'Just because it's unusual, doesn't mean it's illegal' - Sen. Alan Cayetano — GMA News

[0:00] Good morning, Madam Witness. Welcome to the Senate. [0:03] Good morning. [0:04] Most of my questions are asked by Senator Irwin. [0:09] I'd just like to ask, [0:11] but you're familiar with the concept of confidential or discretionary funds? [0:18] Or not? [0:19] In government parlance? [0:21] No. [0:21] You don't know. [0:22] Okay. [0:22] Because if you're not familiar, [0:26] whether that agency has 50 million discretionary funds [0:29] or let's say if you were the manager sa OP [0:33] and they had, I don't know how much now, 10 billion, [0:36] you won't find it unusual kung 500 million, 250, 1 billion. [0:43] Kasi nga, usual means parate. [0:45] Unusual means, bakit ganito kalake, no? [0:48] Because when I was in the DFA, [0:50] there was a big storm [0:52] and I've never dealt with land bank directly [0:57] except for my personal account [0:59] as the DFA secretary. [1:03] But the president asked us, [1:05] what can each agency do? [1:07] So my staff then, si Yusek Arreola said, [1:10] sir, maraming ma-stastak sa mga ports, [1:14] airport at seaport. [1:17] May isa tayong fund. [1:19] Kung OFW sila, pwede tayong magbigay. [1:21] So I think we had to withdraw 50 or 100 million. [1:25] At sinabi ng branch manager wala. [1:28] And then it was a Friday. [1:30] So I had to call the president of land bank and say, [1:33] sir, mga-stranded hindi. [1:36] And then they sent over 50 or 100 million. [1:39] So my point is, just because it's unusual, [1:42] it doesn't mean it's illegal or whatever. [1:46] Tama po ba? [1:47] Wala naman pong illegal doon sa encashment po. [1:51] Because nga, may difference when it's a private account. [1:54] So it's a private account and they don't usually, [1:57] let's say, someone has a private account commercial [2:00] or private, meaning business or personal niya, [2:04] they always withdraw 50,000, 100,000. [2:07] This is theoretical, ha? [2:07] So hindi ito covered ng bank secrecy law. [2:10] Suddenly, mag-withdraw ng 3 million, [2:13] minsan nagtatanong, di ba? [2:14] They'll know your customer, di ba? [2:16] Ganon din sa deposit. [2:17] I'll just finish this time. [2:18] Ganon din sa deposit, di ba? [2:20] So kung sweldo ko 30,000, [2:22] every time nagde-deposit ako 30,000, [2:24] biglang magde-deposit ako 2 million, [2:26] tatanongin ako, sir, saan galing ito? [2:28] Right? [2:28] Pero pag government, [2:30] as long as you're dealing with the people you identified with, [2:33] so whether that's DPWH, [2:35] whether that's DOTR, [2:38] basta't everything's in order, [2:40] magtataka ka lang pag sobrang laki ng amount, [2:42] but then you'll release it. [2:45] Kindly wind up. [2:46] Yeah, that's all. [2:47] Thank you. [2:47] I was just clarifying that point. [2:49] Thank you, Senator Judge Allen. [2:50] Senator Judge Risa Antevares is recognized. [2:55] You may proceed, ma'am. [2:56] When you're ready, you have two minutes. [3:05] Salamat po, Mr. Presiding Officer. [3:08] Madam Witness, [3:09] iyong 32 years niyo po na sinabi sa banking industry, [3:15] dun po ba lahat ay sa land bank lamang? [3:18] Opo. [3:18] Okay. [3:20] And then, [3:21] sabi niyo po, [3:22] unusual. [3:24] Unusual yung withdrawals na ito. [3:26] Sa 32 years niyo po, [3:28] sa banking industry, [3:30] sa land bank, [3:31] nakakita na po ba kayo [3:32] ng