FL v Zachary Wester Trial Day 5 Defendant Zachary Wester Cross Examination

[00:00:00] Speaker 1: uh let's go ahead and remain standing let's go ahead and oh well are they all here mr gear yes okay you ready to go yes all right all rise all right please come to rest mr wester we had uh stopped for lunch and you are still under oath and back on the stand okay sir yes sir mr williams you can begin your cross [00:00:30] Speaker ?: um [00:00:38] Speaker 2: all right good afternoon mr wester good afternoon we um towards the end of your direct examination mr davis was asking you and you were answering him some questions about how you were a proactive deputy when you were with jackson county correct correct and i believe that's how you described it you were proactive yes sir and you explained why this is this is home for you right jackson county yes sir that is correct all right you come from a law enforcement background your father has a successful career in law enforcement correct that is correct and specifically in narcotics while he was in jackson county correct yes that is correct and um sounds as if we all agree everybody in this case that wanting to be a proactive good law enforcement officer and work case is hard is a good thing correct it is a great thing yes and advancing in an agency like the sheriff's office nothing wrong with that right correct i think we would agree that it's how you get there that is what is at issue in this criminal case correct that's what is at issue here is how you choose to be proactive or how you behave as a deputy based on those motivations correct [00:02:00] Speaker 3: maybe if you could repeat that question i don't want to give you the wrong answer sure well [00:02:07] Speaker 2: we agree that those are fair motivations when being a deputy correct yeah absolutely all right so it's really what you do with those motivations that's what's at issue in this case this criminal case right now correct whether you whether you act in earnest or criminally that's what's at issue in this criminal case correct i would agree with that all right now i'll try for the sake of everybody's clarity i'm going to try to follow more or less the same order that mr davis did thank you and um i understand you have your notes there same goes for um for me as it does mr davis do you need a fresh recollection you let me know um but one thing um i'll start with is the listed uh victims and i'm going to try to follow the same order so let's start with mr emmanuel josh emmanuel now there's been a lot of testimony um in this case and also on your direct examination about a notice to appear that was given to mr emmanuel after the time of your arrest of him is that right that is correct okay and you've testified that those were not something that were done that you know of for felonies correct correct you had not done one correct that is correct all right sounds as if it it basically what it is is you're saying it surprised you that it was done in that instance correct very much so yes all right let's talk about mr emmanuel a little bit no criminal history correct and you discussed that with him correct yes okay that of course would be a factor um on a monetary bond which is what would normally happen correct correct correct all right um mr hodges lieutenant hodges who you're saying was the one who made that decision correct yes sir okay he reported to you that he knew mr emmanuel since he was a little boy seven or eight years old that is correct and grew up in some kind of a church community with them knew his mom correct yes sir and you looked at his arms on the video and you didn't see any indication of drug use on his arms in his behavior in his appearance right when you made the stop he told you before you ever discussed the possibility of getting in the car he told you there was a firearm in the car correct yes sorry he was and you said it on the video correct that he was cooperative and seemed straightforward with you during that interaction on the video correct absolutely yes he was any reason based on your observations what you knew that he would have been a flight risk in the criminal case after you charged [00:04:57] Speaker 3: him um it would be hard to make that judgment call within the few minutes encounter that i had with him i had never seen him before this traffic stop mr hodges knew him a lot better didn't he i would agree [00:05:09] Speaker 2: with that yes okay i understood he still was charged criminally wasn't he absolutely yes sir okay lieutenant hodges didn't get rid of the criminal charge did he um he the notice to appear correct addresses bond and how they're going to come to court isn't that right that is right all right and that's all he dealt with that you've testified to correct that is correct all right and before we move on from it you know you chose not to handcuff emmanuel either is that correct on [00:05:51] Speaker 3: the video that is correct all right but he wasn't a flight risk at the scene yeah i would agree with that he was not at the scene [00:06:00] Speaker 2: now on mr emmanuel's video we've seen it it's it's a partial video do you agree with that i would agree [00:06:07] Speaker 3: with that how did that happen so the body camera was initially i attempted to activate the body camera to start the recording in the recording you will see about a 30 second sorry about a 30 second period where there is no audio there is nothing but video after the body camera had experienced what i believe is what's called a reset function the camera was back operational i was able to double tap the center button and the video started recording as it should and as it starts recording we see where you [00:06:44] Speaker 2: are and then we see you go back and make contact with mr emmanuel trooper opry and you mentioned that syringe and that bag correct correct but it's clear from the video that that's not the first discussion of it that prior to the video recording it must have been discussed as well yes sir as i testified all right so that means that you had already been around on the driver's side car and had the chance to be in the area that you said you first saw it correct when i was retrieving the firearm that is correct but that's not on your body camera video is it it is not in the beginning of the stops done on the body camera video is it it is not it doesn't start and it doesn't actually show anything until after you've already been in the car and have the opportunity to switch sides to the other side of the car and after you've already had the opportunity to talk to josh emmanuel with trooper opry right there isn't that right that is correct and you already had your search gloves on is that right that is correct now mr the other mr williams in this case reginald williams yes sir we don't have any body camera video for that incident is that correct if you take a minute get situate if you report there if you don't mind give me just a second yes sir [00:08:07] Speaker 3: it is my understanding that there was no body camera footage um provided in this case [00:08:15] Speaker 2: you would agree i think you testified to mr davis that the goal of having a body camera understanding that there can be technical errors but the goal of the body camera is to allow someone else in this very court system perhaps to see what you or any other deputy would see while they had that body camera on in that right body cameras are very beneficial yes not for not for reginald williams we don't have one [00:08:40] Speaker 3: right so why don't we have one for him if the body camera video for mr reginald williams would not have been deleted from the server this jury would have had a chance to review that body camera who deleted it mr williams i don't know all i can attest to is whenever i start the video and i upload it to the server what happens to it after it leaves the server i'm not in control of that if someone deleted it [00:09:04] Speaker 2: did they delete the same the the front part of the manual video did they go in and delete that as well [00:09:09] Speaker 3: mr williams i've already testified as to the first part of that emmanuel video and i made it very clear that the body camera experienced a malfunction it wasn't something intentional and to go back if you don't mind i'm i'm not going to stop the course of a traffic stop for a body camera to reboot and begin recording again that's not good from my officer safety standpoint and it's not good period to just stand there idle waiting for a body camera to start back up understood but you're also dealing with [00:09:38] Speaker 2: people's constitutional rights that's what your training manual said absolutely okay so josh emmanuel's constitutional rights are important you agree with that right very yes all right and his and his rights to challenge evidence in a criminal court setting are important aren't they i would agree with that yes okay like they should be for everybody right for every single person yes okay but again we'll get get to mr williams in a minute but back to emmanuel for the reasons you've explained you didn't choose to reactivate your body camera for mr emmanuel is that right yes sir the body camera was [00:10:13] Speaker 3: reactivated that's how the jury was able to see the remainder of that traffic stop well why weren't we able to see [00:10:19] Speaker 2: see the first part of that stop that's what i'm asking about right yes sir so i don't work for axon [00:10:25] Speaker 3: i'm not an axon body camera technician so all i can testify to is the facts of what took place in that particular incident where it it appeared to experience what we were taught in our training as a reset function and the body camera was unable to start recording and as soon as it got to a spot to where the camera was rebooted and i could restart the video i did that as soon as possible and it so happened that [00:10:48] Speaker 2: that missed the part where you would have first gotten into the car and had a chance to see the syringe in the baggie is that right can you repeat that and it so happened that that error occurred at the time that you would have first gotten in that car and first had the opportunity to see the syringe and the baggie isn't that right i would disagree with that that's not when the error occurred i would disagree [00:11:09] Speaker 3: with that then why isn't it on the video mr williams i've explained this to you three or four times [00:11:15] Speaker 2: now as far as why