Michigan Senate democratic primary debate

[0:22] good tuesday evening everybody live from the hill studios in washington dc this is the hills [0:27] decision desk 26 data nerds it's another tuesday night in america but we are not counting votes [0:33] ladies and gentlemen no no we are listening closely to arguments because it is debate night [0:37] in the great state of michigan what was going to be a three-person debate now turns to just two [0:43] hailey stevens dr abdul sayed both squaring off tonight for a chance to take on mike rogers come [0:49] the general election in november this debate going down in grand rapids michigan at wood tv 8 studios [0:55] there want to uh bring in rick albin a political reporter at wood tv 8 he has a bit of a preview [1:00] of what we might see tonight here at wood tv are very excited to be hosting not one but two debates [1:07] in grand rapids this week the first is tuesday night and will feature two democrats vying for [1:13] their party's nomination for the open u.s senate seat left vacant by the retirement of senator gary [1:18] peters a democrat who has served two terms dr abdul el sayed and congresswoman haley stevens will answer [1:25] questions about the economy national security and the state of the nation as we head into an election [1:31] cycle that will determine which party will control the nation's upper chamber the democrat who wins [1:37] the august primary will face republican mike rogers who narrowly lost another open senate seat to alissa [1:43] slotkin two years ago a republican has not won a u.s senate seat for michigan since 1994 [1:50] democrats want to keep that streak alive while republicans will be doing everything they can to [1:56] reverse the pattern the race on the democratic side will offer a choice between an establishment [2:02] endorsed candidate in stevens who has been backed by former u.s senator debbie stabenow and former [2:07] governor jennifer grandel and el sayed who counts among his supporters as senator bernie sanders and [2:14] congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez the race will be about control of the senate yes but it will [2:21] also give some indication of the direction of the democratic party and where it may move going forward [2:26] from ai to data centers and auto manufacturing there's a lot to talk about and we'll get to all of [2:32] it as we begin debate week in michigan our second debate will be thursday with republican candidates [2:39] running for their party's nomination for governor i'm rick albin all right now that we have been primed [2:47] on what we can expect tonight uh we are ready to hear a debate things start at seven o'clock so you're [2:52] with us for about another half hour i want to go ahead and bring in uh our friend chris steierwald [2:56] host of the hill sunday co-host of whole hog politics as well at the hill uh chris good evening [3:03] to you my friend also joined by caroline vakil here in studio uh we've had a lot of movement in this [3:09] uh primary chris just this week that's why i want to start how do the dynamics change now that this [3:15] debate is a one-on-one and not a one-on-one-on-one with mallory mcmurro out assumption is that mallory [3:26] mcmurro's vote will go more to el sayed than it would have to stephen's uh i think that's [3:32] undisputable just given the fact that she had positioned herself sort of between the two but [3:38] certainly to the left of stevens um stevens is is bound to have to try to make an electability [3:46] argument and what we know about primary electorates they hate electability arguments right so if you [3:52] say to voters i know i'm not the one that you like best but you have to choose me in order to win [3:58] in november that doesn't get that does not warm the cockles of anybody's heart janet mills in maine [4:04] uh the the graham platner debacle uh could be explained by many things but one thing that does [4:12] explain it is that janet mills made an electability argument uh to uh main primary voters and people say [4:20] no we want to feel the feels so uh this is it's it's a it's a tight crack for stevens um she's got [4:28] to find a way if she's going to make an electability argument to look like the more electable candidate [4:35] how does she make that argument uh given that she is uh the establishment and it doesn't seem within at [4:41] least the democratic party right now there is a hunger for the establishment because look if you look at [4:46] her policies if you look at some of the bills that she's she sponsored signed on to supported [4:50] she's as progressive uh as a lot of folks out there um does abdul sayed go at her because she [4:57] is establishment or does he try to say look i am more to the left and thus more in line with where [5:02] the party is right now even in a state like michigan i think he'll i think he won't just but i think [5:09] what you'll hear a lot from him is she's bought and paid for she's a tool of corporate interest she's [5:14] a tool of israel she's a tool of apac uh israel will be a huge flashpoint in this uh in this debate i [5:22] assume certainly in this election it has been if you go to ann arbor if you go to uh lansing [5:30] what do you what are you going to see you're going to see a lot of younger voters who are [5:34] staunchly anti-israel in michigan it's more potent in the democratic electorate because there's [5:39] a large arab american population in suburban detroit if you go to dearborn you go wherever you're going [5:45] to see big numbers a couple hundred thousand largest arab american population uh in any american [5:52] state so these are voters who are deeply suspicious uh about zionism deeply suspicious of israel there has [6:01] been uh some uglier stuff from that side but that's a flashpoint that el sayed can use to his advantage to [6:09] alienate those voters from stephen she has to hope that she can get him on the graham platner question [6:18] uh if you are think about uh michigan democrats in a few categories you have hardcore progressives [6:26] you have or hardcore anti-israel on one side that these are the people that are el sayed's natural [6:32] constituency and then you have some moderate suburban mainstreamy kind of establishment democrats and [6:40] then you have a bunch of people who just basically want to win and they want to feel good about winning [6:45] haley stevens has to convince those voters that el sayed risks a platner situation in michigan there are [6:53] no allegations of anything like what has been alleged against graham platner but there is the specter of [7:00] you go with a firebrand candidate you go with a disruptive candidate what if you find yourself in [7:06] the general election uh with uh with with a bad bargain a bum steer that's the that's the message [7:13] that he that's uh stevens has to make and the way that she makes it is by trying to keep the pressure on [7:17] him about graham platner uh i don't know what el sayed has said recently but certainly this morning [7:25] his responses on platner were insufficient yeah he he did uh come off not as forceful as some of his [7:32] other uh colleagues uh within the progressive movement um like the bernie sanders who have said [7:38] platner needs to step aside um in terms of abdul sayed al sayed the kitchen table issues that matter so [7:45] much in a state like michigan like all states but certainly in michigan that really make a difference [7:50] does he have to sort of lay out some sort of plan or some sort of line of attack or approach if he [7:56] were elected to congress to get affordability uh done bring down home prices grant gas prices [8:03] utility prices how does he hit the kitchen table message when we do know that he does want to focus [8:09] on the aipac side of things and and anti that anti-establishment event i think the the the problem [8:18] of our political system uh as currently constituted is that's not what wins your primaries right you're [8:25] a hundred percent right in a general election what do you want to be talking about if you are [8:31] uh the democratic nominee in michigan you want to talk about corrupt donald trump corruption you want [8:35] to talk about the high price of everything and you want to repeat repeat repeat repeat a john ossoff [8:42] kind of campaign uh that focuses on the problems inside the trump administration the uh what was it [8:50] 1.6 billion dollar what whatever the astonishing sum of money that the president made in his first term [8:56] or the first year of his second term you want to talk about that and you want to talk about how [9:00] expensive everything is and how uncertain the economy feels those are good general election talking points [9:06] that can deliver a bunch of wins for democrats in a bunch of different places but i don't know that [9:11] that's what uh the democratic to your point i don't think that's what the democratic primary electorate [9:17] in michigan certainly it wasn't the case in colorado last week right uh even being staunchly [9:23] anti-trump even a relentless focus on economic core economic issues that's not what primary voters [9:31] in denver were thinking about when they ousted uh the jet after 30 years so stevens is sort of a [9:39] uh a young old person she has the backing of the democratic establishment broadly which has kept [9:47] her in the race but of course that's this liability in a party that's going through its [9:52] own tea party moment all right chris we'll have to leave it there my friend thank you so much for [9:56] your time and insight enjoy the debate uh surely going to be uh spicy but also hopefully very [10:01] informative so thank you very much all right let's uh bring caroline the keel and she is here with [10:06] me uh in studio uh carolina actually the same thing i asked chris uh how have the dynamics changed in [10:11] this race because it was almost measuring up and i use measure from the standpoint of if you look at [10:16] these three candidates it's sort of a small medium and large progressivism right uh where you have [10:21] abdul sayed on one end of the spectrum uh and hayley stevens on the other mallory murrow and maybe [10:28] leaning towards either way um but how have the dynamics changed how has the strategy changed uh now that [10:33] this is just a two-person race i think it's definitely solidified it into a proxy battle [10:38] between centrists and moderates who are backing hayley stevens and the progressive populist sort [10:44] of insurgent faction that is backing abdul el-sayed so it's made that choice a lot clearer for voters [10:51] mallory mcmorrow as you mentioned was trying to occupy both try to be sort of a middle-of-the-road candidate [10:56] obviously she uh wasn't able to sort of garner that interest and support and energy so now the voters [11:02] have a sort of clear choice uh ahead of them you know and it's going to be interesting to see how [11:07] that plays out tonight in the debate um put your uh moderator hat on uh you heard chris mention it [11:14] there how early or let me start there do you ask any grand platinum questions at all if you're the [11:19] moderator tonight um that's a great question um i mean you know it's clear that some of these candidates [11:28] have already come out and spoken about it i was just looking at abdul el-sayed's uh you know acts uh [11:35] social media he had to do a little bit of cleanup just to read some of the posts he had one from [11:41] yesterday quote credible allegations of sexual assault cannot be ignored voters in maine deserve [11:46] a choice for u.s senate that doesn't force them to make a moral compromise between sexual violence [11:51] or corporate servitude and then you had some posts later today uh that essentially said one of them [11:59] says uh quote like i said last night graham platner needs to step aside uh you know i think you're [12:05] seeing at least one of these candidates struggling with this question obviously senate republicans are [12:10] going to be hammering on that uh so it might be a good idea for them to you know just offer a platform [12:16] you know what do you have to say for graham platner uh and his campaign right now do you think he should [12:21] drop out uh this will be an easy attack line i think for hailey stevens uh given this might be more [12:26] of a vulnerability right now for el-sayed do you think she even goes as far as saying i mean she [12:31] i'm not i'm sure she's not going to accuse dr abdul el-sayed of anything but tying him to platinum [12:36] from the standpoint of he's an unknown quantity uh and this race is too important for something [12:43] to come out a little bit later maybe that offers a bit of a counterbalance to the criticism that he has [12:48] leveled at her for aipac and and ties to israel and things like that yeah i mean i absolutely think [12:53] that could be a line of attack that the congresswoman uses that he is to your point a political unknown [12:59] i mean he ran for governor in 2018 lost to gretchen whitmer uh in that primary and do we want to go [13:06] with someone who's you know quote unquote far left progressive insurgent um that's sort of the [13:12] grappling of this whole party right now is the the difference between do we go with someone who's safe [13:17] or do we go with someone who's going to energize the base and the party has yet to answer that [13:22] question you know years in election cycles later um chris mentioned uh hayley stevens is establishment [13:29] quote unquote but she's young uh establishment she can't get saddled uh with the age uh issue that so [13:35] many establishment democrats have been um we are in this sort of anti-incumbent environment in the [13:41] democratic party what does hayley stevens have to do tonight be it pointing to her congressional record [13:47] or her own ideology to say look i can be just as progressive as my opponent well you've sort of [13:53] seen her it's interesting she has made the electability argument which as chris has noted is [13:58] obviously a tougher sell for primary voters uh but she's she's tapping into this if you want to win [14:05] in a pivotal battleground state i'm your gal uh she's also pointed to areas where she's been bipartisan [14:11] uh the chips acts for example her work on that um you know in terms of where she's going to really [14:17] rub up her base that's sort of the key question i will say though while she is not sort of seen as [14:23] maybe a traditional establishment democrat and that she's not 50 60 70 years old who's been in the house [14:30] forever she has been in the house for a while now uh and she uh you know senate minority leader uh [14:36] chuck shimmer is rumored to be backing her uh she has the backing of some major establishment uh lobbying [14:43] groups uh or i should at least say at least one the pro-israel apex super pack so in a way it is a [14:50] little hard to say that she's not totally establishment um although she has a younger face for the senate [14:55] compared to other candidates that have been uh put up in these contests so to me that's sort of her [15:02] question how does she excite her base because abdul el sayed has kind of tapped into that in a way that [15:07] i think she struggled to all right carolina stay put want to go ahead and bring in jessica taylor and [15:13] jeffrey skelly so we can have a little bit of fun with them tonight uh jessica i know this is a race [15:18] that you have been watching closely what do you expect tonight and are you sort of like me a little [15:23] bummed out that mcmurro's not gonna be there because you know three is always better than two sometimes [15:28] i mean this was a fascinating race i think in part because there were three candidates but i think [15:33] mcmurro just showed us that you can either be somewhere in the middle or you can be in the far [15:38] left that she