FULL TESTIMONY: Au pair explains alleged plot in Brendan Banfield trial

[00:00:00] Speaker 1: All right, are we ready for the jury? Ready for the jury, Mr. Carroll? [00:00:27] Speaker ?: All right. All right. All right. All right. All right. All right. All right. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. Commonwealth, your next witness. [00:01:31] Speaker 1: It's Juliana Perez-Maliyahis. [00:01:40] Speaker ?: All right. [00:01:40] Speaker 1: All right, ma'am, if you could stand and face the clerk and raise your right hand. It's a penalty of law. [00:01:57] Speaker ?: You can have a seat. Good afternoon. Good afternoon. Could you please state and spell your name for the court record? [00:01:57] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:02:06] Speaker 3: Yes, Juliana J-U-L-I-A-N-A Perez-B-E-R-E-S. Magalhães, M-A-G-A-L-H-A-E-S. [00:02:20] Speaker 2: And how old are you now, Juliana? 25. And do you know the defendant? Yes. [00:02:25] Speaker 3: What's his name? [00:02:27] Speaker 2: When did you meet him? [00:02:31] Speaker 3: Back in October, 2021. [00:02:33] Speaker ?: Oh, 22. [00:02:33] Speaker 3: When did you meet him? Hmm? [00:02:35] Speaker ?: When did you meet him? [00:02:36] Speaker 2: Can you specify? Sorry. When did you first meet him? [00:02:40] Speaker 3: Oh, in person when I first came to the States, and before that, through a video call with the family. [00:02:59] Speaker 2: Okay. Do you recall what month or year that was? [00:03:03] Speaker 3: When I came to the States? Yes. It was October. [00:03:06] Speaker 2: Okay. Do you know what year? [00:03:08] Speaker 3: 2021. Okay. [00:03:10] Speaker 2: And when you first met Mr. Banfield, what was your relationship to him? [00:03:16] Speaker 3: Professional. He was my boss. [00:03:19] Speaker 2: And you said he was your boss. Yeah. [00:03:22] Speaker 3: What was your job? I was their au pair. [00:03:24] Speaker 2: And so you said you worked as an au pair. What does that mean? [00:03:28] Speaker 3: Au pair is like a nanny position, but somebody comes from another country providing care for the kids, and in exchange they lived with their family. Yeah. [00:03:41] Speaker 2: Okay. Do you get paid to be an au pair? [00:03:43] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:03:44] Speaker 2: How much? [00:03:45] Speaker 3: $200 a week. [00:03:46] Speaker 2: And how long of a stay did you have as an au pair? [00:03:52] Speaker 3: We can have from a year to two years, but as an au pair I stayed for a year. [00:03:59] Speaker 2: Okay. And did you, so you said you arrived in October of 2021 and you said you stayed for a year? [00:04:10] Speaker 3: Yeah. [00:04:11] Speaker 2: And then did you extend that stay? [00:04:13] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:04:14] Speaker 2: And how long did you extend this day for? [00:04:18] Speaker 3: I think I might have extended for another year. [00:04:22] Speaker 2: Let's talk about when you lived with the Banfield family and worked for them as their au pair. Where did you live? [00:04:30] Speaker 3: I lived in their house, in their home. Okay. [00:04:33] Speaker 2: And who lived there with you? [00:04:35] Speaker 3: It was Brendan, his wife Christine, and their daughter. [00:04:42] Speaker 2: And we know who Brendan is. Yeah. [00:04:46] Speaker 3: Who is Christine? Christine was Brendan's wife. [00:04:48] Speaker 2: And you said their daughter? Yeah. [00:04:50] Speaker 3: Yeah. [00:04:51] Speaker 2: What was their daughter's name? [00:04:52] Speaker 3: Valerie. [00:04:53] Speaker 2: What was your life like with them? [00:04:55] Speaker 3: With the family? Yeah. [00:04:57] Speaker 2: When you first got there, what was it like? [00:04:59] Speaker 3: It was kind of a period for me to adapt to the family, to my job, to the country. But it was very, I was very welcome, I guess. [00:05:14] Speaker 2: And what was Brendan like when you first came to live with the family and be their au pair? [00:05:19] Speaker 3: We barely spoke, like my relationship was mostly with Christine and Valerie. Brendan and I barely spoke at all. I'm just... [00:05:31] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:05:32] Speaker 3: What was Christine like? Christine was very friendly, very welcoming, very fair. Yeah. [00:05:43] Speaker 2: Did you spend time with her and spend time with Valerie together? Yes. And did you spend time on your own with Christine? [00:05:57] Speaker 3: Maybe a couple of times going to a store or...yeah. [00:06:01] Speaker 2: Do you recall if Christine had a blood disorder? [00:06:05] Speaker 3: I heard about it, yes. [00:06:07] Speaker 2: And do you know the name of it? [00:06:09] Speaker 3: I do not know. [00:06:10] Speaker 2: Do you know if she took any medication for it? [00:06:13] Speaker 3: As far as I know, no. [00:06:18] Speaker 2: What was Valerie like? [00:06:19] Speaker 3: Valerie is very loving, very caring. It's just... [00:06:29] Speaker 2: How old was Valerie when you met her in 2021? [00:06:33] Speaker 3: She was three and a half. I'm sorry, say that again? Three and a half. [00:06:39] Speaker 2: And were there any other children that were living in the Banfields' home while you lived there too? [00:06:45] Speaker 3: No. [00:06:46] Speaker 2: Do you know if they had an au pair before you were their au pair? [00:06:51] Speaker 3: Yeah. [00:06:52] Speaker 2: Who was that? [00:06:53] Speaker 3: It was Amanda. [00:06:54] Speaker 2: And when you began working for the Banfields...do you need a minute? When you began working for the Banfields? Do you remember what their jobs were? [00:07:10] Speaker ?: Yeah. [00:07:11] Speaker 2: Or do you know what their jobs were? Yeah. [00:07:13] Speaker 3: Christina was a RN and Brenna was working, I guess, as an investigator for the IRS. [00:07:26] Speaker 2: At some point while you were working for the Banfield family, did your relationship with the defendant change? [00:07:33] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:07:34] Speaker 2: How did it change? [00:07:36] Speaker 3: It became sexual, physical relationship. [00:07:41] Speaker 2: And do you recall when the relationship changed? [00:07:44] Speaker 3: It was August 2022. [00:07:47] Speaker 2: And did you keep the relationship, this new relationship with the defendant, did you keep this a secret? [00:07:59] Speaker 3: For my part, some of my friends, they knew because I told them and I used to post on my Instagram. But for his part, yeah, it was a secret. [00:08:13] Speaker 2: Okay. And you said you told some friends about it? Yeah. Do you remember which friends you told? [00:08:18] Speaker 3: I told Beatrice about it and Pamela. [00:08:24] Speaker 2: And did you take any photos of you and the defendant after you began a romantic or physical relationship? Yes. And you said you had posted something to social media? Yes. Okay. I am going to show you a couple of photos. And if I could have this view be to the witness and counsel only, please. Thank you. [00:08:54] Speaker ?: Thank you. [00:08:55] Speaker 2: I am going to show you Commonwealth 51, 52, 53, and 54. This is 51, 52, 53, and 54. Do you recognize these photos? Yes, I do. [00:09:16] Speaker 3: And how do you recognize them? [00:09:17] Speaker 2: It's me and Brendan. And are these social media posts that you made? [00:09:26] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:09:27] Speaker 2: Judge, at this time, what I would ask the court to do is admit these as Commonwealth 51, 52, 53, and 54. All right. Any objection? Okay. [00:09:38] Speaker 1: 51, 52, 53, and 54 in evidence. [00:09:43] Speaker 2: And we can publish the first one for the jury. Can you tell us who's under the emoji here? [00:09:55] Speaker 3: It's Brendan. [00:09:57] Speaker 2: And then a couple of these have noise. And then this one, Commonwealth 53, can you describe who this is? [00:10:27] Speaker 3: It's Brendan's hand. [00:10:29] Speaker 2: And whose leg is that? [00:10:30] Speaker 3: My leg. [00:10:31] Speaker 2: And the date on the photo that is posted, is that the date that the photo was taken? [00:10:38] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:10:41] Speaker 2: And this photo here, Commonwealth 54, who's under the emoji? [00:10:48] Speaker 3: It's Brendan. [00:10:49] Speaker 2: Do you know when this photo was taken? [00:10:51] Speaker 3: It's from the same day as the previous picture. There's a previous one. [00:10:55] Speaker ?: Mm-hmm. [00:10:55] Speaker 2: All right. I want to go back to 52. And in that post, who is present in that post? [00:11:10] Speaker ?: He's the person behind the emoji. He's the person behind the emoji. He's the person behind the emoji. [00:11:13] Speaker 4: He's the person behind the emoji. [00:11:14] Speaker 3: He's the person behind the emoji. He's the person behind the emoji. He's the person behind the emoji. [00:11:17] Speaker ?: He's the person behind the emoji. He's the person behind the emoji. He's the person behind the emoji. [00:11:20] Speaker 4: He's the person behind the emoji. And he's the person behind the emoji. He's the person behind the emoji. He's the person behind the emoji. He's the person behind the emoji. He's the person behind the emoji. He's the person behind the emoji. He's the person behind the emoji. [00:11:30] Speaker 2: He's the person behind the emoji. He's the person behind the emoji. He's the person behind the emoji. He's the person behind the emoji. He's the person behind the emoji. He's the person behind the emoji. [00:11:36] Speaker ?: He's the person behind the emoji. [00:11:37] Speaker 3: He's the person behind the emoji. He's the person behind the emoji. He's the person behind the emoji. [00:11:40] Speaker 2: He's the person behind the emoji. He's the person behind the emoji. [00:11:42] Speaker 3: He's the person behind the emoji. [00:11:43] Speaker 2: And is it you and Brendan singing in that post? He's the person behind the emoji. Yes. So you began a sexual relationship with the defendant in August of 2022. When you were how old? [00:11:55] Speaker 3: I was 21. [00:11:58] Speaker 2: And when this relationship began, did you ever think about how it might end? [00:12:05] Speaker ?: No. [00:12:06] Speaker 3: I didn't really think it was serious, a relationship. [00:12:12] Speaker 2: And did the defendant ever talk with you about any long-term plans for the two of you? [00:12:22] Speaker 3: Not initially. [00:12:24] Speaker 2: Not initially. Did he ever though? [00:12:26] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:12:27] Speaker 2: When did that talk start? [00:12:29] Speaker 3: I think it started after he talked about his plan. [00:12:39] Speaker 2: Okay. And did he ever talk about the two of you getting married or the two of you having children? [00:12:47] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:12:48] Speaker 2: And do you recall when that talk began? [00:12:52] Speaker 3: Also, after he mentioned his plan. [00:12:58] Speaker 2: Did he ever talk about his relationship with his wife, Christine Banfield? [00:13:03] Speaker 3: And sometimes he would come up in our conversation and he would talk about it. [00:13:08] Speaker 2: And what did he say? [00:13:10] Speaker 3: He used to say that she didn't seem to care about where he was, what he was doing. She didn't seem to care about him at all. And that she was helpless and just lazy. [00:13:32] Speaker 2: Do you recall when he said those things? [00:13:35] Speaker 3: When? Yes. Well, many times during our conversation when she came up. [00:13:41] Speaker 2: And did he ever talk to you about anything else about his relationship? Did he ever talk about getting a divorce with her? [00:13:58] Speaker 3: No. He basically said divorce was not an option. [00:14:03] Speaker 2: Did he say why? [00:14:05] Speaker 3: Money was involved. I'm sorry. [00:14:08] Speaker 2: Say that again. [00:14:09] Speaker 3: Money. [00:14:10] Speaker 2: Okay. Anything else? [00:14:12] Speaker 3: Money was involved and Valerie's custody too. [00:14:15] Speaker 2: And what about those things? Did he say anything specifically about money or Valerie's custody? [00:14:21] Speaker 3: Yeah, he said that he didn't want to have to share Valerie with Christine. That she wasn't good for Valerie. So he wanted to have Valerie full time. And money, plus she would have more money than he would if Deborah split. [00:14:45] Speaker 2: And so he didn't want to get divorced. Did he tell you what he wanted to do? Yes. What did he say? [00:14:53] Speaker 3: He mentioned his plan to get rid of her. [00:14:57] Speaker 2: And you said he mentioned his plan to get rid of her. Mm-hmm. [00:15:03] Speaker 3: Yeah. [00:15:04] Speaker 2: When did he talk about that first? [00:15:06] Speaker 3: I would say it was in October 2022. [00:15:11] Speaker 2: And what specifically was his plan to get rid of her? [00:15:18] Speaker 3: Initially, he didn't really know what he would do. He just mentioned that he was thinking about it. And he would think better and let me know when he thought about it. Yeah. [00:15:35] Speaker 2: Where were the two of you when this first conversation took place? New York. And were you on a trip to New York with only him? [00:15:50] Speaker 3: It was him and Valerie. What did you think when he told you that? At first, I thought he was joking. Yeah. Yeah. For me, it was a joke. [00:16:11] Speaker 2: And you said that you were in New York when that conversation happened. Yeah. Did the three of you return to Virginia after that trip? [00:16:20] Speaker 3: Yes, we did. [00:16:21] Speaker 2: And did he talk about this plan again after you returned? [00:16:25] Speaker 3: Yeah. [00:16:26] Speaker 2: And did he give you more information or more detail about what he intended to have happen? Yeah. [00:16:34] Speaker 3: He said he wasn't going to hire anybody because that is something that throughout the investigation can be discovered easily. And that he had heard of a website called Fat Life. He's never done anything on the website, but he heard about it. And that's what he was going to do. [00:17:03] Speaker 2: And did he tell you anything more about the plan at this point? [00:17:09] Speaker 3: At that point, not really. He was still thinking about it. [00:17:16] Speaker 2: And at the end of October of 2022, did you visit a shooting range? [00:17:25] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:17:26] Speaker 2: And did anyone come with you? [00:17:30] Speaker 3: Brendan. [00:17:31] Speaker 2: The first time that you went to the shooting range, do you recall signing any paperwork? Yes. [00:17:40] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:17:41] Speaker 2: Judge, at this point, I'm going to display a photograph. I would ask for the display to be to the witness and counsel only. Yes, ma'am. I want you to look at the screen in front of you. Do you have -- can you -- is there a document on your screen? [00:17:59] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:18:00] Speaker 2: Okay. And I'm going to scroll through this document for you slowly. [00:18:07] Speaker 1: Just for the record, could you -- the exhibit number of the document? Oh, it is exhibit number 56. [00:18:10] Speaker 2: Thank you. Do you recognize this exhibit? [00:18:12] Speaker ?: Yes. And how do you recognize it? [00:18:14] Speaker 2: It's the waiver you have to sign when you first go to the shooting range. [00:18:26] Speaker ?: And did you sign this? [00:18:27] Speaker 2: Yeah. Is that your signature there on page six? [00:18:29] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:18:30] Speaker 2: Judge, at this point, I'm going to ask to admit this as Commonwealth 56 and allow for it to be published to the jury. Any objection? No. All right. 56 and evidence and published. And I'm going to just bring it back up to the top so the jury can see it. Do you recall the date on the form? [00:18:55] Speaker 3: Yeah, October 29, 2022. [00:19:00] Speaker 2: And on that date, do you recall shooting a firearm? Yes. Do you remember if it was a handgun or a long gun? [00:19:08] Speaker 3: It was a handgun. [00:19:09] Speaker 2: And was the defendant with you while you were firing the handgun on that day? Yes. Did you ever go back to the firing range again? [00:19:17] Speaker 3: Eventually, we did. [00:19:18] Speaker 2: Do you remember when you went back to the firing range? [00:19:22] Speaker 3: I'd say back in December. [00:19:25] Speaker 2: And did you practice firing a firearm on that December visit? Yes. And again, what kind of firearm? Do you recall if it was a handgun or a long gun? It was a handgun. And was anyone with you when you returned to the firing range in December? Thanks, Brendan. Judge, at this point I'm going to ask for the view of Commonwealth 56 to be terminated to the gallery. And I am going to move to Commonwealth 57 for the view of the witness and counsel only at this point. Do you see a photograph on your screen? [00:20:13] Speaker 3: I do. [00:20:14] Speaker 2: And do you recognize this photograph? [00:20:17] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:20:18] Speaker 2: How do you recognize it? [00:20:19] Speaker 3: It's me at the shooting range. [00:20:22] Speaker 2: And do you know who took this picture? [00:20:24] Speaker 3: Brendan. [00:20:25] Speaker 2: Judge, at this point I am going to ask to have this admitted as Commonwealth 57. All right. Any objection to 57? All right. [00:20:34] Speaker 1: 57 evidence and published. [00:20:36] Speaker 2: Did the defendant tell you why he wanted to return to the firing range for that second visit? [00:20:44] Speaker ?: Yes. [00:20:45] Speaker 3: And why was that? That's in case I need to use it if something goes wrong. [00:20:55] Speaker 2: And what would go wrong? What was he concerned about going wrong? Had he told you more of his plan at this point? [00:21:03] Speaker 3: At that point specifically, I can't really recall. [00:21:13] Speaker 2: But he told you that he wanted you at the firing range because you needed in case something went wrong. Yes. Is that right? [00:21:22] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:21:23] Speaker 2: After the December visit to the shooting range, what if any additional steps did the defendant take to move his plan forward? [00:21:31] Speaker 3: It was in January when he created the account on the website. [00:21:37] Speaker 2: Okay. So were you present when he created the FetLife account? [00:21:44] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:21:45] Speaker 2: And did he use his own email address to create the account? [00:21:50] Speaker 3: No, he did not. [00:21:51] Speaker 2: What email address did he use? [00:21:54] Speaker 3: He created a new email account for Christine and Christine's name. [00:21:59] Speaker 2: And were you there when he created that email address? [00:22:02] Speaker ?: Yeah. [00:22:03] Speaker 3: Yeah. [00:22:04] Speaker 2: And do you recall what device he used to create the email address? [00:22:09] Speaker 3: To her laptop. [00:22:11] Speaker 2: And when you say her laptop, whose laptop are you talking about? [00:22:14] Speaker 3: Christine's laptop. [00:22:15] Speaker 2: And do you recall what device he used to create the FetLife account? Oh, it's the laptop. And when you say the laptop, are you talking about Christine's laptop? Yes. Okay. And do you recall the name of the profile that the defendant created for the FetLife account? Anastasia Knight. And was there a photograph added to that profile? [00:22:38] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:22:39] Speaker 2: Who is the photograph of? [00:22:42] Speaker 3: It's Christine's body in a baggy suit. [00:22:48] Speaker 2: And who added the photograph to the profile? Brandon did. And who typed the words for the profile? [00:22:57] Speaker 3: I hear that. [00:22:58] Speaker 2: I'm sorry, say that again? Brandon did. Okay. If I could have the view terminated to the gallery at this point. And I am going to ask for exhibits 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, and 65, all photographs, all photographs, to be displayed to the witness and counsel only at this point. I'm going to show you a series of screenshots. And then I'm going to ask you about them. Okay. So this is 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, and 65. To be admitted under seal and published to the jury only. All right. No objection. All right. 