HEATED Cross Examination of Sled Agent Peter Rudofski by Alex Murdaugh Defense Lawyer

[00:00:00] Speaker 1: Good afternoon, Agent Rudolfs. Did I say that right? [00:00:07] Agent Rudolfs: Yep. Sounds good to me. [00:00:10] Speaker 1: Let's start first with the GM data that recently came in. I think that may have made things a little more clear, right? We don't really need to look at a lot of those cell phone power plots now that we have the exact position of the car, do we? [00:00:23] Agent Rudolfs: I agree, yeah. The GM data is pretty clear. [00:00:27] Speaker 1: Really, at first you did an analysis of driving to and from the office in Hampton in the middle of the day. Not too interested in that, but let's skip to the drive from Moselle to Alameda. Okay. How long was that drive? How long did it take him from start to finish? [00:00:46] Agent Rudolfs: So I'd have to look back to drive. So you're referring to the 9-0-6 time? [00:00:55] Speaker 1: Yes, sir. [00:00:55] Agent Rudolfs: So it looks like 9-0-7. [00:01:08] Speaker ?: Okay. Okay. So we're going to take a look at the 9-0-7. Okay. So we're going to take a look at the right. We're going to take a look at the drive. We're going to take a look at the drive. We're going to take a look at the drive. We're going to take a look at the drive. We're going to take a look at the drive. We're going to take a look at the drive. We're going to take a look at the drive. We're going to take a look at the drive. We're going to take a look at the drive. We're going to take a look at the drive. We're going to take a look at the drive. We're going to take a look at the drive. [00:01:24] Agent Rudolfs: We're going to take a look at the drive. We're going to take a look at the drive. We're going to take a look at the drive. [00:01:27] Speaker ?: We're going to take a look at the drive. [00:01:28] Speaker 1: We're going to take a look at the drive. [00:01:29] Speaker ?: We're going to take a look at the drive. [00:01:29] Speaker 1: We're going to take a look at the drive. We're going to take a look at the drive. We're going to take a look at the drive. We're going to take a look at the drive. We're going to take a look at the drive. We're going to take a look at the drive. We're going to take a look at the drive. We're going to take a look at the drive. We're going to take a look at the drive. [00:01:38] Speaker ?: We're going to take a look at the drive. [00:01:38] Speaker 1: We're going to take a look at the drive. We're going to take a look at the drive. [00:01:40] Speaker ?: We're going to take a look at the drive. We're going to take a look at the drive. We're going to take a look at the drive. We're going to take a look at the drive. [00:01:44] Agent Rudolfs: We're going to take a look at the drive. We're going to take a look at the drive. We're going to take a look at the drive. [00:01:47] Speaker ?: We're going to take a look at the drive. We're going to take a look at the drive. We're going to take a look at the drive. We're going to take a look at the drive. We're going to take a look at the drive. We're going to take a look at the drive. We're going to take a look at the drive. We're going to take a look at the drive. We're going to take a look at the drive. We're going to take a look at the drive. We're going to take a look at the drive. [00:01:58] Agent Rudolfs: We're going to take a look at the drive. We're going to take a look at the drive. We're going to take a look at the drive. We're going to take a look at the drive. [00:02:03] Speaker ?: We're going to take a look at the drive. [00:02:04] Agent Rudolfs: We're going to take a look at the drive. We're going to take a look at the drive. [00:02:06] Speaker ?: We're going to take a look at the drive. We're going to take a look at the drive. We're going to take a look at the drive. [00:02:09] Speaker 1: We're going to take a look at the drive. We're going to take a look at the drive. We're going to take a look at the drive. We're going to take a look at the drive. We're going to take a look at the drive. We're going to take a look at the drive. We're going to take a look at the drive. We're going to take a look at the drive. [00:02:17] Speaker ?: We're going to take a look at the drive. We're going to take a look at the drive. [00:02:19] Agent Rudolfs: We're going to take a look at the drive. We're going to take a look at the drive. We're going to take a look at the drive. We're going to take a look at the drive. We're going to take a look at the drive. We're going to take a look at the drive. [00:02:25] Speaker 1: We're going to take a look at the drive. We're going to take a look at the drive. We're going to take a look at the drive. We're going to take a look at the drive. We're going to take a look at the drive. We're going to take a look at the drive. We're going to take a look at the drive from Almeda to Moselle on January 3rd of this year. [00:02:35] Agent Rudolfs: That's correct. [00:02:36] Speaker 1: I was in the passenger seat of that. And how long did that take? I would have to see the data. I don't remember. You don't have that? You don't know if it was 17 minutes and 35 seconds? [00:02:47] Agent Rudolfs: If I was presented with something, it could be. But I do not have that number in front of me. [00:02:52] Speaker 1: If it were that, it would be right in between those two times that we just saw for Mr. Murdoch going back and forth, would it not? [00:03:02] Agent Rudolfs: It could, but there was different variables at the time. It was during today, wasn't it? It was. It was. [00:03:09] Speaker 1: So on this way back, there's that little 80-mile-an-hour spurt. [00:03:23] Agent Rudolfs: How long did that go on? I am unsure of that. It's just the data point is plotted. It just gives you a time stamp. It doesn't say for how long. [00:03:34] Speaker 1: In your experience, I think you talked earlier that you would respond to calls in a marked car with blue lights. Not a marked car, but a marked car with blue lights, yep. It is extremely unusual for someone who's on a straightaway in a rural road at night to give it some gas on a little burst? [00:03:56] Agent Rudolfs: A little bit of gas, but when you know it's 55 and you have deer and other environmental factors that play in it. [00:04:01] Speaker 1: Yes, but it's not that unusual, is it, for someone to give it a little gas on a straightaway in a rural road? It depends on what a little gas is. But the overall speed that he went to get from where he's going, coming from where he's going to, as far as you know, is in line with the test drive that you were in the passenger seat before? [00:04:24] Agent Rudolfs: If that is correct what you mentioned, yes. [00:04:26] Speaker 1: It's like right in between those two, actually. [00:04:29] Agent Rudolfs: Like I said, I don't have that test drive data in front of me, but. [00:04:33] Speaker 1: Well, let's move on then to when he drove past that point where Maggie's cell phone was later recovered. And I think that may start on slide 23. 