Hegseth CRACKS during CROSS-EXAMINATION over WAR

[0:00] Today, for the first time since the U.S. went to war with Iran, Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth [0:05] faced sharp questions from Congress. During the hearing, the Pentagon revealed that the war so [0:10] far has cost $25 billion. The fighting is on hold, but the military maintains its blockade [0:17] of the Strait of Hormuz. And PBS NewsHour has learned one of the aircraft carriers currently [0:22] in the region, the USS Gerald R. Ford, will soon head home after a record-setting 10 months at sea. [0:29] Nick Schifrin reports on a contentious hearing and a partisan divide over the war. [0:34] After two months of fighting in the Middle East, the theater of war today was Capitol Hill [0:42] and a partisan fight over Iran. Stop. Based on the intel. Stop. Reclaiming my time. [0:48] Because you yell doesn't make you right. Hey guys, Dr. John is here, so this has just happened. [0:52] Pete Hegseth's congressional hearing was a disaster. He flailed, yelled, and dodged questions throughout, [0:58] coming across not as a confident Defense Secretary, but as a cornered man with no answers. [1:04] While lawmakers methodically expose the chaos he's brought to the Pentagon. [1:08] The first devastating exchange came when Democratic Congressman Carbajal took the microphone and [1:14] systematically walked Hegseth through a cross-examination that laid bare just how far [1:20] out of his depth the Secretary truly is. [1:23] Mr. Hegseth, I stand by what I said last time you were here. You were incompetent then, [1:31] you're incompetent now, and you're the gift that keeps on giving when it comes to incompetence. [1:36] With that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back. [1:38] Gentlemen, yield back. [1:39] Other than that, I'm doing great. Thank you. [1:41] There was no gentle warm-up, no softball question to ease into the proceedings. [1:45] Carbajal went straight for the jugular, forcing Hegseth to confront the gaping chasm between [1:51] the administration's triumphant rhetoric and the bloody, chaotic reality on the ground [1:56] in Iran. [1:57] The Defense Secretary, who had spent weeks painting a picture of swift and decisive victory, [2:02] suddenly found himself unable to explain basic facts about the conflict he was supposed [2:07] to be managing. [2:08] The confidence that usually drips from his public statements evaporated, replaced by a defensive, [2:13] almost frantic energy that would become the defining theme of the entire day. [2:18] Then Congresswoman Houlihan stepped up and things got even worse. [2:21] So I will move on, sir, and I'm going to reclaim my time. [2:25] General George, let's talk about a guy who's a patriot, somebody who every single person here [2:30] in this dais and down there in that audience and out there in this world has huge admiration [2:35] for. [2:36] Why did he get fired? [2:40] Well, as with any moves we make with general officers, first of all, I thank them for their [2:45] service, and ultimately... [2:47] My impression is you thanked him by a text or a phone call. [2:50] You didn't even do it to his face. [2:52] Out of respect for these officers, we never talk about the nature of their removal, but [2:56] every one of them, including myself, knows that they serve at the pleasure of the president. [2:59] So why did you fire him? [3:01] Ultimately, out of respect to these officers, we don't reveal it. [3:03] However, I will note, it's very difficult to change the culture of a department that has [3:07] been destroyed by the wrong perspectives. [3:09] So you said General George destroyed a culture? [3:11] There are many... [3:13] We've gotten rid of many general officers in this administration because we need new [3:18] leadership. [3:18] You have no way of explaining why you fired one of the most decorated and remarkable men [3:22] who's ever served in the nation. [3:22] We needed new leadership. [3:24] And so your answer is a very immature way of responding to my request. [3:29] Her line of questioning was brutally simple, the kind of question that any competent defense [3:33] secretary should be able to answer without hesitation. [3:36] The war in Iran, she pointed out, has been raging for 60 days. [3:39] The administration has repeatedly signaled that major operations are winding down, that [3:44] the mission is essentially accomplished, that the forces of freedom have once again triumphed. [3:50] And yet, she observed, it is abundantly clear that the conflict is nowhere near finished. [3:55] American troops remain in harm's