DEBATE: Hasan Piker vs Charlie Kirk, Politicon 2018

[0:00] You're about to watch Uno Mas, Charlie Kirk, the right-winger on college campuses, [0:04] taking on Hassan Piker from the Young Turks. They're doing it one more time at Politicon. [0:10] So if you want to support the Young Turks, home of progressives, join today at tyt.com. [0:17] All right. Well, my name is Stephen Olicar. I'm the founder of Millennial Action Project. We're a [0:22] nonpartisan organization working with young lawmakers across the country. And I'm honored [0:27] to be here at Politicon for the fourth time, and I'm honored to be moderating this debate. [0:32] Now, how many of you came to the debate between Charlie Kirk and Hassan Piker last year? [0:39] Okay. Now, out of everyone here, who's ready for round two? So this debate is going to be about [0:51] whether young people should be progressives, conservatives, or perhaps something else. [0:57] And we're going to hopefully come to some resolution at the end of this. [1:00] So with that, I want you to give a huge Politicon round of applause, make some noise for Charlie [1:09] Kirk of Turning Point USA, and Hassan Piker of the Young Turks. [1:27] Oh, I love Politicon. [1:30] Like Twitter in real life. [1:31] Yeah, exactly. [1:32] I barely fit in this chair. [1:35] Okay. [1:35] All right. So, okay. Did you guys have fun last year? [1:40] I had fun. [1:41] Did you have fun? [1:41] Yeah, no, it was a lot of fun, yeah. [1:42] So clearly, people were entertained because they wanted us back. And so here we are, and [1:48] we're going to discuss young people in America, especially given how this millennial demographic [1:54] is increasingly a major force in American politics. And so what I want to start with is just some [2:00] opening thoughts from both of our panelists here on some of the major issues facing young [2:05] people, and then we're going to dig deeper into some of those issues. So I'll start with [2:10] Charlie first. Charlie, tell us from your perspective, what you see as some of the biggest issues [2:15] facing young people today. And then as part of that, why you think young people should [2:21] be conservatives? [2:21] Well, I'd say the biggest issue facing our generation is there's been a bipartisan agreement [2:26] to continue to spend money we don't have, grow government at the expense of our generation, [2:32] concentrate power around Washington, D.C. to benefit the wealthy few and the well-connected. [2:36] And this shouldn't necessarily be a partisan issue, but it does. It becomes. And as we [2:43] conservatives believe, we believe the bigger the government, the smaller the citizen. As [2:46] we send more money to Washington, D.C., the IRS gets more powerful, the government bureaucracies [2:51] get more powerful, and our freedom decreases with that. As we've seen in the last 18 months, [2:56] what happens when you start to cut taxes and deregulate the economy? The lowest ever black [3:00] unemployment rate, the lowest ever Hispanic unemployment rate, the highest ever median income [3:04] amongst the Hispanic community. Economic confidence at an all-time high, 4.2% GDP rate, 3.7% unemployment [3:11] rate. This economy is so great, Obama's trying to take credit for it. And you can start to [3:20] see the beginning stages of what happens when you embrace conservative principles and conservative [3:25] ideas, juxtapose that with the last eight years, which was mediocrity and apologizing for [3:30] being American. And it's great that we have a president that believes in the free market, [3:35] free enterprise system. And I look forward to this discussion with Hassan as it's always [3:39] lively and never disappoints. [3:42] All right. So Hassan, you can respond to some of those points if you want to, but also tell [3:47] us what you see as some of the big issues facing young people today. And from your perspective, [3:52] why you think young people should be progressive? [3:54] I think I'm going to take an apolitical approach as well to this conversation because I like to [4:00] look at issues and identify what they are and provide what kind of solutions I think are the [4:07] best possible ones. Currently, the economic system that we're living under is inherently [4:12] exploitative, it's inherently oppressive, and we're now actually feeling the devastating impact [4:19] of that more than ever. We live in a country where there are 40 million Americans. We live [4:23] in the wealthiest nation that has ever existed, the wealthiest nation on the planet, and we [4:29] have 40 million Americans living in poverty. We have 18.5 million Americans living in extreme [4:34] poverty, according to the latest U.N. reports. Climate change is happening no matter how hard [4:40] people try to deny its existence. And its outcomes are devastating, especially for millennials, and [4:48] this is something that we need to focus on. And unfortunately, every single time we tried to bring [4:54] about any sort of socialized solutions to these problems that the free market obviously fails [4:59] to provide solutions for, we get called socialist, and that that idea is inherently damaging. [5:06] We live under an inherently oppressive capitalist dogma, and I'm here to talk about that because [5:11] I think that at least questioning that and striving to find a better system is exactly what young [5:17] people should be doing right now. Right. So inherently oppressive. So small business owners are [5:24] oppressing their employees. Come on, you're hyper-focusing on small business, dog. I'm talking [5:29] about capitalism versus socialism. Even though 85 percent of all jobs in this country are created [5:33] by small businesses, even though under this president, poverty rates have gone to the lowest [5:37] level in the last 65 years. Do you want to ask questions? Wait, hold on, hold on, hold on. Let me finish. [5:42] I let you finish, right? Okay, go ahead. Let me finish. 