Donald Trump on Retribution - From My 1992 Interview. A CHARLIE ROSE Global Conversation

[0:00] I would have wiped the floor with the guys that weren't loyal, which I will now do, which is great. [0:05] You know, I love getting even with people, but I will. [0:08] Slow up. You love getting even with people. [0:10] Oh, absolutely. [0:11] Welcome to our broadcast. [0:25] Tonight we spend the hour with a man who has already left his own unique mark on the face and history of New York City. [0:32] If Donald Trump is not in the news for a high-stakes deal or a controversial new development, [0:36] he may be in the gossip columns with his latest relationship. [0:39] But less than two years ago, the news was that the Trump empire was in trouble, [0:43] and some were quick to announce that the king had lost his crown. [0:47] Donald Trump, some say, is out to prove them wrong and is currently writing his third book, [0:51] which is The Art of the Comeback. [0:53] And that's what we want to start with. [0:54] Donald Trump is here, and I'm pleased to have him. [0:56] Welcome. [0:57] Hi, Charlie. [0:58] Nice to have you here. [0:58] It's been a long time. [0:59] It has. [0:59] We're in New Orleans back during the Republican convention in a little room talking about, [1:04] actually talking about the challenge of the Japanese at that time. [1:06] Exactly right. [1:07] Exactly right. [1:07] Now, here is Trump, The Art of the Deal. [1:09] And this is Trump surviving at the top. [1:12] And here is the casino journal saying, gaming's greatest comeback. [1:16] Here is, guess what, casino player, the comeback kid, Donald Trump's amazing turnaround. [1:22] And here is New York Magazine out this week, fighting back, Trump scrambles off the canvas. [1:29] Bill Clinton, after the New Hampshire primary, went out front and had a press conference, [1:34] and he said, even though he came in second, said, I'm the comeback kid. [1:38] That's right. [1:39] And look what happened to Bill Clinton. [1:40] Right. [1:41] Now, if you could translate that for you, where would it be? [1:46] Where would it take you to? [1:47] What would be the equivalent of reaching the White House for you? [1:50] Well, I think just doing what I'm doing, Charlie. [1:52] You know, I've had a really great streak over the last year. [1:56] A lot of people went down. [1:57] The economy is in a horrible condition, just a deplorable condition. [2:00] The politicians destroyed the economy in 1986 when they passed a tax law that just destroyed [2:06] the real estate industry, which in turn destroyed the banks and the savings banks and savings and loans. [2:11] And I really got very lucky in a way. [2:13] I built the Taj Mahal, which everyone said that's going to be his downfall. [2:15] The Taj Mahal, it's over a billion-dollar building, and it's turned out to be one of the best deals I've ever made. [2:21] It broke records for the last three months. [2:23] It won over $40 million a month. [2:25] No casino in history has won anywhere near that. [2:28] All three of my casinos were rated four stars by the Mobile Travel Guide, [2:32] and they're the only casinos in the United States that are so rated. [2:35] So, you know, it's really been an incredible period of six or seven months for me, [2:38] and it's really been gratifying. [2:41] Now they all want to do the comeback stories and everything else, [2:43] and I think I probably care less about that than I would have maybe three or four years ago, [2:48] but it's been a pretty good experience for me. [2:50] Then how are you different than you were three or four years ago? [2:54] Well, I used to say, and in fact I think I said in my first book, [2:57] and maybe this was foolish, but I really meant it, [2:59] that someday I'd like to maybe lose everything for a period of time [3:03] to see who's loyal and who's not loyal. [3:06] And I frankly, I found out a lot of things. [3:08] Did you find out who's loyal and not loyal? [3:09] No, I tell you what, and you can't guess it. [3:10] You can't predict it. [3:11] You think certain people would be loyal no matter what, [3:14] and it turns out that they're not, and you just can't predict it. [3:17] It's very difficult. [3:18] What hurt the most? [3:20] Well, it's a whole different scene, Charlie. [3:22] I mean, we have a situation where you have everything going, [3:26] everything going perfectly, and then one day you wake up, [3:29] and the world is coming to an end from the standpoint of the economy. [3:32] But I just think that I've had a lot of luck. [3:36] I've had a lot of friends. [3:37] I've had a lot of good friends. [3:38] And overall, I've done really well with it, [3:40] and I'm very happy about it. [3:42] All right. [3:42] Now, help me go back and understand what it was to be you [3:44] and what happened. [3:45] So the economy did, you know, you were hit in other real estate developers, [3:48] and some people have not been able to come back. [3:50] Some developers in Canada and in the United States [3:54] who had a magnificent reputation for quality and for the deal [3:57] are still in bankruptcy, in fact. [3:59] How high did it get for you? [4:02] I mean, what was it like for you before the crash? [4:05] And then how low did it get for you when things began to go bad [4:10] and people were counting you out and saying that not only could you not recover, [4:15] but that you were that far from bankruptcy? [4:18] Yeah. [4:18] Well, I never thought I was that far from bankruptcy, [4:20] but a lot of people were giving me a hard time. [4:22] And I think overall, Charlie, it was an experience that I don't think [4:27] I want to go through it again, I have to tell you this. [4:29] I mean, you know what it's like. [4:32] You're really in a position where I think that if you had to do it again, [4:37] I'm not sure you could. [4:38] I went through a period of two years that was truly tough. [4:42] Tough in what way? [4:44] Well, you know, you have parents and you have people that adore you [4:48] and you have people that for 15 years nothing went wrong. [4:52] And then all of a sudden the world seems to be coming to an end. [4:55] I mean, it just seems to become, and it's just, it was just sort of an incredible experience for me. [5:01] Did you have to go to your father and say, bail me out, help me, [5:06] help me get through this crisis one more time? [5:08] My father wouldn't have been in a position to bail me out, [5:10] but he certainly helped and, you know, morally and in any way he could. [5:15] My mother was great. [5:16] I have a sister who's a federal judge and she's very, very strong. [5:20] She's a, she's a fantastic woman. [5:22] I never knew as to loyalty, whether or not she'd be there or wouldn't be there. [5:26] And she was there in spades. [5:27] Other people were there. [5:28] But, you know, the, the incredible thing is you can't really tell. [5:31] You can't really tell who's going to be there, who's not. [5:35] I would have bet my life on certain people. [5:38] I would have said, politically speaking, that somebody that, you know, Andrew Stein would have been there. [5:44] And he wasn't. [5:45] I would have said that other people. [5:46] Wasn't there for what? [5:47] He wasn't there in terms of, for 15 years I supported Andrew Stein, supported him. [5:51] I never asked him for a thing. [5:53] When I needed a vote on Riverside South until the very end, when everybody else was on board, [5:58] Andrew was not there. [6:00] And I was, I was really surprised at that. [6:02] Now, ultimately he was there, but it shouldn't have been so difficult. [6:07] It really shouldn't have been so difficult. [6:07] But here comes one of the things that they say about you is that there ticks within you a vindictiveness about that. [6:14] And you're not going to forget that. [6:16] And part of the Trump style is to, at some point, you're going to try to get Stein back. [6:22] Well, I don't think I'm going to try and get Stein back. [6:25] I'm just disappointed. [6:26] I'm disappointed in other people. [6:27] And I'm not disappointed in some. [6:29] I mean, there have been people that were much more, a man like Alan Greenberg of Bear Stearns, who would call me every day during the trauma. [6:36] And what would he say? [6:37] Well, he'd just call me and he'd boost me. [6:39] He'd say, oh, just keep fighting, just keep fighting. [6:41] You know, he was, he's really a phenomenal guy and a great leader. [6:44] And that's why Bear Stearns, I mean, without any big parent company, I mean, Bear Stearns has just done tremendously well. [6:49] But Alan has been a, you know, a really loyal friend. [6:52] And I've had a lot of other loyal friends. [6:53] But the thing, and I guess I'm going to go into this in the third book. [6:57] I do one book, it's a bestseller. [6:59] I do another book, it's a best, and number one bestseller. [7:01] Both books were number one. [7:02] And I think, frankly, I think this is the best book. [7:05] I think this will be the best book because I really believe I know much more now than I did for the other two. [7:10] What do you know? [7:12] I've learned about hardship, something which really I didn't know. [7:14] I went to the best school. [7:16] I did great. [7:17] You go to the Wharton School of Finance. [7:18] You go through it easily. [7:19] You do fantastically well. [7:22] Everything goes smooth. [7:23] You get out of school. [7:24] You make a lot of money. [7:25] Every deal works out. [7:26] It was sort of like just a series of, you couldn't make a mistake. [7:30] Did you think you were invincible at that time? [7:31] I don't, I never thought I was invincible because I've seen too much. [7:34] And you have to learn from history about others. [7:36] So I never thought I was invincible. [7:37] But I had a 15-year run that was, you know, virtually unprecedented. [7:41] I had a tremendous run. [7:42] And all of a sudden, 1990 hit. [7:45] And I remember there was an article, Welcome to the 90s, Donald. [7:47] But 1990 hit, and the economy was crashing, and the banks were crashing, and everything was crashing. [7:54] And what happened is I learned a lot about myself, and I learned a lot about other people. [8:00] Okay, but you keep saying I learned, I learned. [8:01] What did you learn about yourself? [8:02] Did you, what, what? [8:04] Well, I think I learned for real that I'm a pretty tough guy because you really, it takes a tough guy. [8:10] Hey, it takes the