Michigan Secretary of State debate - Full debate

[0:32] hi everybody can i have this mic can i have this mic isn't this mic on hello hi everybody welcome [0:40] welcome welcome we're going to get started in a couple minutes uh there's a little bottleneck so [0:45] we might start just a couple minutes late to make sure that we fill this room we have a lot [0:49] of people in the spillover room as well so we'll get started in a sec um few logistics please [0:54] silence your phones um once the debate starts nobody's really allowed into the auditorium [1:01] so please just stay to your seats uh for the whole program uh we request that you hold your [1:08] applause during the debate with two exceptions uh to welcome the candidates to the stage and to [1:14] thank them at the debate's conclusion and i want to remind the audience of the university of michigan [1:20] freedom of expression policy the university of michigan strives to create a truly open forum [1:25] one in which diverse opinions can be expressed and heard in a safe and understanding environment [1:31] however you agree or disagree with the positions of our guests please remain respectful of others [1:36] in the room and those watching online so that all of their views can be heard the debate is between [1:43] the two candidates we can and will have our own debates about the topics and policies amongst ourselves [1:50] after the event so thank you for your attention and your cooperation and finally following the debate [1:56] everyone is invited to a reception in the great hall so we'll get started in just a moment [5:10] good evening good evening good evening it is wonderful to see such a full room for this conversation [5:22] i am celeste watkins hayes the dean of the gerald r ford school of public policy here at the university [5:28] of michigan thank you thank you so much it's a real treat to welcome you to wild hall for this important [5:39] event the secretary of state plays a vital role in michigan's democracy overseeing elections and voter [5:46] registration and helping ensure that michiganders can participate in our democratic process with [5:52] confidence for the ford school and the university of michigan and especially for our students it is a [6:00] privilege to host this debate and to see democratic engagement up close these opportunities to listen [6:08] ask questions and engage across differences are central to what we hope our students experience [6:15] here thank you to our candidates and everyone who made tonight possible including our media partners at [6:22] bridge michigan and gongwer state affairs before we turn it over to our moderators jordan hermani and [6:30] zach gorchow please join me in welcoming our candidates to the stage and please join me [6:38] in giving a warm welcome to garland gilchrist the second and anthony forlini good evening from the [7:05] university of michigan's gerald r ford school of public policy i'm jordan hermani a capital reporter for [7:11] bridge michigan and the moderator of tonight's debate and i'm zach gorchow president of michigan operations [7:16] for gongwer news service and state affairs and i'll be your co-moderator for the evening welcome to the [7:22] first secretary of state debate between the two major party candidates macomb county clerk anthony [7:26] forlini a republican and lieutenant governor garland gilchrist ii a democrat thank you to the ford [7:32] school for sponsoring this debate and to the candidates for being here tonight the format of [7:37] this debate has been pre-established by the ford school candidates will be given three minutes for [7:41] opening remarks with clerk forlini going first as established by a coin toss which occurred [7:46] backstage prior to these remarks from there we will ask a series of questions to the candidates [7:51] each will have two minutes to answer the question and be given one minute for a rebuttal as needed [7:56] following our questions students representing the university of michigan's college democrats and [8:01] college republicans organizations will each have the opportunity to ask the candidates a question the [8:06] same two minute answer and one minute rebuttal rules will still apply at the close of our hour [8:11] candidates will have two minutes for closing remarks applause will be limited to two times during the hour [8:16] once at the end of the debate and now as we begin we will start with you mr forlini thank you [8:39] thank you listen uh thank you for having us and welcoming us uh all the students here it's [8:44] awesome to see a bunch of young people involved in this process thank you for the extra second you [8:49] put on the the uh the three minutes i'm a western michigan grad that was important but anyhow uh i i think [8:58] this this is going to come down today we're going to hear about experience about reliability and and [9:03] you know political are we how political are we in a position that's really not supposed to be that [9:08] political and so i think this is going to be a great way to see the contrast between us and and from [9:14] my standpoint you know i've been uh first off i want to thank all the supporters of mine that have [9:19] been working for the last year thank you uh my family who's probably suffered the most or maybe [9:25] benefited the most by me being gone so much over the past year but but anyhow but that's that's really [9:31] what it comes down to is is are we getting together as a state as a country the experience that i think [9:37] i have lends itself to being the secretary of state being a county clerk actually running elections that's [9:43] something that's incredibly important as you go into the secretary of state's office you can't have [9:48] training wheels on to learn how to do this stuff it's really an unbelievable task that you know the [9:53] public is looking at very much so and being reliable you know i've been in the legislature for six years [9:59] and in that time you know i i was there 100 of the time never missed a vote i was always there making [10:05] sure that i was a part of the process representing my district and then you know i think at the very end [10:11] what i've been able to prove through the years is that i am incredibly bipartisan i work together [10:17] with my colleagues on the other side of the aisle have proven it time and time again and that's why i get [10:23] support from both sides and i think that's going to be incredibly important too because as you're [10:27] running elections as you're running the local offices and all the things that represent the [10:32] secretary of state's office it's a working office it's an office that requires you to be there and [10:37] to make things happen and so i look forward to working across the aisle i look forward to working [10:44] with all my colleagues and bringing the secretary of state's office to a very high level of integrity and [10:51] accountability and you please hold your applause thank you lieutenant governor gilcrest thank you so [10:59] much and good evening everybody it is a privilege to be here at the greatest university in the history [11:04] of the world the university of michigan i want to thank moderators and thank our partners for coming [11:10] together for this important conversation about the future of michigan about the future of our democracy [11:16] about how we open wide the doorway of the state of michigan for everyone to be a part of our present and [11:21] future and walk through it together my name is garland gilchrist i am proud to be the lieutenant [11:27] governor of the great state of michigan and for these past seven plus years i have served everyone [11:33] in michigan in every county across both peninsulas each county that i've visited all 83 of them [11:40] at least three times serving the public and serving the people by showing up for them and delivering [11:46] the things that they need and what was important to them to solve problems i've worked with people [11:51] regardless of their party affiliation if you are a michigander i serve you you're a republican i serve [11:56] you if you're a democrat i serve you you're an independent i serve you if you are a voter or a [12:02] non-voter my job has been to deliver for the people of michigan that's what the secretary of state must [12:07] do there are