Full interview: Boris Johnson on COP26 and UK government's plan to tackle climate change

[00:00:00] Speaker 1: You said these days ahead of us. You've talked about them as if they're a sort of date with destiny, but you've also talked about them as a way station. Which is it? [00:00:10] Gary: Well, it's both. Because unless you can make sure at COP next week in Glasgow that we keep alive this prospect of restricting the growth in the temperature of the planet, then we really face a real problem for humanity. And I think on the plane yesterday, I tried to suggest to you that civilization could go backwards and history could go into reverse. And here we are, Gary, in the Colosseum of Vespasian. The Roman Empire, they weren't expecting it, went into a reverse. And we had a dark ages. When the Roman Empire fell, it was largely as a result of uncontrolled immigration. People that the empire could no longer control its borders. People came in from the east and all over the place. And we went into a dark ages, or Europe went into a dark ages that lasted a very long time. And so the point of that is to say that it can happen again. People should not be so conceited as to imagine that history is a one-way ratchet. [00:01:22] Speaker 1: You used another analogy on the plane as well. You said we're 5-1 down at half time. It's not maybe your most familiar sport, but people don't come back from 5-1 after half time. How much do people panic? [00:01:35] Gary: Not always. They don't. And I think it's the point of that particular metaphor. And I'm going to be humble with you, Gary, and say that I don't perhaps watch enough football. But yes, it's going to be very, very tough to equalize. It's going to be very, very tough to get the agreement that we need. But what we're trying to do is to get the world leaders to focus on the concrete, tangible... [00:02:02] Speaker 1: Exactly. And that's what I want to ask you about. You've now got to extract some final promises from people, from nations, and they're going to turn around and say, oh, we've got extenuating circumstances at home. Does it make it easier or harder that you've just encouraged people in a budget? Days before they all meet in Glasgow to get on planes? No, no, no. Because you've come on. 96%. You reduced air passenger duty and you didn't have to. Sorry, we increased air passenger duty for long haul. Yes. Price elasticity tells us more people will be going on planes as a [00:02:34] Gary: result of what you did. 96%. 96% of CO2 emissions come from long haul. It was a pretty odd thing to do. You expect to wrap it out of the hat, but not an asphyxiated one. What we were doing is ensuring that we have proper connectivity in the islands of the United Kingdom. There we go, special cleaning. But that's what they're all doing. That's what they're all doing. But what we're also doing is putting more tax on long haul. What an extraordinary time to do it. What that budget also does is help to put £26 billion into the green industrial revolution, which will enable us to produce clean, green power and enable us to have about... You didn't have to do it. Just about the punchiest reductions in CO2 of any major country. We're going to reduce our CO2 output by 68% on 1990 levels. That's the important thinking that we're doing as a result of that budget, all the measures that we're taking. [00:03:26] Speaker 1: You've been saying going green will be easy. You said that to the UN last month. But... What I'm saying is the technology is there. The Treasury is there. They don't even know what the costs are. And that's after you scrubbed up their report to make sure it wasn't too hostile to the whole idea. There are costs to this thing. Isn't it better to be honest about that? Yes, of course there are costs. But what you can do with green technology... [00:03:49] Gary: The Treasury is not sure you're going to get the money back. What you can do with green technology is produce hundreds of thousands of high-wage, high-skill jobs. And I think that is the point that people understand. And when I say that going green is easy or it's possible, look at what we have done. The UK has cut climate emissions, cut CO2 by 44% on 1990 levels. And yet our economy has grown by 78%. The point I made to our Chinese friends yesterday is that you can cut your reliance on coal and you can still grow your economy. And you can create, as I say, many, many hundreds of thousands of high-wage, high-skill jobs. So it's the technological progress, the technological advantages we have. By the way, the Romans didn't have. If you look back at ancient Rome, I said this one to you on the plane yesterday. If you look back at ancient Rome, surprisingly little technological progress was made in that huge sweep of Roman history before the Dark Ages. Thank you. Okay, Gary. Thank you. Thank you.