brains, and it takes the this, and it takes, but it also takes a toughness. [8:14] Because to go through a period of turmoil where everything seems to be going in the wrong direction and survive it and end up, as they say in my new magazine covers, are coming back. [8:26] Well, but what they say here, what Greenberg said is that Trump went from owning 100% of nothing to 50% of something that's making money. [8:36] Fair? [8:37] Well, I think that's what he said, and he actually said, making a lot of money. [8:40] What's happened? [8:42] That's right. [8:43] What's happened? [8:43] He did say that. [8:44] What's happened is that the casinos have turned out to be tremendous for me. [8:48] And again, a lot of people were criticizing the move into the casinos and all, but they've really turned out to be tremendous. [8:53] Real estate in New York is starting to come back on a very slow basis. [8:56] I don't know how long it's going to take. [8:58] I think it's going to take a long time. [8:59] But the casinos in particular have been fantastic. [9:02] But, you know, it's just worked out for me. [9:04] It hasn't worked out for a lot of other people. [9:05] I think a lot of that has to do with an inner strength, and that's what I'm going to be writing about. [9:10] A lot of it also, though, has to do with other people, the loyalties of other people, how you treated other people so that maybe they are loyal. [9:18] Did it split the family? [9:20] No. [9:21] Did it cause division between you and your brother? [9:24] It didn't cause division. [9:25] I was a little disappointed in my brother. [9:27] I thought he would have fought harder than he did. [9:30] I was the opposite of my sister. [9:33] I have a sister who is really a phenomenal lady, and she really... [9:36] This is the judge. [9:37] The judge. [9:38] And she really was just tremendous. [9:41] My other sister, likewise, was tremendous. [9:43] My parents have always been, and I would expect them to be. [9:46] You know, it's interesting. [9:47] One of my attorneys said, always count on your mother. [9:50] Now, you know, I maybe took advantage of my mother. [9:53] I never appreciated her as much, but she was really fantastic. [9:57] Well, it is also said, you came out in defense of Mike Tyson, and you came up with these community, and it is said that your mother said, enough, Donald. [10:05] Shut up. [10:05] I think that's probably the first time my mother absolutely got angry at me. [10:09] I really mean that. [10:09] I mean, my mother was so crazy when I came out in defense of Mike Tyson. [10:14] And part of the reason I came out in defense... [10:16] Your mother's 80-something. [10:17] My mother's 80 years old, and part of the reason that... [10:20] Tough enough to survive a mugging. [10:21] Oh, she's tough. [10:22] She's tough, but she's quality. [10:24] I mean, more than tough, she's quality. [10:25] So she said what? [10:26] Well, she wasn't... [10:28] She didn't exactly like the fact that I was defending Iron Mike, but I watched what happened to Mike Tyson. [10:32] I watched how badly he was represented by an attorney in Washington that was charging him $3 or $4 or $5 million against a local attorney, the best within 100 miles that the state hired, who just ate the other man's lunch. [10:46] And I watched the way he did it, and I watched or I heard about a girl that late in the evening knocked on his door, was taken in, was raped, perhaps, perhaps not. [10:56] I don't know. [10:56] I mean, I don't know. [10:57] Again, I think he was very badly represented. [10:59] But I did see that, number one, she knocks late in the night. [11:03] Number two, she's dancing in a beauty contest at 8 in the morning, and I saw the tapes, and I see the big smile on her face, and she's dancing happily at 8 in the morning. [11:11] And now Mike Tyson's in jail for four or five or six years. [11:14] I had a real problem with that case. [11:16] I had a real problem with Mike Tyson's lawyers. [11:18] I had a real problem with Don King. [11:20] I just think that he was really fed out to the wolves. [11:23] But if, in fact, he raped her in that hotel room, regardless of whether she came there, you think that he should have been convicted and should have gone to the slammer? [11:32] He, to this day, denies it. [11:33] I don't know that it happened. [11:34] And I think that, as they said, if he didn't testify, he would have been exonerated totally if the jury said that. [11:41] Mike was arrogant. [11:42] He was a horrible witness, from what I understand. [11:44] And I'm not surprised. [11:45] I mean, I wouldn't say that, generally speaking, you don't put Mike on as a witness. [11:49] But he was a horrible witness. [11:51] And to get four or five or six years, I think that there was just too many circumstances. [11:56] Again, she was in a beauty contest, and she was dancing with a big smile on her face at 8 o'clock in the morning. [12:01] 8 o'clock in the morning. [12:02] Yeah, but the jury sat there, and they listened to her, too. [12:04] They had an opportunity to hear her and test her credibility as they heard it, and also to face questions. [12:10] This guy's not a bad lawyer. [12:11] He may have handled his case bad. [12:12] But he is the same man that represented John Hinckley and others and had an extraordinary reputation in a very good Washington firm. [12:18] I watched Mike, and I've been with Mike, and I've seen him, and people really take advantage of this man. [12:22] And I want to tell you something. [12:24] I think this is one of those examples. [12:25] Now, I know we have a system of juries, and I know we have a system where if you're found guilty, you're guilty. [12:30] But somebody like me, maybe, who has a little bit more independent streak, can say, [12:35] Hey, Mike Tyson, in my opinion, should really be given another break. [12:39] I mean, they put him in jail before he was even guilty, as far as I was concerned. [12:42] Do you believe he'll fight again, and do you believe he'll ever be the heavyweight champ again? [12:46] I think he'll fight again. [12:47] I don't know that he'll be the heavyweight champ again. [12:49] In the prison that he's in, they don't allow boxing. [12:52] That's a long layoff. [12:54] Some of the young fighters that are coming up in the heavyweight division are great. [12:57] But Ali came back from the years that he was off. [12:59] Well, Ali came back. [13:00] Ali was totally unique. [13:01] He was a unique man. [13:02] And maybe Mike will come back. [13:04] I think Mike probably will be the champion again. [13:06] But you have some young fighters coming up, heavyweight fighters, like Lennox Lewis, who is absolutely phenomenal. [13:12] You think Holyfield's going to lose? [13:14] I think Holyfield, I'm not sure if he's going to lose now, but I think your next champion's going to be Lennox Lewis. [13:18] Boy, he sure did a number on this. [13:20] No, he was incredible. [13:21] In London the other day. [13:22] I want to tell you, I mean, he knocked out. [13:23] First round, wasn't it? [13:24] Second round. [13:25] And this gentleman went 18 or 20 rounds with Mike. [13:28] Well, that was his claim to fame, that he survived being in the ring with Tyson. [13:31] Lennox Lewis is probably the real thing. [13:33] I mean, he could be the first real thing since Mike, and it'll be interesting. [13:37] And he's younger, and he's this and that. [13:38] What is your fascination? [13:40] Are you an athlete? [13:41] I am pretty much of an athlete. [13:43] Scratch golfer or a closer? [13:44] Scratch golfer. [13:45] You mean like you do par 72, 73 on good courses? [13:49] On good courses. [13:49] Yeah, up against good players? [13:51] Up against good players. [13:52] For money or not for money? [13:53] Well, I like playing for money because it gives you an interest. [13:56] I mean, it really does. [13:57] Golf was something that really helped me through a period. [13:59] When I was really, you know, there's a point at which you can't push. [14:02] You have to sort of sit back and wait and see how the chips are falling. [14:04] And during the adversity period. [14:06] During the adversity period. [14:07] And I'd go out on the golf course, and sometimes I'd go out with some friends who are good golfers, and you'd play. [14:12] And you really don't think about all of the problems of the world and the problems of everything. [14:16] And again, you know, I like to blame myself. [14:18] But, I mean, one of the things is, frankly, I was doing so well and it was all so easy that I took it easy. [14:23] And all of a sudden, I started relying on other people. [14:26] And I said, listen, you went to the Wharton School of Finance. [14:28] You're a genius. [14:28] You take care of this, and you take care of that, and you do this. [14:31] And I stopped. [14:32] And I got rid of people, and I did it myself. [14:35] And since then, things have been fantastic. [14:38] I mean, it's just been a whole. [14:38] 92 is the best year of your life? [14:40] I think 92 could be certainly one of the best years of my life because it really all came together for me, financially speaking, and in so many other ways. [14:48] I read all these numbers, and this is not investigative journalism here. [14:52] We're interested in what makes you tick, and we don't have the resources or the manpower or the time doing a nightly show to do what somebody would do if they spent six months working on a piece about you. [15:00] But you do have the brain. [15:02] Help me with the numbers. [15:04] Do you owe $5 billion? [15:06] No, at one point, I guess I owed pretty close to $5 billion, but I had assets far in excess of that. [15:11] And they passed a 1986 tax law, which was just absolute stupidity by the politicians. [15:17] Yeah, but a lot of people supported that. [15:18] But I mean, Nerman and Baker and Bill Bradley and a lot of other people thought this was a tax reform act of all time. [15:24] Yeah, I like Bill Bradley. [15:25] And Jack Kemp, too, did he not? [15:26] I like Bill Bradley, and I like a lot of the people that you mentioned. [15:29] And they didn't really support, but Bill Bradley did very much. [15:32] Yeah, Bradley was huge. [15:33] And I have to tell you, he destroyed the home building industry in the United States. [15:36] He destroyed the savings and loans in the United States. [15:38] The tax reform act of 86 did? [15:39] Absolutely. [15:40] What happened is incentive was taken out of the