important challenges that the state of michigan's secretary of state will face in the [12:13] coming years when it comes to serving in this position first and foremost we need to make sure that [12:18] we protect our right to vote and our process of voting here in the state of michigan protect it [12:23] from attacks that could come from anywhere from lansing from washington or from a president but [12:29] the authority to run our elections that rests with the people of michigan thanks to the constitution of [12:34] these united states and as the next secretary of state i will stand tall for that right that authority [12:39] and the ability for michiganders to have a say there are also some important pressures that are upon not [12:45] only the people of michigan but also the next secretary of state and i think this role is [12:49] important because people share more with this office than any other state department it knows a [12:54] lot about you that's why that private information must be safe with the next secretary of state [12:59] and protected well i will be michigan's chief privacy officer to make sure that data does not get into [13:04] the hands of a federal government that could use it to target you or get in the hands of a big tech [13:08] company that would use it to build products without your permission that's not our role i will protect your [13:13] data and i can do so because i am the only software developer who has elected statewide in this [13:18] country i know how to protect data better than anyone else and we also need to make sure that we [13:24] can take the dirty dark and corporate money out of our politics and as the secretary of state who will [13:29] oversee michigan campaign finance law i can help bring transparency accountability and close the [13:34] loopholes that lead to that money corrupting our politics and causing people to be cynical now we're [13:39] going to see a contrast certainly here in this debate what you'll see is that i will fight for you and [13:43] stand tall for you and show up for you because this office that front door needs to be open and [13:48] available to all of the people of michigan for us to walk through together proudly and do a brighter [13:54] view so thank you and god bless you i hope i can earn yourself thank you gentlemen we'll move now to [14:00] the question portion and we'll start with you lieutenant governor election integrity has remained a focus [14:05] of voters in recent years how secure are michigan's elections and do you see any ways to improve or reform [14:11] the current system you know i'm an engineer i'm a processor i got two engineering degrees from the [14:14] university of michigan i know how to make things work for people and as lieutenant governor i've spent [14:19] my time doing just that what we have seen is that michigan elections have been proven to be secure [14:25] and to be accurate time and time again we're standing lawsuit after lawsuit after dozens of lawsuits [14:32] we're planning audits after audits after dozens of the people of michigan need to be able to trust that [14:37] process and unfortunately we've seen conspiracy theories run rampant whether it's online or in [14:42] conversations with people who just have cast aspersions and cast out over election results [14:48] people instead should be able to trust public officials that won't placate election deniers [14:52] and instead will make sure that they can focus on what needs to happen which is delivering clear [14:57] fast and accurate election results because that is what where trust comes from but my opponent has [15:04] been doing something different my opponent has hired a january 6th protester to be the poll worker [15:10] recruiter and city and court trainer in macomb county that is the january 6th process to be clear was the [15:16] ultimate election denial that was people trying to overthrow the united states government attack the [15:21] capitol and kill police officers in order to not certify an election that's a rejection of the will of [15:27] the people when they vote but instead i will stand tall for the will of the people and make sure that [15:31] that that will is respected and protected regardless of the outcome this is our job as secretary of [15:36] state and i'll make sure that our elections can work securely and accurately click four leading [15:40] thank you yes you know that i've spent the last five and a half years protecting our elections making [15:46] sure they're they're secure you know i'm the only one up here that is not an election denier my opponent uh [15:53] had a 2017 election that he he was let me just say this he was rightfully upset with his election [16:01] because for for the city clerk and when 33 precincts were not adequately secured where they could not [16:09] be counted he felt disenfranchised and it's people like that that i'm here for i'm here for people [16:15] across the board so that they can get fair elections they can get good elections and you know what and yes [16:21] i do have a diversity of people that work for me and you know what we did a great job taking people in [16:27] bringing them in and understanding the process teaching others the process understanding how [16:33] elections should work because we don't want that misinformation if there is a misinformation [16:38] nor do we want bad elections we want to make sure there's protocols being put in place i'm the only one [16:44] up here that's running an election i'm the only one up here that secured elections i'm the only one [16:47] that up here that made elections more transparent i'm not afraid of the boogeyman i'm willing to go after [16:54] them and make sure that if there's real concerns with our elections i'm willing to step forward and [17:01] say what is it tell me which which of concern to you i'm willing to have that conversation and make [17:07] sure everyone in the room knows that our elections are being done well i support my local clerks one of [17:14] them's here and i support them because i know how difficult their job is i'm there to protect them i'm [17:20] there to make sure that that every election we have they i have their back and we provide the [17:27] election workers we've done all the things for election security 13 different items that we're [17:32] the only one in the state that's gone to that extent make sure that they're transparent believable [17:38] and accountable when one of my clerks decided to uh change the the tabulator settings i went ahead and [17:46] did a recount to make sure it was good thank you thank you what was that extra second your rebuttal [17:52] lieutenant governor my opponent's talked a lot about his experience already i'm sure he will say [17:58] some more things about his experience i want to tell you a little more about it in addition to bringing [18:03] in a january 6 election denier who tried to overthrow the united states government my opponent also has [18:09] been a q anon conspiracy theorist appearing at q anon events in macomb county that's kind of conspiracy [18:14] theories they make this whole system of our elections less safe they make it less secure [18:21] they make more people have more questions instead of answering them my opponent has opened the door [18:26] for the trump administration to be able to have its way with michigan voter data and information by [18:31] willingly handing over order data from macomb county voters that's not the kind of election operation [18:36] excellence that we need in michigan we need people who will protect our process people who will stand up [18:41] and not create the kind of conspiracies that could lead to our election workers our local township [18:46] clerks also having more pressure put upon them with lies being spread about them and your rebuttal [18:52] sure uh yeah so here it is a q anon i'm not even sure what that is but it was in the paper because [18:58] uh a left-leaning group put that out there that i was at a q anon event no i was at a human trafficking [19:03] event against human trafficking back in the distance was something with the letter q i don't even know what [19:09] that meant and and all of a sudden they said hey he was got a q anon out of that no i was at a human [19:14] trafficking and i i mentioned to my opponent at the time the county clerk hey