, understand. [5:00] Are you fundraising off today's hearing? [5:03] Sir, I believe that there was a message that went out earlier today letting people know we were coming in. [5:09] Yes. [5:09] Yeah, and at the bottom of the message it said, donate now, right? [5:13] I don't recall the exact language. [5:15] I can show it to you. [5:15] Right there it is. [5:16] Donate now. [5:17] I mean, I'm not against fundraising. [5:18] We all do it. [5:19] I mean, I get it. [5:20] But I assume this fundraising is probably going to all the left listeners who are subsidized content by the taxpayers. [5:29] And that's the rub. [5:30] The gentleman's time has expired. [5:31] That's the rub. [5:32] Mr. Ullman, I'm glad you brought up a point. [5:34] It's been mentioned a couple of times already at the early start of this hearing about rural and remote. [5:41] And I have to tell this story. [5:43] When I graduated from college with a degree in agriculture, I went back to rural Monroe County, Kentucky. [5:48] Uh, and worked on a farm, my farm, for five years, full-time. [5:54] Uh, farm to this day, but full-time. [5:57] I was in a tractor sometimes 10, 12, 14 hours a day. [6:01] And I listened to the radio. [6:02] And the only radio station I could get that had news was, was public radio. [6:09] So I listened to as many hours of public radio as anyone on this panel, I can assure you. [6:15] And it was, it was a great service. [6:17] That was 30-some years ago. [6:19] Today, in that same remote area, I mean, you've got SiriusXM, you've got podcasts, there's internet access now. [6:27] There's a whole menu of, of media options now. [6:32] So, but over time, and I still occasionally listen to NPR because I just want to hear what they have to say. [6:40] And I don't even recognize the station anymore. [6:44] It's not news. [6:46] I feel like it's propaganda. [6:49] I feel like there's disinformation every time I listen to NPR. [6:53] And, you know, a media entity like MSNBC or Huffington Post that, in my opinion, consistently spews disinformation, they can do that. [7:03] That's, they're a private company. [7:05] But NPR gets federal funds. [7:07] And, you know, I have a problem with that. [7:11] Because if people in, in Alaska, if all they have is public radio, then all they know is what these headlines say. [7:19] And they're wrong about COVID-19. [7:22] And the headlines are in the background. [7:24] I don't have time to go over all these headlines that are wrong. [7:27] About Russian collusion. [7:28] Wrong. [7:30] Wrong. [7:30] About the Hunter Biden laptop. [7:33] Wrong. [7:34] And then there's a story about me. [7:36] And part of what we went through on this committee during the Biden investigation, which, by the way, ended with Joe Biden's last act as President of the United States, pardoned his entire family preemptively for an 11-year period, which just so happened to be the 11-year period that this committee investigated the Biden, that we had subpoenaed bank records. [7:56] I don't think NPR reported about the pardons, but they reported a lot about how there was no evidence of any wrongdoing and things that just weren't true. [8:07] In fact, there's a story NPR, lawmaker leading Hunter Biden House investigation, accused of owning a shell company. [8:18] Well, that's me. [8:19] Ms. Mayor, are you familiar with that story that NPR wrote about me at the height of the Biden investigation when you all were disputing every aspect of our investigation that is 100 percent factual we have? [8:36] Hundreds of pages of evidence, hundreds of pages of bank records, hundreds of pages of emails. [8:42] Do you remember the story that NPR wrote about me saying I had a shell company? [8:47] Ms. Congressman, I was not at NPR at the time, and I'm unfamiliar with the story. [8:51] Where do you get your sources on something like that? [8:54] That's a very serious accusation because we're investigating a president and his family who had 28 shell companies. [9:01] I have an LLC, had five properties in it. [9:04] It's in my financial disclosure form. [9:07] I've gone into great detail, given lots of interviews. [9:10] But people that listen to NPR, they're totally disinformed on the truth. [9:18] And, you know, I have a problem with that because you get federal funds. [9:23] And I do believe there was a role for