FULL DEBATE: Michigan Governor Race: Jocelyn Benson, John James go head-to-head

[0:22] After months on the campaign trail and millions spent, two candidates go head-to-head. [0:28] Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson. [0:31] We need a bold, uncompromising leader at the top from the governor's office. [0:34] Congressman John James. [0:36] We need a change. We need to get back to what works. [0:39] Tonight, these candidates square off face-to-face, showing exactly where they stand on the issues that will shape Michigan's future. [0:47] I wish people would quit, focus so much on data centers. [0:50] More places to live instead of building more buildings that we don't need. [0:53] How they gonna help everybody to lift up out of this funk that's going around in the state. [0:57] The cost of everything that I have to buy and how much we're all making. [1:01] The challenges are clear, the differences are real, and the choice belongs to you. [1:08] Live from the Wood TV studios in Grand Rapids and your local election headquarters, [1:14] this is night one of Debate Week in Michigan, the race for governor. [1:19] Good evening, I'm Rick Albin, your moderator for tonight's debate. [1:23] Candidates welcome and welcome to our viewers across the state watching here on Wood TV and our sister station, WLNS in Lansing, [1:30] and partners in Detroit, Marquette, Alpena, Traverse City, and Flint. [1:34] Here's a quick review of the rules. [1:36] Each question gets a 60-second answer in an order determined by a drawing. [1:40] We may give a 30-second follow-up or rebuttal. [1:43] Each candidate has a 60-second opening statement and 30-second closing statement. [1:47] Candidates welcome. It has been a long road. [1:51] You've been out there a long time, and we're now less than 30 days until Election Day. [1:56] People are already voting, and I want you to know that many of these questions you hear tonight [2:00] have been inspired by our viewers and voters across the state that sent in their suggestions. [2:06] We thank them for that. [2:07] We want to get started with the first things first, and those are the opening statements. [2:11] Congressman James, you won that drawing. [2:13] You will go first for 60 seconds. [2:15] Well, thank you, Rick. I hate politics, but I love Michigan, and it breaks my heart [2:21] that so many people are hurting in Michigan or leaving to find opportunity. [2:25] Many Democrats want to blame Trump, but Michigan is 42nd in infrastructure, [2:29] 43rd in economy, 45 in education, 46th overall. [2:33] That means 90% of this country is doing better than us, and we all have the same president. [2:37] Lansing is failing us, and it's going to not be fixed by somebody who's been a part of leadership [2:43] in Lansing for the past eight years. Now, she's going to use debunked lies to try to manipulate you [2:49] into believing, not believing your own eyes. But right now, your own eyes are telling you [2:54] that our costs are up, our wages are down, and Lansing is corrupt. We need a real tested leader [3:01] who's going to be focused on you, who has the skills to bring costs down, to win your wages up, [3:07] and to make sure that we end corruption in Lansing. I'm a combat vet and business leader [3:12] who knows what it takes to put politics behind us and people first. [3:17] Secretary Benson, you have 60 seconds. [3:19] I'm Jocelyn Benson, and the three pillars of our campaign are driving down costs, increasing our wages, [3:25] and ending corruption, because as governor, I will fight for you. I will fight for the veteran who deserves [3:30] access to the health care benefits they've earned, for the teachers who deserve better pay and more respect, [3:35] for our kids whose future depends on what we do today. I know how important that is as a mom, [3:41] as the wife of a combat veteran, and as the daughter of special education teachers who taught me [3:45] that the power of the people must always be greater than the people in power. [3:50] My opponent is only in this for himself. In just four years in Congress, he's become a multimillionaire [3:55] trading stocks in companies he's supposed to regulate, while raising our health care premiums, [3:59] supporting a reckless war in Iran that's driven up gas prices and backing Trump's tariffs, [4:03] that's raised costs on Michiganders more than any other state. He's not serving the people of [4:08] Michigan. He's profiting off of you. But I want you to know that even if it means sheltering in my [4:13] home, protecting my son, while people with guns protest on my front lawn because of lies my opponent [4:17] has spread, I will always fight for you. I've done that as Secretary of State, and I'm ready to do it as [4:22] governor. Thank you both. Let's get to our first question now. And this topic tonight [4:26] is about the trade battle between Canada and the United States and the impact specifically [4:32] on Michigan's economy. Secretary Benson, you have called the current tariffs a John James tax on [4:39] Michigan and said that as governor, you'll try to reduce the impact. But those tariffs are done [4:44] federally in Washington, not by Lansing. So name one specific thing you could do as governor that could [4:51] reduce federal tariffs. And you have 60 seconds. Well, yes, let me be very clear. These reckless [4:57] tariffs have been supported by my opponent. And that's why we call them the John James tax because [5:01] they are costing Michigan $5,600 each household more than any other state in the nation. And anyone [5:08] who's supposed to go to Washington to fight for us should be fighting to drive down those tariffs, [5:12] push back on those tariffs, but he has not. But I have a plan. On day one in office, I will call Canada [5:17] and negotiate a contract between Michigan and Canada to eliminate the tariffs and the costs in [5:22] Michigan. This is called a subnational agreement. It will enable us to ensure goods going between [5:26] Michigan and Canada and back and forth are protected from these tariffs from the John James tax that has [5:31] driven up costs and cost Michiganders jobs. Can I tell you, I was in Detroit the other day talking to [5:37] a business owner and he pointed to a swath of land and he said, if but for these tariffs, I would have money [5:41] to expand jobs, expand my company. But because I have to pay these tariffs, I cannot. That's why [5:47] these tariffs are costing us jobs, costing us money. And I have a plan to ensure we eliminate them here [5:52] in Michigan. Congressman James about these tariffs. President Trump says that on January 1st, he'll [5:57] impose more. Do you support the president's 50% tariff on Canadian automobiles and parts that would go [6:03] in place the first of the year? Give me a yes or no, if you could, and then explain, please. [6:07] Yes, slogans aren't going to save us, but solutions are. I'm an automotive industry experience and I [6:13] understand what it takes to create jobs. But under Jocelyn Benson's leadership in Lansing, [6:17] Michigan has lost 90,000 jobs in manufacturing and also business services. Right now, I've actually [6:23] never voted to increase tariffs on Canada, despite what she says. And I've actually called out the [6:30] administration specifically talking with the trade ambassador and saying that we must get back to [6:34] the table, stop acting like children and negotiate a reciprocal fair and mutually beneficial arrangement [6:40] to make sure that we can bring our jobs back and protect our industry. I've also said this in public [6:44] and her lies were actually called out on national television a number of weeks ago. Today, we dropped [6:50] a bill called the trade act to make sure that we protect our jobs and lower costs because I'm dedicated [6:56] to bringing solutions and doing things and not just pointing the fingers and complaining. Michigan has [7:00] lost too many jobs. We need a fair arrangement with our friends and allies in Canada. And this cannot be [7:05] borne on the backs of Michiganders. May I rebutt against that? I can give you 30 seconds. Thank you so [7:10] much. So in February of 2023, my opponent voted to give Trump the power to impose these taxes, [7:15] these tariffs on Michigan. And you can go to johnjamestax.com to see exactly how he supported [7:21] these tariffs and what we're going to do to protect Michiganders through an agreement with Canada [7:25] between our state and our friends in the north that will eliminate the burden these taxes, [7:30] these tariffs have placed on our state and ensure we have a exception here in Michigan to protect our [7:35] jobs, protect our wages and protect our costs. I want to follow up with you for 30 seconds and then [7:40] we'll put an end to this question. This is the reason why you don't elect somebody who doesn't [7:43] understand the automotive industry or the fact that the state doesn't have anything to do with [7:48] international