3.9 million Americans have gone off food stamps [5:47] and into the labor force under this president. That should be applauded by everybody. [5:50] But when less people have to go to government for money and for meaning, and they instead [5:56] are able to go to a job and have a paycheck, that's a good thing. And so the final thing [6:01] I'll say is this, and you'll find disagreement. Just because someone gets rich does not mean [6:05] someone gets poor. In order for you to get rich in a free market system, you must have [6:09] a good idea. You must create value. You must employ people. You probably borrowed money, and [6:14] you have an 80 percent chance of that business not succeeding. In a free market, yes, we applaud [6:18] success, but you must take responsibility for failure. And you have seen the last 100 years [6:23] the standard of living increase for all people across the world. Things get better, prices [6:27] go down, and we are able to enjoy the abundance that only a free market system can create. [6:32] You know what? I don't have to call you guys socialist. Bernie Sanders calls himself a socialist. [6:36] Yeah. And we should reject socialism. Yeah, no, we should. Yeah. [6:39] It's very nice of you to immediately launch this accusation that I don't care for small businesses, [6:48] businesses, or small businesses will never exist under a social democracy, kind of similar [6:53] to small businesses in Nordic countries, and with robust economies, but with also a powerful [6:59] and protective social welfare programs and socialized safety nets. This exists everywhere [7:09] around the world. All of the comparable Western democratic nations have been able to institute socialist [7:17] principles, and that's precisely why their people are a lot happier. But then on top of that, [7:23] on top of that, what's really important to me is, like, focusing on the rate of growth and the GDP is [7:29] great, but you can't answer me, you can't answer this one simple question. Who cares what our GDP is [7:36] if the person who is dying of abject poverty can't heal himself because we don't have a socialized [7:44] medicine, for example? So if you want to talk about healthcare solutions, happy to talk about it. [7:47] You brought up Norway, Sweden, Finland. You would call those socialist countries. [7:51] No, I wouldn't call them socialist countries, but they're definitely on a scale. Yeah, [7:54] I said they're social democracies, which would be a more socialist country. Look, [7:58] if we're going to have this conversation, let's frame it. I asked a very simple question. [8:01] No, we'll have a consensus on this first. Let me ask you a question, okay? Because this is, [8:05] like, really improper framing, and a lot of people confuse socialism. [8:08] You said inherently exploitative. You framed the argument. [8:11] Oh, with capitalism. Yeah, I did. [8:12] Okay, so that's, and I rebutted that. How did you rebut that? By talking about just because [8:17] no, by talking about, like, what, small businesses? It doesn't matter. Every single [8:21] business still. Hassan, let me say one thing. Norway, Sweden, and Finland, according to the [8:25] World Economic Freedom Index, are ranked higher than the United States of America. That is not [8:29] socialist. They have less tax, they have lower taxes. So that means that you can have socialism [8:34] and yet still have successful businesses in your country. Thank you for proving my point for me. [8:39] I love this. It's the exact opposite. You know what socialist is? Bernie Sanders wants an 80% [8:44] tax rate on the rich. Yeah, Venezuela too, right? Dude, listen, listen. Bernie Sanders wants to keep [8:48] our fossil fuel assets in the ground. Do you want me to explain it to you? Because you obviously [8:51] don't understand it. Do you want me to explain it to you? Wait, is Cuba not socialist? Is North [8:54] Korea not socialist? Was Vietnam not socialist? Was Zimbabwe not socialist? You can laugh all you [8:59] want. Okay, do you want me to explain it to you? But 100 million people died under socialism the [9:02] last 100 years, and you have the gumption to continue. Okay, okay, okay. You can keep laughing to the [9:08] victims' families from Cuba, from Venezuela, from Korea, from Vietnam, from Mao's China, [9:13] from Stalin's Russia. The number one killer of citizens from innocent civilians the last 100 [9:17] years has been the very idea that you shamelessly wear on your sleeve every single day. Marxism has [9:22] killed more people than any other ideology over the last 100 years. Okay, thank you for those words. [9:28] You're welcome. When 100 million people die under a communist dictatorship, and some of those [9:34] millions are also Nazis, which is included there, whatever, you blame communism. The National [9:37] Socialist Workers' Party. Or you blame, or you blame, you blame socialism. But when 7 million [9:43] people die every year under our current global capitalist environment, where, just, just by famine [9:48] alone, before we even talk about imperialism, and before we even talk about the damaging wars that are [9:52] happening all around the world, then it's the individual. So you're essentially telling every single [9:57] person that's poor, it's your fault that you're poor, it's your fault that you die under a capitalist [10:01] system. But if you were under a communist system... I have never said that. I mean, that's literally [10:05] what you're saying. No, it's not. I'm saying that... So whose fault is it? Whose fault is it that 7 [10:09] million people every year die just by famine-related diseases and famine under our current global [10:16] capitalist structure? Whose individual fault is it? Yeah. Why is it with the system when it comes to [10:21] communism, but it's actually... In the last 100 years, you have seen the standard of living go from 40 years to 80 [10:26] years in America for women and 76 years for women. You're not answering my question. Global poverty is at its all-time low [10:30] than it ever has been. It's dropped