Sanctuary Policies Are Probed By House Judiciary Committee

[21:04] The subcommittee will come to order. Without objection, the chair is authorized to declare [21:09] a recess at any time. We welcome everyone to today's hearing on sanctuary policies [21:14] and their tragic consequences, and I'll now recognize myself for an opening statement. [21:20] Today's hearing further exposes the ongoing tragedies visited upon innocent American families [21:27] because of the Democrat sanctuary laws. These laws require local law enforcement to release [21:33] dangerous illegal aliens, people who are already in their custody for committing other crimes, [21:39] back into our communities to commit still more crimes, rather than safely turning them over to [21:45] ICE to be removed from our country. ICE officers then have to track them down in order to enforce [21:51] court-ordered deportations, endangering not only federal law enforcement, but the targets of these [21:57] removal orders, innocent bystanders, and misguided members of the public who attempt to interfere. [22:04] Sanctuary laws are also a magnet for illegal aliens since the aliens know that there will be no [22:09] immigration consequences when they are ever encountered by law enforcement. At a previous [22:15] hearing on this subject, the Democrats complained in front of an audience filled with angel families [22:20] that these hearings were a waste of their time. Each of these families had lost a loved one to criminals [22:29] that sanctuary jurisdictions had in custody, could have turned over to ICE, and yet inexplicably released. [22:35] One sanctuary sheriff from Fairfax County told us that despite an $83 million annual budget, [22:43] she just didn't have the resources to pick up the phone to tell ICE they were about to release a [22:48] criminal who had no right to be in this country in the first place. That criminal with a long history [22:54] of crimes and releases then murdered Stephanie Minter. The Democrats won't spend a dime, not a thin dime, [23:02] to make a phone call to ICE to protect their communities, and then they loudly complain they [23:07] don't have the time to hear of the consequences. Well, I can assure the Democrats that we will keep [23:13] holding these hearings until these sanctuary policies are repealed and Americans can be safe once again [23:20] from the hundreds of thousands of criminal illegal aliens the Democrats allowed into our country and [23:25] now protect from deportation. Let us be clear, this isn't about obstructing general immigration [23:32] enforcement. Democrats tried to do that by shutting down the entire Department of Homeland Security. [23:38] This is specifically about deporting illegal aliens who have been arrested for other crimes, [23:43] and yet the Democrats prefer that they be released into your neighborhood rather than being deported to [23:48] their own country. We can stop this madness with the shutdown sanctuary policies act that passed out of this [23:55] committee in March and will be heard in the coming weeks by the House. The shutdown sanctuary policies act [24:01] would preempt laws that forbid local law enforcement from cooperating with ICE. It would protect local [24:07] law enforcement officers from legal retaliation for cooperating with ICE. It would divert federal law [24:13] enforcement grants away from sanctuary jurisdictions that refuse to assist in enforcing federal law and [24:19] redirect those funds to cooperative jurisdictions instead. Perhaps most important for families like that of [24:26] Carissa Aspnis and Delilah Coleman. It would allow victims to sue the jurisdictions for the damages caused by [24:33] criminals that these officials deliberately released back into their communities. The mother and father of [24:41] these victims are with us today. Their daughters were catastrophically injured in horrific traffic accidents [24:47] caused by illegal aliens who found safe harbor in sanctuary state of Colorado and the sanctuary state of California. [24:55] In Delilah Coleman's case the illegal alien even received a commercial driver's license from Gravin [25:00] Newsom's California. We will also hear from Sheriff Jeffrey Gaylor of Harford County Maryland who echoes the [25:08] pleas we have heard from sheriffs across the country who desperately want to protect their communities from [25:14] these sanctuary politicians and thereby prevent the tragedies that have they have to deal with as a direct and [25:21] deliberate result of sanctuary laws. Some of those sheriffs from Maryland are here today representing Garrett County, [25:28] Allegheny County, Frederick County, Caroline County, Washington County, Wicomico County, and Somerset County. [25:37] Tens of millions of Americans live in so-called sanctuary jurisdictions controlled by the Democrats, [25:43] which provide sanctuary to dangerous foreign nationals. Ironically, they do so at the expense of law-abiding U.S. citizens who live [25:50] here, pay their taxes, and depend on their government to protect them from predators. Last year alone, [25:57] sanctuary jurisdictions refused to honor more than 17,000 ICE detainers. That's 17,000 criminals who could [26:06] have been quickly and safely removed from our communities, and every day we hear of a new preventable [26:11] tragedy as a result. For example, just last week the sanctuary county of Fairfax County, the subject of an [26:17] earlier hearing of this committee, arrested three illegal aliens sexually preying on children. [26:23] They're free on bond, even though federal law requires their detention and removal. Meanwhile, [26:28] this weekend in Madison, Wisconsin, two illegal aliens were arrested for sexual assault, yet [26:34] authorities there refused to honor an ICE detainer. Today's hearing should be illuminating for any [26:40] American watching, and people need to pay attention because these incidents are unfolding daily, [26:45] and the next grieving family telling their heartbreaking story before this committee just might be yours. [26:52] I look forward to hearing from our witnesses, and I now yield to the ranking member for her opening [26:57] statement. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Good morning, and I welcome all of our witnesses to the committee. [27:03] Today we are here to talk about the tragic consequences of policy decisions. Unfortunately, the erratic, [27:09] disturbing policy decisions of the Trump administration have left countless tragedies in their wake. [27:15] Right now, in Donald Trump's America, people are dying from a disease that we declared eliminated in 2000, [27:23] because his Secretary of Health and Human Services cannot stop spreading lies about vaccines. [27:30] 18 service members have died, and over 700 were injured as a result of Trump's illegal war of choice [27:37] against Iran that has no strategy, no exit plan, and has driven up gas and grocery prices for Americans at [27:45] a time when too many are already struggling. Service members have had to fend off attacks from [27:50] foreign governments, as well as our own government. After enduring nine months of the horrifying [27:55] conditions on the USS Abraham Lincoln that drove another sailor to attempt suicide, Joshua Aviles, who is [28:03] risking his life to serve our country, learned that Trump's ICE had detained his father. Donald Trump's [28:10] out-of-control ICE has also deported seven spouses of active duty service members. Meanwhile, federal [28:18] agents have killed people who are simply driving home after celebrating their birthdays. People like Ruben Ray [28:25] Martinez, or driving to work like Lorenzo Salgado Araujo and Yohan Sebastian Guerrero, or exercising their [28:32] constitutional rights like Renee Good and Alex Preddy. Not a single ICE or CBP officer has been held accountable [28:40] for any of these fatal shootings. In fact, it took almost six months for the Department of Justice [28:46] to turn over key evidence to the Hennepin County Attorney's Office to even allow local investigations [28:53] around the murders of Renee Good and Alex Preddy to proceed. The extent of disregard for the American [29:01] people from this president and his cabinet is stunning. Trump has called affordability a hoax. [29:09] He got the attorney general, who still serves as his personal attorney, to approve a deal that gives him [29:15] and his family immunity from tax fraud, even as he has enriched himself with unconstitutional crypto [29:23] and business deals that have now made his family $2.2 billion in the past year alone. But the distraction, [29:32] the corruption and the cruelty are backfiring. Seventy percent of Americans disapprove of Trump's [29:40] performance overall, even on immigration, where Trump claimed that he was going after the worst of the [29:46] worst and got some people to believe that that is what he would do. What the American people have seen [29:51] instead is kidnapping, disappearing and incarceration of all people of all statuses, including U.S. citizens, [30:01] kids, parents and spouses of U.S. citizens and people with legal status that he took away. [30:09] ICE's own data show that the majority of people that they arrest have zero criminal charges or convictions. [30:15] Arrests of immigrants without a single criminal conviction have surged by 770 percent. In their [30:22] recent operation targeting people in the D.C. suburbs, ICE actually bragged that 70 percent of the [30:28] immigrants that they arrested lacked any criminal charges or convictions. Perhaps even more disturbingly, [30:35] Trump is releasing people with criminal charges and convictions from immigration detention [30:41] to make room for folks without any criminal history. In fact, in stark contrast to Republican talking [30:48] points, DHS's own data shows that under Donald Trump, ICE is releasing 23 percent more people with [30:58] criminal convictions from immigration detention than it did during the Biden administration. [31:03] Republicans want you to think that they care about public safety, but none of this does anything to [31:09] improve public safety. They've pulled agents off of fentanyl investigations to roam the streets [31:16] searching for people who, quote, look undocumented. And as a result, according to the Trump-appointed [31:22] DHS inspector general, federal agents are spending 30 percent less time working on fentanyl cases, [31:31] leading to a 40 percent drop in fentanyl seizures. DHS goes into federal prisons to pick up immigrants in the [31:38] middle of their criminal sentences to put them in deportation proceedings. Letting people with criminal [31:44] convictions out early so that you can boost your detention and deportation numbers does not make [31:51] America safer. Perhaps even worse are the many instances where DHS has picked up people with criminal [31:59] charges before their trials and deported them or allowed them to self-deport long before a judge is able to [32:07] hand down a sentence. Not only does this grant them a get-out-of-jail-free card, but it also deprives [32:14] their victims of justice and restitution. The administration lets these people go free so that [32:20] they can fill up their immigration detention centers with people who have never harmed anyone — nuns and [32:27] pastors, care workers, moms, dads, children. Last month, I visited the Stewart Detention Center in rural Georgia, [32:35] and what I saw was absolutely unacceptable. A private, for-profit detention center that incarcerates over [32:43] 1,900 people every single night with unsanitary conditions, substandard medical care, and severe [32:51] overcrowding. One 24-year-old man with absolutely no criminal history who came to escape the war in Yemen [32:59] has spent 24 months in detention and was even bleeding from the mouth during our visit because [33:05] ICE pulled his tooth instead of trying to fix it. A 72-year-old man who has lived in the United States [33:12] for more than 30 years, no criminal record, married to a U.S. citizen who is in final stages of renal failure, [33:20] went in for his green card interview after he had applied through the legal process, and instead was [33:28] arrested by ICE for actually trying to obey the law and follow a legal pathway that was there for him. [33:33] And a woman who can no longer conceive children because the last time she was in ICE detention, [33:40] under Trump, a doctor conducted an unnecessary medical procedure without her consent. [33:47] She was weeping over her U.S. citizen daughter who is suffering severe mental health problems because [33:52] her mother is in immigration detention, even though she has multiple legal pathways in process. [33:58] The stories we will hear today deserve our attention, as do all of the ones that I have mentioned. [34:07] I would hope that this committee would treat the issues that I mentioned, those individuals, [34:12] those U.S. citizens with the seriousness that they deserve. Until then, I thank our witnesses [34:19] for being here today, and I give my sincere condolences for the horrific injuries that your daughters [34:26] have suffered. I yield back. As a result of Democrat policies. Chairs, now please recognize the [34:33] chairman of the Judiciary Committee, Congressman Jordan. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. So I've said this many [34:40] times before, but I'm going to say it again. The Democrats have a plan and they are executing the [34:46] plan. Step one, let in 10 million illegal migrants during the Biden administration. Step two, create [34:53] sanctuary jurisdictions all over the country, which make it difficult to apprehend those illegal migrants [35:02] when they commit another crime. And then step three, don't pay the guys who do the apprehending. [35:09] Never forget, the Democrats shut down the government twice in one Congress because they didn't want to [35:13] pay ICE. So they have a systematic plan that they are executing. Now, what exactly happens in sanctuary [35:20] jurisdictions? Sanctuary jurisdictions, in simple terms, one of the dumbest ideas I've ever heard of. [35:25] But in simple terms, the politicians tell local law enforcement, like Sheriff Gaylor, you can't work [35:31] with federal law enforcement when it comes to enforcing federal laws on illegal migrants who've committed [35:38] another crime. That is stupid. No other way to say it. But that's what goes on in sanctuary jurisdiction. [35:44] And as the chairman pointed out, it happened 17,000 times last year where an illegal migrant commits [35:52] another crime. ICE sends a detainer notice to the jail, to the detention center and says, hey, [35:57] if you're going to let so and so out, they're here illegally. They've been charged with another crime. [36:01] Give us a heads up. And what do they say in the local community? No, we're not going to tell you. [36:07] We've actually seen the form. They stamp on the form released to the streets, which makes it tough [36:13] then for ICE. They got to send 10 agents, seven agents, 28, who knows what to apprehend the guy [36:19] where one guy could have came to the jail and apprehended him there. And oh, by the way, [36:25] when they're out on the street, ICE is out on the street apprehending these guys. [36:28] Guess what happens to them? They get yelled at. They get spit on. They get sworn at. They get doxxed. [36:35] Their family gets threatened. Sometimes they get attacked. That's what goes on in almost a third [36:43] of the country, 18 cities, 11 states, the District of Columbia, three big counties like Fairfax County, [36:49] just next door. That goes on. Finally, what else happens in these areas? Sometimes you get a soft on [36:57] crime prosecutor like Mr. Descano next door in Fairfax County, who says, we're not only not going to work, [37:04] let our law enforcement, local law enforcement work with federal law enforcement. We're going to quote, [37:08] this is his policy, take into account the immigration status of people who are charged with the crime. [37:14] And that'll help us determine what charge we bring, what kind of plea agreement, in essence, [37:19] treating illegal migrants who commit a crime differently and frankly, in this context, better [37:24] than an American citizen who may have committed the same crime. That is also stupid. And I think, [37:29] frankly, unconstitutional. That is what's going on around the country. And now there's a final step. [37:35] Now there's a final step. Democrat Socialists now say, we want these individuals to be able to vote. [37:42] It's part of their platform. I mean, you can't make this stuff up. Let in 10 million, [37:49] create sanctuary jurisdictions, which makes it difficult to apprehend those people when they [37:53] commit another crime. Don't pay ICE, who does the apprehending. And oh, by the way, these people, [37:58] we want them to be able to vote in American elections. That is today's Democrat Party. That's the craziest [38:04] stuff I've ever heard. And they intend to carry out this plan. The leader of the Democrat [38:10] Socialist, nine months and one day ago when he was sworn in as mayor of our largest city, [38:16] Mr. Momdani said this, I was elected as a Democrat Socialist. I will govern as a Democrat Socialist. [38:21] They believe it. They want to execute that very plan. So again, I want to thank the chairman for the [38:28] great work he's been doing on this committee and exposing how wrong this is and the tragedy. [38:34] We got the parents here. This is this is what happens. We've had we've had other witnesses [38:43] testify in Fairfax County. What happened to Stephanie Mentor when we even had the email [38:48] from law enforcement saying this guy who you're letting out, Mr. Jolla, this guy has killed or [38:54] this guy, excuse me, has hurt people. It's only a matter of time before he does something really, [38:58] really bad. And sure enough, Stephanie Mentor lost her life because of it. It's important hearing. [39:06] And I appreciate the work of the chairman. I appreciate the sheriff being here. I appreciate [39:09] the parents being here. God bless you for coming and telling your story. And I look forward to [39:14] hearing your testimony. With that, I yield back. [39:16] The gentleman yields back. I'm now pleased to introduce the ranking member of the Judiciary [39:20] Committee, Mr. Raskin. [39:21] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Greetings to all of our witnesses and greetings to all of the [39:27] sheriffs who've come from the Free State today. President Trump, whose approval rating has now fallen [39:33] below 33 percent, promised us that they were going to repair the broken immigration system and make [39:39] us safer by pursuing the worst of the worst. But his masked paramilitary squads bloated with tens of [39:45] billions of dollars in tax money are attacking and killing ordinary people. American citizens, [39:52] lawful permanent residents and undocumented people who have no criminal records and no arrests. Rogue [39:58] agents are terrorizing communities across America, shooting down U.S. citizens at point blank rage [40:04] in broad daylight just for exercising their First Amendment and Second Amendment rights. [40:10] Since Trump entered a return to office, immigration officers have shot at least 22 people, [40:15] killing six of them, including three U.S. citizens, Renee Good, Alex Preddy and Ruben Ray Martinez. [40:23] I was visited by a former detective in Maryland who retired after more than 20 years in office [40:27] who told me that he drew his firearm once and made a warning shot in his entire career. But you have [40:36] people getting trained for a few weeks by ICE who get out and start pulling their guns on people and [40:42] shooting within several weeks of being on the street. Instead of targeting criminals, ICE has pounced on [40:48] parents in the school pickup lane, arrested people at daycare centers and in churches, thrown tear gas [40:55] outside elementary schools and under cars with children seated inside, smashed the windows of cars [41:01] and dragged the passengers out, arrested students for writing op-eds and held U.S. citizens against their [41:08] will in immigration detention without bothering for