Glenn Beck Asks Kevin O'Leary Your Biggest Data Center Questions

[00:00:00] Speaker 1: Kevin O'Leary is with us. Now, I want to start this out with I am a, I have warned about AI since the 1990s. And I said, you know, AI is going to be wonderful. And then we're going to get a GI and that's going to be a little crazy. And then we'll get a SI. And that is terrifying, quite honestly, to me. A lot of times when I first started talking about it, people said, no, no, no, AGI is not even possible. And I think we're on the verge of AGI. So I have been warning about AI, but I also believe that AI is one of the greatest tools man has ever created. But we must always remember it is a tool. Now, to be able to have the compute power for these systems, we have to have data centers all over, which means we have to have power. And we also have to be willing to build the data centers, not going to pay for them. The companies that are all going to put us out of business, and we'll all be, we'll all be slaves to them eventually, they have to pay for it. Now, as these data centers are being built. There's a lot of people that say, I don't want that in my community for several reasons. I personally believe they have to be built where they're built is a different story. What I don't like is the fact that in some places, it feels almost as if these big tech companies are coming in, and they're just making a deal with the city council, and you're not involved. This is your life. If we don't build data centers, China will own us in every way possible. And I mean, personally, we'll own you personally. AI, the United States must be the victor in this, we must have the data centers. However, there's really good questions that have to be asked, because this is your life. And I do not want big tech making the decision anymore. We already saw what big tech did when they came out, you know, with the greatest tool ever, everybody's going to be able to talk to each other, we'll be able to check on our families. It's called social media. And we saw how that worked out. We have to have a reasonable conversation about AI and the data centers. And I thought the person to do that would be Kevin O'Leary, who is here. Hi, Kevin, how are you? Great to be here. Thank you. Thank you. Did I set this up properly in your book? Where do you disagree with me on these things? [00:02:28] Kevin O'Leary: I don't disagree with anything you said, Glenn. That's actually a very good platform that you set up for us to have a intelligent narrative about this debate, particularly on that of defense and the future of the individual. Because I am in the same boat you're in. I think we're in a very, very difficult situation with our adversaries in China. I've been dealing in China since they came into the World Trade Organization back in 2000. They haven't played by the rules in case anybody, before we were worried about AI. And so I have no problem with the Chinese people. I have a huge problem with the Chinese government and their policy. So just to set the stage on that one vertical topic, which I think is a good one to start with, you said it and you were right. Data centers aren't really about data centers. There are about power. You can't have any compute. You can't have your cell phone working, the cell tower working, the economy working, if you don't have power. So in the last 18 months, the Chinese using primarily coal burning turbines because they don't care about the environment or do they need a permit? The big guy says put one here and that's how it happens. They've built 400 gigawatts of new power for China, its economy and its efforts to dominate AI. How many have we built that's new in America? Zero. Now, I'm just talking about power. So we've got to get our poopoo together and start thinking about adding to the grid here so that we can compete as an economy, not just on AI. We need power. We're tapped out everywhere. And so one of the things you see is a negative in places like West Virginia, Virginia, Mississippi, Tennessee, Utah, you name it. People say, well, my power bill is going to go up if you put a data center here. Well, the new rule of engagement should be this as part of the national solution is if I'm going to bring a data center anywhere, I got to bring my own power. I got to spend billions to build power and then give some of it back to the grid so we can stay competitive. We need the data centers. We need the power. We need them both. And so there is a solution here. And that's how we're going to do it in Utah. Utah is not my only project. I've got projects in Norway and Finland and Canada, but Utah is particularly important for America because of what it needs, what it means for national defense. You nailed it. Okay. So, so, [00:05:07] Speaker 1: so Kevin, because this is, I've been talking about this one in Utah and I understand the people of Utah and I understand what they're worried about. And quite honestly, I am too. But I, you know, I said, there is a solution to these things and you just gave part of that solution. And that is, you have to build your own power. And, and I said, you know, negotiate with these companies and say, look, you want the data center. Great. You bring in your own power, but we also want X percentage of power put in here. And we don't want to be charged for any infrastructure that is, is revolves around anything to do with this data center. You're, you have to bring this asset to the community. You have to say this, we're going to help the community because you're not going to really be creating jobs long-term. Uh, so what are you going to create power? Hold on, hold on. Hold on, [00:06:00] Kevin O'Leary: Bubba Louie. Not so fast on the jobs. Not so much on the jobs. Let me give you the numbers. 4,000 construction jobs just for the first phase, 2,000 permanent jobs to maintain it. And those are engineering and support jobs, very high paying, not true about the jobs. That's a lot of jobs. That's a lot of jobs, including all of the additional stuff we have to do for the community, which no one's been talking about new fire trucks. We got to provide hotels to put these construction workers in for two years. We got to have permanent, you know, support for schooling. There's so much stuff we're going to give back to the community just to make sure our data center, we have, we have to employ, we have to find these people to employ them. Thank goodness, Utah is highly educated workforce. Northrop Grumman is just a few miles away, the Hill Air Force Base. I got jobs, my friend. I got a lot of jobs, a lot of jobs, and I need the people there to want to work. So I've got, I've got my work cut out for me. [00:06:56] Speaker 1: Okay. So the other thing, power, jobs, you just answered both of those. The second thing is, um, or the third thing is water. Is it true it needs water or not needs water? Because you're building it in Utah is the high desert. So what's the truth on water? [00:07:14] Kevin O'Leary: That is probably the topic for Utah, given the situation in the Great Salt Lake that is slowly