Full interview: Pence's 2024 decision will come ‘by spring'

[0:00] Thank you so much, Mr. Vice President, for sitting down with us. [0:02] Thank you, Ellen. [0:03] We were inside, we were watching the speech. [0:05] I want to start, because you said in there that you won't abandon Ukraine until victory is achieved. [0:11] What is victory? [0:12] I think victory is what the people of Ukraine define it to be. [0:16] We need to stand with President Zelensky and stand with the courageous soldiers in Ukraine until they achieve that victory. [0:23] But we cannot falter in this cause. [0:26] The United States has led a coalition across the free world to support the people of Ukraine. [0:34] And now more than ever, on this dark anniversary, the people of Ukraine and Vladimir Putin need to know that we are going to continue to stand. [0:45] We're going to continue to provide the support, the humanitarian aid, the pressure on him and on the Russian economy until he relents. [0:54] And victory and peace are restored in Ukraine. [0:58] When you talk about until he relents, I think that, especially as I was listening to your speech in there, you talk about what could trigger NATO's Article 5 continued aggression could mean eventually sending American men and women into this fight. [1:12] I think that a lot of Americans might hear that and think, OK, where's the endgame here? [1:18] I mean, is this just support in perpetuity? [1:20] Like, where is the exit strategy? [1:22] No, I think the endgame here is to provide Ukraine with the military support they need to win. [1:34] Anyone who believes that Vladimir Putin would stop at the western border of Ukraine has another thing coming. [1:41] I mean, the reality is that the Trump-Pence administration was the only administration in the 21st century where Vladimir Putin did not attempt to redraw international lines by force. [1:54] Under the Bush administration, he moved Russian tanks into Georgia. [1:58] They're still there to this day. [1:59] Under the Obama administration, they took Crimea. [2:03] But under our administration, with the buildup of our military, with a demonstrated willingness to allow our armed forces to defend our interests, we took the fight to ISIS. [2:15] We took down the world's most dangerous terrorists. [2:18] It was American soldiers in Syria that confronted Russian mercenaries and used force to stop them. [2:26] The message Russia knew was that we would maintain peace through strength. [2:32] And I think in this moment, America needs to not only communicate strength but also urgency. [2:39] The Biden administration followed the policy of the Obama administration, refused to provide military support in the early days of their administration to Ukraine. [2:52] They changed that, the initiation of hostilities a year ago. [2:57] But time and again, the Biden administration has been slow to provide the military support that Ukraine needs. [3:05] What we need today is to keep our word, to provide that military support, provide it with urgency. [3:11] That's the quickest way back to peace and security in Ukraine and in the region. [3:17] And yet the conversation that I think is happening on Capitol Hill now, especially as Republicans have taken over the House, is there is reluctance towards continued spending on this issue. [3:26] And some of them are citing a policy from the Trump administration. [3:30] Some of these people who don't want to continue supporting Ukraine are saying, well, what about America first? [3:36] Well, America first is not America alone. [3:39] America first simply from the outset of our administration was that we would put the interests of our nation first. [3:48] But it is in the interest of our nation to support those who are confronting Russian aggression today just as much as it was during the years of the Soviet Union. [3:59] When Ronald Reagan articulated what came to be known as the Reagan doctrine, it was very simply understood that if your country, the people of your country were willing to fight the communists there, we would provide you with the support so that we would not have to fight them here. [4:16] And that's the same policy that worked to literally set into motion the forces that dismantled the Soviet Union. [4:23] And today, with renewed Russian aggression in Eastern Europe, with China's Communist Party continuing to make menacing statements and steps in the Asian Pacific, [4:35] Now more than ever, we need to make it clear that we will provide those who are defending their freedom with the means to defend themselves so that not only they can defend their freedom and sovereignty, [4:49] but that our sons and daughters are not drawn into conflicts that could have been avoided if we just supported the battle today. [4:58] As you talk about this new geopolitical landscape that we find ourselves in with Russia, with China, I want to read to you something that Florida Governor Ron DeSantis said earlier this week. [5:06] He downplayed