agreements. Gretchen Whitmer signed one of these subnational agreements three years ago, [7:53] hasn't created a single job. The fact of the matter is there are six states that have higher [7:58] export percentages in Michigan. Five of them are run by Republican governors. Two of them are in the [8:03] top five overall and all of them are doing better. Each of the states we're looking to for guidance on [8:08] where we can be and what we can do economically are run by Republican governors and will absolutely [8:12] pass the trade act and give Michigan the resilience we need to excel. We're going to move on to the next [8:17] question though. I'm sure we're going to come back to this at some point. We're now going to turn [8:20] to state taxes where your plans are dramatically different. Congressman James, your economic plan [8:26] makes this promise. Quote, we are eliminating the state income tax, not someday, not maybe. [8:32] Your campaign says that you have identified more than $3 billion in government waste and that can help [8:39] pay for that reduction. How much would you cut the state income tax in your first budget and how many [8:44] years would it take to eliminate it entirely? You have 60 seconds. Well, we have to go at this [8:49] in a fair and balanced manner. Working with the House Oversight Committee and also order general [8:55] reports, we were able to figure out where to cut the pork. P, these are politicians' pet projects in [9:00] Lansing, $1.5 billion. I, you have improper payment and fraud. That's $0.85 billion. G, general funds that [9:08] are unspent, $0.65 billion. That's up to $3 billion that we can use to put more money back in your pockets [9:13] and spur and grow the economy, particularly helping with tax credits that will help employers upskill their [9:19] existing workers and target specific key blue collar work for targeted tax credits. These are [9:25] things that we put money back into people's pockets and that's just the start. If a state like [9:30] Minnesota can find $9 billion in fraud in a state that has 50% of our budget and 60% of our population, [9:37] how much more do you think we can find in a state that's spending $20 billion more today than they [9:42] spent when Gretchen Whitmer took over? There's plenty more to go and we will cut taxes without cutting vital [9:48] services. Before I get the initial question to the secretary, I want to get a clarity here. If [9:54] eliminating waste does not replace all of the lost revenue, is that a particular area in state [10:01] government that you would spend to help make up the difference for taxpayers? You have 30 seconds. [10:05] Well, see, this is the assumption. People are already paying way too many taxes and the government [10:09] is wasting your money. We need to go in there and bring value to what people are spending. And so this [10:14] is what you do to run a business. You can't just cut your way to success. You have to be able to grow [10:18] and you have to have a government that runs efficiently. Being a businessman myself, I [10:23] understand what it takes to run organizations efficiently. Thank you very much. Now, Secretary [10:29] Bitson, still staying on taxes. In one of your campaign ads, you said you would cut taxes for [10:34] working and middle-class families, not big corporations. Can you say which specific state tax you [10:41] would cut and how much that would save a Michigan family? You have 60 seconds. First, $5,600 per [10:48] household. That's how much the John James tax is costing the people of Michigan. And that's why on [10:54] day one, I will call Canada and negotiate a contract between Michigan and Canada to eliminate that tax on [11:01] our households and save us money. Number two, middle-class tax cuts are an important part of my agenda and will be [11:06] important part of my first budget. Included in those tax credits will be a $5,000 tax credit for long-term [11:13] care. Long-term caregivers who are paying a lot and suffering a lot under these current health care [11:17] premium increases, this will give them some relief. I'll also pass tax cuts for parents who are covering [11:23] child care. I believe child care costs need to go down if we're going to improve education and give [11:28] our kids a good start and support the hard-working parents who are supporting their kids. Those are the types [11:32] of middle-class tax cuts that you'll see in my first budget, but I'll start on day one by eliminating [11:37] the John James tax, which is costing Michigan households, according to Axios, more than any [11:42] other state in the nation. I want to do a quick follow with you on this because people at home are [11:47] hearing middle-class tax cut and they want to know if that's them. Where would a family no longer [11:53] qualify as middle-class under your plan? Well, I'll put it this way. Any family who is providing long-term care [11:59] for an aging loved one will qualify for a $5,000 tax credit to ease the challenges of providing that [12:06] long-term care. Any family who's covering a rising cost of child care will provide and find some tax [12:11] relief in my first budget. That's what it means to have a budget that stands with working families [12:15] and invest in their success. I want to move on to a subject that impacts everybody. I can only imagine [12:21] how it's impacted the two of you as you go all over the state. It's $5 a gallon gas, $0.52 of every gallon [12:29] that you buy is of a state gas tax. Secretary Benson, I'm going to begin with you, and I know [12:35] you've talked about this, but if elected, would you suspend the gas tax? 60 seconds. Yes, I'm open [12:42] to suspending the state gas tax, but I also think we need to be clear how we got here. It's because of [12:46] a reckless war in Iran that my opponent has voted six times to support and that is directly to blame [12:53] for the rising cost of gas and oil in this nation right now. That's why the federal government also has a [12:58] responsibility to play. My opponent could go, as I've asked him and others to do, to Washington tomorrow [13:03] and eliminate or put a holiday on the federal gas tax, which would also provide necessary relief [13:09] for Michigan families and families all across this nation. I know the costs have gone up more than any [13:14] other state on gas in Michigan, and that's why we need people at the federal level to take [13:20] responsibility for the mess they created and do something to reduce those costs. And then, yes, [13:24] I'm always open to finding any way to reduce costs as well here in Michigan, and I'm looking [13:29] forward to having those conversations with folks on both sides of the aisle in Lansing. [13:33] Congressman James, same question for you. If you're elected, would you support a temporary [13:37] pause in the gas tax here in the state? You have 60 seconds. [13:41] Yes. I have 52 cents off of a gallon. It would actually take us down into the threes. [13:46] And this is just another example. My opponent used a whole bunch of words and didn't say anything. [13:51] We know that I can't go back and call Congress into session. That's just foolish. But what I can do [13:56] is I can call for a gas tax holiday. What we can do is use the MEDC money to really put it back [14:04] toward the people. And a half billion dollars we used to fund it. And if we actually had a rainy day [14:08] fund that was sufficient, it wasn't blown in the past eight years, then we would have a better [14:12] ability to do that. You hear a lot about these little slogans here. But what she's not going to tell [14:17] you is median income, median household income in the state of Michigan is $9,000 less than the [14:24] median household income around the nation. And African-Americans in the state of Michigan [14:27] are $25,000 less than that. You want to talk about how failures in leadership are coming directly out [14:33] of your pocket. You can look at the failed energy policies, the failed household home building [14:38] policies, and the failed policies that are increasing the rates of gas and groceries. Yes, [14:42] we will support repealing, temporary suspending the gas tax. Thank you very much. I want to turn [14:47] to education. This, you may have 30 seconds. Thank you. I mean, I just think we have to take [14:51] responsibility for who's really in charge and the reason why we're here. You voted six times in [14:56] support of a war in Iran that has directly led to the increase in these gas prices. And you can, [15:01] as a member of Congress, demand that your leadership reconvene in Washington, D.C. and take [15:07] responsibility for this mess by eliminating the federal gas tax that is also costing families [15:13] right now. That's what real leadership would look like in this moment. And that's what I've called [15:16] on you to do. Yes. 30 seconds. I have called on both the suspension of the federal and the state gas [15:23] tax. And