Final Presidential Debate 2012 Complete - Mitt Romney, Barack Obama on Foreign Policy

[0:00] Good evening from the campus of Lynn University here in Boca Raton, Florida. [0:05] This is the fourth and last debate of the 2012 campaign brought to you by the Commission on [0:11] Presidential Debates. This one's on foreign policy. I'm Bob Schieffer of CBS News. The questions are [0:17] mine, and I have not shared them with the candidates or their aides. The audience has [0:23] taken a vow of silence. No applause, no reaction of any kind except right now when we welcome [0:30] President Barack Obama and Governor Mitt Romney. Gentlemen, your campaigns have agreed to certain [1:07] rules, and they are simple. They've asked me to divide the evening into segments. I'll pose a [1:12] question at the beginning of each segment. You will each have two minutes to respond, and then we will [1:18] have a general discussion until we move to the next segment. Tonight's debate, as both of you [1:24] know, comes on the 50th anniversary of the night that President Kennedy told the world that the [1:30] Soviet Union had installed nuclear missiles in Cuba, perhaps the closest we've ever come to this [1:37] nuclear war. And it is a sobering reminder that every president faces at some point an unexpected [1:44] threat to our national security from abroad. So let's begin. The first segment is the challenge [1:51] of a changing Middle East and the new face of terrorism. I'm going to put this into two segments, [1:58] so you'll have two topic questions within this one segment on the subject. The first question, [2:06] and it concerns Libya. The controversy over what happened there continues. Four Americans are dead, [2:13] including an American ambassador. Questions remain. What happened? What caused it? Was it spontaneous? [2:21] Was it an intelligence failure? Was it a policy failure? Was there an attempt to mislead people [2:28] about what really happened? Governor Romney, you said this was an example of an American policy in [2:33] the Middle East that is unraveling before our very eyes. I'd like to hear each of you give your thoughts [2:41] on that. Governor Romney, you won the toss. You go first. Thank you, Bob, and thank you for agreeing to [2:47] moderate this debate this evening. Thank you to Lynn University for welcoming us here. And Mr. President, [2:52] it's good to be with you again. We were together at a humorous event a little earlier, and it's nice to [2:57] maybe be funny this time, not on purpose. We'll see what happens. This is obviously an area of great [3:04] concern to the entire world and to America in particular, which is to see a complete change in [3:10] the structure and the environment in the Middle East. With the Arab Spring came a great deal of hope [3:17] that there would be a change towards more moderation, an opportunity for greater participation on the [3:23] part of women in public life and in economic life in the Middle East. But instead, we've seen in [3:30] nation after nation a number of disturbing events. Of course, we see in Syria 30,000 civilians having been [3:36] killed by the military there. We see in Libya an attack apparently by, I think we know now, by terrorists [3:44] of some kind against our people there, four people dead. Our hearts and minds go to them. Mali has been [3:51] taken over, the northern part of Mali, by al-Qaeda-type individuals. We have in Egypt a Muslim Brotherhood [3:58] president. And so what we're seeing is a pretty dramatic reversal in the kind of hopes we had for that [4:04] region. And of course, the greatest threat of all is Iran, four years closer to a nuclear weapon. [4:09] And we're going to have to recognize that we have to do as the president has done. I congratulate him [4:15] on taking out Osama bin Laden and going after the leadership in al-Qaeda. But we can't kill our way [4:21] out of this mess. We're going to have to put in place a very comprehensive and robust strategy [4:27] to help the world of Islam and other parts of the world reject this radical, violent extremism, [4:33] which is, it's really not on the run. It's really not hiding. This is a group that is now involved [4:40] in 10 or 12 countries. And it presents an enormous threat to our friends, to the world, to America [4:46] long-term. And we must have a comprehensive strategy to help reject this kind of extremism. [4:52] Mr. President. [4:53] Well, my first job as Commander-in-Chief Bob is to keep the American people safe. And that's [4:58] what we've done over the last four years. We ended the war in Iraq, refocused our attention on those [5:04] who actually killed us on 9-11. And as a consequence, al-Qaeda's core leadership has been decimated. [5:12] In addition, we're now able to transition out of Afghanistan in a responsible way, making sure [5:19] that Afghans take responsibility for their own security. And that allows us also to rebuild [5:26] alliances and make friends around the world to combat future threats. Now, with respect to Libya, [5:35] as I indicated in the last debate, when we received that phone call, I immediately made sure that, [5:41] number one, we did everything we could to secure those Americans who were still in harm's way. [5:47] Number two, that we would investigate exactly what happened. And number three, most importantly, [5:51] that we would go after those who killed Americans and we would bring them to justice. And that's [5:56] exactly what we're going to do. But I think it's important to step back and think about [6:00] what happened in Libya. Now, keep in mind that I and Americans took leadership in organizing an [6:08] international coalition that made sure that we were able to, without putting troops on the ground, [6:14] at the cost of less than what we spent in two weeks in Iraq, liberate a country that had been under the [6:20] yoke of dictatorship for 40 years, got rid of a despot who had killed Americans. And as a consequence, [6:28] despite this tragedy, you had tens of thousands of Libyans, after the events in Benghazi, [6:34] marching and saying, America is our friend. We stand with them. Now, that represents the opportunity [6:41] we have to take advantage of. And Governor Romney, I'm glad that you agree that we have been successful [6:48] in going after Al Qaeda. But I have to tell you that, you know, your strategy previously has been [6:55] one that has been all over the map and is not designed to keep Americans safe or to build on the [7:00] opportunities that exist in the Middle East. Well, my strategy is pretty straightforward, [7:05] which is to go after the bad guys, to make sure we do our very best to interrupt them, to kill them, [7:11] to take them out of the picture. But my strategy is broader than that. That's important, of course. [7:18] But the key that we're going to have to pursue is a pathway to get the Muslim world to be able to [7:23] reject extremism on its own. We don't want another Iraq. We don't want another Afghanistan. That's not the [7:28] right course for us. The right course for us is to make sure that we go after the people who are [7:33] leaders of these various anti-American groups and these jihadists, but also help the Muslim world. [7:39] And how do we do that? The group of Arab scholars came together, organized by the UN, to look at how [7:44] we can help the world reject these terrorists. And the answer they came up with was this, one more [7:50] economic development. We should key our foreign aid, our direct foreign investment, and that of our [7:55] friends, we should coordinate it to make sure that we push back and give them more economic development. [8:01] Number two, better education. Number three, gender equality. Number four, the rule of law. [8:06] We have to help these nations create civil societies. But what's been happening over the last [8:11] couple of years is as we've watched this tumult in the Middle East, this rising tide of chaos occur, [8:18] you see al-Qaeda rushing in. You see other jihadist groups rushing in. And they're throughout [8:23] many nations in the Middle East. It's wonderful that Libya seems to be making some progress, [8:28] despite this terrible tragedy. But next door, of course, we have Egypt. Libya's six million [8:33] population. Egypt, 80 million population. We want to make sure that we're seeing progress throughout [8:38] the Middle East with Mali now having North Mali taken over by al-Qaeda, with Syria having Assad [8:45] continuing to assassinate or to kill, to murder his own people. This is a region in tumult. And of course, [8:51] Iran on the path to a nuclear weapon. We've got real problems in the region. [8:55] We'll get to that, but let's give the president a chance. [8:57] Governor Romney, I'm glad that you recognize that al-Qaeda is a threat. Because a few months ago, [9:02] when you were asked what's the biggest geopolitical threat facing America, you said Russia. [9:06] Not al-Qaeda. You said Russia. And the 1980s are now calling to ask for their foreign policy back. [9:12] Because, you know, the Cold War has been over for 20 years. But Governor, you know, when it comes to [9:18] our foreign policy, you seem to want to import the foreign policies of the 1980s, just like the [9:24] social policies of the 1950s and the economic policies of the 1920s. You say that you're not [9:30] interested in duplicating what happened in Iraq. But just a few weeks ago, you said you think we [9:36] should have more troops in Iraq right now. And the challenge we have, I know you haven't been in a [9:41] position to actually execute foreign policy. But every time you've offered an opinion, [9:48] you've been wrong. You said we should have gone into Iraq, despite the fact that there were no [9:53] weapons of mass destruction. You said that we should still have troops in Iraq to this day. [10:00] You indicated that we shouldn't be passing nuclear treaties with Russia, despite the fact that 71 [10:08] senators, Democrats and Republicans voted for it. You said that first we should not have a timeline [10:16] in Afghanistan. Then you said we should. Now you say maybe, or it depends, which means not only [10:22] were you wrong, but you're also confusing and sending mixed messages both to our troops and our allies. [10:27] So what we need to do with respect to the Middle East is strong, steady leadership, not wrong and [10:35] reckless leadership that is all over the map. And unfortunately, that's the kind of opinions that [10:41] you've offered throughout this campaign. And it is not a recipe for American strength or keeping [10:47] America safe over the long term. I'm going to add a couple of minutes here to give you a chance to [10:51] respond. Well, of course, I don't concur with what the president said about my own record and the [10:56] things that I've said. They don't happen to be accurate. But I can say this, that we're talking about [11:02] the Middle East and how to help the Middle East reject the kind of terrorism we're seeing and the [11:06] rising tide of tumult and confusion. And attacking me is not an agenda. Attacking me is not talking [11:14] about how we're going to deal with the challenges that exist in the Middle East and take advantage of [11:17] the opportunity there and stem the tide of this violence. But I'll respond to a couple of things [11:23] you mentioned. First of all, Russia, I indicated, is a geopolitical foe. Excuse me. It's a geopolitical foe. [11:31] And I said in the same in the same paragraph, I said, and Iran is the greatest national security [11:35] threat we face. Russia does continue to battle us in the UN time and time again. I have clear eyes [11:41] on this. I'm not going to wear rose colored glasses when it comes to Russia or Mr. Putin. [11:45] And I'm certainly not going to say to him, I'll give him more flexibility after the election. [11:50] After the election, he'll get more backbone. Number two, with regards to Iraq, you and I agreed, [11:55] I believe that there should have been a status of forces agreement. Did you? Oh, you didn't? You didn't [11:59] want a status of forces agreement. What I would not have done is left 10,000 troops in Iraq that [12:05] would tie us down. That certainly would not help us in the Middle East. I'm sorry. You actually, [12:09] there was a, there was an effort on the part of the president to have a status of forces agreement [12:13] and I concurred in that and said that