Defense lawyer Vinluan grills Matibag over 'personal knowledge' on NBI probe — ANC

[0:00] Were you present when the NBI agents subscribed and sworn to their affidavits? [0:05] I was not there. [0:06] You were not there, still nothing. [0:08] And since you did not actually participate, it means that you do not have personal knowledge of these stages of the investigation, correct? [0:17] During that time, yes, but as I mentioned earlier, I read the investigation report. [0:22] So your knowledge of the investigation was based only on your reading? [0:26] That is absolutely correct and upon the discussion of the investigating officers. [0:30] Okay, very well. Now, were you present at the November 23, 2024 press con? [0:35] I was not present. I was not participating on that. [0:40] And if you know, was any NBI agent present at the November 23, 2024 press con? [0:47] Not that I know. [0:48] None. All right. [0:49] So in layman's terms, for the benefit of this Honorable Court and the Filipino people watching, [0:54] and I'll phrase my question in Tagalog. [0:57] So sa kabila po ng pagtistigo po ninyo ngayong araw, [1:00] inaamin nyo ba na wala kayong personal na kaalaman sa nangyaring investigation starting November 23, 2024? [1:07] Malinaw naman po yun. At ang Korte po, I can take judicial notice of the fact na hindi pa po ako NBI director ng panahon na yun. [1:14] So you're confirming that you do not have personal knowledge because you were only appointed as NBI director a year later or on February 20, 2026, correct? [1:23] The runner asked and answered question. [1:25] I haven't even asked that question, Ron. [1:27] Kindly let counsel finish. [1:30] So again, I will repeat. So the reason for this is that because you became NBI director only a year later or on February 20, 2026, correct? [1:42] Tama po. [1:43] All right. Okay. So prior to February 20, 2026, you do not have any personal knowledge of any investigation, correct? [1:52] Nababasa ko lang po sa balita mga pangyayari. [1:55] Which is that personal knowledge, correct? [1:57] Well, yun lang po yung knowledge natin. [1:59] You're a lawyer, correct? [2:01] Tama po. 29 years. [2:04] 29 years. Can you recall rule 130 section 22 of the rules of evidence? [2:08] Can you refresh me, sir? [2:10] Okay. I will gladly refresh you, of course. [2:12] I have here a copy of rule 130 section 22 of the rules of evidence. [2:18] And I'll read it. Please read with me, Director Matibag. [2:21] Testimony confined to personal knowledge. [2:24] A witness can testify only to those facts which he or she knows of his or her personal knowledge, that is, which are derived from his or her own perception. [2:36] Can you recall that rule now? [2:37] Yan po. Nababasa ko po. [2:39] Okay. You can read it. [2:40] All right. So based on this rule, will you agree with me that a witness can only testify based on his personal knowledge? [2:47] Your Honor, may I comment to that? [2:49] These are basic questions, Your Honor. The witness is a lawyer. He is competent enough to answer. [2:53] Counselor, are you making an objection? [2:55] This is a comment, Your Honor. [2:57] The witness repeatedly testified that he was appointed only in February 2026 and that all his testimonies pertaining to the first investigation are based on records, Your Honor. [3:12] And this is allowed. As a matter of fact, under the rules, entries in official records are considered as prima facie evidence of the contents thereof. And that's exactly the basis of the witness in answering the question of the defense. [3:30] All his knowledge pertaining to the first investigation are based on records. [3:37] Short rejoinder, Your Honor. [3:38] No need counsel. Distinguished lead prosecutor, the counsel for respondent did not object to the line of questioning of the lead prosecutor earlier based exactly on the ground cited by the lead prosecutor. [3:53] The presiding officer will give sufficient leeway to the counsel for respondent to establish his point. I think you also see what he is trying to establish. That's why he made a continuing objection in relation to it. [4:06] I'll give you some leeway counsel, but go to your next topic as soon as you're done with this. [4:12] Thank you, Your Honor. So, again, based on this rule, a witness can only testify based on his personal knowledge, correct? [4:18] Tama po, pero mayroon pong mga exception sa rule nyan. [4:21] Alright, okay. If not based on personal knowledge, then that is hearsay, correct? [4:25] But it's not an absolute rule po dahil may exceptions nga po. [4:28] Okay, now, I'm trying to look for the Filipino term for hearsay. Ano ba yung hearsay sa Tagalog? Sabi-sabi or chismis? Is that a fair translation? What is a fair translation to you of hearsay? [4:43] Your Honor, the question of the defense is misleading. He never testified that that is hearsay. As a matter of fact, he's