Full Coverage: Joint Opposition Press Conference Today

[0:00] good morning and i would like to take this opportunity to welcome all of you to today's [0:04] press conference um we are of course going to be having a joint press conference as is [0:11] visible at this time i would like to take this opportunity to give an excuse for the leader [0:18] of the opposition who is unable to be here at this time as he is part of the search and rescue [0:26] i would also like to hand today's session over to mp tabitha sarah bohali who will be taking us [0:39] through today's proceedings as the chair good morning members of the media fellow guineas and [0:50] everyone joining us live and across the country maybe across the world as well before we formally [0:56] start i would like us to take a moment of silence for all whose lives were lost in this horrific [1:02] tragedy you may have your seat thank you before we proceed i wish to make some things clear so we are [1:57] all on the same plane out of respect for the victims their families the survivors and the ongoing search [2:04] rescue and recovery efforts our focus today is on this national tragedy on those who have been affected [2:12] on the questions that must be answered and on the actions that are necessary to ensure [2:16] that such a tragedy never occurs again we therefore respectfully ask members of the media to confine [2:22] their questions to matters relating to the mv barima tragedy should there be questions on [2:27] unrelated issues we will be happy to address them at another appropriate opportunity the organizations [2:35] represented on this platform here today are those that accepted the invitation to come together in [2:40] response to this national tragedy while not every opposition party or movement has chosen to [2:45] participate in this joint initiative those of us who are here have done so because we believe that [2:50] at moments such as these our foremost responsibility is to the people of guyana i wish to acknowledge [2:55] that the leader of the opposition as was said by my colleague uh general secretary odessa primus that the [3:04] leader of the opposition has been unable to join us today since sunday as you are well aware he has been on the [3:09] front lines of the search and rescue effort working alongside emergency responders volunteers and [3:16] residents in support of the ongoing operation his absence from this press conference is therefore not [3:21] one of indifference but one of service his immediate priority like ours is the welfare of those affected [3:27] by this tragedy today i have the privilege of sitting alongside representatives from across guyana's political opposition [3:35] derwin best leader of vpac is here mr francis michael bailey of vpac mr david patterson former minister [3:45] of public infrastructure and current acting leader of the alliance for change miss amanda walton [3:49] desire member of parliament and leader of the forward guyana movement miss janelle swetna member of parliament [3:56] we invest in nationhood with portfolio responsibility for public works miss dawn hasting williams member of [4:02] parliament representing win she has portfolio responsibilities for a number of things but [4:08] today we're looking at the amrindian affairs miss odessa primus member of parliament general secretary of [4:13] win and i am to be the sarah bohali mission chief whip we represent different political parties and [4:20] movements we may have different philosophies we may have different priorities and at times different [4:25] views on how guyana should be governed that is the nature of democracy but there are moments in the [4:31] life of a nation when those differences must give way to something greater this is one of those [4:37] moments the tragedy involved in mv barima has affected families communities and our nation as a whole [4:44] it has reminded us that when lives are at stake political differences must become secondary to our [4:51] shared responsibility to the people of guyana before anything else we extend our deep condolences to [4:58] the families and loved ones of all those who lost their lives to those who continue to wait anxiously [5:04] for news of their relatives and to the survivors who have endured an unimaginable ordeal we also [5:10] commend the members of the gdf the guyana post guard emergency responders healthcare professionals [5:16] private boat operators fishermen volunteers and ordinary citizens who have responded with extraordinary [5:22] courage compassion and selflessness in the search rescue and recovery efforts your service has [5:29] demonstrated the very best of the guyanese spirit this tragedy reminds or demands more than expressions [5:37] of sympathy it demands answers it demands accountability and above all it demands action to ensure that no [5:43] family ever has to endure such a tragedy again it is for those reasons that the joint opposition has come [5:49] together with one united voice the people of ghani deserve confidence that every possible lesson will be [5:59] learned and that every necessary reform will be implemented to safeguard those who travel our rivers [6:04] and waterways above all else we owe it to those whose lives were lost aboard the mv barima to ensure that [6:11] their passing is not simply mourned but becomes the catalyst for meaningful change that protects future [6:19] generations as i indicated earlier we have deliberately structured today's presentation and press conference to [6:26] begin where the tragedy begins with the people before we discuss vessels and regulations investigations [6:31] or systems we must first acknowledge the human cost of this tragedy the lives that have been lost the [6:37] families left grieving the survivors who continue to recover and the communities whose lives have been [6:42] forever changed to address this aspect of our presentation i now invite my colleague miss dawn hastings [6:48] williams member of parliament to speak on the human impact of this tragedy and the urgent support that [6:53] must be provided to those affected miss dawn hastings thank you mp tabito good morning everyone [7:04] i am dawn hastings williams member of parliament representing the win party in wake of the recent [7:11] disaster involving mv barima which occurred on the 18th of july at approximately 10 30 pm our first thoughts and [7:24] concerns are with the persons affected by this tragedy at this time i wish to join my colleague in [7:35] commending all the immediate response emergency responders all and more so the leader of the opposition [7:44] mr adrodine muhammad and his team who were out there as of day one of this incident it is unfortunate [7:57] that we have to mourn the lives of mourn the loss of so many lives it is very unfortunate up to this time [8:08] we have not known exactly how many passengers boarded the mv barima due to inaccurate information that we [8:17] continue to receive from the authorities it is quite possible that many of them may have been children [8:27] as of the reports received on tuesday the bodies recovered were 11 female children and four male [8:38] children that gives us a total of 15. 15 of our babies our children lost their lives this is a clear [8:49] indication that the maritime rules were breached this discrepancy suggests that proper passenger [8:58] registration registration was not followed raising serious concerns that compliance with maritime safety [9:06] requirements and accountability in the event of an emergency was not in place let me now express my thoughts [9:15] from the perspective of an indigenous person all lives matter i repeat all lives matter irrespective [9:28] of your ethnicity where you live and your economic status it is basic knowledge that the barima [9:38] waini region is populated with various ethnicities it is also public knowledge that many indigenous peoples [9:48] reside in this region however there has never been a comprehensive transport comprehensive review of the [10:01] transportation service by sea air or land for the hinterland residents in the 21st century our [10:11] indigenous communities are still forced to travel by river or sea because an airlift from ogle to [10:21] maburuma port kaituma or matthews ridge costing 55 to 60 000 guyana dollars remains a luxury to most of us [10:37] and we cannot afford it in this oil rich country this tragedy has brought to light the conditions under which [10:47] our hinterland residents had to endure traveling for long periods to reach their destination in the absence of [10:57] comfortable and adequate seating in the vessel we have seen passengers slinging their hammocks spreading [11:06] cardboards and bed sheets on the floor which is unacceptable in these modern times not too many years [11:17] after the madia dorm fire which claimed the lives of more than 20 of our indigenous children [11:25] this disaster has reopened painful wounds for indigenous communities across guyana we are aware [11:39] that the two showers are out here in georgetown for the national two showers council conference [11:47] i call on our indigenous leaders to demand justice for the families who have lost their loved ones [11:56] men indigenous men women children babies and in no less terms i ask that the leaders demand for a long-term [12:09] psychological and trauma support for the survivors and the bereaved families as indigenous peoples we are [12:20] frustrated and tired by how this government continue to treat us as if we do not matter and we will no [12:31] longer accept being pushed to the margins of our own land at this time i also want to say to join with the [12:45] amerindians people's association and my colleagues in the joint opposition in calling for the resignation of [12:53] the minister of the minister of public works bishop one edge it is time for him to go he has failed us he has [13:03] failed the guyanese he has failed the indigenous people and as a whole he has failed the country we call [13:12] on the public to keep the affected families in their thoughts and prayers let us stand together united [13:23] as we mourn the loss of our beloved ones i thank you thank you if we are unable to come together in the [13:55] face of such a tragedy then one must wonder what has to happen for us as guyanese to work as one based on [14:08] the way things have been happening over the last few days it has become apparent that we have no plans in [14:15] place in cases of emergencies as we would have seen um only a few years ago with the madia fire where [14:24] unfortunately the lives of many children were lost and it appears as though even in the face of that [14:33] tragedy we haven't taken an opportunity uh to learn from that as as the government and that is [14:42] wholly unfortunate i do believe that in the face of a crisis and as i'm sure as is shared by many of [14:55] my colleagues here at the table today we need each other more than ever and a tragedy of that magnitude [15:04] and the the resources that we have it calls for all hands on deck whether or not um i like darwin [15:13] mess i kind of whether or not i like darwin or um or anybody else is outside of the point we are facing [15:23] a tragedy and i believe the onus was on the government to get all of us involved uh the leader of the [15:32] opposition is now out at sea part of the rescue team because he made himself part um i don't at least [15:40] based on reports think the government considers him to be part um of anything but i am saying [15:46] that we should have all been called and immediately to sit at a table to put our heads together in the [15:52] midst of all that is happening to see how best we could work things out one of the things that in the [15:58] cases of of tragic situations here in this country whether great or small i am particularly concerned [16:06] about is the images and the messages that we see on a regular basis and there seems to be absolutely no [16:15] system in place as it as it relates to psychosocial support and in some instances where that is [16:24] available it is usually available directly to the victims themselves and in fewer cases to the family [16:34] and i think that that is something that i would urge that we revise as a nation we have so many [16:42] ministries and they have opportunities to um to come into play as well the ministry of culture [16:49] um you know in terms of messaging in terms of this is a lot of negative that is coming in um to [16:56] people and so we're being layered on we would have already had prior to this tragedy our existing [17:03] challenges and now we have to interface with seeing um and hearing of babies being found of [17:12] pregnant women being found and so we're being layered on with additional um painful things