below 10% as the free enterprise. You're not answering my question. [10:34] You're not answering... You're talking about something completely different. There is not a singular [10:36] person why individuals might die, unfortunately. However, what's going to stop that? Oh, it's [10:40] unfortunate when they die. Oh, yes. Yes, Hassan. Death is unfortunate. Yeah, I know. I understand. [10:45] But you make it seem as though they are just a statistic. How do you solve these problems? So let's talk [10:49] about healthcare in particular. Okay. Because a common critique of conservatives is that we do not have [10:53] a plan for healthcare. It's quite simple. First of all, the idea that we do not have socialized medicine or a test case [10:59] for it in the States is incorrect. The Veterans Administration... [11:01] Did you say the Veterans? Oh, God. [11:02] Oh, that's terrible. $180 billion a year we spend trying to help our veterans. [11:07] Hassan, let me finish. $180 billion a year we spend trying to help our veterans, and they wait in line. [11:13] They die in the clinics. The quality care is unbelievably low. You cannot say that the Veterans [11:17] Administration is a well-run government agency despite us spending $180 billion a year trying [11:23] to help our veterans. How disgusting that you would send these young men and women overseas [11:31] to go fight imperial... Not you. I'm talking about conservatives in general. Just conservatives in [11:37] general don't mind sending these young men and women overseas to fight imperialist conquests that [11:42] have nothing to do with protecting America or protecting American sovereignty. Hold on. That's [11:46] great. That's great. That's just one war, though. We are waging many currently. But then they come back, [11:51] and the numbers have obviously increased. The number of casualties have increased. The treatment [11:57] is drastically different than a regular pool of American citizens who aren't in the line of fire. [12:02] How could you then turn around, not fund that system that we promised those veterans we would [12:07] take care of them, not fund that system, and then use it as a talking point to say socialized [12:12] medicine does not work? That is disgusting. We should take care of our vets. You know what's [12:16] disgusting, Hassan? The fact that you defend that system. The fact that vets die waiting [12:21] for care. Our vets are our heroes. First of all, I'm against the Afghanistan war, against [12:25] the Iraq war, against our funding of Saudi Arabia's illegal war in Yemen. I'm against [12:29] the missile strikes in Syria. So don't try to paint me in the same blend and the same [12:33] brush that all neoconservatives are. Second of all, ironically, Donald Trump is making [12:37] the world a safer place. The Korean war is ending thanks to Donald Trump. ISIS is on the [12:43] run and being destroyed. What does this have to do with us lying to our veterans that we were [12:48] going to take care of them and then letting them be homeless on the streets? The Veterans [12:53] Administration, which is socialized medicine, does a disservice. You advocate for socialized [12:58] medicine. I do not want the rest of the country to be subjugated to the same level of care that [13:03] our veterans have to go through. You're using that as a tool to just attack socialism. [13:07] A piece of evidence. It's called evidence, Hassan. This works in every other country that [13:12] has tried to do this. This works. This system absolutely works. Cuba? How does the Cuban health [13:16] care system work? The Cuban health? Cuban health care system. The Cuban health care system? Oh, [13:20] you mean the country where they're on the verge of solving AIDS and a multitude of different [13:25] cancer research? Like, what are you talking about? Where their life expectancy is 15 years? [13:30] Less than the United States? Where they have widespread starvation? Where they lock up [13:34] political dissidents? Why do people flee Havana, Cuba for Miami, Florida? I don't know. Maybe [13:38] our sanctions have something to do with it? For Havana, Cuba. Okay, I'm going to step in here. Maybe it's [13:42] because people did not want to willingly give away their land. But I'm not here defending Cuba. I [13:46] don't give a shit about Cuba, dog. I'm talking about America. You just said they're solving [13:50] AIDS, which is categorically false. I'm talking about comparable nations. We are talking about [13:54] socialized medicine in comparable nations. Are you going to say that America and Cuba are [13:57] virtually identical? I would happen to, I would happen to, I think that Canada is a better example, [14:02] and there are definitely problems within the Canadian health care system, again, due to privatization [14:07] and due to underfunding and crippling the institution from within because of privatized [14:14] policies. This is all, private enterprise is grossly responsible for the lack of affordable [14:21] health care in this country. It shouldn't even be affordable. It should be free. This is what [14:25] the people want, Charlie. Nothing is free, Hassan. [14:26] 82% of Americans, 82% of Americans want Medicare for All. 52% of Republicans want Medicare for All. [14:34] The only people at this point, the only people who are standing firmly against Medicare for All [14:39] are just essentially saying, look, I don't care. I love corporate lobbyists. I think big pharma should, [14:43] should continue to increase their profits. And it doesn't matter if you can't live a dignified life [14:49] without the crippling fear that if you lose your job, you might lose your health care and you might [14:54] literally die. And if you can't fund your, fund your medicine, if you can't fund your health care, [14:58] then you should beg on the internet through crowdsourcing. Again, Hassan, you are virtue signaling [15:03] constantly because you are implying, you are implying that just because I have a different [15:06] policy