JUST IN: Tyler Robinson's Attorney Grills Kirk Killing Investigator Over Moment Of Kirk's Killing

[00:00:00] Kathy Nestor: May I please the cord? Thank you. Good afternoon, Agent Hall. Good morning. You and I have met before, but just to remind you, my name is Kathy Nestor. I'm one of the attorneys representing Mr. Robinson. So when did you leave the SBI? [00:00:19] Speaker 2: The State Bureau of Investigations? Yes. March of this year. [00:00:23] Kathy Nestor: March of this year? [00:00:24] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:00:24] Kathy Nestor: So you were involved in this investigation from September to March, basically. [00:00:30] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:00:31] Kathy Nestor: And your new position at Post, what is your new position? [00:00:34] Speaker 2: I'm an investigative sergeant. [00:00:36] Kathy Nestor: So you investigate potential wrongdoing of police officers? [00:00:40] Speaker 2: Correct. [00:00:41] Kathy Nestor: Okay. So when you were first brought into this case in September, is it my understanding from your testimony that you were not engaged in any way with this event prior to getting a call after the shooting? Is that correct? [00:00:59] Speaker ?: Correct. [00:00:59] Kathy Nestor: Does the SBI on occasion assist other agencies with preparing for big events like this or not? Is that not typically something you do? [00:01:09] Speaker 2: Not something that I've ever been involved with, no. [00:01:12] Kathy Nestor: Okay. And what time did you arrive on campus that day? [00:01:19] Speaker 2: I believe it was shortly after 1.30. [00:01:22] Kathy Nestor: So approximately an hour after Mr. Kirk had already been removed from the… [00:01:29] Speaker 2: Approximately, yes. Okay. [00:01:31] Kathy Nestor: And were you involved in putting up any drones into the air? Were you part of that or were you not involved? [00:01:44] Speaker 3: No, no, no. [00:01:44] Kathy Nestor: So how quickly after you arrived on scene did you become aware that you were actually going to be in charge of the scene? [00:01:54] Speaker 2: I believe it was approximately an hour after, so what would have been approximately 2.30. [00:01:59] Kathy Nestor: So for the first two hours you were not in charge? [00:02:04] Speaker 2: No. [00:02:05] Speaker ?: No. [00:02:05] Speaker 2: No. No. No. No. [00:02:09] Kathy Nestor: No. Okay. And once you came from on high that you were basically going to be in charge of the scene, what was the, what was your first priority? What were you focused on? [00:02:20] Speaker 2: Well, we were focused on through our major crimes team and our lieutenant putting together an investigative team and developing initial assignments and a plan as to what we were going to do moving forward. [00:02:33] Kathy Nestor: And part of that is protecting any potential forensic evidence that may be found on the scene. That's clearly important, right? [00:02:41] Speaker 2: Correct. [00:02:41] Kathy Nestor: Preserving the scene, right? Correct. But it sounds like that's not really your area, that was more maybe Agent Faumina's area? [00:02:51] Speaker 2: Agent Faumina was assigned to process and document the crime scenes, was my understanding that the known scenes at that time amid the chaos had been contained and had been secured by the on, the on-campus officers who were already on scene. [00:03:09] Kathy Nestor: And what's your understanding of what the known scenes were? In other words, the area where there might potentially be evidence that you needed to process. [00:03:16] Speaker 2: I know that the amphitheater area was, was cordoned off and managed as best it could with the, with the number of people that were there. I was also made aware that there was a rooftop area that had been secured and also an area off of the side of that building that had been secured by an officer. [00:03:31] Kathy Nestor: And that building was the Loci building? [00:03:34] Speaker ?: Correct. [00:03:34] Kathy Nestor: Wasn't there also a bullet found on another building? [00:03:38] Speaker 2: I believe an unfired bullet had been found on another building at some point during my time there on September 10th. Yes. [00:03:47] Kathy Nestor: Which building was that, sir? [00:03:48] Speaker 2: I don't recall. [00:03:49] Kathy Nestor: Was that considered a scene that it was worth preserving? [00:03:53] Speaker 2: It was not. My recollection is that that was accounted for as an ejected cartridge from an officer who had cycled his rifle. [00:04:02] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:04:03] Kathy Nestor: I thought you said it was a unfired bullet and now you're saying it was a cartridge? That's correct. [00:04:09] Speaker 2: When, when a weapon is cleared, an officer would make his rifle ready, which would chamber around. Oh, I got you. My understanding