House convenes hearing on Southern Poverty Law Center turmoil

[0:00] You're not going to prosecute. [0:02] Nope, you're not going to do it because it's too valuable politically. [0:07] And here's the scary part. [0:09] And I'm sure we'll have questions for Mr. Fair later on about this. [0:12] Here's the scary part. [0:13] It all worked. [0:15] Field Source 37, the guy at the Charlottesville rally, [0:17] helped plan that rally, coordinate transportation there, [0:20] was paid to attend. [0:22] After the event, again, after the event where a lady was killed, [0:27] the Southern Property Law Center almost tripled their income. [0:30] $51 million to $133 million after they were coordinating the hate [0:39] that took place at that crazy rally. [0:43] You run a scam, you become the standard, you don't get prosecuted, [0:45] and you make a ton of money. [0:47] They got $800 million assets, $700 million in an endowment, such a deal. [0:53] And they would have gotten away with it but for the oversight of Congress [0:56] and, more importantly, the work of the Justice Department. [0:59] So God bless the Attorney General and the work him and his team are doing. [1:03] And we look forward to hearing from our witnesses today [1:06] and asking them questions. [1:08] And with that, I would yield to the ranking member for an opening statement. [1:15] Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. [1:17] Welcome to our witnesses. [1:19] Created in 1971 and headquartered in Montgomery, Alabama. [1:27] Created in 1971, headquartered in Montgomery, Alabama. [1:30] The Southern Poverty Law Center is one of America's leading civil rights groups. [1:34] It fights for voting rights throughout the South, economic justice, [1:38] and criminal justice reform. [1:39] Like every major civil rights group in our history, [1:42] it's been subjected to serious white supremacist violence. [1:46] Its leaders have been threatened and attacked since its founding. [1:49] And SPLC headquarters were firebombed in 1983 by members of the Ku Klux Klan [1:55] who were convicted of conspiracy in federal court. [1:58] After this attack and escalating racial terror, [2:01] the SPLC added to its work a focus on the Klan and neo-Nazi groups [2:05] and other purveyors of hate violence and white supremacy. [2:08] In 1988, the SPLC litigated against the Southern Whites of the Ku Klux Klan, [2:14] the Southern White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, [2:16] and drove them into bankruptcy, [2:18] winning a million-dollar damages verdict [2:20] on behalf of more than 50 peaceful civil rights marchers [2:24] in Forsyth County, Georgia, [2:26] who had been savagely attacked and injured by the Klan. [2:30] In 2019, it brought a $14 million judgment [2:34] and won it against the neo-Nazi founder of the Daily Stormer [2:38] for orchestrating an anti-Semitic troll storm harassment campaign [2:43] consisting of more than 700 death threats and vile abuse [2:48] against a Jewish woman and her family. [2:51] The SPLC has defended the rights of anyone and everyone [2:55] targeted for hate violence, oppression, and murder. [2:58] Today, it's under attack by the Trump administration and MAGA. [3:02] Like the Voting Rights Act of 1965, [3:04] the great legislative achievement of the modern civil rights movement, [3:07] now dismantled by the Roberts Court, [3:10] the SPLC is an enduring institutional beacon of hope [3:14] for millions of people seeking to create a more perfect union. [3:19] The Trump administration is thus naturally trying to tear it down. [3:23] I've heard three main arguments for this astonishing crusade. [3:27] The first is that the age of racism and white supremacy violence [3:31] is over in the 21st century. [3:34] And so the SPLC's work is unnecessary. [3:37] Well, this is plainly ridiculous. [3:39] We live in an age of resurgent racial injustice, [3:42] profound economic inequality, [3:44] and relentless assault on the right to vote. [3:46] Racist violence still permeates our society. [3:49] In recent memory, avowed racists and white supremacists [3:53] have killed 23 people in the El Paso Walmart Massacre, [3:57] 11 people worshiping at the Tree of Life Synagogue [4:00] in the worst anti-Semitic attack in American history, [4:04] 10 people who were killed shopping for groceries [4:07] in the Buffalo Supermarket Massacre, [4:10] 9 worshiping parishioners were gunned down [4:13] at the Mother Emanuel Church Massacre [4:16] in Charleston, South Carolina, [4:17] and 8 people were killed at the Atlanta spa shootings. [4:21] To name just five examples out of thousands, [4:25] in 2024 alone, [4:26] the FBI recorded nearly 12,000 hate crime episodes [4:30] in our country. [4:31] Just a few weeks ago, [4:33] three fathers died defending their mosque [4:37] and 140 children at worship services in San Diego [4:42] against two fanatical white supremacist teenagers [4:46] jacked up on white great replacement theory [4:49] and far-right neo-Nazi ideology [4:51] who took their own lives, tragically, after the attack. [4:56] But here's the second argument they use. [4:58] They say, well, even if there's all this violence [5:00] that we're engulfed in, [5:01] the Southern Poverty Law Center itself [5:03] is responsible for the violence that we see around us. [5:08] The basis for this outlandish claim [5:10] is that for decades, at least since the 1990s, [5:13] the SBLC has infiltrated [5:15] and investigated the Klan, [5:18] neo-Nazis, and other groups [5:19] by paying informants who go undercover. [5:23] The purpose of these operations [5:24] is obviously to derail [5:26] and prevent white supremacist hate crimes and actions, [5:30] both the kinds of hate crimes [5:31] and shooting sprees we see all around us, [5:33] but even more massive terrorist attacks [5:36] like the Oklahoma City federal building bombing, [5:39] which took the lives of 168 Americans, [5:43] many of them children, [5:44] who were in a daycare center [5:45] when the white nationalists unleashed their terrorism [5:49] on the people of Oklahoma. [5:51] In the course of their work [5:52] to investigate the extreme right, [5:54] the SBLC has worked closely with the FBI for decades [5:57] and turned over to the Bureau [5:59] voluminous information, tips and leads [6:02] from their field sources [6:03] for further investigation, criminal arrest, and prosecution. [6:06] In 2017, the FBI listed the SPLC [6:11] as one of its partners on its website, [6:14] where it remained for eight or nine years [6:16] before this administration. [6:18] There's nothing new about that work, [6:21] but now Todd Blanch and the Trump DOJ in Alabama [6:24] have twisted and corrupted [6:25] this proud history of cooperation [6:28] with law enforcement [6:29] to bring an 11-count criminal indictment [6:32] against the SPLC, [6:35] claiming that it was defrauding its own donors. [6:39] This is amazing, [6:40] given not only that the SPLC donors and supporters [6:43] cherish and prize the group [6:46] precisely for its ability to get information in its way [6:49] to stop hate crimes, [6:51] but also, incredible, [6:53] because the FBI itself uses the exact same practices [6:56] for its own investigative work, [6:58] spending in the neighborhood [6:59] of not $3 or $4 million [7:01] on undercover informants, [7:03] but more than $40 million a year [7:05] on undercover informants. [7:07] There's nothing illegal about that. [7:09] SPLC donors are not claiming fraud. [7:14] They were proud to support this program. [7:16] Even the extremist groups themselves [7:17] understood they were being infiltrated [7:19] and were constantly looking for the traitors, [7:22] the spies. [7:23] Well, my friends, [7:26] we know what a real fraud looks like. [7:28] Consider a fraud called Trump University, [7:32] a scam from top to bottom [7:34] where 9,000 victims joined [7:36] three different class action lawsuits [7:38] to complain about the fact [7:40] that they were cheated out of thousands of dollars [7:42] for a university that existed in name only, [7:45] without a real curriculum, [7:47] without real professors, [7:48] without an actual campus, [7:51] or any way to keep [7:52] their extravagant and seductive promises. [7:56] To their students, [7:57] the thousands of outraged victims [7:59] were not silent. [8:00] They came forward to complain, [8:02] and they won a $25 million settlement [8:05] against Donald Trump [8:08] and the purveyors of this fraud. [8:09] One former instructor at Trump University [8:12] said it, quote, [8:14] preyed upon the elderly and uneducated [8:16] to separate them from their money. [8:17] Another former instructor said [8:19] the institution was, quote, [8:21] a total lie. [8:22] That's what real fraud looks like. [8:24] What have SPLC's donors done [8:26] in light of this criminal indictment? [8:28] They've not lined up [8:29] to file class action suits [8:31] or to denounce the SPLC. [8:33] They continue to support the SPLC's works. [8:36] Donations to the organization [8:37] have gone up [8:38] since this fraudulent indictment [8:40] was brought down by the Trump administration. [8:42] Well, the final complaint [8:44] I've heard from members of this committee [8:46] speaking on behalf of certain groups [8:48] who take exception [8:49] to being called hate groups [8:51] by the SPLC. [8:53] So they're mad that certain groups [8:55] that they like are called hate groups. [8:56] And I can appreciate [8:57] why people don't want to be called a hate group. [9:00] I don't like a lot of things [9:02] that are said about me [9:03] and the groups that I like. [9:05] Stephen Miller said, [9:06] the Democrat Party is not a political party. [9:08] It's a domestic extremist organization. [9:11] I don't like that. [9:12] Kristi Noem called Alex Preddy [9:14] and Renee Good [9:15] law-abiding citizens [9:17] shot down by ICE [9:18] domestic terrorists. [9:21] Donald Trump said [9:22] that Democratic donors [9:23] like George Soros and Reid Offman [9:24] were funding a conspiracy [9:26] for domestic terrorists. [9:29] Look, under our First Amendment, [9:31] love and hate [9:31] exist in the eye of the beholder. [9:34] Donald Trump has repeatedly said [9:35] that January 6th [9:36] was a day of love [9:37] when our police officers [9:38] were bathed in hugs and kisses [9:41] from the Proud Boys [9:42] and the insurrectionists. [9:44] For most of us [9:44] who lived through [9:45] that violent insurrection, [9:46] it wasn't a day of love. [9:47] It was a day of hatred [9:48] and sickening violence. [9:50] But that's the great thing [9:51] about the First Amendment. [9:52] It's up to you. [9:53] You can say whatever you want. [9:54] If you don't like the fact [9:55] that someone's called you a hate group, [9:57] then you get up [9:58] and then you rebut them. [9:59] You denounce them. [10:01] I've heard Chairman Jordan [10:02] say it a dozen times [10:03] in our hearings. [10:04] And I agree with him. [10:05] The proper response [10:06] to speech you don't like [10:07] is counter speech, [10:09] not government prosecution, [10:12] not government censorship. [10:14] Counterpose honest speech [10:15] to dishonest speech. [10:17] The truth to the lies. [10:18] Let the public figure it out. [10:20] Whatever happens, [10:21] I disagree with everything you say, [10:22] but I will stand with my life [10:25] for your right to say it. [10:27] We need less vendetta [10:28] and more Voltaire. [10:30] All of this is a disgrace. [10:32] When DOJ was founded in 1870, [10:34] 156 years ago, [10:36] it was to protect [10:38] the newly freed African Americans [10:40] against the Ku Klux Klan, [10:42] which was rampaging [10:44] violence throughout the South. [10:46] Todd Blanche has capsized [10:48] DOJ's commitment [10:49] to the rights of all [10:50] and disgraced the department. [10:52] He has directed DOJ [10:54] to savage the SPLC [10:56] while he does everything [10:57] in his power [10:58] with the president [10:59] to aid and abet [11:00] the right-wing extremists [11:01] who commit acts of violence [11:04] against racial minorities. [11:05] Just two weeks after [11:06] becoming acting AG, [11:08] he moved to vacate [11:10] the criminal convictions [11:11] of the leaders [11:12] of the Proud Boys [11:13] and Oath Keepers [11:13] for seditious conspiracy. [11:16] They were convicted [11:16] and sentenced to jail [11:18] for many, many years. [11:20] Seditious conspiracy means [11:21] working to overthrow [11:23] the government [11:24] of the United States. [11:25] These were crimes so toxic [11:27] that President Trump [11:28] wouldn't even pardon them [11:29] when he was pardoning en masse [11:31] more than 1,600 other [11:33] cop-beating, racist [11:35] January 6 rioters [11:37] and insurrectionists. [11:38] These are the people [11:38] that the DOJ now protects. [11:41] And now, Todd Blanche [11:42] wants to create [11:43] a $1.776 billion [11:45] taxpayer-funded slush fund [11:48] to turn the January 6 foot soldiers [11:51] into mega-millionaires. [11:53] And while Blanche was at it, [11:55] he signed an outrageous [11:56] superpardon to give [11:58] not just Donald Trump, [11:58] but his entire family [11:59] and all their businesses [12:00] complete in total immunity [12:02] from any investigation, [12:04] audit, lawsuit, or prosecution [12:06] by any federal agency [12:08] for any criminal [12:09] or civil violation [12:11] against the United States [12:12] up until this point. [12:13] And while systematically firing [12:15] prosecutors and FBI agents [12:17] who worked on [12:18] the January 6 investigation, [12:20] the largest criminal probe [12:21] in American history, [12:23] Trump and Blanche [12:24] are putting January 6 rioters, [12:26] violent extremists, [12:27] and their closest allies [12:28] in key positions [12:30] throughout the DOJ. [12:32] Like Jared Wise, [12:33] who urged writers [12:34] to kill police officers [12:35] on January 6. [12:37] Like Ed Martin, [12:38] who defended violent cop beaters, [12:41] both as a defense attorney [12:42] and a federal prosecutor. [12:44] He's been given free reign now [12:46] as DOJ's pardon attorney, [12:48] despite his long history [12:50] of consorting with neo-Nazis. [12:52] Donald Trump nominated [12:53] Paul Ingrassia three years [12:55] out of law school [12:56] to run the ethics watchdog [12:58] office of the special counsel [12:59] and stood by him [13:01] after it was revealed [13:01] that he admitted to having, [13:03] quote, [13:04] a bit of a Nazi streak in him. [13:08] And he wrote that [13:09] the Martin Luther King holiday [13:11] should be tossed [13:12] into the seventh circle of hell. [13:14] The Department of Defense [13:16] hired Elias Irizarry, [13:18] an unqualified, [13:19] inexperienced, [13:20] 24-year-old Trump loyalist [13:22] and convicted J6 rioter [13:24] who was pardoned [13:25] by the president [13:25] to work on irregular warfare [13:28] and counterterrorism, [13:30] and so on. [13:32] We understand [13:33] that the extremist swamp [13:36] that gave rise [13:37] to this criminal indictment [13:39] against the SPLC [13:40] is just one more [13:41] Orwellian attack [13:42] on the civil rights movement [13:44] and one more Kafka-esque [13:45] prosecution designed [13:47] to shame [13:47] and ensnare the righteous [13:49] and acquit [13:50] and absolve the guilty. [13:52] It is a tissue of lies [13:53] that will join the pantheon [13:55] of debunked, [13:56] fraudulent prosecutions [13:57] that DOJ has been excoriated for [14:00] by dozens of judges [14:02] across the land, [14:03] appointed by all different presidents. [14:05] A few weeks ago, [14:06] a federal judge in Rhode Island, [14:07] Judge McElroy, [14:08] called the government's submissions [14:10] in a case misleading, [14:11] if not utterly false. [14:13] Another judge, [14:14] said that DOJ attorneys [14:15] had submitted a patently [14:17] false allegation to the court. [14:19] Another judge rejected [14:20] administration officials' testimony [14:22] as disingenuous, [14:23] squalid, [14:24] and dishonorable. [14:25] And another court [14:26] found the administration [14:27] had provided [14:28] a highly misleading, [14:30] if not intentionally false, [14:31] sworn declaration, [14:33] so disingenuous [14:34] that the court is left [14:36] with little confidence [14:37] that the United States [14:38] can be trusted [14:39] to tell the truth [14:40] about anything. [14:41] I predict [14:43] it will not be long [14:44] before another federal judge [14:45] casts this obscene [14:47] prosecution to the winds. [14:49] I'm only sorry, [14:50] the great name [14:50] of the House Judiciary Committee [14:52] has now been made [14:53] an accomplice [14:54] to this fraud [14:55] against the court [14:56] in the country. [14:57] I yield back to you, [14:57] Mr. Chairman. [14:58] The gentleman yields back. [14:59] I don't think [15:00] we're part of the fraud. [15:01] I think the Southern Popular Law Center [15:02] was defrauding their donors. [15:03] Without objection, [15:04] all other opening statements [15:05] will be included [15:06] in the record. [15:07] Today's witnesses, [15:08] Dr. Alvita King [15:09] is the chair [15:10] of the American Dream Initiative [15:11] at the American First Policy Institute. [15:13] She is the daughter [15:14] of civil rights activist [15:15] Reverend A.D. King [15:16] and the niece [15:16] of Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. [15:19] She is the founder [15:19] of Speak for Life, [15:21] an organization [15:22] that advocates [15:22] for the sanctity [15:23] and dignity [15:23] of human life. [15:25] Mr. Brian Fair [15:26] is the interim CEO [15:26] and president [15:27] of the Southern Poverty Law Center. [15:28] He previously served [15:29] as the chairman [15:30] of SPLC's board of directors. [15:32] Mr. Ryan Bangert [15:33] is the senior vice president [15:35] for strategic initiatives [15:36] and special counsel [15:37] to the president [15:37] at the Alliance Defending Freedom. [15:40] He previously served [15:40] in the office [15:41] of the Texas Attorney General [15:42] and was a litigation partner [15:43] at Baker Botts LLP. [15:46] And Professor Mary McCord [15:47] is a visiting professor of law [15:49] at the Georgetown University Law Center. [15:51] She previously served [15:51] in numerous roles [15:53] in the Department of Justice. [15:54] We welcome our witnesses [15:55] and thank them [15:56] for appearing today. [15:57] We'll begin by swearing you in. [15:58] You know how this works. [15:59] Would you please rise [16:00] and raise your right hand? [16:05] Do you swear or affirm [16:06] under penalty of perjury [16:07] that the testimony [16:07] you're about to give is true [16:09] and correct [16:09] to the best of your knowledge? [16:10] Information and belief [16:11] so help you God. [16:14] Records show [16:15] that the witnesses [16:15] have answered [16:16] in the affirmative. [16:17] Thank you. [16:18] Please be seated. [16:19] Please know that your written testimony [16:20] will be entered [16:21] into the record [16:21] in its entirety. [16:23] Accordingly, [16:23] we ask that you [16:24] summarize your testimony [16:25] in five minutes. [16:26] We're just going to start [16:27] with Mr. Fair [16:27] and we're going to go [16:28] right down the line. [16:29] So Mr. Fair, [16:30] you are recognized [16:30] for five minutes. [16:33] Good morning, [16:34] Chairman Jordan, [16:35] Ranking Member Raskin, [16:36] members of the committee. [16:38] Last July, [16:38] I took on a one-year leave [16:40] from teaching [16:41] to become the interim [16:42] head of the Southern Poverty Law Center. [16:44] So my testimony today [16:45] will be one of my [16:46] last official acts [16:48] in this role. [16:50] It has been one of the greatest honors [16:51] of my life [16:52] to work alongside [16:53] the talented, [16:54] dedicated, [16:55] and principled [16:55] SPLC staff. [16:58] For 55 years, [17:00] with the support [17:00] of generous donors [17:01] who appreciate our work, [17:03] the SPLC [17:04] has fought racial terror, [17:06] white supremacy, [17:07] and other forms [17:08] of discrimination and hate, [17:09] seeking to build [17:11] and defend [17:12] a multiracial democracy [17:13] where we can all [17:15] live and thrive. [17:16] That was the goal [17:17] of the Civil Rights Movement [17:18] and it is our mission. [17:20] We are known [17:21] for exposing [17:22] and dismantling [17:23] extremist hate groups. [17:25] We took on [17:25] the United Clans of America [17:26] whose hateful violence [17:28] killed four little girls [17:30] in the 16th Street [17:31] Baptist Church bombing [17:32] and we sued them [17:34] out of existence. [17:35] In the decades since, [17:37] hate has continued, [17:39] but so have our efforts [17:40] to expose it through litigation, [17:42] policy, research, [17:43] and education. [17:45] We fight for the underdog, [17:47] the poor, [17:48] the unhoused, [17:49] the hungry, [17:51] the incarcerated, [17:52] the disenfranchised, [17:53] the immigrant, [17:55] the outcast, [17:56] the vilified. [17:58] Many groups [17:58] and some in this room [18:00] have misrepresented [18:01] our work, [18:02] including our [18:03] confidential informant program [18:05] repeating various [18:06] false allegations. [18:08] Some say we've lost our way. [18:10] That's false. [18:12] We've never lost [18:13] our North Star, [18:14] a fair and just society [18:15] for every person. [18:17] All our programs [18:19] advance that mission. [18:22] Our work saves lives, [18:25] but it comes at a price. [18:28] Since our earliest days, [18:30] we've been targeted [18:31] by those who oppose our mission. [18:34] Our office was firebombed. [18:36] Our staff threatened. [18:38] Our leaders, [18:39] the target of assassination. [18:41] We know political violence. [18:43] We unequivocally condemn it. [18:45] However, [18:47] despite the danger, [18:48] we will not stop exposing hate. [18:51] This morning, [18:52] we released our annual [18:53] Year in Hate and Extremism Report. [18:55] It chronicles how the hard right [18:57] has weaponized [18:58] the levers of government [19:00] to weaken the political [19:01] and economic power [19:03] of non-whites, [19:04] immigrants, [19:05] women, [19:06] the LGBTQ plus community, [19:09] religious minorities, [19:10] and the poor. [19:11] The forces turning back [19:13] hard-won progress [19:14] against discrimination [19:15] are unrelenting [19:16] and unashamed. [19:18] The SPLC, [19:20] alongside many civil rights groups [19:22] and democracy defenders, [19:24] is resisting them. [19:26] To American people [19:26] of goodwill, [19:28] especially those [19:29] left out of the American promise, [19:31] your civic participation [19:32] matters now [19:34] more than any time [19:35] since the civil rights movement. [19:38] Today, [19:38] I'm joined by several people [19:40] who inspire our work. [19:42] First, [19:43] Ms. Karen Finn [19:44] and her son Aaron are here. [19:47] Aaron faced expulsion [19:48] from school [19:49] for alleged conduct [19:50] that was a manifestation [19:51] of his disability. [19:52] Aaron lives with autism [19:54] and federal law [19:55] prohibits schools [19:57] from excluding students [19:59] from behaviors [19:59] connected to their disabilities. [20:01] We sued [20:02] and with his mother's [20:03] courage and dedication [20:04] and his perseverance, [20:06] Aaron graduated [20:07] from that school [20:08] in 2023. [20:11] Ms. Tanya Gersh [20:12] is also here, [20:12] A Jewish Montana mom, [20:16] Gersh and her family [20:17] became the target [20:18] of relentless [20:18] anti-Semitic harassment [20:20] from white nationalists, [20:22] including threatening phone calls [20:23] where all that could be heard [20:25] on the line [20:25] was gunshots. [20:28] With the center's help, [20:29] Gersh won a $14 million judgment [20:31] against the neo-Nazi [20:32] who incited her harassers. [20:35] We stand with Karen, [20:37] Aaron, [20:37] Tanya, [20:38] and thousands [20:39] we protect every day. [20:42] Fannie Lou Hamer said, [20:43] nobody's free [20:45] until everybody's free. [20:48] The SPLC will continue [20:49] our constitutionally protected work [20:51] to ensure [20:52] everyone in this country [20:54] is treated with dignity, [20:56] lives lives free of discrimination, [20:58] and enjoys liberty [21:00] and opportunity to thrive. [21:03] These promises of our democracy [21:05] are not self-executing. [21:07] They require our collective vigilance, [21:09] and we will continue [21:10] to defend them [21:12] when they come under attack. [21:13] Finally, [21:15] I must note [21:16] that I'm constrained [21:17] in answering some questions today [21:18] because they may touch [21:20] on matters involving [21:21] pending criminal litigation [21:23] against the SPLC [21:24] or conversations [21:26] that I've had with counsel. [21:28] Frankly, [21:29] this constraint [21:30] is the result [21:30] of the majorities [21:31] injecting itself [21:32] into a pending criminal matter [21:34] three days after [21:35] it was filed [21:36] and then refusing [21:38] our request [21:38] to delay this hearing [21:39] until that case is resolved. [21:42] With that, [21:43] I will answer what I can. [21:44] Thank you, Mr. Fair. [21:45] I would just point out [21:46] this committee has had hearings [21:47] on the activities of the SPLC [21:48] prior to the indictment [21:49] from the Justice Department. [21:51] We thank you for your statement. [21:52] Dr. King, [21:53] you are now recognized [21:54] for five minutes. [21:56] Mr. Chairman, [21:57] ranking member, [21:58] and distinguished members [21:59] of the committee, [22:00] thank you for allowing me [22:02] to testify today. [22:04] I was born on January 22, 1951, [22:07] not with a silver spoon [22:08] in my mouth, [22:09] but singing amazing grace [22:11] and pledging allegiance [22:12] to the flag [22:13] of the United States of America. [22:15] In other words, [22:16] I was born into [22:16] a Christian family [22:18] led by Baptist preachers [22:20] and men and women [22:20] who loved God, [22:22] believed in God, [22:23] proclaimed the gospel [22:24] of Jesus Christ, [22:25] and embraced the truth [22:26] found in Acts 17, 26. [22:28] And of one blood, [22:30] God made every nation [22:31] of people to dwell [22:33] on the face of the earth. [22:35] I was taught from birth [22:36] to love, to repent, [22:37] to forgive, [22:37] to trust God, [22:39] and to love my fellow [22:40] brothers and sisters. [22:41] Human dignity [22:42] is a creed of our family, [22:44] the King family legacy. [22:46] My uncle, [22:47] Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., [22:48] did not dedicate his life [22:50] to dividing people [22:51] into categories [22:52] of oppressor and oppressed. [22:54] He dedicated his life [22:55] to bringing people together [22:57] under the truth [22:57] that every person [22:59] bears the image of God. [23:01] I come before you today [23:02] not in anger, [23:03] but in deep concern. [23:04] I am not sure anyone [23:06] can fully grasp [23:07] the emotions [23:07] of a young girl [23:08] who grew up in a family [23:09] that sacrificed so much [23:11] for justice [23:12] and reconciliation, [23:14] only to spend much [23:15] of her adult life [23:16] being watched, [23:18] shadowed, [23:19] criticized, [23:20] and even threatened [23:20] because she believes [23:22] in God, [23:22] in Jesus Christ, [23:23] in the sanctity of life, [23:25] and in the American dream. [23:27] My family legacy [23:28] reflects the very truth [23:30] that America is strongest [23:31] when we recognize [23:33] our common humanity. [23:35] My grandmother's family [23:36] came from the west coast [23:37] of Africa. [23:39] My grandfather's family [23:40] came from Ireland. [23:41] My mother's family [23:42] included Cherokee roots. [23:44] I have spent my entire life [23:46] living the reality [23:47] that America [23:48] is not a collection [23:49] of competing tribes. [23:51] America is one people [23:53] under God. [23:54] That is why I am troubled [23:56] by the conduct [23:57] and messaging [23:57] of organizations [23:58] that claim to fight hatred [24:00] while profiteering [24:01] from division. [24:03] Recent allegations [24:04] reportedly contained [24:05] in a federal superseding indictment [24:08] raised serious questions [24:10] about the Southern Poverty [24:11] Law Center's activities. [24:13] Individuals associated [24:14] with organizations [24:16] the SPLC itself labeled [24:18] as extremists [24:19] or hate groups [24:20] allegedly received [24:22] substantial payments [24:23] over many years. [24:25] The indictment shares [24:26] of payments [24:27] totaling hundreds of thousands [24:29] and in some cases [24:30] more than a million dollars [24:32] to sources connected [24:33] to white supremacist, [24:35] neo-Nazi, [24:36] and Ku Klux Klan organizations. [24:38] Those allegations [24:39] deserve careful examination. [24:42] They reveal [24:42] a troubling contradiction. [24:45] Americans [24:45] who faithfully donate [24:47] their hard-earned money, [24:48] many of them [24:49] senior citizens like me, [24:50] who sincerely want [24:51] to combat racism [24:52] and hatred, [24:54] deserve transparency [24:55] and accountability [24:56] about how those funds [24:57] are being used. [25:00] America does not need [25:01] more manufactured [25:03] racial tension. [25:04] We do need more labels [25:05] with the sole intention [25:07] to drive us apart. [25:12] We do not need more lists [25:13] that place citizens [25:15] under suspicion [25:15] because they hold [25:16] sincere beliefs [25:17] about faith, [25:19] family, life, [25:20] or public policy. [25:22] I know myself [25:23] about being labeled. [25:25] Let me be clear. [25:26] I reject racism. [25:28] I reject hatred. [25:30] I reject white supremacy. [25:33] I reject any ideology [25:34] that seeks to elevate [25:36] one group of people [25:38] above another. [25:39] But I also reject [25:41] the notion [25:41] that Americans [25:42] who hold traditional [25:43] Christian beliefs [25:44] should be treated [25:45] as threats [25:46] or terrorists [25:47] simply because [25:49] we disagree [25:50] with a prevailing [25:51] political thought. [25:54] Today, [25:54] I still have a dream. [25:56] I dream that one day [25:57] we will move beyond [25:58] black power [25:59] and white power [26:00] and embrace God's power [26:01] and human dignity. [26:02] I dream that Americans [26:04] will one day [26:05] see each other [26:06] not as enemies [26:07] but as neighbors. [26:09] I dream that we [26:10] will hear each other, [26:11] see each other, [26:11] and recognize [26:12] that every human life [26:14] has value [26:15] from the womb [26:15] to the tomb [26:16] and beyond. [26:18] We are, [26:18] as scripture teaches, [26:20] as science testified, [26:22] one blood, [26:23] one human race. [26:25] And if we remember [26:26] that truth, [26:27] we can build a future [26:28] worthy of the sacrifices [26:29] made by those [26:30] who came before us. [26:32] We must speak out [26:33] for truth [26:34] and against the forces [26:35] that would manufacture [26:36] hate, fear, [26:38] division, and violence [26:40] simply to line their pockets [26:41] and further their [26:42] political ambitions. [26:44] Thank you. [26:45] God bless America. [26:47] And I look forward [26:48] to your questions. [26:50] Thank you so much. [26:51] God bless you. [26:53] Thank you. [26:53] God bless you. [26:54] Well done. [26:55] Mr. Banger, [26:56] you're recognized [26:56] for five minutes. [26:57] Thank you, [26:59] Chairman Jordan, [26:59] Ranking Member Raskin, [27:00] members of the committee, [27:01] for the opportunity [27:02] to testify before you today. [27:04] Over 50 years ago, [27:05] the SPLC was founded [27:07] to fight the scourge [27:08] of racism, [27:09] but the SPLC has drifted [27:11] from that founding purpose. [27:13] The indictment alleges [27:14] that the SPLC deceived donors [27:16] into funding the racist groups [27:17] it claimed to fight. [27:19] But beyond these shocking [27:20] allegations of hypocrisy [27:22] lies a broader story, [27:23] how the SPLC tarred [27:25] mainstream conservative organizations [27:26] as hate groups [27:27] and then relentlessly sought [27:29] to silence those groups [27:30] by persuading America's [27:31] leading financial [27:32] and technology firms [27:34] to exclude them [27:34] from the marketplace. [27:36] ADF is one of those organizations. [27:39] We've been on the SPLC's [27:40] hate map since 2016, [27:42] which is odd [27:42] given that we reject racism. [27:45] Our Christian faith teaches [27:46] that all are created equal [27:47] and all are made [27:49] in the image of God. [27:51] But it makes sense [27:51] when you understand [27:52] today's SPLC, [27:54] in the words of some, [27:55] as a political hit operation. [27:57] The SPLC has branded ADF [27:59] and others like us [28:00] as hate groups [28:01] solely because it disagrees [28:02] with our work, [28:04] grounded in our religious conviction, [28:06] on behalf of children [28:07] told by the medical establishment [28:09] to disfigure [28:10] and permanently mutilate [28:11] their bodies, [28:13] on behalf of the most vulnerable [28:14] among us, [28:16] both those unborn [28:17] and those at the end of life. [28:19] Our advocacy [28:20] for these mainstream positions [28:21] has repeatedly led us [28:23] to the U.S. Supreme Court, [28:25] where we have secured [28:25] 18 victories since 2011, [28:28] including two more cases [28:29] under submission today. [28:29] In fact, the SPLC [28:31] even quietly filed [28:32] an amicus brief [28:33] supporting one of ADF's [28:35] Supreme Court wins [28:36] on behalf of freedom [28:36] of association [28:37] and donor privacy. [28:39] But the SPLC cannot abide [28:41] our work on behalf [28:42] of the vulnerable, [28:43] parents, children, [28:44] and the unborn. [28:46] So it has slandered ADF [28:47] and other groups [28:48] like us as hate groups [28:49] and has sought to lock us [28:51] out of the public square. [28:53] The SPLC began targeting [28:54] mainstream Christian [28:55] and conservative organizations [28:56] by adding them [28:57] to their hate map [28:58] in 2010. [28:59] Seven years later, [29:01] the SPLC's fundraising [29:02] skyrocketed in response [29:04] to the notorious [29:05] Unite the Right rally [29:06] in Charlottesville. [29:07] But this wasn't [29:08] a stroke of good luck. [29:10] The superseding indictment [29:11] alleges that the SPLC [29:12] funded and supported [29:13] one of its ringleaders. [29:15] In the immediate aftermath [29:16] of Charlottesville, [29:17] the SPLC received [29:18] large donations [29:19] or commitments [29:19] from leading firms [29:21] and personalities, [29:21] including JPMorgan Chase, [29:23] Facebook, Google, Twitter, [29:24] and even Tim Cook at Apple. [29:26] In 2018, [29:27] it launched a coalition [29:28] of left-wing organizations [29:29] called Change the Terms. [29:31] They understood [29:32] that you don't have [29:33] to win a debate [29:33] with your opponents [29:34] if they're invisible. [29:37] So the coalition targeted [29:38] critical banking, [29:39] payment processing, [29:40] donor advisory, [29:41] technology, [29:42] and digital communications [29:43] infrastructure. [29:44] It embedded the SPLC [29:45] within that infrastructure [29:47] of corporate decision-making, [29:49] allowing it to influence [29:50] terms of engagement, [29:51] flag business partners, [29:52] and bully corporations [29:53] into compliance. [29:55] In short, [29:56] the SPLC mobilized [29:57] corporate America [29:58] to