that is not on the video you said it was because of a because of an error is that right that is correct yes okay and the error occurred at the time that otherwise your body camera you're saying would have shown you go into that car and see that item for the first time that's when that error occurred is there some reason you will not answer that to the jury the body camera error occurred [00:11:42] Speaker 3: as soon as the traffic stop was initiated okay you had let's move on okay great let's move on mr [00:11:49] Speaker 2: williams is one that we don't have one on and you're saying that it was deleted from the server and that's why we don't have one at all is that right yep and i just want to be clear so the jury [00:11:57] Speaker 3: understands by no means am i saying that someone deleted that video with some ill intent what i am testifying to is that it was common for the body cameras once there was a certain threshold within the server for the body camera videos to be deleted by no means am i saying it was deleted with ill intent [00:12:16] Speaker 2: why would they have deleted if someone did what would it have been somebody a person a staff member who would have done that it would have had to have been a staff member why would someone have deleted in this instance we're talking let's talk about reginald williams that's what we're talking about in that one that clearly pertained to an arrest correct yes correct okay why in the world would [00:12:34] Speaker 3: that have been deleted i wish i knew that answer [00:12:40] Speaker 2: you didn't take any photographs on that department issued camera did you i did and we don't have we don't have those for the case file for mr williams do we if it's not been provided i would assume not you mentioned that the uh meth in the lunch box was in a hidden compartment is that right that is correct did you photograph that hidden compartment that sounds unique i wasn't there but based on your description that sounds unique i did not photograph the hidden compartment no mr williams said he was going to work do you dispute that i don't dispute that whatsoever after all he had his lunch box correct that is correct yes sir and mrs laster who was with him says that she tried to videotape this on her phone recorded on [00:13:37] Speaker 3: her phone you told her to put away you dispute that i dispute that 100 but we don't have a video from [00:13:45] Speaker 2: your camera either do we that is correct neither one of you have any video evidence of that stop all we have is your report and what they say is that right yes for mr van he actually consented to the search before you ever even asked is that right he did yes he told you about his criminal history yes he did told you what he'd been in prison for yes sir for for math he just he told it to you you didn't really have to push him on it did he i did not okay and that video starts when it when it does the one that we saw do you dispute that i mean that's an accurate video that is an accurate video yeah okay and it starts when you're on the passenger side having already been in the driver's side isn't that right that is correct [00:14:39] Speaker 3: why is that um for this particular case i don't recall um if i experienced an issue like i experienced [00:14:46] Speaker 2: in the emmanuel traffic stop from our standpoint with the video it appears to be the same [00:14:51] Speaker 3: as the emmanuel stop doesn't it that could be your opinion sure well the video starts [00:14:57] Speaker 2: and you're at the passenger side aren't you i am i mean already been at the driver's side correct and we see on the van video that when you're searching the passenger side and you reach into that center console over that door that opens out towards you that's when you allegedly find that black baggie of meth is that right that is when i found the black baggie of meth correct you didn't find it when you were around on the driver's side and that door was open face further away from you [00:15:26] Speaker 3: correct i did not remove the documents from that center console to search the center console on the [00:15:31] Speaker 2: driver's side it would have certainly been more accessible on that side given the way that that [00:15:37] Speaker 3: console opened right i'm six five i have a long reach um so for someone else sure they might be able to answer yes to that question but i would disagree would it be harder for you on the driver's side would it be [00:15:50] Speaker 2: harder harder for you to have gone through the console on the driver's side no sir okay i mean you agree with the way that the mr van and the video shows the door opens towards the front seat passenger yes it does leaving the console visible from that driver's seat that is correct okay but you didn't take those papers out until you were on the other side until that lid was opened blocking any other view from the inside uh to the inside of that console isn't that right that's when that's when you chose to take those papers out and go through them right during [00:16:26] Speaker 3: my search i did take the papers out of the center console when i was on the passenger side of the [00:16:30] Speaker 2: vehicle that's correct about the timing the first time you tried to do it the first time was on the passenger side right correct after it was already open and you had already been at that area on the [00:16:40] Speaker 3: driver's side mr van left the center console open so yes he had it open and he consented to the search he had it open from whenever he retrieved his documentation for the vehicle okay so he's consented to [00:16:52] Speaker 2: the search and he left it open isn't that right yes that's what you're saying okay why mr based on your training experience why would he have consented to a search before you ever even asked about it and then left a console open if he knew methamphetamine was in there if he had been riding around like you say with a known narcotic target or or let's just say a user why would he have done [00:17:20] Speaker 3: that unfortunately most people don't understand that you have a constitutional right to deny consent to [00:17:27] Speaker 2: a search of the vehicle well he certainly would he'd gone through the system had been to prison before so i think if anybody understands it to be him right well i didn't know mr van so i wouldn't be able to speak to that sir well look no well let's take a step back i think you that may not be right you know that he has a criminal history correct sure that means he's been through this court system in some form correct yes okay relatively recently because he had gotten out of prison shortly before this i believe like a month before okay so he so he's somebody that you can reasonably infer understands that he has rights he told you for instance i know what you're trying to do when you say you smell meth correct correct correct okay so he's somebody who clearly is a little bit more informed than let's say josh emmanuel is that fair i would agree with that yes okay why would mr van before you've ever asked about a search agree to a search and get out of the car and leave that console door open if he had nothing there why would [00:18:19] Speaker 3: that have happened i don't believe i can offer an accurate explanation to the jury okay based on that what i was in mr van's head at the time okay you were in yours right yeah okay he was on his way to the [00:18:34] Speaker 2: auto shop isn't that right yes sir okay now mr trevor day i'd like to move on to him you say that you were able to observe mr day and mrs wood moving around in the front seat as they were taking a little bit longer than normal to stop the car is that right yes sir that is correct when you get mr day out of the car and ask him about the odor of marijuana he tells you yeah yeah he was very straightforward with that when miss wood gets out of the car she tells you as well correct that is correct yes they tell you where it is in the car don't they they do yes and that's not far from where you said that you found this bag that had other meth residue in it correct that is correct so they drew your attention to that area didn't they they did yes and they told you that there were drugs in that area right correct they were talking about marijuana but they're they're the ones who told you about it yes sir i like for mr van based on your observations why would mrs wood and mr day draw your attention to an area that had something in it extra than what they're already telling you in other words why would they be open and honest with you about the marijuana and then just have no information at all [00:20:09] Speaker 3: about the meth if that wasn't the case in their testimony i believe they said it best whenever they said that they were not aware of what methamphetamine looked like and mr day testified that his mother had previously owned the car that had a methamphetamine problem please understand when you're in constructive possession of narcotics whenever you were driving the vehicle you were in control of every single thing within that vehicle so mr williams there's a very good chance that mr day was unaware of the presence of methamphetamine but nonetheless after the vehicle search it was present why didn't you go find the mom and arrest her if you believe that was true mr williams you are an assistant state attorney i feel that that you should know this um the mom was not in possession of the vehicle at the time so how could i in a courtroom articulate probable cause for the arrest whenever mr day was the registered owner of the vehicle and he was in possession of the vehicle how could i arrest the mom sir you you claim that you [00:21:12] Speaker 2: believe you understand what constructive possession is uh you're aware that someone you're aware that it requires a knowledge element it can't be accidental possession you know that don't you okay you just told this jury that if mr day had it on the floor and didn't know it was there he can be charged with constructive possession that's not what constructive possession is is it and mr williams that is the great [00:21:33] Speaker 3: thing about the judicial system and that is a great thing about your job you were an assistant state attorney i was a deputy sheriff all i had to have was probable cause to make an arrest and then mr williams that was in all due respect for the state attorney's office to go through the facts of the [00:21:47] Speaker 2: case