was that that's how that was accounted for. [00:04:20] Kathy Nestor: So an officer claimed that that bullet belonged to him or her? [00:04:24] Speaker 2: That's my recollection is that that was how it was accounted for. [00:04:28] Kathy Nestor: And when, when was that accounted for? [00:04:30] Speaker 2: I don't know specifically. [00:04:31] Kathy Nestor: Do you remember what type of bullet that was? [00:04:34] Speaker 2: I don't. [00:04:35] Kathy Nestor: Was it a 30 odd six? Do you remember? [00:04:37] Speaker 2: I don't. [00:04:38] Kathy Nestor: I don't. Okay. Do you know where that bullet is now? [00:04:41] Speaker 2: I don't. [00:04:42] Kathy Nestor: Okay. So you had the amphitheater area that had to be preserved. And how far out did that stretch? The entire amphitheater or just the area around the tent or what? [00:04:56] Speaker 2: My understanding was the entire amphitheater area was cordoned off and there were attempts to secure the campus itself with a perimeter of officers who were monitoring or preventing people coming and going. [00:05:08] Kathy Nestor: When you arrived on the scene, were you aware that an individual had been taken into custody? [00:05:13] Speaker 2: I had heard that. Yes. [00:05:16] Kathy Nestor: Did you ever have any interaction with that individual? [00:05:18] Speaker 2: I did not. [00:05:20] Kathy Nestor: And were you advised at any point that that person was no longer a person of interest? [00:05:27] Speaker 2: Information was passed down that the individual was not considered to be a suspect in the shooting. [00:05:32] Kathy Nestor: And when was that time-wise? [00:05:33] Speaker 2: I don't recall specifically, but I know I was on campus when I had. [00:05:37] Kathy Nestor: So whoever arrested him as a potential suspect got that wrong. He wasn't the actual suspect, right? [00:05:45] Speaker 2: So he got what wrong? [00:05:47] Kathy Nestor: That he was the shooter. [00:05:49] Speaker 2: The person I believe to be the shooter was not the individual who was taken into custody. Correct. [00:05:53] Kathy Nestor: And then was there anybody else taken into custody as a person of interest? [00:05:56] Speaker 2: There were several people who were detained for questioning and who were interviewed throughout the investigation. [00:06:04] Kathy Nestor: And none of those people were ultimately, they were all ultimately cleared by you or somebody connected with you? [00:06:10] Speaker 2: Correct. [00:06:11] Kathy Nestor: And were there any other guns confiscated on the scene that day? [00:06:16] Speaker 2: There were other firearms that were located on the scene, yes. [00:06:19] Kathy Nestor: How many guns were confiscated that day? [00:06:22] Speaker 2: I don't know specifically confiscated, but I know that there was a firearm found in a backpack that was accounted for during the day. [00:06:30] Kathy Nestor: What type of firearm was that? [00:06:32] Speaker 2: It was a handgun. [00:06:33] Kathy Nestor: Any other guns that were found on the scene? [00:06:36] Speaker 2: Not that I recall. [00:06:42] Kathy Nestor: Do you recall an individual named Noah Gonzalez being interviewed? [00:06:50] Speaker 2: I don't recall that name specifically. [00:06:53] Kathy Nestor: Let me see if it refreshes your memory that he was an off-duty, I think maybe trooper that was on the scene that day and that was involved in recovering the holster. Is that a freshman? [00:07:03] Speaker ?: Is that a freshman? [00:07:04] Speaker 2: I know that a trooper was interviewed having been on scene. I don't recall if it was Gonzalez. I don't recall the name, but I do know there was a trooper that was interviewed, yes. [00:07:13] Kathy Nestor: Okay. Okay. And just a moment, Your Honor. And do you recall the trooper that was interviewed saying that there was actually a gun found in that holster? I do not. [00:07:27] Speaker ?: Do you recall that holster? [00:07:27] Speaker 2: I do not. [00:07:28] Kathy Nestor: You do not? No. [00:07:30] Speaker ?: Okay. Okay. Okay. [00:07:33] Kathy Nestor: Can we pull up exhibit poll 13 and just show it only to the witness for right now? Okay. Okay. [00:07:54] Speaker ?: Okay. Okay. Okay. All right. Can we go to page two of that report? Okay. All right. Can we go to page two of that report? Do you recognize this report? Have you reviewed it as part of the report? Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. All right. [00:08:11] Kathy Nestor: Can we go to page two of that report? Do you recognize this report? Have you reviewed it as part of your investigation duties? [00:08:33] Speaker 2: I do recognize the report now, yes. [00:08:35] Kathy Nestor: Okay. And this is a report prepared by actually Mr. Davis who's going to testify later in this matter. Is that right? Correct. [00:08:46] Speaker 2: Okay. [00:08:47] Kathy Nestor: And on page two, this is the interview of Noah Gonzalez. Is that right? [00:08:51] Speaker 2: That's what it stated on page one, yes. [00:08:55] Kathy Nestor: And he's an off-duty trooper who happened to be there that day? [00:08:58] Speaker 2: Correct. [00:08:59] Kathy Nestor: And do you see on the second paragraph, does that refresh your memory about whether Trooper Gonzalez believed there was a gun found in a holster in that area of the amphitheater? [00:09:12] Speaker 2: Trooper Gonzalez included in his report that there was a gun, yes. Okay. [00:09:18] Kathy Nestor: Okay. [00:09:19] Speaker ?: Thank you. Okay. [00:09:21] Kathy Nestor: When did you first personally go up to the roof of the Loci building? [00:09:26] Speaker ?: Do you remember the time of that? I don't recall. [00:09:27] Kathy Nestor: I know it was dark when I went up to the roof, so it would have been later that evening. And at the time you went up there, there was already crime scene tape that had been placed around it? There was. There was. There was. There was. [00:09:41] Speaker ?: There was an officer standing security. [00:09:42] Speaker 2: Great. I know it was it was dark when I went up to the roof so it would have been later that evening. [00:09:47] Kathy Nestor: And at the time you went up there there was already crime scene tape that had been placed around it. [00:09:53] Speaker 2: There was there was an officer standing security. [00:09:56] Kathy Nestor: Right. And to your knowledge as the head of the investigation did they ever find any bullets or casings anywhere on the low C roof. [00:10:06] Speaker 2: Not to my knowledge. [00:10:07] Kathy Nestor: Did they ever find any bullets or casings anywhere around the low C building. [00:10:13] Speaker 2: When you say around the low C building you mean how close like immediately around the low C building. Correct. Not to my knowledge no. [00:10:20] Kathy Nestor: Okay. And then you've been talking a lot about a timeline here that seemed you talked about it when you were watching the video but you also talked about the fact that you developed a timeline is that right. Correct. And can you pull up hole one please. I'm pulling up on your screen your your report that you prepared. Do you recognize that. [00:10:49] Speaker 2: I do yes. [00:10:50] Kathy Nestor: And what's the date that you drafted that report. [00:10:55] Speaker 2: It looks like September 14th. It says date created. [00:10:58] Kathy Nestor: And that's the place where if you could go to page two please. Do you see down at the bottom where you summarize Sergeant Bricker's report listing the timeline. [00:11:12] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:11:13] Kathy Nestor: Okay. And so it was actually Sergeant Bricker that prepared the timeline is that right. [00:11:18] Speaker 2: He prepared a timeline. [00:11:21] Kathy Nestor: And you incorporated that into your report. [00:11:24] Speaker 2: No I created a timeline. [00:11:26] Kathy Nestor: You created your own timeline. Yes. Separate from the one that's in this report. [00:11:30] Speaker 2: Yes using using information obtained in the investigation. [00:11:33] Kathy Nestor: And when did you create that timeline. [00:11:36] Speaker 2: Over the course of the investigation over over a long period of time after a lot of reviewing video and investigative time. [00:11:48] Kathy Nestor: So as of September 14th. Tyler Robinson had already turned himself into the authorities is that right. [00:11:57] Speaker 2: Yes I believe he turned himself in on September 11th. [00:12:00] Kathy Nestor: So prior to the time that Tyler Robinson turned himself in had you all prepared a timeline. [00:12:06] Speaker 2: A documented written timeline. Yes. Not to my knowledge. I don't know when Sergeant Bricker produced his specifically. [00:12:15] Kathy Nestor: And isn't it fair to say that as of the moment that Tyler Robinson voluntarily surrendered to authorities in Washington County. As of that moment you all did not know who the shooter was. Is that right. [00:12:31] Speaker 2: We had identified a person of interest but we did not specifically know who the shooter was at that time. Okay. [00:12:41] Kathy Nestor: And you became aware that Mr. Robinson was voluntarily surrendering how. How did you become aware of that. [00:12:48] Speaker 2: That information came originally I believe from the Washington County Sheriff. To the administration. The. The control center at the university on the evening of the investigation. Okay. Or the second evening of the investigation. Okay. [00:13:03] Kathy Nestor: We're going to get back to that in a minute but I just wanted to get the timeline down. Okay. All right. Now I want to go back to the videos that we've seen and the. Question that I just asked before which is is it fair to say that nothing. About the video of the individual on