Karmelo Anthony SHOCKING Evidence, George Pino Not Guilty, & the Cross-Examination of Arthur Aidala

[00:00:00] Speaker ?: - Hello and welcome back to Positively Legal. [00:00:09] Mark Eiglarsh: I'm one of your co-hosts, Mark Eiglarsh, and my bio says that I'm a veteran criminal defense attorney, former prosecutor, adjunct law professor, father of three, avid pickleball player. I love my pizza, well done with extra sauce. All right, enough about me. I got a co-host named Jonna Spilboer. [00:00:27] Jonna Spilboer: And I am a criminal defense attorney, founder of my law firm, Jonna Spilboer Law. And I have my name on pens, which you know what? These should be included in the merch website at some point, don't you think? - I'll give you a dollar for it. - No, no, cheap. Like I'll probably pay you to take some of my pens. I think that's what we'll do, but enough about that. What are we talking about today? Carmelo Anthony has a new legal team, and the judge recently released a trove of evidence late last week. We're gonna bring you all of those details. [00:01:03] Mark Eiglarsh: - That's right. We're also gonna talk about the big George Pino case. Yesterday I was on MK True Crime, and look, I'm no hero for predicting that it would be not guilty. I think anybody who was following the trial, or even heard a little bit about it, believed that the state grossly overcharged him. We're gonna talk about that verdict. And also, we got the bald brother, my beautiful bald brother's gonna join us, Arthur Ida, amazing New York defense attorney. And what we've done, and I don't think he knows it yet, but Jonna and I have invited him on to surprise him a little bit. It's our segment called Cross, short for cross-examination. We're going to cross-examine one of the greatest cross-examiners in the country. That's coming up. But first, Jonna, it's happy hour time. Yeah. - Yeah. - Okay. Grab yourself a drink. Let's chill out. How was your day, Jonna? [00:02:03] Jonna Spilboer: - I gotta pick your brain. [00:02:04] Mark Eiglarsh: - Better than my nose, yes. [00:02:06] Jonna Spilboer: - Arthur, yeah, indeed. Arthur's not the only fabulous criminal defense attorney, right, you happen to be one too. [00:02:13] Mark Eiglarsh: - Oh, stop it, stop it. [00:02:15] Jonna Spilboer: - I'm not shabby. I'm not, yeah, right. Tell me more about my eyes. - Yes. - But you know what, so, and this is something I think we've all gone through a time or two. I-- - Menopause? - No, no, actually. I'm like 20 years away from that, Mark, please. Come on. [00:02:31] Speaker 3: - All right, we have, yeah. [00:02:33] Jonna Spilboer: - So here's the thing. I set a case for a bench trial that is now going to be coming up in August. [00:02:41] Mark Eiglarsh: - Tell them what that means. You're going to try the case while sitting on a bench? Tell them, they don't know. [00:02:45] Jonna Spilboer: - No, here's what a bench trial is. A bench, as opposed to a jury trial, means that I'm going to be presenting my evidence, prosecutors are going to be presenting their evidence in front of just a judge, not a jury. Now, why I did that and whether I should be doing that is what I want to talk to you about. I really want to get your opinion. Here's the case, okay? It's a DWI, and here's the evidence. Here is just the little box of evidence that the prosecution will be able to present. Man gets in a car in a shopping plaza parking lot. Drives off, gets onto the roadway, has a head-on collision, but not a deadly one. Like people aren't hurt. You can walk away from this head-on collision, okay? Slow speed, head-on. [00:03:37] Mark Eiglarsh: - Strike two against your client so far. Go on. [00:03:40] Jonna Spilboer: - Slow speed, head-on collision. Man driving the car gets out. There is camera footage by witnesses who may or may not testify, seeing that a man walking away from the scene, okay? So it's not like official footage that can be subpoenaed. It's somebody's cell phone, all right? So a man is walking away from the scene. Police come, they rough him up. He bangs his head on the asphalt. They take him to the police station, where they attempt to get him to breathe into a breathalyzer, right? To get a blood alcohol reading. For probably about an hour, there is a conversation between the man and the police where the man is saying, I'm not refusing to give you a test. I wanna talk to a lawyer. They're trying to look up a lawyer. They're trying to get a phone number. They're doing all this stuff. At the end of the day, the police say, your time is up. We're not gonna give you the test. [00:04:42] Mark Eiglarsh: - So no consciousness of guilt on that refusal. That's the ideal scenario so far, yes. [00:04:47] Jonna Spilboer: And there's also no reading, okay? Now, when you hear these tapes will be played, obviously. And when you listen to the man speaking to the cops, he is speaking in full sentences. But let's just say, it could appear to be slurred speech. Slightly slurred sometimes. Now remember, he'd been dropped on his head though, Mark, on asphalt. He had a car accident, been dropped on his head. All right, I'm just saying. That is all of the evidence. Now, here's the deal. With no blood alcohol results. With these kind of interviews, like look, you could argue that, the prosecution's gonna argue. He got in a car, he drove, he had a head-on collision. You don't normally do that, right? Unless perhaps there's something wrong with you. But-- [00:05:37] Mark Eiglarsh: - Yeah, what are you gonna say? [00:05:39] Jonna Spilboer: - But-- [00:05:40] Mark Eiglarsh: - We all await your defense on that. How did that happen? [00:05:43] Jonna Spilboer: - My defense is, my client is guilty, of driving with his ability impaired. Not by, not of driving while intoxicated. What do you think of that? [00:05:57] Mark Eiglarsh: - I don't think I understand what you're saying. He's a shitty driver, but he wasn't impaired due to alcohol or controlled substance. [00:06:05] Jonna Spilboer: - No, here's the difference. In New York, driving while intoxicated, you have to prove that they don't have a reading. They don't know the number. They have to prove that he was driving while intoxicated to a substantial extent. Driving while ability impaired. Not even a crime in New York. It's a violation and all the prosecution has to prove is that he was driving with his ability impaired to any extent. [00:06:29] Mark Eiglarsh: - All right. [00:06:30] Jonna Spilboer: - That's a slam dunk. [00:06:31] Mark Eiglarsh: - So two questions. One, have you shared this with the prosecutor to try to get some reduced, you know, charge? [00:06:39] Jonna Spilboer: - Been sharing it for eight months. [00:06:42] Mark Eiglarsh: - And they ain't doing shit. - No, no go, no go. - Secondly, and you didn't even need to get into the facts. My analysis starts with how well do you know this judge? Does he lean to the right? Does he lean to the left? You know, what's this judge about? I don't know that I'd ever randomly just put my client's fate in the hands of an elected official 'cause that's what judges are. So what do you know about this judge? [00:07:08] Jonna Spilboer: - I know that when we had a conference with the judge and I told him that I was intending to request a bench trial, he said, "How come?" And I said, "Because the prosecution will not accept my offer to have him plead guilty to a driving while ability-impaired. Judge, wink, nod, you feel me?" [00:07:33] Mark Eiglarsh: - Did the judge wink back? [00:07:35] Jonna Spilboer: - And I got the feeling that he felt me. Now, I could be wrong, I could be wrong, but I don't think a jury, and it would only be six people, I think a jury, when they hear accident, when they hear the tapes, they're not gonna know the subtle nuance between driving while intoxicated- [00:07:52] Mark Eiglarsh: - Okay, all right, so here's my answer. Here's my answer. My answer is I defer to you and your professional judgment. I think that if you're inclined to go bench, I trust your gut on this. I think if you think that the jurors are not gonna