59, 60, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, and 65, to be admitted under seal and published to the jury only. All right. [00:24:34] Speaker ?: No objection. [00:24:35] Speaker 1: All right. All right. 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, admitted under seal. Okay. I'm going to run back through them. Okay. [00:24:44] Speaker 2: So Commonwealth's 58. Is this the FetLife profile that was posted? Yes. Yes. And the About section here that we can see. Who wrote the words in that? Who composed that? Brandon. [00:25:13] Speaker 3: Brandon. [00:25:14] Speaker 2: And then in 59, Commonwealth's 59. Is this also a part of the FetLife profile? Yes. [00:25:31] Speaker ?: And then Commonwealth's 60. [00:25:31] Speaker 2: Is this the photograph that was used as the profile photo for the FetLife? Yes. [00:25:41] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:25:42] Speaker 2: Profile. Profile. And then Commonwealth's 61 here. Is this the group, for lack of a better word, that this profile was posted in? [00:25:56] Speaker ?: Oh, sorry. [00:25:57] Speaker 3: Can you repeat it again, please? Sure. [00:26:00] Speaker 2: This photograph here, Commonwealth's 61. Is this the group within FetLife that you use to communicate with other users? [00:26:12] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:26:13] Speaker ?: And then Commonwealth's 62. [00:26:13] Speaker 2: Is this the post that you used, you and Brendan used on FetLife? [00:26:28] Speaker 1: Is there an objection? What's your objection, Mr. Leading? Okay. [00:26:36] Speaker 2: Okay. Understood. All right. I'll sustain the objection. Let's look at Commonwealth's 62. Can you describe for us what it is? [00:26:48] Speaker 3: It's a post made on the profile. [00:26:55] Speaker 2: And what website was this posted on? FetLife. And what was the reason for posting it? [00:27:02] Speaker 3: It was what account was first created, I guess, and to tell people what she was looking for. [00:27:14] Speaker 2: And whose idea was it to post this? Hmm? Whose idea was it to post this? [00:27:20] Speaker ?: Brendan. Okay. [00:27:22] Speaker 2: We can terminate this view at this point. How did you and Brendan, how did you use the laptop? How did the two of you use her laptop without her knowing about it? [00:27:47] Speaker 3: It was because every time she has to get home from work, she used to throw her backpack by the door. And in the backpack was her laptop and her work stuff. [00:28:12] Speaker 2: And once the FetLife account was created, what, if anything, did the two of you do with it? [00:28:24] Speaker 3: So, texting other people, other guys, they would also text looking for whatever it is that they're interested in. [00:28:42] Speaker 2: Okay. And did Brendan explain to you at this point in time, or was there any explanation given to you about what it was that he was using FetLife for, or what it was he was looking for from another FetLife user? Yeah. [00:28:58] Speaker 3: What was that? The website is for BDSM, people that like that kind of stuff. And he said it would be, we would be able to find somebody that plays like aggressive or that like playing with blood and that kind of stuff. And why? [00:29:27] Speaker 2: And why? What was the, what, if any reason, did he, did he want to find someone like that for? [00:29:36] Speaker 3: Well, because the person would be, eventually, the person would be invited to come to the house. And he needed to know that the person was willing or he was, was going to do what he had in his mind. [00:29:57] Speaker 2: And what was he, what was he using FetLife to ask other users to do to the Anastasia profile? [00:30:07] Speaker 3: Things like pinning her down, gagging her, spanking. Yeah. [00:30:22] Speaker 2: And when the two of you used FetLife to message other people, were you, who, who would do the typing? Were you typing? Were you typing? Was Brendan typing? [00:30:47] Speaker 3: To talk to other people? Yes. You asked? Sometimes it would be him, sometimes it would be me by his instruction when he was with me. [00:30:57] Speaker 2: And were the two of you typically together while you were using FetLife to message other people? [00:31:04] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:31:05] Speaker 2: And was Christine home or not home when the two of you used FetLife? [00:31:11] Speaker 3: She was home. [00:31:12] Speaker 2: Always? [00:31:13] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:31:14] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:31:15] Speaker 3: Why? Because he always mentioned for us to make sure to log in on the account when she was also home. So, it would have, you know, throughout the investigation, it would have been very clear that, like, whenever she, she was using the profile, she was home. And, yeah. Yeah. [00:31:45] Speaker 2: And you said because there, because during the investigation, why would there be an investigation? [00:31:52] Speaker 3: Well, he always thought, like, in advance, he knew how the investigation had to go. Like, he, he always knew. [00:32:04] Speaker ?: And, yeah. Yeah. But why did he know? [00:32:04] Speaker 3: What did he know? [00:32:05] Speaker ?: Yeah. Why? [00:32:06] Speaker 3: You said because, because he always knew about the investigation. What did he know about an investigation? There hasn't been one yet. He knew eventually he would have one investigation. He knew eventually he would have one investigation. [00:32:12] Speaker ?: Why? Because there would have been a investigation. Why? Because there would have been a investigation. He knew eventually he would have one investigation. Why? [00:32:16] Speaker 2: - But why did he know? - What did he know? - Why? You said because he always knew about the investigation. What did he know about an investigation? There hasn't been one yet. [00:32:33] Speaker 3: - He knew eventually he would have one investigation. - Why? - Because there would be murder and it's just what happens. [00:32:50] Speaker 2: - Did he tell you that? - Yeah. - What specifically did he tell you about that? [00:33:01] Speaker 3: - Well, he knew that he needed to, we needed to have some alibis. He knew that he needed to change his routine a few weeks prior. So it wouldn't be odd that he wasn't, you know, just at McDonald's on that day specifically. [00:33:27] Speaker 2: - Okay. I am going to show you a couple of items one at a time. The parties have stipulated to the admissibility of the next two items. - Okay. - The next several items. The first two are going to be Commonwealth 66 and 67. And Judge Commonwealth 66, I'm going to ask to have published to the jury and counsel only. And I'm going to ask that these be under seal. [00:34:05] Speaker 1: - 66 and 67? - Yes. - There's an agreement to admissibility. Is that correct, Mr. Kerr? - No. - Okay. So 66 and 67 are in evidence under seal. [00:34:15] Speaker 2: Thank you. [00:34:45] Speaker 4: Thank you. [00:35:15] Speaker ?: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. [00:36:13] Speaker 2: I'm having a couple of technical difficulties, so I'm going to move on for a minute and then we'll go back to 66 and 67. Did you and the defendant ever travel out of town together? [00:36:32] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:36:33] Speaker 2: Yes. Where did you go? [00:36:35] Speaker 3: To Winchester, Virginia. [00:36:37] Speaker 2: Do you recall when that was? [00:36:39] Speaker 3: When? When? Not exactly, no. [00:36:42] Speaker 2: Do you know if it was before or after that the defendant created the FetLife profile? [00:36:50] Speaker 3: Can I say if not 100% sure though? [00:37:03] Speaker 2: You don't recall? [00:37:05] Speaker 3: No. [00:37:06] Speaker 2: How did you arrange to go to Winchester together? [00:37:09] Speaker 3: He was going for an overnight stay in a hotel for his job. Okay. [00:37:16] Speaker 2: Go ahead. [00:37:17] Speaker 3: And he took his car, his work car, and they took the white car to drive. [00:37:29] Speaker 2: And when the two of you were in Winchester, was there ever any posting on FetLife at that time? No. And why would that have been? [00:37:40] Speaker 3: Because, like I said before, that he always made sure to... [00:37:47] Speaker 1: What's your objection, Mr. Carroll? The microphone, I can't... It's very hard to hear you. What's your legal objection? [00:37:58] Speaker 4: Legal objection. She's asked and answered that she didn't do any posting. So... [00:38:04] Speaker 1: Asked and answered. [00:38:05] Speaker 4: Any further questions? I'm sorry. [00:38:07] Speaker 2: I missed that. He said asked and answered. I don't think I asked her if any of them posted on FetLife while they were out of town in Winchester. Okay. I'll overrule the objection. Go ahead. [00:38:20] Speaker ?: Sorry. [00:38:21] Speaker 2: Did either of you post on FetLife or message anyone on FetLife while the two of you were in Winchester? No. And why is that? [00:38:30] Speaker 3: Because we would only post when we were home and she was home at the same time. [00:38:38] Speaker 2: Okay. And were there any other things that the two of you did to make it look like Christine was the one messaging in FetLife? [00:38:49] Speaker ?: Do you want me to ask that a different way? Yes, please. [00:38:51] Speaker 2: Did the two of you ever message people or post on FetLife when Christine was home and only one of you was home? Yes. And whose idea was that? [00:39:09] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:39:10] Speaker 2: And whose idea was that? Brendan's. [00:39:12] Speaker 3: And did he say why? [00:39:13] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:39:14] Speaker ?: And why was that? [00:39:15] Speaker 3: Because, again, when he talked about the investigation we would have at some point, he pointed out that the police would have access to work. Our phones are where our phones are, where our phones pin and so we wouldn't be able to tell, accuse him of doing that because sometimes she would be doing it, posting and messaging and she would be home and he wouldn't be home. And other times, I