23? Actually, if you go back one slide. Next slide. So let's slide 22, sorry. [00:05:00] Agent Rudolfs: 22? Okay. [00:05:05] Speaker 1: So he's going 37.2 miles an hour here? [00:05:08] Agent Rudolfs: That's correct. [00:05:09] Speaker 1: And next slide. Now he's still approaching it at 42, so he's accelerating gently. Is that fair? That's correct. Next slide. Looks like he is just past it going slightly faster than he was on the previous slide. Is that correct? That's correct. [00:05:27] Speaker ?: Next slide. [00:05:28] Speaker 1: He's continuing to, and it was a good bit down the road there at 45, but is it fair to say he's continuing a fairly gentle acceleration? I would say so, yes. So what we saw as he passed it, he did not slow down and speed up as he went past that point. He continued his same gentle acceleration? [00:05:46] Agent Rudolfs: Per the data, yes. [00:05:47] Speaker 1: And we won't go through it, but if we went down later, it goes down to the bottom of the screen. It would show that he slowed down slightly corresponding when he sent that text. Go to CMB right back. Is that accurate? I believe so, yes. Okay. We'll be done with that. I'm going to now just skip with this data all the way to when he approaches the kennel coming from the house right before he calls 911. Okay. The direction he is driving as he comes right up right before he parts, would he be illuminating the bodies of Maggie and Paul? [00:06:37] Agent Rudolfs: Per the aerial, I don't know if you want to put it on the screen so we can show, but per the aerial, it would be coming around that curve and it would illuminate at least Maggie's body. [00:06:48] Speaker 1: Would the illumination, is it going back towards that space between the barn and the kennels where Paul's body was out? [00:06:55] Agent Rudolfs: Like I said, this is just a data plot. [00:06:58] Speaker 1: But you could determine that, could you not, from just the last two points because that would show you the direction that the vehicle is pointed. [00:07:05] Agent Rudolfs: It doesn't say the vehicle's pointed that direction, it just says that's where the vehicle's at. [00:07:09] Speaker 1: But if it moved from pointing to point B, being a car, it would have to be in that direction. [00:07:12] Agent Rudolfs: Yeah, but where the final rests, I don't know which direction it's pointing. But as it's moving. As it's moving, yes, you would think it would be in that direction. [00:07:21] Speaker 1: Right, so the headlights certainly on Maggie, it would appear from the plot maybe on Paul as well. And does he park near Maggie's body? [00:07:33] Agent Rudolfs: I do not know where he parked the first time because all we have is when the deputies arrive the second time. [00:07:39] Speaker 1: On your plot? On the plot here. When he comes the first time before the 911 call, where does his vehicle stop in relation to Maggie's body? It stops before it. How close is it? I do not have a problem. [00:07:52] Speaker ?: Is it descriptive? [00:07:53] Speaker 1: Is it very close? Is it pretty much right there? [00:07:55] Agent Rudolfs: I wouldn't say it's right on top of it, but it's in the area. Very close. [00:07:57] Speaker 1: So as he's pulling up to the scene, he can certainly see one, not both bodies on the ground. And he stops right next to Maggie. Is that fair? [00:08:12] Agent Rudolfs: I'm just looking at the data provided. I was not there on scene. [00:08:18] Speaker 1: The data provided is the location of the car and the location of the body. [00:08:21] Agent Rudolfs: I don't know what he would have saw or what the car would have saw at that time. [00:08:24] Speaker 1: You don't know what would be directly in front of his car as it was moving from point to point to point? I was not out there. You don't know which direction the car would be pointing? [00:08:34] Agent Rudolfs: We know which direction the car would be pointing, but what he saw or what the final rest of the car is. [00:08:41] Speaker 1: Is the car's headlights pointing at the bodies as he's pulling up? [00:08:45] Agent Rudolfs: I cannot give a definitive answer on that because I was not there and the data I have. [00:08:50] Speaker 1: I'm asking for the data. [00:08:51] Agent Rudolfs: The data does not say. I'll finish the answer. [00:08:54] Speaker 3: You must give the witness an opportunity to respond fully. You may proceed. [00:08:58] Agent Rudolfs: There is no data that says that the headlights were pointing in a specific direction or at a specific object. I cannot answer that. [00:09:07] Speaker 1: When you say there's no data and the headlights are pointing in a specific direction. Were they not pointed along the line that would connect the last two data points before the car stops and goes in the park? [00:09:19] Agent Rudolfs: For the drive. It does not show. I mean, it could be at an angle. It's such a little dot, but does not show a vehicle in the exact position of it. So I cannot answer that. Right. [00:09:32] Speaker 1: And we're not talking about the dot. We're talking about a line connecting two dots. Okay, but you were asking about the dot. And a car moving along that line. The headlines would be pointed down the line. Correct? [00:09:47] Agent Rudolfs: Ask your question again. [00:09:48] Speaker 1: We're talking not about a point, but about a line. The car moving down the line. As it moves down that line between two points, would its headlights not be pointed in the same direction down that line? I would assume. So, he arrives at the scene, gets out, presumably, he goes in the park, and then 20 seconds later, first dial is 911. Is that your testimony? [00:10:17] Agent Rudolfs: Yep. [00:10:18] Speaker 1: So, pulling up on the scene, body's in his headlight, presumably knows something's horribly wrong, gets out, 20 seconds to the first call to 911. Is that correct? That's correct. Which was actually misdialed 911, and he had to redial it a second time, which was at 18 seconds. Correct? That's correct. Okay. So, he had 20 seconds, and I think there's maybe an implication, but that's not enough time. [00:10:45] Speaker 3: That's the former objection is sustained to the comment of council. [00:11:00] Speaker 1: Is this timer set for 20 seconds? It is. [00:11:02] Agent Rudolfs: Okay. [00:11:03] Speaker 1: When I say so, would you please press the start button? Okay. Okay. [00:11:09] Speaker ?: Now. That was 20 seconds. [00:11:10] Speaker 1: Would you agree? Per your phone, yes. [00:11:22] Speaker ?: You don't dispute the phone. I do not. I do not. If the person getting out of the car had seen the bodies already and already knew something that's horribly wrong. Do you believe that that is an unreasonably short period of time to get out of the car? [00:11:33] Speaker 1: Okay. Thank you. That was 20 seconds. Would you agree? Per your phone, yes. [00:11:38] Speaker ?: You don't dispute the phone. [00:11:39] Speaker 1: I do not. If the person getting out of the car had seen the bodies already and already knew something that's horribly wrong, do you believe that that is an unreasonably short period of time to inspect and call 9-1-1? [00:11:58] Agent Rudolfs: I'm here to testify on this data, not the hypothetical. I think you're asking the wrong person on that. [00:12:05] Speaker ?: Fair enough. [00:12:06] Speaker 1: We'll move on. I'm going to turn to your condensed timeline, which I think is a state's exhibit at 519. I'm going to ask you to turn to page 21. Okay. And towards the bottom, 9-0-6-20 seconds, it says Maggie Murdoch's iPhone sideways orientation. That is correct. Meaning that her phone at that time went to a sideways orientation? [00:12:48] Agent Rudolfs: So, between 9-0-6-12 and 9-0-6-20, from the phone experts, that it started at 9-0-6-12 and it ended at 9-0-6-20. Okay. Those two orientations. I'll ask this way. [00:13:01] Speaker 1: Okay. A second later, what would be the orientation of her phone? From? A second from what? The 20? After that, yes. At 9-0-6-21. I do not know. Well, then what does this entry mean, if it doesn't mean that it… [00:13:20] Agent Rudolfs: There's nothing that says 9-0-6-21 on here. [00:13:23] Speaker 1: Right. So, what happened at 9-0-6 in 20 seconds? [00:13:27] Agent Rudolfs: It finished its orientation change to sideways. What does that mean? So, it went from a portrait, so let me get the phone up. So, it went from portrait to sideways. And until… In those… Between the… Go ahead. I'm sorry. Between 9-0-6-12 and 9-0-6-20, that is what it's showing. That's why we have a little purple on the right-hand side to show that it's connected. It's all one big sequence. Per our phone experts that had previously testified. [00:13:59] Speaker 1: So, it would remain in portrait until the next… I'm sorry. Remain in the landscape orientation until the next change? I am unsure of that. [00:14:08] Agent Rudolfs: I'm not a phone expert. So, I am unsure of that. I just… I was given this data, and this is how it was relayed to me, and this is how I put it in this timeline. Okay. [00:14:18] Speaker 1: So, if you were to go to page 19, please. Okay. And the very last entry there, Maggie