get the subtleties of it, they're not gonna like his speech, you know, the head-on collision, they're worried that could be any of their family members. I didn't like the head-on collision part either. - Nobody does. - If you want a judge to be following the law and be discerning about whether they've met that element or not, you know, then yeah, go bench. And then worst comes to worst, a judge ain't gonna hurt you on sentencing 'cause you didn't do a jury, right? They're usually more inclined to be, you know, kinder to you after a bench trial. [00:08:36] Jonna Spilboer: - I like that you said go with my gut 'cause my gut is screaming. [00:08:40] Mark Eiglarsh: - Okay, all right, so what does your gut tell you about the newly released evidence? - In the Carmelo Anthony case. Isn't that where we're going right now? [00:08:48] Jonna Spilboer: - Yeah, I get madder and madder, yeah, about this case. - Do you? [00:08:54] Mark Eiglarsh: - Yeah, I'm-- - Let's jump to a sot, as we call it, a clip, if you will, and this we hadn't seen. I wanna go with the one where he's running away from the tent. I think that that is V1, yeah, V1, let's roll that, and I think we get to talk over it. All right, here we go, all right. We see him running through the bleachers. That would be him circled in white. Why did you use white and why didn't you circle him in black? See, see, there's race in this case, kidding. - All right, Mark. - I don't know, I don't know what I'm saying. Okay, all right, well, first of all, I, go ahead. You tell me what you thought, if anything, when you saw this. [00:09:37] Jonna Spilboer: - Well, wait a minute, so this is supposed to be video after he stabbed Austin Metcalf in the chest. [00:09:43] Mark Eiglarsh: - Correct. [00:09:44] Jonna Spilboer: - And so he's fleeing the scene. [00:09:46] Mark Eiglarsh: - And he is 17-year-old Carmelo Anthony, a senior, who was under the tent of the rival team. And he never testified, so we don't know why he went under there. We don't know why he was carrying a knife to attract meat. And Metcalf apparently pushes Anthony after an exchange of words, and we can get into the weeds on what words were exchanged, and he stabs Metcalf in the heart and kills him. Okay, go ahead. [00:10:13] Jonna Spilboer: - And then flees the scene, which is interesting. Which, so we had talked about this case a little last week, and I think this actually is interesting, because he presented, well, he said he was presenting a self-defense defense, although he never testified. So it's kind of impossible to present a self-defense defense when you don't testify. But I ask you why. [00:10:36] Mark Eiglarsh: - Impossible, challenging. [00:10:38] Jonna Spilboer: - It's very challenging, very challenging. So here, but okay, so now we see this video, right, which we hadn't really known about before. Now, I ask you, put yourself in the shoes of somebody who is stabbing another person in self-defense. Does it, and maybe I'm splitting hairs here, does it make sense if you're defending yourself, you stab somebody, does it make sense to run away? Now look, you've got somebody who's now on the ground, right? He can't fight back, right? We've stabbed him in the heart. We know that he's on the ground. He's being assisted by his brother, his twin brother comes over, et cetera. So you're not in danger of this fight continuing, or this threat continuing. Do you beat feet and try to get out of dodge real quick and hope that nobody catches you if you're- - Are you asking that? [00:11:30] Mark Eiglarsh: - Are you asking that because like me, and like most of the jurors, you're seeing potentially consciousness of guilt running away. Is that what you're suggesting? [00:11:39] Jonna Spilboer: - That's what I'm suggesting. [00:11:40] Mark Eiglarsh: - That's what I thought you were. And I felt the same way. - And I felt the same way. - I felt the same way. I felt the same way. - I felt the same way. - I felt the same way. - I felt the same way. - I felt the same way. - I felt the same way. [00:11:49] Speaker ?: - I felt the same way. [00:11:49] Mark Eiglarsh: - And I felt the same way. - I felt the same way. - And I felt the same way. - I felt the same way. - And I felt the same way. - And I felt the same way. - And I felt the same way. - I felt the same way. - And I felt the same way. - And I felt the same way. - And I felt the same way. - And I felt the same way. - And I felt the same way. - And I felt the same way. - And I felt the same way. - And I felt the same way. - And I felt the same way. - And I felt the same way. - And I felt the same way. - And I felt the same way. - And I felt the same way. - And I felt the same way. - And I felt the same way. - And I felt the same way. - And I felt the same way. - And I felt the same way. - And I felt the same way. - And I felt the same way. - And I felt the same way. - He had the presence of mind to know I shouldn't run away. You know, he's not going to really think that he should stick around. So I'm not gonna hold that against him. [00:12:27] Jonna Spilboer: - Well, okay. I probably would feel better about it if they get into this altercation. He's claiming self-defense. And then he runs to an adult. Hey, help. Call for help. [00:12:40] Mark Eiglarsh: - Let's get to what he runs to. There's a good clip. I think it's number one. Let's see that and we'll get your feedback. [00:12:46] Speaker 4: - All right, this is the alleged suspect. - All right, bye. [00:12:53] Mark Eiglarsh: - By the way, notice that in the back of his shirt. [00:12:55] Speaker 4: - Huh? - Huh? - Yeah, I know. - Okay. - What fear did I do? [00:13:00] Mark Eiglarsh: - Intentional. Fear of God. [00:13:02] Speaker 4: - So nothing on your person at all? - Nothing. - No, sir. - Mind if I reach in your pockets and stuff and all that? [00:13:07] Mark Eiglarsh: - No, there's nothing on my person 'cause I got rid of the knife. - Right. - Back in the bleachers. Not a good look either. You know, why do you get rid of the knife? [00:13:14] Speaker 4: - A little personal there, okay? Just to make sure. [00:13:16] Speaker ?: - My part right there. - Okay. - Yeah. - Do you want me to get up now? - Yeah. - Go on. - All right. [00:13:26] Speaker 4: The victim's gonna be underneath that tent over there, so I'll get it, medics. [00:13:31] Speaker ?: - Jump up the fence. [00:13:34] Speaker 3: - I'm not sure I think we're analyzing. [00:13:37] Speaker 4: - Memorial tent's over there, guys. [00:13:38] Speaker 3: All right. - He put his hands on me. [00:13:42] Speaker 4: - You hear that? - I said I'm not saying he put his hands on me. [00:13:45] Mark Eiglarsh: - Twice, he put his hands on me. He's crying and he put his hands on me. [00:13:48] Speaker 4: - All right, see a little bit of blood on your hands there, okay? - All right. - So your first name is Carmelo? [00:13:52] Mark Eiglarsh: - The video's in capture, but there's a spot of blood on his finger. [00:13:55] Speaker 4: - I see, hold on, I'll see, hold on. - His middle finger. - I don't know yet, man. - Carmelo, C-A-R-A-K-A-R. - K-A-R. - M-E-L-O. - M-E-L-O, Carmelo, Carmelo. [00:14:05] Mark Eiglarsh: - All right, Johnna, what does that do for you, if anything? [00:14:10] Jonna Spilboer: - Makes it worse. It makes it worse. [00:14:13] Mark Eiglarsh: - Why? He said he put his hands on me right away, gives the defense, I'm just playing devil's advocate. [00:14:19] Jonna Spilboer: - Yeah, and I'm doing the thing that I actually criticize many, many people doing. Like, you never know how somebody's going to react after a certain traumatic event, right? You never know, and I've said that a million times on television. - But he's not acting like I would act if I were defending myself after a traumatic- [00:14:38] Mark Eiglarsh: - You ain't him, he ain't you. [00:14:39] Jonna Spilboer: - He put his hands on me, he put his hands on me. Like, you know, I would want to hear, thought he was going to kill me. He was choking me, you know, he punched me in the throat. Like, he put his hands on me, put his hands on me. So that