wouldn't be home and so there would be no way to actually prove it and that's the alibis Pete talked about. [00:40:13] Speaker 2: Can you recall any specific instances of how it would have worked for one of you to be home hosting while Christine was home and the other one was out of the home? [00:40:27] Speaker 3: That normally happened when both of us went to the gym and he would tell me to leave earlier and go home. So I would get home before him and for me to log in the account and, you know, text people, talk to people. And other times he would tell me to hang in the gym and he would leave earlier so he would be the one logging in and talking to people. [00:41:01] Speaker 2: Okay. And the gym that you're talking about, do you recall which gym that was? [00:41:06] Speaker 3: Yeah, Lifetime. [00:41:07] Speaker 2: And did the two of you, and do you know which location? [00:41:10] Speaker 3: Yeah, Ruston. [00:41:12] Speaker 2: Did the two of you go to Lifetime Fitness together frequently? Yes. Did Christine go with the two of you? [00:41:20] Speaker 3: It was just maybe a couple times, but nothing. It was normally Ronna and I. [00:41:31] Speaker 2: Okay. I'm going to go back to Commonwealth 66 and 67 at this point. If we could see 66. You can publish from the table, please. Okay. Just give us a second. [00:41:47] Speaker ?: Jury. It's already in evidence. In the gallon. Oh, it's sealed. [00:41:51] Speaker 1: Okay. [00:41:52] Speaker ?: All right. So looking at Commonwealth 66. Can you see it on your screen? [00:41:55] Speaker 1: Yes. Okay. [00:41:57] Speaker 2: And then at the top of your screen, there's a column that's titled, "User" and "User" [00:42:02] Speaker ?: ID. [00:42:03] Speaker 2: Do you see that? Yes. Okay. The user ID identified as Anastasia 9. Okay. [00:42:09] Speaker 3: Who wrote the messages from Anastasia 9? [00:42:10] Speaker ?: Not that specific message, but just in general. Who is the person or person who are writing the messages from Anastasia 9? [00:42:10] Speaker 2: Okay. And then at the top of your screen, there's a column that's titled, "User ID." Do you see that? [00:42:16] Speaker ?: Yes. [00:42:17] Speaker 2: Okay. The user ID identified as Anastasia 9. Who wrote the messages from Anastasia 9? Okay. Who wrote the messages from Anastasia 9? Not that specific message, but just in general. Who is the person or person who are writing the messages from Anastasia 9? [00:42:40] Speaker 3: It's either me or Brendan. [00:42:42] Speaker 2: And the other user IDs that we see that are largely numbers in this view. Are those messages that are received by you and the defendant using the Anastasia 9 profile? Yes. Okay. So I'm going to ask for us to scroll forward a little bit to location number 367 or cell 367. The user ID, Tacos Supreme 7000. Did you come to know who that was? That's Jill. And now if we could switch to Commonwealth 67. [00:43:42] Speaker ?: The Tacos Supreme 7000 profile that you came to know as Joe Ryan. [00:43:57] Speaker 2: We see that profile and we see Anastasia 9 communicating in this view of the spreadsheet. Do you recognize these as FetLife chats that you and Brendan wrote and received, wrote from Anastasia 9 and received from Tacos Supreme? Yes. And when the two of you were using FetLife, I've asked you before what it was that Brendan was looking for. What is it about Joe's answers and messages that attracted Brendan to selecting Joe? Did he ever tell you? [00:44:52] Speaker 3: He told me at some point too, but he was always making comments like that Joe was the white person. [00:45:05] Speaker 2: Did he say why? [00:45:08] Speaker 3: Because he seemed to be like the person who would do the things that Brendan needed the person to do. [00:45:19] Speaker 2: Okay. And I'm now going to ask you to look at Commonwealth 68, 69, 70, 71, and 72 one at a time. Can you go back to that? Go back to that? Yeah. You're still connected. Okay. [00:45:44] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:45:45] Speaker 2: And Judge, let's look at 68 first. We're just getting back to the podium. Hold on. Okay. Oh, I'm sorry, Your Honor. I do think we probably, these are all Excel spreadsheets. Okay. Do you want to ask that? Yeah. We're having trouble with Excel from this computer. Okay. So first, if we could look at 68 from the witness and council views only. And again, Your Honor, the parties have stipulated to the FetLife chats. So I believe that all of these exhibits can be admitted, but I'd ask that they be admitted under seal. 68, 69, 70? 68, 69, 70, 71, and 72. [00:46:31] Speaker 1: Okay. Is that correct, Mr. Carroll? Do you need to see them all? She said you've already agreed to, not the miscibility, but just to the foundation. [00:46:43] Speaker 2: These are the same exhibits that were provided to council last weekend. There. [00:46:48] Speaker 1: But if you could go through them. Do you want them to go through these and make sure? Okay. You need to see them. Is that what she said? I'm sorry. If you don't have your microphone on, I have a lot of trouble hearing you up here. Okay. All right. So you need to see. I do. My client and I need to see. You go through all those exhibits, Ms. Bressler. [00:47:09] Speaker 2: Okay. So looking at 68 is a short one. [00:47:26] Speaker 4: The one that's on the screen right now? Yes. All right. [00:47:29] Speaker 1: So 68 in evidence under seal. Is this 69 we're looking at now? This is 69. All right. [00:47:41] Speaker ?: No objection. All right. [00:47:43] Speaker 4: No objection. [00:47:44] Speaker 1: 69 under seal. [00:47:45] Speaker ?: No objection. That's 67. Is that correct? Let me see. [00:47:45] Speaker 1: I'm sorry. 70. [00:47:47] Speaker ?: 70. Okay. 70. 70. 70. Okay. under seal. 71. 71. We're going to look at 71. Okay. If we look at 71. I'm going to look at 71. Okay. I'm going to look at 71. I'm going to look at 71. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. I'm going to look at 71. Okay. I'm going to look at 71. Okay. I'm going to look at 71. I'm going to look at 71. [00:48:06] Speaker 4: Okay. [00:48:07] Speaker 1: I'm going to look at 71. I'm going to look at 71. Okay. I'm going to look at 71. Okay. I'm going to look at 71. I'm going to look at 71. [00:48:14] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:48:15] Speaker 1: I'm going to look at 71. [00:48:16] Speaker 2: I'm going to look at 71. I'm going to look at 71. [00:48:20] Speaker ?: All right. 71 under seal and then 72. Okay. I'm going to look at 71. I'm going to look at 71. I'm going to look at 71. I'm going to look at 71. I'm going to look at 71. Okay. I'm going to look at 71. I'm going to look at 71. I'm going to look at 71. I'm going to look at 71. [00:48:37] Speaker 1: I'm going to look at 71. I'm going to look at 71. 72. Okay. All right. So 72 also under seal. Okay. Thank you. Okay. [00:49:05] Speaker 2: If we could go back to 68. Can you see on your screen commonwealth 68? [00:49:20] Speaker 3: Yes. Okay. [00:49:22] Speaker 2: And you see the, again, in the menu, in the title bar there, you see ID, conversation ID, user ID, body. So the conversation ID that we're looking at, I just want to check and make sure we're both looking at the same thing. Um, four, four, six, seven, seven, four, five, two, three. Yes. Okay. So we see these messages, um, between this user ID and then, um, and then the Anastasia profile. Um, this user ID says, "I wish I could come get, I wish I could get you to come meet me at my hotel in Richmond next Wednesday night." And then the Anastasia profile says, "Thank you. Richmond is too far for me. I'm looking to chat a bit before meeting someone." So why would it be that you guys wouldn't have pursued this user? [00:50:17] Speaker 3: Um, because all along, um, it's planned for the person to come in, in the house. [00:50:28] Speaker 2: And when, um, we're looking again at the Anastasia profile, is it you and/or Brendan who is operating the Anastasia profile? Yes. [00:50:38] Speaker 3: Okay. [00:50:39] Speaker 2: Then if we could move on to Commonwealth 69. So, just making sure that we're looking at the same thing on the screen. I'm looking at conversation four, four, seven, eight, six, eight, six, nine, zero. Yes. All right. Okay. So, this person is looking for, um, someone to meet up with at restaurants and coffee shops and just talking and getting to know one another. They'd like to go to an event eventually, and they say they're pretty new to Fetworld but willing to learn. And then the Anastasia profile says, "I'm not looking to go out on dates. Sorry." Um, why is it that you, the two of you wouldn't have pursued, why would Brendan have not pursued this person, um, to, uh, uh, to further converse with? [00:51:38] Speaker 3: Sorry, can you, I'm sorry. It's okay. [00:51:42] Speaker 2: So, this person is asking to meet out in public. Mm-hmm. Is that something that Brendan was interested in having the Anastasia profile do? No. Why not? [00:51:52] Speaker 3: Because, again, he needs somebody to, that would agree to come to the house. Yeah. So, these are the things that he needed the person to do. [00:52:06] Speaker 2: And, um, and, and meeting out in public is, is not something that. [00:52:12] Speaker 3: No. [00:52:13] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:52:14] Speaker 2: Let's look at the, um, exhibit Commonwealth's 70. [00:52:26] Speaker ?: Ready? [00:52:27] Speaker 2: I want to stay at the top first. Okay. So, again, just making sure we're looking at the same, uh, the same document. I'm looking at conversation ID 452-721-523. Yes. Yes. [00:52:47] Speaker 3: Okay. [00:52:48] Speaker 2: Yes. Okay. So, the first, so this user ID messages the Anastasia profile and says, "Saw your ad. I'm interested. A little bit about what I like and have done in the past. First off, restraints. And I've used rope and some leather cuffs and some vinyl tape." So, profile goes on to describe pretty specifically, um, what experience, um, and what, uh, equipment, um, that this person has and, and can bring, um, to this relationship. So, is this someone that, um, friend, that, that, is this someone that the two of you might have been interested in? [00:53:40] Speaker 