we should have some number of troops that stayed on. [12:17] That was something I concurred with. That was your posture. That was my posture as well. You thought it [12:22] should have been 5,000 troops. I thought it should have been more troops. But you know what? The answer was we got no troops [12:26] through whatsoever. This is just a few weeks ago that you indicated that we should still have troops [12:31] in Iraq. No, I didn't. I'm sorry. That's just, I indicated that you, I indicated that you failed [12:36] to put in place a status of forces agreement at the end of the conflict that existed. Governor, [12:40] here's, here's, here's one thing I've, here's, here's one thing I've learned as commander in chief. [12:45] You've got to be clear, both to our allies and our enemies, about where you stand and what you mean. [12:53] Now, you just gave a speech a few weeks ago in which you said we should still have troops in Iraq. [12:57] That is not a recipe for making sure that we are taking advantage of the opportunities and meeting [13:04] the challenges of the Middle East. Now, it is absolutely true that we cannot just meet these [13:09] challenges militarily. And so what I've done throughout my presidency and will continue to do [13:15] is, number one, make sure that these countries are supporting our counterterrorism efforts. [13:20] Number two, make sure that they are standing by our interests in Israel's security, because it is a [13:26] true friend and our greatest ally in the region. Number three, we do have to make sure that we're [13:31] protecting religious minorities and women because these countries can't develop unless all the [13:37] population, not just half of it, is developing. Number four, we do have to develop their economic, [13:43] their economic capabilities. But number five, the other thing that we have to do is recognize that we [13:48] can't continue to do nation building in these regions. Part of American leadership is making sure that [13:53] we're doing nation building here at home. That will help us maintain the kind of American leadership [14:00] that we need. Let me interject the second topic question in this segment about the Middle East [14:06] and so on. And that is, you both mentioned, alluded to this, and that is Syria. War in Syria is now [14:13] spilled over into Lebanon. We have, what, more than 100 people that were killed there in a bomb. There were [14:19] demonstrations there, eight people dead. Mr. President, it's been more than a year since [14:24] you saw, you told Assad he had to go. Since then, 30,000 Syrians have died. We've had 300,000 refugees. [14:33] The war goes on. He's still there. Should we reassess our policy and see if we can find a better way to [14:42] influence events there, or is that even possible? And you go first, sir. [14:46] What we've done is organized the international community, saying Assad has to go. We've mobilized [14:54] sanctions against that government. We have made sure that they are isolated. We have provided [15:00] humanitarian assistance, and we are helping the opposition organize. And we're particularly [15:05] interested in making sure that we're mobilizing the moderate forces inside of Syria. But ultimately, [15:11] Syrians are going to have to determine their own future. And so everything we're doing, [15:16] we're doing in consultation with our partners in the region, including Israel, [15:19] which obviously has a huge interest in seeing what happens in Syria, coordinating with Turkey [15:24] and other countries in the region that have a great interest in this. [15:27] Now, what we're seeing taking place in Syria is heartbreaking. And that's why we are going to [15:33] do everything we can to make sure that we are helping the opposition. But we also have to recognize [15:38] that for us to get more entangled militarily in Syria is a serious step. And we have to do so [15:48] making absolutely certain that we know who we are helping, that we're not putting arms in the hands [15:53] of folks who eventually could turn them against us or our allies in the region. And I am confident [16:00] that Assad's days are numbered. But what we can't do is to simply suggest that, as Governor Romney at [16:06] times has suggested, that giving heavy weapons, for example, to the Syrian opposition is a simple [16:13] proposition that would lead us to be safer over the long term. Governor? Well, let's step back and [16:18] talk about what's happening in Syria and how important it is. First of all, 30,000 people being killed [16:24] by their government is a humanitarian disaster. Secondly, Syria is an opportunity for us because [16:30] Syria plays an important role in the Middle East, particularly right now. Syria is Iran's only ally in the Arab [16:36] world. It's their route to the sea. It's the route for them to arm Hezbollah in Lebanon, which threatens, [16:42] of course, our ally Israel. And so seeing Syria remove Assad is a very high priority for us. [16:49] Number two, seeing the replacement government being responsible people is critical for us. And finally, [16:55] we don't want to have military involvement there. We don't want to get drawn into a military conflict. [16:59] And so the right course for us is working through our partners and with our own resources to identify [17:04] responsible parties within Syria, organize them, bring them together in a form of, if not government, [17:12] a form of counsel that can take the lead in Syria and then make sure they have the arms necessary to [17:18] defend themselves. We do need to make sure that they don't have arms that get into the wrong hands, [17:24] that those arms could be used to hurt us down the road. We need to make sure as well that we coordinate [17:28] this effort with our allies and particularly with Israel. But the Saudis and the Qatari and the Turks [17:35] are all very concerned about this. They're willing to work with us. We need to have a very effective [17:40] leadership effort in Syria making sure that the insurgents there are armed and that the insurgents [17:47] that become armed are people who will be the responsible parties. Recognize I believe that Assad must [17:53] go. I believe he will go. But I believe we want to make sure that we have the relationships of friendship [17:58] with the people that take his place such that in the years to come we see Syria as a friend and Syria [18:06] as a responsible party in the Middle East. This is a critical opportunity for America. And what I'm afraid [18:11] of is that we've watched over the past year or so, first the president saying, well, we'll let the UN deal [18:16] with it. And Assad, excuse me, Kofi Annan came in and said we're going to try to have a ceasefire. That didn't [18:21] work. Then it looked to the Russians and said, let's see if you can do something. We should be [18:26] playing the leadership role there. Not on the ground with military. All right. But play the leadership [18:31] role. We are playing the leadership role. We organize the friends of Syria. We are mobilizing [18:36] humanitarian support and support for the opposition. And we are making sure that those we help [18:43] are those who will be friends of ours in the long term and friends of our allies in the region over [18:47] the long term. But going back to Libya, because this is an example of how we make choices. [18:55] When we went into Libya and we were able to immediately stop the massacre there because of [19:01] the unique circumstances and the coalition that we had helped to organize, we also had to make sure [19:06] that Muammar Gaddafi didn't stay there. And to the governor's credit, you supported us going into [19:12] Libya and the coalition that we organized. But when it came time to making sure that Gaddafi [19:18] did not stay in power, that he was captured. Governor, your suggestion was that this was mission [19:25] creep, that this was mission muddle. Imagine if we had pulled out at that point. You know, [19:32] Muammar Gaddafi had more American blood on his hands than any individual other than Osama bin Laden. [19:38] And so we were going to make sure that we finished the job. That's part of the reason why [19:42] the Libyans stand with us. But we did so in a careful, thoughtful way, making certain [19:49] that we knew who we were dealing with. That those forces of moderation on the ground were ones that [19:55] we could work with. And we have to take the same kind of steady, thoughtful leadership when it comes [20:01] to Syria. That's exactly what we're doing. Governor, can I just ask you, would you go beyond [20:05] what the administration would do? Like, for example, would you put in no-fly zones over Syria? [20:11] I don't want to have our military involved in Syria. [20:14] I don't think there's a necessity to put our military in Syria at this stage. I don't anticipate [20:20] that in the future. As I indicated, our objectives are to replace Assad and to have in place a new [20:26] government which is friendly to us, a responsible government if possible. And I want to make sure [20:31] they get armed and they have the arms necessary to defend themselves, but also to remove Assad. [20:37] But I do not want to see a military involvement on the part of our troops. And this isn't going to be [20:43] necessary. We have, with our partners in the region, we have sufficient resources to support [20:49] those groups. But look, this has been going on for a year. This is a time, this should have been a time [20:54] for American leadership. We should have taken a leading role, not militarily, but a leading role [20:59] organizationally, governmentally, to bring together the parties there to find responsible parties. [21:04] As you hear from intelligence sources even today, the insurgents are highly disparate. They haven't [21:11] come together. They haven't formed a unity group, a council of some kind. That needs to happen. [21:16] America can help that happen. And we need to make sure they have the arms they need [21:20] to carry out the very important role, which is getting rid of Assad. [21:23] Can we get a quick response, Mr. President? Because I want to ask about [21:26] Egypt too. I'll be very quick. What you just heard [21:29] Governor Romney said is he doesn't have different ideas. And that's because we're doing exactly what we [21:36] should be doing to try to promote a moderate Syrian leadership and an effective transition [21:44] so that we get Assad out. That's the kind of leadership we've shown. That's the kind of leadership [21:48] we'll continue to show. May I ask you, you know, during the Egyptian turmoil, [21:54] there came a point when you said it was time for President Mubarak to go. Some in your administration [22:00] thought perhaps we should have waited a while on that. Do you have any regrets about that? [22:06] No, I don't. Because I think that America has to stand with democracy. [22:11] The notion that we would have tanks run over those young people who were in Tahrir Square, [22:17] that is not the kind of American leadership that John F. Kennedy talked about 50 years ago. [22:22] But what I've also said is that now that you have a democratically elected government in Egypt, [22:30] that they have to make sure that they take responsibility for protecting religious minorities. [22:36] And we have put significant pressure on them to make sure they're doing that. [22:40] To recognize the rights of women, which is critical throughout the region. [22:44] These countries can't develop if young women are not given the kind of education that they need. [22:50] They have to abide by their treaty with Israel. That is a red line for us. [22:54] Because not only is Israel's security at stake, but our security is at stake if that unravels. [22:59] They have to make sure that they're cooperating with us when it comes to counterterrorism. [23:03] And we will help them with respect to developing their own economy. Because ultimately, [23:09] what's going to make the Egyptian revolution successful for the people of Egypt, but also [23:14] for the world, is if those young people who gathered there are seeing opportunities. [23:18] Their aspirations are similar to young people's here. They want jobs. They want to be able to [23:24] make sure their kids are going to a good school. They want to make sure that they have a roof over [23:29] their heads and that they have the prospects of a better