Senate Caucus On International Narcotics Control Holds Hearing On Drug Cartels

[2:17:18] cells can rep, so whether it's on the drug side or the money side, you have money laundering [2:17:24] cells under the umbrella of Chinese money launderers. [2:17:26] I think in terms of what you were talking about in terms of solutions, the first one [2:17:31] is the legislation, the fact that enriched information that's transparent and accurate, [2:17:40] they can identify the network and take action. [2:17:43] The second part of this is funding. [2:17:45] I think we haven't kept pace with the scale which this happened, we've already described [2:17:50] it, so you need specific funding and a unit stood up that's tailored and funded, fully [2:17:58] funded to go after Chinese money launderers around the globe and utilizing sanctions, utilizing [2:18:05] the FEND Act, which is a very low threshold for impact, and then utilizing any other authorities [2:18:11] that we have, and there are many, to go after specific cells that operate in the United States. [2:18:16] And lastly, these same Chinese money launderers are moving, whether it's illegal fishing, [2:18:22] whether it's prostitution, whether it's human smuggling, various components of organized [2:18:26] crime, and for the top tier operators of Chinese money launderers, you could use the racketeering [2:18:30] laws of the United States. [2:18:32] So they exist in plain sight, a lot of these people. [2:18:37] It's an attack strategy where you go after them aggressively with authorities that make [2:18:41] sense at the time. [2:18:43] I'm going to ask the remaining two witnesses to respond as questions for the record, because [2:18:48] I've used up more than all of my time. [2:18:51] But I would be interested in your responses, if you wouldn't mind taking a moment to write [2:18:55] down your response after the fact. [2:18:59] Thank you. [2:19:00] Senator Lujan. [2:19:01] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [2:19:02] I very much appreciated your questioning on how much fentanyl is, drugs, illicit substances [2:19:12] are coming into the United States through our borders. [2:19:17] How little is inspected. [2:19:19] If I'm not mistaken, Mr. Chairman, back in 2020 and 21, a lot of us worked with you, and [2:19:26] we received your support, which I appreciate your leadership. [2:19:30] Senator Whitehouse, you were a part of this as well, where there was legislation passed [2:19:33] in 2020 that required the Department of Homeland Security to submit a report to Congress how [2:19:39] how to achieve 100% screening on our southern border. [2:19:43] And they did a report. [2:19:45] It was due in 2021, but it came back, and it ultimately resulted in a little more than [2:19:50] a billion dollars for something called Recon 2.0, a $1.1 billion investment. [2:20:05] $1.1 billion, I mean, they might be able to design an ad campaign with that much money. [2:20:15] If the United States goes back and does the analysis on what it took to get to TSA-compliant [2:20:20] post 9-11 security, a technology that was developed at one of our national labs that came out of [2:20:28] brain imaging, we need to build that to scale so that cars can drive through it, cargo ships [2:20:34] can drive through it, cargo containers coming into our ports can go through it as opposed [2:20:40] to getting offloaded at a ship, and then they put on a truck, and then the truck drives [2:20:44] to an inland facility, and then the cartels steal the precursor chemicals in the United [2:20:48] States, drive them to Mexico, and then it comes back as fentanyl. [2:20:52] I see heads nodding with me in agreement here, because that's the truth. [2:20:55] That's what's happening with all this stuff. [2:20:58] Well, my Republican colleagues led an effort during Big Beautiful Bill and Reconciliation [2:21:03] 2. [2:21:04] Homeland Security now has more money than the Marines do. [2:21:07] So this administration could do something significant and make me look like I didn't know what I was [2:21:14] doing when I voted against it. [2:21:17] We could get to 100% screening now if they moved that from $1.1 billion to just $10 billion, [2:21:22] worked with our national labs, worked with the intelligence community, developed screening [2:21:27] that would help us in America. [2:21:28] I believe that we could achieve 100% screening inbound and outbound, and there's a few pilot [2:21:33] projects now that are proving to be positive for large cargo containers. [2:21:38] But if I'm not mistaken, under Biden, Trump won and Biden, the reports that came back from [2:21:44] DHS were similar. [2:21:45] It was like less than 10% of cargo vehicles were screened coming into the southern border. [2:21:50] 90% of the fentanyl that was seized at the southern border, if I have my numbers correct, [2:21:55] came from passenger vehicles driven by women, younger women, because that was less likely [2:22:00] to get screened. [2:22:02] You were in a nice little, I don't want to call out one company because I'll get calls [2:22:06] from some CEO or something. [2:22:08] But one little cargo car, one small little passenger car, driven by a younger woman, you were [2:22:13] less likely to get stopped and searched. [2:22:16] That's where we know the fentanyl was coming in, just in cars. [2:22:20] And so, Chairman, I want to applaud you for that line of questioning. [2:22:23] I think there's something we can do here. [2:22:25] And I would invite all the experts, everyone watching, you know, Secretary Mark Wayne Mullen, [2:22:31] get these folks in gear, man, and get this science and tech directorate in a way where [2:22:35] I think we can do something meaningful. [2:22:37] And what I would hope we would see here, Chairman, is 100% screening, not just inbound, 100% screening [2:22:43] outbound. [2:22:45] So Senator Whitehouse, to your question, if people are driving money out or whatever, [2:22:49] they're not using crypto, but they're starting to move guns or ammo or they're using other [2:22:53] things of value and we're shipping them out of the states, we can find