to present it to a jury well the facts as you understood them at the scene is you believe that it was accidental possession that's the what you just told this jury that you believed it was accidental yet [00:21:58] Speaker 3: you still arrested them for it after i read him his miranda rights and let me stop i believe it was after i read him his miranda rights about the conversation that took place with his mom i do not have the ability on the side of a road on the side of the road and on a traffic stop to go through every single story every single line of a story i had the probable cause to make the traffic stop i had the probable cause to make the arrest i effectuated that arrest and it was handed over to the judicial system of the 14th circuit mr wester you you know that you don't have to make an arrest [00:22:39] Speaker 2: at all on a traffic stop if there's not a clear indication of that you're arresting the right person that's what your training manual said correct that's what it says that you don't your job is not simply to arrest somebody it's to find the right person if that can be determined and arrest that [00:22:55] Speaker 3: person that's what the manual says correct and what and and i guess what you're alluding to mr williams [00:23:01] Speaker 2: i'm not alluding to it this was the state's exhibit let's start with this do you remember that exhibit your training manual yeah do you remember that portion that mr chris testified that he trained you on you demonstrated you understood that it was important to arrest the right person not just to arrest someone do you remember that part correct okay that's the part that i'm asking about it yeah [00:23:19] Speaker 3: and miss wood and mr day were in the front of the vehicle where the methamphetamine was recovered [00:23:25] Speaker 2: but you've already testified to this jury that according to you that your theory was that because mom had been in the car at some point and mom had been a meth user years before that even if they were an accidental possession that you went ahead and arrested them that was your theory that you testified to the jury about i did and here's the thing [00:23:47] Speaker 3: every time i pulled someone over if they said oh that's mom or that's dad's or that's my cousins there would never i can't say never the majority of the time there would not be an arrest made in a narcotics possession case most of the time they deny knowledge so mr williams you're you're presenting to this jury that in the first circuit where you work that if someone says that they didn't know about the narcotics you're just going to drop the case on every single narcotics charge that comes on your desk [00:24:13] Speaker 2: there you know that's not what i'm saying it sounds to me that's what you're saying okay well thank you for your input and i'll remind you as you're aware that i asked the questions you answer them sure okay are you you'll you'll agree to that i do agree with that yeah and you agree that you've testified to this jury that you didn't even believe that mr day and mrs wood knew about the meth on the [00:24:35] Speaker 3: floor but you still arrested them for it they were in the area where the methamphetamine was recovered so yes i did affect a probable cause arrest well you were too aren't you what you were in the area [00:24:47] Speaker 2: where the meth was recovered weren't you in fact you were the last person that was there when i was [00:24:51] Speaker 3: searching the vehicle that is correct before i found the methamphetamine yes okay according to your theory you're also uh subject to that as well aren't you um here's the thing i was in the lawful scope of my duty okay and i was um and on the traffic stop whenever you take possession of narcotics that you have seized you are technically in legal possession of that because it is in the scope of your duties [00:25:13] Speaker 2: at the time well that's if you really got it there that's what's at issue in this case isn't it that's your opinion mr williams now that is what is an issue in this case to this jury is to determine whether or not those drugs were really there or whether or not you put them there you would agree [00:25:27] Speaker 3: that is the issue right and i'm testifying to this jury today that the drugs were there i did not put [00:25:33] Speaker 2: the narcotics there we're well aware of what you testified for i'm asking do you agree that that's the issue so that logic would apply to you as well if you were someone who had last been there right [00:25:47] Speaker 3: any law enforcement officer that searches a vehicle and recovers narcotics they are going to be the last law enforcement officer that was in that area when the narcotics were recovered well what if we had a video [00:25:56] Speaker 2: of it for instance the day stop what if we had a video that showed you find those things in those [00:26:02] Speaker 3: areas sure and mr williams whenever you look at the day stop you can see when the video stops for whatever reason both of my hands are in plain view but you haven't found anything have you at the time that the video stops i'm not sure mr williams i don't i i want to say that at the time of the video stopping no i had not found anything okay fair enough [00:26:26] Speaker 2: and at that point after it stops but for the backup deputies video we wouldn't have anything else to show where you were going or what these people are saying isn't that right that is correct and that video shows you going back to your patrol car during the search before you've ever told them that you [00:26:47] Speaker 3: found methamphetamine isn't that right to retrieve my test kit box that is correct and whether you had found anything or not have you mr williams there is no policy and there is no state statute dictating that an officer has to do that during a traffic stop i agree i don't dispute that sure but you [00:27:02] Speaker 2: haven't told them that have you no i haven't okay so let's take the fear stop for example as soon as deputy day finds what he finds and brings it your attention on that video as soon as that happens you go back and you detain them and let them know about it correct correct correct okay so there are clearly instances where you're able to do that and bring it to people's attention right away true that that is correct now i'd like to ask you about the richard triggers okay stop like mr day like miss wood he admitted to marijuana didn't he yes sir he did he didn't dispute that camera with the traffic thing traffic incident was i think his headlights [00:27:50] Speaker 3: weren't working i believe he had one headlight yes sir he didn't argue with you about that did he no he did not [00:28:06] Speaker 2: you looked at his arms you don't see any track marks correct you you do notate that on the video correct yes sir of course it's a video we have from a patrol backup deputy isn't that right that is correct once again like mr day we don't have a video from you showing the search do we that is correct why not [00:28:34] Speaker 3: in the mr driggers video as you've all seen you will notice whenever i'm exiting my patrol car both of my hands can be seen the video stops i have no idea this was an ongoing issue as a matter of fact i had to get a new axon body camera issued to me because of similar um technological glitches [00:28:54] Speaker 2: so the technical technological glitch for mr driggers like mr emmanuel happened because or excuse me it happened to occur when you would have searched and it would have shown you find these things in these [00:29:11] Speaker 3: people's cars isn't that right it could have happened halfway through it could have happened at the end but the the the glitch that i experienced did happen after i had issued a written warning and it had finished printing out and i was exiting my patrol car and once again we're unable to actually see you [00:29:27] Speaker 2: find anything at all triggers arrest isn't that right yes sir that is correct in fact without uh deputy now trooper but uh maloney we wouldn't have anything other than your word correct that is correct and the driggers then we'll stay on triggers um but like all the others you would agree that it is an awesome and an incredible power to be in somebody's car searching it for something that could lead to a crime and they have no right to be in there and observe it you would [00:30:02] Speaker 3: agree with that correct it's a great responsibility yes your manual specifically draws your attention to [00:30:08] Speaker 2: that but you don't dispute that is that right that is correct mr clinney he told you he was on probation yes he did he told you what the charges were that is correct wouldn't you agree that the video demonstrates that in many ways he he is a remarkably open person i mean he's talking about medical stuff and all kinds of things on that video right he was very open that's correct very open okay you would agree that he was very direct with you that he had never seen that baggie before under that under that seat is that right yes sir that is correct okay and he told this jury that it wasn't under there until you were in that car isn't that right i may need you to rephrase that he told do you remember him telling this jury that it wasn't in he knew that it wasn't in that truck until after you had been in there and searched it isn't that right [00:31:14] Speaker 3: at the time of the stop or whenever he testified here the other day testified okay yes when he testified here the other day you are correct he didn't make that statement [00:31:23] Speaker 2: i think he also admitted he didn't have a valid driver's license i think he admitted he didn't have a seat belt on yes sir that is correct he admitted that his um his fiancee or girlfriend probably had smoking marijuana in the car recently isn't that right yes sir and again like mr triggers and like mr day we don't have a video from you showing the search of mr clinty's truck do we we do not you had a body camera clearly yes but we know that it wasn't on right um i would disagree with [00:32:06] Speaker 3: that the jury of um i guess about an hour and a half two hours ago saw on sergeant carlberg's body cam video where whenever narcotics investigator alan whenever me and him are beginning to talk i turned my body camera off so my body camera was on and it was active during that traffic stop well with that [00:32:24] Speaker 2: wouldn't you agree that what that exhibit