life in the future. And so one of the [23:34] things that we've been doing is, for example, organizing entrepreneurship conferences with [23:39] these Egyptians to give them a sense of how they can start rebuilding their economy in a way that's [23:45] non-corrupt, that's transparent. But what is also important for us to understand is that for America [23:51] to be successful in this region, there are some things that we're going to have to do here at home [23:56] as well. You know, one of the challenges over the last decade is we've done experiments in nation [24:03] building in places like Iraq and Afghanistan. And we've neglected, for example, developing our own [24:09] economy, our own energy sectors, our own education system. And it's very hard for us to project [24:14] leadership around the world when we're not doing what we need to do. Governor Romney, [24:19] I want to hear your response to that. But I would just ask you, would you have stuck with Mubarak? [24:23] No, I believe, as the president indicated and said at the time, that I supported his [24:29] action there. I felt that I wish we'd have had a better vision of the future. I wish that looking [24:35] back at the beginning of the president's term and even further back than that, that we'd have [24:38] recognized that there was a growing energy and passion for freedom in that part of the world and [24:44] that we would have worked more aggressively with our friend and with other friends in the region to [24:48] have them make the transition towards a more representative form of government such that it didn't explode in [24:53] the way it did. But once it exploded, I felt the same as the president did, which is these freedom voices [24:59] in the streets of Egypt where the people who were speaking of our principles and President Mubarak had [25:06] done things which were unimaginable. And the idea of him crushing his people was not something that we could [25:11] possibly support. Let me step back and talk about what I think our mission has to be in the Middle East and even more broadly, [25:17] because our purpose is to make sure the world is more peaceful. We want a peaceful planet. We want [25:23] people to be able to enjoy their lives and know they're going to have a bright and prosperous future [25:27] and not be at war. That's our purpose. And the mantle of leadership for the promoting the principles [25:32] of peace has fallen to America. We didn't ask for it, but it's an honor that we have it. But for us to be able to [25:38] promote those principles of peace requires us to be strong. And that begins with a strong economy here at home. [25:44] And unfortunately, the economy is not stronger. When the president of Iraq, excuse me, of Iran, [25:51] Ahmadinejad, says that our debt makes us not a great country, that's a frightening thing. The former [25:57] chief of the Joint Chiefs of Staff said that Admiral Mullen said that our debt is the biggest national [26:02] security threat we face. We have weakened our economy. We need a strong economy. We need to have, [26:08] as well, a strong military. Our military is second to none in the world. We're blessed with terrific [26:13] soldiers and extraordinary technology and intelligence. But the idea of a trillion dollars in cuts through [26:18] sequestration and budget cuts to the military would change that. We need to have strong allies. Our [26:24] association and connection with our allies is essential to America's strength. We're the great nation that [26:30] has allies, 42 allies and friends around the world. And finally, we have to stand by our principles. And if we're [26:36] strong in each of those things, American influence will grow. But unfortunately, in nowhere in the world [26:42] is America's influence greater today than it was four years ago. All right. And that's because we've [26:47] become weaker on each of those four dimensions. This is perfect. You're going to get a chance to respond [26:50] to that because that's a perfect segue into our next segment. And that is, what is America's role in the [26:58] world? And that is the question, what do each of you see as our role in the world? And I believe, [27:05] Governor Romney, it's your turn to go first. Well, I absolutely believe that America has a [27:10] responsibility and the privilege of helping defend freedom and promote the principles that make the [27:18] world more peaceful. And those principles include human rights, human dignity, free enterprise, freedom of [27:25] expression, elections, because when there are elections, people tend to vote for peace. They [27:30] don't vote for war. So we want to promote those principles around the world. We recognize that there [27:36] are places of conflict in the world. We want to end those conflicts to the extent humanly possible. [27:41] But in order to be able to fulfill our role in the world, America must be strong. America must lead. [27:49] And for that to happen, we have to strengthen our economy here at home. You can't have 23 million people [27:54] struggling to get a job. You can't have an economy that over the last three years keeps slowing down [28:00] its growth rate. You can't have kids coming out of college, half of whom can't find a job today or a [28:06] job that's commensurate with their college degree. We have to get our economy going. And our military. [28:12] We've got to strengthen our military long term. We don't know what the world is going to throw at us [28:16] down the road. We make decisions today in the military that will confront challenges we can't [28:22] imagine. In the 2000 debates, there was no mention of terrorism, for instance. And a year later, 9-11 [28:28] happened. So we have to make decisions based upon uncertainty. And that means a strong military. [28:33] I will not cut our military budget. We have to also stand by our allies. I think the tension that [28:39] existed between Israel and the United States was very unfortunate. I think also that pulling our [28:44] missile defense program out of Poland in the way we did was also unfortunate in terms of, if you will, [28:52] disrupting the relationship in some ways that existed between us. And then, of course, [28:56] with regards to standing for our principles, when the students took to the streets in Tehran [29:01] and the people there protested, the Green Revolution occurred. For the president to be silent, I thought, [29:07] was an enormous mistake. We have to stand for our principles, stand for our allies, stand for a strong [29:12] military, and stand for a stronger economy. Mr. President. America remains the one indispensable nation. [29:19] And the world needs a strong America. And it is stronger now than when I came into office. [29:26] Because we ended the war in Iraq, we were able to refocus our attention on not only the terrorist [29:32] threat, but also beginning a transition process in Afghanistan. It also allowed us to refocus on [29:39] alliances and relationships that have been neglected for a decade. And, Governor Romney, [29:44] our alliances have never been stronger. In Asia, in Europe, in Africa, with Israel, where we have [29:53] unprecedented military and intelligence cooperation, including dealing with the Iranian threat. But what [30:00] we also have been able to do is position ourselves so we can start rebuilding America. And that's what [30:06] my plan does. Making sure that we're bringing manufacturing back to our shores so that we're creating [30:12] jobs here, as we've done with the auto industry. Not rewarding companies that are shipping jobs [30:17] overseas. Making sure that we've got the best education system in the world. Including retraining [30:22] our workers for the jobs of tomorrow. Doing everything we can to control our own energy. We've cut [30:28] our oil imports to the lowest level in two decades. Because we've developed oil and natural gas, but we [30:34] also have to develop clean energy technologies that will allow us to cut our exports in half by 2020. [30:42] That's the kind of leadership that we need to show. And we've got to make sure that we reduce our [30:47] deficit. Unfortunately, Governor Romney's plan doesn't do it. We've got to do it in a responsible [30:51] way. By cutting out spending we don't need, but also by asking the wealthiest to pay a little bit more. [30:57] That way we can invest in the research and technology that's always kept us at the cutting edge. [31:02] Now, Governor Romney has taken a different approach throughout this campaign. Both at home and abroad, [31:10] he has proposed wrong and reckless policies. He's praised George Bush as a good economic steward, [31:16] and Dick Cheney as somebody who shows great wisdom and judgment. And taking us back to those kinds of [31:22] strategies that got us into this mess are not the way that we are going to maintain leadership in the [31:27] 21st century. Governor Romney, wrong and reckless policies? [31:31] I've got a policy for the future and an agenda for the future. And when it comes to our economy [31:37] here at home, I know what it takes to create 12 million new jobs and rising take-home pay. [31:42] And what we've seen over the last four years is something I don't want to see over the next four [31:45] years. The president said by now we'd be at 5.4 percent unemployment. We're 9 million jobs short of [31:52] that. I will get America working again and see rising take-home pay again. And I'll do it with five [31:57] simple steps. Number one, we are going to have North American energy independence. We're going to do [32:03] it by taking full advantage of oil, coal, gas, nuclear, and our renewables. Number two, we're going [32:09] to increase our trade. Trade grows about 12 percent per year. It doubles about every five or so years. [32:15] We can do better than that, particularly in Latin America. The opportunities for us in Latin America, [32:20] we have just not taken advantage of fully. As a matter of fact, Latin America's economy is almost as [32:25] big as the economy of China. We're all focused on China. Latin America is a huge opportunity for us. [32:31] Time zone, language opportunities. Number three, we're going to have to have training programs that [32:36] work for our workers and schools that finally put the parents and the teachers and the kids first and [32:42] the teachers union is going to have to go behind. And then we're going to have to get to a balanced [32:46] budget. We can't expect entrepreneurs and businesses large and small to take their life savings or [32:53] their companies money and invest in America if they think we're headed to the road to Greece. [32:57] And that's where we're going right now unless we finally get off this spending and borrowing binge [33:02] and I'll get us on track to a balanced budget. And finally, number five, we've got to champion [33:08] small business. Small business is where jobs come from. Two-thirds of our jobs come from small [33:14] businesses. New business formation is down at the lowest level in 30 years under this administration. [33:20] I want to bring it back and get back good jobs and rising take-home pay. [33:23] Well, let's talk about what we need to compete. First of all, Governor Romney talks about small [33:27] businesses. But, Governor, when you were in Massachusetts, small businesses development [33:34] ranked about 48th, I think, out of 50 states in Massachusetts because the policies that you're [33:39] promoting actually don't help small businesses. And the way you define small businesses include [33:44] folks at the very top. And they include you and me. That's not the kind of small business [33:48] promotion we need. But let's take an example that we know is going to make a difference [33:53] in the 21st century, and that's our education policy. We didn't have a lot of chance to talk [33:56] about this in the last debate. Now, under my leadership, what we've done is reformed education, [34:02] working with governors, 46 states. We've seen progress and gains in schools that were having [34:09] a terrible time, and they're starting to finally make progress. And what I now want to do is to hire more [34:15] teachers, especially in math and science, because we know that we've fallen behind when it comes to [34:20] math and science. And those teachers can make a difference. Now, Governor Romney, when you were [34:25] asked by teachers whether or not this would help the