ESPN FC debates Chelsea’s transfer policy amid Marc Cucurella’s comments [FULL SHOW]

[0:00] Hello and welcome into the latest edition of ESPN FC. [0:04] Kay Murray, Shekhar Hislop and Stevie Nicol here in the studio. [0:08] Lots to talk about tonight, we've got a mixed bag for you, [0:11] but we are starting with Chelsea in the Premier League. [0:14] We do have Luis Garcia, yep, thumbs up there from him. [0:17] He's in Madrid ahead of a big game this weekend [0:19] and Don Hutchison is joining us too. [0:21] We'll be hearing more from both of them in a minute. [0:24] But as we look to domestic football returning, [0:27] he's a reminder of how Chelsea are faring this season. [0:30] They are sixth in the Premier League as it stands right now, [0:33] still in the FA Cup, in the EFL Cup, they were eliminated by Arsenal [0:37] and they just came out of the Champions League [0:39] before the international break to PSG. [0:42] Well, Marco Correa has been talking to The Athletic this week, [0:45] this is what he's had to say, about Chelsea's transfer policy. [0:49] He says signing young players only might complicate [0:52] fighting for major trophies. [0:54] Against PSG, we lacked players that had gone through situations like that. [0:58] I understand this is part of the club's [1:00] policy, looking to the future, but for all of us who are still here [1:03] and want to win big things, moments like this make you feel discouraged. [1:09] It's obviously to do with the model and specifically concerning [1:12] the centering around youth when it comes to Chelsea. [1:15] What do you think when you see that, Xhaka? [1:17] I think Cucurella has a point. [1:19] Now, the ownership group with Clearlake or Blueco, whoever it is, [1:24] they've kind of, they have their approach [1:27] and they've kind of set their stall out. [1:29] Cucurella talks about it. [1:30] Young players coming in. [1:31] So from a business perspective, maybe they can't be as criticized as you would [1:37] from a footballing perspective. [1:39] Signing young players with a knife of the future and the cell on putting them [1:43] on relatively low wages, but long contracts, I guess, from a business perspective, [1:49] makes sense. [1:50] From a footballing perspective, it does not. [1:52] Footballers want to win things now. [1:55] Fans want to see their club win things now. [1:58] You can sell them a project a year or two in advance. [2:01] You cannot sell fans seven or eight years' time. [2:04] We'll be all right. [2:06] And that's a balancing act. [2:07] And that's, the big clubs get that just right. [2:11] This new ownership group, again, has not. [2:15] Maybe following in the footsteps of Abramovich and how he did things [2:19] and how quickly things changed. [2:21] But they certainly have not found that balance. [2:26] So I fully understand the frustration of Cucurella. [2:29] And as I say, I think it's a frustration felt. [2:32] Far wider than just a dressing room. [2:34] Don't you surprise that a player has actually said this out aloud, [2:36] like Marco Cucurella has? [2:39] Yeah, I don't think it's a good look. [2:42] I think it's been a theme of Chelsea's players this season. [2:45] Enzo Fernandes comes into that conversation as well, [2:48] where they feel as though maybe Chelsea are a stepping stone [2:51] to try and go elsewhere, which shows the standards [2:55] of Chelsea Football Club over the last five years or so. [2:59] Cucurella, when he was signed, was a young player. [3:01] So he's only saying things that us pundits, [3:03] and us in the media, have known for a long time, [3:06] that you can get by and you can have the project of signing young players. [3:09] And young players will take you so far, [3:12] but young players will be inconsistent. [3:14] That's what happens when you're young. [3:15] You need to mature into being top players. [3:17] If they keep signing young players, [3:19] they're going to stay at a certain level. [3:21] But I do feel as though he's a little bit out of order, [3:24] speaking about board and the priorities and the ownership, [3:28] when he's getting paid an awful lot of money to play for Chelsea. [3:31] Does this give us a little idea as to what's being said inside? [3:33] The dressing room, if this is being said to the public? [3:36] A hundred percent. A hundred percent. [3:38] It's amazing, isn't it? [3:39] Football might be the only industry [3:42] where the worker can complain about the bosses [3:45] and not get the bullet. [3:47] I mean, it really is, isn't it? [3:48] You know, we had Enzo Fernandes a couple of weeks ago [3:52] saying similar things. [3:53] Now we've got Cucurella saying the same things. [3:57] And what the owners are doing, [3:58] they're not helping the players on the field to succeed. [4:02] I would be interested to know [4:05] the owners, yes, we know about this policy, [4:07] and when they came in, [4:09] they decided that they were going the youth side. [4:12] Are they going to hold on to the Enzo Fernandeses [4:16] and the Caicedos and five or six other guys [4:19] when they really hit their maturity and keep them? [4:23] And then you build around that with the youth [4:25] so that it is a six or seven year plan. [4:28] That's the real question now. [4:30] Because clearly they just emptied the decks, [4:33] and all these young guys, [4:35] and so eventually they're going to mature, [4:37] and be the experienced players that a team needs to succeed, [4:43] whether it's Premier League or Champions League, [4:45] because I'm assuming that's what they want. [4:47] They don't want to win the Conference League, you know. [4:50] So that would be my question to the owners. [4:52] I understand the policy to begin with, [4:55] but now you've had a point where, [4:57] OK, are you wanting to take the next step? [4:59] And if you do want to take the next step, [5:01] that's what it is. [5:03] What do you think of it, Luis? [5:04] What your fellow Spaniard has had to say here about Chelsea? [5:10] We all understand. [5:11] I understand the frustration. [5:12] I kind of don't get on these days [5:15] why all the players have something to say [5:16] about the club, the signing, [5:18] because in the end you have to perform on the field. [5:20] And apart from that, [5:22] try to understand what they are doing. [5:24] If you don't understand, [5:25] you should keep it in-house. [5:27] That's the way that I was growing up. [5:30] That's the way that I understood football. [5:31] That's the way that I think that things should be done. [5:34] If you are not happy by the way that things are doing, [5:36] just make a meeting with the rest of the team, [5:40] with the board, [5:41] and put it on the table. [5:43] Going outside and putting these kind of things [5:45] to the rest of the public [5:46] just generates a lot more confusion. [5:48] I understand that when you are not getting closer to trophies, [5:51] you are frustrated, you look around, [5:53] but what that means is that you've got young players [5:57] that maybe are not ready to fight for the trophy, [6:00] that they don't have enough quality, [6:02] that they are not there to fight for all the trophies. [6:07] I think the Chelsea history has shown that there was a period, [6:11] a short period that they managed to get trophies, [6:14] but in a long range for the past 20-50 years, [6:19] we know what is the history of Chelsea. [6:22] It's not a team that has been winning trophies every single weekend. [6:25] What is success for Chelsea on these days? [6:27] Getting closer to the Champions League right now, [6:29] they have the option to get into the Champions League position. [6:33] I understand the frustration, [6:35] but if you want to build a strong team [6:38] and you are believing in the youth, [6:40] I think the first thing you need to do is to build a strong team. [6:41] I think the first thing you need to do is to build a strong team. [6:41] I think the first thing you need to do is to build a strong team. [6:41] I think the first thing you need to do is to build a strong team. [6:41] The first thing is not pointed out against the youth. [6:43] It's about pointing out why the plan is not starting from [6:49] having a manager for a long period, [6:52] having an understanding of what you want, [6:54] the vision that you want to have for the future, [6:57] and keeping on that. [6:58] In the moment, after six months, you change it, [7:00] it doesn't matter how many players. [7:01] It doesn't matter if you bring Lionel Messi, Mbappe and Neymar [7:04] that Paris Saint-Germain had, [7:06] because the success is not going to be there. [7:08] If you believe in the youth and you believe in your vision [7:10] and what is your target, [7:11] your target in the long range, [7:14] it's not about the players that you bring, [7:15] it's about what are you doing with those players. [7:19] It's a perfect segue into a little more [7:21] on what Mark Kukure had to say. [7:23] This is what he was talking about [7:25] when we heard he had some comments on