tried to sort of i think be the goldilocks candidate and there really wasn't a lane [15:42] for that i expect fireworks actually the stevens campaign has really been leaning hard into the [15:47] electability argument he also made a comment to semaphore last week about her saying i mean listen [15:55] stevens has been criticized for being awkward on the trail she's not the most gifted politician but [16:00] said she has trouble stringing two sentences together they've really leaned into that i think [16:05] that you can expect stevens to bring that up you know sort of uh a misogynistic comment many read it [16:12] as so i think that um you know abdul al-sayed is going to i think push back very hard on the on israel [16:17] and on apac and on her backing from schumer so i think these are pretty you know there's pretty [16:23] clear-cut lanes now that mcmurro isn't there and of course you know just watching to see in polling [16:30] after the debate um i'm i'm watching to see sort of where those mcmurro supporters go because i do [16:35] think i heard i heard chris talking earlier i i do think some of them will gravitate toward al-sayed [16:40] because they um because they wanted sort of more of an anti-establishment message but i wouldn't i [16:47] wouldn't discount some of them going to stevens as well they share a base in critical oakland county [16:53] and stevens i you know she she does well with black voters she's been pounding the black churches and [16:59] different things so you know the electability argument may not be um you know one that catches [17:05] on but i think that she's sort of been putting in some of the work that i wouldn't discount by among [17:11] reliable democratic primary voters uh jeffrey what are the numbers telling you man what are you what are [17:16] you seeing in this race especially since uh mcmurro dropped out and we had maybe a bit of a swing [17:22] um in in support one one way or the other what are the numbers tell you well we don't have really [17:28] any public polling uh that that we've seen yet uh that that lays out um unless something has come [17:35] out today that i missed while i was working on a bunch of uh client decks for some stuff uh but i i [17:40] did see basically we have el sayed ahead of hayley stevens in the in the polling that was up to the [17:46] point where mcmurro dropped out um mcmurro as jessica was saying was was squeezed out uh you know it [17:52] ended up being a two-lane road and she was trying to find a third lane up the middle and it just did [17:56] not work uh and so i think i'm not not to just repeat what jessica was saying but you know you [18:03] are i do think that the the big question of this race will actually be black voters because if there [18:09] is relatively high black turnout in the in the primary i think that's probably good news for stevens [18:15] and i and i say that because uh the the electorate and primaries does tend to be older and so i think [18:21] if you're thinking about wayne county and detroit proper and if you're hayley stevens and you need to [18:27] deal with the fact that el sayed is probably going to crush in washington and like you know ann arbor and [18:32] and areas like that and lansing uh then east lansing you need to uh have an antidote for that [18:38] and that might be voters in detroit interesting interesting caroline when we look at um the sort [18:46] of national debate over you know how how left the democratic party uh should go is there any [18:54] not danger necessarily but it does the stevens have to sort of walk that fine line and and let people [18:59] know yes i am progressive but i also am pragmatic and does that can that sell in a in a primary to [19:06] chris's point uh where you would certainly expect a message like that to resonate in a in a general [19:12] election um well i i do think going back to you know some of the points that we've we've made already [19:18] i think the electability argument again is going to be sort of a tough sell but to jessica's point [19:22] on the green um on the ground operations is going to be critical obviously because black voters are [19:28] obviously going to be a key democratic voting bloc here um and at the same time abdoyal el-seed is going [19:34] to be you know tapping into other voting blocs that maybe previously were uh not as awakened i [19:40] guess as you might say in 2024 arab muslim voters for example uh the same sort of voters who vote [19:47] uncommitted for biden so they're they're having to tap into all of that i'd say i think for hayley [19:53] stevens too i think that you know a lot of this is also going to come down to how well the outside money [19:59] game uh works out i mean there's been a lot of outside money that has been spending in support [20:03] of her and so i'm also sort of curious to see in some ways how much that will end up actually [20:08] influencing the race um you know if you're calling yourself bipartisan and you know saying that you're [20:13] going to work across the aisle uh saying that you are a quote-unquote manufacturing geek uh you [20:18] know i'm also going to be watching to see uh whether or not you put that uh you know money uh on air [20:24] in advertising as well it's another sort of key way to test whether or not campaign see this as [20:29] a winning message to run on uh jessica i asked caroline this question if you're the moderator of [20:34] this debate do you bring up the grand platner situation uh and if so when it's it's national [20:40] news right now it's out front it's a it's a trending topic if you will um but do michigan voters [20:46] really care what's going on in the main senate race i think that given grand platner sharing [20:51] consultants i would be surprised if it doesn't come up i mean even if the moderator doesn't bring [20:55] it up i expect stevens to try to tie it in there at some point um and you know as i heard you all [21:01] saying earlier as well i think that you know his initial response was lukewarm um especially compared [21:07] to some of the more declarative statements that we saw out of other senate candidates and other [21:11] democrats you know he is i think clarified that today but i you know even again it could if if it [21:19] happens like if the moderator asks i expect it to be at the top because that's sort of when you get [21:23] into the newsier parts um of things but i mean this is a maine's that these are all critical senate [21:30] races in the battle for control and so if control is on the line i think that maine matters as well as [21:36] as michigan all of these senate races are you know because again this is a seat that democrats are [21:41] defending and so if they lose this one they've got to find additional seats um maine is one of those but [21:47] if maine's off the table you lose michigan you're suddenly you know down one you've lost a critical [21:52] target it's the the math is is all there so maybe they don't get into the granular but again i would [21:59] be really surprised if stevens does not make this an attack line jeffrey chris gave us a little bit of a [22:06] lay of the the land there in michigan but can you give us just a bit of a breakdown on [22:11] what counties are going to matter uh come this democratic primary to carolina's point where could [22:17] maybe we see uh some demographic uh trends emerge that we maybe didn't see back in 24 or 22. well i [22:25] think some of the trends that you you would see or would have seen in 2024 uh will will pop up again [22:31] although in the in the context of a primary uh on the democratic side in early august i mean a lot [22:38] will matter about what wayne county does which is home to detroit and uh quite a few you know it's [22:43] the biggest county most populous place in the state and and very blue on the whole uh a place [22:49] like washtenaw where ann arbor is college uh college town um but pretty well populated in the [22:55] sort of out just outside of sort of metro detroit um it's it's kind of its own thing but it's pretty [23:01] close to detroit uh but it will almost certainly go for el sayed and i think the margins there of [23:05] course will will matter a great deal uh you know land the lansing area uh will be important of course [23:12] uh and then also you know i think it is worth remembering that uh in some you know there's [23:17] there's kent county um which is grand rapids which has gotten bluer uh that might be a place where sort [23:23] of uh a new form of democratic politics uh might be attractive which makes me think someone like el [23:29] sayed might be attractive to them um although it is represented by hillary schulton who's a you know [23:35] relatively center-left uh democrat uh and someone else who i think was even briefly mentioned as a [23:41] potential candidate in this race uh even though she did not get in the end so i mean there there are a [23:46] lot of democratic votes around the state detroit's the most important part but uh you also have you [23:51] know the detroit suburbs and so it's it's uh it could be an extremely fascinating map uh at the end of [23:57] the day i i did also want to mention real quickly you know we talked about sort of the the ad spending [24:02] situation and i i brought up some numbers from ad impact here uh you know haley stevens has gotten [24:08] immense amount of outside support already and most much of that has been from the united democracy [24:12] project which is apex super pack and to the point about the grand platner conversation you know one of [24:18] the ads that united democracy project just released maybe ties into this a little bit where they they [24:23] basically try to make the case that that el sayed has been sort of disrespectful or [24:27] demeaning to women um so i do think that you know to jessica's point haley stevens will definitely be [24:33] uh trying to work this in somehow um even if there isn't any coordination it's pretty obvious what [24:39] they're thinking about yeah carol i was gonna ask that question how has the the apac and israel [24:45] issue sort of evolved over the course of this race and how is this specific race sort of set in [24:50] the national conversation about uh the israel lobby here in america sure i mean it's definitely [24:55] become a focal point and again clear division lines between stevens and el sayed el sayed is against [25:03] uh you know giving additional aid to israel um in a recent interview on cnn he uh dodged a couple [25:10] questions about whether or not he believed that israel as a state had a right to exist um and uh has [25:16] you know told the fact that he is not backed by apac and has called what's going on in gaza a genocide [25:22] flip the script over to haley stevens she is not using the term genocide she is proudly you know [25:30] backed by apac she uh just filmed a video for them in march um and so you know she's seen she's [25:39] positioning herself as an ally to israel i do also think that to your point about the question of the [25:45] national broader you know what does this mean here michigan is also really interesting in that two [25:50] years ago it was this you know home of the uncommitted movement and i think that it's sort [25:56] of a big deal in some ways because you do have this um you know a middle eastern uh senate candidate [26:03] who might be the nominee at a time when you're seeing um frustration from progressives and the [26:09] middle eastern community arabs muslims in michigan over uh you know the biden administration's handling [26:16] over the war in gaza trump administration's handling over the war in gaza but at the same time you're [26:21] also having that juxtaposition with uh jewish voters who are really concerned and democrats writ large [26:26] about anti-semitism um who are you know worried about these attacks at synagogues and so you're [26:32] seeing this push and pull that's playing out in michigan um both in 2024 and obviously now in the [26:38] senate race jessica what are you seeing out there um when it comes to the question of israel and gaza and [26:44] money from apac having influence on this race yeah i mean caroline's right there are very clear [26:49] lines of delineation on this issue and i mean i think that apac has been demonized on the left and [26:56] this would be a major victory for them if they get hayley stevens who's been a staunch ally across the [27:00] finish line but i don't think that's the way that we are seeing democratic primary voters move [27:05] but el sayad has certainly come under um attack for um for for things you know not being [27:13] questioning israel and different things that i think will also make it in into attack lines i mean [27:18] i think that you know one person said to me listen if you if if apac is an issue for you you're probably [27:24] already not voting for hayley stevens she did not in her last debate which was at the mackinac policy [27:28] conference she did not have a good answer at all for the apac defense and so that's another thing i'm [27:33] looking for tonight she needs to have a better answer for that certainly so that's that's a key [27:38] question i'm looking at because she knows that attack is coming she knew it was coming before [27:42] so i think that you know she needs to have a better answer that is more palatable to the democratic base [27:48] while you can you know supporting supporting both or or or something but you know this is a this is a [27:54] fault line that we are seeing in a lot of primaries and congressional primaries but the difference is [27:59] this is not a michigan is not you know the upper east side of new york or in manhattan or denver [28:06] even you know this is a swing state and so that is why national republicans would much rather run [28:11] against el sayed and why you see hayley stevens i think correctly making the um electability argument [28:17] that she would be the safer candidate um i to run against the republican mike rogers who came you know just [28:24] about 19 000 votes short last time now that was a very different environment in a presidential cycle [28:29] but he is he is a good candidate he's raising better money this time around so this is this is [28:34] not a seat that democrats can take for granted by any means uh jeffrey um we have about two minutes [28:40] left before we uh toss it over to our friends at wood tv8 there in grand rapids they are moderating [28:44] uh this debate tonight uh what are you looking for uh tonight uh does hayley stevens have to go out [28:49] and win this or is this uh abdul el sayed just can't lose this debate in your mind well i i think [28:55] for hayley stevens uh you know to jessica's point earlier she is sometimes struggled uh on the stump [29:01] sometimes struggled uh when communicating so she could take advantage of this opportunity i think [29:05] to get a few sort of sound bites of her hitting el sayed in a way that comes across as you know [29:11] stringing more than two sentences together uh that will you know i think she'll be able to trumpet that [29:16] and to to jessica's point as well having some answers i think it's also worth noting [29:21] you know if i'm el sayed i i know that you don't want to talk about electability but you could if [29:26] i'm el sayed i would note that the polling's been really inconsistent in general election polling so [29:31] far uh in terms of who would be the better candidate against mike rogers um now is that because some [29:36] progressives are saying they're not going to support hayley stevens uh and that if hayley stevens is the [29:40] candidate she might lose some of them but went over a few more suburbanites and then be a better [29:44] candidate the general election i think there's a lot you can debate on but if i'm el sayed i might want to [29:48] you know have a line or two and they're countering uh the the idea that that she is more