the trauma [17:20] uh people have to know interface with has become even more and in the coming days it will be even worse [17:29] because um more bodies are likely to surface and it becomes even harder for us and i'm saying that [17:36] as a people consideration has to be given to um ensure that as a as a country we put systems in place to [17:45] ensure that we protect our people because if we are unable to deal with this if there is a large [17:54] breakdown in the in the psyche of people um in their abilities to function um normally then we are going [18:02] to be running into a bigger problem directly after this problem um and clearly we have no capacity [18:10] to deal with these things it is also important that um as as even as this is a tragedy we must also [18:19] unfortunately learn as we go and adapt as we go and so we listen to the prime minister saying [18:26] that oh they were checked the the persons who were rescued they were checked and they were sent home [18:32] in that state after such a tragic event um you send a person home who has just gone through the most [18:42] perhaps traumatic experience they would ever have in their life um to me that is reckless and i'm sure to [18:49] many of you it is and we have absolutely got to do better when it comes to our people um especially uh [18:57] as as guyanese um unfortunately growing up our culture has not necessarily been one that is conscious [19:06] um of of a person's um psychology of their emotional state um but as we as we grow older as we learn as we [19:15] mature as we become more informed we would have to revise the way handle these sorts of um situations [19:23] you know i have listened to i have been in communication with the leader um of the other [19:30] and one of the things that he would have expressed over the last couple of days uh would be those persons [19:37] who automatically kick into gear to help there are some people whose mental state was trump was was [19:45] affected in real time and we have no system to deal with that because we jump into gear to help when [19:53] something happens and in most cases we are ill-equipped to help but we just would like to assist as best we [20:00] could and even in the case of the fishermen who are there on sea working and are helping it it has now [20:08] open the door for us to ensure that all of our fisher folk um are trained uh as it relates to psychology [20:17] and the helping in these situations it doesn't have to be anything in depth but at least give them the [20:23] capacity to be able to deal with those things one and two for us to ensure that we have a support system [20:29] for those people who are helping we have private entities uh who would have had people jump on board to help [20:36] we have um individuals who've come on board to help we have um opposition parties who have been [20:44] helping as well and i'm saying that even even in those instances we need to ensure that psychosocial [20:52] support of art is available to them and perhaps the setting up of hubs in different communities [20:59] across this country because this is um not a region one problem this is not a region one tragedy this [21:06] is a tragedy um that is a guyanese tragedy it's a guyanese problem and we're all affected and support [21:14] should be available through whatever mediums outside of calling in um to be able to give information [21:22] we should also be able to have hotlines that we can call into um to seek some degree of uh support uh [21:30] mentally as well um to wrap up what what i would um would have um been i believe that it is extremely [21:45] important um for us to uh take a step back um even now in that in all that is happening and really revise [21:55] what we are doing and where we're doing it i don't think it's too late to fix [21:59] um all the things that have gone wrong but for us to really look at how we could best help how all of [22:06] us can help it whether it is through messaging that goes out publicly whether it is if we have to if we [22:13] have people overseas even who are guyanese and they're um psychologists sociologists whatever it is [22:19] that we can bring in to help to um to to reintegrate some of these people to help to ensure that they have [22:27] some degree of psychosocial support um for us to look at those avenues as well because at the end of [22:35] the day more importantly we are all human beings and we are will all be affected and what that effect [22:43] looks like is not up to us we do not know and so i believe that there is need for us to unite in more [22:52] ways than one thank you available to be able to assist in any way that they can virtually as well [23:21] i would like us to now move on a little bit to some of the technical elements that [23:26] has drawn a lot of attention over the last couple of days so i'm asked if mr david patterson will lead [23:32] us through this section lita good morning members of the media and thank you for being here i would first [23:50] like to express our condolences to the families of those who has who would have practically passed away [24:01] and our prayers i'd like to express our support to survivors and our congratulations and support to [24:11] the teams that are now currently looking undertaking the recovery operation this morning i wish to address [24:25] the serious concerns surrounding the envy barima its maintenance history its operation and the urgent [24:32] need to protect the traveling public the envy barima was commissioned in 1939 and served this country for [24:42] many decades including on routes from west bank bar beast to bartico it is however best known for serving [24:51] the northwest district by design the vessel had an estimated passive passenger capacity of approximately 150 [25:01] persons and a cargo capacity of approximately 290 metric tons for a vessel this age maintenance is not a [25:13] routine administrative matter it is a matter of public safety from the 1990s until 2020 the general and [25:25] specific repairs were undertaken by established contractors including gnic and courtney bend contracting services [25:38] because of the age of the vessel several structural components had to be specifically fabricated overseas [25:47] by specialist companies these long-standing arrangements mattered they helped ensure that the vessel had access to the [25:58] specialist parts knowledge and technical support required to keep an aging vessel operating as safely as possible after the change in administration [26:12] those arrangements were disturbed contracts previously awarded to courtney bend were withdrawn and that company was forced into liquidation gnic [26:25] and that company was forced into liquidation gnic is no longer operational after its dockyard was repossessed by nissil [26:33] as a result maintenance and servicing of the envy barima were handed to another company whose primary business was fishing [26:46] let me be clear this is not a personal attack on any contractor the real issue is whether the critical link to the specialist fabrication [26:56] replacement parts and proven maintenance systems for vessel of this age was broken that question must be examined [27:05] carefully by independent maritime experts records will show that the envy barima was docked in november 2015 and underwent a [27:18] comprehensive rehabilitation that work included new engines new shaft new hull works and upgrades to the cargo and the passenger areas [27:29] the vessel returned to full operation in march 2017 it took 18 months to rehabilitate it completely [27:38] between 2017 and 2020 records also indicate that the vessel underwent its required maintenance cycles [27:46] and was deemed seaworthy up to that period however even with those efforts the administration at that time [27:56] understood that the remaining effective life span of the vessel was limited this is why through a grant and [28:04] loan arrangement provided by the government of india designs were advanced for the procurement of a new vessel [28:13] for the northwest route following an independent tender process a successful builder was selected that award was [28:24] challenged by the unsuccessful bidder which necessitated a further the subsequent further technical review [28:36] confirmed that the original decision and contractor was correct as the vessel proposed by successful bidder [28:45] was superior in all aspects on return to office the ppp reverse this decision made through the independent process [28:56] and awarded a contract to the previously unsuccessful bidder the result was mv militia a vessel which in our view [29:11] is not properly suited for the needs of the northwest route because of its size and design at the time [29:19] the public was told that the lower bid would allow savings to be used for the construction of new stellings to receive the new vessels [29:29] six years later those promised facilities remain incomplete port kaituma wharf is a clear example of mismanagement [29:41] the wharf project project was poorly designed was so poorly designed that it required major corrective work [29:54] question remain about whether adequate preliminary studies were conducted and whether taxpayers were forced [30:02] to be the additional cause because of these design flaws some familiar sounds almost like the gas [30:08] for sure isn't it to date the project remains incomplete and it's now being used as excuse why the mv brima [30:22] had to remain in operation we must also address the issue of ticketing passenger control cargo [30:31] management and vessel loading the problem of persons attempting to travel without official tickets whether [30:40] with or without the collusion of staff is not new between 2015 and 2020 independent inspectors were hired [30:51] directly by the ministry of the then public infrastructure to verify that passengers cargo fuel and related [31:00] operational matters were properly accounted for and documented this system inspection system was disbanded [31:13] the inspectors were removed and to the best of our knowledge not replaced with an equivalent system of [31:21] oversight had such a system remain in place it may have helped prevent unsafe loading practices and other [31:30] operation failures addressing now ferry up the ferry operations sorry today we are calling for some urgent [31:53] actions first a full and independent examination of the maintenance inspection dryduction dry docking and [32:03] certification records of the brima of mv brima in accordance with our maritime laws we have the laws in [32:10] and amanda will explain they are on the statutes we don't have to do anything um special second [32:19] we're asking and demanding that every passenger vessel in the country's fleet must be inspected to conform [32:27] its seaworthiness and suitability for the routes in which they are being used we are also calling for the [32:34] immediate modernization of docking facilities the introduction of a secure and efficient ticketing system [32:42] and urgent credible program to replace aging vessels with the modern ferry fleet supported by upgraded [32:53] terminals this is not about one vessel it's about public safety accountability and the rights of [33:02] citizens in the riverland and hindering communities to travel with confidence our people the people [33:09] deserve answers and they deserve a transportation system that is safe modern reliable and properly [33:18] managed thank you thank you mr paterson i think he gave us a clear understanding of why we are where we [33:37] are at this stage i wouldn't say much because i know a lot of questions will be asked i will just hand [33:43] us open out to mr dervin best for him to make his statements good morning good morning to the press [33:53] and viewers around and around the world first i want to call on each and every one of us pastors [34:00] churchgoers to pray not just for the victims but for guyana today as we come together as a united [34:09] opposition i want to focus on the failures that was publicly displayed by minister himself i've seen a lot [34:21] a call for an independent investigation but there's also a call for criminal investigation for some [34:28] admission that was made public the minister would have admitted publicly that this vessel was drew for [34:36] dry dock i asked of the press and every right-thinking guy needs to look at that recommendation in that [34:43] recommendation it says the two main turbos needs to be changed what does the turbo use for to give the [34:51] engine power why would you if the captain recommend this ship needs turbo send that same vessel at sea [35:00] immediately there should be criminal investigation and charges being laid wherever it should be [35:08] secondly the minister would have moved