ganyang kalaking amount na withdrawal [3:35] ever before? [3:37] First time po. [3:38] First time. [3:39] Okay. [3:40] Sabi niyo nga kanina, [3:45] unusual yung amount. [3:47] First time, [3:47] may ganyang amount na [3:49] 125 million pesos. [3:54] Bakit niyo sinabing unusual? [3:56] Ano yung floor niyo [3:57] para sabihin unusual yung isang amount? [4:02] Usually po kasi, [4:03] kaya naging unusual pa sa akin, [4:05] kasi cash po siyang kinukuha. [4:06] Sa other, [4:08] ano naman po, [4:08] kumbaga nag-issue po sila [4:10] ng mga cheque sa, [4:11] yung disbursement po nila. [4:14] By checks po, [4:15] hindi po cash. [4:16] Okay. [4:17] So, hindi lang yung [4:19] laki nung halaga [4:21] na 125 million [4:22] ang unusual, [4:24] unusual din [4:25] na yung ganyang [4:26] unusual amount [4:28] ay sa cash kinuha [4:30] at hindi sa mga cheque. [4:31] Opo. [4:32] Okay. [4:33] And, [4:34] yung 125 million, [4:36] yun ba yung minimum [4:37] na pag kinuha in cash, [4:39] sasabihin nyo [4:40] unusual? [4:41] O meron bang [4:42] lowest amount [4:43] na kapag kinuha in cash, [4:45] sasabihin nyo na rin [4:46] unusual? [4:48] Pwede naman po [4:49] naming sabihin na [4:51] unusual. [4:51] Let's say, [4:51] kung over, [4:52] let's say, [4:53] 500,000 na po siya. [4:54] Over 500,000? [4:56] Kasi, [4:56] kung over 500,000 [4:59] kinuha in cash, [5:00] sasabihin nyo [5:00] unusual. [5:01] For that particular, [5:02] let's say, [5:03] po yung kliyente. [5:04] Yes. [5:04] Ganun po. [5:05] For the particular client. [5:07] E ito, [5:07] hindi lang [5:08] 500,000, [5:10] 125 million. [5:12] So, [5:13] 250 times [5:14] mas unusual [5:15] sa minimum amount [5:17] na sasabihin yung [5:18] unusual [5:18] kung kinuha in cash. [5:21] Depende po rin [5:23] sa, [5:24] yung kliyente po. [5:26] Depende sa kliyente. [5:27] But, [5:28] kung sino mang [5:29] kliyente aside, [5:30] nasabihin yung [5:31] unusual [5:31] dahil [5:32] 125 million [5:33] na para po sa akin [5:35] is 250 times [5:37] yung 500,000 [5:38] at hindi po in check [5:39] kundi in cash [5:40] po kinuha. [5:44] Pwede nga po, [5:44] depende po sa [5:45] depositor po niya. [5:47] Kung [5:47] regular lang sa kanya [5:49] yung mga ganang [5:49] withdrawals or what, [5:51] it's [5:51] useful. [5:52] Pero kung parang [5:53] for the first time [5:55] ma-encounter namin [5:55] that much, [5:56] unusual po sa akin. [5:57] And this was [5:57] your first time? [5:58] Opo. [5:59] And in your 32 years, [6:00] higit tatlong dekada, [6:02] kung masasabi nating [6:04] pambihirang amount [6:05] ito in cash? [6:07] Opo. [6:07] Masasabi nating [6:08] once in a lifetime [6:09] yung ganitong amount [6:11] in cash? [6:12] Pwede po. [6:12] Pwede. [6:13] Alright. [6:14] Salamat, [6:14] Mr. President Officer. [6:15] Thank you. [6:16] Tutuloy ko po sa second round. [6:17] Thank you, [6:18] Senator Judge Risa. [6:19] Senator Judge Villoneva, [6:21] thereafter, [6:21] our distinguished [6:22] Senate President. [6:23] You may proceed, [6:24] sir, [6:24] when you're ready. [6:25] You have two minutes. [6:26] Thank you, [6:26] Sir Presiding Officer, [6:27] Senate President. [6:28] Madam Witness, [6:30] binanggit niyo po [6:30] yung unusual, [6:31] no? [6:32] And gusto kong [6:33] susugan yung katanungan. [6:35] Yung usual, [6:37] below 500,000 [6:38] pag individual. [6:39] Pero kung ito'y [6:40] government agency, [6:43] paano niyo masasabi [6:44] na ito'y unusual? [6:46] Any [6:47] depositor naman po, [6:48] kung hindi naman po [6:49] ganong frequency [6:50] lang nag-i-withdraw [6:51] ng ganong kalaking cash. [6:54] Kaya po, [6:55] naano ko siyang [6:56] unusual? [6:57] Kung ganito po, [6:58] na apat na beses [6:59] nag-withdraw [7:00] na 125 million, [7:02] would you say [7:02] usual na siya? [7:04] Unusual nga po. [7:05] No, [7:05] kung apat na sunod-sunod na [7:07] na yung binanggit po ninyo, [7:08] 125 million, [7:10] sunod-sunod, [7:11] nagiging usual na po ba siya? [7:13] O unusual pa rin? [7:14] Pwede naman po. [7:16] What is it? [7:18] Kung sunod-sunod naman po, [7:19] magiging ano na po siya. [7:21] Talagang usual transaction na po yun. [7:22] So, [7:23] kung ganon nga po, [7:24] na apat na sunod-sunod, [7:25] usual transaction na siya. [7:27] Opo. [7:30] Madam Witness, [7:31] as I understand, [7:32] yung process, [7:33] the BM would [7:34] provide the funding, [7:36] notice of cash allocation, [7:38] and then the agency [7:39] authorizes the [7:40] disbursement. [7:41] At kayo, [7:42] for example, [7:43] sa inyong bank [7:43] o sa land bank, [7:44] bine-verify nyo lang [7:46] at you pay [7:47] the corresponding [7:48] instruments. [7:48] Is that correct? [7:50] Apo. [7:51] Bine-verify po yung [7:52] pag-issue ng cheque po. [7:54] Yung mga signatories, [7:55] pays, [7:55] like that po. [7:57] So, bago po inilabas [7:58] ang salapi [7:59] o yung pera, [8:01] ano-ano pong dokumento [8:02] yung aktual [8:02] na natatanggap po ninyo [8:04] at inyong [8:05] masusing sinusuri? [8:07] Kasi sabi nyo nga, [8:08] I'm sure, [8:09] from the first withdrawal, [8:13] as you made mention, [8:14] it's unusual. [8:15] So, ano yung mga [8:16] talagang sinusuri po ninyo [8:18] na dokumento [8:20] bago ninyo [8:21] i-release ito? [8:23] Supported naman po [8:24] ito ng advice. [8:25] So, once po [8:26] nakapasok na po [8:26] sa system [8:27] at funded naman po siya, [8:30] okay na po sa amin yun. [8:31] So, yun lang po [8:32] yung inyong sinecheck? [8:33] Opo. [8:34] And that's it? [8:34] You release it right away? [8:35] Yes, sir. [8:37] And binanggit nyo po kanina, [8:39] hindi ito suspicious? [8:43] Para sa ano po, [8:44] hindi po siya suspicious. [8:46] At lahat po [8:47] ay legitimate? [8:48] Yes, sir. [8:49] One last question [8:51] that I'd like to ask. [8:54] With this amount of money [8:56] that will be withdrawn [8:57] by the payee, [9:00] ano po yung mga [9:00] advance arrangements? [9:02] Kasi sabi nyo nga, [9:03] hindi usual, [9:04] biglaan, [9:05] 125 million. [9:06] Ano yung mga [9:07] advance arrangements [9:09] na inihingi po ninyo [9:11] o tinatawag po sa inyo [9:13] bago mailabas po [9:15] itong salapi na ito? [9:17] How far in advance [9:18] was Land Bank [9:19] informed [9:20] that these amounts [9:21] of physical cash [9:24] would be required [9:24] for each transaction? [9:26] Mga a day or two po, [9:28] ni-inform po kami [9:29] from the [9:30] cash division po [9:31] ng OVP [9:32] na meron po silang [9:33] ganong cash requirement. [9:35] So, [9:35] sa amin naman po, [9:36] pinaprocess naman po [9:37] namin yung requirements nila [9:38] bago po namin sila [9:40] advise na [9:40] available na po yung cash. [9:42] So, in 24 hours, [9:43] kaya na po? [9:44] Pwede naman po. [9:45] Salamat po. [9:46] Maraming salamat. [9:46] Thank you. [9:47] Thank you, Senator Judge Villeneva.