crush the voices [29:59] of mainstream [30:00] conservative organizations. [30:02] The Biden years [30:03] saw the SPLC deepen [30:04] its presence [30:05] in America's political [30:06] and corporate infrastructure. [30:08] The Biden, DOJ, [30:09] and White House [30:09] met regularly [30:10] with SPLC officials. [30:13] Amazon used the SPLC [30:14] to blackball groups [30:15] from its Amazon Smile [30:16] giving program. [30:18] So did the employee [30:19] charitable giving platform, [30:20] Benevity, [30:21] which serves nearly a quarter [30:22] of the Fortune 1000. [30:25] ADF saw tangible impacts. [30:27] We lost access [30:28] to the Amazon Smile program, [30:30] non-profit pricing [30:31] from large technology providers [30:32] like Microsoft, [30:34] Adobe, [30:34] and Intuit, [30:35] web hosting [30:36] on the Pantheon platform, [30:37] and access to donor-advised funds [30:39] at Fidelity. [30:41] A partisan political organization [30:43] like the SPLC [30:44] should never have been allowed [30:45] to function [30:46] as an unaccountable [30:48] private gatekeeper [30:49] to critical financial, [30:50] technology, [30:51] and communication services. [30:53] And corporations [30:54] should never have accepted [30:55] the word of an organization [30:57] that is itself [30:58] severely compromised. [30:59] In addition to standing [31:01] indicted today, [31:02] the SPLC has paid millions [31:04] in settlements [31:04] for defamation. [31:06] Its co-founder [31:07] and president [31:07] left in 2019 [31:08] amid staff reports [31:10] of a systemic culture [31:11] of racism and sexism. [31:13] It received an F [31:14] from Charity Navigator [31:15] for hoarding donor money [31:16] to the tune [31:17] of more than $800 million, [31:19] much of it offshore. [31:21] Former employees [31:22] have said [31:23] that the SPLC [31:23] is little more [31:24] than a highly profitable scam. [31:26] The time has come [31:28] to uproot the SPLC [31:30] from America's [31:31] financial and technology [31:32] infrastructure, [31:33] and Congress can help. [31:35] Investigations of the SPLC [31:37] can reach beyond [31:38] the indictment [31:38] to examine the SPLC's [31:40] relationships [31:40] with financial institutions, [31:42] technology companies, [31:43] and digital communications platforms. [31:45] Moreover, [31:46] Congress can pass legislation [31:47] barring federally insured [31:49] financial institutions [31:50] from delegating decision-making [31:52] to private entities [31:53] that discriminate [31:54] based on First Amendment [31:55] protected activity. [31:57] These would be critical steps [31:59] toward dismantling [32:00] the SPLC's [32:01] shadow censorship regime. [32:03] We thank the committee [32:04] for its interest [32:05] in doing so. [32:06] Thank you, Mr. Bangert. [32:08] Professor, excuse me, [32:09] Professor McCord, [32:10] you're recognized. [32:12] Members of the committee, [32:13] thank you for inviting me [32:14] to testify. [32:15] The Department of Justice [32:16] should not use its power [32:18] as a weapon [32:18] against people [32:19] and organizations [32:20] disliked by the president. [32:22] No one has said this better [32:24] than former U.S. Supreme Court [32:25] Justice and U.S. Attorney General [32:27] Robert Jackson [32:28] in his 1940 speech, [32:30] The Federal Prosecutor. [32:32] He said, [32:33] The prosecutor has more control [32:34] over life, liberty, [32:36] and reputation [32:36] than any other person [32:37] in America. [32:39] The prosecutor can order arrests, [32:40] present cases to the grand jury [32:42] in secret session, [32:43] and on the basis [32:44] of his one-sided presentation [32:45] of the facts, [32:47] can cause the citizen [32:48] to be indicted [32:48] and held for trial. [32:50] If the prosecutor [32:51] is obliged to choose [32:52] his cases, [32:53] it follows that he can [32:54] choose his defendants. [32:55] It is in this realm [32:56] in which the prosecutor [32:58] picks some person [32:59] whom he dislikes [33:00] or desires to embarrass [33:01] or selects some group [33:03] of unpopular persons [33:04] and then looks for an offense [33:05] that the greatest danger [33:07] of abuse [33:07] of the prosecuting power lies. [33:09] It is here [33:10] that law enforcement [33:11] becomes personal [33:11] and the real crime [33:13] becomes that [33:14] of being unpopular [33:15] with the predominant [33:16] or governing group, [33:17] being attached [33:18] to the wrong political views, [33:20] or being personally obnoxious [33:21] to or in the way [33:23] of the prosecutor himself. [33:25] What Justice Jackson [33:26] warned about [33:27] has come to pass. [33:28] The DOJ has initiated [33:29] fraud investigations [33:30] against political enemies [33:32] such as New York [33:33] Attorney General [33:33] Letitia James, [33:35] Federal Reserve Board [33:36] Member Lisa Cook [33:37] and former Chair Jerome Powell [33:38] and Senator Adam Schiff. [33:41] And at the same time, [33:42] the President [33:42] has granted clemency [33:43] to more than 70 allies, [33:45] donors, [33:46] and others convicted [33:47] of hundreds of millions [33:48] of dollars in fraud [33:49] across his two terms, [33:51] often after receiving [33:52] financial or other [33:53] benefits from them. [33:54] And he, [33:55] along with his [33:55] Attorney General nominee, [33:57] have orchestrated [33:58] a fraud on the court, [33:59] settling the President's [34:00] collusive lawsuit [34:01] against the IRS [34:02] in which he, [34:03] his family members, [34:04] and his businesses [34:05] all received [34:06] from the Justice Department [34:07] an effective pardon [34:08] from criminal [34:09] and civil investigations, [34:11] audits, [34:12] claims, [34:12] and prosecutions [34:13] by any federal department [34:15] or agency [34:16] on any subject [34:17] based on anything [34:18] that could have been initiated [34:20] as of the date [34:20] of the settlement, [34:21] known or unknown. [34:22] The so-called settlement [34:24] came after a federal judge [34:25] ordered briefing [34:26] on whether there was [34:27] actual adversity [34:28] between the parties, [34:29] a constitutional requirement [34:31] for a lawsuit. [34:32] This one-sided use [34:33] of prosecutorial power [34:35] extends to the President's [34:36] National Security [34:37] Presidential Memorandum 7. [34:39] Using the domestic [34:40] terrorism label, [34:41] it mandates that [34:42] federal government, [34:43] including the DOJ, [34:45] use every tool [34:46] in its toolbox [34:47] to target groups [34:48] with ideologies [34:49] this administration [34:50] perceives as, [34:51] quote, [34:52] anti-Americanism, [34:53] anti-capitalism, [34:54] and anti-Christianity, [34:56] extremism on migration, [34:57] race, and gender, [34:59] and hostility [34:59] towards those [35:00] who hold traditional [35:01] American views [35:02] on family, [35:03] religion, [35:04] and morality. [35:05] NSPM 7 states [35:06] that the groups [35:07] and entities [35:07] that perpetuate [35:08] this extremism [35:09] have created a movement [35:10] that embraces [35:11] and elevates violence [35:13] to achieve policy outcomes. [35:14] It relies for support [35:16] on the murder [35:16] of Charlie Kirk, [35:18] assassination attempts [35:19] against the President [35:20] and Justice Brett Kavanaugh, [35:21] and the so-called riots [35:23] in protest of ICE activity. [35:25] And although murders [35:26] and threats of violence [35:27] are reprehensible [35:28] and illegal, [35:30] the examples do not justify [35:31] the stark lack of parity [35:33] in NSPM 7's treatment [35:35] of supposedly dangerous ideologies. [35:38] There is no mention [35:39] in NSPM 7 [35:40] of the politically motivated murders [35:42] of Minnesota Democratic [35:43] legislator Melissa Hortman [35:45] and her husband [35:46] or the mass shootings [35:47] committed in Buffalo, New York, [35:49] El Paso, Texas, [35:50] and Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania [35:51] by white supremacists [35:53] who justified their violence [35:54] based on the [35:55] Great Replacement Theory. [35:57] The one-sided memorandum [35:58] not only lacks legitimacy, [36:00] it raises the stakes [36:01] for organizations [36:01] that hold views [36:02] the administration dislikes. [36:04] It has the strong potential [36:06] to lead to the discriminatory [36:07] targeting of organizations [36:09] based on the exercise [36:10] of First Amendment rights. [36:12] Within months [36:13] of then-Attorney General [36:15] Pan Bondi's [36:15] December 2025 memo [36:17] reminding prosecutors [36:19] of the many [36:19] federal criminal provisions [36:21] that might be used [36:22] in implementing NSPM 7, [36:24] the SPLC was indicted. [36:27] SPLC has for decades [36:28] spoken out [36:29] against racial violence, [36:30] sued to protect civil rights [36:32] and dismantle hate groups, [36:33] and worked cooperatively [36:34] with law enforcement. [36:37] Commenting on the charges [36:38] the president called SPLC [36:39] one of the greatest political scams [36:41] in American history. [36:43] I'm not here to discuss [36:44] the substance of the charges [36:45] against SPLC, [36:47] which is being ably defended [36:48] in court, [36:49] but the targeting [36:50] of the organization [36:51] hearkens the very danger [36:52] Justice Jackson warned about, [36:54] that law enforcement [36:55] becomes personal [36:56] and the real crime [36:57] becomes that [36:58] of being unpopular [36:59] with the predominant [37:00] or governing group, [37:01] being attached [37:02] to the wrong political views, [37:04] or being personally obnoxious [37:05] to or in the way [37:06] of the prosecutor himself. [37:08] Thank you. [37:10] Thank you, Professor. [37:11] We will now move [37:12] to five-minute questions. [37:14] The chair recognizes [37:15] the gentleman from California, [37:17] Mr. Issa. [37:17] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [37:19] Professor McCord, [37:20] I congratulate you [37:21] on your ad hominem attacks [37:23] on the president, [37:25] and you're deflecting [37:26] any part of answers [37:28] as to the nature [37:29] of this hearing. [37:31] Your absence of that [37:32] shows a great deal [37:33] about how you have [37:34] no answers for our questions, [37:37] but you have answers [37:38] for your own party persuasion. [37:40] Mr. Bangert, [37:42] I apologize in advance. [37:44] I'm going to focus [37:45] a little bit over here, [37:46] but it's not because [37:47] you haven't. [37:48] Your organization [37:49] hasn't been the subject [37:51] of the attacks [37:52] by Mr. Fair's organization [37:54] for what is now [37:56] a decade and a half. [37:59] Dr. King, [38:00] I'll start with you. [38:01] You wear a cross here today. [38:04] You spoke of God [38:05] and Jesus Christ, [38:06] your deep faith, [38:07] and the conviction [38:09] that comes with that faith [38:11] as to how a just government [38:14] and a people should act. [38:16] Is that a fair statement [38:17] of who you are? [38:19] The statement of who I am [38:21] is just a 75-year-old woman [38:24] who has experienced so much. [38:27] I have been personally flagged [38:29] by SPLC, [38:30] and I have been on [38:31] a domestic terrorist list, [38:33] interestingly enough, [38:34] for much of my life. [38:35] Dr. King, [38:36] that's the nature [38:37] to answer the question. [38:38] Is that because [38:39] of who you are, [38:40] because of your faith, [38:41] because you have championed [38:43] the teachings [38:43] of your father [38:44] and your uncle? [38:46] Yesterday, [38:47] I led a small trip [38:49] into the Capitol [38:49] where the Rotunda [38:52] has virtually only presidents [38:54] of the United States [38:55] other than Dr. King. [38:57] Is it, in fact, [38:58] his teachings [38:59] and the teachings [38:59] of people like that [39:00] that you follow [39:01] that has caused you [39:03] to be so labeled? [39:04] I believe that these [39:06] attacks against me [39:08] and others [39:08] are not because [39:10] only of my faith, [39:12] certainly because [39:12] of my faith, [39:13] absolutely. [39:15] My uncle, [39:15] Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King, [39:16] Jr., once said [39:17] that the law [39:19] may not make you love me, [39:21] but it can keep you [39:22] from killing me. [39:24] And so I believe [39:26] that many of us [39:27] are persecuted [39:28] because of our faith [39:30] and our beliefs. [39:31] I think it's a little unfair [39:32] because I say life [39:34] from the womb [39:34] to the tomb [39:35] and beyond, [39:36] that I'm on a [39:37] domestic terrorist list. [39:38] I think that's unfair. [39:39] You join a group [39:41] of faithful people, [39:43] as Mr. Bangert mentioned, [39:46] tend to be [39:47] what we'd call [39:48] center-right leading. [39:50] You knew Charlie Kirk [39:51] and his work, [39:51] didn't you? [39:52] I did know Charlie Kirk. [39:54] And his work, [39:55] like your work, [39:56] was about love, [39:59] people getting along, [40:00] but it was also [40:01] about teaching [40:02] of the benefits [40:03] of faith, [40:04] wasn't it? [40:04] I was able [40:05] to make some peace [40:06] with Charlie [40:06] before he was killed [40:07] because he said [40:08] some bad things [40:09] about my uncle. [40:10] I didn't like it. [40:11] I was upset [40:11] and I said Charlie, [40:12] but one of the last [40:13] things Charlie said [40:14] to an African-American [40:15] young man, [40:16] he says, [40:16] our DNA makes us [40:18] the same, [40:18] not this skin. [40:19] Charlie actually said that [40:20] and he publicly apologized [40:22] at a meeting [40:23] where I was. [40:24] So Charlie was not [40:25] an angel. [40:26] I'm definitely [40:27] not an angel. [40:28] President Trump, [40:29] Biden, [40:30] Obama, [40:30] angels, [40:31] please raise your hand [40:32] right now [40:32] if you're out there [40:33] I need to meet you. [40:34] However, [40:36] it's misguided compassion [40:38] that brings us here today. [40:40] It is misguided compassion [40:42] that puts me [40:43] on a domestic terrorist list. [40:45] I think that is very unfair. [40:48] And you know, [40:49] old people like me [40:49] giving money to SPLC [40:52] and then calling me later, [40:54] oh my God, [40:54] they believe in [40:55] it's okay to cut [40:56] a boy's penis off? [40:58] I was like, [40:58] seems like they're [40:59] spending a little money [41:00] to do that. [41:00] And people are [41:01] totally shocked. [41:03] I hope people [41:03] will take the medicine [41:04] and come on [41:05] and admit [41:06] that they are [41:07] funding some things. [41:09] They might be [41:09] doing some good stuff. [41:11] But look like this, [41:12] I have a dog [41:13] and I'm making [41:13] some brownies. [41:15] And they chocolate. [41:16] The dog poops [41:17] some brown stuff. [41:18] I put a little [41:18] secret ingredient in there [41:19] and I put it [41:21] in my brownies [41:21] and the people get worms. [41:22] It's not right. [41:24] It's just not right. [41:26] Thank you, [41:26] Dr. King. [41:27] Mr. Fair, [41:28] I don't want you [41:28] to be left out [41:29] of this conversation. [41:30] You have, [41:32] your organization [41:32] has labeled [41:33] Dr. King [41:34] and Charlie Kirk [41:36] and others. [41:38] Do you regret that? [41:39] Will you recant it? [41:41] Or are you going [41:42] to double down [41:42] and say [41:43] that these people, [41:45] including the martyred [41:46] Charlie Kirk, [41:47] in fact, [41:48] somehow deserve [41:49] to be on your hate list [41:50] for they're constantly [41:52] talking about [41:53] bringing people together, [41:54] talking about [41:55] the teachings [41:56] of the Bible [41:57] and the like? [41:58] Congressman Issa, [42:02] as I said [42:02] in my statement. [42:04] Now, [42:04] wait a second. [42:05] No, no. [42:05] I heard your statement. [42:07] I only want an answer [42:08] to your question [42:08] and 11 seconds left. [42:10] Are you going [42:11] to recant [42:12] yes or no? [42:13] And if you're [42:13] not going to, [42:14] please don't tell me. [42:15] It's because now [42:16] you're under charges. [42:18] Your organization [42:19] did it as much [42:20] as 16 years ago. [42:22] Will you take back [42:23] any part of that [42:24] or is your hate list [42:25] stand as your position [42:26] of your organization [42:28] as its head today? [42:29] The SPLC will continue [42:31] to expose hate [42:33] and extremism. [42:34] Okay. [42:34] We'll take that [42:35] as the list stands. [42:36] Mr. Chairman, [42:37] I'd ask unanimous consent. [42:38] Gentlemen, [42:39] Thomas Barber [42:39] can do a unanimous consent. [42:40] Thank you. [42:41] That an admission from, [42:42] a submission from [42:43] the Heartbeat International [42:45] for today's hearing [42:46] be placed in the record. [42:48] Objection. [42:48] That a message, [42:51] particularly from, [42:53] it's entitled [42:54] The Truth About the SPLC [42:55] from the Family Research Council [42:58] be placed in the record. [42:59] Without objection. [43:00] And lastly, [43:01] Mr. Chairman, [43:03] for this hearing, [43:04] too, [43:05] a statement [43:05] from the Executive Director's [43:07] Office of the Center [43:08] for Immigration Studies [43:09] be placed in the record. [43:10] Without objection. [43:11] Thank you. [43:11] I yield back. [43:12] Gentleman yields back. [43:12] Chairman, [43:13] I recognize this. [43:14] Gentleman from Maryland. [43:15] Thank you kindly, [43:15] Mr. Chairman. [43:16] Ms. McCord, [43:17] our colleagues invoked [43:18] the fact that the SPLC [43:19] had an informant [43:21] in a white nationalist group [43:22] at the infamous [43:24] Unite the Right rally [43:25] in August of 2017 [43:27] in Charlottesville [43:28] as some kind of indictment [43:30] of the SPLC. [43:31] But didn't that SPLC informant [43:34] create the information [43:36] that allowed the SPLC [43:37] to send three different [43:39] FBI field offices [43:40] a 45-page memorandum [43:42] warning of planned violence [43:45] and the potential for violence [43:47] at this extremist confab? [43:51] That is the facts [43:52] that have been represented [43:54] in court. [43:54] Mr. Fair, [43:55] is it true [43:56] that the SPLC [43:57] sent a memo [43:58] based on that informant's work [44:00] to three different [44:00] FBI field offices? [44:02] Yes, it is. [44:03] Okay. [44:04] The chairman spoke [44:06] with some indignation [44:07] about the fact [44:08] that there were [44:08] $3 million or $4 million [44:09] spent giving [44:12] to undercover informants [44:14] to try to expose [44:15] the work [44:16] of the extremist groups [44:17] as in Charlottesville [44:19] in 2017 [44:21] where Heather Heyer [44:22] was killed [44:23] by a fanatic racist. [44:26] I'm just curious [44:27] how the members [44:28] of the panel [44:28] feel about this [44:30] proposed [44:30] $1.776 billion [44:33] political slush fund [44:35] set up [44:36] for the Proud Boys, [44:37] the Oath Keepers, [44:38] and other convicted [44:39] criminals and rioters [44:40] from January 6th. [44:42] Do you think [44:42] that that fund [44:44] should be shut down [44:45] and any other [44:46] similar fund, [44:47] Mr. Fair? [44:48] Yes or no? [44:49] Yes, I do. [44:50] Dr. King, [44:51] do you agree [44:51] that that should [44:52] be shut down? [44:53] I will not speak [44:54] on whether [44:55] that particular fund [44:56] should be shut down. [44:57] Or any such fund. [44:58] I think some [44:59] of these slush funds [45:00] that SPLC is using... [45:02] Okay, but my question [45:03] is about the one [45:04] proposed by Todd Blanche. [45:06] It's a yes or no. [45:07] I will not answer on it. [45:09] I think they need [45:10] to stop killing the babies [45:11] and cutting the penises off. [45:13] And so any slush fund [45:14] that's money in that [45:16] is the problem. [45:17] Mr. Banger, [45:18] do you believe [45:19] that the $1.776 billion [45:21] political slush fund [45:23] should be shut down [45:24] and any similar fund? [45:26] I think that's a question [45:27] for Congress to answer. [45:28] Okay, and Professor McCord, [45:29] what do you think? [45:30] Should that political slush fund [45:32] be shut down? [45:33] Yes, it should. [45:34] And any similar slush fund? [45:35] Yes, it should. [45:36] Okay. [45:37] So the conceit [45:39] of the prosecution, [45:40] this whole hearing, [45:41] the whole attack [45:42] on the SPLC [45:42] is that there's [45:43] some contradiction [45:44] between fighting [45:46] against extremist hate [45:48] and racism for decades [45:49] and then sending people [45:51] undercover as informants [45:52] to find out [45:53] what these groups are doing. [45:54] Do you agree [45:55] that there's a contradiction, [45:56] Professor McCord? [45:58] I agree that [46:00] it is a very useful [46:01] law enforcement tool [46:03] to use informants [46:04] and cooperators [46:05] to learn more [46:06] not just about hate groups [46:08] and potential [46:09] domestic violent extremism, [46:10] but also as a tool [46:12] to dismantle [46:13] drug trafficking groups [46:14] and human trafficking groups. [46:16] So if the FBI [46:16] sent someone undercover [46:17] to expose [46:18] a mafia organization, [46:21] narco traffickers, [46:23] international human traffickers, [46:24] that wouldn't mean [46:25] that the FBI [46:25] is supporting those groups, [46:27] would it? [46:27] That's correct. [46:28] Okay. [46:29] As a matter of law, [46:31] and as a matter of fact, [46:34] can you have [46:35] a criminal fraud [46:36] if there are no victims [46:37] of the fraud? [46:41] To have a criminal fraud, [46:43] you have to have [46:43] made statements [46:45] sent fraudulently [46:46] to induce some activity, [46:47] and if it did not [46:48] induce some sort of activity, [46:50] like a gift or donation, [46:51] then there is no... [46:52] Well, what I don't understand [46:53] is that suddenly, [46:55] out of the blue, [46:56] there's a claim [46:57] that the Southern Poverty Law Center [46:58] is engaged in fraud [46:59] because it's been [47:00] extremely effective. [47:02] I wish it had been [47:03] even more effective, [47:04] for example, [47:04] in stopping [47:05] the Oklahoma City bombing, [47:07] where nearly 200 people [47:08] were killed [47:09] in an act [47:10] of fanatical [47:11] white nationalism. [47:11] But it's been [47:13] quite effective. [47:14] I don't know [47:15] of any group [47:15] that's been more effective, [47:17] other than potentially [47:18] the FBI itself, [47:19] in stopping [47:20] extremist white violence. [47:22] Well, [47:23] do you believe [47:26] that [47:27] it is [47:29] an act of fraud [47:30] when the donors [47:31] to the group [47:32] understand perfectly well [47:33] that people [47:34] are being sent [47:35] undercover [47:36] to try to get information [47:37] on what these groups [47:38] are doing? [47:41] If donors [47:42] were not defrauded [47:43] and no donors [47:45] have come forward [47:46] to my knowledge [47:47] suggesting that [47:47] they were unaware [47:48] of what the SBLC [47:50] was doing, [47:51] that program [47:52] has been known [47:52] for a long time [47:53] and so that [47:54] creates a problem. [47:56] I mean, [47:56] it just seems to me [47:57] amazing to be [47:58] alleging a fraud [47:59] when there are no victims. [48:00] When I just looked up [48:01] the Trump University case, [48:03] there were hundreds [48:03] and hundreds of people [48:04] coming forward [48:05] screaming to high heaven [48:06] about how they'd been [48:07] ripped off [48:08] and exploited [48:08] by this fake university [48:10] and they won [48:10] $25 million. [48:11] So do you pay [48:13] the same people [48:14] to do the bomb [48:15] and then go [48:15] and comfort the people [48:16] from being bombed? [48:17] You pay the same people [48:18] to do both jobs? [48:19] That's kind of fraud to me. [48:21] That's weird [48:21] and chaotic [48:22] and confusing. [48:23] Well, Dr. King, [48:24] I don't think [48:24] there's any allegation [48:25] that anybody [48:26] who was working [48:26] with the Southern Poverty Law Center [48:28] bombed anyone. [48:29] Do you have information [48:29] to that effect? [48:30] I don't personally, [48:31] but outside agitators [48:33] did bomb our house [48:34] in 63 [48:35] and then ran back [48:36] and took off [48:36] the Ku Klux Klan sheets [48:38] and put on police things [48:39] and ran up in the yard. [48:40] It was the same people. [48:42] It was crazy. [48:43] I'm with you [48:43] and that's a statement [48:44] about the racism [48:45] of that police force [48:46] working with the Ku Klux Klan. [48:47] Hey, y'all pay both of them [48:48] to do the double jobs. [48:50] SPLC does. [48:51] Really. [48:52] You hire them [48:52] to do the bombing [48:53] then you hire them [48:54] to fix the bombing. [48:55] That's weird. [48:56] Dr. King, [48:56] you're asserting [48:57] a lot of things [48:57] under oath [48:58] and you haven't brought [48:58] the evidence with you. [49:00] I'll get some for you. [49:01] Okay, please. [49:02] Bring us the evidence [49:03] and I'll yield back [49:03] to you, Mr. Church. [49:04] I'll get some for you. [49:05] Mr. Fair, [49:06] did the Southern Property Law Center [49:07] use donor money [49:08] to have field sources [49:10] attend extremist rallies [49:11] across the country? [49:16] Mr. Chairman. [49:17] It's a simple question. [49:18] Did you use your donor money [49:19] for that purpose? [49:21] We used donor money. [49:25] Is it yes or no? [49:25] To pay confidential informants [49:27] to infiltrate [49:28] extremist organizations. [49:30] Did the Southern Property Law Center [49:31] use donor dollars [49:32] to have field sources [49:33] host extremist rallies [49:34] throughout the country? [49:37] Not to my knowledge. [49:39] That's not what the indictment says. [49:40] Did the Southern Property Law Center [49:41] use donor dollars [49:42] to have field sources [49:42] grow existing chapters [49:43] of extremist groups? [49:45] Mr. Chairman, [49:47] as I said earlier... [49:48] It's a simple question, [49:49] Mr. Fair. [49:49] Did you use donor money [49:51] for the purpose I just read? [49:52] I'm reading straight [49:53] from the superseding indictment. [49:54] And, Mr. Chairman, [49:55] the indictment [49:56] will be managed [49:57] and responded to by counsel [49:59] in the criminal case [50:01] that's been made. [50:01] Well, you just answered [50:01] a question from Mr. Raskin [50:03] concerning the indictment. [50:03] He asked you, [50:04] did field sources [50:04] send information to the FBI [50:06] that help with things? [50:07] You answered that question. [50:07] That's a matter of public knowledge. [50:09] That's in our public filing. [50:11] Did the Southern Property Law Center [50:12] use donor money [50:14] to have field sources [50:15] create new chapters [50:16] of extremist groups? [50:18] Again, Mr. Chairman. [50:19] Did the Southern Property Law Center [50:20] use donor money [50:21] to recruit new individuals [50:23] into those extremist groups? [50:27] I assume you don't want me [50:28] to answer [50:28] since you're not giving me [50:29] time to answer. [50:30] No, I'm giving you time [50:30] to answer because that's a yes. [50:31] Did you use your donors' money [50:33] for that purpose? [50:35] Yes or no? [50:36] Again, [50:36] those issues will be resolved [50:39] in the pending allegations [50:41] against the SPLC. [50:42] It seems to me [50:42] if the answer is no, [50:43] you could say no. [50:44] We have asserted [50:47] that the allegations are false. [50:48] Did the Southern Property Law Center [50:49] use donor money [50:50] to have field sources [50:51] make donations [50:52] to extremist group leaders [50:53] and purchase materials [50:54] for cross burnings? [50:57] It's alleged in the indictment. [50:58] Did it happen? [50:59] We've alleged [51:00] that those allegations [51:00] are false. [51:01] Did the Southern Property Law Center [51:03] use donor dollars [51:03] to have field sources [51:04] create racist paraphernalia [51:05] that extremist groups [51:06] sold at rallies? [51:10] We've alleged [51:11] that those allegations [51:11] are false. [51:12] Okay, how about this? [51:13] What is Fox Photography? [51:21] Mr. Chairman, [51:21] what I've learned [51:22] about Fox Photography, [51:25] I've learned from counsel [51:26] in conversations with counsel. [51:28] How about Northwest Technologies? [51:30] And they're covered [51:31] by the attorney-client privilege. [51:33] These are, [51:35] well, [51:35] did the Southern Poverty Law Center [51:37] establish shell companies [51:38] to pay, [51:40] to run the money through, [51:41] to then pay the field sources? [51:44] Again, [51:45] all of the allegations [51:47] that you are referring to, [51:50] Chairman Jordan, [51:51] will be... [51:52] Well, how about this? [51:52] Responded to by our counsel [51:55] in the Middle District [51:56] of Alabama. [51:59] Did you pay [52:01] the field sources directly [52:02] or did you pay them [52:03] through an intermediary? [52:08] Mr. Chairman Jordan? [52:10] Yep. [52:10] Our counsel will respond [52:12] to all the allegations [52:13] in the indictment [52:14] in the case pending [52:16] in the Middle District. [52:17] Well, [52:17] there's all these companies [52:18] that you sent money to. [52:19] Center Investigative Agency, [52:21] not the CIA, [52:22] but your CIA, [52:23] Fox Photography, [52:24] Northwest Technologies, [52:25] Tech Writers Group, [52:26] Rare Books Warehouses, [52:27] Imagery Link, [52:29] J&J Electronics, [52:30] and Kelly's Marine. [52:31] And I just want to know [52:32] if that was the [52:33] intermediate shell companies [52:34] that you guys set up [52:35] to pay the field sources. [52:37] Is that true? [52:39] Will the good chairman [52:40] yield for just a moment? [52:41] No, I got just a minute and a half [52:42] and then I'll be happy [52:42] to entertain a question [52:44] you may have. [52:44] Chairman Jordan, [52:45] our counsel will respond [52:46] to all the allegations [52:47] in the Middle District [52:50] of Alabama. [52:51] Okay. [52:52] As the process allows. [52:54] Did you do it all [52:55] for the money? [52:58] I mean, you said now, [52:59] I think the Southern [52:59] Public Law Center said [53:00] you're no longer going to use [53:01] these field sources. [53:01] You're going to stop the program. [53:02] But you did it for multiple years [53:04] and according to the indictment, [53:05] it was $4 million [53:06] that you shelled out [53:07] to these various field sources [53:08] to engage in all the activities [53:09] I just read. [53:11] Was it all about the money? [53:13] As we said in our public statement, [53:14] Chairman Jordan, [53:15] we did it to protect our staff [53:17] and to protect the public. [53:19] Did fundraising increase [53:21] after paying people [53:22] to stay in these groups [53:23] who actually wanted out of them? [53:25] Did your fundraising increase? [53:27] Did the donations coming in increase? [53:30] Chairman Jordan, [53:31] I'm not sure exactly [53:33] what you're referring to [53:34] when you say that. [53:35] How about this? [53:35] After the crazy Charlottesville rally, [53:37] did fundraising go up? [53:40] Mr. Chairman, [53:41] our fundraising went up. [53:45] Fundraising where one [53:46] of your field sources [53:46] helped coordinate transportation. [53:47] Our fundraising went up [53:48] when President Donald Trump [53:51] was elected in 2016. [53:53] Fundraising go up [53:53] after you paid a field source [53:55] to coordinate the transportation [53:56] at an event in Charlottesville [53:57] where a person was killed. [53:58] That's what I'm asking. [53:59] Did it go up? [54:00] Because according to what we know, [54:01] you went from $51 million [54:02] to $133 million [54:03] in one year. [54:04] And that happened [54:06] when President Donald Trump [54:08] was elected. [54:11] Who's the president [54:12] of the National Socialist Party? [54:16] You know, [54:19] you paid him $70,000. [54:21] He was field source number 30. [54:22] I just want to know who he is. [54:23] Do you know who he is? [54:24] Mr. Chairman, [54:25] that's an allegation [54:26] in the indictment [54:28] that will be responded to [54:29] by counsel [54:30] in the Middle District of Alabama. [54:32] My time has expired. [54:33] The chair now recognizes [54:34] the gentleman from New York. [54:37] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [54:38] Mr. Chairman, [54:39] in the Justice Department [54:40] that has lost [54:41] more than 10,000 attorneys [54:43] since the start [54:44] of President Trump's [54:44] second term, [54:46] it's not surprising [54:46] that the indictment [54:47] of SPLC [54:51] are replete [54:52] with mistakes [54:52] of fact and law. [54:54] In the words [54:54] of one former prosecutor, [54:56] DOJ's indictment [54:57] of SPLC, [54:57] quote, [54:58] falls egregiously short [54:59] of alleging a crime, [55:01] close quote. [55:02] At its core, [55:02] the indictment claims [55:03] that SPLC [55:04] defrauded its donors [55:05] and betrayed its stated mission [55:07] to dismantle hate groups [55:08] by paying informants [55:09] who, quote, [55:10] were either associated [55:11] with violent extremist organizations [55:13] or had infiltrated [55:14] such organizations [55:15] at the SPLC's donation direction, [55:18] close quote. [55:19] But this is directly contradicted [55:20] by the fact [55:21] that SPLC's donors [55:22] have said [55:23] that they knew about [55:24] and liked [55:25] the informant program. [55:26] The truth is [55:27] that SPLC's use [55:28] of paid informants [55:29] has been public knowledge [55:31] for decades. [55:32] Mr. Fair, [55:33] has information provided [55:34] by informants [55:35] to the SPLC [55:36] been used [55:37] to prevent [55:37] political and racially [55:39] emotive violence? [55:42] I'm sorry, [55:43] Congressman Nadler. [55:45] Has information provided [55:46] by informants [55:47] to SPLC [55:48] been used [55:49] to prevent [55:49] political and racially [55:50] emotive violence? [55:53] Yes, [55:54] Congressman Nadler. [55:55] We shared information [55:57] that we learned [55:58] through our [56:00] confidential informant program [56:01] with local, [56:02] state, [56:03] and federal law enforcement [56:04] to prevent [56:05] racial violence [56:06] against the public [56:07] at large [56:08] and to protect [56:09] our staff. [56:10] Thank you. [56:12] SPLC proactively [56:13] shared information [56:14] obtained from [56:14] its informants [56:15] with law enforcement [56:16] agencies [56:16] in order to prevent [56:17] the activities [56:18] of extremist groups, [56:19] in other words. [56:20] Mr. Fair, [56:21] can you explain [56:22] what actions [56:23] the SPLC took [56:24] before the Unite [56:26] the Right rally [56:27] in Charlottesville [56:27] in an attempt [56:28] to help law enforcement? [56:33] Congressman Nadler, [56:35] again, [56:36] I must say [56:38] that [56:38] council will respond [56:40] to all allegations [56:42] in the indictment [56:43] in the Middle District [56:45] of Alabama. [56:45] That's not an allegation. [56:48] It's part of the allegation. [56:50] Okay. [56:51] Mr. Fair, [56:52] can you explain [56:53] how the SPLC's [56:54] informant program [56:55] helped thwart [56:55] a terrorist attack [56:56] in Las Vegas [56:57] in 2019? [56:58] Yes, [57:00] Congressman Nadler. [57:01] In our public filings, [57:04] we have already stated [57:05] that SPLC shared information [57:10] about a particular [57:12] white nationalist