Murdoch's iPhone vertical orientation. Mm-hmm. What does that mean? [00:14:33] Agent Rudolfs: So, this was all given to me from different, you know, data sources. So, how I read this is that the phone has turned to a vertical orientation. So, I guess… I guess… [00:14:47] Speaker 1: …has turned to a vertical orientation, and… Because we have… [00:14:50] Agent Rudolfs: We have a sideways orientation, and then we have a vertical orientation. Okay. [00:14:54] Speaker 1: Just keep scanning down until you get to the next orientation change for Maggie Murdoch's phone, please. From page 19? Yes, sir. Okay. We're just looking for the next orientation change. [00:15:06] Agent Rudolfs: I believe it's going to be that now 612. Okay. And what does that say? Implements orientation change to portrait. [00:15:21] Speaker 1: But the previous change was to portrait, was it not? It says vertical orientation. So, there's no intervening orientation change. It just goes to portrait and it changes to portrait again? [00:15:36] Agent Rudolfs: That… As I read the data, yes, that's correct. Like I said, I'm not a phone expert. I was given these different pieces to plot, and this is how they've been plotted. [00:15:46] Speaker 1: When you're giving these pieces to plot, do you ever notice if things don't seem to make sense or don't match with other data? Do you alert anyone? [00:15:59] Agent Rudolfs: So, we have phone experts that review that. So, they have reviewed the data, and I do not know if that's something that they came across. [00:16:16] Speaker 1: You can't tell me with that last… Can you tell me this? The last orientation change here on page 21, is that the last change on her phone until the extraction at the sled lab? [00:16:26] Agent Rudolfs: I'd have to go through and double-check. Would you like me to do that? You may. [00:16:33] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:16:47] Agent Rudolfs: You said orientation change, correct? [00:16:48] Speaker 1: Yes, sir. [00:16:56] Speaker 4: Thank you. [00:17:26] Agent Rudolfs: Per this condensed timeline, you are correct. That would be the last orientation change that I see noted. [00:17:35] Speaker 1: I mean, that's the last one until the phone was downloaded? [00:17:40] Agent Rudolfs: I believe so. State's exhibit. The thing is, this is just the timeline, so it could be in what's already in evidence from Lieutenant Britt Dove. In this timeline, that's the only one showing. And for orientation changes, we're really only concerned for the day of, for this timeline. [00:18:03] Speaker 1: Show what's been previously admitted as defense exhibit 38. And go to the last page. This was previously admitted in evidence during the examination of Lieutenant Dove. It's a complete list of every orientation change recorded on her phone, as of the extract. Is the last one listed, the very last one, the 906 orientation change? [00:18:41] Agent Rudolfs: The 906-22 in the bottom? Yes, sir. That's correct. The 906, yep. The far, bottom column. [00:18:52] Speaker 1: Yes, we show state's exhibit 278. This was also admitted in that examination. This is a photo taken in this lead lab before the extract, actually five days before the extract. This phone is in portrait mode, is it not? [00:19:14] Agent Rudolfs: The way I read it, yes, that is portrait mode. [00:19:17] Speaker 1: So that very last orientation change we saw was to portrait mode, because there are no subsequent orientation changes. I assume so, yes. And not landscape, as it says on this. [00:19:32] Agent Rudolfs: The thing is, before this picture was taken, you have to remind yourself that, you know, SLED got the phone, and then this photo was taken at a lab. Yes. So, I don't know. I don't know what happened. People have, you know, it's been moving around, manipulated. I don't. [00:19:51] Speaker 1: But we just looked at a complete list of all the orientation changes, did we not? It wasn't time limited to a particular day. It's everything on the phone. [00:20:01] Agent Rudolfs: Like I said, I did not produce that document, so I'm going to have to go on your word on that. [00:20:05] Speaker 1: Let me ask this before we kind of move on from this. It's been stated a few times in testimony, I think you did as well, that you don't get an orientation change recorded when the screen is off. Is that correct? That is my understanding from previous testimony. Okay. So, my screen is off. If I turn it, like, to get an orientation change, and it's off, if I just stand here for a while, however long, an hour, and without moving the phone, turn the screen on, will there be an orientation change? [00:20:38] Agent Rudolfs: That is a technical question for an expert that we had up here yesterday, that I am not an expert, and I am not a phone expert. [00:20:46] Speaker 1: So, where I'm going with that is simply, you don't know yourself in preparing this timeline whether the orientation changes that you're putting on here correspond with movement of the phone at that moment. [00:20:59] Agent Rudolfs: I'm going off of data I was given from phone experts that gave me the data, and it's been put on this timeline. [00:21:15] Speaker 1: I'm going to turn now to the timeline and really focus on the timeline for Maggie Murdoch, and I'm going to skip, you know, kind of close to the time that we're... Are you still on the condensed or the full one? I'm going to be on the condensed the entire time. I'm not going to refer to the other one. And I want to start on page 17 with that group text Maggie Murdoch read that came in at 8.31, but she read it at 8.49.26. [00:21:43] Agent Rudolfs: Okay. [00:21:56] Speaker 1: And I guess the actual reading of that would be on page 19 with your reference. We'll start there. [00:22:00] Agent Rudolfs: On page 19, so? [00:22:01] Speaker 1: Yes. [00:22:02] Agent Rudolfs: Okay. [00:22:05] Speaker 1: You have some screen off on times here, but you didn't put every time the screen went on and off, did you? I do not recall. I'd have to look at what was given. So you don't know if the screen of her screen went off at 8.49.28, came back on? [00:22:21] Agent Rudolfs: Everything should be on this document. [00:22:24] Speaker 1: Okay. Did her screen go off at 8.49.28 and come back on at 8.5308? [00:22:33] Agent Rudolfs: I have a screen on at 8.49.20. And when did it go off? I do not see it on here. [00:22:52] Speaker 1: Well, let me ask it this way. Do you know whether the screen went off at 8.49.28 and came back on at 8.5308? [00:23:03] Agent Rudolfs: I do not unless I have it on here. [00:23:08] Speaker 1: And then she has steps that begin at 8.53.15, is that correct? For this document, yes. When you were looking at the step data, did you look at the corresponding distance data that goes with the step data? I was just provided the timestamp and then the steps. Are you aware that the phone, the same database, keeps distance data with the step data? I have been made aware of that. But you have not looked at any of that distance data? [00:23:37] Agent Rudolfs: I was told it's not accurate, it's not reliable, the distance, so I did not focus in on that. [00:23:44] Speaker 1: So, would you think that it is possibly, well, just as an investigator, on your spreadsheet, I won't bother to put it up, but you had a bunch of time periods where Alec had steps at different times. Do you think there would be any relevance to whether the number of feet per step and all those different increments was extremely consistent? Is there any relevance to it? Would it maybe suggest the same person was walking? [00:24:28] Speaker 3: Objections overruled. [00:24:30] Agent Rudolfs: I would have to, I didn't do the feet per step, so I'd have to see the data. [00:24:35] Speaker 1: I understand that. And the question is, would there be any relevance to an investigation to seeing that the feet per step were extremely consistent for disparate time periods in the same phone? [00:24:47] Agent Rudolfs: Like I said, this was just a tool that we used. It could be, it was not at its forward period. [00:24:53] Speaker 1: And