Senate Judiciary Committee Hearing: 'Somali Scammers: Fighting Fraud In Minnesota and Beyond'

[14:04] Good afternoon. Hereby call to order this hearing, Somali scammers fighting fraud in Minnesota [14:12] and beyond. There are few crimes more morally repugnant than stealing from vulnerable children. [14:21] Every dollar stolen is a meal not eaten, a doctor's visit missed, and a future diminished. [14:29] Child welfare fraud plunders our children's potential and erodes our nation's future. [14:35] And disturbingly, at the start of this new year, America has learned that this kind of looting was [14:42] not occurring in some distant or lawless place, but in the heart of America's Midwest. Federal [14:51] prosecutors in Minnesota now estimate that half or more of the 18 billion dollars spent since 2018 [14:59] across 14 Minnesota welfare programs may have been lost to fraud. If confirmed, the amount stolen [15:09] would be a million dollars. [15:09] Among the largest welfare frauds in American history. In Minnesota, a welfare system designed [15:17] to uplift the most vulnerable children was treated like an open ATM, exploiting both taxpayers and [15:26] the public trust extended to immigrant communities. Over the last decade, Minnesota Democrats didn't [15:34] just fail to stop the fraud. They made it easy and profitable, and in a totally lawless fashion, [15:43] silenced anyone who pointed out the fraud. [15:44] Taken together, the record shows that the fraud was not accidental or unforeseeable, but was the [15:53] product of deliberate inaction, willful blindness, and calculated abuse. Today, we will proceed in [16:02] three parts. First, we will show that Minnesota was clearly warned by journalists, by auditors, [16:10] and by its own independent oversight bodies, and that the state responded by passing laws [16:16] and promulgating safeguards intending to stop this fraud. [16:19] Secondly, we will examine how Minnesota's Democrat leadership deliberately turned a blind eye, failed [16:28] to enforce those safeguards, and in some cases retaliated against those who tried to sound the [16:34] alarm. And third, we will explain how the fraud actually took place, the mechanics by which these [16:41] schemes operated, and the very real harms they inflicted, not only on taxpayers, but on vulnerable [16:48] children, and on law-abiding Somali families whose trusts and identities, [16:53] were exploited. First, Minnesota was warned. Let me be clear about one foundational fact. [17:02] Minnesota was not caught unaware. Minnesota was warned repeatedly, unmistakably, and years in [17:08] advance. This fraud did not arrive suddenly. It did not emerge from an unforeseen loophole, [17:15] and it did not occur without notice. As far back as 2010, the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel exposed [17:26] widespread child care fraud across the upper Midwest, [17:30] in a Pulitzer Prize-winning investigation [17:33] that sent a clear warning to regulators, providers, and [17:36] the child care industry as a whole. Without strong oversight and verification, [17:42] fraud would flourish. Minnesota was on notice. Nearly a decade later, [17:48] those warnings were no longer journalistic. Now, they were official. [17:54] In 2019, the Minnesota Office of the Legislative Auditor issued a formal [17:59] report examining Minnesota's childcare assistance program, the CCAP. [18:05] The legislative [18:06] auditor identified serious deficiencies in oversight, including inadequate [18:10] attendance verification, weak financial controls, fragmented enforcement, and an [18:15] over-reliance on provider self-reporting. The auditor warned plainly that these [18:21] conditions created a high risk of fraud. Critically, the auditor estimated that [18:27] approximately 100 million dollars of child care assistance programs funds had [18:33] already been lost to fraud. Minnesota Democrats responded, but not out of [18:39] vigilance, out of political necessity. The report landed just months after they won [18:45] their new majority in the state legislature in the 2018 elections. Faced [18:51] with a damning audit and mounting political pressure, Democrats acted, on [18:56] paper at least. Following the 2019 report, the legislature amended CCAP statutes [19:03] and promulgated new enforcement policies designed to close [19:07] precisely the gaps the auditor had identified. By 2019, Minnesota had the [19:18] warnings, the audit findings, and a panoply of legal authorities to detect, [19:23] stop, suspend, and prosecute fraud. But that brings us to the second part of the [19:31] story. Democrat leadership ignored the law [19:35] they had just passed, attacked whistleblowers, and failed to enforce it. [19:38] Once Minnesota had been warned, and once Minnesota Democrats wrote the solution [19:43] into law, the duty was clear. Enforce the law. Instead, they treated [19:48] legislation as a press release, not a mandate, providing political cover while [19:53] allowing the money to keep flowing. Federal audits later confirmed what [19:58] internal staff had warned all along. Minnesota failed to verify attendance, [20:03] failed to use its suspension authority, and failed to intervene early when red [20:08] flags appeared. What's worse, rather than go after the fraudsters, [20:13] the state went after the whistleblowers. On January 31st, 2026, the Minnesota Star Tribune [20:21] reported that staff at the Minnesota Department of Human Services repeatedly flagged fraud [20:26] risks and lax safeguards, only to have those concerns ignored, dismissed, or met with retaliation. [20:36] According to that reporting, current and former DHS employees sent an anonymous letter to [20:41] the U.S. House Committee on Oversight and Accountability describing serious and systemic [20:45] failures dating back to at least 2019. Employees reported being reassigned, called racist and [20:54] xenophobic, sidelined, excluded from key discussions, and in some cases subjected to [21:00] what they described as threats or workplace surveillance after raising red flags. Minnesota's [21:09] Democrat leaders did not reward integrity. Instead, they punished it. When bipartisan [21:17] legislation was introduced to establish an independent inspector general, Minnesota Democrats [21:23] blocked it. The Democrat House Speaker at the time explained why. An inspector general, [21:29] quote, [21:30] has a budget framework citing an $18 million cost over four years. As billions were being [21:36] pilfered by fraud and as whistleblowers were being silenced and punished, Minnesota Democrats [21:42] had the gall to say that an inspector general costing only $4.5 million a year was too expensive. [21:51] That wasn't fiscal prudence. That was a choice. It was willful blindness. [22:01] The programs move billions of dollars each year, and they're concentrated within a relatively [22:08] small number of administrative pipelines. Minnesota's Somali community receives welfare [22:14] benefits at rates far higher than the state average, making these programs both financially [22:20] significant and politically sensitive. In a state where the two closest statewide elections [22:26] were decided by less than 1%, the Somali community votes overwhelmingly Democrat. The numbers [22:35] are stark. Eighty-one percent of Somali households in Minnesota receive some form of welfare. [22:42] Eighty-one percent, compared to 21% of non-Somali households. Fifty-four percent of Somali [22:49] households receive food stamps, compared to seven percent of non-Somali households. Seventy-three [22:56] percent are enrolled in Medicaid, compared to 18% of non-Somali households. And 27% receive [23:06] cash assistance, compared to six percent of non-Somali households. In December 2025, we're [23:18] in the national [23:46] primary sector. [23:52] to the same address and no kids present. [23:57] It's amazing having childcare centers [23:59] and autism centers with no kids. [24:01] And by the way, it's not subtle. [24:02] You walk up, there's no toys, there's no kids, [24:05] and the windows are blacked out. [24:07] This is not hidden. [24:09] It is obvious, except for the Democrats [24:12] that didn't wanna see it. [24:15] Had the state done its job, had it sent inspectors [24:18] instead of press releases, that fraud would've been obvious. [24:26] To understand just how calculated this fraud became, [24:29] consider the most disturbing example of all. [24:32] In September, 2025, federal prosecutors [24:35] charged Asha Farhan Hassan for orchestrating [24:39] a $14 million fraud scheme [24:42] against Minnesota's EIDBI autism program. [24:46] The program exists to provide medically necessary [24:49] early and intensive care to children with autism. [24:53] Fraudsters turned it into a profit engine. [24:56] According to the charges, Hassan and her partners [24:59] recruited children from the Somali community, [25:02] paid parents cash kickbacks, [25:04] used unqualified individuals [25:06] as quote-unquote therapists, [25:09] and billed Medicaid for services never provided [25:12] or grossly inflated. [25:14] Where a child did not already have an autism diagnosis, [25:17] the scheme allegedly worked to obtain one. [25:20] In other words, there was no child they could not qualify [25:23] because the diagnosis itself became the means to an end. [25:29] According to the University of Minnesota, [25:31] one in 12 eight-year-old Somali children in Minnesota [25:34] was diagnosed with autism, [25:37] compared with one in 28 non-Somali children statewide. [25:40] In Minnesota, Somali children are seven times more likely [25:46] than their non-Somali peers to receive autism [25:49] quote-unquote treatment. [25:52] These figures show extraordinary concentration [25:54] and extraordinary billing, [25:55] the precise conditions fraudsters exploit. [26:00] And here's the deepest human cost. [26:02] Telling an immigrant child that he has autism, [26:04] not because he does, but because someone wants to get paid. [26:10] Imagine the weight of that diagnosis on parents [26:12] who may not speak English fluently, who trust authorities, [26:15] who believe the government would never lie [26:17] about their child's health. [26:19] That label can follow a child for life, [26:21] shaping education, self-image, and opportunity. [26:26] Doing that for financial enrichment is not merely fraud, [26:29] it is the deliberate exploitation of children [26:32] and the calculated betrayal of parents. [26:36] And once fraud proceeds are laundered and sent overseas, [26:39] in 2023, the Somali diaspora sent nearly $2 billion [26:44] back to Somalia. [26:47] Once they're sent overseas, [26:49] they're effectively unrecoverable. [26:49] Meanwhile, al-Shabaab, [26:54] the U.S. designated foreign terrorist organization [26:57] and al-Qaeda's affiliate in Somalia, [27:01] controls large swaths of territory [27:03] and systematically extorts money [27:05] moving through its financial channels. [27:10] When billions of dollars are stolen [27:12] from U.S. welfare programs and sent abroad, [27:14] there is no credible way to ensure those funds [27:16] do not enrich jihadists within al-Shabaab. [27:20] As one confidential source told the Manhattan Institute, [27:24] the largest funder of al-Shabaab, [27:28] a Islamist terrorist organization in Somalia, [27:33] is the Minnesota taxpayer. [27:37] Listen to that again. [27:39] The single largest funder of al-Shabaab, [27:42] a terrorist organization in Somalia, [27:46] is the taxpayers of Minnesota. [27:51] Taken together, the evidence before this committee [27:53] leads to one unavoidable conclusion. [27:55] Minnesota was warned. [27:58] Minnesota's Democrat leadership failed to enforce [28:00] the laws it passed. [28:01] And that failure allowed organized fraud to flourish, [28:06] harming children, betraying families, [28:08] and robbing the public of trust and resources. [28:14] This hearing is necessary because Minnesota's [28:17] elected Democrats were complicit in this fraud. [28:22] They stood to benefit politically [28:25] from looking the other way as fraudsters robbed [28:29] the taxpayers of Minnesota. [28:35] Look at the bench of witnesses. [28:38] To this hearing, I invited Governor Tim Walz. [28:41] He's not here. [28:43] I invited Attorney General Ellison. [28:46] He's