'How Many Extremist Islamic Groups... Do You Have On Your Hate Map?': Chip Roy Grills SPLC President

[0:00] Texas is recognized. I thank the chairman. I thank the witnesses. I'd like to observe Mr. [0:05] Bangert. We both served in the Office of the Attorney General of the state of Texas. I want [0:08] to thank you for your service there. Mr. Fair, in 2012, the Family Research Council was attacked, [0:19] and the guard in the front of the building was shot. The head of the Family Research Council, [0:26] Tony Perkins, made quite note at the time of Southern Poverty Law Center's involvement in that [0:32] in putting Family Research Council on their so-called hate map. Has the SPLC ever acknowledged [0:40] that its designation contributed to that attack? Congressman Roy? Yes or no? I can't answer that [0:49] question with the yes or no. You asked me if I heard — Did they retract, correct, or reconsider the [0:54] listing of the Family Research Council on its hate map? The Family Research Council is listed on our [1:02] hate map because it meets the criteria — To this day, you continue to keep the Family Research [1:06] Council on its hate map. Is that true? The Family Research Council remains on the hate map because [1:13] it meets the criteria that we use — Which criteria? The Family Research Council is an anti-LGBTQ — Okay, [1:21] so on your website, you used to have language on there defending your position on the Family Research [1:25] Council, and you had language saying that other groups, like Focus on the Family, are not included, [1:32] and you used that as your defense. Well, that language is now gone, and Focus on the Family is now [1:39] noted as a hate group. Mr. Roy — Can you explain that? Congressman Roy, we take no pleasure in listing [1:45] any group, and we wish the list was empty. But we have the constitutional right to express our opinion — How [1:52] many leftist anti-Jewish groups do you have listed on your website? Name them. Anyone listening to this can go to [2:01] our website and see our — again, our year in hate and extremism report was released this morning — How [2:08] many extremist Islamic groups do you have of the 1,500 or so organizations you have on your hate map? [2:14] Again, anyone can go to our website — My office has been looking over and we can't really find one. [2:21] Again, it is the SPLC's — You think SPLC could provide us a list of the Islamic-oriented groups [2:28] that you have on your hate map? Mr. Roy, we don't target any group because of its religion. [2:34] Really? I want to be clear about that. Really? [2:36] Yes, that's exactly right. We target no group because of its religion. We target groups because [2:42] they express statements and engage in activities that demean and vilify — So you brought up [2:49] LGBTQ groups a second ago? I'm sorry, Mr. Roy. [2:51] So you brought up LGBT groups a minute ago, so you think there's a bunch of Islamic groups that are [2:55] pro-LGBTQ? Is that the position of the SPLC? I just want to make sure the record is reflecting that. [3:03] Mr. Roy, as I said, we target no group or label no group because of its religion. We target groups [3:11] and label groups because of what they say about others. And we have a constitutional right to do [3:16] that. And we will continue to do that. How long did it take for you to criticize [3:22] the attacks on October 7th? Mr. Roy — Was it immediate? [3:33] We were clear and loud about our criticism of the Hamas attack on Israel on October 7th. [3:39] My research shows that it took you at least three weeks to finally say anything, [3:42] and then you attacked and criticized Israel. Mr. Roy — [3:47] Do you think the record reflects that, or am I incorrect? [3:50] Mr. Roy, as I said, the SPLC has a 55-year history of fighting antisemitism. It speaks for itself. [4:03] And yet the response to the targeting of the Family Research Council was to defend yourself for having [4:10] focus on the family, and then you immediately — and you pulled down from the website that defense. [4:14] It was your only defense. Well, first, Mr. Roy, speakers in the United States don't need to [4:22] defend their speech. We have free speech. And so everyone should understand that. [4:29] Yeah, you do here on the record have to defend the position of an organization that has now been [4:34] indicted and has superseding indictment based on very clear indications of the way the money is flowing [4:39] in order to target very specific groups and to potentially defraud your donors. Not to mention, [4:46] by the way, banks. If I had a little more time, I'd like to have a little bit more conversation about [4:51] debanking and your engagement with banking. But the last question I'll ask you is, [4:56] with respect to Charlie Kirk, have you all taken any position since Charlie Kirk to — [5:05] Mr. Roy, we unequivocally condemned the murder of Charlie Kirk. [5:08] What about the listing of Charlie Kirk? [5:14] It is our position that TPUSA expresses views and vilifies other people based on immutable characteristics, [5:24] exposing them to our listing. [5:27] Mr. Chairman, I have a couple of unanimous consent requests. [5:29] Objection. [5:30] I have several documents here. [5:33] November 2025, Hate Watch from the Southern Property Law Center, in which [5:37] hearing — or the work that I've done on Sharia law was included in Hate Watch without objection. [5:47] Another one here, anti-Muslim bigotry, in which work we did in this very room, [5:52] in the subcommittee on the Constitution, highlighting concerns of Sharia law were [5:56] included in the Hate Watch. I'd like to insert those in the record. [5:58] Without objection. [5:59] Gentleman yields back. [6:00] Mr. Chairman, I have you see — [6:02] Gentleman's recognized. [6:03] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move to enter into the record a letter from the Jewish Council of Public Affairs.