electable [29:52] uh and make it not just about a turnout conversation yeah i would just add to some of those polls have [29:57] had some questionable methodology that as well um so you know i i am looking for some more you know [30:05] some better methodology and polling coming out of michigan new york times please please pull there [30:09] yes all right all right we we uh are certainly uh hoping to get some numbers uh once this debate [30:16] uh finally uh comes uh down tonight seven o'clock grand rapids uh michigan uh we're just waiting for [30:23] things to get started there at a wood tv eight studios uh i'm told we are good to go so let's [30:28] go ahead and watch the michigan democratic primary debate now they're good [30:35] i always like it when we agree obvious corruption what is going to happen to check that somebody [30:52] that's going to serve our local community like gerald board did i want roads fixed working for [30:57] things that are positive for michigan tonight night one of debate week an open u.s senate seat [31:04] two candidates two visions for michigan abdul el sayed there really is an opportunity to either pick [31:11] politics as usual or politics is different people desperately want politics is different right [31:15] now u.s representative haley stevens i see this as a made in michigan moment and we have a story to [31:21] tell and we need a champion in the united states senate who earns the chance to carry the democratic [31:27] banner into one of the most consequential senate races in the country the choice is yours live from [31:34] the wood tv studios in grand rapids and your local election headquarters this is night one [31:41] of debate week in michigan democratic senate primary good evening i'm rick albin your moderator for [31:49] tonight's debate along with amber kriska who will be here with viewer questions candidates welcome to [31:54] you and welcome to viewers across the state watching here on wood tv our sister station wlns in lansing [32:02] and partners in detroit marquette alpina traverse city and flint this truly is debate week in michigan [32:09] here's a quick review of the rules each question goes to each candidate for a 60 second response [32:15] in an order determined by a drawing earlier in this process a 30 second rebuttal will follow [32:20] after each candidate has given their initial response the only possible change to that would [32:25] be for the final question depending on how much time is left in the program we may eliminate the [32:31] rebuttal or adjust the length of time to answer the question there is no opening statement there will be a [32:37] 60 second closing it is time for our first question in debate week in michigan again welcome to both of [32:46] you the first question will go to you sir the number one issue facing people from coast to coast and right [32:52] here in michigan is no surprise it's inflation it's affordability everything costs too much you can't [32:59] fix it all but if you're elected to the u.s senate tell me one proactive thing you would do to make [33:05] michiganders lives more affordable 60 seconds sir i've been up and down my state 110 different cities [33:12] 450 public events no matter where i go people say the same thing i just can't afford to live here [33:16] anymore i'm so worried about the price of groceries i can't afford my gas it's five bucks i'm worried [33:22] about getting sick because i can't afford my deductible there's a number of things we need to [33:25] do number one we need to tackle health care by guaranteeing everybody health care without a [33:29] deductible a premium or a copay through medicare for all number two we need to stand up to the monopolies and [33:34] oligopolies that are picking our pockets number three we need to stand up to increase wages and [33:39] that means standing with unions like the uaw and the nurses who've endorsed us it means making sure [33:44] that we are standing with michiganders in their moments of crisis by making schools somewhere that [33:49] our kids can go by addressing the potholes that cause punctured tires every time you try to drive [33:55] anywhere but all of this has to happen by way of getting the corruption out of our politics so long as [34:00] corporations are buying politicians we can't actually enact these solutions because they're getting the [34:04] policies that they signed up for when they pay for their politicians congresswoman steven 60 seconds [34:11] well thank you so much wood tv and to everyone across michigan tuning in tonight as your next [34:17] united states senator i will run through anyone in anything to lower costs my no tariff on groceries bill [34:26] my bill to lower your utility bill look i'm the only person running for united states senate in michigan [34:34] who is not a millionaire i am not trying to sell a book or a podcast i'm the only one on this stage [34:40] who doesn't have a talent agent trying to pitch me for paid speeches and unlike my opponent i'm not [34:46] running at the first mic or camera i see instead my head is down doing the work for the people of michigan [34:55] who need the work to be done we do not need a celebrity senator we need a workhorse and as the [35:03] most effective lawmaker for michigan in the house of representatives if you want a fighter and an [35:09] effective leader for our state that's me sorry we also don't need politicians bought off by corporations [35:17] in this race you've probably seen ad after ad after ad not one of those ads was brought to you [35:21] by the congresswoman's campaign all of them brought to you by corporate packs and apac trying to buy a [35:25] politician who's going to do their bidding instead of yours that's been the story of our politics for [35:30] far too long the question is not whether or not you're a millionaire the question is whether or not [35:33] you are bowing down to billionaires and for too long in our politics we've watched politicians beg for [35:38] those dollars only to do that bidding when they actually get to office that has been the story of my [35:42] opponent if you want politics is different i'm the only one who's never taken a dime from a corporation [35:46] congresswoman 30 seconds well look transparency is oh so important and this is why i have released [35:53] my tax returns my opponent abdul he said that transparency is key but yet he hasn't released [36:00] his tax returns abdul you talk about getting money out of politics and putting money in people's pockets [36:07] but who is putting money in yours what are you hiding moving to our next question it'll be first to you [36:15] congresswoman with a 60-second response the trump administration had been negotiating an agreement [36:20] to end the conflict in iran but within the last hour we are told that the united states military [36:25] has launched a series of what they call powerful strikes after commercial ships were struck in the [36:32] strait of hormuz the question is what should our policy be going forward with iran 60 seconds well our [36:40] next united states senator has one mission and one mission only and that is to fight for the people [36:46] of michigan and represent the people of michigan's interest donald trump selling us out to this war in [36:52] iran that no one asked for that is raising costs for every michigander is totally unacceptable but here's [37:01] the deal in terms of the goal that i have long fought for and pushed for in the united states house [37:08] of representatives and what i will work for in the united states senate we need long-term peace [37:13] donald trump has failed us the prime minister of israel has failed in that regard and he was just [37:19] coming after me on this today look i am unafraid michigan you are my north star and no illegal wars [37:27] no unilateral wars at our expense 60 seconds i think it's worth asking why we got into this war in [37:33] the first place there is one man who's been wanting this war fought and that is the prime minister of [37:37] israel and the reason that we've seen this war fought is because the impact of apac in our politics [37:43] apac has spent tens of millions of dollars in attack ads against me or ads lying about the congresswoman's [37:49] record they clearly want one individual and it's not me and ask yourself why it is that we are paying [37:55] five dollar gas why it is we can't seem to get out of this quagmire it's because for too long our foreign [37:59] policy has been handed to us by the likes of the state of israel and apac who has made sure that [38:05] democrats and republicans are doing their bidding i don't take that money they are spending against [38:09] me because they've called me the most dangerous candidate for the us-israel relationship because [38:12] maybe i don't want to waste our money fighting wars we don't need to spend and instead i want that spent [38:17] here to rebuild our schools here to make sure we have functional infrastructure here in michigan to [38:21] make sure that we have health care here in michigan and so long as our politicians continue to be [38:25] bought off by apac do not be surprised when we fight wars that are in their best interest to [38:29] annex israel italics lebanon or to do genocide in gaza congressman 30 seconds well abdul i would [38:35] say no one is afraid of you and in fact the gop is spending thousands of dollars to prop up your [38:41] campaign because they think it they will make it easier for mike rogers to win if you are the nominee [38:47] i do not plan to make anything easier for republicans or mike rogers what i do is i take on tough fights [38:54] for michigan tough races and i win for us 30 seconds to wrap up this question well you know [39:01] if congresswoman stevens makes it or mike rogers wins either way israel will win apac is perfectly [39:07] fine with either of my two opponents because they know that they will have a comfortable reliable vote [39:12] in the u.s senate if you want politics to work for you if you want politics to rebuild your schools [39:16] or fix your infrastructure or to invest in your health care you have an alternative choice we're running [39:21] you get money out of politics put money in your pocket and pass medicare for all there's a reason [39:24] that both chuck schumer and donald trump don't want to see me on the inside of the u.s senate [39:28] because i'm a threat to politics as usual moving on but staying in the middle east despite a ceasefire [39:34] the humanitarian crisis in gaza continues and israel maintains that eliminating hamas remains [39:40] essential to its security what if any is the role of the united states in trying to resolve [39:47] this long-standing impasse 60 seconds sir i'll tell you this for a long time every president has [39:53] said that they believe in a two-state solution the problem of course is that our policy has been to [39:59] subsidize the israeli military to the tune of billions of your tax dollars every single year [40:04] and their goal is to foreclose on the possibility of a palestinian state i believe in international [40:09] law i believe we have to hold every country to international law which means to me that we need [40:13] to stop funding the israeli military and unilateral blank checks that also includes egypt that [40:18] includes saudi arabia i also believe that we cannot continue to sell weapons to a country that is [40:22] doing human rights abuses genocide and apartheid i also believe that we need to stop running cover [40:27] for what has become a rogue state that is now trying to annex southern lebanon and i also believe [40:32] that your money needs to be spent here because at the end of the day the ultimate losers are you [40:36] and me the taxpayers who paid that money to provide good infrastructure build schools provide [40:41] health care for our own kids not to watch it get sent to buy bombs and tanks that end up annihilating [40:46] other people and their children congressman 60 seconds the goal has to be long-term peace and this [40:54] is what i have longed work for i stood alongside families who had relatives taken hostage by hamas and [41:02] i called for a permanent ceasefire the difference between my opponent and myself on this issue is that i [41:09] believe in a two-state solution i can say that israel has a right to peacefully exist alongside the [41:16] people of palestine and in gaza it is very clear that mr netanyahu has not made us safer has not brought [41:26] us closer to peace and he's endangered jews here in america and around the world this is why he was [41:33] just trashing me today on cnn i am not afraid of bullies i am not afraid to stand up and i continue [41:41] to stand up for humanitarian aid for the u.s to work with the countries in the region and get aid into [41:48] gaza 30 seconds look i believe in equal rights to peace dignity and self-determination for uh palestinians [41:55] and jewish israelis alike but the question i think the congressman needs to answer is why has she allowed [42:01] 40 million dollars of outside spending the bulk of it coming from apac to come into this race i don't [42:06] think benjamin netanyahu is attacking her to actually attack her i think he's attacking her to try and [42:11] steer away the stink of how staunchly she stands for their policy so let's take that opportunity [42:17] explain what you've given away for apac support in this race 30 seconds to wrap up no one owns my vote [42:25] and no one owns my policies anyone who is contributing to my senate campaign is doing so because [42:31] of my proven record of fighting for michigan what i did when i served as chief of staff on the u.s [42:37] auto rescue saving 200 000 michigan jobs and what i have done uh to get the chips and science act [42:45] passed and signed into law what my opponent needs to answer is why is the gop spending thousands of [42:51] dollars to prop up his campaign saying that he will make mike rogers the next u.s senator all right [42:57] we're going to move on as i told you before we started we have a lot of viewer questions amber [43:02] is my colleague and she will be presenting those you'll be able to see them there you'll be able [43:06] to hear them in the studio if for any reason they are not clear let me know and i will repeat them [43:10] here is amber with our first viewer question a lot of questions on this next topic bipartisanship [43:18] this is from mark newman in the spirit of bipartisanship talk specifically about how you [43:23] will reach across the aisle name a particular project that you will champion that will require [43:29] working with the opposing party congresswoman 60 seconds well i don't have to just talk about what [43:35] i would do i can certainly talk about what i have done in terms of passing bipartisan legislation like [43:42] the chips and science act but to answer our viewers question very specifically i have a plan [43:48] to lessen michigan and the united states dependence on china to lower cost and to create those good [43:55] manufacturing jobs that is day one legislation for me in the united states senate and look there is a [44:02] reason why the center for effective lawmaking recognized me as the most effective lawmaker for [44:07] michigan in the congress because i fight for us i win for us debbie stabenow has endorsed my campaign [44:15] our attorney general dana nestle has endorsed me for united states senate because of their fight for [44:21] michigan and their results for michigan and them seeing the same in me and so yes when we talk about [44:27] manufacturing when i bring in my uh my supply chain bill to the floor i feel really excited about [44:33] getting other colleagues on on on the republican side to join me thank you move on dr lc i had 60 seconds [44:40] i'm proud to have been endorsed by the uaw and the reason that they've endorsed me is because they [44:45] understand