group, [57:15] Atomwaffen, [57:16] to prevent a terrorist attack [57:19] in Las Vegas in 2019. [57:23] Thank you. [57:23] And what about [57:24] Philadelphia's Navy Yard? [57:25] Can you tell us [57:26] briefly about that? [57:28] Again, [57:29] in 2018, [57:31] the SPLC shared information [57:33] with the FBI [57:33] and with law enforcement [57:34] about potential criminal activity [57:38] by a member [57:41] of the Vanguard America. [57:44] We share that information [57:45] with law enforcement. [57:47] Thank you. [57:47] It sounds to me [57:48] like SPLC's [57:49] informant program [57:50] has been essential [57:51] and that SPLC [57:52] has worked with law enforcement [57:53] to keep our community safe. [57:56] And yet, [57:56] shortly after the indictment [57:58] was announced, [57:59] Acting Attorney General [58:00] Todd Blanche [58:00] falsely claimed [58:01] on Fox News [58:02] that the DOJ [58:03] had, quote, [58:03] no information, [58:05] unquote, [58:06] that suggests that [58:06] SPLC shared information [58:08] collected through [58:09] its informant program [58:10] with federal law enforcement. [58:11] This was obviously a lie. [58:14] In fact, [58:14] DOJ was forced [58:15] to walk back Blanche's [58:16] false claim [58:17] after SPLC filed a motion [58:19] to address the government's, [58:20] quote, [58:21] materially false statements. [58:23] Ms. McCord, [58:24] the Acting Attorney General, [58:26] the chief law enforcement official [58:28] in this country, [58:29] made a patently false statement [58:30] publicly about a material fact [58:32] in an ongoing prosecution. [58:35] Can you explain [58:36] why a false statement [58:37] made by an Acting Attorney General [58:38] directly related [58:39] to an ongoing prosecution [58:41] would be concerning? [58:44] Well, this is something, [58:45] first of all, [58:46] given that Mr. Blanche [58:47] has now rescinded [58:48] that statement, [58:49] it begs the question [58:51] of whether he knew [58:52] what he said [58:52] was false at the time. [58:53] And if he did, [58:54] it's a terrible thing [58:55] to try to prejudice [58:56] the American public [58:57] against the SPLC [58:58] in these criminal charges [59:00] by making a statement [59:01] like that, [59:02] which is really core [59:03] to the indictment, [59:04] whether they were sharing [59:05] information [59:06] with law enforcement. [59:08] Thank you. [59:08] DOJ's case [59:09] against SPLC, [59:10] much like the investigations [59:11] into James Comey, [59:13] Letitia James, [59:14] Jerome Powell, [59:15] Lisa Cook, [59:16] and so many others [59:17] as yet another example [59:18] of the Trump administration's [59:19] total weaponization [59:20] of the Department of Justice. [59:22] And this committee's hearing [59:23] today [59:24] is an example [59:25] of slander [59:28] against one of the greatest [59:29] civil rights organizations [59:30] we've had. [59:31] I yield back. [59:36] Gentleman yields back. [59:36] The gentleman from Texas [59:38] is recognized. [59:39] I thank the chairman [59:40] and I thank the witnesses. [59:41] I'd like to observe [59:43] Mr. Bangert. [59:43] We both serve in the office [59:44] of the Attorney General [59:45] of the state of Texas. [59:46] I want to thank you [59:46] for your service there. [59:49] Mr. Fair, [59:52] in 2012, [59:53] the Family Research Council [59:55] was attacked [59:56] and the guard [59:59] in the front of the building [1:00:00] was shot. [1:00:02] The head of the Family Research Council, [1:00:03] Tony Perkins, [1:00:05] made quite note [1:00:05] at the time [1:00:06] of Southern Poverty Law Center's [1:00:07] involvement in that [1:00:09] in putting [1:00:11] Family Research Council [1:00:12] on their so-called hate map. [1:00:15] Has the SPLC [1:00:16] ever acknowledged [1:00:17] that its designation [1:00:18] contributed to that attack? [1:00:23] Congressman Roy? [1:00:25] Yes or no? [1:00:26] I can't answer that question [1:00:27] with a yes or no. [1:00:28] You asked me if I heard... [1:00:30] Did they retract, [1:00:31] correct, [1:00:31] or reconsider [1:00:32] the listing [1:00:32] of the Family Research Council [1:00:34] on its hate map? [1:00:35] The Family Research Council [1:00:37] is listed [1:00:38] on our hate map [1:00:40] because it meets [1:00:41] the criteria... [1:00:41] To this day, [1:00:42] you continue to keep [1:00:43] the Family Research Council [1:00:44] on its hate map. [1:00:45] Is that true? [1:00:46] The Family Research Council [1:00:47] remains on the hate map [1:00:49] because it meets [1:00:51] the criteria that we use... [1:00:52] Which criteria? [1:00:55] The Family Research Council [1:00:56] is an anti-LGBTQ... [1:00:59] Okay, so on your website, [1:01:00] you used to have language [1:01:01] on there defending [1:01:02] your position [1:01:02] on the Family Research Council [1:01:04] and you had language [1:01:05] saying that other groups, [1:01:07] like Focus on the Family, [1:01:08] are not included [1:01:09] and you used that [1:01:11] as your defense. [1:01:12] Well, that language [1:01:13] is now gone [1:01:14] and Focus on the Family [1:01:15] is now noted [1:01:17] as a hate group. [1:01:19] Mr. Roy... [1:01:20] Can you explain that? [1:01:21] Congressman Roy, [1:01:22] we take no pleasure [1:01:22] in listing any group [1:01:23] and we wish the list [1:01:24] was empty, [1:01:26] but we have [1:01:26] the constitutional right [1:01:28] to express our opinion... [1:01:29] How many leftist, [1:01:30] how many leftist [1:01:30] anti-Jewish groups [1:01:31] do you have listed [1:01:32] on your website? [1:01:34] We... [1:01:34] Name them. [1:01:37] Anyone listening to this [1:01:39] can go to our website [1:01:40] and see our, [1:01:42] again, [1:01:42] our year in hate [1:01:43] and extremism report [1:01:44] was released this morning. [1:01:45] How many extremist Islamic groups [1:01:47] do you have [1:01:48] of the 1,500 or so [1:01:49] organizations [1:01:49] you have on your hate map? [1:01:52] Again, [1:01:52] anyone can go [1:01:53] to our website. [1:01:54] My office has been [1:01:55] looking over [1:01:55] and we can't really find one. [1:01:59] Again, [1:01:59] it is the SPLC's... [1:02:02] You think SPLC [1:02:02] could provide us [1:02:03] a list of the [1:02:04] Islamic-oriented groups [1:02:06] that you have [1:02:06] on your hate map? [1:02:08] Mr. Roy, [1:02:09] we don't target [1:02:10] any group [1:02:10] because of its religion. [1:02:12] Really? [1:02:12] I want to be clear [1:02:13] about that. [1:02:13] Really? [1:02:14] Yes, [1:02:14] that's exactly right. [1:02:15] We target no group [1:02:16] because of its religion. [1:02:18] We target groups [1:02:19] because they [1:02:20] express statements [1:02:22] and engage in activities [1:02:24] that demean [1:02:26] and vilify... [1:02:26] So you brought up [1:02:27] LGBTQ groups [1:02:28] a second ago? [1:02:29] I'm sorry, Mr. Roy. [1:02:29] So you brought up [1:02:30] LGBT groups a minute ago. [1:02:31] So you think [1:02:31] there's a bunch [1:02:32] of Islamic groups [1:02:33] that are pro-LGBTQ? [1:02:34] Is that the position [1:02:35] of the SPLC? [1:02:36] I just want to make sure [1:02:38] the record is reflecting that. [1:02:41] Mr. Roy, [1:02:42] as I said, [1:02:43] we target no group [1:02:45] or label no group [1:02:46] because of its religion. [1:02:47] We target groups [1:02:48] and label groups [1:02:49] because of what they say [1:02:50] about others. [1:02:52] And we have a constitutional [1:02:53] right to do that [1:02:54] and we will continue [1:02:56] to do that. [1:02:58] How long did it take [1:02:59] for you to criticize [1:03:00] the attacks [1:03:01] on October 7th? [1:03:07] Mr. Roy... [1:03:08] Was it immediate? [1:03:11] We were clear [1:03:11] and loud [1:03:12] about our criticism [1:03:13] of the Hamas attack [1:03:15] on Israel [1:03:15] on October 7th. [1:03:17] My research shows [1:03:18] that it took you [1:03:18] at least three weeks [1:03:19] to finally say anything [1:03:20] and then you attacked [1:03:21] and criticized Israel. [1:03:25] Mr. Roy... [1:03:25] Do you think the record [1:03:26] reflects that [1:03:26] or am I incorrect? [1:03:27] Mr. Roy, [1:03:28] as I said, [1:03:29] the SPLC [1:03:30] has a 55-year history [1:03:32] of fighting anti-Semitism. [1:03:38] It speaks for itself. [1:03:41] And yet the response [1:03:43] to the targeting [1:03:45] of the Family Research Council [1:03:46] was to defend yourself [1:03:47] for having focused [1:03:48] on the family [1:03:48] and then you immediately... [1:03:49] And you pulled down [1:03:50] from the website [1:03:51] that defense. [1:03:52] It was your only defense. [1:03:55] Well, first, Mr. Roy, [1:03:57] speakers in the United States [1:03:59] don't need to defend [1:04:01] their speech. [1:04:03] We have free speech. [1:04:05] And so everyone [1:04:06] should understand that. [1:04:07] Yeah, you do here [1:04:08] on the record [1:04:09] have to defend [1:04:10] the position of an organization [1:04:11] that has now been indicted [1:04:12] and has superseding indictment [1:04:14] based on very clear indications [1:04:16] of the way the money [1:04:17] is flowing [1:04:17] in order to target [1:04:18] very specific groups [1:04:19] and to potentially [1:04:20] defraud your donors. [1:04:23] Not to mention, [1:04:24] by the way, [1:04:24] banks. [1:04:25] If I had a little more time, [1:04:26] I'd like to have [1:04:27] a little bit more conversation [1:04:28] about debanking [1:04:29] and your engagement [1:04:30] with banking. [1:04:31] But the last question [1:04:32] I'll ask you is [1:04:33] with respect to Charlie Kirk, [1:04:38] have you all taken [1:04:38] any position [1:04:39] since Charlie Kirk [1:04:40] to... [1:04:43] Mr. Roy, we unequivocally [1:04:44] condemned the murder [1:04:45] of Charlie Kirk. [1:04:46] What about the listing [1:04:47] of Charlie Kirk? [1:04:52] It is our position [1:04:53] that TPUSA [1:04:55] expresses views [1:04:57] and vilifies other people [1:04:59] based on immutable [1:05:00] characteristics, [1:05:02] exposing them [1:05:03] to our listing. [1:05:05] Mr. Chairman, [1:05:05] I have a couple [1:05:06] of unanimous consent requests. [1:05:07] I have several documents [1:05:09] here. [1:05:11] November 2025, [1:05:12] Hate Watch [1:05:13] from the Southern [1:05:13] Property Law Center [1:05:14] in which hearing [1:05:15] or the work [1:05:19] that I've done [1:05:19] on Sharia law [1:05:21] was included [1:05:22] in Hate Watch [1:05:23] without objection. [1:05:24] Another one here, [1:05:26] anti-Muslim bigotry [1:05:28] in which work [1:05:28] we did in this very room [1:05:30] in the subcommittee [1:05:31] on the Constitution [1:05:32] highlighting concerns [1:05:33] of Sharia law [1:05:34] were included [1:05:34] in the Hate Watch. [1:05:35] I'd like to insert [1:05:35] those in the record. [1:05:36] Without objection. [1:05:37] Gentlemen, [1:05:37] yields back. [1:05:38] Gentlemen, [1:05:38] gentlemen, [1:05:39] I have you see [1:05:39] recognition. [1:05:39] Gentlemen, [1:05:40] is recognized. [1:05:41] Thank you, [1:05:41] Mr. Chairman. [1:05:41] I move to enter [1:05:43] into the record [1:05:44] a letter from [1:05:45] the Jewish Council [1:05:45] of Public Affairs. [1:05:47] Without objection. [1:05:48] Dozens of rabbis [1:05:50] praising the role [1:05:52] of the SPLC [1:05:53] in opposing [1:05:55] anti-Semitism. [1:05:56] Objection. [1:05:57] Chair now recognizes [1:05:57] the gentlelady [1:05:58] from California. [1:05:59] So during [1:06:00] a September 2020 [1:06:02] presidential debate [1:06:03] when he was asked [1:06:05] to condemn [1:06:06] white supremacists [1:06:07] and tell their [1:06:08] militia groups [1:06:10] to stand down, [1:06:11] Donald Trump [1:06:12] told the Proud Boys [1:06:13] to, quote, [1:06:14] stand back [1:06:15] and stand by. [1:06:17] That was a message [1:06:18] that elated [1:06:19] white supremacists [1:06:20] online. [1:06:22] Months later, [1:06:23] President Trump [1:06:23] had lost the election [1:06:24] and spent months [1:06:26] spreading the big lie [1:06:28] about widespread fraud [1:06:29] and the Proud Boys [1:06:31] were no longer [1:06:32] standing by. [1:06:33] On January 6th, [1:06:35] they were on the [1:06:36] ellipse. [1:06:37] They were in the streets. [1:06:38] And as we all know, [1:06:39] we were here. [1:06:41] They made it [1:06:41] into our capital. [1:06:43] As a member [1:06:43] of the January 6th [1:06:45] Select Committee, [1:06:46] I saw firsthand [1:06:47] how organized [1:06:48] extremist groups [1:06:49] helped transform [1:06:51] political grievances [1:06:52] into coordinated [1:06:54] action, [1:06:55] hate, [1:06:56] and then violence. [1:06:58] Before January 6th, [1:06:59] the Southern Poverty Law Center [1:07:01] spent years [1:07:02] warning about organizations [1:07:04] like the Proud Boys, [1:07:05] the Oath Keepers, [1:07:07] and other extremist movements. [1:07:10] Professor McCord, [1:07:11] can you explain [1:07:12] what SPLC must have seen [1:07:15] in those groups [1:07:15] that caused them [1:07:17] to raise concerns [1:07:18] about them [1:07:18] long before [1:07:19] their attack [1:07:20] on the Capitol? [1:07:23] Yes, Congressmember. [1:07:24] Like other research [1:07:26] organizations [1:07:27] that study the groups [1:07:29] with ideologies [1:07:30] that espouse things [1:07:32] like white supremacism [1:07:34] and the Great Replacement [1:07:35] theory [1:07:35] and tend to, [1:07:37] in some cases, [1:07:39] not all cases, [1:07:40] but advocate for violence [1:07:41] on behalf of those ideologies [1:07:43] and in furtherance [1:07:44] of those ideologies. [1:07:45] These are things [1:07:46] that lead SPLC [1:07:48] as other research [1:07:49] organizations do [1:07:50] to give warnings [1:07:51] about violence [1:07:52] that may be coming. [1:07:53] And certainly [1:07:53] before January 6th, [1:07:55] the red flags [1:07:55] and the warning signs [1:07:56] were there [1:07:57] and were communicated [1:07:58] by SPLC [1:08:00] as well as [1:08:00] other organizations. [1:08:01] How did the prosecution [1:08:04] of anti-government actors [1:08:06] who participated [1:08:07] in the storming [1:08:08] of the Capitol [1:08:08] on January 6th [1:08:10] affect groups [1:08:11] like Oath Keepers [1:08:12] and the activities [1:08:13] of anti-government militias? [1:08:17] And what happened [1:08:17] after the Trump administration [1:08:19] issued its pardons [1:08:21] to January 6th [1:08:23] insurrection participants? [1:08:25] And did the pardons [1:08:26] of the January 6th [1:08:27] insurrectionists [1:08:28] help or hurt the fight [1:08:30] against white supremacist violence [1:08:32] and extremism [1:08:33] in this country? [1:08:34] Three questions [1:08:35] for you, [1:08:35] Professor McCord. [1:08:37] Right after January 6th, [1:08:38] we saw groups [1:08:39] like the Proud Boys, [1:08:41] the Oath Keepers, [1:08:42] the National Three Percenters [1:08:43] dismantle [1:08:44] their nationwide organizations. [1:08:46] We saw the Oath Keepers [1:08:47] pretty much dissolve. [1:08:49] But of course, [1:08:49] with the pardons [1:08:50] and the clemency [1:08:51] and the commutations, [1:08:52] we've seen a resurgence [1:08:54] of these groups. [1:08:55] We've seen them [1:08:56] monetizing things [1:08:57] and we've seen also, [1:08:59] unfortunately, [1:09:00] members, [1:09:01] not just of those groups, [1:09:02] but people who were pardoned, [1:09:03] committing additional crimes. [1:09:05] Additional, [1:09:06] we have a list [1:09:07] of the crimes [1:09:07] they've committed, [1:09:08] some really disgusting [1:09:10] and serious measures. [1:09:12] Mr. Fair, [1:09:13] if Congress tries [1:09:14] to diminish SPLC [1:09:16] and dismiss its warnings [1:09:18] about groups [1:09:19] like the Proud Boys [1:09:21] and Oath Keepers, [1:09:22] what lessons [1:09:23] would we miss [1:09:24] about the threat [1:09:25] posed by organized [1:09:26] domestic extremism [1:09:28] to our American democracy? [1:09:32] Thank you, [1:09:32] Congressman Longwood. [1:09:34] The lessons we would miss [1:09:36] is that all of us [1:09:39] are less safe [1:09:40] with the threat [1:09:42] of domestic terrorism, [1:09:45] that these groups [1:09:47] that both express hate, [1:09:50] that express white supremacy, [1:09:53] that terrorize various groups [1:09:57] are a danger to all of us. [1:10:00] and we need to know [1:10:02] about them, [1:10:03] we need to know [1:10:04] about what they say, [1:10:07] and we need to know [1:10:08] about the actions [1:10:10] that they take. [1:10:11] That's what we'll miss. [1:10:12] I thank you [1:10:13] for those answers. [1:10:14] I think it's really [1:10:15] quite telling [1:10:16] that the Republican majority [1:10:18] on this committee [1:10:19] has now had a second hearing [1:10:20] to scrutinize SPLC [1:10:22] rather than discuss [1:10:23] their findings [1:10:24] and figure out [1:10:25] how to prevent [1:10:26] another such attack [1:10:28] on our democracy. [1:10:29] These lunatics [1:10:30] that Donald Trump [1:10:32] unleashed back [1:10:33] onto America's streets [1:10:34] are prepared [1:10:35] to go to war [1:10:35] for him again. [1:10:36] They're violent, [1:10:38] they're hate-filled, [1:10:39] and they have a president [1:10:40] who will not hold them [1:10:41] accountable [1:10:42] for violating the law. [1:10:44] He's pardoned them. [1:10:45] He says he wants [1:10:46] to give them taxpayer money [1:10:48] to reward them. [1:10:49] That's the threat [1:10:50] we need to be discussing, [1:10:52] not the folks at SPLC [1:10:53] who are pointing out [1:10:55] this threat. [1:10:56] With that, [1:10:57] Mr. Chairman, [1:10:57] I yield back. [1:10:58] I would just remind [1:11:00] Mr. Fair [1:11:00] that the Family Research [1:11:02] Council doesn't terrorize [1:11:03] anyone, [1:11:04] and shortly after [1:11:05] you put them [1:11:05] on the hate list, [1:11:08] the individual came [1:11:09] into their facility [1:11:10] and shot the security guard. [1:11:12] I now recognize [1:11:13] the gentleman from... [1:11:14] A quick unanimous [1:11:14] consent request. [1:11:15] Just in response [1:11:17] to the time frame [1:11:18] with respect [1:11:19] to the SPLC's response [1:11:20] to October 7th, [1:11:21] an article here [1:11:22] from Fox [1:11:22] that shows that [1:11:24] that statement [1:11:24] was in fact [1:11:24] three weeks later [1:11:25] on October 28th. [1:11:26] I'd like to insert [1:11:27] that in the record. [1:11:27] Objection. [1:11:28] And subsequent reports [1:11:29] in response [1:11:30] to their response [1:11:31] saying it's an [1:11:31] international incident. [1:11:32] There are several reports [1:11:33] here showing [1:11:34] that they previously [1:11:34] responded to other [1:11:35] international incidents [1:11:36] in Europe and in Australia [1:11:37] and others. [1:11:38] I'd like to insert [1:11:38] those in the record. [1:11:39] Without objection. [1:11:40] Chairman, [1:11:40] the gentleman from California. [1:11:42] Thank you. [1:11:42] Mr. Fair, [1:11:43] does any of the money [1:11:44] that the SPLC raises [1:11:46] come from foreign sources, [1:11:47] whether foreign nationals, [1:11:49] organizations, [1:11:50] foreign governments? [1:11:55] Not to my knowledge. [1:11:56] Does your organization [1:11:59] consult or communicate [1:12:00] with foreign sources? [1:12:06] Not to my knowledge. [1:12:07] During the Biden administration, [1:12:09] did the Department of Justice [1:12:10] seek your organization's guidance [1:12:12] on determining political groups [1:12:14] to target? [1:12:20] The SPLC, [1:12:21] over its 55-year history, [1:12:25] has met with members [1:12:27] of every administration [1:12:28] since its founding. [1:12:30] So the answer is yes? [1:12:30] No. [1:12:31] We've met with every administration [1:12:33] since our founding. [1:12:35] Did the Department of Justice [1:12:36] seek your guidance [1:12:37] on organizations [1:12:39] or individuals [1:12:39] to target [1:12:40] for investigation? [1:12:44] The SPLC identifies groups [1:12:47] based on the criteria [1:12:49] that we've set out. [1:12:50] One is... [1:12:51] So the answer is yes? [1:12:54] No, the answer is not yes. [1:12:56] Maybe I don't understand [1:12:57] your question. [1:12:57] So the answer under oath [1:12:58] is no. [1:12:59] Did we... [1:13:00] I'm sorry. [1:13:00] I'm not sure [1:13:01] that I'm following your question. [1:13:02] Let me try again. [1:13:03] During the Biden administration, [1:13:05] did the Department of Justice [1:13:06] seek your organization's guidance [1:13:08] on determining political groups [1:13:09] to target? [1:13:10] Not to my knowledge. [1:13:11] We're told an investigation [1:13:14] into your organization's activities [1:13:16] was initiated [1:13:17] by the Biden administration [1:13:18] but then mysteriously dropped. [1:13:21] Did SPLC have any discussions [1:13:22] with Biden administration officials [1:13:25] about this investigation? [1:13:28] Mr. McClintock, [1:13:30] Congressman McClintock, [1:13:31] it's my understanding [1:13:32] that the initial investigation [1:13:34] was open during [1:13:35] the Trump administration. [1:13:37] It continued into [1:13:38] the Biden administration. [1:13:40] And... [1:13:40] Did you... [1:13:41] Did SPLC have any discussions [1:13:42] with the Biden administration [1:13:44] regarding that investigation? [1:13:45] Not to my knowledge. [1:13:47] Did SPLC suggest [1:13:49] political groups [1:13:50] like Turning Point USA, [1:13:51] Traditional Catholic Groups, [1:13:53] Family Research Council [1:13:54] for investigation [1:13:55] by the Department of Justice? [1:13:59] Congressman McClintock, [1:14:00] again, as I said, [1:14:01] we identify groups [1:14:03] based on the statements [1:14:04] that they make, [1:14:05] the activities [1:14:05] that they engage in. [1:14:06] Did you... [1:14:07] Those are the criteria [1:14:08] that we use. [1:14:09] And we do it... [1:14:10] Do you suggest [1:14:11] that these groups [1:14:12] be investigated [1:14:13] by the Department of Justice? [1:14:15] Not to my knowledge. [1:14:17] And you had no conversations [1:14:19] with Justice Department officials [1:14:21] regarding this matter, [1:14:22] these matters? [1:14:25] Which matters? [1:14:27] The targeting [1:14:28] of Turning Point USA, [1:14:30] Catholic Groups, [1:14:30] Family Research Council? [1:14:32] By... [1:14:34] By... [1:14:34] For investigation [1:14:35] by the Department of Justice? [1:14:37] Not to my knowledge. [1:14:38] All right. [1:14:39] Did the SPLC arrange [1:14:41] for the break-in [1:14:42] and theft of documents [1:14:43] from an extremist group? [1:14:46] Congressman McClintock, [1:14:47] I believe that is [1:14:50] an allegation [1:14:51] in the indictment [1:14:53] that will be discussed [1:14:54] and responded to [1:14:56] in the Middle District [1:14:57] of Alabama [1:14:58] in the criminal case pending. [1:15:01] Well, it's my understanding [1:15:02] that the charges [1:15:03] are wire fraud, [1:15:04] bank fraud, [1:15:04] false statements, [1:15:05] and conspiracy [1:15:06] to commit money laundering. [1:15:07] How does that [1:15:08] deal with the break-in? [1:15:10] All of the allegations [1:15:17] in the indictment [1:15:18] involving the [1:15:21] confidential informant program [1:15:22] are connected to [1:15:24] the wire fraud [1:15:27] of the bank fraud [1:15:28] and the conspiracy claims? [1:15:31] You said that your activities [1:15:32] are constitutionally protected. [1:15:34] Does the SPLC assert [1:15:35] the right to file [1:15:36] false statements [1:15:37] with banks [1:15:38] as a constitutionally [1:15:39] protected right? [1:15:43] The SPLC has not filed [1:15:44] false statements [1:15:45] or false claims. [1:15:46] I didn't ask that. [1:15:47] You said these [1:15:48] are constitutionally protected. [1:15:49] Is that a constitutionally protected? [1:15:50] When I was speaking [1:15:51] to Congressman Roy, [1:15:52] I was speaking about [1:15:53] our right to express [1:15:55] our opinions [1:15:55] about the various groups [1:15:58] that we identify [1:15:58] on our list. [1:16:00] That is a constitutionally [1:16:01] protected First Amendment [1:16:02] right. [1:16:03] You're asking something else, [1:16:05] I believe, [1:16:06] and my response is [1:16:07] that all of the allegations [1:16:09] that are raised [1:16:10] in the indictment [1:16:12] will be responded to [1:16:13] in the Middle District [1:16:15] of Alabama [1:16:16] in our filings [1:16:17] and pleadings. [1:16:17] Okay, well, [1:16:18] explain to me [1:16:18] the reason behind [1:16:19] targeting groups [1:16:20] like Turning Point USA, [1:16:21] Family Research Council, [1:16:23] traditional Catholic groups, [1:16:24] as hate groups, [1:16:25] but not groups [1:16:26] like Antifa, [1:16:28] Jane's Revenge, [1:16:29] Youth Liberation Front? [1:16:34] We list groups [1:16:36] that demonize [1:16:38] or vilify people [1:16:39] based on immutable [1:16:40] characteristics [1:16:41] or that express [1:16:42] anti-government [1:16:45] conspiracy theories. [1:16:47] Do you believe [1:16:47] that Antifa [1:16:48] and Jane's Revenge [1:16:49] and Youth Liberation Front [1:16:50] have committed [1:16:50] violent acts? [1:16:52] Congressman McClintock, [1:16:54] it's my understanding [1:16:55] that the FBI has said [1:16:57] Antifa is an ideology, [1:16:59] not a group. [1:17:00] So a group, [1:17:01] if it's not a group, [1:17:03] it wouldn't be identified [1:17:04] on our list. [1:17:05] So you don't recognize [1:17:06] it as a group? [1:17:07] I'm sorry? [1:17:08] You don't recognize [1:17:09] it as a group? [1:17:09] Mr. Chairman, [1:17:10] the time's up here. [1:17:12] Time of the gentleman [1:17:12] has expired [1:17:13] for unanimous consent. [1:17:17] Thank you, [1:17:17] Mr. Chairman. [1:17:18] I ask unanimous consent [1:17:19] to introduce [1:17:20] the SPLC's hate map, [1:17:21] which lists [1:17:22] a half a dozen [1:17:23] different chapters [1:17:24] of the Nation of Islam [1:17:25] as anti-Semitic [1:17:26] hate groups. [1:17:27] Without objection, [1:17:28] the chair now recognizes [1:17:29] and I should have [1:17:30] mentioned this earlier, [1:17:30] I apologize. [1:17:31] If you need a break, [1:17:32] just let us know. [1:17:34] We'll be happy [1:17:34] to give you a break. [1:17:35] You understand? [1:17:36] Because it's going to, [1:17:36] as you know, [1:17:36] going to go on [1:17:37] for a while here. [1:17:38] And I think it's [1:17:38] the gentleman [1:17:39] from Tennessee, [1:17:39] Mr. Cohen. [1:17:40] Thank you, [1:17:41] Mr. Chair. [1:17:45] Mr. Fair, [1:17:45] why was the [1:17:46] Southern Poverty Law Center [1:17:47] called the [1:17:48] Southern Poverty Law Center? [1:17:51] We were founded [1:17:52] to defend the poor, [1:17:54] to assist the poor, [1:17:56] to resist racial terror [1:17:57] against poor people [1:17:59] across the South. [1:18:01] So anti-poverty work [1:18:05] has been in our DNA. [1:18:07] We continue to do work [1:18:09] on behalf of the unhoused, [1:18:13] the hungry, [1:18:14] the poor. [1:18:16] And your founders, [1:18:21] I know, [1:18:21] I knew Morris Dees, [1:18:22] I know Morris Dees, [1:18:23] I haven't seen him [1:18:24] in ever for a while, [1:18:24] and Julian Bond [1:18:25] was my dear friend of mine. [1:18:27] They were two of your founders, [1:18:28] were they not? [1:18:29] That's correct. [1:18:30] Were there other founders [1:18:31] that people might know? [1:18:32] The three founders, [1:18:36] Morris Dees and Joe Levin, [1:18:37] came together [1:18:38] and named Julian Bond [1:18:39] the first president. [1:18:41] Pretty good crew. [1:18:43] Outstanding crew. [1:18:44] Yeah, they all should have [1:18:44] gotten presidential medals. [1:18:45] I tried to get Julian one, [1:18:47] but for some reason, [1:18:48] our president, [1:18:49] two of our presidents failed. [1:18:50] Why, I do not know. [1:18:54] So the Southern Poverty Law Center [1:18:56] was not formed [1:18:56] to go after international [1:18:58] discrimination and hate. [1:19:00] There's plenty of hate [1:19:01] in the South. [1:19:02] Yes. [1:19:03] The South's abundant with hate. [1:19:04] Our initial work [1:19:05] was primarily focused [1:19:06] in the South, [1:19:07] but that work has expanded [1:19:08] to cover the entire country. [1:19:12] I don't understand [1:19:16] the questioning [1:19:16] of some of the people [1:19:18] on the panel [1:19:18] about suggesting [1:19:20] the Southern Poverty Law Center [1:19:21] is not concerned [1:19:22] about anti-Semitism [1:19:23] and Jewish hate. [1:19:24] As a person [1:19:25] who's been exposed [1:19:26] to Jewish hate [1:19:27] and anti-Semitism [1:19:27] since my birth, [1:19:28] I guess, [1:19:30] and could get a ton of it [1:19:31] on the ex-Mr. Musk's [1:19:34] hate-filled organization, [1:19:40] a lot of anti-Semitism, [1:19:42] which has increased lately, [1:19:47] why would they be asking [1:19:48] such questions? [1:19:49] You go after anti-Semitism, [1:19:50] do you not? [1:19:51] Absolutely. [1:19:52] We've, as I said [1:19:54] in my early response [1:19:55] for 55 years, [1:19:56] we've been resisting [1:19:57] anti-Semitism. [1:20:00] I mentioned that [1:20:01] Tanya Gersh [1:20:02] is here today. [1:20:04] We've also recently [1:20:05] filed two lawsuits [1:20:06] against the Goem Defense League [1:20:08] in Tennessee [1:20:09] for attacks [1:20:11] on a Jewish center [1:20:13] and on Jewish [1:20:14] and African-American people [1:20:15] in Nashville. [1:20:17] This is work [1:20:18] that we've done [1:20:18] that we will continue [1:20:19] that we will continue [1:20:19] to do. [1:20:20] Again, [1:20:21] anti-Semitism [1:20:22] is hateful [1:20:24] and groups [1:20:25] that traffic in it, [1:20:26] whatever their [1:20:27] political ideology, [1:20:29] would be identified. [1:20:31] Have you had [1:20:32] any Jewish people [1:20:33] contact you [1:20:33] or Jewish organizations [1:20:34] and complain? [1:20:38] No, we have not. [1:20:41] As a Jewish person, [1:20:42] I welcome all faiths [1:20:44] to come to our aid [1:20:46] and support [1:20:46] and many have. [1:20:48] Many, many have. [1:20:50] But usually [1:20:52] when there's anti-Semitism, [1:20:54] the Anti-Defamation League [1:20:55] is on it. [1:20:57] Jewish groups [1:20:58] are not afraid [1:20:59] to stand up [1:20:59] and speak out [1:21:00] against anti-Semitism. [1:21:01] But none of them [1:21:01] have contacted you. [1:21:04] Nor are we [1:21:04] afraid to stand up [1:21:06] and speak out [1:21:06] against anti-Semitism, [1:21:08] Congressman Cohen. [1:21:12] What's going on [1:21:13] in our country [1:21:13] is really scary [1:21:14] and what Ms. Loughran [1:21:16] said was true. [1:21:17] We're looking at [1:21:17] a president [1:21:18] who said, [1:21:20] stand by. [1:21:22] Stand up and stand by. [1:21:23] Or stand down [1:21:24] and stand by. [1:21:25] And he has pardoned [1:21:27] the people [1:21:28] who committed treason [1:21:29] against our country, [1:21:31] violence against police people, [1:21:33] and desecrated our capital. [1:21:36] They were convicted [1:21:37] or pled guilty [1:21:38] and he pardoned them. [1:21:39] And now he wants [1:21:40] to give them money. [1:21:41] And he may not want to leave [1:21:44] come January 2029. [1:21:50] And he's got his army prepared. [1:21:51] I wouldn't be surprised [1:21:52] if a lot of people in ICE [1:21:53] aren't J6ers. [1:21:56] That's why they wear their masks. [1:21:58] They're not worried about COVID. [1:22:01] They're hiding themselves [1:22:02] from the public. [1:22:02] And there's a reason for it. [1:22:06] I value your work. [1:22:09] When one of my best friends [1:22:10] died about eight years ago, [1:22:11] Urban Salke, [1:22:12] who was also a friend [1:22:13] of Julian Bond's, [1:22:14] an outstanding member [1:22:16] of the Ratner Sugarman Lucas [1:22:17] Law Firm, [1:22:18] the first African-American [1:22:19] integrated law firm [1:22:20] in Memphis, [1:22:24] I ask that people [1:22:25] give memorials [1:22:25] to the Southern Poverty Law Center. [1:22:27] It is his honor. [1:22:28] I'm proud of every memorial [1:22:29] that's been given [1:22:30] and I'm proud of every donation [1:22:31] I've made. [1:22:31] I thank you for your work [1:22:32] and I thank you for continuing [1:22:33] the work of Julian Bond [1:22:34] and Morris G's [1:22:35] and Mr. Levin. [1:22:36] You are a blessing. [1:22:38] Thank you. [1:22:39] Thank you. [1:22:40] The time the gentleman [1:22:41] has expired. [1:22:42] Chairman, I recognize [1:22:43] the gentleman from [1:22:44] I've got a unanimous [1:22:45] consent. [1:22:45] Gentleman from Georgia [1:22:46] is recognized. [1:22:47] A statement from [1:22:48] Kristen Clark, [1:22:50] general counsel [1:22:51] for the National Association [1:22:53] for the Advancement [1:22:53] of Colored People [1:22:54] that unequivocally [1:23:00] opposes the targeting [1:23:01] of the Southern Poverty Law Center [1:23:03] organization dedicated [1:23:05] to combating hate violence [1:23:07] in America. [1:23:07] Without objection. [1:23:08] Chairman, I recognize [1:23:09] the gentleman from Wisconsin [1:23:09] for five minutes. [1:23:11] Thank you, Chairman. [1:23:12] On page 14 [1:23:13] of the Year in Hate Report, [1:23:16] the SPLC criticized [1:23:18] the Alliance Defending Freedom [1:23:19] for its Viewpoint Diversity [1:23:22] Score initiative. [1:23:23] Specifically, [1:23:24] they state that [1:23:25] the Viewpoint Diversity Score [1:23:27] quote, [1:23:27] mimics white supremacist narratives. [1:23:31] Mr. Bangert, [1:23:31] my understanding [1:23:33] of the Viewpoint Diversity Score [1:23:35] is that it seeks [1:23:36] to hold companies accountable [1:23:37] for respecting [1:23:38] all religious [1:23:40] and ideological diversity [1:23:42] in the workplace. [1:23:44] Is that white extremism [1:23:46] to you? [1:23:48] Thank you for your question, [1:23:49] Congressman. [1:23:50] Absolutely not. [1:23:51] And that allegation [1:23:52] is preposterous. [1:23:54] ADF works through [1:23:55] its Viewpoint Diversity [1:23:56] Score initiative [1:23:56] as well as through [1:23:57] all the work that we do [1:23:58] to defeat censorship [1:24:00] by preserving freedom of speech. [1:24:02] And the objection [1:24:03] we have to what the SPLC [1:24:04] has done with its hate map, [1:24:06] especially when it comes [1:24:07] to groups, [1:24:07] conservative, [1:24:09] pro-family groups [1:24:10] like Family Research Council, [1:24:11] TPUSA, [1:24:12] Moms for Liberty, [1:24:13] ADF, [1:24:14] is that they work [1:24:15] to defeat free speech [1:24:16] by eliminating [1:24:18] those groups [1:24:20] from the public square entirely. [1:24:23] And that's the distinction [1:24:24] between the hate map [1:24:25] and the work that ADF does. [1:24:27] Well, I think I know [1:24:28] the answer to this, [1:24:29] but I'm going to ask you [1:24:30] to maybe elaborate. [1:24:31] Is it fair to say [1:24:33] you disagree with the SPLC's [1:24:35] designation of ADF [1:24:36] as a hate group? [1:24:38] We strongly disagree [1:24:39] with that completely [1:24:40] slanderous definition. [1:24:42] Very good. [1:24:43] Thank you. [1:24:43] Dr. King, [1:24:45] do you think [1:24:45] conservative groups [1:24:46] advocating for [1:24:47] viewpoint diversity [1:24:49] is racist? [1:24:56] Racism is socially [1:24:57] engineered in the first place. [1:24:59] And if you think [1:25:01] you're a different race [1:25:03] when we all bleed the same [1:25:04] and we're one blood [1:25:05] and one human race, [1:25:07] then you are socially [1:25:08] engineering racism. [1:25:11] What I'm trying to understand [1:25:13] is SPLC [1:25:15] is funding the far right [1:25:17] and the far left [1:25:19] with informants [1:25:20] that they send in [1:25:21] to report back. [1:25:23] So the informants [1:25:25] to not blow their cover [1:25:26] are doing heinous things [1:25:28] on the far right [1:25:29] and the far left. [1:25:30] I don't think [1:25:31] the donors understand [1:25:33] that SPLC [1:25:34] is using money [1:25:35] to stir up racism, [1:25:38] to have people [1:25:39] fight against each other [1:25:40] based on skin color [1:25:43] on the far right [1:25:44] and the far left, [1:25:45] some adjacent funding [1:25:46] coming in there. [1:25:47] So they're manufacturing [1:25:49] this racism [1:25:50] causing people [1:25:52] to be hated, [1:25:53] hatred and fear. [1:25:55] You know, [1:25:55] some informants, [1:25:56] I have been on [1:25:57] the domestic terrorist list. [1:25:58] Some informant [1:25:59] must have told them [1:26:00] I said something hateful. [1:26:02] I'm not a racist. [1:26:03] So how did I end up [1:26:05] on a domestic terrorist list? [1:26:07] So how did the guard [1:26:09] get shot at FRC? [1:26:10] How did that happen? [1:26:12] So I don't think that, [1:26:14] the question is, [1:26:15] donors are being frauded [1:26:17] and money is being spent [1:26:19] on the far right [1:26:20] and the far left [1:26:21] by SPLC [1:26:22] with the informants, [1:26:23] I think, [1:26:25] with some adjacent funding. [1:26:27] So the donors think [1:26:28] they're trying to clear up [1:26:29] the mess. [1:26:31] It's confusing to me. [1:26:32] So maybe I didn't [1:26:33] answer your question. [1:26:34] You want to ask me again? [1:26:35] I don't quite get it. [1:26:37] Well, let me just ask you this. [1:26:38] Do you think the SPLC's [1:26:40] hate map, [1:26:41] as we've seen many times, [1:26:43] is antithetical [1:26:45] to the peaceful advancement [1:26:46] of civil rights in America? [1:26:47] It is. [1:26:47] It makes people afraid. [1:26:48] It makes people, [1:26:50] I've been on it. [1:26:51] I've been on a domestic [1:26:52] terrorist list. [1:26:53] When I'm for peace [1:26:54] and love, [1:26:55] one blood, [1:26:56] one human race, [1:26:57] stop fighting, [1:26:58] stop chopping off penises [1:26:59] and killing babies. [1:27:03] Hey, some of the money, [1:27:04] go investigate it yourself, [1:27:07] is being used [1:27:08] to, [1:27:10] in the name of LGBTQ, [1:27:12] cutting baby parts off, [1:27:13] that is happening [1:27:14] with the money of donors [1:27:17] and the donors are shocked. [1:27:18] Right, right. [1:27:21] Thank you very much. [1:27:23] Mr. Fair, [1:27:23] in SPLC's motion [1:27:25] to dismiss the DOJ lawsuit, [1:27:27] you briefly discussed [1:27:28] the organization's [1:27:29] hate map designations. [1:27:31] On page six of the lawsuit, [1:27:33] the SPLC states, [1:27:34] these are not [1:27:35] mainstream groups [1:27:37] or they're espousing [1:27:38] traditional conservative [1:27:39] political views. [1:27:40] Rather, [1:27:41] as defined in the year [1:27:42] of the hate report, [1:27:44] these are groups that, [1:27:45] through their rhetoric [1:27:45] and activities, [1:27:46] traffic in extreme [1:27:48] and sometimes violent [1:27:49] ideologies. [1:27:52] And if you have [1:27:53] the hate report [1:27:54] in front of you, [1:27:55] it's mentioned [1:27:55] in the motion [1:27:56] that there are [1:27:57] many different, [1:27:58] let me just ask you [1:27:59] the question. [1:28:00] So, [1:28:01] do you think, [1:28:02] do you think [1:28:03] that the hate map [1:28:04] was designed [1:28:05] to identify [1:28:06] specific organizations [1:28:08] or to just [1:28:09] create this ideology [1:28:11] that there's hate [1:28:13] everywhere across [1:28:13] the United States [1:28:14] of America? [1:28:15] The hate map [1:28:17] was created [1:28:19] to expose [1:28:20] the statements [1:28:21] and activities [1:28:22] of groups [1:28:23] across the country [1:28:24] that vilify [1:28:26] and demonize [1:28:27] others on the basis [1:28:28] of immutable [1:28:29] characteristics. [1:28:31] I yield back. [1:28:33] Gentleman yields back. [1:28:35] Chair recognizes [1:28:35] the gentleman [1:28:36] from Georgia, [1:28:36] Mr. Johnson. [1:28:37] Thank you, [1:28:37] Mr. Chairman. [1:28:39] This hearing [1:28:41] takes me back [1:28:43] to the 50s, [1:28:45] the time [1:28:46] of McCarthyism, [1:28:48] the time [1:28:48] of demonic [1:28:50] and demonizing [1:28:51] attacks [1:28:52] against political [1:28:53] enemies [1:28:54] that was in vogue [1:28:56] by the notorious [1:28:58] and infamous [1:28:59] Joe McCarthy, [1:29:01] the House [1:29:02] Un-American [1:29:02] Activities Committee. [1:29:04] This is what [1:29:05] this reminds me of. [1:29:06] And when I go back [1:29:07] to the 50s, [1:29:08] I also think [1:29:09] about how [1:29:11] mainstreamed [1:29:13] during that time [1:29:15] was white supremacy. [1:29:17] It was mainstreamed. [1:29:18] it was so mainstreamed [1:29:20] that presidents [1:29:23] had to call out [1:29:24] the troops [1:29:25] to maintain order [1:29:27] or to bring order. [1:29:28] I'm reminded [1:29:29] of the racist governor [1:29:31] of Arkansas [1:29:32] denying entry [1:29:33] for the Little Rock Nine [1:29:36] into the all-white [1:29:37] central high school. [1:29:39] I'm sure you remember, [1:29:40] too, Dr. King, [1:29:41] back in 57, [1:29:44] the little girls [1:29:46] trying to get [1:29:47] into the building [1:29:49] and being spat upon [1:29:50] and taunted [1:29:51] and threatened. [1:29:54] And I'm sure [1:29:54] you remember, [1:29:55] Dr. King, [1:29:56] in 1962 [1:29:57] in Mississippi [1:29:59] when James Meredith [1:30:01] was to enroll [1:30:04] at the University [1:30:04] of Mississippi [1:30:05] and President Kennedy [1:30:07] had to call out [1:30:07] the troops [1:30:08] to guarantee [1:30:09] that they stopped [1:30:10] the riots [1:30:11] so that this man [1:30:12] could enroll. [1:30:13] And then again, [1:30:15] in 63, [1:30:17] when the troops [1:30:17] were called out [1:30:19] by the president [1:30:19] as George Wallace [1:30:22] stood in the door [1:30:24] of the school [1:30:26] and said, [1:30:27] segregation today, [1:30:29] segregation tomorrow, [1:30:32] and segregation forever. [1:30:33] I mean, [1:30:34] that's mainstream [1:30:35] white supremacy. [1:30:37] Same thing [1:30:38] when the troops [1:30:40] had to be called out [1:30:41] by President Johnson [1:30:42] in 1965 [1:30:43] to protect [1:30:45] the civil rights marches [1:30:47] from Selma [1:30:48] to Montgomery, [1:30:49] marching for voting rights. [1:30:50] And today, [1:30:54] the clock has turned back. [1:30:56] White supremacy extremism [1:30:58] is again mainstreamed. [1:31:01] This president [1:31:03] came into office [1:31:05] and revoked [1:31:06] a 60-year-old executive order [1:31:09] banning racial discrimination [1:31:11] in federal government [1:31:13] hiring practices, [1:31:14] saying that it was [1:31:16] now unnecessary. [1:31:18] We've had [1:31:19] the stripping [1:31:20] of employment protections [1:31:22] from employees [1:31:24] of the federal government. [1:31:25] We've seen [1:31:26] the civil rights division [1:31:28] of the Department of Justice [1:31:30] gutted and diverted [1:31:32] from its mainstream activities. [1:31:37] And at the same time, [1:31:39] we have experienced wealthy, [1:31:42] we've experienced attacks [1:31:44] on the rule of law. [1:31:46] the top, wealthy, [1:31:48] most powerful law firms, [1:31:50] some of which [1:31:50] bent the knee [1:31:52] to this president [1:31:53] because he threatened them. [1:31:55] We've seen him go after [1:31:57] the mainstream media [1:31:58] because they would not [1:32:02] renounce diversity, [1:32:03] equity, and inclusion. [1:32:05] We've seen him go after [1:32:06] top universities [1:32:08] trying to get at [1:32:09] their research funding, [1:32:12] threatening to cut it off, [1:32:15] and actually cutting it off [1:32:16] unless they rooted out [1:32:20] diversity, equity, and inclusion. [1:32:23] It's mainstream. [1:32:25] White supremacy is mainstreamed, [1:32:27] extremism. [1:32:29] Non-profit corporations [1:32:30] have been attacked, [1:32:33] like the SPLC, [1:32:35] organizations that offer legal assistance [1:32:39] and provide advocacy [1:32:41] for victims of white supremacy [1:32:44] and racial discrimination, [1:32:47] organizations which advance [1:32:49] the cause of civil rights [1:32:52] and voting rights [1:32:54] for black people, [1:32:55] like the SPLC does. [1:32:58] Southern Poverty Law Center [1:33:00] is under attack [1:33:01] because they are standing up [1:33:03] against the erosion [1:33:04] of our democracy. [1:33:07] Professor Fair, [1:33:09] America may not realize [1:33:15] that election workers [1:33:16] have recently faced [1:33:17] bomb threats, [1:33:18] harassment, [1:33:19] and targeted intimidation [1:33:20] simply for doing their job, [1:33:22] and you've issued reports [1:33:24] about that. [1:33:25] How are these threats [1:33:27] part of the larger [1:33:28] racial-based suppression tactics, [1:33:30] and is this a reason [1:33:31] why your organization [1:33:32] has come under attack [1:33:34] by this administration [1:33:35] and by this committee? [1:33:38] Gentlemen, [1:33:39] the time has expired, [1:33:40] but you may answer. [1:33:41] Thank you. [1:33:42] Congressman Johnson, [1:33:42] yes, [1:33:43] we believe that [1:33:45] there is a direct threat [1:33:47] to free and fair elections, [1:33:50] and we believe that [1:33:52] we are a target [1:33:53] of this administration [1:33:54] because of the effective work [1:33:56] we've done for 55 years. [1:33:58] Thank you, sir. [1:33:59] I stand with you [1:34:01] on your work. [1:34:01] Gentlemen, [1:34:01] this time has expired. [1:34:03] I recognize the gentleman [1:34:03] from Virginia, [1:34:04] Mr. Klein. [1:34:05] Thank you. [1:34:06] Mr. Fair, [1:34:07] as the only Virginian [1:34:08] sitting on this committee, [1:34:11] I'm very concerned [1:34:12] about the allegations [1:34:14] in the indictment [1:34:15] about your organization's role [1:34:18] in the planning [1:34:19] of the Unite the Right rally. [1:34:22] According to the indictment, [1:34:23] one of your paid sources, [1:34:25] F-37, [1:34:27] maintained an active [1:34:28] online presence [1:34:29] making racist posts [1:34:30] under the supervision [1:34:31] of the SPLC. [1:34:33] The SPLC paid this informant [1:34:34] over $300,000 [1:34:35] during this period. [1:34:37] The informant [1:34:38] was involved [1:34:38] with the rally. [1:34:40] Now, [1:34:40] I would ask you [1:34:40] questions about that, [1:34:41] but I know [1:34:42] from your past answers [1:34:43] you're not going [1:34:44] to answer anything [1:34:45] related to this indictment. [1:34:46] But I want to know [1:34:48] how exactly [1:34:49] this individual [1:34:50] aided in the planning [1:34:50] of the rally. [1:34:51] I want to know [1:34:52] whether this individual [1:34:53] attended the rally [1:34:54] because an individual [1:34:56] was tragically murdered [1:34:58] at this rally. [1:34:59] Two law enforcement officers [1:35:00] were also tragically killed [1:35:02] in an accident [1:35:03] while surveilling the scene. [1:35:05] I want to know [1:35:06] why the SPLC [1:35:07] forced individuals, [1:35:09] other sources, [1:35:10] to stay in the extremist organization [1:35:13] that they wanted to leave. [1:35:15] But let me ask you this [1:35:17] because this is public record [1:35:19] and you may be able [1:35:19] to answer it. [1:35:21] Following the [1:35:21] Unite the Right rally, [1:35:22] the SPLC reported [1:35:23] an annual revenue [1:35:24] increase [1:35:26] of $80 million [1:35:28] between 2015 and 2016. [1:35:34] Is that correct? [1:35:39] Congressman Klein, [1:35:42] as I said earlier, [1:35:44] a number of national [1:35:46] civil rights groups [1:35:47] saw their fundraising [1:35:50] donations surge [1:35:51] after the election [1:35:52] of Donald Trump. [1:35:53] That is correct. [1:35:55] Following the [1:35:56] Unite the Right rally [1:35:57] as well, correct? [1:35:58] The Unite the Right rally [1:36:00] was in 2017. [1:36:02] You referred to 2015 and 16. [1:36:04] I'm sorry. [1:36:04] Thank you. [1:36:05] Following 2017, [1:36:07] you saw an increase, correct? [1:36:08] The largest increase, [1:36:11] to my knowledge, [1:36:12] occurred [1:36:12] after the election [1:36:14] of Donald Trump. [1:36:15] I want to shift [1:36:16] to your partnership [1:36:17] with the Biden-Harris [1:36:18] administration's [1:36:19] DOJ and FBI. [1:36:20] Were you aware [1:36:21] at the time [1:36:22] that the SPLC [1:36:23] received special treatment [1:36:25] such as direct access [1:36:26] to high-ranking officials [1:36:27] in the Civil Rights Division, [1:36:28] early access [1:36:29] to FBI hate crime data [1:36:30] and invitations [1:36:32] to exclusive events [1:36:33] with DOJ leadership [1:36:34] during the Biden-Harris [1:36:35] administration? [1:36:38] As I said [1:36:38] to Chairman Jordan, [1:36:41] the SPLC [1:36:42] has met [1:36:44] with every administration [1:36:46] since its founding [1:36:47] to advance [1:36:48] racial justice [1:36:50] and equality [1:36:51] in this country. [1:36:52] I'm not aware [1:36:53] of any special treatment [1:36:56] for the SPLC [1:36:57] during any of those [1:36:59] administrations. [1:37:00] has the SPLC [1:37:01] provided training [1:37:02] to federal law enforcement [1:37:03] to federal prosecutors? [1:37:10] I'm not aware [1:37:11] of any training [1:37:13] of prosecutors. [1:37:15] As part of SPLC's work, [1:37:21] we did work [1:37:22] with law enforcement [1:37:23] and sponsored trainings [1:37:24] for law enforcement, [1:37:25] if that's what you mean. [1:37:26] Thank you. [1:37:27] Mr. Banger, [1:37:28] how does collusion [1:37:28] between law enforcement [1:37:29] and partisan groups [1:37:30] like the SPLC [1:37:31] undermine civil rights [1:37:32] protections for Americans? [1:37:33] Thank you, Congressman. [1:37:36] The problem [1:37:37] with the SPLC [1:37:37] is that it's trying [1:37:38] to shut down debate [1:37:39] in the public square. [1:37:40] And there are numerous [1:37:41] examples of the SPLC [1:37:43] colluding not just [1:37:44] with law enforcement, [1:37:44] but also major corporate actors [1:37:46] to do exactly that. [1:37:48] Of course, [1:37:49] we all witnessed [1:37:49] what happened [1:37:50] with the malicious prosecutions [1:37:52] by the Biden administration's [1:37:53] DOJ under the FACE Act, [1:37:55] but it goes beyond that. [1:37:56] We've seen major corporations [1:37:58] consistently canceling, [1:37:59] debanking, [1:38:00] refusing service [1:38:01] to organizations [1:38:03] that simply have [1:38:04] a political disagreement [1:38:05] with the SPLC, [1:38:07] oftentimes, [1:38:07] on issues [1:38:09] that the vast majority [1:38:10] of the American public [1:38:11] disagree with the SPLC on. [1:38:13] And yet, [1:38:13] they're pressuring [1:38:14] both the government [1:38:15] and large corporations [1:38:16] to take adverse action [1:38:17] against those corporations [1:38:18] simply to grind [1:38:19] to political acts. [1:38:20] That's not right. [1:38:22] You've discussed [1:38:23] how the labeling [1:38:25] of an organization [1:38:26] as a domestic terrorist organization [1:38:28] weaponizes [1:38:28] this type of activity [1:38:30] against Christian groups. [1:38:31] What is the problem [1:38:32] with nonprofit organizations [1:38:33] receiving special treatment [1:38:34] from and maintaining [1:38:35] a special relationship [1:38:36] with a law enforcement agency [1:38:37] like the DOJ or the FBI? [1:38:40] Congressman, [1:38:40] nonprofit groups [1:38:41] are not politically [1:38:42] accountable to anyone. [1:38:44] They're not politically [1:38:44] accountable under [1:38:45] the First Amendment. [1:38:46] And, of course, [1:38:47] they have the right [1:38:48] to freely speak. [1:38:49] Of course they do. [1:38:50] But when they use that right [1:38:52] to persuade government actors, [1:38:54] powerful corporations, [1:38:56] to refuse the public square [1:38:58] to their political opponents, [1:39:01] that's a problem. [1:39:03] Thank you. [1:39:03] Yield back. [1:39:05] Gentleman yields back. [1:39:06] Mr. Chairman. [1:39:07] Gentleman from Georgia [1:39:07] is recognized. [1:39:08] I've got a unanimous consent request [1:39:10] to introduce for the record [1:39:13] an article from the Columbus [1:39:14] Dispatch titled, [1:39:16] quote, [1:39:17] 50 white extremist groups [1:39:18] thrive in Ohio's heart, [1:39:21] period. [1:39:22] SPLC indictment [1:39:23] helps them, [1:39:24] end quote. [1:39:25] Without objection. [1:39:28] Gentleman lady, [1:39:28] I'm sorry, [1:39:31] Mr. Garcia's unanimous consent. [1:39:32] Thank you, Chairman. [1:39:33] I ask unanimous consent [1:39:35] to enter into the record [1:39:36] this letter [1:39:37] from the Christian faith leaders [1:39:39] expressing their deep [1:39:41] and abiding support [1:39:42] for the people [1:39:43] and the vital work [1:39:44] of the Southern Poverty Law Center. [1:39:46] Without objection. [1:39:47] Gentleman lady, [1:39:48] and the committee wishes [1:39:49] to express our boldness. [1:39:51] I know you had a tough situation [1:39:52] for your family. [1:39:53] I'm sorry to hear about that, [1:39:54] but welcome you back [1:39:54] and you're recognized [1:39:55] for five minutes. [1:39:56] Thank you so much, [1:39:56] Mr. Chairman. [1:39:57] Really appreciate that. [1:39:59] Well, here we are again [1:40:00] for a third hearing [1:40:01] in six months [1:40:03] about the Southern Poverty Law Center. [1:40:04] And I wanted to point out [1:40:06] that voter confidence [1:40:07] in the economy [1:40:08] has plummeted [1:40:09] to a four-year low. [1:40:11] 76% of Americans [1:40:12] think that the economy [1:40:13] is getting worse. [1:40:15] The average price [1:40:16] for a gallon of gas [1:40:17] has almost doubled [1:40:18] since Trump began [1:40:19] his unconstitutional war [1:40:21] of choice against Iran. [1:40:23] And the top concerns [1:40:24] of Americans [1:40:24] across political party [1:40:26] are gas prices, [1:40:28] the cost of groceries, [1:40:29] and rising health care costs. [1:40:31] So perhaps it's a surprise [1:40:33] to my Republican colleagues [1:40:34] that the Southern Poverty Law Center [1:40:35] is nowhere on the top list [1:40:38] of concerns of Americans [1:40:39] across this country. [1:40:41] And the fact is [1:40:42] that the factual falsehoods [1:40:45] and ideological grievances [1:40:47] that Republicans keep pushing [1:40:49] in these endless hearings [1:40:51] is all about fulfilling [1:40:53] Donald Trump's mission [1:40:54] of punishing perceived [1:40:56] political enemies. [1:40:57] So I want to be very clear. [1:40:59] This hearing is allegedly [1:41:00] about SPLC, quote, [1:41:02] spreading hate, [1:41:03] which is even more ironic [1:41:05] given that it's [1:41:06] Donald Trump himself [1:41:07] who has used extreme rhetoric [1:41:09] and gone out of his way [1:41:11] to stoke racism, [1:41:13] fear, and xenophobia. [1:41:15] He has denounced [1:41:17] Mexican immigrants as rapists. [1:41:19] He's railed against immigration [1:41:20] from, quote, [1:41:21] shithole countries. [1:41:23] His words, not mine. [1:41:24] He has enacted travel bans [1:41:26] against dozens of countries [1:41:27] which a federal court [1:41:28] just ruled unlawfully targeted people [1:41:31] from 39 African, Asian, [1:41:34] Latin American, [1:41:35] and Middle Eastern countries. [1:41:36] And he and Republicans [1:41:37] have tried to end [1:41:38] birthright citizenship [1:41:39] and have given hundreds [1:41:40] of billions of dollars [1:41:41] to rogue ICE and CBP agents [1:41:44] to kidnap and disappear immigrants [1:41:46] of all immigration statuses, [1:41:48] including, by the way, [1:41:49] United States citizens. [1:41:50] But it isn't just [1:41:52] the denigrating [1:41:52] of black and brown communities [1:41:54] that's so dangerous. [1:41:55] It is the praising, [1:41:57] the pardoning, [1:41:58] the condoning [1:41:59] of extreme white nationalists [1:42:02] directly from the White House. [1:42:05] In Trump's America, [1:42:06] white supremacists [1:42:07] at the Charlottesville rally [1:42:09] are, quote, [1:42:09] very fine people, [1:42:11] even after images and videos [1:42:13] showed participants [1:42:14] making Nazi salutes [1:42:16] and cheering on [1:42:17] the former grand wizard [1:42:18] of the KKK. [1:42:19] Trump then urged [1:42:21] the same network [1:42:22] of extremists [1:42:23] to storm the Capitol [1:42:25] and is still trying [1:42:26] to implement [1:42:27] his $1.8 billion slush fund [1:42:31] of U.S. taxpayer dollars [1:42:32] to pardon convicted insurrectionists, [1:42:36] at least 89 of whom [1:42:38] have gone on [1:42:39] to commit all kinds [1:42:40] of serious crimes [1:42:41] from child sexual abuse [1:42:42] to reckless homicide. [1:42:44] And he's done so [1:42:45] over and over again, [1:42:47] and yet he's weaponizing [1:42:48] the Department of Justice [1:42:50] to go after [1:42:51] the Southern Poverty Law Center [1:42:52] because they have dared [1:42:55] to call out [1:42:56] that hate and extremism, [1:42:58] including from people [1:42:59] within the White House [1:43:00] like Stephen Miller [1:43:01] and others [1:43:02] within the administration. [1:43:04] My Republican colleagues [1:43:05] want you to think [1:43:06] that SPLC [1:43:07] is targeting mainstream [1:43:09] conservative individuals [1:43:10] and groups, [1:43:11] but I want to dive in [1:43:12] a little bit [1:43:13] to set the record straight [1:43:15] about exactly [1:43:16] who we are talking about here. [1:43:18] Many of these individuals [1:43:20] and groups espouse [1:43:21] something called [1:43:21] the Great Replacement Theory, [1:43:23] which argues [1:43:24] that elites [1:43:25] are trying to actively [1:43:27] replace white Americans [1:43:28] and Europeans [1:43:29] with non-white immigrants. [1:43:32] So, Professor McCord, [1:43:33] is the Great Replacement Theory [1:43:35] an extreme [1:43:37] and hateful fringe theory? [1:43:40] It is a fringe [1:43:41] extreme theory. [1:43:43] Congressmember, [1:43:43] it is not something [1:43:44] that is adhered to [1:43:45] by the majority [1:43:46] of the American public [1:43:47] or even a large percentage. [1:43:49] And it's true, [1:43:50] is it not, [1:43:51] that the Great Replacement Theory [1:43:52] has stimulated [1:43:53] violent reactionary responses [1:43:55] in multiple cases, [1:43:57] including mass murders, [1:43:58] mass shootings? [1:43:59] There have been [1:44:00] numerous mass shootings, [1:44:01] including in Buffalo, [1:44:02] New York, [1:44:02] Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, [1:44:04] El Paso, Texas, [1:44:05] and many others [1:44:06] where the writings [1:44:08] and work [1:44:09] of the people [1:44:10] who have committed [1:44:10] those heinous crimes [1:44:12] reflected that they [1:44:13] adhered to [1:44:14] the Great Replacement Theory [1:44:15] as an ideology. [1:44:16] Now, one of the groups [1:44:17] that espouses these views [1:44:19] is the Center for Immigration Studies, [1:44:20] or CIS. [1:44:22] And it's an anti-immigrant [1:44:23] think tank [1:44:23] that SPLC has designated [1:44:25] as a hate group. [1:44:26] These are some [1:44:27] of the statements behind me [1:44:28] that CIS's leaders [1:44:29] and writers have said, [1:44:31] including advocating [1:44:32] for the need [1:44:33] to maintain [1:44:33] a European-American majority, [1:44:36] claiming that [1:44:36] Blacks and Hispanics [1:44:37] have lower IQ [1:44:38] than white people. [1:44:40] And I guess I want [1:44:41] to ask you, Mr. Farrell, [1:44:42] why was it important [1:44:43] for Southern Poverty Law Center [1:44:45] to designate CIS [1:44:46] as a hate group? [1:44:50] It was important, [1:44:50] Congressman Jayapal, [1:44:52] because it is one [1:44:54] of these go-to [1:44:55] think tank organizations [1:44:56] that many people rely on. [1:44:59] And our goal [1:44:59] is to expose [1:45:00] the statements [1:45:01] of these groups [1:45:02] and to let the people decide. [1:45:05] We don't stop speech. [1:45:06] We don't stop anyone's speech. [1:45:08] There's plenty of speech [1:45:09] in the public square [1:45:10] from these groups. [1:45:12] We expose [1:45:13] their statements [1:45:14] in the words [1:45:17] of what they say [1:45:18] and their activities [1:45:19] and let the people [1:45:20] decide what they think [1:45:21] about it. [1:45:22] So that they don't lead [1:45:23] to violent actions [1:45:24] that follow that. [1:45:25] I'm in the gentlelady [1:45:26] has expired. [1:45:27] The gentleman from Arizona [1:45:28] is recognized [1:45:29] for unanimous consent. [1:45:30] Yes, Mr. Chairman. [1:45:31] Thank you. [1:45:31] This is from SPLC's [1:45:33] Learning for Justice curriculum [1:45:34] and how it influences [1:45:36] international terrorism debate [1:45:37] with a specific reference [1:45:40] that the terrorism in Israel [1:45:41] is worse than that [1:45:41] of the Palestinians. [1:45:43] Without objection, [1:45:44] turn on our recognized [1:45:45] gentleman from New Jersey. [1:45:46] Thank you, Chairman. [1:45:48] I want to start out [1:45:49] by saying the SPLC [1:45:51] used to be a good thing. [1:45:53] It started out [1:45:54] doing the right thing. [1:45:55] So many of the good examples [1:45:57] that have been brought up [1:45:59] of what it's about [1:46:00] and ending racism [1:46:01] and fighting for us [1:46:02] to all be on an equal front [1:46:04] are in the past. [1:46:06] But I want to speak [1:46:07] about the present, [1:46:08] where we are now. [1:46:09] I want to speak about [1:46:10] how money was used [1:46:12] to fund and create racism [1:46:14] and it was for money. [1:46:16] I want to talk about [1:46:17] how real Americans [1:46:17] don't know the real deal [1:46:19] in which actually is going on. [1:46:21] It's a great name. [1:46:22] You know, people look at the name, [1:46:24] Southern Poverty Law Center. [1:46:26] What could be better? [1:46:26] It stands for [1:46:27] doing the right thing. [1:46:29] But instead of healing, [1:46:31] it opened wounds. [1:46:33] Instead of dampening racism, [1:46:35] it created more racism, [1:46:37] more hate. [1:46:38] And that's why we're here today. [1:46:40] What happened? [1:46:41] What went wrong? [1:46:42] All the other stuff [1:46:43] we can talk about. [1:46:44] But let's talk about [1:46:45] this issue today. [1:46:46] And the reason that every, [1:46:47] not everybody, [1:46:48] but that some folks [1:46:49] want to keep straying away from it [1:46:51] into other organizations [1:46:53] or into the economy [1:46:54] or into, you know, [1:46:58] Donald Trump [1:46:59] or the price of gas. [1:47:00] It's not what the hearing's about. [1:47:01] All important things. [1:47:03] I want to talk about those things, [1:47:04] but not at the hearing. [1:47:06] It's become clear [1:47:07] how this organization [1:47:08] that was existing [1:47:10] to dismantle white supremacy [1:47:12] was actually trying to create it [1:47:14] in order to get more money. [1:47:16] This is all about money. [1:47:18] It's all about politics. [1:47:20] It's all about changing [1:47:22] the political scene [1:47:23] and bringing money in to do that. [1:47:26] And it was all in the shadows. [1:47:27] And if you look in the shadows, [1:47:28] you see that the money [1:47:29] it was receiving from donors [1:47:31] wasn't going towards [1:47:32] dismantling hate. [1:47:33] Honest to God, [1:47:34] if some of the donors [1:47:35] really knew where the money was going, [1:47:36] they would be upset. [1:47:38] In the shadows, [1:47:39] they allegedly paid [1:47:40] more than $4.1 million [1:47:41] to individuals associated, [1:47:43] that's a lot of money, [1:47:44] by the way, [1:47:44] with hate groups [1:47:45] like the Ku Klux Klan, [1:47:46] the National Alliance, [1:47:48] and the Aryan Nations. [1:47:49] Why would you give them money? [1:47:51] You're trying to fight them. [1:47:52] You're trying to stop that. [1:47:53] You're trying to make it better. [1:47:55] And I could go on and on [1:47:56] where the money was spent [1:47:57] all the way that allegedly [1:47:59] it was spent for neo-Nazi figures. [1:48:02] It was spent to get money [1:48:03] for wooden crosses [1:48:05] and uniforms of the Ku Klux Klan [1:48:07] and the very gasoline [1:48:09] to burn the crosses. [1:48:11] My God, [1:48:12] the only thing more immoral [1:48:14] than racism itself [1:48:16] is to pretend [1:48:18] you're trying to end it [1:48:19] and you're actually funding it [1:48:21] for personal gain [1:48:23] and political gain. [1:48:25] That's God-awful. [1:48:27] That's hateful. [1:48:29] So, [1:48:30] with that being said, [1:48:32] let me ask, [1:48:33] Mr. Fair, [1:48:34] let me ask you [1:48:35] some questions. [1:48:36] Let me be plain about it. [1:48:38] Your organization [1:48:39] started good, [1:48:40] wanted to dismantle hate, [1:48:43] yet you actually increased it. [1:48:44] You promised to confront extremists. [1:48:46] Instead, [1:48:47] your indictment alleges [1:48:48] you recruited extremists. [1:48:50] You bankrolled extremists. [1:48:52] You funded extremists. [1:48:53] Your organization [1:48:54] is straight from its goal [1:48:56] of bringing a country together [1:48:57] and healing, [1:48:58] and now it's just trying [1:48:59] to drive us apart. [1:49:01] So tell me, [1:49:03] why? [1:49:04] If I'm not right, [1:49:05] I mean, [1:49:06] why is there any indictment? [1:49:07] Why are all those charges there? [1:49:09] I know you're going to say [1:49:10] they're not true, [1:49:11] but you told the donors [1:49:13] that their donations [1:49:14] would go towards [1:49:15] dismantling these groups. [1:49:17] Did you also tell your donors [1:49:18] that their money [1:49:19] would go directly, [1:49:20] directly into the pockets [1:49:22] of members [1:49:23] whose groups [1:49:24] you pledged to destroy? [1:49:26] I'm a donor. [1:49:27] I give you money [1:49:27] to stop all this hate, [1:49:29] and you're taking the money, [1:49:30] and you're putting it [1:49:31] in the haters' pocket. [1:49:32] Did you tell them that? [1:49:38] Your mic's not on. [1:49:40] Sorry. [1:49:41] Congressman Van Drew, [1:49:43] as I said earlier, [1:49:46] all the allegations [1:49:48] in the indictment [1:49:50] will be addressed [1:49:53] in the Middle District [1:49:53] of Alabama. [1:49:54] We have said publicly, [1:49:56] I'm sorry, [1:49:56] we have said publicly [1:49:57] that the Department of Justice [1:50:00] knew that we did not [1:50:02] give money [1:50:03] to any organizations [1:50:04] in the statement [1:50:06] you suggested we did. [1:50:08] We did not. [1:50:09] The Department of Justice [1:50:11] knew that we were working [1:50:12] with law enforcement, [1:50:14] including the FBI. [1:50:15] So we've, [1:50:17] in public documents [1:50:18] and filings, [1:50:19] have addressed [1:50:20] some of the things [1:50:21] you said. [1:50:22] We will address others [1:50:23] in the criminal case [1:50:25] pending [1:50:25] in the Middle District [1:50:27] of Alabama. [1:50:27] Thank you for your answer. [1:50:28] I'm telling you, [1:50:29] it's going to be shocking [1:50:30] because I think [1:50:31] it's going to be surprising [1:50:32] to good Americans [1:50:33] where that money went [1:50:35] and how it increased hate. [1:50:37] And I'm going to ask [1:50:37] you this question, [1:50:38] but again, [1:50:38] you're not going to answer it. [1:50:40] You don't tell donors, [1:50:41] I bet, [1:50:41] and you can answer [1:50:42] just yes or no, [1:50:43] that the money they gave [1:50:44] would buy wood and fuel [1:50:45] for a cross burning. [1:50:47] Do you tell them that? [1:50:48] Did you tell them [1:50:49] what it was used for? [1:50:50] Congressman Van Drillen? [1:50:51] I know, [1:50:51] it's going to be addressed. [1:50:52] It is going to be addressed. [1:50:53] And you guys are going [1:50:54] to be in trouble. [1:50:55] And you're going to have [1:50:56] a real problem [1:50:56] on your hands. [1:50:57] We believe our donors [1:50:59] support all of our work. [1:51:01] I yield back [1:51:02] to the chairman. [1:51:03] Mr. Chairman, [1:51:04] I have a UC. [1:51:05] Do you have a consent request? [1:51:07] Yes, [1:51:08] this is an article [1:51:09] from ProPublica. [1:51:10] Members of several [1:51:12] well-known hate groups [1:51:13] identified at Capitol Riot. [1:51:17] Objection. [1:51:18] And the next one [1:51:20] is from Salon. [1:51:22] And it says, [1:51:23] SPLC indictments [1:51:24] lend support to hate groups [1:51:25] for decades. [1:51:26] The Southern Poverty Law Center [1:51:27] has fought hate. [1:51:29] Now the Justice Department [1:51:30] wants to stop it. [1:51:31] Without objection, [1:51:32] chair no. [1:51:32] Mr. Chairman, [1:51:33] I have a unanimous consent [1:51:34] as well. [1:51:35] I'm from Texas. [1:51:36] My colleague, [1:51:37] Ms. Jasmine Crockett, [1:51:38] said she was unaware [1:51:39] that children's genitalia [1:51:42] was being cut off. [1:51:43] I'd like to submit [1:51:44] this article [1:51:45] that says, [1:51:47] Trump administration [1:51:48] lauds plastic surgeon's [1:51:49] statement [1:51:50] on trans surgery [1:51:51] for minors. [1:51:52] I'll send you a copy, [1:51:53] Ms. Crockett, [1:51:54] so you can learn more [1:51:55] about this heinous practice. [1:51:56] Mr. Chairman, [1:51:56] just for purposes [1:51:57] of the record, [1:51:58] I want to... [1:51:59] I know that... [1:51:59] I know that that side [1:52:01] doesn't have too many women, [1:52:03] so we may all look alike, [1:52:04] but that was actually [1:52:05] my colleague. [1:52:07] I take full credit. [1:52:08] Gentlemen. [1:52:09] I apologize. [1:52:11] I just assumed [1:52:11] it was you, [1:52:12] Ms. Crockett. [1:52:12] Please forgive me. [1:52:14] Mr. Chairman [1:52:15] from New Jersey, [1:52:16] for you, sir. [1:52:16] Unanimous consent [1:52:17] from YouTube. [1:52:19] DOJ indictment [1:52:20] alleges SPLC-funded [1:52:21] Klan activities, [1:52:23] including reimbursements [1:52:25] for cross burnings. [1:52:26] Without objection, [1:52:26] the chair recognizes [1:52:27] the gentleman [1:52:27] from Colorado. [1:52:30] Thank you, [1:52:30] Mr. Chairman. [1:52:31] Thank you to all [1:52:32] of our witnesses [1:52:32] for being here today [1:52:34] and for your testimony, [1:52:35] reviewed all of your [1:52:35] written testimony, [1:52:37] and appreciate the opportunity [1:52:37] to ask you a couple [1:52:38] of questions about it. [1:52:40] Mr. Banger, [1:52:40] you work for Alliance [1:52:42] Defending Freedom, [1:52:44] correct? [1:52:45] Yes, sir. [1:52:45] Okay. [1:52:46] I reviewed your written testimony. [1:52:49] Safe to say you disagree [1:52:50] with the Southern Poverty Law Center's [1:52:52] designation of your group, [1:52:55] right? [1:52:55] We do. [1:52:56] Okay. [1:52:56] And based on your written testimony [1:52:59] and based off some of what [1:53:00] I found on your website, [1:53:01] some deep resentment [1:53:01] about that designation. [1:53:03] Fair to say. [1:53:04] Yes, sir. [1:53:05] We don't resent them. [1:53:06] We disagree with them. [1:53:07] Disagree with them. [1:53:07] Okay. [1:53:07] Well, [1:53:08] as I look at your testimony [1:53:09] and as I review your website, [1:53:11] it is pretty clear [1:53:12] that you view [1:53:13] Southern Poverty Law Center [1:53:14] as an adversary [1:53:15] or is that a fair characterization? [1:53:17] We have disagreements [1:53:18] with