doesn't blame you. [00:14:53] Mark Eiglarsh: - I want to end on this question, I'm just curious, 'cause I do want to talk about the George Pino case. Do you believe, not that it matters, but I'm just curious, do you believe that he believes that he was legally justified? Putting aside, if you can, the fact that he fled, he threw the knife, you know. Do you think that he was raised, that as long as somebody puts their hands on him, that he's legally justified in plunging a knife into their chest? Was he raised like that? - Well, I mean, I put that to the side. Does he believe it? I threw in raised because, again, you have to consider from where the apple came, and maybe he was taught that, I don't know. [00:15:34] Jonna Spilboer: - Let's go a step back, let's go a step back. Let's try to psychoanalyze why this 17-year-old brought a deadly weapon to a track meet. [00:15:42] Mark Eiglarsh: - We will never know because he never testified, unfortunately. [00:15:46] Jonna Spilboer: But I think that alone is problematic, unless you tell me, look at that knife. Look at the knife that was shown on the screen. Unless you tell me that this track meet was in some horrific part of town, which I would also find hard to believe, it doesn't make sense. And again, he's not, look, if he's a delivery driver and it's the middle of the night and he works in some rough part of town and you want to have something to defend yourself, I completely understand that. Track meet with other teenagers in the middle of the day. [00:16:19] Mark Eiglarsh: - I'm with you. No. - But I'm asking you to speculate. Yes or no, do you think that he believes that he was justified? - No. - No. [00:16:31] Jonna Spilboer: I think he was trying to, he had time to reflect, enough time to reflect on his sprint away from the crime scene to be like, uh-oh, you know, I better think quick. That's my speculation. [00:16:45] Mark Eiglarsh: - I got it. And again, to the other side, he did say, you go ahead and you put, let's see what happens. You touch me, said something like that, which led me to believe that, well, he thinks erroneously that if somebody touches him, that does make him the initial aggressor, that's not erroneous, but that then I get to do whatever. I can just go to town on him. So maybe in some respects, he believed that he could do it. I don't know. We won't know 'cause he doesn't testify. All right, let's talk about George Pino. And this is a case down here in South Florida. I know all the players. The judge, that's who I tried my last case in front of, not guilty. The prosecutor, Laura Adams, I consider her to be, she's a former colleague of mine. I worked with her at the state attorney's office. The best there is. Howard Srebnik, the defense lawyer, great attorney, grew up with him. I've been texting with him. Great guy, talented attorney. Let's start at the end. George was charged with manslaughter and vessel homicide. And there were a number of teenagers, including his own, on a boat, celebrating his daughter's birthday, I think 17-year-old birthday, somewhere in there. [00:17:59] Jonna Spilboer: The birthday or graduation. [00:18:00] Mark Eiglarsh: And they were drinking on the boat and partying and having fun. And ultimately, he missed, he missed a marker in the water and his boat slammed into it. One girl tragically died. I didn't realize it but the father of the girl who died, I knew from the state attorney's office too. He looked so familiar, I couldn't place him. And then another girl is permanently disabled. She'll need help 24/7 for the rest of her life. This is a true tragedy. But the prosecutors alleged that he committed culpable negligence. I mean, that his conduct was reckless as opposed to mere negligence. And I think that might've been the problem. Let's go to SOT 2 and we'll see what happened on the back end of the case. [00:18:44] Speaker 3: The jury finds as follows. As to counsel of the information vessel homicide of Luciana Cristina Fernandez, the defendant is not here. Oh, man, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh. [00:19:04] Mark Eiglarsh: Yeah, quite a moment, a moment that I predicted. I had no doubt at all that that would be the verdict. I mean, I've never been so sure of a verdict ever. [00:19:14] Jonna Spilboer: I think you mentioned that last week. But Mark, do you, let me ask you, do you think the jury did not convict him of that because was there no alcohol evidence? [00:19:22] Mark Eiglarsh: He had, he claimed he had two beers. If you're asking me to invest any of my kid's college fund, that I believe that, the answer is no, I won't. Do I believe that there was zero evidence that proved he had more than two beers? Yeah, there was nothing else. In fact, everybody testified that he appeared to have his faculties in order and that he was not impaired. Even one responder went right up to him with the intent to test them and look at him. But they're like, he's like, no, he doesn't seem to be no slurred speech, no this, no that. So they didn't do a test on him. So we will never know how much he really drank, you know? [00:20:01] Jonna Spilboer: So they never took a chemical test. They never took his blood, they never took his breath. [00:20:06] Mark Eiglarsh: Nope, nope, nope. [00:20:08] Jonna Spilboer: So why not? And I'm only asking because in a case like that here, for example, even without consent, if there's a death, they're gonna strap you down and take your blood. [00:20:18] Mark Eiglarsh: Without a warrant. And this is fish and wildlife folks down here. My clients have brought in a little oversized, an undersized lobster and they've asked for jail time. So the fact that they were so liberal on a teenage death case and severe injury blows my mind. That said, maybe what they're saying is true. They had zero belief that he was impaired. And so we're not going to then draw his blood. I think you should have at least asked. Just ask him, you know? [00:20:52] Jonna Spilboer: So was there any lesser included that the jury did know? [00:20:57] Mark Eiglarsh: The defense went all or nothing, which I didn't think was as ballsy as everybody said. They went all or nothing because the prosecutors went for culpable negligence, a willful and wanton disregard of human life or property. It's kind of like when you see it, you know what we're dealing with, right? The person who's like jumping waves and jumping over a boat or driving too closely or doing crazy stuff where you're just like, but his own wife and daughter were in the boat. Nobody had a problem with the way he was driving. He was driving about 47 miles an hour. The water was as smooth as can be. It is. However, the boat is capable of going a lot faster. There was testimony from the first responder that he cruises at about 55 miles an hour. He went to the scene. He arrived at the scene. He was going 75 miles an hour. So there was no posted speed limit that he was violating. Everyone on the boat felt safe and comfortable, although mostly were probably impaired because the teenagers were big. [00:21:56] Jonna Spilboer: How big was the buoy? What did he run into? [00:22:01] Mark Eiglarsh: Um, one of those markers, it's like a pole, a cement pole with a green thing. And the defense raised like, Hey, it was high tide. So a portion of that would have been hidden. Um, his attention could have been divided. He might've taken his eyes off and his wife was texting at that time. So maybe he was looking. So the point is they conceded. The defense did what he did was negligent. The defense used brilliant examples. Like, have you ever been driving and you like run a stop sign? You're like, Oh my God, where was my head at? Or, and by the way, I was surprised to learn most of my kids had done that. I mean, and my wife, everybody does that. Yes. And God forbid something happens. You pay money. You don't go to the pokey for it. The jurors took less than two hours, which is a slam dunk. [00:22:47] Jonna Spilboer: Oh yeah. And speaking of paying money. Yes. Before anybody asks, I'm sure in a civil action, the families