Michigan Senate candidates El-Sayed and Rogers take questions ahead of midterm elections

[0:01] good afternoon ladies and gentlemen good afternoon my name is steve gregorian i'm the president ceo [0:07] of the detroit economic club welcome to today's very special meeting 93 years of incredible [0:14] speakers and networking and that tradition continues today i do want to especially welcome [0:19] our dec members and if you're not a dec member yet give me two seconds to convince you your next [0:26] prospect client job maybe best friend is right in this room if you want to build your network [0:33] and learn from thought leaders on our stage we invite you to invest in yourself and join today [0:39] as we get started i would ask you just to please take a moment and silence your cell phone so we [0:43] don't disturb today's program and you know we've got a tradition of always starting with a pledge [0:49] of allegiance so please stand and join me as we honor our country the flag is to my right i pledge [0:56] allegiance to the flag you may be seated normally if you've been with us you know we have an [1:13] invocation but i checked with our clergy and they said you are all perfect and need no blessings today [1:20] so congratulations all right a couple of thank yous i want to say thank you to wjr who's doing [1:25] their focus show live you'll see them during lunch thank you to wdiv local 4 lawrence technological [1:33] university and detroit pbs for live streaming today's meeting and a special thank you to [1:39] my fellow members of the michigan debate commission who are here with us today this program is a [1:45] result of those efforts and we will continue to do more i do want to take a minute to recognize our [1:52] sponsors and partners make no mistake they are the reason that we can bring you programs like today so [1:58] thank you if you're part of the corporate sponsors if you'd like to become one see me at lunch happy to [2:03] talk to you about the benefits and the other thing i was going to mention is our fall season continues [2:09] to be red hot next up in november we will host delta airlines ceo ed bastion right here at the masonic [2:16] and we want to welcome ed with a really large crowd because delta is so important to our region so [2:22] please get your tickets plenty more to come get your tickets before they sell out all right you know we [2:28] always say hello to our students they're here today courtesy of our generous corporate sponsors they [2:34] just finished a private reception with both of our candidates which is really cool i would ask you to hold [2:39] your applause while i tell you what schools are here today we've got catholic central high school [2:45] thanks to mbc loans frontier international academy thanks to detroit zoological society loyal high [2:52] school thanks to accenture university of michigan dearborn thanks to albert khan associates and the [2:59] best-looking group of all the agbu alex and marie manugian school the armenian students are with us today [3:06] as well so how about a round of applause to thank the students and their sponsors all right some dec [3:17] election history i think it's really important i want to share today is the dec 16th senate election [3:23] focused programs in fact we've hosted michigan's u.s senatorial candidates in 10 of the last 11 [3:31] elections and this is what the dec does we bring you voices of people who want to lead our state and just a [3:38] few weeks ago you might remember we had both gubernatorial candidates on our stage for today [3:43] though i do want to thank both candidates abdul al sayad and mike rogers for choosing the dec and here's [3:50] why you see many organizations fought for this opportunity to host the candidates and they recognize [3:59] the importance of all of you to the futures future of our state so i am going to ask you for a favor [4:05] please help the dec maintain high standards of decorum by offering the candidates a respectful [4:13] audience and by doing so future candidates will choose the dec once again and the last thing i do [4:20] want you to know since we are the detroit economic club the topics you'll hear today will focus on matters [4:27] important to the business community michigan's economy and business issues and policies other issues yes [4:35] they're important but we will not include those today all right the most important person today [4:41] is our timekeeper you know on time every time that's the dec please welcome the best timekeeper [4:48] and the best in the land long time dec member jr hasano and now it's my pleasure to turn this over [5:01] to our moderator you know him because you're up at 4 30 a.m doing your emails and watching him anchor [5:07] wdiv local 4 morning show and he is the host of flashpoint on sunday mornings please welcome the decs [5:13] and my good friend jason colthorpe thank you sir uh thank you and hi to everybody uh speaking of the [5:23] governor's uh forum a couple weeks ago just a few more people than that one i will say and i was informed [5:30] a little while ago a little bit more media 28 media outlets including from seven countries that are here [5:38] today so obviously this is this is a big one i know we have at least one collegiate outlet the oakland [5:44] post is in the house they made themselves so thanks to all the media that's here today i think this [5:50] one's going to be unique today and i think we're in a good spot because we all know this race we've seen [5:56] how nasty it's been both on tv in the first debate they have another debate tomorrow and uh while i'm sure [6:03] my colleagues at xyz are excited about that i think we get an opportunity today to put all of that aside [6:10] and focus on some serious issues and talk to them one-on-one and get their answers straightforward about [6:17] policy hopefully without those attacks on one another uh so you guys ready to get rolling here [6:25] there was uh there was an invocation uh that steve didn't know about i think somebody said a prayer for [6:30] no blood drawn uh and hopefully that comes through they're not going to be out here at the same time [6:35] one on one and then another one uh so one at a time and the first one that i'd like to introduce [6:40] today give me a nice warm welcome your republican nominee for u.s senate here in michigan mike rogers [6:47] mike how you doing good to see you good to see you you can take this one right here [7:03] so the candidates are going to get the same eight questions uh and as we go each question you'll get two [7:09] and a half minutes for your answer if you run to that two and a half minutes you will hear this [7:15] sounds like you missed yeah i didn't want to make a michigan state football joke there but i think we [7:25] missed the kick on that one i'm a michigan stater it's okay we can we can we can hammer our own uh and [7:31] then uh you get a two minute closing statement uh is there's a second chime right what's the second [7:38] chime for two minutes two minutes two and a half minutes for the answer two and a half minute and [7:44] two minutes in oh yeah that's it i just did this a couple weeks ago so you get one chime at two minutes [7:52] two chimes when your time is up at two and a half minutes can you play the michigan fight song [7:58] we can we'll play it every time for every touchdown they score this weekend [8:03] what they're going to score a ton i always have to do this one daughter went to michigan i went to [8:08] michigan state i'm good on both sides all right let's get rolling uh mike first topic we're going [8:13] to start with michigan's economic competitiveness michigan needs to get more competitive and attract [8:18] new businesses and help the business it businesses already here and help them flourish what is the [8:24] single most important federal policy you'll pursue to strengthen michigan's economy and how can we measure [8:31] that success so two things and one of the reasons my wife and i got into this race uh was for exactly [8:37] that you know over the last quarter century we've lost two hundred thousand manufacturing jobs [8:42] our median wage is now ten thousand dollars less than the median average that never used to happen [8:47] because we built things here i drive a direct line to those loss in manufacturing jobs highest [8:52] utility rates in the midwest highest auto insurance rates in the nation we have the first time [8:58] homeowner now is 40 years old in our state 40 years old right we have huge challenges adding more [9:06] cost adding more expensive utility bills is not going to solve our answer i think we got to go the other [9:11] way so the things that we can do is make sure we have american energy uh so that it puts pressure on [9:17] prices we think we can do that number one two we have to keep taxes low you know there's folks that want to [9:23] increase taxes generally number one increase taxes on health care but number two which i think is a [9:30] disaster for our economy and your health care uh then you have the the problem that they want to undo [9:38] taxes on overtime or no tax on overtime no tax on tips no tax on social security those are powerful [9:44] tools to keep the economy humming i think we'll go back and make sure we do those here's the most [9:49] important thing we can do which is the only reason my wife and i got in this race other than a good [9:54] business climate and trying to turn this thing around two-thirds of our fourth graders can't read in the [9:59] fourth grade two-thirds you have a 70 chance of going to prison or being on welfare let that sink in [10:06] for a second two-thirds of our fourth graders can't read in the fourth grade if we don't fix this literacy [10:12] problem we are all doomed i'm telling you doomed we have a plan that goes in with phonics inter uh kind [10:19] of interdiction uh to get kids reading at grade level we've seen it work it's a powerful thing my wife [10:25] and i've been part of a group uh here around detroit called beyond basics that's getting kids back up to [10:31] reading level changing fundamentally changing their lives let me talk about tariffs here they're hitting [10:38] michigan harder than any other state and especially the auto industry which is going through a major [10:43] transformation as global competitors now challenge us automakers and evs and batteries software advanced [10:51] manufacturing and you just talked about this a little bit but when if ever should the united [10:56] states impose tariffs and why are you better suited than your opponent to protect michigan manufacturers [11:02] from those tariffs and ensure that u.s automakers remain competitive yeah so i've come out and said we [11:09] gotta end this canadian tariff war i don't think it's helpful to us it's certainly not helpful to our automotive [11:15] industry but there are tariffs that have helped the very fact that cars are coming back to the united [11:21] states including michigan from mexico and china are because of the tariffs that were applied to help [11:26] us i think correct about 40 years of bad trade policy so you see that the silverados come into the orient [11:32] plant that's huge it'll be a multi-billion dollar investment general motors is actually bringing about [11:38] five hundred thousand uh new cars to be built in the united states and we'll have some of that up here [11:45] in michigan those tariffs are good if it's good for michigan i'm going to be for it if it's bad for [11:50] michigan i'm going to be against it you know that that chevy excuse me the cherokee goes across that [11:55] bridge something like 16 times between us and canada before it goes on to an assembly lot or a for sale [12:02] lot or dealer lot when they oppose these tariffs i'm not i don't know if they didn't understand that or [12:07] didn't didn't weren't concerned about it if we don't fix that part we're going to be in trouble it just [12:13] really is disruptive to the automotive guys you my thing is this send somebody back that can actually [12:20] go and get a meeting and fix it right and and advocate for the things that work and be against [12:26] the things that don't so we can get them fixed sending somebody else back that all they want to [12:30] do is gouge the president's eyes out is not going to help us we don't have a lot of time to get our [12:34] very low metrics up a quick follow-up here take 30 seconds you mentioned how this was to offset the [12:40] original trade deficit but analysts at the time when the president said this said it's going to blow [12:48] tariffs and it's going to increase inflation we've now seen it rise to 3.7 does that mean trump was [12:54] wrong on his tariff plan well i just think they over when they went to canada i thought that was [12:59] not the right direction and mainly because they didn't account for how integrated we are in the [13:04] automotive business and we sell content providers here sell into canada for cars that actually come back [13:12] to be finalized in a in an american plan i just don't think they factored all of that and so having [13:18] that conversation to me is important but think of this i mean detroit diesel is adding a third shift [13:22] they haven't done that in decades we talked to small fabrication shops they haven't added [13:29] second shifts in decades they're adding second shifts that's good for us in the long run we just [13:34] got to get this thing right let's talk workforce and skilled trades employers are struggling to find [13:40] qualified workers in many michigan residents and college grads are leaving for better opportunities [13:46] and state labor data is now showing that the workforce shrank by 158 000 people in just this [13:52] past year what can you do from the senate to close the skills gap and connect more workers [13:57] to good paying jobs here in michigan so we've been doing the tours around the state where [14:02] these small fabricators they used to have a question when you get interviewed and it was a measuring tape [14:08] question they had to take the measuring tape question off i've talked to at least five all of them took [14:14] the measuring tape question off because they couldn't find a high school graduate that could do [14:18] fractions think of that my dad who was a shop teacher would be rolling over in his grave on this [14:25] we have a huge education problem we have to fix i think that's why we should put shop back in every [14:30] high school or at least be accessible to every high school so that you can get connected to the skilled [14:35] trades it's a job china can't steal and it's a job ai can't replace she and it's huge opportunity and [14:42] wages if you look at wages for new college graduates versus wages for the skilled trades man [14:47] skilled trades is winning that fight all day long so we have to a give kids an opportunity to be exposed [14:52] to it in shop i took shop my math scores went up i finally figured out oh that's what math is all [14:57] about it's an applied math skill and we just don't have it and if again fix reading in the fourth grade [15:04] let's get math right why this is such a big problem think of this in eighth grade here in detroit only [15:11] 15 can read at the eighth grade level and 12 can do math at the eighth grade level this is a crisis [15:21] like i have never seen we all ought to be bothered by this any any student that gets the eighth grade [15:26] and can't read uh is shame on us i think it's criminal we have to change it if we're going to [15:31] help with the with how kids get connected you got to do it in stages give shop class do apprenticeships [15:37] um by the way we talked to both unions and non-union shops about how they would use apprentice [15:42] from high school to get them connected earlier in skill sets i love this idea we ought to do it get [15:47] them reading get them doing math we can fix this and this is the good news it is fixable we've seen [15:54] it through this beyond basics technique we put that in every school people get back to phonics we're [15:59] going to have our kids reading again i also took shop but i only got in trouble because i was always [16:03] breaking the wood acting like i was karate karate kid yeah i've seen that kid in chocolate yeah that [16:08] was me i got in trouble my dad didn't like it either all right healthcare we touched on this a [16:13] little bit let's dive into this a little bit more the healthcare costs are weighing heavily on both [16:17] employers and employees what's the most important change that you can make to reduce healthcare costs [16:23] without compromising access to quality