real estate industry. [15:44] And the industry is such as savings and loans. [15:46] They're based on real estate. [15:47] And when the values went down, and they plummeted, they absolutely plummeted. [15:51] So the savings and loans had billions of dollars in real estate that now all of a sudden is one half the billions of dollars in real estate. [15:57] Yeah, but you know better than I do is that during that time, I mean, the savings and loan crisis came about [16:02] because a lot of savings and loan lent a lot of money to developers that were bad loans and should not ever have been made. [16:08] And then all of a sudden... [16:09] That's true. [16:09] That's true. [16:10] And I have to tell you, it's 100% true. [16:12] But a lot of that was exacerbated. [16:13] A lot of loans that could have been good loans were made into bad loans because of the change, [16:18] because of the 1986 tax law change. [16:20] And what that did is all of a sudden you had resolution trust, and you're paying billions and billions. [16:25] In order to save $5 billion in taxes, we're now paying trillions of dollars to save industries and save banks. [16:31] And some people have come along and made a ton of money because of resolution trust. [16:35] And some people have made a lot of money. [16:35] I see where Ron Perlman the other day made a billion dollars or something. [16:39] Well, I don't know what he made, but frankly, he's a good man. [16:41] I hope he did make a lot of money. [16:42] But it's the government's fault. [16:43] The government passed a very stupid law. [16:45] They have to put the incentive back into real estate. [16:47] I think they're doing it. [16:48] I think they're going to do it. [16:49] Here's the other side. [16:51] It is that people with great entrepreneurial gifts like you get yourself extended too far, [17:00] too much debt and too much extension. [17:02] And then when, as it happens in America, there is a business cycle. [17:06] And when the economy goes up and goes down, if you get yourself extended too far and you've [17:11] got a huge debt service, all of a sudden, push comes to shove and you find yourself in [17:16] a very, very, between a rock and a hard place. [17:19] And it's that, extending yourself too far, that causes so many people to come to ruin. [17:26] Well, I think you're right. [17:27] I mean, I think I'm not going to not take blame for that. [17:30] I think everybody takes blame for that because anybody that does anything, the only people [17:33] that don't get in trouble are the people that don't do anything. [17:35] If you play it safe and no risk, then there's no reward. [17:37] I mean, when I do things, I built the Taj Mahal. [17:39] They said a billion dollar building. [17:40] How can it possibly? [17:41] And now it's turned out to be tremendously successful. [17:43] It takes time. [17:43] You've got to be able to get over the hump. [17:45] Riverside South is going to be tremendously successful. [17:47] Well, let's stop at Riverside South, though. [17:48] I mean, first of all, what did you, here is one of the arguments made about Riverside South, [17:52] that you faced a huge opposition on the part of the Planning Commission. [17:58] A lot of people who did not want to see a huge development over there. [18:01] You turned it around, and most people give you the credit for turning it around. [18:05] So, you know, what, 9-0? [18:06] How many people on the commission? [18:07] I don't remember. [18:08] 12-0 vote. [18:08] 12-0 vote. [18:11] How did you do it? [18:12] And did you make so many concessions in doing it that it no longer is an economically viable project? [18:19] Well, the only way you can talk about viability is what's going to happen with the market. [18:22] Today, nothing's viable. [18:23] Okay. [18:24] Today, nothing is viable. [18:25] You could have the greatest piece of land in the best location in New York, and nothing's viable. [18:29] When I did the Grand Hyatt Hotel, I will tell you, the hotel market was in shambles. [18:32] Everybody said, Donald, you're crazy. [18:34] And I was crazy. [18:34] And I did it. [18:35] And all of a sudden, I got it zoned. [18:36] I started building it. [18:37] And by the time it opened, it was a tremendous job. [18:39] Yeah, but would it have been successful without the zoning and the abatement? [18:42] No, it wouldn't have. [18:43] I mean, it wouldn't have. [18:43] Okay, so you got the zoning. [18:44] But I got the zoning. [18:44] Yeah, of course you did. [18:45] Absolutely. [18:45] And now what we're doing is we're asking for certain things in order to make Riverside [18:50] Sales successful. [18:51] We have tremendous popularity. [18:52] Every civic association virtually in New York is supporting it. [18:55] But they're supporting it because of the concessions you made in terms of subway, in terms [18:58] of how much parks, and all of that kind of thing. [19:01] And so the question remains, can you deliver on it? [19:03] Yeah, the bottom line is if the market comes back, you deliver. [19:07] If the market doesn't come back, you don't deliver. [19:09] Now, maybe Clinton's going to come up with a housing program where you're getting a subsidized [19:12] housing or something, in which case you do it in a different way. [19:15] We're looking to get zoning for a piece of land that's unzoned, that's employing no people, [19:21] that's sitting there rotting, that's rat infested. [19:24] And if I get the zoning, which I hope to be able to get, the city desperately needs the [19:28] job. [19:28] If the city turns around, and if the economy turns around, and if incentives are put back [19:32] into real estate on a federal basis, and a federal- [19:34] If and if. [19:35] No, no, there's always ifs. [19:36] But there's been ifs in everything I ever did. [19:37] When I did Trump Tower, in all fairness, people said I was totally crazy. [19:40] It couldn't possibly succeed. [19:41] It was too big. [19:41] It was too expensive. [19:42] It was too everything. [19:43] And it turned out to be probably the most successful condominium development ever in this country. [19:48] And is it profitable? [19:49] Trump Tower? [19:50] Yeah. [19:50] The most. [19:51] I mean, it was the most successful development ever built in this country on a condominium basis. [19:55] I will tell you, two years before I started construction, people thought I was totally [19:59] crazy to do it. [20:01] It really worked out to be fantastic. [20:04] You can say the Taj Mahal. [20:06] You can say Trump Plaza. [20:07] I mean, so many of the jobs I do at the time I'm doing them are supposed to be not good, [20:12] and they turn out to be tremendous success. [20:13] Who makes the decision as to when you go? [20:15] Is that a decision made by you, or is that a decision made by the bankers? [20:18] No, no, no. [20:19] And are you going to parcel those projects off? [20:21] I'll tell you what, the city is lucky to have the bankers that I have on my job because [20:25] they've invested a lot. [20:26] They have confidence in me. [20:28] They have confidence in the city. [20:30] And frankly, they're very lucky because otherwise it could be a war. [20:33] It could be a this. [20:34] It could be a that. [20:34] And that would be bad for everybody. [20:36] I mean, I have some really great banks on this particular site, and they've gone with [20:40] me, and they believe in me. [20:42] And I'll tell you what, I think ultimately the decision is going to be right, and it's [20:47] going to be a great success. [20:47] You know what they say, when you owe as much money as you did, they become your [20:50] partners. [20:51] But that's really a false thing because Reichman owed a lot more money than me, and [20:54] nobody's partners with Reichman. [20:56] And he was bankrupt. [20:57] Reichman's in deep trouble. [20:58] Are they in bankruptcy? [20:59] I want to be fair to them. [21:00] They are in bankruptcy, and frankly, they're in just very deep trouble. [21:04] The banks, my banks have had a great confidence in me. [21:07] They know I'm good. [21:08] They know I do it the best, and they also know that I'm honest. [21:12] And did they have a choice? [21:13] Oh, absolutely. [21:14] They had a lot of money. [21:15] They would have had. [21:15] They would have. [21:16] Were the assets enough there to get their loan back? [21:18] I'm not saying I would have been easy had the other route gone, but I will tell you [21:22] this. [21:22] I will tell you this. [21:23] They absolutely had a choice, and they could have gone a different route. [21:27] And what's the route they could have gone? [21:29] Well, it could have been a contentious route. [21:31] Rather than working and working with me, et cetera, et cetera, it could have been a contentious [21:34] route. [21:35] And that would have been bad for me. [21:37] It would have been bad for them. [21:38] They could have put you up against the wall and said, you owe us this money. [21:40] You can't pay it back. [21:41] We call the tune. [21:41] They could have done that, and I think if they did that, it would have been bad for [21:45] everybody, including them. [21:46] And I think they understood that. [21:48] But more importantly, see, I found out- [21:49] You're bad for them because they would have lost money. [21:51] Very much. [21:52] I think so. [21:53] I think so. [21:54] I found out a couple of things about banks. [21:56] First of all, I find the banks to be very, very underrated in terms of the intelligence [22:00] level, the whole thing. [22:01] I mean, I have worked with the banks now very closely for a period of two years, and [22:05] these guys have done a fantastic job, at least as far as my stuff is concerned. [22:10] I've done great for them, and they've done great for me. [22:14] And my thing is back. [22:15] I mean, I believe that in six months, in 12 months, I may be stronger than I was two [22:20] years ago or three years ago. [22:21] I think I will be stronger than I was two or three years ago. [22:24] I would like to see an uptick in the market. [22:25] I think you're going to have an uptick in the market. [22:27] Why do you think you'll be stronger? [22:28] I mean, now that you clearly have given up equity. [22:30] A very little equity. [22:32] What have I given up? [22:33] You know, the story is that I gave up equity. [22:34] What have I given up? [22:35] I sold the shuttle for a lot of money. [22:37] Well, was that you made more money