that i am a fighter for working people i can tell you that there is bipartisan support [44:49] already to blow up the us mca which has been a cancer on our manufacturing industry in michigan [44:55] and the industrial midwest in general that is a bill of course that my colleague actually voted [45:00] for and i think there's bipartisan consensus that that has been a danger we have an opportunity [45:04] to rethink trade policy to make sure that we're protecting good union jobs in this state and in [45:09] this country and i think that means rethinking how we do tariffs now donald trump's version of [45:14] tariffs is like chemotherapy but you give the patient all the chemo at the same time i think [45:18] there's an opportunity where you pace it out you think critically about how you protect critical [45:22] budding manufacturing industry and that you are transparent with your trading partners about how [45:27] you do this in an effort to build long-term sustainable manufacturing jobs i've heard a lot [45:32] from republicans saying that they want to bring manufacturing jobs back let's roll up our sleeves [45:36] work together to get that done 30 seconds congress phone well nafta was a crap deal and it hurt a lot of [45:42] michiganders and what is also hurting us right now are donald trump's reckless policies that mike [45:48] rogers has said he wants to rubber stamp there's a reason why the gordie howe bridge isn't open and [45:53] mike rogers is rubber stamping that there's a reason why a trade war is going on with canada small [45:59] businesses all over michigan losing revenues as a result i thought he was going to take on china [46:05] i've got the bill to do that and to lessen our dependence and grow manufacturing jobs [46:09] i've done it once before and i'll do it again as michigan's next senator 30 seconds and the reason [46:14] that the big corporations always get their way when it comes to free trade is because they buy [46:18] off politicians to do their bidding everybody knew usmca was not going to solve the problem [46:22] everybody knew it and yet they bought the votes to get their way and now you can buy a cheap tv but [46:27] you can't find a manufacturing job that can actually feed your family that is the devastation of [46:31] corporate bought politics is the only candidate who's never taken a dime from a corporation you know [46:35] i'm going to stand up for you it's the reason again the uaw nurses aft have all supported us [46:40] because when it comes to the choice between working people and corporations i will pick people [46:44] every time yeah and it's the only reason you haven't released your tax returns and 15 labor [46:49] unions are endorsing me i yield rick yes amber has another sure go ahead quickly very quickly yeah [46:55] i took the same extension that the congresswoman took every single year she was in congress every [46:59] single year released your tax returns you don't need an extension to do that there's a process [47:02] putting money in your pocketbook we're going to move forward with another viewer question amber is [47:07] here with another viewer who wants to know where the two of you stand is the democratic party shifting [47:13] joe bielen has our next question he says many of my friends who are democrats are very concerned with [47:19] the way the party has shifted so far left that the party no longer accurately represents their views will [47:26] you continue on the current party path or will you pursue your own path of leadership 60 seconds for [47:33] you i'll pursue my own path of leadership educated by the countless days that i spent talking to [47:38] michiganders across 110 cities 450 public events now here's the thing about it there is no left or [47:44] right most people out there aren't asking where do i fit on the left right spectrum they're asking [47:48] can i afford my groceries when i go grocery shopping what's going to happen if i get sick or my kid gets [47:53] sick why does my kid's school look the same way it did 30 years ago when i went there and the [47:57] answer to that question is that for too long politicians on both sides of the aisle have [48:01] taken the same corporate corrupting money i'm the only candidate on this stage frankly the only [48:05] candidate running for u.s senate who's never taken a dime of that money which is why the real issue is [48:11] about the people locking you out of your politics versus the people being locked out and i will stand [48:15] always on the side of the folks who are locked out that is a pathway in our politics that i think all of [48:20] us can get behind it's not red it's not blue it's not democrat it's not republican it's american [48:25] government of the people by the people and for the people that is where our politics needs to go and [48:30] in the next 250 years when we get the chart where we go from here i hope we remember that that's what [48:34] we need 60 seconds i will run through anything and anyone to deliver for michigan we've got to lower [48:42] the cost look there are many who want to make this run for u.s senate about washington dc insider deals and [48:50] what's going on with our party leadership friends this is about the future of michigan who is going [48:57] to be the workhorse look i've got the receipts i've i i have passed big pieces of legislation i passed my [49:05] first bill to secure stem grants for our k-12 schools in my first year in congress i am ready to hit the [49:13] ground for our schools for our educators and to stand up to the corruption and the abuse of power [49:21] that we see coming down from donald trump if you want to stop trump i'm your gal the question was [49:29] about direction of the party is it shifting i'll tell you this it won't shift if we continue to elect [49:35] leaders who take money from the same corporations who have broken with the interests of the american [49:41] public chuck schumer desperately wants one of us to be the next senator and it's not me so if you [49:46] want your politics dictated you by a pack or chuck schumer then i'm not your guy i think we need to go [49:52] back to the idea of government of the people by the people and for the people 40 million dollars of [49:56] spending in this race 40 million dollars i want you to think about what that means that's money that [50:00] buys something on the back end so if you elect the person who took that money don't be surprised when [50:05] they betray you again i have the receipts as the most effective lawmaker for michigan i'm not trying [50:13] to go viral or get a good tweet out all right uh if you check the facts the claims that my opponent has [50:21] made about eradicating medical debt are untrue if that's all you got to run on abdul well then good [50:26] for you it's worth noting here that over the weekend a third candidate that was in this race dropped out [50:34] that leaves the two of you one of you will face republican mike rogers as you both talked about [50:40] a little bit here congresswoman stevens you've been endorsed as you said by former senator debbie [50:46] stabenow former governor jennifer granholm and as you said by the attorney general you have uh mr el [50:54] sayed been endorsed by bernie sanders congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez and a number of others i [51:00] went to both of your websites long list of endorsements is this race not only about control [51:07] of the u.s senate which it may well come down to but is this race also for control of the democratic [51:17] party is is there something else on the line here 60 seconds well i'm not going to let the pundits or [51:23] the prognosticators make any such determination for me this has always been about michigan i am the [51:31] daughter of small business owners who met at oakland university uh my dad is 81 years old and still [51:38] driving his ford f-150 with the word stevens landscaping on the side and he's drinking his [51:44] water look it's that value of hard work that ethos that i grew up with that has always long motivated [51:53] my approach to public service and the reason i have put up my hand to run for u.s senate is because [51:59] of what i'm hearing from michiganders because a fully paralyzed veteran reached out to me and asked me [52:05] if he was still going to get his benefit check because he saw elon musk walking around with a [52:10] chainsaw i have stood up i have i have called these guys out and i am stopping these abuses of power and [52:17] you better believe from the united states senate michigan's voice will be heard with me 60 seconds [52:23] i never intended to run for office i want to be a doctor i want to be a doctor because i can go 15 [52:27] hours to my family's native egypt or 15 minutes from where i grew up i went to medical school only to [52:31] realize that our health care system was in fact part of the problem not part of the solution i went [52:35] into public health we eliminated medical debt yes we eliminated medical debt we put glasses on kids [52:40] faces we took on corporate polluters we provided free health insurance we did the things that for [52:45] too long government fails to do under leadership that is bought off by corporations i'm running to do [52:50] three things get money out of politics put money in your pocket pass medicare for all i'm not doing [52:54] this because of some direction of a party i'm doing this because of the michiganders that i've gotten to see [53:00] a woman who had cancer three times and happened to hold on managed to hold on to her life savings [53:05] until the third one a woman who lost her entire life savings because her kid got cancer and died [53:11] people who have come and shared their burden with us if we continue to allow corporations to buy our [53:16] politicians do not be surprised when everything gets more expensive and your job gets further out of [53:21] reach that is the politics that is corrupting now and we need different 30 seconds well transparency [53:27] remains really key here you can see um my tax returns i've made them public again i call on my [53:32] opponent uh to to do the same because we do need to know who's putting money in your your pocket [53:37] particularly if you have a talent agency getting you paid speeches i've been busy doing the work for [53:43] michiganders period full stop power outage relief act we're still dealing with that small businesses [53:50] losing their revenues we got to do supply chain security i've got a bill for that i am ready to go for [53:57] us michigan on day one 30 seconds to wrap let's talk about power outages people sleeping in dark [54:03] rooms without electricity for the fourth straight day my opponent's taking 37 500 from dte ask yourself [54:09] what that buys our politics have been deeply and profoundly corrupted by corporate money and i want [54:15] to get money out you want to talk about transparency there's a group called center forward that happened [54:19] to pay for a flight for the congresswoman and her mother to portugal i want to understand what she [54:24] promised them in return you want to talk about transparency why are there 40 million dollars [54:28] flowing into our politics right now in support of my opponent yeah well and again i have the [54:33] receipts and i have the bill to stand up to the utility companies it's a lower right explain the [54:36] receipts so yes i i've got you're not explaining multiple bills i'll give you a chance when we come [54:40] back in a moment but first we're going to take a break and when we come back in 90 cents for 90 seconds [54:46] we're going to talk about something that has been discussed a lot in the past few months and that's [54:51] immigration enforcement and ice that's coming up but first we're going to take a break the [54:58] candidates will enter the spin room once our debate concludes there is a qr code right now that will [55:03] take you to our live post-debate coverage on wood tv plus we'll be right back all right everybody we are [57:14] in a break with the questions that we have many people have been critical of immigration customs [57:20] enforcement ice in the past months regarding their methods their detention facilities both of you on [57:27] some level had some uh questions problems with and about ice if not ice how would we how should we [57:37] how could we deal with the estimated millions of people in this country that didn't come through [57:43] the proper channels that we don't necessarily know who they are or where they are i'm going to start [57:48] with you uh dr el-sayed with 60 seconds what do we do with that situation so i just want to be [57:54] clear i went to minneapolis at the height of project metro surge i watched as our government [57:58] laid siege to a city in our own country it was awful to see ice is not about immigration ice is not [58:05] about the southern border i was on the nearly the northern border ice is about normalizing paramilitary [58:10] force on our streets i've been clear that you can't reform ice you can't retrain ice you have to [58:16] abolish ice now that's not to say that we can't secure our border that's not even to say that we [58:21] can't actually enforce our immigration policy that is to say that we shouldn't do it at the edge of [58:25] destroying our constitution itself ice is a new agency it is younger than i am we have done this in [58:31] the past in a way that respects the basic rule of law and if we're serious about actually having a [58:36] pathway in this country to a humane thoughtful common sense immigration system we've got to invest in [58:42] the court infrastructure that offers a pathway to citizenship for people who built a life here [58:47] and lived here peaceably and contributed to our society i think that's the responsibility we need [58:51] to go to while keeping our southern border safe and secure what would we do about ice in 60 seconds [58:56] yeah well before i jump to the bipartisan border security bill that i do support it must be said very [59:03] clearly that donald trump's ice is completely out of control and it is an abuse of power ice agents from top to [59:12] bottom that have committed crimes have to be held accountable and i've got the legislation to do it [59:18] i called on christy gnome to go she was removed but no reforms took place they took 70 billion dollars [59:27] of our taxpayer money into an ice slush fund this has been a failure a temple in my district was blown up [59:37] it wasn't ice that stood up it was state and local law enforcement that money needs to be redirected [59:45] to those law enforcement agencies that are responsible for our safety and security donald trump [59:51] has abused his power he has failed the american people and we need change 30 seconds look i appreciate [59:59] the change of tone on ice i mean my colleague voted to thank ice and increase their budget and also [1:00:04] uh took money from people who run ice contracts that to me seems very different than what we're [1:00:09] hearing now i've been deeply clear i don't take money from corporations i don't take money from [1:00:13] ice contractors which is why i can say with a clear voice we need to abolish ice i think we need clarity [1:00:19] about where folks's money comes from and what trades they make on the policy on the back end [1:00:23] to suave and to to bob and weave on these issues uh when these are issues of life and death 30 seconds to [1:00:30] write this well it's really unfortunate yet again to see my opponent pursuing uh republican tactics [1:00:36] there was a bill on the house floor to condemn an anti-semitic terrorist attack that in boulder [1:00:43] colorado that killed an individual and injured a holocaust survivor instead of bringing us together [1:00:50] republicans put in a cynical point about thanking ice i am always going to stand up to violence and i just [1:00:56] wish my opponent