Inside Kouri Richins' Murder Trial: Guilty Verdict & What You Didn't See on TV@PrettyLiesAndAlibis

[00:00:00] Speaker 1: What if we told you some of the most important moments during the closings of Corey Richens' trial happened off-camera? They never made it on camera. The verdict may be in, but what really mattered might have happened in the glances, the posture, the tension that you couldn't see or feel inside that courtroom. And today, we've got someone who was there and saw and felt it all. [00:00:30] Speaker 2: Welcome to the global phenomenon, Surviving the Survivor. Here's your host, Emmy Award-winning journalist, Joel Waldman. [00:00:39] Speaker 1: What's up, SDS Nation? Welcome to Surviving the Survivor. This is the global phenomenon with more than 50 countries represented. And in the afternoon hours, maybe we get 55 or 60 or 65 because of the time difference. So, welcome to everybody. Today, something a little bit different. We're going to go inside that courtroom from yesterday where closing arguments happened in the case of Utah, the state of Utah versus Corey Richens. Not to talk about what we saw in the feeds, not the clips that you all saw, but what actually happened inside the courtroom. And the tension in joining us here to break it all down is Gigi, G-Money, McKelvey, the stellar host of Pretty Lies and Alibis. And she was there. She had a seat inside the courtroom for closings and saw a lot of the things that the camera couldn't bring us. So, G-Money, I know you weren't there for the whole trial, but you definitely were there for closings. And you had a press pass. What was the deal? How come the public wasn't allowed in? And I know you got in via press. Lay the scene for us. What was it like? [00:01:49] Speaker 3: Well, after, let's see. I was there Friday for jury instruction where they were just, you know, going through how they're going to tell the jury or instruct the jury. Sorry. Okay. So, just a back story. I was just at breakfast and didn't count for the time change. So, with a cold, I just huffed it up three flights of stairs. So, if you see stuff flying out of my nose or my mouth, sorry. But, like, yeah. [00:02:11] Speaker 1: It's all good. Just breathe. If you need to lay down, lay down. [00:02:14] Speaker 3: No, I'm good. So, they said that what they wanted to do was reserve. There's five rows in that courtroom. And a lot of times, Joel, you've been in and you know there's two sides to the courtroom. You have one side with a bunch of rows in the other. This courtroom had, I believe, five rows. The front row always was reserved for media. And then at the hearing Friday, they said, we're going to give 24 wristbands to each family. And that's it. So, even if the rows aren't full, my understanding was they just weren't going to deal with the public as far as, you know, letting people in, just give the wristbands out and be done with it. So, there was some empty seats, obviously, on Corey's row. But, yeah. So, it was only family and media in there yesterday as far as I know. [00:03:00] Speaker 1: Yeah. And, I mean, was anyone outside the courthouse? I mean, you and I bumped into each other. Was that Kohlberger? I don't care. We bump into each other occasionally. I know at Kohlberger, there was, you know, that's a much bigger trial just in general. But were there people who were upset in the public who were not allowed in because they were allowed in the entire time? And then you get the closings and they say, uh-uh, you can't come in. [00:03:24] Speaker 3: Yeah. And, I mean, at the end of that day, the judge kind of looked at everybody in the media row and was like, maybe you guys could put it out that we're not letting the public in. But I did talk to a couple of people. Well, one lady had been there since 4.30, so I'm not sure if she didn't get the memo. But, unfortunately, she had to sit in her car and watch the closings and then verdict watch. Nobody made a scene or anything like that, though. But there were people that were waiting, I guess, that just didn't hear. There's no public access. So I felt really bad for them because, you know, 4.30 in Park City, it's cold and for nothing, really. But, yeah, it was – I was a little shocked that there were so many empty seats that they didn't at least let a few people in. But, you know, it is what it is. [00:04:10] Speaker 1: Yeah, and then Joe Petuto, who was on our channel, giving some legal analysis in her channel, Prop Joe Explains, she said, hey, I just saw Gigi posted on Insta. Have you seen the size of this courthouse? She goes, it's so tiny. Did that strike you about how small this courthouse is? Tell us about, like, the stature of the actual courthouse. [00:04:33] Speaker 3: Yeah, so I can actually see it from my Airbnb. I could probably spit and hit it. But it is very, very small. It's, I mean, probably the smallest I've ever been in. We didn't go to any of the other areas just straight to where Corey's trial was. But, you know, the room itself, there's obviously more room for defense counsel and that whole area. But as far as where the public seat, the public is, you have that one row. And then the right side was where inside the courthouse they had the pool feed was kind of running from there. They had their tech people in there. But the courthouse as a whole, very small. But Summit County is not huge. I mean, this is the biggest thing, really, I think, probably to happen in Summit County case-wise that I can think off the top of my head. But, yeah, you know, there was all those motions to move it to Salt Lake. But they got their jury and, yeah, but I was shocked when I drove by the night before. I thought, is this maybe like the break room here or, no, it's the courthouse. But, yeah, very small, a great court staff. I just do want to say just the nicest people. Yeah, I was surprised at how small that courthouse was. I thought it was going to be a big, you know, huge courthouse. No, it wasn't. [00:05:46] Speaker 1: Yeah. Dom's mom gifting some memberships. Thank you for that. Arizona gal, hello from Tucson with the COE and I met. Look at this. Happy St. Patrick's Day, everybody. [00:05:58] Speaker 3: Yeah, I got my green bracelet on. Y'all can't pinch me. [00:06:00] Speaker 1: There you go. I've got green right here on my globe right here. That's my green for the day. But, Gigi, you want to try reading this? This is from our good friend, Black Widore in the Republic of Ireland, writing something in, I don't know, Irish. So, Pichetai Lefele Padre. I have no idea what the hell that is. [00:06:20] Speaker 3: It looks beautiful, but if I said it, you guys would think I was having a seizure or so. [00:06:25] Speaker 1: So, let's go inside the courtroom now. What was, for closings, I mean, ahead of closings, what was the atmosphere like in there? And we're looking at a picture of Corey right now. She saved her best blouse for last, I guess, here, you know, her floral print. Someone said, if you look at her right collar, it looks almost like a little bloodstain. It's the floral pattern. But someone yesterday said, why does she have bloodstains on her shirt, which I thought was a little creepy, but an interesting observation. What was this tension like, Gigi McKelvey, inside the courtroom pre-closings? [00:07:02] Speaker 3: You know, it doesn't matter how solid you think a case is and that it's going to be easy for the jury. There's always that tension of uncertainty because juries can be very unpredictable. I think it just was not a, it was solemn. It was solemn because of why we were there, first off. I mean, Eric Richens killed, you know, essentially for money, number one, and taken from his boys. And I think that that was that at the forefront of everybody's mind is why we're here. You know, a life lost that three boys will grow up without their dad. But also just the nervousness of, did the state really prove beyond a reasonable doubt that she poisoned him? And that was lingering, I think, for a lot of people of, is there going to be that one person that says, yeah, but, you know, you can't put the fentanyl, like, in her hand in the home. I mean, it all made sense if you use your common sense with Robert Crozier. Carmen's testimony, I think, was about the strongest of the whole trial, to be honest, even though the defense tried time and time again to discredit her. So you always think about, yeah, you're nervous, but at the totality of it, it had to have been her. So I think tense is the best way to describe it, but really solemn as well. [00:08:20] Speaker 1: Yeah. Here's a weird thing, G-Money. One of my oldest friends from second grade, his name is Rob Crozier, the exact same name. And it's not a common name, so we've been kind of making fun of him at this expense, but a weird coincidence. But Mari here, I heard she was physically shaking. Why would some doing bad things and truly think they're