Maresca. [7:29] He said, [7:29] when a manager gives you that confidence [7:30] and offers you a platform to fight for titles, [7:32] you die for him. [7:34] The moment Maresca left, it had a big impact on us. [7:36] These are decisions taken by the club. [7:38] If you asked me, I would not have made this decision. [7:41] To make a change like that, [7:42] the best thing is to wait until the end of the season. [7:46] The instability around the club comes from this in a nutshell [7:49] and that leads on, Stevie, to what you were saying. [7:51] This is Enzo Fernandes who'd also said something along the lines [7:54] of knowing what the whole plan was under Maresca [7:57] and now having to deal with a new manager again. [8:00] I think what he says is absolutely 100% correct, [8:04] but it goes back to what we've just all been saying. [8:07] Keep your mouth shut. [8:08] If you've got a problem, go and ask somebody. [8:10] Keep it in the building. [8:12] There's nothing wrong with having a problem [8:14] with something that's going on at your club, [8:15] but there's a way to go about either changing it [8:19] or you move on yourself if you don't like it that much. [8:22] So, yeah, what he's saying is correct, [8:24] but he shouldn't be saying this in public. [8:26] It's just all it does is all the things that we've been saying [8:30] is all the things that Enzo Fernandes and now Kukere has been saying. [8:36] So, actually, we're not too far off the mark. [8:38] Why are we hearing it from so many players, though? [8:41] There's got to be something more to this. [8:43] Well, part of the reason... [8:44] The issue is the more things change, the more they stay the same. [8:46] Back in our day, you knew you'd go on international break, [8:50] somebody was going to go back to their home country, [8:51] do an interview, and a week or two later, [8:54] that interview would filter through [8:56] and it would be criticising whether it was his club [8:58] or his teammates, whatever it is. [9:00] Roll the clock forward, was it, 30, 40 years, [9:03] and nothing's changed, really. [9:05] Despite social media and the immediacy of it, [9:08] players go away to international duty [9:10] and do interviews in their native languages [9:12] with reporters. [9:13] Maybe they're comfortable. [9:14] Maybe they're comfortable with... [9:15] And these things come out. [9:17] But, again, to Steve's point, [9:20] I do not disagree with a single thing Kukerela says. [9:24] I really don't. [9:25] And it's true. [9:27] And the other aspect to this is, [9:29] well, we can sit here and say, [9:31] listen, as a player, you really shouldn't be talking about this publicly, [9:34] which is right. [9:35] If you are a little bit frustrated [9:37] and you're thinking, I can engineer a move here, [9:40] you say what you want. [9:42] Because, to Stevie's point, [9:43] players are on contracts, you move him on. [9:47] You know, that's what he's looking for. [9:49] There are ways, again, [9:50] that players kind of go about their business [9:53] in terms of, you know, [9:54] I'm kind of pushing for a move. [9:58] These are the kind of things you do [9:59] almost every single time. [10:00] Yeah, we're taking names now, Don, [10:02] because speaking to Alexis Nunes, [10:04] we had Malo Gusto also talking about Maresca. [10:06] Now we've just heard the latest from Marco Carrella there. [10:09] We've got Enzo Fernandez. [10:11] So this is a number of players [10:12] speaking to a number of reporters [10:13] on the scene. [10:14] They've done this international break [10:15] about the same topic. [10:19] Yeah, they weren't exactly moaning [10:20] when they signed their seven-year contract, [10:22] so were they? [10:23] Listen, I think it would carry more weight [10:25] if it was a John Terry or Ashley Cole, [10:28] you know, with all due respect to Marco Carrella. [10:31] He's not in that bracket. [10:32] He's not an elite left-back, in my opinion. [10:34] So him and Gusto and Enzo Fernandez. [10:37] Enzo Fernandez is probably the one [10:39] where he's talking about maybe he's living in Madrid. [10:41] He might have got sidetracked by a question. [10:43] I agree with Shaka. [10:44] I've sat there in the Scottish press [10:46] many, many years ago [10:47] and you have a cup of coffee [10:48] and they ask you a few questions [10:50] and everything's a little bit nice [10:51] and all of a sudden they'll hit you with a, [10:53] oh, which team do you like to watch? [10:54] Say, look, the Rangers. [10:55] You drop the Rangers in [10:56] and all of a sudden the next morning [10:57] Hutchison wants to sign for Rangers. [10:59] So you can sort of get sucked into the conversation, [11:02] but it can't be just like [11:05] when three players are coming out [11:06] having the same conversation about the board. [11:09] You know, we're all experienced people. [11:11] We know the game. [11:11] And when all of us are saying the same thing [11:13] about what Cucurella and Enzo Fernandez [11:16] and Gusto are saying, [11:17] it's essentially right. [11:18] That would lead me to the job [11:20] that the sporting directors are doing. [11:22] Because if we can sit here and say, [11:23] well, Chelsea are signing young players [11:24] and it's not going to work, [11:26] why are the sporting directors giving Maresca [11:28] and giving Resenha young players to work with? [11:31] They need experienced players. [11:32] So you'd question the job that they're doing. [11:35] Yeah, absolutely. [11:35] But it gets to the point, Luis, [11:37] when you wonder if they do have a point. [11:40] You know, we keep hearing it. [11:41] It feels like we're going to keep hearing it. [11:45] Yeah, exactly. [11:46] And it's something that has been around [11:47] in the dressing room for sure. [11:49] When three players are coming out [11:50] and talking about the same topic, [11:53] it's because that's been a talking point [11:55] inside the dressing room. [11:56] Because they felt good playing under Maresca. [12:00] Because right now, [12:01] maybe they are not in the right spot [12:03] because they are not feeling the same way. [12:05] Because think about it. [12:06] The guys are talking right now [12:08] about Enzo Maresca that is not there, [12:09] how good they were feeling, [12:11] why he was sacked and this kind of situation. [12:14] What that says about Liam, [12:16] about the new manager, [12:17] I think that's something [12:18] that they should think also about. [12:20] You've got a new manager, [12:21] normally what you say, [12:22] no, we are trying to do the best, [12:24] we are trying to improve, [12:25] Liam is bringing something different, [12:26] blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. [12:27] That's what you're trying to do. [12:28] In the moment that you start talking about [12:30] a manager that is not even into the club, [12:33] it's because there was a shocking moment, [12:36] there was something important for them [12:37] and maybe that didn't help [12:39] on the way of this Chelsea, [12:42] how this Chelsea was moving forward. [12:44] So right now, it's again starting from scratch. [12:48] That's something that for a Premier League team, [12:50] for a team that is trying to achieve trophies, [12:52] it's going to help them at all. [12:54] You know, I was thinking about Chelsea in the past, [13:00] winning Champions League, winning Premier League, [13:03] they were getting rid of managers left, right and centre. [13:06] So it just shows you that, again, [13:08] all the things we've been talking about, [13:09] how this side doesn't have the experience [13:12] at the highest level to take that next step. [13:15] That's the problem, [13:16] because they've got as many new managers [13:18] as the old Chelsea did that was winning Champions League. [13:21] Players aren't, they aren't experienced enough, [13:24] they don't have that knowledge on the field [13:27] where they're always looking to the sideline. [13:30] And so when you've got younger players [13:33] who are looking to the sideline [13:34] and every time they look at the sideline, [13:36] there's a different face with a different hem sheet. [13:39] So there's no surprise that they're just struggling [13:42] to get in the Champions League. [13:43] Forget winning the Premier League, [13:45] forget winning the Champions League, [13:47] this team is kind of rudderless right now. [13:50] And it's not just because they keep changing managers, [13:52] it's because the players don't have, [13:54] they don't, they're not mature enough [13:56] and there's not enough of them have that experience [13:59] in order to pass the knowledge on [14:01] or to take the next step in terms of going for titles. [14:05] But what about winning the FA Cup, Stevie? [14:07] Well, that's what they're reduced to. [14:09] They're taking on Port Vale [14:11] and you will be able to see that game on ESPN Plus on Saturday. [14:14] We have these games, Man City against Liverpool, [14:17] kicking things off. [14:18] Also Southampton against Arsenal later