days to verify their citizenship status. And that [41:15] happened to one of my constituents. Just last month in Texas, a five-year-old child was detained with his [41:20] father while on their way to a soccer game. They're beating people up. They're no longer going after [41:26] the worst of the worst. They're acting like the worst of the worst. They've taken a further step into [41:31] the darkness, even as our country's in war. As American service members fight and die in Donald [41:36] Trump's illegal, unconstitutional, aimless, endless war of choice in Iran, ICE has decided to deport the [41:44] U.S. soldiers and indeed entire American military families. Last month, the wife of an active duty [41:51] U.S. citizen army sergeant, the mother of a six-year-old daughter, was deported after she was detained [41:57] outside of a Walmart in front of her terrified daughter. In another heartbreaking story, the immigrant [42:02] father of a sailor serving on the USS Abraham Lincoln was detained. His son had been deployed under [42:10] stifling and miserable conditions on the Abraham Lincoln in the Middle East for nine months, and his [42:15] father was anxiously waiting for him to come home when immigration authorities detained him. Only after [42:21] a massive community outcry was the elderly father released. Under this administration, more than 50 [42:27] parents and spouses of active duty service members have been detained by ICE and DHS. As the national debt [42:37] soars over 40 trillion dollars, one quarter of it coming from the wild spending of one president, [42:44] Donald Trump. Our mega colleagues have provided the Department of Homeland Security with more than [42:49] 240 billion dollars for immigration enforcement. In this Congress alone, the agency has hundreds of [42:57] thousands of employees and 80,000 sworn law enforcement officers, more than the number of officers in [43:04] Washington, New York, Chicago, Los Angeles, Baltimore, Las Vegas and Dallas combined. Yet because ICE refuses [43:12] to focus on the worst of the worst despite these unprecedented staggering resources taken from the [43:19] taxpayers, ICE is failing at its duty to keep us safe. In June of this year, a Republican witness, [43:25] a county sheriff, testified that his office notified ICE on eight different occasions that individuals were in [43:31] its custody and available for pickup by ICE. Despite its gargantuan budget, ICE completely failed to [43:38] respond in two of those eight cases or 25%, resulting in two felony offenders being released into the [43:46] community. That was testimony in this committee, but that's actually much better than Loudoun County, [43:51] Virginia generally. In Loudoun County, generally ICE issued detainers for 419 people, but ICE only picked up 253. [44:00] That means 166 of them were never even picked up by ICE. 40% of them weren't picked up by ICE, and that's [44:07] the crux of their whole complaint here. Instead of trying to conduct oversight of DHS and demand [44:14] accountability for this catastrophic and colossal waste of public resources, the administration and our [44:20] colleagues keep throwing more money at the problem. For example, the administration has diverted over [44:26] 28,000 officers from their law enforcement roles to work on civil immigration enforcement instead. A few [44:34] weeks ago, the DHS inspector general, the Trump appointee, released a report detailing how badly [44:40] this monomaniacal focus on immigration was undermining our fight against opioids. Federal agents are spending 30% [44:48] less time working on fentanyl cases. And as a result, fentanyl seizures have dropped more than 40%. That means [44:57] more opioids getting into our country onto our streets and into our bodies so they can have ICE officers [45:04] picking people up in the kindergarten drop off lane. Judiciary Republicans solution this week is to [45:12] rededicate themselves to this failed strategy. They passed a bill to force underfunded state and local [45:18] jurisdictions to use more of their funds and resources to do the bloated federal government's [45:23] job of immigration enforcement. That means cities and localities would have fewer officers, less money, [45:30] and fewer resources to protect their communities from violent crime, guns, drugs, and drunk driving. [45:37] What's worse, our colleagues have proposed defunding police departments across America in any jurisdiction [45:43] that decides that state and local governments and not ICE should get to decide how state and local [45:48] police departments are governed and run. Even the Speaker and the rest of the GOP majority are refusing to [45:55] endorse and advance this defund the police anti-sanctuary city bill. Here in judiciary, we've already debated [46:03] and voted on this defund the police bill. Republicans passed it out of this committee in March of this year, [46:10] six months ago. The legislation that all of this is about has already passed out of our committee. [46:15] Yet for the last six months, the Speaker has refused to put their bill on the floor. It seems even the [46:22] Speaker realizes that after Trump's poll numbers have sunk like a stone and the majority of Americans [46:27] reject their authoritarian police state tactics, it's just bad politics and terrible policy to bring this [46:34] bill out. Republicans on our committee have voted to strip protections for military families with pending [46:40] green card applications. They voted against requiring ICE officers to wear body worn cameras. They voted to [46:47] strip children, including toddlers who were in the US without a parent, of their right to have an attorney [46:52] even represent them in immigration proceedings. And they've refused to conduct any probe into the hundreds [46:58] of millions of dollars DHS has squandered on private luxury jets, complete with bedrooms and bars and [47:06] glamorous photo shoots on horseback for Kristi Noem, the prior secretary of DHS. Our colleagues keep [47:14] holding these hearings because they want the public to believe that they somehow have policies backstage [47:20] that they haven't unveiled yet that they will reveal in the next Congress to make it safer. But [47:25] they don't. Their policies are so divisive, so toxic, so purely symbolic and off point that even Speaker [47:32] Johnson won't put them on the floor. It's not fair to keep running the same hearing over and over again, [47:38] to keep bringing the same witnesses back again for legislation which this committee has already passed, [47:44] but which the leadership refuses to bring to the floor. In the ordinary legislative process, you have [47:51] hearings so you can pass legislation out and advance it in the process. Here, our colleagues have totally [47:56] turned it upside down. They've introduced a bill just so they can keep having hearings, but they're not doing [48:01] anything with their bill. I want to thank our witnesses for being here today. I would especially like to [48:07] thank Ms. Fox and Mr. Coleman. Your stories need to be heard by America and you deserve a national, [48:13] nonpartisan audience for your story and you deserve justice. I'm terribly sorry for what you and your [48:19] families have been put through and continue to go through every single day. I hope that your daughters, [48:25] Delilah and Carissa, draw strength from your fierce and passionate advocacy on their behalf. You and the [48:31] American people deserve better than today's hearing, which is just running the same play over and over [48:37] again. You deserve more than empty promises. We all deserve an America where our children are safe, [48:43] where law enforcement officials around the country are focused on actually protecting our communities [48:47] and not meeting quotas imposed by Stephen Miller or some other ideologue. You deserve, we all deserve, [48:53] a Congress that will finally repair a broken and cruel immigration system with comprehensive common [49:00] sense immigration reform. I yield back, Mr. Chairman. Without objection, all other opening [49:05] statements be included in the record and I'll now introduce today's witnesses. We have with us today, [49:11] Mr. Marcus Coleman. Mr. Coleman's a resident of California, a sanctuary state. He's a truck driver [49:17] and the father of three children, one of whom was catastrophically injured by an illegal alien driving [49:21] an 18 wheeler. That alien had been issued a commercial driver's license by the state of California. We have with us [49:29] once again, Mr. David Beer. He's the director of immigration studies at the Cato Institute. He has [49:35] a BA in political science from Grove City College in Pennsylvania. Third, we have the Honorable Sheriff [49:42] Jeff Gaylor. Sheriff Gaylor has been the sheriff of Harford County, Maryland since 2014. He is a veteran [49:49] law enforcement professional with over 40 years of public safety experience, including 28 years with the [49:55] Maryland State Police. Sheriff Gaylor has been a member of the National Sheriff's Association [50:00] Border Security Committee since 2018 and is the lead plaintiff in a lawsuit seeking to strike down [50:06] Maryland sanctuary law. Finally, we have Ms. Patricia Fox. Ms. Fox is a resident of the Denver metro area, [50:14] a sanctuary jurisdiction. In 2025, she stepped away from a successful marketing and communications career [50:20] to become a full-time caregiver to her daughter, Carissa Aspenis. Carissa was catastrophically injured [50:27] while riding a motorcycle by an illegal alien who was unlicensed and uninsured. We welcome our [50:34] witnesses and thank them for appearing today. We'll begin by swearing you in. Would you please rise and [50:39] raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm under penalty of perjury that the testimony you're about to [50:47] give is true and correct to the best of your knowledge, information, and beliefs? So help you God. [50:53] Let the record reflect. The witnesses have answered in the affirmative. Thank you. You may be seated. [50:58] Please know your written testimony will be entered in the record in its entirety. Accordingly, [51:03] we'd ask that you summarize your testimony in five minutes. And Mr. Coleman will begin with you. [51:09] I'll turn on your microphone. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate it. This is my first time [51:17] being at one of these things, so forgive me if I'm a little skittish on this. But I do want to say [51:23] thank you guys for hearing our story. As far as that side of the aisle goes, I think that building [51:30] needs to get checked for mold or something because you guys are really out of your guys' mind, [51:33] thinking that sanctuary cities are the way to go. This is the end result of sanctuary city right here. [51:40] And the guy was just going to work. You guys want to talk about illegal immigrants. They're just driving [51:45] to work. They're trying to be a part of the community. This is what happens right here. Just as she had to [51:49] sit there and stop working her job, I had to sit there and stop working mine. I'm no longer truck [51:53] driving. I no longer make the money that we used to make. I'm now pinching panties. I have nine kids, [51:59] by the way, that I that I take care of. And I had to sit there and stretch that all because of this [52:04] right here. It's not her fault. It's this fault over here. There's no way at all that anybody should [52:11] fall victim to what's going on behind somebody who's not supposed to be here. If I moved into your [52:17] house without your permission, and I started sitting there derailing your guys' household [52:22] and taking care of taking from your guys' monetary and your guys' food and stuff like that, you guys [52:27] would have me either kicked out, ask me to move out, or have the police escort me out. It's the same [52:31] thing in the United States. These people come here. We did not invite them here. There's a way to go. [52:35] This is the way to go. My wife, an immigrant, she did what she's supposed to do. She did exactly what [52:42] she's supposed to do to get here, and she had no issues at all doing it. I don't understand why you guys [52:46] think it's okay for anybody else to just jump a fence, come over here, and be entitled to the [52:50] exact same rights that I have and that you guys have. We work hard for that. We protect that. [52:56] In any other country, anybody ever tried to do that, you're going to go to jail. You're going [53:00] to get arrested. Some of these people, they sit there and they stay in jail for life. And here in [53:04] the United States, you guys want to give them free healthcare. You guys want to give them a driver [53:08] license. You guys want to give them the right to vote. Of course, they're going to vote for some [53:12] idiotic things because that's what they want to do. They want to sit here and turn the United States [53:16] into a third world country. They want to sit there and turn the United States into India, [53:20] or into Ukraine, or into Russia, or into Mexico. This isn't that. This is the one country where we [53:27] are free to do what we wish to do. We earned it. We worked hard for it. My family in the military, [53:34] I have several family members that have passed away inside the military. They gave their blood, [53:38] sweat, and tears for that. And I don't understand how you guys think that that's okay for people to just [53:42] come over here and do it. When I took my daughter in at nighttime, she's not a Republican. She's not a [53:46] Democrat. She's seven years old, and there's hundreds of them. How is that okay? How are you [53:56] guys not fighting for this right here? How are you guys not fighting for this? I reject your guys' [54:04] sympathy, to be honest with you. There's no way you guys are sorry. Not one of you guys have ever [54:09] called me. Not one of you guys have ever reached out to me. Not one of you guys have ever sat there and [54:13] seen me in the hallways and said, hey, sorry about your daughter. You guys do it right here while you [54:17] guys are grandstanding on top of your soapbox. This is when you guys care. Right here inside this [54:21] room is the only time you guys care. I've never received anything from anybody over here at all [54:27] regarding my daughter or my family or anything. Hey, Mr. Coleman, your guys is Delilah Law. I want [54:33] to help you revise this so that we were interested inside of it. Nothing. You guys have no pathway to [54:39] anything. You guys want to sit there and talk about the pathway to citizenship. There is a pathway. [54:43] It's not jump the fence and apply. That's not the way it goes. There's a process to get it done. You [54:48] don't just do that. I can't just go over there and go sit down inside one of those seats and become [54:53] a Democrat. Oh, you know what? I probably could. I honestly probably could. So I'm not even going to [54:57] say that. But I can't go inside a hospital and become a doctor just because I want to and go put [55:03] on a coat and come to work. It's getting ridiculous the way things are going now. It honestly is. It [55:09] makes no sense at all. Sanctuary cities allow so much to be done that it's almost like the parent's not [55:16] there to take care of the household and everybody's running around and doing what they want to do. [55:21] And it sucks. It honestly does. You guys sit there and you guys talk about ICE invading cities and [55:27] doing this and doing that. I agree with Mr. Gordon, Jordan, sorry, that if you guys, if the state sat [55:34] there and told them, come pick up the person, it would take one or two people to go do it. Instead, [55:38] they got to send an army out there because now they have to look for them. And then since it's a sanctuary [55:42] state, you got people sitting there abusing the ICE, the ICE officers that are out there. [55:48] I have a whole statement right here that I was going to read to you guys. But just listening to [55:51] you guys, none of this is relevant anymore because you guys just changed so much. It makes no sense at [55:58] all. My daughter doesn't deserve this. She didn't ask for any of this. The people that jumped the fence [56:04] did, though. They knew exactly what they were doing. They still chose to move forward in that direction. [56:08] And every day something's happening to somebody. And it is your guys' fault. I hold each and every one of you [56:14] responsible for it. And I always will. Thank you for your testimony. And your full written [56:23] statement will be included in the record. And I hope my Democratic colleagues will take the time [56:28] to read it. I'm next going to introduce Mr. David Beer for five minutes. Chairman McClintock, [56:37] Ranking Member Jayapal, and distinguished members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to [56:42] testify. For nearly half a century, the Cato Institute's original research has shown that people, [56:47] whatever their ancestry, background, or birthplace, can thrive in a free society. For 250 years, [56:56] America's protection of individual liberty has transformed immigrants, even from the poorest [57:01] countries, into successful Americans. That success continues today. In just the last three decades, [57:08] immigrants, legal and illegal, have reduced federal, state, and local deficits $14.5 trillion. [57:16] They work and start businesses at higher rates. But rather than embrace this tradition, this [57:24] administration threatens to end it. It has already cut legal immigration in half. It has created about [57:31] two million more illegal immigrants by stripping status from vetted legal immigrants. Already, the [57:40] Congressional Budget Office has found that these and other anti-immigrant efforts have increased [57:46] deficits by $500 billion over the next decade alone. America's cities understand that immigrants here [57:54] illegally are not the worst of the worst. Most want to contribute legally, but aren't allowed to. [58:01] Nationwide, immigrants, even illegal immigrants, are half as likely to commit crimes for which they are [58:07] incarcerated as U.S.