i'll stand together with [19:20] you on this issue this is a serious issue and you're turning into a political folly the answer coming [19:27] back was no comment that's not the kind of leadership that we're looking for and and as far as uh the [19:33] the person i hired in as a is a trainer yeah she is very very uh vocal and not something that i [19:40] necessarily aspire to but listen we're here to make elections better and that was the whole purpose [19:48] is to have people in there that have diversity of opinion and get the right stuff moving forward [19:55] you both presumably have needed to renew driver's licenses vehicle registrations license plates and [20:01] interact with secretary of state branch offices for various reasons as a michigan resident how [20:07] well are these systems running now and what would you do if elected to improve current operations [20:14] thank you that's a great question and that's something that we excelled at in macomb county [20:18] the third largest county in the state of michigan we only took appointments only when i took office [20:23] we were in the middle of covid still in the middle of covid and i says listen we can do better [20:27] it took three weeks to get an appointment we brought that down to currently it's four four [20:32] minutes to get from the time you get in the door to the time you get served with or without an [20:37] appointment and by the time you get served it's under 10 minutes you're taking care of that's public [20:43] service that's what it takes and that's the kind of thing i'm going to bring to every secretary of [20:47] state's office is the ability to streamline systems so that we can take more appointments walk in [20:53] as well as appointments i think the appointment system is great and and but but it's not exclusive [20:58] to that we have a lot of seniors out there that don't you know know how to use my dad's 91 years [21:04] old he goes anthony how do i do this you know his italian accent he doesn't know this right so these are [21:10] the people we have to serve because they're so important and and i think that when we're talking [21:15] about the secretary of state's office no different than the clerk's office we can offer a better service [21:20] to everybody we can treat our employees like gold so they feel good when they come to work our employees [21:25] in macomb county love coming to work they love serving the public and and you know what when i [21:31] told them we were going to shut off voicemail because that is the biggest bad boy of all is [21:37] because people call us goes to voicemail we call them it goes to voicemail and it's a big time suck [21:44] we got rid of that time suck 98 of all of our phone calls that come in the office [21:49] are serviced by somebody they they're cross-trained they get the answer and it's done we spend so far [21:55] fewer time time on the phone than we did before we return over many more customers than we ever did [22:02] before and it's because we've got good processes things that i excel in getting good administration [22:08] so that we can serve the public better lieutenant governor i talked about the secretary of state's [22:14] office as being the front door to experiencing michigan because as you alluded to almost everybody [22:20] has to deal with it like when you're 14 and you get your first id you go through the process of [22:25] learning to become a driver you get your driver's license and you get access to all that is pure [22:30] michigan you get your recreation passport and you can go to any state park in this state and that was [22:36] really important to me personally because like i never visited a state park as a child and then [22:40] you get your ability to have a say as a voter you know by getting your voter registration and [22:44] maintaining that through the secretary of state's office so how this office sees you and supports you and [22:49] responds to you and respects your time is a really important part of how you experience in michigan [22:54] and how to be the best version of yourself i think we've made tremendous progress in these [22:58] last eight years with the appointment system i know that there are michiganders who for different [23:03] reasons are not able to make appointments because something freed up in their work day or they you [23:07] know had a few minutes they wanted to run over to take care of their business at one of the 131 branch [23:12] offices across the state of michigan that means at least one in 83 counties well if you don't have an [23:17] appointment you show up to the office and you've had to drive more than an hour to get there which [23:21] is true in many many counties in the state of michigan you need to be told that you will be served [23:26] not that you got to go sit in the corner and wait or not that you have to go home and make an [23:29] appointment so i'll make sure we support the professionals in this department at those 131 [23:34] offices to make sure they have the resources to serve people on their terms not just on the terms [23:40] of the of the staff of the office to make sure that people can get the services they need quickly [23:44] will expand the use of mobile secretary of states units that drive services to where people are [23:49] parks churches rec centers community centers county fairs to make sure services can be delivered to [23:55] people on site we will build on the foundation of expanding both online services for the things you [24:00] can take care of online and also the self-service kiosk partnerships with many private sector partners [24:05] like meyer will expand those aggressively in the state of michigan so more people can get the services [24:09] on their terms and their community and have the open door be wide open just for them but for laney [24:15] you have another minute for rebuttal if you wish well you know i i think that the key is is to bring [24:20] better service to the people of michigan they don't have to take a half a day off to go see and get [24:25] their driver's license as permission to come forward so i think to to drive or get their license i think [24:31] it's important that we we offer that kind of a service high quality it doesn't really take brick and [24:37] mortar uh like the lieutenant governor said maybe we put them into uh places where people actually [24:43] shop actually do business we don't have to do it you know big brick and mortar but maybe we can do [24:49] more of this and by the way you know if you're having a kiosk do you need to pay an extra fee for [24:55] that you don't have an employee working there that should actually not be a cost so i'm going to get [25:00] rid of that fee at the kiosks and make sure that people if that's how they want to do business they [25:04] can do that business it saved the state money by doing that so why not offer it at the same cost [25:11] that you get at a normal location lieutenant governor if you wish you have another minute [25:18] i mean i think there are some big opportunities to even expand the services that we offer [25:22] as secretary of state i'll give you an example um michigan can be the next state to offer digital [25:28] driver's licenses i'll give you a story about uh why i think this is a good idea i was at a church in [25:35] benton harbor in february and i had such a great time during worship service that i left the church [25:40] but my wallet did not now i've lost a couple wallets in my life but i've never lost a cell [25:47] phone and it would have been really helpful when i had to go and take care of some business and show id [25:52] to have still had access to that license but as a software developer again the only software [25:57] developer elected statewide in this country i know how to build digital systems that work well and work [26:02] for people and having this as a convenient option for those who it makes sense for in their life [26:07] is an example of how technology can make more things possible through the secretary of state's [26:11] office and that's the kind of service that i'm uniquely qualified to deliver the state's new [26:16] online portal to view campaign donations and spending lobbying activity and personal financial [26:20] disclosures of state officials and candidates which the secretary of state oversees has had [26:25] several breakdowns and greatly frustrated people trying to learn more about their government [26:30] is there anything you would have done differently as secretary of state and what [26:34] should be done to improve the system now let's talk about campaign finance overall the [26:39] secretary of state oversees campaign finance law in michigan to put it another way in order for [26:44] you to see what's happening in your politics to see who's spending money and how in your politics [26:49] the secretary of state has to open that window and this transparency website has had significant [26:54] challenges that need to be resolved but as a software developer in fact as a recovering web developer [27:00] i know how to fix websites pretty well and can work with the professionals in the department and [27:04] partners to make sure we can have an accessible and simple framework for people to know what's going [27:09] on this is all part of a broader agenda for me i should do something called the stand tall agenda [27:14] for campaign finance reform t-a-l-l the t stands for transparency that includes fixing the website but [27:21] it also includes going farther by working with the next legislature to make sure that we can end the [27:26] loopholes that enable possible anonymous campaign contributions if you give political money in michigan [27:33] you need to stand on it in public and you also should have to disclose that before people start [27:38] voting but right now there are ways that you don't have to disclose some of the political [27:41] contributions until after people have voted and after the elections i'll fight to get legislative [27:46] change to make that happen the a is for accountability because the secretary of state's [27:50] responsibility is to investigate and go after the bad actors who may have broken campaign finance law [27:55] i want to make sure the secretary has that authority to do so quickly and effectively [27:59] including working in partnership with the attorney general to go after those actors the l is for [28:04] closing the loopholes on the limits we have campaign finance contribution limits for a reason [28:09] but we need to decrease the leverage of the big corporations and the richest people in our state [28:14] in our politics and make sure we close those loopholes because this is about that final l leveling [28:20] the playing field one of the biggest reasons why people check out of our politics and are cynical [28:24] is because they think that all the power and all the decisions rest with the people with the biggest [28:28] checks with the companies with the big with the most money that is wrong democracy means government [28:33] for the people not the corporations and not the wealthy and that's what i'll help deliver [28:38] yeah thank you you know um i campaign finance is something that i actually have done within my office [28:46] we actually set up a software program for all the county countywide uh votes that are there the first [28:52] one of the first electronic ones in the state of michigan we did it at a cost of twenty thousand [28:57] dollars and it works fabulously everybody loves it my treasurer it's driving him nuts since we moved [29:03] to the state system now the problem with the state system it is it is very difficult to look at these [29:10] things my opponent even has a violation on his on his pack because money was going in and out other [29:17] other organizations have said that they've received money or sent money yet it doesn't show in his pack so [29:24] transparency is the key and if he wants to make it transparent you should probably show the bank [29:28] accounts and show where that money went because that is what it is all about i can just about [29:33] identify every one of my donors they're individual people but you can't find every everybody on his [29:41] and that's a problem i think there's over 14 000 people for varying reasons do not show any employment [29:47] information well that's just that's a big hole that needs to be filled that's the kind of stuff that i [29:52] think we need to get put our foot down on and like you said stand tall against that kind of behavior [29:59] that's not the kind of stuff i want to see as the chief election uh uh clerk in the county of macomb [30:08] we look at these things and we try to make sure that we do things right because i know i'm being held [30:12] to a higher accountability than most anybody else and i'm expecting no less from me than from anybody else [30:20] lieutenant governor your rebuttal i'm glad he likes my slogan i do you know daddy long legs here he [30:29] thinks about it a lot that's great um so i i'm really what's important is people need to be able [30:37] to trust the process people can't trust what they can't see so transparency means making sure that the [30:45] windows are open and clear and making sure that you know when there's a problem that it's fixed and [30:51] that's what i'll deliver that kind of problem solving sensibility is the kind of training i got [30:56] on this campus as an engineer as a system builder fixing what's broken and building what's needed [31:02] that's what the people of michigan expect from their systems in state government that's what we [31:06] should expect from our systems of this democracy that's what i have experience delivering only one [31:11] person on this stage has actually built soup to nuts technical systems and made them work for people [31:17] and things that didn't exist before yeah i'll be honest i've never developed one but i've managed [31:24] one and i've made it work and i made it work better than at the state level i keep hearing software [31:29] developer all this listen there's tens of thousands of people in the state of michigan that still haven't [31:34] gotten their tax return back because of some software glitch that is going on at the state level [31:39] and you know all he would have to do i would think if he's that good step in and fix it it's there [31:45] it's ready to be fixed it hasn't been so the key here is listen we can all kind of push around and [31:53] blame and whatnot that's not going to do us any good the bottom line is we have a system that's broke [31:59] i've got a system that works going to the state of michigan i'm going to bring a system that already [32:05] works pennies on the dollar you don't have to spend 10 or 20 million dollars for the system they [32:11] had you don't need to spend that kind of money to make a system that works for everybody we're going [32:16] to move now to questions about your personal records um we're going to start with you clerk [32:21] forlini you recently released a report claiming that 15 non-citizens were on your county's voting [32:26] rules and alerted the federal government for a potential criminal investigation however a review [32:31] by the department of state found that of those 15 three were u.s citizens and eligible voters and of [32:36] those 15 12 had never voted you say you want to dispel myths surrounding election security but how can [32:42] you say that when your office has issued a report flagging legitimate u.s voters as non-citizens [32:47] so that first report that came out was a report that we try to work with the state government [32:52] and they says we're not touching it well all right that's when we came out with it and there was there [32:57] was a few but listen we didn't turn it over to the federal government we turned it over to the state [33:00] by the way dana nestle to her credit recently is prosecuting that individual we said was a non-citizen [33:07] since that point in time yes we are working together with the state with our locals and with the federal [33:13] government to try to understand these databases and what's going on since since last year and a [33:20] half we have found over 50 people that have been on the qualified voter roll over 50 these people are [33:29] putting are we that we the government are putting them in harm's way that potentially they could vote [33:35] we found over five as of as of actually it's six now that have actually had a voting history these [33:44] people are being put in harm's way by the state government we have to end the practice of just [33:48] sending people into the jury pool and having them just having them have to