Headstart Recap: Rep. Chel Diokno on why opening VP Sara's bank, tax records vital in trial — ANC

[0:00] Alright, joining us this morning is House Prosecutor and Akbayan Party List Representative Chell Diokno. [0:06] Representative Diokno, magandang umaga po sa inyo. [0:11] Nakamute po kayo, sir. [0:16] Yes, magandang umaga, Karen, at sa lahat ng nanonood at nakikinig. [0:19] Okay, pwede po tayo mag-Filipino, mag-taglish, para po mas marami po ang makaintindi, no? [0:25] So, today po, ngayon po ay lunes, the Senate Impeachment Court is expected to vote today. [0:34] Right? [0:34] Kung mag-i-issue, papayag sila na mag-issue ng Sabina para sa bank records, sa tax returns, etc. [0:44] You gave a very, it's been described as a very strong argument during the impeachment trial last week. [0:53] Anong nakikita po niyo, Representative Diokno? Papayag kaya ang korte? [0:59] Well, kung ang magiging batayan natin ay yung mga nangyari nung previous impeachment trials, [1:06] ay ako ay malaki ang kumpiyansa ko. [1:09] Kasi kung titignan natin, halimbawa yung nangyari nung impeachment ni dating Chief Justice Corona, [1:14] pumayag ang impeachment court at naglabas sila ng mga Sabina para makita ang dokumento. [1:20] Ang issue kasi ngayon ay hindi pa naman yung pagpapapasya mismo sa ebidensya, [1:25] kundi yung access sa evidence na makita ng mga maestrado ng ating impeachment court [1:31] at ng buong taong bayan, ng isang bayan ng Pilipino, [1:35] kung ano ba talaga ang andon pagdating sa issues regarding the unexplained wealth of the Vice President. [1:42] Okay. Ang argument naman po ng depensa, sinabi ni Attorney Michael Pua, [1:48] this is a phishing expedition. [1:51] Kung baga diba sinabi niya that at this point, ito yung direct quote niya, [1:56] ang quote niya na you can respond to this is, [1:59] when a Sabina becomes oppressive, unreasonable, [2:05] merely issued for the very purpose that there is a hope somewhere, [2:11] somehow, something incriminating will come out, [2:14] it ceases to be an instrument of justice, [2:18] it becomes a weapon of a phishing expedition. [2:22] Your response to that, that this whole process of issuing a Sabina [2:27] becomes oppressive to the Vice President. [2:31] This is not in any way a phishing expedition. [2:35] Yung kasing sinasabing phishing expedition, [2:37] nangyayari yan kung halimbawa maglalabas na Sabina ang isang korte [2:42] na baka sakaling may lumabas o may lumitaw na impormasyon. [2:46] Yan yung phishing expedition, kaya nga phishing baka makahuli. [2:50] Pero in our case, we have already a basis for requesting for these records. [2:55] Ang naging basis, yung lumitaw na ebidensya yung sinumitin [2:59] ng ating anti-money laundering council sa Committee on Justice [3:03] nung pang nasa House of Representatives itong impeachment case. [3:07] At doon lumalabas nga na bilyong-bilyones ang perang dumadaan [3:12] sa account ni Vice President Sara at ng kanyang asawa, [3:15] kaya natin gustong makita ang mga bank records, [3:19] pati ang BIR records at AMLA records, [3:23] para mabuo natin at makita yung buong katotohanan. [3:27] At hindi ko lang naman sinasabi yan, [3:29] ano Karen, may mga kaso mismo ang ating Supreme Court [3:33] na sila na nagsabi na pagka ang pinag-uusapan ay unexplained wealth, [3:38] ang dapat makita una ay yung baseline, [3:41] yung unang pagpasok ng isang lingkod bayan sa gobyerno, [3:45] yung una niyang pag-file ng SALEN, [3:48] at mula noon, lahat ng dumadaan na pera sa kanya, [3:52] sa kanya mga bank accounts, kung saan-saan pa yung mga kinikita niya, [3:57] because we have