Liz Oyer Testified at Todd Blanche's Hearing—Here's What You Didn't See

[0:00] Hi, everyone. As you can see, I'm talking to my friend Liz Oyer, the former DOJ pardon attorney [0:06] who's done such a terrific job of educating us about the law, about the Department of Justice, [0:13] about the way government is supposed to work. And she testified today in the Todd Blanche [0:20] confirmation hearing. He's going through hearings to be attorney general. And Liz [0:27] told me she was, well, I learned that she was being asked to testify. And she did so this morning [0:35] in her Elle Woods pink blazer. And obviously, we're excited to hear firsthand from Liz what the [0:45] experience was like, and also how the confirmation hearings are going, what she's seen, etc., etc. [0:51] So I guess first and foremost, Liz, how did it go? How did you feel? And just tell us a little bit [1:00] about what it was like. Yeah, I mean, on a personal level, it was just really exhausting. I was as I [1:07] was just I was mentioning before we jumped on here, I you know, I was really anxious about going in [1:12] there and testifying. And it's because it's essentially a decision I made to take on one [1:19] of the most powerful people in the country. And I did it because I felt like it was really important [1:25] for our country for our future that I get up there and share my story, share my perspective [1:31] and and try to bring some sense into this process. But it was really scary. I mean, I really haven't [1:38] slept for the last couple of days. I've been thinking about what will he do to me if he gets confirmed [1:45] and I'm the person who spoke up against him. What's he going to do to me and my family? [1:51] He is somebody who put my family through the ringer once and, you know, we got through it. And this [1:58] time it could be worse because he's got nothing left to lose. He will be confirmed in that position. [2:03] So I'm honestly, you know, it just made me genuinely incredibly nervous and scared to go in there [2:12] and share my story. How did your family? Was your family encouraging? I know you have a son [2:20] who's looking at colleges and I know your husband. I don't know your husband, but I know you're married [2:27] and I'm curious how they felt about what you did. They were incredibly supportive of it. They were [2:33] actually both there. My sister and my good friend were there as well. So if you see any of the clips [2:40] from it, the four people sitting behind me are my family and friend, and it was great to have them [2:45] there. I think my son actually was a really interesting learning experience for him as a [2:49] 17 year old. I think he was actually a little bit dismayed by how these things actually go. I mean, [2:55] he said to me afterwards that he was just shocked by the questions that I was asked by some of the [3:00] Republican senators, which were just so inappropriate and really performative. And it was just interesting [3:08] to see through his eyes as a 17 year old what he made of how our Congress actually works. It's a lot [3:15] of grandstanding and performance theatrics that really aren't intended to get to any truth. [3:21] Yeah. Well, talk about some of the questions and some of the Republicans who challenged you the most [3:27] for people who, whether for whatever reason, maybe they were working or taking care of their families, [3:33] weren't able to watch the hearings. Yeah. So the way the whole thing worked yesterday was Todd [3:39] Blanche's testimony. The whole day was devoted to him and the senators all got a turn to ask him [3:45] questions. And then today there was a panel of outside witnesses. The majority got to select three [3:51] witnesses and the minority, which is the Democrats, brought in two witnesses. I was one of those witnesses [3:56] along with Danny Bensky, who is an incredibly brave and thoughtful Epstein survivor who shared her story [4:05] with the committee as well. And the panel format allows each witness to make an opening statement [4:11] for five minutes and then allows the members of the committee, so Republicans and Democrats, [4:16] to go around and question the witnesses for five minutes and they can decide how they want to spend [4:22] their time, which witnesses they want to ask questions of. And I got a lot of questions. A lot [4:28] of the questions of the Republicans were aimed at me, I think, because my testimony was damaging to [4:36] Todd Blanche's credibility and because they felt like they needed to do everything they could to try [4:42] to discredit me as sort of like a Biden administration