she knows this. Also, I struggle with that vote. I'm a combat veteran. I have been to war. [15:29] She has not. I understand what war means. And so I voted to protect the troops and to fund them while [15:35] they were in harm's way. But Iran must not have a nuke. And this is a regime that has funded the [15:42] Tehran, has funded Beirut in killing hundreds of Marines and have killed thousands of our countrymen. [15:48] They cannot have a nuke and they cannot allow extremists to continue to fund terror. [15:52] I want to move to education. We know that this is another issue that the next governor is going to [15:57] have to look at seriously. In a study from the 2025 Kids Count data book, Michigan was ranked 44th for K-12 [16:04] outcomes. Michigan's fourth grade reading performance remains near the bottom nationally. [16:10] Mississippi, by contrast, has posted major fourth grade reading gains and now surpasses Michigan. [16:15] Congressman James, and I know you've talked about this too, would you adopt parts of that [16:19] Mississippi literacy program in Michigan? Absolutely. You have 60 seconds. Yes, I was just with [16:24] Governor Reeves yesterday and today. And the policies that he's put in place, he said that [16:29] are exactly the ones that I have. We need to focus on phonics. We need to focus on the science of [16:35] reading. We need to focus on literacy. We need to prioritize common sense over crazy. We need to [16:40] make sure we're prioritizing educators over administrators. We need to focus on mastery for [16:45] our children so that they are able to read by the time they get into fourth grade. And we need to have [16:49] accountability for everyone in the system to make sure that they have the resources that they need [16:54] to be successful. And then we need to get the overhead out of the system. Fifty percent of all [17:00] the dollars that we are spending are not actually making to the classrooms. It's screwing over the [17:04] teachers, it's screwing over the kids, and we need to make sure we're holding people accountable for [17:07] those things. If we do that, then we're going to be able to move not just into literacy, but also into [17:12] numeracy and truancy. Count day is tomorrow. We need to make sure that we have everybody in their seats [17:17] because I want public schools to be successful. I want private home and charter schools to be successful [17:22] because a quality education is a basic civil right, and I will look out for it as governor. [17:26] Secretary Benson, same question. Would you adopt parts of that literacy plan for Mississippi? [17:31] You have 60 seconds. Well, yes, and more. First of all, I'm a mom and a military spouse, [17:36] and by the way, military spouses serve also, Congressman. I'm also the daughter of special [17:40] education teachers, and I think we have to be honest with how we got here. Three decades of defunding [17:45] our public schools here in Michigan higher than any other state in the nation. And who better to turn this [17:50] around with the sense of urgency that we need, but a former teacher, as I am, I'm ready to go further [17:56] than what they've done in Mississippi by implementing a five-pillar plan. You can read about all the [18:00] details of it at jocelynbenson.com. It includes a Michigan education guarantee that will ensure our [18:05] kids are college or career ready no matter what public school they graduate from. It'll include [18:10] better pay and more respect and wraparound services for our educators so that they get the professional [18:14] development support that they need to thrive. It'll redo our funding formula so that we're providing [18:19] the specific needs for every school district and invest in early childhood education because what [18:24] happens to our kids in age zero to six can set them up for success in kindergarten and beyond. [18:29] I'm ready as a former teacher, as the daughter of teachers, and as a mom to bring the urgency that [18:34] is needed to this issue and reform our public schools so that in the future we're talking about [18:38] the Michigan miracle, not the Mississippi one. I want to follow up with both of you. I'm going to start [18:43] with you, Congressman James, with a 30-second response. Would you support requiring a third [18:48] grader who can't demonstrate basic reading proficiency to repeat that grade? You have 30 seconds. [18:56] Our retention is absolutely on the table, and we have to make sure that we're doing it in a manner [19:01] that doesn't hurt or crush the spirit of the child. What they do in Mississippi is they have the testing, [19:06] the gating early that spring. They allow testing again early in the summer, and then they allow testing [19:11] again later in the summer. They also have different tutors that will be able to help with helping that [19:19] child to make sure that we're not getting to that position to begin with, and as governor, I will opt [19:23] into the education freedom tax credit that will allow parents additional resources to get tutoring for [19:27] the children as well. Is that a yes or no? Yes. Secretary Benson, would you support requiring a third [19:33] grader who cannot demonstrate basic reading proficiency to repeat that grade? You know, I grew [19:39] up in the back of my parents' classroom watching how hard they fought for their kids, and that's why [19:43] I believe that teachers should be the ones making those calls, making those decisions far more than [19:47] a politician or a governor should be. But at the same time, we need to be providing the support for [19:52] every school, for every parent, for every district, for every kid, for every teacher to ensure it never [19:56] gets to that point. And if it does, that we do come in with the wraparound support that our teachers, [20:00] our students, and our school districts need so that we ensure we're addressing that issue and [20:05] we're minimizing its ability to ever happen again. But I believe we need to respect teachers. We need [20:09] to respect the folks on the ground, respect the parents, and give them the support they need to [20:13] take care of our kids. Thank you both very much. Let's move on now to another issue where I think [20:17] your approaches are pretty different, and that is energy. Secretary Benson, you said you are, quote, [20:21] very proud of Michigan's requirement that utilities move toward 100% renewables by 2040. If Michigan [20:28] continues on that program toward 2040, and for that requirement, but electric rates continue to [20:35] increase, would you change or delay that in any way? You have 60 seconds. Well, you know, I live in [20:41] Detroit. Every month I see my electricity bills go up, and my outages increase as well. And this was [20:46] really brought home to me just the other day when my neighbor Gwen said, you know, I have cancer right [20:50] now, and every month I have to look at my bills and choose whether to pay for my chemotherapy or for my [20:55] electricity bill. So I know the next governor of Michigan must ensure we are ending profit-driven [21:00] rate hikes that have gotten us here where our electricity bills are going up, in some cases [21:04] more than many other states. And also invest in clean energy infrastructure because, frankly, [21:09] that is the only thing that will reduce our energy costs in the long term. So as governor, I will be [21:14] proud to ensure we're modernizing our electricity grid and investing in clean energy infrastructure [21:18] to drive down the cost of energy overall, create more energy independence, and bring Michigan into the future [21:23] so that our bills go down instead of up. Thank you very much. Congressman, your energy plan calls for [21:30] replacing Michigan's current clean energy requirements with an all-of-the-above solution [21:35] that would include natural gas, nuclear renewables, storage. If you repeal the current clean energy [21:42] mandate, would you also put a moratorium on renewable projects? You have 60 seconds. [21:47] They need to pencil. These things need to work out so that DTE and consumers aren't going back to the [21:55] utility regulators and asking for increases that you are paying for each and every single year. [22:02] The fact of the matter is Public Act 235 is forcing a mandate that we are not ready for. [22:09] We need to make sure we have an all-of-the-above approach where, yes, renewables, yes, natural gas, [22:14] yes, nuclear, all of the above, so that we can keep our prices low, so we can remain resilient. [22:20] But this needs to be economical as well as environmental as well. [22:24] I voted for the Ratepayer Protection Act to make sure that we keep our prices low all over the country [22:29] and especially in Michigan because Michigan has some of the highest utility bills in the entire Midwest, [22:34] double what they have in Ohio and 50 percent higher than they have in states like Missouri. [22:38] We can and we