'I'm not yet done, relax!': Ligutan tells Narvasa after another defense objection — ANC

[0:00] to go to the booth accompanied by a council from the respondent in order to make sure [0:06] that indeed the USB identified by the witness is the same USB that will be played [0:12] in the tech booth of the Senate. [0:16] Okay. While they're doing that, may I propound the next question, your order, please? [0:24] Yes, council, you may proceed. [0:25] Mr. Witness, John Mark, listen. [0:27] Now, you mentioned, canina, that you authenticated the subject video by recording the same [0:35] through sinasabi mong open broadcaster software OBS, and then you compared the contents of the recording [0:44] and the subject video. That's one. [0:46] And you also said that you investigated certain statements made by the vice presidents on November 23, 2024. [0:53] Yung tanong, no? What particular statements of the vice president did the NBI deem proper to investigate? [1:04] The statement of the vice president where she uttered that she already talked to someone [1:10] to kill the president, the first lady, and the former speaker of the house if something's happened to her. [1:15] Okay, now, the next question now, Mr. Witness, is in what particular portion of the subject video, [1:25] in what particular portion of the subject video did the respondent utter that she already contracted a person killed? [1:43] Objection, your honor. [1:44] Oh, wait, wait, wait. [1:45] Allow the council to finish his question. [1:47] I'm not yet done. Relax. [1:51] To kill the president, the first lady, and the former speaker of the house. [2:01] Objection, your honor. [2:02] What? [2:02] What is the objection of counsel for responding? [2:05] Your honor, no basis for the question, your honor. [2:08] Wow. [2:10] Overall, witness may answer. [2:12] May I refer, sir, to my notes to identify the specific timestamp, sir? [2:18] Okay. [2:19] The witness may do so if it is available to him. [2:24] You may refer to your notes. [2:25] And while he's doing that, while the witness is doing that, Senator Judge Alan Cayetano is recognized. [2:35] You may proceed, sir. [2:36] Your honor, may I question what notes he is referring to? [2:39] Counsel for responding. [2:41] Apologies, sir. [2:41] The presiding officer recognized Senator Judge Alan Cayetano. [2:44] You may proceed, sir. [2:45] Just some thoughts, presiding officer. [2:47] This is not yet an appeal from your ruling and maybe a question to the counsel of the defense. [2:54] Just to refresh our memory, Rule 132, Section 17, when part of a transaction writing or record given in evidence, the remainder admissible. [3:05] When part of our act declaration, conversation, writing, or record is given in evidence by one party, the whole of the same subject may be inquired into by the other. [3:16] And when a detached act declaration, conversation, writing, or record is given in evidence, any act declaration, conversation, writing, or record necessary to its understanding may also be given in evidence. [3:30] So I'm not appealing yet. [3:32] I see the logic of the ruling of the presiding officer. [3:35] Ito lang po ang tanong ko, is the defense going to ask later on for the showing of the whole video? [3:43] Because if they are, why don't we just watch the whole of it? [3:48] Because we're going to have to assess the context, if it was really a threat, what did she say before or after. [3:57] And I don't really want to go home today believing one thing based on a two-minute clip and then come back next week to watch the two-hour clip. [4:08] I think most of us saw parts of the clip. [4:11] Of course, I don't also feel like watching the two-hour, I don't even watch two-and-a-half-hour movies, much less this. [4:19] But I'm just putting this at the feet of the presiding officer and my colleagues, na kung gagawin din naman natin eventually yung two-and-a-half hours, mas gusto ba natin putulin muna ngayon at may iniisip tayo, and then later on the two hours? [4:34] Or can the two parties agree of the two-and-a-half hours, which one yung my context? [4:40] So I'm not criticizing the prosecution's motion. [4:43] I see what you mean. [4:45] May I ask that one question to the defense, if they're going to ask, presiding officer, precisely? [4:52] For the presiding officer, we cannot dictate nor predict what either counsel for the prosecution or