care yeah i think transparency one thing a woman was telling me [16:29] the other day she went into the hospital she had a whole series of tests and on the way out the the [16:36] one of the physician assistants came in and said hey do you want another one of these tests it was a [16:40] scan and she said uh okay they're asking me it must need it they billed her for that was like 1700 she had [16:48] no idea my argument is we need transparency you need to know what they're charging when you show up i think [16:55] transparency is the number one thing we can do to start putting pressure on prices and let me just [17:00] say this about how we don't we're not going to distort the system right now uh medicare pays about [17:06] a flat rate meaning you maybe you break even sometimes you don't break even the way we subsidize [17:13] medicare in this country is private insurers will pay about 200 percent the cost you take all of that away [17:20] think of the cost we will have to add for these medical shops to stay open for doctor's offices [17:26] for hospitals for everything else this is a huge problem if we do this because people haven't [17:31] thought about the consequences so let's do something different before we break the whole thing and ask [17:36] you to stand in the back of the line take medicare away from seniors which you're going to do that they [17:41] paid for since they were 18 years old we have got to find ways to put pressure on prices you do it through [17:47] prescription drugs making sure canada doesn't get a better deal than we do you make sure that there's [17:52] transparency in hospital billing and you make sure insurance companies are open about their denial rates [17:59] you start doing those things we're going to start putting pressure on prices going back to the [18:04] transparency example another quick follow-up if that woman needs that test and she can't afford it [18:09] what do we do then well that's different if she absolutely needs it but here's the problem why did they [18:14] ask her to do the test that they later learn she really didn't need that's a cost into the system [18:20] because somebody's trying to make sure their numbers add up at the end of the month transparency [18:25] like any other business puts pressure on those uh on those unnecessary medical requirements we want [18:33] them to get everything they need we don't want some no doctor who at the insurance company who reviews it [18:39] and says i'm not paying for that we don't need any of that we got to get rid of that this is the way [18:43] you get back at those high costs artificial intelligence could boost productivity it could [18:48] disrupt jobs and entire industries at the same time president trump says it's larger than the [18:54] industrial revolution and needs no real oversight what should the federal government do to help [19:00] american businesses lead in ai while preparing workers for the changes that it'll bring well we [19:06] definitely need guard rails on ai i've seen it personally when i was chairman of the house intelligence [19:10] committee there was a test of a missile system that was told this was very early ai concepts [19:17] we want you to measure everything that hits the tip of that missile while you're flying get there fast [19:21] and get there accurate but don't use the power in the back we need those to ditch the missile if [19:26] something goes wrong and it was a test there was no ordinance on it and what happened was in flight the [19:31] thing decided all on its own go around get those use of the batteries because if my primary mission is [19:37] faster and more accurate i need that extra power it would gave you a little beat of sweat on your [19:43] forward this was back you know i left congress in 2014 you think about what happened on how fast this [19:49] stuff has advanced we must have guide rails there is a national security framework it's something i will [19:56] support when i get there i need to go through the details of the bill see if it can't be improved but [20:00] the other one and this is for the business crowd here the the antitrust provisions prevent these ai [20:06] companies from cooperating on safety i think we ought to tailor a very narrowly crafted exemption [20:14] so that you can cooperate on safety one of these companies is going to see something that they know [20:20] is not going to work if the other company doesn't see it they plow through it my argument is [20:25] let's have that narrowly crafted anti-trust exemption so you can talk to each other on safety not on [20:32] anything else in the business but on safety those are two reasons or two ways i think we can help [20:37] put guardrails on ai michigan's per capita income it's fallen to 40th in the nation and it used to be [20:45] 16th just 25 years ago at least in 1999 which raises concerns about the state's long-term economic [20:50] prosperity if michigan was just average people would have an extra 9 500 a year in per capita income [20:57] what sort of legislation can you target to help michiganders raise their income so we lost 200 [21:03] 000 manufacturing jobs since 2000 200 000 those are all middle class families those are all higher [21:09] wage jobs we just have to stop the bleeding you know we used to build a lot of things in the state [21:14] submarine components under 700 foot ships airplanes the main battle tank in warren that's all gone [21:21] now still happens in the united states just doesn't happen here anymore so one of the things that i've [21:26] already had conversations with people about you know what the navy needs now under 700 foot ships [21:32] guess what we can do right here in michigan up in the bay city area we can build under 700 foot ships [21:37] we have talent we have people guess what those wages are really good you know welders now are making [21:43] over 100 grand a year welders uh not too many years out of school you're you're clocking in at a [21:49] hundred thousand bucks that's those are real jobs i'm going to get michigan back into defense [21:53] industrial base work uh we should be doing it think of all drones even even for drones you got to bend [21:59] metal to make these things who better to do that than the great state of michigan we know that these [22:03] contracts are coming we ought to help michiganders be a part of the arsenal of democracy again [22:09] that's how our wages got up and it also spurs uh civilian use uh manufacturing always follows these guys [22:17] everywhere they go we want to be a part of that for our future that's the one way we have to get jobs [22:22] up advanced manufacturing is pretty spectacular we ought to be the leaders right here in michigan [22:29] i think we can it just takes a u.s senator who cares about it who shows up who knows how to put the right [22:34] people in the right room to get those things done so we can build ships and submarine components we can [22:39] build drone activity i'd love to get back in the airplane business we have a huge aerospace industry here [22:45] most people don't know it we even have a company here that builds for spacex nobody even knows they [22:49] exist it's not because they don't want to they're just real quiet about it uh and my argument is we [22:54] have the technology we have the people we have the know-how it just takes somebody to put the right [22:59] people in the room to get it done that's what i'm going to do that'll get our wages up if a quick [23:03] follow-up if you have to work with a democratic michigan governor big if nothing's decided but you [23:08] confident in how you could do that i don't care who it is honestly if you care about building the state [23:12] and retaining manufacturing um put me in coach i mean think about it we're going to have we have [23:17] a housing plan we're going to make sure that young young people have an opportunity to get into houses [23:23] earlier uh if you go on rogers for senate.com you can see that plan it's very exciting people in [23:28] detroit love it it's it's going to be popular we're going to do that it has has to be bipartisan [23:34] getting kids reading in the fourth grade it's going to have to be bipartisan when i was in congress [23:38] i mean only guy in the race that actually had put bipartisan legislation together to get these [23:44] things