self-report out this is not [33:55] the way to handle government when i'm there i'm going to make sure that list is clean before it goes to [34:00] the to the uh local clerks that they don't get into the jury pool can you imagine if any of these [34:05] people got into the jury pool and and ended up actually sitting sitting on a jury thinking that [34:12] that's a great american thing that they're doing or how about any of these 50 people that we found [34:18] that are in the qualified qualified voter list that we turned over to the state can you imagine if they [34:23] voted these are people that want to be an american and we put them in harm's way thinking oh i can vote [34:29] america what a great place and they vote they put themselves in harm's way to potential deportation [34:35] we have to be more responsible as a government i have done this as a county clerk to help flag these [34:41] down and help the state government clean up their voting rules and i'll continue to do so if you'd like [34:46] to offer a rebuttal so it's really really really important that the next secretary of state is really [35:00] clear about several things one is that it is the law in the state and in this country that if he [35:09] are not citizens they can't vote that has been the law before that is the law today that will continue [35:15] to be the law this is about placating these conspiracies there was a review done but we've [35:25] seen that the system has shown that when people come to vote in michigan the law says they got a show id [35:31] and they do and if they don't have one they make a statement of who they are and they vote on a ballot [35:36] that can't be counted unless they demonstrate who they are that system has worked we don't need to have [35:42] our officials placating and feeding conspiracy theories it's important we have to be able to [35:48] tell the truth and trust our public officials and know that what they say they've checked it what [35:54] they say they can trust it that they say what they say we can trust it it's incredibly important [35:59] especially in this time when so many theories are flowing so freely online so fleely freely on social [36:06] media we need to make sure that our public officials can be able to stand on the truth and that's what i'm [36:12] going to deliver making sure that we're communicating clearly what is true making sure that we are [36:16] removing the barriers that stand between eligible voters and casting ballots making sure we're [36:21] standing up to anyone who would make it more difficult for eligible michiganders to be able to [36:25] cast ballots and that includes attacking the system of mail-in voting that more and more voters choose [36:31] every election cycle that system has been proven to be secure and we need to make sure that it is [36:36] available to the michiganders who seek to choose it because walls that stand between people and casting their [36:41] ballots are walls that need to be broken clerk for leaning your rebuttal yeah real simply a system [36:48] that is broken needs to be fixed you can't hide put your head on the ground and say there's no problems [36:54] that exist listen i think we've got a good system i think as long as protocols are done properly and we [37:00] do things according to the law i think that we have a good system but oftentimes it's not done that way [37:06] the secretary of state's office supplies us with the data with all the data of who was going to be in our [37:13] jury pool and these non-citizens are coming to forces oh my god i can't serve in a jury here's my green [37:18] card no problem we'll take you off and and why should they be put and harassed in that fashion [37:26] 40 of the people that come to jury trial to our jury pool are the ones showing up so 60 aren't and part of [37:35] them are non-citizens that's a waste it's a bureaucratic nightmare for the local clerks for for my people in [37:42] the office we've got to end that and just get citizens the jury pool and on the registration to [37:49] vote thank you lieutenant governor you get another minute it's been demonstrated year after year [37:55] election after election election that this question has been answered and that it is a vanishingly rare [38:05] occurrence for people who are not citizens even attempt to cast ballots we should focus on the numbers [38:11] we need to increase not the numbers we need to decrease the numbers we need to increase [38:15] are making sure that more eligible michiganders choose to vote i want to increase voter turnout [38:19] and voter participation in the state of michigan i think the secretary of state can play a role [38:24] in making sure that more people are confident in the system and willing to participate in the system [38:28] and have all their options available to them in the system that all of our local clerks who run those [38:33] elections and those election workers at the local level have the resources they need to administer [38:37] those elections in a fair way that is accessible and easy to use for as many voters as possible [38:42] but michigan can become a top tier state when it comes to voter turnout thank you lieutenant governor [38:48] this next one starts with you you've said that clerk forlini is an election denier and undermining trust [38:53] in michigan's election system by voicing concerns about election security however as clerk forlini [38:59] mentioned earlier in your 2017 race for detroit city clerk you campaigned extensively on the need to [39:05] restore trust in the city's election system and then later after the election you raise questions [39:11] about your loss to now detroit city clerk janice winfrey how is what you said and did in 2017 [39:18] different from what you're saying clerk forlini is doing because i never questioned who won the [39:22] election that's the biggest error when i talk about election denial i'm talking about the big lie [39:28] that's the lie that donald trump won the election in 2020 which is a lie he did not you know the detroit free [39:34] press asked both of us this question or at least they had a questionnaire that all of us as candidates [39:38] were supposed to fill out my opponent didn't fill that out i'm not exactly sure why but i know that [39:43] it had a question on it he said did joe biden win the election i only need one word to answer that [39:48] question yes but it's clear he may need more than one word to try to explain what happened what we need [39:53] to do is instead have officials who will build trust in this system and build trust into the system so [39:59] what's what what is the case here that we need to think about going forward is making sure that [40:03] questions get answered and making sure that clarity is given from election administrators and that's [40:08] exactly what i'll deliver can you repeat the question because i think it got off track here [40:15] well i think it it goes back to what happened to the 2017 detroit city clerk's election i asked [40:21] lieutenant governor how is what he's saying about you different from what he said i'm the only one up [40:26] here that's never denied the election and let's just take this off the table joe biden was certified as [40:32] president and served four years as president that's simple and that's all that's required [40:38] to know so so when we talk about these these conspiracy theories and whatnot they're not fed by me [40:46] it's i am the person that's actually running the elections improving the elections bringing proper [40:53] protocols when protocols are not followed that perhaps happened in his election i do something about [41:00] it as the county clerk i happen to have two clerks that changed the tabulator settings not for any [41:05] nefarious reasons but i made them during the board of canvassers with my board of canvassers they had to [41:11] redo close to i think it was 50 000 ballots absentee ballots that's called election integrity that's [41:18] bringing transparency that's bringing accountability i'm willing to do it because i'm a leader i do those [41:23] things i just don't complain about it i get something done when there were several people in in one of my [41:28] communities that voted twice we got to the bottom of it together with the local clerk who reported it [41:34] and and brought it