NBI Dir. Atty. Matibag faces Senator-judge APC on impeachment trial Day 8

[0:00] Senator Judge Cayetano Allen is recognized for his interjections. [0:07] Before that, on the same point of Senator Bam, may I just manifest that I have submitted, [0:12] a presiding officer, Mr. Senate President, written continuing objection to the ruling on the presiding officer dated 20 July 2026 on the subpoena. [0:23] But according to the journal service, it will not be included in the journal. May I move that it be included in the records? [0:33] In the records, whatever is more convenient for everyone. [0:38] It will definitely be in the record and transcript. We will see what we can do about the journal. Can we get back to you? [0:48] Because there's a technical difficulty. [0:51] We were just under an impression until today. That's why I made the 531. Then I just put a possible supplemental. [0:58] But whatever is more convenient for the clerk of court. [1:02] The chair will entertain a motion to reconsider the approval of the journal earlier so that we can include this in the journal and then approve it. [1:10] If you would like to make that motion, Your Honor. [1:12] Well, may I move that we reconsider the approval of the journal just so that we can include what we agreed on yesterday, which is the written objection. [1:21] There is a motion to reconsider the approval of the journal of yesterday, July 2026 in order to include as part of the journal the written manifestation of Senator Judge Alan Cayetana. [1:33] As we have done so, we have done so with respect to Senator Judges Villanueva, Marcos, Go, Villar Camille, and Legarda. [1:45] Absent any objections, the motion is approved, journal is reconsidered, and the insertion of the manifestation of the Honorable Cayetano is so included, so ordered. [1:57] Thank you, dear colleagues. [2:00] Would you like to complete the process and move for the approval of the journal now? [2:03] We move the approval with the amendment, not an insertion. [2:08] The journal is approved as amended by inserting the manifestation of Senator Judge Alan Cayetana. Is there any objection? Hearing none, the same is approved, sans the reading of the same. [2:20] Mr. President, just one point. Yes, what is the pressure of Senator Judge Villanueva? [2:25] Yes, Mr. President, I just wanted to put on record that this representation is not objecting to the ruling of the chair yesterday, and that the only reason why I wanted to put into the records my manifestation with regard to the ruling of the chair, just to put on record. Thank you. [2:41] Julie noted, Senator Judge Cayetana may proceed with his interjections. He has two minutes. You may proceed, sir, when you're ready. [2:48] Good afternoon, Mr. Witness Director, attorney Matibag, schoolmate. [2:52] Good afternoon, sir, Your Honor. [2:54] Just on that point, Senator Bam, I understand as a law enforcer, as an investigator, you have to take all threats seriously. [3:06] I'll ask you the same questions I asked the two NBI officers, and I do understand they were not under your supervision during that time, [3:14] because they were still there by Director Santiago. [3:18] I won't ask all the questions, but you did review the whole video or just the portions relevant to the statement of the Vice President, no joke, no joke, [3:32] on November 23. [3:34] Your Honor, I watched the video, but you're correct. I focus mainly on the issue that is being under the issue. [3:40] So simple question. Paano naging process kung anong parts ng video at ng statement niya ang paniniwalaan mo or ng task force? [3:49] So it's not personal. I mean, if you were in the task force or as you said, you created the task force now at duty niyo yung safety ng high government officials, [3:58] anong process niyo kung anong parts ng video ang paniniwalaan niyo at hindi? [4:03] Nang statements niya, what I meant. [4:05] Well, ang ginawa po natin dyan, dun po mismo sa konteksto ng kanyang sinabi na humanap siya ng papatay, [4:13] at inutos niya na papatayin ang tatlong individual at yun po ay pumayag yung papatay, [4:21] at sinabi pa niya, no joke, dun pa lamang po ay napi na pong nakita yung pong ating hinahanap po na mga pwede niyang pananagutan po sa batas. [4:31] Well, as an appointee of this government, as a lawyer, as an NBI director, I see your point and I get that. [4:38] But what I meant is that before that statement, sabi kasi niya, kung papatayin ako, I mean, the record will bear out naman yung eksaktong sinabi niya, no? [4:46] So this is my paraphrase. But ang pagkaintindi ko sinabi niya, kung papatayin ako, eto yung tatlong papatayin mo. [4:54] And ang impression ko, pinagbibintangan niya yung tatlo na may plot against her. [5:01] So yun ang tanong ko dun sa two previews sa NBI directors. [5:04] If you're gonna believe that she contracted or talked to, may kausap, siya, [5:11] if you're gonna believe that may kausap siya at papatay yung tatlo, will you not believe the previews nung sinabi niyang, kung ako naman ang papatayin? [5:21] Hindi po ganon, sapagkat ang tinignan na nga po natin ay yung kanyang mismong pagbabanta. [5:28] At sa amin po, sa ngayon, yung aking task force na nag-iimbestiga, [5:32] ay malinaw po na ang tinitingnan kung ano na ang nangyari dahil dun sa pagbabanta. [5:37] At sinasabi nga po namin, dahil po dun sa pagbabanta, [5:41] ito po ay umabot na dun na po sa level na ang national security na tayana po na kompromiso na. [5:49] Sabagat marami na po lumalabas, tuloy-tuloy na pagbabanta. [5:53] So dun na po natin ito tinitingnan. [5:55] In the same video, she mentioned massive corruption. [5:59] Ba't wala pa dyan kasi yung may kayo speech at flood control investigation? [6:05] So, same question, Director. [6:07] Naintindihan ko, yun yung pinaniwalaan nyo. [6:09] May