that day. [14:21] And on Sunday, it's West Ham taking on Leeds. [14:24] So Italy are still reeling from failing to qualify [14:27] for the World Cup for the third time in a row. [14:31] And maybe you saw our podcast title this week, [14:33] which said, all roads lead to home for Italy, not Rome. [14:38] Great work from our team there. [14:40] Pretty much what all the top papers are saying in Italy as well. [14:44] Let's talk more about this then. [14:46] Don Hutchison, an adopted Italian. [14:48] It has to be said, still with us. [14:51] Luis Garcia with us as well. [14:52] All right, Don, let's get your reaction. [14:54] First and foremost, because we see that you've been pretty vocal [14:57] and pretty active on X following this elimination. [15:02] Well, obviously it's embarrassing. [15:04] You know, I think the conversation would last two or three hours [15:07] if you're having a serious debate on what's happening with the national side. [15:10] But when you look on the face of it, it feels like they've lost their DNA. [15:13] When you close your eyes, you think about the strongest Italian teams. [15:17] You think about Italian defenders that are rugged, [15:19] not like Bastoni or Calafiori, where and I'm not singling them out [15:22] because they're good footballers, but the Italian defenders were Italian [15:25] defenders and they've lost the ability to find the number 10s. [15:30] They've lost the ability to find Baggio's, find Del Piero's, [15:34] find Gianfranco Zola's, these guys that were Mavericks. [15:37] Now, what I would guarantee is that these kids are out there in the schools, [15:42] these Baggio's and these Del Piero's are out there in the schools. [15:45] So the Italian F.A. [15:46] and the teachers and the coaches at the young level have to make sure [15:51] when they identify these young kids that are ultra talented is not to knock that out. [15:56] And turn them into athletes. [15:57] Because when you look at the Italian national side now, [16:00] it feels like they're caught between trying to play like in a Premier League [16:04] type football where it's a little bit long ball, it's a little bit athletes, [16:07] it's a little bit runners. [16:09] Because, you know, if you look at Fratesi, for example, [16:12] he's probably the best number 10 that the Azzurri have got. [16:15] He's a runner who runs in the box. [16:17] He's not Baggio. [16:18] He's not Del Piero. [16:20] He's not Gianfranco Zola. [16:21] He's not an elite Maverick number 10 that's ultra skillful or totty, if you like. [16:26] So I think the Italian side, when you look at the graphic there, [16:29] which three World Cups in a row is just an all time low. [16:33] I think when you look on the face of it, these kids have to be out there. [16:38] You know, I don't buy that the talent's not there. [16:41] It might have to come for a completely new generation. [16:44] But the important thing now for the Italian coaches is when they find this group of kids [16:50] who might be 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, whatever age they are, [16:53] make them into and let them be the players they want to be. [16:57] Don't knock it out of them and don't say, [16:59] well, you're not going to make it into Serie A if you can run, [17:02] if you can fight, if you're six foot. [17:04] Find these players, you know, embrace that these kids are going to be cultured [17:09] and, you know, being fantastic young footballers, let them express themselves. [17:13] It's a couple of hour conversation. [17:15] But that on the face of it, when you think Italian defenders are not rugged enough anymore, [17:20] they're turning into Premier League players where they want to fight and win duels [17:24] and they're not bringing through number nines and number tens. [17:27] Do you know what dawns on? [17:28] You can look across the planet, certainly in Europe, particularly, and that's what's happening. [17:34] In my opinion, that invention and every great player has something unique about themselves. [17:45] And it seems all the things done there is basically saying they're getting all that coached at them. [17:51] Too many young kids, too many players today are getting so overcoached, in my opinion. [17:58] And that's particularly one of the biggest reasons [18:00] why the Italians are struggling, because they don't have any of those players. [18:03] But they're not alone. [18:04] You look around Europe, there's not that many. [18:06] How many players can we sit real and talk about being world class in terms of the final third, [18:12] in terms of skill, in terms of being as good as all those players that Dawn spoke about? [18:17] There's none, because they're all getting overcoached. [18:20] And it's happening across, particularly Europe. [18:23] I can't speak for the African nations, but in terms of Europe, you just watch European football. [18:28] There's none of those players around. [18:31] Luis, we're definitely still seeing these technical players coming through. [18:35] Is it happening in Spain? [18:36] Are you seeing anything like that? [18:40] Yes, it is happening. [18:42] Of course, we are a country where we've been working so many years on the development of tactical players, [18:50] on technical players, and we don't have that strength, that speed that other countries had. [18:56] So we have to adapt to those kind of situations. [18:58] But we can see it on our academies, on the formation of the players, [19:03] in the moment that a kid is a little bit taller and stronger, [19:07] it's going to be ahead of the one who is weaker, smaller, maybe a little bit more technically gifted. [19:14] But it's going to be put on the side, because what you want when you're a kid, [19:19] and what the manager wants, is to get the result. [19:21] And we are losing a little bit of that creativity. [19:23] If we go back 20 years, 30 years, you could find five, six, seven players with so much talent, [19:30] quality and technique in every single team. [19:32] Not three, four, five. [19:33] Three teams in every single team of the league. [19:35] And we can find that because that's the way that football is driving. [19:39] We are moving to a more faster and stronger. [19:44] And we want players who, if you have a look, the managers want the players that now get 35, 36 kilometres in the spring. [19:52] How many times in the spring, how much time they can be on the field because they are going to play many games. [19:57] So in the end, we are looking for that. [19:58] And we are forgetting that football is about what you do with the ball [20:03] You can think we continue developing a lot of talented players. [20:07] And I think the Italy should start moving on that direction. [20:10] Of course, they got a different, different academies. [20:13] They got a different infrastructure, something that they need to look at. [20:17] I'm not saying that they have to copy Spain because that's not where you have to work. [20:19] What do you got in the style of football that you have? [20:22] But I think that even Spain has developed how to adapt to the new football. [20:26] That's why the results are rapid once again. [20:29] I think that not long ago we saw exactly the same with Germany. [20:33] We saw a re-adaptation to what football is demanding right now. [20:37] And that starts from that, because if not, it's sad. [20:40] It's really sad and disappointing to see Italy that has been one of the most iconic national teams in the World Cup and in the Euros. [20:49] Don't be involved in a competition like the World Cup in this year. [20:53] But even with all of this, Xhaka, this record, I mean, it's the only team, it's the only defending champion that's not qualified for three straight World Cups. [21:01] And why are we finding fault with? [21:04] Italy over the last, over that period of three World Cups, somehow managed to win a Euros in between all that as well. [21:10] So it speaks to, I guess, talent at one level, but a failing on another in terms of qualifying. [21:18] Now, from an Italian perspective, I always feel, you know, we could talk about the overcoaching, [21:23] but then you see the natural talent shine through with the Spanish national team, with the French national team. [21:29] I understand Don's point about athletes and, well, with the English team, [21:34] and how it relates to the Premier League. [21:36] Now, Italian football, again, is not enjoying its heyday. [21:42] I'll put that as nicely as I possibly can. [21:45] And you just wonder how that affects the identity of this national team. [21:49] Because, well, OK, fair enough, in 2024, they come up against a once-in-a-generational Norway team who were just absolutely outstanding. [21:57] They finished second, but then they go and blow it to Bosnia-Herzegovina. [22:02] Four years ago, they finished second. [22:04] They go to Switzerland, and then they go and blow it to, I guess, North Macedonia on Italian soil. [22:08] Now, in games that they dominated, Norway apart, those games that I