innocent and think lying works? Those are all great questions. But what was your first impression of Corey when you saw her in the courtroom? She looks tiny. She looks, she always looks, quote unquote, like, innocent is not the right word, like doe-eyed. She just has that expression. I've said this on the show. She's not like the first person I'm picking out of a Home Depot to say she's a killer, but now she is a convicted killer. But what was your first impression of her? [00:09:16] Speaker 3: So the first time I saw her was Friday when they were doing the jury stuff and the jury wasn't there. She was very active with her attorneys talking, sometimes laughing. But yesterday, when we went in for closing, she was shaking a little bit, but I think for her, there was still some hope of like, all right, somebody's going to be on my side back there in that room. But when we got verdict, Joel, I was one of the first in the media row. So I'm sitting, if you're looking at this picture, I am to her right. I'm in the last seat by the wall, but I could see her shirt and it was, it started off, you know, kind of like barely trembling. By the time they brought the jury in, even her little leg chains were jiggling. She was shaking so hard. I can see her feet. She had heels on and you could see that her leg shackles were shaking. I mean, it was, it was very obvious that she was super, super nervous. And then the other thing I noticed is Nestor was talking to her before the jury was brought in and she was just staring straight ahead, kind of down. Normally she would turn and talk to Nestor and engage her in conversation, but she was stone-faced and just nodding. She wasn't engaged. You could tell it was the final countdown. This is it. This jury has a verdict. You know, under three hours, it's not going to be the verdict you want. I don't think Corey's dumb enough to think that everybody would come back with a not guilty in three hours or less. So it, the reality had hit her before that verdict was read and you could tell physically with the shaking and then just, she was stiff as a board and just staring straight ahead and just appeasing Nestor and not engaging even when she was being talked to. [00:11:05] Speaker 1: Yeah. COE, I don't know if we have the actual moment we'll play. If we do, we can play it back in a second. But, um, Andrew here, uh, Gigi, did the defense annoy you as much as they came across annoying all of us? That was a big gripe that they were sort of whining their way through arguments. Look, the defense has a difficult job and they, and you know, there's a built-in bias usually against them, but I have to say they were sort of seemingly a little unprepared kind of all over the place. Um, they asked for a continuance last week. Um, what were your thoughts on seeing the defense team, uh, in person and what was the perception in the courtroom of how they were doing? [00:11:44] Speaker 3: So I'll probably get dragged for this, but I will say Friday, uh, Nestor came up and said, hello, she was very nice. You know, they have a job to do and a very difficult one in this case because everything is so obvious, but she was very kind just on a personal level. If you compare closings yesterday, it was just apples to oranges. I mean, the defense laid everything out with the most important parts that that jury needed to go back there and come to that conclusion to where I felt like throwing up pieces of art showing, um, mourning over the ages. Um, we all were kind of like, what, I mean, that's, that's, that's a little weird, you know, Corey's on the floor hiding her face, probably cause she didn't have any tears and she didn't want anybody to see it. But you know, it was just, it was a different closing. I mean, the prosecution was just, they were A, B, C, D sat down to where I felt like the defense just didn't, they didn't have anything to work with. All they could say is you didn't test the cops to see if there was fentanyl in them. Um, you know, there just wasn't much. So I felt like it was playing more on emotion of the jury based, you know, as opposed to fact, which the prosecution just laid out the motive, how things went down in a really precise way. And then a rebuttal got up there and just put the bow very neatly on top of the box. So if you compare, I think that the defense just, I, it was, it was not the closing that they needed to do, in my opinion, for Corey to have a chance to convince one juror that Eric did this to himself. But I also think the evidence that came in over the past few weeks did that for the prosecution too. We never had anybody on that stand come up and say, yeah, you know, I was a little worried about him because he was acting weird or he just changed all of the stuff. All of a sudden, there was never any indication Eric did anything. And then you have all the money motive with, with Corey. So, you know, it's like the prosecution, Corey kind of did their job for them. In my opinion, the defense just had to grab what they couldn't run with it, but it was weak. In my opinion, um, just no comparison. [00:14:01] Speaker 1: And they did, uh, they did go there with, um, we're going to play this in one second, but they did go also, um, quietly. First, they went and attacked Carmen Lauber, but then they, they went to that place with Eric, uh, where, you know, kind of putting it out there. Maybe he was a drug addict. Maybe he was a problem. How, how did you, in moments like that, were you able to look at the family and see if there was any kind of response from them? [00:14:27] Speaker 3: No, because, um, they were behind me. We could actually see more on the feed than we could in the courtroom. I was, I was behind Corey. I could see her bun very nicely done, but that was about it. I think they're used to hearing this narrative after years of this case before it went to trial. Uh, that clearly was going to be the, the defensive strategy because there really wasn't much they could do other than say, oh, well, he took THC gummies. So he's taking fentanyl, you know, they didn't have much to work with, but you know, I know just being at home, watching the feed, my chat went wild saying, this is such a preach. You know, I mean, the guy was coaching T-ball teams and working full time and nobody ever said like, oh yeah, he was late all the time or his, his face started looking sunken in. There was just no evidence. So I think at this point, the family is probably used to that stupid theory, but no doubt it probably hurts every time it's brought up because they know the truth and they knew their brother and they know he would not do that. Especially like having three boys and as involved as he was and having a very successful business that was 50% his just never any indication. And, um, yeah, you know, with Carmen Lauber, they really came down on her unfairly a lot of times, but to me, Joel, she was the best witness in this entire trial because she showed emotion more than Corey did about losing Eric. [00:15:54] Speaker 1: I agree. I agree. I thought you kind of let the Luis Rivera of this trial, uh, credible, even though she has a troubled past. Uh, thank you to boss lady for thanking us. Uh, appreciate it. There was a comment here. Uh, at any point, did you see Corey crying after closings or after the verdict, after the court stream ended at any time? Did you see her sort of break down Gigi? [00:16:16] Speaker 3: No, not at all. I think she was in shock to be honest. Um, you know, if you watch the feed here, she kind of drops her head slightly, but there was no big, big outburst of emotion that I saw. Um, she, when was it? She was wiping her eyes after a break in between the closing. So it was after the prosecution went first and we were waiting on the defense to come in. She, when I walked in and sat down, she did have a tissue and her eyes were red. It, it, it, it could have been after the defense is closing. I'm not sure, but it was before the state was, you know, uh, that was the only time I saw any emotion. And I think the reality of it for her was this is it, like now it's going to be up to these people to decide the rest of my life. So something hit her in that break that made her cry. And it may have been after the defense closing and before rebuttal, I believe that's when it was. And so I guess maybe she thought up screwed. That wasn't like the point we needed to drive home. And then rebuttal, you know, is always going to be strong. So yeah, that was the only time I saw her breakdown, but after verdict, nothing. She was very stoic. Um, probably in shock because knowing what I know about Corey, I would think she thought she was going home. [00:17:35] Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what, I mean, just from a physical appearance, what, what did, how did she strike you? She tiny, I mean, is she, is she like, you notice her? Is there anything