perspective that I care less about these people. I mean, the free market system, [15:11] if you're against it, that's what you want. So in every single sector and vertical, [15:15] allow me to finish, whether it be in housing, whether it be in food, whether it be in anywhere [15:19] the free market is allowed to interact, which we do not have a free market system in healthcare right [15:22] now. You cannot buy health insurance across state lines. We have a national quota for doctors. [15:26] We have the FDA that disallows entrepreneurs to compete against big pharma [15:30] by having patents for 30 years, so that people with great ideas. [15:33] Do you think FDA regulation is bad when it comes to medicine? There are certain elements [15:36] of regulation that is bad, but I want you to be very specific. No, you can't just throw eight [15:40] points. Let me finish. How about a 30-year patent on a drug that disallows someone with a better idea [15:45] that would bring down the price of the drug so that the middle class could have the same sort [15:48] of treatment that the rich and powerful have? That's the regulation that you think I'm against? [15:53] No, I'm not saying you're against it. I'm saying what I'm for, Hassan. I hope you're for that. [15:56] No, I think we should. Look. [15:57] Again, let me finish. All right, go ahead. Sorry. Sorry. You're right. [16:00] The free market allows itself to three really, really big things. It allows prices to go down, [16:04] quality to go up, and abundance to go outward. Everywhere it's tried, whether it be grocery [16:08] stores, whether it be housing. The laws of the market do not stop working just because it's in [16:13] healthcare. Whether it be LASIK eye surgery. LASIK eye surgery used to cost $20,000 per eye. [16:18] Yeah, technological advancements that are inevitable make it easier and more affordable. [16:23] The insurance companies would not cover the LASIK eye surgery. No, this is ridiculous. [16:26] It was a cash business. Doctors went outside of the traditional system, and all of a sudden [16:30] now it costs $500 per eye for LASIK eye surgery. Everything you're saying is flat out false. [16:34] What's false about that? Because we live under a mixed economy, [16:37] Charlie, so it's a consequence of both publicly funded research and also certain private elements. [16:43] So when you try to turn around and look at technological advancements [16:46] that are happening in virtually every field, okay? Virtually every field, [16:50] on an international scale, and assume that this is just a consequence of free market capitalism, [16:54] well, let's talk, yeah, no, it's actually unicorns, dude. Unicorns are giving us magically the- [16:59] Hassan, ask me a question. If we're going to lie about this stuff, [17:01] then we might as well just go all the way out. Let me ask you a question. [17:04] Does insurance cover LASIK? Does insurance cover LASIK? [17:06] Does insurance cover LASIK? Does insurance cover LASIK? [17:07] What does that have to do with anything? Because when you don't have the insurance [17:10] lobby within the negotiating of prices, then the consumer knows exactly what everything costs. [17:14] The reason why healthcare costs so much in this country, you go into a hospital, [17:18] no one knows what anything costs. No one knows what anything costs for how long you stay there, [17:23] for how long the procedure is. A key component of a market is pricing. [17:28] The problem with the system we have now- Yeah, and we live in a country [17:30] that is virtually the only country on the planet that does not negotiate drug prices. [17:35] Even Donald Trump said he was going to do this, and he's failed to deliver on that promise, [17:39] among many other promises, like he was going to solve the economy, [17:42] or that he was going to bring about world peace. This is preposterous to assume that insurance, [17:49] you could just unjustifiably just throw out a claim without expecting me to refute it. [17:56] When you make this ridiculous assertion that insurance companies are actually decreasing prices, [18:04] when it's not the government who should be regulating it. No, they're not. [18:06] Hassan, I asked a very specific question. What? [18:09] LASIK eye surgery not covered by insurance. Okay. Consumers went straight to the doctor, [18:13] so they knew how much it cost, therefore prices went down, quality went up, and accessibility went [18:18] outward. That's what happens when a market is allowed to exist. Hold on. So why is it virtually every [18:23] other, because I, look, I don't know the ins and outs of the, the complicated LASIK surgery, [18:27] and I'm willing to bet that you don't either. You just know a talking point about it, but it doesn't [18:31] matter. Look, um, look, none of this matters because you are hyper focusing on LASIK surgery. [18:37] Are all Americans, is this the most important problem that all Americans have to face when [18:41] it comes to our current obesity rate? I'm really glad you asked. [18:43] When it comes to the cancer rate in the U.S., which is good, we're good on cancer, if you can afford it. [18:47] So how do you get things to cost less? Competition, which is inherent in a free market. [18:51] Regulation. Regulation rises prices. Regulation prices out middle-class consumers. Regulation is [18:58] a tool used by corporations to go, go after small business owners. That is why the biggest [19:03] corporation- Oh, the small business owners like Pfizer. You're right, dude. Come on, dude. [19:07] Pfizer has a $100 million a year government lobbying budget. That is not right. Yeah, I hate that. We [19:13] agree on that. That is corporatism. That is not capitalism. It's different when you have a good idea [19:17] versus buying lobbyists, sending them to D.C., saying, put all these rules and regulations [19:21] that I can afford, but the entrepreneur from Silicon Valley that has a five-person company [19:26] cannot afford $20 million in regulation. So