of the victim or the victim who's alive will be compensated for that. [00:23:00] Mark Eiglarsh: You are correct because they were. The civil case was resolved and the jurors learned about that. They learned that they've already paid out. He admitted responsibility. He was negligent. It was the perfect defense, you know, where you admit your wrongdoing to the extent that you can, but then you say, yeah, but I can't admit that because I wasn't willful and wanton in terms of my disregard of human life or property. My own wife and daughter was on there. [00:23:27] Jonna Spilboer: They all felt safe that, uh, and that is a nuance and you're probably right. That's why the jury only took two hours and it's a perfect defense, unlike perfect defense attorney who I think we're going to be speaking to. [00:23:40] Mark Eiglarsh: I can't wait. I cannot believe it. I will believe it when I see it that Arthur Idala takes time out of his crazy busy schedule to be here with us. And we can ask him anything, Jonna, he's so busy, anything. He says, I'm not going to answer that. I say, you got to Arthur. You owe us. [00:23:59] Jonna Spilboer: All right. You can't handle the truth. [00:24:01] Mark Eiglarsh: Yes. That's it. So coming up in the next block, stick around. We've got a top trial attorney, Arthur Idala, who's represented Lawrence Taylor. He sent me Lawrence Taylor. I represented Lawrence Taylor down here, but it came from Arthur. Harvey Weinstein, Rudy Giuliani, he's represented many, many, many high profile defendants and we get to ask them everything and anything. Anything. Anything we want. Stick around. [00:24:40] Jonna Spilboer: Welcome back to Positively Legal. Arthur Idala, New York trial attorney and our pal, the fashionably late Arthur Idala joins us right now, finally, after about eight minutes of non-air time. Arthur Idala, welcome to Positively Legal. [00:24:59] Speaker 5: Oh, I'm so happy. This is almost as bad as when I was a prosecutor and I got stuck in the elevator in the middle of a trial. And when I walked in and the firemen came, they had to open it up and I was in front of a tough judge. I walk in and I walk in, everyone's there. The witness is on the bench, the jurors are in the jury body. I was a kid, I was like 26 and I was like, hell is a ghost? And he's like, Mr. Idala, would you like to explain your tardiness to the jury? I was like, yeah. I was in those elevators and I got stuck and I was really scared and I called my mom. They let me out. All right, Arthur, enough of the war story. [00:25:31] Mark Eiglarsh: Listen, buddy, whatever the producers told you, I want you to forget about that. Jonna and I have been scheming and it began way before we knew you were going to be a guest. One day we wanted to start a new segment here on Positively Legal. You will be our first guest ever to participate in a segment called CROSS, short for cross-examination. Here are the rules and we will get your buy-in so that they don't say that we're being rude to you in the comments. Number one, we're not going to swear you in, but you have to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth. Like you're being cross-examined, like a witness would. Secondly, you must answer all of the questions that we ask of you. Do you understand so far? [00:26:13] Speaker 5: Can I pass? We're going to be looking at an empty chair. Why don't you ask me something that I'm not comfortable answering, like, you know, about my feelings towards... Doesn't matter, Arthur. [00:26:23] Mark Eiglarsh: Doesn't matter. Coming from a guy who made more witnesses pee in their pants, okay, and made them... All right. All right. All right. All right. You can dish it out, Arthur. All right. And finally, finally, if we interrupt you, it's because you're non-responsive or our attention spans can't handle your long answers. Yeah. I'll keep them short. I'll keep them short. Keep them crunching. We have a lot to cover. We'll have follow-up if we care. All right. I'll start off. Here's a softball, Arthur. Go-to karaoke song. What is it? [00:26:53] Speaker 5: That's Life by Frank Sinatra. [00:26:55] Jonna Spilboer: Okay. [00:26:56] Mark Eiglarsh: Of course. Johnna, go. [00:26:58] Jonna Spilboer: Okay. Who is your hall pass? [00:27:01] Mark Eiglarsh: Oh. Explain what that is. Hold on. You mean who I could go fool around with? Hold on, Johnna. Some people don't know what hall pass is. All right. [00:27:09] Jonna Spilboer: Hall pass is like a famous person, a celebrity that your spouse would be okay if you had a little rendezvous with because the person is so spectacular. [00:27:19] Speaker 5: Hold on a second. My spouse would be okay? I don't know, Mark. Do you have someone your spouse would be okay with? No. I don't think that person exists. All right. Hypothetically. [00:27:30] Speaker 3: Hypothetically. Like J-Ho. [00:27:32] Speaker 5: Hypothetically. No, no, no. It's very easy. It's one person. [00:27:36] Speaker ?: Megan Kelly. [00:27:37] Mark Eiglarsh: You are such a sucker. That is very funny. We said your answers. All right. I'm not going to. Maybe that is truthful. Who knows? All right. [00:27:47] Speaker 5: All right. All right. Well, let's go. Let's go. Whoa. [00:27:52] Mark Eiglarsh: My gosh. Are you crazy? What you just said is worse than what I just said. No. No. That gets very much be truthful. Are you kidding me? It can be. It's just a little weird. I have a 20 year relationship. She's gorgeous. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. Next question. Here we go. You're doing the same as me. You are. You came into practice 1992. So in your 33 years or so of practice. Tell us all. What is the dumbest thing that you've ever said in court? [00:28:17] Speaker ?: Oh, it was. [00:28:18] Speaker 5: I just got stuck in an elevator. And folks. And folks. After you hear this witness, you will understand. It's as clear as night. That's supposed to say it's clear as day. Oh, shoot. Okay. You probably said that. [00:28:30] Speaker ?: I am. [00:28:31] Speaker 5: I didn't catch you. The judge called me up. He goes, you know, you said it's as clear as night, not as clear as day. That's great. All right, John, I go. All right. [00:28:40] Jonna Spilboer: If you're on death row, what's your last meal? Oh, I had that on my list too. [00:28:45] Speaker 5: Oh, easy. My mother-in-law, Annette Fortuna's, um, faleta de pomodoro, a rigatoni pasta with a beautiful glass of red wine. But I don't think they let you have alcohol. Um, and my father-in-law's sausage on the grill. [00:28:57] Mark Eiglarsh: And they wouldn't have to shave your head. So it's all good. Um, well, maybe the sides a little bit. So tell us, have you ever had a client tell you a story that was so outrageous, you literally said, come on, man, come on. [00:29:12] Speaker 5: Oh, as a part of their, part of their defense or just any story? Yeah. Oh, yeah. No, no, no. Yeah. Yes. Absolutely. When the, uh, young man who was charged with killing someone and he had blood all over him. Uh, his excuse was that his girlfriend actually killed the person and he had the blood over him because he was trying to save the guy's life. I was like, come on, dude. By the way, the young woman was Bill Clinton's intern when he was at one in president United States in the white house. He's the one who was supposed to be firing off the 45, uh, Magnum. So yeah, I was like, no, that's not going to work. And he got convicted. [00:29:47] Speaker ?: Hmm. [00:29:48] Jonna Spilboer: You represented him. Oh yeah. [00:29:51] Speaker 5: We didn't go with that defense, but he still got, but there was no way to get around. And there's these blood all over his clothes. Well, yeah. All right. Um, what's your superpower? Um, communicating with people, with everybody from the guy on the street who sells the hot dogs at Nathan's to Supreme court justices and everyone in between just be able to communicate with folks and realize everyone puts on their pants, legs one, one at a time. We know it's not showing up on time. [00:30:18] Speaker ?: We knew that. [00:30:19] Jonna