3: Can I just read it over? [00:53:42] Speaker 2: Say that again? [00:53:43] Speaker 3: Can I just read it over? [00:53:44] Speaker 2: Yes, of course. [00:53:45] Speaker ?: Take your time. Thank you. [00:54:17] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:54:23] Speaker 2: And if you could scroll down a little bit. So this conversation looks like it went on for a little bit longer than the past two conversations. Is that fair? [00:54:37] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:54:38] Speaker 2: Okay. And then if you look at cell number 931, their profile says, the other user says, I would expect that you might want to meet somewhere in public before doing anything in private. Your call on how or when to do that. Most weekdays I could get away at some point during the day to get a bite to eat or coffee or a drink after work. And then it goes on from there. Did you guys answer that? Take a look at the spreadsheet and let me know if you see an answer to this request to get together. [00:55:20] Speaker 3: No. [00:55:21] Speaker 2: And why wouldn't you have responded? [00:55:25] Speaker 3: Because that's not something he was interested in, going for a coffee or meeting in public. Okay. [00:55:36] Speaker 2: And then if we could go on to Commonwealth 72. And then if we can move down to cell number 571. Okay. So in this conversation, and let's make sure I'm looking at the same conversation again. I'm looking at conversation 448-599-624. [00:56:29] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:56:30] Speaker 2: Yes. Okay. So in this conversation, there's some initial talk. And then in cell number 571, the Anastasia profile says, I don't have restraints. It's something you would need to bring and be comfortable doing. Sounds really intense. And then there's more, but I'm not going to read that aloud. Why did the other user need to bring restraints? [00:56:56] Speaker 3: Well, because she, well, we didn't have it. And whoever the person was going to be was supposed to bring all the stuff, like the restraints and lockups, whatever the person's going to, supposed to have to bring. [00:57:17] Speaker 2: And whose idea was that? [00:57:18] Speaker 3: Brandon's. [00:57:19] Speaker 2: And what else was the person eventually supposed to bring? [00:57:25] Speaker 3: Eventually, you had the person to bring a knife. [00:57:29] Speaker 2: Okay. And when we look at cell number 572, this user responds to the Anastasia profile. And this user says, so I'm a vet that we need to work up two restraints. I don't recommend them until the second or third time, once trust is there. And then in 573, this user says, if you're for real, let's grab a drink or coffee in public to see if there's attraction. No expectations. I work out in Fairfax County on Tuesdays, if you're around. And then Anastasia responds in 574. And is it you and, oops, is it you and Brendan still operating the Anastasia profile at this point in time? [00:58:26] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:58:28] Speaker 2: So you tell her, I'm not interested in going on a regular date. That takes away from the excitement and the thrill of the first meeting. Why is that? So this is the third time that we've seen FetLife users saying, let's meet someplace. Let's meet in public. And this person says, essentially, I've been doing this a while and usually we don't get to that part until the second or third time we meet. So why is it important or why is it significant that, why is it, again, that the Anastasia profile keeps refusing to meet in public? [00:59:16] Speaker 3: Because of the plan that I had in mind, the two happened in the house. The person would need to come over, bring their stuff. And because it was not real, it was not Christine talking. So there was no way going out on the date to first meet the person. [00:59:41] Speaker 2: All right. Let's move on to Commonwealth 71. And then just again, make sure we're looking at the same conversation. I'm looking at conversation ID 446-943-660. [01:00:08] Speaker 3: Yes. [01:00:12] Speaker 2: This conversation, and I'm going to ask if we could just scroll through the conversation so we can see kind of the length of it. So it looks like this conversation is longer to me. Does it look longer to you? [01:00:28] Speaker 3: Yes. [01:00:29] Speaker 2: And if we could look at cell 145. So in this conversation, can you take a look at cell 145, 146, 147, and 148, 149? I'm going to go. And so this user is still expressing, this is a new user, this is a different user, and this user is expressing discomfort at coming to someone else's house, this user says. I mean, I'm more than fine to play that role, just not at someone else's house, where your husband could come home at any time. And then the Anastasia profile, which again, is that you and Brendan at the Anastasia profile? Yes. And so you tell this user that he works a set schedule and that she works a rotating schedule and child care responsibilities make it harder to plan around. And that they're only comfortable at my house and feel best about being there and recovering and relaxing at home afterwards. Again, the Anastasia profile, you and Brendan are saying, we don't want to come, we don't want to come outside of our house. And is this for the same reason? Yes. And then this user in cell number 143 tells her, the concept is very hot. Yeah, but the way you explain it does not look great on my side if anything were to go wrong. Basically, going into your home uninvited, tying you up and taking advantage of you. Is that what the intent was? To have someone come in? Yes. And to behave in the manner- [01:03:09] Speaker 4: I'm sorry, I'm just going to object to the leading nature of these questions. [01:03:12] Speaker 2: Did you and Brendan ever agree to meet a FetLife user in public? [01:03:24] Speaker 3: No. [01:03:25] Speaker 2: Did you ever agree to meet another FetLife user at a hotel? [01:03:30] Speaker 3: No. [01:03:31] Speaker 2: Or at another user's home or work? [01:03:35] Speaker 3: No. [01:03:39] Speaker 2: So, ultimately, out of all the users in the Commonwealth 67 and the few conversations that we've explored, Joe Ryan was selected. Who chose Joe? [01:03:54] Speaker 3: Brendan. [01:03:56] Speaker 2: And did he say why he picked Joe after interacting with him on FetLife? [01:04:02] Speaker 3: It was mostly because he made Brendan feel confident enough that he would be the person to play the role that needed a person to play, which means being aggressive and hold her down and come over to the house and bring stuff and all that, yeah. [01:04:29] Speaker 2: And did you and the defendant ever use any other form of communication with Joe Ryan? [01:04:37] Speaker 3: Yes. [01:04:38] Speaker 2: And what form of communication was that? [01:04:41] Speaker 3: It was Telegram. [01:04:43] Speaker 2: And were you present when the Telegram account was created? [01:04:48] Speaker 3: Yes. [01:04:49] Speaker 2: Who created the Telegram account? [01:04:51] Speaker 3: Brendan. [01:04:51] Speaker 2: And how did he do that? [01:04:54] Speaker 3: He used her laptop on its anonymous page, and he had her cell phone with him at the time because he needed to receive a code on her cell phone so she could create the account on Telegram. [01:05:16] Speaker 2: And how did you and the defendant communicate with Joe Ryan on Telegram? [01:05:21] Speaker 3: By texting. [01:05:24] Speaker 2: Did you use any other form of communication on Telegram with him? [01:05:30] Speaker 3: Phone call. Like, yeah, phone call. [01:05:36] Speaker 2: And who was it that spoke on the phone with Joe Ryan when you had that phone call? [01:05:42] Speaker 3: I spoke to Joe. [01:05:48] Speaker 1: When you spoke on the phone, did Joe comment on your accent? [01:06:10] Speaker 3: Yes. [01:06:12] Speaker 2: What did he say? [01:06:13] Speaker 3: That was the first thing he said. As soon as he said hi, he was surprised that I had an accent. And he asked, oh, you have an accent? I didn't know. Mandate him. Yes. [01:06:29] Speaker 2: Now I'm going to show you Commonwealth 73, and I would ask for this to be displayed to counsel and witness only. And if I could have the courts indulgent for just one moment. Sure. Okay. Do you have something on your screen in front of you? [01:06:57] Speaker 3: Yes. [01:06:57] Speaker 2: Okay. And Judge, Commonwealth 73 has been stipulated, admissibility has been stipulated by the parties. [01:07:06] Speaker ?: All right. [01:07:06] Speaker 1: Yes, sir. Okay. That's true. Okay. So 73 in evidence. Thank you. Yep. [01:07:10] Speaker 2: And so we could publish that to the jury. I'm going to scroll. This is a lengthy exhibit, so I'm not going to scroll through all of the bubbles, but I'm just going to scroll through a few pages so that you can get a sense of the two parties communicating. Now, in looking at these conversations, we see that the blue bubbles are from Anastasia. Who is operating the Anastasia profile on Telegram? Brennan and I. And then we see the green bubbles are from Joe, the owner of Joe. [01:08:05] Speaker ?: Yeah. [01:08:06] Speaker 2: Did you come to know who that person was, or did you learn who that person was? [01:08:12] Speaker 3: Joe? Mm-hmm. I mean, just when he came to the house that day. Okay. [01:08:22] Speaker 2: I'm looking at page two. Joe sends a message on February 20th that says, I'm looking forward to Friday. Who chose February 24th, 2023 as the date? [01:08:45] Speaker 3: Brennan. [01:08:46] Speaker 2: And did he say why he chose that date? [01:08:49] Speaker 3: He did say why. But right now I can't recall. [01:08:56] Speaker 2: Okay. I'm going to scroll forward to page 28. I apologize for the scrolling. There is a photograph in one of Joe's posts that I'm going to try to blow up here. Take a look at the photograph. Do you see it in front of you? [01:09:34] Speaker 3: Yes. [01:09:35] Speaker 2: Did Brendan see that photograph? [01:09:37] Speaker 3: He did. [01:09:38] Speaker 2: And did he make any comments on that photograph? [01:09:42] Speaker 3: Yeah. What did he say? That there was not the knife he was expecting the person to bring. On the