than you sold it for more money than you paid for or [22:41] not? [22:42] No, no, no. [22:42] I'll tell you what. [22:43] Because you sold it for a lot of money, but sold it for less than you paid for. [22:47] It's not a positive, is it? [22:47] No, no, no. [22:47] I didn't reduce. [22:48] Not for less. [22:49] I reduced my debt by hundreds of millions of dollars by the sale of the shuttle. [22:54] But you sold it for less than you paid for. [22:55] No, I didn't. [22:56] You didn't? [22:56] I actually sold it probably for more than I paid for it. [22:59] But it's a very complex formula. [23:01] And if you sit down with a pencil and paper, we can maybe figure it out someday in five [23:05] years because it's a long-term deal. [23:06] We don't want to bore everybody with it. [23:07] But I sold the shuttle. [23:08] I got rid of a tremendous amount of debt. [23:10] I got rid of a lot of personal guarantees. [23:12] The Taj Mahal, I have- [23:13] Personal guarantees are unsecured loans from friends or what? [23:16] No, personal guarantees being personal guarantees to banks. [23:18] We're a personal guarantee, a piece of a loan. [23:21] Basically, if you take the Atlantic City properties, I have up to 80% of the Taj Mahal. [23:27] It's the things making a fortune. [23:28] Well, is it making a fortune? [23:30] Stay with me and ask this question. [23:32] Is it making a fortune or is it generating a fortune in revenue, but it has a fortune [23:36] plus in expenses? [23:37] No, it has a big fortune in expenses. [23:39] I mean, it's run first class. [23:40] It's a four-star hotel. [23:41] Okay, but that's the point. [23:42] Then how much of this in the end is net-net cash flow? [23:44] Well, I'll give you an example. [23:45] Or how much is it simply that a lot of money is flowing in, but also out the other door [23:48] is a lot of money going the other way to pay for it? [23:50] I mean, I'll give you an example. [23:51] We'll have probably $80 million in interest. [23:53] I think the Taj could have a cash flow of maybe $30 to $40 million after debt. [23:58] That's some cash flow. [24:00] Now, that's a great cash flow. [24:01] Now, what do I do with it? [24:02] I do with the West Side Yards. [24:03] I do the Riverside South. [24:04] I do other things. [24:06] But the Taj Mahals turned out very successfully. [24:08] Trump Plaza. [24:08] I own 100% of Trump Plaza. [24:10] You know, there's this misnomer that I sold like this or that. [24:13] I sold very little. [24:14] I mean, when you think of it, I sold... [24:16] But why didn't your friend Greenberg from Bear Stearns say he used to own 100% of assets [24:21] that were worth nothing. [24:22] Now, he owns 50% of things that are making a lot of money. [24:25] Well, what happened in Atlantic City... [24:26] That's a difference. [24:27] Well, there is a difference. [24:28] And I own 50% of the castle. [24:30] Right. [24:30] But when I say I own 50%, I'm also paying much less interest because I sold 50% to bondholders. [24:36] Right. [24:37] And in return for that, I got a reduction in debt, a reduction in this, and a reduction in interest. [24:41] So it's making a lot more money. [24:42] In Trump Plaza's case, in Atlantic City, I own 100% of it. [24:46] And that is turning out to be fantastic. [24:48] I can take your word on all of this. [24:49] By the way, Charlie, I have to tell you, because of the fact that the big differences, [24:52] and that's what you see in all the casino things, because of the fact that... [24:55] They want to see you as a winner because if you're a winner, it means that they're a winner. [24:58] Well, they don't want to see me as a winner, actually, because I have to tell you, [25:01] when things started going bad, I was on the cover. [25:03] But instead of my hands being up, I had my chin down. [25:05] Okay. [25:06] So nobody wants to see me be a winner. [25:08] Let me just stay with that image for a second. [25:09] Was it embarrassing for you? [25:11] You know, they say about you, they took his toys away. [25:15] They took his yacht away. [25:17] They took his... [25:18] Nobody took it away. [25:18] I sold one. [25:19] Yeah, but I mean, did the banks put you on an allowance or not? [25:22] I mean, help us understand how bad it got for you and whether you were embarrassed and [25:26] whether you said, wow. [25:28] Well, when you say embarrassed, I didn't love waking up in the morning and walking out the [25:32] street. [25:32] But help us understand that. [25:33] I mean, you were a guy who was the big winner. [25:34] And all of a sudden, the paper's found a story that's saying, Trump in trouble. [25:38] Trump, golden boy, no longer has Midas touch. [25:41] Right. [25:41] You know, I'll tell you what the hardest part is, and the hardest thing about life to understand. [25:47] In baseball, if you get 15 runs in the first inning and you don't get any more runs, you [25:51] still have 15 runs at the end of the game. [25:53] Well, it depends on what the other guy still does. [25:54] Well, no, but generally speaking, you're going to win that game, okay? [25:57] You know, it's as sad as it is to say, but you're going to win that game. [25:59] You get 15 runs, it's pretty well over. [26:01] Ask the Atlanta Braves. [26:02] Okay, I mean, we've seen some examples, but anyway. [26:04] In life, in life, I was 15 and 0, and then I had one very bad year. [26:10] Now, I had a bad year, maybe it was my fault because, hey, it was a lot of people's fault. [26:13] It was also the government's fault. [26:15] It was a lot of people's fault. [26:16] You'll take some responsibility, though. [26:17] Absolutely. [26:18] I have to, because I'd be a fool if I didn't. [26:20] But I have to tell you, a lot of smart people are in real deep trouble right now, and I'm [26:24] not, and a lot of people, really smart people, are dead. [26:27] They're gone. [26:28] They're buried. [26:28] They're over the history. [26:29] And so, one more time, why are they dead, buried, gone, history, and you are alive, well, [26:35] and as they say. [26:36] Before I explain that, before I explain that, I just want to say that you have 15 great [26:40] years, you have one bad year, and people judge you by your last thing. [26:44] You're only as good as your last thing. [26:45] You're only as good as your last article or what you've done lately, and that's it. [26:49] I mean, you take a guy like Harry Helmson. [26:51] I mean, the man had 50 great years, then, unfortunately, he married Leona. [26:55] I mean, this was like a major mistake. [26:57] Here we go again. [26:58] He marries Leona. [26:59] Hey, yeah, yeah, poor Harry. [27:00] I feel so sorry. [27:01] If you're Harry, get rid of her. [27:02] Just leave her alone. [27:03] Find a new woman if you can. [27:05] But I'll tell you what. [27:06] He marries Leona. [27:07] So now, all of a sudden, he has a couple of bad years, to put it, mildly bad years. [27:10] I mean, we're talking about major. [27:11] They don't say the score is 50 to 2. [27:13] Go ahead. [27:13] No, they don't say the score is 50 to 2. [27:16] As far as they're concerned, Harry is like this major failure, and that's a shame, because [27:19] that's not the way life should work. [27:20] It should be 50 to 2. [27:21] That's a pretty good record. [27:23] Well, I had 15 great. [27:24] Then I had the one bad year, and one and a half real bad years, where I had a fight. [27:28] I mean, it was a struggle. [27:29] It was a survival. [27:30] It was surviving at the top. [27:31] I wrote the book. [27:32] It was surviving at the top. [27:34] And it wasn't easy, and it wasn't pleasant. [27:36] Did you ever think you'd lose? [27:38] Did you ever lose confidence? [27:40] Did you ever say, I may not get out of this? [27:43] No. [27:44] Not once? [27:44] Not once, and the reason I didn't say it is because I had to go back and do it myself. [27:49] You see, I built what I built myself, and I did it by working long hours and working hard [27:55] and working smart. [27:56] More importantly than anything else is by using my own brain, and there was a point where [28:00] I was making so much so fast, and it was so easy that I almost got bored, and it's true, [28:04] and I write about this. [28:05] I mean, I'm writing about this. [28:06] It's really been an experience. [28:07] I should believe you here saying, in a way, this was good, because it gave me a chance to [28:12] test myself, the adversity was good. [28:14] It put me back and made me leaner and hungrier again because everything was at stake, and [28:18] therefore, I had to pay attention. [28:20] Well, I think I'll look at it in the future as being good. [28:23] And when it was happening, I had no choice. [28:25] I just had to do it, and I did it myself. [28:27] And all of a sudden, I'll give you an example. [28:29] Riverside South. [28:30] I've had Riverside South for five years. [28:32] I've had the land for five years. [28:33] I went through a succession of executives that were in charge of Riverside South. [28:37] A year and a half ago, I took it over myself. [28:39] And as you say, I got a 12 to nothing vote, and you were told that I sort of did it myself. [28:43] I did do it myself. [28:44] No, I read that you did it. [28:45] Right. [28:45] Okay. [28:45] I mean, you can't believe everything you read, but I did do it largely by myself with [28:50] a group of people, but I really spearheaded something that's turned out to be, I think, [28:54] going to be a great thing. [28:56] I really went back to work, and I really did things myself. [28:59] And I think that's why I survived, and I think maybe, who knows? [29:02] Let me point out a couple of other things here at this time. [29:04] You lost during this period three key executives. [29:08] Correct. [29:09] Very tough. [29:09] Who died in a helicopter crash. [29:10] And friends. [29:11] And friends. [29:12] Who were running. [29:13] And then you went through some executives after that, and finally put your lawyer in charge [29:16] down there, right? [29:17] It was done a great job. [29:18] You had a divorce. [29:19] Right. [29:20] That was, you were the, fair to say, people were laughing at you about this divorce. [29:24] And we were amused in the tabloids. [29:26] I was living in New York at the time, but we were amused by it. [29:28] But at the same time, some people said, enough of this. [29:31] I'm tired of reading about this kind of stuff. [29:32] Oh, I would have loved to say enough. [29:33] I