demonstrates is that you said you were about to turn it off isn't [00:32:30] Speaker 3: that right mr williams i was there and i can tell you that it was on and that i turned it off [00:32:37] Speaker 2: you would agree that that exhibit demonstrates that you said let me turn this body camera off and then you do yes handle that body camera isn't that right for the purposes of the record yes sir the exhibit would demonstrate that we all understand that you say that it was working and that is when you turn it [00:32:56] Speaker 3: off but we don't actually have a video do we again once i upload the videos to the server what happens to those videos after they're uploaded i have no control over did someone delete it i wouldn't be able to testify to that sir i'm unaware [00:33:15] Speaker 4: what motivation would there be for some for some staff member to delete a whole video on an arrest [00:33:21] Speaker 3: right and action calls for speculation overruled and again as i testified earlier i would never sit here and say that any of the vehicles were i'm sorry any of the videos were deleted with an ill intention um sheriff's office at the time was very short staffed um sometimes there were inexperienced people taking care of the videos it could have just simply been deleted without them realizing what they were deleting but of course i am speculating at this point as to how that could have occurred [00:33:53] Speaker 2: if i said to say though that the backup deputies wasn't deleted and it exists correct that is correct and it was on before he even got out of the patrol car that is correct he wasn't even searching and his was on [00:34:04] Speaker 3: correct [00:34:08] Speaker 2: mr benjamin bowling's arrest we don't have a body camera video for either do we [00:34:22] Speaker 3: no sir we do not like mr clenny like mr driggers [00:34:32] Speaker 2: other people in this case he they consented to a search of that car he and uh mrs shelley is that right yes sir that's correct mr bowling even agreed with you that he believed he smelled marijuana sure he didn't try to deny that he smelled an odor of it is that right that is correct you heard their testimony that they saw you search the car briefly first in the driver's side is that right that's what they testified to correct and then they testified that they both saw you walk across behind the car on the way to the passenger side and that's when you got search gloves and put them on and it was only after that that you allegedly found methamphetamine [00:35:18] Speaker 3: that is what they testified to [00:35:22] Speaker 2: and we don't have a video in it why don't we have a video in it mr williams and during your [00:35:27] Speaker 3: investigation i'm sure you have found this out the 2017 videos um you claim that there are no videos videos from the year 2017. well what is your answer for that my answer is there was a body camera video it was uploaded to the server i believe at the time i still had a pro vision camera and once it was uploaded to the server it was up to the um whoever was in charge of taking care of that to take care of it [00:35:59] Speaker 2: okay so it's the same situation as it is in the um clinic for us is that right that is correct the [00:36:06] Speaker 3: clinic wasn't in 2017 he was in 18. that is correct and i had an axon body camera and as the video demonstrated the body camera was on and activated and recording for mr clinic yes sir we don't have that [00:36:20] Speaker 2: video that i mean that's what that's the issue is we don't have a video from bowling we don't have a video for clinty you mentioned the year 2017 having some significance but clinty is in 18. right and we [00:36:31] Speaker 3: don't have a video there either right and as the jury saw a couple hours ago from sergeant david carlberg's backup body cam video i turned my camera off we saw you move your hand i i've no one disputes [00:36:43] Speaker 2: that we saw on that video you move your hand and you said what you were doing with it correct that is correct all right now you said for mr driggers that it's not when he denied that the meth was his you said that it's not uncommon for people to deny something criminal that they're doing isn't that right you said that for mr triggers didn't you yes okay and that's why we have juries to decide whether or not that denials correct correct or not if it's supported by evidence as it should be in a criminal case isn't that right yes sir why we have juries and they should make that decision based on the evidence correct i would agree with that yes we come to um next to mrs teresa odom okay i'll let you get your report there so i know we'll probably spend an extra moment on this or so all right i think i'm ready mr williams let you get settled okay like several of the other listed victims in the case she consents to the search of her car doesn't she she does she does yes she mentions that she's got five dollars that's missing um in that in that video before you find anything isn't that right that is correct yes she's specifically drawing your attention to to her purse or her pocketbook because she's missing five dollars isn't that right correct yes she's not trying to take her purse with her when she gets out of the car and goes standing and stands with backup deputy haykay is she i don't believe so no video doesn't show and then the video doesn't depict it do you remember hearing it i do not remember it right so she didn't try to take her purse now you say you've testified on direct that you don't dispute that there's something in your hand like those photos the state's exhibits depict is that correct correct yeah i don't dispute that at all your dispute is that you say that it's not the same item that you charged teresa odin with correct correct it is not the same item right it was a different baggie is what you say correct correct okay where on your body camera video do we see you handle that baggie and either picking it up or putting it down or looking at it closely to determine what's in it [00:39:14] Speaker 3: are you referring to the baggie that was in my hand before i put my search gloves on yes sir okay so as you noticed on the video there were multiple semis multiple vehicles driving by in the opposite direction whenever i put that baggie in the front driver's side floorboard i never seen it again i'm not sure if it's because when a semi came through it blew it into the roadway after i found the baggie in her purse containing methamphetamine and after i found the spoon which was used as paraphernalia there was really no need for me to go walk across 231 at the busiest time of the day to try to find something that i didn't even know was evidentiary value or not [00:40:03] Speaker 2: why did you set it down on the floorboard if you didn't know if it had evidentiary value or not why did you set it down if it was already in your hand why would you set it down on the floorboard with that setting like you just described to the jury if you didn't even know if it had evidentiary value or not so that i could search the vehicle how about searching what's in your hand how about that wouldn't it make more wouldn't you agree that it would make more sense to start with what's already in your hand before you if if it indeed was a different thing that it would make more sense to start with what's already in your hand before you set it down on the [00:40:45] Speaker 3: floorboard on admittedly a busy road yeah in this particular case no that would not make sense because whenever i looked at the bag it did not appear as i testified earlier that it was a evidentiary [00:40:59] Speaker 2: value you don't look you you just said a moment ago to this jury that you didn't know if it had evidentiary value or not okay you just said that a moment ago and now you're saying that you already looked at it and it didn't have evidentiary value which one is it so as i just stated a couple seconds [00:41:14] Speaker 3: ago it did not appear to have evidentiary value i did not examine it i did not open it up at this point and examine it it did not appear to be of anything of evidentiary value at what point on that [00:41:28] Speaker 2: video do you have time or does it even show you looking at it to make some type of a reasonable inference [00:41:37] Speaker 3: as to whether or not it had evidentiary value sure so whenever i went to the passenger side of miss odom's truck from the passenger side you could pretty much see the whole front cabin of that vehicle whenever i looked across i noticed that that particular item that was in my hand was no longer on the driver's side floorboard didn't really concern me that much because i'd found methamphetamine in her purse and i had found the spoon like i said earlier mr wiggums i was not going to walk across highway 231 or shut down traffic to try to find something that was most likely just a piece of trash [00:42:17] Speaker 2: it was already in your hand and you made a conscious decision to set it on the floorboard didn't you i did yes did you or did you not look at it this is this is assuming that uh clearly we're disputing this okay that it's 100 we are absolutely okay yeah so your your testimony is that it was a different item and in order for you to put it on the ground you had to determine whether or not it had evidentiary value because it was already in your hand so from it going from your left hand onto the floorboard at what point you stop and look at it and handle it the way you do all the other exhibits that you found sure all the other videos to make that decision if that if it was indeed different okay i would not [00:42:57] Speaker 3: have opened up a baggie with my bare hands first of all i will say that um you're saying no no i'm [00:43:05] Speaker 2: sorry we need to we need to let me break that down it's already in your bare hands you've already picked it up in your bare hand correct okay so what difference is opening it up your bare hands gonna [00:43:13] Speaker 3: make but mr williams i didn't open it up and turn it inside out for the contents if there were any contents to get on my bare skin was it a clear baggie i believe it was an off-white baggie you could have seen inside it couldn't you i don't believe i could have with this particular baggy i don't believe i could have because from what i remember it was an off-white almost an eggshell white you can't give [00:43:34] Speaker 2: a consistent answer on this because there isn't a