them on a number [1:53:19] of issues, [1:53:20] including policy and otherwise. [1:53:21] That's how you would [1:53:22] describe them? [1:53:23] Disagreements? [1:53:24] I mean, [1:53:24] the words that you use [1:53:26] to describe the Southern Poverty Law Center [1:53:27] do not strike me [1:53:28] as a simple matter [1:53:29] of disagreement. [1:53:30] It seems pretty clear to me [1:53:31] based on your website, [1:53:33] based on your testimony, [1:53:33] I don't know why [1:53:34] you'd be walking away [1:53:35] from that now, [1:53:35] that you vehemently disagree [1:53:38] with the Southern Poverty Law Center, [1:53:39] that you are pleased [1:53:41] that they have been indicted. [1:53:43] You have called. [1:53:44] I mean, [1:53:44] this is from your recommendations [1:53:46] for congressional action. [1:53:48] Direct banking regulators [1:53:49] to investigate ECOA [1:53:51] and Regulation B compliance [1:53:52] at institutions [1:53:53] using SPLC-linked vetting tools. [1:53:56] Right? [1:53:56] So you are calling [1:53:57] for investigations [1:53:59] into the Southern Poverty Law Center. [1:54:00] That doesn't sound like something [1:54:01] that you would do [1:54:02] with someone you disagree with. [1:54:04] This is... [1:54:04] Am I wrong? [1:54:07] Well, Congressman, [1:54:07] any time that a designation [1:54:10] by a non-profit [1:54:11] that's politically unaccountable [1:54:12] is being used [1:54:13] by federally regulated banks [1:54:15] to discriminate [1:54:15] based on religious belief, [1:54:18] that's something [1:54:18] that the government [1:54:19] should be aware of [1:54:20] and should look into. [1:54:20] And so I'm simply saying [1:54:22] that I didn't expect [1:54:24] to have this much [1:54:25] of an extended back and forth [1:54:26] on the premise of the question. [1:54:28] I think that your bosses [1:54:29] at Alliance Defending Freedom, [1:54:31] if they were testifying here, [1:54:32] would say, [1:54:32] we vehemently disagree [1:54:33] with Southern Poverty Law Center. [1:54:34] They're an adversary. [1:54:36] They are an enemy. [1:54:37] We are glad [1:54:37] that they have been indicted [1:54:39] and we are calling [1:54:40] for more investigations of them, [1:54:42] which you did [1:54:43] in the written testimony [1:54:44] that you provided [1:54:45] to this committee. [1:54:46] Do you think [1:54:46] it would be inappropriate [1:54:47] to harness [1:54:49] a criminal prosecution [1:54:51] of an entity [1:54:53] to pursue the enemies [1:54:56] of your organization? [1:54:58] Would that be [1:54:58] an inappropriate thing to do? [1:55:00] Well, Congressman... [1:55:01] No, that's a yes or no question. [1:55:02] You can ask... [1:55:03] If you don't think [1:55:04] it's inappropriate, [1:55:05] you can say no. [1:55:07] If there's true criminal activity, [1:55:08] then of course the government [1:55:09] has the right to investigate. [1:55:11] Sure, but if there's [1:55:11] no criminal activity, [1:55:12] it would be wrong [1:55:13] to do that, right? [1:55:13] It depends upon [1:55:15] what the facts ultimately show. [1:55:16] Mr. Binger, [1:55:17] this is why I asked the question. [1:55:19] You are a former attorney general... [1:55:20] I think you know [1:55:21] why I'm asking you the question. [1:55:22] You're a former [1:55:22] deputy attorney general [1:55:23] within the Texas [1:55:24] Office of Attorney General. [1:55:26] You went to the FBI [1:55:27] and gave a whistleblower complaint [1:55:30] about Ken Paxton, [1:55:32] the attorney general of Texas. [1:55:33] You did so [1:55:34] because you believed [1:55:35] that there was criminal wrongdoing. [1:55:37] Let me read this quote. [1:55:39] In my view, [1:55:40] the criminal process [1:55:41] had been harnessed [1:55:43] to pursue the business enemies [1:55:44] of an individual [1:55:45] who also happened [1:55:47] to be under intensive investigation [1:55:49] by law enforcement. [1:55:50] That's your quote [1:55:51] from an article [1:55:52] a few years ago [1:55:53] after you went to the FBI [1:55:55] about Mr. Paxton. [1:55:56] It is very clear [1:55:57] that Alliance Defending Freedom [1:55:59] and a wide variety [1:56:00] of other organizations [1:56:01] that have been designated [1:56:03] by the Southern Poverty Law Center [1:56:04] resent it, [1:56:06] vehemently disagree with it, [1:56:08] have been demanding [1:56:08] a criminal investigation [1:56:10] and indictment of SPLC, [1:56:11] and they have now [1:56:12] gotten their wishes [1:56:13] from the president's [1:56:14] personal lawyer [1:56:15] who, of course, [1:56:16] as we know, [1:56:16] now serves [1:56:17] as the interim attorney general [1:56:18] of the United States. [1:56:19] And I just think [1:56:20] it's important [1:56:21] for us to be candid [1:56:22] about that. [1:56:24] I don't know [1:56:24] if the chairman agrees [1:56:26] with you going to the FBI [1:56:28] about Ken Paxton. [1:56:29] I'm not sure [1:56:30] if Mr. Gill [1:56:31] or Mr. Roy [1:56:33] or some of my colleagues here, [1:56:34] maybe they'll ask you [1:56:35] a question or two [1:56:36] about the Republican [1:56:37] Attorney General of Texas [1:56:38] and why it was appropriate [1:56:40] for you to go to the FBI [1:56:41] with allegations [1:56:43] of wrongdoing. [1:56:44] I'm certainly glad [1:56:44] that you did that. [1:56:46] I would tell you [1:56:46] that, like you, [1:56:48] the SPLC, [1:56:49] as I understand it, [1:56:51] has gone to the FBI [1:56:52] on many occasions [1:56:53] to provide the FBI [1:56:55] with information [1:56:56] about suspected [1:56:57] criminal activity. [1:57:00] And, in fact, [1:57:02] that criminal activity, [1:57:03] the reported criminal activity, [1:57:04] has ultimately [1:57:05] been prosecuted. [1:57:06] By the way, [1:57:08] not by President Biden's [1:57:09] Justice Department, [1:57:10] but by Donald Trump's [1:57:11] Justice Department. [1:57:13] And the best example [1:57:14] of this, [1:57:14] which was brought up earlier, [1:57:16] was the potential [1:57:17] mass terror attack [1:57:18] at a synagogue [1:57:20] in Las Vegas. [1:57:22] Mr. Fair, [1:57:22] I think you've already [1:57:23] attested to this, [1:57:24] but just to be clear, [1:57:26] your organization [1:57:27] gave information [1:57:29] from a paid informant [1:57:31] to the FBI [1:57:32] when Donald Trump [1:57:33] was president. [1:57:34] And Donald Trump's FBI [1:57:36] used that information [1:57:38] to prosecute someone [1:57:40] to prevent them [1:57:41] from engaging [1:57:42] in this mass terror attack. [1:57:43] Is that true? [1:57:44] That is correct. [1:57:45] That is correct. [1:57:46] Thank you, Mr. Fair. [1:57:47] Thank you, Mr. Bankert. [1:57:48] Time to yield back. [1:57:49] Gentleman yields back. [1:57:49] Time to the gentleman inspired. [1:57:50] The chair recognizes [1:57:51] the gentleman from Texas, [1:57:52] Mr. Gooden. [1:57:53] Mr. Fair, [1:57:54] during the Biden-Harris [1:57:55] administration, [1:57:55] the SPLC included [1:57:57] many mainstream conservative [1:57:58] groups in their hate map, [1:58:00] including Alliance Defending Freedom, [1:58:02] Charlie Kirk's Turning Point USA, [1:58:04] and Family Research Council. [1:58:06] To your knowledge, [1:58:07] did the SPLC include Antifa, [1:58:09] which is an actual [1:58:10] domestic terrorist organization [1:58:12] in its hate group? [1:58:15] Congressman Gooden, [1:58:16] just for the record, [1:58:18] the SPLC does not have [1:58:19] a domestic terrorist list. [1:58:22] I'm not sure [1:58:22] what Dr. King was referring to, [1:58:24] what list she's referring to. [1:58:26] As I understand, [1:58:28] she's on none of our list. [1:58:30] We have a list [1:58:32] that identifies groups [1:58:33] based on the statements [1:58:35] that they and their leaders make. [1:58:36] Is Antifa on your hate map? [1:58:39] Again, as I said earlier, [1:58:41] Congressman Gooden, [1:58:42] it's my understanding [1:58:43] that the FBI has said... [1:58:45] So they're not. [1:58:45] Let me ask you this. [1:58:46] Has SPLC labeled [1:58:48] the radical left group [1:58:49] Jane's Revenge [1:58:50] as a hate group? [1:58:52] This group has publicly [1:58:53] taken responsibility [1:58:54] for vandalizing [1:58:54] and destroying [1:58:56] pregnancy resource centers [1:58:57] and Catholic churches [1:58:58] since May 2022. [1:59:00] Have you all designated [1:59:01] that on your hate map? [1:59:03] Congressman Gooden, [1:59:05] if you've looked [1:59:07] at our hate map, [1:59:07] you know the criteria [1:59:08] we set for designating groups. [1:59:12] One designation [1:59:13] is when a group [1:59:15] expresses, vilifies, [1:59:18] demonizes individuals [1:59:19] based on immutable characteristics. [1:59:21] The second is a group [1:59:23] that expresses [1:59:25] anti-government [1:59:27] conspiracy theories. [1:59:29] So destroying [1:59:32] pregnancy resource centers [1:59:33] in Catholic churches [1:59:34] would not qualify [1:59:35] as hate [1:59:36] under your definition. [1:59:37] You guys are okay with that. [1:59:39] But God forbid [1:59:40] turning point [1:59:41] holds a rally. [1:59:42] That's considered hate [1:59:42] but destroying [1:59:43] a Catholic church [1:59:44] or a pregnancy resource [1:59:45] is not. [1:59:46] Just to be clear, [1:59:47] help me understand. [1:59:48] Congressman Gooden, [1:59:50] the SPLC [1:59:51] establishes [1:59:54] its own criteria [1:59:55] and any other group [1:59:57] can create [1:59:58] its own list. [2:00:00] Under our criteria, [2:00:02] we've designated [2:00:03] those groups [2:00:04] based on what they've said. [2:00:05] Under your criteria, [2:00:06] Turning Point USA [2:00:07] Family Research Council [2:00:08] and other [2:00:09] conservative Christian groups [2:00:11] are considered [2:00:12] hate groups. [2:00:13] But Antifa [2:00:13] and Jane's Revenge [2:00:15] that burns down [2:00:16] Catholic churches [2:00:17] and pregnancy resource centers, [2:00:18] those are not hate groups. [2:00:20] It sounds like you're [2:00:20] really proud of that process. [2:00:22] I'll move on [2:00:23] because I frankly [2:00:24] think it's disgusting. [2:00:25] And you know what? [2:00:26] I'd actually ask for you [2:00:27] to add me to your hate map. [2:00:29] I'd be honored to be on it. [2:00:30] It sounds like [2:00:30] I'd be in great company. [2:00:32] During the Biden-Harris [2:00:32] administration, [2:00:33] the FBI's [2:00:34] Richmond Field Office [2:00:35] relied on information [2:00:36] from the SPLC [2:00:38] when creating [2:00:38] its memorandum [2:00:39] that categorized [2:00:40] certain Catholics [2:00:41] as racially motivated [2:00:43] violent extremists. [2:00:45] Do you believe [2:00:46] that Americans [2:00:46] practicing their [2:00:47] Christian faith [2:00:48] and exercising [2:00:49] their First Amendment rights [2:00:50] are violent extremists? [2:00:51] Congressman Gooden, [2:00:54] the SPLC [2:00:55] doesn't identify [2:00:56] any group [2:00:57] based on religion. [2:00:58] We too believe [2:00:59] in religious liberty. [2:01:00] We identify groups [2:01:02] based on the statements [2:01:03] they make, [2:01:04] that their leaders make, [2:01:05] based on their activities [2:01:06] that target [2:01:07] various group-based groups. [2:01:10] Well, [2:01:10] many of these statements [2:01:10] are based on religious beliefs. [2:01:13] So I'd take issue with that. [2:01:15] Let me ask you, [2:01:15] were your donors [2:01:16] informed [2:01:17] of your partnership [2:01:18] with federal agencies [2:01:19] under Biden-Harris [2:01:20] administration? [2:01:21] Did you let them know that, [2:01:23] that you all [2:01:23] were working with them? [2:01:26] Congressman Gooden, [2:01:27] the SPLC has worked [2:01:29] with every administration [2:01:30] since our founding [2:01:31] to advance racial justice [2:01:34] and equality [2:01:35] in this country. [2:01:37] We believe our donors [2:01:38] and supporters [2:01:39] support all of the work [2:01:42] that we do. [2:01:45] So funding radical racist groups [2:01:48] is something that your donors [2:01:50] are on board with. [2:01:51] I have a hard time [2:01:51] believing that. [2:01:52] Mr. Jordan, [2:01:53] I'll yield the balance to you. [2:01:54] I thank the gentleman [2:01:56] for yielding. [2:01:59] Mr. Fair, [2:02:00] if you're trying to stop hate, [2:02:01] why would you encourage people [2:02:02] to attend a hate rally? [2:02:04] The SPLC doesn't encourage people [2:02:12] to attend hate rallies, [2:02:15] Chairman Jordan. [2:02:16] And if you're referring [2:02:17] to any allegations [2:02:18] in the indictment... [2:02:19] I'm just asking in general. [2:02:21] I'm not saying with... [2:02:22] It's one thing, [2:02:23] you've said you've had informants [2:02:24] and you had field sources. [2:02:25] If you have informants [2:02:26] and field sources there, [2:02:27] that's one thing. [2:02:28] But the indictment says [2:02:29] that these informants [2:02:30] and field sources [2:02:30] were encouraging other people [2:02:31] to attend these hate rallies. [2:02:33] And I'm saying, okay, [2:02:35] so you don't have to answer [2:02:36] that specifically, [2:02:36] but is that a good thing [2:02:37] in general? [2:02:39] Again, all the allegations [2:02:40] and the indictment... [2:02:41] Do you wish... [2:02:42] Chairman Jordan... [2:02:43] Okay. [2:02:43] ...will be addressed. [2:02:45] Do you wish you hadn't [2:02:46] done the program? [2:02:48] You said the program [2:02:49] was successful and helpful, [2:02:51] but now you're stopping it. [2:02:52] We stopped the program [2:02:58] because we believe [2:02:59] hate and extremism [2:03:01] has migrated significantly online [2:03:05] and into government agencies. [2:03:08] Wow. [2:03:10] Wow. [2:03:10] That's big. [2:03:13] That makes no sense. [2:03:15] The chair now recognizes... [2:03:16] Mr. Chairman, [2:03:18] I've got a UC request, [2:03:19] if that's all right. [2:03:20] Gentlemen, [2:03:20] consider the UC request. [2:03:21] Okay. [2:03:22] First, I ask unanimous consent [2:03:23] to introduce this article [2:03:25] about whether, in fact, [2:03:28] people have been driven [2:03:28] from the public square. [2:03:30] 2025 was a banner year [2:03:31] for Alliance Defending Freedom [2:03:33] in their newsletter. [2:03:36] and I ask unanimous consent [2:03:38] to introduce for the record [2:03:39] a report by the DOJ's [2:03:40] Office of the Inspector General [2:03:41] which found no evidence [2:03:43] of anti-Catholic bias [2:03:44] or malicious intent [2:03:45] on the part of the FBI personnel [2:03:47] who prepared [2:03:49] the Richmond domain perspective. [2:03:50] Even though they apologize for it? [2:03:53] Well, I've got the report [2:03:54] right here from the Inspector General. [2:03:55] Well, we have the apology [2:03:56] from Director Wray, [2:03:57] so you typically don't apologize [2:03:59] for something [2:03:59] if you didn't do anything at all. [2:04:01] Let's submit it to the record [2:04:01] and let everybody read both of them. [2:04:03] Yeah, okay. [2:04:04] We'll have to submit [2:04:05] to Director Wray's statement as well. [2:04:07] Chair now recognizes [2:04:08] the gentlelady from North Carolina. [2:04:09] Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman. [2:04:12] It is beyond ridiculous [2:04:14] that we are having yet [2:04:15] a second hearing on this topic, [2:04:18] something that is in active litigation [2:04:20] and that the courts should sort out. [2:04:23] It's especially ridiculous [2:04:25] because we've had no oversight hearings [2:04:29] of what the DOJ is doing [2:04:32] under Mr. Blanche [2:04:33] when he is about to be [2:04:35] in front of the Senate [2:04:38] for confirmation for Attorney General [2:04:40] and he has had so many incidents [2:04:44] that are worthy of investigation, [2:04:46] including his handling [2:04:47] of the Epstein files [2:04:49] and Ghislaine Maxwell's transfer [2:04:51] to Club Fed. [2:04:53] But that's not why we're here today. [2:04:56] My colleagues on the other side [2:04:57] have continued to cite the indictment [2:05:00] as if it is some kind of proof, [2:05:02] proof, it's just an indictment, [2:05:05] that SPLC has engaged in wrongdoing. [2:05:08] This indictment essentially states [2:05:10] that making payments [2:05:12] to a confidential informant [2:05:13] to infiltrate violent extremist organizations [2:05:16] is the exact same thing [2:05:19] as supporting those organizations. [2:05:22] That also is ridiculous. [2:05:25] The FBI pays informants all the time. [2:05:28] Are they supporting the groups [2:05:30] that they're trying to undermine? [2:05:31] This is a bizarre Alice in Wonderland theory. [2:05:36] And if allowed to stand, [2:05:38] it would call into question [2:05:39] decades of intelligence [2:05:41] and law enforcement practices [2:05:43] used to prevent violence [2:05:45] and dismantle criminal networks. [2:05:49] Mr. Fair, [2:05:51] how does the intelligence [2:05:52] and extremist monitoring program [2:05:55] within SPLC [2:05:56] support, support, [2:05:59] your work [2:06:00] to combat violent hate groups [2:06:02] in America? [2:06:04] Thank you, Congresswoman Ross. [2:06:06] Our confidential informant program [2:06:08] helped save lives. [2:06:11] We shared information [2:06:12] with law enforcement. [2:06:14] It helped protect the public. [2:06:15] It helped protect our staff. [2:06:19] We were able to gather intelligence [2:06:22] and dismantle some of these groups. [2:06:27] Thank you. [2:06:28] It is astounding [2:06:29] that our own Department of Justice, [2:06:32] which benefited [2:06:33] from this intelligence gathering, [2:06:36] seems not to understand [2:06:37] how this process works. [2:06:39] But that's the current [2:06:41] Department of Justice. [2:06:43] Ms. McCord, [2:06:44] you were a federal prosecutor [2:06:46] for two decades [2:06:47] and led the National Security Division [2:06:50] of the DOJ, [2:06:51] which prosecutes crimes [2:06:54] like domestic terrorism. [2:06:55] Did your work ever involve [2:06:59] or rely on [2:07:00] paid confidential informants? [2:07:04] Yes. [2:07:05] It is a practice, [2:07:07] an investigative technique, [2:07:09] tactic strategy [2:07:09] that is used by law enforcement, [2:07:12] paid informants, [2:07:13] cooperators, [2:07:13] not only to investigate [2:07:14] potential crimes of terrorism, [2:07:17] but also drug trafficking rings, [2:07:19] human trafficking rings, [2:07:20] child pedophilia. [2:07:21] And can you give us [2:07:23] an example [2:07:23] of when information [2:07:26] from an informant [2:07:28] was used [2:07:29] to build a federal case [2:07:31] against a criminal network? [2:07:34] There are many examples, [2:07:36] Congresswoman Ross, [2:07:37] and certainly oftentimes [2:07:38] this results [2:07:40] in allegations [2:07:41] in indictments, [2:07:42] including the information [2:07:43] provided by paid informants, [2:07:45] and oftentimes [2:07:45] testimony at trial [2:07:47] that also comes [2:07:48] directly from informants. [2:07:50] Great. [2:07:50] Thank you, Ms. McCord. [2:07:52] This is essential work. [2:07:53] And of course, [2:07:54] we know that SPLC donors [2:07:56] have absolutely no problem [2:07:58] with this practice. [2:08:00] As one of them stated [2:08:01] in the wake of this indictment, [2:08:03] we knew they were paying informants. [2:08:07] The indictment is a laughingstock. [2:08:10] It is on specious legal grounds. [2:08:14] Veteran prosecutors [2:08:15] have called this indictment [2:08:17] frail and deficient [2:08:19] and particularly weak. [2:08:22] One federal civil rights prosecutor [2:08:24] and FBI agent [2:08:26] even stated, [2:08:27] and I quote, [2:08:28] I don't think any prosecutor [2:08:30] with white-collar experience [2:08:33] would look at this indictment [2:08:34] and believe it makes out [2:08:36] the elements of a crime. [2:08:39] It is not a valid indictment. [2:08:42] We know why this indictment [2:08:44] was brought. [2:08:45] It's just one of the many [2:08:47] weaponized moves [2:08:48] that Todd Blanche [2:08:50] and the DOJ has taken [2:08:52] at the president's behest [2:08:54] to silence dissent [2:08:56] for his month-long audition [2:08:59] for attorney general. [2:09:01] And he's going to get [2:09:03] his time in front of the cameras. [2:09:05] This is proving loyalty [2:09:08] to Donald Trump, [2:09:09] but it's clearly not loyalty [2:09:12] to the law. [2:09:13] I yield back. [2:09:14] He yields back. [2:09:15] Gentleman from Arizona's Rek Nais. [2:09:16] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [2:09:17] Thank you, everyone, [2:09:18] for being here today. [2:09:19] Mr. Fair, [2:09:20] are you familiar [2:09:21] with J&J Electronics? [2:09:28] Are you familiar [2:09:28] with Kelly's Marine? [2:09:32] Congressman Biggs. [2:09:34] I'm sorry, Congressman Biggs. [2:09:36] I'm not sure [2:09:37] that I'm familiar with them. [2:09:38] If they are... [2:09:40] Are you familiar [2:09:40] with Turner Personnel? [2:09:44] If these are names [2:09:47] of companies [2:09:48] in the indictment, [2:09:49] they will be addressed [2:09:51] in the criminal case pending... [2:09:53] You seem puzzled, [2:09:55] the look on your face, [2:09:57] in case that maybe [2:09:57] you weren't familiar [2:09:59] with them, [2:09:59] but I don't know. [2:10:02] Isn't it true [2:10:03] that those fictitious companies, [2:10:05] the nine of them, [2:10:06] were set up [2:10:07] by SPLC employees? [2:10:11] Congressman Biggs, [2:10:12] all of those allegations [2:10:14] in the indictment [2:10:15] will be addressed [2:10:15] in the Middle District [2:10:16] of Alabama [2:10:17] by SPLC's counsel. [2:10:19] Isn't it true [2:10:19] that SPLC created [2:10:20] bank accounts [2:10:21] in the names [2:10:21] of those nine companies [2:10:23] that actually did not exist? [2:10:27] Congressman Biggs, [2:10:28] all of those allegations [2:10:30] in the indictment [2:10:31] will be addressed... [2:10:31] Same answer. [2:10:32] Isn't it true [2:10:33] that one bank [2:10:33] investigated and found [2:10:34] that the accounts [2:10:35] were fake, [2:10:36] that the accounts [2:10:37] were all fake? [2:10:40] Same answer, [2:10:41] Congressman. [2:10:42] And isn't it true [2:10:43] that SPLC admitted [2:10:44] in writing [2:10:45] that those entities [2:10:45] were, quote, [2:10:46] open for the benefit [2:10:47] of Southern Poverty [2:10:48] Law Center operations, [2:10:49] close quote? [2:10:51] There are allegations [2:10:52] in the indictment [2:10:52] that will be addressed [2:10:53] in the Middle District [2:10:54] of Alabama [2:10:55] by SPLC's counsel. [2:10:56] And isn't it true [2:10:57] that executing bank documents [2:10:59] claiming to own a company [2:10:59] that does not exist [2:11:00] is lying to [2:11:01] federally insured bank? [2:11:02] And I'll assume [2:11:05] that you're going [2:11:05] to give me [2:11:05] the same answer. [2:11:09] All the indict... [2:11:10] The superseding indictment [2:11:11] describes a field source [2:11:12] referred to as F9, [2:11:15] if you go to page 6 [2:11:15] of the indictment. [2:11:17] F9 fundraised [2:11:18] for the Neo-Nazi [2:11:19] National Alliance [2:11:19] while receiving SPLC funds. [2:11:22] He received [2:11:22] at least 1.2 million dollars. [2:11:24] He was in a romantic [2:11:25] relationship [2:11:26] with the SPLC employee [2:11:27] who oversaw [2:11:28] all payments [2:11:28] to field sources. [2:11:30] Isn't that true? [2:11:32] That's an allegation [2:11:33] in the indictment [2:11:34] that will be addressed [2:11:35] in the Middle District [2:11:36] of Alabama. [2:11:36] Well, I hope [2:11:37] they address it [2:11:37] because your employee [2:11:40] shared a home [2:11:41] with F9 [2:11:42] and two bank accounts. [2:11:44] Isn't that true? [2:11:47] That is an allegation [2:11:49] in the indictment. [2:11:51] Did you know [2:11:51] the person [2:11:52] who was overseeing [2:11:52] payments to field sources? [2:11:56] I do not know. [2:11:59] So you didn't know [2:12:00] that the person [2:12:01] who was in charge [2:12:02] of overseeing payments [2:12:03] to field sources, [2:12:04] which you claim [2:12:05] was a big, [2:12:06] important program, [2:12:07] you didn't know [2:12:08] that that individual [2:12:09] was living with [2:12:10] and sharing bank accounts [2:12:11] with one of your [2:12:12] clandestine sources? [2:12:15] That's an allegation [2:12:16] in the indictment, [2:12:17] Congressman Biggs, [2:12:18] that will be addressed. [2:12:20] That individual, [2:12:21] you didn't know that, [2:12:22] basically, [2:12:23] is what the look [2:12:23] on your face says, [2:12:24] but here's the deal. [2:12:25] The look on my face says [2:12:26] that all of those [2:12:27] allegations in the indictment, [2:12:29] Congressman Biggs... [2:12:29] That's what your mouth says, [2:12:30] but your look on your face [2:12:31] says you had no idea [2:12:32] because the individual [2:12:33] later became a director [2:12:34] of your intelligence project. [2:12:36] Did you approve [2:12:37] that promotion? [2:12:43] Congressman Biggs, [2:12:44] I've been serving [2:12:47] as the interim [2:12:48] president of the SPLC [2:12:51] since July. [2:12:52] I don't know [2:12:53] what time frame [2:12:53] you're referring to, [2:12:55] first of all, [2:12:56] and second, [2:12:57] all the allegations [2:12:58] in the indictment [2:12:59] will be addressed [2:13:00] in a criminal proceeding [2:13:01] where they belong. [2:13:02] You keep saying that, [2:13:03] that's interesting. [2:13:05] There is a due process clause. [2:13:06] You were the one, [2:13:07] you were the one [2:13:09] that approved [2:13:10] the promotion [2:13:11] of that individual [2:13:11] to become director [2:13:12] of intelligence project, [2:13:14] did you not? [2:13:14] Congressman Biggs, [2:13:18] all of the allegations [2:13:20] in the indictment. [2:13:20] That's not an indictment question. [2:13:25] So when did you learn [2:13:26] about the nature [2:13:27] of their relationship? [2:13:28] I'm not sure [2:13:31] what time period [2:13:32] you're referring to. [2:13:34] Well, in 2014, [2:13:35] F-9 broke into [2:13:36] the headquarters [2:13:37] of an organization, [2:13:38] stole 25 boxes [2:13:39] of documents, [2:13:40] transported those [2:13:41] across state lines, [2:13:42] and he was paid money [2:13:44] by that individual [2:13:46] and continued to receive money [2:13:47] for 20 years, [2:13:49] in total receiving [2:13:50] allegedly $1.2 million. [2:13:52] and he's the one, [2:13:54] F-9 is the one [2:13:55] that was involved [2:13:56] in the romantic relationship [2:13:57] with your employee. [2:13:59] And I want to know, [2:14:00] are you telling us [2:14:01] that you never knew [2:14:02] about that relationship [2:14:03] even as you sit here today? [2:14:05] I'm telling you first [2:14:06] that all the allegations [2:14:08] in the indictment [2:14:09] will be addressed [2:14:10] in the Middle District [2:14:11] of Alabama [2:14:12] in the criminal case [2:14:13] pending before that court. [2:14:16] And I'm telling you a second, [2:14:17] I don't know [2:14:17] what period you're referring to. [2:14:20] Did you take any [2:14:21] personnel action [2:14:22] after you learned it? [2:14:22] Mr. Chairman, [2:14:25] the time's way up here. [2:14:27] Oh, it's eight seconds. [2:14:28] Oh, boy, that's way up. [2:14:29] Well, I'm glad you conceded that. [2:14:30] Yeah, yeah. [2:14:31] You're great at vouchering [2:14:32] the witnesses, [2:14:33] but just obey the rules. [2:14:34] We've been listening, [2:14:35] we've been listening [2:14:35] to your guys go [2:14:36] 30, 45 seconds over. [2:14:37] Arizona, [2:14:38] and his time has expired. [2:14:39] The chair will note [2:14:40] that the ranking member [2:14:41] got, I think, [2:14:42] 13 minutes [2:14:43] in an opening statement, [2:14:44] so we're pretty leaning [2:14:45] on the time around here. [2:14:48] The gentlelady from Vermont [2:14:49] is recognized [2:14:49] for five minutes. [2:14:50] Thank you, Mr. Chair, [2:14:51] and I thank the witnesses [2:14:52] for being here. [2:14:53] We are now enduring [2:14:55] yet another hearing [2:14:57] of this committee [2:14:58] regarding Republicans' [2:14:59] absurd allegations [2:15:01] against the Southern Poverty Law Center. [2:15:03] And we already know [2:15:04] about the battle [2:15:06] between hateful extremist groups [2:15:08] and the civil rights litigators [2:15:09] at SPLC. [2:15:10] And we know [2:15:11] that President Trump, [2:15:13] Acting Attorney General Blanche, [2:15:14] and many other members [2:15:15] of this administration [2:15:16] have sided with extremists [2:15:18] over and over again. [2:15:20] This third hearing [2:15:21] is clearly part [2:15:23] of a broader effort [2:15:25] built on a pathetic, [2:15:26] blind loyalty [2:15:28] to one man, [2:15:29] Donald Trump. [2:15:31] President Trump prizes [2:15:32] loyalty over principles, [2:15:34] loyalty over values, [2:15:35] loyalty over competence, [2:15:38] and that is why [2:15:39] he wants to elevate [2:15:40] his personal lawyer [2:15:41] to serve [2:15:42] as our Attorney General. [2:15:44] Acting Attorney General Blanche [2:15:46] has quickly earned [2:15:47] President Trump's trust [2:15:48] by using [2:15:49] the Justice Department [2:15:50] to attack people [2:15:51] in groups like SPLC [2:15:53] that have stood up [2:15:54] to this administration [2:15:55] and its lawlessness. [2:15:57] Mr. Blanche has overseen [2:15:58] the creation of [2:15:59] perhaps the most [2:16:00] corrupt scheme [2:16:02] in our nation's history, [2:16:03] the DOJ weaponization [2:16:05] slush fund. [2:16:07] Blanche signed off [2:16:07] on an unconstitutional [2:16:09] agreement [2:16:09] to give taxpayers [2:16:10] money to criminals [2:16:13] and insurrectionists, [2:16:15] people who beat cops [2:16:16] in this building. [2:16:17] But that's not all. [2:16:18] Acting Attorney General [2:16:19] has also initiated [2:16:21] a criminal fraud investigation [2:16:23] of E. Jean Carroll, [2:16:24] the woman who successfully [2:16:26] sued Donald Trump [2:16:27] for sexual assault. [2:16:28] He has indicted [2:16:29] former FBI Director [2:16:30] James Comey [2:16:31] for an Instagram post [2:16:33] with seashells, [2:16:34] ladies and gentlemen, [2:16:36] seashells. [2:16:38] He has installed [2:16:38] a Trump loyalist [2:16:40] to replace [2:16:40] a career prosecutor [2:16:42] who would not indict [2:16:43] former CIA Director [2:16:45] John Brennan [2:16:45] on ridiculous charges. [2:16:47] That's what we're doing here. [2:16:48] Mr. Blanche [2:16:49] is clear about his role. [2:16:51] He knows he is auditioning [2:16:52] to be the president's lawyer, [2:16:56] his personal lawyer, [2:16:58] the job that he's had before. [2:17:00] He has said in his own word [2:17:01] that the president [2:17:02] has a, quote, [2:17:02] right and duty [2:17:04] to use the Justice Department [2:17:06] to investigate [2:17:07] his political enemies. [2:17:09] That absurd idea, [2:17:12] of course, [2:17:13] conflicts with the entire concept [2:17:15] of an independent DOJ. [2:17:18] Professor McCord, [2:17:19] is the role [2:17:20] of Attorney General [2:17:21] different from being [2:17:22] the president's [2:17:23] personal attorney? [2:17:25] Yes, it is, [2:17:26] Congressmember. [2:17:27] The role [2:17:27] of the Attorney General [2:17:28] is to take an oath [2:17:29] to the Constitution, [2:17:30] as every single prosecutor [2:17:32] in the Department of Justice does. [2:17:33] It is not an oath [2:17:35] to a person [2:17:35] and certainly not an oath [2:17:36] to the president. [2:17:37] That's absolutely right. [2:17:38] And why should [2:17:39] the Justice Department [2:17:40] be independent [2:17:42] from the office [2:17:43] of the president, [2:17:44] regardless of which [2:17:45] party is in power? [2:17:47] Since Watergate, [2:17:48] it has been important [2:17:49] to attorneys general [2:17:50] of both parties [2:17:52] that the American public [2:17:53] not believe [2:17:54] that the Department of Justice [2:17:55] will be used [2:17:56] for political purposes. [2:17:57] And so the policies [2:17:58] have been for more [2:17:59] than 50 years [2:18:00] until now [2:18:01] that it will not [2:18:02] be directed [2:18:03] by the White House [2:18:04] when it comes to [2:18:05] prosecutions [2:18:06] and investigations. [2:18:07] And what are those dangers? [2:18:08] You know, [2:18:08] the dangers of a system [2:18:09] where politically driven [2:18:11] prosecutions [2:18:12] become the norm? [2:18:14] Well, [2:18:15] certainly one of those dangers [2:18:16] is the infringement [2:18:17] on First Amendment rights, [2:18:18] among many other dangers. [2:18:20] There's the legitimacy [2:18:20] of the Department of Justice. [2:18:22] There's the integrity [2:18:23] of the prosecutors [2:18:24] when they go into court. [2:18:26] But on the First Amendment, [2:18:27] when we see targeting [2:18:28] of organizations [2:18:29] and individuals [2:18:30] based upon their speech, [2:18:31] and that includes [2:18:32] a number of the individuals [2:18:33] you mentioned [2:18:34] in your opening remarks, [2:18:36] that infringes [2:18:37] unconstitutional rights. [2:18:38] I agree with you. [2:18:39] And now we're [2:18:40] we're in a situation [2:18:42] right now [2:18:42] that I'd never [2:18:43] I never imagined [2:18:45] we would find ourselves in, [2:18:46] that we have a president [2:18:47] who has installed [2:18:49] a lackey to lead [2:18:50] the Department of Justice, [2:18:51] and now he wants [2:18:53] to make him permanent. [2:18:54] And I need [2:18:56] much more than five minutes [2:18:58] to touch on [2:18:59] all the ways [2:19:00] in which Mr. Blanche's [2:19:01] conduct [2:19:02] is disqualifying. [2:19:04] in this case alone [2:19:06] that we're here [2:19:07] once again discussing, [2:19:10] in this case alone [2:19:10] he has misled Americans [2:19:11] by stating on television [2:19:13] that he did not know [2:19:15] that SPLC [2:19:16] was giving informant information [2:19:18] to law enforcement. [2:19:21] And of course, [2:19:22] as my colleague [2:19:22] from North Carolina [2:19:23] has said, [2:19:24] Mr. Blanche [2:19:24] is a central figure [2:19:26] in the Epstein Files cover-up. [2:19:28] He was the person [2:19:28] who met [2:19:29] with Ghislaine Maxwell [2:19:30] before she was transferred [2:19:32] to a club-fed facility. [2:19:35] The accusations [2:19:36] against SPLC [2:19:37] are ridiculous. [2:19:40] Legal experts [2:19:41] are clear [2:19:42] that the indictment [2:19:43] being offered [2:19:44] by Mr. Blanche [2:19:45] is invalid. [2:19:46] But like all things [2:19:47] with this president, [2:19:48] it is both ridiculous [2:19:49] and completely serious. [2:19:52] We have to make clear [2:19:54] that his nomination [2:19:55] is nothing more [2:19:57] than a stamp of approval [2:19:59] for scandal [2:20:00] after corrupt scandal. [2:20:03] I yield back. [2:20:04] Senator Lee yields back. [2:20:05] The General Lee [2:20:05] from Florida, [2:20:06] Ms. Lee, is recognized. [2:20:07] Thank you. [2:20:08] I yield my time [2:20:09] to the chairman. [2:20:10] Oh, thank you. [2:20:12] Thank you, Representative. [2:20:13] Mr. Bangert, [2:20:15] a government-paid informant [2:20:17] and a law enforcement-paid informant [2:20:19] is different [2:20:20] than a private sector-paid informant. [2:20:22] Wouldn't you agree? [2:20:24] Yes, Mr. Chairman, I agree. [2:20:25] I mean, Ms. McCord said, [2:20:26] oh, she went this long thing. [2:20:28] I forget who was asking the question. [2:20:29] Oh, this paid informant [2:20:30] happens all the time. [2:20:31] Doesn't happen [2:20:31] in the private