-born Americans. Based on data from our largest states, this includes serious traffic [58:14] crimes. In California, immigrant drivers generally, as well as immigrants with temporary commercial [58:19] driver's licenses, average about 25 percent fewer fatal crashes. In Texas, illegal immigrants commit [58:25] fewer felonies on the roads. This is partly explained by immigrants having substantially lower rates [58:33] of alcohol abuse. Some immigrants do commit crimes. But since immigrants overall reduce the crime rate, [58:42] immigration reduces the likelihood that any one of us will be harmed. But when anyone, immigrant or not, [58:51] legal or not, victimizes a person, demand justice. Prosecute the offender to the fullest. If they're not a [59:00] citizen, deport them. But in a free society, no individual's actions should be used to justify [59:08] government policies targeting millions of people who haven't threatened anyone. Not only is it inherently unjust, [59:15] but it diverts resources from justice for other victims. Unfortunately, this administration is expert at [59:23] diverting resources. It has deprioritized serious offenders and even ongoing criminal activity to conduct [59:31] profiling stops on the streets at work sites and home depots. It is even deliberately arresting immigrant [59:39] witnesses and victims of crimes who worked with law enforcement to stop the offenders. Nearly 80 percent of [59:47] ICE arrests last month had no criminal convictions of any kind. Some are fathers and mothers of our [59:55] soldiers. Many are spouses of American citizens. According to DHS, there are violent fugitives out there. Yet it is [1:00:04] choosing to devote its resources to detaining the families of Americans. In fact, according to its own data on its [1:00:14] detention management website, ICE is actually releasing more criminals from its custody into the United States than it ever did under the [1:00:23] last administration, making room for all the good people that it wants to fast track out of the country. [1:00:30] Americans want real solutions, not scapegoating. They want order, legality and security. Our immigrant co-workers, [1:00:38] neighbors, friends and family want to contribute to this country legally. Let them fix legal immigration. [1:00:47] Imagine if just three percent of gun sales were permitted. Many in this room, myself included, would call that gun [1:00:55] prohibition. But that's how few immigrants seeking permanent legal status in the United States through [1:01:01] the proper processes actually get approved in a year. For many, there's no legal way at all. If you make [1:01:10] legal immigration impossible, don't complain about illegal immigration. You created it. You made it illegal. [1:01:20] So, yes, focus on justice for victims. But let peaceful people contribute to this country legally. Thank you. [1:01:29] Chair now recognizes Sheriff Gaylord. Good morning, Mr. Chairman, distinguished members of the committee. [1:01:38] After the 2024 election, thanks to the leadership of President Trump, our federal government acted swiftly [1:01:44] to secure our wide open southern border. In collaboration with state and local law enforcement, [1:01:51] collaboration, federal authorities moved decisively to identify, apprehend, and remove hundreds of [1:01:56] thousands of criminal illegal aliens who are actively victimizing American communities. Unfortunately, [1:02:03] rogue state legislatures, like mine in Maryland, are actively fighting against these law and order [1:02:09] efforts. They are passing radical legislation designed to create safe havens for criminal illegal aliens and [1:02:17] outlawing successful public safety programs like the 287 program. Let me remind this committee, [1:02:23] the 287 program was signed into law by President Bill Clinton, a Democrat. In 2016, President Obama, [1:02:30] who expanded the program, another Democrat, that's when I signed our formal agreement with the federal [1:02:36] government making Hartford County, the second county in Maryland, to partner and screen every single [1:02:41] inmate booked into our county jail. Yet, last year, the supermajority partisan politicians in my state [1:02:49] outlawed this very program. If that wasn't bad enough, they went a step further and also passed anti-American [1:02:57] legislation gagging local law enforcement and making it illegal for my deputies to coordinate or even [1:03:04] communicate with certain federal law enforcement agencies. We learned so much better than that after 9-11, [1:03:11] but we've forgotten. That is why I, along with two-thirds of my fellow Maryland sheriffs, many of [1:03:16] them are here today seated behind me, filed a federal lawsuit against the state of Maryland to strike down [1:03:22] these unconstitutional and dangerous sanctuary mandates. I'm here today to urge Congress to step in [1:03:30] and put a stop to these ultra-sanctuary policies before more innocent lives are lost. Because of President [1:03:37] Biden's wide-open border policies, and he did invite everyone here, the border crisis is no longer [1:03:43] confined to Texas, Arizona, or New Mexico. Every state is now a border state, and every sheriff in [1:03:49] America is forced to deal with the deadly fallout. In Hartford County, we are nearly 1,800 miles from the [1:03:55] U.S. southern border. We are a quiet community of about 270,000 people, very low crime. We average fewer than [1:04:01] a few homicides each year, yet these open border and sanctuary state policies struck at the very heart [1:04:08] of our community in the most tragic way, not once, but twice in the span of roughly 12 months. First, [1:04:16] on July 27, 2022, 20-year-old Kayla Hamilton, a young woman who had just moved to the Aberdeen [1:04:22] area with her fiancé to begin their life together, was brutally raped and strangled to death in her own home. [1:04:28] Her murderer was Walter Javier Martinez, a 16-year-old illegal alien and verified MS-13 gang member [1:04:35] from El Salvador. Caught at the U.S. border in Texas, he was processed into our country as an [1:04:42] unaccompanied minor under Biden administration policies. He was then released into the interior [1:04:48] of our country without a complete background check and took up residence in a rented room right next to [1:04:54] Kayla. Then on August 5, 2023, 37-year-old Rachel Morin, a mother of five, went for a job on a popular [1:05:02] trail in Bel Air. She never came home. After an agonizing 10-month national manhunt, her killer was [1:05:09] apprehended sitting on a bar stool in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Victor Antonio Martinez Hernandez, an illegal alien who [1:05:17] fled El Salvador after allegedly murdering a young woman there, entered our country illegally, violently [1:05:23] assaulted a mother and child in Los Angeles, and then made his way to Harford County to brutally rape [1:05:28] and murder Rachel. Neither of these monsters came to pursue the American dream. They came to pursue a [1:05:34] life of crime and to victimize members of our community. Both of these murders were 100 percent [1:05:40] preventable. Had our federal government simply enforced existing immigration laws, Kayla Hamilton and Rachel [1:05:46] Morin would be alive today. And as we all know these stories are not the only two. There are stories like [1:05:52] these which have occurred in far too many communities across our great nation. As sheriff, my primary duty [1:05:58] is the protection of Hartford County, but I cannot police my county effectively when Washington leaves [1:06:04] the door to our nation wide open and state politicians who have forgotten the values of our great nation tie [1:06:10] the hands of local law enforcement inside our own borders. We cannot bring Kayla or Rachel back, but Congress [1:06:17] can and must act to ensure no other American family endures this preventable heartbreak. It's time to put the [1:06:24] safety of the American people ahead of partisan politics. Permanently secure our border, outlaw sanctuary [1:06:31] policies, and let local law enforcement do the job we were sworn to do. Thank you. Thank you. And finally, [1:06:40] we have Ms. Patricia Fox. Good morning. Thank you for inviting me back. My daughter Carissa was hit on [1:06:51] March 28, 2025 by an illegal alien. She was launched headfirst into a concrete barrier at nearly 50 miles [1:06:59] per hour. The driver and passenger of the vehicle fled, never checking to see if my daughter was alive. [1:07:07] Despite her initial prognosis, Carissa survived. Praise God. But survival and recovery are not the same. [1:07:17] A year and a half later, this is what survival looks like. Every morning I use a Hoyer lift to raise [1:07:24] my adult daughter out of bed because she can't sit up, stand, or get herself up. Her physician says that [1:07:32] she requires two people to safely assist her. Colorado Medicaid denied us in-home nursing, so I figure it out. [1:07:42] Medicaid also denied the wheelchair that Carissa needs, so I make do with the one she has. [1:07:50] Carissa can't eat, so I blend her food and I feed her through a G-tube in her stomach. I give her [1:07:56] medications. I brush her teeth. I bathe her. I meet every basic need that she can no longer do for [1:08:02] herself. And when something hurts, she can't tell me. I become fluent in my daughter's facial expressions, [1:08:12] movements, heart rate, sounds. When I finally put her to bed, I'm not done. I sleep lightly because the [1:08:21] pulse ox could alarm at any moment. I need to be able to turn her oxygen on. And this doesn't end [1:08:29] with me. My 19-year-old daughter already thinks about the day I become too old to care for Carissa, [1:08:36] when she and her older brother have to pick up the mantle. She's not scared of the responsibility, [1:08:42] but she does worry that she won't be able to do it as well as I do. At 19 years old, [1:08:49] she already has accepted that her future, along with her sisters, has been forever changed. One [1:08:57] collision created an entire family of victims. And while every catastrophic collision is devastating, [1:09:05] there is another layer of pain in knowing that this one was preventable. Last time, [1:09:11] Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett asked us, if an American citizen had done this, [1:09:17] the pain would be there all the same. Sure, Chris's brain injury would be just as devastating, [1:09:23] but the story wouldn't be the same. Because if an American citizen had hit my daughter, [1:09:30] I wouldn't be here asking, why was somebody who had no lawful right to be in this country [1:09:36] here to hit her in the first place? Valeria Bermudez-Marcano wouldn't have been considered [1:09:44] one of the worst of the worst. She drove without a license, even though in Colorado, [1:09:49] illegal aliens can get them. She drove without insurance. She could have gotten that too. [1:09:55] Valeria chose to disregard our rule of law, and my daughter paid dearly for it. [1:10:03] Colorado continues to fail Carissa. I spend my free time fighting with long-term Medicaid [1:10:09] because the budget for disabilities was cut by a Democrat-led Joint Budget Committee. [1:10:15] But cover all Coloradans, a program providing health care to people who lack qualifying immigration [1:10:22] status, including people here illegally, is still in full swing. These are Colorado's fiscal priorities. [1:10:32] On the criminal side, all but one class 5 felony were dropped. As part of the plea deal, [1:10:40] Valeria was ordered to pay $15,000 in restitution for the motorcycle. For my daughter, nothing. A [1:10:51] motorcycle received more justice than my daughter. Mercifully, Valeria was deported. The ICE officer [1:11:03] that took her into custody works closely with DEA. He's removed so much fentanyl from our streets, [1:11:09] we don't have the means to count the number of lives he's saved. He's a hero, along with everyone [1:11:19] else that I've met at Denver ERO. I just received word yesterday, 70-plus Colorado schools are poised [1:11:27] to stage an anti-ICE walkout on September 4th. If that is not some Communist Party Red Guard bullshit, [1:11:37] I don't know what is. Our kids can't read or do math at a grade level. They can't tell you what a woman [1:11:47] is. But they can march against the very agency that is protecting our kids from trafficking and fentanyl. [1:11:55] The agency responsible for making sure that what happened to my Carissa doesn't happen to them. [1:12:03] Our stories shouldn't be partisan. The lives of American citizens should matter to both sides. We get it. [1:12:11] You guys hate Trump. The campaign ads, they're all the same. Taking the fight to Trump. Standing [1:12:17] against Trump. Trump, Trump, Trump. You need to love Americans more than you hate Trump. That's not [1:12:27] partisan politics. It's literally your job. I once told Congressman Andy Biggs about how, when I met [1:12:36] Laura Wilkerson, she told me how sorry she was that they've been fighting so hard for over a decade [1:12:43] to make sure no one else had to go through what they have. As if somehow she failed this new [1:12:49] generation of angel families. The failures weren't hers. The failure was open borders and sanctuary [1:12:56] policies. That day, I asked Congressman Biggs along with Congressman Crane and Sarah Carter to do [1:13:05] something for me. And now I beg you the same. Please don't make me hug another new angel mom in 10 years. [1:13:18] Thank you. Thank you so much for your testimony. We'll now proceed under the five minute rule with [1:13:29] questions. And we'll begin with Mr. Biggs of Arizona. Thank you. Ms. Fox and all witnesses, [1:13:41] thank you for being here. I'll even thank you, Mr. Byer, even though I find your testimony as usual [1:13:50] reprehensible. Ms. Fox, I was fortunate to see you and Carissa. Tell us what Colorado, when they lied to you, [1:14:03] tell us how they hid the truth from you. When you were trying to determine about the perpetrator, [1:14:13] the person who hit your daughter, please. It was a few days after the accident, [1:14:18] Carissa was still in her critical face. The detective, the lead detective investigating the [1:14:27] collision, called and had told us, apologized to me for the delay in getting in touch with me [1:14:39] because there was a language barrier in communicating with Valeria and her other passengers. And at that [1:14:48] point in time, I asked explicitly, was she an illegal immigrant? And he said, no, she was a citizen. [1:15:01] It took us six months for us to find out that she was, in fact, not, and that ICE had entered the [1:15:08] conversation. Did they ever attempt to, these officials from Colorado, did they ever attempt to [1:15:15] explain to you just why they think that these sanctuary laws are necessary, these policies are [1:15:24] necessary? And if they, did they give you any justification whatsoever? No, none. When we, [1:15:33] even once we did find out that ICE had entered the conversation, they still were not explaining about, [1:15:42] you know, how that happened or whatever. They were very vague and just said things like, well, [1:15:48] it's just not good for anybody to be on the radar. Um, I actually had to turn to independent [1:15:54] journalists, libs of tick tock to, um, for their, uh, contacts in order to verify that she was in fact, [1:16:02] an illegal alien. Thank you. I, um, and I just want to ask one more question. When we had that, um, [1:16:11] round table in, in Phoenix with the, with Sarah Carter, uh, we invited Republicans and Democrats [1:16:19] from the Arizona delegation. Do you remember any Democrats from the Arizona delegation showing up at [1:16:24] that? No, there was no one, um, just the Republicans and angel families. We're not all Republicans and [1:16:34] Democrats. We're both. That's right. We're all, we're diverse. There's black angel families. There's [1:16:40] white angel families. There's brown angel families, clearly. And we only hear from one side of the [1:16:46] aisle. We only have solutions from one side of the aisle. Well, thanks for being an advocate in [1:16:52] Colorado for changing policies. And, and, and now I wish we had more time, but I'm going to go to you, [1:16:57] Mr. Coleman. Um, have you been able to see, well, first of all you, congratulations. The Delilah, [1:17:05] Delilah's law is passed out transportation infrastructure committee, and we want to get that to the floor and [1:17:13] get that passed out. Uh, so we're grateful for your advocacy there. Did, have you learned anything [1:17:19] about the failures in California's licensing process that allowed, uh, this, this to happen, [1:17:27] where this individual was able to be out on the road driving? Mainly, there is no structure in [1:17:32] California for the licensing policy. Um, pretty much anybody can go over there and get a driver license. [1:17:37] You don't have to be an American citizen to grab one. Um, clearly you don't have to know how to drive [1:17:41] to grab one either. So we're, we're trying to add that to the Delilah law where you have to have a [1:17:46] minimum of three year driving history in order to get a CDL. Well, I appreciate that. And, and of course, [1:17:53] we support that. Uh, and, and I have also introduced another piece of legislation to, um, require [1:18:02] that you verify be used before somebody could get out of C to get a CDL around the nation, which would [1:18:09] actually help as well. And so we're waiting for that to get a hearing and move that forward. Mr. Chairman, [1:18:16] I have, um, a number of UCs I'd like to proceed with. Go ahead. Ice arrest, illegal alien, semi-truck [1:18:27] driver who killed four injured others in Indiana. Without objection. Ice lodges detainer for, [1:18:37] for Haitian illegal alien arrested. Without objection. Ice arrest, illegal alien truck driver who [1:18:49] critically injured American man in semi-truck accident. Without objection. Ice lodges detainers [1:18:54] for criminal illegal aliens arrested for trafficking more than 300 pounds of cocaine hidden in a semi-truck [1:18:59] in Indiana. Without objection. Deadly semi-trailer crash in California renews federal criticism of [1:19:04] immigrant truck drivers. Without objection. Trump administration says driver in Florida crash was [1:19:09] in U.S. illegally false California policy. Without objection. California revokes 17,000 commercial [1:19:15] drivers licenses for immigrants. Without objection. Trump administration orders 270 trucking schools [1:19:21] to shutter and crack down on licensing of illiterate illegal immigrant drivers. Without objection. [1:19:26] Transportation secretary announces closure of truck driving schools related to fraud and undocumented [1:19:31] drivers. Without objection. DOJ shuts down nearly 300 truck driving schools in 23 straights, [1:19:36] 23 states amid fraud investigation. Without objection. DHS and Department of Transportation [1:19:43] announced successful operation that removed more than 800 dangerous truckers from America's roads. [1:19:48] Without objection. Didn't get a chance to ask you this. Anything Mr. Goddler, Sheriff Goddler, [1:19:53] sorry. County Sheriff's file lawsuit challenging Community Trust Act. Objection. The actual [1:20:01] case, the civil complaint by Sheriff Goddler. Without objection. Sanctuary city crime, cost of the [1:20:11] migrant crisis, why Denver's neighbors have had enough of the self-described sanctuary city. Without [1:20:16] objection. Denver's rocky road is a sanctuary city. Without objection. Man charged with murder of [1:20:21] missing woman is illegal immigrant out on bail after previous DWI arrest. Without objection. Prosecutors [1:20:27] seeking death penalty for deported illegal alien indicted in murder of sister-in-law. Without objection. [1:20:32] ICE says Fairfax County and D.C. are rejecting detainers and releasing violent offenders. Without objection. [1:20:38] Mayor Frye's sanctuary policies released criminal illegal aliens from jails back into Minneapolis [1:20:44] streets. Without objection. Sanctuary New York released nearly 7,000 criminal illegal aliens including [1:20:50] murderers, terrorists and sexual predators. Without objection. Which sanctuary jurisdictions have [1:20:54] released the most criminals? Without objection. Sanctuary cities pose an unacceptable risk to public [1:20:59] safety. Without objection. And finally sanctuary cities are sanctuaries for criminals. Thank you Mr. Chairman. [1:21:04] And finally without objection. Ms. Jayapal for five minutes. Thank you Mr. Chairman. Mr. Beer I want to [1:21:12] start with you. I want to try to zoom out a little bit on the central arguments that are being made [1:21:19] by Republicans and that we hear constantly in this room and also outside because I think it's difficult to [1:21:26] just focus on one story or another. And so the central argument is often that there is a legal immigration [1:21:35] system that works and that people should just go through the legal immigration system. And as one of only [1:21:42] two dozen naturalized citizens to serve in the United States Congress I actually know a lot about that legal [1:21:48] immigration system and how it hasn't been fixed in over 30 years. So we're dealing with a system that is [1:21:54] extremely antiquated and then you add to that something that you referenced in your opening statement that [1:22:01] the Trump administration has essentially decimated any other legal pathways that existed. And so I just [1:22:08] want to spend a minute on is there a legal immigration system that works today in this country that allows [1:22:18] people to regularize status if they're married to a U.S. citizen to be here for work that our corporations [1:22:27] are putting out there to serve in the roles that we need for a growing U.S. economy. Is there a legal [1:22:34] immigration system that works? The legal immigration system does not work as it's intended. The goal here [1:22:40] is to have a process by which people can come legally to this country. You look at some of the wait times for [1:22:45] people. We are processing people who applied before 9-11. 