partisan, which isn't true. My job at the Justice [4:49] Department, as I've spoken a lot about, is a nonpolitical career position where I serve under [4:55] any president, regardless of party. But that was really the focus of the questioning of me. [5:01] In fact, there were some exchanges. Todd Blanche sort of said that your account of how and why you were [5:09] fired wasn't true. Tell us about that and the discrepancy in his view. And, you know, I thought your testimony [5:21] was incredibly powerful. You were very direct, as you always are. And you called him out for lying repeatedly. [5:29] And you gave, you know, you had the receipts, too, right? [5:32] Yeah, he lies very casually when it's convenient. Yesterday in his testimony, he sort of selectively [5:39] answered questions based on what he felt like he wanted to talk about. He would say, [5:45] I'm not allowed to talk about that. And then he'd turn around and talk about something the next minute [5:50] that sort of the same principles apply. But regarding my firing, he gave an explanation that I've never [5:58] heard before. Yesterday, he said that he fired me because of recommendations concerning clemency that [6:04] I made during the Biden administration. I've been litigating with the Justice Department for over a [6:10] year over my firing. And they have said in the past that the facts are not in dispute. And Mr. Blanche [6:17] made up sort of out of thin air this new explanation that he provided about firing me because of the [6:22] recommendations I made at the request of the previous president. Doesn't really make any [6:28] sense. It was seemingly made up on the spot. But that became then the focusing on the focus of [6:35] the questions I got today from a couple of Republican senators. [6:40] And John Hawley and Eric Schmidt in particular, right? [6:43] Yeah, yes, yes. It sounds like he did some of it. [6:45] So tell us about their questions. And Julia, my producer, and, you know, we've been covering [6:51] your testimony and she always prepares me to talk to you, Liz, said that that they didn't [6:57] really give you an opportunity to answer the questions, which was must have been doubly [7:02] frustrating for you. [7:04] Yeah, it was definitely a strategy. So I got some sort of probing questions from Senator [7:08] Grassley, who's the chairman of the committee first. And I think I think I kind of nailed my [7:14] answers there. I answered them pretty well. So I think I think that the other two decided, [7:20] well, we can't let her speak. We just need to talk over her for five minutes because she [7:24] might actually be able to answer us or explain her or herself. And we don't want her to do [7:29] that. We just want to grandstand, make our point, make it sound like she is a Biden partisan [7:35] hack. And they were able to basically just speak over me for five minutes without letting [7:42] me actually respond in any way to what they said. [7:45] And what was so shocking to me, after Josh Hawley concluded his questioning, [7:52] Questioning. [7:53] His questioning, yeah. [7:54] Greenstanding. [7:55] I said something to the effect, I assume those were rhetorical questions and you're not [7:59] actually looking for an answer from me because, you know, he didn't give me any opportunity [8:03] to answer. And he got angry and did some more performative theatrics. And then he turned [8:08] off his mic. And after he turned off his mic, he mouthed to me very conspicuously, you're [8:16] a disgrace. [8:20] Wow. [8:21] Yeah. Yeah. Turned the mic off. And then in, you know, exaggerated lip movements, [8:28] mouthed, you're a disgrace to me. As if the hearing was about me. I mean, the hearing was [8:33] about Todd Blanche, the person who has disgraced the role of acting attorney general, Todd Blanche. [8:39] I didn't get any questions about Todd Blanche from any of the Republicans on the committee. [8:45] I got only questions about me and about the Biden administration. [8:50] So clearly, as you said earlier, Liz, the whole point was to discredit your testimony, [8:57] discredit your observations, discredit your lived experience. And so it wouldn't be, [9:05] you know, used against Todd Blanche. And there was plenty of ammunition in your testimony [9:11] to be used against Todd Blanche. I'm curious how you think the rest of the hearings [9:18] have gone. Obviously, I know what close attention you're paying to this. How do you think Todd Blanche [9:25] is doing? I know. And then we, of course, have to talk about Tom Tillis, who said he is not going [9:33] to support Todd Blanche unless he