them too. [2:22:57] And I just certainly hope that with the investment that we see now and the money available, because [2:23:02] money's not an issue right now to Homeland Security, that we could get there. [2:23:06] So just want to applaud you there, Mr. Chairman, I hope we can get something meaningful done [2:23:09] in that space. [2:23:13] I just have one last question. [2:23:16] President Xi of the People's Republic of China, in his public remarks from time to time, [2:23:22] will talk about the century of humiliation for China. [2:23:28] And this is a concept for a period of history beginning with the end of the first Opium War [2:23:36] and terminating with the establishment of the People's Republic of China under Communist Party [2:23:42] rule in 1949. [2:23:45] So I just want to get your reaction to this. [2:23:47] I know a lot of the precursors that are necessary to manufacture fentanyl in Mexico come from China. [2:23:57] And I know different administrations have tried to negotiate some sort of enforcement operation [2:24:03] with the Chinese government itself. [2:24:08] And I realize some of these precursors have more than one use. [2:24:13] In other words, they have legitimate uses as well as illegitimate uses. [2:24:18] But I'd be hard to state a circumstance under which a foreign country was so involved in [2:24:30] a process which ultimately led to the death of tens of thousands of Americans without some [2:24:36] sort of repercussion. [2:24:39] And I just wonder, Mr. Urban, Mr. Brown, and actually all the witnesses, can you give us your views on [2:24:48] Chinese cooperation, on the precursors that are necessary for the manufacturing of fentanyl in Mexico? [2:24:55] Mr. Urban? [2:24:58] I mean, it's limited. [2:25:01] If we had access to data and they decided to enforce compliance to Western standards to Chinese [2:25:08] multinational chemical companies, you know, it would be difficult for those precursors [2:25:12] to get to the Mexican cartels. [2:25:14] And if they shared data on a basis where we could affect, you know, our investigations. [2:25:22] Lastly, listen, the Chinese control what's happening within China. [2:25:26] So they can control those companies, and it's that simple at some point. [2:25:31] They seem pretty good at controlling their population and the mass surveillance of their people. [2:25:37] Mr. Brown, do you have any additional thoughts on that topic? [2:25:41] Yeah, I think one of the additional challenges is the evolution of what I call narcochemistry, right? [2:25:47] Ten years ago, we knew if it was potassium, protagonate, we could go after it. [2:25:50] We regulated it. [2:25:52] But the chemists now have come up with what we call the pre-precursors, where you could [2:25:56] basically go into Home Depot, not that Home Depot's involved, but you could go into a hardware [2:26:00] store and buy pre-precursors, mix them, and create a stage one or stage two precursor. [2:26:06] So the science has gotten more technical to now where the Mexican traffickers and the [2:26:11] cooks are working in conjunction with the cooks in China who say, hey, here's a new [2:26:16] recipe for methamphetamine. [2:26:18] Here's a new recipe for fentanyl. [2:26:20] So that adds on to the additional challenges of working with China at the bilateral level [2:26:26] on regulating some of these now pre-precursors, which do have legitimate use. [2:26:31] And getting back to the theme of this hearing, these individuals that are able to take those [2:26:38] precursors and produce fentanyl from those, they can operate anywhere in the world. [2:26:43] Dr. Philbaugh-Brown, do you have any observations? [2:26:47] I would add one important comment, and that is that several US administrations, the Obama [2:26:57] administration, the first Trump administration, the Biden administration, and the second Trump [2:27:02] administration all negotiated with China to schedule either fentanyl or analogs of fentanyl [2:27:08] or a variety of precursors. [2:27:10] And after a lot of bargaining, diplomacy, at which China has become distressingly effective, [2:27:15] China does it. [2:27:16] Each time China schedules, Chinese traffickers move to non-scheduled precursors, often teaching [2:27:24] their clients, such as Mexican cartels, how to produce meth or fentanyl. [2:27:31] The core loophole remains unaddressed and has remained unaddressed across the second Trump administration, [2:27:39] despite the imposition of tariffs on China and the bargaining that we have seen. [2:27:45] Chinese laws do not contain material support clauses, racketeering clauses, know your customer [2:27:51] requirements. [2:27:52] And so as long as Chinese traffickers move non-scheduled chemicals, they can be Chinese traders. [2:27:58] Chinese law enforcement says we cannot act against them. [2:28:02] So the most important element that we should be raising in our bilateral conversations with [2:28:07] China related to drugs is to close this loophole. [2:28:10] It's obviously it's a big thing for a country to change its laws. [2:28:14] China changed its laws to schedule the entire class of fentanyl. [2:28:18] But it is this vulnerability, the lack of material support clauses, the lack of racketeering charges, [2:28:23] that allow Chinese nefarious entities to continually evade law enforcement by moving non-scheduled chemicals. [2:28:30] Well, we've now come to conclusion of the hearing. [2:28:36] Let me again thank all of our witnesses for sharing your expertise and answering our questions. [2:28:42] We may in fact have, as Senator Whitehouse said, some additional questions post-hearing. [2:28:47] And if you would please entertain those within, we'll set a deadline of maybe about a week. [2:28:54] And if you would answer those questions, we would very much appreciate it. [2:28:58] But the hearing is now adjourned. [2:29:02] We'll get to the end of the hearing. [2:29:04] Thank you. [2:29:05] Thank you. [2:29:06] Thank you so much. [2:29:07] Thank you so much. [2:29:08] Thank you. [2:29:09] Thank you. [2:29:10] Thank you. [2:29:11] Thank you. [2:29:12] Thank you.