way. [3:57] The enemy has not surrendered. [3:59] The objectives that supposedly justified this catastrophic adventure remain unmet. [4:04] So her question was direct and unavoidable. [4:07] How many more months would be required to conclude operations successfully? [4:11] And how many more billions of dollars would the Pentagon be asking Congress to extract from [4:15] the American taxpayer to fund this endless quagmire? [4:19] Despite the fact that your recent comments indicate that operations appear to be finished, [4:24] there clearly is more work that needs to be done. [4:27] As mentioned, today is indeed 60 days. [4:29] So, Mr. Secretary, how many more months, just order of magnitude, do you think that you're [4:34] going to need to be able to conclude operations successfully? [4:37] And how many more billions of dollars do you think you're going to ask this body for? [4:43] Well, as you know, and as the president has stated, you would never tell your adversary, [4:48] especially once you've... [4:48] Sir, I recognize that is the line that you always... [4:50] Especially once you've... [4:50] ...give me an order of magnitude... [4:51] ...decimated their military and you control their strait... [4:53] ...3X, 4X... [4:54] ...how long you would be committed to the mission. [4:56] What came next was not an answer. [4:58] It was a masterclass in evasion. [5:01] Hegseth leaned into the same tired deflection that every failing military leader reaches for [5:06] when they cannot justify their failure. [5:09] He insisted that revealing a timeline would be irresponsible, that the enemy was listening, [5:14] that operational security demanded silence. [5:17] But Houlihan had heard that line before, had heard it repeated in every hearing where officials [5:22] wanted to avoid admitting that they had no plan, no exit strategy, no coherent vision for [5:28] what victory even meant. [5:30] She pressed harder, and Hegseth's voice rose in volume as his answers grew thinner in substance. [5:36] The disconnect between the administration's victory lap rhetoric and the secretary's inability [5:40] to articulate a path to actual victory was so glaring that it seemed to hang in the air [5:45] like smoke after a fire. [5:47] Congressman Vindman, a veteran who understands warfare at a visceral level that Hegseth can [5:52] only pretend to, took his turn and delivered a blow that cut straight to the heart of the [5:57] administration's legitimacy. [5:58] For President Trump, overwhelmingly, they voted for that position. [6:01] But the president ordered the strike. [6:03] Is that correct? [6:04] Which strike are you referring to? [6:06] The strike on Iran, the war that we're in. [6:08] Oh, of course. [6:09] I mean, he's the commander in chief. [6:10] He's made the calls. [6:12] It sounds like you're blaming daddy for the mess we're in, and I don't think he's going [6:16] to be particularly happy with you. [6:17] I see what you're trying to do. [6:19] There's no daylight in this administration on this campaign, and I'm happy to stand [6:24] shoulder to shoulder with this administration. [6:25] You're reclaiming my time. [6:26] He reminded Hegseth of the secretary's own opening statement, in which Hegseth had claimed [6:31] that the American people voted for this war, that the public had somehow endorsed the chaos [6:37] and death and destruction that has followed. [6:40] Vindman asked, with the kind of quiet intensity that is far more devastating than shouting, whether [6:45] Hegseth truly believed that the voters who went to the polls understood they were casting [6:50] ballots for a catastrophic military adventure in the Middle East. [6:54] And so I just want to kind of give you the state of play right now. [6:58] It's been two months of war. [7:00] We have hopes for a resolution, but the war continues, really. [7:04] Iran has closed the strait, and we've now gone in and blockaded their ports. [7:09] One-fifth of the world's oil is unable to transit the strait. [7:14] And the American people and the department are paying significantly more. [7:20] And you also said that this is what the American people actually voted for. [7:25] But actually, the American people voted for a promise not to get into Middle Eastern wars. [7:33] And they voted for lower prices. [7:35] And this is the exact opposite of what they got. [7:38] So let me ask you this. [7:41] The president ordered the strike. [7:42] Is that correct? [7:43] The president's been saying for over 30 years that Iran can never have a nuclear weapon. [7:49] So he's been very clear as a position. [7:51] When the American