public radio 30 years ago, maybe 20 years ago, maybe five years ago. [9:31] But because of technology today, I don't think there's a role for public radio anymore. [9:37] And I think you've abused the privilege that you had with receiving federal funds because these headlines here are not true. [9:48] This is just information on some huge topics. [9:54] Do you want to dispute anything that I said in the remaining 30 seconds? [9:57] Thank you, Congressman. [9:59] First of all, I want to recognize your concerns. [10:01] One of the first things that I did in coming in in May was to beef up our editorial standards. [10:07] I directed my editor-in-chief, who, by the way... [10:09] Why is NPR even doing editorials? [10:11] I'm so sorry. [10:13] Should NPR even do editorials? [10:13] I don't mean editorial in terms of opinion editorial. [10:16] Do you even need opinion? [10:17] What does it matter with opinion? [10:19] If you're a federally funded entity that's supposed to provide the news, can you not provide the news? [10:27] Of course, Congressman. [10:29] I mean editorial standards for our journalism was to beef up our editorial practices, [10:35] bringing in more editors to make sure that we have more points of view reflected in every story. [10:40] I've engaged in a number of actions trying to address some of these concerns. [10:43] And my time's expired. [10:44] I've lost confidence in public radio. [10:46] I don't think, Madam Chair, they should get a penny of federal funds. [10:50] I yield back. [10:51] Ms. Maher, I want to start with you. [10:53] Just generally, would you say you generally agree or disagree with the following statement? [10:58] The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggles? [11:03] I would not say I agree with that, sir. [11:05] You're not. [11:05] That's good to hear. [11:06] It's interesting because a lot of your thinking, as expressed by your public statements, [11:10] is deeply infused with economic and cultural Marxism. [11:15] Do you believe that America is addicted to white supremacy? [11:18] I believe that I tweeted that. [11:20] And as I've said earlier, I believe much of my thinking has evolved over the last half decade. [11:26] It has evolved. [11:26] Why did you tweet that? [11:28] I don't recall the exact context, sir, so I wouldn't be able to say. [11:32] Okay. [11:33] Do you believe that America believes in black plunder and white democracy? [11:37] I don't believe that, sir. [11:40] You tweeted that in reference to a book you were reading at the time, apparently, The Case for Reparations. [11:46] I don't think I've ever read that book, sir. [11:48] You tweeted about it. [11:49] You said you took a day off to fully read the case for reparations. [11:54] You put that on Twitter in January of 2020. [11:57] Apologies, I don't recall that I did. [11:59] Okay. [12:00] I have no doubt that your tweet there is correct, but I don't recall that. [12:04] Okay. [12:05] Do you believe that white people inherently feel superior to other races? [12:09] I do not. [12:10] You tweeted something to that effect. [12:13] You said, I grew up feeling superior. [12:15] How white of me? [12:16] Why did you tweet that? [12:18] I think I was probably reflecting on what it was to grow up in an environment where I had lots of advantages. [12:25] It sounds like you're saying that white people feel superior. [12:28] I don't believe that anybody feels that way, sir. [12:31] I was just reflecting on my own experiences. [12:33] Do you think that white people should pay reparations? [12:36] I have never said that, sir. [12:37] Yes, you did. [12:39] You said it in January of 2020. [12:41] You tweeted, yes, the North. [12:42] Yes, all of us. [12:43] Yes, America. [12:44] Yes, our original collective sin and unpaid debt. [12:47] Yes, reparations. [12:49] Yes, on this day. [12:50] I don't believe that was a reference to fiscal reparations, sir. [12:53] What kind of reparations was it a reference to? [12:55] I think it was just a reference to the idea that we all owe much to the people who came before us. [13:00] That's a bizarre way to frame what you tweeted. [13:05] Okay, how much reparations have you personally paid? [13:09] Sir, I don't believe that I've ever paid reparations. [13:13] Okay, just for everybody else? [13:15] I'm not asking anyone to pay