Hasan Piker: The Democratic Divide

[0:04] What do you think? [0:05] Even if it's three percentage points. [0:06] No, bro, what do you mean? [0:07] What do I think? [0:08] Can a woman run the country? [0:10] Oh, man. [0:11] Any time. [0:12] Any day. [0:12] Let me put it this way, Eugene. [0:13] Yeah, tell me. [0:14] I'm even going to go a step further, my friend. [0:15] I'm even going to go a step further, my friend. [0:17] He's going a step further. [0:18] Let me say this, my man. [0:20] In a world where we have lived through multiple world wars and famines and civil wars and [0:26] in that world, that's not the time to say, can women do this or not? [0:31] Does that make sense? [0:32] 100%. [0:33] If our plane was flying. [0:34] You're saying men ruined it already. [0:35] I was saying if our plane was flying with no turbulence, no crashes, no disasters at all, [0:41] if our airline as men was running flawlessly, then I'd be like, ah, ladies. [0:44] On time. [0:45] Ladies, take a back seat. [0:47] This is not the time for you to be flying this thing. [0:49] We got it. [0:50] The fellas got it. [0:51] But I'm just saying the way the fellas have been handling things. [0:54] The fellas don't got it? [0:55] Right now, how much are you paying for gas? [0:57] That's the fellas. [0:59] I don't see any women involved in those negotiations. [1:02] Invasions? [1:02] I'm just saying, so I'm not saying the women would be better. [1:06] I'm not saying that. [1:07] You're not saying they'll be better. [1:08] I'm just saying that. [1:09] They'll be okay. [1:10] We should not act like the thing that is happening now is the one. [1:14] Wait, but sending out one lady to go against many fellas that are out there running countries [1:22] and starting wars and conflicts. [1:24] You know who was one of the most effective? [1:25] Do you think that woman would stand in France? [1:27] Margaret Thatcher? [1:28] Angela Merkel. [1:29] Oh, God. [1:30] Angela Merkel was one of the most effective in that. [1:32] Now, she's not perfect by any means, but I still have, I've yet to meet a perfect president. [1:36] I'm going to put it out there. [1:38] Yeah, I am diametrically opposed to all of these conversations. [1:42] I say no women. [1:43] No, I'm kidding. [1:43] You're a damn. [1:45] I was like, you're a dead one. [1:46] You're a dead baby. [1:47] You're a dead baby. [1:48] I think. [1:50] We got him. [1:50] It's a wrap. [1:58] This is What Now? [1:59] with Trevor Noah. [2:01] Why would you not want to put it up there? [2:13] Wait, the cap was gone. [2:14] Yeah, but he put it on the floor. [2:15] Oh, no. [2:15] Come on. [2:16] Oh, he doesn't want it. [2:17] No, I want your hat. [2:18] He's an anti-communist. [2:19] Vicious anti-communist. [2:20] He's actually anti-cap. [2:21] Yeah. [2:22] His father was killed by a cap. [2:23] No cap. [2:24] Yeah. [2:24] No cap. [2:26] Okay, good. [2:26] His father was killed by a cap. [2:28] And his grandfather was killed by a cap. [2:31] Yeah. [2:31] And from that day onwards, he vowed no cap. [2:33] I'm an EFF loyalist. [2:36] Oh, you are? [2:37] Yeah. [2:37] Oh, shit. [2:38] You're lying. [2:38] So tell me why. [2:40] I'm just kidding. [2:41] I mean, I. [2:41] Okay. [2:42] No, I was hoping. [2:42] I was hoping you'd say why. [2:43] No, no. [2:43] I mean, I think the environment of panic around him is very funny. [2:50] Definitely. [2:51] Was. [2:51] Or was. [2:52] Yeah, now it just does. [2:53] Well, now he's. [2:53] Yeah. [2:54] Now it's just that. [2:55] What's happening? [2:56] What do you mean? [2:56] I mean, obviously, you can't speak for everyone. [2:58] But what's, what's, what are people saying on the ground in South Africa right now about [3:03] Julius? [3:03] He lost people when he was on the side of illegal migration. [3:10] Oh, really? [3:11] Illegal immigration. [3:11] So he said, there's one Africa. [3:13] Because his plan was four years ago, he wanted to branch out the EFF into other African countries. [3:18] Oh, damn. [3:20] And the one place that he failed the most was Zimbabwe. [3:22] Because the vice president of Zimbabwe said, you keep your things over there. [3:26] And then don't bring them here. [3:26] And then the same Zimbabweans that were saying, we love this guy, did not vote for him still. [3:31] They voted for ZANU PF. [3:32] And then now there's a new group in South Africa called March on March, which is a social movement group that is now demonstrating and picketing against foreign immigrants. [3:41] And he's saying, there's a deadline by the 30th of June. [3:44] All the illegal immigrants must be gone. [3:47] We always have that in South Africa every few years. [3:49] So he's saying they must stay. [3:50] And then they're like, ah, you've lost time. [3:51] So he was too woke. [3:53] Yeah. [3:54] For his crowd. [3:55] At the wrong time. [3:55] Yeah. [3:55] For his crowd. [3:56] He went off the deep end on too woke. [3:58] They were like, we love when you were singing Kill the Boar. [4:00] But then you started saying, you know, you started talking about this pan-African nationalist movement. [4:07] I don't fuck with that. [4:08] South Africa for South Africans only. [4:10] And also when you look young with extreme views, you're more palatable. [4:15] Oh, interesting. [4:16] Is he young? [4:17] He was young. [4:18] Okay. [4:18] I was going to say. [4:19] So now he doesn't look so young anymore. [4:20] That's a good point. [4:20] That's interesting. [4:21] When you see those images of Nelson Mandela being defiant, Rivonia trial. [4:24] Yeah, yeah, yeah. [4:25] He was young. [4:25] Chris Haney, when he just came back from exile, he was young. [4:28] So he was also the young guy in the ANC telling people that they've, you know, their time is up. [4:33] They've lost their way. [4:33] Yeah, but now when you look old, but you're still fighting, people are like, no. [4:36] At some point you have to, you know. [4:39] And Andrew Tate with a gray beard would not fly. [4:42] Andrew Tate? [4:43] Yeah, I'm saying with a gray beard. [4:44] With a gray beard. [4:45] Yeah, and with his 70s. [4:46] I'm starting to get a gray beard. [4:47] Fuck. [4:48] Then you've got a few more years of revolutionary in you and then it's over. [4:52] Actually, let me ask you a question. [4:54] Like, I always wonder this. [4:57] For anyone who gets to step into an environment that they haven't been into. [5:02] If you walk into a room now, like you've walked into this podcast, right? [5:05] How would you introduce yourself and how do you think people perceive you when you walk in? [5:12] This is an interesting question. [5:13] I don't think about it at all. [5:14] But I would introduce myself as, I'm Hassan Piker. [5:18] That's it. [5:19] If people ask me what I do for a living, I just say I'm a political commentator. [5:22] Okay, and then they would say like, oh, what politics do you commentate on? [5:27] Just say, well, it depends. [5:29] If I'm talking to a border patrol agent. [5:33] This did happen. [5:34] This did happen. [5:35] It just happens a lot. [5:36] I'm leaving Canada. [5:38] I was on a day trip. [5:39] I talked to Gabor Mate at the Web Summit in Vancouver, and I realized I have a jacket on. [5:46] There's a hammer and sickle pin that a fan of mine gave me. [5:49] It's on the jacket. [5:50] I'm wearing a Democratic Socialist of America New York City hat. [5:54] I immediately take it off. [5:56] I rip the pin off, and I walk up to the counter. [6:01] And the guy's like, oh, what are you doing? [6:02] It's a day trip. [6:03] That's strange. [6:03] I was like, oh, yeah, I'm just, I'm a speaker. [6:05] And he's like, oh, what do you talk about? [6:07] Like, what do you do? [6:07] I'm like, oh, I'm an influencer. [6:09] And he's like, what do you influence on? [6:11] What do you speak on? [6:12] I was like, well, you know, what's going on with young men? [6:17] And I tried to keep it as, like, broad as possible. [6:21] And then he got excited. [6:22] He's like, so are you a political speaker or a religious speaker? [6:25] He knew you. [6:26] And I was like, no, I just talk about lifestyle. [6:30] He knew you. [6:31] No, no, if he knew me, he would have kept me. [6:33] He was in the world. [6:34] He was in the world. [6:35] Really? [6:35] Were you going into Canada? [6:36] No, no, I was leaving Canada, but the American Border Patrol is inside of Canada. [6:41] So there's a couple of places, like in Ireland, America, and I think Mexico as well, where [6:44] they have, like, stationed their own Border Patrol guys. [6:47] Yeah, you can do the border process on that side. [6:49] Yeah, yeah. [6:49] So that on this side, you can just land domestic and be on your merry way. [6:52] Yeah. [6:52] And it's good, though, because, like, usually those guys are more woke. [6:56] Like, those Border Patrol guys are more woke than the- [6:58] On that side. [6:59] Yeah, than the American ones, I think. [7:01] So they just kind of go, all right, well, you're fine. [7:03] Get in there. [7:05] Yeah, but the reason I ask you is because you have, especially right now, you have such [7:10] an insane reputation that precedes you, depending on where people get their news. [7:15] Mm-hmm. [7:15] Yeah. [7:16] Do you know what I mean? [7:16] Like, I find it so interesting. [7:18] So if you read, let's say, what people would term mainstream or legacy media, you know, [7:24] like old newspapers and stuff like that, I would say that you're categorized as an extreme [7:31] leftist who is, like, radical. [7:34] That's what they say, right? [7:35] And then if I go on, like, Twitch or any of, like, the younger, you know, web places, wherever [7:44] they are, people are like, yeah, this is- Hassan's a political commentator who's actually [7:48] speaking about what's happening and he's not afraid to tell his truth. [7:53] If I go to right-wing media, I mean, that one's obvious. [7:55] You're a terrorist. [7:56] I think you know this. [7:57] Yeah, yeah, yeah. [7:58] Yeah, yeah, yeah. [7:58] Of course. [7:59] Sometimes they call you a radical terrorist, and I'm like, I don't understand the difference. [8:02] Is there, like, a tame terrorist? [8:03] Yeah, there's a moderate terrorist. [8:04] Yeah, there's a moderate terrorist. [8:05] And there's a radical one. [8:06] Yeah, yeah, yeah. [8:06] Yeah, moderate terrorism is Nancy Pelosi. [8:09] Oh, okay. [8:09] We're both communists. [8:10] I see. [8:11] But she's a more moderate terrorist. [8:12] Ah, so you're a radical terrorist and she's a moderate. [8:14] Okay, I see. [8:15] Okay, so there's that version. [8:16] The sickle and hammer gave it away. [8:17] Yeah, yeah, yeah. [8:19] But, like, where do you situate yourself in it? [8:22] Or do you even think you sit in one place? [8:24] Because I'll tell you why I ask this question. [8:26] I've learned from myself personally in life, depending on who I meet, they have a very different starting [8:31] point as to where to position me. [8:34] Does that make sense? [8:35] Yeah. [8:35] So I want to know if you position yourself in one place or if you're just a human being [8:42] navigating, like, how do you position yourself? [8:44] I'm just a normal guy. [8:46] So from my perspective, I just see myself as a regular dude who has a lot of strong opinions [8:53] and isn't afraid to talk about those opinions. [8:58] And I know that sounds almost like a political answer, but it's just true. [9:01] I don't think of myself as, like, a famous person. [9:03] I don't think of myself as, like, a dangerous radical, obviously. [9:06] I just want what's best, what I think is best for a society. [9:12] Huh. [9:13] And that's it. [9:14] And that's it. [9:14] But you are, you are famous now. [9:17] I guess. [9:18] No, not you guess. [9:20] Come on, Hassan. [9:21] Come on, Hassan. [9:22] Don't be humble here with us. [9:24] Hassan is number one in the call sheet and fighting it. [9:26] No, just serve the other people first. [9:29] Oh, come on. [9:30] No, whether you like it or not, like, because you have been thrust into a spotlight where [9:35] people listen to what you're saying. [9:38] People look to you. [9:40] I would even argue that you have the ability to shift and move people's votes and opinions [9:46] in the country now. [9:47] Apparently, don't, don't, don't talk about that too much, though, because everybody gets [9:51] mad at me when, when people start addressing that. [9:54] Wait, really? [9:55] Liberals get mad at me about, uh, that exact, uh, influence that they think I wield. [10:01] I, I don't think I'm like a kingmaker per se, the way that it's been presented. [10:04] Yeah. [10:05] Um, I do have some influence, certainly. [10:08] Uh, and I think, uh, it's mostly within the activist space of the party. [10:12] Yeah. [10:13] The door knockers, the community organizers, the labor union organizers, rank and filers and [10:17] whatnot. [10:17] Oh, interesting. [10:18] Okay. [10:18] Uh, so, so we do have the capacity to, to, you know, uh, offer a lot of help. [10:25] Two candidates that align with us. [10:27] Um, and I think that's, that's very frustrating for obviously the Republicans who think we're [10:33] dangerous terrorists. [10:34] Um, but certainly even for some centrists in the democratic party as well, because I've [10:41] been getting attacked obviously my entire life and my entire career by Republicans, neo [10:47] Nazis, the far right and everything else. [10:49] Yeah. [10:49] Um, but I would say that in these last couple of years, I've also started getting a lot of, [10:56] uh, ire from Democrats, moderate Democrats, corporate backed Democrats, neoliberals in [11:02] general, like the third way, uh, and all of these other institutions like lobbyist groups [11:08] that want the democratic party to, to maintain this moderate pivot permanently, constantly, uh, [11:16] conciliatory to right-wing culture war framing. [11:18] Um, and I obviously oppose that. [11:21] And I think that's precisely the reason why Kamala Harris lost. [11:24] It's the reason why Hillary Clinton lost to Donald Trump now twice. [11:28] And I want to change that, but these lobbyists don't want to change that because that's where [11:34] their bread is buttered and they get very pissed off. [11:39] You say your whole life and your whole career, but take us back. [11:42] Like what, what brings you to this point? [11:45] Like we meet you at this moment in your life, but like, how, how does, how does Hassan [11:48] Paikah come to be? [11:51] Um, like where were you born? [11:52] How were you raised here? [11:53] I was born in America. [11:55] No, no, I'm not saying it like a border agent. [11:56] I'm saying it to me. [11:57] I'm saying like a life story. [11:58] You're so defensive about it. [11:59] I got scared. [12:00] This man is like, I'm like, where were you born? [12:01] I was born here. [12:02] I'm born in America. [12:03] Listen. [12:03] I don't know if you've heard, but the federal government's coming after me currently. [12:09] We actually need to talk about that. [12:10] Yeah. [12:10] But no. [12:10] So I need to say it. [12:11] I was born here. [12:12] I'm an American citizen. [12:14] Um, I could run for president. [12:17] I would never do that though. [12:18] So don't get scared. [12:19] Oh man. [12:20] You know, you know, what's funny about this is I do find it, I do find it hilarious that [12:24] over the years, in a good way, I'm not saying this in a bad way at all, but over the years, [12:29] the border agents at American airports and ports have become increasingly immigrants. [12:35] Yeah. [12:35] Oh yeah. [12:35] So it's interesting to be at the border. [12:37] Yes. [12:38] Interviewed by an immigrant who's now I'm assuming in America as a citizen. [12:42] It's an amazing experience for an immigrant. [12:43] Yeah. [12:44] But, but it's also interesting. [12:45] They get it. [12:45] Yeah. [12:45] But it's also interesting when it feels like they're more likely to kick you out. [12:48] Yeah. [12:49] No, no. [12:49] Never had that feeling. [12:50] You've never had that feeling. [12:51] Never. [12:51] That's crazy. [12:52] No, no, no. [12:52] In fact, I feel like it's a, oh, it's like. [12:54] Give him hell. [12:55] I'm, I have a nine hour shift. [12:57] But you, on the other hand. [12:58] That's beautiful. [12:59] No, I like that. [13:00] I like that. [13:01] I've never felt that way. [13:02] You have an unbelievably positive outlook. [13:04] Yeah, but he's a positive guy. [13:06] That I think is borderline naivete and, and maybe even dangerous. [13:10] You know how many times I've gotten through with that editor? [13:12] That's crazy. [13:14] My Spanish is great at the borderline. [13:16] What are you talking about? [13:17] I have the. [13:17] I have the. [13:17] I have the control. [13:18] I have the exact opposite experience. [13:20] Really? [13:21] That's crazy. [13:22] Where I'm like, oh, fuck. [13:23] Here we go. [13:23] Every time I have to deal with customs of border patrol. [13:25] I mean, I've been detained by customs of border patrol before as well. [13:28] Oh, have you been flagged? [13:29] Yes. [13:30] Both when I'm flying in, because they do the, the triple S or whatever. [13:35] I've got the triple S. [13:36] Yeah, yeah. [13:36] What's the triple S? [13:37] Yo. [13:38] It's a random. [13:39] Fellow triple S. [13:40] Random security. [13:41] I think it's actually four S's. [13:42] It might be four. [13:42] It might be four. [13:43] To the side? [13:44] Yeah, yeah. [13:45] But they don't, but they don't tell you. [13:46] Wait, so you get to the window? [13:47] Okay, so I'll explain. [13:48] Yeah. [13:49] You, you have your, your ticket for your flights, right? [13:52] If you have it on your phone, it just tells you, no, you can't check in. [13:55] Doesn't tell you. [13:56] It's just like, you just need to speak to somebody when you get to the airport. [13:59] Just speak to somebody. [14:00] You're like, why? [14:00] I want to check in. [14:01] They're like, just relax. [14:02] You checked in, but we won't give you your boarding pass. [14:04] Just talk to someone. [14:05] You get to the airport. [14:06] When you get to the desk, they ask for your passport. [14:09] They ask for everything. [14:10] They then print your boarding pass. [14:11] They say nothing to you. [14:13] And then on your boarding pass, underneath like a bunch of random, right? [14:17] You know, all the stuff, ticket number, boarding time, all of that. [14:20] I think there's also some bullshit numbers there that don't need anything. [14:22] Yeah, there's just four S's. [14:24] Yeah. [14:25] Random security clearance. [14:27] Yeah, it's just, it just goes SSSS. [14:30] Super secret security search. [14:31] Is that what it is? [14:32] I don't think so. [14:33] That would be good. [14:33] That would be good. [14:34] And then what happens is you move through the airport. [14:37] Yeah. [14:38] So still nothing. [14:39] Nothing happens