other night, he was expecting a point tonight. That would be easier. [01:10:00] Speaker 2: And I'm going to move down to page 41. On page 41, we see the Anastasia profile. Again, is that still you and Brendan? [01:10:34] Speaker 3: Yes. [01:10:34] Speaker 2: And the Anastasia profile says, oh, I forgot to tell you, I do have a dog. She's very nice, but she will be in the basement. Who sent that message? [01:10:46] Speaker 3: Brendan. [01:10:51] Speaker 2: I am going to terminate this view here. If I could ask for it to be terminated to the gallery. Before February 24th, 2023, the day of, did the defendant ask you to do other things to get ready? [01:11:23] Speaker 3: Can you ask differently? [01:11:27] Speaker 2: Sure. Did you keep the same cell phone that you initially obtained when you came to the U.S.? No. Can you tell me about your cell phone in relation to the date of February 24th, 2023? [01:11:49] Speaker 3: Yeah. A few days prior, Brendan told us to trade in our phones. Okay. [01:12:00] Speaker 2: And did you do that? [01:12:02] Speaker 3: Yes. [01:12:04] Speaker 2: And why did you do that? Why was it necessary to get a new phone? [01:12:08] Speaker 3: Because he told me to get rid of my other phone where it had pictures and our stuff. And because even if I, even if I reset my phone, it was to be able to see the things I had before. [01:12:32] Speaker 2: And what about your Apple ID? Did you keep the same Apple ID? [01:12:36] Speaker 3: No. [01:12:38] Speaker 2: Why did you change Apple ID? [01:12:41] Speaker 3: Because they also said that I would be able to see through my Apple ID the things I had on my phone. [01:12:47] Speaker 2: And did Brendan get a new phone as well? [01:12:54] Speaker 3: He did. [01:12:55] Speaker 2: Did it happen at the same time or at a different time than you? [01:12:59] Speaker 3: A different time. [01:13:01] Speaker 2: And were there any changes to the home? [01:13:08] Speaker 3: Yes. [01:13:09] Speaker 2: Can you talk about, can you talk about that? [01:13:14] Speaker 3: They changed all the windows in the house. And Brendan's, Brendan's description of the, the window was, that was more soundproof. That's how I would say it. I'm not sure if that's how you call it, but that's, that's the description. [01:13:34] Speaker 2: Okay. And what, if anything, did he have you do with regard to that? [01:13:40] Speaker 3: After they changed the, the windows in the house, he, he told me to, for us to, to test. And he had told me to go up to the master bedroom and he would be outside in the driveway. And he told me for me to scream from the master bedroom to see if he could hear anything from the driveway. But I, I didn't, I didn't do it. [01:14:10] Speaker 2: Okay. Um, did you do anything different in the dad? [01:14:15] Speaker 3: Instead, he, he told, told me so I could go out in the driveway and he would go up to the master bedroom. And he would be the one screaming. And I didn't just tell him whether or not I heard anything, but also from the, from the backyard, because the back of the house had, um, trail and neighbors. And he would make sure people didn't hear from her. [01:14:45] Speaker 2: And did you do that? [01:14:46] Speaker 3: I was out to see if I could hear him. Yes. [01:14:50] Speaker 2: And could you? [01:14:51] Speaker 3: Barely. [01:14:54] Speaker 2: Um, and then where did you usually park your car? [01:14:57] Speaker 3: My car I would park normally in the driveway. Other times I'd park by the, by the mailbox in the coat sack. [01:15:06] Speaker 2: And, um, did you park it somewhere else in preparation for February 24th, 2023? [01:15:12] Speaker 3: Yeah, the night before I parked in the coat sack. Why did you do that? Brennan told me to do so because maybe Joe would come around to see what he's get, he was getting himself into and, or maybe, maybe in the morning and then he would see a different car and you'd scare him away and yeah. [01:15:40] Speaker 2: And then, so those are all things that you, you did. Um, did the defendant do anything else in preparation for that day? [01:15:49] Speaker 3: Yeah. He went around in the neighborhood, um, checking for, bring cameras, doorbell cameras, um, the doors. Um, she knew that our neighbor, he didn't have cameras. Um, and our neighbor to our left and our neighbor, John, in front of us also didn't, didn't have cameras, but he was checking for other, other neighbors. Um, and also changing his routine to, so they, that happened, he, you don't be odd that he was. McDonald's like six minutes away. So he started going to leave in the house earlier to go to work and he would stop by somewhere else to eat breakfast or something. And yeah. And so that [01:16:55] Speaker 2: he wouldn't be out. Okay. How did the defendant know that Christine would be out of the home on that morning? I'm sorry. How did the defendant know that Christine would be at home that morning? [01:17:12] Speaker 3: Yeah. She was scheduled to work that Friday morning and he had told me that he would talk to her out of it to change. And so instead of going to work on that morning, she would be off [01:17:27] Speaker 2: and she would be home. And what was the plan for you and Valerie to be out of the house? [01:17:37] Speaker 3: Yeah. I said about telling her that Valerie and I would go to the zoo, spend all day at the zoo. And we would be living the house early. And so yeah, that was the plan for me and Valerie. When did you tell her about the plan? I told her it was a few days prior to, but I told her in person because she didn't want any messages where I'll be asking, ask and tell her about it. So the conversation I had her was in person a few days prior. [01:18:21] Speaker 2: And you said, and you said the conversation was in person and why? I couldn't hear you. [01:18:26] Speaker 3: Yeah. Oh, we couldn't hear. Yeah. Why was the conversation in person? So you didn't have like, you didn't be me requesting talk down here that we're going, asking to go. And yeah. So he wanted things in person. [01:18:43] Speaker 2: And who wanted things in person? [01:18:46] Speaker 3: Brandon. [01:18:47] Speaker 2: Okay. Was there really a no Paris trip planned for the zoo that morning? [01:18:52] Speaker 3: No, it was not. [01:19:02] Speaker 2: When you woke up on the morning of the 24th, what happened first? [01:19:08] Speaker 3: I woke up early. I think I had an alarm on my phone. And downstairs to the kitchen. [01:19:19] Speaker 2: Do you recall what time you got up? [01:19:24] Speaker 3: I would say six something. [01:19:27] Speaker 2: Did you wake up Valerie that morning? [01:19:29] Speaker 3: No, Brandon did. [01:19:31] Speaker 2: And who brought Valerie to you that morning? [01:19:35] Speaker 3: Brandon. [01:19:36] Speaker 2: Did he say anything to you when he left Valerie with you? [01:19:41] Speaker 3: She said Christine was asleep. [01:19:46] Speaker 2: And what did you do next? [01:19:50] Speaker 3: Next, I start getting her ready. Downstairs. And yeah, for now, I was just getting her ready. Like, in the living room, downstairs. [01:20:18] Speaker ?: Yeah. Yeah. [01:20:19] Speaker 2: Yeah. [01:20:20] Speaker ?: Yeah. Okay. [01:20:22] Speaker 2: Did you or Brendan text Joe that morning? Yes. And on what platform? [01:20:25] Speaker 3: On what what? [01:20:26] Speaker ?: On what platform? How did you contact him? [01:20:28] Speaker 2: Oh, Telegram. Okay. And in the Telegram messages, we can see instructions for Joe to park in the driveway. Mm-hmm. [01:20:34] Speaker ?: How? [01:20:34] Speaker 3: What exhibit is this? [01:20:35] Speaker 2: I'm sorry. I'm sorry. [01:20:37] Speaker ?: What exhibit is this on the screen? Oh, I apologize, your honor. This is commonwealth 73. [01:20:40] Speaker 2: 73. So it's already in evidence. Yes, it's already in evidence. [01:20:43] Speaker ?: So we can publish it to the jury. [01:20:44] Speaker 2: Thank you. Um, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. What exhibit is this on the screen? Oh, I apologize, your honor. This is commonwealth 73. 73. So it's already in evidence. Yes, it's already in evidence. [01:20:53] Speaker 1: So we can publish it to the jury. Thank you. Um, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. [01:20:58] Speaker ?: What exhibit is this on the screen? [01:20:59] Speaker 2: Oh, I apologize, your honor. I apologize, I'm not exactly on what page. Okay, I'm just gonna move on. I can't find the page at this moment. Um, how is Joe supposed to get into the house? [01:21:23] Speaker 3: Um, we had told him during the phone call that the door would be... unlocked. Okay. [01:21:31] Speaker 2: And, um, who unlocked the front door? [01:21:35] Speaker 3: Brandon did, using Christine's cell phone. [01:21:40] Speaker ?: And, um... [01:21:42] Speaker 2: I'm gonna show you, I could have, um, the view to be to counsel and the witness only at this point. Commonwealth 231. [01:21:58] Speaker ?: Is that 231? 231. [01:22:00] Speaker 2: Thank you. Can you see that? Yeah. Do you know what that is? Do you recognize that? I would say it's Christine's cell phone. And, um, do you, uh, recognize the app that is showing? Yes. [01:22:11] Speaker ?: That's the, uh, that they would control the front door lock and the thermostat in the house. And, um, is, uh, is, is this the app that was, that was used to unlock the door? [01:22:11] Speaker 3: Yeah. [01:22:12] Speaker 2: How is the door going to stay unlocked? Yeah. How is the door going to stay unlocked? [01:22:15] Speaker 3: Yeah. It has to be changed. It has to be deactivated. [01:22:18] Speaker 2: It has to be deactivated through the, the app on the cell phone. The person can choose. Um, do you, uh, do you, uh, recognize the app that is showing? Yes. [01:22:24] Speaker 3: That's the, uh, that they would control the front door lock and the thermostat in the house. [01:22:28] Speaker 2: And, um, is, uh, is, uh, is, is this the app that was, that was used to unlock the door? Yeah. How is the door going to stay unlocked? [01:22:41] Speaker 3: It has to be changed. It has to be deactivated through the, the app on the cell phone. The person can choose how many minutes the door is going to lock. Okay. [01:22:55] Speaker 2: Judge, at this point in time, I'm going to ask to admit common laws 231. Any objections? No. All right. 