Spilboer: Right. No. Yeah. [00:30:22] Mark Eiglarsh: Another dig. Yeah. So we, we love your wife. Okay. You've been married. How long? Hmm. Exactly. [00:30:30] Speaker ?: 10 years and a month. [00:30:31] Mark Eiglarsh: Okay. [00:30:32] Speaker 5: And you have kids. Tell everybody. We, well, Marianne and I have Arthur and Ariana. And of course my biggest superpower is my constitution. My son, Luca, who's 19. [00:30:42] Mark Eiglarsh: Okay. So here's the question. Okay. About your wife. What would she say if we had her on also under oath? Okay. What would she say is the most annoying thing you do? [00:30:53] Jonna Spilboer: Wait, do we have time? Can you, do you have a few? Maybe you have a few. [00:30:57] Speaker 5: Oh, I'm sure there's a list. There's definitely, there's definitely more than one. Give us, give us a few. Give us the number one. Walking in the house without taking off my shoes, leaving the toilet bowl seat up and making plans without telling her about it. Like there's one that's lingering this weekend. Like we have people coming to our house in, in Long Island. Like with their two children and I have to tell her that and they'll be arriving in about 72 hours. So I do that often. Like sure we can do that or we'll go there or we'll go here. Why? I don't know. I'm spontaneous. And sometimes, you know, she needs to be a little push to get things done. Like, you know, I just, I get things done. I never let perfection get in the way of the good. So yes, the ideal situation would be to discuss things and sit down and plan a menu and like, let's just do it. Let's get it done and, and see what happens. And it usually works out. [00:31:44] Mark Eiglarsh: Not always, but usually. And then, and then as a follow up, I'm throwing in another question. Okay. What's, what's her shortcoming? What do you complain about? [00:31:51] Jonna Spilboer: Oh, Arthur. Arthur, stop it right now. [00:31:53] Speaker 5: She's very controlling. Go for it, Arthur. No, she's very, she's a spectacular mother. And she's very, she's very controlling with the children and their time and their ability to spend alone time with their father because she is rightly under the impression, like, I'm going to corrupt them like a little bit. Like Arthur, don't worry about it. It's fine. You don't have to clean your room all the time. Daddy had a messy room too. Like, that's not what she wants her son hearing from his dad. But I mean, I can't complain because as a mother, she's really spectacular. I just wish she would like, let me and the kids have a little more fun because I'm basically the third child in the household. And that's not going to be a surprise to either of you. [00:32:33] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:32:34] Jonna Spilboer: If you had to trade lives with one person for one week, who would it be? [00:32:40] Speaker 5: Who would it be? Justice Antonin Scalia. If he was alive. Obviously, if he was alive. Living or dead, right? Back in his heyday. That's fine. Back in his heyday. Like, you know, 2012, 2013. You know, he was having fun. He was on the Supreme Court writing these crazy decisions and going to Italy and drinking wine and going to the opera and hunting and going whitewater rafting and had nine kids and 33 grandkids and really seemed to be enjoying life while he had one of the most important jobs in the world. Wait a minute. [00:33:12] Jonna Spilboer: He had 33 grandchildren. [00:33:14] Speaker 5: I think, I think that was when he was alive. I think it wound up being closer to 40. Maybe 38. Yeah. Nine kids. How about this? One of his sons is a priest. So it's, it's 33 or 35, 39 with eight kids. Wait, how many kids did he have? He had nine. How many kids? Oh, gosh. Justice Scalia had nine children. And one of them is a priest. So with eight children, he wound up with almost four. I don't think it was 40, but almost 40 grandchildren. [00:33:43] Jonna Spilboer: That's an expensive Christmas, you know? [00:33:47] Speaker 5: Well, his wife took care of all of that. And I would used to challenge him. I'd go, come on, Scalia. You're the most brilliant guy. Tell me their names. Rattle them off. And he could get through a hunk of them. Not all of them, but a hunk of them. [00:34:00] Jonna Spilboer: Wait, can you just remind us before Mark gives you a question? How did you meet Justice Scalia? [00:34:05] Speaker 5: Um, it was based on my stupidity. Um, I was in law school. And the first year, between first and second year, I interned in the Manhattan DA's office. But between the second and third year, I couldn't get an internship anywhere. Um, in the prestigious law school I was at, the City University. Nobody liked you. So there was a study abroad program in Italy. And he, he was one of the guest speakers. And there's some people in life you just bond with. I mean, you asked me that earlier question on my superpower and being communication. He and I just really, really got along. And we wanted to drink and wine together and olive oil together. And he would be smoking a cigarette while I'm sneaking a cigar. And at the last day, he gave me his business card, which I really wish I had. And he wrote his secretary's name on it. He goes, "I'm gonna call when you get back to the States." He was a justice at the time? He was a justice when you met him? Yes. Wow. And during, it was during the summer that while I was with him, Clarence Thomas had just gotten, um, nominated. It was before Nita Hill, but they were already attacking him. And I learned some curse words from Justice Scalia about the media based on how they were attacking, um, Clarence. They just came out with a biography about Justice Scalia. I'm in it three times. And then three photos of me and Justice Scalia in the biography. And it's one of the highlights of my legal career to be included in that. Hmm. [00:35:20] Jonna Spilboer: All right. [00:35:21] Mark Eiglarsh: I'll give you that. Cool. So, Arthur, I'm coming to you for advice. You know, I wrote a book about happiness, but I'm not always happy. I find my work to be extremely challenging. [00:35:32] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. [00:35:33] Mark Eiglarsh: Um, I do my best to not be tethered to the outcome of cases, but I am. You know, when I get a great outcome from a prosecutor, "Here, here's a great plea offer. You've worked for two years trying to get this. We're finally gonna give you, let's say, probation. Your client's not gonna be ass-raped in prison." They don't say that, but that's what I think. And I'm happy. Okay? Then there's times where it's just not going my way. And I get frustrated. Prosecutors aren't doing the right thing. Or I don't get the verdict I want. How do you handle that, Arthur? What's your key for happiness? [00:36:04] Speaker 5: I was blessed one day to be, just happened to be seated next to Joe Torrey of the New York Yankees when he was the manager winning, you know, four World Series. And I kind of asked him the question about dealing with the highs and the lows. And he said, "You just have to try to be as temperate as possible. Don't get too high with the highs and don't get too low with the lows. It's a lot easier said than done." But Mark, all three of us can say at the end of a case, we can all look at ourselves in the mirror and know we did everything we could. I mean, I got my heart broken last week for a kid. And, you know, I spoke to his mother and father. I said, "Look, if this was my own nephew, there's nothing more I could do." I pulled in every resource I had. I used every talent that I have. And, you know, this is, look, they started at 15. We got to five. Five still stinks, but it's a lot better than 15. But yeah, Mark, I didn't, I slept. And then when I woke up, it was the first thing I thought of. So you just, it's the same thing when I ran for city council and I lost by 108 votes. I woke up the next morning and I was like, look, Art, I talked to myself in the mirror. I'm like, look, bro, you went through four pairs of shoes, soles of shoes, knocking on all the doors. You