wouldn't pursue the cynical approaches of republicans when we do need to be [1:01:01] united amber's back with us with yet another viewer question let's do this question and then we're going [1:01:07] to come back to some of this in just a moment let's do the question child care is one of the biggest [1:01:12] expenses for the average michigan family jacob x line who was an early childhood educator wants to know [1:01:18] what would your plan be to make child care more affordable for families as a u.s senator congress one yes i have [1:01:26] long champion affordable child care here in michigan and across this country and in fact i was on the [1:01:34] phone with the daycare centers and the families when covid hit fighting to secure dollars to make sure [1:01:41] that daycare centers and the people who work in them stay open and employed look the costs continue to [1:01:48] go up the way in which we can lower daycare costs are through the expansion of cdbg funding and grants that [1:01:55] match what the our great governor here in michigan did i actually went to a daycare center with her [1:02:01] in troy michigan to celebrate some of the programs that she put into place and the other uh deal that [1:02:08] we need is we need paid family leave i'm a champion for paid family leave we need to secure uh the the [1:02:17] ability for new mothers and fathers to have that precious time with their newborns that's another [1:02:22] critical step i've got the record 60 seconds i'm a father of two daughters and the child care for our [1:02:30] youngest who's three years old is one of the most expensive items on our entire budget it is insane [1:02:35] how much people have to pay and for a lot of folks this has become a gender justice issue it's forcing [1:02:41] people out of the workforce predominantly women and it's holding them behind from lucrative [1:02:45] opportunities that they can use to advance their family in the first place i think we need to make [1:02:49] child care free 100 free now how do we pay for that we pay for that by taxing billionaires their [1:02:55] wealth we could render 4.6 trillion dollars if we were willing to put and let's say an 8 tax on [1:03:01] billionaire wealth this is not that difficult but it's a function of our values do we care enough to [1:03:06] make sure that women have access to the workplace that children have a safe healthy place to go or do [1:03:12] we rather would we rather be the kind of economy that allows billionaires to make a second billion a [1:03:16] third billion a trillion maybe like elon musk that is the question we need to answer and ultimately so [1:03:21] long as we allow billionaires and corporations to buy politicians we're going to get the wrong answer [1:03:25] 30 seconds this senate seat is considered a toss-up for november a 50 50 chance that it will go [1:03:32] democrat or republican the one thing that i do is i win tough races i flipped a congressional seat that [1:03:39] was long held by a republican blue in 2018 and i held it when donald trump was on the ballot [1:03:46] living my values living the values to make change and improve people's lives mike rogers he's not [1:03:52] going to do a thing to uh impact health uh child care and make it more affordable for families 30 [1:03:58] seconds look if you want somebody who's electable the last three polls in a row show that i'm the [1:04:02] most electable democrat in november why because you got to actually fight for something it's not enough [1:04:08] to offer people two options that kind of look the same on the issues that matter the most [1:04:12] if you're taking money from corporations the same corporations democrat or republican how different [1:04:16] are things really going to be i'm offering an opportunity to actually invest in what we want [1:04:20] to fight for for healthcare that is guaranteed for an economy that works for working people [1:04:25] for finally getting corporate money out of our politics well with all due respect to abdul i think [1:04:30] he looks a lot like mike more like mike rogers than i do all right so we have apparently scratched the [1:04:38] surface on a couple of differences between the two of you and this is not scripted and this is not [1:04:42] something that's planned and the people in the control room are about to pull their hair out [1:04:46] but i want to give you 30 seconds and i want to give you 30 seconds to pursue whatever this is [1:04:53] that's going on here obviously you've got a question about uh some of the money in her campaign you've [1:04:58] got a question about some of the money in his pocket 30 seconds well look my opponent wants to make [1:05:04] this race about lies and attacking my integrity and the work that i have done for the people of michigan [1:05:10] look i was the person from michigan on the team working on president obama's auto rescue i have [1:05:17] a proven track record of that i am proud of of fighting for this state standing up to special [1:05:23] interests and i have 15 labor unions standing alongside me in this fight and some other proven [1:05:29] individuals as well so can we stop the lies and can we get the transparency out that my opponents long [1:05:34] talked about i'd love to stop the lies that are being told on tv by organizations like the center for [1:05:40] democratic priorities which by the way didn't exist until it started to run ads for my opponent [1:05:45] like the united democratic progressives which by the way is a front for apac like center forward which [1:05:50] bought airline tickets for my uh opponent for her mother and herself to go to portugal i don't know [1:05:56] what they talked about i don't know what they did so if we want to talk about lies i think it's [1:05:59] really important for us to understand who's paying for them and what was said on the back end to [1:06:03] allow them to be told because 40 million dollars just it doesn't come for free so is the geo i'm glad we got [1:06:08] that all cleared up so uh we're gonna get back to these questions i want to talk about data centers [1:06:13] for a minute i'm going to give you a premise you can agree with it you can disagree with it but here's [1:06:17] my premise data centers are going to be built somewhere no matter what happens in michigan so [1:06:22] the question is are we better off to have some of those centers here or should they be actively [1:06:28] opposed as they have been by many citizens uh in meeting after meeting across the state and it's first [1:06:34] to you sir 60 seconds look right now people are scared to death that there's going to be this [1:06:38] gigantic data center put in their backyard so people like mike rogers can make gender affirming videos [1:06:42] about how buff they really are i think we have to be serious about the fact that these pose real [1:06:46] dangers and the people who are pushing them are the richest most powerful corporate ceos in the history [1:06:53] of our economy and so we've put forward a terms of engagement we want to make sure that if you want to [1:06:58] put a data center anywhere that it's going to meet the following terms all union labor no raising our [1:07:04] utility rates increasing our utility reliability uh not touching our water and then there has to be [1:07:09] a community benefits agreement that's negotiating good faith with all the money put up in escrow [1:07:13] and this has to be fully enforceable including shut down shutting down the data center that has to [1:07:17] be passed at the federal level now here's the thing big ai has huge super packs huge super packs [1:07:22] that guess who they're funding not me the other person on this stage and so the question for us is are we [1:07:28] willing to actually do what it takes to protect people from these risks or are we going to let [1:07:32] them roll us just like corporations continue to roll our politicians over and over again congresswoman [1:07:37] 60 seconds yeah well look the citizens need to be heard on innovation and data centers and it is up to [1:07:44] federal lawmakers to secure the tax code so that these gajillionaire enterprises are paying their fair share [1:07:53] it is unacceptable that rates would go up as a result i want to force these data centers to pay the [1:08:01] utility bills and to pay water bills for folks and look i also want to secure michigan being on the [1:08:08] forefront of innovation and manufacturing i visited hundreds uniquely hundreds of manufacturing shop floors [1:08:16] they are using this technology we want the jobs we just can't afford to force the workers to pay for it [1:08:22] and look yet again my opponent takes jabs except for he won't denounce the gop when they are funding [1:08:30] his operation in his candidacy and now uh bragging about the false polls that they're putting out that [1:08:37] he's going to be the best one to beat mike rogers that's me 30 seconds i'm sure everybody out there [1:08:42] thinks that republicans really want me to win this race sure um the real question is how much money has [1:08:48] the ai industry spent in this race and why are they spending it and whose vote are they buying [1:08:54] and what does that mean for you if you want a future way where ai is fully unregulated where we lose what [1:08:59] 50 percent of our jobs where a data center sits in your backyard you have a choice if you want someone [1:09:04] who's going to stand up for the people against the corporations you also have a choice notice none of the [1:09:09] answers actually speak to any of the points i'm making about the money that is being spent in these [1:09:13] races to corrupt our politics 30 because i have receipts and the people who are watching this [1:09:19] need to evaluate who who is running for u.s senate the chief lawmaking role in this country that has [1:09:28] the record that is not a show horse that is not i am not someone trying to go viral and shouting into a [1:09:35] bullhorn about problems i am delivering that is not something my opponent can say he's great at attacking [1:09:43] and he's great at uh covering up that his father-in-law's running his super pack that's [1:09:47] spending millions of dollars for him all right we're going to move on to a question that you [1:09:51] have both addressed because these go together and this one will go first to you congresswoman [1:09:57] we hear a lot about ai artificial intelligence hear about it every day i doubt that most of us [1:10:02] have a really good grasp of exactly what it is what role is going to play in our lives going forward [1:10:10] what role the government has in putting guard rails on technology that few fully understand that [1:10:16] could be a positive game changer that is evolving all of the time and is displacing [1:10:22] displacing workers already we know that that's happening so should the government jump in the [1:10:27] business of regulating ai 60 seconds yeah and look abdul is lying again he has a super pack that is run [1:10:35] by his father-in-law that has spent millions of dollars on his behalf and the gop is also spending [1:10:42] money it's good to know that his father-in-law isn't involved with ai here is the deal i passed my first [1:10:49] ai bill into law in 2020 all right in my first term in congress i have supported resources to invest and [1:10:59] protect in the privacy for consumers and to stand up for the little guy particularly [1:11:05] small businesses who need equitable investment black owned businesses like ones i visit on the [1:11:12] regular who oftentimes are getting the short end of the stick and they certainly are from donald trump [1:11:18] i want to make sure that resources are coming into our communities and that jobs are protected and [1:11:25] maintained we can do this here in michigan we just need the right leadership and i believe that is me [1:11:31] do we need to regulate ai 60 seconds absolutely first i just want to be clear the national [1:11:35] nurses united is not my father-in-law working families party is not my father-in-law uh the [1:11:40] uaw is not my father-in-law but i also want to speak to the fact that we do need to regulate ai [1:11:45] and so long as we are taking money the party is taking money from the ai industry it's not likely to [1:11:51] happen i propose the plan putting ai under democracy what does that mean that means that i want to make [1:11:56] sure that legacy internet companies no longer own the means of creating ai the ai corporations are spun off [1:12:02] as public interest corporations and that at least 50 percent of their boards are publicly appointed [1:12:09] meaning through the democratic process i also want real clear guard rails on what ai can and can't do [1:12:15] i want an agency in the government like an fda for ais and i want to make sure that we pass our [1:12:20] terms of agreement i can say all this because i'm not bought off by the ai companies you talked [1:12:24] about that 2020 regulation that was a giveaway to the ai industry so yes if you want someone who's really [1:12:29] effective at giving giveaways to the ai industry you have your option in this race 30 seconds well [1:12:34] i'm i'm pleased that my opponent read my deep fake uh bill to better detect uh the use of ai [1:12:40] particularly with our children uh it was written uh alongside the national institute of standard and [1:12:46] standards and technology and i am proud that that passed and you should be supporting it not attacking [1:12:52] it but that seems to be the only thing and stunt that he can pull while the gop is supporting his [1:12:58] campaign and look i worked really hard uh to make sure that kamala harris was going to get elected [1:13:05] and that donald trump would be stopped and my opponent did nothing i don't know what kamala [1:13:10] harris has to do with ai but i want to speak to the fact that right now we have a choice 40 million [1:13:16] dollars we're being outspent 30 to 1 in this race 30 to 1. that money is coming in from apac their goal [1:13:23] is to make sure that our money is sent abroad to kill other people rather than kept here to invest [1:13:30] here now the question you might be asking is what does it have to do with a question about ai [1:13:34] government will continue to work for the people who buy off government so long as we allow people to [1:13:37] buy off government it is that simple and you're seeing a case in point of that this next question [1:13:43] is one that i take very seriously i suspect many of the viewers do as well the national debt is more than [1:13:50] 39 trillion dollars 39 trillion dollars now the interest on that debt's about a trillion dollars [1:13:58] a year cbo says by 2036 it'll be about 2 billion dollars a year that'll be about 25 percent of [1:14:06] every dollar that comes into the national treasury what do we do to begin to reduce this burden that [1:14:15] will be passed along to your children and their children and likely their children would you raise [1:14:22] taxes the taxes would you vow to cut spending what would you do 60 seconds look as everyday michiganders [1:14:30] know that a budget sheet is about money in and money out and for a long time folks on the conservative [1:14:36] side want to tell us that it's all about money out we're spending too much but then they do two things [1:14:42] they cut taxes for the richest people in society and then they cut things like health care and guess [1:14:47] what happens they fight wars that we don't need to fight so money out goes up money in goes down and [1:14:53] we run up the national debt and then democrats show up and we're trying to be effective stewards of the [1:14:58] national debt so here's what we need to do we need to run the play in reverse how about we end stupid [1:15:02] wars we shouldn't be fighting at the behest of foreign governments how about we start taxing [1:15:06] billionaires their wealth so that we can return