generally. [14:41] Your bags are checked in. [14:43] But then when you get to the gate. [14:46] The boarding gate. [14:46] Yeah, yeah. [14:46] The boarding gate. [14:47] Everyone, and then they pull you aside and they're like, excuse me, would you like to [14:52] take off your underwears, please? [14:53] Oh, wow. [14:54] Yeah, they do a special. [14:55] Cavity search? [14:56] I mean, they don't do cavity search. [14:58] But. [14:58] They go like. [14:59] Squat and cough? [15:00] No, no, no, no, no. [15:01] No squatting. [15:02] Just coughing. [15:03] Well, maybe they do it. [15:04] Maybe they do it to other people. [15:06] Wait, so they pull you to the side? [15:07] Yeah. [15:08] Then you have to go into a little secret room, which is not a secret. [15:10] Some airports just, they just create like a partition. [15:13] Yeah. [15:13] So you're outside, but inside. [15:15] Yes. [15:15] And they empty everything. [15:16] Yeah. [15:17] And sometimes you're with a big group and they're all walking and you get pulled to [15:21] the side and you're like waving at them like, see you on the flight, hopefully. [15:26] And that's usually when you're on foreign soil coming back into the United States of [15:30] America. [15:30] Uh-huh. [15:31] Because they have like a double, triple TSA, basically, when you're an American citizen, [15:37] I guess, coming back. [15:38] But I got detained at O'Hare Airport by Customs and Border Patrol on my way back from France. [15:44] I was about to speak at University of Chicago at the Politics Institute and they pulled me [15:51] aside and they had revoked my global entry, which I never got to use, which is really annoying. [15:58] I hate that. [16:00] It took so long. [16:01] I had to do all these interviews. [16:02] Yeah. [16:02] And you have to give your life to them. [16:04] And they gave it to me. [16:06] I got the card and I never even got to use it. [16:08] The first time I use it, I get detained. [16:10] And, um, yeah, they, they pulled me aside, uh, into a, a secondary detention area where [16:16] there's like an interrogation room and you sit in there. [16:19] Yeah. [16:20] It was on, it was in the news. [16:21] Yeah. [16:22] It was, uh, they, they did the secondary, uh, uh, detention and then, uh, interrogation [16:27] where they asked me like, what are your thoughts on Israel? [16:29] What are your thoughts on Donald Trump? [16:31] Have you ever been in contact with like anyone from Hamas, Hezbollah, uh, Ansarallah movement, [16:37] like the Houthis, all this stuff. [16:39] When you're in, when you're sitting there in that moment, what, was there a part of [16:43] you that just goes like, just say nice things about Donald Trump? [16:46] No. [16:47] Uh, I mean, I, I. [16:48] Not even a little bit? [16:48] Well, there were, here's what I did. [16:51] Um, when they kept asking me about Hamas, what my thoughts are, I just kept repeating [16:55] Hamas is a, uh, designated as a, uh, terrorist organization by the State Department. [17:01] I just kept repeating that line over and over again. [17:03] Which is a fact. [17:03] It's just a fact. [17:04] Yeah. [17:05] It's not. [17:05] It's not your opinion. [17:06] It's not my opinion. [17:07] It's just a fact about Hamas. [17:09] Um, and then when they asked me about Trump, I was like, that's when I did pushback where [17:14] I was like, yeah, I don't like him. [17:15] Like, what do you mean? [17:16] Yeah. [17:17] Damn it. [17:17] I was like, yeah, I don't like him. [17:18] What are you, what are you talking about? [17:19] I'm an American citizen entering my country. [17:22] Like, that's ridiculous. [17:24] Um, and they didn't give me too much stress about that, but they did ask a lot about like [17:28] the people that I had interviewed. [17:30] There was this, uh, Yemeni teenager who was 19 years old and the media dubbed him Tim Houthi [17:34] Chalamet. [17:34] He was, uh. [17:35] That was creative. [17:36] Yeah. [17:37] That sounds like something you'd say. [17:38] It is, but I didn't. [17:39] No, you didn't say it. [17:40] Yeah. [17:40] He never. [17:41] But creative words. [17:43] This was kind of my vibe, but definitely not me. [17:45] Say that word. [17:45] Yeah. [17:46] Tim Houthi Chalamet. [17:48] So, uh, yeah, I did get him. [17:50] I did get that from Trevor, by the way. [17:52] No, whoa, whoa, whoa. [17:54] He texted it to me. [17:55] Don't involve me. [17:55] He texted it to me. [17:56] He was like, that's a good one. [17:57] You should use this. [17:58] Don't involve me. [17:59] I know my friend's words when I don't hear them. [18:01] Don't, yeah, yeah. [18:03] He's like, look, look, obviously, he said, obviously the Ansarallah movement is doing the [18:11] right thing. [18:12] Wow, wow, wow, wow. [18:13] Edit, edit, asterisk, asterisk, delete, delete. [18:16] Asterisk, delete, asterisk, asterisk, edit. [18:20] So, you know, it's cool, though. [18:22] It's fine. [18:22] You can deny it now. [18:24] This guy, you're playing here, my man. [18:27] I wasn't born in this country, my man. [18:29] You're playing games here, my man. [18:33] But, yeah, I, um, uh, they were asking me about, like, uh, whether he, like, whether [18:39] this person was actually a part of the Houthi movement. [18:41] Yeah. [18:41] And I was like, I got lucky, I think, or they did this deliberately. [18:45] The guy I was talking to was, going back to what you were talking about, an Arab CBP [18:51] officer. [18:52] So he was knowledgeable about, like, the region at least. [18:55] Okay, okay. [18:56] So I think he was, like, a counterterrorism guy. [18:59] And I was just like, no, the dude's name is Rashid al-Haddad. [19:02] He's Sunni. [19:03] He's a Sunni Yemeni. [19:05] Uh, and, and obviously his last name is not al-Houthi and he's not Shia. [19:10] So, of course, he's not a part of the Houthi movement, not a part of Ansarallah. [19:12] He's like, oh, okay, I understand that. [19:14] Um, but what's interesting about that is it's not illegal. [19:18] Like, as an American citizen and as a member of the media, of course, I'm going to sometimes [19:23] talk to, to members of, of, you know, state-sponsored terrorist organizations. [19:27] That's a normal part of the process. [19:29] And it's, uh, and it's protected by the First Amendment, right? [19:33] And I haven't. [19:35] So I told them that I had not, but it is something that is, is very, uh, strange to ask someone [19:43] who is a member of the media on their entry into the country, uh, because I think they [19:48] were trying to tie that back to offering material support. [19:51] This is a real big point of contention right now in, in constitutional law as well. [19:56] Yeah. [19:57] Where they are, the administration, the state department, the government is trying to basically [20:03] expand the boundaries of what constitutes for material support. [20:05] Because material support terrorist organizations is very illegal. [20:10] Um, but material- [20:10] And just, just to break that down for, for some, for, so we're on the same page. [20:13] Yeah. [20:14] When you're saying material support of a terrorist organization, the United States government [20:18] has said, like most governments I'm assuming in the world, it is illegal to support terrorist [20:24] organization overseas- [20:25] Financially. [20:26] Yeah. [20:27] Or with arms or with- [20:28] And now it's becoming media, I guess. [20:29] Yeah, yeah, yeah. [20:30] But now that's, that's an interesting- [20:31] But now, but now they are, uh, trying to expand it into speech. [20:35] Yeah. [20:36] And one of the first things that they did was actually legal counsel, which again, is, is [20:41] a constitutionally protected right. [20:42] Oh, damn. [20:43] They're trying to prosecute lawyers that would, uh, that would, you know, defend- [20:48] Someone who's been accused of terrorism. [20:50] Yeah, exactly. [20:51] And, and it didn't work. [20:52] Uh, they put that on the back burner, but I think now with this administration, they're [20:56] trying to punish dissidents and they're trying to erode the first amendment really. [20:59] I mean, they could expand it. [21:00] If, if, if, if you look at the nth degree, they could expand it to you even having an [21:05] interview with somebody. [21:06] Yeah. [21:07] Regardless of your support of them. [21:08] Yeah. [21:09] That the interview- [21:10] Platforming. [21:11] Platforming them. [21:12] Yeah. [21:13] And so you've given them some of your material support, which is your subscriber base. [21:15] Yeah. [21:16] And that's obviously totally ridiculous, antithetical to the first amendment. [21:19] So what were you going to say? [21:21] I'm saying that, yeah, no, no, no. [21:23] I was agreeing with him. [21:24] I was saying the audience is now seen as material support. [21:27] Yeah. [21:28] It's- [21:29] This is scary. [21:30] I was about to say, are you not scared living this life? [21:33] I mean, it's not great. [21:35] It's, it's definitely tense at times, but, um, someone's got to do it, you know? [21:40] I, the way I see it is like, I'm speaking for, uh, for the most part, uh, voiceless people, [21:45] people whose voices are never heard and someone has to do that. [21:49] And I, I do believe in, in the better nature of man that they, if they encounter this information [21:56] and, and have a sense of charitability, they will understand it. [22:00] They will change their minds. [22:01] Yeah. [22:02] But what I mean is like, I'm just talking about you on a human level. [22:04] How has it affected how you move through the world? [22:08] So there's, there's our front facing selves. [22:11] Mm-hmm. [22:12] And then there's the us that we just live with every single day. [22:13] Like the person who hears a bump in the middle of the night, uh, the person who hears footsteps [22:17] running behind them and it's a jogger. [22:19] Like has, has, have you found that your nervous system has changed over the years that, that, [22:24] you know, as your profile has, has, has evolved? [22:27] I mean, I've had to deal with cyber stalkers for most of my life before I gained like more mainstream [22:32] credibility and more mainstream attention. [22:35] Yeah. [22:36] So I'm pretty used to being on the receiving end of death threats, doxing, swatting, things of that nature. [22:41] And unfortunately it's, it's a, it's a part of the job. [22:45] It shouldn't be. [22:46] It's horrifying. [22:47] Uh, but you just kind of get used to it after a while. [22:50] You, you say it's a part of the job, but I say this with all due respect. [22:56] It's not necessarily, it's a part of what your job has sort of become. [23:03] Like, like, I, I, I think, I think you, you, um, you have a lot of bravery in saying this, [23:09] but there's a lot of people who don't have this as a part of their job. [23:12] Like there's a lot of news anchors who don't have these issues. [23:15] There's a lot of people who are, you know, they hosting like a debate show on, on cable [23:19] television. [23:20] Yeah. [23:21] They don't have this. [23:22] So, so I would love to know like when it, when it first started, like what was the, which [23:27] platform were you on where you started to notice, oh, I'm not just breaking through [23:31] to the people I'm speaking to, but I'm starting to piss off the, the people I'm speaking against. [23:35] I mean, even when I was at the young Turks, um, all the way back in like 2014, 2015, uh, [23:40] when I would like randomly appear on some of the shows. [23:43] Uh, and then certainly after 2016, when I had my own show on the, on the platform on, [23:49] on Facebook, uh, called the breakdown where, uh, I, I started noticing that I think that [23:55] the first time I ever saw one of these forums where, you know, neo-Nazis congregate, where [24:01] they were like mapping out the blueprints of my, my apartment and the apartment complex. [24:06] Are you shitting me? [24:07] And, and, you know, talking about how I, I had two pit bulls that, you know, my, I had [24:12] a pit bull and my roommate had one as well. [24:14] And they were talking about how like, you need to come in with like a stick of salami or something [24:18] to like bribe the dogs and then, you know, and how they would just like break in, uh, [24:23] to my house and kill me. [24:25] And that was terrifying when it first happened. [24:27] Um, but that is so commonplace that I just don't even think of it. [24:32] That was, you know, more than 10 years ago at this point. [24:34] So, um, it's just, you know, it, it's not something that I, I think about all that much [24:42] or place a lot of emphasis on because I feel like that would almost allow these people to [24:48] win because they want to create an environment of fear, an environment of tension that disrupts [24:54] what I want to do. [24:55] And I'm not going to give into that. [24:57] And, um, I mean, I even said this after Charlie Kirk got assassinated, I was supposed to debate [25:01] him two weeks after his assassination. [25:04] Obviously it didn't happen. [25:05] Um, but, uh, one of the things that people kept asking me is like, do you have security? [25:11] You're changing things. [25:12] And, and for the first like week or so, uh, I, I had to cancel some of my, uh, public [25:17] appearances, but shortly after that, I started going back out there, going out in public, [25:24] going to protests again. [25:25] And, uh, and, and, you know, people kept saying like, well, aren't you worried? [25:30] And, um, my answer always is the same. [25:32] It's just, I can't let fear, uh, uh, change what I want to do. [25:36] I can't let fear influence my life in this way. [25:39] So I choose not to think about it. [25:42] Many of my friends think I'm insane for that reason. [25:45] Uh, but I guess sometimes you gotta be a little insane. [25:49] I mean, if you want to change things, there's a, there's a certain level of insanity that's [25:53] required. [25:54] It doesn't matter what field you're in. [25:55] If you're in science, if you're in music, if you're in comedy, if you're in political [25:59] commentary, it doesn't matter what you're in. [26:01] But, but I, I guess what intrigues me about you is how it doesn't seem to have necessarily [26:10] changed you or maybe it has. [26:13] And I, and I haven't seen it, you know? [26:15] So when you stream, one of the things about streaming that's unique is that, you know, [26:20] as the name suggests, it's like a stream of consciousness, you know? [26:23] So when you were on the Young Turks, you were like very prepared and you know, this is [26:28] something that's going to be put out and it can be edited and it can be, but when you're [26:33] streaming, it's you. [26:34] You say something and it's out already. [26:36] It's, it's, I've always, I've always wondered how much stress that puts on you because you [26:42] know, when we, when we're saying stuff, anything can come out of your mouth. [26:45] Yeah. [26:46] And then there's a moment where you go like, ah, damn. [26:47] Like all the stuff that's not going to make it to the final cut that you said about these [26:52] state sponsored terrorist organizations. [26:54] Two more things. [26:55] You see this guy, you see this guy. [26:56] Yeah. [26:57] Which made me, it shocked me. [26:58] Did it shock you? [26:59] Shock? [27:00] Yeah. [27:01] I was flabbergasted. [27:02] Yeah. [27:03] I just, I had no idea. [27:04] I couldn't believe what was going on. [27:05] Oh man. [27:06] I had no idea what, what opinions you hold. [27:09] So much. [27:10] But yeah, no. [27:12] No, but like I'm saying, when you're, when you're in that space, you, you also have [27:16] change your, so this is, okay, this is what I, I, I notice. [27:22] And it's, it's something that's always plagued me in American political commentary. [27:28] A lot of how American political commentators act is not sort of how they are and it's not [27:37] how they feel. [27:38] Oh yeah. [27:39] It seems like. [27:40] So they put on a persona depending on who they're talking to. [27:41] Yeah. [27:42] And, and, and I feel like there's a lot of money to be made from doing this. [27:44] Oh yeah. [27:45] Right. [27:46] There's a lot of. [27:47] Fame and support. [27:48] There's a lot of fame. [27:49] There's, there's a lot of power, but my issue is that it's not them. [27:53] So I remember when the first time this, this happened to me, it was a rude awakening. [27:57] I was, I had been on the daily show for like a year or two years. [28:00] And I got invited to an event. [28:02] It was like the hundred most influential, like news people in America type thing was only [28:08] like journalists and news and whatever. [28:09] And I get there and I'll never forget somebody from an extreme, like right wing publication. [28:16] They came up to me and they, when they walked up to me, I genuinely thought they were going [28:20] to fight. [28:21] I was like, okay, I'm ready. [28:22] I just thought, okay, this person's coming to fight. [28:24] I've talked shit about them and what they've said. [28:27] I believe it genuinely. [28:28] They're going to fight me. [28:29] And they came up to me and stretched out hand was like, Hey, look at this guy. [28:32] Hey Trevor, how you doing, man? [28:34] What's going on? [28:35] Oh, look at this. [28:36] Not bad. [28:37] Not bad. [28:39] And I promise you now, not, not even God as my witness. [28:43] Kibuka, anyone who worked with me at the time can tell you the next day when I walked [28:46] in the office. [28:47] So those are higher than God. [28:48] Yeah. [28:49] Because you can't ask God. [28:50] Maybe God will tell you a different thing. [28:51] That's crazy. [28:52] Yeah. [28:53] Yeah. [28:54] Now he's, now we know he's a radical atheist as well. [28:57] No, because my thing is when people say God is my witness, you can't ask God yourself. [29:01] Maybe, maybe you don't even know which God I'm saying, but I can also give you humans [29:05] in case you want to ask them. [29:06] So true for reference sake. [29:08] Yeah. [29:09] The next day, first thing I said, not only did I not engage in this conversation, [29:13] I actually felt like an asshole because you could see he was looking at me like, why [29:17] are you being like this? [29:18] Yeah. [29:19] Yeah. [29:21] Dang. [29:22] Yeah. [29:23] But then I remember going, oh, you've had this. [29:25] I remember going, am I? [29:28] I'm taking this seriously. [29:29] I was like, oh, I'm saying what I believe, but you are in wrestling. [29:34] Yes. [29:35] I'm out here thinking I am fighting the incredible Hulk. [29:37] Yeah. [29:38] You know what I mean? [29:39] Like I'm Hulk Hogan. [29:40] I'm, let me tell you something, brother. [29:42] And then when I meet him, he's just like, hey, I'm Terry. [29:44] Yeah. [29:45] And I was like, no, I came here to destroy you. [29:47] Yeah. [29:48] Because this is how I feel. [29:49] The reason I bring this up is