respondent will do during the presentation of their evidence-in-chief. [5:03] Even if they say yes to us now, actually they have every right to change their mind and not do so anymore. [5:10] But if they do answer now that they want it shown, may we consider, I mean, if I'm the only one who wants to see it as a whole, then I will submit to everyone else. [5:21] But if everyone else is saying we will eventually watch the whole of it, we might as well get it over and see the context of the whole video. [5:31] Unless the two parties can agree that they only want to look at 30 minutes or one hour, I don't know what context they're talking about. [5:39] I'm just trying to expedite Mr. President, officer. [5:41] Both parties, both parties, Senator Judge Allan Cayetano, mark the same video. [5:46] Yes. May I ask the... [5:47] Which is over two hours. [5:49] May I just ask the defense, do they plan to ask us to watch the whole... [5:54] Council for Defense will please reply to the question of Senator Judge Cayetano. [5:59] First, Your Honor, precisely why we're asking to watch the video is because we don't know what the contents of that video is. [6:07] We don't know if it's any different or the same with our video. [6:10] And to answer the question of the Honorable Senator, we will be asking the entire two-hour 26-minute video to be presented and watched later on during our cross. [6:23] So on that point, Mr. President and presiding officer, hindi naman nakalagay sa Section 17 when. [6:31] And usually, at least for myself, if I have to watch 30 minutes and then may emphasize na 30 seconds, 2 minutes, 1 minute, [6:39] Pinapanood muna yung buo and then saka papanood rin yung maikle na ine-emphasize para walang pre-judgment. [6:47] Kasi pag nauna yung portions na maliliit and then saka mo lang sasabihin later on, ah, eto pala context neto. [6:55] Medyo umiiba. [6:57] But again, I'm only one of the 24. [6:59] So I leave it to my colleagues. [7:02] If we're going to have to watch it anyway, may I ask the presiding officer what the pleasure is. [7:07] But since the rule doesn't say, personally, I'd rather watch the whole thing and get it over with [7:12] than allow the prosecution to pick out the portions that quickly say, um, that goes into the, you know, [7:20] the center of the controversy or what they want to prove. [7:23] Without disagreeing with, um, Senator Judge Cayetano, um, for the presiding officer, [7:30] it's just that I don't think the court should impose or dictate upon either party how they will present their evidence in chief. [7:41] Um, although it would save the court some time if they, but we can also waste a lot of time arguing about this, um, [7:48] instead of listening, watching the two-minute video. [7:51] Mr. Presiding officer, I'm not saying we dictate because there was an object in your rule. [7:56] You can change your ruling or we can appeal. [7:58] But I'm saying I'm just one. [7:59] So if everyone agrees na portion muna, I will submit to that. [8:03] But if everyone else thinks na panorin na yung buo, then baka we can, uh, I can appeal your ruling without voting. [8:10] So I'm just bringing up this issue for expediency, but I leave it up to what everyone else thinks about it. [8:15] Your Honor, if I may, we also move for the reconsideration of the earlier ruling of the Honorable Court. [8:21] The council cannot move for reconsideration of the ruling of the chair. [8:25] Only a senator judge can do so. [8:27] Your Honor, may we manifest that we intend to present the whole during cross-examination, Your Honor. [8:34] The presiding officer declares a brief recess. [8:37] Thank you so much, Your Honor. [8:38] Okay, matapos nga na ilatag ng prosekusyon ang authenticity nitong dokumento na magpapatunay naman ng authenticity or truthfulness ng video [9:04] kung saan nag-issue o nagsabi ng pagbabanta itong si Vice President Sara Duterte, [9:14] ay nagkaroon sila ngayon ng pagtatalo kung ang gagawin ba nila ay pagpresenta ng parte lamang ng video ng yon o yung kabuoan. [9:27] Kasama natin ngayon sa studio si Atty. Tranquil Salvador, siya ang ating resident legal analyst habang sinusubaybayan natin ang mga huling kaganapan dito sa impeachment trial ni Vice President Sara Duterte. [9:40] Kanina po po tayo nag-uusap, Atty. Tranquil, kung bakit nga ba kinakailangang pag-usapan pa itong parte, pagpapakita ng parte o kabuoan nitong