if this time period, 8.53 with Maggie Mara's steps, to 8.55.32, if the distance covered in that time were short, meaning she was moving particularly slowly, could that have any relevance? [00:25:10] Agent Rudolfs: It depends, but that distance is, we're told, it's highly inaccurate. And everything is, you know, an estimate. So even the step, that's, you know, we're told by the phone expert, that's an estimate. That's not an exact number. The same, I would assume, for the distance. [00:25:32] Speaker 1: So you don't think, I mean, you did not check to see if the speed, the speed at which Maggie Murdoch was moving on that very last increment. The last time the phone says she was ever walking, there was no, how fast is she going? Is she running? Is she creeping? No one looked at that. [00:25:52] Speaker 3: I did not look at that, no. [00:25:55] Agent Rudolfs: I cannot say for anyone else. [00:25:57] Speaker 1: And the same question for Alec Murdoch, did anyone look for, I think you have, you know, over eight of these increments listed out, whether he was going particularly fast, unusually fast for him, unusually slow for him, the same speed he always goes, did anyone look at that? [00:26:17] Agent Rudolfs: All we have here is the data that is on that sheet. [00:26:24] Speaker 1: And you do have the step per minute, but do you have any data suggesting that within, and I'll pick one just to make the question simpler, Alec Murdoch's first, well, I'll pick an even easier one, entry number 30. [00:26:37] Agent Rudolfs: Okay. [00:26:38] Speaker 1: Which is when he's at Almeda and then part of when he's leaving Almeda, is that correct? [00:26:44] Agent Rudolfs: That's correct, based by the time. [00:26:46] Speaker 1: And it says 60 steps over almost, just a little short of 10 minutes? I believe so, yep. So, of course, it's six, slightly more than six steps per minute, which would be a step every 10 seconds. So, this time period is not saying that he's going that many steps per minute, right? It's saying he walked and then he didn't walk and then he walked. Is that fair? [00:27:09] Agent Rudolfs: It's just giving us an analysis, a general overview of, you know, our estimated steps that it gives us and then estimated steps per minute. That's all it is, it's just a general... [00:27:20] Speaker 1: Well, I'll just ask open-ended, why is this last column steps per minute here? Why are you presenting this? It's just another way to present the data. So, turning back to, I think we were on page 19. Okay. Maggie Burdahl's phone is walking. Now, we had, from previous testimony, an activation of the Siri user interface with the side button. Did you recall that from previous testimony? I do not, but it could have been. Okay. You don't recall previous testimony about that. Can we bring up Defense Exhibit 41? And there's a beginning and end. It's all the same time there in the bottom couple rows. You can see 85320. I don't know if this refreshes or if you recall, perhaps you know from experience that the Siri interface can be activated by squeezing and holding the right button on the phone. Do you know that? I believe so if you have it, you know, activated to do that. So, the phone's walking. It's in somebody's hand. Now, this is something that's not in your timeline, but again, was certainly discussed with Lieutenant Dove. You know, 85432, the screen comes on, and a couple seconds later, there's a camera access. Do you recall that? I do. Okay. And it's not on your timeline? It is not. Okay. Now, we had, that came up in testimony with both experts, and I believe, if you recall, Lieutenant Dove said he had not, that it was possible to find out what caused that, but he had not himself looked to see. That's correct. And I believe investigator Grubb said he did not know why. Is that correct? I believe so. But it's no, according to the previous testimony. That's correct. But no one's checked to see. To my knowledge, no. And after that, there's some orientation changes, and then finally, the screen goes off, I believe, for an extended, more extended period of time at 85536. Is that correct? That's correct. Now, after this period, there's nothing else that happens with her phone other than missed calls and texts, except that final orientation change. Is that accurate? [00:29:58] Agent Rudolfs: That's accurate. That's correct. [00:30:00] Speaker 1: Now, does that fact that we aren't seeing anything after 85536, does that mean that she was dead at 85536? [00:30:18] Agent Rudolfs: Like I said, this is just data that I plotted. [00:30:22] Speaker 1: So the answer is no? [00:30:24] Agent Rudolfs: I don't know the answer. It does not mean that? I have to go by the data here, and there's no activity. Right. You can take that however you want, but there's no activity. [00:30:35] Speaker 1: I mean, is it fair? This isn't trying to be tricky. If use of the phone ceases as time goes on, it's more and more likely there's something to miss, right? The first second no one's using the phone is normal. I mean, someone might easily go, even Paul might go five minutes without using his phone, but as you keep going on, it gets a little more likely something's wrong, right? Is that fair? I would say so. Okay. So it's not an immediate thing that, well, the last you wouldn't just be able to finish [00:31:07] Speaker 5: the answer he started. I apologize. [00:31:09] Speaker 1: I honestly thought he had finished. Okay, go ahead. So it wouldn't be fair to say that if the last usage was at some particular second that the person was dead that second, right? It would create an inference that would increase in strength over time that no one's using the phone, something's wrong, right? [00:31:31] Agent Rudolfs: I can't answer that. I mean, I don't have the knowledge on that. [00:31:49] Speaker 1: Do you recall in previous testimony that Special Agent Owen said with regard to Alameda and I think a blue raincoat that it would take, in his estimation, five to ten minutes to dispose of evidence and that it's already wrapped up from this. Do you recall that? I do recall. So to be consistent with the data you have here, well, let me ask this. How long with the test drives was to drive from the kennels to the main house? [00:32:20] Agent Rudolfs: I know we did various ones. I know we did various ones. I'd have to look at the data. [00:32:26] Speaker ?: We did at various speeds. [00:32:28] Agent Rudolfs: It was very short. 15 seconds? That would be a lot, I would say. [00:32:32] Speaker 1: So, and we know that Alex's phone is at the house right from eight, it got left at the house. That's, it's not, it's not going anywhere since it was up the house with the family. I just show no activity on it. Right. You can assume it was at the house. But it started shooting activity again at 9:02 and 18 seconds. That's when the steps start. That is correct. [00:33:01] Speaker ?: 283 steps. [00:33:02] Speaker 1: So, from that 8:55, 36 to 9:02 with a minute and some seconds to get up to the house, it would have like five minutes, if it were him, to do everything and get back to the house, in his house to the phone, five minutes? [00:33:27] Agent Rudolfs: I think you're missing that. The phone was actually locked at 8:49 for Maggie's phone. So, the 8:55, 36 is just when the backlight is off, but her phone locks forever at 8:49. [00:33:41] Speaker 1: But it's moving around, right, at 8:53. You didn't look at the speed at which it's moving, but that could tell us something. There's a Siri activation. I'm just asking a question, Your Honor. [00:33:56] Speaker 3: What's the question? [00:33:57] Speaker 1: Her phone is moving around, starting at 8:53, comma, there's a Siri activation near the start of that time, comma, and then there's a camera activation during this time and some orientation changes and then it goes off. Is that all correct? That's correct. And you don't know how fast the phone is moving during that period, but that is known, just no one has looked. [00:34:25] Agent Rudolfs: Is that correct? That is, is estimation with the phone. It