trillions of dollars to the economy and how about we [1:15:11] invest our money in the things that people actually need like good education child care good hospitals [1:15:17] and health care those are the opportunities we have in front of us so long as we don't allow [1:15:22] the same corporations and billionaires to buy our politicians so that they keep doing these ridiculous [1:15:27] things 60 seconds our national debt keeps me up for michiganders and it is very serious uh in part [1:15:35] because it is mortgaging the future of our children and the way in which we get out of our debt and [1:15:42] deficit mess is by taxing the growing billionaire class and forcing them to pay their fair share we [1:15:50] are growing our economy except for it's just with the very very few who aren't paying their fair share [1:15:57] if you listen to donald trump who my opponent just admitted he didn't do anything to help stop [1:16:03] him from getting elected he wants to do everything for the billionaire class donald trump did tax cuts [1:16:10] for them while cutting our food assistance and our health care uh benefits it's not acceptable and [1:16:17] it's not working we can't look at the middle class here in michigan and force them to keep paying people [1:16:23] can't pay their bills right now people are underwater i've had two working moms in the last day tell me [1:16:30] that it doesn't work 30 seconds look i just want to be clear i endorsed vice president harris i campaigned [1:16:36] for vice president harris i really wanted vice president harris to win this race now ask yourself [1:16:41] why we were where we were because for too long our policy has been wrong on a number of critical [1:16:47] issues and it's been wrong because of the role of special interests in our politics the same exact [1:16:52] special interests who get their way when it comes to our tax system the same exact special interests that [1:16:57] have us fighting stupid wars we shouldn't be fighting the same special interests who are funding [1:17:01] my opponent 30 seconds for you well look uh leadership is going to get us out of our debt and [1:17:08] deficit mass and as someone who has my finger on the pulse of the needs of the middle class here in [1:17:14] michigan you and your family and has i have the receipts and the track record of standing up for you [1:17:21] when it matters when 200 000 michigan jobs were on the line when general motors and chrysler were going to [1:17:27] go bankrupt and i worked on that initiative to save your jobs and those jobs look we can use tax [1:17:35] dollars effectively without letting our country go bankrupt here's another question that amber has [1:17:41] for us and this one kind of goes along with what we're talking about here's amber social security is [1:17:47] a top issue for many michiganders this next question is from mark luxford as a senior social security is a [1:17:54] very important issue to me what is your opinion of the proposal to guarantee adequate funding [1:18:00] for this critically important program by raising or better yet eliminating the income cap for the [1:18:06] fika tax that funds social security 60 seconds congress well i fully endorse that proposal of [1:18:13] eliminating the fika cap and making sure that folks are paying their fair share what is going on with [1:18:20] social security right now is another example of how donald trump and the billionaire class believe [1:18:25] that they can rob our social security trust fund and force the middle class to pay for uh the crisis [1:18:33] that we are going to be in we can fix this i have also stood up to donald trump today and said rehire the [1:18:42] social security workers that you have fired because my constituents they're on the phone trying [1:18:50] to get access to their disability benefit the retirement benefit and no one's picking up and [1:18:56] again these are programs that folks have paid into i believe in it mike rogers donald trump they're [1:19:03] going to sell us down the potomac river 60 seconds i've talked to so many seniors who are struggling [1:19:09] they're struggling because they paid their home off 30 years ago but the property tax is getting too high [1:19:16] their premium on their medicare is unaffordable and their social security just doesn't cut it they're [1:19:20] worried they might lose that social security so yes absolutely we have to lift the cap it would [1:19:24] make social security sustainable but we've got to go further i think we need to be eliminating the [1:19:28] premiums the co-pays and the deductibles on medicare and we need to make medicare fully [1:19:33] sustainable by extending it to everybody medicare for all would do exactly that on top of that i think [1:19:38] we need to be freezing property tax for seniors if you paid off your home at some point we can't [1:19:43] expect you to keep up with property taxes that are going up now how do we pay for that well again if we [1:19:47] tax billionaires their wealth if we were to invest in the department of education so that we're paying [1:19:52] centrally for public schools in an equitable way there are a lot of opportunities for us to lift [1:19:56] the burden off of seniors who've done their job they've worked extra hard they deserve a dignified [1:20:00] retirement and we've got to be thinking about how to offer them that congressman 30 seconds they are [1:20:05] bankrupting the social security trust fund it is unconscionable and wrong and michigan is going to [1:20:10] have a choice about who it sends to the united states senate to do something who's got the vision long [1:20:16] term for a six-year term to tackle a tough issue and that is what i've done over and over again [1:20:23] i have a plan for social security a plan to be able to work across the aisle if need be and most [1:20:30] importantly stand up to donald trump and elon musk in this moment 30 seconds look i'm here to serve you [1:20:37] i'm somebody who worked in the bowels of city and county government those are the kind of jobs where you [1:20:41] can't dodge tough issues you got to show up monday through friday and saturday and sunday too [1:20:45] you've got to make sure people get their services that they need and deserve and i know in places [1:20:49] like dc they look down on people who work in local government but i also think that we need that [1:20:54] viewpoint in the u.s senate right now we also need the viewpoint of a doctor somebody who understands [1:20:58] what it's like to make sure that you look people in the eye and deliver for them and i think we [1:21:02] haven't had that viewpoint frankly in a democrat since 1969 i aim to offer that this is going to be our [1:21:07] final question we're going to limit this answer to 45 seconds there will be a rebuttal but 45 seconds on [1:21:12] the main question the current economic tensions with china have created concerns that range from [1:21:17] cheap electric vehicles being flooded into some international markets to military concerns over [1:21:22] the build-up of china's armed forces and the dependence of our own military on chinese goods [1:21:28] and services should we be working to lessen our dependence on china and should we how should we deal [1:21:35] with a major competitor as well as a major trading partner 45 seconds my dad moved to this country to [1:21:40] learn to make cars and he believed in this place he immigrated from egypt the place where that was [1:21:45] not possible and he chose to come here because this was a place where innovation ingenuity those were [1:21:51] unleashed we had the mighty uaw who was empowered to make the cars that people like my dad would design [1:21:57] the challenge of course is that corporatism has gotten in the way i remember when my dad came home [1:22:01] in 1996 and said a company that's more interested in finance than it is in engineering is not going to be [1:22:06] a car company very long fast forward 2008 there we were i think we need to make sure our [1:22:10] corporations think long term i think we need to make sure that we are using trade as an effective [1:22:15] way to empower and protect our manufacturing capacity and then i think we need to unleash [1:22:19] ingenuity by investing in research and development for the future this needs to continue to be the [1:22:23] most innovative place and donald trump has sold that way far away 45 seconds well to every engineer [1:22:28] watching tonight i know how a cnc uh machine works and a robotic welder i am michigan's manufacturing geek [1:22:35] and nothing is motivating me more than standing up for our manufacturing sector and our jobs and that [1:22:43] means taking on china look i've got the bill one i also did with senator slocken no chinese cars act we [1:22:52] have to stop these guys from coming in to our market lowering costs uh up the wazoo that only feeds their [1:23:01] communist party that's not correct that's not going to work for us in michigan we can build affordable [1:23:08] cars here in michigan without having the chinese come in and eat our lunch not on my watch 30 seconds [1:23:14] there's a reason that the uaw has endorsed me in this race and they endorsed me in this race because [1:23:18] i understand that the biggest challenge we have right now the thing that is throttling our ingenuity [1:23:23] is the fact that our corporations are a lot more interested in a quarterly bottom line than they are [1:23:27] in the long-term sustainability of manufacturing i think we need to think differently that means [1:23:32] standing up to wall street not taking their money to run your campaigns and at the end of the day [1:23:36] the reason i believe in money out of politics then money in your pocket and medicare for all is [1:23:40] because as long as we're taking money from those corporations we are not going to regulate them [1:23:44] 30 seconds look i have taken on vladimir putin when he stole my constituent paul whelan and held him [1:23:51] in a russian prison for five and a half years i am taking on china now and standing up for our jobs [1:23:59] and not letting them flood our markets through the north or the south their technology cannot come in [1:24:05] here this is about our way of life in michigan this is squarely why i am running for u.s senate [1:24:12] to articulate this and defend it and protect it at the lawmaking table time to wrap up this debate if [1:24:19] you can believe it already you have done a great job in keeping within your time frame i'll ask you [1:24:23] to stay at 60 seconds with closing statements beginning with you we just celebrated our 250th [1:24:28] anniversary i know what my life would have been without the opportunity to be born here i saw that [1:24:33] firsthand in summers in egypt i know what america can do for somebody i also knew that 15 miles away there [1:24:39] were kids who never got that same opportunity we have to build an america that can be what it was for me [1:24:45] for all of her kids and that means we've got to take on the ways that corporate greed have gotten [1:24:50] in the way we need to stand with working people stand with unions we need to take on oligopolies [1:24:56] and billionaires we need to guarantee health care through medicare for all across my time touring this [1:25:02] state town hall after town hall you could be in a church in detroit you can be in a living room in [1:25:08] lansing a vfw hall in escanaba people say the same things it just shouldn't be this hard shouldn't be this [1:25:12] hard to afford your grocery shouldn't be this hard to pay your rent shouldn't be this hard to see a [1:25:16] doctor in the richest most powerful country in the world and that means we've got to build a movement [1:25:21] of people to get money out of politics put money in your pocket and pass medicare for all i hope [1:25:25] that you'll join us in building that movement it's the many versus the money conversation 16 seconds i am [1:25:30] fed up and fired up i am fed up with michiganders getting screwed over by bad policies that are coming [1:25:36] down from the trump administration that do not understand the first thing about us and that are [1:25:42] raising our costs and impacting our way of life and coming for our jobs i am fired up though to be [1:25:49] your next u.s senator i am fired up to lead for us on day one and when it matters and to be in this fight [1:25:57] alongside you and your families all 83 counties in this incredible state of ours the largest state [1:26:05] geographically east of the mississippi deserves its workhorse and that is me that is why [1:26:12] i am on this campaign trail listening to you hearing you and leading in that order that is my ethos [1:26:20] that is why i am running let's go beat mike rogers send him back to florida a second time and make sure [1:26:27] that michigan shines at the lawmaking table candidates thank you both for being here i know [1:26:32] it takes a lot of time and effort to do it i know you know how much i appreciate it i just want to make sure [1:26:37] i say it publicly to both of you i want to thank amber and all of my colleagues here at wood tv [1:26:42] our corporate staff who has been doing a great job and helping us from the get-go to all of our [1:26:46] partners around the state that are carrying this debate tonight and particularly i want to thank [1:26:51] everybody who has just been here on the ground and helping us a reminder to join us back here on [1:26:56] thursday night for a debate with the republican candidates for governor good night from grand rapids [1:27:01] thank you all right we have been watching the michigan democratic primary debate between abdul el [1:27:09] sayed and hayley stevens the incumbent congresswoman uh i told our producer tom to hold on this shot [1:27:16] because i was wondering if they were going to go shake hands at the end of the debate as you see [1:27:20] the credits roll so uh as things stand here from the hill studios we did not see them uh shake hands uh [1:27:26] but look it was it was a feisty debate i wouldn't call it spicy i think both of them did a pretty good [1:27:32] job of letter letting the other one finish uh big shout out to rick albin and the team at uh wood tv8 [1:27:37] uh for moderating what was a very nice uh very organized uh and engaging and informative uh debate [1:27:44] so we're going to spend the next uh 32 minutes or so breaking it all down with a host of friends [1:27:48] uh that are joining us here in washington dc julia mueller is here in next me campaign reporter for the hill [1:27:55] and robbie suave co-host of rising as well uh good evening to you both uh julia are [1:28:01] i'll start with you just your top line headlines highlights uh from the hour-long debate we just [1:28:07] watched yeah i think this debate uh now that we're down to two leading candidates on the democratic [1:28:14] primary i think this debate reinforced what people had started to view the race as um after mallory [1:28:21] mcmorrow exited uh this week as a proxy battle between uh you know the progressive um left abdul [1:28:28] sayed and then the more establishment moderate centrist uh stevens and they both leaned into [1:28:36] those attack lines tonight uh you know el sayed sort of pitching uh his opponent as you know trying to [1:28:42] tie her to the establishment we had stevens uh flexing her experience uh in elected office and on capitol [1:28:50] hill but then also raising concerns that el sayed if he wins could make it easier for republicans to win [1:28:56] this seat which is a must win for democrats yeah uh robbie two words come to mind purchase power [1:29:01] el sayed kept saying uh hayley stevens was bought and paid for and hayley stevens kept saying i have [1:29:05] the receipts from my work in congress what did you make of that debate is did it play out how you [1:29:11] expected it to play out now that you did have that