consistent answer correct i mean you you would you agree that you cannot tell this jury that this item that you say is different in your hand that you were ever able to determine clearly if it had evidentiary value or if you [00:43:52] Speaker 3: looked at it determined it did well i can tell you that whenever i retrieved it from the door latch area and let's remember i went to the door latch area because she opened the vehicle from the outside whenever i went to the door latch area and whenever i grabbed that baggie from the door latch area and brought it back it only takes about probably not even a full second to look at something and visually see what it looks like and sure i didn't have x-ray vision mr williams i couldn't scan the bag to see what was in there i'm just testifying to what took place on that traffic stop [00:44:30] Speaker 2: was it ever in your hand was it really was there anything different in your hand other than what you claimed you found in her purse was there even a second bag just tell the story was there was there [00:44:42] Speaker 3: ever even a different bag what are you asking are you asking if the bag that i recovered from the door latch was different than the bag from her purse i'm asking if there ever even was a second bag was there [00:44:54] Speaker 2: ever anything other than that bag same bag being palmed in your hand that you later put in her purse and [00:45:02] Speaker 3: acted like you found out of that purse okay so what you just presented to this jury is absolutely absurd and not [00:45:08] Speaker 1: factual at all stop ask the next question listen the question answer the question that's for the court reporter say we got to keep a transcript there's no way she can do it that way [00:45:20] Speaker 2: that's fair go ahead i owe you as every other witness that courtesy and the court reporter i will do my best mr wester your report doesn't document a second bag does it it does not the video never shows you speaking to deputy hey k about a second bag does it it does not or the female deputy who's later on scene does it it does not and you never mentioned a second bag to mr mrs odom [00:45:52] Speaker 3: do you no i do not [00:45:59] Speaker 2: now you've testified on direct that there was a long piece of hair on the bag that you pulled out of mrs odom's purse that had meth in it correct that is correct she had several hair brushes in there [00:46:13] Speaker 3: didn't she from what i recall i believe there were one or two yeah okay and the video shows what it [00:46:19] Speaker 2: shows correct that is correct okay now you say that the hair in addition to being on the outside of the bag was also inside the bag which was closed shut is that right that is what is depicted on the photograph correct okay and that's of course an item of evidence just like the video correct yes sir that's correct and you say that the hair was inside as well correct yes sir that is correct in in a possession case identity you know who who possessed it is clearly an issue correct yes you're aware that a hair would contain dna correct correct did you put that piece of hair into evidence did you uh when you submitted your methamphetamine and spoon in evidence did you put that hair into evidence as i testified [00:47:20] Speaker 3: earlier when mr davis was asking me questions yes sir i i want to make it clear i did not see the hair on the bag on the traffic stop it wasn't until we reviewed the video after the investigation in the photos that i observed the hair in the bag but answer your question mr williams if i would have seen a hair yes i would have put that in the evidence absolutely not in evidence though and i think i [00:47:43] Speaker 2: understand your explanation why you're saying you didn't realize it until this case was and you were reviewing the evidence correct yes sir that is correct understood understood so if that's the case you would not have an independent recollection as to whether that hair really is in that bag would you i'm basing my [00:48:00] Speaker 3: testimony off of what i saw on the photograph okay fair enough [00:48:07] Speaker 2: well likewise i believe you testified on direct about the spoon that it had some kind of some kind of burning on the bottom of it is that right um i believe that's correct yes do we have um does the video do you believe does it show the bottom of the spoon and show that burning [00:48:27] Speaker 3: at one point and i don't remember exactly in the video but i believe as i'm placing the spoon maybe into the evidence bag but at some point during the video yes you can see the bottom of the spoon and you can see black mark which is consistent with that of a burn mark you think that's on the video [00:48:46] Speaker 2: i believe so showing the burn mark i believe so did you choose to take any photographs of the spoon in this case yes those are not included in the case file are they i don't believe so okay and you're aware that the spoon is an item of evidence in this case it's in one of those boxes over there yes that's correct okay let's take a moment just so we're clear for the record we've already introduced it but nine c one through three are the seized items nine c one through three are the seized items for mrs ogham correct and one i'm going to have to rely on you for that mr williams i don't have that in front of me [00:49:33] Speaker 3: but that one of the seized items would be the spoon correct oh yes absolutely all right [00:49:56] Speaker 2: i'd like to ask you some questions now about mr fears james fears james fears [00:50:06] Speaker 3: okay [00:50:10] Speaker 2: now we saw the video and we've uh seen it again more recently because of uh deputy deputy um lee correct yes sir that's correct this morning earlier this morning and he testified that of course this this case we all know is a little bit different because this is the only one where we have another deputy who's actively searching right yes sir that's correct we agree on that and deputy lee said that he did direct your attention and asked you to come over to the back passenger side of the car right yes sir that's after you have been at the driver's side for a little bit beginning your search is that right yes sir that's correct okay so then you you see it on the video you do just that you go to the back passenger seat correct yes correct and you said that you reached under that seat and you were looking around in that area correct correct and you don't dispute that our view meaning the body camera view is blocked for a period of time yeah i don't dispute that at all you don't dispute being in that area reaching down and the camera being blocked for a period of time [00:51:23] Speaker 3: right reaching under the rear passenger seat that is correct okay [00:51:30] Speaker 2: and at that point no drugs or capsules or anything like that have been found correct not under the rear passenger seat that is correct well not have been found in the car yet correct right correct okay that's that's what i mean there i may have misunderstood you i apologize understood well then you return back to the driver's seat correct yes sir continued your search yes you move that seat forward correct yes the driver's side yes driver's side and that is when you directed deputy lee to slide the seat forward on hit the front passenger seat on his side correct correct and then that allowed him to look under that seat from the back passenger seat where you had previously been yes sir that is correct and it was only then for the first time that anybody finds any meth in that car correct that is correct after you'd already been in that area isn't that right correct behind the [00:52:32] Speaker 3: front passenger seat not directly behind it um it appeared as if there were several items of paper and there was even a clear tray i don't remember what was in the tray so he would have had to have moved [00:52:43] Speaker 2: that seat forward yeah you remember on that video you and um so mr smith ralph smith yes ralph smith correct and um deputy lee discussing whether or not jade fears his wife was going to be charged as well correct yes sir and you remember the sound all three of you agreed that quote it wouldn't have been nothing but for him meaning james fears the driver to have just done this right that is correct yes sir you would agree that the same logic applies for you though because you were in that same seat in that [00:53:21] Speaker 3: same area already reaching down correct i was not reaching anywhere close to where deputy lee found the item of paraphernalia narcotics again i reached under the rear passenger seat not the front passenger seat [00:53:38] Speaker 2: you would agree that we can't actually see that for ourselves on the video can we correct and whether or not it happened is what's at issue in the criminal case correct i would agree to that yes and just like for mr fears it wouldn't quote it wouldn't have been nothing for you to have reached your hand down just like mr fears correct you could have done it just as easily as he could have correct i'm going to disagree with that all right fair enough mrs kimberly hazelwood is one i'd like to ask about next yes sir all right and i'll ask for the same courtesy from you i'll just look at my notes here for a moment yes sir [00:54:37] Speaker ?: uh [00:54:53] Speaker 2: uh let's start with the canine alert okay i believe that was dylan jackson who ran uh canine solo is that right yes sir and we all see it sounds like we're all in agreement that there was a legitimate alert a passive alert at that point correct yes on the driver's side door yes sir we don't dispute that that was the only window that was open yes sir and we you recall the testimony from deputy jackson that the dog is alerted to the odor of narcotics correct that is correct it may or may not indicate the presence correct yeah sure it's just the odor that is correct okay and jeremy hazelwood was right there jeremy hazelwood was right there correct yes the window was down that was the only one yes you had also been there hadn't you on that driver's side i had and you had had your hands hands all over their driver's side window area as depicted on that video correct correct now you've testified that you saw kimberly hazelwood reach down and put that excedrin bottle in that trash bag is that right a white and color peel bottle yes where's that on the video [00:56:13] Speaker 3: so i have actually reviewed that part of the video that