why is it cheaper in other countries, [19:28] Charlie? Explain that to me. If it's not government price negotiations, why is it cheaper in virtually [19:33] every other country? As a matter of fact, this is a ridiculous talking point because like [19:37] conservatives have, for the most part, maybe not Charlie, but I am willing to hear your perspective [19:41] on this. Conservatives for the most part have like completely decided that the whole regulation [19:47] conversation is ridiculous and have gone so far as to say that we are subsidizing healthcare for [19:51] the rest of the world because we are the most innovative nation when it comes to medicine. It's [19:56] preposterous. Every other nation is able to do this and these companies are still selling to them. [20:02] Obviously, they're not selling out of the goodness of their heart because there's no such thing. [20:06] It's all profit motive, right? So they're capable of lowering drug prices here in the United States [20:11] as well. But the only reason why they won't, and you're correct on this, I will tell you, [20:16] because obviously I'm very anti-lobby here and anti-corporatist and anti-capitalist as well, [20:21] which, by the way, lobbying is inherently a capitalist structure. You constantly talk about [20:26] how money is- Corporatist. Corporatist. There's a difference. [20:28] Okay. Corporatist and capitalist. The two go hand in hand. [20:32] Those are not the same thing. That's like saying I'm- [20:34] Crony capitalism is just unfettered capitalism. And you are constantly, [20:38] on the one hand, arguing against regulation, and then on the other hand, saying, well, [20:42] it's not true capitalism. Which one is it? Should we regulate capitalism so it doesn't [20:45] turn into crony capitalism? Or should we not- [20:46] I think we should massively deregulate the American economy. I'm not saying to abolish [20:50] every single piece of regulation. But when regulations- [20:51] What are they specifically? [20:52] Let me finish. What- [20:53] Except for like the patent one, which I'm on board with as well. [20:55] What regulation specifically? How about Dodd-Frank? That'd be a great start. [20:58] We did. [20:58] That disallows community banks from competing against Goldman Sachs, Wells Fargo, JPMorgan Chase. [21:04] The big banks wrote Dodd-Frank. That is why we've seen an 80% decrease in community banks [21:09] over the last eight years since the passage of Dodd-Frank. Because it makes it nearly impossible [21:12] for community banks to be able to compete against the Wall Street banks. I will say this though- [21:15] What Charlie fails to mention with Dodd-Frank is like- [21:17] I did not interrupt you. [21:18] No. What Charlie fails to mention with Dodd-Frank, and you can't say this and not mention this part, [21:23] there are plenty of fail-safes within Dodd-Frank, which was imperfect, I will admit. [21:28] There are plenty of fail-safes that were also taken away. For example, [21:30] the fiduciary responsibility. So if you're an old person and you go up to a bank, [21:35] that your banker can virtually make any sort of risky financial decision they want to now, [21:41] because they took that away so that the bankers could make more money off of your money that [21:45] they're playing around with. This is the kind of deregulation that already caused the 2008 housing [21:50] All right. I'm not going to get into- [21:51] No. Oh, you're not going to get into the specifics when I know what the [21:54] you're talking about? [21:55] Federal Reserve lowing interest rates. Hold on. What's Fannie and Freddie, genius? [21:59] What's Fannie and Freddie? Tell me what that is. Tell me about the rating agencies. Tell me about [22:03] how we should have allowed Wells Fargo to pay a price and those people should be in prison right [22:07] now for doing what they did and lying to federal regulators. And it was a Democrat Congress and a [22:13] Democrat Senate and a Democrat president- Advocating the jail bankers? I'm on board, [22:17] dog. Let's do it right now. [22:18] Talking over each other for the next 45 minutes or you can let me finish. The final thing I'll say [22:22] on banking regulation, one of the biggest misrepresentations of reality is somehow that [22:27] free market capitalism contributed to the 2008 financial crisis. It was the rating agencies [22:32] in bed with Fannie and Freddie Mac doing AAA bond rating with B and B minus rated bonds. No one looked [22:38] what they were actually rating. It was the government institutions that were telling Wall Street to [22:42] continue to go after subprime mortgage lending where they did credit default swaps on top of it, [22:47] leveraging the entire American economy with Alan Greenspan artificially lowering interest rates [22:52] after 9-11, playing with cheap money. Pair that with the Community Reinvestment Act and no one [22:57] actually knowing what they're trading. All certified by Washington. [23:01] We're on the same page, but you sound a lot like a communist when you make those points. I'm just [23:05] going to let you know. When you're like, let's jail bankers. Let's regulate both our politicians and [23:12] also these corporations. You can't just sit here and say that it's the regulations. You keep [23:16] mentioning the failures of capitalism and then your solution to the failures of capitalism. [23:21] I've not, I've mentioned more capitalism, more free market failure of statism. Well, [23:25] you know, how about the failure? How about the successes of free market capitalism? [23:28] The fact that we have abundance and light air conditioning, the fact that we have more food [23:32] that we throw away every single year than we actually eat the fact that in the Western world, [23:36] that's a good thing. You think that our waste is a good thing, dude? We have an abundance [23:40] problem in the West, not a scarcity problem. In Venezuela, the average Venezuelan has lost 17 [23:46] pounds. Oh yes. 4,000% inflation. Yes. Brink