done i don't care who's the president i don't care who is the governor we're going to get [23:49] this done for the future of our state we'll dive more into housing in a hot second let me first ask [23:53] you about taxes how would you change the federal tax policy to encourage economic growth while also [23:59] addressing the national debt which is exploding what trade-off would you be willing to make to achieve [24:05] both of those goals so we just saw a figure the other day 500 billion dollars in fraud payments [24:12] now i'm a tech i've been in the cyber security business despite what you see on tv i've been in [24:16] the cyber security business for the last decade there are great mechanisms to make sure you can reduce [24:22] fraudulent payments by using a little bit of technology doesn't even have to be a lot problem is [24:27] with the federal government they're you know back 20 years uh you know still they still have fax machines [24:33] i think of that um and so what we've got to do is make sure that we get after that 500 billion [24:40] dollars of fraud i would try to eat every dollar out of that on taxes we need to make sure we have [24:46] a lower tax rate that businesses can invest and some certainty on it this whole up and down and up and [24:52] down is not good for a business owner we need a little certainty so they know how to invest i'm big [24:58] in research and development opportunities and tax relief for companies that are investing in the future [25:03] of those companies and that means the future jobs in those companies for michiganders all of that we [25:09] have to do and we need to make sure that we don't have the largest tax increase in the history of the [25:14] country which is uh i mean that's where the other team is talking about doing that green new deal if [25:20] you dislike if you like your utility bill and the folks who are talking about this green new deal [25:24] uh they've since we did a mini one uh in the uh state in 2023 this is democrat-led operation they've [25:33] raised our utility rates nine times because the mandates on our companies are not doable so they're [25:40] trying to figure out how they meet the law and guess who's paying for that we are all paying for that [25:46] we need if you want a company here give them cheaper rates uh make sure their insurance rates their [25:51] auto insurance rates aren't the highest in the country their tax rates are low we need to open [25:55] up a sign and say michigan is open for business again let's be the work belt of the midwest again [26:02] quick just quickly what about accountability on the jobs they promised the detroit news did a recent [26:07] study saying they're only delivering on nine percent of those i'm always skeptical of an medc type [26:13] investment i'll be candid with you because they never can quite promise what they can fulfill [26:19] what if we just took took a step back and say we're going to have the best utility rates in the [26:24] nation remember we're competing with ohio and indiana we're higher than ohio and indiana our state [26:31] income tax rate is almost twice as much as it is in ohio and indiana wonder why these ohio and indiana are [26:38] getting these manufacturing companies remember when we in the last eight years we lost 27 000 manufacturing [26:43] jobs the rest of the country gained 100 000 jobs in manufacturing that's what we've got to fix let's [26:50] finish with uh housing affordability and attracting talent here to the state i mentioned inflation up [26:55] to 3.7 percent now which was the biggest jump last month since may and rent is now one of the more [27:01] concerning costs for people of course that factors in to finding workers who are willing to live here [27:06] mortgage rates up to 7.25 percent which you touched on for a 30-year fixed [27:10] uh mortgage which makes the american dream out of touch for people under 40. what do you plan to [27:16] do in the senate to make those uh housing costs more affordable for michiganders and i know you [27:20] touched on this but maybe dive a little deeper yeah i mean i'd love to talk about our housing plan [27:24] think about detroit we have a hundred and twenty two thousand vacant lots in this city we we pride [27:32] ourselves in uh how many houses we tear down in the city of detroit that's a metric they use every [27:38] year my argument is to stop that let's start talking about how many houses we build in the [27:42] city of detroit how do we get them to do that uh in my plan you put all of those lots in a land bank [27:48] you allow uh builders to bid on those lots let's get it pre-approved for the city council i've [27:54] already been talking with city council members here in the city of detroit about hey would you [27:57] work with me on this if we could get it done yes so that you have a much cleaner less regulatory burden [28:04] to build that house uh and why you you give them when they build and they sell it to a family here [28:09] in detroit it's 100 tax-free whatever you make on that federally tax-free i'd like the state to join in [28:16] too why you do that is because builders can't tell you they won't build because they can't get the [28:21] valuation to get their credit lines right so that house doesn't kind of value it where they can get [28:27] the loan for it we're going to try to flip those uh the math on that uh i think this is really very [28:32] exciting so we've already got land that we think we can do it we're also going to expand it by [28:37] eliminating in detroit food deserts i've already had conversations with some commercial enterprise [28:42] folks who if we get this right we can have houses being built we have students from the high school [28:48] participating uh in the apprenticeship of building these homes and giving them a skill set [28:54] we have that they don't have to travel outside the city so many detroit seniors have to travel [28:58] outside the city to go to the grocery store we can we can do this we just got a little creative [29:03] that's how we start this thing once you get one you get two and by the way this works in flint it [29:07] works in saginaw works in grand rapids i mean any city that wanted to participate you can do this [29:13] because you're incentivizing and here's another thing we have two of the largest financial lenders [29:18] in the country guess who's going to help us participate in making sure these folks get their [29:23] uh qualified for a loan well guess what dave i think we're going to get them both one is expressed [29:29] an interest we're going to get this done so it's a one-shop deal people moving in we're building we're [29:34] going to have a new grocery store i'm pretty excited about it and here's the thing i know detroiters are [29:39] well we've had this conversation with a lot of them take two minutes for a closing statement well thank [29:43] you i listen it just happens to when i first ran though i talked about the issues that got us in the jobs the [29:49] education the fact that we're 46 in economic opportunity now in michigan we have to change [29:54] all of that i do believe something else is on the ballot here this really isn't left or right anymore [30:00] we have built uh coalitions that really are very untraditional for a republican candidate we've spent [30:05] a lot of time here in detroit flint pontiac i think if we're going to get our state right we have to have [30:12] everybody included in this forward progress can't do it without education we can't do it without the [30:18] right kind of framework to encourage building and other things get our kids uh agree are interested [30:24] in the skilled trades which i think we can all of that i think is on the ballot there are two very [30:30] different visions i had a elected democrat tell me the other day i she's very helpful to me and i said [30:38] why are you doing this and she said i'll tell you somebody knocked on my door on the weekend and handed [30:43] me a democrat socialist of america and said would you help us make detroit a democrat socialist [30:48] city uh and i'll just use your language excuse it i'll be damned if i'm going to let detroit become [30:54] a democrat socialist city it doesn't work that's what's on the ballot they're talking about big [31:01] government government control more