people voted for President Trump overwhelmingly, they voted for that position. [7:54] But the president ordered the strike. [7:57] Is that correct? [7:58] The question hung there, unanswered, in any meaningful way. [8:01] Because the truth is that no one voted for this. [8:04] No one asked for six dead soldiers and hundreds wounded. [8:07] No one requested a blockade of the strait of Hormuz that would send the global economy into a tailspin. [8:12] The American people voted for a lot of things. [8:14] But they did not vote to be led into a disaster by a secretary of defense who cannot explain what he is doing or why. [8:21] Congresswoman Goodlander then took the proceedings into even more treacherous territory. [8:25] Her question was a matter of fundamental American legal principle. [8:29] The kind of thing that every service member learns in basic training and every civilian leader should have internalized long before they ever set foot in the Pentagon. [8:39] She asked Hegseth whether he agreed with the statement that the military should not follow unlawful orders. [8:45] This is not a trick question. [8:46] This is not a partisan trap. [8:48] This is the bedrock of the American military tradition. [8:51] The principle that separates a professional armed force from a band of thugs. [8:56] A soldier follows lawful orders. [8:58] A soldier does not follow unlawful orders. [9:01] That is the oath. [9:02] That is the law. [9:03] That is the covenant between those who serve and the nation they protect. [9:07] Hegseth's response was revealing in ways he almost certainly did not intend. [9:12] He agreed with the statement because what else could he do? [9:15] But then he immediately accused Goodlander of making a partisan point, of insinuating something dark about the commander-in-chief. [9:22] She was not insinuating. [9:24] She was quoting Hegseth himself from a statement he had made years earlier. [9:28] And she was asking him to affirm on the record, in front of Congress and the American people, that the principle still applied. [9:35] Hegseth squirmed. [9:36] He deflected. [9:37] He tried to paint a simple question about the rule of law as a political attack. [9:41] The moment was clarifying. [9:43] A secretary of defense who cannot comfortably and unequivocally affirm that the military must refuse unlawful orders is a secretary of defense who is either confused about the law or afraid of what his boss might think about the law. [9:56] Neither possibility is reassuring. [9:58] Congressman Moulton, a Marine Corps veteran who has seen actual combat, took the microphone and things escalated dramatically. [10:05] He raised a statement that Hegseth had made at a press conference. [10:08] A statement that had alarmed legal experts and military professionals when it was first uttered and that had only grown more disturbing with time. [10:15] Hegseth had said that the United States would give the enemy no quarter and no mercy. [10:19] The phrase no quarter is not just a colorful expression of toughness. [10:24] It is a specific term with a specific meaning under the laws of armed conflict. [10:28] Giving no quarter means refusing to accept surrender. [10:31] It means killing enemy combatants who are trying to lay down their arms. [10:35] It is, unequivocally and without exception, a war crime. [10:39] The Geneva Conventions are crystal clear on this point. [10:42] Moulton asked Hegseth, directly and repeatedly, whether he stood by that statement. [10:47] Whether he understood that he had essentially advocated for murder. [10:50] Whether he was prepared to explain to the families of American service members that their loved ones were being ordered to commit atrocities. [10:58] Hegseth's response was a jumble of empty slogans about fighting to win and giving troops the tools they need. [11:04] He would not answer the question. [11:05] He could not answer the question. [11:07] Because answering honestly would mean admitting that he had advocated for a war crime. [11:11] And walking it back would mean admitting that he did not know what he was talking about when he said it. [11:16] Moulton pressed harder, forcing Hegseth to confront the horrific implications of his own words. [11:21] And Hegseth simply crumbled, retreating into evasion and bluster. [11:24] A man who had been so eager to call Democratic members of Congress seditious for reminding troops to follow the law, [11:31] now found himself unable to explain why he had told those same troops to commit murder. [11:36] Congressman De Lucio, another veteran, picked up the same thread and pulled it even