reparations, sir. [13:17] Seems to be what you're suggesting. [13:18] Do you believe that looting is morally wrong? [13:20] I believe that looting is illegal, and I refer to it as counterproductive. [13:24] I think it should be prosecuted. [13:25] Do you believe it's morally wrong, though? [13:27] Of course. [13:28] Of course. [13:28] Then why did you refer to it as counterproductive? [13:31] It's a very different way to describe it. [13:34] It is both morally wrong and counterproductive, as well as being illegal. [13:37] You tweeted, it's hard to be mad about protests in reference to the BLM protests not prioritizing the private property of a system of oppression. [13:47] You didn't condemn the looting. [13:48] You said that it was counterproductive. [13:51] NPR also promoted a book called In Defense of Looting. [13:55] Do you think that that's an appropriate use of taxpayer dollars? [13:58] I'm unfamiliar with that book, sir, and I don't believe that was at my time at NPR. [14:02] You tweeted that you read that book, but... [14:04] I don't believe that I did read that book, sir. [14:06] Do you think that a few years ago NPR educated America about, quote, [14:12] the whole community of genderqueer dinosaur enthusiasts, do you think that that's an appropriate use of tax dollars? [14:18] I was not at NPR at the time, sir. [14:20] That's not the question, though. [14:21] Do you think that that's an appropriate use of our tax dollars? [14:23] I think our tax dollars that we use are to be able to provide a wide range of... [14:28] I'll take that as a yes. [14:29] You do believe that that's appropriate. [14:30] Your health advisor at NPR also stated in an interview that, quote, [14:35] fear of fatness is more harmful than actual fat. [14:39] Would you like to explain how fear of fatness is more harmful than actual fat? [14:43] That's directly... [14:44] That's an editorial at NPR. [14:45] I am not familiar with the editorial, and I don't believe that was published during my time here. [14:49] It's called Diet Culture is Everywhere. [14:51] Here's how to fight it. [14:52] Do you think that that's an appropriate use of taxpayer dollars? [14:55] I think any reporting on health is an appropriate use of taxpayer dollars, yes. [14:59] And you think that editorializing that fat is not unhealthy is appropriate? [15:04] I don't know what that article is, sir, and I'm not familiar with it, so I couldn't say. [15:08] This is fake news. [15:09] Do you think that basic accommodations like doorways or seatbelts represent, quote, latent fatphobia? [15:16] I don't have an opinion. [15:18] It's also from NPR. [15:19] Do you think civility is racist? [15:21] No, sir. [15:22] No. [15:22] Your outlet ran an article entitled, quote, [15:25] when civility is used as a cudgel against people of color. [15:29] That was on All Things Considered. [15:32] Would you like to explain? [15:34] I'm not on the editorial side, sir. [15:36] I'm not familiar with that story. [15:37] You talk about how NPR is news. [15:40] This is editorialization, and I'll read it. [15:42] For many people of color in the United States, [15:44] civility isn't so much social lubricant as it is a vehicle for containing them, [15:49] preventing social mobility, and preserving the status quo. [15:53] This is garbage. [15:54] I'll spend all of my time doing everything I can to ensure you guys never get another dollar of taxpayer funding. [16:01] This is complete garbage. [16:03] Thank you, Madam Chair. [16:03] Thank you, Madam Chair. [16:04] Thank you, Madam Chair. [16:04] Thank you, Madam Chair. [16:04] Thank you, Madam Chair. [16:04] Thank you, Madam Chair. [16:05] Thank you, Madam Chair. [16:05] Thank you, Madam Chair. [16:05] Thank you, Madam Chair. [16:05] Thank you, Madam Chair. [16:05] Thank you, Madam Chair. [16:05] Thank you, Madam Chair. [16:06] Thank you, Madam Chair. [16:06] Thank you, Madam Chair. [16:07] Thank you, Madam Chair. [16:08] Thank you, Madam Chair. [16:09] Thank you, Madam Chair. [16:10] Thank you, Madam Chair. [16:11] Thank you, Madam Chair. [16:12] Thank you, Madam Chair. [16:13] Thank you, Madam Chair. [16:14] Thank you, Madam Chair. [16:15] Thank you, Madam Chair. [16:16] Thank you, Madam Chair. [16:17] Thank you, Madam Chair. [16:18] Thank you, Madam Chair. [16:19] Thank you, Madam Chair. [16:20] Thank you, Madam Chair.