rules more regulation another green new deal if you do that [31:07] guess what we are going to continue to ride this thing out to number 50. i have plans to get us to where [31:14] where we're the envy of the country again but it's going to take a little work a little innovation and [31:19] it's going to have to take lots of conversations with people of all stripes in this state we've done [31:24] that uh if you look at democrats for rogers it's our fastest growing uh coalition uh jewish democrats [31:31] obviously have lots and lots of concerns about the direction that would happen uh if i didn't win this [31:36] race so you start thinking about those things being really anti-business or somebody who's going to use [31:42] business to solve our problems i think that's the difference i hope i earn your vote in uh in november [31:48] thank you the republican nominee for senate mike rogers thanks mike good to see you appreciate that's my [31:58] wife oops i think i'm going this way go ahead thank you all right well as you guys know uh we let one [32:13] candidate leave and uh and once they do uh then we invite the second candidate in uh not since the [32:20] detroit mayoral race was it so important that one actually leaves uh before we invite the other one in [32:31] facts are facts um all right we're off to a good start here to all my uh media outlets from around the [32:43] world the international media outlets what do you think so far are we are we doing all right good i was [32:54] talking to somebody from al jazeera earlier i was like wow welcome aboard uh i don't know if anybody [33:00] gives me a thumbs up i really hate to have them we're good okay we don't need cross paths don't [33:06] cross the streams all right put your hands together and help me welcome the democratic nominee for [33:11] u.s senate dr abdul el sayed let's see you again how you doing yeah right here that wasn't favoritism [33:30] that's how he shakes hands all right everybody over they react to every little thing uh thank you good [33:37] to see you uh all right so let me uh run over the ground rules pretty easy uh we have eight questions [33:44] same eight that we asked your uh opponent at the two minute you get two and a half minutes to answer [33:49] each question at the two minute mark you'll hear this at the two and a half minute mark you'll hear [33:55] this i may jump in with a quick follow-up here and there and then for that you'll get 30 seconds and [34:00] you just get one more ding on that one ready to roll let's roll all right here we go we're gonna start [34:05] with michigan's economic competitiveness michigan needs to get more competitive needs to attract new [34:10] businesses and also help the businesses that are already here flourish what has what is going to be the [34:16] the single most important federal federal policy that you would pursue to strengthen michigan's [34:21] economy and how can we measure that success well first of all i just want to say thank you so much [34:27] i'm honored to be here with the detroit economic club and with you um you are consensus the best quaffed [34:34] of our our local uh latteries news that's not gonna work on me um but it did kind of anyway i'm really [34:40] honored to be here thank you so much now we talk about economic competitiveness the real question is [34:45] what is our economic model as i've been very clear about i am a capitalist but i do not believe we live [34:51] in actual capitalism capitalism is the process by which we allocate our capital based on supply and [34:57] demand capitalism according to adam smith who of course coined the term capitalism requires free entry [35:03] and exit from markets the problem right now however is that we have a few very very large corporations [35:09] who dominate a ton of our economy and those large corporations have the capacity to do a couple of [35:16] things because of their size they really can't be competed against and because of their power and the [35:22] porousness between our economy and our politics they can use that money to influence who gets elected to [35:27] public office that's called rent seeking according to economists and that problem there is the reason [35:33] why you end up having a number of very very big corporations who dominate some of the most important [35:38] markets of our lives i was just doing just an example here uh raise your hand and keep it up [35:44] if you have a phone in your pocket that is an apple phone now keep it up and raise your hand if you [35:50] have a samsung phone now keep it up if you have an apple all right now put them down if you have a [35:56] phone that's not an apple or a samsung raise your hand that's called an oligopoly all right let's try [36:03] another example raise your hand if you have a carrier that's t-mobile at&t or verizon put your hands down [36:12] if you're not at&t t-mobile or verizon raise your hand again another oligopoly so all of that is to [36:17] say that i think we need to actually start standing up to monopolies and oligopolies and start regulating [36:22] them so we can get back to a system where there is competitiveness in a market which of course is [36:26] essential to any sort of system of capitalism and in order to do that we've actually solved this problem [36:31] nearly 100 years ago during the progressive era by building the federal trade commission it just [36:37] taking all the teeth out of it and so we enable a few corporations to dominate a tremendous amount of [36:42] our markets to the detriment of would-be competitors to the detriment of both consumers [36:47] and to employers and employees let me move on to tariffs speaking of competition hitting michigan [36:54] harder than any other state and the auto industry especially which is going through a major [36:59] transformation with global competitors challenging the u.s automakers on evs on batteries on software [37:06] advanced manufacturing uh when if ever should the u.s impose tariffs and why are you better [37:12] suited than your opponent to protect the michigan manufacturers from tariffs and ensure that [37:17] the automakers here in the u.s remain competitive so let me clear my dad came to america to make cars [37:23] to design internal combustion engines and he did just that worked for gm at the tech center for years and [37:28] years we have to be the world's leader in internal combustion engines but i also believe in a future [37:34] where we continue to be the world's dominant auto supplier i believe in american auto now let's step back [37:40] the guy you just heard from said that nafta in the long run would be a good thing for michigan [37:45] if you're an auto worker it has not been a good thing for michigan we've hemorrhaged jobs so if [37:50] you think about nafta or usmca as a sort of cancer on the american economy you might like to treat that [37:56] with some chemotherapy now the thing about chemotherapy is every doctor will tell you that chemo is a [38:00] poison if you give your patient all the chemo all at once you kill your patient if you give your [38:05] patient some of the chemo at a very clear set of times you can kill the tumor and save your patient [38:11] so i'm not against tariffs per se i'm just against dumb tariffs and like all the things that donald [38:15] trump does they are chaotic they are ham-fisted and they are self-serving his version of tariffs is [38:20] about accruing power either over corporations or over trading partners that's exactly why he's doing [38:25] this and this version has been terrible for the american auto industry it has been terrible for [38:30] workers has been terrible for the rest of us who pay an average about five thousand six hundred dollars [38:34] a year for these tariffs makes no sense why because he's giving all the chemo all at once [38:38] i believe in a system of tariffs that is hooked to a industrial policy that actually makes sense so [38:45] here's my gauntlet i think we here need to continue to be the world's leader internal combustion engines [38:51] and i think we should build a 25 000 300 mile range ev over the next seven years we should subsidize so that [39:00] we can do that off the top in the next two years and then slowly pull those subsidies [39:05] and as we do that we should be tariffing the ev market so that we can use our