must repeal harmful regulations while also taking care of our environment [22:44] to make sure that Gwen can pay for all of the utilities and make it affordable as well. [22:49] Okay, this next subject, and I apologize to the guy in the open who said he wished we wouldn't talk about data centers. [22:56] We're going to talk about data centers. [22:58] It is an issue that is a not-in-my-backyard real-life event. [23:02] At commission meetings and town halls across the state, we've seen strong opposition to data centers, [23:07] and in this campaign, both of you have been called out in commercials about something about data centers, [23:13] you with your husband and the Saline data center benefiting financially, [23:18] and you from buying stock in data centers or companies connected with data centers. [23:22] I think when people see commercials during campaign season, they say, is that true? [23:27] So, Congressman James, I want to know if the ads about you are true and your position on data centers. [23:35] My position on data centers has been clear for months and months and months. [23:40] We must have local control. [23:43] Our electricity bills can't go up. [23:45] We need to protect our water, prevent pollution. [23:48] That includes air, land, water, and noise pollution. [23:51] And we need to prioritize our blighted brownfields over productive green farmland. [23:54] I was over at Saline just last week with people who are beside themselves that they were bulldozed by the powerful [24:02] and, frankly, bulldozed by people who knew better. [24:07] Yes, I have always advocated for energy and opportunity, but it has to be led by the locals and not led by Lansing. [24:16] These are types of things that are very important. [24:18] And, frankly, we need a governor who will respect the will of the people. [24:22] Secretary Benson has been tied in with these data centers and has not been forthcoming with the people. [24:29] I'm sure she's going to give her excuses now. [24:31] Well, we're going to get to that in just a minute. [24:32] But do you have stock in data centers and data center-related companies? [24:37] So when you consider having mutual funds and everything that's disclosed, then sure. [24:44] But to insinuate that somebody is on the take from anything is reckless. [24:51] And, frankly, it's wrong, especially when you consider the fact that her family has not disclosed all this information. [25:00] We have been extremely transparent. [25:01] We are in compliance with ethics. [25:03] And we've been forthcoming and abiding with the law. [25:06] Thank you, sir. [25:06] Secretary Benson, are the ads true? [25:08] And tell me about where you are on these. [25:11] Well, thank you for the opportunity to set the record straight here. [25:14] We have disclosed all our personal finances with the state, and that has reinforced the fact that my family has not profited from data centers. [25:21] It's a lie, and my opponent knows it. [25:23] I've called for a moratorium on any new data center developments until we have real guardrails in place to protect local control, protect our water, [25:30] require data centers to shoulder the burden of any energy usage, [25:34] and invest in community benefits agreements that will protect our communities. [25:38] In sharp contrast, my opponent has become a multi-millionaire buying stocks in data center companies that he regulates. [25:45] And he, not his spouse, he has voted to cut taxes on those very same companies. [25:52] And he, not his spouse, he has also voted four times to block the ability of local communities to have a voice or a say in whether data centers can come to those communities. [26:03] That record is clear and also, frankly, says everything we need to know about what side my opponent is really on. [26:12] Secretary Benson, another follow-up in this. [26:16] Oh, I'm sorry, I missed that. [26:17] Congressman James, please go ahead. [26:19] That's a massive mischaracterization of the fact that those things didn't pass. [26:24] I did not support it. [26:26] And I have been open and honest with everyone about the position. [26:30] Secretary Benson has been absolutely wrong on this, and she was for them before she was against them. [26:35] She's playing us, manipulating us, and smiling at the camera right now because she knows that she's dirty as sin on this, and she's throwing mud to make everybody else look worse. [26:44] The fact of the matter is that people know the truth, and they know that we will always support local control. [26:50] Congressman, have you or have you not become a multi-millionaire by buying stocks in the data center companies that you're charged with regulating? [26:57] No. [26:57] Have you or have you not voted to cut taxes on those same data center companies, and can't you admit that you voted four times? [27:05] To block the ability of local residents to have a say in whether data centers can come to their town. [27:10] Your record speaks for itself. [27:12] It's public for everyone to see, and, yes, you can go to johnjamestax.com to see more. [27:16] Yeah, you can twist any facts and data, but the fact of the matter is your running mate actually passed Public Act 233 that ramrods these data centers down people's throats. [27:24] And to answer your question, no, it was actually debunked in Bridge that said that the bulk of the money that has been made is because of successful business. [27:32] And frankly, having a governor who understands how to run successful business is an experience that you do not have as you would run this state economically into the ground. [27:42] As the CEO of one of our state's largest agencies, I'm actually very proud that we've been able to transform the Department of Motor Vehicles to become one of the most efficient and customer service-friendly agencies in the nation. [27:54] I'm also proud that we were able to transform that antiquated system in our office to eliminate wait times, provide better services for citizens. [28:03] And that shows exactly how I, as someone who's run not just one of our state's largest agencies, but an educational institution that I also turned around from being ranked fourth in the nation to number to in the top 50 nationwide. [28:14] I know how to run big institutions and, and, and fix broken systems, Senator Wilson, back to you. [28:19] You'll be happy to know that this question is about data centers too, or at least partially data center builders have long used non-disclosure agreements when they're discussing locating a facility in Michigan. [28:31] The Lowell Michigan proposal is an example. [28:34] Is there ever a legitimate reason for a public official to keep the details of a proposed data center confidential from the people who live nearby? [28:44] You have 30 seconds. [28:46] I believe transparency is our friend. [28:49] It's why I, as governor, will voluntarily comply with FOIA on day one, why I support the elimination of non-disclosure agreements when it comes to data centers coming to communities, [28:57] because we have to ensure our citizens are informed and engaged that their voices can be heard in every election at the local level on data centers and everywhere in between. [29:06] It's why I've committed my life to protecting democracy, protecting our elections, protecting people's voices, and transparency and requirements for transparency and accountability are critical to that. [29:16] Same question to you, Congressman. [29:17] Congressman, should a public official ever, is it ever legitimate, I guess is the question, for them to sign an NDA and keep the proposed data center confidential from people who would live nearby? [29:31] You have 30 seconds. [29:32] Protecting democracy, this is the woman who was slapped down by a judge for literally trying to manipulate a presidential ballot. [29:39] It has absolutely no excuse to retain information and keep it away from the people. [29:44] Her own running mate signed an NDA for what's going on in Saline, and there's countless other things and omissions that we don't know about. [29:51] I led this campaign with an ethics and transparency agenda because I understand how important it is to be ethical and transparent. [29:59] Yes, I know on the NDA. [30:00] No NDAs. [30:01] Okay, and what about a moratorium? [30:03] I didn't hear, are you in favor of a moratorium? [30:05] My moratorium is local-led, not Lansing-led, so yes, a moratorium on data centers. [30:10] No new data centers until we have a plan to protect our communities. [30:12] Well, I wish I had more data center questions, but we've got to take a break. [30:16] It's a short break, and when we return, we're going to be talking about public safety and immigration. [30:22] But first, here's a reminder. [30:23] Candidates enter the spin room once our debate concludes. [30:27] This QR code will take you to our live post-debate coverage, and we'll be back in 70 seconds. [31:56] It's debate week in Michigan. [31:57] I'm