one-on-one uh challenge with memora dropping out [1:29:18] and make sure you unmute yourself robbie make sure we get that taken care of tom is that on our end or his [1:29:23] end nope can't hear you can't hear you just yet all right julia you answer that question then uh [1:29:32] what did you make of that constant going back to the well by el sayed you know hayley stevens is [1:29:37] bought and paid for um and her sort of turning it around and saying look i'm not being bought and [1:29:42] paid for i'm already in congress and i'm doing the work that michiganders want me to do in congress [1:29:46] yeah i think uh that you know that again it really crystallized what i think we're going to continue to [1:29:52] see in the weeks leading up to this primary now that these candidates are in a bitter you know [1:29:57] two-person jostle for the nomination here um and i think that you know el sayed uh leaned into [1:30:05] hit this this line again it helped to sort of tie stevens to establishment repeat some criticisms [1:30:12] that we've been hearing from progressive anti-establishment candidates across the country [1:30:17] this cycle as they sort of try to rev up support um and excitement among voters who want to see a change [1:30:23] to the status quo all right let's try robbie again uh can you hear me now yes there's the sweet dulcet [1:30:28] tones of one robbie suave what'd you make of this debate my friend uh by the way i i a rookie mistake [1:30:35] i got a new microphone and just assumed it would work and uh of course it didn't uh as for the debate [1:30:41] um i think haley stevens was making the electability argument pointing to the fact that [1:30:47] um uh mike rogers the republican opponent opponent would rather be up against abdul el sayed the pro and [1:30:55] that's true the problem is primary voters on both sides of the political spectrum do not care about [1:31:02] that argument is what i'm learning that just carries no water with them democratic primary voters [1:31:09] are mad at the establishment they think the party has been led astray by its leadership they don't want [1:31:15] to hear that some small number of republicans actually like haley stevens better so they should [1:31:20] go with her that is not an argument that is going to work so if if that's the pitch it's just not going [1:31:27] to go anywhere you've got to be railing against that establishment that's what fits the mood of [1:31:31] democratic primary voters so while i well i personally think it's actually a perfectly good argument and [1:31:37] more uh more voters would be uh would be well advised to listen to it both sides would pick up [1:31:42] more senate seats if they were more disciplined their primary voters at least uh it's that's not [1:31:48] going to cut it i don't believe it uh julia they asked about israel and aipac they asked about [1:31:53] bipartisanship leadership the future of the democratic party ai and data centers uh any issue really stand [1:31:59] out in your mind as a sort of flashpoint in this debate i thought uh you know all of those issues [1:32:04] really stood out of course but i think i thought one interesting moment in the debate was when the [1:32:08] moderator sort of acknowledged he was going off script a little bit and asked the candidates to [1:32:13] differentiate themselves um there was another point where uh the moderator pointed to endorsements that [1:32:20] both these candidates have um you know uh bernie sanders and aoc for el sayed and uh the former [1:32:26] senator former governor for uh stevens and asked them both you know is this race about something bigger than [1:32:33] just this race is you know sort of suggesting alluding to you know how must win this is how [1:32:38] important it is to the party uh and he asked you know is there something else on the line here is this [1:32:43] a race for control of the democratic party and its direction um steven said she wasn't going to let the [1:32:49] pundits or the prognosticators make that determination it's always been about michigan el sayed said [1:32:54] similar he said he's not doing this because of some direction of the party um but at the same time you [1:32:59] know i think that's how a lot of people are viewing this and other races this cycle you know with [1:33:03] democrats looking for new leadership this race uh again sort of offers a test of appetite for voters [1:33:10] of what approach they want robbie same question question anything stick out to you on a in a [1:33:14] particular issue that they were asked about um not really i think it comes down to again the anger [1:33:21] of the leadership and and also how he's portraying her as a you know tool of a pack something that [1:33:29] democratic primary voters are very angry about um you know so-called israel influence on what's [1:33:37] going on michigan uh which is the state my birth state by the way uh is such an interesting place [1:33:43] because on one hand you can certainly see the argument that you know this is a state that uh that [1:33:49] voted for trump in the last election this is a swing state very down the middle state so it would [1:33:56] behoove democrats to have a more moderate candidate if they're going to win in a in a state that trump [1:34:02] won right that's on paper that makes sense on the other hand michigan does have a large arab american [1:34:09] population that was dissatisfied with kamala harris specifically over the gaza issue and voted if not for [1:34:17] trump in record numbers for the green party candidates so they basically did you know opted out of voting for [1:34:24] kamala so this might be the one state where despite it being a um a middle of the road swing state it [1:34:32] does not help the democratic candidate to be more moderate on this specific issue so i was referring [1:34:38] to the electability argument a minute ago i mean i think that is a real uh downside that haley stevens has [1:34:44] in that state specifically which is why i frankly i don't expect her to win this primary uh at all [1:34:52] julia for the mcmurro uh voters out there who are now in play uh for for both of these candidates uh [1:34:59] did you hear anything were there any moments where stevens or al-sayed really sort of spoke to those [1:35:06] voters who maybe agree with both candidates 80 90 of the time but being on economic issues or cultural [1:35:14] issues you know some things may be bridged too far did any candidate tonight sort of maybe pull some of [1:35:20] those voters in yeah the question of where mcmurro's voters go as well as i think there are questions [1:35:26] about where her money might go now that she's out of this race um you know it's um it was the tonight [1:35:31] was important for you know and we don't know yet uh you know about the viewership of this but tonight [1:35:36] was important in terms of both these candidates being able to make pitches to those mcmurro voters [1:35:42] mcmurro was trying to operate or operate in sort of the middle ground between the two which was a [1:35:47] difficult lane for her and you know contributed probably to her struggling to gain more traction [1:35:53] um and i think both candidates you know you mentioned watching to see them shake hands but [1:35:58] um tonight was very you know there was a lot of sparring early on but it was a pretty cordial debate [1:36:03] there wasn't a lot of crosstalk or fighting over each other they both definitely took their jabs stuck [1:36:09] to their talking points and you know had some uh attack lanes in there uh but it was you know [1:36:14] a relatively uh cordial i thought um and i think that you know that in and of itself may have been [1:36:19] a tactic in mind in terms of reaching these mcmurro voters who were looking more toward the middle you [1:36:24] know maybe had things in common with both candidates um trying to make that approach there uh robbie abdul al [1:36:29] sayed not a card-carrying member of the democratic socialists of america though he did mention that he is [1:36:34] endorsed by the working families party um did you hear anything tonight that you know maybe sounded a lot [1:36:42] like dsa i think to me what should that was the very first answer he gave he talked about passing [1:36:48] medicare for all uh if he is ultimately elected to the senate which just given the math and the [1:36:53] building is a bit of a pipe dream but did you hear anything some red meat maybe out there for [1:36:58] the the far left progressives in this race who may still be undecided oh i think the any far left [1:37:06] progressives out there are perfectly happy with this candidate i mean he he speaks to them uh very well [1:37:11] not just on you know medicare for all but as i mentioned a moment ago laser focus on gaza i mean [1:37:16] he chose hassan piker to be his most prominent campaign spokesperson uh i just read a statement [1:37:24] from him about the graham planter situation which among all the people jumping off the graham planter [1:37:29] wagon which is basically everyone at this point cenk uygur is like out by himself uh it was a tepid [1:37:36] stepping off of the graham planter wagon at that i i think it shows you that this is you know a rather [1:37:43] uh progressive quite to the left um a figure in the mold of some of these people who've won primaries [1:37:50] uh in new york and colorado and so on and that fits the mood of the democratic primary electorate these [1:37:57] very progressive these far left people are beating out uh you know progressives i mean [1:38:02] and haley stevens is is quite moderate uh as far as democratic candidates go he you could see a [1:38:10] world where he'd be trouncing a candidate that was much much much more progressive than she is because [1:38:17] that's the anger the electorate has no i i think he's whether he calls himself part of the dsa i think [1:38:23] he's a candidate who is very comfortable uh in that mold who knows to focus on the issues that matter [1:38:28] most of them medicare for all uh a kind of relentlessness some would say obsession with [1:38:33] bringing up um israel's influence and and so on and that's when you talk about those things uh solely [1:38:41] those things if you're associated with hassan piker and the dsa these are all deliberate choices [1:38:47] that uh will very likely to be politically successful at least in the short term uh julia you cover campaigns [1:38:53] for the hills i'll ask you after a debate um what are some of the things that you look for in terms of [1:38:59] a a a candidate being able to sort of harness any momentum that they build up during the debate or [1:39:05] maybe trying to change a narrative after the debate i the first place to look is on social media [1:39:13] because you know they're depending on who how many people tune in on the actual night of there is a lot [1:39:19] more to gain in terms of potential viral moments and attraction online from pieces of the debate [1:39:26] that go viral or you know the candidate themselves spread so i'd look and you know be watching how [1:39:32] people are responding to this online um and you know what particular moments from a video or from the [1:39:39] stage um gain traction and then the candidates themselves will you know clip the either their own [1:39:45] performances or the performances of their opponent um and try to you know hammer that spin it into [1:39:52] an ad um and i think that's you know something to keep an eye on in the next couple hours and and this [1:39:57] week um as they both try to you know use this debate as you know their their reach out to these [1:40:02] mcmurra voters or uh you know to voters who haven't made up their minds yet uh robbie how would you [1:40:08] expect i mean if you were a strategist for for either of these campaigns you know at this point do you [1:40:13] think this is abdul al-said's race to lose um or is is haley stephens maybe depending on where these [1:40:21] murrow folks go maybe have a lane here even though we are in this sort of anti-establishment environment [1:40:29] i mean the pundit in me wants to play this up is still anybody's game and maybe a debate can make [1:40:34] a difference but i'm doubtful my friend uh he's well ahead and the more progressive candidate is winning [1:40:42] in the democratic primary um time and time again so i'm just reading the tea leaves here and and [1:40:48] again michigan is the one place where i think him being so much further to the left on uh the israel [1:40:54] issue could really advantage him and and this is a state it's a it's an unusual state this is some [1:41:00] place this is a place that bernie sanders defeated hillary clinton in a primary in 2016 when 2016 excuse [1:41:07] me no one saw that coming you know he was a much more uh progressive uh person than her running on [1:41:14] some of these same issue he was the first to bring some of these issues that an abdul al-said uh cares [1:41:20] about to the forefront so i think it would i think the stars would have to align for uh for it to not [1:41:27] go his way given everything uh that's happening and maybe that means the general election is a little [1:41:32] bit more competitive or maybe it doesn't it will have to see uh juliana not like tonight after [1:41:38] watching this debate after seeing where the polls are if you're you know the the democratic uh senate [1:41:43] campaign committee are you having some heartburn about michigan now um or do you to robbie's point [1:41:50] think okay if al-said is going to be the candidate here we're going to need his grassroots support to [1:41:57] really come through because this could be an uphill uphill battle when it comes to electability [1:42:02] against mike rogers yeah well i mean speaking of you know standout lines from from the night i think [1:42:07] that was a particular attack line that stephens made over and over was you know saying that al-said [1:42:13] is the candidate that you know republicans want or will make this race easier that was something that [1:42:17] she was arguing um and i think democrats across the board are you know maybe having heartburn about [1:42:24] this race and others in light of you know what's happening in the main senate race as well there's [1:42:29] just some you know uh heightened stakes across the board making all of these races even more important [1:42:35] you know there's all the numbers about how many seats democrats need to net um but you know any [1:42:40] changes and we see things so far this cycle change very quickly uh and sometimes unexpectedly in these [1:42:46] races so i think you know i i would expect the democrats are on guard in this race uh and elsewhere [1:42:53] um and just in light of you know everything that's coming out and these you know changes even like [1:42:57] mcmorrow exiting the race uh robbie same question um if you're uh the democratic uh you know the dnc [1:43:05] democratic party how are you feeling right now about the michigan race um and we should say look [1:43:11] now that you have to factor into the senate math what might happen in maine right i mean i think my [1:43:17] attention is mostly focused on uh maine obviously that's the situation continuing to give me heartburn [1:43:23] although frankly the upside of all this uh i know it's a little uh callous just to focus on the horse [1:43:30] race aspects of it there were very serious allegations made against graham platter but [1:43:35] honestly a different candidate probably any other candidate is going to be more competitive against [1:43:39] susan collins in that race is where we've come to so maybe the national party is uh relieved they [1:43:45] have an opportunity or seem like they're going to have an opportunity to swap in a stronger candidate [1:43:51] um you know with abdul el-sayed there's not been any suggestion and not a hint of any you know [1:43:57] scandal or anything of that nature um he's