about her? What is she like in person? [00:17:47] Speaker 3: Very tiny. Um, I would say maybe like five foot one. Um, she's really short, very skinny. Um, she's got some big hands. I can't say nothing. Cause I got some man hands, but, um, my hands are disproportionate. That was the only thing big about that girl were her hands. Uh, but you know, very, very tiny. Um, you, you know, you could see even in this picture, her clavicles like sticking out. I'm sure that's, that's probably just like gel food is not good. Um, and then the stress of the trial coming up, you know, I'm sure she's probably not been eating good, but yeah, very tiny, short, skinny. Um, yeah, I, and then dress, you know, they always dress them like a librarian. I remember walking into Jodi Arias' trial and seeing her dress like, you know, she would check out your book for you. And I was like, girl, we saw those pictures the last day you were with Travis. This is not how you dress. Um, so they always make them look more, less threatening, lower their seat down just a hair to make them look a little smaller. But the evidence in this case, you're not going to have any foolery that would play on the jury that way based on what we knew about what happened. And then just all the evidence that, you know, what blows my mind is, um, even though we didn't get all these text messages that were deleted, we didn't have to, because the way they presented the two people like, uh, Crozier and Carmen coming down the mountain and meeting. And they never did that again after all this, you know, it was just so fine tuned that you didn't need the text messages. You knew what was up. [00:19:19] Speaker 1: Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. A hundred percent. I thought Bloodworth did a really good job. I mean, he, there were points in the trial where I thought it was dragging a little bit, but in closings, and we'll get to that. I thought he, like he weaves in a really tight airtight narrative, um, with the graphics and he had that, um, CPR clock going off, which was, you know, a good touch. But, um, Biggie Fargo here, um, Lisa Darden, who is her mother was in court yesterday. Right. Um, did you get a look at her, Gigi? Did she have other family there? What was that like? Well, how was she responding? [00:19:57] Speaker 3: Yeah. So Corey's brother, Ronnie, I did not see, but I did see Lisa and some other family members. I'm not sure who they are to Corey, but there were maybe like seven or eight that I know of that were there for Corey. Um, and then they waited out in the hall with everybody else during deliberations to where the victim's family, they're taken back. They're in a room where nobody can bother them, but they were outside with us and they were pacing and talking on the phone and that kind of thing. And, um, in fact, I wasn't going to tell the story, but I'll tell it. I was sitting by myself kind of just talking in my chat and hanging out with the alibiers. And there was somebody that, that came and sat sort of near me and they were on the phone. And this is during deliberations that the person was like, yeah, if she's found innocent, we're just going to put her in the car and rush her out of here past the media. It's a circus and I'm sitting here going like, please don't laugh out loud. Oh my gosh. I'm going to laugh out loud because this guy thinks she's going home and we're going to go get her some good food or whatever. And I was like, oh my gosh. [00:21:01] Speaker 1: Do we know who that person was? [00:21:03] Speaker 3: I do not. I don't think it's family. I was told it's somebody who, uh, knows the family. And I think it's through the case, maybe somebody that connected with them through the case, but yeah, they have plans to take her to get a good meal and, and rush her out. And now she just got put back in that paddy wagon and send back to the pokey. [00:21:21] Speaker 1: Uh, by the way, G money, she hosts pretty lies and alibis, uh, COE put up something 45, yeah, 4,500 shy of 100 K. So make sure you sub to pretty lies and alibis and get G money where she needs to be, which is at 100 K. And then, uh, beyond that, um, we had, uh, sky Lazaro on yesterday. She came on, she was Corey's. And if you guys missed that after the verdict yesterday, you can find it on YouTube. We had both Greg scored us. Who's the rich and his family attorney and, uh, sky, who was a one-time Corey's attorney. Um, did you see her in the courtroom? Do you have a chance to chat with her at all? [00:22:01] Speaker 3: I didn't chat with her, but Joel, I'm going to tell you right now, that woman is flipping gorgeous. Oh my gosh. She is so beautiful. Um, and I actually, I was on your show with her way back when. And, um, so I didn't get to talk to her, but I did see her and, you know, I understand why she may want to go. But, um, the only thing I can say about her, she's beautiful. Uh, yeah, I'll have to go back and watch her interview with her last night. [00:22:27] Speaker 1: Yeah. Um, so let, let's just break down the closings real quick. I mean, on the, on the prosecution side, I thought Brad Bloodworth just did an incredible job. And he just laid it out, cool, calm, collected. Uh, he had graphics. He had that CPR clock going, uh, ticking away, um, inside the courtroom. And when you were watching that, did it seem very buttoned up? Like this guy is on point in the zone and is making an unbelievable case here. [00:22:56] Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, it really did because there's, there's only so much you need to send that jury back to the jury room with, and that is what are they going to make their decision on? I think that he summed every main part up in such a great way, but that CPR clock, I've seen it done another time in a trial and I watched the jury and they would glance over to that clock several times. And it takes forever because you're hearing the 9-1-1 call as this clock is ticking. And these are precious moments where unfortunately it would not have made a difference for Eric, but it's also that, that non urgency of tending to your husband that is cold and stiff and trying anything you can to help. Um, it was very powerful. I, I, I just focused on the jury and they would look at Bloodworth, but then a lot of them would really look over to that clock and watch those seconds and minutes tick by. And then he points out, okay, here's when CPR was started and you feel like it's been 20 minutes. So I think it drove home the point. This is not urgent for Corey to try and save Eric's life. Um, and I think that that was super powerful and any kind of visual like that you can talk about, well, she didn't call 9-1-1 for this many minutes or didn't start CPR for this many minutes, but to watch those seconds tick by, it's a whole different impact on that jury. And they were paying attention for sure. [00:24:27] Speaker 1: Now coming from a Jewish guy that doesn't know a lot about Irish, uh, funerals, you know, the video that I thought was really like gutting to me was them drinking, taking shots the day after he dies. Um, but, um, I guess that is tradition, uh, to a degree, uh, in the Irish culture. Um, but I'm just curious when, when, cause I think they played that video during Bloodworth's rebuttal and it seemed like it got like, uh, some attention, uh, from the courtroom because there was a real silence with a couple of oohs and ahs. And I can't believe this. I'm just curious how that video played in person. [00:25:08] Speaker 3: When you saw it, I really didn't notice any big reactions. And look, at this point, you know, he's been dead a day and from what I've learned about Eric's friends, they're all just fun people and they get together and they have fun. So for me personally, just hearing little stories here and there, I think that is the way Eric would have wanted them to just to get together and laugh and have fun. So, you know, people saying it's in poor taste, you don't get to say that you're not Eric's friends, you're not Eric's family. You don't know Eric. You don't know what Eric would have wanted. I'm sure he would have rather them be laughing and having a good time, not knowing the situation a day in, even though there were suspicions. Um, but I think to say that, that Eric, from what I've learned about Eric, that he would rather them do that than be sitting around sobbing, you know, you, you know, your friend and you know what they would have wanted. And so I, I didn't see any huge reaction from anybody in the courtroom about it. But when you see Corey smiling, that's where the kicker is. It wasn't about anybody else in that room. When you see a woman who has just lost her husband laughing and having a good time, that's where the judgment was. The judgment wasn't on his friends or, or anything. It was, she just lost her husband and they have three kids who are young and she is just