sector like that, right? [2:20:33] They're very different. [2:20:34] Yeah, very different. [2:20:34] Now, for all we know, [2:20:36] it could be the same people. [2:20:38] Maybe the government [2:20:38] was paying the same people [2:20:39] they were paying. [2:20:40] I don't know. [2:20:40] Maybe these guys [2:20:40] were double-dipping. [2:20:41] That's a question [2:20:41] I think worth exploring. [2:20:43] But the idea that, [2:20:45] oh, this is just fine, [2:20:46] particularly when [2:20:47] the private sector, [2:20:49] the private entity [2:20:50] doesn't tell their donors [2:20:51] what they're doing. [2:20:52] Would you agree with that? [2:20:53] That's not the same [2:20:55] as the FBI paying [2:20:56] an informant [2:20:57] for valuable information [2:20:59] or local law enforcement [2:21:00] paying an informant, [2:21:01] different animals, right? [2:21:02] I think the indictment [2:21:03] points out the discrepancy there. [2:21:05] Yeah, exactly. [2:21:06] And particularly, [2:21:07] I don't know, [2:21:08] maybe it's happened over time, [2:21:09] but, you know, [2:21:11] when you add to it [2:21:12] that the private entity [2:21:13] is paying an informant [2:21:15] or a field source [2:21:16] millions of dollars [2:21:18] that they're not [2:21:19] telling their donors, [2:21:20] that's different than [2:21:21] the FBI [2:21:22] or local law enforcement [2:21:23] paying some informant. [2:21:24] Wouldn't you agree? [2:21:25] I do agree, Chairman. [2:21:26] Okay, let's get to this issue [2:21:27] that the ranking member [2:21:29] raised early on [2:21:30] regarding the First Amendment. [2:21:31] I agree, [2:21:32] they can say whatever [2:21:32] they darn well want. [2:21:34] Of course we got [2:21:34] the First Amendment. [2:21:35] I mean, [2:21:35] we did a big investigation [2:21:36] on censorship. [2:21:38] We had the First Amendment. [2:21:39] But what is happening, [2:21:41] and this, I think, [2:21:41] was where you were going, [2:21:42] Mr. Bangert, [2:21:43] is when the organization [2:21:45] colludes with corporations, [2:21:48] colludes with banks, [2:21:49] and worse yet, [2:21:50] colludes with the government [2:21:52] to silence [2:21:53] and go after people [2:21:56] for political reasons [2:21:57] or other groups [2:21:57] for political reasons [2:21:58] like the Alliance [2:21:59] Defending Freedom [2:21:59] or the Family Research Council. [2:22:01] That's where the rub comes in. [2:22:02] Isn't that accurate? [2:22:04] Yes, Mr. Chairman. [2:22:04] It's entirely accurate. [2:22:06] I mean, [2:22:06] it's sort of like [2:22:06] the old Sesame Street skit [2:22:08] of one of these things [2:22:09] is not like the other. [2:22:10] On the one hand, [2:22:11] you have violent extremist groups. [2:22:13] On the other hand, [2:22:14] you have peaceful, [2:22:15] pro-family, [2:22:17] Christian, [2:22:17] conservative organizations. [2:22:19] And what the SPLC has done [2:22:20] over time [2:22:21] is it has expanded [2:22:23] this hate map [2:22:23] to include the latter. [2:22:25] Yeah. [2:22:25] And then what it's done [2:22:26] after that is [2:22:27] it's launched this organization [2:22:28] called Change the Terms, [2:22:30] gone to corporate America, [2:22:31] and embedded itself [2:22:32] in the decision-making architecture [2:22:34] of corporate America, [2:22:36] including key institutions [2:22:37] like financial firms, [2:22:39] technology firms, [2:22:42] online social media platforms, [2:22:43] and demanded [2:22:44] that they de-platform, [2:22:46] de-bank, [2:22:47] and deny services [2:22:48] to every single organization [2:22:51] on that hate map, [2:22:52] including the ones [2:22:53] that aren't like the other. [2:22:54] And again, [2:22:55] that's all bad. [2:22:56] We disagree with it. [2:22:56] Lumping y'all together [2:22:57] and going to these entities [2:22:58] and doing that. [2:22:59] But what's really wrong [2:23:01] is when they go to government [2:23:03] and get the government's [2:23:04] stamp of approval, [2:23:05] which is what I think happened. [2:23:06] This is why there was [2:23:07] this cozy relationship [2:23:08] between the Biden-Garland [2:23:09] Justice Department [2:23:10] and the Southern Poverty Law Center. [2:23:11] Do you agree with that? [2:23:12] That compounds the problem [2:23:14] exponentially. [2:23:15] Yeah. [2:23:15] Because when the government, [2:23:17] when the Justice Department [2:23:19] is making them out [2:23:19] to be the end-all, [2:23:20] be-all, [2:23:21] standard, [2:23:22] objective source out there, [2:23:24] bringing them into [2:23:24] quarterly meetings, [2:23:25] using their material, [2:23:26] helping them, [2:23:27] having them train [2:23:27] their prosecutors, [2:23:28] that's when we get [2:23:29] into the problem. [2:23:31] And so much so [2:23:32] that the FBI director [2:23:33] sat in the same seat [2:23:34] you're setting [2:23:34] and said, [2:23:35] that memorandum [2:23:36] written by the Richmond [2:23:36] Field Office [2:23:37] was wrong. [2:23:39] It was, [2:23:39] I was aghast. [2:23:40] I can't remember [2:23:41] all the terms he used. [2:23:42] That's where it leads [2:23:43] to an actual document [2:23:44] from the government [2:23:45] saying, [2:23:46] if you're a pro-life Catholic, [2:23:46] you're an extremist. [2:23:48] The government, [2:23:49] especially when it's engaging [2:23:50] in prosecution, [2:23:50] relies on evidence. [2:23:52] The hate map, [2:23:53] as courts have found, [2:23:54] is not evidence of anything. [2:23:56] In fact, [2:23:56] it's a sham [2:23:57] and a fraud. [2:23:58] Yeah. [2:23:59] So all that went on [2:24:00] and now we learn, [2:24:02] now we learn [2:24:03] that they had field sources, [2:24:06] that's what they called them, [2:24:07] that they were paying [2:24:07] $4 million [2:24:08] over a period of years [2:24:10] and these field sources [2:24:12] were engaged [2:24:12] in all kinds of ridiculous, [2:24:14] hateful, [2:24:14] racist things [2:24:15] all while telling [2:24:16] their donors, [2:24:18] we're doing the great stuff. [2:24:21] That's the story. [2:24:23] And that's why [2:24:23] the Justice Department [2:24:24] is investigating [2:24:25] and has indicted them. [2:24:27] Anything I get wrong [2:24:28] in that there, [2:24:28] Mr. Banger? [2:24:29] It is a tale [2:24:30] of hypocrisy. [2:24:31] Yeah. [2:24:32] Yeah. [2:24:32] I thank the gentlelady [2:24:33] for yielding. [2:24:34] I will give you back [2:24:34] 30 seconds. [2:24:35] God bless you [2:24:35] for yielding me [2:24:36] four minutes and 30. [2:24:39] Thank you, [2:24:39] Mr. Chairman, [2:24:39] and I think you just said it. [2:24:41] You know, [2:24:41] what we're seeing here [2:24:42] is an organization [2:24:43] that held itself out [2:24:44] to be doing good work [2:24:46] in the country, [2:24:46] and what we're hearing today [2:24:48] is that, [2:24:48] in fact, [2:24:49] it was colluding [2:24:50] to fund and support [2:24:52] and conspire with [2:24:54] some of the very organizations [2:24:55] it claims to want to defeat. [2:24:58] It is discouraging, [2:24:59] and it is so critical [2:25:01] that we have brought [2:25:02] transparency to this issue [2:25:03] here today. [2:25:04] Thank you, [2:25:04] Mr. Chairman. [2:25:05] I yield back. [2:25:05] Gentleman yields back. [2:25:06] Gentleman from California [2:25:07] is recognized. [2:25:08] Thank you, [2:25:09] Mr. Chair. [2:25:09] So on May 18th of this year, [2:25:12] two teenage gunmen [2:25:14] opened fire [2:25:14] on a mosque [2:25:16] in San Diego, California, [2:25:17] and they murdered [2:25:18] three people. [2:25:19] Then they turned [2:25:20] their weapons [2:25:20] on themselves [2:25:22] before law enforcement [2:25:23] could apprehend them. [2:25:25] These assailants, [2:25:26] they were teenagers. [2:25:28] They were children, [2:25:29] and children [2:25:30] are not born with hate. [2:25:33] They are taught hate. [2:25:35] President Fair, [2:25:35] is that a fair assessment? [2:25:42] Sorry. [2:25:43] Congresswoman, [2:25:44] it's our position [2:25:45] that hate is never peaceful [2:25:47] for its victims. [2:25:48] Right. [2:25:49] Ever. [2:25:50] And, you know, [2:25:50] these assailants, [2:25:51] they learned this hate [2:25:52] somewhere, [2:25:53] and they shared it, [2:25:54] actually, [2:25:55] in their very long, [2:25:56] detailed, [2:25:58] hate-filled manifesto [2:25:59] referencing a number [2:26:01] of extremist organizations [2:26:03] by name, [2:26:03] like the Terrogram Collective, [2:26:06] the Base, [2:26:07] and the Atomwaffen Division. [2:26:09] So, President Fair, [2:26:09] are you familiar [2:26:10] with some of these groups? [2:26:12] Yes. [2:26:13] The Atomwaffen Division [2:26:14] is one of the groups [2:26:15] that we shared [2:26:18] intelligence on [2:26:20] and was behind [2:26:22] the threatened massacre [2:26:24] in Las Vegas. [2:26:25] That's right. [2:26:25] It's a neo-Nazi [2:26:26] extremist group, [2:26:27] and in 2019, [2:26:29] SPLC actually gave information. [2:26:31] It was good enough [2:26:32] for law enforcement [2:26:33] that they were able [2:26:34] to thwart [2:26:35] a terrorist attack [2:26:37] that was planned [2:26:38] by one of the members [2:26:39] of this Atomwaffen Division. [2:26:41] And, in fact, [2:26:41] he said he was planning [2:26:43] a terrorist attack, [2:26:44] and he had explosives, [2:26:46] and he was targeting [2:26:47] a synagogue [2:26:48] and a bar [2:26:49] that was patronized [2:26:50] by the LGBT community. [2:26:53] So, by the way, [2:26:54] for everybody, [2:26:55] happy Pride Month, [2:26:56] and Miss King, [2:26:57] I say that in honor [2:26:58] of your uncle's [2:26:59] dear friend, [2:27:00] Bayard Rustin. [2:27:02] So, we are talking [2:27:03] about accelerationist [2:27:04] neo-Nazi networks [2:27:07] and two teenagers [2:27:08] in San Diego [2:27:09] who were inspired [2:27:10] by them. [2:27:11] And this is a hate-filled [2:27:13] pipeline getting [2:27:14] to our children. [2:27:16] It's a pathway [2:27:17] by which teenage boys [2:27:18] and young men [2:27:19] are drawn [2:27:20] from mainstream platforms [2:27:22] into these increasingly [2:27:23] radicalized spaces [2:27:25] where they are [2:27:26] encountering content [2:27:27] that glorifies hate, [2:27:29] violence, [2:27:30] and criminal activity. [2:27:32] And, to be fair, [2:27:32] what happened at that mosque [2:27:33] was a criminal act. [2:27:36] I think it's curious [2:27:37] that Republicans [2:27:38] haven't had [2:27:39] any of these groups [2:27:41] come before this committee [2:27:42] and prove that [2:27:43] they are not spreading hate. [2:27:46] Where are those hearings? [2:27:48] But maybe my Republican colleagues [2:27:50] are okay with having [2:27:52] neo-Nazi extremist groups [2:27:53] teaching your children [2:27:55] or their children. [2:27:57] But I'm not. [2:27:59] We've also heard today [2:28:00] that those with [2:28:01] traditional Christian beliefs [2:28:02] are being treated [2:28:03] as threats [2:28:04] and terrorists. [2:28:06] We've heard a lot today [2:28:07] about how the SPLC [2:28:08] is anti-Christian. [2:28:10] We're being told [2:28:10] that the organization [2:28:11] worked with the [2:28:12] Biden administration [2:28:13] to target traditional Catholics [2:28:15] for their political [2:28:16] and religious beliefs [2:28:17] and that the org [2:28:19] discriminates against anyone [2:28:20] with traditional [2:28:21] or Christian views. [2:28:22] I think those are lies. [2:28:24] So, speaking of lies [2:28:25] for the record, [2:28:26] President Fair, [2:28:27] do you maintain [2:28:27] a domestic terrorist list? [2:28:30] We do not. [2:28:30] Okay. [2:28:31] So, Dr. King, for example, [2:28:33] is not on [2:28:34] this non-existent list. [2:28:36] Is that true? [2:28:37] That is true. [2:28:37] I'm not sure [2:28:38] what list she's referring to. [2:28:39] Okay. [2:28:39] Is she on a hate map? [2:28:41] No. [2:28:41] Okay. [2:28:42] So, per usual, [2:28:44] the facts are being twisted [2:28:45] to attack the SPLC [2:28:47] and the work it does [2:28:48] across this country [2:28:49] to tackle hate groups [2:28:50] and violent extremists [2:28:52] because SPLC [2:28:54] actually dares [2:28:55] to dissent [2:28:56] against this administration [2:28:58] and therefore [2:28:59] you all have a target [2:29:00] on your back. [2:29:01] But don't take my word for it. [2:29:02] I have a video. [2:29:04] I've been hearing [2:29:05] that there are people [2:29:07] who think the SPLC [2:29:08] is anti-Christian [2:29:09] and I really don't know [2:29:11] what Bible they're reading [2:29:12] because my experience [2:29:15] of the SPLC [2:29:16] is that they help churches [2:29:17] feed hungry families. [2:29:19] They help struggling communities. [2:29:22] They informed me personally [2:29:23] about need in our state, [2:29:26] about a decrease [2:29:27] of SNAP benefits, [2:29:29] about hospital shortages. [2:29:32] And the work that we do [2:29:33] in our community [2:29:34] and without SPLC [2:29:35] and the knowledge [2:29:37] that they bring, [2:29:38] it would limit us [2:29:40] to be able to serve [2:29:41] and understand [2:29:41] what our community needs are. [2:29:43] And certainly the values [2:29:44] of SPLC [2:29:45] in these more than [2:29:47] four or five decades [2:29:48] exemplify the values [2:29:50] of the gospel, [2:29:51] inclusion, solidarity, [2:29:53] concern for the least among us, [2:29:55] and a zeal for justice. [2:29:57] So I fully support [2:30:00] and want the SPLC [2:30:02] to be known [2:30:03] for who they are [2:30:04] and in real time [2:30:06] in real life [2:30:07] because of what they do [2:30:08] for others. [2:30:11] Thank you and I yield back. [2:30:12] General Lee yields back, [2:30:13] gentlemen from Alabama's recognition. [2:30:17] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [2:30:18] Thank you to the witnesses [2:30:19] for being here today, [2:30:20] Ms. King. [2:30:21] Great to see you again. [2:30:22] I think you've done more [2:30:23] to unite, I know in my region [2:30:26] of the country, people [2:30:28] than to divide them. [2:30:29] And you've done it [2:30:30] with a much smaller budget [2:30:31] than some of the people [2:30:32] you battle against. [2:30:33] So thank you [2:30:33] for your kind work. [2:30:34] You've always got [2:30:35] a wonderful heart [2:30:36] and an amazing testimony. [2:30:38] And your family's been [2:30:38] a blessing to Alabama [2:30:39] and you've been [2:30:40] a blessing to our family. [2:30:41] So thank you for being here. [2:30:43] The Southern Poverty Law Center [2:30:44] is headquartered [2:30:45] in Montgomery, Alabama, [2:30:47] one of the most important cities [2:30:48] in the history [2:30:48] of the civil rights movement. [2:30:50] But Montgomery [2:30:51] is not a shield. [2:30:52] The civil rights movement [2:30:53] is not a fundraising costume. [2:30:55] And Alabama donors [2:30:56] are not an ATM. [2:30:58] That history belongs [2:30:59] to the men and women [2:31:00] who marched, [2:31:02] who prayed, [2:31:03] who suffered, [2:31:05] and changed this country. [2:31:07] Alabama Attorney General [2:31:08] Steve Marshall [2:31:09] has opened a civil investigation [2:31:11] into the Southern Poverty Law Center [2:31:13] under the Alabama [2:31:14] Consumer Protection Act. [2:31:16] The subpoena asked [2:31:17] a straightforward question. [2:31:19] When Alabama donors [2:31:20] gave money to fight hate, [2:31:23] were they told the truth [2:31:24] about where that money could go? [2:31:26] Southern Poverty Law Center [2:31:27] has spent years [2:31:28] putting labels on other people. [2:31:30] It has even used hate watch [2:31:32] to target me. [2:31:32] As a matter of fact, [2:31:33] I think the reason [2:31:34] I'm on the list, [2:31:35] and there's 11 congressmen [2:31:37] on this list, [2:31:37] is because we simply [2:31:38] put a flag in front [2:31:39] of our office [2:31:40] that encouraged the people [2:31:41] to pray for this nation. [2:31:42] It's called [2:31:43] the Appeal to Heaven flag. [2:31:44] Somehow or another, [2:31:45] I became a hateful person [2:31:47] and I was put on [2:31:47] a hate watch list [2:31:48] simply because [2:31:49] I put a flag up [2:31:50] that encouraged, [2:31:51] one of the founding flags [2:31:52] of this nation [2:31:53] to encourage our country [2:31:55] to pray for our leaders. [2:31:56] And then those leaders [2:31:57] are put on a hate list [2:31:58] and it's published. [2:31:59] So my name's on a list [2:32:00] along with 10 others [2:32:02] courtesy of [2:32:03] some hate watch group. [2:32:04] I don't know, [2:32:05] Dr. King, [2:32:06] if we're on the same list, [2:32:07] but I'm honored [2:32:07] to be on a list with you [2:32:08] any time of the day, [2:32:09] any week, [2:32:10] any month [2:32:10] that we're in a fight [2:32:11] together for this country. [2:32:12] So I encourage you [2:32:13] to tell your people [2:32:14] to keep on praying [2:32:15] and we'll keep [2:32:15] flying our flag. [2:32:16] How about that? [2:32:18] So question, [2:32:18] Mr. Fair. [2:32:20] Southern Poverty Law Center, [2:32:21] as we know, [2:32:21] is headquartered [2:32:22] in Montgomery, Alabama. [2:32:23] Is that correct? [2:32:24] Yes, it is. [2:32:26] I don't know [2:32:26] if your mic's on. [2:32:27] Yes, it is. [2:32:29] Are you here today [2:32:30] as the interim president [2:32:31] and CEO [2:32:32] of Southern Poverty Law Center? [2:32:33] Yes, I am. [2:32:35] Took over when? [2:32:37] I'm sorry? [2:32:37] When did you take that job? [2:32:40] In July. [2:32:41] Any idea why? [2:32:45] Because I've supported [2:32:47] the SPLC [2:32:48] and its mission [2:32:49] for my entire life. [2:32:52] You don't think [2:32:53] it had anything to do [2:32:53] with the investigation [2:32:54] that's going on? [2:32:55] I'm sorry? [2:32:56] You think maybe [2:32:57] because of the investigation [2:32:57] you were removed [2:32:58] as interim CEO? [2:32:59] That I was removed? [2:33:04] I know you were [2:33:05] you were actually installed. [2:33:07] No, no. [2:33:08] I joined as interim CEO [2:33:10] because there was a vacancy [2:33:12] and the board asked [2:33:13] if I would be willing [2:33:14] to step in. [2:33:15] Fair enough. [2:33:15] And I said yes. [2:33:16] Okay, so you received [2:33:17] actually a subpoena [2:33:18] from the Attorney General [2:33:19] Steve Marshall. [2:33:20] You're aware of that, correct? [2:33:22] Yes. [2:33:23] Okay. [2:33:24] Have you provided [2:33:25] the documents [2:33:26] that the Attorney General [2:33:27] has requested? [2:33:29] SPLC's counsel [2:33:30] will reply to the subpoena. [2:33:33] So you haven't as of yet? [2:33:34] I have not. [2:33:37] SPLC's counsel [2:33:38] will reply to that subpoena. [2:33:41] What do you think [2:33:42] the SPLC is withholding [2:33:43] from the Attorney General? [2:33:45] It seems like [2:33:45] they're slow walking [2:33:46] the information. [2:33:47] At least that's [2:33:47] what I've been told. [2:33:51] SPLC's counsel [2:33:52] will reply to the subpoena. [2:33:55] Congressman Moore. [2:33:58] Did the SPLC tell [2:34:00] Alabama donors [2:34:01] that donated funds [2:34:02] could be used [2:34:02] to pay informants [2:34:03] tied to groups [2:34:04] like the Ku Klux Klan, [2:34:05] Aryan Nations, [2:34:07] or the National Socialist Movement? [2:34:10] Congressman Moore, [2:34:11] all the allegations [2:34:12] in the indictment [2:34:12] will be addressed [2:34:14] in the Middle District [2:34:16] of Alabama [2:34:16] in the criminal case [2:34:17] pending against the SPLC. [2:34:21] Okay. [2:34:21] Did the SPLC donation page [2:34:23] tell Alabama donors [2:34:24] that their money [2:34:25] could be paid directly [2:34:26] or indirectly [2:34:27] to sources [2:34:27] inside extremist groups? [2:34:29] Did y'all notify [2:34:29] your donors of that? [2:34:31] Same response, [2:34:32] Congressman Moore. [2:34:34] Did the SPLC's [2:34:35] fundraiser emails [2:34:36] to Alabama donors [2:34:37] use the word informant? [2:34:43] Congressman Moore, [2:34:44] as I said, [2:34:45] counsel will address [2:34:46] all the allegations. [2:34:48] We believe our donors [2:34:50] support all of our programs [2:34:51] and all the work [2:34:52] that we do. [2:34:54] In closing, [2:34:54] the SPLC has spent years [2:34:56] accusing other Americans [2:34:57] of hate. [2:34:58] Accountability has come [2:34:59] home to Montgomery. [2:35:01] The issue is transparency. [2:35:02] The issue is donor honesty. [2:35:05] The issue is whether [2:35:06] an Alabama-based organization [2:35:08] can raise money [2:35:08] off accusations of hate [2:35:10] while refusing to answer [2:35:11] basic questions [2:35:12] about where that money went. [2:35:14] Southern Poverty Law Center [2:35:15] does not get to use Alabama [2:35:17] as its headquarters [2:35:18] as a brand. [2:35:19] We deserve better. [2:35:21] The civil rights movement [2:35:22] is not a fundraising costume [2:35:23] and Alabama donors [2:35:25] are not an ATM. [2:35:26] With that, [2:35:27] Mr. Chairman, [2:35:27] I'll yield back. [2:35:28] The gentleman yields back. [2:35:30] The chair now recognizes [2:35:30] the gentleman from Illinois. [2:35:35] Gentleman from Illinois. [2:35:38] Thank you, [2:35:39] Mr. Chairman. [2:35:41] It's astonishing [2:35:42] to see Republicans [2:35:45] choose to humiliate themselves [2:35:48] for a third time [2:35:49] with this hearing, [2:35:51] which is more [2:35:52] of an indictment [2:35:53] of them [2:35:54] than anyone else. [2:35:56] Everyone knows [2:35:57] that the SPLC indictment [2:35:58] is a joke, [2:35:59] a bad one at that. [2:36:01] Everyone knows [2:36:02] that the legal arguments [2:36:03] are nonsense, [2:36:04] and everyone knows [2:36:05] that Todd Blanche's [2:36:06] corrupt henchmen [2:36:07] ordered the U.S. attorney [2:36:10] to do this pathetic [2:36:12] hack job [2:36:13] even though [2:36:14] it'll never hold up [2:36:15] in court. [2:36:16] So why are Republicans [2:36:17] putting us through [2:36:18] this absurd, [2:36:20] gaslighting Olympics [2:36:21] for a third time [2:36:22] because their assault [2:36:23] on the SPLC [2:36:24] is a crucial part [2:36:26] of the assault [2:36:27] on democracy itself. [2:36:29] The Republican Party [2:36:30] used to be [2:36:31] the party of Lincoln [2:36:33] from Illinois. [2:36:35] That's where I'm from. [2:36:37] Today, [2:36:38] it's nothing more [2:36:38] than a debt cult [2:36:39] and a political front [2:36:41] for the white supremacist [2:36:42] movement, [2:36:43] tragically. [2:36:45] That's as old [2:36:46] as our country itself. [2:36:48] As my Democratic colleagues [2:36:49] have pointed out, [2:36:50] there's a reason [2:36:51] why Republicans [2:36:52] are targeting [2:36:53] the SPLC. [2:36:55] No organization [2:36:56] has been more effective [2:36:57] in dismantling [2:36:58] the Klan [2:36:59] and other white [2:37:00] nationalist groups, [2:37:02] including [2:37:02] through the use [2:37:04] of informants. [2:37:06] This is a non-profit [2:37:07] organization. [2:37:09] It has a board [2:37:10] of directors. [2:37:11] They govern [2:37:12] organizations [2:37:13] in places [2:37:13] you don't know. [2:37:15] So the Republican Party [2:37:16] protects these groups [2:37:17] because they have [2:37:19] the same goals. [2:37:20] Erase Reconstruction. [2:37:23] Erase the Civil Rights [2:37:24] movement, [2:37:25] destroy [2:37:26] multiracial [2:37:27] democracy, [2:37:29] and restore [2:37:29] Jim Crow [2:37:30] in America. [2:37:32] That's what this [2:37:33] is all about. [2:37:34] And it's right [2:37:35] in front of us. [2:37:37] They tried to [2:37:38] violently overthrow [2:37:39] an election, [2:37:41] then got pardons [2:37:42] from their ringleader, [2:37:45] President Trump. [2:37:46] They tried to [2:37:47] embezzle billions [2:37:48] of tax dollars [2:37:49] to create [2:37:51] a white nationalist [2:37:53] slush fund [2:37:54] at DOJ. [2:37:55] But it ran [2:37:57] into problems, [2:37:58] didn't it? [2:37:59] They divert [2:37:59] law enforcement [2:38:00] resources from [2:38:01] combating white [2:38:02] nationalism to [2:38:04] low-level [2:38:05] immigration enforcement. [2:38:07] They accused [2:38:08] the SPLC [2:38:09] of being [2:38:10] anti-Christian [2:38:11] for opposing [2:38:13] anti-abortion, [2:38:14] anti-LGBT [2:38:15] bigotry, [2:38:16] even though [2:38:17] Christian leaders, [2:38:18] as we saw [2:38:19] in the prior video, [2:38:21] nationwide, [2:38:22] support the SPLC [2:38:24] overwhelmingly. [2:38:26] Their morality [2:38:27] bankrupt, [2:38:30] their morally [2:38:31] bankrupt [2:38:32] co-conspirators [2:38:34] on the Supreme [2:38:35] Court [2:38:35] and in state [2:38:36] legislatures [2:38:37] are dismantling [2:38:39] reconstruction [2:38:40] amendments [2:38:41] and rigging [2:38:42] elections [2:38:43] to strip [2:38:44] black and brown [2:38:45] people [2:38:46] of political [2:38:47] representation. [2:38:49] Let's be clear. [2:38:50] The president [2:38:52] and his enablers [2:38:53] are carrying out [2:38:54] the vision [2:38:55] of the Klan, [2:38:56] the Proud Boys, [2:38:57] the Oat Keepers [2:38:58] and every other [2:38:59] hate group [2:39:00] because they exist [2:39:02] and they act. [2:39:06] They are courageous [2:39:08] patriots [2:39:09] and they have [2:39:11] fought for decades. [2:39:13] It's the same [2:39:14] old playbook [2:39:15] on DEI [2:39:16] and mass incarceration [2:39:17] and the Voting Rights Act [2:39:19] and immigration enforcement. [2:39:21] The racial profiling, [2:39:23] the mass detentions, [2:39:24] the stripping [2:39:25] of due process, [2:39:26] the undermining [2:39:27] of birthright citizenship, [2:39:28] everything that's happening [2:39:30] in communities [2:39:32] like mine, [2:39:34] it's all the same playbook [2:39:35] and it's rooted [2:39:37] in the same conspiracy theory, [2:39:40] the Great Replacement Theory. [2:39:45] Mr. Fair, [2:39:46] thank you for being here today [2:39:47] and for all that SPLC does. [2:39:50] Would you agree [2:39:51] that this administration's [2:39:52] anti-immigrant agenda [2:39:53] is part of the broader support [2:39:55] of white nationalist movement [2:39:57] and how does [2:39:59] the Great Replacement Theory [2:40:00] underpin that movement? [2:40:04] Yes, Congressman Garcia. [2:40:06] The Great Replacement Theory [2:40:08] suggests that whites [2:40:11] in this country [2:40:11] are being replaced [2:40:13] by immigrants [2:40:14] and many of the groups [2:40:17] that we identify [2:40:18] as hate groups [2:40:19] target immigrants, [2:40:21] label them as criminals, [2:40:23] as rapists, [2:40:24] in the words [2:40:25] of this administration [2:40:26] and otherwise. [2:40:28] There are [2:40:30] any number of groups [2:40:32] that express [2:40:34] white supremacist views [2:40:36] that this country [2:40:36] should be [2:40:38] a majority white nation. [2:40:40] Those views [2:40:41] are antithetical [2:40:42] to the views [2:40:42] of the SPLC. [2:40:43] Thank you for sharing that. [2:40:45] I yield back. [2:40:45] Gentleman yields back. [2:40:46] Gentleman's back. [2:40:46] Gentleman for California [2:40:47] is recognized [2:40:47] for unanimous consent. [2:40:48] Thank you, Mr. Chair. [2:40:49] I forgot. [2:40:50] I have some UC. [2:40:52] Okay, Gentleman, [2:40:52] or Gentleman Lady [2:40:53] can proceed. [2:40:53] San Diego Mosque [2:40:55] shooters left document [2:40:57] revealing racist [2:40:58] neo-Nazi bodies. [2:40:59] Without objection. [2:41:00] Vance praises YouTuber [2:41:02] Nick Shirley [2:41:03] reporting on Minnesota fraud. [2:41:05] Without objection. [2:41:06] Undocumented immigrant [2:41:07] offending rate [2:41:08] lower than U.S. [2:41:10] born citizen rate. [2:41:12] Without objection. [2:41:13] Yeah, okay. [2:41:14] Anti-Muslim bigotry [2:41:15] surges ahead [2:41:16] of International Day [2:41:18] to combat Islamophobia. [2:41:20] The annual report [2:41:21] 2025 [2:41:22] the Council on, [2:41:26] I'm sorry, [2:41:27] American Islamic Relations [2:41:28] 2025 annual report. [2:41:30] Without objection. [2:41:31] Anti-Islamic rhetoric [2:41:32] from GOP politicians [2:41:34] sparks concern [2:41:35] over religious hatred. [2:41:37] Objection. [2:41:38] The SPLC's [2:41:39] Year in Hate [2:41:40] and Extremism 2024. [2:41:43] Objection. [2:41:43] And once again, [2:41:44] the SPLC's [2:41:45] hate map [2:41:46] to establish clearly [2:41:47] for the record [2:41:48] who is [2:41:49] and who is not [2:41:50] on it. [2:41:51] Without objection. [2:41:52] I want to thank you all [2:41:53] for your patience. [2:41:54] We have about [2:41:54] a half an hour [2:41:55] based on the number [2:41:56] of members [2:41:57] yet to testify [2:41:57] so we'll move [2:41:58] to that as quick [2:41:58] as we can. [2:41:59] And the general lady [2:42:00] from Wyoming [2:42:00] is recognized. [2:42:01] Thank you. [2:42:01] For any business [2:42:02] to remain profitable [2:42:03] there must be [2:42:04] both supply and demand. [2:42:05] As for the [2:42:06] Southern Poverty Law Center's [2:42:08] business model, [2:42:09] it needs to convince people [2:42:10] that there exists [2:42:11] certain types [2:42:11] of discrimination [2:42:12] and hatred [2:42:13] in the United States [2:42:14] and that it alone [2:42:15] has the expertise [2:42:16] to identify, [2:42:18] target, [2:42:18] and eradicate it. [2:42:19] A lack of such [2:42:20] discrimination [2:42:21] and hatred [2:42:22] would render [2:42:22] the SPLC's [2:42:23] existence obsolete. [2:42:26] And that is largely [2:42:27] what has happened [2:42:27] in America. [2:42:28] So what is a business [2:42:29] to do when its very [2:42:30] existence is threatened [2:42:31] by a dramatic [2:42:32] decrease in the scourge [2:42:34] that it exists [2:42:35] to combat? [2:42:36] What happens [2:42:36] when racism, [2:42:37] for example, [2:42:38] is largely a thing [2:42:39] of the past? [2:42:40] The Brain Trust [2:42:41] at SPLC [2:42:42] came up with [2:42:42] their own unique [2:42:43] solution to this [2:42:44] conundrum. [2:42:45] They decided [2:42:45] to fund the very [2:42:46] hatred that they [2:42:47] claim to be [2:42:47] fighting against. [2:42:48] And like magic, [2:42:50] the money has [2:42:51] continued to roll in. [2:42:53] In fact, [2:42:54] advancing hatred [2:42:54] has become quite [2:42:55] profitable for the [2:42:57] SPLC, [2:42:58] as in 2024, [2:42:59] the organization [2:43:00] had over $829 million [2:43:02] in assets, [2:43:04] an endowment [2:43:04] of approximately [2:43:05] $738 million [2:43:06] and $129 million [2:43:08] in revenue. [2:43:10] The bulk [2:43:10] of this money [2:43:11] comes from [2:43:11] the contributions [2:43:12] of the SPLC's [2:43:13] donors, [2:43:14] contributions [2:43:14] that the donors [2:43:15] thought were made [2:43:16] to, quote, [2:43:17] confront hate, [2:43:18] stand up to [2:43:19] injustice, [2:43:20] and defend our [2:43:21] civil and human [2:43:21] rights, [2:43:22] end quote. [2:43:23] But that isn't [2:43:24] the case at all. [2:43:25] Instead of confronting [2:43:26] hate, [2:43:27] standing up for justice, [2:43:28] or defending [2:43:29] civil and human [2:43:29] rights, [2:43:30] the SPLC has been [2:43:31] funding the exact [2:43:32] opposite, [2:43:33] with the added [2:43:34] bonus of then [2:43:34] using their [2:43:35] donations to target [2:43:36] right-leaning [2:43:37] organizations such [2:43:39] as the Family [2:43:39] Research Council [2:43:40] and Turning Point [2:43:42] USA, [2:43:43] simply because they [2:43:44] believe in [2:43:45] traditional marriage [2:43:45] and the sanctity [2:43:46] of the family [2:43:47] unit while also [2:43:48] opposing abortion. [2:43:50] Stated another way, [2:43:51] SPLC has been [2:43:52] using its funds [2:43:53] to attack those [2:43:54] very organizations [2:43:55] that actually [2:43:56] do confront hate, [2:43:58] stand for justice, [2:43:59] and defend civil [2:44:00] and human rights. [2:44:01] And the SPLC [2:44:02] funded actual Nazis [2:44:04] and white supremacists [2:44:05] in order to do so. [2:44:08] In order to get [2:44:08] away with this scam, [2:44:09] the SPLC knew [2:44:10] that it had to hide [2:44:11] what it was doing. [2:44:12] I mean, [2:44:13] who was going [2:44:13] to donate to [2:44:14] an organization [2:44:15] that has actual [2:44:16] Nazis on the [2:44:18] payroll to organize [2:44:19] astroturf rallies [2:44:20] to try to smear [2:44:21] conservatives? [2:44:23] The DOJ's [2:44:24] superseding indictment [2:44:25] filed on June 2nd [2:44:26] approximates that [2:44:27] between 2010 [2:44:28] and 2023, [2:44:30] the SPLC [2:44:31] fumbled $4.1 million [2:44:33] in tax-exempt [2:44:33] donor funds [2:44:34] to various violent [2:44:35] extremist organizations, [2:44:37] including the [2:44:38] Aryan Nations, [2:44:39] the National Socialist [2:44:40] Movement, [2:44:41] and the KKK [2:44:42] via a series [2:44:44] of fictitious [2:44:45] accounts, [2:44:45] and then committed [2:44:46] bank fraud [2:44:47] to cover it all up. [2:44:49] The indictment [2:44:50] goes on to say [2:44:50] that these donor funds [2:44:51] were ultimately used [2:44:52] for the growth [2:44:53] and recruitment [2:44:54] of these organizations. [2:44:55] The purchase [2:44:56] of materials [2:44:56] for cross-burnings, [2:44:57] that's despicable. [2:45:00] And group attire [2:45:00] and the production [2:45:01] of racist paraphernalia [2:45:02] sold at rallies. [2:45:03] That's really despicable. [2:45:05] That's gross. [2:45:07] Mr. Fair, [2:45:07] does the SPLC [2:45:08] have any written policies [2:45:10] to ensure that the payments [2:45:11] you made to these organizations [2:45:13] were not used [2:45:14] to incite violence [2:45:15] or engage in other activities [2:45:16] that contradicts [2:45:17] SPLC's public representations? [2:45:22] Congresswoman Hageman, [2:45:24] as I said earlier, [2:45:26] all of the allegations [2:45:27] that you've... [2:45:29] You have written policies [2:45:30] to make sure [2:45:31] that you're not funding [2:45:32] the KKK. [2:45:33] We don't fund the KKK. [2:45:34] Well, you do. [2:45:35] Actually, [2:45:35] that's what's in the... [2:45:36] That's an allegation, [2:45:38] Congresswoman. [2:45:38] Have you produced [2:45:39] any of these materials to us? [2:45:39] We will discuss [2:45:40] all of those allegations. [2:45:41] Have you produced [2:45:42] those materials [2:45:42] to this committee? [2:45:43] What materials? [2:45:45] Any materials, [2:45:46] any written materials [2:45:47] so that you are not... [2:45:48] To show that you have [2:45:48] a policy in place [2:45:49] to not fund hate groups [2:45:51] such as the KKK. [2:45:53] SPLC's council [2:45:54] is working with [2:45:55] this committee's council [2:45:56] to respond to your... [2:45:58] Did anyone at the SPLC [2:46:00] ever raise any concerns [2:46:01] about your practice [2:46:02] of funding hate groups? [2:46:04] We don't fund hate groups. [2:46:06] Why wasn't the SPLC... [2:46:07] Now, you're under oath. [2:46:08] Remember that. [2:46:09] You are under oath here today. [2:46:10] I said we don't fund hate groups. [2:46:12] Okay. [2:46:12] Except the $4.1 million [2:46:14] that you gave [2:46:15] to the KKK, [2:46:16] the National Socialist Movement, [2:46:18] and the Aryan Nations. [2:46:19] Congresswoman Hageman, [2:46:21] those are allegations [2:46:21] that will be addressed... [2:46:23] You're on the oath. [2:46:24] ...that will be addressed... [2:46:25] All right. [2:46:25] ...in the criminal case [2:46:27] pending against the SPLC. [2:46:28] The SPLC also played a part [2:46:30] in funding the 2017 [2:46:32] Unite the Right rally [2:46:33] in