meets with the Epstein victims. But before we tackle that, [9:40] just in general, overall, how do you think the hearings are going? [9:43] Well, I think for Blanche, it went fine yesterday because none of the Republican senators really pressed [9:50] him on any of the challenging issues. I mean, the Democrats made clear that they are all going to [9:55] vote against him. And there was some hope that a couple of Republicans might not vote for moving his [10:02] nomination out of the committee. He can only lose, well, he can't lose any Republican votes in the [10:08] committee. He needs all of them to vote for him. [10:10] Just one person, one person will derail his nomination, right? One Republican. [10:15] That's right. And there's this committee of 21 people now. The Republicans have 11. He needs to [10:22] get a majority vote to go out of the committee. And so they can't lose a single Republican vote. [10:28] The two Republicans on the committee who were considered to be possibly persuadable are Tillis [10:32] and Cornyn. Cornyn asked Blanche some really hard questions yesterday about the slush fund settlement [10:38] agreement. And it suggested that he is really thinking hard about whether he's going to support [10:44] Blanche's nomination. So that was probably the most significant of any questioning. [10:49] Tillis seems like, with the caveat about the Epstein issue, which we'll get to, [10:53] like he's mostly satisfied with how Blanche is answering the questions. In fact, he told him [10:58] yesterday that he thought he did a very nice job. So I'm not holding out a lot of hope at this point [11:03] that Senator Tillis will vote against Blanche. It seems like Senator Cornyn is really the one to watch [11:09] right now. And folks may remember that Cornyn has been in the Senate for a really long time [11:14] and Donald Trump just endorsed a primary challenger, Ken Paxton. [11:19] Yes, who primaried Cornyn. He's not going to be reelected because he lost this primary race to [11:26] Ken Paxton, who was endorsed by Donald Trump. And now there's what people are calling the YOLO caucus, [11:33] the you only live once caucus. These senators who are kind of at the end of their term and [11:37] they're on their way out the door. He's one of them. And so there's some hope that he might think [11:42] critically about Blanche's nomination and possibly vote against him. And it seems like, in his mind, [11:48] the most important issue is this corrupt settlement funds that he agreed to, which a federal judge [11:54] actually ruled this week was a collusive, unlawful settlement agreement. [12:00] And there's some dispute, I guess, Liz, is this fund still in existence? Is it not? And I think [12:06] you talked about this in your testimony, too, or if I'm not mistaken. Tell us that. So I know that judge [12:14] ruled against it, but what is the status of the fund? And he didn't rule against allowing Donald [12:21] Trump and his family to never be investigated by the IRS, right? Where does that stand? [12:27] Yeah. So the legal status of the settlement fund is now really unclear. This court essentially said [12:33] that Todd Blanche betrayed his duty to zealously represent the interests of the United States when [12:40] he signed the settlement agreement. But the judge did not go so far as to say that the settlement [12:45] agreement is unenforceable. It's a little bit unclear now what the legal status is. Blanche was [12:50] doing all kinds of gymnastics to try to say yesterday in his hearing that the settlement fund [12:55] is dead and it's not moving forward. But there's still a written contract that says this is a legal [13:01] agreement that has been reached between Trump and his sons and the United States government. So [13:07] from a legal perspective, there's a valid agreement in place. And regardless of what Blanche is saying, [13:14] Donald Trump could try to enforce the settlement agreement at any time or one of his sons could. [13:19] We know that he's very unpredictable and doesn't really think about what's in the interests of the [13:24] country. So Trump could say any day, Todd, you're going to enforce that settlement and get me my, [13:29] you know, $1.776 billion fund and get me my tax audits dropped. And, you know, it would legally, [13:38] legally, he would have that claim. So the thing that was troubling to Cornyn was like, is this fund [13:46] dead or not? But I think that, you know, going a little deeper than that, the real issue is that Todd Blanche [13:52] is somebody who is so devoted to Donald Trump that he would sign this thing in the first