not here. [28:47] I invited Mayor Frey and Tiki Brown, [28:51] the commissioner of the Minnesota Department of Children, [28:53] Youth, and Families. [28:54] Not one of them agreed to testify and defend his or her conduct. [28:59] They are hiding out after having served [29:03] as the lookout in a bank robbery that was robbing [29:08] the taxpayers of Minnesota. [29:10] The people of Minnesota and the American people deserve better. [29:16] And not a one of these Democrats has given any credible, [29:18] excuse why they're terrified to answer questions. [29:25] I now recognize the ranking member. [29:31] What a strange thing it is to have a hearing about Minnesota [29:39] that doesn't address what's on the front pages of every newspaper [29:46] about Minnesota, the violent and unwelcome federal occupation [29:52] of its largest city by the chairman's political party, [29:59] an occupation that has already caused the deaths at federal agents' hands [30:04] of two American citizens and left many more injured [30:10] and that is roundly criticized by law enforcement leaders, [30:16] including those in Texas, as unprofessional and dangerous. [30:24] That may explain why elected officials [30:27] in Minnesota have something better to do today. [30:32] No mention today of 100 violations by agents there [30:39] of federal court orders. [30:43] No mention of the sacking of the vain little commander [30:49] of that operation. [30:51] No mention of the venomous lies told by Secretary Noem [30:56] about the shooting victims without investigation or sympathy [31:04] as their bereaved families grappled with grief [31:07] at their deaths. [31:10] I've done law enforcement briefings and rule one is to tell [31:17] the truth. [31:19] What a strange thing it is to have a hearing about fraud [31:22] in Minnesota that doesn't acknowledge [31:25] that the wide ranging investigation and prosecutions [31:29] of $9 billion worth of fraud in that state began years ago [31:36] under the Biden administration. [31:39] No mention of the fact that the current administration drove [31:45] out the career prosecutor leading those cases. [31:51] When it demanded he investigate the victim, [31:53] victim of an ICE shooting, not the agent who did the shooting. 14 prosecutors have left the [32:02] Minnesota U.S. Attorney's Office in the past month. And what a strange thing it is to have a hearing [32:12] about fraud that doesn't look at the colossal fraud perpetrated by this administration, [32:21] starting with the president's own conviction of 34 felony fraud counts, the dismissal of [32:32] inspectors general who watch out for fraud, the destruction of the Justice Department components [32:40] that prevent and prosecute corruption, the self-serving billion-dollar crypto deals that line [32:50] the pockets of the president and his family, the pay-to-play presidential pardon [32:59] that strip fraud victims of their restitution, the disabling of consumer protection offices [33:09] and regulators that defend the public against fraud. It is a carnival of fraud and self-dealing. [33:21] On top of all this, the biggest fraud ever perpetrated in America is going on right now, [33:32] facilitated and accelerated by the Trump administration. [33:37] And it is a carnival of fraud. [33:37] And it is a carnival of fraud. [33:37] implemented through a massive semi-covert climate denial fraud operation and a twinned massive [33:49] semi-covert dark money political corruption operation this fraud costs americans hundreds [33:59] of billions of dollars every year 770 billion dollars annually according to the international [34:09] monetary fund 820 billion dollars annually in health care costs from another report climate [34:19] related disasters cost the united states 115 billion dollars last year how was this fraud done [34:29] this long-running fraud operation began when oil industry scientists reported to their bosses [34:35] the dangers of fossil fuel pollution and instead of responsible stewardship [34:41] the bosses hid the reports that [34:44] was stage one stage two moved from hiding to purposefully misleading a federal court [34:54] shut down big tobacco's fraud operation to mislead the public about the dangers of tobacco [35:03] that tobacco fraud operation was quickly repurposed by big oil into its own fraud [35:11] operation to mislead the public about the dangers of its product stage three kicked off [35:20] with citizens united which gave the fossil fuel industry the ability to spend unlimited amounts [35:27] of political money and spend it secretly this dark money political corruption operation swiftly [35:34] strangled bipartisanship on climate before stage three there were multiple bipartisan climate bills [35:44] in the senate and john mccain ran for president on a legitimate climate platform all of that was [35:53] killed by fossil fuels [35:55] dark money now we're in the most dangerous stage where the corruption is so entrenched [36:02] that the fossil fuel industry can infiltrate and weaponize the federal government as its own [36:08] industry tool to defeat energy competitors whose product is cleaner safer and cheaper but no [36:20] republican dares talk about that problem any longer such is the party's dependence on those big [36:29] fossil fuel donors [36:33] president trump asked the fossil fuel companies for a one billion dollar campaign slush fund [36:40] in 2024 and they expect and got a return on their investment quid pro quo the lies and fraud are [36:51] legion but to use just one rhode island-based example senior cabinet officials continually [36:56] assert that offshore wind is unaffordable when the opposite is true anyone reading the contract can [37:03] see that revolution wins and that's why we're in the middle of a climate crisis we're in the middle of a climate crisis [37:04] we're in the middle of a climate crisis we're in the middle of a climate crisis we're in the middle of a climate crisis [37:04] will bring 9.9 kilowatt hours to an 18 cent kilowatt hour grid the administration's [37:11] weaponized attacks rejected as pretextual went zero for five in federal court including before [37:21] a trump appointee instead of focusing on this massive fraud or holding the administration [37:29] accountable for the monumental levels of fraud and corruption in its own ranks a texas chairman [37:37] holds a hearing on fraud in [37:38] the district of minnesota which is neither the biggest issue in minnesota nor the biggest example [37:45] of fraud there's a biblical saying about the moat in another's eye and the beam in your own [37:53] from the sermon on the mount why beholdest thou the moat that is in thy brother's eye but consider us [38:01] not the beam that is in thine own asked jesus i will leave it at that i want to commend my democrat [38:12] colleagues for giving an ode to home for a long time the most important piece of the story of the [38:15] to Homer Simpson, when something is distracting, scream, squirrel! [38:22] Because we saw a speech about global warming. [38:26] We saw a speech about orange man bad. [38:30] We saw a speech about how today's Democrat Party exists seemingly exclusively to defend [38:37] violent criminal illegal aliens and to demonize law enforcement. [38:42] And yet, miraculously, in that enormous word cloud, virtually nothing about nine billion [38:52] dollars stolen from Minnesota taxpayers by Somali fraudsters, with Democrat politicians [38:58] knowing full well what is happening, facilitating it, and harvesting votes and campaign dollars [39:06] from the people robbing the children of Minnesota. [39:12] My Democrat colleagues want you desperately not to focus on those facts. [39:18] And so instead, I want you to focus on the facts. [39:19] Instead, miraculously, the Democrats have discovered the Sermon on the Mount. [39:26] Well, this hearing is going to focus on nine billion dollars stolen from the taxpayers [39:34] and hundreds of millions of those dollars going to the al-Shabaab terrorist organization [39:39] funded by the Democrats, as much as my colleagues on that side of the aisle don't want to talk [39:46] about it. [39:47] With that, I recognize the chairman of the full committee, Chairman Grassley. [39:51] Senator Cruz, thank you for chairing this. [39:53] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [39:54] Thank you for having me. [39:55] I'm very pleased to be here in this important subcommittee hearing. [39:56] And I want to point out an association with your emphasis in your remarks about the importance [40:04] of whistleblowers and inspectors generals rooting out and exposing fraud. [40:13] I'll speak about that a little bit, but not as strongly as you have, and I want to say [40:19] that I appreciate your bringing that up. [40:21] Thank you. [40:22] Thank you very much. [40:23] in the Senate I've exposed waste fraud and abuse within many government [40:28] programs at the end of last year the American people owned learned of [40:33] shocking and sophisticated fraud schemes in Minnesota billions of taxpayers [40:39] dollars may have been lost to crime what happened in Minnesota is as bad as it [40:47] gets these fraud schemes have targeted federal programs designed to help [40:53] children with autism the elderly and small businesses it's deplorable that [41:00] fraudsters would target programs designed to help Americans struggling to [41:06] take care of their children and their families it's also deplorable that the [41:11] waltz administration allegedly retaliated against whistleblowers who [41:17] tried to expose this fraud if true such retaliation should not go [41:23] unpunished [41:23] in large-scale fraud schemes like these whistleblowers are public's greatest [41:30] asset and allies Congress federal agencies and state agencies must protect [41:37] whistleblowers and the executive branch must hold criminals fully accountable to [41:42] the law that's why in January I wrote to nearly ten agencies including the [41:49] Department of Justice and the FBI regarding the allegations [41:54] you [41:54] this is all about accountability I want to know what the government's doing to [42:00] solve these problems hold wrongdoers accountable and take steps to ensure [42:06] this never happens again director Patel announced in December 2025 that the FBI [42:13] deployed personnel and investigative resources to Minnesota Attorney General [42:20] Bondi has ordered additional Department of Justice prosecutors to Minnesota [42:25] and on January the 8th the Trump administration announced the creation of a new division for [42:32] National fraud enforcement within the Department of Justice this new division will focus on rooting [42:40] out fraud across the federal government and it'll be led by a new assistant attorney general the [42:47] treasury departments introduced additional reporting requirement for Banks and other [42:53] financial institutions [42:55] in Minnesota these new requirements are designed to alert regulators to suspicious overseas transfer of [43:03] cash regarding these financial oversight efforts secretary Besant recently stated quote Minnesota is [43:13] going to be the Genesis of a national rollout a national approach is needed now more than ever [43:21] the Department of Education is also reportedly begun [43:26] creating a dedicated fraud detections team and has already prevented one billion dollars in student [43:33] aid fraud since January 2025. I expect the administration to provide the committee with [43:40] updates regarding these efforts however as the title of this hearing suggests allegations of [43:46] fraud have extended beyond Minnesota to other states fraudsters are operating on a national [43:54] scale affecting federal [43:56] programs from Medicaid to student aid and Beyond the federal government and state governments whether [44:04] Republican or Democrat are in charge must always respect the taxpayers and their monies the same is [44:10] true of the inspector General Community federal and state agencies across the country must work [44:17] together to get to the bottom of these sophisticated fraud schemes this should not be a partisan issue [44:26] Senator Cruz thank you again for holding this area thank you Mr Chairman I now recognize the ranking member of [44:34] the full committee thank you Mr Chairman