on the Civil War. [23:50] Venezuela, the only socialist country on the planet, everybody. [23:54] Yes. The fact that they have 42% unemployment. Yes. The fact that Maduro continues to exploit [23:59] his citizens around the lies of Karl Marx. Yes. Is that what we're talking about, Hassan? [24:02] Yes. I love that you think you owned. Oh my God. First of all, can I just- [24:09] No, no, hold on, hold on, hold on. No, you can't just let him- [24:11] Okay, all right. I'll give you one more word. [24:12] You can't just let him throw away the Republican Despacito, which is every single [24:17] time the dirty S word is mentioned. It's like, oh, Venezuela. Dude, I get it. I get it. [24:22] You can't. No, no, no. You got to let me talk. You got to let me talk. You did your dance, [24:27] and you said Venezuela. You got it out, and I'm glad you did. I'm glad you did. It's the ultimate [24:32] defense. Like I said, Venezuela has virtually the same exact- Venezuela has socialized its [24:38] extraction industries, which is why it is extremely comparable to a Nordic country like Norway. If [24:43] socialism successfully is implemented, or at least social democracies are successfully implemented [24:49] in countries like Norway, then some countries fail because they're corrupt, or because of currency [24:54] mismanagement, or because of a variety of different reasons like the IMF or American sanctions, or even [25:00] backing military coups in the country, which Donald Trump apparently, the world leader in peace, is [25:05] toying around with, as if that has worked ever in Latin American countries or anywhere worldwide. [25:11] Like, there are a multitude of different reasons why socialism or a more robust social state has not [25:17] worked in Venezuela, but it obviously has been successful in other countries. Like Zimbabwe, [25:21] Cuba, Vietnam, North Korea, former Bulgaria, former Belarus, East Germany, Soviet Union, [25:28] those were great test cases for socialism, right? Yeah, I'm glad that you know countries. I'm glad that [25:31] you are demonstrating that despite our public education system, you are still knowledgeable [25:36] on different countries. Stop naming countries and let me finish, okay? All right. Like, so ridiculous, [25:43] dude. At this point, you guys all have to be aware that this is a ridiculous notion, right? There are [25:47] plenty of socialized countries around the planet. It's not just Venezuela. And also, [25:52] let me tell you another thing, okay? When Nordic countries want to implement social democracies or [25:58] socially democratic principles, it doesn't matter because the United States can't impose sanctions [26:03] on them, and the United States can't go and bomb them. The United States can't implement coups in [26:08] their countries. And look at that. It freaking works, dude. It works. Maybe we should stop meddling in [26:14] foreign affairs all around the world and allow these countries to do whatever they want. [26:18] Because you can virtue signal as much as you want. [26:20] I generally agree with a non-interventionalist. [26:22] Yeah. You can talk about virtue signaling. Here's what's virtue signaling. Acting like you [26:27] care about Venezuela. Acting like you care about the interests of Venezuela. [26:30] No, I do care about Venezuela. [26:31] Yeah. If you did, you wouldn't be in support of an administration that is trying to put sanctions [26:36] on Venezuela, a country that is already crippled. Like, it's a corrupt government. I'm sure there's [26:41] an authoritarian element to it. I'm not the biggest fan of Maduro either. But you can't [26:44] sit here and be like, oh, Venezuela, Venezuela, just to talk about socialism when your fellow [26:49] men and women, your fellow brothers and sisters are dying in this country, and you want to stop [26:54] socialized medicine from happening here. All right. [26:57] So again, again, so you're drawing a connection with empathy and with my policy prescription to help [27:02] people. And I would say that... [27:04] Because the free market principles have never worked in socialized medicine. Obviously, [27:07] that's the reason why we're here. Like, that's the reason why... [27:09] That's the reason why it's four times... [27:11] Can you explain to me, though, that why people did everything they could to flee East [27:15] Germany, to go to West Germany? People flee Havana, Cuba from Miami, Florida, [27:18] or they flee Venezuela for a free market system. [27:20] Why are they coming to America? Yeah. Everyone, every immigrant's like, [27:23] I'm coming to America for the free market system. Maybe the ones that you found. [27:26] Like, what are you talking about? They're also fleeing. [27:27] They're fleeing the communist dictatorships. [27:30] They're leaving violence that we largely were responsible for, like the Honduran caravan, [27:35] for example. Let me ask you a question. [27:37] Who is implementing coups in these countries, Charlie? [27:40] Hold on a second, son. [27:40] Who is funding right-wing paramilitary groups just because they're capitalists and they love [27:45] the free market? Hold on a second. [27:46] So tell me, since that's your general thesis, that the reason communism and socialism [27:51] hasn't worked because of U.S. intervention, what U.S. intervention in Zimbabwe, or what U.S. [27:54] intervention... So the distinction between South Korea... [27:57] It's not the only reason. I'm not a dummy. I don't think there's a singular reason for an entire [28:00] country to absolutely fail. Like, it's ridiculous to assume that it's because... [28:03] Let me ask you a question, though. South Korea exists today [28:05] because of U.S. intervention. North Korea lives in darkness and suffering... [28:08] It's not just because of U.S. intervention, Charlie. There are a multitude of reasons, [28:13] obviously. Yes, the fact that socialism is evil, it doesn't work. [28:15] It has misproper incentives. [28:17] All of your reasons are just socialism