economy grow, you said this isn't going to help [34:30] the economy grow. When you were asked about reduced class sizes, you said class sizes don't make a [34:36] difference. But I tell you, if you talk to teachers, they will tell you it does make a difference. [34:41] And if we've got math teachers who are able to provide the kind of support that they need for [34:48] our kids, that's what's going to determine whether or not the new businesses are created here, [34:53] companies are going to locate here, depending on whether we've got the most highly skilled workforce, [34:57] and the kinds of budget proposals that you've put forward. When we don't ask either you or me to pay [35:03] a dime more in terms of reducing the deficit, but instead we slash support for education, that's [35:09] undermining our long-term competitiveness. That is not good for America's position in the world. [35:14] And the world notices. Let me get back to foreign policy. Can I just get back? [35:18] Well, I need to speak a moment, Bob, just about education, because I'm so proud of the state that [35:25] I had the chance to be governor of. We have every two years tests that look at how well our kids are [35:31] doing. Fourth graders and eighth graders are tested in English and math. While I was governor, I was proud that [35:37] our fourth graders came out number one of all 50 states in English, and then also in math, [35:41] and our eighth graders number one in English, and also in math. First time one state had been number [35:46] one in all four measures. How do we do that? Well, Republicans and Democrats came together on a [35:52] bipartisan basis to put in place education principles that focused on having great teachers [35:58] in the classroom. And that was what allowed us to become the number one state in the nation. [36:03] But that was ten years out before you took office. Absolutely. And then you cut education [36:07] spending when you came into office. And we kept our schools number one in the nation. They're [36:11] still number one today. All right. And the principles that we put in place, we also gave kids [36:15] not just a graduation exam that determined whether they were up to the skills needed to be able to [36:20] compete, but also if they graduated the top quarter of their class, they got a four-year tuition-free [36:26] ride at any Massachusetts public institution of higher learning. That happened before you came into [36:30] office. That was actually mine, actually. Mr. President, you got that fact wrong. [36:34] I want to try to shift it because we have heard some of this in the other debates. Governor, [36:39] you say you want a bigger military. You want a bigger navy. You don't want to cut defense spending. [36:46] What I want to ask you, we're talking about financial problems in this country. [36:50] Where are you going to get the money? Well, let's let's come back and talk about the military, [36:54] but all the way all the way through. First of all, I'm going through from the very beginning, [36:58] we're going to cut about five percent of the discretionary budget, excluding military. That's [37:03] number one. But can you do this without driving us deeper into debt? The good news is I'll be happy [37:08] to have you take a look. Come on our website. You'll look at how we get to a balanced budget [37:12] within eight to ten years. We do it by getting, by reducing spending in a whole series of programs. [37:17] By the way, number one I get rid of is Obamacare. There are a number of things that sound good, [37:23] but frankly, we just can't afford them. And that one doesn't sound good, and it's not affordable. [37:27] So I get rid of that one from day one. To the extent humanly possible, we get that out. We take [37:31] program after program that we don't absolutely have to have, and we get rid of them. Number two, [37:37] we take some programs that we are going to keep, like Medicaid, which is a program for the poor. [37:42] We take that health care program for the poor, and we give it to the states to run because states run [37:48] these programs more efficiently. As a governor, I thought, please give me this program. I can run this [37:54] more efficiently than the federal government. And states, by the way, are proving it. States like [37:58] Arizona, Rhode Island have taken these Medicaid dollars, have shown they can run these programs [38:04] more cost-effectively. And so I want to do those two things. It gets us to a balanced budget with [38:10] eight to ten years. But the military, let's get back to the military, though. [38:14] Well, that's what I'm trying to find out about. [38:16] Let's talk about the military. You should have answered the first question. [38:19] Look, Governor Romney's called for $5 trillion of tax cuts that he says he's going to pay for [38:27] by closing deductions. Now, the math doesn't work, but he continues to claim that he's going to do it. [38:33] He then wants to spend another $2 trillion on military spending that our military is not asking for. [38:40] Now, keep in mind that our military spending has gone up every single year that I've been in office. [38:47] We spend more on our military than the next ten countries combined. China, Russia, France, [38:54] United Kingdom, you name it. Next ten. And what I did was work with our Joint Chiefs of Staff [39:01] to think about what are we going to need in the future to make sure that we are safe. And that's [39:06] the budget that we've put forward. But what you can't do is spend $2 trillion in additional military [39:14] spending that the military is not asking for. $5 trillion on tax cuts. You say that you're going [39:21] to pay for it by closing loopholes and deductions without naming what those loopholes and deductions [39:27] are. And then somehow you're also going to deal with the deficit that we've already got. The math [39:33] simply doesn't work. But when it comes to our military, what we have to think about is not, [39:39] you know, just budgets. We've got to think about capabilities. We need to be thinking about [39:44] cybersecurity. We need to be thinking about space. That's exactly what our budget does. But it's [39:48] driven by strategy. It's not driven by politics. It's not driven by members of Congress and what [39:55] they would like to see. It's driven by what are we going to need to keep the American people safe. [40:00] That's exactly what our budget does. And it also then allows us to reduce our deficit, which is [40:07] a significant national security concern. Because we've got to make sure that our economy is strong at [40:13] home so that we can project military power overseas. Bob, I'm pleased that I balanced budgets. [40:19] I was in the world of business for 25 years. If you didn't balance your budget, you went out of [40:23] business. I went to the Olympics that was out of balance and we got it on balance and made a success [40:28] there. I had the chance to be governor of state. Four years in a row, Democrats and Republicans came [40:34] together to balance the budget. We cut taxes 19 times, balanced our budget. The president hasn't balanced a [40:40] budget yet. I expect to have the opportunity to do so myself. I'm going to be able to balance the [40:45] budget. Let's talk about military spending. And that's this. Our Navy is older. Excuse me. Our [40:51] Navy is smaller now than any time since 1917. The Navy said they needed 313 ships to carry out their [40:57] mission. We're not under 285. We're headed down to the low 200s if we go through with sequestration. [41:03] That's unacceptable to me. I want to make sure that we have the ships that are required by our Navy. [41:07] Our Air Force is older and smaller than any time since it was founded in 1947. We've changed for [41:14] the first time since FDR. Since FDR, we've always had the strategy of saying we could fight in two [41:19] conflicts at once. Now we're changing to one conflict. Look, this, in my view, is the highest [41:25] responsibility of the president of the United States, which is to maintain the safety of the [41:30] American people. And I will not cut our military budget by a trillion dollars, which is the combination [41:35] of the budget cuts that the president has, as well as the sequestration cuts. That, in my view, [41:40] is making our future less certain and less secure. Bob, I just need to comment on this. First of all, [41:46] the sequester is not something that I proposed. It's something that Congress has proposed. It will not [41:50] happen. The budget that we're talking about is not reducing our military spending. It's maintaining it. [41:57] But I think Governor Romney maybe hasn't spent enough time looking at how our military works. You [42:03] mentioned the Navy, for example, and that we have fewer ships than we did in 1916. Well, [42:08] Governor, we also have fewer horses and bayonets because the nature of our military has changed. [42:13] We have these things called aircraft carriers where planes land on them. We have these ships that go [42:18] underwater, nuclear submarines. And so the question is not a game of battleship where we're counting [42:25] ships. It's what are our capabilities. And so when I sit down with the Secretary of the Navy [42:31] and the Joint Chiefs of Staff, we determine how are we going to be best able to meet all of our [42:37] defense needs in a way that also keeps faith with our troops, that also makes sure that our veterans [42:43] have the kind of support that they need when they come home. And that is not reflected in the kind of [42:49] budget that you're putting forward because it just doesn't work. All right. And, you know, [42:53] we visited the website quite a bit, and it still doesn't work. A lot to cover. I'd like to move to [43:00] the next segment, red lines, Israel and Iran. Would either of you, and you'll have two minutes, [43:09] and President Obama, you have the first go at this one. Would either of you be willing to declare [43:15] that an attack on Israel is an attack on the United States, which, of course, is the same promise [43:22] that we give to our close allies like Japan? And if you made such a declaration, would not that deter [43:29] Iran? It's certainly deterred the Soviet Union for a long, long time when we made that promise to our [43:39] allies. Mr. President? Well, first of all, Israel is a true friend. It is our greatest ally in the [43:45] region. And if Israel is attacked, America will stand with Israel. I've made that clear throughout [43:51] my presidency. So you're saying we've already made that declaration? [43:55] I will stand with Israel if they are attacked. And this is the reason why, working with Israel, [44:01] we have created the strongest military and intelligence cooperation between our two countries [44:06] in history. In fact, this week, we'll be carrying out the largest military exercise with Israel [44:12] in history, this very week. But to the issue of Iran, as long as I'm President of the United States, [44:21] Iran will not get a nuclear weapon. I made that clear when I came into office. We then organized [44:27] the strongest coalition and the strongest sanctions against Iran in history, and it is crippling their [44:34] economy. Their currency has dropped 80 percent. Their oil production has plunged to the lowest level [44:40] since they were fighting a war with Iraq 20 years ago. So their economy is in a shambles. And the reason [44:46] we did this is because a nuclear Iran is a threat to our national security, and it's a threat to Israel's [44:52] national security. We cannot afford to have a nuclear arms race in the most volatile region [44:59] of the world. Iran is a state sponsor of terrorism. And for them to be able to provide nuclear technology [45:05] to non-state actors, that's unacceptable. And they have said they want to see Israel wiped off the map. [45:12] So the work that we've done with respect to sanctions now offers Iran a choice. They can take the diplomatic [45:21] route and end their nuclear program, or they will have to face a united world and a United States [45:29] president, me, who said we're not going to take any options off the table. The disagreement I have [45:33] with Governor Romney is that during the course of this campaign, he's often talked as if we should [45:39] take premature military action. I think that would be a mistake, because when I've sent young