kausap siya, no joke, no joke. [6:11] Pero ang question ko, paano yung proseso nyo o anong naging thinking nyo na, [6:16] etong papapatay yung presidente, pinaniwalaan ko. [6:20] Pero etong siya ang papatayin, hindi ko paniniwalaan. [6:23] At etong graph and corruption, hindi ko rin paniniwalaan. [6:26] What's the process there? [6:27] Well, ang proseso po dyan, ang tinignan naman natin, dun po sa pagbabanta niya, [6:32] kung sa grave threat po yung pag-uusapan natin, [6:34] alam naman po natin na yung threat na yan is absolute. [6:38] Dahil nandun doon naman po yung elemento eh. [6:40] Doon naman po sa sinasabi namin na tuloy-tuloy na pag-iimbestiga, [6:44] dahil ito nga po ay umabot na sa level na naapekto ng national security, [6:50] we take into context yung mismong sinabi niya na meron siyang kinausap [6:54] at yung kanyang kinausap ay pumayag. [6:57] Yung po kanyang sinasabi na kung papatayin ako, [7:00] that is supposed to be na statement niya sa aming pampananaw [7:04] just took over yung kanyang pagsasabi na siya may kinausap para patayin ang ating Pangulo. [7:11] Okay, I won't argue with you yun yung proseso nyo. [7:14] But in the meantime, there were three statements. [7:16] Massive corruption, kung papatayin siya, patayin. [7:20] So, focusing dun sa patayin yung tatlo kung papatayin siya, [7:24] in the meantime, tumutuo yung massive corruption lumabas afterwards. [7:29] Diba? [7:30] So, just one other point. [7:32] At the beginning of the prosecution's questions to you, [7:36] and I think the defense had a question about what can you investigate. [7:40] Can you repeat your answer? [7:42] As the NBI director and the NBI can investigate, [7:47] did you say all crimes or yung mga crimes? [7:49] Lahat po ng mga pumapasok sa amin na mga krimen, [7:53] ay amin pong pwedeng investigahan muto proprio. [7:57] Ganon din po yung mga krimen na meron pong nagreklamo na araw-araw na may pumunta sa aming tanggapan [8:03] para magreklamo. [8:05] Ito po yung aming iniimbestigahan. [8:06] At meron din pong mga iniimbestigahan kami na inutos po ng Department of Justice. [8:11] And by the very nature under the Constitution po ng Office of the Ombudsman, [8:16] they can delegate the National Bureau of Investigation. [8:20] So, as a general rule, you can investigate any crime morto proprio? [8:24] More than the investigation of the crime is also the protection of our nationals. [8:30] Yes. [8:31] Saka po siyempre, siguraduhin na-promote na ang ating demokrasya hindi na kukompromiso. [8:36] Yes. [8:37] But sa investigation lang. [8:38] So, you can investigate any crime. [8:40] Tama po. [8:41] Yeah. [8:42] Isn't that against the Republic Act 10867? [8:46] The statute that keeps you power. [8:48] The act reorganizing and modernizing the National Bureau of Investigation. [8:53] Sabi dito sa inyong Section 4, [8:56] the NBI shall have the following powers and functions. [8:59] Undertake and investigate the detection of crimes and offenses enumerated under Section 5. [9:05] Section 5, may enumeration, human trafficking cases in all airports, [9:10] extrajudicial, extra-legal killings committed by state security forces [9:14] against media practitioners' activities, [9:16] killings of justices and judges, [9:18] violation of 10.0175, otherwise known as Cyber Crime Prevention Act, [9:24] cases against interagency graft coordinating counsel, [9:27] and violations of the anti-dummy law. [9:29] Tapos, cases involving threats, security assaults against persons [9:36] of the president, vice president, senate president, speaker of the house, chief justices. [9:41] Walang congressman, senators, unlike judges, lahat. [9:44] Transnational crimes pursuant to existing international agreements, [9:48] identification of dead victims in case of mass fatalities, [9:52] incidents caused by natural disaster, [9:54] and violation of commercial, economic, financial, white-collar crimes. [9:58] Nakajan niyong law. [9:59] So, exclusive yung enumeration. [10:02] Then, provided, however, if that the president or secretary of justice may direct the NBTI to undertake investigation of any crime when public interest so requires. [10:13] So, hindi ba limited ang pwede niyong investigahan except that ang DOJ at president ang pwede mag-atas? [10:21] That's my last question. [10:22] Yes. [10:23] Kindly wind up. [10:24] With this may answer. [10:26] Yes. [10:27] Yung pong ating listahan na yan, tama po, nandiyan dyan. [10:30] Subalit, hindi naman po sinasabi na nalilimita dyan ang aming pong pag-iimbestiga. [10:35] Sapagkat malino po ang mandato ng NBI that we are the primary investigating body. [10:40] Yun lamang nga po, merong mga kaso kung ito po ay bumagsak na sa jurisdiksyon na limbawa ng PNP na kanilang iniimbestigahan, [10:47] we can still help and coordinate at the same way na kung kami po ay nag-iimbestiga at ang PNP, pwede rin pong tumulog po sa akin. [10:54] Director, if that's your interpretation that goes against what they taught us in law school, [10:58] na pag-exclusive yung enumeration, you cannot add. [11:01] And at the end of the enumeration of Section 5, nakalagay nga dito, [11:05] However, the President and the Secretary of Justice may direct you to undertake investigations of any crime. [11:14] Why do they have to say any crime if you can do it any crime, if you can investigate any crime after all? [11:21] It seems that you're expanding your jurisdiction by yourself. [11:26] Well, we've been doing that because we have also our primary role to make sure that law and order is being promoted through the NBI. [11:35] Thank you. [11:36] Senator Kaye Tano can avail of the second round later or tomorrow since I believe Attorney Matibag, [11:42] Director Matibag, forgive me, will still be here for the continuation of Cross. [11:47] Thank you. [11:48] Thank you.