because, you know, you look at Charlie Kirk. [29:53] You look at a lot of the rhetoric in America. [29:56] I find it interesting how in all of those moments, people who were espousing certain opinions [30:03] and ideas very quickly, like pull down a mask and they go, hey, you know, I know sometimes [30:10] in this country people get heated and, but you know, we, we need to, and I'm like, wait, [30:16] wait, what is happening right now? [30:17] We need to cool down the temperature. [30:18] Yeah. [30:19] But I go, you've said that Donald Trump is the second coming of Hitler. [30:23] You've said that this man is going to abolish the constitution. [30:26] On a public platform. [30:27] You've said, you've said these things as a person. [30:29] Yes. [30:30] Then something happens. [30:32] Someone shoots at Donald Trump and misses, and then you come out the next day and you [30:35] go, guys, guys, guys, I know that he might be the second coming of Hitler, but he's our [30:42] president and we have to stand behind. [30:44] I'm like, do you not see? [30:45] No, but I'm like, do you not see the inconsistency of what you're doing? [30:48] Yeah. [30:49] And more, more dangerously, do you not see that you are creating kayfabe? [30:54] You're creating wrestling with real people's lives. [30:57] Yeah. [30:58] And then when you start to get afraid, you go, why are you guys taking it seriously? [31:03] And so I want to know from you, because you've remained like consistent through it all. [31:09] Do you find it difficult to just like be you when you know that some people are playing [31:15] a character version of themselves? [31:17] So I had the almost identical experience that you're describing. [31:23] When I went to the White House, correspondence dinner, weekend activities, one of the weekends [31:30] many, many years ago when I was at the Young Turks and they were throwing an event. [31:33] I didn't actually attend the event itself, but I walked into a bar and this is at the peak [31:39] of like Trump one, all of a sudden the entire press is there, right? [31:43] The press pool is there. [31:44] All these commentary people are there. [31:47] And I think it was Kellyanne Conway that walked into the bar and the room lit up because [31:54] everyone was excited. [31:55] Anthony Scaramucci, Sean Spicer, all these people walk in and these liberal, these liberal commentary [32:04] people, these journalists who've like written scathing reports about these people were excited [32:10] to take photos with them. [32:11] No. [32:12] Yes. [32:13] Yes, this thing. [32:14] This is the thing I'm talking about. [32:15] And that's where I was reminded of, and I hate this guy, obviously, rest in piss Andrew [32:19] Breitbart, but I was reminded of his statement about how DC is Hollywood for ugly people. [32:25] It's true. [32:26] I mean, sometimes you can be an asshole, but you can get it right. [32:30] And he was right about that. [32:31] It is Hollywood for ugly people where it's, for the most part, the kayfabe is absolutely [32:37] real. [32:38] Like these guys see what they're doing as theatrics for the most part. [32:43] They don't like, not to say that all reporters are like this, obviously not. [32:47] Yeah. [32:48] There's some brilliant journalists out there and some great people in the commentary sphere [32:52] as well. [32:53] And there are certainly issues that they do care about, right? [32:57] Where they are uncompromising, where their true side comes out, their true opinions come [33:02] out. [33:03] But for the most part, everyone in that bubble, in the media bubble is playing a role and they [33:09] see it as such. [33:10] And maybe it's not dissimilar to, I guess, like having a coworker that you disagree with [33:17] vehemently, but you're chill towards them at the water cooler. [33:21] I don't know. [33:22] Maybe it's something like that, but I don't, I don't like that at all because like, these [33:26] are my real opinions. [33:27] I can't lie about who I am because I'm live for eight hours a day, seven days a week. [33:33] Yeah. [33:34] That's what I was, that's what I meant. [33:35] It's impossible for me to put on a persona. [33:37] I can be more buttoned up in moments like this on a podcast where I'm not like, you know, [33:43] inundated with messages coming in from the side on the chat. [33:46] Um, because like the, the medium that I occupy is, is very interactive. [33:50] That's what makes it so different. [33:51] Right. [33:52] But the issues I talk about are, are emotionally charged and, and very, uh, personal for a lot [33:57] of people, right? [33:58] It's very polarizing. [33:59] And, uh, it's a, it's a perfect disaster to, to, uh, say the least. [34:05] I mean, it's just, you have, you're talking about politics, eight hours a day, seven days [34:09] a week, and anyone from all around the world anonymously can come in and try to pick apart [34:14] what you're saying or piss you off or say something heinous. [34:17] In real time. [34:18] Yeah. [34:19] In real time. [34:20] And many people do take advantage of that. [34:21] Uh, that in my opinion creates really productive discourse and it can be unproductive. [34:26] Oh, interesting. [34:27] But then on top of that, I have entire groups organized on the internet that, that sit inside [34:34] of discord servers and subreddits that, that, uh, spend a good deal of time watching and logging [34:40] every single thing that happens on the stream so they can like clip something out of context [34:45] and then disseminate it to a lot of right wing groups. [34:48] And I've noticed that this is something that happens almost exclusively to people on the [34:52] left. [34:53] Um, people on the left have to face opposition from the entirety of the right wing, right? [34:58] From moderate Republicans all the way to neo-Nazis and white nationalists alike. [35:02] But they also face a lot of opposition from a big chunk of the democratic party's commentary [35:08] base as well. [35:10] Um, not necessarily the voters, but certainly from consultant groups, lobbyists, and, and, [35:17] uh, you know, those invested in maintaining the, the corporate interests at the, at the [35:21] center of power in the democratic party. [35:23] And AOC has to deal with this all the time as well. [35:26] Bernie Sanders has to deal with this all the time as well. [35:28] There's this like very different set of standards for people who are, uh, bold advocates, uh, [35:35] to, to, you know, make people's lives a little bit better than it actually is. [35:38] People who do believe in that people who are considered radical, I guess, for American [35:42] politics, not so radical for European politics. [35:45] I mean, Bernie Sanders would be the average politician in Norway, right? [35:49] His attitude, his views, his views are not radical at all. [35:52] As a matter of fact, he would, uh, he probably, uh, slot into like a center, maybe even a center-right [35:58] party in some of these countries, right? [36:00] Yeah. [36:01] Or at least his output. [36:02] But in America, if you're, uh, advancing the interest of Medicare for all, the interest [36:07] of the, uh, the people over interests of corporations and profit, you're seen as this [36:12] like crazy guy. [36:13] A lot of people have started referring to you as the Joe Rogan of the left. [36:18] How, how do you, how do you feel about that? [36:20] I, I mean, I have my opinions, but I want to know, cause you're the person they're speaking [36:23] about. [36:24] Yeah. [36:25] I mean, I think Joe Rogan is, is a goon, but. [36:28] A goon? [36:29] Yeah. [36:30] What a funny word. [36:31] He's just kind of a dumbass, but. [36:33] Not a word my friend would use. [36:35] Goon. [36:36] Yeah. [36:37] I'm not a goon. [36:38] Yeah. [36:39] Trevor would never say Joe Rogan is a goon. [36:40] Goon. [36:41] No, no. [36:42] Trevor would say friend. [36:43] Yeah. [36:44] Uh, confidant. [36:45] Trusted confidant. [36:46] Yeah. [36:47] Yeah. [36:48] Ally. [36:49] Yeah. [36:50] Fellow bow hunter. [36:51] Yeah. [36:52] Yeah. [36:53] Exactly. [36:54] Elk. [36:55] Elk eating. [36:56] Yes. [36:57] Yeah. [36:58] Yeah. [36:59] I mean, I don't align with Joe Rogan on, on virtually any issue, especially as of late. [37:03] No, no, no. [37:04] But I think what they, what they mean is like. [37:05] But they're saying I'm like reaching out. [37:07] They're saying you are. [37:09] Yeah. [37:10] There's this, there's this school of thought that says you are what ironically, the Democrats [37:16] said they needed after Trump won even. [37:18] Yeah. [37:19] And then going into like Trump's second term. [37:22] Trump two. [37:23] I like sequels. [37:24] They went, they went like, oh, you know what's, you know what's lacking on the left? [37:28] The left doesn't have a Joe Rogan. [37:30] The left doesn't have a manosphere. [37:31] The left doesn't have a space where there's engaging hard discussion that isn't, doesn't [37:36] have a veneer of CNN on it. [37:38] Doesn't have the, the lobbyist stench on it. [37:40] It needs. [37:41] It needs. [37:42] And then they said, this is the person. [37:44] Hassan Paik is the Joe Rogan of the left. [37:46] Yeah. [37:47] And that's what I mean is like, how do you, how do you respond to that? [37:50] So a couple of things when they were doing that, they kept coming to me and going, you're [37:54] the Joe Rogan of the left. [37:56] Uh, what do you think is the problem with the party? [37:59] And I kept telling him, this is an issue that you can't podcast your way out of. [38:02] Like, this is a problem. [38:03] This is a crisis within the ranks of the democratic party. [38:06] It's a, it's a messaging problem, but more importantly, it's a policy problem. [38:09] Oh, right. [38:10] Having a bunch of, uh, you know, sponsored or, or well-funded liberal content creators [38:17] is probably good to combat some of the misinformation if they're, you know, focusing all their efforts [38:22] on, on tackling, you know, the, the growth of, uh, right-wing independent media that's [38:26] still firmly committed to, uh, the, the party apparatus as a part of its like propaganda [38:31] machine. [38:32] Um, but you're not necessarily going to win elections off of that alone. [38:39] Uh, what, what needs to change is not the, the media ecosystem and the media environment. [38:44] What needs to change is the party. [38:46] Um, one of the biggest issues with Kamala Harris was that, um, she was incapable of defining [38:52] herself with key policy prescriptions that, that people could identify with. [38:57] Uh, and, and instead she was defined by her opposition. [39:02] That's why the Kamala Harris is for they, them ad worked. [39:05] I guess if you ask the democratic party consultants, not because everyone was like viciously transphobic [39:11] and like primarily invested in like punishing 1% of the American population. [39:15] Certainly there's some people who wanted that, but it was because of a lack of clear messaging [39:22] on key policy issues from the Kamala camp that allowed the opposition to define her. [39:29] Uh, we have to fix that was my argument. [39:32] And I kept warning over and over again, leading up to the election. [39:35] And certainly after the election, I, I kept talking about this all the time. [39:39] They of course, predictably did not listen. [39:41] They said, no, you're the Joe Rogan of the left. [39:43] And then I was like, okay, all right, bet. [39:46] Uh, sure. [39:47] I'm going to now also push forward candidates that are bold, that are actually invested in [39:55] making material changes that will improve people's lives. [39:58] Zoran Mamdani was one of them. [39:59] Right. [40:00] Uh, and, and then they went, no, no, no, not like that. [40:03] We don't want that actually at all. [40:05] You're a terrorist actually. [40:06] Hopefully, uh, Trump, he's right here. [40:08] This guy, get him. [40:10] That's what it turned into. [40:12] We'll be right back after the short break. [40:16] All right, Eugene, let's play a little game. [40:21] You know, make something fun. [40:23] Two truths and a lie. [40:25] Here we go. [40:26] One, I've had to tell a world leader that their fly was undone. [40:31] Two, when getting dressed, I don't do sock, sock, shoe, shoe. [40:35] I do sock, shoe, sock, shoe. [40:37] Three, I've been a Verizon customer for 11 years. [40:41] What do you think? [40:42] Hmm. [40:43] Very confused. [40:44] First of all, why would a world leader own a fly? [40:47] Cause those things just come uninvited. [40:49] Secondly, lying to a friend is not cool. [40:51] There's never been a game. [40:52] No, Eugene, a fly is for like the zip is what, and then it's, it's not a lie. [40:59] It's a game where I'm trying. [41:00] It's like, I give you info. [41:02] Okay. [41:03] I lied. [41:04] All three are true, Eugene. [41:06] And in case you were thinking, you know, Verizon isn't as expensive as you think. [41:10] In fact, if you bring in your AT&T or T-Mobile bill, they'll give you a better deal. [41:14] And the reason I've been with them for this long is just because I travel so much. [41:18] I need a network that's reliable. [41:20] That's right. [41:21] A better deal on the best network with the most ways to save on plans, streaming, and phone deals. [41:27] Take your AT&T or T-Mobile bill to your local Verizon store today. [41:31] Get your better deal and start saving for real. [41:35] Based on Rootmetric's best overall mobile network performance. [41:39] U.S. second half 2025. [41:41] All rights reserved. [41:42] You must provide recent consumer mobile bill in the name of the person redeeming the deal. [41:46] Additional terms, conditions, and restrictions apply. [41:50] So, do you understand how two truths, and do you understand it now? [41:54] I understand that you didn't have to lie first before telling me that Verizon is the best. [41:57] Verizon is the best. [41:58] No, I wasn't lying. [41:59] Eugene, it's not a lie. [42:00] I wouldn't lie to you. [42:01] It's a game. [42:02] Okay, I'm sorry. [42:04] I lied. [42:06] Ah! [42:19] There are a ton of articles written about you, as you're saying, from the left. [42:23] Just about how this guy's the worst thing to happen to the Democratic Party, and this guy is... [42:30] You are destabilizing what doesn't need to be more destabilized. [42:34] You know, it's funny. [42:35] I actually want to know what you think. [42:37] I'm torn on the Kamala and Hillary thing, because we are unable to run multiple simulations of our lives. [42:46] Or at least, like, we don't know if we can. [42:48] We always say that Hillary lost because of her messaging, blah, blah, blah. [42:51] We say that Kamala Harris lost because of her messaging, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. [42:54] I sometimes think we take for granted the fact that they were both women. [42:59] And I don't know how much you lose by being a woman running for president. [43:04] America has never had a woman president. [43:06] Trevor Noah, never had a woman president. [43:07] Radical misogynist. [43:08] No, you can... [43:09] Trevor Noah, don't run women. [43:11] This is how we get the clicks. [43:13] No, but what I'm saying is this, right? [43:16] Donald Trump lost an election. [43:18] Who did he lose to? [43:19] A man. [43:20] No, no, stick with me on this, right? [43:23] An old man who had never beaten anyone in any major election. [43:28] Yeah. [43:29] Or fistfight. [43:30] Well, you don't know, man. [43:33] I agree, but you don't know. [43:35] Apparently, he was what? [43:36] You know, he did a lot for South Africa's liberation. [43:38] Who, Joe Biden? [43:39] Yeah, yeah. [43:40] Fully. [43:41] No, fully, apparently. [43:42] Apparently, like, back in the day, he was... [43:43] No, not really. [43:44] No. [43:45] 100%. [43:46] He lied about getting arrested, though. [43:47] Oh, yeah. [43:48] Yeah, he lied about that. [43:49] That's separate. [43:50] And yes, no, he was actually anti-apartheid. [43:52] This is true. [43:53] Yes, yes. [43:54] Which was a big step when a lot of people were not. [43:56] Which is strange because he was also radically in opposition to desegregation in the United States of America. [44:03] And even at the same time that he was like anti-apartheid in South Africa, he literally was, you know, co-sponsoring bills alongside Strom Thurmond. [44:15] Yes, but why is this guy indefensible? [44:18] But Hassan... [44:19] I'm trying so hard. [44:22] Sleepy Joe. [44:23] But he was against apartheid, Hassan. [44:26] No, so... [44:27] And also, at the same time, he was against South African apartheid. [44:29] He was very much in favor of Israel, which again, another contradiction. [44:33] Yeah, but you know what's interesting about that? [44:35] I don't know if you've ever seen the interviews of Nelson Mandela when he comes to the United States just after he's been released from prison. [44:44] Yeah. [44:45] And he's like free. [44:46] The version of him that I call AM. [44:48] What's that? [44:49] Angry Mandel. [44:50] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. [44:51] When he wasn't taking any nonsense. [44:52] He wasn't taking any nonsense. [44:53] And then they like ask him, they go like, so Mr. Mandela, you know, you're gonna, you know, we've got enemies with Israel and why won't you team up with... [45:00] And he was like, the freedom of the Palestinian people. [45:02] That feels so good. [45:03] And he goes in hard. [45:04] And he's like, I will never support the freedom. [45:06] And they're like, but you're our ally. [45:08] And he's like, just because your enemies are not my enemies. [45:11] Yeah. [45:12] Your enemies. [45:13] I believe in the freedom. [45:14] And he goes in hard. [45:15] And you can see they're like, ah, my man. [45:16] Well, it was also about Che Guevara too, because they were like, they were hitting him on Fidel Castro in Cuba. [45:20] Castro. [45:21] Yeah. [45:22] And it's like, yeah, I feel like you're, you're oblivious to the amount of effort and manpower expended by the Cuban government at a time when like, they didn't have too much. [45:32] Yeah. [45:33] They had nothing. [45:34] They had nothing. [45:35] And they spent so much trying to liberate Africa. [45:39] And of course, there's gonna be some shared resentment against Western colonialism. [45:45] Yeah. [45:46] And why would they betray? [45:47] Why would he turn around and betray other people going through similar plights? [45:52] Yeah. [45:53] But what I was saying about, just so we're on the same page, is I sometimes wonder if, I'm sure there's a term for this. [46:00] We will answer our question based on the results, as opposed to actually looking at what happened because we can't know, right? [46:09] So with Kamala Harris and Hillary Clinton, we'll say, they lost because. [46:14] But if Donald Trump had lost that first election, we would have gone, Hillary ran the