Rick Alban, your moderator for tonight's debate, or sometimes just the guy that sits and listens. [32:01] I want to move on to the rest of our questions, because there's a lot packed in here. [32:07] Secretary Benson, at an education forum, you said that you would use every tool in your toolbox to prevent federal immigration authorities from entering Michigan schools. [32:18] Give me a scenario. [32:19] Say if federal agents have a warrant for a felon, a violent felon, that's in a school. [32:25] Would you stop those agents from going into that school, yes or no, and explain why? [32:29] Well, yeah, certainly protecting the safety of our kids as a mom is critical to me, and of our teachers and of everyone in school. [32:36] So certainly there's going to be times where there's evidence of a clear and present danger in a school, and we have to allow that to happen. [32:42] But that's actually not what I was talking about in that moment, but what we see often happening in schools today. [32:47] What we're seeing from this president is a use and abuse of federal authority to terrorize communities, oftentimes with no evidence of wrongdoing. [32:54] And I know, particularly as a mom of a 10-year-old little boy, spends a lot of time with thinking about the future of our state, the way that that can traumatize a kid and really harm the fabric of a school, which are supposed to be safe places for all of our kids, is something that you can't take away. [33:11] And so as governor, I'll be always unafraid to stand up to anyone, anytime, anywhere, who would harm the safety of our communities, harm the safety of our kids, and I will always demand that we protect our kids, protect our schools from the abuse or use or overuse of federal authority. [33:26] 30-second follow-up before I move to you, Congressman James. [33:29] This is for you, Secretary. [33:30] ICE has been controversial across the country. [33:33] If you're elected governor, what is your approach for working with that federal agency? [33:38] You have 30 seconds. [33:39] It all gets down to what does the law say, what does the Constitution require, and ensuring that we don't have masked federal agents coming to our communities, murdering innocent civilians, which has actually happened in other states, and that as governor, you have to be prepared to take on. [33:53] And that's why I, as Secretary of State, have been proud to stand up to the President of the United States when he has used and abused and overused federal authority, broken the law, ignored the Constitution. [34:04] And the job of a governor in this moment is to have the moral courage to do just that, enforce the law, protect our Constitution, protect our kids, and be unafraid to stand up to even the President of the United States if he would violate those principles. [34:15] Congressman, with public safety and immigration being the topic right now, one of your campaign ads says, Michigan will have safe streets on my watch. [34:25] I don't care who I have to lock up to make that happen. [34:27] And then you go on to promise to get rid of politicians and liberal judges who put violent criminals back on the streets. [34:35] What exactly do you mean when you say you'll get rid of liberal judges? [34:40] We're going to use checks and balances to make sure that people who are making communities less safe are held accountable by the people. [34:48] The judges, activists on the bench, prosecutors, DAs that are continuing to allow people back on the streets to terrorize our families should be held accountable by the people. [34:59] And everyone will know the exact people who are holding them and making them less safe. [35:05] We also need to make sure that we have community policing. [35:08] We also need to make sure that we reduce recidivism by having increased economic opportunities for people who are returning citizens who have paid their debt to society and want to rejoin and be great members of society. [35:20] At my business, some of our best employees are returning citizens. [35:23] And we need to make sure that we're doing everything we possibly can to have people who are paying their debt to society be able to reintegrate and so they do not reoffend. [35:33] We need to make sure we're holding activists, judges, DAs, and prosecutors accountable for making our communities less safe. [35:37] And we absolutely need to support our police. [35:39] I have a follow-up for you, the same one for the secretary, and that is ICE has obviously generated a lot of controversy in this country. [35:48] If you were elected, what would your approach be to working with that federal agency 30 seconds? [35:53] We're going to be cooperating with federal law enforcement as well as our communities. [35:57] We're going to make sure that we're prioritizing violent offenders, and we're going to make sure that we enforce the law. [36:04] Frankly, I don't believe we're going to need ICE presence in the state of Michigan because we are going to be enforcing the law. [36:10] So, again, prioritizing violent offenders, working and abiding by federal law, and coordinating closely with our communities. [36:17] Well, I think the question needs to be, what if you disagree with the president and he wants to send in federal agents to harm our communities, [36:23] when you as congressmen have never once, not once, stood up to the president and said, not on our watch. [36:29] I, as governor, will be proud to protect our communities and work with anyone to get that done, [36:33] but what we need in the next governor is someone who has the backbone and the moral courage to stand up to the president of the United States, [36:39] and you have been in Congress for four years and have never done that once. [36:42] How can we trust you as governor to do that if ICE were to come and terrorize our communities? [36:46] Congressman James. [36:48] Well, I've stood up to the president many times. [36:49] I've said that I can agree with the president without worshiping him. [36:51] I can disagree without attacking him, and I always put Michigan first. [36:54] I said that as early as 2017, but she doesn't want you to know that. [36:57] I've also stood up to the president when he said things that were salacious and untrue, [37:01] and I've stood up to him recently in his administration with regard to tariffs, [37:04] and I said this war in Iran needs to end quickly, as in yesterday. [37:08] The fact of the matter is she is holding me to a double standard when she has never, not once, [37:13] stood up to Gretchen Whitmer before she needed a campaign issue. [37:16] Let's talk about COVID. [37:17] Let's talk about the fact that she let Gretchen Whitmer off the hook after that and some of the campaign issues. [37:22] I'd love to talk about 2020, and I don't know where you were or when you needed. [37:26] Let's do that. [37:27] We need to move on. [37:28] Let's do that. [37:29] Moving on, Michigan's next governor could face a multibillion-dollar Medicaid funding shortfall [37:34] because of changes in federal law. [37:36] Congressman James, you said rising Medicaid costs are partly attributable to fraud, [37:42] but that's not going to be enough to make up the shortfall. [37:44] So what would you do to keep that solvent? [37:47] Would you choose an option, raise new state revenue, or cut spending somewhere else in the budget? [37:52] You have 60 seconds. [37:53] Well, the first thing is I made sure that Medicaid spending is increasing every year over the next five years. [38:01] I also made sure that pregnant women up to 12 months after, people who were frail or sick are elderly, [38:08] people before 19 and people after 64, this does not apply. [38:13] I also made sure that if people in areas that are hardship, that there will be exemptions. [38:18] As governor, if there's an area that has a hardship, I would apply for that exemption. [38:23] But ultimately, Medicaid is extremely important to the state of Michigan. [38:27] We must make sure that we protect it for the people it was designed for [38:30] and prevent people who would steal from the system from benefiting from that. [38:36] We would also need to make sure that we're continuing to grow our economy [38:39] and make sure that we're continuing to leverage all of our resources [38:43] from the $75 billion budget that we have [38:46] to make sure that we're taking care of the people who absolutely need Medicaid. [38:49] Secretary Benson, if the federal funding is not there for Medicaid, [38:53] again, I'll give you the same choices. [38:55] Do you raise revenues or do you cut spending somewhere else? [38:58] You have 60 seconds. [38:59] Well, I think health care, Rick, is the defining issue in this campaign. [39:03] Just a few months ago, I was in Traverse City, [39:05] and a mom shared with me that she doesn't have enough money [39:07] to afford the rising premiums for her whole family of six. [39:10] So she has to choose to only cover her kids for