does not track your exact, you know, speed or distance or steps. It's all estimated. So exact numbers is unknown. [00:34:50] Speaker 1: And you have, I assume from your testimony, you don't know why someone would take Maggie's phone but not Paul's phone? [00:34:58] Agent Rudolfs: I would not know, I mean, I'm not there. [00:35:01] Speaker 1: I mean, given your job as a sled agent, I mean, would the fact that the camera was, the phone was in someone's hand and it was an attempt to take a picture, would that be an inference you could draw? [00:35:14] Agent Rudolfs: He never said an attempt to take a picture from what I heard, but you'd have to ask a technical expert on exactly what that camera function was for. [00:35:24] Speaker 1: Well, you see, the thing is that the technical experts, they're not going to to say, I say either, are they? It's some investigators going to have to make some inferences from data. And the question is, is it a fair inference that if the camera's in somebody's hand and trying to take a picture, that that might be why the killers take that phone and not the phone that's in somebody's pocket. [00:35:45] Speaker 3: So the way I, Your Honor, it's the basis for the objection. Argumentative. [00:35:51] Speaker 1: Your Honor, I'm asking the investigator whether it's argumentative, your Honor, I do not believe it's argumentative. I'm asking if an inference would be fair. [00:36:14] Agent Rudolfs: So the inference I'm looking at it is that the camera was trying to identify a face to unlock, which it did not. So that is the inference that I would look at that instead of taking a photo from a layperson perspective. [00:36:27] Speaker 1: Right, except that's not an inference an investigator would make, correct? A technical expert would go and see what triggered the camera activation and tell that to an investigator, correct? [00:36:39] Agent Rudolfs: I was not, but I am not the technical person. [00:36:43] Speaker 1: And I think we covered in some previous questioning that testimony has been that that's knowable, but no one has checked. I'm going to switch over to Paul. Okay. And just to sort of summarize everything up, there doesn't seem to be any missed activity until the unread text message from Rogan at 8:45, I'm sorry, 8:49:35, is that correct? That is correct. And is it correct that his screen does not ever come on again until after the 911 call? [00:37:27] Agent Rudolfs: Is screen coming on? Yes, sir. I believe it dies shortly after it, like 10:30, 10:36. [00:37:37] Speaker 1: And I'm aware of the screen coming on after the 911 call, but I'm asking that it come on at any time between this text from Rogan and those 10, after 10 o'clock times. Can we just double check? [00:37:57] Agent Rudolfs: I show a display screen on at 10:20:08. Okay. So the answer is no? It does turn on. [00:38:06] Speaker 1: That's what you asked, correct? Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I was asking if it turns on before the 911 call. Before the 911 call. For the whole day? Well, it would be about an hour, 10 minutes, but... [00:38:24] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:38:25] Agent Rudolfs: I'm not seeing a screen on before the 911 call. So, incoming text messages or calls that they were received did not cause the screen to come [00:38:52] Speaker 1: on? [00:38:53] Agent Rudolfs: That's correct. [00:38:54] Speaker 1: Is it possible, and I understand this may be a question for a technical person, but is it possible that that's because the battery was at 2%? [00:39:06] Agent Rudolfs: Like I said, I would not know that answer. [00:39:09] Speaker 1: Did anyone ask, hey, why isn't the screen coming on on these notifications? [00:39:13] Agent Rudolfs: Unfortunately, I think it's hard to tell, you know, with the experts, but that would be my assumption. That would be either low battery. [00:39:20] Speaker 1: That's fair. [00:39:21] Agent Rudolfs: Trying to conserve the battery, because you don't want your... The light takes so much power, so I would assume that would be the answer. [00:39:28] Speaker 1: So, after whatever happened after 8:49, his phone is not prompting him, it's not lighting up when things come in? [00:39:36] Agent Rudolfs: I don't know if it's vibrating or whatnot, but according to the data here, it's not lighting up. [00:39:43] Speaker 1: Now, I think the previous testimony was that whoever, if anyone, saw his lock screen before the phone went dead, you know, after the 911 call, would have seen the yo text, is that correct? I believe so, yes. They would have also seen this 8:49 text, right? The 8:49... 35. 35. Or at least a notification that there are multiple texts, correct? I would assume so, that's correct. And there were at least 4 incoming calls from Rogan between 9:10 and 10:08, is that correct? I'm going to go off of your count. 9:10 and 28 seconds, 9:42 and 17 seconds, I think there's one at 9:57, one at 10:08. Correct. The one at 10:08, that would be during the 911 call, correct? That is correct. And that would be during the 911 call, before Alec leaves the scene to go up to the house and come back? Based on the data, that's correct. We don't actually know why the screen came on 2 times, do we? At 9:00, 10:18, and then 9:00, sorry, 10:18, and then 10:20. We do not. Do you know how long the screen stayed on at those times? I do not have that. Do you know if it was 12 seconds? Okay. At the second one of those, the 10:20, 08, screen on, doesn't Alex Murdoch's phone indicate he's walking at that time? [00:41:48] Agent Rudolfs: So, you know, we have a start time and an end time. It doesn't mean he's walking during the whole time, but that is what the phone... I'm sorry. [00:41:57] Speaker 1: Let me just ask. Is this the start? I just... Your Honor, it's just a clarification. [00:42:03] Speaker 3: Did you? As soon as the witness starts talking, then you start talking? Who's talking? Who are you talking? Go ahead. [00:42:13] Agent Rudolfs: So, the phone parses the data. It gives you a start time and an end time. It doesn't mean they're walking during that whole time. It just takes a start time and end time and gives you that data. Sure. So, to say that someone's walking during the whole time would be, you know, unreasonable. [00:42:28] Speaker 1: After the 911 call, was Rogan the first person that Murdoch called? [00:42:33] Agent Rudolfs: After the 911 call? [00:42:35] Speaker 1: Yes, sir. [00:42:38] Agent Rudolfs: Calls at 10:06:14. You said Alex called? [00:42:44] Speaker 1: Yes, the first person he called after hanging up with 911. Was it Rogan? [00:42:51] Agent Rudolfs: I have at 10:17:46. I have at 10:17:46. He calls Randy Murdoch. And that's his brother, correct? That is correct. [00:42:57] Speaker 1: Who was the second person he called? [00:43:00] Agent Rudolfs: I messages Randy and then calls Randy Murdoch again. And then John Marvin. John Marvin is another brother, correct? Yep, at 10:19. And then the third person he calls is Rogan. Is that correct? [00:43:15] Speaker ?: At that time, yes. And is that about 2 minutes and 30 seconds after that first screen on time? That is correct. [00:43:18] Speaker 1: Okay. [00:43:19] Speaker ?: So not immediate, not the first person. I think you're referring to that question that was previously during the 911 call. [00:43:19] Speaker 1: This is all after the 911 call. This is all after the 911 call. Right. Right. The question is, it's about 2 and a half minutes after the 911 call. Right. I think you're referring to that question that was previously during the 911 call. [00:43:29] Speaker ?: This is all after the 911 call. [00:43:29] Speaker 1: Right. The question is, it's about 2 and a half minutes after the 911 call. Paul's phone screen comes on that there was a call to Rogan and it's the third person that [00:43:32] Speaker ?: Alec Murdoch calls. [00:43:33] Speaker 1: Is that correct? Okay. Okay. [00:43:36] Speaker ?: So not immediate, not the first person. [00:43:38] Agent Rudolfs: I think you're referring to that question that was previously during the 911 call. This is all