mean, I couldn't help it. [29:34] It was a fun thing. [29:34] Yeah, but you were feeding the columnists, too. [29:35] I wasn't feeding. [29:36] You had no conversation with all these people? [29:38] You know, it wasn't a feed. [29:39] It wasn't a feed. [29:40] It was a frenzy, I have to tell you. [29:41] And I wasn't feeding anybody. [29:43] They were feeding themselves. [29:44] They were making up stories. [29:45] I called up one of the top people in one of the New York tabloids, and I said, hey, look, this [29:49] is ridiculous. [29:49] This story didn't happen. [29:50] Don't put it in. [29:51] He said, I know it didn't happen, but Donald was selling papers like crazy. [29:54] And they knew it before the story was written. [29:56] They put it in anyway. [29:58] And I think for 28 days in a row, I mean, you know, we talk about Woody Allen was a big [30:01] story. [30:01] This thing just swamped everything. [30:03] It did. [30:03] This swamped everything. [30:04] This was the biggest of the big. [30:06] It was crazy. [30:06] It was out of control. [30:08] And I guess it had all the elements of a soap opera. [30:10] Did it bring any satisfaction to you that during this adversity, you were able to get out [30:14] of the marriage at a time, perhaps you gave up a lot less money than you might have imagined [30:19] you would do at another time. [30:22] Now, come on. [30:22] Tell me the truth. [30:23] I mean, a lot of, there were those people that say that I did this purposely in order [30:27] to get out of the divorce. [30:27] Well, no, but there are those who said that you used that adversity as a time to say, [30:31] you know, it may not ever get any better. [30:32] So you better, you know, people were saying you better make your deal now. [30:35] Yeah. [30:36] True? [30:36] I was very happy to pay Ivana what I paid her. [30:39] I mean, this was what I was supposed to pay her and this is what I did pay her because [30:42] she, if anything happened a year ago where I went down the tubes, where I really would [30:47] have ended up with nothing, she and the children would always have been taken care of. [30:51] And that was very important to me. [30:52] I mean, at the time, don't forget, I was being sued for $2 billion at one point. [30:56] By her? [30:56] By her. [30:57] Right. [30:57] And that was going to be a nasty, contentious suit. [31:00] And frankly, had I not had a glitch, I would probably not be on this program right now. [31:06] I'd be at divorce court. [31:07] If you hadn't had one. [31:08] Oh, if you hadn't been down. [31:09] Had I not been here. [31:10] If you hadn't bottomed out and put some pressure on her and her attorney. [31:13] Well, it wasn't a question of pressure. [31:14] I mean, there was a point where she probably felt I wasn't going to make it. [31:18] I mean, there was a point where a lot of people felt I wasn't going to make it, except me. [31:21] I really felt I was. [31:21] What were you telling her differently that maybe? [31:23] I wasn't telling her anything. [31:24] Was anybody saying, you know. [31:24] I wasn't telling her anything. [31:25] What she had to do is read the New York Times and the Wall Street Journal. [31:27] I mean, they were making these dire predictions about me and others, but I guess I got more [31:31] print than anybody else. [31:32] That's the negative. [31:32] I mean, the good is when you're doing well and they do that. [31:35] The bad is when you're doing bad, they do it the other way, all right? [31:38] And they did it the other way times 10. [31:40] So what happened is had I not been involved in a glitch, I don't believe that we would [31:46] be here right now. [31:47] I would be studying for tomorrow's examination before trial, okay? [31:50] And what happened, it got- [31:51] You would have duked it out in a lawsuit. [31:53] Well, I think Ivana probably would have gone further than she did, but it got so bad and [31:58] the stories began getting so bad that she said, well, I better take, you know, what I'm entitled [32:03] to according to the contract that we had signed. [32:05] And she ended up taking the $10 million plus to this, plus to that. [32:09] And it's probably a package of 20 or $25 million. [32:11] And I think she was smart in doing it in the end. [32:13] I think her lawyers were horrendous. [32:15] I think she was horribly represented. [32:16] She could have gotten a lot more money earlier if she had decent lawyers, but she had lawyers that- [32:20] Meaning what? [32:21] She could have gotten a lot more money earlier- [32:22] Well, no, at an earlier stage- [32:24] You would have been more amenable to giving more money in a settlement. [32:26] I offered more money than she ended up getting. [32:28] But Ivana, who is somebody that I'll always love, she decided in her great wisdom to hire [32:35] these characters that were just looking for fame and fortune for themselves, in my opinion. [32:39] And they did a bad job for her. [32:40] They really did. [32:41] And my folks did a great job for me. [32:43] I had a wonderful lawyer who did a great job for me. [32:46] And in the end, though, I'm saddened by it because I would have preferred the initial [32:50] deal with Ivana. [32:52] But she was very, very poorly represented in this divorce action. [32:55] You must have some sensitivity, though, for a woman in which she might be going through. [33:00] I mean, you seem all powerful there, and she doesn't know, and she has to lean on the advice [33:04] that she gets. [33:05] And people are saying- [33:05] Well, no, she was leaning- [33:06] This guy's got a lot of tons of money. [33:08] Yeah, but she was leaning on the Wall Street Journal. [33:10] I mean, when the bad stories started coming out, she was believing those stories. [33:14] And she should have believed those stories. [33:15] I'm not even saying the stories were wrong. [33:17] You know, I've done things, but I'm not saying those stories at the time were wrong. [33:21] The economy was atrocious, and, you know, the business was bad, and the real estate business [33:26] was horrendous, and the casino business was bad, and we're opening up the Taj Mahal in [33:30] the middle of a war. [33:31] Right. [33:31] Okay. [33:32] You know, I'm opening the largest building in the world in the middle of a war. [33:34] And people were not flooding Atlantic City at that time. [33:36] Well, no. [33:36] I mean, everyone's sitting home watching the war. [33:38] And also, she's reading about you and another woman. [33:40] That can't be pleasing. [33:41] She's reading, and I never left for another woman. [33:42] I mean, this is one of the great misconceptions. [33:44] I left because I got tired of the balls, and I'm tired of the ballroom gowns, and all the [33:48] nonsense. [33:48] What does that mean? [33:49] Well, I'm just one that doesn't necessarily believe. [33:52] You know, they call them the so-called charity events, but the people that have these charity [33:55] events are probably the least charitable people I've ever met. [33:58] And they have them for their own, you know, vilification. [34:01] They have them for their own. [34:02] Whatever it is, they have them for their own, and they want the press, and they want the nonsense. [34:08] But why do we care if it generates a lot of money for charity? [34:10] I'm not sure that it does. [34:12] I'm really not sure that it does. [34:14] I mean, I look at some of them, and I look at the expense, and I look at the magnificent [34:16] table settings at the Plaza Hotel, which I'm very happy about, but at the Plaza Hotel [34:21] and all the other places. [34:22] And in the end, I don't think they make a hell of a lot for charity. [34:26] And then I look at United Way, where the man's paid, you know, virtually millions of dollars [34:30] to run United Way. [34:32] And I look at what happens in charities. [34:33] I mean, I study. [34:34] I study charities, and there are very few well-run charities. [34:37] So you got tired of the gowns and the ball and all that stuff? [34:39] I got tired of the scene, and I knew the scene, and I knew the people, and some of the people [34:43] I like, in all fairness, and some of the people that I don't like. [34:45] They're a vicious breed. [34:47] If you know someone listening to that would just hear you say that, say, that's not what [34:50] happened. [34:50] This was a guy who was on top of the world, and he wanted to have his cake and eat it [34:56] too. [34:57] He wanted to be out and wanted out because he wanted to date a lot of young, attractive [35:01] women who viewed him as a giant catch and an interesting man to be with. [35:07] Hey, I'm out now, and it's great. [35:08] I have to tell you, I really like it. [35:10] I think it's great. [35:11] I've never had a better time. [35:12] Tell me what's great about it. [35:13] I just like it. [35:14] I mean, for whatever it is. [35:15] Maybe I shouldn't like it. [35:16] The freedom, the independence. [35:17] It's a freedom. [35:17] It's a freedom. [35:18] I can do what I want. [35:19] I can be with who I want to be with. [35:21] I really like it, and I would tell you if I didn't. [35:24] And by the way, I think at a certain point, I won't like it. [35:26] I'll get tired of it. [35:27] At a certain point, you'll say, I want to settle down with one person? [35:29] At a certain point, I think I'll say that. [35:30] I think I'll say that very strongly. [35:32] But at this point, I do like it. [35:34] I had a fabulous wife in many respects. [35:38] Great kids. [35:40] Fantastic children. [35:41] Great children. [35:41] I love them, and so therefore, that was so worthwhile. [35:44] I had another friend later who was also fantastic for a fairly long period of time, and I just [35:51] didn't want to settle down. [35:52] I mean, I didn't want to get married. [35:53] I didn't want to marry Marla, and I didn't want to settle down. [35:57] And I'm just not ready for it. [35:58] It's just not me. [35:59] I mean, it's not right now. [36:00] At some point... [36:01] Is that what killed that relationship then? [36:03] Well, a lot of things perhaps killed it, but I would say that probably that's the predominant [36:08] thing. [36:08] I mean, I just, I was very antsy. [36:10] I didn't want to settle. [36:11] And of course, don't forget, you know, I was, I'm busy. [36:14] I'm doing a lot of different things, and I love doing it. [36:16] I'm so happy now. [36:17] You know, it's, I enjoy getting up and