mentioned, Italy absolutely dominated. [22:16] And I just wonder if it's kind of gone away from the Italian stereotype of how they play. [22:24] Very good defensively, very well organised, but then also, to Don's point, [22:30] without the finishers that we know Italian football have. [22:34] They have produced team after team, generation after generation, it seems. [22:40] I think I'm right in saying that in the game against North Macedonia, they outshot North Macedonia 32-4, something ridiculous like that. [22:49] And that speaks to a lack of finishing. [22:51] You can't give Baggio or Del Piero 30 shots and not concede six. [22:57] And I guess that is where the falling comes down. [23:01] You do not have those finishers. [23:04] You don't have an identity to fall back on. [23:06] You know what, Shaq, you can't argue with the previous two, what you said there. [23:11] But this game against Bosnia was embarrassing. [23:13] They got battered. [23:15] They got battered. Bosnia had 31 shots. [23:17] They had 31 shots. [23:19] So the first two, you would think that after the first one, it would be, hold on a second. [23:27] You would definitely think after the second time you don't qualify, we need to clear the ball to you and start again. [23:32] But no, they didn't. [23:34] And now, the third one, you can't... [23:36] You can't say you were unlucky, you can't say you don't have a finisher, you can't say we defended well. [23:42] You can't say any of that. [23:43] You just got battered and outplayed by Bosnia-Herzegovina, who are a bang-arvy side. [23:49] So, yeah, I agree with the first two. [23:52] But this one? [23:53] No, it's just down to bad football players. [23:56] That's what it's down to. [23:57] Francesco Totti's been talking about it, Don, and he says that, you know, there's been no distractions in his day. [24:03] There was no obsession with image. [24:05] No need to live on social media. [24:06] Just football, just pride, just responsibility to the badge. [24:10] He even goes on to talk about distraction by fame, by tattoos, by the celebrity lifestyle. [24:15] But it's not as if, like, we're seeing that across the board in all of the countries. [24:18] We're seeing that all of these players know the celebrity lifestyle now and social media and tattoos or whatever it may be that he's saying here. [24:25] Isn't it just coming down to the simple fact that they're just not as good as the Totties and all those players that we grew up watching? [24:32] Not correct. [24:34] I think he makes a point from... [24:38] Obviously, the culture that he grew up in, but times have moved on. [24:41] Times have changed. [24:42] Young players are free now to express themselves on social media, and they do it. [24:47] And it's their sort of... [24:48] It's their break away from the pressure. [24:50] So I get what he's saying, because he's an old school, you know, footballer like we are. [24:54] So you can sort of lend yourself to that conversation. [24:56] But when you know the game's moved on and all players are doing it, you're right, Kay. [25:02] When you look at the group of players that, you know, played you the day. [25:05] I mean, my biggest take when I saw the line-up come in was Rateghi starting for the second game in a row over Esposito. [25:12] That was the no-no for me. [25:15] When Rateghi come off in the game before and Esposito... [25:17] Oh, come on. [25:18] He was a bright young player. [25:20] And it goes against a little bit the grain that we're saying. [25:22] You know, he's physical. [25:22] He's a big number nine, but he's in form and he's confident. [25:25] So how Rateghi kept his place over Esposito, I'll never know. [25:29] But going back to the Calafioris and the Bastogne... [25:32] These are not Bonucci's. [25:33] These are not Chiellini's. [25:35] These are not guys that are willing to die for that shirt. [25:37] And I mean that metaphorically where, you know, they would go down to nine men if they needed to. [25:42] But stopping the opposition scoring was the most important thing and making sure you get the job done. [25:49] Times have moved on now and players are different and they're built different. [25:53] But it has to be a root and branch thing. [25:55] I go back to the youth. [25:57] It has to be better. [25:58] But you fast forward all that and you go to the conversation why they haven't qualified. [26:02] You look at the players. [26:02] And I still think they're good enough. [26:05] I just think the pressure was too much for them. [26:07] As soon as I saw that it went to pens, I thought that shirt is a heavy shirt. [26:12] When you haven't qualified for two World Cups in a row and you've gone to penalties, I never fancied Italy to go through. [26:18] Just because of the pressure and how much it really means to the Italian fans and the players and the manager and Gattuso and his backroom staff. [26:26] It was just too much. [26:28] And it's something that they've just got to get over. [26:30] And it's a hurdle that they've got to cross. [26:32] They've got to get over it. Otherwise, it's too much. [26:32] Otherwise, it's going to be four and otherwise it's going to be another Euros. [26:36] So something has to happen and something has to change. [26:40] Yeah, make sure to check out the Gavin Jules podcast. [26:42] A lot more talk about Italy and their failures over there. [26:46] Check it out wherever you get your podcasts. [26:49] Over on the website, Ryan O'Hanlon has been ranking the 2026 World Cup teams. [26:56] These are his rankings. [26:57] And we wanted to cast your eyes over number 22, which is where he puts the United States right now. [27:04] Obviously, the usual suspects are among the top. [27:07] They're the ones that are among the favourites when it comes to the odds makers as well. [27:10] But I'm wondering what you guys think, starting with you, Shak, about the United States at 22. [27:15] Not overly surprising. [27:18] If we had this conversation earlier in the year, coming off the back of the friendlies of 2024, where the United States beat Uruguay so convincingly, maybe you see them higher up. [27:28] But it has been a very disappointing window this time around, in those two games against Portugal and Belgium. [27:32] But it has been a very disappointing window this time around, in those two games against Portugal and Belgium. [27:33] But it has been a very disappointing window this time around, in those two games against Portugal and Belgium. [27:34] where I think Pochettino gave us a whole lot more questions than answers [27:40] in the last window before the World Cup. [27:43] Added to that, with Turkey looking forward to the World Cup, [27:47] with Turkey qualifying, which they were favourite two into this group, [27:53] I'll say the same thing as I did when they made the draw. [27:56] In that group that includes Australia, Paraguay and Turkey, [28:00] all four teams fancied themselves to go through, if not top the group. [28:04] So even as a host, as we sit right now, I'm not overly confident. [28:13] I won't put my neck on a chopping block that the US are going to qualify out of this group. [28:18] Is that too high or too low, though, number 22? [28:22] Given what we've seen over the last week, that is right where they should be. [28:27] Do you know that third group from 21 down, from Sweden down, [28:31] you could just throw them up in the air and the way they landed would be probably right. [28:35] Because they're all pretty much... [28:38] They're all in the same position. [28:40] You don't know, when they step on the field, what you're going to get. [28:44] You don't. [28:45] There's not one of them from Sweden all the way down, [28:48] do you know what you're going to get. [28:50] From one to 20, I think you've got an idea. [28:53] But that last group, I couldn't tell you. [28:56] You know what you're getting from number 26, though. [28:59] Not a lot. [29:00] You know you're getting nothing. [29:04] Is that fair for Scotland, number 26, just while we are here? [29:08] Well, it could be 21. [29:10] It could be 30. [29:13] Because all of those teams, you're not Scooby what you're getting. [29:17] Too high or too low for you, Luis, for the US? [29:22] No, I'm with the guys. I think that is right there. [29:24] Honestly, I'm surprised because just in the last World Cup, [29:29] when we saw this young generation with all those politics [29:33] and a generation where we could feel, Tyler Adams, that they were going to do it. [29:38] They were going to be strong. [29:39] They were going to make a big statement in the World Cup. [29:42] I was really encouraged and I was really excited about what they could bring. [29:48] But there's been so many changes. [29:50] There have been so many things happening in the last four years, well, two years that I'm really surprised [29:55] that at this stage, really close, just a few months to the World Cup, [29:59] we are no more excited about this national team. [30:01] I don't know what is the real fact, why we cannot see the United