this is the subcommittee's second hearing this year last month we [44:43] had to listen to my Republican colleagues push for the impeachment of federal judges who had the nerve [44:49] to rule against the Trump administration today's hearing marks another low in the last month federal [44:57] agents shot and killed two of our fellow Americans [45:01] in Minnesota bystanders and journalists have documented numerous abuses of constitutional [45:07] rights by federal agents in Minneapolis including warrantless arrest use of excessive force racial [45:16] profiling surveillance of protesters and the detention of U.S citizens and children this [45:24] abuse of power and much needed oversight of the Trump administration should be the focus of this [45:30] subcommittee because of the individuals involved in what they have done somewhere along the way [45:35] many of my Republican colleagues decided they could tolerate the scenes of agents shooting [45:41] innocent American citizens but the timely topic to them is fraud by one immigrant group in that [45:48] same state as part of their need ongoing need to carry water for the president they have chosen [45:54] to embrace his bigoted attacks on Somali immigrants whom he is called garbage the [46:03] shameful title of today's hearing reflects that same approach I want to be clear fraud [46:09] is a crime and it should be prosecuted accordingly in fact it was the Biden Justice Department that [46:15] opened the Minnesota fraud investigation and brought the first prosecution and it is the [46:20] Trump Justice Department that has diverted prosecutors and FBI agents away from fraud [46:26] investigations to focus on the president's mass deportation campaign and his effort to establish [46:34] some sort of retribution for his political enemies according to the Cato Insta Institute [46:40] a conservative operation American citizens accounted for 95 percent of federal welfare fraud [46:47] losses from 2013 to 2024 American citizens so to suggest that the Somali community is [46:55] disproportionately responsible for fraud is just not supported by the facts even from the Cato [47:01] Institute if we're serious about fighting fraud let's talk about a president who has more than [47:07] doubled his net worth since his return to office blind trust [47:12] as a possibility have been replaced by eyes wide open money grab let's talk about senior [47:19] administration officials who have misused government resources and taxpayers dollars [47:24] for personal purposes and travel let's talk about fraudsters who have made huge contributions to the [47:30] president and been rewarded with pardons business executives who have committed Medicare fraud [47:36] securities fraud wire fraud crypto fraud tax fraud if we're worried about people breaking [47:42] the law in Minnesota our focus should be on the Trump administration [47:44] Department of Homeland Security last week the chief federal district judge in Minnesota a [47:51] Republican appointee noted that ice violated 96 court orders in Minnesota in January alone likely [48:00] more than some federal agents have violated in their entire existence but Minnesota is not the [48:05] only place suffering from this cruelty of this administration for months the administration [48:10] has targeted my home state of Illinois as part of reckless attacks they claim or law enforcement [48:16] actions in reality they are not enforcing the law they are breaking it with their racial profiling [48:22] detentions threats and use of excessive force last month the administration expanded its attacks by [48:28] trying to freeze billions of dollars in essential funding for children and families in five Democratic [48:35] led states Illinois was targeted along with Minnesota New York California and Colorado [48:41] political retribution at the expense of children the administration provided no support for their [48:47] allegations that these states were improperly awarding benefits but the explanation is obvious [48:52] this is another act of political retribution by the Trump administration this hearing is an affront to [48:58] the people of Minnesota and the memories of those who lost their lives at the hands of immigration [49:02] officers the real fraud we should be focused to focus on is the one perpetrated by this president [49:08] and his acolytes IU thank you I will now introduce the witnesses the first witness we have is the [49:17] honorable Kristen Robbins [49:19] a native of Crookston Minnesota Kristen Robbins currently serves as the chair of the fraud [49:25] prevention committee in the Minnesota House of Representatives where she works to uncover the [49:30] large-scale fraud in Minnesota and to hold state agencies and fraudsters accountable representative [49:36] Robbins is also co-chair of the bipartisan bicameral Civility Caucus which aims to build [49:42] relationships and trust across parties and between the House and Senate prior to joining the house in [49:48] 2018 representative Robbins [49:50] represented and served as the executive director of the economic club of Minnesota a non-profit [49:56] focused on strengthening Minnesota's economic competitiveness and previously served on the [50:01] state commission to end chronic homelessness she received her bachelor's degree in economics and [50:07] political science from Bethel University and her master's degree in economics from Washington [50:11] University our second witness is Robert Weissman who is the co-president of public citizen the [50:18] consumer advocacy and pro-democracy organization [50:22] focuses on government and corporate accountability among other issues he is the author of the corporate [50:28] sabotage of America's future and the co-author of two other books previously he worked as director [50:35] of the corporate accountability organization essential action and as editor of the multinational [50:40] monitor a magazine that tracks multinational Corporation Weissman is a graduate of Harvard [50:47] College and the Harvard Law School a fact for which I hope we can forgive him [50:54] our final witness is David Hoke David Hoke is most well known for his role as the Minneapolis [51:02] whistleblower in YouTuber Nick Shirley's video uncovering massive fraud within Minnesota's Somali [51:09] community Mr Hoke was born and raised in Minnesota where he attended the University of Minnesota and [51:15] ran for attorney general in 2010. as an investigator he has devoted considerable time and resources [51:21] over the last several decades to scrutinizing Minnesota's elected [51:26] officials and exposing corruption he is he co-founded Minnesotans for responsible government [51:33] where he serves as a lobbyist and we'll start now representative Robbins you're recognized for your [51:39] opening statement thank you Mr chair thank you for inviting me to testify as chairs the fraud [51:45] prevention and oversight committee in the house I've been working tirelessly over the past year [51:50] to expose the massive fraud that Tim Walls and his administration has enabled we've also proposed [51:56] resolutions and work to hold state agencies and criminals accountable we have a long way to go but [52:01] we are getting results with my brief remarks I want to highlight three things how this started where [52:07] the money is going and provide a roadmap for how states can prevent fraud and we can partner better [52:12] with the federal government first how it started the original fraud scandal was tied to the child [52:18] care assistance program or ccap which is a federal program for low-income families with children [52:23] there have been allegations of fraud in this program [52:26] 2011. by 2014 and 15 there were raids charges and convictions of child care providers for billing [52:34] non-existent or absent children with fraud exceeding a million dollars in some cases in [52:39] March and April of 2019 just a few months into the walls administration the legislative office [52:45] auditor published two reports about the ccap fraud they outlined the fraudulent providers [52:51] and the alleged movement of millions of dollars in cash out of our state to Somalia with [52:56] allegations [52:57] that the money was going to fund terrorism unfortunately according to multiple whistleblowers [53:02] soon after these reports were released the criminal investigation unit for child care fraud [53:07] which had been leading the charge on these prosecutions was shut down by the Department of [53:12] Human Services rather than conducting criminal investigations of fraud the walls administration [53:18] essentially renamed fraud as overpayment and then referred any overpayment cases to a new internal [53:25] overpayment committee [53:27] which would decide if they should pursue reimbursement the DHS staff in this unit were [53:32] no longer allowed to talk to their counterparts in the Bureau of Criminal Apprehension without [53:36] prior supervisor approval failure to address child care fraud and the decision to stop criminal [53:42] investigations led directly to the largest covet fraud scandal in the nation in March of 2020 [53:48] representative Ilhan Omar authored a bill called the meals Act which eventually was incorporated [53:53] into a larger covet package [53:57] and enabled stated states to waive the normal eligibility requirements for participating in the [54:02] National School Lunch Program eliminating income requirements site inspections and expanded [54:07] distribution methods Minnesota took full advantage of these waivers and enabled site sponsors like [54:12] feeding our future Partners in quality care and Gar Gar family services to bill for hundreds of [54:17] millions of fake meals for fake children just one of these groups feeding our future became [54:22] the largest covet fraud in state and National history bilking taxpayers [54:27] of at least $250 million. To date, there have been 78 indictments and 61 convictions in the [54:33] Feeding Our Future scandal, with more cases to go on trial this spring. The Feeding Our Future [54:38] prosecutions then revealed that as many as half of those defendants were also getting state money [54:45] in other Medicaid-funded programs. Yet despite reports on this, back in 2023, more than three [54:51] years ago, Tim Walz and his agencies didn't stop those defendants from getting additional state [54:56] money in other Medicaid programs. We now have found fraud in multiple Medicaid programs, [55:01] including autism centers, sober homes, non-emergency medical transportation, [55:06] integrated community supports, and housing stabilization services. In December, our [55:11] committee held a hearing on credible allegations of fraud in two new areas, adult day services and [55:16] assisted living facilities. We now have seen allegations of fraud in 14 Medicaid programs. [55:22] The former first U.S. attorney who led these prosecutions for years stated that [55:26] the estimated fraud is $9 billion, and this doesn't count fraud in SNAP or child care programs. [55:34] So where's the money going? Minnesotans pay their taxes, and they expect their money to go to things [55:39] that help their communities, roads, schools, health care, and not to be taken by criminals, [55:44] to buy resorts in Kenya, apartments in Nairobi, property in Turkey, or luxury homes and cars in [55:50] the U.S. Worse yet, Minnesota taxpayers have allegedly found their ways into the hands of [55:54] terrorist organizations like Al-Shabaab. [55:57] Both directly and indirectly, the money is walking out the door at the Minnesota-Minneapolis-Saint [56:03] Paul Airport. Back in 2017, the estimate was about $100 million in cash was going out annually from [56:09] our airport. According to TSA, in 2024, there was $340 million in cash outbound, and in 2025, [56:18] it was $350 million. This is astonishing, not only because of the amount, but because it is so [56:25] out of proportion to other airports. [56:27] The cash out of Minneapolis is 99% higher than cash going out of Dallas, Atlanta, and [56:34] JFK in New York. [56:36] It's 90% higher than what's going out of Seattle. [56:39] Minnesotans are incredibly frustrated that their hard-earned money is being siphoned [56:44] off by criminals while their taxes keep going up and vulnerable citizens don't get