to the prosecutor that's what a leader does just i don't bellyache about it i just [41:42] take action and i make it happen and that's that's what you're going to expect out of secretary state's [41:47] office did that bring down the level of confidence in our elections no i believe it brings it up because [41:53] people know there's a new sheriff in town and this guy is not going to let people cheat the elections [42:00] or change the elections and so that is what i my focus is on i know other people like to there's a [42:07] boogeyman out there that they keep talking about at the federal level that's that's not my concern my [42:12] concern is macomb county the state of michigan making sure we have good elections here and let the [42:18] sideshow and the politics take their own place it doesn't have any place in my community lieutenant [42:24] governor i mean the clear challenge is that what is the ultimate election denial bringing on a january [42:36] 6 insurrection leader to train poll workers to be in part of the leadership that is the ultimate election [42:44] denial that is someone who rather than have the congress certify an election tried to overthrow the [42:51] government and attacked our united states capital that is not someone that we can trust that's not [42:57] that is not someone we can trust with our election process election integrity i certainly want to build [43:01] the trust of the people to be able to know that they can trust that person in their life sounds like [43:08] he wants to debate somebody else we have it we have we set up great systems our clerks unanimously love [43:17] the programming because i hire talent i don't hire i hire personalities i don't hire based on their [43:23] political beliefs i hire based on i've got democrats and republicans working for me i look for talent [43:29] and that's why our clerk's office has won uh the two national awards out of 5 000 communities i might [43:36] have said this earlier i don't remember i say so many times out of 5 000 communities across the state [43:40] across the country 28 awards were given we're the only one in michigan to win one only one in the [43:47] country to win two because we bring in good talent and we we charge them with doing the right job [43:55] i'm the boss i take responsibility for whatever happens so you can better believe everything we [43:59] did the training we did was good for democrats and republicans and as far as if she's an election denier [44:07] listen she kept an eye on our stuff to make sure we didn't have a problem thank you gentlemen we're [44:14] going to move now to questions from our student representatives hello my name is alex richmond and i am [44:20] the president of the michigan college republicans thank you both for being here tonight my question is for [44:27] the both of you what role if any should federal monitors play at michigan polls on election day [44:33] and during the early in-person voting period what do you say to people with concerns that federal [44:38] monitors could dissuade some from voting we'll start with you sure sure i'm on record i i said listen [44:45] bring them to macomb the more eyes the better the more eyes the better we have a huge process our clerks are [44:52] way overcharged with responsibilities and if a federal monitor comes in and wants to oversee things [45:00] they're not in charge i'm still the guy in charge that's called leadership when you don't want them [45:05] around that's called you're fearing somebody finding something out i don't fear that i want honesty i want [45:13] true elections now if they come in and impose a problem meaning they're disruptive that's my job to get [45:20] rid of them okay so i don't fear that at all as long as it's according to michigan law the standards [45:28] that we have and making sure our local clerks and whatnot are doing their job right i've got no problem [45:35] with that can you imagine if they're in the there's an election of monitor at his uh at his election where [45:40] he felt like he was cheated maybe they would have found something maybe not i don't know more eyes the [45:46] better lieutenant governor we need to be really clear about who has the authority to run elections [45:54] in the state of michigan not the federal government not the president it is the people of michigan a [46:00] right that is granted to us by the united states constitution we should consistently and continually [46:06] assert that right now yes there's history of federal election monitors being coming to michigan [46:12] and other parts of this country previously we need to make sure that we can trust who's sending them [46:17] this president has been lying about michigan election results more consistently and more often than the [46:25] election results of any other state so as secretary of state i'll be really clear about any rules and [46:33] guidelines making sure that people strictly have to follow and respect michigan law making sure that [46:38] our clerks know what to do if those monitors step out of a monitoring role and try to do more than [46:45] they're allowed to do that's my responsibility to make sure we can protect this process because in order [46:50] to trust it people need to know that there's no one messing around with it and so my job as secretary of [46:55] state will be to maintain that integrity maintain that clarity maintain that authority to make sure [46:59] that people know who's running their elections and who's not the secretary of state's job is to do [47:04] that now what's what's also really important is this kind of federal interference potentially this kind [47:10] of meddling is something that has sown a lot of distrust amongst people that is why we need to be clear [47:17] about who's in charge and where and in michigan it's the secretary of state clerk for leaner your rebuttal [47:23] well i think he's agreeing with me i think he's afraid of our current president maybe he's got [47:29] reason to i don't fear any of that because i know who the boss is i'm the leader of my community it's [47:35] going to be by our rules the rules of the state of michigan and that's how we're going to abide by [47:39] that it has nothing to do with who the president is but he's going to be in office for two more years [47:45] you can't fear that the federal government the rules are the rules there's going to be a new [47:48] president there's going to be a new secretary of state there's going to be all this listen we just need [47:51] to abide by rules of michigan i am the leader of macomb county the secretary of state oversees the [47:59] entire state and the local clerks they are the real heroes here they're the ones that are actually [48:04] running the election on the street level and so to that extent my clerks are okay with if somebody was [48:12] there as long as they're not interfering that holds true for any election monitor or worker we need [48:18] to make sure everyone's properly trained we've done that in macomb i don't fear any of this i welcome [48:23] it lieutenant governor your rebuttal i mean my eyes are just wide open as to what i see from this [48:29] president trying to pressure and make it more difficult for people in michigan for people in [48:33] rural michigan to be able to cast mail-in ballots now thankfully that was stopped by the supreme court [48:37] and over these next two years while he remains president we need a secretary of state who will remain [48:42] vigilant and will make sure they do not take away that ability or that for voting by mail to be [48:47] convenient we need to make sure the next secretary of state is not willingly handing over the private [48:53] data and information of the people of michigan to this president and to this federal government to [48:57] use to target people to intimidate them and to potentially harm them that is my responsibility [49:03] to stand in that gap to make sure that no entity can come at the people of michigan without going [49:08] through first the secretary of state where i'll protect them now our next student question good evening [49:15] to both of you um my name is stella cammerlingo and i'm one of the co-chairs of the college democrats [49:19] here at the university of michigan thank you both for being here tonight this question is for the [49:24] both of you