after the 911 call. [00:43:47] Speaker 1: Right. The question is, it's about 2 and a half minutes after Paul's phone screen comes on that there's a call to Rogan and it's the third person that Alec Murdoch calls. Is that correct? That was a 9:08. Wasn't the screen on? No. 10:18 in 53 seconds. That'd be correct. So I think we went over to anyone who was looking at what was on Paul's screen would see multiple missed messages, calls from Rogan, right on the screen. I would assume. Even a call coming in during the 911 call? [00:44:35] Agent Rudolfs: I would assume, but. [00:44:39] Speaker 1: Okay. So as an investigator, do you think it would be terribly unreasonable that after calling other family members? Other family members, someone would call the person who was the best friend of the dead son who had multiple missed messages and calls and even a call coming in during the 911 call. Is calling that person to ask what happened, what's going on, is that to you as an investigator a reasonable thing to do after calling other family members? [00:45:07] Agent Rudolfs: I would, as an investigator, I think that would be very odd given the scene and the whole situation that you're on the phone constantly, yes. [00:45:16] Speaker 1: That you're standing there next to your dead son, his phone is ringing to someone and you call that person after calling other people. That would be unreasonable. [00:45:24] Agent Rudolfs: Yes, because I am standing over my son and wife and is just witnessing that for the first time. I would think that would be to have someone on their phone constantly like that right after, given the scene and the situation. Yes, as an investigator, I would think that is very, it wouldn't be someone trying to find out what happened. At that moment, that would be the last thing that would probably come through my mind as an investigator, looking at the scene, just trying to figure out what happened minutes after I discovered it. I'd be in a state of shock if that was me personally. [00:46:05] Speaker 1: And speaking of a state of shock, I think you have, in the timeline later on, he reads some spam text message about, I think there's a picture of a woman in a bikini. [00:46:19] Agent Rudolfs: I wouldn't call it a spam text message, it's from Michael Gunn, who would be one of his friends. [00:46:24] Speaker 1: A group text. A group text, yeah. And then he Googles the name of a restaurant in Noda Stoe Beach, is that correct? That is what comes up on his phone. And doesn't he also call a videographer he hadn't spoken to in years? [00:46:37] Agent Rudolfs: Can you give me a page number to refer to? [00:46:40] Speaker 1: Page 42, Brian White. [00:46:41] Speaker ?: Last entry. That's what the data shows. So he would seem to be in a state of shock. He's none of that makes any sense. Yeah, that's what the data shows. So he would seem to be in a state of shock. None of that makes any sense, does it? You're not going to be in a state of shock. You're not going to be in a state of shock. You're not going to be in a state of shock. You're not going to be in a state of shock. You're not going to be in a state of shock. You're not going to be in a state of shock. You're not going to be in a state of shock. You're not going to be in a state of shock. You're not going to be in a state of shock. You're not going to be in a state of shock. You're not going to be in a state of shock. You're not going to be in a state of shock. You're not going to be in a state of shock. You're not going to be in a state of shock. You're not going to be in a state of shock. You're not going to be in a state of shock. [00:46:59] Speaker 1: You're not going to be in a state of shock. You're not going to be in a state of shock. You're not going to be in a state of shock. You're not going to be in a state of shock. [00:47:03] Speaker ?: You're not going to be in a state of shock. You're not going to be in a state of shock. [00:47:05] Speaker 1: You're not going to be in a state of shock. You're not going to be in a state of shock. You're not going to be in a state of shock. You're not going to be in a state of shock. You're not going to be in a state of shock. You're not going to be in a state of shock. You're not going to google the name of a restaurant after you find your son murdered. I'm not Alex Murderer. [00:47:15] Agent Rudolfs: I don't know what he was thinking at that moment. I probably want to be on my phone. [00:47:20] Speaker ?: Really? [00:47:21] Agent Rudolfs: You wouldn't be calling family? I might be calling family, but I want to be -- The testimony was that Rogan was family. [00:47:30] Speaker 3: If you ask a question, if you want him to answer, you have to give him an opportunity to answer. Proceed. [00:47:36] Agent Rudolfs: I would not be Googling and doing other things with my phone, no. [00:47:40] Speaker 1: You don't -- do you think he was -- do you believe he was Googling a restaurant, or do you think he was fat fingering the phone because he was in shock? [00:47:49] Agent Rudolfs: I have to go off the data, and that's what the data shows. [00:47:55] Speaker 1: And you believe that calling family and calling someone that the prior testimony was was like another son is unreasonable in the circumstances? I would say so, yes. [00:48:08] Agent Rudolfs: Given the fact that you just arrived to the scene, yes. [00:48:25] Speaker 1: And had just arrived back to the scene, had actually been there at that point, 15, 20, 25 minutes, correct? That's correct. That's correct. [00:48:33] Agent Rudolfs: I'd be doing anything I could to help my loved ones. [00:48:37] Speaker ?: And I'm kind of turning back to Maggie's phone. her screen was on at 9:06 in 12 seconds, right? That last orientation change. Let me flip back to it. You said her screen was on? Yes. Yeah, her phone was locked. Yeah, her phone was locked. But her screen, yeah. [00:48:59] Speaker 1: For the orientation from her, she was on. [00:49:00] Speaker ?: You said her screen was on? [00:49:00] Speaker 1: Yes. Yeah, her phone was locked. But her screen, yeah, for the orientation from the previous testimony, the screen had to be on for it to log the orientation changes. Mm-hmm. The orientation changes. Yeah. The orientation changes. That's correct. So, her screen was on at 9:06 in 12 seconds, right? That last orientation change. [00:49:10] Agent Rudolfs: Let me flip back to it. You said her screen was on? Yes. Maybe so. Yeah, her phone was locked. But her screen, yeah, for the orientation from the previous testimony, the screen had to be on for it to log the orientation changes. [00:49:32] Speaker 1: So, there was some movement of the phone between 9:06 in 12 seconds and 9:06 in 20 seconds? That'd be my understanding given previous testimony. Correct. And in this period, 9:02 to 9:06 in 47 seconds, Alec Murdoch is walking, I think, 283 steps in that time period? [00:49:57] Agent Rudolfs: In that time stamp period, correct? [00:49:59] Speaker 1: Yeah. Her phone is not. [00:50:03] Agent Rudolfs: No one's walking with her phone, correct? The phone is not logging any kind of steps. I don't know if someone's walking with it, but it's not logging steps at that time. [00:50:14] Speaker 1: But at that time, Alec Murdoch's phone is logging steps. [00:50:17] Agent Rudolfs: His phone's logging from 902 18 to 906 47. [00:50:18] Speaker ?: I believe her last log was in the 8 o'clock, yeah, the 8:53 to 8:55. [00:50:18] Agent Rudolfs: And at 9:06 in 14 or 15 seconds, Alec Murdoch calls her phone, correct? [00:50:34] Speaker 1: That's correct. [00:50:35] Agent Rudolfs: So he calls her phone while walking. [00:50:36] Speaker ?: Any period in which his steps are being recorded by the phone, to be specific? [00:50:36] Agent Rudolfs: There's a begin time and an end time. [00:50:37] Speaker 1: He could've stopped walking a couple seconds, a couple minutes into it. [00:50:50] Agent Rudolfs: It doesn't give us that precise data from these phone instructions. [00:50:57] Speaker 1: And that time period that he stops walking is 906 and 47 seconds, correct? And the