2001 we're processing people for family-based [1:22:53] green cards right now. And those are for the people who have a process who have U.S. citizen family [1:23:00] in this country. For people who from India who are highly skilled individuals they have already the [1:23:09] people who are being processed applied a decade ago. The people who are applying right now have such a long [1:23:15] weight in front of them. They will likely die before they receive a green card even though the the [1:23:21] highest skilled people in our immigration system. So no the immigration system is not working. If you [1:23:27] look at the biggest hole in the immigration system it's really for people going to jobs that are year [1:23:34] round. They're not seasonal. They're not temporary jobs. But they don't require a college degree. [1:23:38] That's where when you look at the people who crossed the border over the last four years. [1:23:42] Where are they going? Those are those are the jobs they're going into. Meat packing and processing, [1:23:47] dairy and so on. That's where we need workers and there's no visa at all for those people. [1:23:52] And there's literally no process right now where we can say this is the these are the jobs that we [1:23:57] need in the United States and so we're going to make sure that we fill those jobs. I mean there [1:24:02] there just hasn't been any changes to the immigration system in a positive light for over 30 years. So let me [1:24:07] go to the next central argument which is around public safety. Well actually before I do that let [1:24:13] me ask you if Trump and the Republicans were successful in getting rid of all immigrants in [1:24:18] this country what would happen to our economy? Briefly because I have two other questions I want to ask you. [1:24:22] It would be a devastating blow to our economy because they work at higher rates. You're talking about [1:24:27] trillions of dollars in economic activity. A massive reduction in the in the rate of net tax flows. So a huge [1:24:34] contraction and increase in our deficit almost 800 billion dollars in 2024. So a very significant [1:24:43] impact both to government budgets as well as the broader economy. So let me go to the public safety [1:24:49] argument because I think that there is this idea that if we just got rid of everyone who's undocumented [1:24:56] and maybe even people who are documented because so much of this is cutting off legal pathways to the [1:25:01] United States that you would be safer as a society. And I want to ask you about public safety and the rule of law [1:25:11] because Republicans are always claiming that they're the party of public safety. Is this strategy of harsher [1:25:19] immigration enforcement the only way to deal with this is to crack down on all the immigrants who are here. Does that help [1:25:25] public safety in the United States. No it doesn't. If you look at the the people who they're arresting [1:25:31] now the the marginal person the next person that they're going to arrest is going to be someone who [1:25:36] does not have any criminal convictions or charges against them. That is the majority of the people who [1:25:42] who they are arresting right now. And when you think about it more broadly if you want to prioritize [1:25:47] resources you want to go after the people who do have criminal convictions who are on the run. [1:25:52] And if you want to deal with this problem in a more fundamental way in a better way that will [1:25:56] actually cure the rule of law problem is have a legal process for the people who want to get on the [1:26:02] right side of the law too. Which is what you said. So very quickly why are they pursuing this strategy [1:26:08] Mr. Beer? Why do you think Republicans are pursuing the strategy that they're that they're undergoing? [1:26:14] I hate to speculate why they're they're pursuing the strategy. I honestly think there's a better approach [1:26:19] here. It's to fix the legal immigration system and let people get in line get vetted start [1:26:25] contributing to this country. General ladies time has expired. Mr. White. I thank the chairman. [1:26:33] Appreciate him holding his hearing. Mr. Coleman the individual who struck your daughter was here in [1:26:48] the United States illegally and had been released by the Biden administration. Is that correct? [1:26:56] That is correct yes. So the individual entered the United States illegally and then was released by the [1:27:02] Biden administration. Correct. And then ultimately was licensed to drive a commercial vehicle that [1:27:08] then struck your daughter harmed your daughter leaving her and your family dealing with the [1:27:16] consequences. Those are the facts correct? Correct. Ms. Fox the individual that caused harm to your [1:27:25] family was entered the United States also illegally. Correct? Correct. Was released by the Biden [1:27:34] administration. Correct? Correct. Onto the streets. Yes. Given a license and then caused the harm that your [1:27:44] family had to deal with. Is that correct? She didn't have a license. She could have gotten a license. [1:27:51] Unlicensed or even worse. Correct? She chose to break the law. Mr. Beer, should those individuals have been in the [1:28:01] United States? Yes or no? We should have a legal way to to vet them. Should I don't know these [1:28:08] should those individuals have been in the United States? Yes or no? We should allow people not people [1:28:14] legal. Those two. Mr. Beer, those two individuals. They should have been vetted. They should have been [1:28:18] screened. Should the screened for what away screened for what those two individuals were in the United [1:28:23] States illegally and then released. Should they have come into the United States and been here that we [1:28:28] should be deporting people who had no involvement? You're fine. You're fine with the two individuals [1:28:34] released by the Biden administration on the streets of the United States who were able to carry out and [1:28:38] engage in this activity that resulted in the death and destruction and the maiming of the American [1:28:43] people that we're just seeing right here. The witnesses to your left and right. I didn't say that. [1:28:46] You're totally fine with that. There should be a process. Right. Well, you refused to say that those [1:28:49] two individuals shouldn't have been here. That's your position. No. There should be a legal way. Should people be [1:28:54] able to come into the United States from anywhere in the world? Yes or no? Should they be able to come [1:29:00] and walk across our border? There should be a process for people to come to the United States. [1:29:02] Should they be able to walk across our border? Anywhere in the world, they should be able to come [1:29:05] in legally. Mr. Beer, should they be able to walk across the border and come into the United States [1:29:10] without regard to our visas and our laws? Yes or no? No. We should have a legal way for people to come. [1:29:15] So, all right. To be clear, I want to be clear for Mr. Beer in the position of the Cato Institute, [1:29:19] this should be very clear. Then there should be border security and people should not be allowed to [1:29:24] come into the United States. Of course there should be border security. I've never said [1:29:26] there shouldn't be border security. Now, should people be released by the [1:29:29] administration once they're here illegally? They're captured. They're in the control of [1:29:35] the administration, the government. Should they be released into the United States as was done under [1:29:40] the Biden administration? There should be a legal way. Should they be released when they're caught [1:29:45] illegally in the United States? Should they be released? Well, it depends on the circumstances, [1:29:49] sir. It depends on their circumstances. So some should be released. Ms. Fox, when people come here [1:29:54] illegally, should they be released onto the streets? No. Mr. Coleman, when people come here illegally, [1:29:59] should they be released on the streets? No. Sheriff Goller, when people come here illegally [1:30:05] and they're apprehended, should they be released onto the streets of the United States as was done [1:30:09] in the form of millions of people under the previous administration resulting in the death, [1:30:14] maiming and destruction of people in the United States? Should they be released? I would certainly say [1:30:18] that shows a complete disregard for our nation's laws and no. Another question. We're here talking about [1:30:24] sanctuary cities and we're talking about policies of continuing to perpetuate those who are legally [1:30:29] present in the United States that cause harm to Americans. Mr. Coleman, do you think that we could [1:30:36] do a better job of preventing even having sanctuary cities in the first place if we were to make [1:30:43] permanent and codify the kinds of border securities policies that the current administration are deploying [1:30:48] to stop the flow of people across our border? 100 percent, yes. So when this body, this committee, [1:30:54] passed legislation in July to permanently codify the Trump border policies that reflects what we did [1:31:00] in HR2 in the previous Congress to say that asylum and parole should not be abused to release people into [1:31:07] the United States, that the Democrat witness says it's perfectly fine to release people into the United [1:31:12] States who come here illegally, you agree we should make that permanent and codify it so we don't have [1:31:17] people coming in illegally who endanger American citizens? Correct, yes. Sheriff Goller, do you [1:31:22] agree we should make that permanent? I do. Ms. Fox, do you agree that we should make that permanent and [1:31:27] codify it so people are not released into the United States against our laws to endanger the American [1:31:32] people? I do. God bless you, Ms. Fox. God bless you, Mr. Coleman. I am sorry that our country has let [1:31:37] you down and that you have had to suffer the consequences of what the previous administration and our [1:31:42] colleagues on the other side of the aisle callously allow to occur, including the witnesses they invite, [1:31:47] and Sheriff Goller, thank you, and all of the law enforcement who stand up and defend this country [1:31:51] every single day. God bless you. Mr. Raskin. Oh, Mr. Nadler. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thanks to [1:32:04] our witnesses for being here and for sharing their stories. Mr. Chairman, while members of Congress have [1:32:10] been back in their districts for the last month, the Trump administration's mass deportation machine [1:32:15] has advanced unabated, continuing to leave chaos and misery in its wake. Flushed with hundreds of billions of [1:32:21] dollars from Congress, the administration has ramped up immigration arrests in recent months with [1:32:27] extreme tactics, resorting to racial profiling and without regard for whether those arrested actually [1:32:33] pose any danger to this country. Rather than sweeping up the quote, worst of the worst, as the [1:32:38] administration repeatedly claims, ICE has taken a scattershot approach that includes targeting people [1:32:44] married to U.S. citizens, people who entered the country legally and are pursuing an asylum claim, [1:32:50] and people with a temporary legal status that the administration has since moved to terminate. [1:32:54] Of the nearly 50,000 people per month that the Trump administration is arresting, [1:32:58] a majority have not been charged with or convicted of any crime. Those who committed [1:33:03] the violent crime constituted just four percent of those arrested last month. I ask unanimous consent [1:33:09] to enter into the record an article from the New York Times titled, ICE arrests soar as people [1:33:13] with no criminal record are increasingly targeted. I ask unanimous consent without objection. Another Times [1:33:23] article titled, Deportees recount harrowing journeys to Africa, shackles of freezer and blows, [1:33:29] described in excruciating detail the inhumane treatment of immigrants who are being abused by ICE [1:33:34] agents while being deported to third countries in which they have no ties, no job prospects, [1:33:39] and may not even speak the language. I ask unanimous consent to enter this article into the record as well. [1:33:44] Without objection. Similarly, by terminating temporary protected status for people who may have been here for [1:33:49] decades. They are uprooting people from our communities and in many cases sending them to [1:33:54] dangerous conditions. For example, the Trump administration wants to send hundreds of [1:33:59] thousands of people from Haiti whose TPS status has been revoked back to a country for which our [1:34:05] own State Department has issued a level four do not travel advisory, citing the risks of crime, [1:34:10] kidnapping, terrorism, unrest, and limited health care. This is cruelty on a mass scale and does not make [1:34:17] this country any safer, stronger, or more vibrant. In addition to the personal tragedy these policies [1:34:25] have wrought in our communities, they are also laying the groundwork for an economic catastrophe. [1:34:30] Quite simply, without immigrants, we will not have enough workers to support an aging population [1:34:34] in the decades ahead, which will lead to economic stagnation or worse. We are already seeing the effects [1:34:40] in the healthcare industry. According to one analysis, more than 20,000 Haitians with TPS status [1:34:46] worked as caregivers and nursing assistants as of last year, serving roughly 77,000 elderly patients. [1:34:53] But the Trump administration is moving rapidly to deport these people, leaving seniors and other [1:34:58] vulnerable populations in the lurch. While Donald Trump is busy launching a trade war against our closest [1:35:03] ally and childishly renaming bodies of water, our communities are being torn apart by his immigration [1:35:09] policies. But this committee has failed in its most basic oversight responsibilities. I hope that [1:35:15] will change very soon. Mr. Beyer, over the past year and a half, we have seen DHS break into people's [1:35:22] houses without a warrant, racially profile people, including U.S. citizens, when conducting immigration [1:35:27] enforcement. They have killed six U.S. citizens. Throughout all this, no one has been held accountable. [1:35:34] Why do you think this is the case? Well, the primary problem is that there's no statutory private right of [1:35:40] action to sue immigration agents, Department of Homeland Security agents. This is unique among [1:35:47] federal law enforcement officers. You can sue an FBI agent doing criminal law enforcement. [1:35:52] It's specific to civil immigration enforcement. The Supreme Court said there's no right for a private [1:35:58] individual to sue them and stop them. Of course, the administration supports all the things that you're [1:36:03] doing so that all the internal mechanisms to hold them accountable have been shredded. So when we're [1:36:09] talking about external mechanisms, we really need citizens to be empowered to file lawsuits. And the [1:36:16] Bivens Act, among other congressional measures, would allow for those lawsuits to go forward. [1:36:22] As I noted before, the Trump administration is hardly going after the worst of the worst. [1:36:27] Mr. Beyer, doesn't it make more sense for states and localities to focus their limited resources on violent [1:36:32] crime as opposed to helping the Trump administration with its reckless and lawless mass deportation [1:36:38] agenda? Well, absolutely. Only 50% of murders in the United States are solved. Only about 30 or 35% [1:36:44] of rapes are solved. Only about 10% of property crimes, thefts, burglaries and so on are solved. So [1:36:52] there's a tremendous amount of work to be done. And the idea that they should spend it on mass deportation [1:36:58] efforts in helping this racial profiling government engage in these efforts to round up our friends [1:37:03] and family members, that is not something they should be participating in. If someone's been convicted [1:37:08] of a crime, that's completely different. But when it comes to what this administration's actual strategy [1:37:14] is, no, they shouldn't be participating in that. They should be focused on keeping their communities safe. [1:37:19] Thank you, Mr. Beyer. My time is expired. I yield back. [1:37:21] Mr. Andre. [1:37:25] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And thank you for holding this hearing to once again emphasize the devastating [1:37:31] ways that sanctuary policies have come at the expense of innocent law-abiding Americans. I want [1:37:38] to especially thank Ms. Fox and Mr. Coleman for being here today. We realize how difficult this decision [1:37:45] to be here is for you. But I want to commend you both for coming here and speaking out on behalf of your [1:37:54] daughters. Thousands of criminal aliens have been released into our communities during the Biden [1:38:00] administration and allowed to remain here under sanctuary policies that allow them to evade law [1:38:05] enforcement. Law enforcement officers are already overwhelmed by the sheer number of illegal aliens. [1:38:10] They need help in detaining these criminals. Sanctuary policies limit cooperation with federal [1:38:16] authorities, making criminal aliens significantly harder to apprehend. Fortunately, in Missouri, we had [1:38:25] the foresight to ban sanctuary cities back in 2008. House Bill 1549. Doing that was my bill. But that does not [1:38:34] prevent Missouri and other non-sanctuary states, non-sanctuary cities, from being affected by sanctuary [1:38:41] policies and sanctuary states. I'd like to show a short video here. 18-wheeler going the wrong way down [1:38:57] southbound 61. So what we have here is a 80-ton. He is on the northbound lanes of 61 going the wrong way. [1:39:12] You can see I'm going southbound on 61. He's in the northbound lanes on highway 61. All right, I think we [1:39:30] have the idea here. You can cut the video. So this was an 80-ton semi-truck going down the wrong side of [1:39:41] interstate 61 in my district in Lincoln County, Missouri. It was being driven by an illegal alien from [1:39:50] Somalia who had a commercial driver's license issued by the sanctuary state of Minnesota. He could not read [1:40:00] basic road signs, and he spent miles driving the wrong way. This kind of reckless behavior, [1:40:07] unfortunately, is not tolerated in Missouri. Unlike in sanctuary jurisdictions, the Lincoln County [1:40:13] prosecutor did notify both the Department of Transportation and ICE. But this is the consequence [1:40:19] of widespread toleration of illegal immigration, as we see in Colorado, California, and elsewhere. [1:40:28] Ms. Fox, this issue has deeply affected your family. What sort of legal or policy changes [1:40:39] do you think we ought to pursue to avoid this happening to other families like yours? [1:40:48] Mass deportation. They all have to go. Every last one. Enforce the law, right? [1:40:55] Yes. Mr. Coleman? I agree. Mass deportation. There's got to be stricter vetting in the trucking [1:41:04] industry, which is why we're pushing for the Delilah law as well as the Delilah standard. There's too [1:41:09] many out there that are free to go and do as they please with no consequences. We have no idea who we're [1:41:14] looking for. Mr. Coleman, I understand you yourself are a commercial driver? Correct, I am. And what is [1:41:21] your response when we have illegal aliens who hardly speak English, cannot read basic road signs? [1:41:29] When did you get your CDL? I received my CDL in 2019. [1:41:34] 2019, so seven years ago, not that long ago. Correct. [1:41:38] Do you think you could have gotten a commercial driver's license if you couldn't understand, [1:41:45] read basic signs, speak English at a basic level? No, I went through an actual school, [1:41:51] so mine was actually pretty hard to get. I had to do actual training and actual reading and testing and [1:41:57] everything like that. I didn't backdoor it. And to his statement that, you know, if we deported all [1:42:04] the illegal immigrants that we would hit a huge deficit, I find that falsely true. There's no [1:42:10] way that's going to happen. And under this administration, the Department of Transportation [1:42:15] under Sean Duffy has shut down a lot of these schools that are so-called schools that are basically [1:42:20] just diploma mills for illegal aliens to get CDLs. Well, thank you all for coming here to testify today. [1:42:27] Thank you, sir. I yield back. Mr. Chairman, a couple submissions for the record. [1:42:32] In direct response to some witness testimony, Mr. Beer from Cato tweeted on August 25th, [1:42:39] and I submit for the record, quote, every single person on the United States soil should be allowed [1:42:44] to work without any restrictions of any kind. So that's the record. I would also insert into the [1:42:51] record a tweet by Mr. Beer from, oh gosh, just about a day ago, talking about border patrols should be [1:43:01] banished to the actual border, opining about which is why it made so few arrests in the 1920s, not because [1:43:07] illegal immigration was so low, which refutes some suspicion. Mr. Correa. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [1:43:17] I want to thank the witnesses for being here today and one, Mr. Coleman, Ms. Fox, father, also four [1:43:25] children, now adults. And every time they go out at night, I pray for their safe return. New Year's Eve, [1:43:34] don't go out, please. Just because of the challenges, the dangers out there. Talk today about immigration. [1:43:45] My opinion, immigration is not about immigrants. Immigration, it's about the American economic miracle. [1:43:52] You want to stop undocumented? Simple. Stop hiring them. Stop giving them jobs. Tell the employers, [1:44:02] make your choice, obey the law, fire them all and go out of business or disobey the law, don't fire them [1:44:13] and stay in business. It's a simple decision. I agree, Mr. Beard, we need immigration reform. There is no front [1:44:25] door. I've got workers, taxpayers, never have gotten a traffic ticket in their lives, 40 years in the U.S., [1:44:36] getting deported. Many of them now with work permits, getting deported. Immigration reform. The U.S. [1:44:46] Chamber of Commerce, number one goal is 3% U.S. economic growth. Their number two goal, immigration reform. [1:44:57] They can't get the 3% economic growth without immigration, without the workers. Wisconsin dairy [1:45:04] farms, home builders, senior care facilities, manufacturing, farmers, high-tech corridor. Mr. [1:45:14] Beard, I'd like to start with you, sir, and talk a little bit about military families. In August, [1:45:20] the Associated Press reported that more than 50 parents and spouses of active duty service members [1:45:27] have been detained since better than Trump's second term. And at least six have been deported. [1:45:36] Father of a sailor, Joshua Aviles, on the USS Abraham Lincoln, was detained by ICE. Thankfully, [1:45:45] they haven't deported him yet. Second case, Umberto Martinez, was arrested while driving his children [1:45:53] and was deported to Mexico within hours, even though he had pending parole in place. His daughter, [1:46:03] Jessica, Umberto's daughter, Jessica, a Navy aviation ordinance, ordinanceman, was deployed abroad, [1:46:12] is deployed abroad, the USS Abraham Lincoln. The day her father was deported, she was heading to Iran. [1:46:21] Mr. Beard, these are American soldiers, have taken the oath to protect this country, to make the ultimate [1:46:30] sacrifice if needed. How will deporting their parents make our country stronger? [1:46:36] It will not. It will weaken our country. It will drive Americans, soldiers, from this, [1:46:43] this country to go with their families. We've already seen it happen, with spouses being deported [1:46:48] and American soldiers choosing to follow them. That's not the American way. [1:46:51] Mr. Beard, let me talk a little bit about the sanctuary cities issue in California. In California, [1:46:58] we do have a law that allows local law enforcement to turn individuals over to ICE, despite the sanctuary [1:47:06] city law. So the poster here will show you some of the exceptions. But more importantly, [1:47:12] I have another poster. In 2025, in Orange County where I live, 323 individuals were turned over to ICE [1:47:22] for pickup. 52 of them were never turned, picked up. So we talk about the worst of the most, [1:47:29] Mr. President Trump, worst of the worst, these were not picked up. It's no excuse. California, [1:47:37] biggest economy in the U.S., fourth largest in the world. We pay $80 billion more to the federal [1:47:47] government in federal taxes than we get back. In California, what we're trying to do is protect our [1:47:54] economy, protect our taxpayers, and protect our citizens from crimes. A lot of the times, [1:48:05] undocumented are witnesses in cases. We're doing the right thing for the United States government. [1:48:13] Mr. Chairman, I'm out of time. I yield. Chairman Neal is back. Chairman Jordan. [1:48:19] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Sheriff Gaylor, why are you suing your state? [1:48:26] Because after nearly a decade, and Sheriff Jenkins is with me today, he had the longest 287G [1:48:32] program in the country at a point because our government has, our Maryland government, governor, [1:48:40] legislature has decided that we should not be cooperating with our federal partners, [1:48:44] that we should not be working hand in hand with ICE, that local jurisdictions cannot make those [1:48:49] decisions for themselves. And they've gone a step further with the Community Trust Act, [1:48:54] that's the name of it, not what it actually does, and to prohibit even contacting ICE to honor [1:49:00] any of the detainers that come in. But why are you really doing it? What underlies that? This idea [1:49:08] that you're suing because you don't like the state telling you you can't work with the federal [1:49:12] government, but what's the underlying reason? Why do you want to be able to work with the federal [1:49:15] government? The underlying reason is exactly what I've done, dedicated 40 years of my life, and then [1:49:20] as a candidate for this office three terms ago, I ran on the platform of bringing the 287G program, [1:49:27] simple public safety. Public safety 101. There you have it. That's it. Safety. Yes, sir. Chief law enforcement [1:49:34] officer in your jurisdiction, this is about the safety of the people you've been elected to serve. [1:49:41] And this policy of your state jeopardizes the safety of the very people you are elected to [1:49:48] serve. Is that accurate? That is 100% accurate. Because why else would you bring a suit against your [1:49:52] own darned state? You're a county sheriff in that state of Maryland. Why else would you do it? The [1:49:57] only reason is because it jeopardizes the safety of the people in your community. And here's the kicker. [1:50:04] Almost a third of the United States is living in a jurisdiction where the safety of those citizens is [1:50:09] jeopardized by the sanctuary jurisdiction policy. Is that accurate? I believe so. And we've, [1:50:15] Maryland has just joined in a ultra sanctuary madness, in my opinion. Yeah. And sanctuary jurisdiction, [1:50:21] do you believe sheriff sanctuary jurisdiction is a magnet for people, illegal immigrants to come [1:50:26] to jurisdictions that have the sanctuary policy? Absolutely. If you tolerate crime, criminal behavior, [1:50:33] or illegal immigration, you're going to get more of it. And the end result is the tragedies that Ms. [1:50:38] Fox and Mr. Coleman and their families have had to endure. Is that right? Yes, as well as the tragedies [1:50:42] I described in my own county. Yep. And the guy sitting beside you said, I think his opening state, [1:50:46] Mr. Beer, your opening statement was all immigrants benefit America. Mr. Sheriff Gaylor, [1:50:51] do you agree with that statement? I didn't say that. Well, I'll read from your testimony. Your [1:50:56] testimony says people, whatever their ancestry, background, or birthplace benefit the United [1:51:00] States. You didn't say that? Yeah. People of all types of backgrounds benefit the United [1:51:05] States. It's not every single person. Okay. I just read from your testimony. Whatever their ancestry, [1:51:11] background, or birthplace benefit the United States. Well, let me ask you a question then. I think you've [1:51:14] been asked about this before. How many Somalis are in the state of Minnesota? Do you know, Mr. Beer? Tens of thousands. I don't know. [1:51:22] 42,000. Do you know how many of those 42,000 Somalis in Minnesota are on food stamps? [1:51:29] Probably about 50 percent. 54 percent. You know how many are on Medicaid? It's not a pop quiz. I don't [1:51:35] know. 73 percent. Do you know how many get some kind of government assistance? A high percentage. [1:51:41] A high percentage. But you just said in your statement, people, whatever their ancestry, [1:51:46] background, or birthplace benefit the United States. Does it benefit the United States of 42,000 Somalis [1:51:51] that come to Minnesota and 89 percent of them? You passed the one big, beautiful bill. You could [1:51:57] have gotten rid of welfare for immigrants, and I supported that. My question is, you see, [1:52:01] no, I'm looking at your statement. You said people, whatever their ancestry, background, birthplace, [1:52:06] benefit the United States. And I'm asking you if 89 percent of 42,000 Somalis who are on public [1:52:12] assistance, if that benefits the United States. The public assistance doesn't. The people working, [1:52:16] contributing does. So get rid of the public assistance. I support getting rid of the public [1:52:23] assistance. You are the ones voting for bills that funds the public assistance for them. [1:52:26] Do you know how many Somalis who have been here for 10 years are still on public assistance? [1:52:30] We could cut that off tomorrow. You're in charge. You write the rules. [1:52:35] No, here's the question. Here's the question. Is that a benefit to the country? [1:52:39] No, giving them money does not benefit the country. Them working and contributing benefits the country. [1:52:46] And why do you keep voting for bills that funds? I don't. I'm for change of welfare. I'm just asking. [1:52:52] You say they benefit the country and I'm saying they come to the country and they're on public. [1:52:56] By the way, in Minnesota, it's even worse. They didn't stop with just taking benefits from the [1:53:00] country. They were engaging in fraud. They were ripping off the taxpayers. And you say that's a [1:53:05] benefit to the country. People of all types benefit the country. Absolutely. [1:53:10] Well, I get that general statement. I'm asking you specifically about what's going on with Somali [1:53:15] population in Minnesota. People are good. That's all that statement is. People are good. Do you [1:53:19] disagree with that? People are good? I mean, what are you arguing against? I don't know that the [1:53:23] people were good who did the crimes against Mr. Coleman's daughter and Ms. Fox's daughter. [1:53:28] Not every single person is good. But you didn't say that. You said people are good. [1:53:32] Of all types. Like I said, there are bad people too. Here's the point. [1:53:35] They're bad people. I agree. Here's the point, Mr. Beer. Sheriff Gaylor says the bad people, [1:53:40] he wants to work with federal law enforcement to make sure they don't harm his community. [1:53:44] So much so that he's willing to sue his state. That's how serious it is. And you disagree with [1:53:51] that. That's the point. No, get rid of the bad people. Get rid of the bad people. I don't disagree [1:53:54] with that. I never said I disagree with that. The general lady is correct. The gentleman's time [1:53:57] has expired. Mr. Raskin. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Beer, let's pursue some of these points because [1:54:06] I read an actual academic study that you did with the rather stunning headline, [1:54:14] ICE is releasing 23% more convicted criminals than under Biden. Today, you write, [1:54:23] ICE is actually releasing more immigrants with criminal convictions and pending criminal charges [1:54:27] than during President Biden's term. Since January 2025, when President Trump took office, ICE has released [1:54:33] 25,712 people with criminal convictions or pending charges and over 2000 had violent criminal records. [1:54:41] The data complicate the claim that President Biden was less committed to preventing criminal releases [1:54:49] than Trump was. So why do we get such militant rhetoric on the one side and then a completely different [1:54:57] reality on the other? ICE is releasing 23% more convicted criminals than were released under Biden, [1:55:03] and they want to blame everything on President Biden. It's because they care more about the total [1:55:08] number of people entering detention than they do about the quality of deportations. And so what [1:55:14] we've seen at the same time that we've seen the criminal increase releases increase, we've seen this [1:55:19] enormous 14 fold increase in the number of arrests and detentions of people without any criminal records [1:55:25] or charges. Okay. And so let's get to that. You say more striking is how much the administration has [1:55:32] increased arrests and detentions of individuals without criminal charges or without criminal [1:55:37] convictions, even while it is not reducing the release of people who actually have a criminal [1:55:43] conviction. So what is that about? And does that have to do with Stephen Miller? Because what we hear [1:55:50] from people, at least on the street, and some people from ICE have spoken about it, is that there's a quota [1:55:55] of getting 2,000 people a day or 3,000 people a day. They don't care if people with criminal convictions [1:56:01] are being pumped out of the system or being driven out as long as you get more people in. [1:56:05] Yeah. So ICE agents have spoken to the New York Post, the Wall Street Journal, [1:56:11] Washington Examiner, other conservative publications about how, quote, we're going for quantity over [1:56:17] quality when it comes to arrests and detentions. And they are concerned about the violent fugitives that [1:56:22] they aren't going after because of the devotion to mass deportation over public safety. [1:56:29] Well, rhetoric and reality, we have Donald Trump pardoning international narco-traffickers, [1:56:36] like Juan Orlando Hernandez, who said, we're going to shove the cocaine up the nostrils of the gringos [1:56:42] and brought in hundreds of tons of cocaine to the country. We had him pardon a Florida man, [1:56:49] who several weeks after the pardon went out and sexually abused two middle school children [1:56:54] and was convicted and sentenced to prison for life. Meantime, the lives of those two children [1:56:59] were ruined. So what exactly is going on in this radical disparity between the rhetoric, which is [1:57:07] anti-crime, but the reality, which is pro-crime and pro-criminal? There's hundreds of people, [1:57:12] a couple of thousand people have been pardoned by Donald Trump who've committed vicious crimes. [1:57:19] What's going on with that? Including Medicaid fraud in the millions, hundreds of millions of dollars [1:57:25] have been pardoned by this president. So look, when you think about what the strategy is when it comes [1:57:31] to immigration, it is all about, like you said, the quota, the number of people, the number of bodies [1:57:37] entering ICE detention facilities and getting that money, that $250 billion out the door, [1:57:43] to fund these facilities into the future. Well, Mr. Chairman, I'd like to introduce for the record [1:57:50] the Cato Blog Institute. ICE is releasing 23 percent more convicted criminals than were released under [1:57:56] Biden by David Beer, if I could, unanimous consent. Okay. So rhetoric in reality. Now, [1:58:05] I believe this is the fifth or sixth hearing we've done designed to get legislation passed from the [1:58:11] committee that was passed back in March. Why do you think this has not been brought to the floor [1:58:17] of the House of Representatives? I don't think it's fair to any of the people invested in it, whether you [1:58:22] think this is the greatest legislation in the world or you think it's misguided and moves in the wrong [1:58:27] direction. Regardless, it's not fair to keep bringing people back to run the same hearing when the [1:58:33] legislation is already passed out of the committee and they're not even explaining to anyone why it's [1:58:37] not being brought to the floor, which is how the legislative process works. Well, I think it's the [1:58:42] legislation that's being discussed is unconstitutional and it's probably unpopular with sheriffs and [1:58:50] you know, other law enforcement within the states that, you know, these individuals represent because [1:58:57] it's forcing, it's creating a mandate and it's creating liability for these municipalities if they [1:59:05] don't do exactly what the federal government wants. They certainly don't have the money that ICE has [1:59:09] and the Department of Homeland Security. I mean, you're talking, you can't even compare with the local [1:59:13] police department. All right. Well, I'm out of time and I go back to you, Mr. Chairman. Chairman McClintock. [1:59:19] Thank you, Chairman. Can I ask a question? No, somebody will have to ask you a question to ask [1:59:32] a question. Before I'm done, I'll yield some time to you. I just want to get started and then I'll yield [1:59:37] some time to you. Is that okay, Ms. Fox? Thank you. You're welcome. First of all, to Ms. Fox and Mr. Coleman, [1:59:45] here I am again. Here we all are again. The other side says we do this over and over. Why? [1:59:53] We know why. We do it for you. And it's not good enough. Condolences aren't good enough. I believe [1:59:59] in prayer. I pray every single day, every morning. But prayer has to be followed by action. That's the [2:00:10] purpose of it, if you believe. And the point of doing this hearing is that we need to have [2:00:16] the action. And some of those actions have begun, but not enough. I wish you all were sitting up here, [2:00:23] and I know you know it because you've gone to some of the hearings, both of you, where we talk about [2:00:28] immigration is a good thing. Yeah, it is a good thing. Legal immigration. Most of us were immigrants. [2:00:37] They keep trying to blur it on the other side. Legal immigration is a wonderful thing. Immigrants are good. [2:00:43] The mixture of people. The diversity. It's all good. Nobody here on this side is saying it's not. [2:00:49] So let me clear the air about that. The value of these hearings, and we will keep doing them [2:00:54] over and over and over again until people, children of every age actually, people of all ages, [2:01:02] stop dying in this country because the job is not being done right. Law enforcement is not [2:01:09] allowed to do its job often. And you know, we talked about the mistakes in deportation on the other [2:01:16] side, and I don't like if there were mistakes, and that's open to question as well. But all those [2:01:21] people still have their lives. That mistake was a terrible inconvenience, but they have their lives. [2:01:30] Your kids do not. And there's nothing we can do on this committee to bring their life back. [2:01:36] That's the difference. So maybe a little overly zealous sometimes. I don't know. But my God, [2:01:42] we're trying to save people's lives. And you know what's better also than academic studies? [2:01:51] Is reality. No offense to you, Mr. Muir, but academic studies are great. I want to study you [2:01:59] all. I want to understand what you're going through. We never will. We never will. We can. [2:02:06] And yet we have sanctuary states. So, you know, I'm here today, of course, on this committee, but [2:02:11] I live in New Jersey. I'm a member of Congress for the state of New Jersey, and my district is only [2:02:16] about a half. It's Chris Smith's district. It's about a half hour away from me. We share Ocean [2:02:20] County. I know that area well. My