to compare the income that we can determine from that person [4:03] against yung lehiti mo niyang kinikita. [4:07] Pag lumabas na sobrang laki ng kinita niya compared sa kanyang lawful income, [4:14] yun ang nga yung unexplained wealth na sinasabi natin. [4:17] Okay. Representative Diokno, bakit ganoon kahalaga ang tax record? [4:24] Siguro ipaliwanag po niyo sa unexplained wealth, [4:27] gayong ang listahan ni former Senator Antonio Trillanes [4:31] of the 50 plus, so bank accounts. [4:35] Allegedly, the vice president with her father, right? [4:40] Tapos may isa pa doon sa listahan ni Trillanes, [4:43] may account number also with allegedly the husband. [4:47] Tapos yung AMLAC in that random, [4:50] kumbaga random, I would say random choosing of transactions lumabas na nagtugma. [4:59] Iisipin ang ilan pwede na yun. [5:01] Pag pinatawag mo yung bank manager at kinunform ng bank manager, [5:05] oo, account yan yung vice presidente. [5:08] That should be enough. [5:10] What is the role of the tax records? [5:13] Bakit mahalaga pa yun? [5:15] Ang kinukumpara kasi natin, Karen, [5:17] ay on the one hand, [5:19] yung mga bank records, yung mga pumasok na pera [5:21] at lumabas na pera sa mga accounts ni vice president [5:24] at ng kanyang asawa. [5:26] On the other hand, [5:27] ang titignan din natin ay yung kanyang lawful income. [5:30] At yung income tax returns, [5:33] halimbawa, [5:33] yun mismo ay galing sa kanila [5:35] at yun ay magpapakita kung ano yung mga dineklara nilang lawful income nila. [5:40] So, yun ang isang dahilan kung bakit mahalaga ang mga tax records. [5:46] Aside from that, [5:48] kailangan kasi natin mabuo yung larawan. [5:52] You cannot just take a snapshot of a person's accounts [5:56] and then come to the conclusion na meron siyang unexplained wealth. [6:00] Ano yun? [6:01] Talagang kailangan na suriin ng mabuti [6:04] yung mga pumasok at lumabas na pera [6:07] at ikaw kumpara nga yan sa lehitimong income ng isang lingkod bayan. [6:12] Oo. [6:12] Kasi yung salen po ni vice president 2025 [6:16] ay nailabas na yun, di ba, representative Diokno? [6:19] Katunayan, sinabi nung depensa noon, [6:22] yung million-million, [6:23] I think 8 million or more, [6:26] yung questionable, [6:27] ang sinabi ni attorney Michael Powa noon [6:29] ay inilagay lang daw sa others. [6:32] So, iisipin ng ilan, [6:33] o yung salen niya, sapat na yun. [6:37] Well, ibang issue yung nabanggit ninyo, Karen, [6:40] na yung sinabi nga dapat i-declare [6:43] ang mga cash deposits, [6:45] cash in hand, cash in bank, [6:47] na sabi nga ng defense ay nasa others daw. [6:50] But that is a separate issue sa unexplained wealth [6:54] kasi tatlo ang laman ng Article 2 on unexplained wealth. [6:59] Yung una, that the vice president amassed [7:01] unexplained wealth out of proportion [7:03] manifestly to her lawful income. [7:06] Yung pangalawa ay meron siyang mga hindi-dineklara [7:09] sa kanyang salen na dapat andon. [7:12] At pangatlo, yung hindi niya pag-divest, [7:15] in fact, yung tuloy-tuloy niyang pakikilahok [7:17] sa business interest na pinagbabawal ng ating Constitution. [7:21] So, each of these has their own strands of evidence [7:24] that must be presented to support those charges. [7:28] Yes. [7:29] Allegedly, in the bank accounts, [7:33] doon sa House Justice Committee, [7:35] lumalabas sa listangan ni Trillanes [7:37] na si Sammy Uy, [7:40] si Sammy Uy, isang negosyante sa Davao [7:42] na kilalang malapit na kaibigan [7:45] ni dating Pangulong Duterte, [7:47] was allegedly depositing something like [7:50] 7 million pesos every week [7:52] or