Charlottesville, [2:46:34] and you paid an organizer [2:46:36] who drafted racist votes [2:46:37] under the SPLC's supervision. [2:46:40] You fomented the hate, [2:46:41] and then you made bank [2:46:42] off of it. [2:46:43] About $80 million [2:46:44] in the following months [2:46:45] after that rally. [2:46:47] But you didn't just make [2:46:48] a ton of money that day. [2:46:49] Three people actually died. [2:46:50] Two police officers [2:46:51] and a woman named [2:46:52] Heather Danielle Heyer. [2:46:54] So from the standpoint [2:46:55] of your business model, [2:46:56] making money off of hatred, [2:46:58] you must say that [2:46:59] that was actually [2:47:00] a very successful day [2:47:01] for the SPLC. [2:47:02] Would you agree with that? [2:47:04] SPLC doesn't foment hate. [2:47:06] Well, that day you did. [2:47:08] I guess that I'm out of time. [2:47:10] With that, I yield back. [2:47:11] Gentlelady yields back. [2:47:12] Gentlelady from Georgia [2:47:12] is recognized. [2:47:13] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [2:47:14] And thank you [2:47:15] to each of our witnesses. [2:47:16] I have read [2:47:18] all of your testimonies. [2:47:19] And most Americans [2:47:20] now believe that [2:47:20] political violence [2:47:21] will increase [2:47:22] in the next few years. [2:47:24] With the attempted kidnapping [2:47:25] of Gretchen Whitmer, [2:47:27] the anti-Semitic firebombing [2:47:29] of Josh Shapiro's home, [2:47:31] and the recent attempted [2:47:32] assassination of Donald Trump, [2:47:34] there's no doubt [2:47:34] that extremism is on the rise. [2:47:38] Just a simple answer. [2:47:40] Does everyone agree [2:47:41] that this is a serious concern [2:47:42] for our democracy? [2:47:43] Ms. McCord? [2:47:44] Yes. [2:47:45] Mr. Bandert? [2:47:47] Yes, political violence [2:47:48] is always a serious concern. [2:47:49] Dr. King? [2:47:52] Yes or no? [2:47:53] Just yes or no? [2:47:54] All political violence [2:47:56] is of great concern. [2:47:58] Mr. Fair? [2:47:58] Yes, Congresswoman McBaffin. [2:48:00] Thank you. [2:48:01] Last year, [2:48:01] someone tried to firebomb [2:48:03] a Republican Party headquarters [2:48:04] in Arizona [2:48:05] and someone else [2:48:06] fired gunshots [2:48:07] at a Democratic Party office [2:48:08] building in New Mexico. [2:48:10] There have been politically [2:48:11] and racially motivated [2:48:13] mass shootings [2:48:14] in Charleston, [2:48:15] El Paso, [2:48:15] and beyond. [2:48:17] Yes or no for each of you, [2:48:18] do you think [2:48:19] it should be a priority [2:48:20] of the Department of Justice [2:48:21] and the FBI [2:48:22] to combat extremism [2:48:24] and political violence? [2:48:27] Yes, [2:48:27] regardless of the ideology. [2:48:29] Thank you. [2:48:31] Yes, [2:48:31] Congressman, [2:48:31] I believe the Department [2:48:32] should be pursuing [2:48:33] criminal acts [2:48:34] of political violence. [2:48:35] Thank you. [2:48:37] Yes. [2:48:39] Thank you. [2:48:39] Yes, Congressman. [2:48:40] Thank you. [2:48:41] Our priorities [2:48:41] should be eliminating [2:48:42] and deterring violence, [2:48:44] a view that is not shared [2:48:45] by the Trump administration. [2:48:47] Last March, [2:48:48] the Department of Homeland Security [2:48:50] defunded the database [2:48:51] at the University of Maryland [2:48:52] that tracked [2:48:53] domestic terrorism, [2:48:55] hate crimes, [2:48:56] and targeted violence, [2:48:57] the only publicly available [2:48:59] database of its kind [2:49:00] in this country. [2:49:02] Shut down [2:49:02] at the very moment [2:49:03] that its data [2:49:04] showed a 25% increase [2:49:06] in terrorism [2:49:07] and targeted violence [2:49:08] over the prior year. [2:49:10] By summer 2025, [2:49:12] the administration [2:49:12] went on to dismantle [2:49:13] DHS's Center [2:49:14] for Prevention Programs [2:49:16] and Partnerships, [2:49:17] the primary federal unit [2:49:18] for proactively [2:49:19] stopping extremist violence, [2:49:21] credited with disrupting [2:49:23] over 1,000 violent plots. [2:49:25] Last fall, [2:49:27] the Justice Department [2:49:28] quietly removed [2:49:29] from its website [2:49:30] a study showing [2:49:31] far-right extremists [2:49:32] were responsible [2:49:33] for the bulk [2:49:34] of ideologically motivated [2:49:36] deaths of fact [2:49:37] that has been shown [2:49:38] numerous times [2:49:39] in multiple studies. [2:49:41] Professor McCord, [2:49:42] why is the Trump administration [2:49:44] shutting down these tools [2:49:45] and burying studies [2:49:47] on violence [2:49:48] at a moment [2:49:48] when extremism [2:49:50] is on the rise? [2:49:53] Well, I can't get [2:49:54] into the heads [2:49:55] of every person [2:49:55] in this administration, [2:49:56] but it is certainly [2:49:57] consistent with [2:49:58] their mass deportation plans [2:50:00] and the vilifying [2:50:03] of people of color [2:50:04] and immigrants [2:50:05] into the United States. [2:50:07] Thank you. [2:50:08] Americans expect [2:50:09] their government [2:50:10] to keep them safe, [2:50:12] yet the administration [2:50:13] seems determined [2:50:14] to do so only [2:50:15] when it fits [2:50:16] their ideological narrative. [2:50:19] There's no better example [2:50:20] than the reckless pardon [2:50:21] of the January 6 rioters, [2:50:23] nearly 100 of whom [2:50:25] have re-offended [2:50:26] since the attack. [2:50:28] One was arrested [2:50:30] after threatening [2:50:30] a person with a gun [2:50:31] in a church parking lot. [2:50:34] Another plotted [2:50:34] to assassinate FBI agents [2:50:36] and yet another one [2:50:37] in a plot [2:50:38] to assassinate [2:50:39] an elected official, [2:50:40] Dr. King. [2:50:41] In a letter [2:50:42] from a Birmingham jail, [2:50:44] your uncle writes [2:50:45] to fellow clergymen [2:50:46] about the dangers [2:50:47] of turning a blind eye [2:50:48] to those who do wrong [2:50:50] to your neighbors. [2:50:52] How do you reconcile [2:50:53] that with the presidential [2:50:54] pardons of 1,200 [2:50:55] violent extremists? [2:50:57] May I answer [2:51:00] in this manner? [2:51:02] Manufactured hate, [2:51:04] socially engineered racism, [2:51:06] because we are one blood [2:51:07] and we are one human race, [2:51:10] all of this is generating [2:51:11] unwarranted fear and chaos. [2:51:15] George Wallace, [2:51:15] who was mentioned earlier, [2:51:17] was one of the most racist [2:51:19] people on the planet [2:51:20] and he repented, [2:51:21] he admitted [2:51:22] that he had been racist, [2:51:24] he regretted it [2:51:25] and much healing [2:51:26] came forth. [2:51:27] And I understand [2:51:28] that, Dr. King, [2:51:29] but I'm asking you [2:51:30] a question is [2:51:31] how do you reconcile [2:51:33] with the 400 parties [2:51:35] that have been 25-year-old [2:51:36] president? [2:51:37] Time belongs, [2:51:37] Dr. King, [2:51:38] time belongs to that lady. [2:51:39] To admit, [2:51:39] I'm answering you. [2:51:41] And so, [2:51:42] in a letter [2:51:42] from the Birmingham jail, [2:51:43] injustice anywhere [2:51:44] is a threat [2:51:45] to justice everywhere. [2:51:46] Okay, thank you for that. [2:51:47] Everything you just mentioned [2:51:48] was terrible, [2:51:48] but what? [2:51:48] What about the guard [2:51:49] that was shot [2:51:50] right out at [2:51:51] Inter-Emily Research Council? [2:51:54] I'm trying to answer. [2:51:55] Thank you. [2:51:56] You know, [2:51:56] injustice, [2:51:57] violence is wrong. [2:51:59] I reclaim my time. [2:52:00] I'm reclaiming my time. [2:52:01] I'm a loss to Jenner. [2:52:01] Violence, [2:52:02] all violence is wrong. [2:52:03] Professor McCord, [2:52:04] could you restore her time [2:52:05] just for 25 seconds? [2:52:05] We've been very generous [2:52:07] with the time. [2:52:07] We'll give her [2:52:07] a few seconds more. [2:52:09] Professor McCord, [2:52:10] does issuing blanket pardons [2:52:12] to violent extremists [2:52:13] who assaulted police officers [2:52:15] help address this problem [2:52:16] of rising extremism [2:52:17] in America? [2:52:18] No, [2:52:19] it condones extremism [2:52:21] by one side [2:52:22] of the ideological spectrum. [2:52:24] Okay, thank you. [2:52:25] We still need organizations [2:52:26] like the Southern Poverty Law Center. [2:52:28] Just ask the committees [2:52:29] in San Diego, [2:52:30] Buffalo, [2:52:31] and Jacksonville. [2:52:32] You can ask me, [2:52:33] a mother who lost her son [2:52:34] to gun violence [2:52:35] because a man [2:52:36] made assumptions [2:52:37] about him [2:52:38] based on the color [2:52:39] of his skin. [2:52:40] Hate-driven violence [2:52:42] and policy still exists [2:52:44] and we should dare [2:52:45] to be bold [2:52:46] as Dr. King was [2:52:48] to fight against it [2:52:49] and I yield. [2:52:50] Time to jail, ladies. [2:52:51] Ms. Chairman, [2:52:51] could I do a UC? [2:52:52] We'll go with Ms. Hagem, [2:52:54] then I'll come to you. [2:52:55] I have a UC request. [2:52:57] An article from Life Set, [2:52:58] the both sides [2:52:59] political violence narrative [2:53:00] completely debunked, [2:53:02] they cooked the books [2:53:03] as typical. [2:53:04] Another one, [2:53:05] a letter from [2:53:06] Andrew Klovet [2:53:07] to Chairman Jordan [2:53:08] and the committee [2:53:09] about SPLC [2:53:12] putting the Turning Point USA [2:53:13] on its fraudulent hate map [2:53:17] in the spring of 2025 [2:53:18] and a September 1, 2020 [2:53:20] letter from the Coalition [2:53:22] for Jewish Values [2:53:23] related to the SPLC hate map [2:53:27] and what it does [2:53:27] to the Jewish community [2:53:28] and the risk [2:53:29] that it places [2:53:30] the Jewish community in. [2:53:31] The gentleman from Maryland. [2:53:32] Yes, just two, [2:53:33] Mr. Chairman. [2:53:34] The 2017 Trump administration [2:53:37] FBI document [2:53:39] listing the SPLC [2:53:40] as its partner [2:53:41] in fighting hate. [2:53:42] Bob Jackson. [2:53:43] And then, [2:53:44] this is from [2:53:45] National Public Radio, [2:53:47] author details [2:53:48] the spy network [2:53:49] that took on [2:53:50] America's post-World War II [2:53:52] Nazi groups, [2:53:53] the Anti-Defamation League [2:53:54] and the American Jewish Committee [2:53:55] went undercover. [2:53:57] Bob Jackson. [2:53:58] Gentleman from Wisconsin [2:53:59] is recognized. [2:54:00] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [2:54:01] Dr. King, [2:54:03] Mr. Fair is saying, [2:54:04] that SPLC does not fund hate groups. [2:54:09] Is the KKK a hate group? [2:54:12] The KKK is a hate group [2:54:14] and what I'm very concerned about [2:54:16] is that whether it's for informants [2:54:19] or whatever, [2:54:20] manufacturing all this fear [2:54:22] and hate is not effective [2:54:24] and I do know, [2:54:26] somebody said that the SPLC donors [2:54:28] don't have any problems. [2:54:30] Well, some of the donors [2:54:31] have said, [2:54:33] I didn't know [2:54:33] that's what they were [2:54:34] spending the money for. [2:54:35] I didn't know [2:54:36] what they're doing. [2:54:37] So, it's not effective [2:54:39] to pay the KKK [2:54:42] or an informant [2:54:43] to pretend they're KKK [2:54:44] or whatever [2:54:45] and then they do KKK stuff [2:54:47] and people get hurt. [2:54:48] So, what we've also been hearing [2:54:49] from the other side here [2:54:50] is that [2:54:51] you must be [2:54:52] a white nationalist [2:54:53] if you oppose SPLC. [2:54:56] Are you, Dr. King, [2:54:58] a white nationalist? [2:54:59] I'm not a white nationalist [2:55:01] and I am on the SPLC watch list. [2:55:04] I have been and I am. [2:55:05] I may have called it [2:55:06] the wrong thing [2:55:07] but they have been watching. [2:55:09] Let's call it whatever it is, [2:55:11] watch list, map, whatever. [2:55:12] Yeah. [2:55:14] Mr. Fair, [2:55:15] there's a group, [2:55:16] Moms for Liberty, [2:55:17] that was added [2:55:18] to the hate map. [2:55:20] Why was it important [2:55:21] for your organization [2:55:22] to put the Moms for Liberty [2:55:23] on a hate map [2:55:26] or whatever designation [2:55:27] that you did? [2:55:30] Moms for Liberty, [2:55:31] Congressman Tiffany, [2:55:34] is an organization [2:55:36] that advocates against [2:55:38] school curricular inclusion. [2:55:43] It mentions, [2:55:46] it opposes LGBTQ rights. [2:55:50] It expresses... [2:55:51] When you use the term inclusion, [2:55:53] does that include [2:55:54] gender mutilation? [2:55:57] Because that's part [2:55:58] of what they oppose [2:55:59] is when you have minors [2:56:01] as young as kindergarten, [2:56:03] and I'll let you answer, [2:56:05] as young as kindergarten [2:56:06] where they're teaching them [2:56:07] that gender mutilation is okay. [2:56:10] Is that inclusion in your book? [2:56:13] They oppose the teaching [2:56:15] about race, [2:56:16] about sexual identity. [2:56:18] They seek to ban books. [2:56:21] They have been critical. [2:56:22] So if that book included [2:56:25] gender mutilation [2:56:26] is a good thing [2:56:28] that we should allow minors [2:56:30] to be able to do that, [2:56:32] you're saying that [2:56:33] that's a bad thing? [2:56:35] I'm saying that [2:56:36] Moms for Liberty [2:56:37] is listed on our hate map [2:56:39] because it demeans [2:56:40] and vilifies [2:56:41] people based on [2:56:43] their immutable characteristics. [2:56:46] It engages in various [2:56:49] kinds of conspiracy theories. [2:56:50] It seeks to whitewash [2:56:52] our history, [2:56:53] to exclude certain subjects [2:56:54] from our public schools. [2:56:56] Are family values [2:56:57] and parental rights, [2:56:59] are those conspiracy theories? [2:57:01] Congressman Tiffany, [2:57:05] Moms for Liberty [2:57:06] says that it's [2:57:06] for parental rights, [2:57:08] but then it interferes [2:57:10] with parental rights. [2:57:12] It interferes [2:57:13] with parental rights. [2:57:14] I'm a parent too, [2:57:16] and I want my children [2:57:17] to learn about [2:57:18] the history of this country. [2:57:20] I want them to learn [2:57:20] about racism. [2:57:21] I want them to learn [2:57:23] about hate [2:57:24] and the expression [2:57:25] of hate in this country. [2:57:26] So as a parent, [2:57:28] Moms for Liberty says [2:57:29] it gets to decide [2:57:31] for me and for other [2:57:33] millions of other parents [2:57:33] in this country. [2:57:34] That's not liberty. [2:57:35] I can assure you, [2:57:36] Mr. Fair, [2:57:38] that Moms for Liberty [2:57:39] is not a racist organization. [2:57:42] They may differ with you [2:57:44] in regards to gender mutilation [2:57:46] for children [2:57:47] 8, 10 years old [2:57:49] or whatever, [2:57:50] but I think that's [2:57:51] a fair debate [2:57:51] to be having. [2:57:52] But to say [2:57:53] that they're a racist... [2:57:55] What I said is that they seek... [2:57:56] I'm going to make [2:57:57] the statement here. [2:57:58] To say that they are [2:57:59] a racist organization [2:58:01] is inaccurate. [2:58:01] They seek to exclude [2:58:02] teaching about race [2:58:04] in this country [2:58:04] is what I said. [2:58:05] They are not [2:58:07] a racist organization [2:58:08] because I have been [2:58:09] around them. [2:58:10] To teach family values [2:58:11] and parental rights [2:58:12] I think is a good thing [2:58:13] here in America. [2:58:15] There are a couple [2:58:16] organizations in Wisconsin, [2:58:17] the public library system, [2:58:19] the Department of Public [2:58:20] Instruction [2:58:20] that house SPLC documents. [2:58:23] will you go back to them [2:58:26] and tell them [2:58:27] after the trial is done [2:58:29] and all of this [2:58:30] has been exposed [2:58:31] of what SPLC did, [2:58:33] are you going to go back [2:58:34] and tell them [2:58:34] we are sorry [2:58:36] that we misled [2:58:37] the good people [2:58:38] of the state of Wisconsin? [2:58:41] All of the allegations [2:58:41] and the indictment [2:58:42] will be addressed [2:58:43] in the Middle District [2:58:45] of Alabama. [2:58:46] And when it is deemed [2:58:50] that you did fund [2:58:51] these hateful organizations [2:58:53] like the KKK, [2:58:54] will you come back [2:58:56] and apologize [2:58:57] to those organizations [2:58:59] like the public library system [2:59:00] and the Department [2:59:01] of Public Instruction [2:59:02] in Wisconsin [2:59:03] that you did [2:59:04] the wrong thing? [2:59:06] We've already asserted [2:59:08] in our filings [2:59:08] that we did not lie [2:59:10] to our donors, [2:59:12] that we did not fund [2:59:14] any hate groups. [2:59:17] The Department of Justice [2:59:19] knew that we were [2:59:21] working with them, [2:59:23] that we shared information. [2:59:25] Tom and gentlemen, [2:59:26] Tom and gentlemen [2:59:26] has expired. [2:59:27] Mr. Chairman. [2:59:27] You name his consent request. [2:59:30] Just an article [2:59:31] with respect to [2:59:32] Moms for Liberty [2:59:33] and focusing specifically [2:59:34] on critical race theory [2:59:36] and DEI, [2:59:37] not specifically talking [2:59:39] about or teaching race [2:59:40] and their positions [2:59:41] on that election. [2:59:41] I'd like to insert [2:59:41] that on the record. [2:59:42] Objection. [2:59:43] Jen Lane from Texas [2:59:43] recognizes you. [2:59:44] You know what? [2:59:45] I hate that we have spent [2:59:46] this much time, [2:59:48] you know, [2:59:48] on SPLC [2:59:49] and we've not addressed [2:59:51] the elephant in the room, [2:59:52] the literal elephant [2:59:54] in the room. [2:59:55] The vast majority [2:59:56] of the people [2:59:57] on that side of the aisle [2:59:59] and for those of you [3:00:00] that are at home, [3:00:01] let me tell you, [3:00:02] when I say that side [3:00:03] of the aisle, [3:00:03] I'm talking about [3:00:04] the Republicans, [3:00:05] the ones that brought [3:00:06] this hearing [3:00:06] and again, [3:00:07] you've heard that [3:00:07] this is not the first hearing [3:00:09] but the vast majority [3:00:10] of them are white men. [3:00:12] White men [3:00:13] are lecturing people of color [3:00:15] because the vast majority, [3:00:17] actually, [3:00:18] any semblance of diversity [3:00:19] comes from this side [3:00:20] of the aisle. [3:00:21] You want to tell [3:00:22] people of color [3:00:23] who is fighting for who? [3:00:26] People of color [3:00:27] do not feel comfortable [3:00:28] or welcomed [3:00:29] within your party. [3:00:30] That's why you have [3:00:31] to parade someone [3:00:32] who has the name [3:00:33] Dr. King [3:00:34] attached to them [3:00:36] so that people [3:00:36] can be confused [3:00:37] because I have been [3:00:38] reading the comments [3:00:39] online and people [3:00:40] are like, [3:00:40] who is this Dr. King? [3:00:41] Because you want them [3:00:43] to believe that somehow [3:00:44] she espouses [3:00:45] who Dr. King was [3:00:47] yet you've yet to have [3:00:49] MLK III come in here, [3:00:51] you've yet to have [3:00:52] Dr. Bernice King, [3:00:53] the ones that were [3:00:54] actually raised [3:00:54] by Dr. King, [3:00:56] the ones that actually [3:00:57] probably understand [3:00:58] the teachings of Dr. King [3:00:59] and I just want to be clear [3:01:01] because I want to talk [3:01:02] to y'all about [3:01:02] what the Dr. King [3:01:04] had to say about racism [3:01:05] so that y'all [3:01:06] don't get it twisted [3:01:07] and don't get it confused [3:01:09] just because you see [3:01:09] the name sitting [3:01:10] in this room. [3:01:11] Our nation was born [3:01:12] in genocide [3:01:13] when it embraced [3:01:14] the doctrine [3:01:15] that the original American, [3:01:18] the Indian, [3:01:19] was an inferior race. [3:01:20] That was from his 1963 book [3:01:23] Why We Can't Wait. [3:01:26] He also said [3:01:27] in the final analysis [3:01:29] racism is evil [3:01:30] because its ultimate logic [3:01:32] is genocide. [3:01:33] If one says [3:01:34] that I am not good enough [3:01:36] to live next door to him [3:01:37] or to have a good decent job [3:01:39] or to go to school with him [3:01:41] merely because of my race, [3:01:43] he is saying consciously [3:01:44] or unconsciously [3:01:45] that I do not deserve to exist. [3:01:48] This was from his 1967 speech [3:01:50] the other America. [3:01:52] So just to be clear, [3:01:55] y'all don't seem like [3:01:56] y'all even understand [3:01:57] what a hate organization is. [3:01:59] So I went to Google [3:01:59] to help you out. [3:02:01] A hate group [3:02:02] is an organized group [3:02:04] whose beliefs, practices [3:02:05] and primary purpose [3:02:06] are centered on advocating [3:02:07] malice, hostility [3:02:09] or violence towards people [3:02:10] based on their [3:02:11] immutable characteristics [3:02:13] such as race, religion, [3:02:14] ethnicity, gender, [3:02:15] sexual orientation [3:02:17] or disability. [3:02:19] So I know some of y'all [3:02:21] are, you know, [3:02:22] caping for Charlie Kirk [3:02:25] because I done heard y'all [3:02:26] talk about his organization [3:02:27] over and over and over. [3:02:29] So I'm not going to play [3:02:30] with anybody [3:02:31] who's going to play [3:02:31] with my time. [3:02:32] So I'm going directly [3:02:32] to Miss McCord. [3:02:34] Professor, [3:02:35] let me put some respect [3:02:36] on your name. [3:02:37] All right. [3:02:38] If I see a black pilot, [3:02:41] I'm going to be like, [3:02:42] boy, I hope he's qualified. [3:02:44] Does that sound like [3:02:45] a hater or not? [3:02:48] That sounds like [3:02:48] a racial stereotype. [3:02:49] Okay, sounds good to me. [3:02:51] We made a huge mistake [3:02:53] when we passed [3:02:54] the Civil Rights Act [3:02:55] in the mid-1960s. [3:02:58] That sounds like someone [3:02:59] who still adheres [3:03:02] to racist views. [3:03:03] Okay. [3:03:04] America has freedom [3:03:05] of religion, of course, [3:03:06] but we should be frank. [3:03:08] Large, dedicated [3:03:09] Islamic areas [3:03:10] are a threat to America. [3:03:13] That is someone [3:03:14] who can't accept [3:03:15] that America is [3:03:16] a multiracial, [3:03:17] multireligious place. [3:03:18] Okay, these all [3:03:19] just happen to be comments [3:03:20] from the fearless leader [3:03:22] of Turning Point USA, [3:03:26] so I could see [3:03:26] where SPLC was going. [3:03:28] I also think [3:03:28] that it's so interesting [3:03:29] that right now, [3:03:31] just for those sitting at home, [3:03:32] you may not know [3:03:33] that Oversight [3:03:34] is not having any hearings [3:03:35] right now [3:03:36] because the Republicans [3:03:37] don't want to deal [3:03:37] with the Epstein file, [3:03:38] so they have shut down [3:03:39] all of Oversight [3:03:40] Committee hearings, right? [3:03:42] So we've got [3:03:43] an indictment for SPLC. [3:03:46] I have still yet [3:03:47] to see an indictment [3:03:48] on any Epstein defendant. [3:03:50] Not a one, [3:03:51] but okay. [3:03:53] And we want to talk [3:03:54] about what happened [3:03:55] in Charlottesville, [3:03:56] and we are so upset [3:03:58] about Charlottesville [3:04:00] all of a sudden. [3:04:03] I would be interested [3:04:04] to know which one [3:04:05] of you had something [3:04:06] to say about Charlottesville [3:04:07] when it happened [3:04:07] because I don't think [3:04:08] that y'all were [3:04:09] saying those same things. [3:04:11] In fact, [3:04:11] our fearless leader [3:04:12] at the time [3:04:12] said that there were [3:04:13] pretty fine people [3:04:14] on both sides. [3:04:14] You were okay [3:04:15] with the tiki torches. [3:04:16] You were okay with it. [3:04:18] But I digress. [3:04:18] I'm going to move [3:04:19] on to Texas [3:04:20] in my last 24 seconds. [3:04:23] In your testimony [3:04:24] before the Texas [3:04:24] House of Representatives, [3:04:26] you read aloud [3:04:26] a series of messages [3:04:27] between you [3:04:28] and other whistleblowers [3:04:29] basically explaining [3:04:30] the corruption happening [3:04:31] directed by Attorney General [3:04:32] Ken Paxton. [3:04:33] On page 82, [3:04:34] lines 5 through 11, [3:04:36] you list all the corruption [3:04:37] that Ken Paxton directed [3:04:38] you and others [3:04:39] to carry out [3:04:40] to, quote, [3:04:41] demanding that we investigate [3:04:42] facially bogus charges, [3:04:44] refusing to take [3:04:44] our advice [3:04:45] that there is [3:04:46] no prosecutable offense, [3:04:48] demanding that we hire [3:04:49] outside counsel [3:04:50] and authorizing [3:04:51] an improper [3:04:51] fishing expedition. [3:04:53] Is that correct? [3:04:56] The time [3:04:56] the gentleman [3:04:56] has expired. [3:04:57] The gentleman [3:04:57] can respond [3:04:58] if you want. [3:04:58] My testimony [3:04:59] from that proceeding [3:05:00] stands for itself. [3:05:02] Just to clarify, [3:05:04] the gentleman [3:05:04] the time has expired. [3:05:06] I understand. [3:05:07] Our next person [3:05:07] is going to give you time, [3:05:08] Dr. King, [3:05:08] to respond. [3:05:09] So we will now recognize [3:05:10] the gentleman [3:05:11] from South Carolina. [3:05:14] Dr. King, [3:05:15] thank you for being here. [3:05:17] I know that there was [3:05:17] a monologue earlier [3:05:18] in which you wanted [3:05:19] to respond. [3:05:20] I think you were [3:05:21] kind of ready [3:05:21] to do that, [3:05:22] but we're not given [3:05:23] that opportunity. [3:05:24] Would you like [3:05:24] to briefly respond [3:05:25] to that? [3:05:25] Very briefly, [3:05:26] Congresswoman. [3:05:29] I am a bit emotional. [3:05:31] I'm going to watch [3:05:32] what I say. [3:05:33] But it seems as though [3:05:34] you have suggested [3:05:36] that I am a bastard [3:05:39] to the King family legacy. [3:05:42] I am legitimately [3:05:43] the daughter [3:05:44] of Reverend Alfred Daniel [3:05:47] Williams King [3:05:48] and Dr. Naomi Ruth [3:05:50] Barbara King. [3:05:51] We are a family [3:05:53] who loves God [3:05:55] and I love you. [3:05:57] God bless you. [3:05:58] Ms. King, [3:05:58] let the record reflect [3:05:59] that the gentlelady [3:06:00] from Texas [3:06:00] left the room. [3:06:02] Thank you for responding [3:06:03] to that. [3:06:06] Mr. Fair, [3:06:07] the SPLC website, [3:06:08] you have a section [3:06:09] called the extremist files [3:06:11] with profiles of groups [3:06:12] and individuals [3:06:13] that according [3:06:14] to your frequently [3:06:15] asked questions [3:06:15] are key figures [3:06:17] on the hard right. [3:06:18] you don't have [3:06:20] any criteria listed [3:06:21] but just for education purposes, [3:06:24] how does somebody [3:06:25] become part [3:06:26] of the extremist files? [3:06:31] Thank you, [3:06:32] Congressman Frey. [3:06:33] Our team [3:06:35] in the Intelligence Project [3:06:36] uses various criteria [3:06:40] to identify folks [3:06:42] on extremist files. [3:06:43] Like what? [3:06:44] Like what is the criteria? [3:06:45] I'm sorry, [3:06:47] their statements [3:06:48] and their activities [3:06:49] are the criteria. [3:06:52] All right, [3:06:52] so I'm going to get like, [3:06:52] so for example, [3:06:53] if an individual [3:06:55] is the leader [3:06:56] of a KKK chapter, [3:06:58] that person [3:06:59] is overtly [3:07:01] out in the public [3:07:02] as the leader [3:07:03] of a KKK chapter, [3:07:04] they're probably apt [3:07:05] to be on the extremist files [3:07:06] based on their position, [3:07:08] their statement, [3:07:09] their association [3:07:09] with the KKK. [3:07:10] Is that fair to say? [3:07:11] That determination, [3:07:14] Congressman Frey, [3:07:15] would be made [3:07:16] by the experts [3:07:17] at the SPLC. [3:07:19] Right, [3:07:20] but I mean, [3:07:20] that would be [3:07:21] an overt person, [3:07:22] somebody that's [3:07:22] out in front of this. [3:07:24] They would be more likely [3:07:25] than not to be included [3:07:26] on that file. [3:07:27] Is that correct? [3:07:28] Could be, [3:07:28] could be on the hate map, [3:07:29] could be on the hate list. [3:07:31] Is it truly objective [3:07:32] or is it very subjective? [3:07:33] I mean, [3:07:34] it sounds like it's [3:07:34] like this committee, [3:07:35] this mysterious committee [3:07:36] decides who's a hater [3:07:37] and who's not. [3:07:40] As my testimony shows, [3:07:42] we use specific criteria. [3:07:44] But I don't, [3:07:45] but your testimony [3:07:46] hasn't shown anything. [3:07:47] You haven't talked [3:07:47] about what that criteria is. [3:07:48] So what the heck [3:07:49] is the criteria? [3:07:50] Well, [3:07:50] earlier, [3:07:51] before you were in the room, [3:07:52] I believe, [3:07:52] Congressman Frey, [3:07:53] I said, [3:07:55] our criteria is, [3:07:56] we identify people [3:07:57] for the hate map, [3:07:59] the hate list, [3:08:00] I'm sorry, [3:08:00] who, [3:08:03] through their statements, [3:08:04] the statements [3:08:04] of their leaders, [3:08:05] the principles [3:08:06] of the organization, [3:08:08] all right, [3:08:08] so let me, [3:08:09] demonize and vilify. [3:08:10] So collect the body [3:08:11] of evidence then. [3:08:12] How about that? [3:08:13] Let's just, [3:08:13] let's just cut to the chase. [3:08:14] What, [3:08:15] so if somebody poses [3:08:16] with a Nazi flag [3:08:18] or KKK memorabilia, [3:08:19] that might be a factor, [3:08:21] right, [3:08:21] in whether or not [3:08:23] they should be [3:08:24] on the extremist file, [3:08:25] correct? [3:08:25] It could be a factor. [3:08:26] Not the determining factor, [3:08:28] but a factor. [3:08:29] Is that fair to say? [3:08:32] It's, again, [3:08:33] Like, [3:08:33] the answer is yes, [3:08:34] dude, [3:08:35] like, [3:08:35] this is not a trap question. [3:08:36] I'm giving you, [3:08:37] like, [3:08:37] softballs. [3:08:37] Well, [3:08:39] if somebody does [3:08:39] a Nazi salute [3:08:40] in a public forum [3:08:42] or in public view, [3:08:43] would that be a factor? [3:08:45] It could be. [3:08:46] Could be, [3:08:46] okay. [3:08:47] What about burning a cross? [3:08:53] It could, [3:08:53] it could be a factor [3:08:54] depending on the context. [3:08:56] Okay. [3:08:57] Have tattoos [3:08:58] like Nazi symbols? [3:09:02] We believe that [3:09:03] Nazi symbols [3:09:03] are symbols of hate. [3:09:05] Yes. [3:09:06] What about, [3:09:07] what about if the individual [3:09:09] had knowledge [3:09:10] of what the Nazi symbol [3:09:11] was when they put [3:09:12] the tattoo on their body [3:09:13] or at least learned [3:09:14] about it? [3:09:16] I'm not sure [3:09:17] that I'm following [3:09:18] your line of questions. [3:09:19] Well, [3:09:19] I think it would show [3:09:19] intent, right? [3:09:20] Like, [3:09:20] intent would be [3:09:21] that the person knew [3:09:22] that their, [3:09:24] the tattoo that they placed [3:09:25] on their body [3:09:25] was a Nazi tattoo. [3:09:27] I'm not sure [3:09:27] I can comment [3:09:28] on someone else's intent. [3:09:29] I think your own website [3:09:29] talks about this. [3:09:30] If this is an easy yes. [3:09:32] What if, [3:09:32] what if this individual [3:09:33] referred to their, [3:09:34] their tattoo [3:09:36] as a Totenkopf? [3:09:41] I'm not sure I know. [3:09:41] Do you know [3:09:41] who I'm describing right now? [3:09:44] No, [3:09:44] I don't. [3:09:44] I think you do, [3:09:45] actually. [3:09:46] That's Graham Plattner [3:09:47] from Maine. [3:09:48] Like, [3:09:48] this is like, [3:09:49] he was probably [3:09:49] the best thing [3:09:50] coming because [3:09:51] it actually distracted [3:09:52] the media narrative [3:09:53] away from the SPLC [3:09:54] for like two days [3:09:55] while they focused [3:09:56] on this. [3:09:57] But why would [3:09:58] a Graham Plattner [3:09:58] not be included [3:09:59] on your extremist files? [3:10:00] If he was a Republican, [3:10:01] he probably would be, right? [3:10:04] We don't use [3:10:04] political ideology, [3:10:06] a political party [3:10:08] to identify [3:10:09] who is on our list. [3:10:10] Well, [3:10:11] I think you say [3:10:11] you go after [3:10:12] the members of the right, [3:10:13] but I think [3:10:13] as Dr. King [3:10:14] was talking about [3:10:15] before she stepped out, [3:10:17] that this, [3:10:18] this racism knows [3:10:19] no ideology [3:10:20] or political party. [3:10:21] In fact, [3:10:21] the Democrat Party [3:10:22] has a very long [3:10:23] and troubled history [3:10:23] since its inception [3:10:24] in the 1820s [3:10:26] and 30s [3:10:26] of supporting slavery, [3:10:28] of supporting segregation, [3:10:30] of continuing [3:10:30] to perpetuate racism [3:10:32] in our country. [3:10:33] And so the fraud [3:10:34] that you have perpetuated [3:10:35] on your donors [3:10:35] and the American people [3:10:36] at the expense [3:10:37] of eviscerating [3:10:38] hate, [3:10:40] you're only targeting [3:10:40] one sect of people. [3:10:42] It makes absolutely [3:10:43] no sense. [3:10:44] The organization [3:10:45] should be ashamed [3:10:46] of itself [3:10:46] and you should be [3:10:47] ashamed for being... [3:10:48] Time of the gentleman [3:10:48] has expired. [3:10:49] The gentleman from Missouri [3:10:50] is recognized [3:10:50] for five minutes. [3:10:53] Thank you, [3:10:54] Mr. Chairman, [3:10:54] for holding this [3:10:55] very important meeting... [3:10:57] hearing today. [3:10:58] It's clear that the SPLC [3:11:00] has strayed [3:11:00] from its original mission [3:11:02] and used questionable [3:11:03] and, frankly, [3:11:04] illegal tactics [3:11:05] to drive donations [3:11:07] and manufacture [3:11:08] political relevance. [3:11:10] Mr. Fair, [3:11:10] the SPLC labeled [3:11:12] Charlie Kirk [3:11:13] and his organization [3:11:14] Dangerous Extremists [3:11:16] in its Hate Watch newsletter, [3:11:18] and Charlie Kirk [3:11:20] was assassinated [3:11:21] the very next day. [3:11:22] Do you regret [3:11:23] signing off [3:11:23] on that newsletter? [3:11:26] Congressman Otner, [3:11:28] what I regret [3:11:28] is the political violence [3:11:30] in this country [3:11:31] on any side of the aisle. [3:11:32] Do you regret [3:11:34] naming Turning Point USA [3:11:36] a hate group [3:11:37] several months earlier? [3:11:39] What I regret, again, [3:11:40] is the political violence [3:11:41] in this country and... [3:11:42] Are you willing [3:11:43] to take any responsibility [3:11:44] for the assassination [3:11:45] of Charlie Kirk? [3:11:48] I'll take that as a no. [3:11:49] How about the designation [3:11:51] of the Family Research Council [3:11:53] as a hate group? [3:11:54] The gunman told the FBI [3:11:55] he was inspired [3:11:57] by the SPLC's list. [3:11:59] Does SPLC accept [3:12:01] any responsibility [3:12:02] for that violent 2012 attack [3:12:05] on the Family Research Council? [3:12:08] Congressman Otner, [3:12:09] again, [3:12:10] political violence [3:12:11] in this country [3:12:11] is despicable. [3:12:14] We oppose unequivocally [3:12:16] all political violence, [3:12:18] and we're not responsible... [3:12:19] I'm sorry. [3:12:20] Has the SPLC... [3:12:20] Has the SPLC ever apologized [3:12:22] to Leo Johnson, [3:12:23] the building manager, [3:12:25] who was previously [3:12:26] wounded in the terrorist attack [3:12:28] on FROC, [3:12:29] the same attack [3:12:31] that the gunman [3:12:32] said he was inspired [3:12:33] by your hate list? [3:12:36] Congressman Otner... [3:12:38] You decry political violence. [3:12:40] You incite it, [3:12:41] but you decry it. [3:12:42] We don't incite [3:12:42] political violence. [3:12:43] Let's move on. [3:12:44] Mr. Fair, [3:12:45] the SPLC's... [3:12:46] We condemn it always. [3:12:47] ...latest hate map [3:12:48] includes 20 hate [3:12:50] and anti-government groups [3:12:51] in my home state of Missouri. [3:12:53] That list includes [3:12:53] gays against groomers, [3:12:55] and your website seems to... [3:12:58] Your