having the best time ever. So for me, what I've kind of saw with the jury, it wasn't, you know, when they showed the friends, it wasn't a big deal. But when they showed Corey kind of in the corner laughing, that's when you see that little facial expression on the jurors that you don't see when it's his friends. [00:26:54] Speaker 1: Yeah. It was, it's like an uncomfortable, weird laugh. And she kind of like doubles over in the corner. It's it, I don't know. It was just, it was, it made me uncomfortable. So I assume it made maybe some other people. [00:27:05] Speaker 3: But yeah, just as a whole, no, I think it was just Corey's reaction alone that bothered people. And I did talk to a few people after and it, you know, it was like, yeah, just her reaction, like his friends, they're celebrating his life. This is probably what they would have done if another friend had passed and Eric was there. It was just having Corey in that video at that time where you're looking at what less than 24 hours after he died and she is just having a blast instead of being with her boys, like quietly or, or taking care of them. Or, you know, there's a million things we all could say she could be doing. So no, I don't, I don't think anybody faulted anybody, but Corey in that video, uh, because that is not a devastated widow. [00:27:46] Speaker 1: Yeah. I'm going to come back to the jurors in a minute. There's this, uh, comment with Joey, I'm sorry to hear this, but, uh, says I did CPR on my husband, I was exhausted. Uh, it was painful to watch. I don't know what she means what we were watching yesterday or for her to watch, but the point is a lot of people pointed out Gigi, uh, watching on camera and listening to that nine one one call that it was pretty clear. She wasn't doing CPR cause it takes, it requires energy and it wasn't like she was out of breath. She just seemed to be putting on, you know, uh, you know, Shakespearean act, but how was that received inside the courtroom? Did you, did the people know that she clearly wasn't doing CPR? Did you know at that point? Cause she's just talking as though, uh, she didn't just run up a flight of stairs like you did before the show. [00:28:35] Speaker 3: I'm still, I'm still huffing here. Um, you know, I think I've done CPR several times and I will tell you by the time EMS gets there, you are ringing wet, you cannot catch a breath. It reminded me a lot of Alex Cox when Charles Vallow was shot at the same situation. They're telling him, do CPR. I don't know how to do that. And then you hear him and he's like, one, two, three, four. And then they get there and he's not sweaty and he doesn't have any blood on his hands because Charles was shot in the chest, you know, and the same with Eric, um, when they did start the compressions, things happened to his body. Same with, with Charles, they knew CPR had not been done. It's obvious. If you have a gunshot wound and you have done CPR, there is no blood to come out. Once you've done it, you know, you may get a little bit, but same with Eric. Once that was started, uh, things started happening with his body that, that was very clear in both of those cases that it wasn't being done. And I think that, you know, Pete, the jury would look at Corey at very key times in, in the closings. And this was one to see her reaction of that 9-1-1 call, because to anybody who's innocent to rehear that is going to bring back some really traumatic memories for you. And you're going to get visually upset or you're maybe going to wipe your eye in a genuine way, but there was nothing. So you did see the jury sort of glance over, not stare hard, but several did glance her way during the duration of that 9-1-1 call, because that was the moment that they are now here or to decide if she did it. And, and she didn't show any emotion to me during this whole trial, except for when Josh Grossman was on that stand. That was the only time I saw her ever visually react to anything. And that's very telling to me. [00:30:19] Speaker 1: Yeah. Um, you weren't in the court. I mean, he, he seemed like, um, a bit of a tortured soul. And I don't mean that in a negative way. He seems like he really actually cared for Corey and just got caught up. And that guy is probably lucky because, uh, I have no doubt that this woman could have done the same thing. [00:30:38] Speaker 3: But he had nothing to offer her. He didn't have, as we say in the South, pardon my French, he didn't have a pot to piss in. [00:30:45] Speaker 1: Yeah. [00:30:45] Speaker 3: So, you know, there's no need to kill Josh Grossman because he's not worth millions, but Eric was, and that was going to be her saving grace to the horrible business decisions she made. I mean, I think, you know, my, my 14 year old could do better in the real estate business than Corey did. [00:31:01] Speaker 1: A hundred percent. A big thank you to AR Wyoming for, uh, the super chat. Appreciate it. Uh, it doesn't get better than G, G, G money McKelvey. She's awesome. We'd love, uh, seeing G, G, but, um, speaking of the money, which you just mentioned, uh, if you ask, uh, AI, the day Corey was convicted of assault on Amy up May 13th, that is, uh, Eric's birthday. That is going to be sentencing. But, um, G, G, what about the financial side of this? I mean, she faces like 20 something additional financial charges that are coming down the road, but here they had charges, financial charges, as it related to this particular case. Um, that just, I mean, the, the forensic accountant as sort of boring as that person was, they were incredibly detailed and precise. And I mean, what kind of impact do you think the financial side of this, uh, had in her conviction and in her motive to want to kill, uh, her husband? [00:32:00] Speaker 3: It's just a testament to how the prosecution tied the motive into the financial distress she was in. And you see the, the net worth of Eric that at the time he died, Corey thought was all hers. So I think that it was, it was done in a way that really made it not a question as far as motive. I don't think she killed him for Josh Grossman. I think she was servicing debts, sometimes five, $6,000 a day with these hard money lenders. You are robbing Peter to pay Paul nonstop. And it is exhausting. So I think that the way they tied in that motive to Eric's net worth and what she would have gotten if he had not been super smart and realized she's 50 shades of cray. I need to protect my boys. Um, you know, yeah. I mean, I just think that the financial motive really was what drove home why she killed him. And so it left very little doubt in a lot of people's minds and especially the jury. Well, this is exactly why she, and that's why a lot of people are killed. Joel, we know this either affairs or they want the life insurance money. We had a little bit of both here, but I think this was definitely heavily on the financial aspect of it because a lot of her financial problems would have gone away very quickly. Had Eric not had the good sense to give that over to family. [00:33:23] Speaker 1: Yeah, money, sex, and drugs, uh, the three big motivators is Phil waters always, uh, says, by the way, he found out in the course of this trial that Eric Richens, um, I was stunned to find this out. Uh, I was making $750,000 a year, uh, in a stone masonry business. So, uh, he was doing incredibly well. A young guy, I mean, uh, died, was murdered when he was 39. Um, so he had a lot of life ahead of him. And if she, let me just ask you this. And I asked, I've asked you this before, but I'm asking everyone. The hell are these people constantly thinking, killing their spouse, whether it be a man or a woman, you know, you're getting caught, you know, you know, you're going to like, what is like, what is it about Corey Richens or Brian Walsh or whoever pick whoever you want that, where they think that they are going to get away with it. [00:34:20] Speaker 3: Gee, because they think they're smarter than investigators and they think they are the smartest person in the room. And what, what I found was funny is in one of the text exchanges between Corey and Josh, Corey says, I just want to lay on the couch and cuddle and watch murder documentaries. And I'm like, girl, you did not watch the murder documentary about forensics or anything having to do with your phone. Because if you had, you would have went another way. So I, you just, with somebody like Corey, she projects that she is the smartest person in the room. And I think that all of these people think they'll be the exception that gets away with it when you're not. They're always going to look at the spouse first. And, you know, it took a little while to get Corey in custody and get her charged, but it came and it happened. And now she's a convicted murderer. So I just think that people like Brian Walsh or Corey think I'm going to be that exception. You're never the