you're speaking of yes sir i believe that it was probably two or three times for me going to mr hazelwood side back to my patrol car and back up to mr hazelwood side during the course of that the body camera doesn't pick it up okay but whenever you look through the back window you will be surprised at how a body camera how it darkens things and you have to remember a body camera sees a narrow field of view it sees what it wants to see so i was able to see that with my eyes through that back glass why did you give her commands to stop [00:56:53] Speaker 2: for officer safety it didn't around because it was not a firearm it wasn't how do you how would you know [00:57:00] Speaker 3: mr williams and in all due respect i have never seen a firearm that resembled a pill bottle [00:57:05] Speaker 2: what was in the trash bag had you gone through that yet to see what was in that no what about under the seat had you gone through that to see what was in that no sir i had not what about you know horrible as it is to think about what about in the diaper bag correct yeah officer safety is always a concern as it should be yes for any deputy roadside yes correct that's addressed in the manual as well isn't it that is correct you say that you saw her making those kind of movements down around the floor now why didn't you give her commands to stop or get [00:57:44] Speaker 3: out of the car if that's what you saw she didn't appear to be a threat to my safety or anyone else's safety at the time what about her husband i did not observe mr hazelwood make any furtive movements [00:57:57] Speaker 2: what what if she had had a weapon like a firearm or a knife are you asking what would that have was that something that would be on your mind for officer safety you're obviously a large physical person yes five large framed she's not right we all saw that but if someone smaller than you potentially had a weapon whatever it may be that would still be a [00:58:25] Speaker 3: concern to you wouldn't it absolutely particularly roadside yeah any anyone with a weapon for that [00:58:30] Speaker 2: matter would be a concern so if you saw her make those movements and you were trained on that concern and you knew about that concern why didn't you give her directions to either get out of the car [00:58:41] Speaker 3: right away or put her hands up where you could see them sure well mr williams whenever she placed that white and color bottle in the bag and whenever she retracted her hand and nothing was in her hand i still at that point did not perceive her as a threat okay and why didn't you immediately say [00:59:00] Speaker 2: stop moving your hands what did you put in that bag take that pill bottle out why didn't you why [00:59:05] Speaker 3: didn't you do that then that there wasn't necessarily a reason to you did for mrs odom when [00:59:11] Speaker 2: you thought you saw a straw you asked her quickly twice in a row what's that what's that straw correct okay so you clearly have the capability sure and it was on your mind in another stop not all that different [00:59:28] Speaker 3: sure but every every traffic stop is different and unique in its own way yeah this one had more people in the car too didn't it it did and had two small children in the back [00:59:42] Speaker 2: when you started your search you didn't start it right at that trash bag in that excedrin bottle did you i did not if that's the if that's what you saw her moving towards and that's what you saw her handling in that way why didn't you start your search immediately in that area well i had to search [01:00:03] Speaker 3: everything in the vehicle especially in the front area yes sir um there would have not necessarily been a reason for me to go directly to that pill bottle all occupant you saw her handle mr wester your honor i wasn't finished answering my i didn't finish yes sir um no one was going to come up and just grab that yellow bag and take the and take the pill bottle all right um all occupants of the vehicle they were safe they were secured so i was not necessarily in a rush to search that pill bottle it was there in front of me it's not like it was across the vehicle in the back hatch it was still in my general vicinity [01:00:46] Speaker 2: it was the last thing you saw her handle correct correct and at that point you had already made the observation on the video that she looks like she's tripping out and a total change and those types of things that is correct is there some reason you would have you would have conducted that search in a less efficient way rather than go directly to this area that you allegedly saw her put that [01:01:10] Speaker 3: bottle okay well you have to understand just because i make a notation that i saw her put the bottle there i'm not implying that there at the time whenever i observed it i'm not implying that there was any criminal activity taking place all right so let's say mr williams for example if i would have went directly to the bottle and saw the suspected methamphetamine i would have still had to finish searching everything in that vehicle i agree with that right but wouldn't you conduct your search [01:01:43] Speaker 2: in the most efficient in the most in the best way mr wester i mean that was the last place that you had seen her move and you you it clearly was important enough for you to notice it if it happened [01:01:58] Speaker 3: but you didn't start your search there but that is why i started my search on the front passenger [01:02:04] Speaker 2: side of the vehicle when you did look in that excedrin bottle in the video you didn't look very long did you [01:02:14] Speaker 3: right as i testified earlier you can look at something it probably doesn't take a second for you to [01:02:18] Speaker 2: visualize what is what is in a bottle or what something looks like and you didn't say anything about [01:02:28] Speaker 3: what you had seen in the bottle during the video did you um i i did actually um whenever i make the comment of let me put this here and i put the bottle in the front seat at that point i was retaining [01:02:40] Speaker 2: that for evidentiary purpose yes sir but that was after you had already put the top back on the bottle [01:02:44] Speaker 3: and put it back in the back wasn't it correct so at first i was contemplating on admitting the entire yellow plastic bag into evidence per policy um actually let me back up it may not be per policy but with the way i was trained um if you found something in one bag technically you could take the bag put that into evidence as well as what you found in the bag but i thought about it for a few seconds and i was not going to bother miss watson with putting in a whole trash bag full of trash into evidence so that's why i retrieved the bag i'm sorry the bottle from that bag [01:03:20] Speaker 2: you put it back in a trash bag close the lid and then in that amount of time you changed your mind about entering an entire trash bag into evidence [01:03:31] Speaker 3: yes sir and if i would not have closed the lid the suspected methamphetamine would have fallen out of [01:03:36] Speaker 2: the bottle of course we agree with that but there was also a lid on the bottle wasn't there sure okay and you closed the lid you could have set it at that point right on the dashboard right but instead i set it on the seat right in front of me okay i'm asking about when you put it back in the trash bag at that point the only thing you would opened up and looked in there and say that you saw something was one excedrin bottle there was no other suspected paraphernalia or narcotics that you had seen in that trash bag at that point correct i would agree with that yes all right but you chose to put the bottle after the lid was on it back in that trash bag or however long the video depicts until you pulled it back out [01:04:18] Speaker 3: correct did you open every bottle in that car i can't say that i opened every single pill bottle but i do remember opening a few bottles i don't know if i opened every single one though [01:04:33] Speaker 2: now let's jump ahead and then we'll go back yes sir but um we're going to stay on hazelwood i'll say that oh okay um i want to move ahead to when you found it and uh i'll told mr and mrs hazelwood that you found it okay and then what they told you they [01:04:52] Speaker 3: said that they had been to some family yeah i believe they had been in walsall yes sir [01:04:58] Speaker 2: mrs hazelwood's mom yes thank you and then you asked about hey is there anybody else is there any other person who's been in the car that's something you asked nearly all of these people correct that is correct okay and when you asked them that they both told you the same thing where they had come from correct correct all right and they um after you're asking them that could it have been anybody else those people use drugs they've told you and they've told this jury that uh miss hazelwood's sister used to have a drug problem right and this guy she was with at the time daniel and that they had used [01:05:39] Speaker 3: drugs in the past correct yes sir that is correct okay [01:05:50] Speaker 2: and you did make the statement of this jury that this particular stop more than any other i believe is how you said it has had an impact on you because of the children and the involved in that correct [01:06:02] Speaker 3: especially the emotion of miss hazelwood yes [01:06:07] Speaker 2: why didn't you just do an investigation or some follow-up on the sister and daniel if if they were possibly the source if you believe that were true in any way [01:06:22] Speaker 3: why wouldn't you follow up on that it was out of my jurisdiction where um and forgive me i forget the names you just mentioned off i'll just refer to the relatives they were out of my jurisdiction and again i'll go back to what i said earlier um very common for someone to to deny narcotics and try to put the blame on someone else and that is why you hear me and see me as soon as someone denies narcotics most of the time i will be like wait is anybody else in the vehicle with you was anybody else in the vehicle with you that's not necessarily an investigative technique trying to build rapport with that person but to answer your question again it was out of my jurisdiction i had probable cause to make the arrest and i made the arrest on miss hazelwood could it also be that [01:07:10] Speaker 2: when you're asking these people that that you're trying to dispel their suspicion