trying to raise the exception to hearsay. [4:52] You know, I'm not asking about the exceptions of hearsay. I'm asking the translation of hearsay. Anyway, I'll move on to... [5:00] If the witness knows, if he does not know, he may say so. [5:04] Hindi ko po alam kung anong translation dito sa Tagalog. [5:08] Okay, so I'll just use my own translation, chismis. Anyway, at any rate, kung wala kang personal knowledge, chismis lang yun, tama? [5:15] Hindi ko naman po naririnig sa Korte. Ako yung nag-practice din, kahit niya taranasis sa Tagalog, kahit ninsan ko po, hindi ko po narinig ng hearsay ginamit ang salitang chismis. [5:25] Alright, I'll move on. Now, the main material that the NBI used in its investigation was the video of the November 23, 2024 press con, correct? [5:37] Tama po. [5:39] Did you watch that whole video yourself? [5:41] Napanood ko po. [5:42] The whole video. [5:43] Well, yung pong importanteng bagay diyan ang aking tinutukan, pero napanood ko po. [5:47] Alright. Now, let me ask you, do you confirm that in that virtual press con, VP Sara spoke about a lot of topics? [5:56] Tama po. [5:59] Alright, I'll show you a portion of that video, and then I'll ask questions thereafter. [6:04] Now, Your Honor, we beg the indulgence of this Honorable Court. Again, this video is a little lengthy, but we will only show one video, Your Honor. [6:12] Um, counsel may proceed. [6:15] John, how's the representative? [6:23] I love, kahaling wine. [6:32] Yung taong bayan na pinaprinamisan ninyo, 20 pesos rice. Taong bayan na hindi ninyo pinupuntahan sa mga bumalidad nila. Anong sabi nila? [6:56] Ganyan, yung bayan natin, okay na lang kami sa asin. [7:07] Kaya kayo, kung pa'y naka-hanap bayan, because of their hopelessness, because there is no functioning, okay na lang sa asin. [7:24] Abugado si Tony Lopez eh. Kasi alam niya kung ano sasabihin niya doon sa mga po. [7:49] Your Honor, it appears that we're having technical difficulties. Can we just replay that part, Your Honor? [8:03] Your Honor, may I make a manifestation first? [8:05] Can you, can the tech kindly pause and rewind a bit with respect to the portion, just a bit? [8:13] Your Honor, this is part of the question, Your Honor. Can we ask that the manifestation be made after the playing of this video and the asking of the appropriate question? [8:22] Your Honor, the manifestation concerns the very video that they are presenting. [8:26] We're already playing it, Lead Council. We will recognize you after the video is played. Kindly proceed with the playing of the video. [8:34] Telephone. Anak, phone. Princess, you're raising your hand. [8:58] Naririnig po ba ako, Princess Maui? [9:09] Thank you. Good morning po, Madam Vice President. [9:17] Thank you so much nga po pala sa dala niyong hopia nung hearing. [9:21] Anak, pumunta kayo for PRRD. [9:23] Kami yung nasa likod niyo po, yung inawag yunang bastos kasi po malakta kami because of Congresswoman Cardema. [9:31] Thank you, ma'am nakakaan kami. Apo po ay natatakot kumain ng pagkain ng pama ngayon. [9:36] Ma'am mag-iingat po kayo na sa teretoryo kayo ng kalapan. [9:40] Kasi sila naman takta eh. Sila talaga yung bastos eh. [9:44] You read what you thought. [9:47] Mag-iingat po kayo kasi sa dinami-rami po ng inyong mga pasabod ngayong gabi, [9:55] It seems like umami po talaga kayong alam about them, no? [9:59] Dahil sa pagkakasamayin sa kanila during the campaign and during the 2020 elections. [10:05] Baka pumamaya kasi totoo yung mga naririnig namin. [10:08] Or yung, I don't know if it's true, na meron daw siyang Operation Romanovs. [10:12] And pakabala kayong upusin ang inyong pamilya dahil hadlang kayo sa kanilang mga bala in the future. [10:19] So iingat po kayo. [10:21] Kami po kasi na kami ng EDSA Friday through. [10:24] Kaming bumaba pa every Friday dyan sa EDSA because we believe yan yung tamang venue. [10:30] Sa dinami-rami na ng problema natin. [10:32] Ang kaya lang naman po namin gawin ay manawagan na bumaba na yan. [10:38] Eh ano po kanyang remedy naman? [10:40] Ninyo mga nasa posisyon o ng mga kayang labanan itong napakarami na pong ginagawang [10:47] corruption at krimen laban sa taong bayan. [10:50] Ano po ang pwede niyong maging remedy para matapos na ito? [10:53] Lalo't nagsisigaw na po ang taong bayan na mag people power. [10:57] Yes. [10:59] Huwag kang mag-alala ma, sa security ko. [11:04] Kasi may kinausap na ako na tao. [11:06] Ito sa kanya. [11:08] Pag pinatay ako, patayin mo sa BBM. [11:11] Si Lisa Caraneta at si Martin Romales. [11:14] No joke. [11:15] No joke. [11:18] Nagbilin na ako, ma'am. [11:20] Pag namatay ako, sabi ko, huwag ka tumigila. [11:24] Kung hindi mo magpatay sila. [11:26] Ang ganyan, he said yes. [11:30] So, alam mo ma'am. [11:37] Yan ang lagi itong sinasabi sa makabayan. [11:40] Ang laban wala dyan sa examam. [11:45] Wala dyan sa mga highway. [11:50] Ang laban ma'am nandun sa