sweated. You went to every block party. You lost so much weight. They were giving you Carvel milkshakes to bulk you up because you worked so hard. You know, that's it. You gave it your best. And that sometimes that's all you could do. I, you know, I do a little, I do some breathing and then I look around me and I count my blessings. Both of you know my parents. I just left them. My dad will be 88 on Sunday. My mom's 85. They're in a restaurant. They're talking to everybody. Even though we left the funeral, they're like loving life. And I just sit there and I, I appreciate the little things that I have. And sometimes I pinch myself knowing, you know, where I started and I struggled very much so academically. And where I am now getting to talk to Mark and John on this spectacular podcast. Beautiful. And I count my blessings. I love it. [00:37:57] Mark Eiglarsh: Gratitude. The antidote for stinking thinking. Sounds like you turned to, and you have a lot to be grateful for Arthur. [00:38:03] Jonna Spilboer: I think it's important to, to, so that everybody remembers, you know, what they see, like they see you having a great time and doing wonderful things and representing these high profile people, but it's not all, you know, wine and roses. It's not all sunshine all the time. And that happens to everybody, whether you're high profile, low profile, and you do. I, I think that was good advice that Joe Tori gave you. I do. And counting your blessings. Like every, I don't start my, I don't, my feet don't hit the floor before I give thanks for even the little stuff in my life. Okay. With that said, I have another question for you. What is one talent or pet peeve that you have that nobody knows about? [00:38:45] Speaker 5: When you say pet peeve, you mean what pisses other people off or what pisses me off? No. What pisses you off. [00:38:55] Jonna Spilboer: So it can either be a talent that nobody knows you have. Like, I don't know. Maybe you can. Make them answer both. [00:39:00] Speaker 5: I want to know both. I want to know both. Okay. So I, I, I guess the talent I have is I know how to just get things done. Like, and I don't just mean in the law. That's a talent. I hosted 50 people. Well, yeah, I hosted 50 people at my house on Father's Day. And yeah, it's a talent to be able to make like 15 different courses and make sure everyone's eating and make sure there's a drink and everyone. And just, and just running, just running everything. And there's someone else who was part of my extended family who is much more intelligent than I am. University of Pennsylvania, summa cum laude. And I literally asked him to hang up a kitchen clock. Johnny, you know what I'm talking about? Like a little kitchen clock. I go, here's a nail. The thing weighs an eighth of a pound. He's looking at this thing. He comes over. He goes, all right. I don't think this is the right hardware. I go, Doug, it's a, it's a kitchen clock. It was just like, there are people who are very intelligent. Right. There are people who are very intelligent who just don't know how to accomplish things. And, you know, if you listen to Kevin O'Leary, he's like, when you wake up in the morning, you should decide about three or five things that you want to make sure you accomplish before you go to bed. And I do more like 10 or 15 things, but I get things done. Boom, boom, boom. I'm very good at multitasking. I'm doing six things at once. Not like, not incredibly taxing things, but getting things done. My pet peeve is when I give someone an assignment, again, whether it's at my house in Long Island hanging a clock or it's a legal assignment. And like, did you call the client back? Well, no. I go, it's four o'clock, bro. I asked you to call back at 9:30. Don't tell me you didn't have eight minutes. And now with technology, like text them, email them. It takes 60 seconds. Stop it. Don't tell me you didn't have time. Helen Keller didn't have, at the same amount of time that we did. And she accomplished a lot. Like, let's go. You know, I don't like the wasting of the time. I don't like people just banging it out. One thing I learned from Rudy Giuliani, I am name dropping like a maniac here. I said, Mr. Mayor, what is the biggest thing you learned during your time in City Hall? And he said, DIN. You go, DIN? He goes, yup, do it now. When there's a task in front of you, there's a problem in front of you, just do it now. Bang it out. Get it out of the way. And I really took that to heart. And I do, I often do that. People are like, oh, can you do that? I was like, yeah, let me do it right now. Harvey Weinstein called me this morning. I need this letter sent on blah, blah, blah, blah. While he's on one phone, I'm using the other phone and I'm texting Diana. We really need to get the Weinstein letter out to the Hollywood Reporter about X, Y, and Z. DIN. Do it now. [00:41:35] Mark Eiglarsh: Nice. I like it. All right. Shifting complete gears in a different direction. What is your guilty pleasure TV show? [00:41:43] Speaker ?: Oh. [00:41:44] Speaker 5: Oh, "All in the Family." All in the Family. What? You still watch that? All in the Family. I mean, oh, my God. It is almost more relevant and topical and funny today than it was when it was the number one show for six years in the 70s. It's amazing how that show has aged. But you can't have that show today. No. [00:42:06] Jonna Spilboer: That show would not survive today. It's absolutely brilliant. [00:42:08] Speaker 5: The way he talks about the Italian, the Irish, the Jews, the Blacks, Sammy Davis Jr., the kids on the... I mean, it is... Edith was a brilliant... And obviously, the late Rob Reiner. I mean, it was brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. [00:42:21] Jonna Spilboer: If you knew you would never get caught, what crime would you commit? You would never get caught. [00:42:35] Speaker 5: You know, I guess it would be some sort of, you know, larceny, some sort of theft, you know? I knew it. Taking a bunch of gold bars. [00:42:46] Jonna Spilboer: Like baseball paraphernalia? Oh, okay. [00:42:48] Speaker 5: All right. Send kids to like, you know, if I had a lot of money, then... You know, my dad said to me today at lunch, you know, he sends one kid from his high school every year to Italy to study in Sicily for the summer. And my dad pays for the whole thing, which is fantastic. And he said to me at lunch, he goes, I wish I... He used to play the lottery all the time, not to feed our family, but he wanted to give the money away. And he's like, I wish I had hit the lottery. I would have sent the whole class to go study in Sicily. And, you know, I know this sounds a little like it, but it's true. Like, come on, guys. The three of us, like, we all have everything we need. Like, there's nothing that any of us need or our families need from our dogs to our children. So, like, if I had more, I would like to think of a way to make the world a little bit of a better place. So, if I was going to commit a crime, I'd commit a crime to achieve some more wealth. Not to put another story on my house or buy another car. I'd run that already. But to make the world a little bit of a better place. [00:43:46] Mark Eiglarsh: I'm the same way. I would love to come into that kind of money just to change the world. I'm amazed at some of these people who are, you know, multi-multi-multi-billionaires and how they're able to sleep at night without giving away a lot of that. [00:44:00] Speaker 5: Thank God, Mark. A lot of people do give a lot of away. John is thinking, I was just buying Louboutin out and I own the whole franchise and I'd be John Louboutin. Those are shoes for people who go with the red bottoms. [00:44:12] Jonna Spilboer: I think we all would want to give. I would want to steal -- this is my crime. I would want to steal, like, a slot machine, like one of those progressive slot machines. Have it in my house so that anybody could play it. You wouldn't have to put any money in it, but it would be tied into the system so at any time one of your guests could win millions and