the roof. Revealed to you. You couldn't see facial features. You couldn't see what they were wearing. Correct. Of the individual on the roof. [00:13:27] Speaker 2: Correct. I know that there was a meeting to discuss perhaps a pattern on the front of the shirt that was observed when the individual was jumping off of the roof. [00:13:36] Kathy Nestor: Okay. That's fair. But at that time as of the 11th before Mr. Robinson turned himself in you all had not. Been able to determine that is that right. [00:13:45] Speaker 2: Excuse me. Determine who he was or determine distinguishing features. [00:13:50] Kathy Nestor: Determine distinguishing features. Yeah. The person on the roof. [00:13:54] Speaker 2: Yes. He had a person of interest and those images were released to the press. [00:13:58] Kathy Nestor: You're talking about the ones in the stairwell from the. Correct. From the parking garage. Correct. But the video on the roof was not distinguishable. Fair. [00:14:08] Speaker 2: That video was a standalone. Yes. It was not. [00:14:11] Kathy Nestor: No. [00:14:12] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:14:13] Kathy Nestor: And in fact the video on the roof. Well strike that. [00:14:20] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:14:21] Kathy Nestor: Is it true that you had. Some spectators that you interviewed that had gotten a photograph a few seconds before the shooting of someone on the roof. [00:14:33] Speaker ?: Sorry. [00:14:34] Speaker 2: I'm not sure I understand the question. [00:14:37] Kathy Nestor: Did you at some point in your investigation collect from two young men who were present at the event a video that they had taken of someone on the roof about 10 seconds before the shooting. [00:14:49] Speaker 2: Yes. A video. Yes. Not photographs. A video was collected from an individual who had a video. [00:14:55] Kathy Nestor: And ultimately some screenshots were taken out of that video. Is that right. By. [00:15:00] Speaker 2: By you. [00:15:01] Kathy Nestor: Not by me. [00:15:02] Speaker ?: No. [00:15:03] Speaker 2: Okay. [00:15:04] Kathy Nestor: That's fine. It could have been someone else. Okay. But did you see the video that those young men took. [00:15:10] Speaker 2: If you're referring to the video that is looking north and shows an individual dressed in dark clothing on the corner of the roof. Yes. If that is the video I have seen that video. [00:15:20] Kathy Nestor: Yes. Did you review the interview of those young men. [00:15:23] Speaker 2: I did not. [00:15:24] Kathy Nestor: Do you know what they how they described the person on the roof. [00:15:28] Speaker 2: I don't know if I read it or if I heard it but my understanding was they believed it was overwatch or some kind of a police overwatch for the event. [00:15:36] Kathy Nestor: Okay. [00:15:37] Speaker 2: If that's my recollection. [00:15:38] Kathy Nestor: And do you remember anything specific about the person's build that they discussed when they described the person on the roof. [00:15:45] Speaker 2: I do not know. [00:15:46] Kathy Nestor: Okay. There is a portion of the video after the individual jumped off the roof which we all saw here. Where the individual crosses I believe it's campus drive. Is that right. Correct. And there's a moment where the individual waits and there's two cars that pass in front of him right in front of him. Correct. And is this the moment where you are submitting that he was holding a gun in his hand. As across the road. Yes. [00:16:22] Speaker 2: I from my observations would show that he's carrying an object in his hand that's concealed or in a bag and it is long and has the appearance based on my training and experience it could be a firearm. [00:16:35] Kathy Nestor: But do you see a gun anywhere. The actual gun. [00:16:38] Speaker 2: In the video. [00:16:39] Kathy Nestor: Yeah. All right. And did anybody that was driving by on campus drive that day report to you or any other investigator entity. Hey, we just drove by a guy with a gun who was leaving campus and he was standing right by my car. [00:16:52] Speaker 2: We did not receive any reports to that effect. No. [00:16:55] Kathy Nestor: Okay. Also when you were revealing the timeline. Exactly how long was there between when the person was prone on the roof and when the shot was taken. Do you recall. [00:17:10] Speaker 2: If you if you would like to replay the video I can time it for you. But I don't recall. It was my guess. My guess. I would estimate between 15 and 30 seconds. [00:17:21] Kathy Nestor: So between 15 and 30 seconds to lay flat take a shot and get up and run off. Right. [00:17:29] Speaker 2: I think you asked how long he was prone. Right. I think it took longer for him to crawl into position. [00:17:36] Kathy Nestor: Okay. [00:17:37] Speaker 2: And then establish a position. Okay. And then