place. [13:57] It's an agreement that does not benefit the American people at all. We cannot pursue any [14:04] claims against Donald Trump if he doesn't pay his taxes or if his corporations don't pay taxes or if [14:09] his sons don't pay their taxes. It essentially gives them a pass to conduct their businesses [14:15] without following the laws and to enrich themselves further at the expense of American taxpayers. [14:22] There is no reason to sign that agreement. If you're the attorney general, you're supposed to be [14:27] looking out for the interests of the United States. And the fact that he signed it in the first place, [14:31] whether or not it's still enforceable, is really beside the point. I think it just says a lot about [14:36] his character and his qualifications to be attorney general. [14:39] By the way, Major G, hello, said John Cornyn was a former judge. Is that—I didn't know that. [14:48] I didn't realize that either, actually. [14:51] Yeah. We'll double-check that, Julia. Just not that we don't believe you, Major G. We just want to [14:56] verify that. So let's go back to the Tom Tillis-Epstein victims thing. So that sort of puts [15:06] Todd Blanche between a rock and a hard place, right? First of all, tell us a little bit before [15:13] we talk about that about the Epstein victim who testified and some of the things that she said [15:19] and what you thought—how powerful you thought her testimony was. [15:25] Yeah. Dani Benski, who testified today, is just amazing. And she had accompanying her a whole group [15:31] of Epstein survivors who are all just really brave women who have decided to come forward and demand [15:37] the accountability that they are not getting from the Justice Department. And she expressed a lot [15:43] of frustration with Todd Blanche's leadership because he has not been responsive to requests [15:49] from the victims to meet with him. He has not been proactive in trying to get accountability for [15:56] the victims. Dani Benski said something to the effect that she thought this is the type of case [16:01] that a prosecutor would be salivating over because there are so many victims and there are such horrendous [16:06] crimes that were committed. And she couldn't understand why Todd Blanche was not chomping at the [16:12] bit to investigate and find the people who harm these women and prosecute them. And she also couldn't [16:18] understand why he hadn't agreed to meet with the survivors. Blanche was asked about that yesterday at the [16:24] hearing from senators on both sides. And he really was doing a lot of gymnastics once again to sort of [16:32] avoid committing to meeting with them. He said at one point, well, I can't meet with them because [16:36] they don't have lawyers. And then he said, I can't. And didn't he say they can meet with the DOJ staff, [16:42] but not him? Well, I don't think that. Yeah. Why? He said, like, I have an assistant here who [16:48] handles these kinds of things and they can meet with her. And then he sort of pivoted to, well, [16:54] they do have lawyers, so I can't meet with them. I don't know if it's that they do or that they [16:57] don't. That's a problem. But he was all over the place in terms of answering this. But what [17:01] was clear is that he would not commit to meeting with these victims. And then in the middle of the [17:07] hearing today, Tom Tillis, who had been out of the room for much of the proceeding, kind of popped in [17:12] and he said, like, I have something to say. And the thing that he wanted to say is that he has [17:17] decided that he wants to get to yes on Blanche's nomination, but he cannot vote yes unless Blanche [17:25] meets with the Epstein survivors. So he basically gave Blanche an ultimatum. You need to meet with [17:31] these women in order to get my vote and you need to do it before the vote, which is possibly going [17:37] to happen two weeks from now. And that's fine. I mean, that's good that Senator Tillis thinks that [17:44] Blanche should have this meeting. But why does it take a gun being put to his head to get [17:49] him to do the right thing? And also, it could be such a pro forma meeting, like, hello, we're [17:57] working on your case, like without any kind of even the beginning of a resolution for these [18:04] victims. Yeah, I mean, he doesn't exude, Blanche does not exude any empathy or warmth when he [18:11] talks about the case or the victims in public settings, including the hearing. So he may get [18:16] into a room with these women and really be very disappointing to them. I don't know. I don't know [18:22] what