tighter. [11:41] He asked Hegseth, as plainly as language allows, what a soldier should do when an enemy combatant surrenders. [11:49] Should that soldier accept the surrender as the law requires? [11:52] Or should the soldier provide no quarter and kill the prisoner? [11:56] Hegseth danced around the question like a man walking through a minefield blindfolded. [12:00] He talked about rules of engagement and giving commanders flexibility. [12:04] He would not say the simple obvious words that every American service member knows by heart. [12:08] You accept surrender. You do not kill prisoners. You follow the law of war. [12:13] The fact that the Secretary of Defense could not bring himself to say these words in public under oath before the House Armed Services Committee [12:20] is a disgrace that will linger long after this hearing fades from the news cycle. [12:25] Congressman Ryan then delivered perhaps the most emotionally devastating sequence of the entire hearing. [12:30] He read aloud from the accounts of survivors of an attack on American positions, [12:34] an attack that killed six American soldiers. [12:37] These soldiers, according to the testimony that has emerged, [12:40] were stationed at a base that had virtually no meaningful defenses, [12:44] no counter-drone systems, no counter-rocket artillery, no counter-mortar capabilities, [12:49] not even the basic overhead protection that Ryan and Hegseth both had when they served in Iraq decades earlier. [12:55] The survivors had described the base's defensive posture as essentially non-existent. [12:59] They said they were unprepared to provide any defense for themselves. [13:02] They said the position was not fortified. [13:05] And they said that Hegseth, standing at the Pentagon podium the day after the attack, [13:09] had lied to the American people about what happened. [13:12] Hegseth had called the deadly strike a squirter that somehow squeaked through fortified defenses. [13:17] The survivors, the men who watched their comrades die because those defenses did not exist, [13:22] called that characterization a falsehood. [13:25] Ryan read their words into the record, his voice tight with barely contained fury. [13:29] He asked Hegseth whether he was calling these soldiers, these American heroes who survived a massacre, [13:34] liars, and Hegseth exploded. [13:37] He shouted over Ryan, his voice cracking with indignation, [13:40] accusing the congressman of playing games, of monologuing falsehoods, [13:44] of failing to see the larger strategic picture. [13:47] Ryan stopped him cold. [13:48] Just because you yell does not make you right. [13:51] The line landed like a thunderclap. [13:53] Hegseth kept shouting, trying to reclaim the momentum, but Ryan would not yield. [13:57] He told Hegseth that the soldiers who survived that attack, [14:01] the ones who came forward to tell the truth about what happened, [14:04] were braver than the Secretary of Defense, [14:06] and he repeated the demand that has been echoing through the Capitol for months. [14:10] Resign. [14:11] Secretary Hegseth, those soldiers told the truth. [14:13] Those soldiers are braver than you are. [14:15] They are asking for accountability. [14:17] They deserve accountability. [14:18] And I am asking for the same, starting with you. [14:21] You need to resign immediately. [14:23] Congressman Deluzio returned to this theme, [14:25] quoting directly from the survivors' accounts that had been reported by CBS. [14:29] The soldiers had said they were moved closer to Iran, [14:32] to a deeply unsafe area that was a known target. [14:35] They had said the unit was unprepared to provide any defense for itself. [14:39] Hegseth's own spokesperson, Sean Parnell, [14:41] had responded to this reporting by calling it untrue, [14:44] effectively branding the survivors as fabricators. [14:47] Deluzio asked Hegseth whether he agreed with his spokesperson. [14:50] Was he calling these soldiers liars? [14:52] Hegseth erupted again, accusing Deluzio of disparaging him, [14:56] of suggesting he did not care about the troops. [14:58] Nobody cares more about the fate of our troops, he insisted, [15:01] his voice rising to a near scream. [15:03] Deluzio calmly noted that asking a simple question was not disparaging anyone, [15:08] and Hegseth's inability to answer that simple question spoke volumes. [15:12] The chairman had to intervene to restore order, [15:14] reminding everyone that the congressman controlled the time, [15:17] and the secretary needed to answer the question. [15:20] Hegseth never did. [15:21] Congressman Smith, the ranking