every two weeks into their joint account. [7:55] Unang-una, nasa listangan ba ng prosecution si Sammy Uy? [8:01] Ipapatawag niyo po ba siya? [8:02] Well, at this point, I'm not at liberty [8:05] to reveal our strategies, Karen. [8:08] Kahit pasensya na ikaw, masasagot yung inyong tanong. [8:11] Pero itong mga bagay na ito, [8:13] yung mga transaksyon, [8:14] ay lalabas at lalabas yan dapat [8:16] pag nakita natin ang bank records [8:19] na hinihingi ng prosecution. [8:21] Yung alleged deposits na yun [8:23] ng isang negosyante [8:25] to her bank account [8:27] and the former president, [8:29] what would that fall under, [8:31] under the three points of unexplained wealth [8:33] that you just enumerated? [8:36] Well, if you recall, [8:38] during the Committee on Justice hearings, [8:40] when the Anti-Money Laundering Council [8:42] executive director testified, [8:45] napanggit nga niya na [8:47] meron silang nakita [8:49] or part of their evidence gathering [8:51] were certain predicate crimes. [8:53] And doon na lumabas yung [8:55] in connection with that, [8:56] ata lumabas yung mga pangalan na yan. [8:59] Now, of course, [9:00] these are issues that [9:01] will have to be threshed out [9:03] anew before the impeachment court. [9:06] At this point, [9:08] ayoko munang [9:08] i-detalye. [9:11] Ito yung naiarap natin. [9:14] Pero alam nyo naman, [9:15] Representative Diokno, [9:17] I mean, dalawang beses na ako [9:19] nag-cover ng impeachment trial [9:21] kay ERAP at kay Corona, [9:23] yung pinakamatindi kasi sa publiko [9:25] is always unexplained wealth. [9:28] Doon nagagalit ang tao eh. [9:30] Kasi yung tao, [9:31] ayaw nga nagpapayaman [9:32] yung kanyang opisyal. [9:34] So, among the four, [9:35] I interviewed you before, [9:37] ang pananaw nyo noon, [9:38] malakas ang grave threats. [9:40] Pero may dalawa pa kayo, [9:41] confidential funds, [9:43] at ano pa, sir, [9:44] yung isa ko, [9:45] a death-ed. [9:46] Yes, death-ed. [9:47] Bribery pala, [9:48] o, death-ed. [9:49] Looking at it now, [9:51] what do you believe [9:52] are the strongest? [9:53] After grave threats, [9:55] mag-iiba na po ba kayo [9:56] ng uunahin? [9:59] Of course, [10:00] mahirap na timbangin yan, [10:02] Karen. [10:02] At ayoko naman [10:04] maging partial [10:05] sa isang article lang. [10:08] Basta masasabi ko, [10:09] as far as [10:10] unexplained wealth [10:11] is concerned, [10:11] we are looking forward [10:13] to the opportunity, [10:15] number one, [10:16] na ma-access ang lahat [10:17] ng hinihingi natin [10:18] na records [10:19] ayon sa request namin [10:20] for Sabina. [10:21] At pangalawa, [10:22] ay may latag namin [10:24] ang ebidensya [10:25] sa mismong impeachment court. [10:27] So, isang paglilinaw, [10:29] dalawamput isa lamang [10:31] ang boboto [10:32] para pumayag [10:33] o hindi pumayag [10:35] sa Sabina. [10:36] And of course, [10:37] the majority right now [10:39] is the group [10:39] of Senate President [10:41] Sherwin Gatchalian. [10:43] Just looking at [10:44] those numbers [10:45] in practicality, [10:46] do you believe [10:48] the majority [10:48] will be easy to get? [10:52] I really can't [10:53] pass judgment on that, [10:55] but I do hope [10:56] that all the members [10:58] of the impeachment court [10:59] really see [11:01] the reasons [11:02] why we are asking [11:03] for this. [11:04] And look also [11:05] at the past, [11:06] at the precedents [11:07] that have taken place, [11:08] especially during [11:09] the corona trial. [11:11] Kasi nga, [11:11] napangit mga ka rin, [11:12] napakahalaga [11:13] sa taong bayan [11:14] yung