wife grew up in that area. That's so sad what happened there. [2:02:27] And it didn't have to happen. That's the point. That's why we're here over and over again. That's [2:02:34] why we keep having these hearings. That's why, even though it breaks your hearts to have to testify, [2:02:40] you do it, because you don't want it to happen to somebody else. That's why we're having the damn [2:02:45] hearing. We're tired of it. This is, we've been at this for years. The children that have been raped [2:02:51] and beaten, the people that have been murdered, disfigured, tortured. I'm not going to go through [2:02:58] all the names. It makes you sick. And now you're on the list. It's a lousy list to be on. I don't [2:03:05] know how you do it. And the condolences don't do it. Nothing does it. The only thing that will help you a [2:03:10] little bit is if you are at peace knowing that the job is finally being done correctly. That's what [2:03:16] will help. And I know, Mr. Beer, that you had spoken in the past about the financial impact, [2:03:26] and some others have. Look, I love capitalism. I think making money is good. But we're talking [2:03:32] about human life. Don't tell me that we have to have open borders and sanctuary states so people can [2:03:38] make more money. I don't buy that. I don't think we have to, number one. And I think that's a bad [2:03:44] judgment to come to and a bad mistake. And your kid's life is worth more than any amount of money [2:03:52] in the world. And don't tell me that open borders and illegal immigration is good for the country. [2:03:59] It's not. If only your children died, it wouldn't be good for the country. But so many did. And Sheriff, [2:04:06] I'm sorry for what you have to go through trying to enforce the law. You swore an oath to enforce [2:04:12] the law. What don't we get about this? They're breaking the law. Ms. Fox, you wanted to say [2:04:18] something. I wanted to ask something this whole time. What's your guys's number? Because if anybody [2:04:28] had come to my door and said, would you give your daughter's life for these people to cross the border [2:04:35] illegally? I would have said no. Not one. Obviously, we're not there yet. Obviously, the American [2:04:46] people will continue to suffer. Obviously, American citizens will still bury their children [2:04:54] or take care of them for the rest of their lives. So what is your number? That's it. [2:05:03] I'm afraid the gentleman's time has expired. Number zero. Ms. Scanlon. [2:05:13] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Ms. Fox, as a mom myself, obviously, my heart goes out to you. [2:05:21] And the struggles you've had to get appropriate care for your daughter. I've worked with folks with [2:05:27] profound injuries and disabilities like that for years. So you deserve better. Your daughter deserves [2:05:34] better, obviously. You know, I wish that we were here to address the very serious issues of public safety [2:05:44] and what we need to do to fix a very broken immigration system. But unfortunately, it's just [2:05:53] another day in the Judiciary Committee where our colleagues, our Republican colleagues, are going to [2:05:58] repeat untruths about sanctuary policies and about our immigrant neighbors. They will sit here ranting about [2:06:07] public safety even as we see an unprecedented surge in arrests of law-abiding immigrants and citizens [2:06:16] in ways that are actually undermining public safety in my community and in other communities around the [2:06:21] country. No one on this side of the aisle is saying that criminals, particularly violent criminals, [2:06:28] should be given a free pass. Our disagreement is about the misuse of federal resources and taxpayer dollars [2:06:36] that actually are making our communities less safe. No one is safer when DHS agents are threatening or [2:06:44] pointing guns at American citizens, making warrantless arrests, and executing people in the streets. [2:06:50] No one is safer when the administration is prioritizing arrest quotas and arresting people who are [2:06:56] showing up at ICE offices or immigration hearings because they are following the rules. And when that is [2:07:05] happening instead of pursuing serious investigations and dangerous people, that's a problem for all of us. [2:07:12] Just last month, the DHS inspector general released a report revealing that this administration's focus [2:07:18] on mass deportation and the diversion of agents to focus on that has resulted in a one-third cut in the [2:07:27] investigation and prosecution of fentanyl smuggling and child trafficking cases. So there is a cost [2:07:34] to what happens when you pursue law-abiding non-citizen immigrants in this country. And to add insult to [2:07:43] injury, the biggest beneficiary of this mass deportation effort appears to be the private prison companies [2:07:49] like GEO and CoreCivic, which are being paid billions of taxpayer dollars to imprison people who have not [2:07:57] committed any crimes, committed any crimes, and many of whom entered this country legally. In Pennsylvania, the [2:08:04] Moshannon detention camp is being paid more than five million dollars a month to detain non-violent, [2:08:12] non-criminal immigrants, and is then cutting its cost to make more profit by using the labor of detained people to run the prison camp, [2:08:21] to clean the toilets and make the food and do the laundry. So, you know, it turns on its head this [2:08:29] idea that immigrants are taking American jobs when you are actually detaining people and using their forced [2:08:35] labor to cut Americans out of jobs. It's immoral on so many grounds. But I want to go back to the basic [2:08:42] premise here of sanctuary cities because it appears that those who oppose sanctuary jurisdictions do so in [2:08:49] the mistaken belief that those cities are providing sanctuary to violent criminals. And that's just [2:08:55] not true. As I raised in our last meeting, and Mr. Beer's testimony confirms, communities that adopt [2:09:01] sanctuary city policies do so in order to improve public safety and respond to local law enforcement [2:09:08] priorities. Attacking sanctuary policies and forcing cities to collaborate with ICE's chaos and cruelty [2:09:17] actually undermines public safety. It makes community members fear interaction with law enforcement. [2:09:23] It reduces cooperation and reporting and prosecution of violent crimes, and it diverts local tax dollars to [2:09:32] support that chaos and corruption. I regularly meet with our local police and they are always scrambling to [2:09:38] get more resources to do their jobs, to keep their communities safe. They do not have the billions of dollars that DHS has. [2:09:46] But when DHS forces local police departments to participate in their activities to detain [2:09:54] folks who have not committed any crimes, they have less ability to set up a drunk driving checkpoint on [2:10:00] the Labor Day holiday or to go out and investigate a local drug trafficking ring. Mr. Beer, can you talk a little [2:10:08] bit about how the argument about sanctuary cities relates to the priorities and relative constitutional [2:10:13] powers of federal law enforcement and local law enforcement? [2:10:15] Generality's time has expired. I'll give the gentleman 15 seconds. [2:10:18] In 15 seconds. Look, we want to investigate crimes, and you need participation from victims and [2:10:25] witnesses in order to prosecute offenders. This is what the administration has been undermining since the beginning. [2:10:31] Generality's time has expired. Thank you. And I'd refer people back to your testimony, [2:10:35] which I thought was very thorough. Mr. Moore. I yield back. [2:10:38] Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Mr. Coleman and Ms. Fox. I appreciate your testimony today. I know it's [2:10:43] quite painful, I'm sure, but we appreciate you helping us get more of this to the public. People get to [2:10:48] understand what's happening to American families as an open border policy in the past four years and [2:10:54] basically mass migration into the United States. Sheriff Gaylor, I'm curious. I know you sued, [2:11:04] obviously, your state for sanctuary policies. What does that look like when now, if you have somebody [2:11:10] that you've arrested, are you not allowed at all to notify ICE, even if they have a criminal record? [2:11:16] How does that tie your hands? I have a criminal record. Absent a judicial warrant, we cannot honor the [2:11:23] detainers. And only on certain crimes after conviction. Running a local detention center, [2:11:30] most of our inmate population comes through on arrests and local sentencing. But the Department [2:11:37] of Corrections is now, unless under a certain category of crime, a list of crimes, they cannot talk to ICE [2:11:45] and let them know that that person is being released. So basically, you just turn them back out on the [2:11:49] street. Yes. You know, I was in the prior administration, I had a judge, he's retired now, [2:11:55] tell me that he would literally have an individual drinking and driving in the courtroom and they'd be [2:12:02] found guilty. And then he released them, the ICE and the prior administration would go down the street [2:12:07] and put those people back out on the street. Obviously, we had a lot of people killed. As a result, [2:12:11] one individual had five DUIs. But it's certainly, I was just curious to how that works now. And you're just [2:12:18] basically having to turn those folks back out on the street. There's nothing you can do to get them [2:12:21] out of this country if they're here illegal. Correct. That's what the Maryland Community [2:12:25] Trust Act has now implemented across the state of Maryland. What does that do to public safety? [2:12:31] Oh, in my professional opinion, after 40 years of doing this job, and for my fellow sheriffs behind [2:12:37] us, it harms public safety. It puts dangerous people back on the street. Or even if it's not dangerous, [2:12:42] and we get around that wheel a lot, even if it's minor crimes, [2:12:47] our citizens deserve to be protected from crime by law enforcement. [2:12:51] Mr. Coleman, you got your CDLs. I have my CDLs. You had to go through a pretty strict driving [2:13:00] course, I guess, a road test, written test. How long did they actually train you before they [2:13:05] turned you loose on the road with, were you a class A CDL driver, class B? Class A, yes. The school [2:13:12] itself was about three and a half, four weeks. And then I did six months driver training with another [2:13:19] driver when I hired on to. The instructor in the truck or somebody with a CDL. Correct, yes. [2:13:22] What's the weight of that truck? I mean, legal weight, I don't know. [2:13:24] 80,000 pounds maximum weight without permit. 80,000, that's right. Yeah, yeah. And you know, [2:13:28] I got my CDLs and there were times, even growing up, being around it, being trained, taking the [2:13:34] written test, the road test, doing the inspections on air brakes, all those things I had to do. There were [2:13:39] still times that I was concerned just going down the road because a car would pull out or there'd be road [2:13:46] signs or I'd be in traffic. And so what do you make of it when California just issues CDLs? [2:13:52] Apparently they're just issuing them to drivers now and turning them loose with these vehicles. [2:13:56] What does that do to public safety in your opinion? There is no public safety at that point. It's [2:14:02] it's everybody, every person for themselves. When I was growing up, my grandma used to tell me all the [2:14:07] time, don't worry about the semi trucks. They know exactly what they're doing on the road. That's no [2:14:11] longer the case now. We're no longer professional profession. It is so true, right? I mean, used to, [2:14:16] you could, the drivers were professional drivers. They knew how to change the lanes, make the turn, [2:14:21] swing wide, whatever they had to do, break in advance if something was happening. And now we've [2:14:25] got people who literally may not can drive a vehicle, an automobile safe. And we're putting them [2:14:31] in 80,000 pound trucks, letting them drive 65 miles an hour down the road. And some of them can't read our [2:14:36] road summons. Exactly. Correct. Ms. Fox, I know that, uh, and the sheriff's talking about sanctuary [2:14:42] cities. And I know you, apparently you live in a jurisdiction that's sanctuary, but the lady that [2:14:48] hit and hurt your daughter, um, she didn't even have a driver's license. She was just turned loose on [2:14:56] the streets, I guess, in your neighborhood. Correct. And if you know that you talk about mass [2:15:01] deportation in a situation like that, sheriff wouldn't have had a chance to probably check her [2:15:09] background. She just was here in the U S driving. And so, you know, I'm moving more and more towards [2:15:14] mass deportation, I think, because even in these situations, if they don't have a CDL or if they're [2:15:19] not, they don't have a prior conviction, if they're here illegally, chances are there is a possibility [2:15:26] that U S citizens are going to get harmed and that's a damage to public safety. Yes, it's a risk to [2:15:30] public safety. Thank you all for your testimony. Mr. Chairman, I'll yield back. [2:15:33] Uh, Ms. Ross. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And I want to thank all of our witnesses for being here today. [2:15:41] And Ms. Fox and Mr. Coleman, I am just deeply, deeply sorry about what happened to your children. [2:15:50] It is unimaginable. And I thank you for being brave enough to come here and testify today. [2:15:59] I want to just say, as Mr. Raskin pointed out, that we're here again, [2:16:04] talking about sanctuary cities and we do have a bill that passed out of this committee, um, [2:16:10] and hasn't been brought to the floor. And so I am confused about that, um, why we're having [2:16:17] another hearing on something where we have active legislation. I'm also confused about why we're not [2:16:25] having a hearing about the private prison industry and its, um, detention of so many people who have [2:16:36] no criminal record. We have had no hearings on the private prison industry. And, uh, at least three of [2:16:45] us from the judiciary committee went to visit a private prison in the month of August in Georgia. [2:16:52] The conditions were deplorable. Ranking member Jayapal, um, led us. I spent time talking to the [2:17:00] representative from core civic about how great business has been for core civic. That was the, [2:17:07] the focus of what our conversation was about. And in the meantime, our tax dollars are being used [2:17:16] to house these people in the private prisons at between 150 and $200 a day. And those are tax dollars [2:17:26] that could go to fighting crime. I want to, um, ask unanimous consent to introduce for the record, [2:17:35] prison firm donated to Trump's PAC after ICE gave it $165 million a year in contracts. [2:17:43] Without objection. And then, um, also Trump has made 29 private prison stock trades since in taking [2:17:52] office. Without objection. Thank you so much. So meanwhile, this administration is slashing [2:18:00] desperately needed funding for state and local law enforcement officers while pulling law enforcement [2:18:07] officers off complex criminal cases to just to pursue, pursue filling up these prisons. And now [2:18:15] they want to force state and local law enforcement to carry out this same agenda. Mr. Byer, the Trump [2:18:24] administration claims that they're only going after the worst of the worst targeting violent criminals [2:18:30] for deportation. But according to ICE's own data, a large majority of the immigrants they've arrested and [2:18:37] detained in these private prisons have no criminal records. Could you tell us, um, what the Trump [2:18:46] administration really is doing here? Are they going after the worst of the worst? The interesting thing [2:18:52] to note, we talk about the criminal convictions and the records, but actually these ICE facilities and [2:18:57] the ICE agents who book people in have to make a threat level determination when they book them in. [2:19:04] And what we see is you can have, you have a level one, level two, level three, or no threat level. [2:19:08] Well, 74% of the people booked into ICE facilities, they're booking them in at no threat level at all. [2:19:15] Only 10% are the highest threat level. So on the outside, they're saying this is all about public safety [2:19:21] and these people are a huge threat. Internal documents show, no, they don't think they're a big threat. [2:19:28] They're, they're just, uh, detaining them purely to get them to give up on their legal rights to stay [2:19:34] in the United States. That's the only reason they're detaining them. And it's actually working. [2:19:39] People are giving up on their cases as a result of the deplorable conditions that you're talking [2:19:43] about in these facilities. And actually, Mr. Bayer, um, there is a gentleman from my community [2:19:50] who gave up on his case the day before a judge said that he could have stayed in this country. [2:19:56] Unbelievable. The day before. Can you describe how, um, using resources this way rather than, [2:20:07] um, investing in local law enforcement affects our ability to catch the worst of the worst? [2:20:12] Absolutely. I mean, there's a great example. The, the Office of Inspector General just did a report on [2:20:18] fentanyl trafficking, looking at Homeland Security investigations arm of ICE. When the Trump [2:20:24] administration came in, they diverted, uh, 1.7 million man hours into civil immigration enforcement, [2:20:32] depleted the amount of man hours in, in all other areas, including fentanyl, but sex trafficking, [2:20:39] terrorism, child, uh, trafficking, all of these types of offenses were reduced in and shifted into [2:20:46] this mass deportation focus. That's not in the interest of public safety. Everyone knows that's not in [2:20:51] the interest of public safety. Eighty percent of fentanyl traffickers are U.S. citizens. So the, [2:20:57] the idea that it makes sense to divert all these resources to immigration enforcement, it just [2:21:01] doesn't work. Thank you. I yield that. Mr. Fry. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, uh, to our witnesses, [2:21:10] uh, for being here, particularly the parents who've gone through a lot. It's very brave to be here. [2:21:14] Sheriff, I want to go through some hypotheticals. I want to know how these sanctuary laws actually work [2:21:19] in practice. Uh, so say John Doe is sitting in your jail cell awaiting trial for attempted murder. [2:21:25] It's a serious charge. Um, he's not yet been convicted. Ice independently identifies him as being [2:21:32] removable. Ice isn't asking your deputies to go find him. You've already got him. Uh, but ice calls and [2:21:38] says, Sheriff, just tell us when he's released. Are you allowed to do that under the Maryland law? [2:21:43] The community trust act prohibits that exact. So you can't even talk to ice about, uh, his, his [2:21:49] release at all. Correct. Would not be even able to confirm his incarceration. Think about that. [2:21:58] The sheriff has the defendant. Ice knows the defendant is there. He's removable. They want [2:22:02] him after Maryland has administered justice, but the missing ingredient is apparently a permission slip [2:22:08] from the state capitol in Annapolis. Um, I'm not asking you to hold, let's go through the same [2:22:14] hypothetical. I'm not asking you to hold him for 48 hours. I'm not asking you to do ice's job, [2:22:18] or make a new arrest. You open the jail cell right when Maryland law says that you must, [2:22:23] uh, and ice calls and says, you know, or can the sheriff ask or tell ice beforehand which door [2:22:31] that the defendant is coming out of and when we would not be able to do that. That would be coordinating [2:22:36] with federal authorities. So, so that is the conduct that Maryland restricts that coordination. [2:22:44] Correct. So when a politician says we're simply refusing to do ice's job in Maryland, [2:22:51] that's not the whole story is that they're preventing you from even helping ice do their [2:22:55] own job just by giving information. Correct. They're prohibiting us from working with a federal [2:23:00] law enforcement partner. And that's again, back to why I initially pursued this agreement with [2:23:06] President Obama's administration was for public safety and that now is prohibited. If you aren't [2:23:12] holding the person one second longer, what public safety benefit comes from keeping ice ignorant [2:23:17] about the release time? I'm sorry, if I'm keeping them longer? If you're, if you're not, you're not [2:23:23] holding them any second longer than you have to, right? They get out. What public safety benefit [2:23:29] comes from keeping ice ignorant about the release time? None at all. So why would Maryland do something [2:23:36] like that? Our legislature, unfortunately, I have found myself at opposite ends of much of what our [2:23:43] state is doing because it's a very pro-criminal legislature, not supportive of law enforcement, [2:23:49] but pro-criminal on many fronts. But this, this one was their attention this past, past two sessions, [2:23:55] but it passed this session. What's safer for everybody involved? Ice taking custody in your controlled [2:24:00] detention center or ice learning after release that the person is now in the community? Certainly, [2:24:07] and Tom Homan, the border czar, has been very clear on this. Much safer to turn over that individual [2:24:13] after they are in custody in a cell, been searched, one-on-one, open the cell door, bring ice in, [2:24:19] and put them into custody of ice. That transfer is so much safer than the, what we're seeing around the [2:24:25] country where ice has to do their job in the streets, in the communities. The preference is- Sheriff, [2:24:30] it was alleged earlier that we're diverting important law enforcement resources [2:24:37] in your department to go do ice's job under the 287g program. I want to clear up that caricature. [2:24:42] Were your deputies driving around neighborhoods asking people for immigration papers or were they [2:24:48] doing their jobs that they've always done? Not at all. Corrections deputies were strictly for [2:24:53] corrections based our 287g program. So this all took place after the arrest by law enforcement deputies. [2:25:00] Law enforcement deputies were not trained, had no part of 287 in the state of Maryland. There is a [2:25:05] component to 287 that allows law enforcement, but Maryland prohibited that long ago. Mr. Coleman, [2:25:12] one argument that we've heard of this entire debate is that these catastrophic cases only represent a small [2:25:18] percentage of overall incidents. Your little girl suffered a traumatic brain injury because at the [2:25:25] hands of an illegal immigrant. What would you say to somebody who describes your daughter as being part of a [2:25:29] statistically small population? [2:25:31] I would say it's 100% of our life now. She is the 1%. She's the, as Mark Wayne, Mark Wayne Mullen said [2:25:40] yesterday, you know, this is 0.0001% is too much. She is part of that statistic. And as you know, Ms. Fox asked, [2:25:49] you know, what number do we need? Like, what's the magic number? How many more do you guys need? Because the Angel [2:25:54] families, we have Republicans and we also have Democrats. The, this side of the audience sits here and [2:26:00] helps the Angel families, whether they're Republican or Democrat, but the Democrats only want to help [2:26:04] out the Democrats. That's it. I think the principle that I want to take away from this hearing is when [2:26:09] government has the safer option, they should take the safer option. [2:26:13] The gentleman's, gentleman's time is expiring. [2:26:15] Agreed. [2:26:15] Mr. Cohen. [2:26:16] Thank you, Mr. McClintock. Uh, Mr. Beer, in Minnesota, Mr. Pretty and Ms. Good were shot, killed by ICE agents [2:26:33] on camera. What was the punishment that ICE rendered, meted out to the folks who did that, particularly [2:26:43] Mr. Pretty, who was shot maybe seven or eight times in the back? [2:26:48] As far as I know, there haven't been any penalties, monetary or criminal, related to those incidents. [2:26:58] It took them a while even to get them off the streets. They just transferred them to a different [2:27:03] location after the incidents happened. [2:27:05] And did they work with local government, local police to give them the opportunity to prosecute? [2:27:11] No, they covered up the crime scene. They arrested some of the witnesses and took them away. [2:27:18] They destroyed and concealed evidence. And only months later, seven months later, they eventually [2:27:25] turned over some of the evidence to local prosecutors. [2:27:31] Sheriff, I'd like to ask you a question. You're familiar with the shootings and murders, [2:27:37] which they were in Minnesota. Am I correct? [2:27:39] I'm familiar with the incidents, yes. [2:27:42] Do you believe that ICE should have conducted some type of criminal discipline of those officers who [2:27:50] shot, killed those people, or if they had reason not to, they should have explained it to the public? [2:27:56] I think any time there's a law enforcement use of force that results, any law enforcement use of force, [2:28:01] but any law enforcement use of force that results in death or serious injury, [2:28:05] there should be an investigation to see if the officers' actions were appropriate. [2:28:10] And in the investigation, the results should be public, should it not? [2:28:12] Absolutely. [2:28:15] There's so many things with ICE that are wrong. I mean, we need a lot of improvement there, [2:28:21] and we should have had better people in charge of it. [2:28:24] Kristi Noem was in charge of it. One good thing this committee did is when she came before us, [2:28:29] she couldn't explain the $250 million advertising campaign that she had promoted, [2:28:37] which had her riding on a horse. And she looked good on the horse. [2:28:40] She looked good in the elevator when she was a member, and I'd see her here. [2:28:43] I'm sure she looks good down in Latin America, where she's some type of special envoy, [2:28:47] working to solve the cartel problem, just as much as she solved the ICE problem. [2:28:52] But she had no business running ICE because she had no experience running ICE. [2:28:56] What she had experience doing was zooming President Trump and looking pretty. And she still does that. [2:29:02] That shouldn't be the criteria of somebody running ICE. And if we had better people running ICE, [2:29:07] what happened in the situations that we had discussed here with the Angel families may not [2:29:12] have occurred. We need experts, law enforcement experts, top-notch people who know what they're doing [2:29:20] and can zero in on the issue of the worst of the worst and get them off the streets and out of the country. [2:29:25] But instead, we hire people who are zooming President Trump and looking good, riding a horse [2:29:31] in front of Mount Rushmore. That $250 million contract that she and Mr. Leandowski got for her [2:29:37] friend, who was incorporated just a couple of weeks earlier in Virginia and never done any work [2:29:42] whatsoever, this committee was partly responsible for that being exposed because of questions asked of [2:29:48] Ms. Noem and her being fired because of those questions. But this committee has not pursued anything to [2:29:54] do with that. We haven't had a hearing on what happened with that $250 million that's promotion [2:30:00] of ICE and Homeland Security was mostly about promoting Ms. Noem. But we haven't done a thing [2:30:05] about it. And that's something this committee should do. We should have followed up. But we don't follow [2:30:09] up. We come back with more of the same. Sanctuary cities. Sanctuary cities are not the problem. [2:30:16] Memphis is not a sanctuary city. But just this weekend, we had the largest ICE raid in Memphis history. [2:30:22] They picked up 100 people out of a bar and took them and put them on buses at 2 o'clock in the [2:30:27] morning. They claim they went to this bar, which is in a Hispanic neighborhood, because they had [2:30:31] gambling going on. I feel like I was watching what was the movie? Casablanca. Gambling. I can't believe [2:30:39] it's going on here. This administration has done more for gambling than any administration ever. They [2:30:46] try to get crypto legalized and registered. Crypto's a gamble. It's a ripoff. It was Trump used to call it [2:30:53] a scumbag activity until he found out he could, when the president could take advantage of it and [2:31:00] make the rules and become the largest scumbag of all of the cryptos. So he's made it his job to have [2:31:06] crypto be around. And Calci, they want Calci to be around. Gambling, gambling, gambling. They took [2:31:12] people out of the community. The Memphis mayor objected. I object. We don't need the National Guard in [2:31:17] Memphis. We don't need ICE in Memphis. We need rational law enforcement and rational immigration. [2:31:23] Gentlemen. We don't have it. I yield back my time, but before I yield back my time. The gentleman doesn't [2:31:27] have any time to yield back. The chairman is one of my favorite members of Congress, [2:31:30] and I admire him greatly, and I appreciate his work. That is mutual, Mr. Cohen. I know that. Mr. [2:31:35] Grothman. Thank you. First of all, there's some, I think, some confusion out there. [2:31:41] Uh, this president was left with a very, very difficult situation. Nobody knows exactly how [2:31:50] many people were allowed in this country illegally, but it's probably around, uh, 8 million. And when [2:31:57] you include people left in this country before, uh, President Biden took, took office, you might [2:32:05] be up around 23 or 24 million. Okay. Now, if we're going to have an immigration law, we can't just [2:32:12] enforce the immigration law on people who are breaking crimes. Anybody who thinks that's the [2:32:17] way the law works. It's preposterous, right? We enforce our immigration law in part to keep our [2:32:24] housing costs down. We enforce our immigration law in part to keep our wages up. We enforce it to [2:32:30] prevent, uh, America from changing and, uh, not being the freedom loving republic we're supposed to be [2:32:39] with regard to the number of people illegally here. And you can correct me if I'm wrong, jump in. [2:32:45] I don't think anybody has any idea how many crimes are being committed by illegal immigrants, right? [2:32:52] Sheriff Gaylor, if I were to ask you how many illegal immigrants do you have in your jail, [2:32:57] I don't know if you have a jail, but if you have a jail, you probably couldn't answer the question [2:33:01] because that's not a question that, that is put down there. I can tell you before sitting down here, [2:33:07] I talked to one of my local sheriffs and they felt disproportionately the people involved in [2:33:13] prostitution in their area were people from China or Mexico. Okay, illegally here. Now, some people [2:33:20] don't care about prostitution, but in any event, that's part of the deal. Disproportionately driving [2:33:27] crimes, drunk driving, maybe not enforced as much in other countries. Disproportionately is something [2:33:32] that happens here. Sex with a minor, again, maybe disproportionately, but nobody has those numbers. [2:33:39] And nobody, I have never been under the impression that when President Biden let, let's say, eight [2:33:44] million people in this country, the only people we would try to deport are people who are committing [2:33:49] crimes. That's not like having any immigration law at all, right? Obviously. Okay. Um, last to comment on [2:33:59] that, any one of you, Sheriff Galey. I will just say, when I first looked at bringing this program, [2:34:04] when I was first elected, the question I got all the time from the public was how many, how big is [2:34:08] the problem? And the answer was, we had no idea because no one was screening those individuals who [2:34:12] were arrested at the jail. Then we started screening. We found out that over the course of our eight years [2:34:17] in the, in the, uh, program, it was thousands, uh, over a thousand, 300 of them were, detainers were [2:34:24] filed as being a threat to public safety or national security. Any crimes you found out [2:34:29] disproportionately committed by people who come here illegally? It was a wide range, but of course, [2:34:34] and again, again, in my community, we had those two horrific homicides, um, you know, and they happen [2:34:40] across the country. And I will point out one more time, immigration laws don't mean we only kick out [2:34:46] people who are committing a crime. That would be no immigration law at all. And anybody who says that [2:34:53] is just, just in a dreamland. There are a couple of Republicans who feel that way and they're, [2:34:59] I can't imagine what goes on in their mind. And when Democrats say we should let anybody in this [2:35:05] country who crosses the border, if they're not committing a crime, they are in essence saying [2:35:09] we should be like Joe Biden and let seven or eight million people here, every new presidential term, [2:35:16] which would obviously permanently change America for the worst as should be obvious. [2:35:23] Yes. Uh, now, uh, who should we grab here? They give me choices. Uh, Mr. Coleman, um, thank you for [2:35:31] your testimony, for being here. Um, have you received given all the problems they've had? Uh, uh, [2:35:39] you know, um, we've had this, the CDLs, they operate large commercial vehicles. Have you had any [2:35:45] correspondence from Governor Newsom with regard to this? No, I haven't had any response from him, his, [2:35:50] him or his team. Okay. There are several members of the California delegation that sit on the [2:35:55] Judiciary Committee. Given what happened to your daughter and your experience with California [2:35:59] sanctuary policies, would you say directly to these members, what would you say directly to these [2:36:04] members about the consequences of the policies and the responsibility their state has to protect [2:36:09] America? When did they think that this was going to stop? Or, I mean, this makes no sense at all, [2:36:14] how they thought this was a good idea. To me, and you, anyone, you can correct me if I'm wrong, [2:36:21] it appears to be the goal of the Democrat Party is to let as many people from other countries here, [2:36:28] regardless of the consequences. They want to change America. And if you want to have America look more [2:36:35] like other countries around the globe, few of which we would want to live in, uh, that, that's the way you [2:36:41] do it. Just anybody can come here and then maybe say, well, the only ones will kick out will be a [2:36:46] handful. The gentleman's time has expired. Ms. Lee. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Since day one, [2:36:54] Trump has made Americans feel less safe as he carries out his extreme and expensive immigration [2:37:00] crackdown. Militarized cities, the erosion of constitutional rights, and terrorized Americans. [2:37:06] All of this has been a part of the plan. And it's not enough, uh, for Trump and Republicans who carry [2:37:12] out their insidious agenda at the federal level. The cities and the states who have pushed back and [2:37:17] refuse to do Trump's bidding with so-called sanctuary policies have faced funding cuts and harassment by [2:37:23] the federal government. Those places have been demonized because they would rather focus their [2:37:29] resources on local issues. What the federal government is doing in the name of community safety is [2:37:35] so wrong that it has to be on purpose. Trump is implementing policies that we know will fail. [2:37:41] They, they could not work. Republicans came claim to care about law enforcement, but they're not making [2:37:48] their jobs any easier by pushing them to work with ICE. Community safety is built on trust, but trust can't [2:37:55] be built when these officers are busy doing the dirty work for the least reputable agency in the federal [2:38:01] government right now. It doesn't make us safer when ICE rounds people up in mass raids and violently [2:38:07] intimidates protesters or, or shoots and kills innocent people who they say are in their way. Trump and [2:38:14] Republicans do this on purpose because they rely on the ability to fearmonker and scapegoat in order to subjugate [2:38:21] people. They rely on the divisions between community safety, police officers, and communities themselves. [2:38:28] When people fear their federal government or fear their president, they're easier to control. This [2:38:34] anti-sanctuary city crusade goes hand in hand with Republicans' authoritarian playbook. None of the goals [2:38:39] are making America safer. Trump and Republicans just want to control. Mr. Beer, is there any evidence that [2:38:46] cities and states that work with ICE and immigration officials see lower crime rates? No, not at all. I actually [2:38:52] have a chart in my written testimony where I show the homicide rate highlighting the ones that are [2:38:58] sanctuary cities, according to this administration, versus the ones that aren't. There's no relationship [2:39:04] there at all. There, there's not. You can have a safe place and have immigration policies on one side [2:39:10] versus the other side. It really should be an issue under our constitution that is settled by the local [2:39:16] government. Thank you. And the reality is that states and cities that collaborate with ICE can face dire [2:39:21] consequences. In Brentwood, Pennsylvania, very near where I live in my district, an asylum seeker [2:39:27] reported a man trying to break into his house and then threatening him. When he went to court to testify, [2:39:33] both the victim and the accused were picked up by ICE and sent to the very same detention center. [2:39:38] In Utah, a man set his house on fire. He killed himself, his partner, and their kids. Now, his partner's [2:39:44] family said he kept, that she kept silent about the abuse she suffered because she was afraid that she'd be [2:39:49] deported. And there are so many reports of victims and witnesses going to police or to testify in court [2:39:56] and then being detained by immigration officials or not going at all and losing their lives, as we've [2:40:02] seen in one case. Mr. Beer, what kind of long-term impact does going after victims and witnesses of [2:40:06] crime have and how can those communities possibly build trust? Look, I have a whole list of these cases [2:40:12] in my written testimony as well. It is doing extraordinary damage. Before this administration, [2:40:19] noncitizens and immigrants in the United States actually did report crimes, violent crimes, against [2:40:24] them at a higher rate than the U.S.