the meeting will be like when it takes place. It sounds like it may be happening this afternoon [18:27] that he's meeting with the survivors of Capitol Hill. Yes, there have been some, his office is saying [18:34] that he's on the Hill having some other meetings, which are probably follow up on the confirmation [18:39] hearing with senators who will be voting. And it sounds like he's his office is now trying to [18:44] coordinate a meeting with the survivors at the instance of Senator Tom Tillis. So basically, [18:51] what we know about Blanche is that he's willing to do whatever it takes to get this job as attorney [18:55] general. He's not willing to do the right thing because it's right, but he's willing to do it if he [19:00] has to to get what he wants, which is to be the attorney general. [19:04] You know, I watch Adam Schiff question him and it was brutal. Basically, he said, what [19:12] happened to you? You know, as a former prosecutor for the Southern District of New York, right? You [19:17] know what the person you used to be, the lawyer used to be. In fact, I I put it on my stories [19:23] just because I thought it was so powerful. Who else do you think did a really good job on the [19:30] Democratic side of kind of exposing Todd Blanche, his lies and and and the fact that he is slavishly [19:39] devoted to and will do whatever Donald Trump tells him to do? [19:45] Oh, geez. I mean, I thought that all of it. There's just so much material with Blanche that [19:51] it's hard to choose who stood out in particular. I mean, there were many lines of inquiry that are [19:56] really pretty damning in terms of his qualifications to be the attorney general. He was asked about his [20:02] firings of career lawyers at the Justice Department. He was asked about the corrupt meeting with [20:08] Ghislaine Maxwell and then orchestrating her prison transfer. He was asked about the revenge [20:14] prosecutions he's been pursuing on behalf of Donald Trump. [20:18] Like James Comey, for example, Letitia James. [20:23] Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And he really doesn't have any compelling answers whatsoever to any of those [20:28] questions. He has expressed this view that in legal speak, it's called the unitary executive [20:34] theory. It's the idea that the president is above the entire executive branch. So whatever he says [20:40] goes. And if the president says, prosecute my enemy, you've got to do it. And Blanche embraced [20:45] that as law. I mean, that's his belief is that Donald Trump has the power to dictate what he [20:51] does or does not do. And he did nothing to dispel the notion that he is totally beholden to Donald [20:57] Trump. He did actually say at one point, I'm not a yes man, but he really provided no evidence to [21:04] support the idea that he's not a yes man. I think we all know that he is. [21:09] So he couldn't give one example of when he disagreed with Donald Trump and told him, [21:14] no, sir, I can't do that. Or I, you know, that's not what the law says, blah, blah, blah. [21:21] Yeah. He he did not give one example of a time when he has disagreed with Donald Trump or [21:27] persuaded him not to do something corrupt and illegal. [21:32] I'm going to let Liz go in just a few minutes because she's exhausted and badly needs a nap and [21:39] probably a cocktail. But if you all have questions for her, please put them in the comments. And [21:47] I want to do some questions from social. Did you sense that the testimony was getting through? [21:52] Did you sense that your testimony was getting through to the Republicans in the room? It sounds [21:59] to me like John Cornyn seemed persuadable. Yeah. So I would love to say that I felt like my [22:06] testimony was getting through, but I don't I didn't feel like it was getting through to the [22:11] Republicans. They're actually the way these hearings work is kind of odd. The senators pop in and out of [22:16] the hearings. And when I spoke, John Cornyn was not there. He had left the hearing. A lot of the [22:23] Republicans. That's so weird. Why do they why don't they stay for the whole hearing? It's so important. [22:30] Yeah, I think it's incredibly odd as well. I mean, there were times when really the only people in [22:36] the room were Chairman Grassley and Ranking Member Durbin and the rest of the seats were just empty. [22:43] There were staff that were sitting up there kind of in lieu of the members of Congress, but they [22:47] pop in and out and many of them pop in to ask their questions and then they leave immediately after. [22:54] That's what Josh Hawley