video na ito. [9:52] Ang tanong ko, bakit pa nila pinagdaanan ang mahabang diskusyon tungkol sa authenticity nitong video na ito at yung kredibilidad nitong witness na si NBI agent John Mark Kalilong, [10:10] kung parte lamang ng video ang siyang ipapakita ng prosekusyon? [10:15] Tama yung tanong mo. I think yun yung pinag-uusapan natin kanina. [10:19] Kailangan natin maintindihan na yung video ay buong video. [10:24] Ngayon, nag-refer siya sa Rule 132, Section 17. Alala mo, yung kanina, ang prosekusyon. [10:29] Sabi niya, while totoo yun na pwede ako magpresenta ng bahagi at pwede mong tanongin ang kabuoan nung aking pinipresenta, [10:38] prerogative po yan bilang prosekusyon. [10:40] Kaya nga nag-object ang depensa, sabi ng depensa, hindi gusto namin, pakita mo lahat. [10:45] At may isang senador ang nagsabi, kung papanoorin natin rin yung kabuoan nito, e maitaswell panoorin na natin. [10:52] Ngayon kasi, for further discussion, makikita mo kasi, kung 18 seconds lamang, depende kung gusto mo pa paano mo ilalatag yung kaso mo eh. [11:03] Pag gusto mo makita, yung galit na eh. Heightened na. [11:05] Siyempre, ang depensa, palagi ko lamang, pag gusto nila, lahat para bahala ka ng sumuri kung tama ba yung konteksto ng galit niya. [11:13] In fact, yun ang sinabi ng defense, that context in so many words is key. [11:18] Kailangan malaman sa kabuoan kung ano ang konteksto. [11:21] Pero, nakanino ngayon ang desisyon? Kasi syempre, ito ang gusto ng prosecution. Parte lamang. Ang gusto ng defense, buo na. [11:33] Ang gusto ni Sen. Judge Allen Peter Cayetano, katulad po nang sinabi niyo, e kung ipapakita rin naman ang kabuoan at some point of the trial, bakit hindi pa na yun? [11:43] So, nakanino ang desisyon at ano dapat ang mangyari? [11:48] Nasa ano yan, nasa presiding officer na yun. Nasa sa kanya yan, kung sa tikin niya, for expediency and better understanding of the case, sige, presenta natin. [11:58] Bunuin na natin kahit na dalawang oras, panuorin natin. Para makita natin kung ano talagang ibig sabihin, kung anong tunay nangyari. [12:05] Kasi kahit naman tayo, hindi naman natin nakapanood yung dalawang oras na yun, di ba? [12:07] So, nasa sa kanya yan. Kung naman sa kitan niya, for purposes of matapos na itong testigo na ito, yung 18 seconds lang na yun, pwede rin niyang gawin yun. [12:17] Kasi ano siya, actually it's from 2 hours and 26 minutes, yan po yung kabuoan, to 2 minutes and 18 seconds. [12:25] 2 minutes and 18, tama. So, malaking difference, di ba? Ang laking bulk ng entire video. [12:31] Pero anong pwedeng nandun sa kabuoan na magbibigay, na importante na makita ng publiko at gustong isulong halimbawa ng defense? [12:42] Kasi yun ang gusto nila. At ano naman, what purpose will it serve for the prosecution to just get a portion of it? [12:49] Ano naman ang kaiging yan? [12:50] Sa prosecution. Yung sa prosecution, pag yung 2 minutes, 18 seconds na yan, direkto na eh. Yung galit, yung threat, ayun na. [12:59] So, hindi ko na kailangan, hindi pa na tayo kailangan maghintay, manood, mainit, na baka naman, hindi naman yung gusto nila ilatag eh. [13:08] Siyempre, sa depensa naman, gusto nila marinig ninyo. Kasi baka makita nyo naman kung paano nag-build up yung galit na yun. [13:16] Sa nagsimula yung threat na sinasabi na yun, na makita nyo kung talagang yun talaga ang gusto niyang sabihin. [13:23] So, that is where you are right now. And the ball is really with the presiding officer. [13:27] And this completely ties up with what you were saying earlier on in our coverage. [13:32] Tandaan po natin, nung mga alas 12 po ng tanghali, ay dumating si Vice President Sara Duterte. [13:39] Hindi para mag-appear dito at makilahok mag-participate sa impeachment trial, kundi ang sabi ay mag-meeting sa kanyang defense team. [13:48] Pero kung nasubaybayan nyo po yung aming coverage kanina, ang sabi po ni Attorney Salvador, maaring parte ito ng strategiya ng defense. [13:57] Para ipakita ang kaanyuan ngayon ni VP Sara kumpara sa anong maaring ipakita ng prosecution ng kaanyuan niya nung nagsabi siya ng mga katagang yun. [14:08] Yes. [14:09] Through a press conference. [14:10] Kung baga, ibang buka ang makikita nila. Makita mo, iba na yung gupet. Iba na kulay ng buhok. Iba na rin yung, ano niya, yung, she's very light kanina. [14:20] Yung aura niya. [14:21] Yung aura niya, she's very light. [14:22] Tapos ang dating sa kanya, handa naman ako na ako