the statement publicly on multiple occasions about the loading of [35:14] the vessel whether it was overloaded or not we demand for the minister to public immediately [35:20] what method is used not to just load this ship but all the other ships around guyana these ferries are [35:29] owned and controlled by the state which means the responsibility falls directly at the feet of the [35:36] government what method was used to calculate where the passengers weighed or the cargoes weighed or what [35:44] we use in what we call in guyana average how can you demonstrate whether that vessel had the required [35:52] amount of cargo or not the artist that mission that the minister made last night that this vessel was [36:00] carrying commercial cargo which was petroleum product i'm sure you guys missed that that vessel is not [36:07] designed to carry fuel it is designed to carry passengers and dry cargo how was that cargo stored [36:15] was it stored in a safe manner was it highly flammable that was another disaster waiting to happen [36:21] is this a normal practice these are admission of the minister himself those three right there [36:27] i believe should call for an immediate criminal investigation for the negligence of the people [36:35] responsible for the 150 lives that we are now sitting here moaning what we've seen in diana [36:41] today is a pattern of negligence and it's become and it's becoming norm you go around diana a pothole [36:49] after a road is built after a year becomes the norm an unsafe practice where you find 30 children in [36:56] norm why would you sit there and try to establish there's 150 i i just heard the minister said this [37:03] vessel's capacity is 150. i asked for the minister to demonstrate where they seat or seat in on that [37:11] vessel for 150 passengers because none of us have gotten into a plane or any other aircraft i've seen [37:17] people in on the floor what are the standard protocol when you load these vessels with public [37:24] these are public transportation this is not a man private minibus thirdly this is the most important [37:31] factor where this is concerned who was responsible for that vessel which is supposed to be the crew [37:37] members we've all traveled to port kaituma a lot of us would have traveled to the united states i want [37:42] to give this to you guys so you understand i don't want to use shipping too many shipping terms [37:47] not because a pilot or or 17 crew members are on a vessel means they are licensed to maneuver that [37:55] particular vessel they have they have what's called licensing you can have a pilot license to move a [38:01] plane from ogle to port kaituma does that mean that same pilot can take 747 from jfk to new york the [38:10] minister must publicly share with every guyanese that those 17 crew members had the required training [38:21] and they were certified certified to maneuver that particular vessel the next question i have for the [38:26] minister to make public this has nothing to do with investigation because this has become a become a [38:31] pattern in guyana where we have normalized unsafe practice we have normalized corruption so this today [38:40] is not about politics we must come together as a people and we demand accountability from this [38:46] government this is not about politics the next the requirement i'm asking each and every one of [38:51] those crew members should have undergone some level of safety training were that ever done we asked [38:58] for those certificates to be published not just for this vessel for all the other vessels that are [39:03] operating same for the scales we must be able to show whether the scale was on board the mv barima [39:10] whether it's on the wharf where it was on the forklift and same when these vessels leave sport kaituma [39:16] how are these cargo loaded onto these vessels and how are they monitored or are we constant yes third [39:25] i mean next what was the navigational system that was on this vessel we are now in 2026 our information [39:35] would have led us to believe that this vessel was being operated with line of sight meaning a modest watch [39:41] a tree weight line up and turn and go they had absolutely no navigation equipment on a vessel even [39:47] our phones today i was able to find my way here today by using my cell phone then it's a must demonstrate [39:54] if this vessel had any navigational system up to what the minister earliest uh former minister spoke to [40:02] to maritime standard the next call i'm gonna make the minister published she said this vessel is due for [40:09] dry dock in 2026 they're just waiting for the slot i'm sure we all heard that if this vessel was docked [40:17] in 2024 the average vessel is docked every three years that's maritime three to five years why is this [40:24] vessel ready for dock in less than two years with a list of deficiency as long as it is one of the [40:31] deficiencies that you saw is for them to pour cement on the floor the only time you pour cement on the [40:37] floors when there's leakage this is a recommendation that is on the internet that is published by the [40:45] same government that's a part of the tender the other thing is spoke to is beams that are unsafe [40:53] now if all these deficiencies were displayed or was reported by the captain why was this vessel sent to [40:59] sea why is our indigenous people why are is our guyanese people continue to be treated like third and [41:09] fourth class citizen when we are now not just guyana but an oil rich guyana i hope and i pray that the [41:16] people of guyana wake up and come together and unite because leave your party card at home this is no [41:22] longer about politics this is about survival i thank you thank you mr best we will now move straight on to [41:38] francis mr francis bailey as he gives us his presentation thank you so much tabitha [41:45] uh good morning to the press today i'd like to thank you for joining us and i'd like to fit myself [41:53] somewhere between my esteemed colleagues miss walton desire and mr david patterson um with a brief [42:04] uh exposition on our our reasonable expectations of a fair investigation now i think everyone knows by [42:13] now i would probably sit here and happily speak for two hours so i prepared a statement so in the [42:20] interest of efficiency expediency um we don't we don't have to sit here for too long but this is what [42:27] i have to say and i said i'm fitting myself somewhere between mr patterson and miss uh walton desire [42:34] because uh mr patterson would have just started on the topic of what it means to have a full investigation [42:41] and i'm sure mr zero will continue with some of the more technical aspects of the maritime law that [42:49] relate to this particular case so today we're not here to prejudice the outcome of an investigation [42:57] we're here to set out what every guy and he should expect from one the sinking of the mv barima has shaken [43:04] our nation families deserve more dolences they deserve answers and these answers must be based on facts [43:14] evidence and independence not politics and public relations a credible investigation in guiana must [43:22] ask the difficult questions was the vessel seaworthy or maintenance schedules followed was the vessel [43:29] overloaded were safety regulations enforced were emergency procedures followed did regulatory agencies [43:37] carry out their responsibilities and every single possible contributing factor must be examined without [43:44] fear or favor evidence must be preserved immediately survivors crew members first responders and witnesses [43:52] must all be interviewed while the recollections are so fresh maintenance records inspection reports cargo manifests [44:00] communication logs and all relevant documents should be secured and made available to the investigators and more [44:08] importantly this cannot be an investigation where the government investigates itself behind closed doors [44:15] the process must be independent and transparent it must also include qualified marine experts [44:24] whose credibility is beyond question the families and the public deserve regular updates not rumors and not [44:33] speculation and finally the purpose of this investigation must be bigger than assigning blame it must identify [44:42] every failure to occur occur and produce recommendations that prevent another family from experiencing this pain again [44:51] our expectations are simple first we call for the publication of the investigations terms of reference the names and [44:59] qualifications of the investigators and regular public updates second we demand that the final report be released [45:07] in full together with a clear timetable for implementing every safety recommendation [45:14] too often indiana when tragedy occurs there is a moment of public outrage there is sadness grief and then too often [45:25] unfortunately we we go back to being silent and ignoring the problem at our peril i think i'm joining every single [45:34] person at this table here today in hoping and in fact demanding that this is a never again moment in our history [45:44] where never again would we have to open up the newspaper and learn about pregnant women babies [45:51] children elderly of all races of all ages and all dispositions meeting their end in such a tragic manner [46:01] that should be a stain on the conscience of the nation and we would do right by each other and the future [46:07] citizens of this nation to make sure this is the first and last time something like this happens thank you [46:13] thank you mr bailey i will now hand us directly to mp wharton as she gives her presentation thank you [46:35] opposition chief whip good morning ladies and gentlemen of the media and to guyanese listening and indeed [46:42] those who may be listening from across the world our thoughts this morning remain with the [46:49] the family who've lost loved ones those who are still waiting for and the survivors who have endured [46:57] unimaginable trauma we also are thinking about the members of the coast guard private citizens [47:06] the guyana defense force transport and harbors staff the fisher folk volunteers all of those who are [47:14] continuing the courageous quest for the recovery of our loved ones i think nothing that we say today should [47:21] distract from the human tragedy that has unfolded in our country but this tragedy in my view demands [47:31] more than condolences it demands as i've been as has been echoed by my colleagues before me a fair [47:38] independent and capable a fair and independent investigation rather capable of commanding uh public [47:46] confidence the reality the reality that we're seeing here is that guyana's development has outpaced its [47:53] institutional capacity and unless we build institutions that are equivalent to our growth [48:00] more guyanese will pay with their lives i think i want to emphasize that whilst we mourn our responsibility [48:10] as legislators is not just to mourn but to ensure that this never happens again so i want to make and [48:18] confine my comments this morning at least these initial comments on the critical aspects of our of our [48:25] legal and regulatory framework that should underpin our government's approach um to this matter at this [48:32] time now every serious marine casualty requires an independent safety investigation we want to [48:40] emphasize that that investigation is not about assigning blame it is about establishing the facts [48:47] and identifying the safety failures that have allowed the tragedy to occur it examines every aspect of [48:54] the occurrence including the vessel's maintenance history surveys certification inspections operational [49:02] management regulatory oversight and the actions and decisions that contributed to the casualty [49:10] its purpose is to determine not only what happened but why it happened and how do we prevent it from [49:16] happening again i want to note here at last evening at the government's press conference prime minister [49:25] mark phillips repeatedly referred to a commission of inquiry and that reference in and of itself raises an [49:32] important legal consideration which commission of inquiry is the government proposing a commission [49:39] of inquiry established under the commissions of inquiry act is it referring to the formal investigation [49:47] provided for under part 18 of the guyana shipping act or is it referring to the marine safety [49:54] investigation required under the international maritime casualty investigation code and it matters it matters [50:03] because these are not interchangeable terms because these are not interchangeable terms they are very distinct [50:08] separate legal processes with different