the [56:49] services they need. [56:51] Other states should learn from our failures. [56:53] There are some basic common-sense principles to stop the fraud. [56:56] First, culture matters. [56:57] Fraud flourishes when leaders ignore it and criminals see they can get away with it. [57:02] Tim Walz has not held anyone responsible. [57:05] Second, fraud flourishes when basic internal controls are not followed. [57:09] This is not complicated. [57:11] Third, truth matters. [57:13] We cannot be cowed by charges of racism or Islamophobia, which have been successfully [57:18] weaponized to limit scrutiny and fraud in Minnesota for years. [57:22] This is not ancient history. [57:24] It is still happening. [57:25] When I testified before the House Oversight Committee on January, I said, [57:28] January 7th, I was stunned to be called a racist six times in that hearing. [57:33] This is the same playbook that has been used to protect Minnesota criminals for years. [57:38] Anytime a whistleblower or legislator raised questions about Somali fraud in daycares, [57:42] nutrition centers, autism centers, they were called a racist or said that charges of racism [57:47] would ruin their careers. [57:49] So where do we go from here? [57:51] State and federal partners work together. [57:54] We need your help to have more audits of these programs and to enforce current laws and regulations. [57:58] We need federal government to establish laws in place that require states to pay back in one year if they have been found fraud or overpayment. [58:05] We also need the federal government to require documentation, not just attestation, for eligibility in these programs. [58:12] We also need more resources at the U.S. Attorney's Office and CMS to help with investigations. [58:17] And finally, the federal government should have greater power of oversight and investigation of cash going out of our country. [58:24] I'm thankful for the brave whistleblowers, journalists, and the federal government for supporting our country. [58:28] federal and state partners in this committee for helping us identify fraud. We cannot allow this [58:34] to continue. The time for accountability and justice is now. Ms. Wiseman. Thank you, Senator [58:46] Graham and members of the committee. Fraud and scams are indeed a scourge in America, across [58:54] this country, not limited to Minnesota. Taxpayers are cheated when fraud is done against government [59:01] programs. Beneficiaries are harmed as well. Fraud and the private sector steals billions from [59:09] consumers and, in extreme cases, drains families of life savings and sends them into a cycle of [59:17] misery. Unfortunately, the reality is the Trump administration is systematically dismantling the [59:25] anti-fraud programs of the federal government. Those programs aim to deter fraud, punish wrongdoers, [59:33] and bring restitution. [59:34] to victims. The administration is undermining all of that. It is fair to say, in fact, that through its [59:43] actions, the administration is fostering more fraud, facilitating more scams, empowering corporate [59:50] and small-time fraudsters alike, and depriving victims of the justice to which they are entitled. [59:58] As regards Minnesota, there plainly is some fraud that has gone on, as there is throughout this [1:00:05] country. Where there is fraud, it should not be done. It should not be done. It should not be done. [1:00:07] It should be investigated and prosecuted. No one wants tougher enforcement more than [1:00:13] legitimate providers and the beneficiaries of the programs that are being defrauded. That said, [1:00:20] it is unhelpful to make claims about fraud in Minnesota or anywhere else based on exaggerated [1:00:27] numbers or shaky evidence. And, in the case of Minnesota, it's worth pointing out that the [1:00:32] efforts by the U.S. Attorney are being undermined by this administration driving out the people who [1:00:38] engage in the prosecution of the fraud in Minnesota and by diverting the FBI [1:00:43] from its work on fraud to immigration enforcement. Moreover, there is no [1:00:49] justification for suspending social service programs, vital social [1:00:54] service programs, as we all agree, as punishment for fraud. That punishes [1:00:59] innocent people and leaves the fraudsters alone. Nor, obviously, is there [1:01:05] any rationale for pursuing suspension of programs on a partisan basis. The [1:01:12] subtitle of this hearing is Dealing with Fraud in Minnesota and Beyond. I wanted [1:01:18] to pull back and talk for a few moments about the beyond. To be clear, the actions [1:01:26] of this administration are undermining governmental anti-fraud and [1:01:31] accountability agencies. When it comes to corporate fraud or scams perpetrated by [1:01:37] those close to the administration, [1:01:38] the policy is to ignore, forgive or coddle the wrongdoers if they're [1:01:44] actually caught. Moreover, the President and his top aides are shattering norms [1:01:49] of conflict of interest and basic ethical standards, creating a culture of [1:01:54] impunity that for sure is encouraging more fraud against the government and [1:01:58] around the country. This is not an administration that is determined to [1:02:03] root out fraud. In short, for the super rich and for the super connected, this is [1:02:09] an administrative [1:02:09] It is taking the anti-fraud cops off the beat. [1:02:13] And for those who manage to get caught anyway, they give them, and they're doling out, get-out-of-jail-free cards. [1:02:19] Let me explain the evidence behind this. [1:02:22] When it comes to the Department of Justice, this administration has gutted or disbanded the public integrity section, [1:02:29] the consumer protection portion branch of the agency. [1:02:32] It has fired the agency's top ethics advisor. [1:02:35] It has issued guidance to soften corporate crime enforcement. [1:02:41] The president has pursued his pardon power in strange service of fraudsters. [1:02:46] Leaving aside the January 6th pardon, more than one-third of all of the president's pardons [1:02:51] have gone to those who perpetrated fraud or similar kinds of crimes. [1:02:58] Those pardons have led to the cancellation of $1.5 billion in fines and restitution owed, [1:03:03] including more than a billion dollars owed to victims of fraud or wrongdoing. [1:03:07] The pardons themselves have re-victimized the victims. [1:03:11] The president has eviscerated the system of inspectors-general [1:03:15] that the chairman was referencing earlier, and for whom has done so much to advance that IG system. [1:03:23] Not only did he fire 17 IGs at the start of his administration, [1:03:27] he is responsible for hiring 2 thirds of presidentially-appointed inspectors-general. [1:03:31] Three quarters of the inspectors-general top offices were empty as of October. [1:03:37] We've looked at the staffing inside the IG's offices. [1:03:40] Drastic cuts in recruitment, and construction work. [1:03:41] We've looked at the staffing inside the IG's offices. [1:03:41] Drastic cuts in recruitment, and construction work. [1:03:42] Drastic cuts in recruitment, and construction work. [1:03:42] across the board. The president had shuttered the Consumer Financial [1:03:46] Protection Bureau, illegally in our estimation, closing down the most [1:03:52] important anti-fraud agency in their federal government. He has slashed [1:03:56] staffing at the Internal Revenue Service by more than a quarter, guaranteeing an [1:04:02] increase in tax fraud avoidance and cheating primarily by the super rich and [1:04:07] costing taxpayers approximately 200 billion dollars over the next 10 years [1:04:13] according to Yale University analysts. He has canceled enforcement against [1:04:19] large corporations more than 150 separate times that we've been able to [1:04:23] document in the first year of the administration. He has engaged in rampant [1:04:29] conflicts of interest, including most startlingly a joint venture with a UAE [1:04:34] affiliated company as reported by the Wall Street Journal this past weekend, [1:04:39] compromising our foreign policy, destroying basic ethics standards, [1:04:43] and inviting more fraud and wrongdoing by others around the country. He has [1:04:50] destroyed the east wing of the White House and then solicited funds from [1:04:55] corporations and the super rich to pay for his ballroom. Our investigations [1:05:00] found that two-thirds of those corporations contributing had government [1:05:05] contracts, more than 200 billion dollars in contracts over the previous three [1:05:12] years. [1:05:15] Senator Cruz is absolutely right to focus on fraud. Senator Cruz is absolutely right [1:05:20] to bring his righteous anger against fraud. But that fraud is not limited to [1:05:26] Minnesota. That is small potatoes compared to what this administration is [1:05:30] perpetrating. This, I encourage this committee to focus on that fraud to [1:05:35] pursue the reversal of the policies that I've identified and serve the American [1:05:40] people who absolutely on a unified basis want to counter fraud and wrongdoing in [1:05:46] the government, [1:05:46] and in the private sector. [1:05:48] Mr. Troke. [1:05:49] My name is David Hoke. I was born in Minneapolis. I'm a lifelong resident of the Twin Cities area. [1:05:59] And although it's not in my testament, I take exception to Mr. Weisman's questioning of my data [1:06:04] as being inaccurate. I'll get back to that. My journey into uncovering fraud in Minnesota and [1:06:10] ultimately throughout the entire United States, as it turns out, began when I started to notice [1:06:15] very unusual changes in the Minneapolis area. Remember, I grew up there, so I know Minneapolis [1:06:19] very well. Most notably, the enormous number of [1:06:22] child care facilities that had opened up. I would drive around the Twin Cities and it seemed these child care [1:06:28] facilities were literally on every block. Some blocks had two or three child care facilities on the same block. [1:06:35] Minnesota sees a fair amount of snow in the winter, and I began to notice driving by these child care facilities, [1:06:39] there were never any footprints in the snow outside these child care facilities. And I'd go by them three, [1:06:44] four, five times a day, Monday through Friday, because my office is in the heart of where a lot of these child care [1:06:49] facilities are. So I said, well, what's going on here with all these child care facilities? [1:06:54] So I began to check the Minnesota Secretary of State's website to find out just who owned all these child care [1:06:59] facilities, and guess what? Every single one of them was Somali-owned. Not every child care facility in Minnesota was, [1:07:07] but the ones that I was looking at that were by my office, and there were a lot of them. What's even stranger is that [1:07:12] every one of these facilities is located in a commercial or industrial building. No play areas, bad neighborhoods, [1:07:18] and several of the child care facilities had signage which stated they were open either 7 a.m. to 10 p.m., [1:07:24] 2 p.m. to 10 p.m. [1:07:25] quality leering centers, for example, or open 24 hours. Who the heck brings their kid to stay overnight at a child care [1:07:33] facility in a rough neighborhood? None of it made any sense. The leering misspelling was the final straw for me. [1:07:41] That's the spark that ignited my full-on investigation. So Minnesota has two different child care licenses available. [1:07:49] One covers 6 a.m. to 6 p.m., and the other one covers 6 p.m. to 6 a.m. They're two very different licenses. [1:07:58] So for a child care facility to be open 24 hours a day or even from 2 p.m. to 10 p.m., [1:08:03] they need both licenses. How many of these facilities that are open, these extended hours, [1:08:09] have two licenses? None of them. Zero. They all have only one license. Minnesota child care supervision [1:08:17] requirements include the following. For infant care, that's 0 to 17 months of age, you have to have one adult [1:08:23] supervising for every four children and max eight in a group, and for toddlers, which is 18 to 20, once every month, [1:08:28] you have to have utopia. And those are the six certain age group, which means kids, 18 and 40 of 18, and [1:08:29] which