loob ng palasyo. [11:53] Yan ang problema. [11:54] We appreciate yung expression ninyo ng misgust. [12:05] Ng magkamugi. [12:10] Ng hopelessness. [12:16] Kasi it reflects kung ano yung nararamdaman. [12:21] Nang marami. [12:25] Milyon. [12:26] Milyon. [12:27] Milyon. [12:28] Alam ko yan, ma'am. [12:29] Kasi kahit saan ako pumunta. [12:31] Ako ang binoto namin yan dahil sinabi mo ang voto namin. [12:35] So, yes. [12:42] Ma'am. [12:43] Maraming salamat sa ginagawa ninyo. [12:47] Dahil sa ginagawa ninyo, I'm sure nakikita yan. [12:50] Ang taong ba yan. [12:52] Ina-appreciate nila yan. [12:54] Marami sa ating mga kababayan ang gusto sumali sa inyo. [12:59] Pero sa sobrang hirap ng buhay ngayon, [13:03] hindi nila maiwanan yung mga trabaho nila at hanap buhay nila [13:07] para pumunta sa daan. [13:09] Bakit sila nagihirap? [13:12] Bakit? [13:14] Dahil sa gobyerno. [13:18] Hindi ba dapat yung gobyerno natin ang nagpapagaan ng buhay ng tao? [13:24] Bakit ang gobyerno natin ang nagpapahirap lalo sa tao? [13:29] Kasi gusto ba nila lagi na lang pahirap ang mga tao [13:37] para madaling mapasunod? [13:39] May mga lugar kami sa Mindanao na ganyan ang mga politiko. [13:46] Gusto nila pahirap lahat. [13:49] E bahugan lang nila ang kwarta. [13:53] Governor na sila, mayor na sila, congressman na sila. [13:59] Hanapin nyo, ma'am, yung mga lugar na sobrang hirap sa Mindanao. [14:07] Tingnan nyo anong gawain ng politiko. [14:12] Pinapakain lang ng berang ng tao. [14:14] Pinabastus yung kanilang pagkatao dahil wala silang pakialam. [14:24] All right. [14:25] For the benefit of this court, that is timestamp 1-1-1243 onwards of the video recording with accompanying transcript. [14:34] With the permission of the council correspondent, the lead prosecutor is recognized for her manifestation. [14:40] Your Honor, I wish to manifest that the video which was played is a marked and spliced video, Your Honor. [14:49] That is for the record. [14:50] The council for the respondent just mentioned the timestamp and the marking as well. [14:56] Council for the respondent may proceed. [14:57] All right. [14:58] Now, Director Matibag, these are my questions about the statements of VP Sara in that video. [15:05] Do you have personal knowledge of the theft incident involving Attorney Lopez's cell phone? [15:12] Wala po. [15:13] Do you have personal knowledge on the buffet in the House of Representatives? [15:17] Wala po. [15:18] Do you have personal knowledge on the communities na asin lang ang kinakain? [15:22] Wala po. [15:24] Do you have personal knowledge on the person whom VP Sara talked to regarding BBM, FL, and the former speaker? [15:30] Wala po dahil siya nakipag-usap. [15:32] All right. [15:33] Okay. [15:35] Thank you for that. [15:36] So, now, you mentioned that you watched the whole video. [15:43] My question to you is, did the NBI conduct any separate investigation regarding the various acts of corruption of alleged acts of corruption of BBM, FL, the former speaker, and the congressman as mentioned by VP Sara? [16:01] Marami po ang iniulan sa akin na mag-investigasyon. Subalit, hindi naman po kasi binanggit doon sa video sino ang mga particular na kailangang investigahan. [16:10] Kaya naman po yung investigasyon na ginagawa ngayon ng NBI maaring tumutukoy na po sa mga taong binabanggit po. [16:18] All right. [16:19] But as NBI director now, you have the authority to investigate alleged cases of corruption, correct? [16:25] Tama po yun. [16:27] In fact, you came out in the news recently stating that you will investigate the 2019 Sea Games, correct? [16:33] Tama po. [16:34] Correct. [16:35] Okay. [16:36] Do you intend, my next question is this, do you also intend to investigate the alleged corruption involving the unaudited confidential funds of the OP, Office of the President, also mentioned by VP Sara? [16:57] Kung meron po mga ebidensyang ilalatag sa amin para amin pong sundan, eh hindi po magdadalawang isip ang NBI sapagkat ito po ang mandato ng NBI. [17:07] All right. [17:08] Thank you for that. [17:09] Imbistiga ng mga krimen po, amin pong nakikita. [17:10] All right. [17:11] Thank you for that answer. [17:12] Now, do you also intend to investigate the alleged corruption involving the former speaker going around the country and giving government funds to people, also mentioned by VP Sara in that video? [17:27] Your Honor, may I comment, Your Honor? [17:31] What is the comment of the lead prosecutor? [17:34] We are objecting to that question, Your Honor, as the same is misleading. [17:38] Your Honor, if he knows, he said he watched the whole video, he listened to the statements, there was a statement there. [17:44] Witness may answer, if he knows. [17:46] Well, kung meron po mga ebidensyang pumapasok tulad ng lahat ng amin ginagawa, we are driven by evidence and the process and the law na dapat pong sundin. [17:56] Thank you. [17:58] ...