issues [11:15] of unexplained wealth. [11:16] At dapat lang, [11:17] matagal na rin nilang [11:18] iniintay na makita ito eh. [11:20] Kaya dapat lang [11:21] mabuo natin [11:22] yung larawan [11:23] at yung buong katotohanan [11:24] ang may labas. [11:26] Na-interview ko po [11:27] si former [11:28] BIR Commissioner [11:29] Kim Enares. [11:31] So tatanungin kita [11:32] if you agree with her. [11:34] Ang sinasabi kasi [11:35] ni Kim Enares, [11:36] well of course, [11:37] to be fair, [11:38] the late president, [11:39] Noy Noy Aquino, [11:41] gave. [11:42] You know, [11:42] he allowed [11:43] the tax records [11:44] of corona [11:45] to be open. [11:46] Pero ang sinasabi lang [11:47] niyang sistema [11:48] na pwede ay, [11:50] kapag nakatanggap [11:51] ang BIR Commissioner [11:52] ng Sabina [11:53] bring the tax records. [11:55] Susulat ang [11:56] BIR Commissioner [11:57] sa presidente. [11:59] Dapat magbigay [12:00] ang presidente [12:01] ng approval [12:02] kung hindi daw [12:03] pwede makulong [12:05] ang BIR Commissioner [12:06] which is so clear [12:08] in the, [12:09] I think, [12:09] National Revenue Code. [12:11] Number one, [12:12] do you agree [12:12] at this point [12:14] na yan lang [12:15] ang legal na paraan? [12:17] Representative? [12:18] I agree with the observations [12:20] of former Commissioner [12:22] Kim Enares [12:23] na yun ang dapat [12:25] maging proseso [12:26] and kaya nga namin [12:27] hinihingi yung [12:28] sa PINA [12:29] para sa BIR [12:30] para masimulan na [12:31] yung prosesong yan. [12:33] And of course, [12:34] we do not want [12:35] to put anyone [12:36] in trouble [12:36] or in hot water [12:38] so we want to make sure [12:39] that all requirements [12:41] are followed [12:42] para wala naman [12:44] na mapag-initan [12:45] o kaya makasuhanta. [12:46] Oo. [12:47] Ang mahirap na yun [12:48] sa sitwasyon [12:49] is [12:49] President Marcos Jr. [12:52] has said [12:52] in the past [12:53] I will not interfere [12:56] with the impeachment trial. [12:58] Sinasabi niya yun. [13:01] BIR Commissioner [13:02] Kim Enares [13:03] just has said [13:03] you know [13:04] he has to support [13:05] his allies [13:06] who essentially [13:07] put their necks out [13:08] to actually impeach [13:10] the Vice President. [13:11] Ang tanong dito [13:12] paano kung [13:13] tumanggi [13:15] ang Pangulong Marcos Jr. [13:16] na makialam? [13:17] Sabi niya [13:18] ayokong makialam. [13:19] I will not act [13:20] representative. [13:22] Well, unang-una [13:22] hindi ko nakikita [13:25] na interference [13:26] man yan [13:27] kung mag-action [13:28] ang ating Pangulo. [13:30] Kasama sa tungkulin niya [13:32] at nasa kamay niya [13:33] yung desisyon [13:34] kung siya ay papayag ba [13:36] o hindi. [13:37] But we do hope [13:38] that in the name [13:39] of transparency [13:40] and accountability [13:41] that the President [13:42] does provide [13:43] that agreement [13:45] or consent. [13:46] Nakikita niyo ba [13:47] na pwede ito [13:48] maging second envelope [13:49] if you open [13:50] social media? [13:51] Well, maraming Gen Z [13:53] ngayon, [13:53] hindi nila [13:53] na-abutan yun. [13:55] But when [13:56] the impeachment [13:57] court before [13:58] voted [13:58] not to open [14:00] the second envelope [14:01] nagkaroon [14:01] ng walkout [14:02] at doon [14:03] ipinanganak [14:04] ang EDSA-2. [14:05] Are you seeing [14:07] a similarity [14:08] should our [14:09] Senator Judges [14:10] also think [14:11] of the possible [14:12] effects [14:13] if they [14:14] obstruct [14:15] the subpina [14:16] for the tax