is 18 and 23 months of age it requires one adult for every five [1:08:34] children to supervise max ten children in that group for two-year-olds you need [1:08:39] one adult for every seven children so maximum 14 in the group so if a child [1:08:43] care facility was billing the state of Minnesota for 99 children ie Quality [1:08:47] Learning Center that child care facility would need to have at least eight [1:08:52] employees supervising those children these cannot be 1099 employees they have [1:08:59] to be w-2 employees that means we're gonna have at least eight w-2s and we're [1:09:03] gonna have at least eight i-9s so if the feds went in and check that what do you [1:09:08] think they're gonna find you already know the answer one issue that is often [1:09:13] brought up is that we are unfairly targeting the Somali community this is a [1:09:17] fair point to be made as one Somali gentleman exclaimed in our second video [1:09:21] we're not the only community that does fraud fraud certainly exists in every [1:09:26] community it was the sheer volume and the blatant nature of the Somali fraud [1:09:31] that demanded my support [1:09:32] but that's not the solution to this problem so let me tell you what I mean [1:09:36] by this is the fact that this is a problem that i mean this is my intention [1:09:39] when one facility Mako child care has another child care mini child care [1:09:44] registered at the same address but the sign still says Mako child care it kind [1:09:49] of stands out and again no children no footprints in the snow ever this is what [1:09:54] I mean by being blatant misspelled signage posted hours that require two [1:09:58] licenses no child footprints in the snow not even once so how did we arrive at [1:10:03] A couple of names come to mind. Jody Harpstead, the former commissioner of the Department of Human Services, and Shireen Gandhi, the current commissioner of the Minnesota Department of Human Services. [1:10:15] Harpstead put the whole fraud on steroids. She was steering the ship from 2019 to 2025 during the COVID-19 pandemic. [1:10:24] This is when the whole fraud network exploded into what we see nationally today and to what we see in my numbers, which are accurate. [1:10:31] So, now we hear that the Minnesota Department of Human Services is forging documents and backdating paperwork all in an effort to cover up their complicity in this fraud. [1:10:43] This is just more criminal behavior from the gang at the Minnesota Department of Human Services. It's criminal behavior. [1:10:51] Minneapolis was the incubator for this nationwide fraud, which you're now seeing in Maine. We're seeing it in Washington State. We're seeing it in Columbus, Ohio. [1:10:58] It was constructed here in Minneapolis. [1:11:03] And the idea behind it was if you can get up... [1:11:05] a population in here and fit them into this fraud framework, you have a guaranteed voting block for all eternity. [1:11:12] The fraud started and then it expanded out and now you see it all around the country. [1:11:17] So, why is fraud bad? Why is it a bad thing? Why does anybody care? [1:11:21] Fraud is bad because it steals from the blind. It steals from kids with cancer. It steals from disabled. It steals from the homeless. It steals from wounded veterans. It steals from everybody in this room. [1:11:33] So, what is the answer? How do we fix this? [1:11:38] The way we fix this is that the federal government has to go to the Minnesota Department of Human Services and every social service agency and say, [1:11:45] look, if you issue a payment using federal money and it goes to a fraudulent company, you run the risk of us coming in, arresting you, handcuffing you, parading you out, bringing you in front of a judge, and putting you in prison. [1:12:00] So, if you're going to issue a payment, you better make sure that it's a legitimate company. Otherwise, don't issue the payment. [1:12:07] Go on Google Earth. Look at... it's a liquor store. [1:12:10] It's a grocery store. Why are you issuing payment to a child care or a transportation company that doesn't even exist? [1:12:15] Why are you issuing a payment? [1:12:17] It's criminal behavior. The federal government has to use that cudgel over these people and say, look, you better be sure if you issue that payment that it's a legitimate payment or you could end up in prison. [1:12:27] Thank you. [1:12:28] Thank you. [1:12:34] Before we move to questioning, I want to ask if each of the witnesses could rise so that I can administer the oath. [1:12:40] If you would raise your right hand. [1:12:42] Do you swear the testimony that you are... [1:12:43] Do you swear the testimony that you are... [1:12:43] Do you swear the testimony that you are... [1:12:44] Do you swear the testimony that you are about to give before this subcommittee is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? [1:12:49] I do. [1:12:51] All of you have answered affirmatively. You can have a seat. [1:12:53] And I hope your opening statements were truthful. [1:12:55] I should have done that before your opening statements, but I guess we'll have to take your word for it. [1:13:01] Representative Robbins, let's start with you. [1:13:07] How broad was the fraud that was perpetrated in Minnesota? [1:13:19] We are still getting a handle on it, but it's all of the... not all of it. [1:13:26] But a huge segment of the childcare programs, autism services, sober homes, emergency transportation, 14 areas of Medicaid fraud, SNAP benefits. [1:13:36] We are still, I would say, getting whistleblower reports, uncovering new vectors of fraud. [1:13:47] We just discovered the adult day services and the assisted living. [1:13:51] Those haven't been counted in the total so far. [1:13:53] So I believe it's much more than that. [1:13:55] Thank you. [1:13:56] I think it's much broader than we currently know, and we will continue to expose it. [1:14:03] Is there any chance the elected Democrats in charge of the state were unaware of the fraud? [1:14:08] No. [1:14:09] There have been credible whistleblower allegations, press reports, and Office of Legislative Auditor reports for many years. [1:14:17] Mr. Hoke, I want to thank you for your citizen journalism and your hard work pressing for accountability here. [1:14:26] I watched the video that you did with rapt attention. [1:14:32] It was profoundly effective. [1:14:34] It was also, by the way, an indictment of all of the so-called journalists on the national level, [1:14:40] because none of them could be bothered to actually go and investigate. [1:14:44] I want to ask you the same questions I asked Representative Robbins. [1:14:47] Number one, how broad do you believe the evidence shows the fraud in Minnesota was? [1:14:53] It's easily in excess of $30 billion. [1:14:55] When you take everything into account, you've got all of these NGOs. [1:15:00] You've got nonprofits. [1:15:01] You've got county money. [1:15:02] You've got city money. [1:15:03] You've got CCAP money. [1:15:05] You've got another thing called Great Start. [1:15:07] So there are all these piles of money that factor into the fraud. [1:15:11] I don't know that anybody can ever determine an exact number. [1:15:14] But I kept telling the U.S. attorney when he came out, I said, you've got to get your number up. [1:15:19] You've got to get your number up. [1:15:20] And he did. [1:15:21] He kept ratcheting up the number, ratcheting up the number. [1:15:23] And I kept saying, you've got to be at least at $30 billion. [1:15:25] So going back to whether Governor Walz knew about it, [1:15:30] Governor Walz admitted, knowing about the fraud, early in his first term, which would take 2020. [1:15:35] Well, Minnesota Statute 3.971 Subdivision 9 clearly says that if you are made aware of fraud in a state agency, [1:15:44] you are obligated to immediately report that fraud to the Office of the Legislative Auditor. [1:15:50] Immediately. [1:15:51] The Legislative Auditor is then the body that determines which law enforcement agency [1:15:57] to bring into the investigation. [1:15:59] Governor Walz did not contact the Office of the Legislative Auditor. [1:16:02] He said he contacted the FBI. [1:16:04] About what? [1:16:06] That's not what the law says. [1:16:07] How many organizations receiving taxpayer funds did you visit in total? [1:16:12] How many? [1:16:14] How many organizations or ostensible organizations? [1:16:17] Companies, 200. [1:16:20] Of the childcare centers you visited, how many kids did you see? [1:16:26] The only place that I saw children was at KinderCare and New Horizons, [1:16:32] which are, in my opinion, legitimate. [1:16:34] They're large scale. [1:16:35] They have play areas. [1:16:37] And they also receive CCAP money. [1:16:41] But they're the only places that I saw where there were children present. [1:16:46] Ever. [1:16:47] At any of them. [1:16:48] How about the autism centers? [1:16:49] Did you see children? [1:16:51] Did you see patients there? [1:16:52] Never. [1:16:54] So that's not to say there weren't any, but there were never any there. [1:16:58] When I was there, there were never any footprints in the snow. [1:17:00] Same thing. [1:17:03] Mr. Weissman, you're co-president of Public Citizen. [1:17:07] Which describes itself as a consumer advocate and a pro-democracy organization. [1:17:12] Would you agree that the fraud in Minnesota was staggering and shocking? [1:17:20] I agree that there is fraud in Minnesota. [1:17:22] I don't believe these estimates are grounded in any evidence that I've seen. [1:17:25] The $9 billion figure was based on a claim just that, well, I think that half of them must be fraudulent. [1:17:31] I just heard a comment just saying, boost the number up. [1:17:36] But to be clear, and with respect, you missed my testimony. [1:17:39] No question there's fraud in Minnesota. [1:17:40] And absolutely, I share your righteous anger about whatever degree of fraud there was there. [1:17:44] Do you agree that any Democrat politician, or let me be clear, any Republican politician, [1:17:51] that had knowledge of the fraud and was complicit should be prosecuted? [1:17:55] I'm not sure what they're being prosecuted for, but also in my testimony, [1:18:00] I described also, outside of Minnesota, the manifold ways that this administration is enabling fraud. [1:18:08] Look, I understand. [1:18:10] Hold on, hold on, hold on. [1:18:11] The standard is that you want... [1:18:12] Sir. [1:18:13] Sir, I'm going to ask a question, and then you can answer it. [1:18:16] Yes, sir. [1:18:17] Your organization describes itself as a pro-democracy organization. [1:18:21] I'm going to try to find out if you actually are pro-democracy or if you're simply pro-Democrat and are a partisan. [1:18:28] We've seen the Democrats who want to change the topic. [1:18:31] So I get you want to testify how much you hate Donald Trump. [1:18:36] But I'm quite certain Donald Trump was not running a fraudulent daycare center or a fraudulent autism center in Minnesota. [1:18:43] So all of the talking points about how you dislike Trump, set them aside. [1:18:48] We will see the Democrats on this committee go down those talking points. [1:18:52] Do you believe elected politicians in Minnesota who were aware of this fraud and were complicit in it should be prosecuted? [1:19:04] Should there be accountability? [1:19:06] There absolutely should be accountability. [1:19:07] It is not normal to prosecute government officials for not prosecuting fraud. [1:19:12] That is not a standard I'm aware of that you've advocated or that anyone else has advocated in the Senate. [1:19:16] So do you think it's perfectly okay if, let's say, Governor Walz or Attorney General Ellison knew about the fraud, benefited from the fraud in terms of bundling votes, benefited from the frauds in terms of collecting campaign finance violations, and deliberately looked the other way? [1:19:33] You think that's not criminal conduct? [1:19:35] In that hypothetical, it is not okay, 100 percent not okay. [1:19:40] But also, if you'll permit me, that hypothetical is in fact happening throughout this administration. [1:19:45] Yes, I get it. [1:19:46] You dislike Trump. [1:19:47] There's nothing about whether I dislike Trump, Mr. Cruz. [1:19:49] It is whether I have a standard of accountability. [1:19:52] Sir, please do not interrupt