purposes different powers and different legal consequences [50:17] most importantly the marine safety investigation required by the international maritime organization [50:24] casualty investigation code is not optional and i want to emphasize that the government does not [50:31] have a choice it is not optional it is a mandatory safety investigation that guyana is required to conduct [50:40] following a very serious uh maritime or marine casualty because we have signed on and we are signatories to the [50:50] international maritime organization and i want to be clear that the commission of inquiry cannot replace that investigation [50:57] one in the improve uh exists to improve safety the other examinations or investigations may examine broader questions of public administration [51:10] the question of accountability and culpability so they cannot be interchanged point to note as well is that the commission of inquiry takes considerable time [51:22] meanwhile evidence is lost memories fade and opportunities to establish facts disappear [51:30] this is precisely why the legal framework requires that a marine safety investigation [51:36] begin immediately i want to be clear that guyanese have had enough we've heard enough [51:45] we are tired of that there will be no stone left unturned we are tired of hearing that there will be full and [51:52] independent investigations and we've watched commissions of inquiry after commissions of inquiry and we are [51:58] frankly exhausted before the end of today it is important that the government of guyana tell the [52:07] people of guyana precisely what legal process it has invoked under what legal authority it is proceeding [52:15] who has been appointed to conduct the mandatory marine safety investigation and how that investigation will be [52:22] functionally independent of those whose actions themselves may fall under investigation let's be also [52:31] clear uh my guyanese brothers and sisters that we do not trust the government i certainly do not have [52:39] any confidence in the government to investigate itself and this is the reason that international law requires [52:46] an independent safety investigation precisely because serious maritime and marine casualties may require [52:55] investigators to examine the conduct of the regulator itself the certifying authority the inspecting [53:03] authority and the operator in this case where it is a state-owned vessel where the state itself will [53:10] become a subject of scrutiny the investigation must be capable of commanding public confidence so as i've said [53:19] before the questions may arise given that this is a state operated vessel about maintenance surveys [53:26] certification inspections operational management and regulatory oversight if those matters are to be [53:33] investigated the guyanese people must have confidence that this investigation is free to go wherever it will [53:42] lead accordingly it cannot be conducted by the government itself so i am calling for the government to [53:50] identify the legal framework and i began by referencing the point that i think one of the most important [54:00] lessons from this tragedy is that we have outgrown our institutional arrangements we have to come to [54:07] grips with the reality that we are not any longer a poor country but we you know and and a small country [54:15] with modest transport uh systems according to the statistics we are the fact one of the fastest growing [54:22] economies in the world we have expanded aviation maritime transport etc we've seen the roads open we've seen the [54:29] ribbons cut we've seen the vessels uh being uh commissioned and there is talk now about rail yet our accident [54:38] investigation capability has not kept peace around the world countries establish permanent independent [54:45] transportation safety investigation boards and authorities the united states for example has the national [54:51] transport safety board transport uh canada has the transportation safety board of canada these are [54:58] independent bodies whose sole purpose is to investigate transportation accidents preserve evidence identify [55:05] causes and make safety recommendations they do not exist to assign blame they exist to prevent the next [55:12] tragedy i strongly recommend and i want to say unequivocally that it is time that guyana moves in that [55:20] direction and this is a recommendation that i had made some time ago when i work in the ministry of of public [55:28] work of public works as it then was in the in the mid uh 2000s that rather than maintaining separate fragmented [55:37] arrangements for for example aviation accident investigation and maritime accident investigation that we should [55:45] under parliament establish a single independent transportation safety investigation board the existing accident [55:54] investigation authority that exists within the maritime sector could be subsumed and consolidated and it will [56:03] become a part of the board alongside marine investor investigators and as our transport network evolves [56:11] investigators with responsibility for roads bridge and rail accidents such a board would have a permanent in permanent [56:19] investigators specialist expertise statutory powers to secure accident sites preserve evidence obtain operational and [56:29] maintenance records conduct technical examinations and issue independent safety recommendations it will be activated [56:37] immediately when a serious accident occurs without waiting for ad hoc arrangements to be assembled i want to wrap up by [56:46] indicating that the tragedy of the mv barima demonstrates why this is necessary because while rescue and recovery [56:55] operations must always remain the first priority the preservation of evidence cannot wait every hour that passes [57:03] risks the loss of critical information that may explain not only what happened but how to prevent it from happening again [57:16] i think that the tragedy here is that our public expenditure is outpacing the capacity of our institutions to regulate [57:25] supervise and protect our public and i will end by reminding us that when our institutions and our institutional [57:34] arrangements fail to keep pace with the development of the country and the fastest growing economy and trillion dollar budgets [57:43] it is the poor and ordinary guyanese that always bears the cost and as the mv barima so very clearly [57:51] shows us that sometimes we bear the cost with our lives thank you thank you mp walton i will just move [58:04] directly to mp janelle for her to give her presentation she's also uh responsible for the public works portfolio [58:14] from uh the reinvested nation good morning guyanese our viewers around the world today i join at this [58:30] table those who will be elected to be your voice and if we cannot be your voice then we have failed you [58:44] my task today requires no script my colleagues here they've laid the foundation on every aspect as it relates [58:55] to this tragedy there are no words to express what we are feeling in a it is one thing to throw cement [59:09] on a crack it is another to fill a hole with asphalt but who fills the hole in the hearts of the people [59:21] of guyana who fills the hole in persons beds right now that are empty who fills the hole in the arms of the [59:36] mother that is crying for her baby who is filling the hole for the brother the sister the aunt the uncle [59:50] the daughter that is crying for her father and uncle that cannot be found in the waters one life loss is [1:00:06] one too many how great leaders echo that over all the centuries one life loss is one too many guyana we [1:00:20] have over a hundred plus persons and we are here to speak for you we join together to speak for you [1:00:35] we cannot be silent on this this is the highest level of incompetence and to fix this is only one way [1:00:50] the ppp dictatorship administration must go and we first must start with a minister responsible for [1:01:01] the ministry of public works minister one agile who is throwing blame on every except his own and as a [1:01:15] people and as the elective body we cannot sit and be silent we join together and call for the [1:01:26] immediate resignation of minister one agile minister of public works spoken about his incompetence in [1:01:38] parliament at the beginning of the budget debate i've laid the foundation of all the failed projects [1:01:46] beginning with roads he can cover a hole in a road but no one can cover a hole in the hearts of the [1:01:59] people and the families that are crying the bodies that are floating up those that are decomposing in [1:02:13] the containers what is the legacy that is being left what are all the viewers of the world seeing here [1:02:29] we mourn we mourn we cry but we will not be silent the responsibility of this tragedy lies at the feet of [1:02:39] minister one agile and he must be removed from office vp baradja deal he said that all those who are [1:02:54] responsible for this tragedy will suffer the consequences it must begin with a minister who has the portfolio [1:03:04] for the ministry of public works and we're calling on his removal his resignation immediately the people of [1:03:14] this country cannot wait we must speak out we must be held accountable the responsibility falls at his feet [1:03:27] it is not on the cannabis it is not on the tide it is not on the sailors it is not on the cargo it is not on the edge of the vessel [1:03:43] but by now you should have gotten rid of that vessel that vessel is over 80 years old and to fix this [1:03:54] problem the ppp administration must go immediately we have no confidence in you none our people are dying [1:04:05] trucks are going backwards on the bridge are dying fires are following ministers the entire cabinet needs to [1:04:17] be sent home and the ppp administration needs to go immediately and i speak as an elected member of [1:04:26] parliament the voice for the people and i join all the colleagues here at the table you've elected us [1:04:31] and we speak for you we speak for you the ppp administration must go immediately let it be clear [1:04:39] the responsibility of this tragedy lies solely at the feet of minister one edge and the ppp dictatorial [1:04:47] administration thank you thank you mp janelle it is such a sober moment because she spoke from her [1:05:09] heart and she's she spoke what all of us here feel we appear we're trying our best to compose ourselves [1:05:17] it has not been easy it is not easy some of us may have families some of us may not but they're all [1:05:26] children of guayana before we conclude allow me to leave the people of guayana with this message [1:05:42] as we open up for questions today the joint opposition has spoken with one voice we have [1:05:52] honored victims we have stood in solidarity with survivors and their families we have outlined the [1:05:58] serious questions that must be answered the reforms that must be pursued and the actions that are necessary [1:06:07] to restore public confidence in the safety of our nation's waterways there must be truly an independent [1:06:16] investigation free from political influence and supported by the expertise necessary to establish [1:06:23] the full truth of what occurred we call for complete transparency throughout that process we call for [1:06:30] every piece of evidence to be preserved for every witness to be heard and for every recommendation to [1:06:36] be implemented we call upon the government of guayana to place the welfare of the victims and their [1:06:44] families above all other considerations by ensuring that they receive the medical care the psychological [1:06:50] support the financial assistance and compassionate engagement they deserve during this difficult time [1:06:58] we also recognize that tragedies of this magnitude are of concern not only to guayana but to all who value [1:07:06] human life good governance and public safety accordingly we respectfully call upon the diplomatic community [1:07:13] and our international partners including united states embassy the british high commission the high [1:07:18] commission of canada the delegation of the european union united nations and the organization of american [1:07:24] states the caricom secretariat and other diplomatic missions accredited to guayana to continue encouraging [1:07:31] transparency accountability and adherence to internationally accepted standards throughout this process we also [1:07:40] urge them where appropriate to support efforts that strengthen humanitarian assistance maritime safety [1:07:46] institutional capacity and the rights and welfare of the victims survivors and their families and i think [1:07:55] i can echo the sentiments of all here