right campaign. [46:21] And of course, Donald Trump was gonna lose. [46:23] When Donald Trump lost in 2020, it seemed obvious. [46:27] It's like, well, of course he was gonna lose. [46:28] Look at all the dumb things. [46:29] He was saying, drink bleach. [46:30] Of course he's gonna lose. [46:31] Then when he wins in the next election, he didn't really change anything. [46:34] Yeah. [46:35] And then he wins in that one. [46:36] And I honestly find myself, I just have to find, I have to ask myself the question. [46:40] I have to go, how many percentage points come from people in America who are just not willing to vote for a woman? [46:48] Just like how many people out there go, I don't think. [46:51] Because I would read this and I would see people saying, I just don't think a woman can run the country. [46:56] I'm all for women, but I just don't know that a woman can be trusted to run the country. [47:01] And men and women alike saying this, by the way, spread out over the country. [47:05] What do you think? [47:06] Even if it's three percentage points? [47:08] No, bro, what do you mean? [47:09] What do I think? [47:10] Can a woman run the country? [47:11] Can a woman run the country too? [47:12] Oh man. [47:13] Any time. [47:14] Any day. [47:15] Let me put it this way, Eugene. [47:16] Yeah, tell me. [47:17] I'm even gonna go a step further, my friend. [47:18] I'm even gonna go a step further, my friend. [47:19] He's going a step further. [47:20] Let me say this, my man. [47:21] In a world where we have lived through multiple world wars, and famines, and civil wars, and in that world, [47:30] that's not the time to say, can women do this or not? [47:33] Does that make sense? [47:34] 100%. [47:35] If our plane was flying. [47:36] You're saying men ruined it already. [47:37] I was saying, if our plane was flying with no turbulence, no crashes, no disasters at all, [47:43] if our airline, as men, was running flawlessly, then I'd be like, ah, ladies. [47:46] On time. [47:47] Ladies, take a back seat. [47:48] No delays. [47:49] This is not the time for you to be flying this thing. [47:51] We got it. [47:52] The fellas got it. [47:53] But I'm just saying, the way the fellas have been handling things. [47:56] The fellas don't got it? [47:57] Right now, how much are you paying for gas? [47:59] That's the fellas. [48:00] I don't see any women involved in those negotiations. [48:03] Invasions? [48:04] I'm just saying. [48:05] Fellas. [48:06] So, I'm not saying the women would be better. [48:07] I'm not saying that. [48:08] You're not saying they'll be better? [48:09] I'm just saying that. [48:10] They'll be okay. [48:11] We should not act like the thing that is happening now is the one. [48:15] Wait, but sending out one lady to go against many fellas that are out there running countries [48:23] and starting wars and conflicts. [48:25] You know who was one of the most effective? [48:27] Do you think that woman would have been a chance? [48:28] You know who was one of the most effective? [48:29] Margaret Thatcher? [48:30] Angela Merkel. [48:31] Oh, God. [48:32] Angela Merkel was one of the most effective in that. [48:34] Now, she's not perfect by any means, but I've yet to meet a perfect president. [48:38] I'm going to put it out there. [48:39] Yeah, I am diametrically opposed to all of these conversations. [48:44] I say no women. [48:45] No, I'm kidding. [48:46] Damn! [48:47] I'm like, you're dead one! [48:48] You're dead baby! [48:49] You're dead baby! [48:50] You're dead baby! [48:51] I think... [48:52] We got him! [48:53] It's a wrap. [48:54] I go back to Barack Obama. [48:57] Yes. [48:58] I think in the United States of America, hatred for women is definitely a real thing. [49:02] Yeah. [49:03] We live in a patriarchal society, but we also live in a very anti-black society. [49:07] Mm-hmm. [49:08] So, when you're a young black man whose middle name is Hussein. [49:11] Yes. [49:12] And you're running, there's going to be hurdles that you have to climb. [49:17] Yes. [49:18] And you can overcome those hurdles. [49:20] My problem with Kamala Harris was that she recognized, she understood that there were [49:25] hurdles. [49:26] She's a black woman running against a white supremacist like Donald Trump, but she didn't [49:32] have the campaign and the platform that would actually convince people that this was someone [49:39] to vote for. [49:40] I completely agree with you there. [49:41] So, I don't discount the notion that people who are not old white guys are going to have [49:47] a harder go at it. [49:48] That's certainly true. [49:49] That's certainly true. [49:50] But I think they can overcome that with good policies. [49:54] And if you want, you can have an old white guy as well, Bernie Sanders. [49:58] He had the good policies. [49:59] People loved him. [50:00] Yeah. [50:01] In every poll, and I stand to be corrected because there are many polls. [50:04] I know this. [50:05] But in most polls where he was up against Trump, he won. [50:09] Yeah. [50:10] Yeah. [50:11] And Trump knew that too. [50:12] Yeah, yeah, yeah. [50:13] Really? [50:14] Yeah. [50:15] That's what Bernie would win. [50:16] Yeah. [50:18] Now, people will say, oh, well, Hillary Clinton would have won in those polls too, which is [50:21] true. [50:22] But I think what the people were looking for at that point and are still looking for really [50:27] was an anti-establishment candidate. [50:29] Someone, because they came at it with the recognition that the system wasn't working for [50:33] them, right? [50:34] In all of the different parts of the country that are forgotten, whether it's West Virginia [50:37] or Gary, Indiana. [50:39] Yeah. [50:40] There are a lot of people who are suffering. [50:42] And it felt like neither the establishment Republicans nor the establishment Democrats [50:46] were actually focusing on their economic hardships. [50:49] They only offered sometimes lip service to it, but never any like bold radical changes. [50:55] So when Trump comes in like a wrecking ball and ritualistically humiliates the establishment [51:01] Republicans and is seen as like a heterodox Republican who ironically enough in 2016 was [51:07] actually running as a moderate. [51:08] A lot of people forget this. [51:10] He was pro-trans in 2016. [51:13] He was anti-war. [51:14] He was anti-war, pro-trans. [51:15] He was like, there's too many of them to be honest. [51:19] He didn't say it like that. [51:20] Okay. [51:21] The way he said he was like, and I mean, my sons love them. [51:23] They love the guns. [51:24] They got back. [51:25] To be honest, I'm a little uncomfortable, a little uncomfortable with how many they [51:28] have. [51:29] But I mean, what are you going to do? [51:30] I mean, we leave it up to the States, but if I, if I had my way, we'd have a few fewer [51:33] of them. [51:34] But I mean, we'll see. [51:35] We'll see. [51:36] That's how he said it. [51:37] Yeah. [51:38] Good one. [51:39] Yeah. [51:40] He knows, he knows how to do it really well because they talk, you know, they're always [51:45] talking. [51:46] Yeah. [51:47] They're always conversing. [51:48] Oh, man. [51:49] But you see, whenever I listen to how Trevor views American politics and I obviously watch [51:57] some of your content and I hear you speaking from an outsider's point of view, I think [52:01] to myself. [52:02] You're like, why is Trevor not more like Hassan? [52:04] Exactly. [52:06] That's what I think. [52:07] Yeah. [52:08] I'm like, when we look outside, whenever we hear America doing something to another [52:13] country, it's because apparently that country's leader does not respect democracy. [52:17] Yeah, yeah, yeah. [52:18] So when I look at your guys' NDABAs, which is news, I go, surely you guys voted for this [52:24] situation. [52:25] And you spend eight hours a day, every day, talking about this kind of stuff. [52:30] You are arguably in the coalface of what people really want and you get to hear unfiltered [52:35] what people want. [52:36] So from an outsider, isn't that what America voted for? [52:39] And for you being in there, what do people want now? [52:42] I think most people don't really know what they want. [52:48] And there is a very sophisticated influence peddling operation that is actively subverting [52:55] democracy. [52:56] Damn, say more. [52:57] It's not a secret that Americans are not the most educated. [53:00] They don't have a lot of political education. [53:02] They don't have a profound understanding of history. [53:05] And I think that's by design as well. [53:07] I mean, our institutions are crippled, public education, public schooling in general. [53:11] And I think that's deliberate, especially since the Reagan era. [53:15] But outside of that, most people are just kind of operating off of vibes. [53:20] Most people are not voting. [53:21] The plurality is usually not voting. [53:23] Yeah. [53:24] Right. [53:25] But out of the people that are voting, and there's a multitude of factors for that. [53:28] There's the Electoral College and the fact that you vote not on a federal holiday, but on [53:35] a work day, on a Tuesday. [53:37] These are specific hurdles designed to stop certain people from voting. [53:42] And so most people need a buy-in. [53:45] They need something to motivate them to go out and vote. [53:49] And if the Democratic Party's modus operandi is to say, look, the other side is so much worse than us. [53:54] Come on, just vote for us. [53:55] Who are you going to vote for? [53:56] Nobody? [53:57] Come on. [53:58] And then most people go, all right, bet. [53:59] I'll vote for nobody. [54:00] Neither party is representing my interests. [54:02] Yeah. [54:03] And I don't really care. [54:04] It doesn't really matter. [54:05] I have to go back to work every morning. [54:06] I have to focus on my life. [54:07] Yeah. [54:08] I have to go deliver Uber. [54:09] Why do I care about whether it's a Democrat or a Republican ruining my life? [54:14] But most people rate the party as the National Democratic Party and the National Republican Party. [54:20] And they look at the output and they grade the National Democratic Party off of its weakest individuals, off of its weakest members. [54:29] There's a concept called the rotating villain within the Democratic Party's infrastructure where there's always a vote that will spoil a radical agenda that a Democrat runs on. [54:39] This happened with Joe Biden. [54:40] It was Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema that undermined Build Back Better, the IRA, and watered it down tremendously. [54:48] Is this a formal thing you're saying? [54:50] Or are you saying it just, you're noticing a trend? [54:52] That's what we call it in, I guess, poli-sci. [54:55] And that's what people in the commentariat call it. [54:57] So it's one person within the Democratic Party. [55:00] Not one. [55:01] Usually there's always a, depending, if there's six people. [55:04] Okay, but they are the rotating. [55:05] So they go like, okay, you guys are going to be the villains for this run. [55:08] Yeah. [55:09] You're going to vote against everything that is progressive that the people want. [55:12] Yeah. [55:13] But then we all get to say we voted for it. [55:15] And then you guys get, you'll be the bad guys for this run. [55:18] Yeah. [55:19] Yeah, yeah. [55:20] And just make sure it doesn't happen. [55:21] Like outbound. [55:22] Outbound congresspersons that are not running for reelection. [55:24] Ah, okay. [55:25] That are retiring. [55:26] Like Jared Golden is one of those guys right now. [55:28] And he was the lone voice that voted against the War Powers Resolution. [55:32] Huh. [55:33] And there's always a guy. [55:34] Joe Lieberman under the Barack Obama coalition was the sole vote that stopped the public option [55:40] from being advanced, which would have been radical change in this country. [55:45] Is this happening on the Republican side as well as much? [55:47] No. [55:48] The Republicans are, the Republicans, I think, are much better at whipping votes because they're, [55:55] not necessarily because they're more organized, but because they can be open about being pro-corporation. [55:59] Like that's their whole thing. [56:01] Whereas the Democrats, on the other hand, run against corporations, but when they're legislating, [56:06] they still have to be very cognizant of the corporate investors, the real benefactors, the corporate benefactors. [56:14] And any Democratic Party initiative that they advance will actually harm one sector's investment or one sector's interest in profit. [56:27] So they can't really do that. [56:30] So do you think people- [56:31] Because if they were to advance Medicare for all, let's take that for one policy that is unbelievably popular. [56:36] Where every other OECD nation has one form of socialized health care, except for us. [56:41] There's reporting on this. [56:43] I believe it's up to 48,000 people every year that die because they don't have access to health care. [56:47] 48,000. [56:48] In the wealthiest nation on the planet. [56:50] Like they, they could just go to the, they could go to their primary care physicians and like figure out what's wrong with them ahead of time or, you know, get the necessary help. [56:58] No way has that. [56:59] I mean, it's a Yale study. [57:01] I think the numbers might even be higher than that. [57:03] I find it unbelievable as well. [57:05] It's just ridiculous number. [57:07] Right? [57:09] So, um, people want this. [57:12] Why don't the Democrats advocate for it? [57:14] Why do the Democrats actually actively push back against it as Joe Biden did in the 2020 primaries? [57:19] In the 2019 primaries when Bernie was the Medicare for all candidate, Joe Biden came out. [57:23] He's like, Oh, I want the public option. [57:25] Jack never talked about it again, by the way. [57:27] That's a great Joe Biden. [57:29] Yeah. [57:30] That was a great Joe Biden. [57:31] Yeah. [57:32] Oof. [57:33] That was actually good. [57:34] So that. [57:35] Yeah. [57:36] Yeah. [57:37] It's because me and him talk on the phone. [57:38] Yeah. [57:39] But, but he, he ran in opposition to Medicare for all and, and he didn't have any investment in actually pushing for the public option at all. [57:47] He never talked about it. [57:48] Once he actually became the candidate, he stopped talking about the public option altogether. [57:53] He never brought it up. [57:54] Um, he never pushed for it. [57:56] That was designed specifically to tackle Medicare for all in its popularity. [58:02] And the reason why the Democrats do this is because Aetna, Blue Cross Blue Shield, and all of these for profit healthcare providers are massive investors in the Democratic Party. [58:14] They fund, they fundraise for all these candidates. [58:17] So of course they don't care about the population. [58:21] Like the politicians that win their raises, they don't care about, you know, fixing this massive crisis in this country. [58:28] They care about managing the crisis and they care about doing PR for the crisis and they care about winning reelection and maintaining the current system, no matter how cruel it is. [58:38] And that's just how it works. [58:40] Uh, so that's also part of the reason why I go back to how frustrated a lot of these think tanks are about me and have been written, writing extensively about the dangers that I present. [58:51] Yeah. [58:52] For the Democratic Party because now I've, uh, I've moved on from just talking about how shit the Democrats are to actually working with other, uh, you know, on the ground groups and organizations like the Democratic Socialists of America and numerous other orgs to actually run candidates that are pro Medicare for all that are uncompromising on the issue of Israel. [59:11] Where they're like, I'm an anti-Zionist, why are we giving unlimited bombs to this country that's doing war crimes, that's doing a genocide? [59:18] And that's a very frustrating reality for the Democrats because the more Zoran Mamdanis that they see all around the country pop up. [59:26] Yeah, popping up. [59:27] And the more grassroots momentum that these people have, the more people are going to look at that and go, wait a minute, you said Zoran was going to be incompetent. [59:37] You said he was going to be a scary commie. [59:38] Yep. [59:39] And yet the budget is balanced. [59:40] Yeah, budget's balanced. [59:41] He's one of the best mayors that New York has had. [59:44] Uh, it's just, every time I come here, it feels like I'm, I'm, I'm entering an alternative universe where like things are working somehow. [59:51] It's ridiculous. [59:52] Like we're watching from afar, uh, a totally different reality in New York City, totally different vibes. [59:58] Um, why can't we have that? [1:00:00] And once people start asking that question, once people start believing that the government can help and the government should help. [1:00:08] Should help, yeah. [1:00:09] Once they have more confidence in good governance and once they associate that confidence with democratic socialism, socialism, communism, um, all of a sudden people are going to want that. [1:00:19] And we've seen that in the polls as well. [1:00:20] We've seen that in the membership with the DSA, uh, which crossed the threshold of a hundred thousand paid members. [1:00:26] It's a very significant, uh, number. [1:00:28] Uh, and we've certainly seen that with, uh, the approval ratings for democratic socialism in general. [1:00:34] Uh, where I believe it's like, uh, in certain polls, it's like the, uh, either the plurality or the majority of Democrats, uh, say they have sympathies for democratic socialism or even self-identify around like 44% self-identify as democratic socialist within the democratic party. [1:00:51] So when you look at the young people in those worlds and specific, cause I'm assuming your audience skews young just because of streaming. [1:00:56] There's an assumption that I have like on that platform specifically. [1:00:59] Yeah, definitely. [1:01:00] Cause I know on YouTube, you've got a different viewership, you, you know, you're on Instagram, et cetera, et cetera. [1:01:04] But what do you think the democratic establishment is missing about how young people are viewing all of this right now? [1:01:13] Because you, you, you, you're speaking to young people and young people are watching you in a very specific way. [1:01:18] What are they missing that? What are they missing that the Republicans don't seem to be missing? I should say. [1:01:23] Cause, cause on the Republican side, it seems like they've got their young men on lock. [1:01:27] Yeah. Well, they have a different crisis or a similar crisis on the Republican side as well for youth vote and youth turnout. [1:01:33] Oh no, share, share. [1:01:34] And it's actually Israel cause, uh, [1:01:37] That has become the lightning rod. [1:01:38] Yeah. Yeah. [1:01:39] Uh, I