did and Senator Eric Schmidt, both of whom really just did their best to rake me [23:01] over the coals. They did that and then they were immediately flew out of their seats and were out of [23:08] the room. I got the distinct sense that none of these folks were trying to learn anything new. They don't [23:15] really they're not open minded. They're not trying to hear from the witnesses. They've made up their minds and [23:20] they're trying to create a record for their voters that, you know, shows that they asked hard questions or they [23:29] performed well in front of the cameras. And that's really what it's about. I think that it really did genuinely [23:37] seem like during Blanche's testimony, Senator Cornyn was asking searching questions and thinking about the issues. But he, [23:46] like I said, was not present for much of the hearing today. And none of the other Republicans who are in [23:52] the room really seemed to be giving it any serious thought, sadly. [23:57] That's disappointing. Someone asked, are you concerned about retaliation or backlash from the White House? [24:03] You talked at the beginning of our conversation, Liz, about how anxious you were. And if Todd Blanche is in [24:09] fact confirmed and becomes the attorney general, that you're worried about what that might mean. So tell me, [24:19] tell us about that. [24:21] Yeah, I'm actually really genuinely scared about that. Blanche is already one of the most powerful [24:27] men in the country, and he stands to become even more powerful if he's confirmed as the attorney general. [24:34] He's got the resources of the entire Justice Department behind him. And I don't know what he [24:39] might do to me. He's already done a number of things to me. He sent armed U.S. Marshals to my home. [24:46] He filed a bar complaint against me with the D.C. bar where I'm licensed to practice law. [24:53] I don't know what else he's capable of. And it makes me incredibly nervous, not just for me, [24:58] but also for my family. [25:01] Well, you're incredibly courageous. And didn't he claim that U.S. Marshals, [25:06] that that was sort of business as usual for U.S. Marshals? I mean, so insane, which was, [25:13] as she said, just patently false. [25:16] Yeah, I mean, those are law enforcement officers. Like, the U.S. Marshals come to your house if [25:21] they're trying to arrest you, you know, if they're looking for a fugitive. They don't send U.S. [25:26] Marshals in the Justice Department to deliver letters, which is what this was purportedly about. [25:30] He's trying to claim that it is standard operating procedure for the Justice Department to send U.S. [25:35] Marshals to deliver letters to former employees, which is absolutely preposterous. Katie, you could [25:41] not find one Justice Department employee, past or present, who would say that that is normal. [25:48] And someone asked, were you able to tell Congress about the Federal Bureau of Prisons change notice? [25:53] Yes. People are paying attention to your work, Liz, and what you have to say. [25:57] Is there anything that can be done legally? Why don't you explain, for people who may not be [26:02] familiar, what the Bureau of Prisons change notice is? [26:06] Yeah, Blanche tried to sneak in a major change to the Bureau of Prisons regulations that essentially [26:12] allows the attorney general, who is now Todd Blanche, is the acting attorney general, to dictate [26:18] where federal prisoners serve their prison sentence. So he could say, I like this person, [26:24] let's send them to a cushy minimum security camp, or I don't like this person, let's send [26:28] them to maximum security, that sort of thing. So it gives the attorney general an unprecedented [26:34] amount of discretion over something the attorney general has never been involved in historically [26:39] ever, for good reason. He's not an expert to know what type of facility someone should appropriately [26:46] be housed in if they're in prison. That issue didn't come up in the hearing today, but what [26:51] did come up was Ghislaine Maxwell's prison transfer. Senator Cory Booker asked, and I had the opportunity [26:58] to explain how absolutely shocking it is that this convicted sex trafficker of children would [27:05] be transferred to a minimum security camp after she had this two-day meeting with Todd Blanche, [27:11] in which she gave statements that purported to exonerate President Trump from any improper [27:16] behavior with Jeffrey Epstein. Let's talk about what happens now. So is it over? Are his hearings [27:26] over? Do they continue? I should know