main beef [3:13:00] with gays against groomers [3:13:01] seems to be [3:13:01] that they oppose [3:13:02] the chemical and surgical [3:13:03] mutilation of children. [3:13:06] But a few months ago, [3:13:07] the American College [3:13:08] of Plastic Surgeons [3:13:09] updated their guidelines [3:13:11] to no longer recommend [3:13:13] transgender surgery [3:13:15] on minors. [3:13:16] Is the American College [3:13:18] of Plastic Surgeons [3:13:20] also a hate group? [3:13:21] They oppose chemically [3:13:24] and surgically [3:13:25] mutilating minors. [3:13:26] Is the American Society [3:13:28] of Plastic Surgeons [3:13:30] a hate group? [3:13:32] Again... [3:13:32] I know it sounds [3:13:33] like an absurd question, [3:13:34] but that's how absurd [3:13:35] your hate map has gotten. [3:13:36] Our... [3:13:37] Our... [3:13:39] reporting on hate [3:13:41] and extremism [3:13:42] uses the statements... [3:13:43] May I finish? [3:13:45] Uses the statements [3:13:46] and activities [3:13:47] of various groups. [3:13:49] And based on those statements, [3:13:50] we expose [3:13:51] and share with the public [3:13:52] what they say. [3:13:53] It seems like one of... [3:13:54] One thing that many [3:13:55] of the groups that we... [3:13:57] You've labeled hate groups, [3:13:58] that we've talked about [3:13:59] this morning, [3:14:01] have in common [3:14:02] is that they oppose [3:14:03] the chemical and surgical [3:14:04] mutilation of minor children, [3:14:08] as does the United Kingdom, [3:14:10] as does Sweden, [3:14:11] Finland, Norway, Denmark, [3:14:13] and the United States [3:14:15] Department of Health [3:14:17] and Human Services. [3:14:19] Are the seven groups [3:14:20] I just mentioned, [3:14:21] hate groups, [3:14:21] the public health authorities [3:14:23] in the UK and Finland [3:14:24] and Denmark and so on, [3:14:25] are those hate groups? [3:14:27] Congressman, [3:14:27] we identify groups. [3:14:29] Okay, [3:14:30] how about a group [3:14:30] you've identified [3:14:31] that just happens [3:14:33] to have won 18 cases [3:14:35] before the United States [3:14:36] Supreme Court [3:14:37] and been instrumental [3:14:37] in 85 other cases, [3:14:40] Alliance Defending Freedom? [3:14:42] Are they a hate group? [3:14:43] Are you going to double down [3:14:43] on that today? [3:14:44] ADF is a hate group, [3:14:45] yes or no? [3:14:48] May I answer your question? [3:14:49] Yes or no? [3:14:52] ADF is listed [3:14:54] because of statements [3:14:55] it has made [3:14:58] against... [3:15:00] Okay, [3:15:00] you said that [3:15:01] about other groups. [3:15:02] Okay, [3:15:02] you're... [3:15:03] You don't want me [3:15:03] to respond, [3:15:04] obviously. [3:15:05] Because of statements [3:15:05] they made [3:15:06] according to criteria [3:15:07] that you couldn't [3:15:08] clearly articulate [3:15:09] to Congressman Frey. [3:15:11] Okay, [3:15:11] I'll ask you, [3:15:11] Mr. Bangert. [3:15:13] Mr. Bangert, [3:15:14] why do you think [3:15:14] the Alliance Defending Freedom, [3:15:16] a group that's won [3:15:18] 18 cases [3:15:19] before the United States [3:15:20] Supreme Court, [3:15:21] is on this [3:15:22] defamation machines [3:15:25] hate map? [3:15:26] Well, [3:15:27] that's a great question, [3:15:27] Congressman. [3:15:28] I went and looked [3:15:28] at their website [3:15:29] this morning [3:15:29] and the reasons, [3:15:30] one of the reasons [3:15:31] they give for ADF [3:15:32] being listed [3:15:33] is because, [3:15:34] according to the SPLC, [3:15:35] we support the state [3:15:36] sponsored mutilation [3:15:39] of adults [3:15:40] and children, [3:15:41] basically rendering [3:15:43] them sterile. [3:15:44] The odd thing [3:15:45] about that [3:15:46] is in the state [3:15:47] of Alabama, [3:15:48] we came alongside [3:15:49] the Attorney General [3:15:49] to defend a statute [3:15:52] that would have [3:15:53] prohibited medical [3:15:55] professionals [3:15:55] from performing [3:15:56] procedures on children [3:15:58] that would have [3:15:58] sterilized them. [3:15:59] And interestingly, [3:16:00] on the other side [3:16:01] of the V in that case, [3:16:02] one of the law firms [3:16:03] was the Southern [3:16:04] Poverty Law Center. [3:16:06] Well, [3:16:06] there you go. [3:16:07] I think that's why [3:16:07] you're a hate group. [3:16:09] Thank you. [3:16:10] I yield back. [3:16:10] Gentleman yields back. [3:16:11] Gentleman from Texas [3:16:12] to recognize. [3:16:13] Thank you, [3:16:14] Mr. Chairman. [3:16:15] What I find [3:16:17] truly ironic [3:16:18] is that how [3:16:19] this is a second hearing [3:16:20] in just a few weeks [3:16:21] and where we [3:16:22] have to confront [3:16:23] the hatred [3:16:24] festering inside [3:16:24] the very organization [3:16:25] that claims [3:16:26] that it is fighting [3:16:27] for, [3:16:28] fighting against, [3:16:29] of course, [3:16:29] the hatred that being. [3:16:30] According to [3:16:31] a superseding indictment, [3:16:32] the SPLC paid [3:16:33] more than $4.1 million [3:16:35] to informants [3:16:37] tied to extremist groups, [3:16:38] including the KKK [3:16:39] from 2010 to 2023. [3:16:43] In two cases, [3:16:43] informants [3:16:44] who were active members [3:16:45] of the local KKK chapter [3:16:47] reportedly told the SPLC [3:16:49] that they wanted out [3:16:50] because they feared [3:16:52] for their safety. [3:16:54] Instead of supporting [3:16:55] their exit, [3:16:56] the SPLC employee [3:16:58] allegedly encouraged them [3:17:00] to remain involved [3:17:01] and offered them [3:17:03] a monthly salary [3:17:04] of $1,200 to do so. [3:17:07] As a result, [3:17:08] one informant rose [3:17:10] into a leadership role [3:17:11] within the KKK, [3:17:12] recruited other new members, [3:17:13] purchased KKK materials, [3:17:15] and were even reimbursed [3:17:16] for expensive related [3:17:17] to cross-burning events. [3:17:19] I can't make this up. [3:17:21] This is not just ironic, sir. [3:17:23] It's quite outrageous. [3:17:26] Sir, as you highlighted [3:17:27] in your testimony, [3:17:28] these organizations [3:17:28] have survived 55 years [3:17:30] taking donations [3:17:31] from generous donors. [3:17:33] During this time, [3:17:34] were these donors [3:17:34] ever informed [3:17:35] where and whom [3:17:37] their money [3:17:37] was being passed on to? [3:17:40] Congressman Hunt. [3:17:41] Yes, sir. [3:17:42] All the allegations [3:17:43] in the indictment [3:17:44] will be addressed [3:17:45] in the Middle District [3:17:46] of Alabama [3:17:46] in the case pending [3:17:48] against the SPLC. [3:17:48] So you were taking money [3:17:49] from people, [3:17:50] and were they informed [3:17:51] that this was actually [3:17:52] funding members [3:17:53] of the KKK? [3:17:56] Congressman Hunt. [3:17:57] So if a donor says, [3:17:58] hey, I'm going to give y'all [3:17:59] a million dollars, [3:18:01] did you then say, [3:18:02] we're actually going to have [3:18:03] a covert operation [3:18:04] that's going to secretly [3:18:05] give money to KKK [3:18:06] to fund the organization? [3:18:07] And then did the donor [3:18:08] then say, [3:18:09] well, that sounds like [3:18:09] a good idea. [3:18:10] Please take more of my money? [3:18:11] That ever happened? [3:18:13] Congressman Hunt. [3:18:14] Yes, sir. [3:18:14] All of the allegations [3:18:15] in the indictment [3:18:17] will be addressed [3:18:18] in the Middle District [3:18:19] of Alabama [3:18:20] in the criminal proceedings. [3:18:22] So, you know, [3:18:22] here in politics, [3:18:23] we take, you know, [3:18:24] we take money from donors, [3:18:25] and, you know, [3:18:25] we have a lot of donor meetings, [3:18:26] and the first thing [3:18:27] we want to do [3:18:27] is they want to understand [3:18:28] the platform [3:18:29] that they are given to. [3:18:30] And my guess is that [3:18:31] if you have a donor [3:18:31] that's given to your organization, [3:18:33] you didn't tell them [3:18:33] that they were giving money [3:18:34] to KKK, [3:18:34] that's fair to say. [3:18:36] And if they did know [3:18:37] that they were giving money [3:18:37] to the KKK, [3:18:38] I would call that [3:18:39] nefarious intent. [3:18:40] We have a bigger problem [3:18:41] in this country [3:18:42] and with your organization. [3:18:43] So I will say this. [3:18:45] My Democrat colleagues [3:18:46] sit here [3:18:47] and they defend [3:18:47] your organization, [3:18:48] and I will use my time [3:18:49] and the rest of my time [3:18:50] to reiterate [3:18:50] what I have said [3:18:52] many a day [3:18:53] sitting in this chair. [3:18:54] The Democrat Party [3:18:55] has built an entire [3:18:56] political machine [3:18:57] on grievance. [3:18:58] They don't want [3:18:59] to solve problems. [3:19:00] They want to reopen [3:19:00] wounds of the past. [3:19:02] They don't offer vision. [3:19:03] They offer victimhood. [3:19:05] Racism, [3:19:06] white supremacy, [3:19:07] Jim Crow, [3:19:08] democracy is dying. [3:19:10] Why? [3:19:10] Because fear [3:19:11] is the currency [3:19:12] of the Democrat Party. [3:19:14] Division is their strategy. [3:19:15] Outrage [3:19:16] is their oxygen. [3:19:18] I had a previous colleague [3:19:19] that talked about, [3:19:21] you know, [3:19:21] seeing a black pilot [3:19:22] and what that would mean [3:19:23] to Charlie Kirk's comments. [3:19:25] And it's funny, [3:19:25] black pilot here, [3:19:26] by the way. [3:19:27] I actually went [3:19:28] to fly school, [3:19:29] West Point graduate, [3:19:30] learned how to fly [3:19:30] the Apache helicopter [3:19:31] with the flight school [3:19:32] in 2005. [3:19:33] You see, [3:19:33] there was no DEI. [3:19:35] We just simply competed [3:19:36] with everyone else [3:19:37] and I was selected, [3:19:38] fought in combat, [3:19:39] went on to fly [3:19:40] 55 combat air missions [3:19:41] and nobody gave a damn [3:19:43] what I looked like [3:19:43] because I got there [3:19:44] on merit. [3:19:46] What DEI does [3:19:47] is it lowers standards [3:19:48] based on race [3:19:50] and based on gender. [3:19:52] Ma'am, [3:19:53] you are nodding your head. [3:19:54] First of all, [3:19:54] thank you for your legacy. [3:19:55] Thank you for your family's legacy. [3:19:57] What was your uncle's dream, [3:19:59] if you don't mind me asking? [3:20:03] Martin Luther King said [3:20:04] he had a dream [3:20:05] that was rooted [3:20:06] in the American dream [3:20:07] that one day [3:20:08] there would be [3:20:09] no black power [3:20:09] and no white power, [3:20:10] only God power [3:20:12] and human power. [3:20:14] He wanted us to learn [3:20:15] to live together [3:20:16] as brothers and sisters [3:20:17] and not perish as fools. [3:20:19] Why would we only get [3:20:20] 10% set aside [3:20:22] when we are entitled [3:20:23] to the same percentage [3:20:24] as every American [3:20:25] out of the 100%? [3:20:26] I'm going to yield back to you [3:20:28] because I would talk too long. [3:20:30] God bless you, sir. [3:20:32] God bless you, ma'am. [3:20:33] And what I understand [3:20:34] is that as Democrats [3:20:34] would have it, [3:20:35] they would think [3:20:35] that every single black person [3:20:36] should be a Democrat, [3:20:37] which would make us [3:20:38] the only demographic [3:20:39] in the entire world [3:20:40] that would think [3:20:41] that their entire race [3:20:42] should belong to one party. [3:20:44] And what your uncle [3:20:44] was referring to is this, [3:20:45] being judged not [3:20:46] by the color of your skin [3:20:46] but by the content [3:20:47] of your character [3:20:48] and having representation [3:20:49] from all people, [3:20:50] from all walks of life [3:20:51] on both sides of the party. [3:20:52] And I would argue [3:20:53] that I am living, [3:20:54] we are living your uncle's dream. [3:20:56] Are we perfect? [3:20:57] No, we're not. [3:20:57] One blood, one race. [3:20:58] Yes, ma'am. [3:20:58] Yes, ma'am. [3:21:00] I've seated before you today [3:21:01] as a United States congressman. [3:21:02] My brother, sister, and I [3:21:03] all went to West Point. [3:21:04] We're all West Point graduates. [3:21:05] We all served our country. [3:21:06] And I'm here to tell you [3:21:07] that I am living that dream [3:21:09] every single day. [3:21:10] And I am so proud of you [3:21:12] and proud of what you stand for [3:21:13] because I know it's not easy. [3:21:14] But I'm so glad [3:21:15] that people like you [3:21:16] are fighting the good fight [3:21:17] for the great future [3:21:17] of this country [3:21:18] because we are here [3:21:19] living Dr. Martin Luther King's dream. [3:21:22] It's why I am sitting here today [3:21:24] being judged not [3:21:24] by the color of my skin, [3:21:26] by the content of my character [3:21:27] from a white majority district [3:21:29] in Houston, Texas, [3:21:30] and I've been black [3:21:31] for my entire life. [3:21:32] Stop listening to the crap [3:21:33] of the left [3:21:34] and realize that we are all [3:21:35] in one boat [3:21:37] rowing in the same direction [3:21:38] because of people like you. [3:21:40] We must fight against organizations [3:21:41] that want to give a dime [3:21:43] to organizations like the KKK [3:21:45] for whatever reason. [3:21:47] I'll give back the remainder of my time. [3:21:48] If you're willing [3:21:49] to grant us equal time, [3:21:50] I'm fine and let them go [3:21:51] as long as they want. [3:21:52] That was good. [3:21:53] Gentleman from North Carolina [3:22:00] is recognized. [3:22:02] Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman, [3:22:03] and that was tremendously [3:22:04] passionate to my colleague. [3:22:06] Mr. Hunt, thank you [3:22:07] for your incredible words [3:22:08] and admonition [3:22:09] to all of us today. [3:22:11] Mr. Fair, I want to talk [3:22:12] to you for just a moment. [3:22:13] It's been referenced [3:22:14] several times today [3:22:14] about the shooting [3:22:15] that took place [3:22:16] at Family Research Council's [3:22:17] headquarters in 2012. [3:22:19] As I've stated before, [3:22:21] I actually have worked for [3:22:22] and been a part [3:22:23] of Family Research Council, [3:22:24] and it is, frankly, [3:22:25] a pro-family, [3:22:26] pro-life group [3:22:27] that promotes [3:22:27] the Christian values [3:22:28] that are held [3:22:29] by many Americans [3:22:30] in this country. [3:22:31] But when you place groups [3:22:32] like FRC [3:22:33] on a so-called hate map [3:22:35] with groups [3:22:36] like we've heard today, [3:22:37] KKK and the Aryan Brotherhood, [3:22:40] it places a target [3:22:41] on the back of those groups [3:22:42] and can lead [3:22:43] to tragic incidents, [3:22:44] such as one [3:22:45] August 15, 2012, [3:22:47] when Floyd Lee Corkins II [3:22:48] entered FRC's headquarters [3:22:50] in Washington, [3:22:52] opened fire [3:22:52] in an attempt [3:22:53] to murder FRC employees. [3:22:56] Thankfully, [3:22:56] the heroic security guard, [3:22:58] Leo Johnson, [3:22:59] tackled Korkins [3:23:00] to the ground [3:23:00] and wrestled the gun [3:23:02] out of his hand [3:23:02] and got shot in the arm [3:23:04] in the process. [3:23:05] No one was killed. [3:23:06] Korkins was sent to prison. [3:23:08] But we all know [3:23:09] it could have easily been [3:23:10] far, far worse. [3:23:12] I just want to bring [3:23:13] to your attention [3:23:13] real quickly, [3:23:14] if I may, [3:23:15] what Korkins told police, [3:23:17] which I just want you [3:23:18] to see a video [3:23:18] for a moment [3:23:19] if we can, [3:23:20] right here at the center. [3:23:21] This building, [3:23:22] this organization, [3:23:24] how did you find it? [3:23:25] Did you look it up online [3:23:26] or how did you nail it? [3:23:28] So for those of you [3:23:40] who could not hear the video, [3:23:41] the convicted shooter [3:23:42] explicitly stated [3:23:44] that SPLC was his source [3:23:46] for finding out [3:23:47] about Family Research Council. [3:23:50] So Mr. Fair, [3:23:51] I just got to ask you, [3:23:52] first of all, [3:23:52] were you aware [3:23:53] that Mr. Korkins [3:23:54] had cited SPLC [3:23:56] as his source [3:23:57] for finding out [3:23:59] about FRC? [3:24:01] Congressman Harris, [3:24:03] the SPLC condemns [3:24:05] all political violence [3:24:06] in all circumstances. [3:24:10] We are not responsible [3:24:12] for Korkins' actions. [3:24:15] We never want anyone [3:24:16] to use our material [3:24:17] to advance political violence. [3:24:20] May I ask you, [3:24:21] was this the first time [3:24:21] you'd ever seen that video? [3:24:24] Yes. [3:24:25] First time you'd ever seen it. [3:24:26] What's your reaction [3:24:27] to hearing in that video [3:24:29] that the only reason [3:24:30] he found out [3:24:32] about Family Research Council [3:24:33] and decided to go [3:24:34] and try to execute [3:24:36] employees in that building? [3:24:38] What's your reaction to that? [3:24:40] My reaction is [3:24:41] that we condemn [3:24:43] political violence, [3:24:44] that we don't want anyone [3:24:45] ever to use our material [3:24:47] to advance political violence. [3:24:49] We share material [3:24:53] and inform the public [3:24:56] about what other groups [3:24:57] are saying [3:24:58] and the activities they take. [3:25:00] As of this morning, [3:25:01] FRC is still listed [3:25:02] on the hate map. [3:25:03] Why is it still up there? [3:25:05] And do you have any plans [3:25:06] to take it down? [3:25:09] FRC continues to be [3:25:10] on our hate map [3:25:11] because of the expressions [3:25:12] it makes vilifying [3:25:14] and demonizing [3:25:15] people within the LGBTQ plus community. [3:25:19] Well, I think it's despicable [3:25:21] that FRC was placed [3:25:22] on the hate list [3:25:23] in the first place [3:25:24] and that it still remains [3:25:25] on that list [3:25:26] over 10 years [3:25:27] after the attack [3:25:28] on those individuals. [3:25:29] I also want to bring [3:25:30] to the attention quickly [3:25:31] someone in this room [3:25:32] this morning [3:25:33] who has been personally [3:25:34] impacted [3:25:35] by your so-called hate map. [3:25:37] Rosalind Hansen [3:25:38] who serves [3:25:39] as the chapter chair [3:25:40] of Moms for Liberty [3:25:42] Montgomery County, Maryland [3:25:43] chapter [3:25:44] in a 2023 [3:25:45] child custody case [3:25:48] going through [3:25:48] the difficulty [3:25:49] of the challenge [3:25:50] of that [3:25:50] her ex-husband [3:25:52] specifically cited [3:25:53] the SPLC [3:25:54] to accuse her [3:25:56] of being involved [3:25:58] in a hate group. [3:26:00] So I just want to see [3:26:01] if it's sinking in [3:26:02] to anybody here [3:26:03] that the SPLC's defamation [3:26:06] is causing real world harm [3:26:10] everyday Americans [3:26:12] like Ms. Hansen [3:26:13] and it needs to stop. [3:26:15] I would also like [3:26:16] to enter into the record [3:26:17] today from Mrs. Hansen [3:26:19] the letter from Mrs. Hansen [3:26:21] to the U.S. Department [3:26:21] of Justice Civil Rights Division [3:26:23] dated May 17, 2026. [3:26:26] I'd also like to enter [3:26:27] into the record [3:26:27] a letter from North Carolina mom [3:26:29] Kim Petit [3:26:30] to the U.S. Department [3:26:31] of Justice Civil Rights Division [3:26:34] dated May 15, 2026. [3:26:37] Without objection. [3:26:38] Gentleman yields. [3:26:38] Mr. Chairman. [3:26:40] I'll yield. [3:26:41] Gentleman yields back. [3:26:42] Gentleman from Maryland [3:26:43] is recognized. [3:26:43] You see [3:26:44] this is from [3:26:46] Philadelphia Inquirer [3:26:47] the faith-based leader [3:26:48] for Philly's Moms [3:26:49] for Liberty chapter [3:26:50] is a registered sex offender. [3:26:52] Without objection. [3:26:55] We have 10 minutes. [3:26:56] We have two more [3:26:57] to go. [3:26:58] Then the gentleman [3:26:58] from Wisconsin [3:26:59] is recognized [3:26:59] for his five minutes. [3:27:00] Okay. [3:27:02] First of all [3:27:03] maybe not the most recent [3:27:06] developments [3:27:07] have come out publicly [3:27:09] but for years [3:27:11] due to financial [3:27:12] shenanigans [3:27:13] the Southern Poverty [3:27:17] Law Center [3:27:18] has been [3:27:20] in my mind [3:27:21] totally discredited. [3:27:23] But I'm going to ask [3:27:23] you a question [3:27:24] Dr. King [3:27:25] and I've talked [3:27:26] about this before. [3:27:28] One of the things [3:27:28] that bothers me [3:27:29] is given SPLC's [3:27:32] long documented [3:27:34] pattern [3:27:35] of partisan activity [3:27:37] and even more [3:27:38] financial misconduct [3:27:39] how do you explain [3:27:43] the continued [3:27:44] willingness [3:27:44] of major press [3:27:46] organs [3:27:47] to cite SPLC [3:27:49] as an authoritative source? [3:27:51] Why do we get this [3:27:53] again and again? [3:27:54] Things like [3:27:54] the Milwaukee Journal [3:27:55] the New York Times [3:27:58] if you were not [3:28:00] familiar with the [3:28:00] background [3:28:01] you'd think [3:28:01] holy cow [3:28:02] we have an authoritative [3:28:03] source here. [3:28:04] Why do you think [3:28:05] they do this? [3:28:09] Are you directing that? [3:28:10] Yeah to Dr. King. [3:28:15] I'm sorry. [3:28:15] Would you please [3:28:16] restate the question? [3:28:17] I'm sorry [3:28:18] SPLC has been [3:28:20] exposed for years [3:28:22] there are always [3:28:23] new things coming out [3:28:24] but just in general [3:28:25] financial misconduct [3:28:26] nevertheless [3:28:27] you pick up papers [3:28:29] like in my area [3:28:30] the Milwaukee Journal [3:28:31] the New York Times [3:28:33] the Washington Post [3:28:34] you pick up papers [3:28:35] and they cite [3:28:36] SPLC [3:28:38] as this great [3:28:39] wonderful organization [3:28:40] why do you think [3:28:42] despite the fact [3:28:43] that it's been [3:28:43] in the public record [3:28:44] for [3:28:45] it has to be [3:28:46] over a dozen years [3:28:47] that is a sleazy [3:28:48] organization [3:28:49] do [3:28:50] what used to be [3:28:52] mainstream news outlets [3:28:53] still cite it? [3:28:54] I believe we are [3:28:55] at a monumental [3:28:56] time in history [3:28:57] for instance [3:28:57] George Wallace [3:28:58] did repent of racism [3:29:00] Planned Parenthood [3:29:01] has admitted [3:29:02] that they are racist [3:29:03] SPLC [3:29:05] right now [3:29:06] has a time [3:29:07] in history [3:29:07] right now [3:29:08] to look at the things [3:29:09] that it has not [3:29:10] gotten right [3:29:11] and we can all [3:29:12] benefit from that [3:29:14] there have been [3:29:15] decades of this [3:29:16] kind of thing [3:29:16] in the 1960s [3:29:18] the informants [3:29:20] and all of that [3:29:20] were doing their work [3:29:21] ended up hurting [3:29:23] rather than helping [3:29:24] when you manufacture [3:29:26] hate [3:29:27] when you manufacture [3:29:28] and socially engineer [3:29:30] racism [3:29:31] as if we were [3:29:32] separate races [3:29:32] and we are only [3:29:33] one race [3:29:34] you're going to keep [3:29:35] getting unwarranted [3:29:36] fear and chaos [3:29:37] somebody said earlier [3:29:39] that there have been [3:29:40] decades of these [3:29:41] types of practices [3:29:42] these practices [3:29:43] have not worked [3:29:45] they are not working [3:29:46] you can't keep [3:29:47] paying informants [3:29:48] to do stuff [3:29:49] and then they end up [3:29:50] helping to do [3:29:51] terrible stuff [3:29:52] not tell the donors [3:29:53] that's what they're [3:29:54] paying for [3:29:54] I'm not sure [3:29:55] if I actually [3:29:56] answered your question [3:29:57] correctly [3:29:58] but it is wrong [3:30:00] these practices [3:30:00] are not working [3:30:02] we've got to do [3:30:04] something that will [3:30:05] heal us [3:30:06] we must come together [3:30:07] but some transparency [3:30:08] needs to come out [3:30:09] of SPLC [3:30:10] they can't act like [3:30:11] they're angels [3:30:12] and haven't done [3:30:13] anything [3:30:13] that's just not right [3:30:15] okay [3:30:16] I will point out [3:30:17] there's a good book [3:30:18] out there [3:30:18] America's Cultural Revolution [3:30:20] which talks about [3:30:22] the degree to which [3:30:22] a goal of the hard left [3:30:24] is to divide America [3:30:26] by race [3:30:27] and they obsess [3:30:28] about calling people [3:30:29] you know [3:30:30] Hispanic American [3:30:31] North African [3:30:32] Pacific Island [3:30:34] or whatever [3:30:35] I mean [3:30:35] this is not a coincidence [3:30:37] this is an effort [3:30:39] to destroy America [3:30:40] Mr. Bangart [3:30:41] do you believe [3:30:42] the mainstream press [3:30:43] has failed [3:30:43] to adequately scrutinize [3:30:45] SPLC's influence [3:30:46] on public discourse [3:30:48] particularly given [3:30:50] the organization's [3:30:51] controversial labeling [3:30:52] practices [3:30:53] and concerns [3:30:54] raised by former employees [3:30:55] thank you [3:30:57] congressman [3:30:58] I believe the SPLC [3:30:59] has been [3:31:01] mostly ignored [3:31:02] in terms of [3:31:03] the way that it [3:31:04] has defrauded [3:31:06] the American public [3:31:06] and here's what [3:31:07] I mean by that [3:31:07] the SPLC [3:31:09] presents itself [3:31:10] as a neutral arbiter [3:31:12] of what counts [3:31:13] as hate [3:31:13] however [3:31:15] the way that it [3:31:16] defines hate [3:31:17] very frequently [3:31:19] excludes [3:31:20] from the public [3:31:21] discourse [3:31:22] their political [3:31:24] opponents [3:31:25] who disagree [3:31:25] with them [3:31:26] on matters [3:31:27] of freedom [3:31:28] of religion [3:31:28] we've already [3:31:30] talked extensively [3:31:31] today [3:31:31] about this question [3:31:33] of gender [3:31:34] mutilating surgeries [3:31:35] we've also [3:31:36] talked [3:31:37] so there's [3:31:38] a number of ways [3:31:38] in which [3:31:39] there's not been [3:31:40] even a shred [3:31:41] of adequate attention [3:31:42] I'm going to ask [3:31:43] you this [3:31:44] when I read [3:31:45] an article [3:31:46] on whatever [3:31:47] under the sun [3:31:47] they will cite [3:31:49] SPLC [3:31:51] as the arbiter [3:31:53] of whether [3:31:54] it is a hate [3:31:55] group or not [3:31:55] despite the fact [3:31:56] that everybody [3:31:57] would say [3:31:57] it's not a hate [3:31:58] group [3:31:59] why does the [3:32:00] mainstream media [3:32:01] and they have [3:32:01] to know better [3:32:02] intentionally [3:32:03] keep citing [3:32:04] SPLC [3:32:05] as some [3:32:06] you know [3:32:07] all-knowing [3:32:08] organization [3:32:09] why would [3:32:09] if you were [3:32:10] the New York Times [3:32:10] you cared at all [3:32:11] about your reputation [3:32:12] why would [3:32:13] you continue [3:32:14] to cite them [3:32:14] the mainstream [3:32:16] media congressman [3:32:17] has a well-known [3:32:18] leftward bias [3:32:19] I suspect [3:32:20] it's because [3:32:21] they agree [3:32:22] with the SPLC's [3:32:23] political agenda [3:32:24] yeah it's all [3:32:25] about politics [3:32:26] the gentleman [3:32:26] yields back [3:32:27] the gentleman [3:32:27] from Texas [3:32:28] is recognized [3:32:28] thank you [3:32:30] Mr. Chairman [3:32:30] and thank you [3:32:31] for letting us [3:32:33] stay a little late [3:32:34] so that I can [3:32:35] go here [3:32:35] I appreciate it [3:32:36] and thank you [3:32:36] to the witnesses [3:32:37] for taking the time [3:32:38] Professor McCord [3:32:39] Mr. Banger [3:32:39] Dr. King [3:32:40] and Mr. Fair [3:32:42] I really appreciate [3:32:43] y'all [3:32:43] taking the time [3:32:44] to be here [3:32:45] Mr. Fair [3:32:45] do you recognize [3:32:47] the tattoo [3:32:48] on this man's chest [3:32:49] this is Secretary [3:32:51] Hegseth [3:32:51] no [3:32:54] it's a tattoo [3:32:56] of the Jerusalem [3:32:57] cross [3:32:58] your organization [3:32:59] has referred to it [3:33:01] as essentially [3:33:02] a hate image [3:33:04] do you agree [3:33:05] with that assessment [3:33:06] I'd have to [3:33:09] see the assessment [3:33:10] in our material [3:33:11] to determine [3:33:12] referred to it [3:33:13] as a hate [3:33:14] I'm not familiar [3:33:14] with the symbol [3:33:15] you're not familiar [3:33:16] do you have any [3:33:16] thoughts on that [3:33:17] symbol [3:33:17] on that tattoo [3:33:18] no I don't [3:33:19] no none at all [3:33:20] you don't have [3:33:21] any opinion on it [3:33:22] no I don't [3:33:24] okay [3:33:25] what about this tattoo [3:33:27] do you have an opinion [3:33:28] on this tattoo [3:33:29] I'm not an expert [3:33:32] on tattoos [3:33:33] no I don't [3:33:34] okay [3:33:34] I can give you [3:33:35] a little bit [3:33:35] of background [3:33:36] this is a tattoo [3:33:37] on main [3:33:39] Democrat [3:33:39] Senate candidate [3:33:40] Grand Platner's [3:33:41] chest [3:33:42] that's the Nazi [3:33:43] SS [3:33:44] death head [3:33:45] tattoo [3:33:46] do you have [3:33:47] any opinions [3:33:48] on that [3:33:48] if it's what [3:33:53] you say [3:33:53] if it's a Nazi [3:33:54] symbol [3:33:55] we oppose [3:33:59] Nazis [3:33:59] we oppose [3:34:01] I agree [3:34:02] we do oppose [3:34:02] Nazis [3:34:03] do you think [3:34:03] if somebody [3:34:04] got a Nazi [3:34:06] tattoo on their [3:34:07] chest [3:34:07] that's indicative [3:34:08] that they might [3:34:09] be a Nazi [3:34:10] you'd have to ask [3:34:12] Mr. Platner [3:34:14] why he has [3:34:15] that symbol [3:34:15] I've already said [3:34:16] that if it is [3:34:17] a symbol of [3:34:18] Nazism [3:34:18] we oppose [3:34:19] Nazis [3:34:20] you don't think [3:34:20] that that's [3:34:21] indicative [3:34:21] that perhaps [3:34:22] he holds [3:34:23] Nazi sentiments [3:34:24] it may well [3:34:25] be [3:34:25] it may well [3:34:26] be [3:34:26] I think [3:34:27] do people [3:34:28] who aren't [3:34:28] Nazis [3:34:29] normally get [3:34:30] Nazi tattoos [3:34:30] on their chest [3:34:31] again [3:34:33] I assume [3:34:35] they don't [3:34:35] you assume [3:34:36] they don't [3:34:37] I would assume [3:34:38] so too [3:34:39] I don't know [3:34:39] anybody who's [3:34:40] not a Nazi [3:34:41] I don't know [3:34:42] anybody who [3:34:43] has a Nazi [3:34:44] tattoo on their [3:34:45] chest [3:34:46] but is not [3:34:46] a Nazi [3:34:47] do you [3:34:48] do you think [3:34:54] that somebody [3:34:54] who has a Nazi [3:34:55] tattoo on their [3:34:56] chest should [3:34:56] serve in the [3:34:57] United States [3:34:57] Senate [3:34:58] I wouldn't [3:35:02] vote for that [3:35:03] person [3:35:03] I serve [3:35:04] I certainly [3:35:05] wouldn't either [3:35:06] do you think [3:35:08] that this [3:35:09] should disqualify [3:35:10] him politically [3:35:11] from serving [3:35:12] in the Senate [3:35:12] again I'm not [3:35:15] sure where the [3:35:16] line of questions [3:35:17] is going [3:35:18] the SPLC [3:35:19] if you're asking [3:35:20] me I'm sorry [3:35:21] go ahead [3:35:21] if you're asking [3:35:22] me if the SPLC [3:35:23] opposes Nazis [3:35:25] and Nazi symbols [3:35:26] the answer is [3:35:28] yes [3:35:28] yep the SPLC [3:35:29] is referred to [3:35:31] this same tattoo [3:35:32] as a racist [3:35:34] skinhead symbol [3:35:36] and tattoo [3:35:36] you can see [3:35:37] the resemblance [3:35:38] there [3:35:39] you wouldn't [3:35:40] want somebody [3:35:41] with a tattoo [3:35:41] like that [3:35:42] in the Senate [3:35:42] no I wouldn't [3:35:46] I wouldn't [3:35:46] either [3:35:47] I appreciate [3:35:49] your candor [3:35:50] there [3:35:50] got a couple [3:35:53] other questions [3:35:54] shifting gears [3:35:56] a little bit [3:35:57] your organization [3:35:58] said that [3:36:01] restricting [3:36:02] and banning [3:36:02] abortion [3:36:03] is a tool [3:36:04] that the far [3:36:05] right uses [3:36:05] to maintain [3:36:06] white supremacy [3:36:07] do you believe [3:36:08] that pro-lifers [3:36:09] are white supremacists [3:36:11] I believe that [3:36:14] reproductive liberty [3:36:16] is [3:36:17] no do you believe [3:36:18] that pro-lifers [3:36:19] are white supremacists [3:36:20] I will tell you [3:36:21] what I believe [3:36:22] if you're asking [3:36:22] yes or no [3:36:23] I can't answer [3:36:24] that question [3:36:25] yes or no [3:36:25] I don't think [3:36:26] that pro-lifers [3:36:26] are white supremacists [3:36:27] do you [3:36:28] what I think [3:36:31] is that [3:36:31] reproductive liberty [3:36:33] is a right [3:36:34] that every woman [3:36:35] should enjoy [3:36:35] how many babies [3:36:37] in the United States [3:36:38] that are aborted [3:36:38] are black [3:36:39] about 40% [3:36:43] of abortions [3:36:45] nationwide [3:36:45] of black babies [3:36:47] blacks represent [3:36:48] about 13% [3:36:49] of the population [3:36:50] does that sound [3:36:50] like something [3:36:52] a white supremacist [3:36:53] would oppose [3:36:53] what I would say [3:36:58] again is that [3:36:59] SPLC supports [3:37:00] reproductive liberty [3:37:01] calling somebody [3:37:02] a white supremacist [3:37:03] is a pretty serious [3:37:04] charge isn't it [3:37:05] I mean I would think [3:37:06] you would be able [3:37:07] to defend that [3:37:08] if your organization [3:37:08] says that [3:37:09] you clearly seem [3:37:11] unable to [3:37:11] Mr. Gill [3:37:13] I'm not sure [3:37:14] why you would think [3:37:15] I'm able to do [3:37:16] anything [3:37:16] because you're the [3:37:17] president of the SPLC [3:37:18] which labels [3:37:19] pro-lifers [3:37:20] as racists [3:37:22] well [3:37:22] does your organization [3:37:24] just hurl around [3:37:25] epithets like that [3:37:26] without any justification [3:37:27] Mr. Gill [3:37:27] what we do [3:37:28] I'm giving you [3:37:29] the opportunity [3:37:30] Mr. Chairman [3:37:31] what's he referring to [3:37:32] and can he let [3:37:33] the witness [3:37:34] answer the question [3:37:34] this is outrageous [3:37:35] allow him to speak [3:37:37] what are you referring to [3:37:39] I know you don't like [3:37:40] my question [3:37:40] what are you referring to [3:37:42] Mr. Gill [3:37:42] time belongs [3:37:42] to the gentleman [3:37:43] from Texas [3:37:44] it's now expired [3:37:45] but he will be able [3:37:46] to ask his last question [3:37:47] and we'll give the witness [3:37:48] a chance to respond [3:37:49] I'll give my last question [3:37:50] to Dr. King [3:37:51] Dr. King [3:37:52] are pro-lifers [3:37:54] white supremacists [3:37:55] pro-lifers cannot be [3:37:58] white supremacists [3:38:00] pro-lifers believe [3:38:01] in life from the womb [3:38:03] to the tomb [3:38:04] and beyond [3:38:05] pro-lifers fight [3:38:06] for every baby [3:38:07] in the womb [3:38:08] regardless of skin color [3:38:10] we have been aborted [3:38:12] as blacks [3:38:13] in America [3:38:14] disproportionately [3:38:15] and so [3:38:16] the white supremacists [3:38:18] are Planned Parenthood [3:38:20] who admitted [3:38:20] that they do have [3:38:22] races underpending [3:38:24] with an agenda [3:38:25] to reduce the black [3:38:26] population [3:38:27] by abortion [3:38:28] thank you Dr. King [3:38:31] thank you [3:38:31] thank you [3:38:32] thank you all [3:38:33] we appreciate you being here [3:38:35] we appreciate that [3:38:36] long time you've been here [3:38:37] but thank you for [3:38:38] participating [3:38:39] and that [3:38:40] let me read something here [3:38:42] we thank our witness [3:38:43] without objection [3:38:43] all members will have [3:38:44] five legislative days [3:38:45] to submit additional [3:38:46] written questions [3:38:47] for the witnesses [3:38:47] or additional materials [3:38:48] for the record [3:38:48] without objection [3:38:49] the hearing is adjourned [3:38:50] could I just introduce [3:38:51] one last you see [3:38:52] this is from the nation [3:38:53] the long history [3:38:54] of the anti-abortion [3:38:55] movement's links [3:38:55] to white supremacists