car, the Chevy Suburban starts a second later after that, right? From the data, correct. So, it's a fair inference that he ends that by walking to the car, getting in and turning [00:51:17] Agent Rudolfs: it off. I'm not sure when exactly he got in the car or how long he was sitting in the car before, but this is what the timestamps show and this is what the vehicle start time shows and the end time for the steps. [00:51:29] Speaker 1: So, his phone is stepping, walking. While he calls Maggie's phone, which is moving, but not stepping with him. Is that what the data shows? That's your inference on the data, but... Well, I mean, breaking it down, his phone is in a period of steps, correct? Unknown when there is steps during that period. His phone is in this time period of steps, correct? Correct. Her phone is not in any period of steps, correct? Correct. Her phone in this time period where the phone call is coming in, 906, 12 seconds, 20 seconds, there's some motion because there's an orientation change, correct? That's correct. And he's calling the phone during this period that his phone's in steps, right? At that moment, right? I cannot say that he's actually in steps at 906, 12. Yes, and he said it, but his phone says there's a period that he's walking, and in that period, between the start and end times, he's calling her phone. [00:52:39] Agent Rudolfs: That is correct. But you can see during the 911 call, too, that there's times where someone could be stopped, someone could be walking. So we don't know if he stopped at 905:15 and the orientation changes and he's right at the car. I don't know that. [00:52:57] Speaker 1: Do we know, we'll put this, do we have any evidence that her phone and his phone ever move together? Not speculation, but evidence showing that they're moving together. Same person moving at the same time with both phones. [00:53:14] Agent Rudolfs: Moving together, like physically moving or functioning? [00:53:18] Speaker 1: Yes, that they're both moving. The same person is carrying both phones. They're moving at the same time. [00:53:26] Agent Rudolfs: I would argue that between 906:12 and 9:20 that the same person has both phones. [00:53:33] Speaker 1: Because there's an orientation change and no steps on this phone? [00:53:37] Agent Rudolfs: You have an orientation change starting while someone's calling, looking at the phone during that time period. [00:53:45] Speaker 1: And would it perhaps be reasonable that someone has that phone and an incoming call comes in, the screen says Alec Murdoch, and he gets tossed out a window? Is that another fair possible explanation? That could be your explanation. Why would that explanation be less fair than what you just said, just based on the data? That's how you interpret the data. On the drive to Almeda and back, did Alec take any detours from the expected route? [00:54:25] Agent Rudolfs: Not that I could see. The route matched up with his interviews. [00:54:33] Speaker 1: And in your timeline, we occasionally see these infotainment systems coming on, but nothing else happening. The prior testimony was that even the FBI engineer doesn't know why that is that accurate. That's accurate. [00:54:49] Agent Rudolfs: He said it could be, you know, you get close to the vehicle. Sometimes when, I don't know if you, newer GM vehicles, you get close to it and you can kind of hear a little buzzing noise. It's almost like the system's booting up. That's how he described it to me. It could be the key fob being closed. It could be the car unlocking, locking, door opening. They don't know what actually caused it, but it's just booting up and running in the background. [00:55:14] Speaker 1: When you were looking at the sort of going in and out of park data, did you look at the data for other days than June 7th? I did not. So you wouldn't know whether on other days there are periods in which it seems to go in and out of park repeatedly in a short period of time? I would not. You wouldn't know if that happened on 6-4 or 6-5 or also 6-6? I would not, no. [00:55:40] Agent Rudolfs: I was focusing on June 7th, 2020. [00:55:43] Speaker 1: Would looking at those other days and seeing the same thing happen inform your interpretation of seeing it going in and out of park on 6-7? I was just looking on the day of the murders. I mean, if it did that every single day, would it seem unusual to also do it on 6-7? [00:55:58] Agent Rudolfs: That would be a question for Mr. Farkowski, who actually looks at that data. [00:56:03] Speaker ?: Would it? [00:56:04] Speaker 1: It would. Is he going to make inferences about behavior based on the data, or is he just going to say what the data is? [00:56:11] Agent Rudolfs: He could say what the data is, but I wouldn't know an inference. I don't know someone's driving pattern and how they shift. How would I know that? He would. But how would I know that? [00:56:23] Speaker 1: Well, the question really is, if it happens every day, is there anything unusual about it happening on 6-7? [00:56:29] Agent Rudolfs: A period of days is not every day. You'd have to look at a, I would assume, a wide range of days to get... How many? [00:56:37] Speaker 1: I don't know. If it happened every day for the preceding three days, would that be enough? [00:56:45] Agent Rudolfs: Every day is a new day. I would not, you know, something could happen different on a different day. I mean, I don't know how you could compare that data. You go different places, you do different things. Different things happen during drives. I don't think you could accurately show that. [00:57:06] Speaker ?: You were, um... You were, um... you were, um... sort of toward the end, some text messages. You were, um... you were, um... you showed, sort of toward the end, some text messages and... one of them seemed to, uh... you were, um... you showed, sort of toward the end, some text messages and... one of them seemed to, uh... make a reference regarding possible... drug use. Do you remember that? I do. And that was dated, uh... May 6th. That was... May 6th. That was... May 6th. That was... May 6th. That was... May 6th. [00:57:34] Speaker 1: May 6th. That was... May 6th. That was... May 6th. Okay. [00:57:40] Speaker ?: I have, um... May 6th. [00:57:40] Speaker 1: I have, um... [00:57:41] Speaker ?: May 6th. I have, um... May 6th. [00:57:44] Speaker 1: I have, um... May 6th. I have, um... May 6th. One of them seemed to, uh... [00:57:49] Speaker ?: make a reference regarding possible... drug use. [00:57:51] Speaker 1: Do you remember that? I do. And that was dated, uh... May 6th. Do you have a... Do you have a copy pulled out? [00:57:57] Agent Rudolfs: Okay. [00:57:58] Speaker ?: Are you referring to the text, um... from Paul? Yes, I am. To Alex. [00:58:02] Agent Rudolfs: Okay. I have, um... May 6th. Okay. I have, um... May 6th. May 6th. 2021. At 10:52. [00:58:11] Speaker 1: And then there was some Google searches by, um... Maggie Murdoch. That is correct. Um... Are you aware of a text from Alec regarding, uh... Pills to... To Maggie on May 7? I have to see the text. I'll show you what's been marked as the sentence 138th. Which I believe... I believe. [00:58:40] Speaker ?: Yep. [00:58:43] Agent Rudolfs: I am very sorry that I do this all to you. I love you. Yep. [00:58:50] Speaker ?: Objection? [00:58:51] Speaker 6: No objection to the... Your Honor. [00:58:53] Speaker 1: No, I would offer, uh... What's been marked as the sentence 138th? Let's admit it. Okay. [00:58:57] Speaker ?: Hold on. [00:58:58] Speaker 1: Okay. Hold on. [00:59:21] Speaker ?: Thank you. [00:59:22] Speaker 1: So this was, uh... Mr. Moraw's... Response to the... Being confronted about the pills that you... Um... Previously read. [00:59:30] Agent Rudolfs: I can... I can only assume this is from... Alex to Maggie. The text message I read was from Paul to Alex. [00:59:40] Speaker 1: So his family was aware of his drug issues. [00:59:43] Speaker ?: Correct? [00:59:44] Speaker 1: I mean, from the text. I would assume from the text. And he was aware that they were aware. Correct? Correct. And