exception. You're going, you're going to live the rest of your life in prison, get divorced, you know, do what's best for your kids. If you got to give away some money to make everybody happy, do it. But I will never understand why people choose murder over divorce. But I think in Corey's case, the money would have been way less for any alimony or child support than just outright killing him. And in her mind, having access to all of his money, which we know was what, like over 4 million, maybe even 6. I can't remember the net worth when he died, but it was a lot. It would have really put her in a better spot financially to where maybe in her mind, hey, I can start over and do this right and not get in this situation. I just need all that money first. [00:35:59] Speaker 1: Yeah. Thank you. Thank you to Gina Tracy for the super chat here. Not at all an Irish tradition and for filling me in on the Irish traditions. Pebbles just subscribed to Pretty Lies and Alibis. Yeah, I do, COE. If you don't know, there's stories bringing in a lot of new faces. So we do this usually Monday through Thursday, 7 p.m. Eastern time. We bring you the best guests in true crime. We do a panel of three guests every night. We've been eyeballs deep in the Nancy Guthrie story, a case that has not been solved. And there was news last night that they don't even have a suspect and zero leads. That's some of the latest news that has not been corroborated, but it's been out there. [00:36:45] Speaker 3: It seems pretty obvious with the lack of news, unfortunately. It blows my mind, Joel. [00:36:50] Speaker 1: Blows my mind in 2026, especially because the vast majority of people I've talked to say that this was basically a hack job done by someone who's not a professional, but whoever it is. And maybe that's why. It's just someone that just randomly did this who seems to be getting away with it. But anyway, we do this show Monday through Thursday and then Fridays. It is called Surviving the Survivor. My mother is a child Holocaust survivor. She's a licensed therapist. She comes on Fridays and we argue with each other. And that's why I'm always trying to survive the survivor. Without further ado, COE, let's play the verdict. This is the moment of truth from yesterday. [00:37:27] Speaker 4: Ladies and gentlemen, would the four person you've selected please stand? May I ask you a yes or no question? Has the jury reached a unanimous verdict? Would you please hand the verdict form to the deputy and you can have a seat? Thank you. [00:38:17] Speaker 1: That's Eric's father. [00:38:24] Speaker 4: All right. Counsel, Ms. Richens, please stand. Count one, aggravated murder. We, the jury, unanimously find that the defendant, Corey Richens, is guilty of aggravated murder. We, the jury, unanimously agree that the prosecution has proved the following circumstance or circumstances regarding count one beyond a reasonable doubt. The homicide was committed for pecuniary gain and the homicide was committed by means of the administration of any substance administered, any lethal amount, dosage, or quantity. Count two, attempted aggravated murder. We, the jury, unanimously find that the defendant, Corey Richens, is guilty of attempted aggravated murder. We, the jury, unanimously agree the prosecution has proved the following circumstance or circumstances regarding count two beyond a reasonable doubt. The attempted homicide was committed for pecuniary gain. Count three, insurance fraud. We, the jury, unanimously find that the defendant, Corey Richens, is guilty of insurance fraud. Count four, insurance fraud. We, the jury, unanimously find that the defendant, Corey Richens, is guilty of insurance fraud. Count five, forgery. We, the jury, unanimously find that the defendant, Corey Richens, is guilty of forgery. It's signed by the Ford personnel. [00:40:16] Speaker 1: Gee, money, that's, um, it's just as tense watching it, and we know the, uh, the answers. By the way, someone said that, uh, attorney Ramos, who's right behind Corey, was clutching rosary beads. Did you happen to see that, gee, gee, no? [00:40:30] Speaker 3: I did not. I was really just focused on Corey because, Joel, as much as she was shaking, I thought she would probably pass out if it was guilty. [00:40:37] Speaker 1: Um, she, it's weird because, again, on camera, I don't think it's, thank you, AR, I appreciate it. Um, I don't think it's as noticeable. Are you guys seeing it? I'm not seeing it to the degree that Gigi's explaining, and I have no doubt that she's right. Uh, what you do see, um, is the Richens family, obviously, kind of breathing a sigh of relief. The father just sort of took a couple of breaths in, um, gee, what do you think it's like in that moment for, uh, Eric Richens' dad, you know? [00:41:08] Speaker 3: You know, for the whole family, Joel, a guilty verdict, of course, is a good thing, but there are no winners here. Corey's going to prison. [00:41:16] Speaker 1: Right. [00:41:17] Speaker 3: Eric's gone. They're never going to have another birthday, another holiday, another t-ball game, another high school wrestling match with Eric. Those boys will never have their dad. So, while the verdict is right, the pain really is never going to end with a guilty verdict. There's no resolution because he should still be here. You know, some accidents happen. Somebody dies in a car wreck. It's tragic, but it was one of those things. But when somebody chooses to take another human out of this world, it is a, I say it is. I've never experienced it, and I'm going to knock on some wood there. I never have to. But they will always fill this huge void, and especially those boys. So, you know, the air in there was definitely kind of a relief. But, again, just a reminder that, at the end of the day, Eric's gone. At the hands of Corey Richens, and what she denied this family, these boys, for many decades to come, there is no sentence harsh enough that can make up for that. But at least justice was served. [00:42:21] Speaker 1: Yeah, 100%. I said the same thing yesterday. There are no winners. It's totally bittersweet, and probably more bitter than sweet. There is, like, a modicum of justice, I mean, as opposed to her just walking, which would be a complete travesty. But at the end of the day, these three kids are going to have no parents. They're going to be raised by the family. Luckily, this is a very loving family. Now, Greg Skordis, who is the rich and family spokesperson and a very well-known criminal defense attorney in that area, and I joke with him because he's on ski patrol, and so is the judge. And everyone wants to hear about the judge, Gigi, so that's coming next. Even Gigi is rolling those eyes in a good way. But, you know, I told Greg Skordis there are no winners, and he agreed. He said that he thought that the family was going to want to speak to the media. And during our podcast last night, Eric's father called Greg, and he didn't take the call. I mean, he took it and spoke to him off camera, and they said that they're going to need a significant amount of time to just heal before they can talk to anyone publicly. So Greg's shared that with us. But Greg is just a great guy and exactly who you want to be. [00:43:37] Speaker 3: Now, Amy Richens did give a very brief statement. I have that up on my YouTube channel. [00:43:41] Speaker 1: Oh, cool. [00:43:42] Speaker 3: That it was very brief. But, yeah, you know, you have to think, even though it was a guilty verdict, and you think, all right, the weight's off our shoulders, again, it's still that reminder of why they're there and why that guilty verdict came down, which is their loved one is gone. [00:43:57] Speaker 1: Was that a written statement? [00:43:59] Speaker 3: I believe she kind of read a paper, but she did come and talk to the media. It was maybe, it was less than a minute, but she did want to acknowledge, you know, the justice that was served for her brother. And, yeah, so maybe one day they'll speak out. But, you know, things, this is a whole new reality. So for years, they've had the trial looming or these hearings. And is this going to come in? Is that going to come in? Is this going to benefit Corey? And so after that guilty verdict is rendered, there is a whole new reality that weights them without these court cases. And that is just the loss of Eric. And so I think that a lot of times for me, I'm not one that I don't chase down people after trials to get them to talk because, you know, they've got a process. They've got a process. You know, what happened yesterday, today, a very different day in general from this family with that guilty verdict. Now it's just that void that they deal with from here on. [00:44:58] Speaker 1: Listen, there's a lot of adrenaline. People don't realize that even, you know, people watching, there's a huge adrenaline buildup. I mean, we went for over 11 hours yesterday