men and [45:45] women into harm's way, I always understand that that is the last resort, not the first resort. [45:51] Two minutes. Well, first of all, I want to underscore the same point the president made, [45:58] which is that if I'm president of the United States, when I'm president of the United States, [46:02] we will stand with Israel. And if Israel is attacked, we have their back, not just diplomatically, [46:09] not just culturally, but militarily. That's number one. Number two, with regards to Iran and the threat [46:14] of Iran, there's no question but that a nuclear Iran, a nuclear-capable Iran is unacceptable to America. [46:20] It presents a threat not only to our friends, but ultimately a threat to us to have Iran have [46:25] nuclear material, nuclear weapons that could be used against us or used to be threatening to us. [46:30] It's also essential for us to understand what our mission is in Iran, and that is to dissuade Iran [46:35] from having a nuclear weapon through peaceful and diplomatic means. And crippling sanctions are [46:40] something I called for five years ago when I was in Israel speaking at the Herzliya conference. [46:45] They laid out seven steps. Crippling sanctions were number one. And they do work. You're seeing [46:50] it right now in the economy. It's absolutely the right thing to do to have crippling sanctions. [46:54] I'd have put them in place earlier, but it's good that we have them. Number two, something I would [46:58] add today is I would tighten those sanctions. I would say that ships that carry Iranian oil can't [47:05] come into our ports. I imagine the EU would agree with us as well. Not only ships couldn't, [47:09] I'd say companies that are moving their oil can't, people who are trading in their oil can't, [47:13] I would tighten those sanctions further. Secondly, I'd take on diplomatic isolation efforts. [47:19] I'd make sure that Ahmadinejad is indicted under the genocide convention. His words amount to genocide [47:25] incitation. I would indict him for it. I would also make sure that their diplomats are treated like [47:30] the pariah they are around the world, the same way we treated the apartheid diplomats of South Africa. [47:37] We need to increase pressure time and time again on Iran because anything other than a [47:43] solution to this which says, which stops this nuclear folly of theirs is unacceptable to America. [47:49] And of course, a military action is the last resort. It is something one would only, only consider [47:57] if all of the other avenues had been tried to their full extent. [48:02] Let me ask both of you, as you know, there are reports that Iran and the United States [48:07] as part of an international group have agreed in principle to talks about Iran's nuclear program. [48:15] What is the deal if there are such talks? What is the deal that you would accept, Mr. President? [48:20] Well, first of all, those are reports in the newspaper. They are not true. But our goal is to [48:29] get Iran to recognize it needs to give up its nuclear program and abide by the UN resolutions that have [48:38] been in place because they have the opportunity to reenter the community of nations. And we would [48:44] welcome that. There are people in Iran who have the same aspirations as people all around the world [48:49] for a better life. And we hope that their leadership takes the right decision. But the deal we'll accept [48:57] is they end their nuclear program. It's very straightforward. And, you know, I'm glad that [49:02] Governor Romney agrees with the steps that we're taking. There have been times, Governor, frankly, [49:07] during the course of this campaign where it sounded like you thought that you'd do the same things we [49:14] did, but you'd say them louder, and somehow that would make a difference. And it turns out that [49:19] the work involved in setting up these crippling sanctions is painstaking. It's meticulous. [49:25] We started from the day we got into office. And the reason it was so important, and this is [49:30] a testament to how we've restored American credibility and strength around the world, is we had to make [49:36] sure that all the countries participated, even countries like Russia and China. Because if it's just us [49:42] that are imposing sanctions, we've had sanctions in place for a long time. It's because we got [49:47] everybody to agree that Iran is seeing so much pressure. And we've got to maintain that pressure. [49:54] There is a deal to be had. And that is that they abide by the rules that have already been established. [50:00] They convince the international community they are not pursuing a nuclear program. There are inspections [50:07] that are very intrusive. But over time, what they can do is regain credibility. In the meantime, [50:14] though, we're not going to let up the pressure until we have clear evidence that takes place. And [50:19] one last thing, just to make this point. The clock is ticking. We're not going to allow Iran to [50:27] perpetually engage in negotiations that lead nowhere. And I've been very clear to them. Because of the [50:34] intelligence coordination that we do with a range of countries, including Israel, we have a sense of [50:39] when they would get breakout capacity, which means that we would not be able to intervene in time [50:44] to stop their nuclear program. And that clock is ticking. And we're going to make sure that [50:49] if they do not meet the demands of the international community, then we are going to take all options [50:56] necessary to make sure they don't have a nuclear weapon. Governor. I think from the very beginning, [51:01] one of the challenges we've had with Iran is that they have looked at this administration and felt [51:05] that the administration was not as strong as it needed to be. I think they saw weakness where [51:10] they had expected to find American strength. And I say that because from the very beginning, [51:14] the president in his campaign some four years ago said he would meet with all the world's worst actors [51:18] in his first year. He would sit down with Chavez and Kim Jong Il, with Castro, and with President [51:26] Ahmadinejad of Iran. And I think they looked and thought, well, that's an unusual honor to receive [51:33] from the president of the United States. And then the president began what I've called an apology tour [51:38] of going to various nations in the Middle East and criticizing America. I think they looked at that [51:43] and saw weakness. Then when there were dissidents in the streets of Tehran, a green revolution, [51:49] holding signs saying, is America with us, the president was silent. I think they noticed that as well. [51:54] And I think that when the president said he was going to create daylight between ourselves and [51:58] Israel, that they noticed that as well. All of these things suggested, I think, to the Iranian mullahs [52:05] that, hey, you know, we can keep on pushing along here. We can keep talks going on, but we're just going [52:11] to keep on spinning centrifuges. Now there are some 10,000 centrifuges spinning uranium, preparing to create [52:17] a nuclear threat to the United States and to the world. That's unacceptable for us. And it's essential for [52:24] a president to show strength from the very beginning, to make it very clear what is acceptable and not [52:29] acceptable. And an Iranian nuclear program is not acceptable to us. They must not develop nuclear [52:35] capability. And the way to make sure they understand that is by having from the very beginning [52:40] the tightest sanctions possible. They need to be tightened. Our diplomatic isolation needs to be tougher. [52:46] We need to indict Ahmadinejad. We need to put the pressure on them as hard as we possibly can. [52:52] Because if we do that, we won't have to take the military action. [52:55] Bob, let me just respond. Nothing Governor Romney just said is true, starting with this notion of [53:02] me apologizing. This has been probably the biggest whopper that's been told during the course of this [53:08] campaign. And every fact checker and every reporter has looked at it. Governor has said, [53:12] this is not true. And when it comes to tightening sanctions, look, as I said before, [53:19] we've put in the toughest, most crippling sanctions ever. And the fact is, while we were coordinating [53:26] an international coalition to make sure these sanctions were effective, you were still invested [53:32] in a Chinese state oil company that was doing business with the Iranian oil sector. [53:37] So I'll let the American people decide, judge, who's going to be more effective and more credible when [53:42] it comes to imposing crippling sanctions. And with respect to our attitude about the Iranian revolution, [53:49] I was very clear about the murderous activities that had taken place. And that was contrary to [53:56] international law and everything that civilized people stand for. And so the strength that we have [54:04] shown in Iran is shown by the fact that we've been able to mobilize the world. When I came into office, [54:11] the world was divided. Iran was resurgent. Iran is at its weakest point economically, strategically, [54:19] militarily, than since then in many years. And we are going to continue to keep the pressure on [54:24] to make sure that they do not get a nuclear weapon. That's in America's national interest, [54:29] and that will be the case so long as I'm president. We're four years closer to a nuclear Iran. [54:35] We're four years closer to a nuclear Iran. And we should not have wasted these four years to the [54:40] extent they've continued to be able to spin these centrifuges and get that much closer. That's number [54:45] one. Number two, Mr. President, the reason I call it an apology tour is because you went to the Middle [54:51] East and you flew to Egypt and to Saudi Arabia and to Turkey and Iraq. And by the way, you skipped Israel, [54:59] our closest friend in the region. But you went to the other nations. And by the way, they noticed that [55:04] you skipped Israel. And then in those nations and on Arabic TV, you said that America had been dismissive [55:10] and derisive. You said that on occasion, America had dictated to other nations. Mr. President, [55:16] America has not dictated to other nations. We have freed other nations from dictators. [55:21] Bob, let me respond. You know, if we're going to talk about trips that we've taken, you know, [55:28] when I was a candidate for office, the first trip I took was to visit our troops. And when I went to [55:37] Israel as a candidate, I didn't take donors. I didn't attend fundraisers. I went to Yad Vashem, [55:45] the Holocaust Museum there to remind myself that the nature of evil and why our bond with Israel [55:53] will be unbreakable. And then I went down to the border towns of Starot, which had experienced missiles [56:00] raining down from Hamas. And I saw families there who showed me where missiles had come down near their [56:08] children's bedrooms. And I was reminded of what that would mean if those were my kids, which is [56:13] why, as president, we funded an Iron Dome program to stop those missiles. So that's how I've used my [56:22] travels when I travel to Israel and when I travel to the region. And the central question at this point [56:31] is going to be who's going to be credible to all parties involved. And they can look at my track record, [56:39] whether it's Iran sanctions, whether it's dealing with counterterrorism, whether it's supporting [56:44] democracy, whether it's supporting women's rights, whether it's supporting religious minorities. [56:48] And they can say that the president of the United States and the United States of America has stood [56:54] on the right side of history. And that kind of credibility is precisely why we've been able to show [57:01] leadership on a wide range of issues facing the world right now. What if, what if the prime minister [57:09] of Israel called you on the phone and said, our bombers are on the way, we're going to bomb Iran? [57:16] What do you say? Bob, let's not go into hypotheticals of that nature. Our relationship with Israel, [57:22] my relationship with the prime minister of Israel is such that we would not get a call saying our [57:27] bombers are on the way or their fighters are on the way. This is the kind of thing that would have [57:32] been