this. I'm sorry, I don't. So the hearing itself has concluded, [27:32] and the next step in the process is the senators have the opportunity to send written questions, [27:37] both to Blanche and to the outside witnesses. And those questions then will have a certain [27:43] deadline for response. They go back to the senators. That gives them the opportunity essentially to ask [27:48] follow-up questions if there's anything that wasn't adequately answered in the hearing itself. [27:54] And then they will take a vote at some point. Senator Tillis mentioned today that he thought [27:58] perhaps two weeks from now is when there could likely be a vote on this. I don't know all the ins and [28:04] amounts of how they decide when votes take place, but I do know that they're trying to vote on it [28:09] before their August recess, before they adjourn for the end of summer. [28:13] I was thinking, Liz, about RFK Jr., you know, how he was really obviously controversial and how he met [28:21] personally with senators, including Senator Cassidy, who's a doctor himself. And apparently, [28:28] Robert F. Kennedy Jr. made false statements to him and basically lied in order to get his vote. [28:36] I'd love to interview Senator Cassidy about that at some point. But will Todd Blanche have an [28:42] opportunity to set up one-on-one meetings with some of these senators to try to get them in his [28:49] corner, particularly like John Cornyn and Tom Tillis? [28:55] Yeah, he's already doing that. He's actually pulling out all the stops to try to get the senators [29:00] who are kind of on the fence on board. Blanche actually spent three days last week in Alaska, [29:07] lavishing Alaska with praise and special treatment because he's trying to shore up the vote of Lisa [29:14] Murkowski. I mean, he literally traveled to Alaska last week to try to make sure that he gets [29:20] Senator Murkowski's vote. She's somebody who expressed some reservations about him, particularly [29:26] related to his handling of the Epstein files. And that's a pretty extreme example. He's also been [29:32] up on the Hill meeting regularly with the senators whose votes are potentially in play and doing [29:37] everything he can to try to shore up support. [29:40] It will be so interesting. I'm watching John Cornyn. Sounds like Tom Tillis gave himself a [29:48] little out, right, to, you know, to try to make a stand and then to let him, you know, to vote yes [29:56] so it can go to the full Senate. But John Cornyn may not be such a sure thing. And before we go, [30:05] because I know you helped people understand what they could do if they wanted Todd, you know, wanted [30:11] to express their displeasure and opposition to Todd Blanche as the attorney general. What can people [30:21] do? Can you just remind us, Liz? [30:23] Yeah, the best thing that people can do at this point is call or write their senators, especially [30:28] Senator John Cornyn. Even if you're not his constituent, you can reach out to Senator John [30:33] Cornyn and ask him not to support Todd Blanche's nomination. There are still, you know, there's [30:40] still some other senators potentially in play. As far as the committee vote, it really will come down [30:44] to Cornyn and Tillis. I think Tillis is going to vote for Blanche based on everything he said, [30:49] but Cornyn still seems very much in play. So I think it would be a very productive use of anyone's [30:55] time who has the bandwidth to call or email Senator Cornyn's office and urge him to vote against [31:02] Blanche. If the nomination gets to a full floor vote, there are a couple of other senators who [31:07] may be in play as well, including Lisa Murkowski and Bill Cassidy, who you mentioned, who's also [31:12] on his way out of the Senate. There were some thinking that because Mitch McConnell was on [31:17] his way out of the Senate, his vote might also be in play. We now don't really know what's [31:21] going on with him and whether he'll be able to vote at all. But for the moment, I think the [31:26] most productive action item is to reach out to Senator John Cornyn of Texas. [31:30] Do you think, are there any other Republicans if it goes before the full Senate besides Murkowski, [31:35] Cassidy? And, you know, obviously, who knows what's going on with Mitch McConnell, but [31:42] anybody else who seems persuadable of the full Senate? [31:48] Well, there's the eternally blowing in the wind Susan Collins, who... [31:52] I was going to say, what about Susan Collins? Because, you know, she's running for re-election. [31:58] Yeah. I wonder if she'll feel a little pressure emboldened or she usually just caves at the last [32:08] minute, right? Yes, that's exactly right, Katie. I mean, she's up for re-election. And so there's [32:13] some thought that she might be persuaded by some of the issues that are concerning to people in the [32:19] middle, including the Epstein files and the complaints of the Epstein survivors. So in theory, [32:26] her vote is also in play. I don't like to hang my hopes on Susan Collins, but we'll see. [32:33] By the way, 202-224-3121. I have that burned in my brain from when I was a reporter. That is the [32:42] Capitol Hill switchboard, everyone. 