between our live stream and we did a Nancy Guthrie show. And then that adrenaline just drops. Imagine what it's like for the family. It's like a thousand times, you know, more of to put to use Gigi's word of void. And then today, I'm sure it almost feels like a letdown. Like it was all this. But Eric is still not here. The kids are, you know, still don't have their parents. Now we've got to deal with this woman who's going to prison. We've got a sentencing coming up. There's a lot that goes into it. And speaking of a lot, Corey's own mother was in a domestic relationship with a woman. And that woman died under suspicious circumstances. Racer girl. Do you know what's going on with Corey's mom? Why she was appointed a lawyer? Um, any, any word about this G? [00:45:53] Speaker 3: I do know why that happened. That was in the event. She did testify for the defense case, but because she did not, that was never signed by the judge. It was just there in place. Should she have taken the stand? But as we know, the defense didn't put on a case. So it's a nothing burger, uh, has nothing to do with the death of her former partner. That was solely if she took the stand. So I want to put that baby to bed right there. [00:46:17] Speaker 1: Yeah, that's good. [00:46:18] Speaker 3: Um, the other thing too, Joel, um, that I want to point out about Eric is not only was he a, a, a father, a brother, a son, you know, there were a lot of quiet things Eric did in the background that a lot of people don't know about, like making sure kids that couldn't afford to play sports got their gear and that kids were able to pay their dues. And this was not something that he did for celebration or acknowledgement, but I am planning to go today to a ball field that is, um, they have a golf tournament every year where they raise funds and they have redone this, got this ball field. I think his boys may have played on it, but it is in honor of Eric and what he did to help underprivileged kids when, when he was alive, making sure those kids were able to play just as much as his boys in spite of the fact that financially they couldn't. So, you know, it's always important to highlight, not what was done to Eric, but what he did for his community before he was taken from it. [00:47:15] Speaker 1: Gigi knows how to just dig the dagger into my chest. Cause that, you know, my, I have my son plays tee ball. My daughter's just made the tennis team. Um, maybe there's something we can do STS nation. Even if we donate something small to, uh, that part of Utah for a youth athletics, even if it's, I don't know, a few baseball bats or something, I don't know, maybe there's [00:47:36] Speaker 3: something we can do it, let's do it a joint venture. I'll join it. [00:47:39] Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Let's do it. Um, if you guys have ideas, email, uh, me surviving the survivor at gmail.com or G, do you have a, uh, a good email for people to reach out? [00:47:50] Speaker 3: Uh, are you, I think it's send Gigi your alibi. I just made it for like this kind of stuff. Yeah. Um, so we were gonna talk about judgment, the judge, um, send Gigi your alibi at gmail.com. [00:48:05] Speaker 1: There you go. Send Gigi your alibi at gmail.com or surviving the survivor at gmail.com. If you have an idea, maybe we can do something, um, to keep Eric's, um, memory alive. And the fact that he was doing that just, uh, well, by the way, COE, I think we owe a Miami beach 140 bucks for T-ball, but that's a lot of the story. Um, the judge seems like a real human being, judge Barry white love judge M. Um, now this guy looks like he's got like an aura about him. He's six foot four. I hear he's got that voice. Don't drool too much G money. [00:48:39] Speaker 3: But what was that drool is coming out my nose? Cause it's cold, but, um, I'm just gonna tell you as awesome as his voice is on the feed to sit in that courtroom and have it bounce off the walls. I was like, I'm going to fall asleep right here on the front row in the line of the camera, because it is so soothing and just deep. Oh my gosh. But yeah, I was so impressed with this judge a lot. Like judge Bureski in Lori Vallow's trial in Arizona, just ran a tight ship. But the bonus with this one was that voice. I was like, man, I came at closings. I didn't get to hear him talk too much, but I did have that jury day where it was just him talking a lot. And so I was just like, not even in my chat. I was like, just letting it vibrate. [00:49:21] Speaker 1: I was like, this is so Zen, um, I have a theory by the way, and that is that his wife watches survive in the survivor. Cause I'm very, um, perceptive. So I noticed last week and I said this on the show yesterday, he was not wearing his wedding band and I was wondering, uh, what is going on? And then sure enough, yesterday he had his wedding band on. So my theory is his wife is watching STS and she said, you better get that band on that ring on. And, but he also, uh, he's on ski patrol, this guy, like, what doesn't he do? That's pretty cool. [00:49:53] Speaker 3: You mean like when somebody falls down a mountain and like, he has to bring them down. [00:49:57] Speaker 1: Yeah. [00:49:57] Speaker 3: He's like, I'm going to go rid some skis y'all and I'm going to be in traction by the end of the day. But if he can look, I had to go down on the red papoose of shame in Colorado one time, but like, if I could have this judge talk to me all the way down, I'd break a leg for it. [00:50:12] Speaker 1: Yeah. [00:50:13] Speaker 3: You might have to tear an ACL in a very tonic way because he is married, but that voice like, he could read bedtime stories, do podcasts, whatever. [00:50:20] Speaker 1: If you tear your ACL, he'll be, uh, giving you a nice comfort. Oh, there you go. Well, now I can tear the other one. Thank you to Charles Mersola here. Uh, very generous. Uh, it takes a village. It really does. COE, uh, prop Joe was here. Space coast. Uh, Steve Cohen, otherwise known as me, Moen, the mods. Uh, Gigi is a superstar guest. Uh, we really, we love doing stuff, uh, with G money. She's, uh, very low maintenance and just, uh, as sweet in person as she is on camera. And she, uh, she does a lot of things to help people. G money. What is up with lady? What is the latest with lady? If you don't know G money, tell the story real quick. [00:51:02] Speaker 3: Okay. So y'all, I have been dreading going to my Grammys and taking boxes because, you know, she passed in November. She lived with me. That was my homie. That was my person. And I finally forced myself. I'm trying to find some pictures. I finally forced myself to go drop the boxes off because when I get back, we have to start packing her house up, but it's like a little time capsule. It's like the only thing intact left of her and my pop. So we've been dreading it. And, um, so I go over and I'm unloading the boxes and there's a woman at the end of the driveway and she doesn't speak English. So she has her phone. She says, there's a dog stuck in the Creek and I'm scared to touch him. So this is the dog tied to a tree. You can see the lead is just wrapped around. [00:51:45] Speaker 1: Yeah. He does not look comfortable or happy. [00:51:48] Speaker 3: So I freed him up. I freed her up. Still didn't move. Right. So I, I was like, you're coming home with me because she was very skinny. So I got her home, bathed her. We are just wrapping this dog in love, spoiling her. I went to Petco and pretty much spent a car payment to pamper her and I had to take her to the vet. You can see how skinny she is there. [00:52:13] Speaker ?: Yeah. [00:52:14] Speaker 3: Um, so I had to take her to the vet, but the problem is they have to post her for five days. And if an owner comes forward, I have to bring her back in. That's what happened. So I went there. My daughter took lady because I was at a doctor's appointment and lady has bad heartworms, never been treated. Like it's going to be very expensive every month to keep them up. So, um, I said, I'm going to go approach the owner and offer to pay her a lot of money that I really don't have for this dog. And she wasn't having it. And I said, ma'am, look at the condition of your dog and shame on animal care for giving this abused dog back to her. Because when they texted me that she had come forward, it was, Hey, she's an owner. They've been looking for her, but it was nobody that had dealt with us. The front desk girls, when we brought, when Taylor brought lady in, they said, we wish you hadn't because the proof of ownership photos were heartbreaking, but we had to give her back. So we contacted the sheriff's office. They did one ride by and she was outside, but not tethered, but that was the next day. So they hadn't had time to get a tether. I've heard nothing, Joel. Um, I know she lives near my grandmother. I may just tie like a bungee cord to me and put on some mission