States closer to being a favourite. [30:09] I understand that they are a lot bigger national teams, [30:12] that they are going to be better. [30:12] I understand that they are a lot bigger national teams, that they are going to be better. [30:12] I understand that they are a lot bigger national teams, that they are going to be better. [30:12] I understand that they are a lot bigger national teams, that they are going to be better. [30:13] I understand that they are a lot bigger national teams, that they are going to be better. [30:13] I understand that they are a lot bigger national teams, that they are going to be better. [30:15] But I was expecting, we can see Ecuador, we can see Japan, we can see Colombia, [30:21] even ahead of the United States. [30:23] And I was expecting maybe into the 15th, closer to that, [30:28] the United States to be maybe in that situation. [30:31] But right now, and I agree with Xhaka, it's been a little bit disappointing to see the last result. [30:36] But again, things can change very quickly. [30:39] When you play at home, when you play with your crowd, it's going to be something [30:42] A World Cup is a World Cup, so hopefully we can see a better face of this team, [30:48] and because the quality is there, so hopefully we can see a better start. [30:52] What's your take on it, Don? Too high, too low? [30:56] I think it's about right. I think what Lewis is saying is right. [30:59] I think in an ideal world, with better form, they should be looking to be in that middle bracket. [31:02] But when you look at the team that's just above them, Sweden, [31:05] I mean, they've got Jokkares, they've got Anthony Alanga, they've got Alexander Isak. [31:10] So, you look at what the national side of America have got to play with, with all due respect. [31:16] I think that's it. It is where they are, but with a decent World Cup behind them with form [31:23] and home fans, as Lewis said, they can try and break into that middle bracket. [31:27] But I've got no confidence in them. [31:29] Not that I've seen a million USA games, but I've seen a lot of the other sides that are in the first bracket, [31:34] second bracket, and Scotland being a few places away from them. [31:38] I think... didn't Pochettino say semi-final? [31:40] No, he didn't. Didn't Pochettino say semi-final? [31:40] I think... didn't Pochettino say semi-final? [31:40] finals the other day did I read that the other day yep we believe that we could get the semis [31:50] yeah he believes that they can win okay well as we know that's Ryan O'Hanlon's rankings anyway [31:55] but when it comes to rankings there's only one man who we should be focusing on and that's [32:00] with his power rankings take it away Shaq as I told you all this week I think France going to [32:06] win it Spain Spain and Argentina second and third best teams in the world England fourth no question [32:11] Portugal I was impressed with us over them that this window so they're up to five as I was with [32:15] the Netherlands Senegal I think Norway Norway again once in a generational team I think they [32:22] surprised this summer Brazil and Germany propping up the rankings at number 10. right I've got just [32:28] one question for you Shaq sure did you see England recently I thought that what you saw England in [32:38] this window had nothing looked nothing like what you remember that last list we saw Paraguay were [32:43] actually behind [32:43] Scotland [32:44] Scotland [32:44] Paraguay were 27th [32:45] they drew 1-1 [32:46] with England [32:47] and then [32:48] oh wait a minute [32:49] Japan [32:49] Japan who were in [32:51] 20th in that last ranking [32:53] beat England [32:54] at Wembley 1-0 [32:56] so England [32:56] England [32:57] 1-1 [32:58] 1 draw [32:58] and if it's the power rankings [33:00] how are they even [33:01] in the top 10 [33:02] there's something fishy [33:02] there's something fishy [33:04] that is nothing to do [33:05] with the England team [33:06] I think you'll see [33:07] I think [33:07] I think Tukul [33:08] was trying something out [33:09] well it should be called [33:10] the power rankings [33:11] because that's [33:12] your power rankings [33:14] are all about [33:14] what's just happened [33:15] I maintain [33:16] I still think [33:17] those top 4 [33:18] are the best 4 teams [33:20] in world football [33:21] I think those 4 [33:22] are the 4 semi-finals [33:24] so I [33:24] I put England [33:25] even if they want to [33:26] put out a C or D team [33:27] in this window [33:28] um [33:29] yeah but you came out [33:29] with all this power [33:30] well up 2 [33:31] down 3 [33:31] up 4 [33:32] sliding in [33:34] he's new [33:35] you're giving it all that [33:36] so you could do that [33:38] I didn't say that once [33:38] I did not say that once here [33:40] you did show you went [33:41] you went up 2 or something [33:42] and that means [33:43] who's up [33:44] that's [33:44] recent performances [33:46] who's up to [33:47] which is why I brought [33:47] England into the [33:48] who is up to [33:49] the last international [33:50] window was November [33:51] I never said [33:53] nobody [33:54] anybody moved up [33:54] bottom line is [33:55] they shouldn't even be [33:56] the top 10 [33:56] recent [33:57] recent [33:58] no [33:58] they're [33:59] the 4th best team [34:01] in world football [34:01] right now [34:02] how's that [34:04] they just drew [34:06] with Paraguay [34:06] and they got beat [34:08] by Japan [34:08] if you play your D team [34:09] so you want me to [34:10] judge England [34:11] on their D team [34:12] Phil Foden [34:13] in the D squad [34:14] is he [34:14] did he play this weekend [34:16] yeah [34:16] he's not going to [34:18] start in the World Cup [34:18] he did play yeah [34:19] I'm just answering [34:20] your question [34:20] I know [34:21] I was answering that [34:23] yes [34:23] anybody who played [34:25] this weekend [34:25] will not be starting [34:26] in the World Cup [34:27] or this week [34:28] will not be starting [34:28] in the World Cup [34:29] Cole Palmer started [34:30] is he not [34:32] yeah he's going to [34:33] make all the difference [34:34] he's the one player [34:35] Stevie Cormack [34:36] it's [34:37] Tukla [34:38] nobody's denying [34:39] Tukla made [34:40] wholesale changes [34:41] I said Cole Palmer [34:41] not Arnold Palmer [34:42] nobody's [34:43] nobody's denying [34:44] that Tukla made [34:44] wholesale changes [34:46] and what you saw [34:47] this week [34:47] well [34:48] would not reflect [34:48] in the slightest [34:49] what you see [34:50] come [34:50] coming starting [34:51] in the World Cup [34:51] can you believe [34:52] that he's so [34:53] against England [34:53] he was so [34:54] last week's [34:55] were fantastic [34:55] last week's [34:56] were spot on [34:57] this week [34:57] yeah I'm surprised [34:59] you've not squeezed [34:59] you got complacent [35:00] you're right [35:01] you got complacent [35:02] well I think [35:03] Luis Garcia [35:03] is quite happy [35:04] with what he sees [35:05] I just don't get [35:10] why France has to be [35:11] on the first spot [35:12] I don't know [35:12] having Spain [35:13] after the Euros [35:14] on the Euros [35:15] I'm calling it now [35:16] I'm calling it now [35:17] France are winning [35:18] all right [35:21] all right [35:21] all right [35:21] okay that's [35:22] I mean [35:23] it's a [35:23] it's a way of seeing [35:25] I think that France [35:26] I mean [35:27] it's totally [35:27] it's your opinion [35:30] I think that it's [35:31] totally fine [35:31] because France [35:32] is very strong [35:33] I agree that England [35:34] is gonna be [35:35] it has something to say [35:36] I don't know [35:38] why the guys [35:38] are complaining so much [35:39] I think that England [35:40] has got something [35:41] it's got so much [35:41] talent [35:42] and we've seen it [35:43] in the Euros [35:43] maybe the football [35:44] is not as dazzling [35:45] as we could expect [35:45] but there's so much [35:46] talent there [35:47] but Spain has to be [35:49] at the top [35:49] right now [35:50] because of the [35:50] result [35:51] because of the [35:51] football that has [35:52] been developing [35:53] in the last few years [35:54] it has to be at the top [35:55] maybe we don't [35:56] win it anymore [35:57] or we don't win it [35:58] this year [35:59] but definitely [36:00] at least we have to [36:01] be at the top [36:02] of that group [36:03] Don [36:04] Stevie's been [36:05] comparing it to [36:06] top of the pops [36:07] back in the day [36:07] places moving up [36:09] places moving down [36:10] places sticking there [36:11] up two [36:12] down three [36:13] who moved from [36:13] last week [36:14] who moved from [36:14] last week [36:15] go ahead [36:16] I'm not sure [36:17] what it's called [36:18] so is it called [36:19] power rankings [36:20] or future rankings [36:21] because future rankings [36:23] is Shaka looking ahead [36:24] to what's happening [36:25] in the World Cup [36:26] but the power rankings [36:27] are what's happening