records? [14:18] Well, [14:19] tuwing nangyayari yan, [14:20] yung meron [14:21] na natatakpan [14:23] na epidensya, [14:25] natural na reaction yan [14:26] and dapat lang [14:28] na meron [14:28] ganun reaction [14:29] ang taong bayan [14:30] dahil tulad na [14:31] nabanggit ko nga [14:32] nung last hearing [14:33] ay hindi naman [14:35] confidential ang katotohanan [14:36] dapat makita natin [14:38] at maalaman natin [14:39] yung not just [14:40] the truth [14:41] but the whole truth [14:42] and nothing [14:42] but the truth. [14:44] That is why [14:45] it's so important [14:46] that the entire [14:47] impeachment process [14:48] not be based [14:49] on technicalities, [14:50] not be based [14:51] on the letter [14:52] of the law itself [14:53] but rather [14:54] on what we are doing [14:56] in the impeachment court [14:57] which is really [14:58] to find out [14:59] the truth [15:00] for the most [15:00] basic purpose [15:01] of determining [15:02] accountability. [15:03] And Representative [15:04] Diokno, [15:05] ano ba [15:05] ang nangyari [15:06] kung bakit [15:07] sa impeachment trial [15:09] naka-waive [15:10] ang bank secrecy law [15:12] pero pagdating [15:13] sa tax records [15:14] ganito kahigpet. [15:16] One would think [15:17] ang banko nga, [15:18] yung pera mo sa banko [15:19] that would be [15:20] very confidential [15:21] and private [15:22] and yet [15:23] it is waived. [15:25] Why would tax records [15:26] have a different treatment [15:27] to your own [15:29] personal bank accounts? [15:30] But unang-una [15:32] klarong-klaro [15:33] sa Republic Act 1405 [15:34] sa bank secrecy law [15:35] na talagang exception [15:37] malinaw na exception [15:38] ang impeachment. [15:40] Pagdating naman [15:41] sa National Internal Revenue Code [15:42] tingin ko [15:43] hindi nila naisip yun eh [15:45] kasi [15:46] I don't think [15:47] it was really [15:48] something that [15:49] became an issue [15:50] before. [15:51] Pero [15:51] pabuti nga [15:52] nanandun yung [15:53] provision [15:53] I think that's [15:54] Section 71 [15:55] na nagsasabi [15:56] na basta [15:56] may pahintulot [15:57] ang Pangulo [15:58] ay maaaring [15:59] gawing publiko [16:00] ang tax records. [16:03] Kailangan ba [16:04] maambyendahan ito [16:05] because [16:05] Attorney Michael Poa [16:07] even showed [16:08] pinalabas niya [16:09] yung ibat-ibang [16:10] provision sa batas [16:12] at sinabi niya [16:13] if our framers [16:14] wanted to include that [16:16] to make it an exception [16:18] dapat nilagay nila. [16:20] Hindi naman Karen [16:21] kasi mismo [16:22] yung Supreme Court [16:22] has already [16:24] carved out [16:24] some exceptions [16:25] to laws [16:26] that were [16:27] on their face [16:28] that seem [16:28] to be absolute. [16:29] Even the [16:30] Foreign Currency [16:31] Deposit Act [16:32] Republic 6426 [16:33] in several cases [16:35] nagsabi na [16:36] Supreme Court [16:37] na kahit mukhang [16:37] absolute ang [16:39] confidentiality [16:40] there are [16:41] cases where [16:41] justice requires [16:42] that we can [16:44] see what's in [16:45] those deposits. [16:47] Hindi naman [16:48] dahil [16:48] yun nga eh [16:49] kung masyado [16:50] kasing technical [16:51] to the left [16:52] of the law [16:53] ang pag [16:54] ang pananaw [16:55] natin [16:56] sa impeachment [16:56] eh wala talagang [16:57] mangyayari [16:58] hindi uusad [16:59] ang impeachment [16:59] eh pinag-uusapan [17:00] natin [17:01] ay accountability. [17:02] It's always [17:04] to me [17:04] we look at [17:06] the power [17:06] of the Senate [17:07] as an impeachment [17:08] court [17:08] and