let's fast forward to 2028 one of you is secretary of state there's a close race for [49:30] president in michigan the next day you get calls from top people in your political party pressing you [49:36] to take actions to help your party's candidate what do you do lieutenant governor my job is to respond to [49:43] the people of michigan the administration of an election is not a partisan exercise and it never will be [49:49] under my watch my job will be to make sure the process is clear it's accurate it's secure and [49:54] it's fair and i will count those ballots now look we've seen this president actually literally call [49:59] secretaries of state like he did in 2020 when he called in georgia and we saw one secretary of state [50:04] say no we've also seen this president call secretaries of state in other parts of the country [50:08] and ask him to purge voters ask him to close polling locations and we've seen those election leaders [50:13] say yes well regardless of who calls i will respond to the people of michigan make sure the process is [50:18] accurate that votes are counted clearly and fairly and that we get the results that reflect the will [50:23] of the voters and the votes of the voters and nothing more that's not a political exercise for me [50:30] sure it sounds like he's he's uh not not a he's afraid to take a leadership position i am going to tell [50:37] you 2028 is going to come whoever takes office at the beginning of 2027 that day is the day you're [50:45] working on the 2028 election you can't get into this role with training wheels on deciding how to do [50:51] this and have a lot of good rhetoric you need to know how to take action action that i've already [50:56] taken in macomb county things that we need to do to bring transparency and believability so when we get [51:01] to 2028 we've anticipated the problems of the past corrected the problems of the past made it more [51:09] transparent and better for all the citizens of michigan they need to be able to see how their [51:15] whole elections are happening and by the way you know there's there's a bid out right now for new [51:20] tabulators and new technology and we need to take a hard look at that make sure that we bring the right [51:25] equipment in so that people believe the elections moving forward i anticipated my elections [51:32] that i had from 2021 on i anticipated the problems i anticipated the fact that we need more election [51:40] workers i trained over 400 individuals recruited over 800 people to be involved in our elections in [51:46] macomb county i've done that pre-work so that when one of my clerks actually called me the night before [51:52] the election and says hey i need 35 election workers tomorrow can you help me yeah we did help them [51:58] because we took proactive measures we watermarked our ballots hash validations with our with our clerk [52:05] so if anything from the outside comes into these these tabulators we're ready we're ready to respond [52:12] and know what's going on you can't wait till 2028 to say oh i missed that one i don't sleep at night [52:19] waiting up for the elections making sure we thought of everything and you have to show up for work to do [52:25] that and that's what i've done lieutenant governor rebuttal i think the question was whether you [52:30] respond to political pressure from your political party my opponent did not answer that question [52:35] i answered it very clearly that no i won't stand up to the political pressure from anyone when it [52:39] comes to doing the work of the people of michigan that's what i've done for these last seven plus [52:44] almost eight years show up for people regardless of whether they were democrats or republicans or [52:48] independents regardless of whether they were voters or not voters my job was to deliver [52:53] systems that work for them that's what i'll do with secretary of state but they so they can trust [52:56] their election results to know that that is not a political exercise or enterprise it's a practice [53:01] of these systems and making them work for people so that the will of the people of michigan is [53:04] reflected in our election results yeah there was a lot there said that meant nothing the bottom line [53:11] is i do stand up and i do i am the guy in charge i've said that over and over again and i've proven it [53:18] you have to show up for work to do that you know i gotta say this lieutenant governor is an awesome [53:24] responsibility something something that he i'd be incredibly proud to have been the lieutenant [53:29] governor over the last eight years the problem is you've seen it's been widely reported in 2025 [53:35] he was out of 100 days he only showed up six he wasn't there 94 of the time how are you going to [53:42] stand up to somebody if you don't know what your job is if you're not willing to put the work in [53:46] that's a problem when i was in the legislature i was in there a hundred percent of the time [53:51] i was there i never missed i remember buying expensive tickets to get back here during a polar [53:57] vortex come back to michigan because i didn't want to miss only to find out they canceled because nobody [54:03] else made it but uh it doesn't matter that was my responsibility and my job gentlemen we have time [54:09] for one more question before closing statements you'll each have the chance for a two-minute answer but [54:14] there will be no rebuttals under the michigan constitution voters can bring forward [54:19] ballot questions which legislators could adopt or michiganders can approve of at the ballot box [54:24] the process of reviewing signatures has since come under fire in recent months after an effort [54:29] to require michigan voters to prove they are us citizens failed to make the ballot does the process [54:36] for the public to amend their constitution and laws via ballot proposal need reform and what should [54:43] look what should that look like if so clerk ferlini we've seen ballot proposals through the years [54:50] where it's just a simple majority and that changes the constitution i think that's i think that's [54:57] something that needs to be looked at that should be a little bit more than just a simple majority [55:01] what that percentage is is going to be up to the legislature if they can ever get something like [55:05] that passed so the question is would i change anything about that ballot proposal uh you know the [55:12] constitution is is a is a vibrant document right it's it's moving all the time it's changing all the time [55:19] and i guess i go back to that statement if we're going to do it that you know you got the signature [55:24] the signature process that we go through we saw it with the citizens only initiative where uh they [55:30] turned it in five and a half months earlier and they waited till the last week the secretary of [55:34] state's office waited till the last week to say oh they had over 260 000 more signatures than they [55:40] needed oh you didn't have enough sorry well you can rebut it but you only got a couple days to do that [55:47] they checked a thousand signatures they could have done that over a weekend early on and let this [55:53] group know if it was bad the process is not transparent how they're looking at these signatures [55:59] it is not transparent at all so it's bringing disbelief to many americans that felt like you know they [56:05] had over 700 000 signatures you know that's 10 of the voting population that's a big contingency that got [56:14] disenfranchised i think that process is wrong that needs to be publicly available so that people know [56:20] how this process was done from a through z if they're disqualifying names it should be part of [56:26] a public process that everyone's looking at it shouldn't be done behind you know in the darkness [56:31] of night and and the results given just before they knew they didn't have enough time to fix it or to [56:38] look at it and when they brought signatures forward and notarized signatures they says no we're going to [56:45] believe the qvf we're not going to believe the notarized signatures that people said that's time lieutenant [56:50] governor i'll address this question first let me talk about the fact that the all of the lieutenant [56:54] governor is to show up for the people of michigan