millions of dollars just for fun. I think that's what I would do. [00:44:31] Mark Eiglarsh: We have so many more questions, by the way, Arthur. But you know what I just thought about? Let's try this. We only have a couple of minutes left. Do you have any questions you wanted to ask us? We've been grilling you. Anything you want to know about? Sure. My dear Jonna or I? This wasn't -- this wasn't part of the game. It was not planned. No, that's okay. But I'm flipping it. [00:44:48] Speaker 5: No, I'm going to make this educational. Go hard on Jonna. Go hard on her. No, no, no. I'm going to -- well, I'm going to start with you, Aiglaj. Oh, shit. No, no, no. It's not -- I'm not asking you if you're going to cheat on your wife. Who are you going to do that with? Yeah. What I was going to ask you to educate myself, after you try a big case, and you know, towards the end, how do you prepare your summation? I actually write it. Is there a methodology? [00:45:16] Mark Eiglarsh: Is there something you do throughout, you know, every trial? Okay. So, first of all, I write it first. Because then I know where everything's going. Right? Before the trial starts. So, I write it. Yes. Before it starts, I don't necessarily write it out word for word. But I know exactly what I want to argue. And then all the witnesses and evidence that I need to be able to make those arguments to minimize the objections that I can't stand that they make. Assuming facts not in evidence. He's making up shit. It wasn't -- that was not what the evidence showed. So, that's what it is. I do it at the very beginning. That's my methodology. And you? [00:45:52] Speaker 5: And then during the trial, do you, like, keep, like, a notepad or some kind of spreadsheet? Like, okay, we got to mention that this witness said that at this point, and that witness said this at this point, to, like, tie -- you know, tie in those initial outline to your final product? Yes. [00:46:08] Mark Eiglarsh: I have to be detailed. With my memory, I forget everything. So, I have pages on each person. I take notes. I put quotations around what they say so that when it comes time for a closing argument, I say, again, rely upon your own memories. But I wrote down the following. The witness said -- and I'm giving it like it's gospel, because I'm going to be accurate. Okay. [00:46:28] Speaker 5: I have a question for Jonna. And, Jonna, I -- as you know, I refer cases to you. I know what a brilliant lawyer you are. So, if you will indulge me, I would like to ask you a non-legal question. Yes. But it is a serious one. A lawyer of your stature and your success with your law firm is so successful. When you walk into, like, a Bergdorf and Goodman or Saks Fifth Avenue, do you have, like, a financial limit? Like, when you're walking in there, like, look, let's not go crazy. We're not spending more than -- and you don't have to give me what the numbers are. I'm not spending more than X. I love it. Or are you like, hey, I worked my tail off. I've saved a hundred people's lives this week. I'm going in there, and I'm treating myself. And whatever it is, if I love that dress, if I love those shoes, if it's X amount or Y amount, I'm getting it. Great question. [00:47:20] Jonna Spilboer: So, first of all, I don't walk into any of the stores. I only shop online, number one. Really? Do you have to return a lot of things? I do. Sometimes I have to return things, but that doesn't matter. So here's the thing. I do not pay one bit of attention to the price. I pay attention to how having that thing is going to make me feel, which is actually a horrible way to go about it. Because, you know, I should probably -- therapy would be cheaper than doing it the way I do it. But I will say that I don't do that. So I don't just drop $5,000 on a bag once a week. But every once in a while, if I feel I deserve it or maybe I'm down or whatever, if it's going to make me feel good in the having of it and I can afford it, I buy it and I don't really think about the price. Nice. [00:48:13] Mark Eiglarsh: There you go. You deserve it, kid. Nice and easy. All right. We need to say goodbye to Arthur as much as I love hanging out with him. And if I'm lucky I'll see you both next week. Yeah. [00:48:22] Jonna Spilboer: He's got to go do his own right -- no, you didn't invite me. You guys didn't -- You were. [00:48:27] Speaker 5: You're invited to our lunch. I did so, Mark. Mark, you can write back the tape. I did so. I said let's have Johnna come down. We did. [00:48:33] Mark Eiglarsh: Arthur, I got your back on this. Johnna, you're invited. My wife will be there. We'll all go out. We're going to have a meal together. Lunch on Tuesday in New York City. Let's go. [00:48:41] Speaker 5: Thank you. Artie, we love you. It's a pleasure and an honor to be on with you guys. We miss you. Let's stay positive and let's stay legal. Yes. That's a great radio show. Let's do it. And by the way, is anyone going to tell Megyn Kelly that she was my hall pass? We're going to let that slide. [00:48:53] Mark Eiglarsh: You're damn right it's going to get back to her. Yes. [00:48:56] Speaker 5: I already texted her. I don't know how Doug is going to feel about this. [00:49:00] Mark Eiglarsh: He'll be flattered. All right, Arthur. We love you. Thank you, buddy. [00:49:04] Jonna Spilboer: Thanks, guys. We had to say goodbye to Arthur, but there's more Positively Legal coming up when we come back. One of my favorite segments when we go off the record. Don't go anywhere. [00:49:22] Mark Eiglarsh: Welcome back to Positively Legal. And we're going to go off the record, which is one of my favorite segments. But before we do, we got to talk about this case out of Brazil. And this is really hard to look at. Okay. There is a 21-year-old woman, Maria Eduardo Rodriguez de Fritas. She, it wasn't bungee jumping. It's what they call rope jumping. The difference is one's with a bungee and the other ones with rope. But the significance, the reason why I make the distinction is one is heavily regulated. Bungie is, and there's specific rules and stuff. Rope, pretty new, not regulated, and people are just doing it and making a lot of money. And there are folks down there in Brazil who agreed to do what this 21-year-old adventure-seeking gal wanted to do. And that is to hold her hands out like this, lift her up, and then throw her off the cliff and let her get that experience. The problem is she wasn't attached. Let's take a look at the clip and we'll talk about it. Horrible, Jonna. Jonna, 130 feet down. And then this got me. I don't know if it matters to anybody, but it does to me. There was a nurse on site, and apparently this woman was still alive after the fall. And the nurse was trying to nurse her back to health, and it didn't work. [00:51:13] Jonna Spilboer: Yeah, you can't survive that big of a fall. But, you know, another couple-- some things about this case. People have been charged criminally with her death, which I actually support. And then I recently read an update to this report is that she had the GoPro camera on her and that somebody stole it, I guess, to maybe tamper with evidence in a case like that. And before we go on, Mark, I haven't studied the difference between the bungee and the rope so much, but the idea behind the rope, I mean, you don't bounce back up. Right. If you're doing it correctly, you just-- you fall and that's it. It's kind of like-- [00:51:52] Mark Eiglarsh: And then it's like a big swing. It's a big swing. I mean, just picture yourself dangling from a rope 130 feet. Whee! Back and forth, as opposed to the bouncing up and down. I don't get either of them. I wouldn't do it, especially with what we're seeing here. [00:52:04] Jonna Spilboer: That's going on my next list of-- next time we cross somebody, I'm going to put that on. Like, what-- would you rather bungee jump or skydive or nothing above? [00:52:14] Mark Eiglarsh: So these guys who are involved, they're in jail being held on the charge of intentional murder. Like, they're charging them-- because if it was anything other, I