believe it's 54% of Republicans under the age of 55 have a negative opinion of Israel. [1:01:45] That is a crisis for the state. [1:01:48] Is a crisis for the Republican party that wants to maintain unlimited loyalty to Israel. [1:01:52] And that's certainly a crisis for Israel in general that cannot exist, especially in the violent ways that it currently does in the maintenance of an apartheid in, in constant territorial expansion without unlimited support from the United States of America and the rest of the Western world. [1:02:06] Uh, and, and without the political cover that America offers as the hegemon. [1:02:11] So that's a huge problem. [1:02:12] If they lose the Republicans, it's over. [1:02:14] Okay. [1:02:15] Israel's done. [1:02:16] Um, that's going to be clipped. [1:02:18] Yeah. [1:02:19] What you mean is the way it's currently. [1:02:20] Oh, I've said way worse things about Israel. [1:02:21] The way it's currently existing. [1:02:22] You know, clips, bro. [1:02:23] This guy's clipping. [1:02:24] Clip that one. [1:02:25] Clip, clip that one. [1:02:26] Clip him explaining. [1:02:27] Clip him saying clip. [1:02:28] Don't clip. [1:02:29] Clip, clip. [1:02:30] Clip him saying clip. [1:02:31] Clip yourself clipping that. [1:02:32] Clip, clip, clip him. [1:02:33] I've said way worse things about Israel than that. [1:02:36] Trust me. [1:02:37] Uh, and it drives people crazy. [1:02:39] It drives like the, the pro Israel advocacy groups crazy where they're like, why won't [1:02:43] people, why won't people see that he's a dangerous radical terrorist? [1:02:46] Like I go to the Vanity Fair Oscars party and they're like, why is he allowed to be there? [1:02:51] He shouldn't be allowed in mainstream circles. [1:02:53] Like it's like Jonathan Greenblatt, Greenblatt, uh, and his bald head being like, it should have [1:02:58] been me at the Vanity Fair party. [1:03:01] Yeah. [1:03:02] It's so funny. [1:03:03] Oh man. [1:03:05] Yeah. [1:03:06] Okay. [1:03:07] So, so, so you think on the, okay. [1:03:08] So on the right, that's the lightning rod. [1:03:10] That's the lightning rod for sure. [1:03:11] On the left, what is shifting? [1:03:13] Why are we seeing a Zoran? [1:03:14] Why are we seeing election results like we're seeing? [1:03:16] Cause I mean, there's a few that we're seeing now where it looks like there's a shift that's [1:03:20] happening. [1:03:21] Do you think it's a, do you think it's a ripple or do you think it's going to be a wave? [1:03:24] Um, I think it's going to be a wave. [1:03:26] I mean, they're trying to stop it for sure. [1:03:28] They are doing everything they can to stop this momentum. [1:03:32] To stop this, uh, this insurgent campaigning that's taking place all around the country [1:03:38] right now. [1:03:39] How, how do you think the messaging has, or what do you think is going right in the messaging? [1:03:43] Because a few years ago when you said the word socialist in any way, the first thing [1:03:50] most Americans would say is those are the people who come and take your money. [1:03:54] You can't own anything. [1:03:55] Yeah. [1:03:56] Uh, you can't work towards anything. [1:03:58] There's no point in having a job. [1:03:59] You can't be wealthy. [1:04:00] You can't build wealth. [1:04:01] You can't blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. [1:04:02] That used to be almost across the board what people would say. [1:04:05] Right? [1:04:06] Now to your point, whether it's polling, whether it's online conversations where it seems like [1:04:09] people are shifting, but there's, there's, there's, there's two interesting sides to it. [1:04:13] There's one where people are going, that's not what socialism is or democratic socialism. [1:04:18] And then there's another side going, let them take all the money and let them, you know where [1:04:22] they're going, I, I still think it's that, but I'm actually happy. [1:04:25] I want them to take everything away and they want them to. [1:04:28] So like, what do you think is resonating about that message specifically? [1:04:32] I think it's the, it's the contradictions. [1:04:35] They're worsening and they're becoming more apparent and people are cognizant of the reality [1:04:40] that they experience pain and they understandably blame the system for it. [1:04:45] So they go, this is not working for me. [1:04:47] I need an alternative. [1:04:49] And this alternative seems fine. [1:04:51] I mean, I'm, I'm willing to try this out, even in a country as propagandized at the heart [1:04:56] of empire, the country that won the cold war, uh, the country that is the, the, uh, defender [1:05:02] of the ultimate defender of capitalism, uh, has, has destroyed the living standards of its [1:05:08] own citizens to such a degree that they go, you know, I, I don't believe the red scare propaganda [1:05:13] actually, or even if I do believe it, I like it. [1:05:16] Like you said. [1:05:17] Yeah. [1:05:18] Um, that's because people are suffering and they, they want an alternative. [1:05:21] And, and in some ways that's what Donald Trump did in both 2016. [1:05:27] And then when those wounds were not healed or addressed after four years of Biden. [1:05:32] Yeah. [1:05:33] The only thing people remember from the Biden, uh, administration was, uh, uh, negative real [1:05:38] wage growth for one and a half years, uh, as a lot of these economists, and they're still [1:05:42] doing this by the way, kept saying, well, this is a vibe session. [1:05:46] Actually, things are great, uh, on the economy front. [1:05:49] What are you guys complaining about? [1:05:50] I mean, I have. [1:05:51] What do you get these terms? [1:05:52] What? [1:05:53] Vibe session. [1:05:54] You're making us sound old. [1:05:55] No, no, no, no. [1:05:56] That's what they said. [1:05:57] That's what they said. [1:05:58] Yeah. [1:05:59] I don't know how they phrase this, right? [1:06:00] What they try and do is, especially the people who run like media in the biggest way, what [1:06:05] they do is they'll try and tell you as people on the ground that what you're experiencing [1:06:10] is not real. [1:06:11] Yeah. [1:06:12] You, these are your feelings. [1:06:13] The economy is doing better than ever. [1:06:15] Yeah. [1:06:16] You have no idea what we're doing in the background. [1:06:17] Yeah. [1:06:18] But working towards. [1:06:19] No, but they even go like your life is better, even though you don't think your life is [1:06:22] better. [1:06:23] Yeah. [1:06:24] Yeah. [1:06:25] But what's, what's really sinister. [1:06:26] It's exactly. [1:06:27] It's gaslighting and it's sinister. [1:06:28] You know why? [1:06:29] Because they talk about the economy. [1:06:31] Like everyone is an equal participant in it. [1:06:33] Yeah. [1:06:34] No. [1:06:35] That's, that's one of the smartest things they do is they talk about the economy. [1:06:37] Look at the GDP. [1:06:38] Look at the economy. [1:06:39] Look at the stock market. [1:06:40] The stock market has never been. [1:06:41] Yeah. [1:06:42] But it's like, guys, if Jeff Bezos gets into a bus with all of us, the GDP of that bus has [1:06:50] gone up dramatically. [1:06:51] Dramatically, yeah. [1:06:52] The value of that bus has gone up. [1:06:54] But you know, we do not have that money. [1:06:57] Yeah. [1:06:58] You can say this bus is doing well. [1:07:00] And that is technically true. [1:07:01] But if one person gets off that bus, the bus is broke now. [1:07:05] Yeah. [1:07:06] And the ones that are in the bus are benefiting. [1:07:07] But now, no, they're not, they're not even benefiting. [1:07:09] Not even? [1:07:10] That's no, because the people, the people in the, in the country are in the bus. [1:07:13] Right. [1:07:14] And they're going, you're doing well. [1:07:15] Look how much money is in this bus. [1:07:17] And people are like, yeah, but it costs me 30% more to go and buy ground beef before I [1:07:21] go do a barbecue. [1:07:23] It's costing me like 20, 30% more for my gas. [1:07:26] It's costing me 20, 30% more. [1:07:28] My wages are not keeping up. [1:07:29] Yeah. [1:07:30] My cost of living is going up. [1:07:31] But apparently, we're having a good time. [1:07:33] We're having a good time. [1:07:34] It's like, no, the country, yes, the bus is technically doing well. [1:07:38] Yes. [1:07:39] Because of a few passengers who are doing well. [1:07:41] Yes. [1:07:42] But the passengers- [1:07:43] Not doing well. [1:07:44] Are not actually doing well. [1:07:45] And so that, to your point, it becomes like this, this gaslighting feeling where they [1:07:49] go, no, no, no, they can't, it's vibe. [1:07:51] They go like, no, no, no, it's a vibe session. [1:07:53] You guys- [1:07:54] I love that word. [1:07:55] It's not a recession. [1:07:56] The numbers are not bad. [1:07:58] Yeah. [1:07:59] Your vibes are bad. [1:08:00] You need to change yourself. [1:08:01] And that was obviously, yeah, that was incredibly frustrating for people to see. [1:08:05] That's crazy. [1:08:06] It's one of the things I brought up in the lead up to the 2024 election over and over [1:08:10] again, where it was like, well, the economy is rebounding, which is true. [1:08:13] It was, right? [1:08:14] But what I kept repeatedly explaining to people or trying to was, well, in 2016, Trump won [1:08:20] and the economy was seemingly on a much more positive trajectory than it was in 2024. [1:08:25] And clearly people were suffering enough back then that they thought, I'm going to vote [1:08:29] a crazy guy, right? [1:08:30] And they don't read it as that. [1:08:32] They think, oh, it's got to be all these different reasons. [1:08:34] And sometimes those different reasons are true. [1:08:36] You know, white supremacy is a powerful force. [1:08:38] Obviously, misogyny is a powerful force. [1:08:40] But at the end of the day, those hurdles are climbable. [1:08:43] Those hurdles can be destroyed if you have a candidate that can communicate honestly [1:08:50] and come across as earnest in defense of the people over the interests of corporations. [1:08:55] Yeah, that's probably the biggest thing I've noticed. [1:08:58] And I think people are noticing en masse, whether you are for or against the Republican Party. [1:09:05] I mean, now really, it's the Donald Trump Party, because it's not what it was as a machine [1:09:09] before. [1:09:10] It is the Donald Trump Party. [1:09:12] It does what it says in many ways. [1:09:15] Now, there's many things where it doesn't, but it like, so, you know, they go like, oh, [1:09:18] but he didn't build a wall. [1:09:19] It's like, yeah, but he sort of did. [1:09:20] He didn't build the physical wall, but he built a wall, if you're honest. [1:09:23] If you look at like the visas, the bans, how few people actually can come into America [1:09:27] now, how few people can get jobs, deportation. [1:09:29] He built the wall. [1:09:30] You know, you go like, oh, no, I'm going to shut this down. [1:09:33] He did trade wars, et cetera, et cetera. [1:09:35] Yeah. [1:09:36] He's sort of doing the thing. [1:09:37] Whether it's good for the country or not is a separate conversation. [1:09:40] Because, I mean, you look at your bank balance and ask yourself, right? [1:09:43] Yeah, yeah, yeah. [1:09:44] Not you. [1:09:45] And then on the other side, it feels like the Democrats, Donald Trump comes in and opens [1:09:51] up a toolbox of government. [1:09:53] And then the Democrats come in and they go, ah, we don't really have any tools. [1:09:58] And it's like, that guy's got hammers. [1:10:00] He's got screwdrivers. [1:10:01] He's got, he can build or dismantle anything. [1:10:03] Yeah. [1:10:04] And then every time the Democrats get power, they go, yeah, let's just keep it the way it [1:10:08] is. [1:10:09] And let's be grateful that it still exists. [1:10:11] Or let's balance the budget. [1:10:12] Oh yeah. [1:10:13] It's always, it's never something radical. [1:10:15] It's never something that's going to change people's lives. [1:10:19] Radically change people's lives. [1:10:20] Exactly. [1:10:21] And even when they do actually make necessary changes, like the ACA was a profound achievement [1:10:26] altogether. [1:10:27] It wasn't bold enough. [1:10:28] It wasn't brave enough. [1:10:29] The public option should have been passed as well. [1:10:33] But even then, in the process of passing the Affordable Care Act, Republicans never were [1:10:40] going to caucus the Democrats on this issue. [1:10:42] And they attacked it over and over again. [1:10:43] And they took advantage of the gridlock that they were creating, where the Democrats could [1:10:46] have just advanced it. [1:10:47] They could have. [1:10:48] They had the numbers. [1:10:49] They could have just, they had the numbers. [1:10:50] They could have advanced. [1:10:51] They could have been like, fuck off. [1:10:52] Right? [1:10:53] But they allowed this gridlock to take place where Republicans used that time on the clock, [1:10:58] where they were running out the clock, which gridlock is something that most Americans [1:11:01] hate. [1:11:02] Donald Trump doesn't ever do that. [1:11:03] Yeah, he doesn't. [1:11:04] That's what I mean. [1:11:05] We're doing this and I'm going to do an executive order if necessary. [1:11:07] Yeah. [1:11:08] And then you're going to have to work backwards. [1:11:09] Yeah. [1:11:10] So, obviously, there was a reluctance to break things with this rapid successive attacks [1:11:23] against the Republicans. [1:11:24] They didn't do that. [1:11:25] But in that process, the Republicans had an opportunity to lie about what the ACA was. [1:11:30] They said it was death panels. [1:11:32] Death panels. [1:11:33] Yeah. [1:11:34] They said, obviously, one of the most radical propositions in the Affordable Care Act of [1:11:39] Obamacare was the provision that insurance companies, private healthcare providers, would [1:11:46] no longer be able to deny coverage to people for preexisting conditions. [1:11:50] Now, that is such an inhumane concept. [1:11:54] And it's so insane because we live in the post-Obamacare world where healthcare companies [1:11:59] can't do that, that people don't believe that that was the norm. [1:12:03] And people don't believe that Republicans, some of which are still in office, were actively [1:12:08] advocating against that. [1:12:09] Yeah. [1:12:10] It's such an inhumane thing. [1:12:12] It's just a normal part of Republican policy making that most Republicans, there's a poll [1:12:17] on this, Republican voters, don't believe the actual impact of the Republican legislative [1:12:24] agenda when they're asked about it. [1:12:26] Where they'll go, okay, you want to vote for Republicans? [1:12:29] Republicans are against abortion. [1:12:30] Abortion is murder. [1:12:31] They're like, yes, I'm against abortion. [1:12:33] Abortion is murder. [1:12:34] So, when they actually are faced with the impact, and we saw this happen in the lead up [1:12:38] to the 2024 election, when they recognize, oh my God, if we ban abortions, then my daughter [1:12:45] might not be able to get an emergency abortion to take care of an ectopic pregnancy. [1:12:51] This is now a real crisis, a real healthcare crisis. [1:12:54] They change their tune real quick. [1:12:57] So, they don't even believe how violent their legislative agenda is that they're pushing, [1:13:02] that they're advancing, the Republican voters. [1:13:06] And that is a real problem. [1:13:08] The other problem is, it's much easier to break things, especially if you are directionally [1:13:13] on the side of capital. [1:13:15] If you're a capitalist, if you're openly on the side of corporations, as Republicans are, [1:13:20] it's much easier to move in that direction. [1:13:22] Democrats, on the other hand, have a base that is, in some ways, maybe not a card-carrying [1:13:28] communist or whatever, but anti-capitalist in certain instances. [1:13:32] Like, they are against profit-seeking from corporations. [1:13:36] If you want regulations, like environmental regulations, to protect certain, you know, [1:13:43] natural resources like the water supply, all of a sudden, you're harming the profits of DuPont, right? [1:13:50] DuPont just wants to dump chemicals and, you know, whatever they want off of their factories [1:13:55] directly into the water supply and dilute the water supply with toxic pollutants. [1:14:00] That's very profitable for them to do so. [1:14:02] Now the Democrats, all of a sudden, have to punish DuPont. [1:14:05] Republicans never have to do that. [1:14:07] Republicans are never going to punish DuPont. [1:14:09] They say, no, it's great. [1:14:11] They say, oh... [1:14:12] They say it'll figure itself out most of the time. [1:14:13] It'll figure itself out, or they do this thing where they're like, transgender people, [1:14:17] and then they walk the other direction, right? [1:14:19] Like, they'll be like, oh, DuPont, chemical? [1:14:21] Okay. [1:14:22] Have you thought about trans people existing? [1:14:24] Isn't that weird and fucked up? [1:14:26] And then everyone's like, yeah, actually, that's right. [1:14:29] Transgender people do exist, and I fucking hate that. [1:14:32] The smartest thing you can do to distract people from a real issue is to bring up an issue [1:14:36] that doesn't actually affect their real lives, their daily lives, but is easier to grasp [1:14:43] and dispute or argue. [1:14:46] Yeah. [1:14:47] Because it's just, what is the chemical? [1:14:49] How much should a company be able to dispose? [1:14:51] Or where should they dispose? [1:14:52] Or how should they? [1:14:53] What are the classes of different chemicals? [1:14:55] And how far is a river from a residential place? [1:14:58] How many people are they employing? [1:14:59] What is toxicity? [1:15:00] How do we measure toxicity? [1:15:01] Has anyone died from it? [1:15:02] Yeah. [1:15:03] When do we measure the death? [1:15:04] Or is it related? [1:15:05] Is it a cause? [1:15:06] All of these things are difficult. [1:15:08] You know what's easy? [1:15:09] Going, is this person a man or woman, and should they be in my bathroom? [1:15:12] That's an easy thing. [1:15:13] Yeah. [1:15:14] But it feels like, and this is actually why I want to get back to it from your side. [1:15:17] The political side, for lack of a better term, it feels like it's metastasized in America. [1:15:25] But the world you're in feels like it's fledgling. [1:15:30] It feels like something's changing. [1:15:32] It feels like something is growing. [1:15:34] I want to tap into that world and understand a little bit more about it. [1:15:39] Why streaming? [1:15:41] You could have done anything else online, but why streaming in particular? [1:15:47] Well, when I started streaming, I feel like it was different overall. [1:15:53] We didn't have the claviculars of the world, right? [1:15:55] I mean, there were different versions of that even before my time, but they were nowhere near as