everywhere when they need them that includes [56:58] showing up in lansing for 100 of the tie-breaking votes that i needed to cast it includes showing [57:03] up for the people of michigan and northern michigan and alpino when we had historic ice storms or [57:07] tornadoes in gaylor opening child care facilities in battle creek or opening small business small [57:12] business support centers across the upper peninsula this is about standing tall for people when they need [57:17] you where they need you and how they need you that's what i've delivered the secretary of state [57:21] needs to do the same across every county across all 131 branch offices it's critical that the secretary [57:26] of state understands the people of michigan and shows up for them now when it comes to this question [57:30] of how we amend our constitution we have a robust process people have to earn the trust and respect and [57:37] support of people across the state of michigan they have to go into community after community [57:41] they have to gather signatures and those signatures should be gathered through conversation and connection and [57:46] understanding and once that process is done and that you've passed enough signatures to pass the [57:52] threshold for passing that is when you then present that for an opportunity to be understood and [57:56] considered and you know what if you mess up the signature gathering process then you need to do it [58:00] better that doesn't mean the process is broken that means that somebody didn't get something right [58:05] changing the constitution is a big deal that's why it's hard that's why it requires putting in the work [58:11] and putting in the time and going all over michigan to do it i respect the people and the campaigns and the [58:17] organizations that step up all the time to try to come up with good ideas to put forward to the [58:21] people of michigan i hope people continue to do that because that is direct participation in this [58:25] democracy and as i said i think the best version of michigan's democracy is one that includes full [58:31] participation where everyone gets to have a say everyone gets to participate that's what the best [58:36] version of michigan is that's what being the best version of yourself a citizen a resident a voter means [58:43] showing up and having your say and pitching in and voting when it comes thank you gentlemen we're [58:49] going to move now to closing statements lieutenant governor you will be going first i want to thank [58:53] y'all for for for having me i want to thank our media partners i want to thank the moderators i want [58:57] to thank the college democrats and the college republicans for participating in this forum and everyone [59:01] who's here in person and online look i i love the university of michigan college is an amazing place [59:07] it's a place often where people come to discover and even reinvent themselves and understand they come to try to [59:12] figure out what their path is going to be going forward sometimes they reflect i want to be really [59:18] clear about the experience of my opponent and what the difference is therefore in those experiences [59:25] my opponent is someone who has run elections in macomb county and done so by building a team that [59:29] included someone who was the ultimate election denier on the january 6th protester who tried to overthrow [59:34] the united states government it's some someone who has placated election deniers with audits that he knew [59:39] were not necessary that he knew were not going to prove anything and make anything better for [59:44] macomb voters but instead ran those audits anyway really told people that it wasn't going to be [59:49] someone that has been coordinating with the trump justice department and has handed over macomb [59:52] county voter data willingly to that has violated the privacy of the people that he served but i'm going [59:58] to be a secretary of state who stands up for the people of michigan and make sure that we can protect [1:00:03] our ability and our right to run our elections that make sure the people of michigan can cast their [1:00:08] ballots with confidence and have them counted and certified with confidence i'm someone who will stop the [1:00:13] federal government from infringing upon that i'm someone who will be the chief privacy officer of [1:00:17] the state of michigan recognizing that it is so important that your privacy is protected when you [1:00:21] give information to the government you should trust the government to keep it and use it for its purpose [1:00:26] not hand it over to the trump administration not hand it over to a big tech company that would use [1:00:30] it to take advantage of you and target you and intimidate you and i'm someone who's going to make [1:00:35] sure that we can clean up our politics by getting that dirty and dark money out of it by working on [1:00:39] building a campaign finance system with the legislative partners to make sure that people [1:00:42] can see the money going through their politics we can clean it up so people can trust it and [1:00:46] participate and walk through the front door of michigan to be the best version of themselves [1:00:50] thank everyone for being here and i hope i can earn your support to be the next secretary of state [1:00:54] thank you clerk for leaning thank you again uh i'll echo that thank you everybody thank you [1:00:59] for all the questions excellent questions that you've asked of us this is going to be a critical time for [1:01:05] this office the secretary of state's office is an office it's a working office it's an office that [1:01:10] requires it's going to require a lot of time and effort to make sure things are done properly [1:01:15] 2028 election is right around the corner when we take office you have to hit the ground running [1:01:22] like i said you can't walk in with training wheels and say all right how does this work i think i've [1:01:27] proven today we have done things in macomb to improve our elections we did an audit early on because i [1:01:34] wasn't afraid of it this is an election that a friend of mine a democrat that was running the [1:01:40] office a clerk at the time uh that i ran against and won and here i am doing an audit that might [1:01:46] prove that i didn't win but i wasn't afraid of that i wasn't afraid of the results when i was a [1:01:52] what i was looking for is to bring peace to this whole system and what i found was protocols that [1:01:58] weren't being followed across the board and i was able to take that information because i wasn't [1:02:04] afraid of it and use it to improve our elections that's what the next secretary of state needs to [1:02:11] be a not be afraid to take bold action to be able to make sure the voting rules are clean to make sure [1:02:17] our clerks are properly trained to make sure they have the resources that they need i'm a clerk i [1:02:24] understand the struggles our current secretary of state never was a clerk never ran elections and so [1:02:29] they don't understand the struggles that our clerks are going through i'm i've been a legislator i know how [1:02:34] to get things done through the legislature and and that's what we're going to move forward together [1:02:41] to make michigan better and i think it requires a lot of time and effort something that i'm willing [1:02:47] to give and i'm willing to say we can make michigan better we can make it more bipartisan and put all [1:02:53] this policy or this political rhetoric to the side thank you so much everybody you guys have been [1:02:58] awesome every one of you thank you we'll have to leave it there for the evening gentlemen thank you both [1:03:03] yes you can applaud thank you both for being here and again thank you to the gerald ardford school of [1:03:19] public policy for sponsoring tonight's debate additional thanks to gongwer and state affairs [1:03:23] for co-moderating the evening and to the students representing the university of michigan's chapters [1:03:28] of college democrats and college republicans for their questions we hope this evening's programming [1:03:32] was informational and helpful when it comes to deciding how you cast your vote in the november [1:03:35] third midterm elections thank you for tuning in or attending and good night