health care [39:13] and go without health care coverage herself. [39:16] She is faced with that impossible choice because of my opponent, [39:20] because he went to Washington and voted three times [39:23] to increase health care premiums and vote for legislation [39:26] that kicked hundreds of thousands of Michiganders [39:28] off of their health care. [39:30] As governor, I have a plan to fix this. [39:32] I will work to ensure our Department of Health and Human Services [39:35] is streamlined to make it as easy as possible for people to stay [39:38] on the benefits they're entitled to under the law, [39:41] establish a prescription drug affordability board [39:43] to lower medicine costs, [39:45] and work to appeal unfair insurance denials [39:48] so that people can get the coverage they need [39:50] and not see medical debt rise. [39:52] But we have to be clear, we are in this position [39:55] because of failures at the federal level for my opponent [39:58] to support efforts to fund health care [40:00] and instead voting multiple times to raise health care premiums [40:03] on the people of Michigan. [40:04] I'll give you 30 seconds. [40:04] Rick, she's lying. [40:05] These things haven't even gone into effect yet, [40:07] and she knows it. [40:08] And I just said that where there are exceptions that are required, [40:10] I will apply for the exception. [40:13] She's using numbers and not telling where she got them from [40:16] because she's peddling on fear. [40:19] The fact of the matter is Medicaid will not be taken away [40:22] from people who are working at least 80 hours. [40:25] Medicaid is not going to be taken away from caregivers [40:28] and people who need it. [40:29] Medicaid is vital. [40:30] Medicaid will be protected. [40:32] My very first bill in Congress [40:34] is actually protecting Medicare and Social Security. [40:35] I understand how important this is, [40:37] and I will continue to support that as Governor. [40:38] Congressman, the big, beautiful bill [40:40] that you voted in support of [40:41] is designed to make it harder for people to stay on Medicaid [40:46] and get the health care coverage that they're entitled to. [40:49] The job of the next governor is going to be to ensure [40:51] that despite those bills that you voted for, [40:54] despite the fact that you voted not once, not twice, [40:56] but three times to raise health care costs [40:58] on the people of Michigan, [40:59] the next governor, as I will do, [41:01] will ensure that the Health and Human Services [41:02] is on the side of the people, [41:04] making it as seamless as possible [41:06] for people to stay covered [41:07] despite all the changes that you have supported [41:09] at the federal level [41:10] that's going to make it harder [41:11] for them to get the coverage they need. [41:13] Kenneth, I would love to say on this, [41:14] and we can stay another hour if you want to, [41:16] but we've got other things we need to move to. [41:19] Let's talk a little bit about a controversy [41:21] that kind of came out of nowhere, [41:23] at least for me, and it's flock cameras. [41:25] These cameras that are being put up all over the place [41:28] and in community after community, [41:30] conversations are being held [41:32] to determine how, why, [41:35] and if these devices should be used. [41:38] So my question, Secretary Benson, [41:40] is should the state put guardrails on these things, [41:45] or is that a local issue? [41:47] It's 60 seconds for you. [41:48] Yes, the state should put guardrails [41:50] on the use and abuse of any technology [41:52] that would harm the privacy of our residents, [41:54] especially in a situation like this [41:55] where so many local communities have raised concerns, [41:58] and we've even begun to see the potential abuse [42:00] of this data by local communities. [42:02] But that's also why it's important [42:03] to preserve local control [42:05] in making those decisions. [42:06] As well, as governor, [42:07] I will be a partner to local communities [42:08] to ensure we're protecting the privacy of our residents, [42:11] that we're eliminating the potential [42:13] for abuse of any type of technology. [42:16] As Secretary of State, [42:17] I've had to do this when it comes to technology [42:19] and AI in our elections. [42:20] Under my leadership, [42:21] we became one of the first states in the nation [42:23] to enact guardrails over the use of AI in our elections. [42:26] That's the same type of leadership [42:28] I'll bring to the governor's office. [42:29] And again, it's in sharp contrast to my opponent, [42:31] who has voted four times [42:32] to block local communities [42:33] from having any say in technology like this. [42:36] In issues like flock cameras, [42:38] this only underscores the importance [42:39] of protecting those local controls [42:41] and the critical role that states have to play [42:43] in providing those guardrails as well. [42:45] Congressman, should the state provide some guardrails [42:47] or is it a local issue? [42:48] 60 seconds. [42:49] Maybe I should just start throwing out random numbers, Rick. [42:52] But okay, here's a random number [42:54] that's extremely important. [42:57] A non-random number is extremely important. [42:59] Our Fourth Amendment is non-negotiable. [43:02] The right to privacy is a constitutional right [43:05] and I will protect that as governor. [43:07] Yes, we need to make sure that our communities are safe. [43:09] We will protect local control, [43:10] but we absolutely must protect our constitutional rights. [43:13] I swear an oath to the Constitution [43:15] and I'm duty-bound to make sure [43:16] that I do that as the next governor. [43:19] All right, we're going to move on to another subject [43:21] that is, well, it's somewhat tied to earlier [43:23] when we were talking about the gas tax. [43:26] And if that gas tax should be paused, [43:29] it's obviously going to have an impact on road funds. [43:32] And that's been a mantra for this previous [43:35] or the current administration for eight years, [43:37] fixing the roads. [43:39] But it has also been suggested [43:41] that the tax on marijuana that was designed [43:44] to help pay for part of that road work [43:46] should also be eliminated. [43:48] So my question is starting with you, Congressman James. [43:52] Is cutting the marijuana tax a good idea? [43:54] And if it is, how do we keep paying [43:57] to fix local roads? [43:58] You have 60 seconds. [43:59] Well, of course, we shouldn't be targeting businesses. [44:02] Frankly, I don't like targeting any business, [44:05] and we need to look at the ways [44:07] that we can cut taxes across the board. [44:09] We also need to take a look at the way roads are funded, [44:12] looking at the reforms for Public Act 51 [44:15] that was put in place in 1951. [44:18] We need to make sure that we're funding our roads [44:21] and coming up with how we fix them more adequately. [44:25] We also need to make sure that EVs [44:27] are paying their fair share [44:28] because they're not even paying the gas tax at all. [44:30] We need to make sure that some of these heavier cars [44:32] are shouldering some of the burden. [44:34] Yes, I'm a proponent of cutting taxes [44:36] without cutting vital services, [44:38] and we have funds left over, [44:40] $500 million, I believe, MEDC, [44:43] for temporary suspension of the gas tax [44:47] that give people relief as they go into the holiday season. [44:49] But yes, when we have time to look back under the hood, [44:52] we will take a look at this $75 billion budget, [44:54] effectively over $80 billion, [44:56] and we will find more money to bring value [44:59] to the people of the state of Michigan [44:59] because we're already paying too many taxes. [45:01] Senator Benson, is cutting the marijuana tax a good idea? [45:09] 60 seconds. [45:10] Well, look, our tax code in Michigan [45:12] is filled with loopholes for the wealthy and well-connected. [45:14] For example, we all pay this gas tax we've talked about, [45:17] but do you know if you own a private plane, [45:18] you don't have to pay a tax on that fuel? [45:20] So the next governor needs to, as I will do, [45:22] do a wholesale review [45:23] of how we're generating revenue into the state [45:24] to ensure we're modernizing our tax code [45:26] and eliminating a lot of these loopholes. [45:29] And it really underscores why you need a governor [45:30] who's going to be data-driven, as I am, [45:32] solution-oriented, as I am, [45:34] but also not committed to doing the bidding [45:37] of corporations or any one entity. [45:39] My opponent has taken hundreds of thousands of dollars [45:42] in corporate PAC money from pharmaceutical companies, [45:44] for example, and then turned around [45:46] and cut their taxes 40%, [45:47] giving them a $50 billion tax break. [45:50] That type of leadership shows [45:51] that that's not the right leadership [45:52] we need here in Michigan [45:54] that we'll be required to, [45:55] as I will do as governor, [45:56] look at our entire tax code [45:58] through the lens of what is best for the people, [46:00] what is best for the middle class. [46:01] Yes, we need to do more with less [46:03] and cut our budget, [46:04] as I've done as Secretary of State in my own agency. [46:06] But by cutting wasteful spending, [46:08] we'll also review how we raise revenue in the state [46:10] to ensure we are doing everything we can [46:12] to save taxpayer dollars. [46:15] Your husband made as much of that [46:16] in his personal income last year. [46:18] You left that omitted in 2025. [46:20] You've also made millions of dollars [46:22] going out to California, [46:23] dragging that money back here [46:24] to throw lies up on air about me and my record [46:27] because you don't have one of your own. [46:29] Frankly, if you want to talk about somebody [46:30] who's been bought, [46:31] is somebody right now [46:32] who's spending tens of millions of dollars right now [46:34] to cover over her terrible record [46:36] and the fact that her family bulldozed Celine. [46:39] Go and take a look at it. [46:40] Take a look at her record. [46:41] The fact of the matter [46:42] is she has been bought and sold [46:44] by the California elite. [46:45] She is not from here. [46:47] She does not care about here. [46:48] And you see it in everything [46:49] that she has failed to do [46:50] over the past eight years. [46:53] There were a lot of things [46:54] packed up in both of those statements. [46:56] I'm going to give you 15 seconds. [46:57] I'm going to give you 15 seconds [46:59] and then we're going to move on. [47:00] Yeah, all my personal finances [47:01] have been disclosed. [47:02] My family's personal finances [47:04] have been disclosed. [47:05] And you can go to [47:06] the personal financial disclosure portal [47:07] at michigan.gov slash SOS [47:09] to see exactly that. [47:11] Is it working now? [47:12] Yes, it is. [47:12] It's always been working, actually. [47:14] But in addition to that, [47:15] my opponent has actually been fined [47:16] for not disclosing things. [47:17] And you still haven't answered, [47:19] Congressman, [47:19] why you took $300,000 [47:20] in corporate PAC money [47:21] from pharmaceutical companies [47:22] and turned around [47:23] and cut their taxes. [47:24] I haven't taken personal money [47:26] from these pharmaceutical companies. [47:28] That's ridiculous. [47:29] Frankly, I believe very strongly [47:30] my patients deserve price tags [47:32] that will increase transparency [47:33] and lower costs for everyone [47:35] so that we don't keep shoveling [47:37] Michigan taxpayer dollars [47:38] at rich hospitals [47:39] and insurance companies [47:40] at the people's expense. [47:41] Let's move on to another subject [47:43] that is really important [47:44] to a lot of people, [47:44] and that's affordable housing. [47:46] We know affordable housing [47:47] is hard to find. [47:48] There are a lot of reasons for that, [47:50] but one of them could be [47:51] that the state regulations [47:53] add sometimes as much [47:54] as 25% to the cost of a new home. [47:57] So, Secretary Benson, [47:59] as governor, [48:00] would you be willing [48:00] to get rid of [48:02] or reduce the regulations [48:04] that make those houses cost more? [48:06] You have 60 seconds. [48:08] Yes, I mean, [48:08] it's not lost on me [48:09] that it can cost over $100,000 [48:11] to build a home in Michigan [48:12] before you even put a brick in the ground. [48:13] And so we absolutely need [48:15] to streamline how housing is built. [48:16] That's why my plan [48:17] for affordable housing [48:18] has three pieces to it. [48:20] Streamlining how homes are built, [48:21] eliminating a lot of those construction [48:23] obstructions that stand in the way, [48:25] also providing support [48:26] for first and second time homeowners [48:28] and nurses and teachers [48:29] and farmers and others [48:30] who are moving to these communities [48:31] and need an affordable place to live. [48:33] But we'll also hold accountable [48:34] the bad actors [48:35] that are buying up properties [48:36] and jacking up rents [48:37] and other prices [48:38] that makes oftentimes housing unaffordable. [48:40] And, and we have to recognize [48:42] because I was in Muskegon [48:43] just the other day [48:44] talking to someone [48:45] I'm trying to get [48:45] to bring jobs to Muskegon. [48:47] And I said, [48:47] what's it going to take [48:48] to bring your company to Muskegon? [48:50] And he said, [48:51] all I need is affordable housing. [48:52] So I met with an affordable housing developer [48:54] in Muskegon and I said, [48:55] what's it going to take [48:56] for you to build more homes? [48:57] And he said, [48:58] these tariffs with Canada [49:00] are driving up the cost [49:01] of every supply, [49:02] lumber, copper, everything else [49:04] and created uncertainty. [49:05] We have to do away with these tariffs [49:06] to build more affordable housing [49:08] in Michigan. [49:09] My opponent supports these tariffs. [49:10] I will do away with them. [49:11] Congressman, same question. [49:13] As governor, [49:13] would you look at these regulations [49:16] that cost extra money [49:17] to home builders [49:18] and consequently to those of us [49:20] who buy those homes [49:21] and try to make housing more affordable? [49:23] You have 60 seconds. [49:25] I literally have a bill [49:26] that's going to protect our supply chain, [49:28] protect our job and lower costs. [49:29] And all she's doing is talking. [49:31] She hasn't had the opportunity [49:33] to develop the skillset [49:34] to understand what it takes [49:35] to develop this state. [49:37] Frankly, she says that Whitmer [49:39] is a great policymaker [49:40] when literally the fact [49:42] that we have more expensive housing [49:44] and rent in the state of Michigan [49:45] is because of the terrible prices [49:47] that make it more expensive [49:48] to build a house here [49:50] before it put the shovel in the ground, [49:52] over $100,000. [49:53] I have actually worked [49:55] on a path to affordable housing. [49:57] That is what we're doing, [49:58] moving that through the house [49:59] and also rolling back harmful regulations [50:02] that make it more difficult. [50:04] We also need to increase [50:06] our workforce development. [50:07] We need to make sure [50:08] that we're getting more labor [50:09] to the front. [50:10] We need to reform our laws [50:12] that make it more difficult [50:13] to grow opportunity in jobs [50:15] and have everybody to assess them. [50:16] These are the types of things [50:17] that leadership bring [50:18] and a governor will bring [50:19] to make sure that everybody [50:20] can experience prosperity [50:21] as well as better housing prices. [50:25] All right, Congressman James, [50:27] this goes first to you [50:28] for 60 seconds [50:29] from tornadoes to ice storms [50:32] to dams failing to flooding [50:33] and a polar vortex. [50:35] Michigan has seen [50:36] what feels like an abundance [50:37] of natural disasters [50:38] in the last few years. [50:39] As governor, [50:40] what would you do [50:41] to help prepare the state [50:43] for the aftermath of such events? [50:45] You have 60 seconds. [50:46] We absolutely need to make sure [50:48] that we are getting away [50:49] from Public Act 235, [50:51] which is siphoning money [50:52] away from the people. [50:53] And you have these massive [50:56] utility companies [50:57] that are spending billions of dollars [51:00] at the expense of the people, [51:02] and they should be putting [51:03] that into distribution. [51:04] 50% of every dollar [51:06] is spent on distribution, [51:07] and we need to make sure [51:08] that we're making [51:09] that more resilient. [51:10] We also need to cooperate [51:11] with our friends in Canada. [51:12] When you look at these ice storms, [51:14] they cause a lot of dry tender [51:15] up in the northern areas, [51:16] and that's just ripe [51:17] for forest fires. [51:18] We also need to make sure [51:19] that we're investing [51:20] in our underground infrastructure. [51:22] Being in southeast Michigan, [51:23] I've gotten millions of dollars [51:25] for underground infrastructure [51:26] already delivering [51:27] for the people [51:27] of the state of Michigan [51:28] so that when we have these floods, [51:30] you don't have highways flooded out [51:32] and people's basements flooded out. [51:34] These are the types of things [51:35] that we can make sure [51:36] that we're increasing [51:37] the resilience [51:38] of the state of Michigan [51:38] and things that I've already delivered on, [51:40] and I will continue [51:41] to deliver on as governor. [51:42] Secretary Benson, same question. [51:44] We've had all these natural disasters, [51:46] and it feels like [51:48] we need to do something, [51:49] or I'll put it another way. [51:50] Should