discussed and thoroughly evaluated well before that kind of last minute. [57:36] Let's come back and go back to what the president was speaking about, which is what's happening in [57:44] the world. And the president's statement that things are going so well. Look, I look at what's [57:50] happening around the world and I see Iran four years closer to a bomb. I see the Middle East with a [57:55] rising tide of violence, chaos, tumult. I see jihadists continuing to spread, whether they're rising or [58:03] just about the same level, hard to, hard to precisely measure, but it's clear they're there. [58:09] They're very, very strong. I see Syria with 30,000 civilians dead. Assad's still in power. I see our [58:15] trade deficit with China larger than it's, growing larger every year, as a matter of fact. I look around [58:21] the world and I, I don't feel that, that you see North Korea continuing to export their nuclear [58:27] technology. Russia has said they're not going to follow Nunn-Lugar anymore. They're back away from [58:32] nuclear proliferation treaties that we had with them. I look around the world. I don't see our [58:37] influence growing around the world. I see our influence receding in part because of the failure of [58:42] the president to deal with our economic challenges at all, in part because of our withdrawal from [58:47] our commitment to our military in the way I think it ought to be, in part because of the, the, um, the [58:54] turmoil with Israel. I mean, the president received a letter from 38 Democrat senators saying the tensions with [59:00] Israel were a real problem. They asked him, please repair the tension. Democrat senators, [59:06] please repair the damage in his, in his own party. Governor, the problem is, is that on a whole range [59:15] of issues, whether it's the Middle East, whether it's Afghanistan, whether it's Iraq, whether it's now [59:24] Iran, you've been all over the map. I mean, I'm, I'm pleased that you now are endorsing our policy of [59:32] applying diplomatic pressure and potentially having bilateral discussions with the Iranians to end [59:38] their nuclear program. But just a few years ago, you said that's something you'd never do, [59:44] in the same way that you initially opposed a timetable in Afghanistan. Now you're for it, [59:50] although it depends. In the same way that you say you would have ended the war in Iraq, [59:57] but recently gave a speech saying that we should have 20,000 more folks in there. The same way that [1:00:04] you said that it was mission creep to go after, uh, Gaddafi. When it comes to going after Osama [1:00:12] bin Laden, you said, well, any president would make that call. But when you were a candidate in 2008, [1:00:18] as I was, and I said, if I got bin Laden in our sights, I would take that shot. You said, [1:00:25] we shouldn't move heaven and earth to get one man. And you said, we should ask Pakistan for permission. [1:00:31] And if we had asked Pakistan for permission, we would not have gotten it. And it was worth moving [1:00:35] heaven and earth to get him. You know, after we killed bin Laden, I was at ground zero for a memorial [1:00:42] and talked to a young woman who was four years old when 9-11 happened. And the last conversation [1:00:50] she had with her father was him calling from the Twin Towers, saying, Peyton, I love you and I will [1:00:57] always watch over you. And for the next decade, she was haunted by that conversation. And she said [1:01:04] to me, you know, by finally getting bin Laden, that brought some closure to me. And when we do [1:01:11] things like that, when we bring those who have harmed us to justice, that sends a message to the [1:01:19] world. And it tells Peyton that we did not forget her father. And I make that point because that's the [1:01:26] kind of clarity of leadership. And those decisions are not always popular. Those decisions generally [1:01:33] are not poll tested. And even some in my own party, including my current vice president, had the same [1:01:39] critique as you did. But what the American people understand is, is that I look at what we need to [1:01:44] get done to keep the American people safe and to move our interests forward. And I make those decisions. [1:01:50] All right. Let's go. And that leads us. This takes us right to the next segment, Governor. [1:01:55] America's longest war, Afghanistan and Pakistan. Governor, you get to go first. [1:02:00] You can't. Okay. But you can't have the president just lay out a whole series of items without [1:02:05] giving me a chance. Well, with respect, sir, you had laid out quite a program there. [1:02:08] Well, that's probably true. We'll give you. We'll give you. [1:02:11] We'll agree. We'll catch you up. The United States is scheduled to turn over responsibility for security [1:02:17] in Afghanistan to the Afghan government in 2014. At that point, we will withdraw our combat troops, [1:02:24] leave a smaller force of Americans, if I understand our policy, in Afghanistan for training purposes. [1:02:31] It seems to me the key question here is, what do you do if the deadline arrives and it is obvious [1:02:39] the Afghans are unable to handle their security? Do we still leave? And I believe, Governor Romney, [1:02:46] you go first. [1:02:47] Well, we're going to be finished by 2014. And when I'm president, we'll make sure we bring our [1:02:53] troops out by the end of 2014. The commanders and the generals there are on track to do so. [1:02:59] We've seen progress over the past several years. The surge has been successful. And the training [1:03:05] program is proceeding at pace. There are now a large number of Afghan security forces, 350,000, [1:03:12] that are ready to step in to provide security. And we're going to be able to make that transition [1:03:17] by the end of 2014. So our troops will come home at that point. I can tell you at the same time [1:03:23] that we will make sure that we look at what's happening in Pakistan and recognize that what's [1:03:29] happening in Pakistan is going to have a major impact on the success in Afghanistan. And I say [1:03:36] that because I know a lot of people just feel like we should just brush our hands and walk away. [1:03:40] And I don't mean you, Mr. President, but some people in our nation feel that Pakistan is being [1:03:46] nice to us and that we should just walk away from them. But Pakistan is important to the region, [1:03:50] to the world, and to us because Pakistan has 100 nuclear warheads. And they're rushing to build a [1:03:56] lot more. They'll have more than Great Britain sometime in the relatively near future. They also have [1:04:01] the Haqqani network and the Taliban existent within their country. And so a Pakistan that falls apart [1:04:09] becomes a failed state would be of extraordinary danger to Afghanistan and to us. And so we're [1:04:15] going to have to remain helpful in encouraging Pakistan to move towards a more stable government [1:04:21] and rebuild a relationship with us. And that means that our aid that we provide to Pakistan [1:04:27] is going to have to be conditioned upon certain benchmarks being met. So for me, [1:04:32] I look at this as both a need to help move Pakistan in the right direction and also to get Afghanistan [1:04:39] to be ready and they will be ready by the end of 2014. [1:04:42] Mr. President. [1:04:43] When I came into office, we were still bogged down in Iraq and Afghanistan had been drifting [1:04:51] for a decade. We ended the war in Iraq, refocused our attention on Afghanistan. And we did deliver a [1:04:57] surge of troops that was facilitated in part because we had ended the war in Iraq. And we are now in a [1:05:04] position where we have met many of the objectives that got us there in the first place. Part of what [1:05:11] had happened is we'd forgotten why we had gone. We went because there were people who were responsible [1:05:17] for 3,000 American deaths. And so we decimated al Qaeda's core leadership in the border regions [1:05:23] between Afghanistan and Pakistan. We then started to build up Afghan forces. And we're now in a [1:05:31] position where we can transition out because there's no reason why Americans should die when Afghans are [1:05:39] perfectly capable of defending their own country. Now, that transition has to take place in a responsible [1:05:44] fashion. We've been there a long time and we've got to make sure that we and our coalition partners [1:05:50] are pulling out responsibly and giving Afghans the capabilities that they need. But what I think [1:05:58] the American people recognize is after a decade of war, it's time to do some nation building here at [1:06:03] home. And what we can now do is free up some resources to, for example, put Americans back to [1:06:10] work, especially our veterans, rebuilding our roads, our bridges, our schools, making sure that, you know, [1:06:17] our veterans are getting the care that they need when it comes to post-traumatic stress disorder and [1:06:24] traumatic brain injury, making sure that the certifications that they need for good jobs of [1:06:30] the future are in place. You know, I was having lunch with a veteran in Minnesota who had been a medic [1:06:38] dealing with the most extreme circumstances. When he came home and he wanted to become a nurse, [1:06:42] he had to start from scratch. And what we've said is, let's change those certifications. The first lady, [1:06:48] she's done great work with an organization called Joining Forces, putting our veterans back to work. [1:06:53] And as a consequence, veterans unemployment is actually now lower than the general population. [1:06:57] It was higher when I came into office. So those are the kinds of things that we can now do because [1:07:04] we're making that transition in Afghanistan. All right. Let me go to Governor Romney. [1:07:09] Because you talked about Pakistan and what needs to be done there. General Allen, our commander in [1:07:16] Afghanistan says that Americans continue to die at the hands of groups who are supported by Pakistan. [1:07:24] We know that Pakistan has arrested the doctor who helped us catch Obama's bin Laden. It still provides [1:07:33] safe haven for terrorists. Yet we continue to give Pakistan billions of dollars. Is it time for us to [1:07:40] divorce Pakistan? No, it's not time to divorce a nation on earth that has 100 nuclear weapons and [1:07:49] is on the way to double that at some point. A nation that has serious threats from terrorist groups within [1:07:57] its nation. As I indicated before, the Taliban, the Haqqani network. It's a nation that's not like [1:08:02] others and it does not have a civilian leadership that is calling the shots there. You've got the ISI, [1:08:07] their intelligence organization. It's probably the most powerful of three branches there. Then you [1:08:12] have the military and then you have the civilian government. This is a nation which, if it falls [1:08:17] apart, if it becomes a failed state, there are nuclear weapons there. And you've got terrorists there [1:08:25] who could grab their hands under those nuclear weapons. This is an important part of the world [1:08:31] for us. Pakistan is technically an ally. And they're not acting very much like an ally right [1:08:36] now. But we have some work to do. And I don't blame the administration for the fact that the [1:08:42] relationship with Pakistan is strained. We had to go into Pakistan. We had to go in there to get [1:08:48] Osama bin Laden. That was the right thing to do. And that upset them. But there was obviously a great deal [1:08:53] of anger even before that. But we're going to have to work with the people in Pakistan to try and help [1:08:59] them move to a more responsible course than the one that they're on. And it's important for them. [1:09:04] It's important for the nuclear weapons. It's important for the success of Afghanistan. [1:09:08] Because inside Pakistan, you have a large group of Pashtuns that are Taliban. They're going to come [1:09:14] rushing back in to Afghanistan when we go. And that's one of the reasons the Afghan security forces [1:09:20] have so much work to do to be able to fight against that. But it's important for us to recognize [1:09:25] that we can't just walk away from Pakistan. But we do need to make sure that as we send support for [1:09:31] them, that this is tied to them making progress on matters that would