Russia's strength at this moment, saying they're not a threat, quote, on the same level as China. [5:12] He also said that they were a third-rate military power. [5:15] What's the impact on the world stage of comments like that? [5:21] Russian tanks are in Georgia. [5:23] The Russian military has taken over Crimea, and now Russian aggression, one year in the making, has launched a war that has displaced millions and cost 300,000 lives, many more thousands wounded and injured. [5:39] We need to understand the real long-term threat of renewed Russian aggression in Europe, and I hold the view that it will not stop there. [5:53] During our administration in our very first year, Ali, there was roughly 120,000 Russian forces arrayed along the border of Eastern Europe. [6:04] We sent military personnel to our allies in the region, but I was actually asked to travel to the region myself. [6:10] I traveled to Georgia. [6:11] I traveled to Estonia and Latvia. [6:14] I stood with our allies literally just a few hundred miles away from where Russian forces were arrayed, and they never moved. [6:23] Because under our administration, we invested in our military at an unprecedented level for recent years, and we called on our NATO allies to meet their obligations for our common defense. [6:39] The right approach to this moment in history with renewed Russian aggression in Eastern Europe is strength, American strength, and calling on our allies to continue to meet their obligations for our common defense. [6:51] So would you say Ron DeSantis' characterization is wrong? [6:55] I would say anyone that thinks that Vladimir Putin will stop at Ukraine is wrong. [7:02] I want to talk about the moment that we're in right now. [7:04] There's a lot of speculation about potentially you running for president. [7:08] I know you've said that you're thinking about that. [7:10] What's your timeline for a decision there? [7:12] Well, I'm always very humbled when people ask about our future. [7:21] And we've been traveling around the country over the last few years. [7:24] We've gotten a lot of encouragement to consider entering the race for president of the United States, and we're giving a prayerful consideration. [7:32] I do think we have time. [7:35] The American people know me. [7:38] They know the Pence family. [7:39] And so we're going to continue to travel and listen. [7:42] I like what Ronald Reagan said many years ago when he offered that the American people have a funny way of letting you know if they want you to run for president. [7:53] So we're listening. [7:54] We're reflecting. [7:55] We're talking to friends. [7:57] But I promise to keep you posted. [7:59] So you think by summer, first debates in August? [8:02] Oh, I think by the spring. [8:06] Our family expects to have a very clear sense of our calling. [8:09] You know, I've often said I think there's two kinds of people in politics. [8:12] There's people that are called, people that are driven. [8:16] And if you read my book that came out late last year, you'll read that I've been both. [8:21] I've allowed my political ambition to get ahead of my values. [8:27] But over the last 20 years, we've tried to just answer to what we perceive to be a calling to serve Indiana, to serve the people of this country. [8:35] And so we're going to be discerning about it. [8:38] But I have a sense we'll have a clear idea by the spring. [8:40] I think implicit in saying you're considering running is the idea that you think you could be at least a different president, if not a better president, than your former boss. [8:50] Can you delineate just one policy difference that you might have with him? [8:53] Well, I think the times call for different leadership. [8:58] And I'm confident we'll have better choices. [9:00] And you're thinking about being one. [9:02] Than my old running mate. [9:04] Come 2024. [9:05] Have you talked to him lately? [9:07] I have not. [9:10] But I will tell you that as I've traveled around the country, I've heard two things. [9:14] Number one, I've heard countless Americans tell me that they want to get back to the policies of the Trump-Pence administration. [9:21] Policies that saw us make historic investments in our military, saw a peaceful and stable world, that saw our economy revived through tax cuts and unleashing American energy, saw conservatives on our courts on a secure southern border. [9:36] But the next thing I hear, Ali, is that they want to see us and our politics return to the kind of civility and respect that Americans show one another every day. [9:49] And I think that when we think about the large challenges facing the country today, the rise of China, our greatest economic and strategic threat, [9:59] when you think about the avalanche of debt that we're piling on our children and grandchildren, when you think about what appears to be a steady assault on traditional values of families in America, [10:13] now more than ever, we need the policies but the