now [36:28] so England have just [36:30] come off a drawn defeat [36:31] what's happening now [36:32] Don's nominating himself [36:33] to be the power rankings [36:33] when England have come [36:34] off a drawn defeat [36:35] friendlies [36:36] friendlies happening now [36:37] is that what we're going on [36:38] well it's power rankings yeah [36:41] so we're going on friendlies [36:42] so if you make all changes [36:45] for friendlies [36:45] you're going to be judged [36:47] on that [36:47] what's power rankings now [36:50] I'm just asking [36:50] so you make all changes [36:52] for friendlies [36:52] well you either win [36:53] or you lose [36:53] or you draw [36:54] so S.I. [36:55] so if you [36:56] if you play [36:57] Uzbekistan [36:58] and win 12-0 [36:59] you should be top [36:59] you get credit [37:02] for winning the game [37:03] yep [37:03] right so you should be top [37:05] if you beat Uzbekistan [37:06] 12-0 [37:07] you should be top [37:07] so if there's two teams [37:08] and one wins 12-0 [37:10] and the other wins 5-0 [37:11] but the opponent's harder [37:12] then they go ahead of [37:13] the team that beat Uzbekistan [37:14] but you won bigger [37:15] you can only be judging [37:17] what you're doing now [37:17] apparently [37:18] you can only be judged [37:19] by what you're doing now [37:19] well that's what [37:21] the power rankings is [37:22] what you're doing now [37:22] so if you beat Uzbekistan [37:23] by 12 [37:24] you go top of the rankings [37:26] right [37:26] I don't understand [37:27] what your argument is here [37:27] no [37:27] is it now [37:28] or the future [37:29] I mean hang on [37:30] so if you beat Uzbekistan [37:31] now [37:32] you go top now [37:34] for now [37:34] or the future [37:35] the power rankings [37:36] I am judging [37:37] that's the top teams [37:39] going into the World Cup [37:40] those are the top [37:42] 10 teams [37:42] going into the World Cup [37:43] we're going to keep [37:44] going around in circles [37:45] so yeah [37:45] foul for me [37:47] I mean it's a penalty [37:49] for me [37:49] I mean when you [37:51] when you see it again [37:51] and Ahmad's just [37:52] chopped inside [37:53] onto his left foot [37:53] just about to pull [37:54] the trigger [37:54] or pick a pass [37:55] and he gets his [37:56] arm pulled [37:57] and his shoulder pulled [37:58] and anywhere else [37:59] on the pitch [38:00] it's a foul [38:00] it's a foul [38:00] it's a foul [38:00] I mean I think [38:01] that's a penalty [38:01] Stevie and Shekha [38:03] both say penalty [38:03] what about you Luis? [38:07] It can be called [38:08] as a penalty [38:09] yes [38:09] on these days [38:10] not everything [38:12] is maybe a soft [38:13] but it's totally true [38:14] that he's pushed [38:15] when he's going [38:16] to get the [38:16] the shot [38:17] so yeah [38:18] we can call it [38:19] a penalty [38:19] but again [38:20] it's not [38:22] a big penalty [38:23] like [38:23] Alan Moreno [38:25] is saying [38:25] it's a penaltito [38:26] it's a penaltito [38:27] a little penalty [38:28] a soft one [38:30] I'd love to see [38:33] these panels [38:34] I'd love to be a fly [38:35] on the wall [38:36] because you know [38:37] all these [38:38] I'll tell you what [38:39] we'll do [38:39] we'll make it 3-2 [38:40] we'll give it a close call [38:41] and then it'll look better [38:43] because there's five of us [38:45] I'm assuming you think [38:46] it's a penalty [38:47] I'm not getting involved [38:48] do you think [38:50] it's a penalty or not? [38:51] I'm not getting involved [38:52] why are you so aggressive [38:53] today? [38:54] well there's four [38:54] there's four of us right? [38:57] let's take care [38:57] there's four of us [38:58] do you think it's a penalty? [38:59] every one of us [39:00] has said it's a penalty [39:00] and nobody's really [39:03] got an argument [39:04] for not being a penalty [39:05] really [39:05] even Luis is trying [39:07] his best [39:07] to say no [39:08] but he can't [39:09] because it's just a penalty [39:10] it's a penaltito [39:12] the aspect [39:13] I don't quite understand [39:15] is the [39:16] five to the [39:17] unanimous ruling [39:18] that VAR [39:18] shouldn't intervene [39:20] I don't get that [39:22] if it's [39:24] three to two [39:25] right? [39:25] even if we take it [39:26] as three to two [39:28] so it's [39:29] kind of down the middle [39:30] as to whether [39:30] it should be a penalty [39:31] or not [39:32] isn't that enough doubt [39:34] to at least send the referee [39:35] to the screen [39:36] to have a look [39:36] and pass a judgment [39:38] you admit on one hand [39:40] that there is [39:42] nearly 50% of doubt [39:43] but then [39:45] 0% [39:46] that VAR [39:47] should intervene [39:48] I don't understand [39:49] that aspect [39:49] I know what you're going to say [39:50] that there's two people [39:51] who say it should have been [39:52] a penalty [39:52] but five say [39:53] VAR shouldn't have [39:54] got involved [39:55] yeah that's what I'm saying [39:57] so it's [39:58] nearly 50% [39:59] say [39:59] well yeah [40:00] it could have been given [40:01] penaltitos [40:02] as Ali and Luis would say [40:04] but then nobody says [40:05] well [40:05] it's not a penalty [40:06] but you know [40:07] let's not send him [40:08] to review [40:09] that don't make [40:10] any kind of sense [40:11] I wasn't going to say that [40:12] I was going to say [40:13] how can Shaq be so sensible [40:14] about this topic [40:15] but yeah that last one [40:16] he's all over the shop [40:17] that's what I was going to say [40:18] two different things [40:21] why are you so aggressive today [40:22] why are you so aggressive [40:23] yeah Stevie [40:25] same panel [40:25] that's why [40:26] it's the same panel [40:27] from the other one [40:28] yeah it's a red card [40:31] I don't [40:32] how can VAR not [40:33] do anything about that [40:35] makes no sense [40:36] Shaq [40:37] I fully agree [40:39] that's what it's there for [40:41] baffling [40:42] that's what it takes to win [40:43] technology is there for [40:44] you know [40:44] I don't think [40:45] there's any doubt to that [40:47] so how that isn't reviewed [40:49] is again [40:50] it's clear for everybody to see [40:52] Don [40:52] yeah these are the ones [40:56] that frustrate you the most [40:57] when [40:57] everyone knows [40:59] it's a hair pull [41:00] and it's a red card [41:01] and [41:03] whoever's sitting [41:04] in the VAR room [41:05] have got [41:06] multiple views [41:08] they can look at it [41:09] three or four times [41:10] it should only take one [41:11] you should be that clever enough [41:13] and that [41:13] observant enough [41:14] to spot one hair pull [41:15] and go that's a red card [41:17] if you want another look at it [41:18] you can [41:18] you can take your time [41:20] you can spend a minute [41:20] if you want [41:21] but you have to come to the conclusion [41:23] that has to be a red card [41:24] so these are the ones [41:26] where [41:26] whether it's in the Premier League [41:27] or Women's Football [41:28] Champions League [41:29] whatever the level [41:30] these are the ones where you [41:32] scratch your head and think [41:33] have they not saw that [41:35] that's the worry [41:35] have they not seen that [41:36] because [41:37] everyone else can [41:39] that was not a hair pull Tito [41:40] make sure to stay up to date [41:42] on everything that's going on [41:43] in Women's Football [41:44] podcast will be [41:45] available tonight [41:46] Alexis Nunes [41:47] and Ali Krieger [41:48] are joined by special guest [41:50] Leanne Sanderson [41:51] make sure to catch it [41:52] on ESPN Plus [41:53] welcome into the latest edition [41:57] of Extra Time [41:57] Steve he's got an extra [41:59] little bite in him today [42:00] doesn't he [42:01] doesn't he Shaq [42:02] he wasn't happy [42:03] with the power rankings [42:04] so angry [42:06] disappointing [42:06] he was so good last week as well [42:08] that's what happens [42:09] you know you can't [42:10] you can't praise him too highly [42:11] because this can happen [42:12] the following week [42:13] he's got a wee bit complacent [42:15] I've never been [42:16] England in again [42:17] yeah don't [42:18] Don Hutchison joining us too [42:21] didn't have as much [42:22] of a problem [42:23] as Stevie did [42:24] but anyway [42:24] that's that [42:25] Kay what was the mood like [42:27] after Italy's loss [42:28] oh boy [42:28] not good [42:29] oh she didn't know [42:31] she stayed here [42:32] she came to work [42:34] the only thing I'll say is [42:35] my sister's in town [42:36] at the moment [42:37] and my husband [42:38] was on air [42:39] from our little [42:40] basement studio [42:41] and we could hear [42:42] the ranting [42:42] through the walls [42:43] upstairs [42:44] that made us chuckle [42:46] but yeah [42:47] he's not the happiest bunny [42:49] it's safe to say [42:50] which goes on to say [42:51] Don which is our resident Italian here [42:53] how sad were you watching [42:55] Italy fail to make