lead them to becoming a civil [1:09:37] society. Let me ask you, Governor, because we know President Obama's position on this, what is [1:09:44] your position on the use of drones? Well, I believe that we should use any and all means necessary to [1:09:51] take out people who pose a threat to us and our friends around the world. And it's widely reported [1:09:57] that drones are being used in drone strikes. And I support that entirely and feel the president was [1:10:02] right to up the usage of that technology and believe that we should continue to use it to [1:10:06] continue to go after the people who represent a threat to this nation and to our friends. [1:10:11] Let me also note that, as I said earlier, we're going to have to do more than just going after leaders [1:10:15] and killing bad guys, important as that is, we're also going to have to have a far more effective [1:10:22] and comprehensive strategy to help move the world away from terror and Islamic extremism. [1:10:28] We haven't done that yet. We talk a lot about these things. But you look at the record, [1:10:32] you look at the record of the last four years and say, is Iran closer to a bomb? Yes. Is the Middle East [1:10:39] and Tumult? Yes. Is Al Qaeda on the run, on its heels? No. Are Israel and the Palestinians closer [1:10:48] to reaching a peace agreement? No. They haven't had talks in two years. We have not seen the progress [1:10:53] we need to have. And I'm convinced that with strong leadership and an effort to build a strategy based [1:11:00] upon helping these nations reject extremism, we can see the kind of peace and prosperity the world demands. [1:11:06] Well, keep in mind, our strategy wasn't just going after bin Laden. We've created partnerships [1:11:12] throughout the region to deal with extremism in Somalia, in Yemen, in Pakistan. And what we've also [1:11:20] done is engage these governments in the kind of reforms that are actually going to make a difference [1:11:26] in people's lives day to day, to make sure that their governments aren't corrupt, to make sure that [1:11:32] they are treating women with the kind of respect and dignity that every nation that succeeds has [1:11:38] shown, and to make sure that they've got a free market system that works. So across the board, [1:11:45] we are engaging them in building capacity in these countries, and we have stood on the side of [1:11:50] democracy. One thing I think Americans should be proud of, when Tunisians began to protest, [1:11:59] this nation, me, my administration, stood with them earlier than just about any other country. [1:12:07] In Egypt, we stood on the side of democracy. In Libya, we stood on the side of the people. And as a [1:12:13] consequence, there is no doubt that attitudes about Americans have changed. But there are always [1:12:20] going to be elements in these countries that potentially threaten the United States. And we [1:12:26] want to shrink those groups and those networks, and we can do that. But we're always also going to [1:12:31] have to maintain vigilance when it comes to terrorist activities. The truth, though, [1:12:35] is that al Qaeda is much weaker than it was when I came into office, and they don't have the same [1:12:41] capacities to attack the U.S. homeland and our allies as they did four years ago. [1:12:46] Let's go to the next segment, because it's a very important one. It is the rise of China and future [1:12:55] challenges for America. I want to just begin this by asking both of you, and Mr. President, you go first [1:13:03] this time. What do you believe is the greatest future threat to the national security of this country? [1:13:10] Well, I think it will continue to be terrorist networks. We have to remain vigilant, as I just [1:13:17] said. But with respect to China, China is both an adversary but also a potential partner in the [1:13:25] international community if it's following the rules. So my attitude coming into office was that we are [1:13:34] going to insist that China plays by the same rules as everybody else. And I know Americans had seen [1:13:41] jobs being shipped overseas, businesses and workers not getting a level playing field when it came to [1:13:48] trade. And that's the reason why I set up a trade task force to go after cheaters when it came to [1:13:56] international trade. That's the reason why we have brought more cases against China for violating trade [1:14:03] rules than the previous administration had done in two terms. And we've won just about every case [1:14:09] that we've filed that has been decided. In fact, just recently, steel workers in Ohio and throughout [1:14:16] the Midwest, Pennsylvania, are in a position now to sell steel to China because we won that case. [1:14:21] We had a tire case in which they were flooding us with cheap domestic tires or cheap Chinese tires. [1:14:29] And we put a stop to it. And as a consequence, save jobs throughout America. I have to say that [1:14:35] Governor Romney criticized me for being too tough in that tire case, said this wouldn't be good for [1:14:41] American workers and that it would be protectionist. But I tell you, those workers don't feel that way. [1:14:46] They feel as if they had finally an administration who was going to take this issue seriously. [1:14:52] Over the long term, in order for us to compete with China, we've also got to make sure though that [1:14:58] we're taking care of business here at home. If we don't have the best education system in the world, [1:15:03] if we don't continue to put money into research and technology that will allow us to create great [1:15:11] businesses here in the United States, that's how we lose the competition. And unfortunately, [1:15:15] Governor Romney's budget and his proposals would not allow us to make those investments. [1:15:20] All right. Governor. [1:15:21] Well, first of all, it's not government that makes business successful. It's not government [1:15:26] investments that make businesses grow and hire people. Let me also note that the greatest threat [1:15:31] that the world faces, the greatest national security threat, is a nuclear Iran. Let's talk about China. [1:15:38] China has an interest that's very much like ours in one respect, and that is they want a stable world. [1:15:44] They don't want war. They don't want to see protectionism. They don't want to see the world [1:15:50] break out into various forms of chaos because they have to manufacture goods and put people to work. [1:15:55] They have about 20 million people coming out of the farms every year, coming into the cities, [1:16:01] needing jobs. So they want the economy to work and the world to be free and open. And so we can be a [1:16:06] partner with China. We don't have to be an adversary in any way, shape or form. We can work with them. [1:16:12] We can collaborate with them if they're willing to be responsible. Now, they look at us and say, [1:16:18] is it a good idea to be with America? How strong are we going to be? How strong is our economy? They look at [1:16:24] the fact that we owe them a trillion dollars and owe other people 16 trillion in total, [1:16:28] including them. They look at our decision to cut back on our military capabilities, [1:16:34] a trillion dollars. The secretary of defense called these trillion dollars of cuts to our military [1:16:39] devastating. It's not my term. It's the president's own secretary of defense called them devastating. [1:16:44] They look at America's commitments around the world and they see what's happening and they say, [1:16:49] well, okay, is America going to be strong? And the answer is yes. If I'm president, America will be [1:16:54] very strong. We'll also make sure that we have trade relations with China that work for us. [1:17:01] I've watched year in and year out as companies have shut down and people have lost their jobs [1:17:07] because China has not played by the same rules, in part by holding down artificially the value of [1:17:12] their currency. It holds down the prices of their goods. It means our goods aren't as competitive [1:17:17] and we lose jobs. That's got to end. They're making some progress. They need to make more. [1:17:22] That's why on day one, I will label them a currency manipulator, which allows us to apply tariffs [1:17:28] where they're taking jobs. They're stealing our intellectual property, our patents, our designs, [1:17:33] our technology, hacking into our computers, counterfeiting our goods. They have to understand [1:17:39] we want to trade with them. We want a world that's stable. We like free enterprise, [1:17:43] but you've got to play by the rules. Well, Governor, let me just ask you, [1:17:47] if you declare them a currency manipulator on day one, some people are saying you're just going to [1:17:54] start a trade war with China on day one. Isn't there a risk that that could happen? [1:18:01] Well, they sell us about this much stuff every year and we sell them about this much stuff every year. [1:18:07] So it's pretty clear who doesn't want a trade war. And there's one going on right now, [1:18:10] which we don't know about. It's a silent one. And they're winning. We have enormous trade imbalance [1:18:15] with China. And it's worse this year than last year. And it's worse last year than the year before. [1:18:21] And so we have to understand that we can't just surrender and lose jobs year in and year out. [1:18:26] We have to say to our friends in China, look, you guys are playing aggressively. We understand it. [1:18:32] But this can't keep on going. You can't keep on holding down the value of your currency, [1:18:37] stealing our intellectual property, counterfeiting our products, selling them around the world, [1:18:42] even into the United States. I was with one company that makes valves in process industries. [1:18:48] And they said, look, we were having some valves coming in that were broken and we had to repair [1:18:53] them under warranty. And we looked them up and they had our serial number on them. And then we noticed [1:18:58] that there was more than one with that same serial number. There were counterfeit products being made [1:19:03] overseas with the same serial number as a U.S. company, the same packaging. These were [1:19:07] being sold into our market and around the world as if they were made by the U.S. competitor. [1:19:12] This can't go on. I want a great relationship with China. China can be our partner. But that doesn't [1:19:19] mean they can just roll all over us and steal our jobs on an unfair basis. [1:19:23] Well, Governor Romney is right. You are familiar with jobs being shipped overseas because you invested [1:19:28] in companies that were shipping jobs overseas. And you're right. I mean, that's how our free market works. [1:19:36] But I've made a different bet on American workers. Oh, if we had taken your advice, [1:19:42] Governor Romney, about our auto industry, we'd be buying cars from China instead of selling cars to [1:19:48] China. If we take your advice with respect to how we change our tax code so that companies that earn [1:19:53] profits overseas don't pay U.S. taxes compared to companies here that are paying taxes. Now, [1:20:00] that's estimated to create 800,000 jobs. The problem is they won't be here. They'll be in places like [1:20:04] China. And if we're not making investments in education and basic research, which is not [1:20:11] something that the private sector is doing at a sufficient pace right now and has never done, [1:20:16] then we will lose the lead in things like clean energy technology. Now, with respect to what we've [1:20:23] done with China already, U.S. exports have doubled since I came into office to China. And actually, [1:20:33] currencies are at their most advantageous point for U.S. exporters since 1993. We absolutely have [1:20:40] to make more progress. And that's why we're going to keep on pressing. And when it comes to our military [1:20:46] and Chinese security, part of the reason that we were able to pivot to the Asia-Pacific region [1:20:52] after having ended the war in Iraq and transitioning out of Afghanistan is precisely because [1:20:58] this is going to be a massive growth area in the future. And we believe China can be a partner, [1:21:03] but we're also sending a very clear signal that America is a Pacific power, that we are going to [1:21:10] have a presence there. We are working with countries in the region to