going out to the wars, and the wars are now becoming [36:23] battles, and it's just worked out well. [36:26] But you can't devote lots of time to a relationship when you're going through this. [36:29] There is also said in this piece by Julia Baumgartner that you love the limelight, and that [36:36] you seek in the public and the public's adulation something, that the mirror of that is somehow [36:43] important, confirming, true? [36:47] I don't think so. [36:48] I think that I loved it at one point. [36:51] I think I've gotten used to it. [36:52] I think I do well in it. [36:55] Well, see, I look at it differently. [36:56] It's great for my business. [36:57] I mean, the fact is that my casinos are up more than, as you know, my casinos are up more [37:01] than any casinos in the United States. [37:04] We're up number one, two, and three in increases in Atlantic City, number one, two, and three [37:08] every month. [37:10] But are they at the same time, and I don't want to hammer at this question, at the same [37:12] time, the most profitable? [37:14] It's one thing to be up in revenue, and you're saying they're up in revenue. [37:16] You're not necessarily saying that they are the most profitable. [37:19] Taj Mahal has the largest gross operating profit of any casino in Atlantic City by far. [37:25] By far. [37:25] It's not even close. [37:26] So when you're factoring expenses, it has the gross operating profit. [37:28] Yeah, well, it also has the biggest gross. [37:31] I mean, it's got the biggest gross, but it's got the largest gross operating profit in Atlantic [37:34] City. [37:35] But what's happening is a lot of people... [37:36] Now, I will say this. [37:38] When people thought I was going down, they sort of deserted me. [37:41] And, you know, this is not the way it should be in life. [37:43] But tell me who deserted you. [37:44] No, no, no. [37:44] I'm talking about customers. [37:46] I'm not only talking about, you know, local friends, this, that. [37:50] When the customers, the Taj Mahal customer, when the customers, the casino customers, even [37:55] the condominium buyer customers, when they thought I was going down for the count, they [37:59] really did desert me. [38:00] I have to say. [38:01] Now that they see I'm doing well again, now that they see I'm back, now that they see [38:05] all these crazy magazine covers, I will tell you one of the reasons that my casinos are [38:09] up so much more is that they're all coming back. [38:11] But are you saying, therefore, it makes sense for you to promote this notion? [38:15] I mean, look at this picture here. [38:16] I mean, you like this. [38:17] Isn't he a handsome guy? [38:18] You know, you like this, don't you? [38:19] No, I don't really. [38:20] But is it good for you to promote that because it says Donald is back and all of this stuff [38:25] about scrambles off the canvas, in a sense, is good for business. [38:28] So, therefore, you're promoting that image. [38:29] You want people to believe that you're back. [38:32] I mean, as an example, it's late in the evening right now. [38:34] It's not that you're a fantastic guy, and we did this down in New Orleans, but in New [38:37] Orleans, it was during the afternoon. [38:38] It was really much more pleasant. [38:40] Right now, it's late in the evening, and here we are doing an interview. [38:42] Yeah, right. [38:42] It happens to be. [38:43] What a heck of an interview it is. [38:44] I hope we're going to have a good time. [38:45] I mean, I hope you get good ratings, too. [38:47] I do, too. [38:47] Anything for you, Joe. [38:48] Exactly. [38:49] But I'll tell you what, it happens to be. [38:51] Poor boy from the North. [38:51] Yeah, go ahead. [38:52] That's right. [38:52] It happens to be great for business. [38:54] I mean, the fact that it's coming back. [38:56] Now, it would be nice if it were the other way. [38:57] If you have problems, wouldn't it be nice if everyone came back? [39:00] But apart from all that, come on, ego. [39:03] I have an ego. [39:03] Of course you do. [39:04] I've never met a successful person that's going to have an ego. [39:05] Nor have I. [39:06] Nor have I. [39:07] People driven by it. [39:08] I mean, Mother Teresa has an ego. [39:10] Absolutely. [39:10] You know? [39:11] So you're bigger than you would ever believe. [39:13] Well, I've never had the pleasure. [39:15] But nevertheless, I mean, part of it, you love the limelight. [39:18] You love beyond the business and what it does and the whole sense of the Trump image. [39:22] You like it. [39:23] You like the fact that there's security guys coming ahead of you and sleeping behind you [39:28] and there's this adulation and women want to be with you and wherever you go, there are [39:33] flash bulbs and all of this kind of thing. [39:36] You like it. [39:36] I don't mind it. [39:37] I don't mind it. [39:38] Don't mind it or relish it? [39:39] I'll tell you what. [39:40] I used to like it more. [39:41] I still like it. [39:42] Yeah. [39:42] I probably would miss it if it weren't here. [39:45] Because it might. [39:45] I probably would. [39:46] No, I probably would. [39:46] Because you've grown accustomed to it as part of your... [39:48] Maybe. [39:49] I have been. [39:49] You know, it's been sort of wild. [39:51] But I also think it's great for business. [39:53] I mean, it is great for the casino business. [39:55] It's great for the condominium business. [39:56] It's great. [39:57] Hey, they just came out with a report, the Cochran Report, that Trump apartments in New [40:01] York sell for more on a square foot basis, which is really the only... [40:04] Than any apartments in New York by far. [40:06] It's not even close. [40:08] And a lot of that, a lot of that is all of this nonsense. [40:10] Let me talk about people you ought to say sorry to, if there might be. [40:14] One is, and I'm talking... [40:16] One, I raised this person first. [40:18] That guy in Philadelphia, you know, who they say you got fired. [40:22] You remember the guy who did the stock analysis? [40:24] I would say so. [40:25] He did great. [40:25] I mean, he came out, he did well, and now he's my biggest champion. [40:29] Okay, but you got him fired. [40:31] You can't... [40:32] You got to look back at... [40:32] I can't help that his firm fired him. [40:34] Oh, now, come on. [40:34] Did they fire him because of a call from you? [40:36] I have no idea. [40:36] Okay. [40:37] Really, I have no idea. [40:37] But don't you have any regret for that? [40:38] I mean, one man may have lost a job because you leaned on his... [40:42] Because he's a tough guy, he's a savvy guy, he's come out great, he's a stock analyst, [40:47] and he's now my biggest champion. [40:49] He's saying it's the greatest comeback. [40:50] In fact, he used the word brilliant. [40:51] I hate to tell you this. [40:52] What's his name? [40:53] His name is Marvin Rothman. [40:54] That's right. [40:55] He did say that. [40:55] And he was a great critic of me, and now he's saying that this was one of the most brilliant [40:59] things I've ever seen. [40:59] So you did him a favor by getting him fired? [41:01] Well, I think in the long run, I think he's probably doing better now than he was doing that. [41:04] So you did him a favor. [41:06] Indirectly, I did him a favor. [41:07] I wasn't looking to do him a favor, but I think indirectly... [41:09] But don't you regret that? [41:10] I mean, you know, this guy loses his job. [41:12] No, because that's life. [41:13] You can't look back. [41:13] I don't look back. [41:14] No regrets then? [41:15] I mean, there's no one that you'd say no. [41:17] If I had it to do again, would I have done things differently? [41:19] Yes. [41:19] What would you have done differently? [41:22] I probably, instead of stopping with the sale of the St. Moritz where I sold and I made a [41:27] lot of money, I probably would have sold some other things. [41:30] I think I would have treated people differently. [41:33] I think that, you know, some of the people that were most loyal to me are people that I didn't [41:37] think would be. [41:38] Some of the people that were least loyal to me are people that... [41:40] You got it. [41:40] I think I would have treated them differently. [41:42] I think I would have treated different groups differently. [41:44] I would have wiped the floor with the guys that weren't loyal, which I will now do, which [41:48] is great. [41:49] You know, I love getting even with people, but I will... [41:52] Slow up. [41:53] You love getting even with people. [41:54] Oh, absolutely. [41:55] You don't believe in the eye for the eye? [41:57] You do. [41:57] No. [41:57] I know you well enough. [41:58] I think you do. [41:59] But anyway, but... [42:00] But tell me. [42:01] I mean, you're going to get even with some people. [42:04] Because they... [42:04] Yeah, I know if given the opportunity, if given the opportunity, I will get even with [42:07] some people that were disloyal to me. [42:09] I mean, I had a group of people that were disloyal. [42:11] But how do you define disloyalty? [42:13] They didn't come to my aid. [42:15] Well, what did they do? [42:16] They didn't do small things. [42:16] They turned their back on you? [42:17] No, but they didn't do small things that would have helped. [42:19] They didn't do larger things. [42:20] Give me one example. [42:22] Well, I had one man who frankly was on the board of a company that I was selling. [42:28] And it was a tremendous sale for me. [42:30] It was a great sale. [42:31] It would have been a very helpful sale. [42:33] And it ended up going through. [42:34] But one of the things is that I had to take... [42:35] Is it a shuttle? [42:36] No, this was a different company. [42:37] It doesn't matter which company. [42:38] And it was a great thing for me. [42:41] But one of the things is I had to clear the board. [42:43] Now, I only put him on that board because of the fact I thought I was doing him a favor. [42:47] He got some money by being a board member, et cetera, et cetera. [42:49] He contributed nothing. [42:51] When it came time... [42:52] I have five board members. [42:53] When it came time to removing the slate and getting all my people... [42:57] Everyone said, I'm leaving. [42:59] Steve Ballabaugh, Harvey Freeman. [43:00] Everyone left. [43:00] Except this one particular person said, I don't want to leave. [43:03] He told my people, I don't want to leave. [43:05] Well, when I heard about it, I