we be doing more [51:52] to be prepared? [51:52] Governor, do you have 60 seconds? [51:54] Yeah, I think it's very clear [51:55] that the natural disasters [51:56] you mentioned [51:57] are a directly result [51:58] of climate change, [51:59] and Michigan has an opportunity [52:01] to lead on that area. [52:03] As governor, [52:03] I want to grow the area [52:04] of our economy [52:05] that's investing in clean energy jobs [52:07] and climate technology. [52:09] That will not only create [52:10] more well-paying jobs [52:11] here in Michigan [52:11] and invest in a growing economy, [52:14] it'll also put Michigan [52:15] in a leadership position [52:16] to be solving these problems [52:18] for the globe. [52:19] And isn't that who we are in Michigan? [52:20] We solve these problems [52:21] and we lead the nation, [52:23] we lead the globe. [52:23] This is our opportunity in Michigan, [52:25] and I will invest [52:26] in these opportunities as governor [52:27] to grow our clean energy [52:28] and climate tech economy [52:30] so that we're creating jobs [52:32] and we're partnering [52:32] with our research universities [52:34] as well to be preventative [52:35] as well as solution-oriented [52:37] in addressing climate change [52:38] and what happens from it. [52:39] I've also released a plan [52:41] for improving our environment [52:42] and taking on polluters [52:44] and others that are driving up costs. [52:45] Folks can go to jocelynbenson.com [52:47] to see my entire plan [52:48] for improving our environment, [52:50] addressing climate change [52:51] and taking on these disasters [52:53] before they occur. [52:54] Candidates, I have to ask you [52:55] to stay with the Times [52:55] on this next question. [52:57] We are at the end of the debate [52:58] and we want to get [52:59] to the closing statements, [53:00] so here we go. [53:02] Secretary Benson, [53:03] after winning the Democratic nomination, [53:05] you said, quote, [53:05] Michigan deserves a governor [53:07] who answers to the people, [53:09] not corporations. [53:10] We're talking about [53:11] who do you work for. [53:12] Name one significant policy [53:14] or decision by Governor Whitmer [53:16] where you believe [53:17] she didn't listen to the people. [53:19] You have 60 seconds. [53:20] Well, you know, [53:21] Governor Whitmer's a policymaker. [53:22] I'm an administrator [53:23] and where I think [53:24] we need to listen to the people [53:25] is a way to improve [53:26] our Department of Health [53:27] and Human Services, [53:28] much like I've done [53:28] at the Department of State, [53:29] to streamline access to health care [53:31] and make it as easy as possible [53:32] for people to get access to health care [53:34] so that it's affordable [53:35] and accessible to all. [53:37] We also need to invest [53:38] in mental health care, [53:39] both through that agency. [53:40] I know every community I go to, [53:41] I hear about the need [53:42] to ensure mental health care [53:44] is provided [53:44] and one thing I will do [53:45] with our Department of Health [53:46] and Human Services [53:47] is ensure as an administrator [53:48] that we're providing that support [53:50] while also taking on [53:51] the pharmaceutical companies [53:52] that are driving up our costs, [53:54] establishing a prescription [53:55] drug affordability board [53:56] that will drive down [53:57] the cost of medicine [53:57] and empowering the Department [53:59] of Health and Human Services [54:00] to take on insurance companies [54:02] that are wrongly denying claims [54:03] so that we can stand [54:04] with the people of Michigan [54:05] so that they're not [54:06] incurring medical debt. [54:08] Thank you very much, [54:09] Congressman James. [54:09] When you launched [54:10] your campaign for governor, [54:11] you said this, [54:13] President Trump and I [54:14] have been in each other's corner [54:15] through thick and thin [54:16] for eight years. [54:17] There will inevitably be times [54:20] when the interests of Michigan [54:21] and the priorities [54:22] of the White House [54:23] don't align. [54:24] Name one significant policy [54:26] President Trump supports [54:27] that you oppose [54:28] and that you think is wrong [54:30] for Michigan. [54:30] 60 seconds, please. [54:32] I said that the war in Iran [54:33] needs to be over yesterday. [54:34] Yes, I applaud the administration [54:36] for using every economic [54:38] and every diplomatic resource [54:41] at their disposal. [54:42] Iran cannot have a nuke, [54:44] but we need to wrap this thing up [54:45] like yesterday. [54:46] As somebody who's been to war [54:48] and actually been shot at, [54:49] I understand the toll [54:51] and the price of war. [54:53] We need to make sure [54:54] that we're ending war. [54:55] I hate war, [54:56] and I would work with the president, [54:58] of course, to do what we can [55:00] to make sure that we end that, [55:02] not waiting until I'm governor, [55:03] but making sure we're continuing [55:05] to learn more [55:06] and use whatever checks [55:08] and balance power that we have [55:09] to bring this war [55:11] to a swift conclusion. [55:13] Okay. [55:14] First of all, [55:15] thank you for standing here [55:16] for an hour [55:16] and answering some [55:18] really tough questions. [55:20] Some of these might be tough, too, [55:22] but they're 30 seconds. [55:23] Congressman James, [55:24] what is your favorite [55:25] vacation spot in Michigan? [55:27] Oh, wow. [55:28] I'm not going to tell you that [55:29] because everybody will go. [55:30] Well, actually, [55:31] my favorite spot [55:32] is actually at home. [55:33] I don't get to see my kids enough, [55:36] and so wherever they are, [55:37] but Glen Arbor's pretty cool, too. [55:41] I'm a youper. [55:42] I love Marquette. [55:43] It's my favorite place to run. [55:45] I have family there. [55:45] My husband's mom was raised there. [55:47] I think Marquette [55:48] and everywhere in the Upper Peninsula [55:49] is one of the best-cast secrets [55:51] of our state, [55:52] and I'm a Lake Superior girl. [55:53] Got engaged on Isle Royale, [55:55] so I love that part of the state, [55:57] but obviously, [55:58] every part of our state is beautiful. [55:59] Good. [56:00] You got a chance [56:00] to decompress there a little bit. [56:01] Thank you both. [56:02] We've come to the end [56:03] of this program, [56:04] and I thank you for being here. [56:05] Each one of you [56:06] will have 30 seconds [56:07] to wrap up our debate, [56:09] beginning with you, [56:09] Congressman James, 30 seconds. [56:11] Oh, thank you. [56:12] Well, I appreciate your time [56:13] and participating [56:14] because this is not [56:16] a spectator sport. [56:17] It's up to you. [56:18] Michigan needs change. [56:19] I'm a combat veteran [56:21] who understands what it takes [56:22] to bring people together [56:23] to accomplish tough [56:24] and dangerous missions. [56:25] I don't care [56:26] what political party you're from. [56:27] I will always serve you. [56:28] I'm a business leader [56:29] who understands what it takes [56:30] to actually create jobs [56:32] and actually grow our economy, [56:33] and I recognize [56:34] that economic development [56:35] is not about brick and mortar. [56:36] It's about flesh and blood. [56:37] It's about you. [56:38] I'm a congressman [56:39] who's worked with everybody [56:40] across the aisle to deliver, [56:41] and I'll continue to deliver [56:42] as your governor. [56:43] Secretary Benson, 30 seconds, please. [56:45] Well, the choice in this race [56:46] is simple. [56:47] Who do you want [56:47] the next governor to work for? [56:49] I will work for you, [56:50] and my opponent [56:50] has already showed us [56:51] that he won't [56:52] because as governor, [56:53] he'll do exactly [56:54] what he did in Congress. [56:55] Raise your prices, get rich, [56:56] and do everything [56:57] Donald Trump asks him to do. [56:59] So if you like gas [57:00] pushing $5 a gallon [57:01] or mortgage rates over 7% [57:02] or tariffs taxing [57:04] just about everything we pay for, [57:05] then John James is your guy. [57:07] But if you're like me [57:08] and believe we can drive down costs [57:09] in the state of Michigan, [57:10] grow our economy, [57:11] raise wages, [57:12] and end corruption, [57:13] then I ask for your vote [57:14] and your support [57:14] so we can make Michigan [57:15] the best place in the nation [57:16] to call home. [57:17] Candidates, thank you very much [57:18] for being here [57:19] and thanks to everybody [57:20] who's watching, [57:21] to our broadcast partners. [57:23] And don't forget, [57:24] both candidates [57:25] will be going into the spin room [57:26] with post-debate reaction. [57:28] You can view that [57:28] by scanning the QR code [57:30] on your screen. [57:32] Again, thank you for being here [57:33] and thank you very much [57:34] for a very entertaining hour. [57:36] Good night from Grand Rapids.