going down. And people have a huge concern about that. So let me tell you the facts. The new modern era data center does not require anywhere near the water that was used 15 years ago in Virginia, where data centers got a bad name because of how much water they consumed. And there's two reasons for that. The power generation itself for the electricity to drive the chips. There's many solutions now that are air cooled. So they don't require anywhere near as much water. And the actual cooling of the chip itself is now done like a car radiator. It's a closed loop system, which was not available back 20 years ago. So those are two massive reductions. But people ask me, well, put it in context. Is it true that this is going to use all the water in Utah and the whole lake is going to be drained? That's a complete falsehood. This data center's first phase about 1.4 gigs is going to be no different than a golf course in Utah. So that you should look at it in terms of how many golf courses in Utah are using water because data centers, not just my project, any new data center now is like a golf course. So, you know, my attitude is, look, let's get realistic about the facts. And the way you learn that, I don't want people to trust me. I want them to look at the water permit application I'm going to put in in late August that is forced to show exactly the engineering requirements exactly to the gallon that we have to get to make this work. The permitting process is not being circumvented anywhere, including Box Elder County. You can't, you got to get EPA, you got to get states, you got to get water, you got to get noise, you got to get light. All of that has to be permitted. So there's total control there to see this on a public basis. And what I've done, given all the brouhaha that occurred in Box Elder since May 5th, is I called up all of the TV networks there and they all have representation and all the journalists and said, here's my personal cell number. You text me when you have a question. Don't let anybody put words in my mouth for me. You call me and I'll talk to you and give you the facts. And I promised all of them, they will get the same information the second I apply for the permit on water which comes first. That's the biggest topic in Utah's water. We got to get this right. And so that's why I'm encouraged that at least you and I are having this narrative and I'm trying to put it straight, but I have a lot of work ahead of me. [00:09:58] Speaker 1: So, Kevin, how do you generate, what kind of power generation are you using? Because, I mean, doesn't it always come back down to you got to make steam, that steam pushes then a turbine and then you can generate, I mean, no matter what it is, it usually uses steam, doesn't it? What are you going to use to make power? [00:10:19] Kevin O'Leary: Well, think about this. Think about you're one of the tenants which I have to negotiate with, the hyperscalers, the SpaceX, the Microsoft, the Google, whoever it is. Let's just take Box Elder County because we're talking about Utah. Every single person, I'm going to guess, in Box Elder County, all, you know, everyone has a cell phone. So they talk to their kids, that's how they run their businesses. They're already using a data center. They're already customers of all the aforementioned hyperscalers. If you're an Amazon or you're a Microsoft or you're Google, the last thing you want to do in Box Elder County is piss off your customer. They're not stupid. So what they're telling us, the people that are risking the $16 billion, half in debt, half in equity, that's what's going to cost me to build the first phase, is you show us your proposals for power and we'll tell you what we want. And most of them now are looking for combination of nat gas, natural gas, air-cooled turbines, solar and sodium-lithium battery combinations so that you can build out, if you have enough land, solar panels that drive grabbing energy during the day. And Utah's pretty good, it's a semi-desert. You're filling up those sodium-lithium batteries and then you're fueling the nighttime activity in the data center. So a combination of all of the above, the Ruby pipeline there is at about 17% capacity. So we can use some of that. We have to spend billions to get all that set up. But then the turbines themselves can be air-cooled or combination of water air-cooled. Put that part of the water permit. And then of course we need toilets and kitchens and all that stuff. People need water, so we're going to use water there. But at the end of the day, I'm pretty sure I'm going to be known different than in phase one. It's going to [00:12:18] Speaker 1: be a golf course, no different. Kevin, why not nuclear energy? The president said he would take off, you know, he would take off, you know, the restrictions on nuclear energy. Is it not ready [00:12:27] Kevin O'Leary: for prime time yet? The new smaller nukes? It's about 11 to 15 years away, the small nukes. The economics of data centers worldwide are the cost of power per kilowatt hour. So let me just give you some metrics. The cheapest power on earth is one cent a kilowatt hour in Saudi Arabia. But obviously, given the instability of the region right now, no one's going to put a $15 billion investment there. Kevin Kennedy: Then you get the Nordic countries, Finland, Norway, where we do have facilities at four and 3.9 cents a kilowatt hour. The cheapest in North America is in Canada, in the province of Alberta, where we're sort of at a 4.2, give or take a little bit, cents a kilowatt hour USD. And then most of the data centers in Texas and Utah, maybe four to six cents. Now, if you looked at nuke right now, you'd be talking maybe a buck a kilowatt hour. Kevin Kennedy: Oh, wow. Kevin Kennedy: So, you know, we're just not ready. But I applaud the administration's move towards this. We gave up our nuclear program years ago for the wrong reasons. And so did Germany. And look at the situation therein. The French did the same thing. We got to get back in the saddle on nuke. And we will. But the data center itself is agnostic to the power, as long as it's economic. It can switch over to small nukes the minute they're available. And so we would do that as well. This is a long project, land for me. I'm going to be working on this thing for over a decade. [00:14:03] Speaker 1: Kevin Kennedy: So tell me why, because I have people say, why are these being built in small little towns and little teeny communities and farming? And I moved to farming communities because I didn't want to be around all this crap. Why are we going into places like Detroit and just taking all of these old empty factories and just retooling them? [00:14:21] Kevin O'Leary: Kevin Kennedy: Because they're not big enough. What happened was in the last two years when the race against China started, a large data center used to be 250 megawatts. Today, the minimum to stay competitive is 1.4 gigawatts. So almost five times the size. And the reason that is, is the chips themselves cost billions of dollars. So you need scale to make it economic.