make sure, for example, that ships [1:21:17] can pass through, that commerce continues. And we're organizing trade relations with countries other [1:21:25] than China so that China starts feeling more pressure about meeting basic international standards. [1:21:30] That's the kind of leadership we've shown in the region. That's the kind of leadership that we'll [1:21:34] continue to show. I just want to take one of those points. Again, attacking me is not talking about [1:21:41] an agenda for getting more trade and opening up more jobs in this country. But the president mentioned [1:21:47] the auto industry and that somehow I would be in favor of jobs being elsewhere. Nothing could be [1:21:51] further from the truth. I'm a son of Detroit. I was born in Detroit. My dad was head of a car company. [1:21:58] I like American cars. And I would do nothing to hurt the U.S. auto industry. My plan to get the [1:22:04] industry on its feet when it was in real trouble was not to start writing checks. It was President Bush [1:22:10] that wrote the first checks. I disagree with that. I said they need these companies need to go through a [1:22:14] managed bankruptcy. And in that process, they can get government help and government guarantees, [1:22:19] but they need to go through bankruptcy to get rid of excess cost and the debt burden that they'd built [1:22:24] up. And fortunately... Governor Romney, that's not what you said. You can take a look at the op-ed. [1:22:30] Governor Romney, you did not say that you would provide governor help. I said that we would provide [1:22:36] guarantees. And that was what was able to allow these companies to go through bankruptcy, to come out of [1:22:41] bankruptcy. Under no circumstances would I do anything other than to help this industry get on its feet. [1:22:47] And the idea that has been suggested that I would liquidate the industry? Of course not. Of course [1:22:53] not. Let's check the record. That's the height of silliness. I have never said I would liquidate [1:22:57] the industry. Governor, the people of Detroit don't forget. I want to keep the industry going and [1:23:00] thriving. And that's why I have the kind of commitment to make sure that our industries in [1:23:06] this country can compete and be successful. We in this country can compete successfully with anyone in [1:23:12] the world. And we're going to. We're going to have to have a president, however, that doesn't think [1:23:17] that somehow the government investing in car companies like Tesla and Fisker making electric [1:23:23] battery cars. This is not research, Mr. President. These are the government investing in companies. [1:23:28] Investing in Solyndra. This is a company. This isn't basic research. I want to invest in research. [1:23:35] Research is great. Providing funding to universities and think tanks, great. But investing in companies? [1:23:41] Absolutely not. That's the wrong way to go. I'm still speaking. So I want to make sure that we [1:23:46] make America more competitive and that we do those things that make America the most attractive place [1:23:52] in the world for entrepreneurs, innovators, businesses to grow. But your investing in companies [1:23:58] doesn't do that. In fact, it makes it less likely for them to come here because the private sector is [1:24:03] not going to invest in a solar company if you're investing in government money in someone else's. [1:24:09] The look, I think anybody out there can check the record. Governor Romney, you keep on trying to [1:24:18] airbrush history here. You were very clear that you would not provide government assistance [1:24:26] to the U.S. auto companies even if they went through bankruptcy. You said that they could get [1:24:31] it in the private marketplace. That wasn't true. They would have gone through a liquid. [1:24:35] You're wrong, Mr. President. No, I am not wrong. People can look it up. You're right. [1:24:39] People will look it up. But more importantly, it is true that in order for us to be competitive, [1:24:45] we're going to have to make some smart choices right now. Cutting our education budget, [1:24:50] that's not a smart choice. That will not help us compete with China. Cutting our investments in [1:24:55] research and technology, that's not a smart choice. That will not help us compete with China. [1:25:00] Bringing down our deficit by adding $7 trillion of tax cuts and military spending that our military [1:25:09] is not asking for before we even get to the debt that we currently have, that is not going to make [1:25:15] us more competitive. Those are the kinds of choices that the American people face right now. [1:25:20] Having a tax code that rewards companies that are shipping jobs overseas instead of companies that [1:25:25] are investing here in the United States, that will not make us more competitive. And the one thing that [1:25:30] I'm absolutely clear about is that after a decade in which we saw drift, jobs being shipped overseas, [1:25:39] nobody championing American workers and American businesses, we've now begun to make some real [1:25:43] progress. What we can't do is go back to the same policies that got us into such difficulty in the [1:25:51] first place. That's why we have to move forward and not go back. I couldn't agree more about going [1:25:57] forward, but I certainly don't want to go back to the policies of the last four years. The policies of the [1:26:02] last four years have seen incomes in America decline every year for middle-income families, [1:26:07] now down $4,300 during your term. 23 million Americans still struggling to find a good job. When [1:26:15] you came to office, 32 million people on food stamps. Today, 47 million people on food stamps. When you [1:26:21] came to office, just over $10 trillion in debt, now $16 trillion in debt. It hasn't worked. You said by [1:26:28] now we'd be at 5.4% unemployment. We're 9 million jobs short of that. I've met some of those people. [1:26:36] I've met them in Appleton, Wisconsin. I met a young woman in Philadelphia who's coming out of college, [1:26:42] can't find work. Ann was with someone just the other day that was just weeping about not being able [1:26:48] to get work. It's just a tragedy in a nation so prosperous as ours that these last four years have [1:26:54] been so hard. And that's why it's so critical that we make America once again the most attractive place [1:27:00] in the world to start businesses, to build jobs, to grow the economy. And that's not going to happen [1:27:06] by just hiring teachers. Look, I love to hire. I love teachers. And I'm happy to have states and [1:27:11] communities that want to hire teachers do that. By the way, I don't like to have the federal government [1:27:15] start pushing its way deeper and deeper into our schools. Let the states and localities do that. [1:27:20] I was a governor. The federal government didn't hire our teachers. But I love teachers. But I [1:27:24] want to get our private sector growing and I know how to do it. I think we all love teachers. [1:27:29] Gentlemen, thank you so much for a very vigorous debate. We have come to the end. It is time for [1:27:36] closing statements. I believe you're first, Mr. President. Well, thank you very much, Bob, [1:27:41] Governor Romney, and to Lynn University. You've now heard three debates, months of campaigning and [1:27:48] way too many TV commercials. And now you've got a choice. Over the last four years, we've made real [1:27:57] progress digging our way out of policies that gave us two prolonged wars, record deficits, [1:28:04] and the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression. And Governor Romney wants to take us [1:28:09] back to those policies, a foreign policy that's wrong and reckless, economic policies that won't create [1:28:15] jobs, won't reduce our deficit. But we'll make sure that folks at the very top don't have to play by the [1:28:21] same rules that you do. And I've got a different vision for America. I want to build on our strengths. [1:28:28] And I've put forward a plan to make sure that we're bringing manufacturing jobs back to our shores [1:28:33] by rewarding companies and small businesses that are investing here, not overseas. I want to make sure [1:28:39] we've got the best education system in the world. And we're retaining our workers for the jobs of [1:28:44] tomorrow. I want to control our own energy by developing oil and natural gas, but also the [1:28:51] energy sources of the future. Yes, I want to reduce our deficit by cutting spending that we don't need, [1:28:56] but also by asking the wealthy to do a little bit more so that we can invest in things like research [1:29:02] and technology that are the key to a 21st century economy. As commander in chief, I will maintain the [1:29:08] strongest military in the world, keep faith with our troops and go after those who would do us harm. [1:29:15] But after a decade of war, I think we all recognize we've got to do some nation-building [1:29:20] here at home, rebuilding our roads, our bridges, and especially caring for our veterans who sacrificed [1:29:26] so much for our freedom. You know, we've been through tough times, but we always bounce back [1:29:31] because of our character, because we pull together. And if I have the privilege of being your president [1:29:37] for another four years, I promise you I will always listen to your voices. I will fight for your [1:29:41] families, and I will work every single day to make sure that America continues to be the greatest [1:29:46] nation on earth. Thank you. Governor. Thank you. Bob, Mr. President, folks at [1:29:53] Lynn University, good to be with you. I'm optimistic about the future. I'm excited about our prospects [1:29:59] as a nation. I want to see peace. I want to see growing peace in this country. It's our objective. [1:30:05] We have an opportunity to have real leadership. America is going to have that kind of leadership [1:30:10] and continue to promote principles of peace that will make a world a safer place and make people [1:30:15] in this country more confident that their future is secure. I also want to make sure that we get [1:30:21] this economy going. And there are two very different paths the country can take. One is a path represented [1:30:27] by the president, which at the end of four years would mean we'd have $20 trillion in debt heading [1:30:32] towards Greece. I'll get us on track to a balanced budget. The president's path will mean continuing [1:30:38] declining in take-home pay. I want to make sure our take-home pay turns around and starts to grow. [1:30:43] The president's path means 20 million people out of work struggling for a good job. I'll get people [1:30:49] back to work with 12 million new jobs. I'm going to make sure that we get people off of food stamps, [1:30:55] not by cutting the program, but by getting them good jobs. America's going to come back. And for that [1:31:00] to happen, we're going to have to have a president who can work across the aisle. I was in a state where my [1:31:06] legislature was 87 percent Democrat. I learned how to get along on the other side of the aisle. We've [1:31:12] got to do that in Washington. Washington is broken. I know what it takes to get this country back. And [1:31:17] we'll work with good Democrats and good Republicans to do that. This nation is the hope of the earth. [1:31:24] We've been blessed by having a nation that's free and prosperous thanks to the contributions of the [1:31:30] greatest generation. They've held a torch for the world to see, a torch of freedom and hope and [1:31:35] opportunity. Now it's our turn to take that torch. I'm convinced we'll do it. We need strong leadership. [1:31:42] I'd like to be that leader with your support. I'll work with you. I'll lead you in an open and [1:31:48] honest way. And I ask for your vote. I'd like to be the next president of the United States to support [1:31:53] and help this great nation and to make sure that we all together maintain America as the hope of the [1:31:58] earth. Thank you so much. Gentlemen, thank you both so much. That brings an end to this year's [1:32:04] debates. And we want to thank Lynn University and its students for having us. As I always do at the [1:32:10] end of these debates, I leave you with the words of my mom who said, go vote. Makes you feel big and [1:32:17] strong. That's great. Good night. [1:32:23] you