that this tragedy has to be at the foot of the minister of public works [1:08:07] and the pvp government the measure of a nation is not simply how it responds in moments of celebration [1:08:16] but how it responds in moments of tragedy let us not become another incident that fades from public [1:08:24] memory without meaningful change let it instead become the moment when guayana resolve that every life [1:08:30] matters every family deserves answers and every person who boards a public vessel is entitled to expect [1:08:36] that they will return home safely to the families who are grieving we say this you are not alone [1:08:43] we stand with you we will continue to seek the truth to advocate for justice and to work towards the [1:08:50] reforms necessary to ensure that no other family experience such a loss may the souls of those who [1:08:58] perish rest in eternal peace and may their memory guide us towards building a safer more accountable [1:09:05] and more compassionate guayana at this time we will be pleased to take your questions which we [1:09:13] respectfully ask we confine to matters relating to the mv barima tragedy good afternoon uh could you say [1:09:43] off the bat why um or what response was given by aptu as to their absence here today we would like to [1:09:52] keep the press conference on the mv barima uh at the beginning of the press conference i stated that [1:09:57] all those are here those who accepted and we'd like to skip it at that for now thank you concerning uh there [1:10:06] there was some concerns about the commission of inquiry into the madia um what happened at madia [1:10:13] you know it was not good enough and so on um mp walton mentioned uh she you know she doesn't trust [1:10:22] the government to investigate itself and so on whom do you believe should head this commission of inquiry [1:10:29] and um should we be looking overseas in the region what are your suggestions for this inquiry to be [1:10:40] clear that there has to be more than one investigation because like i said in in my uh statement that [1:10:52] different investigations will serve a different the investigation the marine safety investigation that [1:11:00] we will do under the uh legal obligations that we have to the international organization going out of [1:11:11] the the safety of life convention requires a safety investigation to be done it is my strong [1:11:21] recommendation that this government call on our international partners as the president so loves to [1:11:31] say i think calling on them now is appropriate to lend to guyana the particular technical expertise [1:11:41] that will be needed um here this is not uncommon we do it all the time when there are aviation accidents [1:11:49] we activate a safety investigation um because of for example the various components involved in the [1:11:58] aircraft the manufacturer the engine etc we call on on technical expertise from the various [1:12:05] uh companies um and as well as um organizations like the ntsb transport canada with one request from the [1:12:17] government of guyana i am sure that those agencies um will respond uh positively so that is one investigation [1:12:27] like i said that investigation is not to apportion blame or liability it is to learn what the problems [1:12:35] were and how do we stop this from happening again and then there could be a commission of inquiry under [1:12:42] the commissions of inquiry act i truly believe that it should not be um anyone in any way shape or [1:12:52] form associated or affiliated uh with the government i believe it is time that we draw expertise from the [1:13:00] international community to give guayanese some sense of um hope that there is there will be some impact [1:13:10] it's a tall task because like i said we don't trust uh this this this government and then of course there [1:13:17] may be criminal proceedings um flowing out of it so this is why it's important that you have [1:13:25] institutional arrangements and people in positions that understand what has to happen because it is obvious [1:13:31] that they don't i want to make one further point and i will close there i find it odious that given all [1:13:39] of the calls for uh juana jill's resignation that the government is still callous enough to have him [1:13:47] sitting at press conferences and in the face of guayanese people it is unconscionable and it says very [1:13:55] clearly that this government really doesn't care about how traumatized we are they do not care by [1:14:02] now at a bare minimum he should not be even publicly speaking be speaking on any of these matters but we [1:14:12] have to endure him press conference after press conference trying to score political points about [1:14:17] what they did and what they did not do now is not the time for that he must sit down and he must be quiet [1:14:22] um if i can go again uh there will be a life of the people who died given the issues with the captain [1:14:35] and the crew and the manifest and so on how does the opposition expect that to be addressed even for [1:14:43] the people who were just injured or who had to be on the water for a long time yeah the issues of [1:15:01] liability will flow directly to the state this was a state-owned vessel and state-owned vessels vehicles [1:15:11] etc are usually not insured that is because the state underwrites any liability that could occur so [1:15:19] the state will be liable and then you have the madia dorm fire as a blueprint about what the families [1:15:30] should not do because you had a certain person who is now a minister that caused the family to sign [1:15:40] undertakings um waiving their legal rights for five million dollars and so immediately and i think that [1:15:51] this is something that the opposition may be able to assist with is to assemble a battery of lawyers to [1:15:57] provide legal advice to those persons um to the families because this could very well end up in in [1:16:07] in something like a class action lawsuit if the if the government is unable to come to some kind of [1:16:15] of of proper settlement of this matter for families i mean there's a little girl that has lost her [1:16:23] mother her father her sister her brother how are we ensuring her welfare that she goes to school and [1:16:32] so i think that strong legal team has to be assembled to make sure that these families do not fall through [1:16:37] the cracks i am aware that emissaries of the government are already approaching uh victims families and so [1:16:48] of course while you can't compel anybody to do anything in terms of what they want to accept or don't [1:16:53] accept i would strongly recommend that a battery of lawyers be assembled to really um give some legal aid [1:17:01] to the uh family members and and the survivors of of this tragedy last question from me um just to [1:17:14] add to uh what the mp would have shared um in terms of of us having had a similar well not similar [1:17:23] but having had a tragedy in the past um i would have noted as well uh my colleagues here from vpac making [1:17:31] a call even on social media um for persons to avoid signing um any form of documents at this time where [1:17:39] you know people may not necessarily be in the best state of mind they're grieving and these sorts of [1:17:43] things and they may be approached um to do same it is at this point that we have got to remain extremely [1:17:50] guarded um additionally in my conversation uh with the lead in terms of uh what we should share as it [1:17:58] relates to his willingness um and commitment as well to helping whether it is uh with the legal fees [1:18:07] to ensure that those persons those victims are uh given what they they should be given um even though [1:18:17] that may not necessarily look at like a particular figure because currently the matter that was [1:18:23] referenced um by by my mp before um would have stated that the the people from the madia fire well some of [1:18:32] them unfortunately were made to sign that document and those who did not sign those documents to date [1:18:38] are in court being fought by the state uh with a series of high profile lawyers and so it's not [1:18:49] necessarily going to be a walk in the parking as much as we are saying that this is a heartbreaking [1:18:54] situation as we have said uh with the madia situation the government still found it i don't want [1:19:01] to say in their heart because there is no demonstration of same um but they still they still found the [1:19:07] courage to fight those poor indigenous families um with some of the the biggest lawyers that that they [1:19:15] have and to the best of my knowledge some of them are not even from guyana um that make up that that um [1:19:25] that panel there pardon that makes up the team yes and so uh that is wholly unfortunate but um i would [1:19:33] like to boldly say even though the the leader of the opposition has indicated his willingness that all of [1:19:39] us um are willing i'm sure that uh the afc they have some lawyers um uh mp amansas also uh may not be [1:19:49] practicing but also a lawyer unable to assist some almost certain that as a collective we are able to pool our [1:19:57] resources and energies to help those families um as it relates to getting some sort of legal um help [1:20:07] so that they could make the best uh decisions going forward thank you and just one last question from me [1:20:17] um mr partisan you mentioned um all of the efforts the acting government would have made in um having that [1:20:27] vessel in a pristine state by 2020 um the government is saying though that it was the last time it was [1:20:34] serviced was in 2024 so based on your knowledge and your experience in the field how how did we get [1:20:41] from it being maintained in 2024 to what is what has just happened yes maintenance of these vessels are um [1:20:55] quite regular i what i what i tried to outline is that you can't just pull up to any dry dock put on [1:21:06] a coat of paint fumigate it and and say to and put it back out on onto the river onto the ocean and say [1:21:15] that though this has been maintained and it has been sea worthy um i tried to highlight without being [1:21:23] be very specific the shafts the drive shafts i could remember that um particularly even the drive [1:21:31] shafts for the propeller propulsion system i mean they're not aging i'm talking about the propellers and [1:21:37] those and then they had to be uh specially fabricated in europe in a in a fabrication um old fabrication [1:21:48] yard in europe so you can go and carrot into dry dock and a guy sprays it and sandblasts it and [1:21:59] obviously and it looks nice and new and you send it back out but the motive the metal fatigue still [1:22:06] remains because you haven't done a good job so um and i was trying to highlight that for 30 years before [1:22:15] there were certain companies that always wanted but actually no one did it was a two horse race [1:22:21] for 30 years and everyone knows and every bit of new way because they had established linkages [1:22:30] of specialists fabrication yards um so we gain no confidence in the government saying tell that they [1:22:38] they um they dry docked or they did rehabilitation work in 2024 um what they should do and and they should [1:22:47] actually sit down and start telling you what they did and who but we know who did it um what exactly [1:22:55] they've done because a boat the the this integrity of both is not the visual areas in which you see [1:23:01] that is exactly what um has transpired here so therefore you you can have a lovely coat of paint [1:23:07] but it's leaking on the inside i mean reports are that the vessel was taken in water that's what the [1:23:13] passengers are saying the best is taking more which shows that is some damage to the structure [1:23:17] of the whole um those are the issues at which um they have to address and and as i set a full [1:23:25] comprehensive review we'll address that there is a question on the zoom link so we'll start off with [1:23:40] iva yes um good morning my um first question is given the right to life carries a state obligation to [1:23:50] protect citizens through adequate safety regulation do you believe this tragedy uh reflects the [1:23:57] systemic human rights failure in maritime oversight and not just an isolated incident and my other [1:24:04] question is still a minute to mr patterson uh my concern is the seating capacity in relation to the [1:24:10] mv barima 150 to almost 400. will you be able to explain to us how um is the capacity of a vessel [1:24:20] um really determine it could testing uh in response to um miss wharton's question about the right to life [1:24:42] it is entirely possible that it could um you see again this is where