me. [1:19:55] Please do not interrupt me. [1:19:58] Please do not interrupt me. [1:20:00] You may answer questions after I ask them. [1:20:04] You've heard the evidence and testimony about daycare centers with no children, with no toys, with no facilities, with windows that are blacked out. [1:20:21] Do you believe it is possible? [1:20:24] That the officials sending millions of dollars to those fake daycare centers and fake autism centers didn't know what was going on? [1:20:32] Well, what I heard was claims about that. [1:20:37] And I, too, have watched the video. [1:20:39] We're both parents. [1:20:40] I'm glad that the child care centers don't open their door for someone who's knocking there. [1:20:45] I don't view that as evidence that the child care centers are fake child care centers, although I'm sure there are some. [1:20:51] My understanding is that state investigators have gone to do that. [1:20:55] State investigators have gone to do their duty at those exact same child centers and have found that most of them actually are operating correctly. [1:21:02] Well, I will say it is disappointing that you had a chance leading a nonprofit that is supposedly pro-democracy to take a principled stand. [1:21:11] Instead, you decided to defend the Somali fraudsters because it benefits elected Democrats. [1:21:16] That's disappointing. [1:21:17] But you know what? [1:21:18] I'm going to give you something you're going to like, an opportunity to say all the ways you dislike President Trump [1:21:23] because I'm going to recognize the ranking member who will surely ask you why Trump is terrible [1:21:28] and do everything you and he can do to change the topic from the actual topic of this hearing. [1:21:33] Ranking member, White House. [1:21:35] Before we get to that, I don't want to leave what seemed to be a pretty flagrant mischaracterization of your testimony [1:21:45] without an opportunity for you to address that mischaracterization, if you would care to begin with that. [1:21:51] I appreciate that. [1:21:52] Just briefly. [1:21:53] I was disagreeing with the premise of the question that we have been displayed this evidence showing criminal wrongdoing. [1:22:01] Obviously, where there is criminal wrongdoing, and I testify to this, I support aggressive investigation and prosecution. [1:22:09] To the degree there is wrongdoing in Minnesota, it should be aggressively investigated and prosecuted. [1:22:15] I'm not sure that the claim that all the evidence we've been presented today is in fact evidence of that, [1:22:20] but I don't deny it for a moment that it is occurring in Minnesota. [1:22:23] Let me ask you another question. [1:22:24] In a democracy, is there a significant difference between private individuals engaging in fraud and self-dealing against the government [1:22:40] and government officials, public officials, engaging in fraud and self-dealing against the government? [1:22:50] They are both wrong, concerning, problematic, but the betrayal by public officials is morally and from a political point of view more consequential. [1:22:59] Yeah. [1:23:00] It's a worse element, isn't it? [1:23:01] So the chairman has pointed out that President Trump did not run a fake daycare. [1:23:13] What are the four or five things that Trump did that used his position to enrich himself and his family at the expense of the American taxpayer? [1:23:26] Well, I've detailed this in my testimony. [1:23:29] Most shockingly is the report from the Wall Street Journal this past weekend. [1:23:32] About a Trump-connected business partnering with UAE in a deal that directly put $187 million in the pockets of the president and his family. [1:23:44] He additionally has joint ventures or elaborate licensing deals with Saudi companies, companies from Qatar. [1:23:51] He's engaged in this elaborate cryptocurrency arrangements that have made him at least $2 billion by independent estimates and maybe even more just in the course of the last year. [1:24:01] And let's look for a moment at the pardon process, which used to be operated under the supervision and scrutiny of the Department of Justice [1:24:16] and now appears to have moved to the lounge at Mar-a-Lago. [1:24:21] It seems that there is a pay-to-play arrangement by which people can acquire pardons. [1:24:33] Can you elaborate on that? [1:24:36] Yeah. [1:24:37] Well, the president used his pardon power aggressively, and I don't begrudge him for doing that whatsoever. [1:24:42] But what is shocking is that leaving aside the January 6th pardons, they've been so heavily focused on those who've committed white-collar crimes and particularly fraud. [1:24:51] Blood crimes. [1:24:52] People who have committed those crimes, shown no remorse for those crimes, owed restitution for those crimes or excused for restitution for those crimes, [1:25:01] and who appear to be getting off because of their connection to the president, [1:25:05] because they've hired high-priced lobbyists to get them there, or they or their families have made contributions to the president's political committees or those that benefit him directly. [1:25:16] Do you think that fits into what the public generally understands to be pay-to-play? [1:25:22] Yes, sir. [1:25:23] So we are now in a political environment in government in which the cops basically have been defunded or fired. [1:25:43] The inspectors general have the job of rooting out fraud and corruption. [1:25:48] What's the Trump administration doing if it's concerned about fraud and corruption with the inspector general corps of the United States? [1:25:59] Well, I don't believe it is concerned about fraud and corruption. [1:26:02] I believe it's effectively advancing fraud and corruption, including by eviscerating the IG community. [1:26:08] As I mentioned, two-thirds of the IGs presidentially appointed have been fired by this president, [1:26:13] and the IG staffs are massively diminished. [1:26:15] In just one year, these are the agencies that are in charge of doing exactly what we're talking about in Minnesota. [1:26:21] It's their job to find that kind of fraud. [1:26:24] If there was a genuine commitment to being worried about that fraud, not for partisan reasons, but because we actually cared about fraud, [1:26:30] we'd be, as Senator Grassley said, supporting and strengthening that IG community, not cutting it off at the knees. [1:26:37] My time is up, and I've paid the members the courtesy of staying within my time. [1:26:43] Senator Schmidt. [1:26:46] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [1:26:47] American citizens. [1:26:48] American citizenship is a gift, but also a sacred duty. [1:26:51] It comes with extraordinary rights and important responsibilities. [1:26:54] Responsibilities are a precondition to those rights. [1:26:58] That's why our forefathers created strict rules for naturalizing new citizens. [1:27:02] On the front end, those who wish to become Americans must prove they are persons of good moral character, [1:27:07] of loyalty to our country, and attached to our Constitution. [1:27:10] On the back end, we have the ability to revoke the citizenship of those who lie or deceive us in the process of securing it. [1:27:19] And to maintain those standards of citizenship be debased. [1:27:23] Look at the stories of just the past few months. [1:27:25] In Minneapolis, case after case, naturalized US citizens behaving in ways that show, beyond any shadow of a doubt, [1:27:32] that they were never fit for citizenship in the first place. [1:27:37] In Minnesota, naturalized citizens defrauded our government for billions of dollars. [1:27:41] One individual stole almost $1.7 million from a program intended for poor children. [1:27:44] Just today, a naturalized citizen in Massachusetts pled guilty to stealing over a million dollars from our government, [1:27:47] not even once. [1:27:48] stealing over a million dollars from our welfare programs. Something has to change. It's why I've [1:27:53] introduced the SCAM Act to expand and accelerate our ability to denaturalize people who should [1:27:58] have never become citizens in the first place. If you use your new citizenship to commit massive [1:28:04] welfare fraud, aggravated felonies, or espionage, or join drug cartels or terrorist organizations, [1:28:10] you were never fit to be called an American at all. I encourage my colleagues on this committee [1:28:15] to support that important legislation. Now, Mr. Weissman, you are the co-CEO of Public Citizens, [1:28:21] is that correct? Co-president, yes, sir. Okay, president, okay. Is welfare and grant fraud in [1:28:25] the national public interest? I'm sorry? Is welfare and grant fraud in the national public [1:28:31] interest? It is 100% contrary to the national interest. Okay, but taking it on would also be [1:28:36] in the national interest, correct? Taking it on is absolutely in the American interest. Is fraud [1:28:39] prevention in the, I'm sorry, is fraud prevention racist? Fraud prevention is not racist, no. Okay. [1:28:46] Are current fraud prevention efforts by the Trump administration in Minnesota racist? No. Okay. [1:28:53] Are deportations racist? Are deportations racist? It depends. They can be racist, for sure. Okay. [1:28:59] Is ICE racist? I think the practices of ICE right now are abhorrent and should be abhorrent, [1:29:04] exactly as you said, for American values. I think the practices of ICE right now are- [1:29:07] But ICE itself, the organization is a racist. Enforcing immigration and customs laws per se [1:29:13] is not racist. What ICE actually is doing, I believe, can fairly be characterized as racist, [1:29:17] sir. Okay. All right. [1:29:18] This is because we did a little bit of digging into Public Citizen and found two things. One is [1:29:24] you're funded by George Soros, correct? The Open Society Foundation is one of our funders, yes. [1:29:30] And you call just about everything you don't like racist. That is not true, but- [1:29:35] Okay. Well, I'm going to give you a few examples. Sure. [1:29:37] On December 11th, 2019, Public Citizen tweeted that the banking sector as a whole is racist. [1:29:44] On August 17th, 2021, Public Citizen sent in a press release that algorithmic racism was a major [1:29:50] problem and that we need to start creating anti-racist algorithms. On December 23rd, 2020, [1:29:56] Public Citizen tweeted that our healthcare system is a racist abomination. On April 17th, [1:30:02] or on April 7th, 2023, Public Citizen tweeted that expelling two Tennessee state reps for [1:30:08] violating the legislature's rule was racism. On April 15th, 2021, Public Citizen tweeted that [1:30:14] law enforcement in this country has been overrun by racism. On June 25th, 2020, Public Citizen [1:30:21] tweeted that racism is the reason D.C. is not a state. On January 15th, 2019, Public Citizen [1:30:27] tweeted that asking about citizenship status on the census was racist. On August 24th, 2020, [1:30:33] Public Citizen tweeted, defund our racist, hyper-militarized, murderous American police force. [1:30:41] On July 10th, 2020, Public Citizen tweeted that law and order is a racist dog whistle. [1:30:49] Do you stand by these statements? [1:30:50] Well, I appreciate the depths of which you've gone of research. In the context of all those [1:30:54] statements, you've done a great job. I appreciate the depth of what you've done. I appreciate the [1:30:54] depth of what you've done. Yes, sir. [1:30:54] So all of those things are racist? [1:30:56] If you want to go through them, we can talk about them. [1:30:58] So here's, I'm really glad. [1:31:00] No, no, hold on. I'm glad for this moment of clarity because a lot of witnesses would try [1:31:03] to sidestep that. [1:31:05] That's correct. [1:31:05] But what you have shown in the questioning we've seen before, in just these examples, [1:31:09] the public interest isn't your interest at all. It is not your interest at all. You use racism [1:31:14] as an attempt to intimidate people to get your way. And it's not 2020 anymore. The American [1:31:19] people are over it. So what you're going to find is we are going to prosecute, and it has nothing [1:31:24] do with race we're going to prosecute because fraud was committed on a level that is so [1:31:28] offensive to this country your words that don't mean anything aren't going to stop what's