it [42:56] to the World Cup [42:57] it was pretty sad [43:00] it was sad [43:01] because the pressure was on [43:02] and it was like [43:03] it was unthinkable [43:04] it's like they [43:04] surely this team [43:06] and surely this nation [43:07] are too good [43:08] or shouldn't have got themselves [43:10] in this situation [43:10] the group phase was [43:11] terrible as it was [43:13] but going into the playoffs [43:14] you're thinking right [43:15] they got the right side of the draw [43:16] because Wales lost [43:17] because that would have been [43:18] a harder place to play for them [43:19] going to Wales [43:20] and trying to beat them [43:21] but against Bosnia [43:23] going down to 10 men [43:24] I thought they were [43:25] very unlucky with it [43:26] I thought one of the [43:27] Bosnian defenders [43:28] should have had a red card as well [43:29] but that's by the by [43:30] it was just sad [43:32] and it was watching [43:33] the reaction [43:34] coming in on social media [43:35] and everyone like [43:37] you know [43:37] like Matteo [43:38] was fuming [43:39] and watching all the clips [43:40] coming in [43:41] and how sort of angry [43:42] everyone was [43:42] and how desperate [43:43] and sad [43:44] how everyone was [43:45] it was quite tragic [43:46] next question's also [43:48] for you Don [43:48] it says [43:49] what do Inter do [43:50] with Bastoni [43:50] on Sunday [43:51] at the San Siro [43:52] I mean he's been linked [43:56] with a move [43:57] to Liverpool [43:57] but he's one of these [43:59] players Bastoni [44:00] that when he wears [44:01] an Inter shirt [44:02] he's really good [44:03] he's not had a great season [44:04] don't get me wrong [44:05] but previous seasons [44:06] he's been brilliant [44:07] in an Inter shirt [44:08] but for some reason [44:10] he's one of these guys [44:10] that as soon as he puts [44:11] the Italian national shirt on [44:13] he just goes to bits [44:15] he goes to pieces [44:16] whether it's [44:17] whether he doesn't like [44:19] not having the freedom [44:20] of wandering [44:21] to midfield [44:21] which he's good at [44:22] or he feels the pressure [44:24] or he can't handle [44:25] the pressure [44:25] everyone's hammered him [44:27] for the red card [44:27] which it's inevitable [44:29] it's going to happen [44:30] but these things do happen [44:31] when you get a red card [44:32] I think you've just [44:33] got to play him [44:33] if you're Inter [44:34] you've got to play him [44:35] into form [44:35] would you play him [44:37] Stevie knowing that [44:37] he's just had a red card [44:38] for Italy [44:39] massive game [44:40] absolutely [44:41] the worst thing [44:41] you can do [44:42] is not play him [44:42] 100% [44:43] guys [44:45] what is going on [44:47] with Phil Foden [44:48] Premier League [44:49] Player of the Year [44:50] two years ago [44:51] and now maybe not [44:52] going to the [44:52] World Cup [44:53] and Xhaka called him [44:54] a D-team player [44:54] for England tonight [44:55] yeah he did [44:56] a bit harsh [44:57] what's going on [44:59] what's going on Don [45:00] tough business [45:01] to be honest Keir [45:04] I don't think anyone knows [45:05] because we've been [45:06] looking at this same [45:07] Phil Foden now [45:07] for 12 months [45:08] and everyone that [45:09] knows the game [45:10] knows he's an [45:11] unbelievable player [45:12] I mean one of the best [45:13] number 10s [45:14] when he takes the ball [45:15] on the back foot [45:15] in the Premier League [45:16] but for 12 months [45:18] he's been quiet [45:18] whether it's [45:19] I don't know [45:21] I don't want to speculate [45:21] in terms of anything [45:22] to do with his personal life [45:23] or whether he's just [45:24] burnt out [45:26] or he's just [45:27] absolutely shattered [45:28] I think including Pep [45:30] everyone's trying to [45:31] put a finger on [45:33] why he can't get [45:34] at his best level [45:35] because his best level [45:36] is better than most [45:37] we spent the first [45:38] part of the show [45:38] talking about like [45:39] the Italian number 9s [45:40] and Griezmann would be [45:41] in that conversation [45:42] what a legendary player [45:43] he'll be [45:43] and has been [45:44] when he retires [45:45] everyone will look back [45:46] and think Griezmann [45:46] brilliant player [45:47] same with Phil Foden [45:49] but he's got to start [45:50] finding it Keir [45:51] there's only so many times [45:52] we can try and second guess [45:53] what's going on [45:54] whether it's something [45:55] personal [45:55] or you know [45:56] burnt out [45:57] or lack of form [45:58] or his confidence crisis [46:00] but at some point [46:02] as a player [46:02] you've got to snap out of it [46:03] it would seem that [46:06] Pep's lost [46:07] trust in him [46:09] I don't recall [46:11] Foden playing [46:13] three or four games [46:14] on the trot this season [46:15] last year was [46:17] seemed like an anomaly [46:19] it was like [46:20] how did that happen [46:21] but you could understand [46:23] that because of [46:23] how bad City were [46:24] obviously guys [46:26] in the final third [46:27] are generally [46:28] when a team's struggling [46:29] they're the ones [46:30] that see less of the ball [46:31] all the other stuff [46:32] but it would seem to me [46:35] that Pep's lost trust in him [46:36] which has to affect [46:38] the player [46:38] you know when you go from [46:40] you know you're playing [46:41] to I'm even going to get [46:43] off the bench today [46:44] so you can't expect [46:46] somebody to [46:46] all of a sudden [46:47] stick a different colour jersey on [46:49] and be [46:49] be their best [46:51] plus you look at England [46:52] and now he's got [46:54] Cole Palmer [46:55] and Bellingham [46:56] ahead of him [46:56] I mean you only take [46:58] three players that play [46:59] in that position [46:59] so yeah [47:01] it's tough to beat your finger on it [47:03] but I don't think [47:03] Pep's helped him too much [47:05] but I think [47:05] at the same time [47:06] surely Pep has [47:07] seen him on the training ground [47:08] and knows [47:09] what form he's in [47:11] or not [47:11] as the case may be [47:12] you know [47:12] it's a difficult call [47:14] to see his point [47:15] Pep doesn't [47:16] have to play Foden [47:17] because Foden [47:18] was really good [47:19] a couple of seasons ago [47:20] you know Foden has to show up [47:21] every single day [47:22] in training [47:22] and prove that [47:24] he's worthy of that [47:25] selection [47:26] Shaq I'm not a big fan of that [47:27] you know [47:28] I've played with guys [47:30] who during the week [47:31] in training [47:31] were buying average [47:32] every day [47:33] but they would be [47:35] the first guy [47:35] you'd want standing next to you [47:37] I'm not so sure I'd go [47:38] you know [47:39] we don't get [47:41] we don't get confidence [47:42] to playing well [47:43] in training [47:43] honestly [47:44] we get confidence [47:45] when we step on the field [47:47] and we play on the field [47:48] in my opinion [47:49] but to that point [47:50] right okay [47:51] so let's say [47:52] for argument's sake [47:53] I sure don't know [47:54] Foden is one of those [47:55] that's not great in training [47:56] but then [47:57] and it's not at all [47:59] Foden's fault [48:00] but City are playing well [48:01] Foden comes on [48:03] maybe he doesn't have [48:04] that confidence [48:04] he's not playing well [48:05] Pep has to change something [48:07] and [48:08] and Foden [48:10] if he's not playing well [48:12] on his Saturday [48:12] not training well [48:13] he's probably going to be [48:15] the one [48:15] or one of those sacrificed [48:17] alright [48:19] next question for you Don [48:20] what are your thoughts [48:21] about Lukaku [48:22] and Napoli [48:23] and obviously [48:24] if you've not seen [48:25] these reports [48:26] there's been the news [48:27] that [48:28] he failed to report [48:29] for training [48:30] after the international break [48:31] oh boy [48:32] yeah [48:34] don't know why [48:35] don't know what [48:35] the story is [48:36] in terms of [48:37] how deep you go [48:38] with the story [48:39] was there something [48:39] personal going on [48:40] was there a fall [48:41] out between him [48:42] and Conte [48:43] or the hierarchy [48:44] at Napoli [48:45] but to not show up [48:46] is a strange one [48:47] that's probably happened [48:49] in the past [48:50] many many many [48:51] years ago [48:53] 80s 90s [48:54] I can't recall that [48:56] for a modern day pro [48:57] that's [48:58] that's not turned up [48:59] for training [49:00] and made [49:00] headlines [49:01] and then we're still [49:02] waiting on answers [49:03] to why [49:04] that is [49:05] so that's one [49:06] where I think [49:07] it'll play out [49:08] and we'll find out [49:09] in coming days [49:10] I would imagine [49:10] yeah [49:11] we're seeing [49:11] that [49:12] the report [49:13] stating that [49:13] on his social media [49:14] he stated [49:15] he