you you have to emphasize the [1:24:50] importance of institutions institutional arrangements legal frameworks these are very boring issues they're not [1:24:57] sexy at all but these are the underpinnings of the safety the dignity and and and and and the right to [1:25:06] life of our citizens and so it could very well be and i do not want to prejudice any inquiry so i will not [1:25:13] even try to lead them down that line but it could very well be that a commission could find that the the [1:25:20] the actions or the failures or the lapses were so egregious that they constitute a flagrant violation of [1:25:28] regard for the life of guyanese citizens ever thank you very much for that question the maximum capacity [1:25:39] not passing the maximum load that a vessel can take is determined by its size its length width depth draft [1:25:47] etc so um and it's a finite number so but what is done in the old days slave ships you the slavers didn't [1:25:59] carry any cargo so you could have said they gladly they most willingly could carry 600 persons not [1:26:05] passengers 600 persons and caught a cardinal cargo in the modern era if you have a cargo vessel as well as [1:26:12] a passenger vessel you you there's specific computations there's a hull with which is the the area the [1:26:20] storage area below deck once you've once you've established the hull you set out that is for cargo [1:26:26] and then you compute how many what is what the weight distribution is left in the case of mv barima and and [1:26:38] i challenge marid because if marid is going to get up and say that they have 394 i challenge him that [1:26:45] whatever the number they have marid had to be delinquent if the director of marid is saying [1:26:51] it out at his calculation that there's 394 374 passengers then he has allowed a vessel to travel [1:27:01] with less than 374 life jackets you think about that if you have passengers and you say that i am [1:27:07] certifying this um best of 374 persons you must have at least 400 life jackets right so when that's [1:27:16] where this story becomes unraveled what he is trying to what they're trying to be clever to protect [1:27:22] incompetence is trying to say that all right um if you have less cargo we can carry more passengers [1:27:28] it does not be certified for a fixed finite amount so therefore 150 barima on the mv barima i know for [1:27:37] sure in 2017 documented there are 200 adults life jackets because it is 150 passengers and crew but [1:27:46] you you actually get the extra and 25 i think children life jackets because it was certified for [1:27:54] that the new vessel which they they procured mv militia is 274 passengers and it's three times the size of [1:28:03] barima um so uh the the they're just trying to say the thought that yes if you have no cargo 374 [1:28:13] passengers can can um when it cumulatively add up the weight can can be on the vessel but it's certified [1:28:20] for 150 and that's how you certify you certify it you calculate the finite number of um passengers that you [1:28:28] certified for plus the load and that's the limit so um but i i do want maybe um miss wharton you can [1:28:38] ask the director call i'm sure they'll be on there this evening again that if the vessel as a hl said [1:28:46] and based on his sliding scale which is that the less cargo you have you have more passengers what is [1:28:53] the mars computation of the passengers that should have been on the vessel because as you said or the [1:29:00] vessel had 268 metric tons of cargo so how many passengers has he calculated based on his sliding [1:29:11] scale that the vessel could safely accommodate and ask him who makes that calculation because cam you [1:29:19] can't put that back on the captain he's not a mathematician right he's not a man that's supposed to [1:29:24] say decide listen to me you put in upon a potato i got to offer a passenger mara that is why we set [1:29:30] is a definitive level but ask them today because they're trying to be clever they're trying to deceive [1:29:36] the people i would ask you to ask him today so therefore if the brema had 268 metric tons of cargo [1:29:43] how many passengers would you have certified today and you would hear the fancy dance and then he comes as [1:29:52] though you know i mean i there's there's only a few times as i i hear things that jack do you'll say [1:30:00] and i said to myself you know me maybe i think they really think we stupid you know i mean these are [1:30:07] things you can go and chat gbt now yeah and find out you know i mean he is talking about um steel [1:30:17] thinner steel in those seas like that i mean any mariner would tell you i mean the buoyancy is not the [1:30:21] steel is the volume i mean it is the volume that that they did that the vessel displaced you know [1:30:28] i mean um they're just throwing out things because they're desperate and they hope that the [1:30:35] guineas public could be distracted never and i and and and i will say this ever that when i just said [1:30:44] three hundred and how many ninety something former members of the transport and harbors and married [1:30:53] contacted me and asked where did he get that figure from and there are people that have been in the [1:30:58] transport harbor 25 years one guy i mean i thought he probably would have grown up there you know me [1:31:03] he's a former well and there you i won't call his destination very senior he's been there for 40 [1:31:09] years and he said oh impossible never mv barim was always 150 where they're getting these numbers for [1:31:15] mv came here which is twice the size is just about 300 passengers [1:31:19] um so don't be deceived they're they're flundering and they're trying to to deflect and they're trying [1:31:26] to mislead the public um but you are on the right track if you just keep on keep um keep [1:31:33] their feet to the coast and asking these questions minister i'll come to your defense if we are to go with [1:31:47] the uh i mean former minister sorry exactly um if we are to go with the formula that you just used then [1:31:59] we are then agreeing in agreeance that these passengers would have then been cargo because [1:32:06] what we just saw is the vessel that would have probably had passengers were only able to seat some [1:32:12] of them so if we were to go with that formula that you were trying to justify where were the seating for [1:32:18] this then you point to something very interesting let the government publish the certificate we don't [1:32:24] change numbers of passengers overnight when the vessel was certified it had to have been certified for a [1:32:30] particular number of passengers we call on the ministers to publish the certificate and not only [1:32:35] the certificate certificate who were the surveyor because you can't have a surveyor that's licensed [1:32:40] to survey a fishing boat suffering a passenger boat we must see the certification also of the surveyor [1:32:46] because maybe that's of you tell them we ain't getting enough cargo pack them people in the in the hole [1:32:50] and that's my response to that and to answer the question that you asked earlier on the last dry dock to back [1:32:57] him up they had to have been a survey before that vessel went into dried out the reason they're taking [1:33:02] the dry dock they take it out of water so they can do everything i am not coming to the defense of mr [1:33:08] patterson but i'm just saying if the vessel was out of water and it was surveyed this that surveyor [1:33:13] should have identified all the deficiency he don't get to say i'm gonna leave the ones that the apnoe [1:33:18] government left and then just fix the ones that because there's no such thing when the vessel was placed [1:33:26] and dried up whatever the deficiency was in 2024 should have been corrected and the fact that we're [1:33:32] going back less than two years it is clear that we maybe just changed two plates put some paint and [1:33:38] put the boat back in the water i'm going back to say this again their own survey report that they just [1:33:43] published shows the efficiency that that vessel is not sea worthy there is another question on zoom [1:33:54] anthony anthony yeah pleasant good afternoon every person good afternoon to everyone present at the [1:34:05] table can you hear me yes we can okay i have a question directed to miss amanda watton is there [1:34:12] any other person that is present at the table last evening the prime minister would have quote unquote [1:34:19] referred to opposition elements trying to politicize the situation and he said that the the calls for the um [1:34:29] minister edgil to step down what are your thoughts or response to these questions to these statements [1:34:35] made by the prime minister look trying to keep it civil um the the prime minister unfortunately uh has to [1:34:58] dance to the tune that his controllers are playing in and i believe that the instruction has been given [1:35:06] to do everything to make sure that we don't look bad circle the wagons thanks david as it were [1:35:13] for you not to understand as a leader that this is a national tragedy that requires a national [1:35:23] response and that frankly speaking the and this is probably why we need to to have civic education [1:35:32] that the government consists of the legislature of which the opposition is a part then it means that [1:35:42] you shouldn't be leading this country because at a time when you should be using every resource that [1:35:49] you have nationally at a time when people like david paterson should be at the table to bring [1:35:54] institutional memory to bear you have time to talk about opposition elements and about who's not [1:36:00] running the search and rescue etc it is a level of pettiness that this government continues to have that [1:36:07] has us in the place that we are now where we got a hundred of our guyanese brothers and sisters and [1:36:13] children and babies at the bottom of the ocean and we can't get they have a lack of focus that is [1:36:21] appalling they're focusing on the very very wrong things so so you know i am a ptm really i i it is [1:36:32] unfortunate but i think it is a good indication to the people of guyana that elections have consequences [1:36:39] and they will know what to do when the next election comes around on the point of the the last point [1:36:47] that you made about um politicizing it i think that the government has an inability to distinguish [1:36:55] between accountability and politicizing for them they would prefer that you not speak of it well we [1:37:04] well as indicated by our presence here today we're not having it and really and truly we really have lost [1:37:11] confidence in this government we've lost confidence in anything that they will say and i want to [1:37:16] encourage you the media to keep your foot on their necks keep their feet to the fire because the people [1:37:21] of guyana deserve the truth and the truth has to go wherever it will wherever it will lead i trust that [1:37:27] that answers your question mr day thank you um to answer the question quite um listening to the prime [1:37:39] minister say that these calls um by not just the opposition because uh to the best of my memory uh [1:37:48] the person did say that persons from the general public did call as well as opposition um parties calling [1:37:56] for uh bishop edgel to um to resign and he said it was nice it's ironic that he said that he has no [1:38:05] problem with democracy somewhere along the line in that same um statement and what i thought it was [1:38:12] is disrespectful it came off as though the prime minister is disconnected from the realities of what is [1:38:20] happening in this country and that same disconnect with the reality that we face as guyanese [1:38:26] is also shared by the minister who was silently sitting um next to him bishop edgel [1:38:31] um with a smirk on his face um i think that that is also shared in the language and the tone in [1:38:38] which he has been speaking um and in some instances almost shouting um in the faces of guyanese during [1:38:46] a time like this at a time like this he could not contain himself um i don't know i don't want to go [1:38:55] there but um but but it is it is sad and it is wholly unfortunate that we have this level of ignorance [1:39:02] being displayed at um such a level and again to reinforce the the point that at such a time like [1:39:09] this um as it relates to the politicizing um of this tragedy it is a strategy that i believe is being [1:39:19] used by the government to silence anybody who's not them and so you hear if you it regardless of what [1:39:26] you come out and say the the opposition leader goes out into the into the waters there he's