popular. [1:16:00] It hadn't reached mass popularity. [1:16:02] I think it was Ninja that did the Drake collab of Fortnite. [1:16:05] And that's when people were like, whoa, what is this sector? [1:16:08] What is going on here? [1:16:09] And people started paying attention to it. [1:16:11] But at that point, most people were just playing video games. [1:16:14] I came in and I was like, I'm not going to play video games. [1:16:17] I'm not very good at video games. [1:16:18] I mean, I did play video games initially, but I was like, I want to do political commentary while I play video games. [1:16:25] And then stop playing video games altogether and just do political commentary. [1:16:28] So that was my evolution. [1:16:29] And the reason why I did that. [1:16:31] What games were you playing when you started? [1:16:32] Fortnite. [1:16:33] Oh, okay. [1:16:34] And then, you know, horror games that people love. [1:16:36] I thought I was playing hunger games. [1:16:37] Yeah. [1:16:40] I didn't know what you would like. [1:16:41] Clip that. [1:16:42] No. [1:16:43] Okay. [1:16:44] So you were, were you a gamer? [1:16:45] Yeah. [1:16:46] And I still play video games when I have time. [1:16:48] Sometimes. [1:16:49] You don't have time. [1:16:50] When do you have time? [1:16:51] We watch you. [1:16:52] You're on eight hours a day. [1:16:53] I play on stream or sometimes. [1:16:54] Okay. [1:16:55] So you still play on stream. [1:16:56] Yeah. [1:16:57] I still every now and then play, play games on stream, but nowhere near to the same degree [1:17:00] I used to. [1:17:01] Because at the time I was at the Young Turks, I wanted to place a community of my own. [1:17:07] I didn't want to just like work for someone. [1:17:09] I was like, I should have something on the side for myself, like something more creative. [1:17:13] And I also wanted to practice off the cuff speech because everything that I had done [1:17:18] prior to that was all pre-scripted. [1:17:19] I would write my own scripts. [1:17:21] I would turn them into articles for Huffington Post. [1:17:23] I was doing that and I was getting better at it, but I was really bad at off the cuff [1:17:29] commentary. [1:17:30] And I guess, you know, it's been eight years now. [1:17:34] It probably worked as I never seemed to shut the fuck up. [1:17:36] Weren't you worried about like making mistakes? [1:17:38] Weren't you worried? [1:17:39] Or do you embrace that in the, you know? [1:17:41] Yeah. [1:17:42] Because it's live. [1:17:43] It's happening in the moments. [1:17:44] Yeah. [1:17:45] No, it was definitely harrowing at first. [1:17:46] Yeah. [1:17:47] It was definitely terrifying. [1:17:48] Like putting up a stat, for instance, you know, if you're wrong, you go 40% of and [1:17:52] it's like, ah, it was actually 20%. [1:17:53] And it's, it's not that. [1:17:54] And it was actually people under the age of 50, not people under the age of 15. [1:17:58] And people, you know what I mean? [1:17:59] Mm-hmm. [1:18:00] Yeah. [1:18:01] That happens from time to time, but it's okay. [1:18:03] I mean, I'm a human being. [1:18:04] And when that does happen, I correct it. [1:18:06] Usually chat is also very on it. [1:18:08] Yeah. [1:18:09] Where they'll be like, oh, you got this stat wrong. [1:18:10] Oh, I like that. [1:18:11] I like that. [1:18:12] So there is definitely that. [1:18:13] But I, I have completely dropped that fear. [1:18:18] You can't have that fear if you're going to be a live broadcaster, a Twitch streamer. [1:18:21] And when you, when you're doing this, how do you, how do you strike the balance between [1:18:25] inflaming tensions and inspiring and mobilizing people? [1:18:32] Um, I mean, you got to do a bit of both. [1:18:36] I think that's a, it's a real problem with the democratic party is that they don't identify [1:18:39] enemies. [1:18:40] They try to get along with everybody else in their commentary. [1:18:42] And I think it's good to just say like, no, billionaires are bad. [1:18:45] You know, sometimes they could be, eh, all right. [1:18:48] Like Steyer is probably one of the better candidates in the California governor's race. [1:18:52] But, um, you know, Democrats are too afraid to identify who is actually, uh, creating problems [1:18:59] in society that many workers can feel. [1:19:02] So then do you think, do you think things are as bad as they are in America because the [1:19:07] Republicans govern the way they govern? [1:19:10] Or do you think it's gotten that way because Democrats are so feckless that Republicans [1:19:15] can't govern? [1:19:16] I don't even think it's the duopoly. [1:19:18] I think the duopoly is a, is a normal part of the process. [1:19:21] I look, I'm a socialist. [1:19:23] I think it's capitalism. [1:19:24] I think that is the real- [1:19:25] You think that's the fundamental issue? [1:19:26] Oh, 100%. [1:19:27] Yeah. [1:19:28] I think that, uh, like at its root, we have two liberal parties. [1:19:33] Yeah. [1:19:34] One is actually now turning into an illiberal party. [1:19:35] One is turning into a fascist party. [1:19:37] As, as fascism rose a hundred years ago when liberalism was failing, right? [1:19:41] Uh, liberalism is in crisis. [1:19:43] Liberal capitalist democracy is not working for a lot of people and they're looking for [1:19:47] alternatives. [1:19:48] And reactionaries are taking advantage of that crisis by, uh, uh, reasserting dominance [1:19:53] and control in the same exact way that Adolf Hitler did, same exact way that Mussolini [1:19:57] did when fascism was first being implemented in Europe, uh, as this revolutionary movement [1:20:03] that would counter the nefarious forces of socialism, communism, and trade unionism, because [1:20:08] that if, if, uh, if left to their own devices, if they were successful, would truly disrupt [1:20:15] the, the hierarchy of capital. [1:20:18] And that's why these movements, these fashion movements were able to go to small businesses, [1:20:22] petite bourgeois, and also big businesses, uh, and, and, you know, these industrialist, [1:20:26] uh, uh, capitalists and, and gain a lot of allegiances from these groups. [1:20:32] And they were able to get liberals to concede as well. [1:20:35] Uh, and, and that's how they reasserted dominance. [1:20:39] So I hear what you're saying, but I, I think some people might hear that and go, so are you saying [1:20:44] that we then go to communism? And I don't think that's what you're saying if I hear you correctly. [1:20:48] I mean, I, look, I, I say I'm, I'm not a communist, but people call me that. [1:20:51] And I don't have any problems with communism. I think it's a, uh, is a decent endpoint. [1:20:55] Uh, you know, classless, moneyless, uh, borderless society, Star Trek universe. [1:21:00] Uh, whenever I say that people go, how could he, how could he even mention this? [1:21:05] But I feel like if you, if you think about it, like, I don't think that's a bad way to live. [1:21:08] If it, if it was implemented, so this is, this is where, um, I struggle with it as I go. [1:21:14] We oftentimes will judge a system based on the examples that we have of it. [1:21:20] Mm-hmm. [1:21:21] Even if those examples are not accurate. [1:21:23] Yeah. [1:21:24] Does that make sense? [1:21:25] So when, so this is. [1:21:26] Yeah, there's been, there's been many attempts and. [1:21:27] Yeah, yeah, yeah. [1:21:28] And a lot of that has led to failure for a multitude of different reasons. [1:21:31] There's mismanagement. [1:21:32] Sabotage being one of the biggest sometimes. [1:21:33] Yes, of course. [1:21:34] We have to, we always have to acknowledge the interference. [1:21:35] Yeah. [1:21:36] Because when people will talk about capitalism, they will always espouse it's like a students. [1:21:43] Mm-hmm. [1:21:44] Oh, but look at this and look at this and, and that is correct. [1:21:46] But when people will talk about socialism, you know, communism may be more, is, is a harder [1:21:50] one because I, I have yet to see an example of communism that wasn't interfered with or sabotaged. [1:21:55] So I don't, I don't know personally. [1:21:56] Well, but even in spite of that sabotage, there is one successful example of, or a couple successful [1:22:02] examples of countries that are run by communist parties. [1:22:04] Yeah. [1:22:05] Um, it's obviously not, uh, at its end stage or anything like that, but China is, uh, is [1:22:10] run by a communist party, a Vietnam, uh, Cuba also run by a communist party. [1:22:16] Now, obviously there's varying degrees of successes here and varying degrees of failure successes [1:22:21] in comparison to like their starting point, right. [1:22:24] Or, uh, at their, at, in their heyday, right. [1:22:27] Like the Cuban, uh, the Cuban revolution was unbelievably successful. [1:22:31] And that's precisely the reason why the American government sought to punish them endlessly. [1:22:36] And they were only able to survive throughout that process because the USSR came in and was [1:22:40] like, we're going to put our nukes here. [1:22:42] Did you get a subpoena about Cuba? [1:22:44] Uh, I have not received it yet. [1:22:46] I only heard about, uh, a subpoena being delivered to me from Fox news. [1:22:51] But what? [1:22:52] But I haven't gotten it. [1:22:53] No, you can't be serious. [1:22:54] Yeah. [1:22:55] You haven't received anything. [1:22:56] No. [1:22:58] But all the news is saying that you have received something. [1:23:01] Yeah. [1:23:03] It goes beyond that. [1:23:04] They are claiming that I'm a subversive. [1:23:07] Uh, I am a foreign agent that hasn't registered with Farrah. [1:23:12] Uh, and it's really funny because like, like I'm pretty open about my ideology. [1:23:17] Like I'm, I'm a socialist and I think we should not kill the, the Cuban population. [1:23:23] I, we've been starving them for 60 years. [1:23:25] I think it's unbelievable. [1:23:26] It's a heinous, a war crime. [1:23:27] Uh, and we should stop that. [1:23:29] And then they go, oh, he must be getting paid by the Cuban government to say this. [1:23:33] And it's really funny. [1:23:34] Cause it's like with what money they're broke. [1:23:37] They have no money. [1:23:38] Cigars? [1:23:39] Like they don't have anything. [1:23:41] I mean, I guess they have cigars. [1:23:43] I don't know. [1:23:44] I didn't even, I didn't even get to, uh, experience that when I was there, but. [1:23:47] How long were you there for? [1:23:48] I was there for two days. [1:23:49] And I just, you back to back interviews. [1:23:51] We were there on a humanitarian aid mission with progressive international co-pink and, [1:23:55] and, you know, with like 600 delegates, uh, politicians, uh, Corbin was there, numerous [1:24:01] other people, uh, and journalists as well. [1:24:04] And I got a journalism visa on top of the humanitarian aid mission that we were, uh, accomplishing. [1:24:09] Uh, so it's doubly messed up that the admin is, is, uh, coming after me, but. [1:24:13] Yeah, because you see the story, even now, the way you told it, the story doesn't, [1:24:16] it makes it seem like you and one other person went to Cuba. [1:24:20] Yeah. [1:24:21] Because you were paid by an organization there. [1:24:22] Yeah. [1:24:23] The two of you, only two people. [1:24:24] Yeah. [1:24:25] Madea Benjamin, uh, the founder of co-pink. [1:24:26] Yeah. [1:24:27] It's just the two of you. [1:24:28] You went there. [1:24:29] Yeah. [1:24:30] And then you conspired with the group state sponsored mission. [1:24:32] Yeah. [1:24:33] And they were like, Hey man, here's some money, Hasan. [1:24:35] We need you to do this to America. [1:24:36] And then you were like, all right, I'm heading back now. [1:24:38] Remember when earlier we were talking about how they were like, Oh, have you ever communicated [1:24:42] with like a member of Hamas? [1:24:43] Yeah. [1:24:44] Or anything like that. [1:24:45] So Cuba's technically considered a state sponsor of terror, but of course I've communicated with [1:24:50] members of the Cuban government. [1:24:52] I interviewed them on camera. [1:24:54] Carlos Cosio is literally the vice foreign minister. [1:24:57] And I interviewed him for my documentary. [1:25:00] So it's not only not illegal, but it's been out there for months. [1:25:04] So they're like, Oh, but, but what if that's, what if we decided that that was illegal? [1:25:09] You know, that it, a lot of this conversation revolves around people's stupidity and people's [1:25:13] lack of understanding of how things work, where they'll describe. [1:25:16] This is something I talk about with conservatives all the time. [1:25:19] They describe something as though it's nefarious. [1:25:22] They do this all the time. [1:25:23] They rely on people's lack of understanding of, of complex subjects or even sometimes simple [1:25:28] subjects. [1:25:29] Or one example I was using is transgender surgeries. [1:25:32] They describe this process as like gruesome mutilation where they're like, Oh, the doctors [1:25:36] come in with a hacksaw and like they cut off body parts and all this stuff. [1:25:39] And it's like, yeah, that's just every type of surgery. [1:25:42] You're just describing like, can you imagine if you were like, well, open heart surgery, they [1:25:47] come in with a hammer and a pick and they just like open up your chest. [1:25:50] Oh, and they have like a, what are they? [1:25:51] The jaws of life. [1:25:52] They like rip your, your, your rib cage apart. [1:25:54] They rip your rib cage apart. [1:25:55] They split you in two and they, yeah. [1:25:56] Yeah. [1:25:57] They cut you up. [1:25:58] Imagine if you were like, I hate open heart surgery because it scares me. [1:26:01] It's like we, no one should be able to get an open heart surgery. [1:26:04] It scares me, but that's how Republicans operate on a lot of issues. [1:26:08] And that's kind of what they're doing right now with the story. [1:26:11] Um, not only did this subpoena not even arrive, let's say it's happening. [1:26:14] Right. [1:26:15] And I've described it on in great detail to my audience. [1:26:18] I've talked about my experiences in Cuba. [1:26:20] I did a documentary on it, all this stuff. [1:26:22] Right. [1:26:23] They'll take pieces of my commentary and be like, he's leaking all the secrets. [1:26:29] He's leaking the, the, the pay structure that exists. [1:26:32] And it's like, no, that's not everything that I'm mentioning is like publicly available information [1:26:37] that you can find on Wikipedia, but because people are so stupid and, and they're so ready [1:26:43] to, to think that this is some sort of like sinister operation. [1:26:47] They go, oh my God, he's already turned a, you know, state witness. [1:26:51] Yeah. [1:26:52] Oh, he's so stupid for snitching before he even talks to his lawyers. [1:26:55] What an idiot. [1:26:56] And it's like, or maybe nothing that I'm saying is illegal. [1:26:59] Have you thought about that? [1:27:01] But I think we live in a world now where the accusation is more powerful than the prosecution. [1:27:08] Oh yeah. [1:27:09] Prosecutions don't matter anymore. [1:27:10] Yeah. [1:27:11] If you, if you think about it in the world we live in, cause the, the, the swell of what [1:27:15] happens on in media and online is so big. [1:27:20] It used to be the same with the newspaper, front page, this person has done this many months [1:27:26] later retraction. [1:27:27] Actually they didn't or a small little article in the corner. [1:27:30] Now in that world, it was bad enough because it was front page versus page for slight retraction, [1:27:35] or just an update on the story. [1:27:37] Now it's the whole internet. [1:27:40] Yeah. [1:27:41] It's tick tock. [1:27:42] It's Instagram. [1:27:43] It's Facebook. [1:27:44] It's, you know, Google search results, web pages, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. [1:27:48] Yeah. [1:27:49] And with AI. [1:27:50] Massive. [1:27:51] Massive. [1:27:52] And it just gets like, yeah, it just gets amplified and blown up and amplified and blown up. [1:27:54] By the time it's verified, it's finished really. [1:27:59] And there's also a lot of like biases that people have where they constantly are seeking [1:28:05] out confirmation bias. [1:28:06] Yeah. [1:28:07] And, and they, they want to confirm their priors no matter what. [1:28:10] So like, I'll give you one example. [1:28:12] One of the most common things that I receive from people is criticisms that I receive from [1:28:17] people is like, oh, you're a socialist, but you're wealthy. [1:28:19] Right. [1:28:20] And it's true. [1:28:21] I am very successful. [1:28:22] I'm very fortunate. [1:28:23] Right. [1:28:24] But it's not at odds with my worldview in any way, shape or form. [1:28:27] It's at odds with how you perceive my worldview. [1:28:30] Right. [1:28:31] Deng Xiaoping who said socialism isn't a, uh, is it about poverty to be riches, to be glorious. [1:28:36] It's misattributed to him, but he never corrected the record. [1:28:39] He said something similar to that. [1:28:40] But, um, but at the end of the day, like I want everyone to have autonomy. [1:28:44] I want everyone to, to be able to live comfortable lives. [1:28:46] Like that's what I'm advancing. [1:28:47] That's what I'm advocating for. [1:28:48] That's my perfect society. [1:28:50] It's not about everyone being like equally poor or starving. [1:28:53] You made that up. [1:28:54] I never said that that's what I wanted. [1:28:56] Who would want that? [1:28:57] Right. [1:28:58] And yet because of this, like, uh, a pre-established notion that, uh, socialism is supposed to be [1:29:03] a poverty cult, they constantly advance this narrative. [1:29:06] And in order to make this narrative stick, they'll be like, oh, he's a nepotism recipient, which is true. [1:29:10] I, I am a nepotism recipient. [1:29:12] I worked for my uncle's, uh, YouTube show. [1:29:15] Not exactly CNN. [1:29:16] Right. [1:29:17] It was a 26 person YouTube show. [1:29:18] Damn burn uncle. [1:29:19] I mean, but it's true. [1:29:20] It was a 26, I was a 26th employee on a- [1:29:22] Uncle's like, come on. [1:29:23] Come on. [1:29:24] Come on. [1:29:25] I didn't deserve that. [1:29:26] It was a, I was a 26th employee on a YouTube show. [1:29:28] Right. [1:29:29] Called the young Turks. [1:29:30] Um, it definitely helped. [1:29:31] And I always will recognize that, but then they'll expand on it and they'll be like, [1:29:37] well, his father is really wealthy. [1:29:39] It's not true. [1:29:40] I take care of my parents and I'm very fortunate to be able to do that. [1:29:42] It's my duty. [1:29:43] And I love that. [1:29:44] And I love them. [1:29:45] Um, but because there's no evidence of this, uh, the idea that like my father is just [1:29:50] like multi-billionaire, which they claim they've just generated evidence through AI articles. [1:29:55] So now when you look at the SEO, if you're stupid enough not to check or cross reference [1:30:00] this stuff, there's articles out there from like Hindustan times. [1:30:03] There's like, uh, Hasan Piker's father is a billionaire. [1:30:06] That's a terrible source. [1:30:07] And it's really funny. [1:30:08] It's on the Hindustan Times. [1:30:09] Yeah. [1:30:10] I've read everything on the Hindustan Times. [1:30:11] Yeah. [1:30:12] But it's really interesting because it's like, if, if my father was a billionaire, he would [1:30:18] be the third wealthiest person in Turkey. [1:30:21] Like that would be on a list. [1:30:23] Like you would know about it. [1:30:25] It would be publicly available information. [1:30:27] It's, it's so ridiculous, but yet they still advance it because they're so desperate to, [1:30:31] to confirm their priors and to justify their worldview because they never want to think [1:30:35] about the message. [1:30:36] Don't press anything. [1:30:38] We've got more. [1:30:39] What now? [1:30:40] After this. [1:30:41] This message is a paid partnership with Apple Card. [1:30:47] Imagine this. [1:30:48] You're at a checkout counter. [1:30:49] You're ready to pay when you realize you don't have your wallet. [1:30:54] Dun, dun, dun. [1:30:56] You could drive all the way back home and you could get it, but you remember that you have [1:31:01] your Apple Card on your iPhone. [1:31:03] So you can tap to pay with Apple Pay. [1:31:05] Imagine that no need to carry a wallet, but you know, one of the things I do like about [1:31:09] having my card on my phone is we live in a world where you lose your card and then you [1:31:12] don't know where it is. [1:31:13] And then you're like, what do I do? [1:31:15] Well, if your phone is connected to your card and your card is connected to your phone, [1:31:18] you know what's going on. [1:31:19] The best thing about having the Apple Card connected to your phone is you know what every [1:31:22] transaction is. [1:31:23] You know, like sometimes you're like, what did I spend this month? [1:31:25] The Apple Card will show you. [1:31:26] One month I had spent an obscene amount of money ordering videos online. [1:31:31] Just videos. [1:31:32] They were just videos. [1:31:33] What kind of videos? [1:31:34] That's not the point. [1:31:35] Sure. [1:31:36] The point is I knew that I didn't want to order those videos anymore because I'd spent [1:31:41] too much money on it. [1:31:43] It was videos on how to not spend money online. [1:31:46] I felt like I'd been duped. [1:31:48] Point is Apple showed me what I was spending my money on and I was able to change my spending [1:31:52] habits and you can do it too. [1:31:54] I earn up to 3% daily cash back on every purchase with my Apple Card. [1:31:58] That's unlimited daily cash back no matter where I shop. [1:32:01] What a refreshing change of pace. [1:32:03] Apply for Apple Card in the Wallet app on your iPhone. [1:32:07] Subject to credit approval, Apple Card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA, Salt Lake City branch [1:32:11] terms and more at applecard.com. [1:32:13] Did you read the interview, I think it was in the New Yorker, the CEO of Floodify. [1:32:31] If you haven't. [1:32:32] Oh, I know what you're talking about. [1:32:33] Yeah, the CEO of Floodify gave a really amazing interview about what he does, right? [1:32:41] And Floodify is basically a clipping service online where they will make anything seem more [1:32:50] popular than it is, right? [1:32:53] But the way they do it is not using traditional advertising. [1:32:56] So you have an album that you want to release, but you're an artist who only has like 50,000 [1:33:01] fans, you go to a company like Floodify, they're one of the companies that do this. [1:33:05] You pay them a certain amount of money, and that money will determine like how much reach [1:33:09] you're going to get. [1:33:10] And then they have a network, and I mean like an insane network that blows it up across [1:33:18] quote unquote real people having real opinions about your music. [1:33:23] And you can seem bigger than you are as an artist, which then sort of catches its own [1:33:28] fire, because that's how fame works, and that's how news works, and that's how... [1:33:33] Wow. [1:33:34] Now on that level... [1:33:35] Clavicular. [1:33:36] This is how Clavicular became famous. [1:33:38] Yeah. [1:33:39] So you think, now you think, oh, I mean, who cares? [1:33:41] Music, you want to... [1:33:42] This is where it gets sinister, right? [1:33:44] And we really have to worry about this in society. [1:33:46] It is for politics too. [1:33:48] For everything. [1:33:49] No way. [1:33:50] A South African influencer put this up recently on their page. [1:33:55] She has a full-time job, but she also does makeup and clothing, but just really for fun. [1:34:01] And then she put out this thing just telling her fans, she's like, hey, I don't know if [1:34:06] this has happened to anyone else, but this is a weird thing that I'm experiencing. [1:34:10] Someone's been sending me emails over the last year-ish, where they're offering me money [1:34:15] just to talk shit about South Africa. [1:34:17] They'll pay me upfront. [1:34:18] I never got that email. [1:34:19] They ask for nothing in return. [1:34:20] I'm doing this for free, yeah. [1:34:22] They pay me upfront. [1:34:24] They ask for nothing in return. [1:34:26] No way. [1:34:27] And they don't give you a script. [1:34:29] Yeah. [1:34:31] Be organic. [1:34:32] All they want is for you. [1:34:34] And when you put these pieces together, you look at the Floodify guy. [1:34:37] I'm not saying he does that. [1:34:38] No, yeah, yeah. [1:34:39] But he did say in the article that Eric Adams' team wanted to pay him. [1:34:43] And he doesn't say whether they did or didn't do it. [1:34:45] But he says what they wanted him to do was create a campaign of New Yorkers complaining [1:34:51] about Mamdani and all the things that are going horribly and what could go. [1:34:55] No, no, really. [1:34:56] And he was like, we need a groundswell campaign. [1:34:58] Eric Adams' team wanted this. [1:35:00] And when you realize that, you go, guys, we're on the precipice of something that I [1:35:04] don't think society is ready for. [1:35:06] Because it's one thing if we go like, oh, Hassan took money from Cuba, but it's a lie, etc. [1:35:12] It's a different thing if we think we're living in a world where the people around us are having [1:35:17] an experience that they're not. [1:35:18] We live in a world where we think our neighbors have pitchforks ready, but they don't. [1:35:23] They don't. [1:35:24] We live in a world where we go like, oh, man, everyone around me is scared. [1:35:26] There's crime in New York, but everyone actually doesn't feel that way. [1:35:29] But that is happening right now. [1:35:30] They are doing that. [1:35:31] But that's what I mean. [1:35:32] But I'm saying as that compounds, it goes beyond just politics and business. [1:35:37] It goes to like the erosion of society, which then, as you know, because you've studied [1:35:42] it, leads to the ultimate forms of fascism. [1:35:47] Because if everyone is scared of everything and nobody trusts anyone, we then look to one [1:35:52] strong man who will protect us all and create the calm that we need. [1:35:56] And voter apathy is a... [1:35:58] Yeah. [1:35:59] Why would you vote? [1:36:00] Because it's all ringed anyway. [1:36:01] So you don't want to vote. [1:36:02] You don't want to participate. [1:36:03] You don't want to do things. [1:36:05] It's... [1:36:06] And you want to punish people. [1:36:07] You want to punish people that you've been taught are responsible for the pain that [1:36:10] you're experiencing. [1:36:11] And that's why I say it's important to also identify the systems of oppression rather than [1:36:17] to let it dangle as though there is nothing wrong at all, or even sometimes identify certain [1:36:22] things that are wrong, but never talk about who's responsible for it. [1:36:25] Because that leaves an opportunity for the Republicans to go back and recenter that anger [1:36:31] and refocus that frustration at vulnerable populations, transgender people, immigrants. [1:36:36] Some of the people that have no defense in American society at all. [1:36:39] Some of the people that are just contributing to the American working class in very meaningful [1:36:45] ways in our productive output and not even getting anything in return for it. [1:36:49] Yeah. [1:36:50] And yet we have designed society in a way where like, that's who's responsible for all of [1:36:54] the angst, for all the suffering that you're going through. [1:36:56] And it's certainly not the billionaires. [1:36:58] It's certainly not the mega corporations. [1:37:00] And when both parties are designed in a way where they defend corporate interests, the [1:37:06] amount of defense that you can, the amount of countering that you can do, the amount of [1:37:10] counter messaging you can do against the right wing reactionary thought is going to be very [1:37:15] limited. [1:37:16] And that's what I think is a big problem with the Democratic Party's platform in general, [1:37:21] where they can't just say it's corporations of the wealthy that's making the system the way [1:37:25] it is, dumb ass. [1:37:26] What are you talking about? [1:37:27] I think a random trans person is responsible for you not getting healthcare. [1:37:31] Are you fucking stupid? [1:37:32] You're going to get healthcare. [1:37:33] We're going to give you healthcare. [1:37:34] That's my advocacy. [1:37:35] I'm like, we're going to give you healthcare. [1:37:36] You need healthcare. [1:37:37] We're going to build a house for you in the house. [1:37:39] You're racist. [1:37:40] Okay. [1:37:41] You can't be racist any longer. [1:37:42] We're not going to deny you healthcare or a roof over your head because you're racist, [1:37:47] but you got to vote for the not racist party who will give you those things. [1:37:51] Some people will look at that and go, no, I'm so racist. [1:37:53] I don't want a roof over my head. [1:37:55] But not many people are going to make that bargain. [1:37:58] I don't think that'll happen. [1:37:59] I don't think that'll happen. [1:38:00] We saw that with, I mean, not that we were there, but who was it? [1:38:03] Chairman Fred Hampton, right? [1:38:04] Yeah. [1:38:05] Black Panther Party, where he went, let's go to these white people who are racist. [1:38:10] And they were like fully racist. [1:38:11] And he said, you're poor. [1:38:14] We're poor. [1:38:15] Ask yourself a question. [1:38:16] If we are the N-words that you call us and we're against you, why are we also poor? [1:38:24] Shouldn't we have the money? [1:38:26] And why are you poor? [1:38:27] So if we're poor and you're poor, somebody is tricking both of us. [1:38:30] So he's like, I'm going to work together. [1:38:31] We're going to get you food. [1:38:32] We're going to try and eat food as well. [1:38:33] And then let's figure this thing out. [1:38:35] And then shortly after that, he was dead. [1:38:37] Yeah. [1:38:38] And murdered him in his sleep. [1:38:39] Yeah. [1:38:40] Because it is the upending of that thing. [1:38:45] There's so much money in it, man. [1:38:47] Yeah. [1:38:48] And this is again- [1:38:49] A Marxist-Leninist, by the way. [1:38:51] This is where it's important to throw an addendum in, by the way. [1:38:55] They make it seem like you're saying no one should earn money. [1:39:00] No one should do well. [1:39:01] No one should prosper. [1:39:02] No one should prosper. [1:39:03] You're like, no, no, no, no, no, no. [1:39:05] What we're saying is, in a system where money is like water, the water should flow, right? [1:39:13] Mm-hmm. [1:39:14] And in the same way, countries that share major rivers have to have an agreement that the water cannot be stopped by any one country. [1:39:22] Yes, yeah. [1:39:23] They have to have agreements on that. [1:39:24] You know that, right? [1:39:25] Mm-hmm. [1:39:26] Because one country who's at the top of a river can just block the water, and then all the other countries- [1:39:29] That's literally an act of war. [1:39:31] Mm-hmm. [1:39:32] They go, no, you can only block this much for your dams, and you can block this, and then the next country can block this much. [1:39:36] The same understanding should be had, in my opinion, of money. [1:39:40] Because we forget that we create systems now that sort of have crippled what money was supposed to do. [1:39:46] It was an exchange of time and debt. [1:39:48] To trade. [1:39:49] Yeah, to trade. [1:39:50] But if somebody can create like a- [1:39:52] A dam. [1:39:53] A dam, and they've got robots that earn the money, and then machines that make the money, and then robots that- [1:39:59] And the money keeps going here, and then they earn interest on the money, and then they get loans on the money, but then they don't pay taxes on that money. [1:40:05] But then we pay the taxes on the money, because all of us sitting everywhere here- [1:40:08] Yeah. [1:40:09] We pay the taxes on it. [1:40:10] Then you go like, what are we building? [1:40:13] What are we, you know what I mean? [1:40:14] Like where are we ending up? [1:40:15] We're building wealth for the upper class, for the capital-owning class in American society, and in the Western society generally. [1:40:20] Yeah, but it's like one, and people don't understand how small that number is. [1:40:22] Oh yeah. [1:40:23] But that's what I want. [1:40:24] I want systemic change. [1:40:25] And I've never been an advocate for adventurism. [1:40:28] That's not a Marxist tradition at all. [1:40:30] As a matter of fact, many theorists have regularly criticized adventurism, which many Americans don't even know what it is. [1:40:37] But that's like, Luigi Mangione is adventurism, like a person that decide- [1:40:42] Allegedly. [1:40:43] Allegedly, thank you. [1:40:44] You're right. [1:40:45] A person that decide to take matters into their own hands. [1:40:46] Right. [1:40:47] The propaganda of the deed is what anarchists believe. [1:40:51] I don't. [1:40:52] I want to be organized, and I want to change society with diligent and disciplined organizing. [1:41:00] Last thing I'll ask you, because it's interesting that we've had two guests sitting at this table who've shared a different opinion on it. [1:41:08] And I think I know which way you're going to lean, but- [1:41:10] Who are the two guests? [1:41:12] Pete Buttigieg and Bernie Sanders. [1:41:14] Oh God. [1:41:15] Okay. [1:41:16] I asked Bernie Sanders. [1:41:17] So I asked Pete Buttigieg, I was talking about like government, and I guess him and I had a bit of a disagreement. [1:41:22] I was saying, and I do believe this, I said, people have been made to believe that government is inept, but that ineptitude was manufactured so that it could be privatized. [1:41:33] Right? [1:41:34] And we've seen this in South Africa. [1:41:35] 100% correct. [1:41:36] We've seen this in the UK. [1:41:37] We see this in many countries. [1:41:38] Wait, did he disagree with that? [1:41:39] No, no. [1:41:40] He was like, yeah, I guess to a certain degree. [1:41:41] And then I was like, the government is supposed to do the thing. [1:41:44] People forget the reason we made a government, it's a brilliant idea, is because we could not all individually go work on the roads. [1:41:51] So we said, hey, let's all put our money together. [1:41:53] Let's pool together. [1:41:54] For the roads. [1:41:55] Yeah. [1:41:56] Government is supposed to do things. [1:41:57] And then he was like, ah, no, but I think there's many things that government is not that good at doing. [1:42:00] Then I was like, name one thing. [1:42:02] What did he say? [1:42:03] He said a few, and I disagreed, honestly. [1:42:04] I was like, I don't think the government's bad at that. [1:42:06] I think the government can run a great airline. [1:42:08] I think the government can run a great railway service. [1:42:10] They do. [1:42:11] I think the government can run a great healthcare service. [1:42:12] I think the government can run great education. [1:42:14] You know why I say this? [1:42:15] Because it did at some point. [1:42:17] Yeah. [1:42:18] And it still does. [1:42:19] People forget that. [1:42:20] It still does. [1:42:21] In most other places. [1:42:22] We just don't think about it. [1:42:23] You know how many people who fight against public education now were publicly educated? [1:42:28] Yeah. [1:42:29] Yeah. [1:42:30] They're going to say public education doesn't work. [1:42:31] But the smarts that they're using to argue against us. [1:42:34] Come from there. [1:42:35] Come from public education. [1:42:36] They're the people who will say, oh no, the government. [1:42:38] Yeah, but the house that your parents bought came from a fund that the government made possible [1:42:43] for you. [1:42:44] The school that you went to was made possible by the government. [1:42:47] Hawk. [1:42:48] So this was my, I am vehemently opposed to that argument because I think it's a trick. [1:42:54] I think the trick is you first make a government inept so that people believe it cannot do anything. [1:42:59] Then you make that government sell off its parts to private companies and billionaires. [1:43:05] You're describing neoliberalism that took shape in America under Ronald Reagan and also Margaret [1:43:09] Thatcher. [1:43:10] And then when they have all of it, they then now decide how the thing works. [1:43:14] Yeah. [1:43:15] They charge you as much as they want for electricity. [1:43:16] And the tail wags the dog. [1:43:17] What are you going to do? [1:43:18] Who can live without electricity? [1:43:19] The price has to go up. [1:43:20] Yeah. [1:43:21] What are we supposed to do? [1:43:22] The tail wags the dog. [1:43:23] So that was that side of it. [1:43:25] There's inelastic demand for healthcare. [1:43:26] Exactly. [1:43:27] That's why it has to be run by the government in some way, shape or form. [1:43:30] It has to be controlled by the government at the very least, if it's not entirely funded [1:43:35] and facilitated by the government, like the nationalized healthcare system in the UK. [1:43:39] And at which point you see this in the UK right now, they try to cripple the funding [1:43:45] to the NHS over and over again. [1:43:47] They implement austerity so it's worse off overall. [1:43:52] And then people are silly enough to advocate for a privatized version of that. [1:43:57] And that's what the reform party is doing right now. [1:43:59] The reform party wants to implement austerity on NHS. [1:44:02] They won't say it out loud and they want to privatize it. [1:44:05] But why do people vote for the reform party? [1:44:08] They vote for the reform party because they think that immigrants are responsible for all [1:44:13] of the issues that they're experiencing in the UK. [1:44:15] But you know why it's easy to do that though? [1:44:18] I have a lot of sympathy for anyone who