231. And that can be published to the jury. And published. Yes. What did Brendan do with the phone, if anything, um, after he made sure that the door would stay unlocked? [01:23:24] Speaker ?: Yes. [01:23:25] Speaker 3: Um, he had, he deactivated the door lock on her phone. And he turned it off and hit the phone in the, in the drawer, in the bar area we have, like, in the kitchen. [01:23:41] Speaker 2: Uh, and at this point we can terminate the view. All right. Before the two of you left the house that morning, did you have any other conversation with Brendan? No. [01:24:00] Speaker 3: No. He had, after he texted the jail, he said, Brendan told me he would be leaving the house at that moment for me to wait a few minutes before leaving the house with Valerie. [01:24:14] Speaker 2: What, if anything, did he give you in that morning before the two of you left? A gun. [01:24:20] Speaker ?: A gun. What kind of gun? A handgun. And what did you do with that? [01:24:22] Speaker 3: I put it in my pocket, in my sweater. [01:24:36] Speaker 2: Who was it that left the house first? Brendan did. And, um, what was the plan for him that morning? Where was he going to go and what was going to happen next? [01:24:49] Speaker 3: He was going to stay, um, he was going to go to the McDonald's, which is, uh, I'd say five, six minutes away from our house by the clock tower. And, um, he had to stay there until whenever I called him. [01:25:10] Speaker 2: And what were you supposed to do? [01:25:14] Speaker 3: I was supposed to stay in the car with Valerie to put something on her iPad for her to watch. And as soon as I saw, um, DeRion pulling up the driveway, I was supposed to give Christina a call, but her phone would be off and it would go to voicemail. And I was supposed to call him right away and tell him there was somebody strange, strange coming, coming to the house and, and that I was, I was scared and yeah. [01:25:57] Speaker 2: Okay. And, um, so let's go step by step. Did you leave the house? Yeah. Did you go to the car? Yes. And, um, did you, uh, did you put Valerie inside the car? Yes. And did you begin to put a show on for her? [01:26:23] Speaker 3: Yeah. I was trying to connect her tablet on the wifi on my phone. Okay. So I could put on a show for her on Netflix. [01:26:31] Speaker 2: And then what, if anything, did you see after that? [01:26:35] Speaker 3: Um, thank you for a couple of minutes. I do not know how many minutes passed. That's when I saw Jill Pauline in the driveway and I was still parked in the, in the gold sack. And I called Christine's phone and went to voicemail. And I called Brendan right after, as he had instructed me to do. [01:27:04] Speaker 2: And did Brendan say why he wanted you to call Christine's phone and then call his phone? [01:27:10] Speaker 3: Yeah. So then you'd have the history, the phone call history on her phone that I had tried to call her. Um, yeah. [01:27:21] Speaker ?: Yeah. [01:27:22] Speaker 2: And then what happened next? You said you saw Joe arrive. Mm-hmm. What, if anything, did you see him do? [01:27:30] Speaker 3: He just went straight to the, to the driveway and parked, uh, next to Christine's car. And I called, um, after I called Christine, I called Brendan and then he picked up the phone and I, and I was telling him just the way he had said and like, there is somebody strange. And I come to the house and I'm scared. And he, he told me he would, for me to stay there, he would be coming home. Um, and that he, he would try to also call Christine. [01:28:10] Speaker 2: I'm going to go backwards a little bit. Do you recall when it was that Brendan told you when Joe arrives, call Christine and then call me? Do you recall when he told you that? [01:28:28] Speaker 3: It was throughout the, the whole process when he had, he had all his plan in his mind. And then he just told me how things were going to happen. This is going to happen. You do this and then you do that. And that's going to happen. But I do not, I cannot say for sure. Like the period, like when that was, I cannot say it. Okay. [01:28:53] Speaker 2: At this point, um, you've seen Joe Ryan go into the house. You've made your phone calls. What if anything happened at this point? [01:29:05] Speaker 3: Um, after make, after I call Brendan, he says he's coming and then a few minutes passed. Again, I don't know how many minutes and, but it felt like forever. And he, he arrived, he parked his car next to the, to the mailbox. And he got up out the car. He was crossing the street and I got out the car. I got Valerie out of the car too. Um, then we went following him to the, to the back of the house. To the, to the door that leads us into the basement. [01:29:54] Speaker 2: Okay. And, um, whose idea was it to go into the basement? [01:30:00] Speaker 3: Brendan. [01:30:01] Speaker 2: And whose idea was it for all of you to go into the basement? [01:30:05] Speaker 3: Brendan. [01:30:07] Speaker 2: And did all three of you go into the basement together? Yeah. And, um, when you access to the basement, um, did you go in through the front door of the house? Did you go in through the back door of the house? How did you get in? [01:30:22] Speaker 3: When the three of us got into the house through the basement door, which was in the, in the back of the house. [01:30:30] Speaker 2: And when the three of you went into the basement, did anyone lock the door to the outside that you had just come in after you went inside? [01:30:44] Speaker 3: No. After when I started, I did not recall locking the door or doing anything at the door. [01:30:51] Speaker 2: Do you recall if their dog was in the basement when you went inside? [01:30:54] Speaker 3: Yeah. I saw her in the flesh. Um, and also because I knew she, she was going to be there in the basement. But what happened with her after that? I don't know. [01:31:10] Speaker 2: Okay. Did she go upstairs with you? Uh, what, what is it? I'll move on. Um, so is Valerie still with you at this point in time while you're in the basement? Yes. Okay. And so what did, uh, what did you do with Valerie? [01:31:31] Speaker 3: Bernadette told us to stay there in the basement. And again, I knew we were supposed to stay there, she and I. And he, he went upstairs to the main floor. Okay. [01:31:45] Speaker 2: And what did, what if anything did you do? [01:31:47] Speaker 3: I just stayed with her. And after a couple of minutes passed by and I had told her for you to like stay here. And then I, I also went upstairs to, to the, to the main floor. [01:32:02] Speaker 2: Was that something that you decided to do or was that a part of, um, was that something that you were told to do? [01:32:09] Speaker 3: Uh, it was something I was told to do. Was part of his plan. Um, say that again? [01:32:13] Speaker 2: Yeah. [01:32:14] Speaker 3: Was part of his plan. [01:32:15] Speaker 2: Okay. And when you say it was a part of his plan, whose plan? [01:32:19] Speaker 3: Brenda's. [01:32:20] Speaker 2: Okay. So, um, you left Valerie in the basement and you said you went upstairs? [01:32:27] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm. [01:32:28] Speaker ?: Okay. [01:32:29] Speaker 2: When you got to the main level, um, did you or Brendan lock the door at the top of the [01:32:41] Speaker 3: basement stairs? I did not recall doing that. [01:32:43] Speaker 2: And what if anything did you do next? [01:32:47] Speaker 3: Um, when I got to the, to the main floor, Brendan was standing at the bottom of the stairs, the stairs that lead us upstairs. Um, and he was just listening. Then he gestured to me, like, to, for me to wait, just listen to the sound. Um, and the sound was, like, slapping. That's the, when I was slapping somebody, that's the sound we could hear. And, um, what if anything happened after that? Um, I think we were listening to that sound for a few seconds. And he took his gun out. And, uh, because I also had the gun with me, I just did the same. And he proceeded to go upstairs. And I just followed him upstairs to, to the master bedroom. [01:33:59] Speaker 2: Who opened the bedroom door? [01:34:01] Speaker 3: Brendan. [01:34:02] Speaker 2: Did you go inside the bedroom? Yes. And what did you see when you went inside the bedroom? [01:34:10] Speaker 3: When we first get into the bedroom, I could see that the bed we have in the master bedroom, was kind of tall. And so from, from my point of view, all I could see was, like, Joe. The other woman I knew was Joe. Like, on top of Christine, in a way, on this pipe, holding her down. And that was my, my first view as soon as I get into the bedroom. [01:34:48] Speaker 2: Were you able to tell, um, were you able to see Christine at all at that point? [01:34:52] Speaker 3: At that point, no. [01:34:54] Speaker 2: Did anyone say anything when you, the two of you went into the bedroom? [01:35:00] Speaker 3: Yeah. When I got to the bedroom, Brendan said, um, he yelled, police officer. And Christine's first reaction, that was the first time I heard she say anything at that point. And then she yelled back at Brendan, saying, Brendan, he has a knife. And yeah, that's, um, that's when Brendan first shot Joe. [01:35:34] Speaker 2: Did you see Joe before he was shot? [01:35:38] Speaker 3: Yeah. [01:35:39] Speaker 2: What did he look like when he saw Brendan? After Brendan shot Joe, did anyone say anything? [01:35:52] Speaker 3: If anyone said anything? Yeah. Did anyone say anything in the room at that point? Yeah. Because, um, Brendan went to Christine. She was still, um, on the, on the floor. And I, at that point, she, she had, she had seen me. And she said, she had asked her what to do to Brendan, I think, regarding to that he shot Joe. And she said my name. She told me, "Judiana, call 911." [01:36:28] Speaker 2: And what did you do? [01:36:30] Speaker 3: I called 911. [01:36:32] Speaker 2: And what happened after you called 911? [01:36:37] Speaker 3: Um, at that point, Joe was already shot. So that's the, the, the sound in the background. And Brendan looks at me and just, in a way