politicizing [1:39:33] politicizing the thing um uh apno people go out and they they have a vigil oh they're politicizing somebody [1:39:41] else goes and they do something else politicizing so really and truly that should stop us from doing [1:39:47] anything at all and allow the government to function in this um ignorant manner that they have been [1:39:56] functioning in in and we we're not going to have it we are not going to sit by we're not going to be [1:40:03] bullied um by this government regardless of who it is and to reiterate what was um said earlier as i think [1:40:11] it is very important at this juncture when we are in this emotional fragile state as a country i think we [1:40:19] should not be seeing bishop agile at all um or the prime minister at this point they have done sufficient [1:40:26] damage to an already wounded guyanese society and they need to step back to step aside and to allow [1:40:34] someone else to take the front we have not heard anything at all from the president um we have seen [1:40:41] that he's back in the country he has not even addressed us and that too is a reiteration of the disrespect [1:40:47] that we have seen um by both the prime minister and uh minister one edge i'd not only like to call [1:41:00] on the president of guiana to remove his mask when he's addressing the nation um my son stood next to [1:41:07] two police officers who were them uh themselves unmasked and uh i've just seen him in masks and the [1:41:14] gloves since his return but let's speak to this issue of politicization of this issue [1:41:19] i'm sad to report but this is an intensely political issue from the time you have a vessel that is [1:41:27] managed and administered by the state that is 87 years old that is traversing a route with passengers [1:41:36] paying passengers mothers children we've we've gone through the list it is a political matter because [1:41:42] it's the state's responsibility to not only set up the regulatory environment and framework within which [1:41:49] that vessel operates but adhere to safety protocols to make sure that everything is done in a proper [1:41:56] manner to so when people board a vessel they can get off the vessel at their destination that if an [1:42:02] emergency or something should happen as they're traversing the the the route there would be an ais device [1:42:11] on the ship to enable to us to find it all the necessary protocols they would have as mr patterson [1:42:18] says they would have an overabundance of life jackets based on the calculation of the number of persons [1:42:24] that can fit on the vessel and it would not arbitrarily change from 150 to 390 because i'm [1:42:31] sure any of us that came here today in a car would not expect to go outside and see what we knew was a [1:42:37] seating capacity for five turn into 15 just because someone gave it another number and a boat is not [1:42:45] a mini bus and this is a prop why i said that is because this is a cultural problem so it's not a [1:42:50] matter of us trying to politicize it it's it's as a matter of us trying to bring attention to something [1:42:56] that's a systemic problem and has persisted for many years corruption kills and we can finally see that [1:43:03] corruption kills i it should not have gotten to this point but our poor safety culture has persisted [1:43:11] for long enough that we waited until such a great tragedy brought our attention to it but this has [1:43:16] been a political issue for many years it's been a political issue since people were complaining about [1:43:21] overcrowding under mini buses and other forms of transport it is very much a political issue and we will [1:43:29] not shy away from that fact and and i would hope that the politicians that are currently gaslighting [1:43:37] the nation reconsider their position there's a duty of care to every human soul on board of that vessel [1:43:45] and they have been failed i feel like we are much farther from the answers and the truth that we seek [1:43:50] with every moment we seek to escape responsibility and blame shift and find the nearest poor working [1:43:59] class person that we can shift the blame onto it stops us from taking institutional level of [1:44:04] accountability so we can fix the situation so we can have that never again moment that we're all hoping [1:44:11] for and and it's very discouraging to see politicians especially as miss primus said persons like one edge [1:44:17] that have already traumatized this nation coming to gaslight us on top of it and i would like to see [1:44:23] the end of that francis while i'm stealing the mic from you because it's still be vpax mike we got [1:44:30] to ask the tough question and the elephant in the room why is this always why is this only for the [1:44:34] indigenous people we are in the 21st century and the only vessel that's 80 years old is being dedicated [1:44:43] to the people of region one which is predominantly the indigenous people enough is enough one final word [1:44:53] and then we'll get another question yes please permit me um i want to ask one question but also leave a [1:45:01] lingering thought where is strongman barajak deal at the moment he's never taken an approach in all of [1:45:12] politics to being by the back seat and allow ministers and other government officials to be in the front [1:45:19] line he is taking a back seat and it's a strategic back seat reports coming that the president was in [1:45:29] region two while he was in region two he was in a corner crying because when he turned up there [1:45:35] persons were all crying and alone but i believe it was a strategic plan to leave president ali to waddle [1:45:44] in his own failure so that he can be seen by this nation and his cabinet is a failure question [1:45:59] kaitra news just oh that long okay marvin kato nightly news i am going to request um one person [1:46:08] from each political party represented here answer this question but i would like to start with mr paterson [1:46:15] given that you were the minister responsible when flight jamaica crash which could be considered a mass [1:46:20] event as a former minister of the sector let's say this issue approach it being the subject minister [1:46:29] oh absolutely differently first and foremost you have to be respectful and when i say be respectful [1:46:37] less than 12 hours after the unfortunate incident there's a tick tock video of agile getting up the vessel [1:46:48] was not overloaded this is i want to stop you and and and and and um and he's there at the top of his voice [1:46:58] literally berating the feelings the eyesight the memories of the survivors every single survivor [1:47:07] the cave that you interview set out that the vessel is overloaded and these are not persons like me and you [1:47:14] mean if i jump on i have traveled on it once again no number even kimia i'm going up to the northwest [1:47:20] but these persons travel every single month year so they would know just by eyeballing if it's got more [1:47:28] people than normal so first thing you have to be respectful second thing you have to do is remorse [1:47:35] remorseful i mean you have you have to empathize with people they immediately said that any comments [1:47:42] negative or to his um stewardship it's political statement should never do that and then you have [1:47:50] to let the institutions work you we we have as i was highlighting we have um standards with which we [1:47:58] signed on to because when when the flight jamaica um incident there's an established protocol accident [1:48:08] investigation unit kicks in and then and they step aside from gcaa because they they have to [1:48:15] proceed independently we have established protocols by now it's supposed to have kicked in you the [1:48:23] preservation of evidence there and those things are supposed to kick in you're not supposed to [1:48:29] first of all i mean i i understand first people saying that the captain is um was tested positive for [1:48:36] drugs and those things like that you know that was the first thing that edged wrote to deflect the [1:48:45] arrest the two people you know i mean because like you know i mean like a man uh on drugs so therefore [1:48:51] he overturned the button and and then he's throwing red meat to his supporters for them to devour rather [1:48:57] than being professional you know i mean so so they're they arrest the entire um management team trap the [1:49:05] traffic officer the the traffic manager the the store supervisor the loading managers however they've done [1:49:14] nothing but the complaints have been that they did that the ministry themselves had generators atvs and [1:49:21] those things like that he's done nothing to the engineer that's or his ps who would have said let's [1:49:27] rang them up and said look i need to get these things up because um if you don't do it the usual thing [1:49:32] if you don't cooperate them you're anti-developmental you know i mean so it is a question of following your [1:49:39] Figure it and establish norms and then finally i want to make a a a a a a a a statement on search [1:49:46] and rescue we all knew that um mark phyllis was clueless we all knew that you know i mean no there's [1:49:56] a fellow you you meet him and he and you speak to him and he's forever however when they came in at [1:50:05] the advent of oil and gas searching rescue the mansatt here who can speak more on this search and [1:50:12] rescue became a paramount importance this country our offshore um all fines and productions they're [1:50:23] all offshore if there's a disaster god forbid let's use this area as a blueprint for what would [1:50:30] happen if one of those spso's um got into any danger you could see that they're dead because [1:50:38] these guys got helicopters can't fly the coast guard boards don't even know what they're doing [1:50:47] so but the search and rescue which was supposed to be an independent body in every other country under [1:50:54] this coast guard is an independent body they move it under to um there was the cdc was a civil defense [1:51:01] commission who are coordinating agency that handles hampers right now you you you may smile but when [1:51:09] you sit down and think about it to me and they're talking about oh this and this the cdc is civil [1:51:16] when there's a flood they're there they have no capacity to do this quarter to do um search and [1:51:22] rescue it's a dedicated thing that's under every other country is under this coast guard and have [1:51:27] established units established protocol no it's under the prime minister um so that he gets six billion [1:51:34] dollars a year um and he never comes to it and he uses it for political propaganda but he is clueless [1:51:42] um but you mean as i say one eye man is um king and blind nine man country so he's looking good now [1:51:50] right but there is a series of clueless persons but we would have done it totally different because of [1:51:56] course we'd had our search and there was a search and rescue policy and establishment in pro in progress in [1:52:02] 2020 that would be up and running the protocols would have been established and the and the [1:52:08] technical work would have kicked in immediately thank you what was your what was your question [1:52:26] as a if you were in the minister's position let's say this issue faced you how would you approach it [1:52:34] being this subject i would have offered to the president my resignation it's it's really that simple [1:52:47] i think this matter has been handled poorly from the top down from the president come down [1:53:01] look at when the president spoke by the time the president addressed this nation a couple of things [1:53:09] had already happened one at jail had already very in a most bellicose manner said to the nation [1:53:18] the vessel was not overloaded that was the early morning right by the time the president spoke to [1:53:29] this nation they had started to reverse the position because i think he came in the next [1:53:38] day and he addressed the next day by that evening by the evening of sunday they had started to reverse [1:53:45] the position and saying oh the vessel was overloaded the manifest was fraudulent that we had more than we [1:53:52] than we had but the captain and the captain had cannabis so as a president of a nation that is [1:54:01] possibly facing the the most grave catastrophe my nation has ever faced with hundreds of Guyanese [1:54:09] possibly dead at the bottom of the ocean one would have thought that Irfan Ali's approach would have been [1:54:17] different for me what should have been done is that as president he should have immediately required [1:54:28] that the minister the head of the maritime administration the head of the transport and [1:54:33] harbors