impossible music and like come down from a tree and scoop her up, but we're trying our hardest to get her back because she's not going to be taken care of. She's an outside dog 24 seven. She was laying in the bed with us once we got her bathed and can't we just go in the dog, that skinny back to the owner. [00:53:46] Speaker 1: Oh, can't we just dog nap lady? [00:53:49] Speaker 3: I'm telling you, I'm going mission impossible. Yeah. I'm going to come down 3am, like have my kids reeling me back up and I'm going to grab her. [00:53:56] Speaker 1: So, so we're like, where does it stand now? [00:53:58] Speaker 3: Is there anything like, I mean, I've heard nothing said the day after we returned her because otherwise they would have sent a deputy to my house to get her. Um, I could have said she ran away and if had I known, I probably would have told a little liability right there just to, just to keep her. [00:54:14] Speaker 1: Yeah. [00:54:14] Speaker 3: Um, but they rode by the next day, but that's all I've heard. I mean, like they have not kept in contact. I haven't had any calls or emails returned. So, um, yeah, it's, it's, uh, the humane society of Greenville. And then there's a, the Greenville County Sheriff's office has one deputy. Uh, he was very upset. The dog was given back, but his hands very tied. He says he's going to ride by if he sees a situation where she could be taken rightfully, he would take her. And I'm like, those ribs right there. That's, that's rightful. That, that dog is statuses. We've heard nothing and I'm heartbroken, but we're not giving up on lady. [00:54:48] Speaker 1: Good. Cause that dog wishes he, she was with G. [00:54:52] Speaker 3: Oh, we were buddies. [00:54:54] Speaker 1: Yeah. That's, um, help me understand how I've struggled my whole life. And this young lady had everything and it wasn't enough back to Corey Richens. Um, sometimes it's just not enough. [00:55:06] Speaker 3: I think she wanted that status on her own, Joel. I don't think she wanted to be associated with Eric's money. I think she wanted to be seen as a successful woman herself who did it without her husband. [00:55:19] Speaker 1: It is a story of them. Did they, did they, did she really kind of pick him up at a home Depot? Like she was working there. Is that, is that verified? Yeah. [00:55:27] Speaker 3: She was in college and they met at a home Depot and you know, it kind of went from there. So. Yep. And then she was in, she was in college, had her first son, I believe while she was still in school, they got married. [00:55:40] Speaker 1: And then the other two came, someone suggesting a new shirt for STS merch free lady. Uh, we might have to go in there. I might have to get Rob D'Amico from the, he, I just heard from Rob D'Amico. He's with the, uh, FBI's hostage rescue team. I might have to have him go up to green and, uh, snatch lady for us. Uh, one other thing we've got to get to real cool, two things, but, uh, the jury, um, I understand, uh, they, they obviously whittled it down from, we, I did not know it was going to be a final jury of just eight people from 12. So they, I think, uh, had alternate jurors, nine, 10, 11, 12 step away. Uh, when he called them out, did they seem, um, I don't know, upset for lack of a better term that they were not going to be able to deliberate. Did they take it well? Um, and then how did the other jurors react? [00:56:29] Speaker 3: Really no reaction. I mean, I think they understand the process and, and, um, no, nobody reacted to, to the deliberation. Um, it was all women that were not deliberating. It was for women. Um, I kind of think the attorney was on there because one of the first questions was asking for some sort of a stipulation. So I said, the attorney's still on there. And I think the attorney was a woman, but interesting fact, um, one of, one of the jurors had a half sibling that was killed by a very famous serial killer. And I'm not going to put it out there. Cause I don't want to, uh, I don't want to identify a juror, but, um, didn't seem to be close with the half sibling, but had that sort of weird true crime connection. But, um, I didn't see the jury, but yesterday, but I will say even during the defense case, um, or their closings, they were so attentive. You could tell they were very much taken it easy, but what the one thing I did notice after the prosecution got up first, when the defense got up, they kind of stopped taking notes. They were just listening to where with the prosecution, you would see some writing some stuff down. [00:57:36] Speaker 1: Yeah. [00:57:36] Speaker 3: So it was, you know, I love to read juries. I love to watch juries, watch their reactions. That was one thing that did stand out that I didn't mention earlier. [00:57:44] Speaker 1: So what did it was, was it six men and two women in the end? [00:57:47] Speaker 3: Yep. [00:57:48] Speaker 1: Is that, is that women and what, I mean, what was their like rough age range? I mean, what, how did they appear to you? [00:57:56] Speaker 3: I would say minimum thirties, you know, maybe up to late forties. I'm, I'm really bad with ages. But, uh, there was maybe like one younger, but it seemed, you know, kind of just 30 forties kind of, kind of an age range. [00:58:12] Speaker 1: Hmm. Um, yeah. And then the obvious question to follow that is, so they get the case, they go to deliberate, they swear in the bailiffs. Um, and then it's literally under three hours, which is less time than it took to convict Charlie Adelson or Donna Adelson. And that's with the meal, I believe. Um, where were you when you got word that there was a verdict reached? [00:58:37] Speaker 3: I was in the courthouse. So what, what they did was they went and checked with the jury. They were going to check with him at four 30 and see, do you guys just want to kind of end it here? Come back fresh tomorrow. Or do you want to stay? So we got word they're going to stay and they're ordering dinner. And I said, we're going to have a verdict tonight. I just had a feeling. So they were telling people, you can leave the courthouse, but you cannot come back inside unless there is a verdict. And even then it's like, we don't know if we're going to have time. They made it clear. If you leave and we get verdict, you may not get back in. So I parked it right there. And then, um, we got an email from the court that a verdict had been reached. And then you can imagine it's, it's, um, everybody's moving. Everybody's on the phones. Everybody's saying verdict, verdict. Uh, I was shocked, uh, but not shocked. I thought it would come, but less than three hours in, that was way sooner than I thought. Because to be honest, Joel, I personally thought the attempted murder on Valentine's day could be something they could get hung up on. [00:59:38] Speaker 1: Yep. Yep. I, that's, that's something that Joe Petuto mentioned too. [00:59:42] Speaker 3: Just out of all the charges. But then I think you go back to that big puzzle. The, the piece fits and it fits with the time that she was asking Carmen for drugs. Um, you know, she said she was home. She wasn't. So she was lying out of the gate to friends. Oh, we were working from home. No, you were an hour away, which side piece, you know? So, so I guess that stuff, you know, you just put two and two together, given everything that they were convinced of. And it was like, yeah, totally had to have happened. And then I think when Cody was on the stand and said, you know, that he couldn't say what Eric said, but it was a way he had never heard him before. And this is somebody who's just Eric's friend and had that conversation that that had to have been very impactful for the jury to hear. He sounded so different, like he had never heard him before. Like he was scared. So that was the one charge I was worried about, but man, it was guilty after guilty. And I was like worried for nothing. [01:00:36] Speaker 1: Well, uh, Jerry email me surviving the survivor at gmail.com. I'm, I'm from Jersey. I'd be curious to hear about it. I didn't think it could get worse than Canaro, but, uh, surviving survivor Gmail. If you guys have trials, uh, we've got Courtney Clenney coming up in Miami. So I'm going to cover that. The so-called, uh, only fans model trials coming up. Um, I don't want to have to pull the tape G money, but I did tell Joe Petuto, this was going to be a super fast deliberation somewhere, uh, around three hours. So, uh, I would hate to have to pull that tape to show everyone that. [01:01:08] Speaker 3: You called it. I said a couple of days, maybe at most, but yeah, I was surprised. Uh, but when they said they're ordering dinner and they're staying and there was really no time limit given where they had to be out, uh, once they ordered dinner, I said, well, at least we know there's not one back there. Who's dug their heels in the sand and they're not going to resolve it