not um someone with a uh very significant public profile [1:44:05] but a much more significant public profile than you know graham platter who was totally unknown until [1:44:10] this uh race so i you know i don't think they're necessarily worried about any of that although [1:44:15] you know haley stevens is more tested in in those terms having been uh elected to congress previously [1:44:23] but uh i i think they'll be i think they're looking at that race with interest i think they're probably [1:44:28] saying that they're hoping the national environment is so anti-trump right now his his approval down [1:44:35] that you know michigan estate he narrowly won in 2024 but lost in 2020 is trending back in a 2020 [1:44:43] direction and that they're going to feel strongly about whichever democrat um they have uh they [1:44:49] might be sweating a little bit at the idea of the republicans running so many ads about again hassan [1:44:55] piker said america deserved 9 11 and abdul el-sayed is his best friend and chose him to be the campaign [1:45:01] surrogate uh that that stuff can have an effect uh maybe um or maybe not we'll see uh let's go and [1:45:10] bring in uh jerome zhao prediction market experts uh with us on this tuesday night and jerome i'll ask [1:45:15] you to share your screen because i love being able to talk to somebody who is deep into the prediction [1:45:20] markets how have things changed um with this race now that you do have uh mcmurro uh out of it uh and [1:45:28] her voters sort of uh in play here yeah so share my screen i think mcmurro's exit actually did not impact [1:45:39] the markets that much i think prior to her officially leaving um you can see she is the [1:45:45] orange right here um she was actually favored in the market back in march um when it looked like you [1:45:50] know she's taking kind of that middle road um between stevens and el-sayed maybe she could get [1:45:55] the sort of large pool of voters who are in between um who cared about you know electability but also [1:46:01] wanted someone who was more sort of progressive populist that kind of vibe um and things did not really [1:46:08] pan out that way and you know before dropping out she's out like a one percent chance um at this [1:46:13] point markets think this is el-sayed's race to to lose um in part from some of the polls that have [1:46:20] come out showing him maybe slightly ahead but also i think they're you know people are pricing in this [1:46:25] expectation that the energy on uh the democratic side in primaries um after new york city um after [1:46:33] colorado is really with the you know populist progressive left um instead of the more you [1:46:39] know establishment maybe more centrist um wing of the party and you can see that not only here but [1:46:45] also in other primaries like missouri's first congressional district where you know corey bush's [1:46:49] chances of winning um beating wesley bell actually surged following new york and colorado as well so [1:46:55] it's part of a broader trend i think that uh people are seeing within this democratic party primary season [1:47:00] uh robbie before we let you go my friend i'll give you uh the mic uh for a second what are you looking [1:47:06] for uh here we are july 7th um i think what maybe 26 or so legislative days left until the midterm [1:47:13] elections um from a senate standpoint because this was a senate debate uh would you rather be republicans [1:47:20] right now or would you rather be democrats oh that's a tough one it's as close as it can be [1:47:26] honestly before this most recent uh round of fetterman news i think i uh not fetterman excuse me [1:47:34] grand planner news i would have rather been uh the republicans because i was pretty confident in susan [1:47:40] collins to hold that seat given the planner was going to be her opponent i now think they will have [1:47:45] time unless planner decides i don't need to leave you can't make me it sounds like he's probably going [1:47:52] to leave and that i think actually ends up helping the democrats makes that collins race just a little [1:47:58] bit more difficult before that i was thinking they're very likely to hold republicans are likely [1:48:02] to hold that seat uh texas still an unknown i mean if they hold if collins wins it's over for the [1:48:10] democrats anyway so that's really game over now that's looking maybe a little bit more favorable to [1:48:16] democrats if abdel el saeed picks this up if uh talarico pulls out something i don't know it is [1:48:24] really close it's it's genuinely a nail biter and i'm not sure at this point i i guess i still probably [1:48:30] maybe very narrowly buy a smidge like the republicans chances to keep the senate but i would not be [1:48:37] surprised either way yeah look it is an eternity um until november 3rd uh so anything can happen between [1:48:45] now and then for sure uh robbie thank you for your time tonight my friend get some sleep because i [1:48:49] know you got an early morning tomorrow we appreciate the insight as always uh jerone and julia gonna [1:48:54] stick with me jerone you read my mind because i wanted to see uh what was going on uh in terms of [1:48:59] the generic ballot uh especially in the senate when it comes to prediction markets what have you seen [1:49:06] over maybe the last month or so with where you know betters think this thing is going yeah so the [1:49:13] interesting thing is the generic ballot the general environment hasn't shifted too much and in favor [1:49:18] of democrats or republicans right there's maybe a small bump in trump's um approval rating perhaps [1:49:25] from the iran ceasefire maybe from some of the you know july 4th or the world cup celebrations sort of [1:49:32] uh like a like a small summer high the fluctuations you've seen in this chart have mostly been due to [1:49:38] individual races i think democrats need a lot to go right um as robin said they need to hold michigan [1:49:44] they need to flip north carolina which looks fine so far um and maine because maine is you know the [1:49:50] actually only senate seat that uh harris won in 24 that a republican holds um and then there's these [1:49:57] four other states which are all kind of you know trump plus 11 to trump plus 14 states right those are [1:50:04] you know alaska iowa texas uh and i'm missing one of them alaska iowa texas uh maybe ohio ohio yes [1:50:17] that's right exactly um so the fascinating thing here is because they're all kind of clustered around [1:50:23] that mark if the generic ballot improves by a couple points right that could net democrats two or three of [1:50:29] those um if it you know sort of becomes a uh recedes a little bit in terms of the blue wave democrats could [1:50:37] end up very narrowly losing all four of them um even with a good generic ballot results otherwise [1:50:43] so that is something where each state has its own sort of individual um you know characteristics [1:50:49] some of them have stronger candidates some of them have former uh senators running um but overall [1:50:56] i think as a whole those four democrats need at least two of them and that's what makes it so [1:51:01] hard is because these are inherently republican leaning states uh but they're all seen as toss-ups [1:51:05] at the moment by the markets yeah julia this was always going to be an uphill battle for democrats [1:51:10] uh when you're out there talking to your sources what races are given you know democrat strategists [1:51:15] a little bit of heartburn um where they may be seeing a little bit of optimism yeah well there [1:51:20] was some interesting new polling from the new york times in the past couple days um from a number of [1:51:25] competitive senate races um and democrats were ahead in north carolina and in maine although you know [1:51:33] pending those developments around platner we'll see what happens there um there was a tie between [1:51:40] democrat james tallarico and republican attorney general ken paxton in texas so that's a surprisingly [1:51:47] competitive race you know that democrats have been trying for decades to have a statewide win in red texas [1:51:53] and then republicans were leading in alaska ohio and iowa's senate races um and so at the same time [1:52:02] what the polling shows there is republicans in you know if the election were held today based [1:52:07] off those polls you know republicans are still favored to win um but at the same time the closeness [1:52:12] of the races including in those three states alaska iowa ohio just a couple points separating the [1:52:18] candidates the closeness of those races shows that democrats do have a path um so i think those are the [1:52:24] ones to watch you know as we particularly like i said in maine we'll see what happens there um texas uh [1:52:30] continues to be a very interesting race now that the incumbent is out and it's paxton versus talarico [1:52:36] so you know some races where democrats are feeling more optimistic in north carolina [1:52:41] roy cooper is ahead by seven points in this polling um other races more tighter margins so it looks like [1:52:48] the democrats may have a spending issue on their hand in terms of where to send the money to get the [1:52:53] most bang for their buck i think so um and you know that was always a part of the conversation [1:52:59] particularly as you know democrats were seeing really early in this cycle whether or not they [1:53:04] would be competitive or could be competitive in texas you know that's a state where democrats maybe [1:53:09] haven't spent as much because they haven't had stronger candidates for particular races and same [1:53:14] on the republican side at the same time though because republicans may find themselves on on the back [1:53:20] foot in states that they thought would be a little bit more comfortable this cycle so there's that element [1:53:24] as well as your own do we have a market for just sort of a head-to-head democrat versus republican [1:53:29] uh there in michigan uh that you can pull up yep so yeah oh wow so yeah let us know um okay that's [1:53:39] interesting uh that that it hasn't has much hasn't changed no it hasn't changed that much although i think [1:53:45] the chart is a little bit uh deceptive in how it displays the numbers because if you look back in [1:53:51] february right democrats were actually closer to you know 80 chance to to win the michigan center [1:53:56] race now they're at like 71 which is um you know a pretty big numerical shift in terms of you know [1:54:02] going from 80 20 to 70 30 um they're still favored because i think the general environment in michigan [1:54:10] and nationally favors democrats i think you know there's no uh scandal right that like clouding al-sayed's [1:54:19] candidacy it's more you know is he maybe too progressive for the state um that's probably [1:54:26] explained some of why the the margins um in the market narrowed a little bit um but overall you know [1:54:33] this is a very very close state if you look at past midterms democrats have actually done well in [1:54:37] michigan even in 2022 um and 2018 obviously there is likely going to be a very strong democratic ticket [1:54:45] uh with with jocelyn benson the secretary of state leading um most likely on the governor's [1:54:51] side um with the one-on-one against john james most likely um there's no there used to be a third [1:54:57] party candidate mike dugan the mayor of detroit who ended his candidacy so that's a much more [1:55:01] straightforward election for democrats there um so there's a lot of tailwinds for democrats in the [1:55:06] state although there i will note this is you know much closer than north carolina much closer than [1:55:13] georgia in the markets so there is some additional uncertainty um owing to i guess the you know democrats [1:55:20] haven't really nominated a progressive bernie sanders-esque candidate in a you know swing [1:55:26] state a trump one state that is close in senate races in the past and this might be one of the [1:55:31] first times that they actually do it and see how the elector reacts julia another interesting moment [1:55:36] during that debate was when uh rick albin the moderator asked you know is this race about more [1:55:42] than just a michigan senate see is it about the future of the party from a campaign standpoint the [1:55:48] folks that you talk to do they see it as that or do they just simply see this as we need to win a race [1:55:54] in this specific state uh let's try and nominate the person who can best do that and then figure [1:55:59] out what the future of the party is a little bit later on i think it's a little bit of both of course [1:56:05] this is a specific race and like we've said before you know all of these states have their own contours [1:56:10] that that make the race you know particular and and you know some things you can't apply nationally but at [1:56:17] the same time i think that it has been maybe increasingly seen as part of something bigger [1:56:22] which would you know maybe why the moderator asked that question too um as we get you know the string [1:56:28] of recent progressive anti-establishment candidate wins i think all of these races are putting a [1:56:36] increased spotlight on this broader question for the party of what's the best path forward i think it'll [1:56:41] be interesting to watch in the next couple of weeks also in michigan as well as in some other [1:56:46] states there will be additional tests for dsa candidates of course al-sayed is not formally a dsa [1:56:53] candidate but sort of representative of that progressive and anti-establishment push um and there [1:56:59] are a couple races in michigan uh representative talib is running for for re-election um and in the 12th [1:57:06] district and then there's also um the detroit dsa branches supporting a candidate and a challenge [1:57:12] against representative thanadar so we'll see some races there that i think will be continued tests [1:57:18] of appetite for this kind of candidate um in michigan and then you know coupled with these national wins [1:57:25] could speak to you know this broader conversation i think it was the dsa said something akin to you know [1:57:31] we're moving out of you know the big apple we're seeing some of these ones on the west coast and [1:57:35] looking um past past the the new york primaries that really started this so-called mamdani effect [1:57:41] uh jerome we got a little bit of time left uh just one last question for you um any markets standing [1:57:47] out to you as we get closer to the midterms any movement you're seeing out there that really sort [1:57:51] of piqued your interest yeah i think one race that's i think on the same night as michigan is the [1:57:58] wisconsin governor uh primary um that is one where there actually is a dsa candidate um francesca hong [1:58:10] um who you know has now taken the lead in the markets um to be the next democratic nominee you [1:58:18] know wisconsin is a absolutely razor thin state you know all three times that trump ran um it was within [1:58:25] one percent um and democrats currently hold the governorship but you know i think it's fascinating to kind [1:58:31] of test can this kind of message um that is more progressive more populist resonate in these sort [1:58:40] of rust belt states yeah certainly it's certainly going to be something that we're going to be [1:58:44] watching um play out as we continue to click through the uh the primary calendar and get to november it'll [1:58:52] be here uh before we know it but still a lot of races uh to be run a lot of debates to be had we [1:58:57] certainly do appreciate you being here with us on the hill decision desk 26th for jerone zao julia [1:59:02] muller caroline vikhil and robbie suave and of course chris starwalt i'm cory smith we'll see [1:59:08] you next tuesday everybody have a great night