uh division proceed on leave to facilitate a full and independent and impartial investigation [1:54:44] i would have said that to the nation at least my people are aware that listen to me i am not about [1:54:49] to stand nonsense in this there's too much happening here and we've got to get to the truth of this because [1:54:54] this can't be allowed to happen again instead what you see is an instinctive circling of the wagon and [1:55:01] you come in to tell us empty words that we have already experienced the day before when you were [1:55:06] not even in the country and so the faculty was not even there today one would have expected he would [1:55:11] come and say to this nation i've asked the minister the head of marad who's the regulator the head of the [1:55:17] transport and harbors department who's the operator to proceed on leave to facilitate an investigation [1:55:23] then he should have announced as the president maybe a task force a task force comprising i would say [1:55:34] members of three government mps three opposition mps private sector persons indigenous representatives [1:55:46] maybe the human rights organization and and and another uh civil society organization that will report to me [1:55:54] as the president on all things mv barima and then i would have called immediately on my international partners to say [1:56:05] look ntsb we need your help we don't have the expertise here we need to begin immediately to secure [1:56:13] an independent and impartial investigation because i cannot afford to lose 130 guy in his lives again [1:56:19] that should have been the statement that one would have expected uh from air finale instead we get [1:56:26] platitudes we get oh no stone unturned no uh we must love and yes yes we love you but we want the truth [1:56:35] as well the two are not mutually exclusive so i think that um that is how i would have approached it [1:56:41] my uh my my response is a quick one um and mp tabata can hear me out uh when she asked if i would speak [1:56:52] on the win um from the win aspect i said there's one sentence i would say and mp amanza echoed it i would [1:57:02] resign and i would quote this here that i have written in my script ministerial responsibility means [1:57:11] accepting responsibility not only when systems succeed but but when systems fail and that is what [1:57:23] i would have done if i were in minister edger's position and also i would have removed the title [1:57:31] bishop from my name okay um i'll give a few words over that i'll give a few words on behalf of vpac um [1:57:51] i have had time to think a lot about this particular question i would echo the sentiments of my esteemed [1:57:58] colleagues on the table by saying uh it is without question that the subject minister in such an [1:58:06] instance should resign immediately uh last night i saw someone share a few posts on social media [1:58:14] that showed country after country i think it was south korea the prime minister resigned um there [1:58:21] were a number of countries where there were ferry disasters and the subject minister or even the [1:58:25] prime minister resigned or they were fired right so i think that goes without saying no given the uh [1:58:33] standing allegations that our president was at a world cup football game which remained to be confirmed [1:58:41] because we have still not seen a single photo from that 24-hour period right but so it's alleged at the [1:58:48] moment and we're waiting on further confirmation but given that our head of state was out and [1:58:55] people in his own cabinet were not aware of it then i think the circumstances change a little bit [1:59:01] and as the subject minister first of all there would not be two gdf helicopters that reportedly had their [1:59:08] ground systems unit uh fried sitting unserviceable in a hangout that could not make it to the to the site i [1:59:18] think the systems that should have been in place beforehand were not to my knowledge there's no regular [1:59:25] testing of the life rafts of the life jackets so it was almost like a suicide mission but what i would [1:59:31] have wanted to see is a more immediate response people being mobilized to the site if the vessel had an [1:59:37] ais locator as it was supposed to have been we'll get more than an average of where it was and known [1:59:45] directly where that asset was people could have been mobilized they have search and rescue helicopters [1:59:51] that are working with exxon i believe those should have been requisitioned asl recently shut down their [1:59:58] rotor services department within the last week i made to understand they had an available helicopter all [2:00:04] they needed was temporary certification so they could have joined the search and rescue effort those [2:00:10] people should have been mobilized to the scene right away rather than trying to limit how bad we look [2:00:17] internationally we should have reached out our international counterparts i'll echo mr miss walton [2:00:23] in saying this call out to trinidad serename french guiana to request any vessels or aircraft [2:00:31] they had in the area that could join the the search and bright and early the next day i would have expected to [2:00:37] had divers on the scene again no matter we have diving schools in the caribbean we could have called [2:00:44] for help got the divers there one of the most heartbreaking things that i've seen in the last few [2:00:50] days is that bodies of babies pregnant women and so on are now popping up and i don't i really don't believe [2:00:58] it had to be like that i'm sure some people would have surfaced in that manner but i maintain the belief [2:01:04] that if we were able to get divers mobilized to the scene fast enough we may have been able to retrieve [2:01:10] some of those bodies in a more dignified fashion i also expected that i called some of the parlors along [2:01:16] the coast to try and figure out what our cold storage capacity was and it was very disheartening to [2:01:22] find that i could not find capacity for more than 31 or so dead bodies and all marcharies in this country [2:01:31] don't have the facility to store partially decomposed persons in saudi i believe it's around 15 people [2:01:38] so the next thing would have been to mobilize cold storage containers to the location so that when people [2:01:45] are retrieved from the water they can be they can be cooled down and stored until their family members [2:01:52] are able to identify them they needed psychosocial services on site they needed logistical arrangements to [2:01:59] make sure they book out all the hotels in that area so people have free room on board it was [2:02:04] reprehensible that they sent some of those people back to their region with a hundred thousand dollars [2:02:10] and a plane ticket with the most mental anguish on their mind i think they could have been much more [2:02:16] humanity and much more humility when when the minister came to speak and and often he did it with such [2:02:24] arrogance that it it's it's left many of us still very upset but it was uh it was a disaster on top of a disaster [2:02:33] because i think the response to this disaster was just as disastrous as the disaster itself [2:02:40] and when those things are completed you make sure you get the divers and you start retrieval of bodies [2:02:45] and you figure out the cold storage and the psychosocial support and then the financial support [2:02:50] not compensation just to support people need or to bring families in then you could start thinking [2:02:56] about things like uh coordinating salvage crews so we can make sure that at some point we have a [2:03:02] salvage crew to come and float the vessel up and then take it for some sort of forensic investigation [2:03:09] i know when planes crash divers go they retrieve all the little fine bits of foam and wires and [2:03:16] they reconstruct it in a hangar somewhere so that subsequent of forensic investigation they can [2:03:22] identify exactly what wrong what went wrong and exactly how to prevent it happening again and i think [2:03:29] we need to get to that stage in guiana where we do not just stop at outrage when these things happen [2:03:35] but we move beyond that and we make we we come to this place where we decide this or this or this and [2:03:44] this is never ever ever going to happen again in this country and we see to it that's all we take [2:03:54] one final question from kaitra news good morning anasa williams kaitra news um there has been a burning [2:04:11] issue a lot of persons will have been questioning um the way in which the government has been handling [2:04:15] minister edgil and i recall at the first press conference um the prime minister basically said that [2:04:21] to send him home quote unquote would be the president's call um so my question to the opposition [2:04:26] is what action will you be taking to parliament has there been discussions um for you to basically [2:04:32] seek a motion of no confidence or maybe a select committee if no action is taken between now and [2:04:39] the next weekend of parliament to address um the way the government has been dealing with minister edgil [2:04:45] seeking that this tragedy has occurred under his ministry thank you for the question from the [2:04:51] point of view of parliament um all of those options are on the table we are in discussions in terms of a motion [2:04:58] dealing with the issue in there's a video that is actually circulating about what the minister said [2:05:06] in 2023 as it relates to the vessel and is it then that he lied to parliament at that point or something [2:05:14] happened after he made that statement and so at this point we're looking at all of the options as to [2:05:19] what would be the best um route to take as it relates to parliament should it be a motion of no [2:05:24] confidence should be that he goes to the privileges committee on that particular matter but we also [2:05:29] understand how parliament works but we will make an attempt to put forward something to parliament that [2:05:34] he has to answer to what has happened um we have parliament on monday there's also discussion on whether [2:05:41] we should actually put a question without notice on the order paper to deal with this um this matter [2:05:47] because it is urgent and it is important and for the speaker to say it is not would be a tragedy in [2:05:52] itself so that is also on the table so um you will hear from us as to exactly what route we take [2:05:58] um come monday in parliament yes i also want to also add the public part of this you can start a [2:06:10] petition probably would urge you to do that you start a petition online whatever it is and then when it [2:06:17] um when it's completed you can hand it into the your mp and ask them to lay it into parliament on behalf of the [2:06:26] people that you would like this particular individual who you no longer have confidence in even if you [2:06:33] voted for him previously or not you no longer have confidence in him and we the people who signed this [2:06:39] petition asking him to be removed so you can do that as well okay it has been two hours just about that [2:06:52] and no no not anymore uh and i would like to thank you i would like to thank you for coming i would [2:06:59] like to sincerely thank everyone here that is on the panel from vipac from fgm from afc and of course [2:07:07] our win mps for being here today it shows our commitment to the people i want to also sincerely [2:07:12] thank odessa primus mp who just put all of this together with the blessings of the leader of the [2:07:18] opposition uh because we recognize indeed that at this moment we should all be able to work together [2:07:24] to deal with this national tragedy and we shouldn't try to do it um on our own or by ourselves and so [2:07:30] as we move forward uh we've put on the table what it is that we expect moving forward from this [2:07:36] government but we also know that they are hardly likely to listen to us and so it has to be some sort [2:07:40] of pressure from the people and from our end as well and so you will be hearing more from us [2:07:46] on these matters so thank you very much for coming thank you very much for all those who tuned in on [2:07:52] the social media and the members of the media who are on zoom uh again please continue to pray for the [2:08:00] families um that are going through this very trying moment i i cannot even perceive to think what it is [2:08:06] that they are going through because i am far removed from it and i can't sleep at night so i don't know [2:08:11] how they're dealing with this tragedy so sincere condolences again and please keep all of all the [2:08:17] families in your prayers thank you very much