went nuts. [43:07] And I blasted him. [43:08] And all of a sudden, he left. [43:10] But I consider that a great act of disloyalty. [43:12] I put him on that board. [43:14] Now, he did leave. [43:15] I mean, he did leave. [43:16] It's a little like Andrew. [43:17] I mean, Andrew ended up in favor of Riverside South. [43:20] But for all I had done, I had never asked him for anything. [43:23] This is a great job. [43:24] This is a job that he should have been in favor. [43:25] He had to do a poll in order to find out whether or not he was going to support him. [43:29] Yeah, but how can you get even with Andy Stein? [43:30] I mean, this guy's... [43:31] It's not a question of getting even. [43:32] I can certainly be disappointed in certain people. [43:35] And I was very disappointed. [43:36] Yeah, but you've already said an eye for an eye. [43:37] I mean, he hits you. [43:38] You're going to hit him back. [43:39] Well, I might. [43:39] I might. [43:40] We'll see. [43:40] But how could you hit him back? [43:41] We'll see. [43:41] Hey, time will tell, I guess. [43:43] Are you looking for the opportunity? [43:45] No, I'm not looking. [43:46] I'm just really so disappointed in him. [43:48] I'm disappointed in other people. [43:50] And I was disappointed in this one man that didn't want to get off the board. [43:53] He got off. [43:54] Okay, but that's... [43:55] He got off. [43:55] No, no, he got off. [43:56] He got off after being hit over the head with a cannon, okay? [43:59] What was the cannon? [44:00] The cannon was me. [44:01] And he ended up... [44:02] What was the threat, though? [44:03] I mean, did you blast him in the paper and that was enough? [44:06] No, no, no. [44:06] Or did you say... [44:07] The threat was just sort of a... [44:09] Just a strong threat. [44:10] I mean, he would have gone through a lot of hell if he didn't get off. [44:13] And then he gets off and he acts like he does me a favor. [44:15] He gets off, okay? [44:16] He got off maybe out of fear. [44:17] You owe me, Donald, because I'm getting off the board. [44:19] Yeah, and, you know, it was like one of the great jokes of the century. [44:22] But it ended up that he got off and the deal went through. [44:25] But that doesn't mean I have to love this particular guy. [44:28] It doesn't mean I have to love him. [44:29] I want somebody that's loyal from the beginning, [44:32] not somebody that's loyal because they're afraid [44:34] or because they're this or because they're that. [44:36] And I've had a lot of instances like that. [44:38] But... [44:38] And I think, you know, and again, I think the new book... [44:41] And I don't know why I'm promoting a book [44:42] that's not going to come out for three or four months. [44:44] I mean, I don't want to waste a lot of time. [44:45] But I think the most interesting aspect... [44:47] That's right. [44:47] We'll do it when you go national. [44:49] That's right. [44:49] We'll do that for the national. [44:50] Forget the local stuff. [44:51] No, no, the local stuff's important. [44:53] Without the local stuff, there's no national stuff. [44:54] You don't do the second stuff. [44:56] Exactly. [44:56] But the truth is, I think the most interesting aspect [44:58] of that book is the loyalty area, the loyalty chapters. [45:02] I think it's really good. [45:02] You measure loyalty in terms of your own relationship [45:04] with Roy Cohn. [45:06] You feel like that Roy... [45:07] You stuck by Roy Cohn. [45:08] I did. [45:09] You showed your stripes by doing that. [45:11] Well, I don't think I showed my stripes. [45:13] I think... [45:13] You see, I'm so loyal to people. [45:15] Maybe I'm loyal to a fault. [45:16] But I'm so loyal to people [45:17] that when somebody's slightly disloyal to me, [45:19] I look upon it as a great act of horror. [45:22] Who are you going to support for mayor? [45:24] Well, I think David Dinkins, I have to tell you, [45:26] has done a real good comeback. [45:29] You know, you talk about comebacks. [45:30] David Dinkins has done one hell of a comeback [45:32] in the last six months. [45:34] And you saw what happened in Los Angeles [45:36] and you saw what happened. [45:36] People really like the man. [45:38] I mean, I've been with him and I've watched him. [45:40] And he has really become a very popular guy. [45:43] And I think he's going to be very hard to beat [45:44] in a lot of ways. [45:45] Now, I have to tell you that a year and a half ago, [45:47] nobody went to run against George Bush. [45:49] It took a man from Arkansas [45:50] who was the only one, you know, [45:51] virtually one of the few people that wanted to run [45:53] because George Bush was unbeatable. [45:55] There was no way you could beat this guy. [45:57] And he turned out to, you know, [45:58] he just ran out of gas. [45:58] It looked like David Dinkins [45:59] couldn't possibly win re-election a year ago. [46:01] And then you had Los Angeles, [46:02] a lot of other things. [46:03] And now he's in a much better position. [46:04] Well, he really is. [46:05] He's done a great comeback. [46:06] You support him over Giuliani. [46:08] Well, I'm not announcing who I'm supporting. [46:10] And I don't think it's even relevant. [46:11] I just think that Dinkins has really done [46:13] a great job in terms of coming back. [46:15] And I also think he's a great human being. [46:17] I think he's a very fine. [46:19] He helped me, but he was tough. [46:21] He was strong. [46:22] He was very community-oriented. [46:24] He was very much for the people in that sense. [46:26] But when he gave me his word [46:28] that he would now support the job, [46:30] he really lived up to that word. [46:31] There was also a guy on the political scene [46:32] this year named Ross Perot, a billionaire. [46:35] Were you once a billionaire? [46:37] I was, I don't know. [46:38] I was projected as being a billionaire [46:40] times a couple of times. [46:40] I know you were, but we never can tell [46:41] about those numbers. [46:42] You mean you were worth a couple? [46:44] Because I saw that at least $900 million, [46:46] but did you actually have a net worth of- [46:49] Maybe up to the highest of two. [46:50] What did you have yourself up to? [46:52] I don't know. [46:52] I had myself up to maybe what I have right now. [46:54] I don't know. [46:55] Nobody knows what I'm worth. [46:56] What's the Taj Mahal worth? [46:57] What's the West Side Yards? [46:59] I don't know. [46:59] I have no idea what I'm worth. [47:00] What was it used to say about the plaza? [47:01] You said this is a trophy. [47:03] Therefore, it's a different place if it's a trophy. [47:05] It is a trophy. [47:05] If it's the best and unique, [47:07] then people will pay a premium [47:08] for the best and unique. [47:09] But people don't buy trophies so much anymore. [47:11] That's true. [47:12] 1988 trophies were great. [47:13] 1990, you don't talk about trophies. [47:15] Did you pay too much for that trophy? [47:16] Probably. [47:16] No. [47:17] I'll tell you what. [47:17] When I bought the plaza, [47:18] I was offered a huge profit a year after. [47:21] And brilliantly, [47:21] I decided not to take that profit. [47:23] Who sold it to you? [47:24] Was it the basses on that? [47:25] It was a consortium of people. [47:27] The basses were involved? [47:28] And I have to tell you truthfully, [47:29] I'm very happy with my purchase of the plaza hotel. [47:31] I think it's working out fantastically. [47:33] I think it's going to work out. [47:35] You know, adversity is a very funny thing. [47:36] When you have adversity, [47:37] it's like in golf. [47:39] It's like in sports. [47:41] Everybody, [47:42] it's a question of how many bad shots do you hit. [47:44] Not so many good shots, [47:46] but how many bad shots. [47:46] In other words, [47:47] minimize your bad shots. [47:48] You really have to, [47:49] it's not a question of getting, [47:50] because everybody's going to get in trouble. [47:51] It's a question of how do you get out of trouble. [47:53] I think the plaza hotel [47:54] is going to turn out to be a great deal for me. [47:57] I mean, [47:57] it's already turning out to be a great deal for me. [47:59] But golf, [47:59] I think it's going to be great. [48:00] That sporting metaphor may be correct, [48:03] because in golf, [48:04] if you were playing [48:05] and you got to go over the water [48:06] to reach the green, [48:08] sometimes you don't make it over the water. [48:09] Sometimes you don't. [48:10] And then it can put you into a bogey land. [48:13] But I'm not necessarily sure. [48:13] But hey, [48:13] but that's not where I am. [48:14] Although I could have. [48:15] You're not in bogey land now. [48:17] But are you back to par? [48:18] You're not even back to par. [48:19] You're at least a bogey. [48:20] I think, [48:21] no, [48:21] I think, [48:22] again, [48:22] I tell you this, [48:23] and I make this prediction, [48:24] I think in six months, [48:25] I'll be stronger than I was [48:26] three or four years ago, [48:27] whatever my thing. [48:28] That's a birdie. [48:28] I believe, [48:29] what I did is I restructured things [48:31] in the early 90s [48:32] in the bad times, [48:33] and now it's turning out to be very good. [48:35] I believe that I'll be stronger [48:36] than I was two years ago, [48:37] but who knows? [48:38] I mean, [48:38] let's see what happens. [48:39] Let's see what happens with the economy. [48:40] Let's see what happens with the world. [48:41] Ross Perot had a $3 billion [48:42] who was willing to spend it [48:43] and got something, [48:44] I haven't seen the last tally, [48:45] maybe 17, [48:46] 18% of the vote, [48:47] 19% of the vote. [48:48] There was a time [48:49] in which you wanted to tease America [48:51] that you might want to run for president. [48:53] Well, people said that. [48:53] I never did, [48:54] but people said that. [48:55] You didn't go to New Hampshire [48:55] to test the water. [48:56] You didn't go to the influence [48:57] of Roger Stone say, [48:59] you know, [48:59] this is an interesting idea. [49:00] Let's go up and see [49:01] what we can do. [49:02] I really went to New Hampshire [49:03] because they wanted me [49:04] to go to New Hampshire [49:05] and they wanted me to make a speech. [49:05] But you knew that your appearance there [49:07] would generate the talk. [49:08] Well, I certainly did generate talk. [49:09] But you knew that your appearance [49:10] would generate the talk. [49:10] No, I didn't do