they appear to be loving and supporting. Well, this is Alex to Maggie. [00:59:54] Speaker ?: Um... [00:59:55] Agent Rudolfs: If you read other text messages... She never responds to this. That day. From what I saw. So I don't know... Unless you have... What she sent back. Or... You can't ask them. I don't know if they were... Loving and supporting of it. This is from Alex to Maggie. Yeah. I'm sure we'll have an opportunity to see further text messages. I beg your questions, though. Um... know if they were loving and supporting of it. This is from Alex to Maggie. I'm sure we'll have [01:00:17] Speaker 1: an opportunity to see further text messages. Other questions, Your Honor? Direct. May it please the court. I was guilty. [01:01:11] Speaker 3: Thank you, gentlemen. Happy Guards of the jury. We're going to give you a sharp break. We're going to recess for five minutes. All right. [01:02:11] Speaker ?: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. [01:03:18] Speaker 4: Thank you. [01:03:48] Speaker ?: Thank you. Thank you. [01:04:48] Speaker 4: Thank you. [01:04:49] Speaker ?: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. [01:08:50] Speaker 1: Thank you. [01:09:20] Speaker 3: I'm going to bang the jury. [01:09:50] Speaker 4: I'm going to bang the jury. I'm going to bang the jury. [01:10:32] Speaker ?: Thank you. You may proceed. [01:10:36] Speaker 4: You may proceed. [01:10:48] Speaker 5: Special Agent Rudolski, a couple matters I have up on the screen. This is from your cat slides from the fitness trip coming back from Almeda. Is that right? That is correct. And going to this next slide, did the, and this is the trip, what was the max speed that the defendant hit on this trip back from Almeda back to Moselle approximately? [01:11:11] Agent Rudolfs: I believe it was around 70. I'm sorry, the trip back to Moselle, that would have been around 80. 80? Yep. The previous one was around 70. [01:11:21] Speaker 5: Did the data, while he was still at Almeda, that it reflect a, that the vehicle paused for a period of time in the driveway before continuing? It did. And would that pause affect that average speed that you calculated? [01:11:33] Speaker 6: It would. And that time? It would. [01:11:36] Speaker 5: I want to go to page 22 of your convinced timeline. [01:11:59] Agent Rudolfs: Okay. [01:12:00] Speaker 5: And up at the top, tell the jury what time period the data reflects that Maggie Murdoch's backlight was off. [01:12:19] Agent Rudolfs: It shows from 9:07 PM to 9:31:44 PM. [01:12:23] Speaker 5: And during the entirety of that time period, does the data reflect that her phone was also locked? It does. Could turn to page 18. Page 19, my apologies. Okay. From 8:53 to 8:55, what does the data reflect? Does the data reflect any steps locked on Maggie's phone? [01:13:01] Agent Rudolfs: The data reflects Maggie Murdoch's iPhone shows 59 steps logged. [01:13:05] Speaker 5: Can the data tell who was holding that phone during that time period? It does not. [01:13:11] Agent Rudolfs: No. [01:13:12] Speaker 5: If you could turn to page 39, please. At 10:20:08, what happens if anything on Paul's phone? Paul's iPhone, it shows display on, screen auto lock. Screen auto lock? That's correct. [01:13:39] Agent Rudolfs: What is your understanding, again, of auto lock? My understanding of auto lock, the phone is already locked, but it's just an automatic feature that when the screen turns on, it just auto locks. It just logs it as auto locks, even though it's already locked. Could that be from not recognizing a face? Either a face or, you know, pushing the button on the side, but yeah. What's the next entry on your timeline after that screen on auto lock on Paul's phone? [01:14:06] Speaker 5: At 10:20:08. Very next entry at 10:21:25. Alex calls Rogan. So at 10:20:08, we have that screen on and auto lock. And at 10:21:25, Alex calls Rogan Gibson. [01:14:13] Speaker ?: In preparing this timeline here today for the jury and for this investigation, what was your specific job with that timeline? [01:14:14] Speaker 5: The job was just to take all the data that we were going to take from the investigation and take the data from the investigation and take the data from the investigation. [01:14:15] Speaker ?: The very next entry at 10:21:25. [01:14:15] Speaker 5: Alex calls Rogan. Alex calls Rogan. [01:14:17] Agent Rudolfs: So at 10:20:08, we have that screen on and auto lock. And at 10:21:25, Alex calls Rogan. So at 10:20:08, we have that screen on and auto lock. And at 10:21:25, Alex calls Rogan Gibson. In preparing this timeline here today for the jury and for this investigation, what was your specific job with that timeline? [01:14:32] Speaker 5: The job was just to take all the data that we collected throughout this whole investigation and put it in one concise document. The job was just to take all the data that we collected throughout this whole investigation and put it in one concise document. [01:14:39] Agent Rudolfs: The job was just to take all the data that we collected throughout this whole investigation and put it in one concise document. The job was just to take all the data that we collected throughout this whole investigation and put it in one concise document. [01:14:48] Speaker 5: The job was just to take all the data that we collected throughout this whole investigation and put it in one concise document. [01:14:50] Speaker 6: The job was just to take all the data that we collected throughout this whole investigation and put it in one concise document. The job was just to take all the data that we collected throughout this whole investigation and put it in one concise document. Set it together in one timeline. That is correct. From multiple sources. From multiple sources. [01:14:56] Speaker ?: Provided to you by experts. [01:14:57] Speaker 6: Thank you. Special Agent Redolson. [01:14:59] Speaker 3: Anything further. [01:15:00] Speaker 1: I think there were some questions asked about peak speeds. to and from. Did you look to see if he passed anyone on the way they were back? What do you mean passed anyone? Like a vehicle? Yes, that his car passed another vehicle on a two-lane road. I don't know how I'd be able to tell that with the data. So you don't know if a very fast peak speed was simply gunning it to pass another car? I do not. [01:15:54] Speaker ?: I do not. [01:15:55] Agent Rudolfs: But that late night hour, I think that would be with, you know, the area, not a lot of people out. I mean, that's just total speculation. [01:16:04] Speaker 1: You don't know if there's another car out there. Just like yours is total speculation. [01:16:07] Agent Rudolfs: Right. To pass someone. That would be correct. Yep. I do not know. [01:16:12] Speaker 1: Yeah. You don't know if there are any other cars out there to pass. You don't know if he was passing another car. You just don't know, do you? I do not. [01:16:17] Agent Rudolfs: Just like with your first question. [01:16:22] Speaker 1: And you also don't know why Paul's phone, the screen came on those two times at 10:18 and 10:20, do you? I do not physically know. That second time that the phone came on was at that moment, Alec was actually on the phone with John Martin, correct? At what time? The second time that the phone came on, 10:20 and I believe it was eight seconds. [01:16:52] Agent Rudolfs: So at 10:28 seconds, that's when we have the display on. And then at 10:21:25, Alex calls. [01:16:57] Speaker 1: When the display comes on at that very second, Alec Murdoch was on the phone, his phone with John Martin, correct? If you do math, I believe so, correct? And this was also during a period in which, according to his phone, he's walking around. Though again, we don't know if he was walking that exact second, but it's during a period of steps, correct? It's during a period, right? Walking around on the phone with John Martin. No further questions, John. [01:17:28] Speaker 3: Let me step down. [01:17:30] Speaker 5: From the state. Your Honor, as discussed, we request a very brief recess for housekeeping matters.