own market to [39:13] incubate that product so that we can sell it on the global market and compete with chinese low-cost evs [39:20] why because i think we will continue to be the world's leader in internal combustion engines [39:24] i also don't want us to see the global ev market which is growing every single day but you cannot do [39:30] tariffs without hooking it to a smart policy that actually makes sense around your industrial [39:36] viewpoint and there has to be some subsidies because the whole point of a tariff is to protect [39:40] and use your market to incubate something that you'd like to grow in your domestic market so real [39:45] quickly uh those tariffs you do support what countries uh would it be it sounded like china would be a [39:50] country that would end up with those tariffs china of course but i'm actually just talking about [39:53] tariffing a product right it doesn't necessarily matter who's shipping in the product i mean right now [39:58] if you look aside from china the dominant maker of evs has been korea so i'm just saying that it [40:04] should be easier to buy one of those low-cost american evs than to buy a korean ev that is being [40:09] shipped in here because again you're trying to use our local market to incubate the sector so that you [40:15] can compete internationally and that's again how you use tariffs in industrial policy together to create [40:20] jobs and uh to compete internationally let's move to the workforce and skilled trades now uh employers [40:27] struggling to find qualified workers while many michigan residents and college grads are leaving [40:33] to find better career opportunities and the state labor data is showing the workforce shrank by 158 [40:38] 000 people in the past year alone what can you do from the senate to close the skills gap and connect [40:45] more workers to good paying jobs here in michigan yeah jason this is the thing that that scares me [40:49] quite a bit now i left for grad school and i came back to michigan i came back to michigan because [40:54] i can't stand the idea of raising my daughters away from their grandparents and i'm so honored to have [41:00] been born and raised here as a child and a son of michigan but i gotta be honest with you a lot of [41:05] the fellow graduates who graduated in 2007 with me they've gone and found other places to live so yes [41:12] in part this is a skills issue we have not invested equitably in our schools in the way that we need to we [41:17] do have a literacy crisis and then beyond that it has become far too expensive to get any sort of higher [41:23] education we have not connected the kinds of apprenticeship programs that we need into our [41:27] schools and also we have made it too expensive for folks to take out loans to even go to our [41:33] incredible state public universities and so what happens is you graduate with a whole bunch of loans [41:38] and you're asking how fast can i pay these back and so if you don't have a high paying job and you [41:43] don't have good schools to send your kids to and you don't have housing that's available in a [41:47] community with those good schools and you're worried about the kind of social goods that we offer [41:52] you're going to make a decision to leave and so we got to build not just good jobs and address [41:58] the skills gap but we also have to address the pull factors that keep people staying here [42:03] and ideally get people coming here i want to be a destination for future talent i don't just want [42:10] to be a place that barely holds on to the kids that we grow here and so yes that means great schools [42:15] yes that means building the kind of competitive hubs around small business so folks can say you know i [42:21] want to be an entrepreneur and there's going to be capital and there's going to be workforce and [42:25] there's going to be opportunities going to be things i want to do on the weekend here and it means that [42:30] we're investing in housing building housing building housing that meets the needs of growing young [42:36] families because in the end of the day when you make a decision to build a foundation you're building [42:40] around the place where you want to raise your kids that means what are you going to do for them [42:45] where are they going to live what opportunities are they going to have what kind of schools are they [42:48] going to go to and we have to think about this problem in that particular way and i think too [42:53] often we think about a skills issue but here's the problem if you don't invest on the landing [42:57] and you just invest in skills what you're doing is you're creating very very marketable young talent [43:01] that goes somewhere else well you're stepping all over my last question that's all right your opponent [43:05] did too uh let's talk health care business costs now health care costs weighing very heavily on [43:10] employers and employees what is the most important change you would make to reduce health care costs [43:16] without compromising access to quality care i think you know my answer i think i've heard this [43:20] in yeah a few times i want money out of politics money in your pocket and medicare for thank you um [43:27] look when i talk about medicare for all it's because the single biggest problem that i've tried to [43:33] bend my time and energy to solving is the fact that too many people in this country don't get the [43:36] health care they need and deserve but as i talk to the business community i have not met a single [43:41] small business owner who hasn't told me that the worst part of owning a business is trying to figure out [43:46] health care for their workers when i was in wayne county we operated a program called health choice [43:52] we operated a small business health insurance program by the way if you're a small business [43:56] owner in wayne county you should look into health choice 254 dollar premium zero copay zero deductible [44:04] zero out-of-pocket cost and we operated in the black imagine what could happen if you did not have [44:12] to worry about providing health insurance for your people zero premium zero copay zero deductible zero [44:20] network zero headache of trying to figure out what your premium is going to be next year now imagine [44:26] how many small businesses don't get founded because somebody with a great idea somewhere is thinking [44:32] you know what i would do this except for i get health insurance through my job and my kid timmy has [44:37] asthma and i can't go without the health insurance so maybe i'll just put it off guaranteeing health [44:43] insurance to everybody in this country would be the single most important thing we could do for small [44:47] business both for the small business owners that currently exist and the small business owners that we [44:51] would like to exist and then the second part of that is to say it's also the best thing we could [44:56] do for health and health care small businesses right now the reimbursements that get negotiated get [45:04] negotiated between big health insurance providers and big health care companies they are pricing out [45:11] would-be entrepreneurs in the health care space because they can't get the same reimbursements [45:15] imagine if under medicare for all you had a single reimbursement and you left it to the market [45:20] for a provider to be able to provide care in accordance with how they wanted to and compete [45:24] in the health care market we don't have that right now because of the power of the health insurance [45:28] industry and i don't have to tell you this we pay 19 cents on the dollar for every dollar spent in [45:32] health care we have a medical debt crisis 225 billion dollars we don't need to do that we're the [45:38] richest most powerful country in the world we can do better if we're willing to get past the politics [45:43] that tells us we can't but how do you do that without massively raising taxes and how do you pass it [45:47] without complete control of congress and the white house so we are going to have to have control of [45:51] congress in the white house but you build it by actually having a conversation with the broader [45:55] public about what is it that we want even people who are privately insured today complain about the [46:00] fact that the median