civility that makes it possible for us to generate real solutions for the American people. [10:22] Yeah, so in order to qualify for the debates, if you were to run, you would have to sign an RNC pledge that says you would support the eventual nominee [10:29] whoever that is, whoever that is. Do you plan to sign that? [10:32] Well, if I'm a candidate, I'm sure that I'll meet whatever the requirement is for debates. [10:42] But I mean to tell you, I know there's a particular focus on one candidate in the field today. [10:50] But especially for you. [10:51] But I'm going to tell you, I'm very confident that Republican primary voters are going to choose the right standard bearer for this moment in our nation's history, [11:01] someone that can provide not only the policies in leadership, but the style of leadership that will help bring our nation back. [11:10] I think there's just, I think for people, especially with you, there's a question about if you think this is a moment, [11:16] as someone who served in the Trump-Pence administration, to have a new generation of leadership, if you think it's time to move past President Trump. [11:24] Well, as I said, we're giving serious consideration to entering the campaign for president because I think the American people deserve better choices than the choices of the past. [11:36] Now, that being said, I don't think anybody could have beaten Hillary Clinton other than Donald Trump in 2016. [11:44] And I'm proud to run with him, proud to serve with him. [11:48] Obviously, the administration did not end well, but I'll always be proud of the record, the American people, [11:55] and I'll always believe the American people chose well in putting forward a standard bearer who could meet that moment and win in 2016. [12:05] But I really do believe that these times call for a different leadership, experienced, grounded in the same principles and ideals, [12:16] but also I think the American people long for leadership that at least would have the chance of uniting us around our highest ideals, [12:26] beginning with the respect and civility that the American people show one another every day. [12:31] And my last question, because you mentioned the end of the Trump-Pence administration, that it didn't end well, [12:35] of course, a reference to January 6th, the efforts to allegedly overturn the election results. [12:39] I know that you've said that you wouldn't comply with a subpoena. [12:43] And in just the last hour or so, our reporting is that the special counsel plans to compel a judge to compel you to testify. [12:50] If the federal judge says you've got to testify, do you testify? [12:55] Well, let me say the idea of subpoenaing a former vice president to testify in court against the president with whom they served, [13:08] I believe, is unprecedented in American history. [13:11] But as I said last week, I believe it's also unconstitutional. [13:15] And we'll make that case through the ordinary judicial processes, [13:20] but my counsel informs me that I'm constrained from speaking about it any further. [13:24] But I stand by what I said, and we'll continue to. [13:28] I know that you can't talk about the specifics of the case, [13:31] but I wonder if you can just zoom out and talk about if you think the Department of Justice's investigation [13:36] into potentially overturning an election is valid, is legitimate. [13:41] Well, as I've said before, I believe January 6th was a tragic day. [13:51] I had no right to overturn the election. [13:53] And President Trump was wrong. [13:57] I've said and I've written repeatedly that I thought his words that day were reckless, [14:04] endangered my family and people that were at the Capitol. [14:06] But I'm not convinced that taking bad advice from lawyers is a crime. [14:16] But I'll let the processes play out, [14:20] and we'll work with our counsel to make sure that we do as we've always done, [14:25] and that is adhere to the Constitution. [14:28] You know, Allie, that's what I did on January 6th. [14:30] I felt that my duty was clear under the Constitution [14:34] to simply preside over the session of Congress that would open and count the electoral votes. [14:40] By God's grace, we did that. [14:42] I also thought my duty under the Constitution was clear [14:45] when Speaker Pelosi and Senator Schumer attempted to use the 25th Amendment a few days later [14:53] to once again overturn the results of failed impeachments [15:00] and their opposition to our administration. [15:04] But today, in this moment, I'm going to stand firmly [15:08] on the Constitution of the United States, provisions that are there. [15:12] We'll take them into the courts, [15:13] and we'll have more to say about it in the days ahead. [15:20] We'll be listening. [15:21] Thank you so much. [15:22] I appreciate you spending some time with us and for inviting us here. [15:25] Thank you, Allie. [15:26] Yeah. [15:26] Thanks for coming. [15:27] Thank you. [15:27] Thank you.