coming [1:31:33] and i want you to take that back to george soros and all these ridiculous funders you have [1:31:38] to try to muddle the issue because justice is coming and by the way if i have it my way we [1:31:43] will denaturalize all these fraudsters and send them home mr chairman i'm out of time senator [1:31:49] gerrano thank you mr chairman this is a hearing about fraud and i would say that that includes [1:31:59] corruption political corruption and so i want to talk about political corruption in this regime [1:32:05] there are so many examples of political corruption in this administration in this regime [1:32:10] and the thing is that what is astounding to me is that this corruption which is fraudulent cost [1:32:16] people money is so overt and i know that that at least mr weiss [1:32:22] man has talked about some of this corruption but let me just repeat some of this because i think [1:32:28] it's important for our american people to know what is overtly happening in our country that [1:32:33] constitutes political corruption and in my view fraud for example president trump accepted a 400 [1:32:41] million dollar jet from cutter that he plans to keep he plans to keep after his time in office [1:32:48] what is that over members of trump's team [1:32:52] including cash patel and christine noam use taxpayer-funded private jets for personal [1:32:58] travel to visit with girlfriends to go to golf courses overt tech billionaires have received [1:33:07] special access to the white house in exchange for paying for the president's new ballroom in the [1:33:14] east wing and as noted a lot of these tech billionaires want something from the white house [1:33:23] that's why they're doing this i'd say you know it it's practically extortion if not extortion [1:33:30] for this kind of overt kind of corruption to be happening and then trump's family [1:33:35] has made at least five billion dollars from the same cryptocurrency market that trump's [1:33:41] administration refuses to regulate and in case anyone needs a reminder [1:33:48] the president himself was convicted of 34 34 felony [1:33:54] counts of falsifying business records that is called fraud mr weissman i want to ask you a few [1:34:02] questions about all of this overt corruption now as mentioned trump has pardoned dozens of people [1:34:11] including several of his billionaire buddies many of these pardons followed one million dollar or [1:34:17] more contributions to support the trump campaign from friends and family of the convicted criminals [1:34:25] for example trevor milton was serving a four-year prison sentence and owed 695 million dollars [1:34:34] 695 million dollars in restitution to victims and he was pardoned so all that restitution money [1:34:42] forget it forgiven pardoned by trump after he and his wife contributed almost two million dollars [1:34:49] to support trump's campaign paul walsak owed 4.4 million dollars in restitution to victims and was [1:34:56] pardoned by trump for serving an 18-month sentence when trump pardoned him following walsak's mother [1:35:03] spending one million dollars to attend a trump fundraiser julio herrera was pardoned after his [1:35:11] daughter contributed one million dollars to a trump super pact mr weissman do you see a pattern here [1:35:19] i think the pattern is exactly what you're saying senator which is that people who've made [1:35:23] contributions to the president's political committees or who have hired [1:35:27] their own people who have spent a lot of money the people who are close to the president [1:35:31] have managed to finagle uh pardons without showing any remorse and irrespective of the harms they [1:35:38] perpetrated on victims hundreds of millions of dollars literally in restitution out the window [1:35:43] so what do you call this kind of behavior i call it corruption and do you do you think that uh this [1:35:50] pattern of trump basically holding out his hand and extracting all this money from people for [1:35:56] pardons and everything else [1:35:58] i think that that pattern will cease i think there is a zero percent chance of it ceasing unless [1:36:05] the people and this congress demand that it does so i do want to mention you know that the doj is [1:36:14] actually uh doing an investigation in fact they're following up on a lawsuit that was originally [1:36:20] filed by biden against ticketmaster which sells tickets owns venues contracts with major [1:36:27] performers uh that they pretty much run the whole show and this allows the [1:36:34] biden administration to sue ticketmaster to literally screw over fans and so the biden [1:36:39] administration sued them for anti-competitive practices now what hopes that this lawsuit will [1:36:46] continue but to now we are hearing that well-connected trump world lobbyists are pursuing [1:36:51] the trump doj to drop the case and this is reminiscent of these same lobbyists getting [1:36:58] the trump doj to drop another lawsuit um from going forward and they did so so would you be [1:37:04] surprised if this ticketmaster lawsuit goes away and the ticketmaster consumers customers which [1:37:11] number in the millions will continue to get screwed would it be surprised if this lawsuit goes [1:37:16] away i would not be surprised okay there you go corruption rampant senator cornyn am i pronouncing [1:37:37] your last name correctly mr hawk hope thank you mr hulk uh do you think this kind of fraud is [1:37:44] isolated to in minnesota do you think it's pervasive do you think it just is a case of [1:37:55] a child care fraud or would it apply to more broadly to various non-governmental organizations [1:38:02] that are given contracts by the federal gate uh different federal departments here why don't you [1:38:10] get your microphones up there yes sir i think it covers almost every organization non-profits [1:38:15] ngos uh health care adult daycare autism centers and so i want to go back to something that mr [1:38:25] weissman said so this is the second time now that he has questioned my [1:38:29] data well let me discredited so i offered in my second video a hundred thousand dollars anybody [1:38:36] who could prove my data wrong so i stand by it okay i'm sorry senator no i you'll you'll have [1:38:42] plenty of chance to to refute uh refute what you disagree with there but so not limited to [1:38:50] daycare not limited to minnesota um are you continuing your investigation beyond minnesota [1:39:02] i am and i've heard from every state in the country [1:39:05] where people are uncovering the same sorts of fraud i can't say it's exactly the same [1:39:11] but i'm every day i'm getting emails i'm getting messages you know i'm in ohio i'm in washington i'm [1:39:17] in california the texas all over we're finding the same types of fraud here and i just i can't [1:39:25] it's so massive that i can't possibly help everybody mr chairman i have a document uh [1:39:33] published by the board of governors of the federal reserve system [1:39:38] non-profit organizations total assets level uh dated january the 9th 2026 i'd ask unanimous [1:39:44] consent to make that part of the record without objection will be admitted so this document and [1:39:50] i'm happy to show it to you shows that there are 13 trillion dollars 13 trillion dollars in total [1:40:01] assets that are in the hands of ngos or non-profit organizations does that number shock you like it [1:40:13] shocks me [1:40:16] 13 trillion well senator i think what happens is we've become desensitized to [1:40:22] these big numbers because we hear them so often it's a shocking number all on its own yes [1:40:29] so the it strikes me part of the problem is when the u.s congress appropriates money [1:40:35] they're appropriated usually to federal agencies and then they then contract with ngos and others [1:40:45] and i think one of the things we need to look at is what the those contracts are going to be in the [1:40:48] future and i think that's one of the things we need to look at is what the those contracts are going [1:40:51] to be in the future and i think that's one of the things we need to look at is what the those contracts [1:40:56] provide for and particularly with regard to the requirement for audits on a periodic basis but [1:41:05] you're concerned about fraud being more pervasive and extending beyond somali child care and in [1:41:11] minnesota would it also extend to these 13 trillion dollars in the hands of non-governmental [1:41:18] organizations there's certainly going to be a a good portion of that that is fraud now one of the [1:41:22] things that i've been concerned about is the fact that the state has been trying to find a number on [1:41:26] the amount of fraud is because four times i've requested from the state of minnesota the data [1:41:32] for the payments the medicaid payments going to these transportation companies and remember in the [1:41:38] video nick and i went and none of them existed one was a liquor store one was a grocery store [1:41:43] one was a mailbox and so the state won't turn over to me the amount of money that these companies are [1:41:49] getting that's why i had to take a national average in the video and that's how i came up with the [1:41:53] pwc so the law says that there is no penalty how much money we could be taxed based upon the [1:41:58] amount of money stolen in this smully daycare uh operation so what how how how can that money [1:42:05] be recouped if it can well you're never going to get it all back but again we have to stop worrying [1:42:10] about suitcases full of cash at the airport and transfer wires going to saudi arabia and kenya [1:42:15] and all these other places you got to cut the money off at the source and you got to go to [1:42:19] these social service agencies and and tell them if you write a fraudulent check [1:42:24] run the risk of going to prison, period. [1:42:27] You have to have that sitting there [1:42:29] so they're gonna think twice before the issue of payment [1:42:31] because they might end up in prison because it's a felony. [1:42:35] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [1:42:38] Thank you. Senator Graham. [1:42:42] You're telling me that there are companies that are listed [1:42:47] that receive transportation payments that don't exist. [1:42:52] When I say they don't exist, [1:42:54] all they are is registered with the state of Minnesota. [1:42:58] They're a slip of paper. [1:42:59] They don't exist. [1:43:00] They have no office. [1:43:01] They have no assets. [1:43:02] So it's a scam. [1:43:03] It's a total scam. [1:43:04] So here's to the people of Minnesota. [1:43:06] Your governor, you better answer these questions. [1:43:11] What can we do? [1:43:12] We can get you here and hold you accountable [1:43:15] for the programs you're running in Minnesota. [1:43:17] Ms. Robbins, are you here to tell me [1:43:20] that the system in Minnesota is broken [1:43:22] and you're having a hard time getting people to help you? [1:43:26] Thank you. [1:43:27] The system is absolutely broken. [1:43:29] There are fraud on multiple levels. [1:43:31] There are failures, [1:43:32] there are internal controls, [1:43:33] and finally we have help from the feds. [1:43:35] And you're telling me your state has not been responsive? [1:43:38] No, they have actively, I would say, [1:43:42] harmed whistleblowers who tried to point it out, [1:43:45] and they have tried to shut down investigations. [1:43:47] You said fake meals for fake kids. [1:43:50] Yes. [1:43:51] Would it help if you had [1:43:53] to biometrically identify recipients of aid, [1:43:56] that they'd have to be biometrically identified [1:44:00] to prove they exist? [1:44:02] I think it certainly would help. [1:44:03] I'm not sure. [1:44:04] I'm a privacy advocate, [1:44:06] so I'd want to understand the details of that. [1:44:07] Well, number one, prove you exist. [1:44:10] Yes, prove you exist. [1:44:11] Like, very basic. [1:44:12] That's not a privacy problem. [1:44:14] If I'm going to give you money, [1:44:16] is it too much to ask that you prove you exist? [1:44:18] No, that's why we need documentation. [1:44:20] Well, that's coming. [1:44:21] Not attestation. [1:44:22] We're going to fix this. [1:44:26] It's coming. [1:44:27] We're not going to sit on the sidelines [1:44:29] and watch billions of dollars go to