deductible is four thousand five hundred dollars median income is seventy two [46:04] thousand dollars that means you pay every month off the top of your paycheck for health insurance that [46:10] you have to pay another four thousand five hundred dollars to even get so you go without a paycheck to get [46:15] health care that you paid for in every paycheck and when it comes to costs i just want to be clear [46:19] the thing that people think about every day is cost a how high is it and b when's it going to hit me [46:25] and we've got a system right now where in effect you pay for health insurance like a tax it comes off [46:30] the top of your paycheck so if i could give you 25 cheaper more durable coverage and you happen to pay [46:37] that through the federal government by who by the way you get to vote for rather than an insurance [46:41] company headed by a ceo you have no say over which do you choose i think the vast majority of people [46:46] would say actually choose this other one and we can do that and subsidize the cost by taxing [46:51] billionaires their wealth which i know you're going to get to i don't want to step on your questions [46:54] jason but that's time uh artificial intelligence could boost productivity it could also disrupt jobs [47:00] entire industries president trump says it's larger than the industrial revolution and needs no [47:05] oversight no real oversight i should say what should the federal government do to help american [47:10] businesses lead in ai but also prepare the workers for the changes it will bring so i just want to [47:16] be clear about ai i am really worried about the fact that we are about to open pandora's box and [47:22] nobody knows what's about to happen we are at a point anybody here seen fantasia you know the sources [47:27] apprentice point where the the the the brooms are out there and they start making more brooms [47:33] that's what recursive self-improvement looks like the ceos of both open ai and anthropic don't agree on [47:38] everything but they agree that this could take 50 of the white collar jobs in america and the [47:43] problem with that is that that transition is not going to happen over a 25 to 50 year time horizon [47:47] it's going to happen over a 5 to 10 year time horizon meaning you go to college to get a job [47:52] and then the job that you were supposed to get at the end of college doesn't exist anymore because it's [47:56] been automated out that beyond the question of what are these technologies able to do to slip human [48:03] control or empower the worst actors terrorists or rogue states to create bioweapons we can't even [48:09] imagine that's where we sit right now and the physical footprint data centers that they put in [48:15] your backyard that have the potential to raise your utilities and poison your water all for what a few [48:22] corporations that get to dominate it so here's what i've said we need ai under democracy and ai under [48:27] control ai should not be able to do certain things like fire weapons or fire you or deny your health [48:31] care we need an sec or fda style regulatory agency that can oversee the development of these models [48:38] to make sure we don't open pandora's box only to hate it at the very end i think that the legacy ai [48:44] corporations right now need to be rebuilt as public interest corporations shorn of traditional big tech [48:50] and then i think we need democratically appointed leadership at least 50 of their boards and i think [48:56] the government should hold about 50 of the value why because if in fact this is going to sweep through [49:01] the economy and take 50 of our jobs we're going to have to figure out what people do after that [49:05] and so we're racing right now because i understand that these stocks are about say what you will 50 [49:12] of the productivity of the entire s p so we're all racing to this and we're not really figuring out [49:18] what the back end looks like and i think it's really important to make sure that just because [49:22] we're chasing this potential bubble doesn't mean the bubble's never going to pop and it's not going [49:26] to pop in a catastrophic way so i'm just saying we can go a little bit more slowly the last thing i need [49:30] to say is a long answer but it's a big question i know the big worry everybody has here is okay but [49:34] what about china okay let's talk about china china yes is racing but here's the problem china has been [49:40] able to get their growth growth in effect by spoofing our models so it'd be like a boat pulling a skier [49:46] and so we keep going faster and then the skier is behind us and we're like they're still behind us go [49:51] faster yes but they're spoofing our models and i know it's time i know but it's a big it's a big [49:57] topic i understand i mean it's the whole future of the economy i get it i just want to be fair uh [50:01] let's talk about uh average income michigan's per capita income has fallen to 40th in the in the [50:06] nation in 99 it was 16th which raises concerns about the state's long-term economic prosperity [50:12] and if michigan was just average we would have an extra 9 500 a year if it was just running average [50:19] right now what sort of legislation can you target to help michiganders simply make more money i know in [50:27] this room y'all not gonna like my answer but there are power there's power in a union unions [50:32] built the middle class they built the 40-hour workweek they built the fact that our kids go [50:36] to schools instead of going to work they can do it again we need more unions unions are good so i [50:44] want to pass the proact to enable union organizing in every sector of american life now here's the [50:48] thing about it yes you can have unions that fight for better wages and better benefits and also we can [50:55] make sure that those unions work in concert with the small business community i'm going to give you [50:58] something else i think we should cut the employer side payroll tax why because in an era where ai is [51:07] coming we don't want to penalize businesses for hiring actual people that's what the employer-sized [51:13] business tax does we should be investing a lot more in small business growth i think the idea the paradigm [51:21] of economic development that tells us that we can subsidize or cut tax breaks for huge corporations to [51:26] give us 500 jobs that never really materialize i think that has to end i think we should be more [51:31] invested in small business growth and small business opportunity in local communities to build the [51:36] entrepreneurial ecosystem that enables people to build really great thriving businesses and then [51:41] spend their money locally here in other small businesses i just think we here in michigan have been [51:47] so addicted to a few industries that we've sort of forgotten that there are other things that we can also do [51:53] and so fighting for unions and also fighting for small businesses allows us to make sure that we're [51:58] building and creating and maneuvering more wealth in and around our communities so that more people [52:03] have more of the pie taxes uh and let's talk the national debt as well how would you change the federal [52:09] tax policy to encourage economic growth while addressing the national debt which as we know is [52:15] exploding now what trade-off would you be willing to make also to achieve both of those goals so here's the [52:21] challenge we sit on 40 trillion dollars of debt and in the past in a low interest rate environment [52:26] that was not nearly the blinking red light that it is now in a higher interest rate environment [52:31] managing our debt burden alone servicing that debt burden has become a significant part of our annual [52:37] budget and that is a real problem i just want to be clear under the other guy who's going to preach [52:40] to you i'm sure he's already preached to you fiscal responsibility 12 trillion dollars in debt we [52:44] accrued why because every time his party takes power they do two things they cut a bunch of taxes for the [52:50] richest people in the economy telling us it's going to trickle down someday and then they go to wars [52:54] we don't need to fight guess what just happened under donald trump you get the one big ugly bill [52:59] where