of the last person [01:07:15] Speaker 3: who was in their car it would be you i would not agree with that at all no you told this jury that [01:07:22] Speaker 2: you're asking them about other people who could have been in the car even though that's not really a concern of yours you don't really care about that answer because it's just about building rapport [01:07:32] Speaker 3: correct i would disagree with that as well because there have been times where confidential informants have been made out of conversations like that but to answer your question directly yes i do care about who else has been in the vehicle why didn't you follow up on it in any of these all right miss hazel when [01:07:55] Speaker 2: you say these people are in different jurisdiction but in any of these people that you asked who have testified that you know on the video you see it you see them offer up somebody sure um in [01:08:06] Speaker 3: in the stephen van video that was followed up on regarding um crystal anybody else anybody else anybody else nobody not that i can recall no sir you just arrested these people [01:08:26] Speaker 2: correct yes and you didn't notate in any one of their reports the people who asked that it be dna tested fingerprinted or that they had even offered to provide a drug side urine test and we all know that you can't that's unreasonable respect to patrol death you do that roads roadside we all get that but you did not document those requests of those people in your reports did you i did not i was told [01:08:56] Speaker 3: at the time again this is a year 2016 to 2018 that the fdly crime laboratory was limited on what they would accept as a matter of fact when we had a couple of homicides they even limited the items that they would receive for a homicide investigation you told some of these people in the report that [01:09:15] Speaker 2: i can notate it fdly may or may not do it isn't that right that is correct but you didn't notate it [01:09:20] Speaker 3: in the reports did you not in the complaint or the investigative report that is correct okay [01:09:34] Speaker 2: besides it you know being done because in fairness you don't know if fdly is going to do it or not i agree with sure yes sir but besides whether or not it was done it would also have another purpose don't you think of documenting it in the report it is a statement of probable cause correct it is yes and it's relied on by people here in the court system for whatever is going to happen with that criminal case correct that is correct don't you think it would be relevant for those people to be able to read in that report that people who are arrested immediately at the time of the search requested that it be printed or that there be dna testing or that they had even offered whether it was feasible or not to do a drug test at that moment i would agree with that yes but you chose not to include that in your [01:10:29] Speaker 3: reports isn't that right right and that's why a copy of body camera footage is included with each report that's sent to the state attorney's office for their review not all of them correct there's several [01:10:40] Speaker 2: people in this sure okay i would agree all right um mrs penn and mr shaw all right let me get there okay all right you said that the reason for the missing syringe and then just for record purposes we have we'll say again that mr shaw and mrs penn only related to opportunity they were not charged victims and are not to be considered yes sir so regarding the missing syringe that did not make into evidence you say that was because mr shaw said he was like he was insulin or diabetic that played a part into it yes you included other unused syringes though didn't you in evidence yes sir because they were in close [01:11:31] Speaker 3: proximity to crystal methamphetamine well [01:11:40] Speaker 2: technically they all were weren't they i mean no single syringe was isolated they all were at least next to one that according to you would have even field tested positive for meth right i would agree with that okay so they all they all were in close proximity they were all together yes the two separate locations but they were grouped and the same different sides of the vehicle yes sir all right um going back to miss hazelwood for one moment and then we'll switch to the your patrol car yes sir um i have some questions about the field test on mrs hazelwood okay i'll let you get settled there yeah go ahead we saw the field test on this video correct yes we did you would agree that it was very quick wouldn't you almost instant yes right i think i think you even described it that way on direct yes instant okay it was a lot different than the one that was on the [01:12:39] Speaker 3: fears video wasn't it correct if i recall the fears um did not return an instant presumptive positive [01:12:49] Speaker 2: it did change color it did yes um but hazelwood almost instant we don't actually see the color change on the video do we [01:13:02] Speaker 3: from what i recall i believe that the test kit was out of sight of my body camera angle or view [01:13:12] Speaker 2: and you didn't show it to kimberly hazelwood did you i did not and you didn't show it to jeremy hazelwood did you i did not and you didn't show them the meth that you say was in the excedrin bottle did you [01:13:28] Speaker 3: right i didn't want it to be a spectacle for the kids to have to observe their mom go to jail so i was trying to keep things streamlined and efficient as possible totally understand [01:13:40] Speaker 2: but when she's in the back of your patrol car and you're opening the door and speak to her that wouldn't be a spectacle would it if you were to show her the field test kit at that point possibly not and it wouldn't be a spectacle for you to just open that bottle lid and show her the inside [01:13:55] Speaker 3: of it possibly not but again i'm unaware of any policy or state statute that would dictate that an [01:14:00] Speaker 2: officer do that i'm in no way suggesting that there's okay i just wanted i'm merely asking you about that one in particular because there are other videos we see where you where you clearly show yes that is correct a field test kit isn't that right yes sir and where you clearly you show them the item that is correct odom fears driggers van [01:14:26] Speaker 3: none of those involve small children though mr williams right but the children [01:14:32] Speaker 2: aren't right there with you the whole time in fact they're separated from you most of the time aren't they and you speak with mr hazlewood one-on-one correct yes and the children are not right there [01:14:45] Speaker 3: correct i believe that we let the air condition continue running while i spoke with mr hazlewood [01:14:50] Speaker 2: and that little boy wouldn't have been able to know what that little field test kit was if you were to just show it to his dad right and at the time um i wasn't thinking about that they were asking you you know that they were expressing that they didn't know of anything in there and that they've never touched she's never touched meth in our life and they're expressing disbelief about it to you correct they were yes but you chose not to show them what you say was in that excedrin bottle or the field test kit [01:15:31] Speaker 3: from it correct correct and once it was logged into evidence it would have been made available to [01:15:37] Speaker 2: them in the discovery process right in order for it to get logged into evidence though it goes the bottle would go from the back of your car to the evidence section at the sheriff's office correct yes let's go now to the back of your car okay okay we come to september of 2018 to search your patrol car yes sir do you dispute what was found in the patrol car during the search that we saw in this case did you ask if i dispute what was found you dispute that it was found in there in that [01:16:18] Speaker 3: location i don't dispute that at all no what what i do dispute though mr williams is the placement of the items recovered in the front passenger seat caddy okay as i testified earlier whenever i left the vehicle it was in a different location where was it let's let's pick up there then okay so the test kit the two i believe there were two evidence vials and there were one or two baggies the two baggies were inside of an evidence file the test kit the canister and a black evidence glove i believe there were a pair of black evidence gloves were left on the center printer console and i believe you [01:16:57] Speaker 2: may have been able to see it in the video okay i think i think i've got that then um you don't dispute that the field test kit was in that area and in the front seat i don't dispute that do you [01:17:12] Speaker 3: dispute that it already had methamphetamine in it i was in the process of of testing the item so i i wouldn't i believe have a good basis to dispute that no sir but there was no q-tip swab in there correct correct there should if there should have been actual product not a q-tip swab okay and there [01:17:35] Speaker 2: were no broken up i call them ampules i don't know if that's right that's what i call them as well ampules okay there were none of those in there broken or unbroken correct from what i've seen on the video that is correct do you dispute that that could be characterized as pre-loaded in other words there's some item in there before it's ever actually activated and is being used [01:18:01] Speaker 3: i do dispute that 100 as we saw in the video we saw that the test kit didn't have the forgive me it may be two it may be three ampules i don't remember how many those test kits had wouldn't have been the first time that happened there have been times on a traffic stop where i have either put a sterile swab where i've put content into the test kit and went to break it and there were no ampules in there but to get back to your actual question about pre-loaded and i don't want to are you suggesting that it was pre-loaded for that test kit to be used at a later [01:18:38] Speaker 2: date without any ampules well i'm asking let me ask it this way yeah i mean you would agree that there's what we now know is methamphetamine in that little plastic sleeve correct yes before any field test kit has actually been done correct yes sir correct right there with your gloves in the front of your patrol car correct and there's also a canister a clear canister with what we now know is methamphetamine there