would never [49:15] turn his back [49:16] on Napoli [49:17] but emphasised [49:17] his need [49:18] to be [49:18] 100% [49:19] clinically fit [49:20] after a mentally [49:21] and physically [49:22] taxing season [49:23] so we'll keep [49:24] our eye on this one [49:25] and what's happened [49:26] in the weekend ahead [49:27] ready [49:28] this is [49:29] aggressive Steve [49:31] again [49:31] get ready [49:33] this is about [49:34] to be turned up [49:35] big enough [49:36] such a taxing [49:37] and mentally [49:38] exhausting season [49:39] ready [49:39] ready [49:41] for your next one [49:42] because I know [49:43] you're annoyed [49:43] about this [49:44] I mean what's [49:44] a [49:44] TV [49:45] is centre-back [49:47] really the easiest [49:48] position to play [49:49] like Mbappe says [49:50] I tell you what [49:51] what is this Mbappe [49:52] 27 [49:52] what an ignoramus [49:55] what's a completely [49:56] and utter [49:57] ignoramus [49:58] to come out [49:58] and say something [49:59] like that [49:59] he wouldn't [50:01] he wouldn't know [50:02] the first thing [50:02] about defending [50:03] the guy who doesn't [50:05] want to defend [50:05] the guy who knows [50:06] nothing about it [50:07] so if you know [50:08] nothing about something [50:09] how can you have [50:10] such an opinion on it [50:11] yeah Milan was so bad [50:15] because Beresi [50:15] was so bad [50:16] as well wasn't he [50:17] Beresi was crap [50:18] eh [50:20] you're trying to tell me [50:21] Beresi [50:22] eh [50:24] seriously [50:25] there's not [50:27] there's not an Italian [50:28] breathing [50:28] that wouldn't want [50:29] Beresi [50:30] playing for this Italian side [50:31] the easiest position [50:33] to play [50:34] what's a lot of garbage [50:35] I mean it really isn't [50:36] he didn't say he was bad [50:37] maybe Beresi was amazing [50:39] because it's so easy [50:39] to play as centre-back [50:40] that's a really [50:41] ignorant thing to say [50:43] if Mbappe [50:45] listen [50:46] if Beresi came out [50:47] and said you know what [50:48] I think centre-back [50:49] is the easiest position [50:50] to play [50:50] then you can't really [50:52] argue [50:52] you can't really [50:54] argue can you [50:54] he did it [50:57] got the t-shirt [50:57] if he says it's easy [50:59] then you know what [51:00] I'll give him [51:01] I'll say it's easy [51:02] but not [51:03] not somebody who [51:04] wouldn't know [51:05] in fact [51:06] you know when he goes [51:07] past the halfway line [51:08] and he gets a nosebleed [51:09] this guy [51:09] seriously [51:12] it's really annoying [51:15] that when people say [51:16] three things like that [51:17] okay you are naughty [51:18] what did I do [51:19] I read the question [51:20] so let me get this right [51:21] are you saying [51:22] it's not the easiest [51:23] position to play [51:24] I'll tell you what [51:25] if I turned around [51:26] and said [51:26] you know what [51:28] you know the easiest [51:28] position is goalkeeping [51:29] what would you say [51:32] what would you say [51:34] if I said [51:35] you know what [51:35] goalkeeping [51:36] goalkeeping's easy [51:37] all you do is stand [51:38] there half the time [51:39] in fact if you're [51:40] playing a good team [51:41] you don't even need [51:42] to bother turning up [51:42] half the time [51:43] so what is the easiest [51:46] position Stevie [51:47] no such thing [51:48] there's no such thing [51:50] as an easy position [51:51] after centre-back [51:51] there's no such thing [51:53] as an easy [51:53] it's just [51:54] the thing is [51:56] coming from him [51:57] it's not really [51:58] a surprise is it [51:59] he doesn't [52:01] well [52:02] I'm feeling [52:02] because it's me [52:03] me me [52:03] he's only interested [52:04] in him [52:05] get me the ball [52:06] yeah but if they could [52:08] just do their easy job [52:09] better [52:10] then all he'd have to do [52:11] is four or less goals [52:12] to save the team [52:13] you know who I blame [52:14] for this [52:15] me [52:15] yeah [52:16] if I'd left England [52:17] on the power rankings [52:18] we'd have just been [52:19] moving on smoothly [52:20] Mbappé's favourite line [52:22] is [52:22] do what you can do [52:25] for me [52:25] not what I can do [52:26] for you [52:27] that's his [52:27] that's his [52:28] motto [52:29] why are you looking [52:31] so serious [52:31] I know yeah [52:33] why am I [52:34] I'm trying to [52:35] I'm trying to [52:35] end with that [52:36] yeah [52:39] she's teed you up there [52:41] Stevie [52:41] she's teed you up [52:43] one less Stevie [52:43] it's so annoying [52:44] so annoying [52:45] when people come out [52:46] with things like that [52:47] it's honestly not often [52:48] off air [52:49] he talks football [52:50] but tonight [52:50] he brought this one up [52:51] before we went on [52:52] so I couldn't wait [52:53] when I saw it [52:54] in the list [52:54] because he'd seen it [52:55] and Mbappé had said it [52:57] what a cheeky man [52:58] oh [52:59] it was so good [53:00] wonderful stuff [53:01] alright [53:02] now that you've [53:03] finished talking about [53:04] Easy Street [53:04] of being a centre-back [53:05] who are the guys [53:07] Dark Horse is [53:07] for this year's [53:08] World Cup [53:09] and we're going to [53:10] classify Dark Horse [53:11] as a team that's [53:12] never won the World Cup [53:14] Norway [53:15] yeah [53:16] Norway [53:17] I agree with you there [53:19] yep [53:20] they could beat anybody [53:22] Norway ahead of Portugal [53:26] why are we on that list [53:26] everybody there's [53:28] won the World Cup [53:29] Norway ahead of Portugal [53:30] Don [53:30] Norway ahead of who Kay [53:33] Portugal [53:34] I mean [53:34] can you call Portugal [53:36] a Dark Horse [53:37] no [53:37] they've never won [53:37] the World Cup [53:38] if that's [53:39] if that's what we're [53:40] using as the criteria [53:41] you can't call it a Dark Horse [53:43] I'm going with Norway [53:44] I'm going with [53:45] I'm still going with [53:45] Norway over Portugal [53:47] done [53:47] good show [53:48] yeah [53:49] wow [53:50] well that's exactly why [53:51] Shak is involved in those [53:52] silly pair rankings [53:53] if he thinks [53:54] Norway are a better side [53:55] than Portugal [53:57] Portugal's not a Dark Horse [53:58] see what [53:59] if [53:59] I think Portugal could be [54:00] a Dark Horse [54:01] if we're using the criteria [54:02] that it's a team that's [54:03] never won the World Cup [54:05] I'm still putting Norway [54:06] above Portugal [54:06] well don't put Dark Horse [54:07] in it then [54:09] just put [54:10] a team that's not won [54:11] the World Cup [54:11] there we go [54:13] we'll simplify it [54:14] what do you think [54:14] of Portugal's centre-backs [54:16] all right [54:20] obligatory percentage [54:21] question for Don [54:22] Spurs' chances [54:24] to avoid relegation [54:26] my ribs are hurting me [54:28] well now they've got [54:32] a proper manager in [54:33] they stand a better chance [54:34] it's just how much work [54:36] can De Gea be doing [54:37] on the training ground [54:38] I think it's [54:43] one of three [54:43] I think it's 33 and a third [54:44] I think it's [54:45] it's them [54:45] Forrest and [54:46] who's the other one [54:48] West Ham [54:48] West Ham [54:49] couldn't call it [54:50] yeah couldn't call it [54:51] would you rather [54:54] give up your phone [54:55] or TV [54:56] for a year [54:57] TV [54:58] easy [54:58] easy [54:59] I don't watch [55:01] a whole lot of TV [55:01] anyway [55:02] everything you get on TV [55:03] you get on your phone [55:04] yeah [55:04] I don't watch [55:06] a whole lot of TV [55:07] so that's an easy decision [55:08] for me [55:09] easy [55:10] keep the TV [55:11] you can't phone them [55:11] what about YouTube [55:14] give up your phone [55:15] or YouTube [55:16] TikTok [55:17] yeah [55:19] that's not TikTok [55:20] just YouTube [55:20] just YouTube [55:20] what about you [55:21] well you can't walk [55:22] around the street [55:22] with a TV [55:23] on your shoulder right [55:24] no [55:24] see what I mean [55:25] you can try [55:26] some of the TVs [55:27] over that size [55:28] it'll tick two of you [55:29] done [55:31] biff my phone off [55:34] biff it off [55:35] oh yeah [55:35] I'm [55:36] I'm [55:37] yeah [55:37] I'm [55:37] end of season [55:39] I'm coming off X [55:40] and all that sort of rubbish [55:41] spent too much time on it [55:42] so biff the phone [55:43] watch loads of TV [55:46] watch Seinfeld [55:47] watch Only Fools and Horses [55:48] watch all the classics [55:49] biff off the phone [55:50] easy decision [55:51] for the guys here [55:52] easy [55:53] we like playing centre-backs [55:54] just like Mbappé said [55:55] that's all we've got time for [55:57] on the latest event of X-Time [55:59] centre-back yeah [56:00] is it kicked off yet [56:02] I don't have a glass of champagne [56:05] thank you so much for sending in [56:06] some wonderful questions tonight guys [56:09] you can roll with it all weekend