take the shot. He appeared to be in prone for approximately 15 to 30 seconds but the video would verify [00:17:45] Kathy Nestor: that. Okay. [00:17:47] Speaker ?: Thank you. [00:17:48] Kathy Nestor: All right. I want to talk to you for just a minute about the video that was taken. And I'm not going to get into the. I'm not going to show it just so in case anybody's concerned about leaving the courtroom. I'm not going to show it. But there was a video that was taken by Mr. Ty Phillips. From behind the individual that was speaking to Mr. Kirk. [00:18:21] Speaker 2: Correct. [00:18:22] Kathy Nestor: And it showed like a dead on view of Mr. Kirk and his parts of his security team. Is that right? And then you also have video that you described that shows the back of the tent at the moment the shot happened. Is that right? Behind Mr. Kirk. Behind Mr. Kirk. [00:18:42] Speaker 2: You're referring to the UVU video in the breezeway? [00:18:44] Kathy Nestor: Yes. [00:18:45] Speaker 2: We have that video. [00:18:46] Kathy Nestor: Yes. Okay. And can we pull up the last video of the last clip. 49. I want to show you just you this clip. That is a little clip from that video under the breezeway that's behind the tent. Right? Correct. And just to be clear this area behind the tent would not have been visible to anybody that was on the low C building. Is that fair? I can't answer that question. [00:19:16] Speaker ?: Yeah, sure. [00:19:16] Speaker 3: And Ms. Nestor, as you're playing this, are you just being cognizant if the sound is on or not? [00:19:42] Kathy Nestor: I don't want the sound. Okay. I just wanted to clarify. Thank you for bringing that. Thank you. All right. No sound. I just want only the witness to look at it. So can you just watch this clip for just a minute? This one little clip of behind the breezeway at the time of the shot. [00:19:56] Speaker 3: That's fine. And so just as a reminder to all the parties, if it's on your monitor, please be cognizant of that. It will not be displayed on the main monitor. Ms. Nestor, you may proceed. Thank you. [00:20:09] Kathy Nestor: Is it playing? [00:20:12] Speaker ?: Okay. Do you remember that? Does that refresh your memory of what's in that clip? Yes. [00:20:16] Kathy Nestor: And having reviewed that, at the time the shot was fired, there was no one standing directly behind the tent. Is that correct? [00:20:35] Speaker 2: You'd have to show me it again. I wasn't specifically looking for that. [00:20:40] Kathy Nestor: Okay. [00:20:41] Speaker 2: But I can answer that question if I can view the video again. [00:20:44] Kathy Nestor: Okay. And just before you do that, I think you testified before that Mr. Kirk would have been dead center behind that banner. Is that right? [00:20:52] Speaker 2: Approximately. [00:20:53] Kathy Nestor: Okay. So what I'm asking is if anyone behind that banner, dead center behind Mr. Kirk, if there was any people standing there. Go ahead. [00:21:02] Speaker 2: There's a videographer on the right side of the tent. And then I can only see as far as the video allows me to, so I can't speak to whether there's anybody out of frame who could have been behind the tent. [00:21:22] Kathy Nestor: But what you can see, is there anyone directly behind the middle of the tent? [00:21:26] Speaker 2: Yes. There's a videographer stood behind the tent. [00:21:28] Kathy Nestor: To the right? [00:21:29] Speaker 2: Yes, behind the tent. [00:21:31] Kathy Nestor: Correct. But directly in the middle of the tent, is there anyone standing? [00:21:35] Speaker 2: There's no one stood in the middle behind the tent. [00:21:37] Kathy Nestor: No. [00:21:38] Speaker ?: Thank you. [00:21:41] Kathy Nestor: All right. I want to talk now about the TP. You can take it down off of the screen. Thank you. I want to talk now about the TP USA video that you got. That was the angle that was taken from behind Mr. Kirk while he was talking, looking out at the audience during when the shot was fired. Do you remember that video? [00:22:00] Speaker 2: The visual impulse videos? Yes. Yes. [00:22:03] Kathy Nestor: All right. Is it true that visual impulse provided four videos? Yeah. [00:22:08] Speaker 2: I believe there were four total videos that encompassed everything that they provided to us. Yes. [00:22:14] Kathy Nestor: But the one that you showed, that's only one of the four that they provided to you? [00:22:19] Speaker 2: That one that was shown had a Bates number. It was an item that was provided by Utah County Attorney's Office. [00:22:26] Kathy Nestor: Okay. But were there more that you haven't seen in this courtroom in this prelim that you got? [00:22:32] Speaker 2: There's the original footage. [00:22:34] Kathy Nestor: Okay. But were there other angles that are not shown here in this prelim? Yes. Okay. That's what I was trying to get to. Thank you.