202-244-22... Wait, sorry. I just don't want to tell you guys the wrong [32:52] thing. 224, I think. Hold on. Let me just double... I'm just double checking, you guys. I thought it was [32:59] very... 202-224-3121. And as Liz said, let's flood John Cornyn's office with phone calls to express [33:14] our displeasure at the prospect of him voting to confirm Todd Blanche as Attorney General. Liz, [33:22] listen. I know I'm going to say goodbye because you're exhausted. I think I speak on behalf of [33:28] everyone watching that you are a real profile in courage. We so appreciate your willingness to do [33:34] this, to do the right thing, to stand up and, you know, let your voice be heard, despite the fact that [33:44] it's a scary thing to do, particularly in, you know, given how much retribution this administration [33:55] seems to really practice and thrive on. So thank you very much. And I think to pay tribute to you, [34:06] everybody should call John Cornyn's office. 202-224-3121. And let's keep talking because [34:15] obviously as this develops, I'd love to just stay in touch. And my followers here on Substack and [34:21] your followers on your own Substack, by the way, which is Lawyer, Oyer, Lawyer, Lawyer, Oyer. [34:26] Lawyer, Oyer. Yeah. Lawyer, Oyer. Lawyer, Oyer, which is very hard to say. [34:31] Anyway, well, listen, I hope you get a good night's sleep and go enjoy some time with your [34:39] family. And thanks again for doing this, Liz. I'm so grateful. [34:44] I really appreciate your having me on. You know, you were the first person who interviewed me after [34:48] I testified in front of Democrats about my firing a year ago. And it's really helped me to find a [34:55] voice in a platform to share my concerns. And I'm really grateful for you. [34:59] Well, I think what you're doing is really an invaluable public service. I think the way you [35:05] explain things, you know, very directly in ways that non-lawyers can understand is truly appreciated. [35:13] So keep up the good work, Liz. [35:15] Thanks, Katie. [35:15] And go have a cocktail. [35:18] I will do that right now. [35:20] Okay. [35:20] Thank you. [35:21] Bye. [35:21] Bye. [35:21] And I just want to say to everyone, thank you so much for watching. I hope you all will take to heart. [35:29] I'm going to actually call John Cornyn's office right now. And you can just leave a message. [35:37] And, you know, one thing I remember when I was interviewing Senator Mark Kelly, I did a documentary [35:41] on gun violence. And, you know, the one thing that he and Gabby Giffords, his wife, told me is that [35:50] they really pay attention. Members of Congress really pay attention when they get calls. [35:56] And they get calls from either constituents or people who live in other states. They take note [36:03] of it. I think sometimes you feel like they're not going to care if I call. But according to [36:09] Mark Kelly and Gabby Giffords, they actually do. So I'm going to, as soon as I hang up from you all [36:19] or finish this conversation, I'm going to go ahead and call John Cornyn's office. Let us know. Isn't [36:27] Liz great, by the way? She's so smart and she's so, like, level-headed. I really like her. Let us [36:35] know. Anybody else you want us to talk to? We're trying to book Senator Cassidy. Be great if John [36:41] Cornyn would talk to us. I don't think that's going to happen. Or Tom Tillis. And again, I know [36:50] I sound like I hate doing this, but anybody wants to subscribe to our, to be a paid subscriber, [36:58] so-called friend with benefits, LOL. We are always grateful if you decide to do that. Because I have [37:08] a whole team of people. We have to book people. We have to do the research. We have to stay on top [37:14] of all the stories that are going on, which is really difficult. I could never do it on my own [37:19] without my extraordinary team of people who help. So that's it. I'm talking too much. I'm going to [37:25] leave you now. See you next time. Bye.