heard a legal expert from there say, they would be released. But they charge them with, like, intentional murder. I don't get that. I don't know that it was intentional. You see the rope on the ground. They just-- it was gross negligence. I mean, it's horrible. Very gross negligence. And they should pay for what they did. I don't know if it's intentional, though. [00:52:45] Jonna Spilboer: Well, and that's interesting, because I don't know what the system of jurisprudence is in Brazil. But if I have no problem with these guys being overcharged initially, and if the facts shake out and they get out eventually, because this kind of thing, Mark, can't happen again. You cannot be that grossly negligent with people's lives. Agreed. [00:53:04] Mark Eiglarsh: All right. I'm ready for your rant. You ready, girl? [00:53:07] Jonna Spilboer: All right, I'm ready. [00:53:08] Mark Eiglarsh: You want me to go first? I'm ready. Let's go. Tee it up. Go. [00:53:13] Speaker ?: Here we go. [00:53:14] Jonna Spilboer: Ladies and gentlemen, Jonah Spielberg. Listen, I have absolutely no problem with people donating money to a criminal defendant. It's America. Donate. It's your money. I do have a problem with what happens after the donations are collected, because there's a difference between supporting a legal defense and turning sympathy into a slush fund. In case you need a reminder, who we talked about earlier, convicted killer Carmelo Anthony, the Texas teen who fatally stabbed another teen, Austin Metcalf, in the heart at a track meet with a knife he brought to the event. Why? Raised more than, wait for it, $600,000 on the crowdfunding platform Give, Send, Go, ostensibly to assist with his defense. The public was told his family needed help due to the serious charges their son was facing. People opened their wallets. They donated out of sympathy, outrage, politics, whatever their reasons, smart or stupid, the cash rolled in. But did they read the fine print? A 17-year-old boy is dead. A jury has spoken. He was murdered. And while Austin Metcalf now lives in a cemetery, his killer's parents may be angling for a spot on cribs. Because get this, they used the donations to get themselves a nice house, while their son just got sentenced to three decades in the big house. Can we at least admit how disgusting this looks? Stand in the shoes of Austin's parents for a sec. Your son is gone forever, but don't worry. Carmelo's parents used the donations to secure a little luxury. How is that not a punch in the gut? If you listen to the Give, Send, Go founder talk about it, he'll say the fine print allowed the funds to be used to help the family, quote, relocate. I don't give a shit what the fine print said. You know why? Because nobody reads the fine print. And even if they did, where does it say your generous donations may be used to propel a murderous family into a higher tax bracket? And here's the part that really sends me over the edge. The appeal he plans to file? Mommy and daddy aren't footing the bill. Taxpayers are. Even if the fine print condones it, I don't. It's theft of generosity. Legally, maybe that's allowed. Morally, it's fucking outrageous. If the money was raised because of the criminal case, then use it for the criminal case. Use it for the lawyers. Use it for the experts. Use it for the transcripts and the appeals. And then give us an accounting. Let the donating public see where their dollars went. Hey, Donor657, your hundred bucks went toward buying Carmelo's mother a designer purse. Thanks for your generosity. Tragic. Although the real tragedy is that a teenager lost his life. Does anyone know how the Metcalfs paid for the funeral? A second tragedy is that we're treating a six-figure fundraising windfall as though it's perfectly normal. It's not normal. It's offensive. Justice is supposed to be blind. We are not supposed to be blind to it. One family lost a son. The other family won a prize. I'll be honest. This isn't my only problem with these crowdfunding platforms. But especially in this case, give, send, go should go away. Drop the mic right there. [00:56:56] Mark Eiglarsh: Wow. Heavy. [00:56:58] Jonna Spilboer: Heavy. [00:56:59] Mark Eiglarsh: Nicely done. Passion oozing. [00:57:02] Jonna Spilboer: I apologize for the heaviness, but it needed to be said. [00:57:06] Mark Eiglarsh: No. Excellent job, Jonna. Okay. For mine. Here we go. This week, I've chosen to rant about things that annoy me. And I figured, all right, let's do a top 10 list. Not that these are the only things that annoy me, but these are the first 10 things that I came up with. Here we go. Yeah, it'd be good. Number one, people who watch videos on their phones without headphones. I don't want to hear your stinking TikTok. Hey, guys. Hey, guys. Wear headphones. Number two, annoying people in the theater. I didn't just say movie theater because my wife and I go to the live theater and it's everywhere. People on their phones with their bright phone screens. Take the Twizzlers out of the bag. It's so loud and crinkly and annoying. Number three, the person who stands up the second the airplane lands. Where are you going? You think that by standing up, they're going to open up the door quicker? Relax. Number four, people who say, I know my rights. No, you don't. Those are the ones who are most likely to get arrested. Number five, producers of true crime documentaries who take one episode and stretch it to make it three to six. I got, I got not enough time to watch B roll all day long. Let's go get to the point. Stop stretching it out. Six, those who hit reply all when there's no reason to. I don't need any more emails. Number seven, people who don't apologize when they should. In all seriousness, this really bothers me. You know you're wrong. Have the decency to admit it. It's not weakness. It's admirable. Number eight, to my pickleball players out there. Fellow pickleball players. Those who call balls out when you know they're in. Come on, man. Nobody likes a cheater, especially concerning a game involving a wiffle ball. Number nine, people who say long story short and then make it longer. And finally, number 10, at the gym. People who are sitting on a machine that I need to get on scrolling on their phones, looking at their Instagram. I'm looking. I'm looking at what they're looking at. Okay? There's no emergency there. Those are the same people who ain't wiping down the equipment, leaving it disgusting. And do not get me started on those guys who drop weights like they're auditioning for a superhero movie. Okay? Put them down gently. All right. Those are my top 10 for this week. And all I'm saying, okay, is if you do these, any of these things, please consider not doing them. Thank you. [01:00:16] Jonna Spilboer: I'm not going to call you out because that was funny and I loved it. And I could think of a hundred more. [01:00:21] Mark Eiglarsh: Me too. [01:00:22] Jonna Spilboer: But I'm pretty sure you do number six. Which one is that? You reply all. You reply all, Mark. [01:00:28] Mark Eiglarsh: Well, when it's necessary. I don't know. [01:00:31] Jonna Spilboer: When it's appropriate. [01:00:32] Mark Eiglarsh: Check my email. [01:00:34] Jonna Spilboer: Okay. No, that was good. That was good. Well done. [01:00:39] Mark Eiglarsh: Good show, Jonna. Good show today. I enjoyed this. Arthur. Always fun. Our friend. [01:00:45] Jonna Spilboer: Yeah. Good stuff. Yeah. And next week though, so our listeners know and our viewers know, we're going to be together in studio. In New York. [01:00:56] Mark Eiglarsh: Yeah. Like we talked about. That's going to be super cool. That'll be a special show. Listen. Thank you, Jonna. Sincerely, I always am privileged to spend time with you. I'm extremely grateful. Ditto. Thank you to Arthur for taking the time out of his busy schedule. And we look forward to seeing you next Wednesday. We record these things on Tuesday, a little secret. And then Wednesday, we release it. And we look forward to seeing you then. Thank you. And I hope you all choose to have a wonderful week.