it for that reason. [49:11] Charlie, I didn't do it for that reason [49:13] and I had no idea [49:13] how much talk would be generated [49:15] and I had no intention [49:16] of running for president [49:17] and I wouldn't have an intention [49:19] of running for president. [49:20] I will say this, [49:21] Ross Perot, [49:22] he made some monumental mistakes. [49:25] Had he not dropped out of the election, [49:27] had he not made the gaffes [49:28] about, you know, [49:28] the watchdogs [49:29] and the guard dogs [49:30] and everybody coming at the House [49:31] and, you know, [49:31] three or four, [49:32] if he didn't have [49:33] three or four bad days [49:34] and they were real bad days, [49:35] he could have conceivably [49:36] won this crazy election. [49:37] You'll get some political people [49:38] who are smarter than you and I both [49:41] about politics [49:41] who will say the same thing. [49:42] Oh, I believe you. [49:43] That he could have made it [49:43] a very competitive race [49:44] and possibly won. [49:45] He was up to 42 points of winning. [49:46] But at the same time, [49:47] whatever it is that made him [49:48] generate $2 billion, [49:50] which enabled him to do [49:51] as well as he did in part, [49:52] in part, [49:52] he was very effective in the debates [49:54] and that had nothing to do [49:55] with how much money he had. [49:56] Right. [49:56] At the same time, [49:57] maybe, you know, [49:58] you have to take the good [49:59] with the bad [50:00] and part of the personality makeup [50:01] that happened making $2 billion [50:02] also made him the way he is [50:04] about sort of the paranoia [50:06] about others. [50:07] Well, the paranoia [50:07] maybe created some of the money, [50:08] but it's not necessarily [50:09] good for politics. [50:10] Or the drive that creates both. [50:11] See, one of the problems [50:12] with politics and politicians [50:13] is that you really can't [50:14] have done very much wrong [50:15] and that means you can't [50:16] have done very much [50:17] because if you're doing a lot, [50:18] hey, I do a lot of things [50:19] and most of them turn out good, [50:21] but some of them [50:21] have to turn out bad [50:22] and it's, you know, [50:23] they'll hit you with a little bad [50:24] and it makes it [50:25] a little bit more difficult. [50:26] Franklin Roosevelt, [50:27] I think, once said, [50:28] Arthur Schlesinger was here [50:29] the other night [50:29] and I'm not sure he said this, [50:30] but I think that FDR once said, [50:32] I'm proud of all my enemies. [50:33] I've earned them. [50:34] What enemies are you proud of? [50:37] Well, I'm proud of having [50:38] a guy like Ed Koch [50:39] as an enemy [50:39] because I think [50:40] he's a major loser. [50:42] He did a lousy job as mayor. [50:44] He's a promoter. [50:45] He's very much of a promoter. [50:46] He did not do a good job [50:47] as a mayor. [50:48] He got very upset [50:49] because after eight years [50:50] of trying to build [50:51] the Wolman skating rink, [50:52] I was able to do it [50:52] in four months [50:53] for about one-tenth [50:54] the money that they spent. [50:56] And instead of thanking me, [50:57] he took great umbrage [50:58] to the fact [50:58] that I was able to do this. [51:00] And I just wanted [51:00] to have my kids [51:01] go ice skating [51:01] in Central Park. [51:02] I got tired of watching [51:03] these people sitting on their, [51:05] I'm not allowed to say asses [51:06] in this program, [51:06] so of course I won't say it. [51:08] But I got tired [51:08] of watching these people [51:10] just sitting down [51:11] and not working [51:11] and not doing it right [51:12] and having no planning [51:13] and no leadership. [51:15] So instead of thanking me [51:16] and saying, [51:17] Donald, [51:17] it was a great job, [51:18] he went around saying, [51:19] well, I think we could have done it [51:20] if we this, [51:21] if we that. [51:21] He was not. [51:22] So Ed Koch, who else? [51:23] I think he was just [51:24] an idiot. [51:24] What other enemy [51:24] are you proud of? [51:25] Um, I'm not proud of enemies. [51:28] I'd like to have, [51:29] you know, [51:29] I'm the kind of guy [51:30] that has great friends [51:31] and great enemies [51:32] and somehow, [51:34] but I'm not proud of any enemies. [51:35] Is your father still [51:36] the seminal influence [51:37] in your life? [51:38] Well, I have a great father. [51:39] I have a wonderful father. [51:40] He's somebody I love very much. [51:42] I wouldn't say he is, [51:43] I'd say my mother and father [51:44] maybe is a combination. [51:45] Together or? [51:46] Yeah, together, [51:46] because I have just truly together. [51:47] And what way [51:48] did they influence you differently? [51:50] Well, they're very different people. [51:51] My father's a very business-oriented guy, [51:53] but a very good man. [51:54] I mean, if somebody came up [51:55] to my father on the street [51:56] and said, [51:57] I need $100, [51:58] I need $200. [51:59] My father is the softest touch [52:01] when it comes to people [52:02] that really are in trouble. [52:03] He's really a very great humanitarian [52:05] in that sense. [52:06] But he's a strong man. [52:07] He's a, [52:08] people would think of him [52:09] as being cold, [52:10] but he's not cold at all. [52:11] My mother is openly warm. [52:12] I mean, [52:13] she's just a wonderful woman. [52:14] Except when it comes [52:14] to Mike Tyson. [52:15] Except when it came [52:16] to Mike Tyson. [52:16] It took 40 years, [52:17] and finally she came out [52:18] and she said something. [52:20] But she's a fabulous man. [52:21] She made you like yourself [52:22] when you were growing up. [52:23] I mean, by her love, [52:24] reinforced your sense of self. [52:25] She really did. [52:26] I mean, she's some woman. [52:27] Greenberg, again, [52:28] in this New York Magazine article [52:30] said about you, [52:31] he said, [52:31] if Donald gives you his word, [52:33] it's good as gold. [52:34] However, he said. [52:36] He said that sometimes [52:38] I have a bad memory. [52:39] That leaves you wide open [52:41] to, you know, [52:43] it leaves you wide open [52:44] to the fact that. [52:45] And I have a photographic memory. [52:46] That's the problem I have. [52:47] Exactly. [52:47] I mean, it raises this question, [52:49] can you trust [52:49] what Donald really says? [52:50] Because his memory [52:51] may be short. [52:52] Yeah. [52:52] Now, I think he meant [52:53] that jokingly. [52:54] He's a great friend [52:55] and he's a great gentleman. [52:56] And I think he meant that jokingly. [52:58] I think. [52:58] But perhaps he's had [53:00] some bad experiences. [53:01] I really don't know. [53:04] What brings you [53:05] the greatest satisfaction now? [53:07] Is it conquering adversity [53:08] or is it something else? [53:10] Well, I used to think [53:11] just continued success, [53:12] but I got bored by it. [53:13] Yeah. [53:13] Enough and enough [53:14] is not enough. [53:14] Enough, enough. [53:15] And then I really think [53:18] that right now [53:18] I'm just really proud [53:19] with the way [53:20] I've handled things. [53:21] I really think [53:21] that I've handled things well [53:23] from a business standpoint. [53:24] And somebody who steps forward [53:25] and says, [53:26] you know, [53:26] this is just Donald's hype. [53:27] He's a giant promoter. [53:28] He hasn't come back. [53:29] I mean, times have turned [53:30] a little bit around. [53:31] You know, [53:32] sold off some assets, [53:33] but it's not the great comeback [53:34] that he believes it is. [53:35] Well, all they have to do, [53:36] I mean, all they have to do [53:37] is look at the numbers. [53:37] I mean, you look at the numbers [53:38] in the casino journals [53:39] and you look at the numbers [53:40] and, you know, [53:41] it's been a tremendous comeback. [53:42] And I'm not saying [53:43] I'm as far back [53:43] as I will be in six months. [53:45] I mean, I'm really, [53:46] I'm back [53:47] and I'm not in any trouble [53:49] and I'm doing well [53:50] and I'm making money. [53:51] What do you think? [53:52] Money is a scorecard for me. [53:53] You know, money is not [53:54] as important as people [53:54] would think it would be [53:55] to a guy like me, [53:56] but it is a scorecard. [53:58] And, you know, [53:59] I've really done well. [53:59] So what is the most important thing [54:00] to a guy like you? [54:01] I think the way I've survived, [54:03] the quality in which [54:04] I've lived under [54:05] the survival mode, [54:07] the image I've portrayed [54:08] during the survival period. [54:10] I mean, people haven't seen me [54:11] go into a corner [54:12] and put my thumb in my mouth [54:13] and say, [54:13] I give up, I give up. [54:14] I mean, this kid doesn't give up. [54:16] And some people did give up, [54:18] I have to tell you, Charlie. [54:19] And, you know, [54:19] you're not going to be [54:20] doing interviews with them. [54:21] But some people did give up. [54:22] Many people gave up [54:23] and many tough, smart killers gave up. [54:26] They just gave up. [54:27] They said, [54:27] I can't do it anymore. [54:28] So I think the way [54:30] in which I survived [54:31] was very important to me. [54:33] Art of the Comeback, [54:33] soon to be out. [54:34] And what, [54:34] you're going to be out [54:35] in the beginning of 1909? [54:37] Three or four months. [54:37] You're writing this alone? [54:39] I'm doing this one alone [54:39] because I really want [54:40] to get my flavor. [54:41] I've had two wonderful writers. [54:42] My other books [54:43] were both number one bestsellers. [54:44] I'm doing this alone. [54:45] I want to get my own flavor. [54:46] It's really become [54:47] somewhat of a passion [54:48] because I think people [54:49] are going to learn a lot from it. [54:50] Good to have you. [54:51] Have a good time. [54:51] Thank you very much. [54:52] Thank you. [54:53] Donald Trump is back. [54:54] Thank you for joining us tonight. [54:55] Monday, we'll talk [54:56] with World Series hero [54:57] Dave Winfield. [54:58] Trump would like to hear that. [54:59] Also, a lot of other people [55:00] will be here. [55:01] We're taping next week [55:02] an hour with Charlie Kuralt, [55:04] one of my friends [55:05] from North Carolina. [55:06] A lot more interesting [55:07] things coming up. [55:08] See you Monday. [55:10] We'll talk a little bit more like that. [55:11] Take care.