tonight. [01:01:26] Speaker 1: Yeah. [01:01:27] Speaker 3: That was kind of, I was like, okay, they're rolling back there. [01:01:30] Speaker 1: Yeah. Um, Cindy, Cindy beach, uh, did the jurors look at the defendant? Um, were you looking for that Gigi when they came back in with the verdict? Was any eye contact made between the jurors and Corey Richens? [01:01:45] Speaker 3: Um, a couple of jurors did look over at her. Um, and you know, you have to put yourself in the juror's shoes, even though she's guilty. It, it, I'm sure somewhere deep down, it's hard to send somebody away for life, even though, you know, they're a bad person. But I've seen that at trials where you're kind of like, I'm sorry, but I just sent you to prison. Now these people were just like, let, you know, just a glance, but it was very much like a resolved look and not a nervous. You're about to hear what, what my decision was. Um, and then when the jurors left, I believe Corey would just did not look at them. I didn't, I couldn't see if Corey was looking at them because I was literally just staring at her bun on the back of her head. But, um, so I haven't went back and watched any of the footage, but yeah, a few jurors did glance over at her, you know, with a very reassured look, not a, I'm sorry. Or, you know, an awkward look, it was kind of, all right, we did our business and, um, yeah. So, um, and when they said yes, you know, they were very much, yes. [01:02:45] Speaker 1: Yeah. Um, yeah. From, from hope here, uh, Gigi, the camera cut out shortly after the verdict. Did Corey look at her family or show any emotion after the cameras cut out? [01:02:55] Speaker 3: None that I could see. Um, she seemed to just stare straight ahead and, um, you know, it was hard to see again. Cause my, her back was to me, but I just didn't see anything. The shaking kind of stopped after verdict. It was really when the, I mean, I'm, of course I wasn't looking at it too much. Cause when you're waiting on the jury to come in and the judge, you're just looking at her to see what's going on. I see her little, you know, leg shackles are kind of jingling and not jingling to where you could hear, but they were shaking. The shirt was shaking. I mean, what wasn't clinging to her. It was just, you could see it was trembling, uh, but no, no emotion that I saw. Um, just dropped the head and, um, I didn't see her look back, but maybe she did. [01:03:37] Speaker 1: Well, I know Steve Cohen is going to see if any jurors are willing to speak and, uh, maybe Gigi, we'll see if, uh, the judge wants to come on and then we'll have you come on with the judge and we can just listen to him talk. We'll just give him, we'll give him a book to read. [01:03:51] Speaker 3: I was going to say, can you like read the constitution to me right now? I'm just going to sit here while you're the whole daggum thing. [01:03:58] Speaker 1: Um, so when it was all over, I mean, did you even, did you see, did you happen to catch the jurors leaving the building? Did they keep them, uh, back and like deliberate? They usually keep them back there and wait for everyone to kind of get out. [01:04:12] Speaker 3: Didn't see him. Nope. Uh, they, they snuck them out, you know, and, um, the, the families went to another building aside. It's a justice center, which is just to the side of the courthouse, probably to meet with the prosecutors and that kind of thing. And I saw Corey's family go over, so they may have been meeting with the defense. I'm not sure, but, um, nope, no sign of the jurors at all. And so we'll see if any talk, I'd be interested to see, you know, their thoughts as always. It's important to, to hear the people who decided it, what was going through their mind. And, you know, at what point in the trial did you really think, whoa, okay, like we're getting somewhere. I'm kind of starting to see the motive come together. So hopefully you guys can, can get some jurors on. I'd love to hear what they have to say. [01:04:51] Speaker 1: Yeah. The judge says, uh, pebble says the judge can read the phone books. She doesn't care if it's the constitution or the, they don't even have phone books anymore, but I get one of those thick TV manuals or something. We'll just, we'll figure something out. Uh, final thing, sentencing is, uh, May 13th. Um, G number one, it's Eric Richen's birthday. So there's some rich irony there. Uh, do you think Corey speaks at that sentencing? A lot of times they don't because, uh, then it screws up their appellate process, but I assume we'll hear from the family. What are you anticipating for, uh, sentencing and your final thoughts on all this, uh, Gigi? [01:05:28] Speaker 3: I don't think Corey will speak for that very reason. You know, she still has some, some trial. She has another trial to go with multiple financial charges. I'm interested to see at this point, she just pleads down, you know, and pleads guilty to it because there's not, you know, from where I'm standing, I'm not an attorney. I don't see much room for an appeal here. Um, everything was done pretty fairly and, and, you know, it was a tight ship. Uh, yeah. So hopefully after sentencing, the family can speak their piece to Corey and, and let, you know, she knows the loss. She just doesn't care about the loss. Uh, this is a woman who the night her husband is still laying in the floor. I can't talk to my kids, you know, that would have been my first place to run is to grab my kids and just hold them for comfort. Um, no, I think Corey's going to stand there and feel like she's been wrongfully accused, even though she knows what she did. Uh, but at least the families get to speak their piece and that's what it's about. And then we finally get to hear, you know, life in prison without the possibility of parole for taking a good man out of this world away from his family and a lot of people, um, whose lives he touched. So I'm ready for it. Let's put this baby to bed and, you know, more focus on Eric. Now let's tell his story. Let's talk about him and the kind of man he was, uh, and because we know who Corey is. And sometimes these victims get lost in the hoopla and, uh, I really want to start doing some more pieces on the victims themselves to tell what we never heard. And, you know, a lot of times it makes that loss more profound because you learn they really were good people aside from just being a father and, you know, the defining roles that they're the most important to us. But it's also these things like making sure kids can play, you know, I think that people need to know about Eric. And so I'm really looking forward to hopefully being able to tell that, uh, in the future, um, to bring light to him and any other victim, you know, that I cover. [01:07:16] Speaker 1: Yeah, no, that's, that's, uh, important and necessary. And I don't think we, none of us do enough of that. Uh, there's a final question here, uh, from Sarah Gigi. What is the dynamic, uh, between the sisters talking about the rich and sisters? I didn't see them interacting. Love your channel. Any, any take on, uh, on that. I'm a clueless. [01:07:35] Speaker 3: Uh, I think the means, I keep my nose in my lane, but, um, yeah, I really don't know. [01:07:40] Speaker 1: Yeah. I'm not sure. Family dynamics can get interesting. I, I didn't even, I didn't notice that. I had no idea. Um, everything else was just icing on the cake. Bloodworth is a boss and I'm sure he's, uh, breathing a sigh of relief today. Uh, Jeremy from Minnesota. Have a wonderful day. Look forward to your show. Uh, so I'm glad you reminded me, Jeremy, no show tonight. That's because my daughter is starring in Aladdin. She's in sixth grade. She confided in me. She's got some butterflies. She's a little nervous. Uh, so we've got, we've got to play tonight and tomorrow night and tomorrow. I totally forgot Carmen. I, oh, she's in fourth grade. What did I say? Sixth grade. She's in fourth grade. My apologies. The other one's in sixth grade. Um, tomorrow, Carmen, I, uh, are speaking before a, uh, luncheon of women, roughly her age who are interested in Carmen's story. Uh, so that ought to be fun and exciting for me. Uh, but we'll be doing that. So actually no show tomorrow. Then we're back Thursday and, uh, we will pick it up on Thursday, but a huge thanks to, uh, Gigi. Please subscribe to her YouTube channel. Pretty lies and alibis on your way in, hit the like button on your way out, hit the like button or hit it once. Don't hit it twice. Cause then you unlike the like, but also subscribe, please. We've got a Patreon page. Free lady. Love you. South Carolina, Greenville. [01:09:00] Speaker 3: Break a leg. Break a leg to your daughter. [01:09:03] Speaker 1: Love you. So thank you. Summit County, Utah and a justice for Eric Richens. We love you, Gigi. Be safe. And we will talk soon. Thank you everybody for joining. We'll see you. [01:09:12] Speaker 3: Bye everybody.