ay magiging madugo itong proseso. [14:27] So, balik tayo dun sa kapag pinakita ng buo itong 2 hours and 26 minute long na video, maari ba itong itahe dun sa kung ano ang nakita natin kaanyuan ni VP Sara kanina? [14:42] Kanina. Maari. Maari yun itahe. At the same time, dun sa mga talagang nagtsatsaga ng panuuri nito, sila mismo makaka-arrive sa conclusion. [14:52] Ah, ganito pala tunay na nangyari. Kahit nga hindi natin susugan ito eh. Kahit hindi nga natin paliwanag. Iba, pag nakita na yung buo nila, they could arrive at their own conclusion. [15:00] But then, ang sasabihin naman ng prosecution, even if it's a portion or the whole of the 2 hours, hindi yan mabubura yung fact na sinabi yun ni VP Sara. [15:14] Exactly. At the same time, sinabi rin ng prosecution, eh may bahagi, may panahon naman para mag-presenta kayo. Di-presenta nyo yung dalawang oras. [15:22] Kaya lang, alam nyo yun, from now until they present evidence would be a difference of probably 2 months. [15:28] Hindi naman kasi basta magpipresenta ng ebidensya yung defensa eh. Kasi kada artikulo sila yan, puro sila yan eh. [15:36] So napresenta na ngayon, napag-usapan na, pwedeng mainit na ang usapin. Later na lang yun, pakikita yung dalawang oras na yun. [15:44] I think the impeachment trial is set to resume once again. Balik tayo sa Senado. [15:51] Binigin nyo ng tubig yung witness. [15:55] Trial is resumed. During the break, the presiding officer had a discussion with the senator judges, including Senator Cayetano. [16:11] Chair, the presiding officer would therefore like to make of record the following. [16:15] Number one, should the defense, should the counsel for the respondent rather, decide as it has manifested to present the entire video, [16:26] this court shall allow it during the time for the respondent to present its evidence in chief. [16:33] We will not interfere with how each party or either party presents their case. [16:39] With a caveat, the portion of an entire video being presented is not only to save on time, [16:48] but also to be able to support the allegations from the point of view of the prosecution [16:55] insofar as their articles of impeachment is concerned. [16:59] Doubt, no need to say that the counsel for the respondent will also present the evidence that they deem best [17:05] that will prove the innocence of the respondent in this case. [17:11] Senator Judge Cayetano. [17:15] The mic, please, of Senator Judge Cayetano. [17:18] Sir presiding officer, I submit and I think there's a consensus. [17:23] May I ask just one question about authentication? [17:25] I may proceed, sir. [17:25] I want to be clarified with my indulgence to the prosecution and defense. [17:30] Just to the witness, please correct me, kasi hindi ako teki talaga dyan. [17:35] So sabi mo, pag inauthenticate mo, you get the video, tapos may hash. [17:41] Yes, Your Honor. [17:41] So you get the hash, tapos you download the video, tama po ba? [17:45] No, Your Honor. [17:46] The video was screen recorded, Your Honor. [17:49] Okay, so screen recorded, then yung hash na nakuha mo. [17:52] Yung hash value po is kinalculate from the recorded po. [17:56] Okay, then you have to compare that with the original one, right? [17:59] Yes, Your Honor. [18:00] So the original one, yung hash nyan, nasa Facebook, tama ba? [18:04] Ah, yung hash po, hindi po kinalculate yung hash from the Facebook. [18:08] Kasi ang purpose po ng hash value is to calculate po yung value ng mismo video na nirecord ko. [18:15] Dahil hindi po siya yung for authentication purpose, but for the integrity of the video that I screen recorded na. [18:23] If matampered siya during the time na sinamit siya until presented in court, makikita po na iba po yung hash value. [18:29] So is there a possibility na iba yung hash ng Facebook for the same video sa hash nung sayo? [18:36] Magkaiba po talaga yun. [18:37] Magkaiba. [18:38] But how do you know? [18:39] Magkaiba. [18:40] Magkaiba. [18:41] Magkaiba. [18:42] Magkaiba. [18:43] Magkaiba. [18:44] Magkaiba. [18:45] Magkaiba. [18:46] Magkaiba. [18:47] Magkaiba. [18:48] Magkaiba. [18:49] Magkaiba. [18:50] Magkaiba. [18:51] Magkaiba. [18:52] Magkaiba. [18:53] Magkaiba. [18:54] Magkaiba. [18:56] Magkaiba. [18:57] Magkaiba. [18:58] Magkaiba. [18:59] Magkaiba. [19:00] Magkaiba. [19:01] Magkaiba. [19:02] Magkaiba. [19:03] Magkaiba. [19:04] Magkaiba. [19:05] Magkaiba. [19:06] Magkaiba.