-born population, in part because they think highly of American police. [2:40:30] But now that they see them as an extension of ICE in many cases, it is undermining the trust that is [2:40:35] required to pursue these cases. And it is a problem. Yeah, our communities deserve to feel safe. And [2:40:43] we're not going to achieve that by pushing these cruel and inhumane immigration policies. What actually [2:40:48] works are proactive investments that get to the root causes of crime. That means safe schools, no matter [2:40:54] what zip code you live in, after school programs, street lights on every block, affordable housing, [2:41:00] mental health, and substance abuse treatment. Trump has claimed he's committed to public safety, [2:41:05] but his administration cut about $500 million in Department of Justice programs that helped to [2:41:11] drive down crime like community violence prevention and mobile crisis response. Meanwhile, Trump and [2:41:18] Republicans have given ICE and CBP $152 billion in funding from their one big, beautiful act and the [2:41:27] Secure America Act. You cannot claim that you care about public safety and community safety when you cut [2:41:32] programs working to prevent crime and then terrorize the witnesses and victims of crime that have [2:41:38] already happened. Let's not pretend they care about public safety when their actions say otherwise. [2:41:42] I thank you all for your time and I yield back. [2:41:43] The gentlelady yields back. Mr. Knott. [2:41:45] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think it's pretty obvious that my colleague who just spoke doesn't [2:41:51] know what she's talking about. When she refers to public safety, the stats are quite clear. Over the last 18 [2:41:56] months, murders are down 25 percent. Carjacking is down 50 percent. Robbery is down 20 percent. Residential [2:42:04] burglary down almost 20 percent. Sex crimes are down 25 percent. Crimes against children are down roughly 25 [2:42:12] percent. And all of this comes as the president has enacted mass deportations. He has fought the [2:42:17] resistance of sanctuary cities. And the results are as plain as day. When you enforce immigration laws, [2:42:23] communities get safer. Mr. Coleman and Ms. Fox, I again am astounded that here we are at another [2:42:30] hearing and the Democrats look at you and they apologize with, I would say, unbelievably superficial [2:42:37] sincerity. And then they defend the very policies that has led to your lives being upended. And the [2:42:44] question that we as a government should ask is, should we allow another Delilah to happen? Should we allow [2:42:53] another American citizen to be forever handicapped because of the act of an illegal immigrant? Or [2:42:59] should we advocate to enforce our laws, protect this country and get rid of every person in the country [2:43:05] illegally? I'm for the latter. And I'm sorry that government policy that harms this country has harmed [2:43:13] you. Now, Sheriff, I want to talk to you about the effects of illegal immigration and crime. There's been [2:43:20] a lot of discussion about this. But most of the studies that are referenced when they cite illegal [2:43:26] immigrants commit fewer crimes, they do it in a way that is somewhat deceptive. They look at conviction [2:43:32] data and they look at arrest data. I have been in the field prosecuting hundreds of illegal immigrants. [2:43:40] And please describe how difficult it is to identify someone when they're in the country illegally. Well, [2:43:47] again, we're back to that now that we cannot communicate with ICE in order to identify those [2:43:52] people that we arrest. So unless ICE gets a booking sheet, we don't know. We're back to that point in [2:43:58] time where we don't even know how that parlays into the studies. I don't know. I can tell you what we [2:44:04] see locally. But it's common sense that if someone comes across the border illegally with an open border, [2:44:10] they do not come into contact with Border Patrol. They don't come into contact with ICE. [2:44:14] How are you going to identify them if you get a picture of them committing a crime? [2:44:19] You're not. And false IDs to accompany everything you mentioned. [2:44:22] Absolutely. [2:44:22] You're not. You're going to go through the system on a fictitious name, perhaps. But again, I'm talking [2:44:28] about locally. You know, you can do these nationwide studies. But what we've seen locally in my community [2:44:33] is happening everywhere. And that's what effect you've been in law enforcement for 40 years. What effect [2:44:38] has mass migration and open border had on the types of crimes that are being committed? [2:44:43] Well, certainly we saw at the height of the open border, the drugs flowing across the [2:44:48] fentanyl. I heard some conversation from this side of the room about the fentanyl being down. It's [2:44:52] because we have a more secure border than we did under the past administration. [2:44:55] It's worth noting, I think that most Americans have unfortunately become [2:44:58] desensitized to the number of deaths from drugs. In 1970, 80, and all the way through the 1990s, [2:45:05] we were averaging less than 5000 deaths per year. In 1990, we had fewer than 10 million illegal aliens [2:45:11] in the country. Since the year 2000, we have averaged over 100,000 deaths. Since the year 2000, [2:45:18] we have almost 1.7 million dead Americans. You cannot separate open borders and mass migration [2:45:26] with the plight on American citizens. And that doesn't even account for those who are suffering from [2:45:32] addiction, those who have suffered from violence, those who have suffered from hollowed out communities. [2:45:37] And your state makes it illegal for you to work with ICE to get rid of illegal immigrants. [2:45:42] 100 percent. [2:45:43] It's unbelievable. Mr. Beer, I want to talk to you [2:45:46] just briefly. In regards to your stance, you believe that people who are here illegally should [2:45:52] be able to stay here until they're convicted. Is that basically it? [2:45:55] There should be a legal way to vet them and and apply for legal immigration, whatever the legal [2:46:02] immigration. I'm not trying to play gosh, I understand. But yeah, we should have a legal system [2:46:06] for people to apply. And in regards to securing a conviction, do you condemn the the sanctuary [2:46:13] prosecutors that have come before this committee and said, I'm going to take into account immigration [2:46:18] status before I bring charges? I don't think we should give people a lesser sentence or no sentence [2:46:25] because of their immigration status. It's irrelevant. And in regards to, I would say, [2:46:30] concerns around the country, do you believe that culture should be considered when admitting people [2:46:34] into the United States? What do you mean by culture? Well, should we welcome people into the country who [2:46:40] advocate for child marriage, for instance? We shouldn't allow people who are pedophiles. [2:46:46] What about who believe that you should be killed for your faith? We shouldn't allow people to [2:46:52] immigrate who want to kill people. What about people who believe that the United States [2:46:57] deserved 9-11? Should we allow people in the country that believe that? [2:47:00] The gentleman's time is expired. [2:47:01] If people support terrorism, we shouldn't allow them. [2:47:03] Okay, thank you. Ms. Jayapal for unanimous consent request. [2:47:08] No, go ahead. Okay. Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent to enter into the record [2:47:22] the U.S. Department of Homeland Security Office of the Inspector General report from August 20th, [2:47:27] 2026, entitled ICE Homeland Security Investigations Hindered Encountering Fentanyl [2:47:33] the United States. Without objection. Ask unanimous consent to enter into the record, [2:47:39] an article titled, How ICE is arresting soaring numbers of immigrants with no criminal record. [2:47:44] Without objection. Ask unanimous consent to enter into the record, an article titled, [2:47:49] Wife of active duty army sergeant deported amid Trump's immigration campaign. Without objection. [2:47:56] Ask unanimous consent to enter into the record, a Texas Tribune article entitled, [2:48:00] Federal Government Allows Return of U.S. Citizen Deported After Traffic Stop in Central Texas. [2:48:05] Without objection. Ask unanimous consent to enter into the record, an article titled, [2:48:09] Beloved Haitian Pastor Detained by ICE in Springfield. Without objection. Ask unanimous consent [2:48:14] to enter into the record, an article titled, Father of Five-Year-Old Detained by ICE Plans Voluntary [2:48:19] Deportation. Without objection. Ask unanimous consent to enter into the record, [2:48:24] Father of sailor aboard the beleaguered USS Abraham Lincoln, detained by immigration authorities. [2:48:29] Without objection. Ask unanimous consent to enter into the record, an article titled, [2:48:33] ICE arrest mom and daughter at hospital after vehicle smashes into their car. Without objection. [2:48:40] Ask unanimous consent to enter into the record, an article titled, Judge to Baby, file an asylum [2:48:46] application. Without objection. Ask unanimous consent to enter into the record, an article titled, [2:48:51] AP exclusive, Trump's immigration crackdown has detained more than 50 military spouses and parents. [2:48:57] Without objection. Ask unanimous consent to enter into the record, an article titled, [2:49:01] College student steps into traffic is killed after losing immigration status. Without objection. [2:49:07] Ask unanimous consent to enter into the record, a Cato blog institute titled, ICE has diverted over 25,000 [2:49:15] officers from their jobs. Without objection. And ask unanimous consent to enter into the record, [2:49:20] because the question of Medicaid funding and who's on Medicaid came up. An article titled, Amazon workers [2:49:26] on food stamps nearly tripled while company spends 200 billion on AI. So let's think about why those folks [2:49:33] are on Medicaid. Mr. Gill. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for for holding this hearing. Mr. Coleman, thanks for [2:49:43] coming here and taking the time for sharing Delilah's story. It really is heartbreaking. I have a similar story [2:49:50] of a constituent, uh, in my district, um, eight year old Baron Ritchie, um, who was killed by an illegal [2:49:56] alien as well. Um, Mr. Coleman, can you share with me who was driving the truck that struck Delilah? [2:50:04] Oh, it was an illegal immigrant. Yep. Do you remember his name? Um, Partap Singh. Partap Singh. [2:50:12] And, and he was an illegal alien. Was, was he a legal driver in the United States? According to California, [2:50:17] yes. According to California. So he was an illegal alien, but he was legally driving on our roads, [2:50:23] according to California. Correct. Um, do you think that individuals who are willing to break our [2:50:28] immigration laws are generally also willing to break traffic laws as well? And much more. And, [2:50:34] and much more. Do you think that illegal aliens should have CDL licenses? I do not. I don't either. [2:50:41] Do you think that they should be a little bit more heavily scrutinized than, than the rest of the [2:50:46] American population? One hundred percent. Yes. Have you received a call of condolence from [2:50:54] California Democrats after the accident? I haven't received anything from the Democrats. [2:51:00] Has Governor Newsom called you to offer his condolences? No. Why do you think it took California [2:51:07] two years following the wreck to revoke 17,000 CDL licenses issued to illegal aliens? Probably because [2:51:15] the Department of Transportation health funding. So it sounds like they're motivated more by money than [2:51:22] by anything else. With everything is behind money. Yes. Yeah. With everything. Um, do you think it's [2:51:28] worthwhile for the federal government to defund states that don't require or enforce English [2:51:32] language proficiency standards for driver's licenses? I think all secretaries should get [2:51:37] together and withhold funding if they violate any federal law. I, I absolutely agree. Um, thank you [2:51:44] again for being here. Thank you, Mr. I appreciate your testimony. Um, Sheriff, I've got a couple [2:51:49] questions for you. Does Maryland, do Maryland sanctuary city laws, uh, make the states safer [2:51:55] in your opinion? They do not. No. You've previously described Maryland sanctuary city laws as pro criminal. [2:52:02] Could you elaborate on that? Just, uh, many things that our legislature has done over the past [2:52:08] eight years or so, unfortunately rang into that bell. But when you pass legislation in a world post 9 11, [2:52:14] on 9 11, we learned that we need to communicate with our federal partners, all federal partners to keep our [2:52:19] community safe. And yet we, uh, in our state, see fit to pass legislation to say we can't [2:52:24] communicate with this law enforcement or that law enforcement. It's stupidity at its best. [2:52:29] Is it burdensome to, uh, to, uh, to honor an ICE detainer? Not at all. Not at all. Um, [2:52:35] sir, the illegal aliens who murdered Lake and Riley and Sheridan Gorman had been arrested for nonviolent [2:52:40] crimes before their killings. Do you think that it's best to remove petty criminals like them before they [2:52:47] can commit more serious crimes? That is 100% what I believe. I agree. Um, and with that, Mr. Chairman, [2:52:54] I'll yield back the remainder of my time, uh, to you or, uh, or yield it back. Oh, thank you. I'll, [2:53:00] I'll take that, uh, time. Thank you. Um, you know, the Democrats criticize ICE for not picking up all the [2:53:06] criminals when they're notified. But ironically, the same Democrats repeatedly voted to shut down the [2:53:13] Department of Homeland Security in the longest shutdown in American history in order to keep [2:53:19] any money going to ICE to enforce those detainers. They complain when they can't pick up every detainee, [2:53:25] and then they complain when they do. Uh, they complain the Trump administration's releasing [2:53:30] illegal aliens, usually due to activist judges, and then they complain that they're deporting too many. [2:53:37] They complain we haven't passed the Stop Sanctuary Jurisdictions Act yet, though every one of them [2:53:43] voted against it in committee. It's rather confusing. The, the Democrats, who told us for years, [2:53:49] no one's above the law when they were trying to jail their opponent, are now telling us that anyone who [2:53:55] illegally enters this country is above the law. And then any of those who go on to commit other crimes [2:54:02] is also above the law. That's the whole point of their sanctuary laws. You know, Sheriff Gaylor, [2:54:07] what does that do to the rule of law that you're charged to uphold? Diminishes, once again, [2:54:14] diminishes our communities. I believe it does the opposite of the name of the bill, Community Trust [2:54:18] Act. It diminishes the community's ability to trust their government to keep them safe. [2:54:22] Um, Sheriff Gaylor, you heard the Democrats and their witnesses tell us that illegal aliens don't [2:54:28] contribute significantly to the crime problem. What are your professional observations based on a [2:54:34] lifetime career in law enforcement? Well, certainly, again, it goes back to looking at it locally. [2:54:39] Um, they're, they're not the majority of the people who could make crime in our community. However, [2:54:44] you know, we do everything to address all crime and to ignore something because it's a smaller [2:54:49] percentage is just encouraging it to grow. Would you call them a significant factor in [2:54:53] the crime you deal with daily? It's certainly a factor. I don't know that it's significant, [2:54:58] but it's, it's a number significant enough that we implemented this program in order to keep [2:55:02] our community safe, to keep people from being repeat offenders. Ms. Scanlon tells us that [2:55:06] sanctuary laws improve public safety. Is that your opinion? It is not my opinion. I, uh, see 13 [2:55:13] individuals in law enforcement uniforms who are representing at least eight county jurisdictions in [2:55:18] the audience. Do any of our law enforcement, uh, officials, uh, agree with that statement? That, [2:55:26] agree with the statement that sanctuary laws improve public safety? Stand if you believe that. Stand if you [2:55:34] believe that. Yes. Let the, uh, record show not a single law enforcement official here today, uh, [2:55:40] agreed with that statement. Uh, Sheriff, you mentioned that Maryland sanctuary law forbids [2:55:45] officials from even inquiring about the immigration status of those they encounter. I know California [2:55:51] has a similar law. And then reporting no illegal immigrants in their custody, the Democrats then tell [2:55:58] us that illegal immigrants don't commit many crimes. Um, in fact, Ms. Fox was told that, uh, uh, for six [2:56:04] months. And then we have dishonest statisticians deliberately use these tainted numbers to weave [2:56:10] a false narrative. How do these laws affect crime reporting in the 11 states that have such laws? [2:56:17] Well, again, I think it, it precludes data from making it to the report on, you know, who, [2:56:22] who is in the country illegally and committing the crimes. And these statisticians know that, [2:56:27] but they're deliberately spinning a narrative that is simply dishonest. I'm not a statistician, [2:56:33] but I can tell you, I've seen data spun as you all have a whole bunch of different ways. I know [2:56:38] what I've seen in 40 years as my fellow sheriffs behind me, what we have seen over decades combined [2:56:45] of law enforcement experience. And is it completely at odds with what we've heard from the Democrat [2:56:49] witness? Yes. Yeah. I'll note that Mr. Beer, I think, has single-handedly destroyed the reputation [2:56:53] of the Cato Institute. I no longer take their opinion seriously on any subject, uh, and I'm not the only one. [2:56:59] Uh, Sheriff, you testified that it's, uh, much safer to transfer illegal aliens when they're [2:57:05] already in custody than to release them and require an entire squad of officers to track them down. [2:57:10] Uh, correct? Correct. Yes. And, and yet the Democrats decry the deaths that occur [2:57:17] of targets, of bystanders, and of activists who are attempting to interfere with these arrests. [2:57:25] It seems to me you can't defend the practice without taking responsibility for the results. [2:57:29] I, I, I do think that's exactly the, the thought process that goes through some people's minds. [2:57:35] They, they, they are creating the result. And we told Maryland's legislature this when [2:57:38] we testified against these bills, that they were creating the problem that they wanted to [2:57:43] supposedly prevent. Sheriff Gaylor, uh, tell us about 287G agreements. Would you like to [2:57:48] enter into such agreements with the federal government? And what's stopping you? [2:57:51] What's stopping us now is the Community Trust Act and, uh, the Maryland legislature banning [2:57:56] such, uh, memorandums of agreement with ICE. But, but you would like to enter into such agreements? [2:58:01] I would like to be back in tomorrow, as would, uh, those other Maryland jurisdictions that [2:58:06] had previous 287G agreements. Um, well, um, the woman who destroyed, uh, Ms. Fox, your daughter's life. [2:58:16] Um, do I understand correctly? She was previously cited, cited for, uh, reckless driving and driving without a [2:58:22] license. So, so she was charged with that as a result of, of your daughter's injury, or was there [2:58:31] any prior contact with law enforcement? So, uh, uh, yeah, Ms. Fox, uh, uh, can you use your microphone? [2:58:42] She was charged with, uh, five different charges and, um, all but one was dropped. Reckless driving [2:58:49] resulting in serious bodily injury. Um, and, and, and she, she was ordered to compensate for the [2:58:57] motorcycle that she destroyed, but not the life of your daughter? Correct. Would it be of help if we [2:59:05] had a law in place that, uh, gave the victims of, uh, uh, of these sanctuary laws the ability to sue [2:59:12] the jurisdictions that released them and caused these problems? Absolutely. Uh, Ms. Fox, I think you [2:59:19] made an important point on the importance of law enforcement cooperation with ICE and removing illegal [2:59:25] aliens when they're first encountered breaking our laws and, and not after they've been repeatedly [2:59:30] released. Um, if the assailant of your daughter, um, had been stopped for any violation under a 287G [2:59:42] agreement, uh, Sheriff, would that agreement not have then allowed you to turn that individual over [2:59:46] to ICE immediately? Correct. If she'd been arrested for a violation of even motor vehicle law and brought [2:59:51] to the jail, that would have triggered. But these sanctuary laws forbid that, so they go on. Correct. [2:59:55] And that's the point Ms. Fox was making. Well, thank you very much for, for your testimony, all of you. [3:00:01] Uh, that concludes today's hearing. Um, without objection, all members will have five legislative [3:00:07] days to submit additional written questions for the witness and, uh, additional materials for the record. [3:00:13] And, uh, without objection, the hearing is adjourned. Thank you.