you cut taxes for the richest people and guess what we're stuck in a war that's increasing our [53:03] gas prices that's increases in the price at the grocery store it's all the same they do the same [53:09] thing and anytime somebody like me steps up and says i actually think we could have health care and [53:12] good schools they're like that seems profligate what are we going to do about the national debt i don't [53:16] know maybe stop fighting stupid wars we shouldn't be fighting uh and maybe we should tax the richest [53:21] people and here's what i mean by that in this economy it is easier for a billionaire to make [53:25] a second billion i would rather and i think all of you would rather live in an economy where it's [53:30] easier for the average person to make a million than it is for a billionaire to make a second billion [53:35] that's just efficiency and what is the mechanism by which we do that well if we were to tax billionaires [53:41] let's say eight percent of what they made in the last year right out of wealth standpoint you return [53:47] 4.6 trillion dollars back to the economy 4.6 trillion you can address some of the debt that [53:55] we've got you can also invest in the things that people need to be able to live a good life good [54:00] schools good health care child care and the reason that it matters is because you're unlocking a lot of [54:06] the latent economic opportunity that does not actually get manifested if you don't get to go to a [54:12] good school if you don't have child care it's very difficult to be your best economic self so i would [54:18] rather tax billionaires some wealth bring that back to invest in schools and child care to unlock the [54:23] human capital that sits inside our local communities invest in access to capital for would-be entrepreneurs [54:29] and watch the thing move but right now we're in a system where if you're winning you are absolutely [54:34] winning and nobody else gets to play and herein lies part of the problem uh let me finish with this [54:40] inflation up to 3.7 percent in september which is the biggest jump it's taken since may [54:44] uh and now rent is considered one of the more concerning costs for people out there i know we've [54:50] touched on this a little bit already but mortgage rates up to 7.25 percent for a 30-year fix which [54:56] makes the american dream just unattainable for a lot of people out there who want to buy a home [55:01] what do you plan to do in the senate to make housing more affordable for michiganers i know you've [55:06] touched on it but dive a little bit deeper into that for me so we've got to build more housing [55:10] fundamentally i actually think the 21st century road to housing act that just got passed bipartisan [55:16] legislation even in this political gridlock is a really impressive first start but i also think [55:22] we just need to build more and we need to address a lot of the inefficiencies in the market that enable [55:29] a little bit of disallocated capital among the richest people to pull housing stock off the market [55:33] that shows up in a couple of different ways number one the speculation that happens on behalf of private [55:39] equity etc in the housing market that takes housing housing off of that market that's a problem [55:45] because it raises the price of housing for everybody the other part of that though is short-term rentals [55:49] right you think about something like airbnb and verbo and these are great like i stay at them i think [55:55] they're really lovely to have the problem though is that for too many markets it enables somebody with [56:01] a little bit of extra capital in let's say new york city to buy housing in a place like detroit take it [56:06] off the market and rent it as a hotel without actually addressing the fact that you've down [56:11] raised the house housing price for everybody else in that market and so we've got to make sure that [56:16] these big tech companies pay their fair share back into building the housing we need i also think that [56:21] we've got way too much regulation around building housing projects particularly when it comes to [56:25] zoning and licensing so you've got to have an army of of of accountants and of lobbyists and of uh uh [56:32] of others who can help you get your housing project approved now of course the only folks who can [56:37] afford that are the ones who build unaffordable housing and so we've got to address a lot of these [56:42] zoning and licensing issues uh at the local level and incentivize that at the federal level and then [56:47] the last thing i'll say is i i think you know the average the average age at early home ownership now [56:53] is in the 40s that's crazy right my generation is waiting until they're 40 i'm 42 right luckily my wife [57:00] and i were able to afford a house about six years ago but for a lot of folks my age they're still [57:05] waiting now it's only going to get worse and we need a down payment assistance program for folks to [57:11] be able to get that first home and to start accruing the wealth that home ownership offers for folks who [57:15] can own a home and afford a home in this economy take two minutes for a closing statement if you like [57:21] i'm really honored to be here thank you so much for uh including me in this this conversation [57:27] i understand you probably assumed i was going to sit here and preach at you about a whole bunch of [57:33] things i am a capitalist and if i have not shown you that i understand how capitalism works i invite [57:38] you to read the stuff that i write but we've got to ask whether or not capitalism is working for [57:44] everybody because the whole idea of capitalism is that it's supposed to unlock latent human potential [57:50] so that folks can come in somebody with a great idea and a work ethic can come in and open something [57:54] and build something and grow that's been gone for a lot of people and unless we're able to actually [58:00] invest in the means of participating in capitalism good education child care health care functional [58:07] infrastructure i worry about where we go from here i believe in this country i know what this [58:13] country did for me but i also know we're a long way away from being our most effective i know that [58:19] the same country that gave me amazing public schools has protected my health it has not done that [58:24] for kids who grew up just 15 minutes away and it's failing that right now i rebuilt health departments [58:29] to try and put glasses on kids so they can see the blackboard blackboard made sure kids weren't [58:33] drinking lead in their uh their schools in the water after the foot water crisis but those are [58:39] just putting band-aids on a far bigger structural injury and we've got to be serious about making [58:44] sure that everybody can participate in democracy if we want our region to grow and we want our country [58:48] to go old ideas have not been working we are suffering for them i think it's time for us to think [58:53] differently about how we enable a future that actually allows all of our kids and our grandkids to know [58:58] that they're going to have the same opportunities that we might have had thank you so much democratic [59:04] nominee for u.s senate dr abdul el-sayed good to see you steve thank you jason how about another round [59:19] for mike rogers and abdul el-sayed please thank you jason you crushed it tell your boss you get to go [59:32] play golf for the afternoon take advantage of this october weather please do that me you're talking to me [59:37] yes you i already got my hole in one two weeks ago i'm good oh way to go which is why i'm limping [59:43] that's another whole long story all right and how about a round for the best darn chimer in the [59:47] land jr asano you know you're done for at least another two more years on those chimes so yeah [59:58] good all right ladies and gentlemen thank you for your respect today uh we invite you to join us [1:00:03] immediately for a strolling lunch in the ballroom it's the crystal ballroom which is one floor up you [1:00:09] can take the stairs take the elevator tell your friends and colleagues to join the dec we're a good [1:00:14] group of people on time every time this meeting of the detroit economic club is now adjourned thank you