that is [17:09] an exclusive [17:10] power [17:10] na binigay [17:11] mismo lang [17:12] sa kanila. [17:13] Kaya dapat [17:13] wala maging [17:15] sagabal doon [17:16] as long as [17:17] the requirements [17:19] of basic [17:20] due process [17:21] and other [17:21] basic requirements [17:22] are followed [17:23] wala kami [17:24] nakikita [17:24] problema. [17:25] Sa issue [17:26] naman ng [17:27] due process [17:27] nakupaulit-ulit [17:28] din sinasabi [17:29] ng defense [17:30] yan [17:30] na violation [17:31] of due process [17:31] wala rin [17:33] po kami [17:33] nakikitang [17:34] violation. [17:35] Madaling [17:35] magsalita [17:36] ng due process [17:36] but what [17:37] we're asking [17:37] for is [17:38] show us [17:39] a concrete [17:40] denial [17:41] of due [17:41] process [17:41] and we [17:42] haven't [17:42] seen that. [17:43] Alright. [17:44] What is [17:45] the public [17:45] going to [17:46] expect [17:46] today [17:46] so the [17:47] Senate [17:47] will be [17:48] voting [17:48] today [17:49] whether [17:49] or not [17:49] they [17:50] will [17:50] issue [17:51] a [17:51] subpina [17:52] pero si [17:53] NBI [17:53] Director [17:54] Matibag [17:54] ngayong [17:54] araw [17:55] ba yun [17:55] o bukas [17:56] siya? [17:57] Bukas pa [17:58] si [17:58] So walang [18:00] testigo [18:00] ngayon [18:01] butohan [18:01] lang to? [18:02] Yes. [18:03] Sa pag-alam ko [18:04] bago silang [18:05] magbutohan [18:05] maaari silang [18:06] magtanong [18:07] sa amin [18:07] there may be [18:08] questions [18:09] propounded [18:09] to the [18:10] prosecution [18:11] and the [18:11] defense [18:12] about the [18:13] arguments [18:14] we made [18:14] last time [18:15] yung tungkol [18:15] sa nga [18:16] sa mga [18:16] subpina [18:16] nire-request [18:17] ng [18:17] prosecution [18:18] Alright. [18:19] Well today [18:20] whether or not [18:21] the impeachment [18:23] court votes [18:24] for the [18:24] subpina [18:25] I think [18:25] as a [18:26] viewer [18:26] it will [18:27] also [18:28] define [18:28] how [18:29] the [18:30] court [18:30] will be [18:31] viewed [18:31] as [18:32] Malaking [18:32] bagay [18:33] rin [18:33] ito [18:33] sa [18:33] korte [18:34] representative [18:35] Diocno [18:36] yung [18:36] magiging [18:37] pananaw [18:37] ng taong [18:38] bayan [18:39] sa [18:39] impeachment [18:40] court [18:40] ay [18:41] kumbaga [18:41] masesimento [18:42] ngayong [18:42] araw [18:43] kung [18:44] buboto [18:44] silang [18:45] no to [18:45] the [18:45] subpina [18:46] or [18:46] yes [18:47] to [18:47] the [18:47] subpina [18:48] anything [18:48] you want [18:49] to [18:49] add [18:49] sir [18:50] kaya po [18:51] nananawagan [18:52] kami sa [18:52] publiko [18:53] panurin [18:53] natin [18:54] bantayan [18:54] natin [18:55] yung [18:55] proseso [18:55] ng [18:56] impeachment [18:56] your [18:57] voice [18:57] is [18:58] very [18:58] important [18:59] in [18:59] terms [19:00] of [19:00] what [19:00] will [19:00] happen [19:01] in [19:01] the [19:01] next [19:01] few [19:01] days [19:02] and [19:02] weeks [19:02] in [19:03] our [19:03] impeachment [19:03] case [19:04] kaya [19:04] sana [19:05] subaybayan [19:06] natin [19:06] at [19:06] magsalita [19:08] tayo [19:08] ilabas [19:08] natin [19:09] yung [19:09] ating [19:09] nasa [19:10] loobin [19:10] at [19:10] hinahing [19:11] all right [19:11] on that [19:13] note [19:13] house [19:14] prosecutor [19:15] and [19:15] akbayan [19:16] party list [19:16] representative [19:17] shell [19:18] diocno [19:18] thank you [19:19] sir [19:19] thank you [19:20] good [19:20] morning [19:21] thank you