member of the committee, [15:24] then extracted a piece of information that the Pentagon had been withholding for weeks. [15:29] The cost of the war in Iran, [15:30] the price tag that American taxpayers are being forced to pay for this catastrophic adventure, [15:35] has reached approximately $25 billion. [15:38] Smith had been asking for this number for what he described as a hell of a long time, [15:42] and the Pentagon had consistently stonewalled. [15:45] Now, under oath and under pressure, Hegseth finally admitted it. [15:49] $25 billion, and that number is almost certainly an underestimate. [15:54] It covers munitions expended, operations and maintenance, and equipment replacement, [15:58] but it does not capture the full economic toll, the destroyed aircraft, the lost lives, [16:04] the long-term costs of caring for wounded veterans, [16:07] the economic disruption caused by the closure of critical shipping lanes. [16:11] The admission was a bombshell, and it opened the door to an even more devastating line of questioning. [16:17] Smith then pivoted to the fundamental justification for the war. [16:21] The administration had insisted that Iran's nuclear program posed an imminent threat, [16:26] that the strikes were necessary to prevent a nuclear-armed Iran, [16:30] that there was simply no time to wait. [16:32] Hegseth had claimed earlier in the hearing that Iran's nuclear facilities were obliterated, [16:37] completely destroyed, reduced to rubble. [16:39] But if that were true, Smith pointed out, then the imminent threat had been neutralized. [16:44] So why was the war continuing? [16:46] Why were American troops still dying? [16:48] Why was the Strait of Hormuz still blockaded? [16:50] Hegseth tried to pivot, claiming that Iran still had nuclear ambitions, [16:54] that their conventional missile shield needed to be dismantled, [16:57] that the threat was ongoing. [16:59] Smith would not let him escape so easily. [17:02] He noted that the strategy Hegseth was describing sounded an awful lot like the North Korea strategy, [17:07] a strategy that had allowed Pyongyang to slow-walk its way to a nuclear arsenal [17:11] while hiding behind conventional capabilities. [17:14] That strategy had failed spectacularly. [17:16] North Korea now boasts of producing nuclear warheads at an alarming rate, [17:21] building what may soon be one of the largest nuclear arsenals on the planet. [17:24] And the man who negotiated that failed strategy, [17:27] who exchanged love letters with Kim Jong-un and accomplished nothing, [17:31] was the same man now insisting that the Iran war was a brilliant success. [17:35] Congresswoman Jacobs took the microphone and delivered a summation so devastating [17:40] that it seemed to physically deflate Hegseth. [17:43] She noted that 13 American troops were dead. [17:46] More than 380 were wounded. [17:48] The Strait of Hormuz was closed despite a supposed ceasefire. [17:51] Iranian leadership was still in power. [17:53] Nuclear material was still unaccounted for. [17:56] And the war was costing billions with no end in sight. [17:59] She looked at Hegseth and said that if he genuinely believed this was what winning looked like, [18:04] then perhaps the committee should be questioning his mental stability. [18:07] Perhaps, she suggested, the president should think about replacing him. [18:11] The silence that followed was deafening. [18:13] Congressman Khanna pressed Hegseth on the economic cost of the war to ordinary Americans. [18:18] He asked about the price of gas, the price of food, the $5,000 per year, [18:23] that experts estimate this conflict is costing every American household. [18:27] Hegseth dismissed the question as a gotcha, [18:30] as if asking how much a war costs was some kind of cheap rhetorical trick. [18:34] Khanna's response was blistering. [18:36] He told Hegseth to go ask the Americans who cannot afford gas, [18:40] who cannot afford groceries, [18:41] whose homes are about to be foreclosed, [18:43] who may be facing eviction, [18:45] whether they think the cost of this war is a gotcha question. [18:49] Hegseth had no response. [18:50] He simply did not know the answer, [18:52] had not done the analysis, [18:53] had not bothered to calculate what his war was costing [18:56] the people he is supposed to serve. [18:58] The questioning about the removal of General Randy George [19:01] was another unmitigated disaster. [19:04] Congresswoman Strickland asked why the beloved four-star Army Chief of Staff [19:07] had been fired in the middle of an active conflict. [19:10] General George had served for four