as well correct correct unlabeled correct no case number or any type of identifier on them correct [01:19:19] Speaker 3: as i testified earlier i was in the process of separating the narcotics from the paraphernalia [01:19:25] Speaker 2: were these the same narcotics that you said you found at some park in alford the alford recreational park okay and it was in a men's room correct men's restroom why didn't you just process those items [01:19:38] Speaker 3: there well mr williams as i testified earlier a call came in for a serious traffic crash on i-10 and then whenever i concluded that traffic crash i was dispatched to another traffic crash from the best of my memory it seems like bad thunderstorms were coming through that day and i think that was the result of the um i think that's what calls the traffic crashes okay well once you get back to the [01:20:01] Speaker 2: sheriff's office why'd you you know it was a lot of a lot of material multiple items canisters pipes knives that's a lot of evidence to go through isn't it it is quite a bit yes why would you choose to do [01:20:20] Speaker 3: that in the front seat of your patrol car because my thermal printer and my computer we're right there the my patrol car served as my office space it was very seldom that i would go to what what we're what you're referring to as the squad room that i would go to the squad room to process evidence um whenever i would finish processing the evidence of my patrol car printing everything off from my thermal printer then i would go to the squad room make sure the bags were filled out properly make sure everything was taped with evidence tape and then place it into an evidence locker but this [01:20:54] Speaker 2: wasn't an if if it indeed was a seizure this was not an ordinary seizure this would have been one of the largest drug seizures of your career at jackson county correct honestly it's the largest but it would have been one of the largest ones it yes it would not have been an ordinary seizure correct but it was okay what reports are there that demonstrate you being called to that location or are you reporting that [01:21:28] Speaker 3: you found something at that location yeah so whenever i was placed on suspension i did submit a foyer request which is a public records request to the sheriff's office request requesting a mirror image of my [01:21:41] Speaker 2: computer from that day mr wester are there let me start with it the cad reports you're aware of how he testified mr captain arnold about cad reports and what purpose they serve correct correct but he also [01:21:54] Speaker 3: failed to mention the numerous issues we have had with cad reports whenever a deputy would go in to process [01:22:00] Speaker 2: air reports and the case number would completely be missing okay well there's no cab at all for you on that date that documents any recovered property or a seizure is there you have cab reports from that day so clearly they're working but there's none for what you're saying occurred is there right and and there's no dispatch record is there okay for you on that day documenting any kind of a seizure any kind of recovery like you say happened is there yes or no correct all right and we don't have a body camera video of you finding that either do we my body camera when i was placed on [01:22:48] Speaker 3: suspension was handed over to lieutenant hodges okay mr hodges again mr hodges recommended you for this [01:22:55] Speaker 1: job didn't he correct but for the job right but after i after i arrested mr emmanuel what's the question ask him the question listen to the question answer the question your attorney's gonna have the ability [01:23:07] Speaker 2: to ask you any questions after this yes sir did mr hodges recommend you for that job at jackson county sheriff's office i believe so and you're aware that mr hodges made a career out of working at jackson [01:23:24] Speaker 3: county sheriff's office correct i believe he retired yes yes a career mr hodges is still [01:23:32] Speaker 2: is now civilian but he's still a member of this community isn't that right i wouldn't be able to answer that if you think it's going to be more than ten we're going to take a recess i think it's going to be short [01:24:02] Speaker 1: mr davis you want to break before any uh redirect or you want to go ahead with your redirect at this time if it's going to be less than 10 minutes we'll go ahead if you think it's going [01:24:09] Speaker 5: to be more than 10 we're going to take a recess i think it's going to be short okay let's get it done thank you good afternoon again mr wester good afternoon just want to hit a couple of points with you um mr williams was asking about the stop of reginald williams and he referred to this hidden compartment and he used your words from earlier yes sir um now is this something that was kind of an after factory little thing or was it more what we were talking about earlier like a zippered area [01:24:47] Speaker 3: where like maybe a cold pack would go yeah it was a zippered area underneath the lunchbox where a one of the square slender cold packs could slide into and that's what i was referring to as a hidden [01:24:58] Speaker 5: compartment and just like when we saw when you were searching the uh the truck of in the pen and shawl video there was a some point a lunchbox and you kind of pull open the little side things and so that's what you would do with a container like that correct that is correct um okay on stephen van um mr williams was asking making a point about you being on the passenger side and looking into that console with it up and kind of facing you but again you're the car was parked on an angle correct correct you're six five correct you're leaning in you can see into that correct yes i probably would have been able to probably wouldn't have and the driver's side is on the road side as well correct yes so there's traffic coming by yes sir that's correct so it might be a little safer for you to be on the passenger side correct correct joshua clenny mr williams was asked was saying that mr clenny was being very honest with you he was telling you about what was going on with his girlfriend sure and in fact we even saw him on the video he claims to be the most honest person in the world but it was also shown he has been convicted of crimes of dishonesty correct yes sir that is correct with teresa odom that first bag that you find that we see in your hand did it feel like there was anything in it no it didn't feel like anything was in it at all so did that help you start to maybe think that there was no evidentiary value to it that is correct and mrs hazelwood when you were describing her moving around that bag and mr williams asking well why didn't you tell her stop yell at her did you think you she was gonna get in a shootout i didn't think that not for one second have you as on in your job as a deputy have you encountered violent people yes most definitely did you think miss hazelwood was a violent person not at all in fact your observations that you were making and what you talk about on the video is you thought she appeared to maybe have had used methamphetamine before based on her features correct that is correct and was that also based based on your training and experience yes and mr williams also asked you about people asking about dna testing and fingerprinting and things like that is that your responsibility to send things to fdly for dna testing or fingerprinting no not at all so isn't that usually the prosecutor that does that yes sir that's correct and then the syringe with pen and shawl and the point that the state is trying to make with that is that it was an opportunity for you to source a syringe couldn't you have just as easily gone to a drugstore and bought a box of syringes for a bag of people or a bag of them yeah yeah i mean if we want to think about it what the state's trying to allege this thing and and getting back to the search of the car yes sir mr williams asked you some questions about that and you testified and you answered his questions you do not dispute any of those items were found in your patrol car correct correct correct and you're saying that they were all placed there legitimately during the course of your duties yes and in fact we even missed a couple of items to talk about didn't we yes sir we did okay there was also in the video in an evidence we saw there was a couple of beer cans yes tell us about the beer cans the beer cans [01:29:53] Speaker 3: that were in the plastic evidence bag they were recovered from a burglary call on the morning of august 1st which would have been my last day technically at the sheriff's office both that call and the call from alford park were placed in a suspend status the day that i was placed on suspension i never had a chance to process the beer cans either and then there was also [01:30:20] Speaker 5: testimony about some marijuana that was found in your first aid bag yes sir how did that get there [01:30:27] Speaker 3: i have no idea um i don't recall ever placing a prescription bottle with the contents inside of that red first aid bag by no means am i alleging that someone placed them there that's not what i'm alleging i'm just saying i don't ever remember that so you have no recollection [01:30:49] Speaker 5: as to how that may have gotten in there no sir but if you would have placed it in your car at some point would it have been during the course of your duties yeah it would have been from a lawful encounter okay so that wasn't your personal marijuana was it no sir okay and that wasn't something that you were planning on planning on somebody later was it [01:31:08] Speaker 3: absolutely not [01:31:13] Speaker 1: nothing further thank you mr williams all right mr wester you can step down sir thank you yes sir all right jurors it is uh mr wester steps down and gets this stuff together let me talk to you really quick about how we're going to proceed this afternoon it's 3 10. got a little bit more we need to take care of this afternoon i'm going to try to get you out of here at a decent hour uh if you'll be back in here or in the jury room at 3 25 again you are not in deliberations yet you're not taught with each other or anybody else for doing any research about this case the only evidence testimony you can receive is in this courtroom uh wear your name badges but leave your notebooks in your chairs and we'll see you back in the jury room at 3 25. all rise