for me like to, um, to hang up the call. [01:37:01] Speaker 2: Did he tell you? Did he say, "Juliana, hang up the call?" [01:37:05] Speaker 3: No, he did not. [01:37:06] Speaker 2: How did he communicate to you? [01:37:08] Speaker 3: A gesture. [01:37:10] Speaker 2: And what gesture did he make? This. And so what did you do after he made that gesture? [01:37:19] Speaker 3: I hung up the phone, the, the, the phone call. [01:37:22] Speaker 2: What if anything happened next? [01:37:29] Speaker 3: Next, um, he was on top of Christine. Joe's laying there. And they told me to grab a towel from the, the master, um, bathroom. We have the closet. And I just went to the, to the master bathroom and grabbed him a towel and to bring it to him. And at this point in time, could you see Christine? [01:38:06] Speaker ?: Yes. [01:38:07] Speaker 2: What did you see Brendan do next? [01:38:10] Speaker 3: When I, when I was bringing him the towel, he, he had get, he, he got on top of her and that's when I first saw him stabbing her with a knife. Where in her body was he stabbing her? [01:38:37] Speaker 2: The neck. And were you able to see whether or not he stabbed her one time or more than one time? [01:38:44] Speaker 3: Um, I, when I first saw that happening, I ran to the, to the other side of the, the, the bed. And I was just crunching down on myself and covering my ears and covering my eyes. And a few times I looked and I was able to, to see him stabbing her. And, um, he would stab and other times he would hold the, the, the knife in a position how, how it was. [01:39:41] Speaker ?: He said he was holding the knife in a position. Yeah. How was he holding it? [01:39:57] Speaker 2: Um, this position, I think when the way he stabbed, he was just kind of like holding it. [01:40:14] Speaker 3: Putting pressure on it. [01:40:28] Speaker 2: And was he just holding onto the knife at that point? Or was he still stabbing her? [01:40:37] Speaker 3: I was holding on to the knife. [01:40:39] Speaker 2: Um, did you stab Christine at all? [01:40:45] Speaker 3: I did not. [01:40:46] Speaker 2: Did you touch Christine at all during this, at this point? [01:40:50] Speaker 3: No. [01:40:51] Speaker 2: Did you get any blood on you? [01:40:53] Speaker 3: I did. [01:40:54] Speaker 2: And how did you get blood on you? [01:40:57] Speaker 3: The blood on my hands. I remember because at the point when he was stabbing her, I had just, I was kneeling. Like she had, she was here and Brenda was like, stabbing her. And I came closer and was right here and I knelt on the, on the carpet. And I had put my, my hands on the, on the carpet. And as soon as I felt blood, I just, just threw my hands from the carpet. Why? What did the blood feel like? It was warm. [01:41:59] Speaker 2: Did you get blood on, uh, any other part of you? [01:42:03] Speaker 3: Yeah. Um, um, um, it was on my, on my shoes, but also on my socks. [01:42:16] Speaker 2: How did you get blood on your shoes? [01:42:19] Speaker 3: Uh, uh, walking around, I would say, freaking out. And I was pacing back and forth and it was pacing and staying in place, covering my eyes and ears. And I, I didn't want to hear what the, their conversation. And so I, I don't truly know like how I got blood on my socks. [01:42:55] Speaker 2: I. When did you take off your shoes? [01:42:58] Speaker 3: Um, when Brenda had told me 21, 28, he was telling me basically to go to the, to the, to the master, um, to the closet, to the safe. And he was telling me 21, 28. And it took me a while to know what he was talking about. And I was like, 21, 28, what? And we said, safe. And before I, I started going to the, to the, to the, to the, to the, to the closet, he told me take off your shoes. And I took off my shoes and I proceeded going to the, to the safe, um, on my tiptoes, like, with my socks on. [01:44:01] Speaker 2: Why was it that you went to the safe? Huh? Why did you go to the safe? [01:44:06] Speaker 3: Because it was also part of his plan and for reasons I can't make sense of them now, uh, given that I had the gun with me that morning. Um, yeah. [01:44:28] Speaker 2: But he wanted you to go to the safe? Yes. [01:44:33] Speaker 3: Okay. [01:44:34] Speaker 2: I'm going to show you a series of photographs at this point. And they are going to be commonwealth 74, 75, 76, 77, and 78. And if I could have them, um, displayed to the witness and council only, please. Okay. Um, I'm going to, um, scroll through these photos and I'm, and I'm going to ask you some questions about them. So this is commonwealth 74, 75, 76, 77, and 78. Do you recognize these photos? Yes. And, um, how do you recognize them? [01:45:29] Speaker 3: Um, these photos were taken at the police headquarters on the date that happened. And the last, the last picture, it's a picture of my shoes and, um, my socks. [01:45:46] Speaker 2: And the photos that show us 74, 75, 76, and 77. Do those, are those true and accurate depiction of, of the clothing that you were wearing that day? Yes. Judge. Judge. Judge. Judge. Judge. [01:46:07] Speaker ?: Judge. [01:46:07] Speaker 2: Judge. Judge. Judge. [01:46:33] Speaker ?: Judge. [01:46:33] Speaker 2: Judge. [01:46:34] Speaker ?: Judge. Judge. Judge. Judge. Judge. [01:47:02] Speaker 2: What, what, what did you do next? After 21, 28, you went to the safe, came back. What did you do at that point? [01:47:10] Speaker 3: Um, at that point, that's when I was, I, I, I stand in front of the, the dresser and the TV. And I'm telling Brendan that Joe is moving. He was moving. And, and Brendan, she, she, he doesn't have any reaction to that whatsoever. Um, and I just start telling him, he's moving, he's moving, he's behind you. And that's when I fired the, the shot too. That's when you, could you say that again? [01:48:02] Speaker 2: I fired. And when you say you fired, you fired what? A gun. The gun that, that was where? [01:48:12] Speaker 3: In my, um, that I had in my pocket, the, the handgun. Um. Did you hit anyone? Yes. Who'd you hit? Joe. What happened after you shot Joe? [01:48:30] Speaker ?: Melter shot him. He falls back. [01:48:31] Speaker 2: Um. [01:48:32] Speaker 3: Did you see Brendan touch Joe's body after you shot him? [01:48:37] Speaker ?: Touching, touching, touching, no. Did you see him interacting with, um, with Joe or Christine after you shot Joe? [01:48:38] Speaker 3: Well, he was still, um. He was still, um, stabbed in Christine. [01:48:40] Speaker ?: And, um, he was still, um, stabbed in Christine. [01:48:44] Speaker 2: And he had, he had, there was, he got her blood. And, uh, he was still, um, stabbed in Christine and he had, there was, he got her blood in, uh, [01:48:59] Speaker 3: a handful of blood. And he starts dripping, um, on, on Joe's body. [01:49:30] Speaker ?: Okay. [01:49:31] Speaker 2: Did you ever call 9-1-1 again? [01:49:33] Speaker 3: Yeah. [01:49:34] Speaker 2: Why did you call 9-1-1 again? [01:49:37] Speaker 3: I called 9-1-1 again when he, he told me he was, Brendan told me, he was ready for me to call. [01:49:45] Speaker 2: And, um, when you, when you made that call, do you recall what you said? [01:49:54] Speaker 3: I think I, I do not remember everything I said. I, I remember saying, uh, I guess a friend of mine was being stabbed and somebody was shot. And I couldn't talk the, the rest of the call. So Brendan took the lead and he was the one talking to the, to the responder to, on the, on the phone call. [01:50:32] Speaker 2: Did the police arrive that day after you called 9-1-1? [01:50:35] Speaker 3: They did. [01:50:38] Speaker 2: What did you do when the police arrived? [01:50:41] Speaker 3: The, the person on the phone, the 9-1-1, she was, she told me to not hang up on the phone and go make sure the door, the front door is open. And so I went downstairs to make sure the door was open. And that's when they were already like at the door at that point. [01:51:05] Speaker 2: And that day on the, on the day that the, the murders took place, did you speak to the police that day? Yes. [01:51:20] Speaker 3: Um, I think the first time I spoke to the police was in the, in the driveway. Um, and they took Valerie and I to, to the police headquarters. [01:51:40] Speaker 2: Did you talk to the police when you got to headquarters? Yes. And did you tell the, um, detectives that you spoke with that day, um, about the things that you testified to here today? [01:51:55] Speaker 3: The, that, what I told the detectives that day, um, it was the version Brendan had told me if I was ever, if I was ever, if I was ever to talk to a lawyer or this is ever going to happen. Like this the, this is the, this is what happened. The, the version I told the detectives that day, and that I eventually also told his lawyer, the same, the same version. [01:52:32] Speaker 1: Ms. Bursler, is this a good break point for the day? Yes. Possibly? Yes. All right. [01:52:39] Speaker ?: You want to check with. [01:52:40] Speaker 2: Judge, if I could have one more. Yes. [01:52:43] Speaker ?: Judge, this is a fine place to stop. All right. Just stay right there, ma'am. [01:52:46] Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen, since it's five o'clock, we're going to go ahead and release you for the day. Just a reminder tonight. Don't look at any news. Don't look at any social media. Do not talk to anybody about this case. And please do not do any outside research. Okay. And we'll, Deputy Johnson will take you back. Um, and just make sure you get here tomorrow at the, uh, correct time. So we can start right on time tomorrow at 10:00 AM. Okay. Perfect. Thank you. [01:53:18] Speaker ?: Thank you. Thank you. All right, ma'am. [01:53:49] Speaker 1: Just as a reminder, since you're still testifying, it's important that you do not talk to anybody about this case or your testimony. That includes the prosecutors or the defense attorney. Okay? Okay. You are allowed to talk to your attorney, Mr. Campbell, who for the record is present in the courtroom today. Okay? Okay. morning. Thank you. All right, anything further for this evening? Yes, JoJo, I'd like to. You want to approach? Sure. [01:55:12] Speaker ?: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.