decades, [19:13] had commanded at every level, [19:15] was widely respected across the force. [19:17] His removal during wartime, [19:19] when leadership continuity is most critical, [19:21] demanded an explanation. [19:22] Strickland asked whether George was removed [19:25] because he presented a national security risk, [19:28] a mission risk, [19:29] or a leadership concern. [19:30] Or was he removed because he challenged [19:32] some of the decisions being made at the political level? [19:34] Hegseth refused to answer, [19:36] hiding behind a policy of not discussing personnel matters. [19:40] Strickland pressed. [19:41] Hegseth tried to flip the question, [19:43] asking her where General George fell [19:45] in the operational chain of command. [19:47] It was a transparent attempt to change the subject, [19:50] and Strickland was not having it. [19:51] She reclaimed her time, [19:53] leaving Hegseth exposed, [19:54] unable to justify a major personnel decision made [19:58] at the worst possible moment. [19:59] Congresswoman Jacobs asked about the president's [20:02] increasingly unhinged social media posts, [20:05] the ones that have alarmed even prominent conservative voices. [20:08] Marjorie Taylor Greene had called the president out of control. [20:12] Candace Owens had suggested the 25th Amendment, [20:15] Megan Kelly, Tucker Carlson, Alex Jones, [20:17] Stephanie Grisham. [20:19] The list of concerned voices spanned the political spectrum. [20:22] Jacobs wanted to know how Hegseth explained to his troops [20:25] that their commander-in-chief was posting manifestly unstable content [20:29] while they were in harm's way. [20:31] Hegseth's response was to invoke Joe Biden, [20:33] a man who is no longer president, [20:35] a man whose alleged failings do absolutely nothing [20:38] to answer the question about the current commander-in-chief's [20:41] fitness for office. [20:42] Jacobs did not let him escape. [20:44] She asked about a specific post [20:46] that many Christians found deeply offensive. [20:48] Hegseth said he was not there to explain posts. [20:51] He was there for a budget hearing. [20:53] Jacobs reminded him that the mental stability [20:55] of the commander-in-chief is deeply important to the troops [20:58] and to the country, [21:00] and that when Democrats had concerns [21:01] about their own nominee's fitness, they took action. [21:04] She encouraged Republicans to find the same courage. [21:07] The final devastating sequence came [21:09] when Congresswoman Strickland returned to questioning [21:12] about the Kid Rock helicopter scandal. [21:14] An investigation had been launched [21:16] by the 101st Combat Aviation Brigade [21:19] into the use of Apache helicopters [21:21] to ferry a celebrity musician around [21:23] on what appeared to be joy rides. [21:26] Before the investigation could be completed, [21:28] Hegseth personally terminated it via social media post. [21:31] Strickland asked whether the president [21:33] had been consulted before that decision. [21:36] Hegseth's refusal to answer made it clear [21:39] that the president had indeed been involved, [21:41] meaning the commander-in-chief himself [21:43] had overruled the leadership [21:45] of the storied 101st Airborne [21:47] to protect a political ally from accountability. [21:50] The implications of that revelation are staggering. [21:53] A chain of command corrupted from the very top [21:56] and a secretary of defense [21:57] who could not summon the courage [21:58] to defend the principle of accountability under oath. [22:02] By the time the hearing concluded, [22:03] the picture was complete. [22:05] The defense secretary had been exposed [22:07] as a man who cannot answer basic questions [22:10] about the war he is managing, [22:12] who cannot articulate a strategy for victory [22:14] or even a definition of what victory means, [22:17] who advocates for war crimes [22:19] and then refuses to clarify whether he meant it, [22:22] who lies to the American people [22:24] about the circumstances of their sons and daughters [22:26] dying in combat, [22:27] who fires respected military leaders [22:29] without explanation during wartime, [22:32] who personally terminates investigations [22:34] to protect favored insiders, [22:35] and who responds to legitimate oversight [22:38] with shouting, deflection, and empty slogans. [22:40] This is not leadership. [22:41] This is not competence. [22:43] This is a man cracking under the weight of a job [22:45] he was never remotely qualified to hold. [22:47] And the cracks are spreading faster [22:49] than anyone can patch them.