organizations [1:44:33] that don't exist, [1:44:35] rows of daycare facilities, [1:44:37] that don't provide daycare. [1:44:39] It's in Minnesota. [1:44:41] Bless you both for trying to fix it. [1:44:44] Is there any doubt, Mr. Hoke, [1:44:46] to the extent of the problem [1:44:51] that is billions in Minnesota? [1:44:53] Again, we don't know what the number's going to be. [1:44:57] It's going to be... [1:44:58] It could be 80 billion if you go back... [1:45:00] You just don't know? [1:45:01] We don't know, [1:45:03] but to the point about politicians knowing so, [1:45:06] I filed a criminal complaint against Governor Walz [1:45:09] for violating the law for not reporting... [1:45:12] I just... [1:45:12] I think when you ask the Medicaid services in Minnesota, [1:45:17] tell us who you give money to, [1:45:20] that's not unreasonable. [1:45:21] So what I would think this committee should do, [1:45:23] quite frankly, [1:45:24] is that we should ask for an accounting. [1:45:27] When Minnesota sends pay... [1:45:33] wants to get reimbursed for SNAP benefits, [1:45:36] are you familiar with the SNAP program? [1:45:37] Yes, sir. [1:45:38] Do you have to provide names who got the benefits, [1:45:40] or do they just give you a number? [1:45:42] My understanding is that there is a list, [1:45:45] and the federal government is trying to get it from me, [1:45:47] but... [1:45:48] Well, I'm telling you we can't. [1:45:50] Right, they're stonewalling. [1:45:52] That's right, they're stonewalling. [1:45:54] Taxpayers, minority taxpayers, [1:45:58] no matter what the color of your skin, [1:46:01] you work hard for your money, [1:46:03] and the people at the top in Minnesota [1:46:07] are trying to perpetuate the fraud, in my view. [1:46:10] You can say what you want to about Trump, [1:46:12] that's not why we're here. [1:46:14] Seems to me that we would want to make sure [1:46:18] that a transportation company on paper [1:46:21] actually exists. [1:46:23] It seems to me that if we want to feed a kid, [1:46:25] they actually exist. [1:46:27] And you know what? [1:46:29] They're not giving us the data [1:46:31] to prove that they actually exist. [1:46:33] So, how in the world can we, [1:46:37] as the federal government, [1:46:39] allow this to continue? [1:46:40] We are not. [1:46:42] Ms. Robinson, are you begging us to help you? [1:46:44] Yes, and we're grateful for the help [1:46:47] that's come recently from the Trump administration [1:46:49] and from our partners here in these committees. [1:46:51] Mr. Hoke, are you begging this committee to help you? [1:46:53] Yes. [1:46:55] Message received. [1:46:57] Mr. Wiseman, I don't want to waste your time or mine. [1:47:00] Bottom line is, [1:47:01] we're going to find a way to help the taxpayer. [1:47:05] I don't mind. [1:47:07] I like feeding kids who are hungry [1:47:09] and can't afford to get a meal [1:47:11] unless they get one at school. [1:47:13] I don't mind helping Medicaid people [1:47:15] to get to where they want to go. [1:47:16] I do mind when we're getting ripped off, [1:47:20] and to the leadership of Minnesota, [1:47:24] your day is coming. [1:47:26] And if you think it's just Minnesota, [1:47:29] Senator Cornyn, you're right. [1:47:30] It's everywhere. [1:47:31] And we're going to find it. [1:47:34] That's the least we can do [1:47:37] as managers of these programs. [1:47:39] God bless you all. [1:47:40] Thank you. [1:47:42] Senator Lee. [1:47:44] Thank you, Mr. Chairman, [1:47:45] for organizing this hearing. [1:47:46] Thanks to each of you for being here. [1:47:47] The United States of America [1:47:48] is one of the most generous countries [1:47:50] in the entire world. [1:47:51] It also happens to be [1:47:53] one of the most upwardly mobile countries [1:47:55] in the entire world. [1:47:56] It's somewhat unique [1:47:57] in the sense that a person can be born into poverty here [1:48:00] or arrive here as poverty, [1:48:01] as a refugee or otherwise, [1:48:03] and have the reasonable hope and expectation [1:48:05] if they work hard, [1:48:06] one day they are likely to be able to retire [1:48:08] comfortably, if not wealthy. [1:48:10] This requires access, [1:48:12] not so much to government programs [1:48:14] as to robust institutions of civil society [1:48:18] and free markets. [1:48:19] More than anything else, [1:48:20] much as many would like [1:48:21] to have us believe otherwise. [1:48:23] Key to those institutions of civil society [1:48:26] are these charitable activities [1:48:28] to which I referred. [1:48:30] Americans donate nearly $600 billion a year [1:48:33] in charity every single year. [1:48:35] This in addition to an estimated $1.8 trillion annually [1:48:39] that federal and state governments spend [1:48:42] on anti-poverty welfare programs, [1:48:45] not including things like Medicare and Social Security [1:48:48] that are about retirement [1:48:50] rather than anti-poverty measures. [1:48:53] Now, if you ask almost anyone [1:48:56] which of those programs, [1:48:59] whether a government program, [1:49:00] whether state or federal, [1:49:01] or very often it's a state program [1:49:04] administered by states [1:49:05] with a lot of federal funding, [1:49:07] sometimes it's one or the other, [1:49:08] very often there's a mixture. [1:49:10] If you ask them what has a greater chance [1:49:13] of achieving what I think should always be [1:49:15] the ideal of any welfare system, [1:49:17] the objective, [1:49:18] which is to make poverty temporary [1:49:21] rather than tolerable, [1:49:23] I think 9 out of 10, [1:49:25] perhaps 99 out of 100 individuals, [1:49:27] would say that it is a privately funded [1:49:30] welfare program. [1:49:32] Why? [1:49:34] Well, because they're set up in such a way [1:49:36] that they can be much more about the individual. [1:49:38] They can be much more about identifying ways [1:49:41] in which you can make poverty temporary [1:49:43] rather than tolerable. [1:49:45] In fact, one could argue [1:49:46] that for these government programs making, [1:49:49] it's even too complimentary [1:49:51] of many of the government programs [1:49:52] to say that the objective is to make poverty tolerable [1:49:54] rather than temporary. [1:49:57] Very often the objective is to facilitate [1:49:59] the very kind of waste, fraud, and abuse [1:50:01] that we see here, [1:50:02] that we're examining here today, [1:50:04] in a relatively discrete part of the country [1:50:07] involving the Somali community [1:50:09] in one state, Minnesota. [1:50:11] So, lest we delude ourselves [1:50:14] into thinking that this is an aberration, [1:50:16] lest we delude ourselves, alternatively, [1:50:18] into thinking that, [1:50:19] oh, all we need are better, smarter managers, [1:50:22] more efficient people, [1:50:24] who will suddenly identify [1:50:25] and become enlightened as to best practices [1:50:27] to make sure this doesn't happen, [1:50:29] this is what this thing does. [1:50:31] You don't put a hornet's nest in your child's bedroom [1:50:33] and expect that it won't cause problems at some point. [1:50:35] You don't release blank checks [1:50:37] and allow those blank checks to be cashed at will [1:50:41] by people who are not directly paying the bill [1:50:43] because somebody else is, [1:50:44] 350 million Americans are sharing in that burden, [1:50:47] and expect there not to be fraud, [1:50:49] not just occasional fraud, [1:50:50] but massive, earth-shaking kinds of fraud [1:50:53] that cause people to lose faith in the system. [1:50:55] Meanwhile, what is it getting us? [1:50:58] Under these systems, [1:50:59] particularly the federally funded state-administered programs, [1:51:02] under what circumstances do we have evidence [1:51:05] that this is making poverty temporary rather than tolerable? [1:51:09] And in what circumstances do we have evidence [1:51:11] that it's not facilitating fraud? [1:51:14] So let's not kid ourselves. [1:51:16] This is, if anything, the tip of the tip of the iceberg. [1:51:20] It happened to manifest itself very well [1:51:22] because of Nick Shirley and a few other brave journalists [1:51:25] who stepped into the fray on this one [1:51:28] and have taken a lot of heat as a result. [1:51:30] But I suspect that this is the tip of the tip [1:51:33] of the tip of the iceberg. [1:51:35] Mr. Hope, in your view, [1:51:38] did the Minnesota state government, [1:51:41] either through incompetence or willful ignorance, [1:51:45] reckless blindness or otherwise, [1:51:47] did it enable the Somali fraud in Minnesota? [1:51:49] Yes. [1:51:50] How did it do that? [1:51:51] Complicity. [1:51:52] Complicity. [1:51:53] Complicity with what degree of awareness [1:51:55] as to the level of fraud that was being undertaken? [1:51:59] 100%. [1:52:00] 100%. [1:52:01] So this was not a bug, was it? [1:52:04] This was a feature. [1:52:07] When we look at the fact that the federal government [1:52:09] is $38.5 trillion in debt, [1:52:12] when we look at the fact that we have impoverished Americans, [1:52:14] keep in mind, when we spend this much money that we don't have, [1:52:17] adding to that $38.5 trillion debt at a staggering rate, [1:52:20] approaching $2 trillion a year, [1:52:23] what does that do? [1:52:25] I'll give you a hint. [1:52:26] It is not the rich people who suffer. [1:52:28] Rich people find ways of getting even richer [1:52:31] during times of tremendous inflation. [1:52:34] It is hardworking Americans, especially poor Americans [1:52:38] and middle-class Americans who are living paycheck to paycheck. [1:52:41] They are the ones who suffer. [1:52:44] And damn all of us if we don't look out for them. [1:52:47] Shame on all of us if we don't fix this. [1:52:49] And by fix it, I don't mean get smarter people at better procedures. [1:52:52] I mean, maybe we should start looking at the fact [1:52:54] that our Constitution puts this government in charge of a few things. [1:52:58] National defense, wage and measures, trademark copyrights and patents, [1:53:01] regulating trade or commerce between the states with foreign nations [1:53:04] and with the tribes. [1:53:05] There are a few others, but that's the lion's share of the power. [1:53:08] We were not equipped from the beginning to be a welfare agency. [1:53:14] The word welfare appears exactly twice in the Constitution. [1:53:17] Once in a non-operative, non-authority granting preamble [1:53:22] and a second time in the spending clause, [1:53:24] which was included as a limitation on the spending power [1:53:27] rather than an expansion of it. [1:53:29] There is no power to just look out for people generally. [1:53:32] Unless we rely on a bastardized version of the Constitution [1:53:35] that has driven us into $38.5 trillion in debt, [1:53:38] crippling poor and middle-class Americans, [1:53:40] with destabilizing inflation, [1:53:44] inflation that it makes it impossible to raise a family in this country. [1:53:47] And shame on all of us if we don't take this as a severe wake-up call, [1:53:52] because this is going on all the time. [1:53:55] Thank you. [1:53:56] Thank you, Senator Lee. [1:54:00] This concludes today's hearing, [1:54:02] although I will note that Governor Walz and Attorney General Ellison [1:54:07] and Mayor Frey were invited. [1:54:09] They could have come here and answered questions. [1:54:11] They could have presented some sort of defense [1:54:14] that they were not, as Mr. Hoke just put it, [1:54:17] 100% aware, 100% complicit, [1:54:20] and indeed personally and politically benefiting [1:54:23] from robbing the Minnesota taxpayers. [1:54:26] They chose not to do so. [1:54:29] But I'll make clear that invitation remains open. [1:54:32] Governor Walz is welcome to come to this committee. [1:54:34] Attorney General Ellison is welcome to come to this committee. [1:54:38] Mayor Frey is welcome to come to this committee. [1:54:40] And I'll tell you this, I won't hold my breath waiting [1:54:44] because all three have entered witness protection [1:54:46] when it comes to fraud in the state of Minnesota. [1:54:49] Written questions can be submitted for the record [1:54:53] until Wednesday, February 11th at 5 p.m. [1:54:56] And I will ask the witnesses to answer and return [1:54:59] the answers to the questions to the committee [1:55:02] by February 25th at 5 p.m. [1:55:05] And with that, this hearing is adjourned.