experiences that and I'll tell you why. [1:44:22] I see this in South Africa. [1:44:25] I've seen it in the UK. [1:44:26] You know, places I've traveled to and places I've lived in. [1:44:29] You're like, immigrants are bad. [1:44:32] No, people forget this, right? [1:44:35] People forget that your ability to see or not see an immigrant changes dramatically [1:44:44] with your standard of living and how things are going. [1:44:47] I think people really take that for granted. [1:44:51] When you're doing well, when your economy is doing well, when things around you are doing well, [1:44:55] you'll be shocked at how you don't notice immigrants. [1:44:58] They're sort of silently existing in your world because things are going well because you don't see them. [1:45:04] You don't notice the guy at the corner shop has an accent in that way when you've got enough money [1:45:09] and the prices are affordable and your wages have kept up. [1:45:12] You don't notice the immigrant in the hospital bed next to you when you're also getting care. [1:45:18] You don't notice. [1:45:20] But a system that is failing its people is inevitably going to have its people notice the people who are not, quote unquote, its people. [1:45:29] Because they're like, wait, what is, I don't understand. [1:45:32] You're saying we don't even have enough for us. [1:45:34] Yeah. [1:45:35] Then why do we have enough for them? [1:45:36] And I think of it genuinely through the most personal lens. [1:45:41] When we had food in my house and my mom was always, always like, please go give those street kids this food. [1:45:49] Give that homeless guy this. [1:45:50] She did that her whole life. [1:45:51] She still does that, right? [1:45:53] I remember in my life when we were doing well in the house, like when we had a full fridge, I never noticed it. [1:46:00] I would run over giddy to that guy and I'd give him bread and stew and some money. [1:46:05] I didn't notice it. [1:46:06] It's when my mom opened her purse when it was empty, took out her last 10 rand notes and said, go give it to that guy. [1:46:14] And I was like, this woman has lost her goddamn mind. [1:46:17] Genuinely. [1:46:18] Yeah. [1:46:19] I mean, I still think she's amazing for like doing that, but I won't lie to you as a kid. [1:46:22] I was like, nah, lady. [1:46:23] I was like, that guy there, he should not be getting our money in any way, shape or we have nothing. [1:46:28] Yeah. [1:46:29] And then she was like, no, no, you think we have nothing. [1:46:32] We don't have nothing yet. [1:46:33] He has nothing. [1:46:34] We're just doing badly right now. [1:46:36] But the feeling I had towards that person, I can directly correlate to the purse situation in my house. [1:46:47] And so I go, it is inevitable that these people will, I don't even think they're silly to be honest. [1:46:54] I think they're human. [1:46:55] I'll be honest with you. [1:46:56] Yeah. [1:46:58] I don't see how you could not hate immigrants when someone is crippling a system around them. [1:47:02] I think you described it very well. [1:47:04] Depending on which side of the spectrum socially you are, you describe an immigrant differently. [1:47:09] If you're doing well, you have a foreign friend. [1:47:13] If you are not doing too good and it feels like a system is failing and benefiting them, then you see foreigners. [1:47:19] Completely. [1:47:20] Right? [1:47:21] Yeah. [1:47:22] Completely. [1:47:23] Wealthy racists out there who are, I think, advancing this propaganda and specifically directing the attention back to immigrants. [1:47:32] Yeah. [1:47:33] Either because naturally people start being more tribalistic in times of economic struggle. [1:47:37] Yeah. [1:47:38] Or because they're being propagandized. [1:47:40] They don't look at them. [1:47:41] They also don't want to look at them. [1:47:42] Yeah, exactly. [1:47:43] Because no one wants the attention to be directed at them. [1:47:45] No. [1:47:46] So they go, oh, it's the woke feminism or it's the transgenders or it's the immigrants that are responsible for it. [1:47:51] It's the black people that are responsible for it in America during, you know, reconstruction. [1:47:57] Because any kind of solidarity that focuses on people's class interests remind people that 99% of the public is a part of one class and only 1% of the public is a part of another class. [1:48:12] And most people are just working for that 1%. [1:48:15] The overwhelming majority are. [1:48:17] And that's a terrifying prospect for the capitalist because as I like to say at these rallies I go to, you know, they got the money but we got the people. [1:48:26] And that is something that they want to squash before it becomes a big problem. [1:48:34] And that's how I found myself the recipient of allegedly a subpoena that I haven't received yet that Fox News says I have. [1:48:43] And now there's like this additional cycle of misinformation coming out where they're like, he's terrified. [1:48:48] He's actually shook. [1:48:49] Like the New York Post and Fox News are writing articles about how I'm like terrified. [1:48:54] How much attention do you pay to that stuff, by the way? [1:48:56] I mean, I have to pay attention to it. [1:48:58] It's mainstream media, especially if there's no opposition from like the liberal side. [1:49:03] Associated Press is not writing about the situation. [1:49:05] Okay, okay. [1:49:06] So no one's correcting it is what you're saying. [1:49:07] Yeah, if no one's correcting it, the only thing that's coming out is New York Post, Fox News and whatnot. [1:49:10] And I think that's a very strange situation to be in because then most people are looking at that and the conversation being dominated by this negative framing. [1:49:19] The other thing was what Bernie Sanders said. [1:49:23] I asked him, I said, do you think, I'm paraphrasing and, you know, because I don't want to misstate what he said, but I basically asked him if the Democratic Party was one party. [1:49:36] And he was, he was like, his answer was essentially no. [1:49:40] Yeah. [1:49:41] He was like, the thing that I'm doing. [1:49:42] Do it in his accent. [1:49:43] Is not, I can't do Bernie. [1:49:44] I can't do Bernie well. [1:49:45] I'll try. [1:49:46] I'll keep practicing. [1:49:47] I'll try. [1:49:48] I'll try. [1:49:49] I'll try. [1:49:50] He talks to Donald Trump. [1:49:51] That's why he's so good at Donald Trump. [1:49:53] No, no. [1:49:54] That's how he said it. [1:49:55] He said, no, no. [1:49:56] That's how he said it. [1:49:57] He was like, no. [1:49:58] No. [1:49:59] No trouble. [1:50:00] And I'll tell you why. [1:50:01] No. [1:50:02] Not bad. [1:50:03] But Bernie's like, he's got a very specific thing. [1:50:04] No. [1:50:05] And I'll tell you why. [1:50:06] Let me tell you why. [1:50:07] Yeah. [1:50:08] He always does this. [1:50:09] Let me tell you why. [1:50:10] Right? [1:50:11] No. [1:50:14] But he was like, no. [1:50:15] From your, from your position, I assume you'd have the same point of view, but I wonder what you think the remedy to that is, right? [1:50:21] The Democratic Party for a long time in America was, it was a coalition of people and it feels like that coalition is slowly coming unraveled. [1:50:28] Yeah. [1:50:29] Right? [1:50:30] So what do you see as a remedy if there is a remedy? [1:50:35] There's different schools of thought on this. [1:50:37] A lot of people on the, on the socialist side. [1:50:40] I want yours though. [1:50:41] Recognize. [1:50:42] Yeah. [1:50:43] I'm going to give you mine as well. [1:50:44] A lot of people on the socialist side believe that entryism is a failure and it's understandable to think that because the Democratic Party is a bourgeois liberal capitalist party. [1:50:51] Mm-hmm. [1:50:52] They will represent the interests of corporations. [1:50:54] That's what they're designed to do. [1:50:56] Um, and that's why their output is, you know, reflected that reality over and over again, where if you're wondering why they're not doing certain things, it's like, well, it's because they're not supposed to be doing it. [1:51:06] They're supposed to be defending corporations. [1:51:08] Right? [1:51:09] Um, there's certain, uh, uh, groups like the Democratic Socialists of America that have different opinions, differing opinions on this. [1:51:15] Some people believe that they can just like enter the Democratic Party and do entryism and run socialists until the party is a Democratic Socialists of America party. [1:51:22] Right? [1:51:23] Sort of what the Tea Party did with the Republican Party. [1:51:25] Yes, but the Tea Party didn't like entirely take it over until Donald Trump took over and then made it the MAGA party. [1:51:31] Right? [1:51:32] Yeah. [1:51:33] But again, directionally, Trump and the rest of the Republicans are actually aligned. [1:51:37] Right? [1:51:38] Trump might be more aggressive on, you know, overt white supremacy and maybe even a little bit, uh, more, uh, reluctant to, to destroy Social Security, for example, as opposed to the average Republican. [1:51:50] But like, directionally, they're on the side of deregulation and tax breaks. [1:51:53] Okay. [1:51:54] Right? [1:51:55] Whereas what we're talking about here, the DSA, is directionally on the diametrical opposite side of the political spectrum in comparison to the liberal capitalist Democratic Party. [1:52:04] And they recognize that. [1:52:05] Right? [1:52:06] So there's a real friction there that doesn't exist with the white supremacists, uh, and the rest of the Republican Party. [1:52:12] They actually lean heavily into that. [1:52:14] That's why Republicans can lean into their base. [1:52:16] Because directionally. [1:52:17] Whereas Democrats, yeah. [1:52:18] Okay. [1:52:19] Whereas Democrats run away from their base. [1:52:20] Right? [1:52:21] They have, like, disdain for their base. [1:52:22] Or they're like, oh, why do you want us to do these things? [1:52:24] Don't you understand? [1:52:25] Change is impossible. [1:52:26] So, entryism is difficult. [1:52:30] Um, my opinion on this is, uh, I, I'm a harm reduction voter. [1:52:34] I'm a harm reduction believer, I guess, to a certain degree. [1:52:37] I recognize that class consciousness is the number one problem in this country. [1:52:42] We do not have class consciousness and we do not have political education. [1:52:45] And without class consciousness and political education, you can't have organizing on the basis of class. [1:52:50] So, in order to foment class consciousness and to engage in agitative propaganda as, uh, you know, as is the Marxist tradition, I believe that, uh, elections are one of the most viable routes to reach the masses. [1:53:04] Mm-hmm. [1:53:05] Okay. [1:53:06] Because I think a lot of people, no matter how radical they present themselves as, or no matter how critical they are of Bernie Sanders, a lot of people self-identified as socialists in that insurgent campaign in 2016. [1:53:15] Yeah. [1:53:16] No matter what they think it's impossible, I think it's impossible, right? [1:53:17] Well, we should have push back. [1:53:18] Absolutely. [1:53:19] Yeah, it's impossible. [1:53:20] Yeah, it's impossible. [1:53:21] Because I think it's impossible to stay with a fake government or even if they wereвержd anything, um, and if you're admiring and when we're curious, I think it's easy to be a good idea to it. [1:53:35] a lot of people self-identify as socialists they made it it made a lot of people go wait a minute [1:53:39] i agree with that guy yeah yeah right i agree with that guy i didn't know that this designation [1:53:43] existed yeah or uh i i was so negatively propagandized against what i thought socialism [1:53:50] was but it turns out it's this you know old curmudgeon right and and who is fighting for me [1:53:55] who has been fighting for me for 800 years at this point so that's that's why i believe that [1:54:03] and i've seen this uh in the data as well like whenever you got a aoc style figure or zara [1:54:08] momdani um the dsa rises uh the dsa's ranks explode right there's so many new paid members uh or paying [1:54:18] members sorry that that joined the organization and the dsa is very good at uh instigating class [1:54:25] consciousness and also doing political education it's a massive institution with many different [1:54:31] caucuses and they're constantly fighting one another you go to the national conference and [1:54:35] you're like i like them all i have no uh you know i don't have it's like picking uh it's like picking [1:54:41] favorite children you can't do it right um but they're constantly warring there there's a democratic [1:54:47] process it's complex it's uh it's very diverse uh but you have every different tendency from liberals [1:54:55] social democrats uh all the way to marxist leninist maoist third worldists uh you know people who [1:55:02] do not participate in democracy at all uh because they think it's it's ridiculous and and counter [1:55:08] revolutionary you have all of that right and and that is political education and that is an absolute [1:55:14] necessity to make the changes in this country and i see electoralism as a route to foment class [1:55:22] consciousness through uh proving that alternative modes of governance are viable and that's why i [1:55:31] look to people like zoran as movement leaders in that regard because every day that he's a good mayor [1:55:36] of new york is a day where we are able to tackle this stigma associated with socialism uh every day [1:55:42] that he's a handsome charismatic fellow that gets to improve people's lives is a day where more new [1:55:47] yorkers go you know what maybe i'm a socialist after all um i'm not i i understand that uh you know [1:55:54] you have to organize with the masses that you have not the masses that you believe yeah uh should [1:55:58] exist and many people in the united states of america are self-identifying as liberals that's mass [1:56:04] politics that's that's what the social base that's where the social base is at they self-identify [1:56:10] as liberals because they don't really understand what that means if you were to pick apart their [1:56:13] worldview and offer them uh a little bit of political education you might find that they're [1:56:19] actually not liberals at all maybe they're socialists maybe they're marxists maybe they're [1:56:23] uh you know they have a different ideological tendency than liberalism which is basically just [1:56:28] the monoculture that we've taken for granted so at a time when liberalism is failing and the [1:56:33] democratic party as the liberal democratic party is is failing to keep up with the reactionary forces [1:56:39] on the republican side i i believe that it's important to try to push for as many radical [1:56:45] candidates as possible and change the makeup the political makeup of this unbelievably weak party [1:56:51] that is not a real political party in the sense that they exist in europe and in parliamentary systems [1:56:57] uh there's no paid membership structure like paying membership structure but a party that simply is a [1:57:04] holdover for a litany of different corporate interests and maybe some advocacy groups [1:57:08] on the side if you want to throw them a bone every now and then because you need door knockers [1:57:12] um that's a weak party that's a party that you can seize that's a party that you can take advantage of [1:57:19] because at the end of the day i have no loyalty to the brand that is the democratic party right [1:57:23] okay and i don't think anyone should have any loyalty to any party i think you should have [1:57:28] you should see politicians as an agent for change because that's what they are are they making those [1:57:35] changes for their corporate benefactors or are they making those changes for you are they promising to [1:57:42] you that they are going to change your lives for the better or are they telling you better things are [1:57:46] not possible which is what a lot of democrats do unfortunately um so you know even if i know a [1:57:54] politician personally zaron is a great example of this aoc is another example of this if they do things [1:57:59] that i don't like i'll say it i'll be like no this was wrong i i disagree with you on this [1:58:04] um and i will hold them to account because at the end of the day they're public servants they work [1:58:10] for us for all of us right uh there there shouldn't be any loyalty to uh a a party or a brand especially [1:58:21] if that party hasn't done enough to deserve your loyalty you can have an ideological commitment to a [1:58:26] movement i certainly do and i have my moral convictions and i demand that the elected representatives [1:58:33] that i push for also have similar shared moral convictions but outside of that i don't really [1:58:40] care how how we get there you know another dung shaoping quote i'll use i don't know why i keep [1:58:46] using dung shaoping quotes on this school on this conversation but it's because it's tuesday [1:58:50] yeah you know what they say about tuesday and dung shaoping what nothing carry on [1:58:54] i was very excited i know this guy caught us he said uh when when market reforms were taking place [1:59:02] in china he said famously uh a black cat or a white cat it doesn't matter as long as it catches the rat [1:59:08] and and that's the way i see it as well where it's like i don't really care about what these brands are [1:59:14] or what like uh how people focus too much on the labels and not on the outcome yeah i care about [1:59:19] yeah i care about changes i care about necessary changes and getting those necessary changes across [1:59:24] damn well this was great man this was really really dope good luck with uh your subpoena if it's there [1:59:31] when you get home oh speaking of which can you just open that that would be so amazing if we served him [1:59:36] right now yes that would be so amazing if if we served you the subpoena yeah it's like we have been [1:59:43] asked to deliver this to you uh this is from the treasury now that we now that we've confirmed do [1:59:49] you uh yo hassan man thanks thanks for taking the time yeah this was really great yeah man this was [1:59:53] great this was a fun conversation appreciate it thank you yeah thank you so much for watching the [1:59:58] episode if you enjoyed it pass it on to a friend if you didn't enjoy it pass it on to your friend [2:00:04] still let them suffer for a change and don't forget to engage with us in the comments uh if you want to [2:00:10] suggest a guest maybe there's questions you want maybe there's ideas that you have you can chat to [2:00:15] us we will read through the comments and we'll get into it either way i appreciate you taking the [2:00:19] time thank you for hanging out with us on what now and remember we do this for you so we would like to [2:00:24] hear from you until next time thank you