is bad. Like, you're literally like, [28:22] no, it's socialism is bad. No, and also that free market capitalism is the most proven, [28:25] moral and effective economic system ever discovered. Dude, it's ridiculous. [28:28] That's lifted more people out of poverty, that Western civilization is one of the greatest [28:31] experiments in human history, that the life expectancy has gone nearly double in the last 100 [28:35] years, that global poverty has... You do realize you keep repeating the same talking points, [28:38] right? Like, I understand that... I understand that technological advancements are inevitable... [28:41] It doesn't mean it's any less true just because I repeat it. Repetition is the soul of memory, [28:43] and I hope you can remember some of this stuff so you can stop being a Marxist. Yes. [28:48] I understand. I understand that across the board, due to exponential growth and also due to [28:54] technological advancements, which were created as an outcome of both publicly and privately funded [29:00] research all around the world, that we are currently in a better state. I fully understand that, [29:06] and I fully agree with that. Only one side is arguing that it is all just magical free market principles, [29:11] and just like only one side here is arguing that an entire nation is crippled because they decided to [29:18] to adopt Marxist principles when plenty of other countries have, like, are successful social [29:24] democracies, or at the very least have a robust economy and also more social spending, where [29:30] citizens are happy and they don't have to be living in fear that their bosses, if they fire them, [29:35] they're on a whim, that they'll die. Let's bring it back domestically then. Why is it the most murderous, [29:40] hopeless, and poor cities in America all run by Democrats? What? What does that have to do with me? [29:46] Yeah, okay. Yeah, they're bad. What do you want me to say? Okay, sure. Because your very policies are [29:50] put on trial in Philadelphia and Chicago and Oakland and Portland and Seattle and Milwaukee. You know, [29:54] like Rahm Emanuel, the big socialist, who said Chicago needed socialized medicine and that's why [29:59] there's gun violence. That's a dumb argument. Chicago's already entertaining universal basic [30:03] income of which you support. So you're saying they premeditatively are having a lot of violence [30:07] because they're going to implement universal basic income? Well, they also have the strictest gun laws in the country, [30:10] but you know, you're a big fan of those two. Please make a good argument one time. You can't just say... [30:15] Can you answer the question though? Why is it that the most murderous... Some of those Democrats are bad. [30:20] What do you want me to say? Or maybe the ideas are bad, Hassan, and maybe the ideas don't work. [30:24] But what are the ideas? Like, do you really... The ideas are high tax, big government. But they're not [30:28] implementing socialist principles. Limiting government freedom. Not investing, not allowing... Name one socialist [30:34] principle that Rahm Emanuel has tried to implement in Chicago, which is why... The strictest gun laws in the country. Which is why... [30:38] Let's start with that. The fact that he doesn't allow school choice. The fact that he cracks down on the [30:43] voucher system in Chicago. The fact that Chicago has the highest property taxes in the country. The [30:48] fact that Chicago just instituted an income tax. These are all, quote unquote, progressive ideas. [30:53] Chicago is more bankrupt, hopeless. Are you against all taxation? Can I just... Can we just get this out [30:56] of the way? No, I think we should have lower taxes. And thanks to Donald Trump, we have the lowest tax rate [31:00] in 60 years. Give me a number. Cause like, I always, I always, I never understand this. It's always like, [31:07] I love deregulation. I love lowering taxes. Like just making these declarative statements [31:13] might sound great because the tangible impact of it is not necessarily immediate, especially when it [31:18] comes to tax cuts. But we see the consequences 20 years, 30 years, 40 years down the line, [31:23] like the erosion of the middle class in America. These are a consequence of Ronald Reagan era tax [31:28] policies. This is crazy. All of our school, our schools are failing, Charlie. We have... [31:33] We have... Because of Democrat Alliance. Oh, come on. Yeah. Democrats like the ones in [31:38] Oklahoma, right? That's where, where many districts have four days. So you support school [31:41] choices on? By the way, Sweden has school choice. Yes, absolutely. So Sweden has school choice. [31:45] That's what I want. I don't want to desegregate the schools. I actually don't support school. Like, [31:49] we're so ridiculous. School choice is a solution that can allow poor families to go to a better [31:54] school as Democrat politicians and teacher unions that are preventing poor families from sending [31:59] their kids to better schools. I'm trying to come to a conclusion with you about obvious problems [32:05] that we have, but you are literally just regurgitating Republican talking points back at me [32:11] without necessarily listening to anything that I'm saying. Can you disprove anything I've said, [32:13] Hassan? I say, this is what's going on with our schools. Disprove one thing I've said. [32:17] And then you go, do you hate choice? What does that have to do with what I'm saying? [32:20] I asked the question, Hassan. I didn't say you hate choice. I said, are you for school choice? [32:24] Do you hate choice? School choice. Okay. Do you hate school choice? Do you support school choice? [32:29] It's ridiculous. It's a ridiculous question because you know, it's actually Florida implemented [32:33] school choice from 25th. No, I think the second ranked in education in the country, [32:38] school choice works and it helps the least. You're doing it again. I know you're literally [32:42] like a politician nonstop with saying facts, but I gave back bother you, Hassan. [32:48] Does evidence bother you? Does numbers bother you? No, no, no, no, no, no. Hold on. Charlie, [32:54] Charlie, let's get back to reality for just a brief moment. Okay. I am using numbers. [32:58] Let's leave the conservative sphere for a second and get back to reality. You make false assertions [33:04] nonstop. The fact that democratic policies are the reason why Oklahoma school system has failed [33:11] when there's literally school in certain districts, there's schools for four days. Like, what are you [33:16] talking about? It's a consequence of underfunding of these school systems. And that is inherently [33:23] anti-socialist. If liberals are doing it, then they're also anti-socialist and therefore they [33:27] are wrong as well. And that's something that I want to talk about here. Look, this is why I came in and [33:31] said, right now, the biggest problem in our country, from my perspective, is the fact that we don't look [33:37] at socialism as if it's something that could potentially help us. But because of years and years of [33:42] propaganda and also very, very talented mouthpieces like Charlie here, and I will admit, he's very [33:47] good at disseminating conservative agitprop, okay, because of that and because of the lack of, [33:55] supposedly, inside of our liberal institutions, the lack of education surrounding Marxist theory, [33:59] only at the highest levels, that people genuinely assume that socialism is a bad thing and not [34:06] necessarily something that can help us, something that can save us. These are popular policies, you guys. [34:12] You guys are advocating against your own best interests. You're advocating against your own [34:17] well-being. When you talk about free market principles, you're essentially saying, look, [34:21] it's fine if private companies can do whatever they want, because private corporations are essentially [34:26] privatizing tyranny, okay? They are unelectable, they are unaccountable, and this mythological free [34:33] market understanding hasn't saved you at all. Can you use some evidence, please? Use some evidence, [34:36] so then we can have a discussion about it. I mean, look around, dude. I already gave you- [34:39] I look around, and I see a lot of Trump supporters. Great. Go Trump. [34:42] Okay. No, that's great. I mean, what- [34:46] Your example of evidence is the fact that there are Trump supporters in the room at Politicon. [34:49] I used evidence. Very good. [34:50] Okay, so for example, evidence. Chicago has not had a Republican mayor since 1931. [34:54] Evidence. Atlanta has not had a Republican mayor- [34:56] Stop looking at this from artisan perspectives. I don't care about the Democratic Party. [34:59] Okay, but here's the point, is that your ideas have been put on referendum. [35:01] Your failure to see that I'm not, I also don't like liberals- [35:04] I allowed you to get to your diatribe. Allow me to finish. [35:06] Actually, that's the perfect transition to the next topic here. [35:09] Hey, we have a moderator. [35:12] So, a couple things here. First of all, I love these guys. [35:16] I knew you were here. [35:17] First of all, this is one of the most entertaining conversations I've seen in a long time. [35:23] Next year, we won't need a moderator. [35:25] Second of all, you guys are very talented because you've touched on nearly all of the topics I wanted [35:31] to touch on. Third, you've touched on actually what you ended on here is an interesting theme [35:38] that actually cuts across the political divide. And that is that young people across the board [35:44] are extremely skeptical of institutions. They are skeptical of both the Democratic and Republican [35:49] parties. A plurality of millennials today identify as independent. So, I want to get your take on this [35:55] because I think it has a huge impact on the policy choices we decide. And I heard from both [36:01] of you, you know, when you mentioned Democratic policies, Hassan would say that I'm not a Democrat [36:06] and I do even criticize a lot of liberal policies and vice versa. So, let me actually start with [36:12] Hassan on this. For the record, just before we even get started, I didn't say I'm not a Democrat. [36:17] I said I criticize Democrats because I'm not a partisan hack, okay? If someone's policy choices, [36:23] for example, like school voucher systems and whatnot, are inherently bad from a morality [36:28] perspective, then I don't appreciate that. I'm going to criticize it. That's all I was saying. [36:33] Right, but you said- [36:33] I don't have to defend the Democratic Party, and I certainly will not defend the Republican Party. [36:38] That's all I wanted to point out. I will still probably vote Democrat at the end of the day [36:42] because I believe in easing the burden placed upon the proletariat. And that is why I will vote [36:46] Democrat. And I'll tell people to do that as well. [36:47] So, let me ask- Did he say the proletariat? I just want to make sure I heard that. [36:53] Are you triggered by a word? Like, what do you mean? [36:57] Okay, Hassan. Proletariat. An inherently bad word, guys. It means the working class. [37:02] Oh, yeah. I got that. Just ask how that worked out in Stalinist Russia, you know, [37:06] fighting for the working class. [37:07] Where there's ever been the proletariat. No one has ever worked anywhere. [37:09] Yeah, you know, like Mao's China, or Vietnam, or Cuba, or Zimbabwe, [37:13] all the hundred other times we tried communism in the last hundred years. [37:16] That's not what I'm advocating for. Do you understand the difference between [37:20] Stalinism and Leninism and Marxist theory in general? There are different variations. [37:24] What you're doing right now is taking advantage of a lack of education surrounding leftist ideology, [37:29] and it's really disgusting. Instead, sit down and understand what the hell I'm talking about. [37:34] I don't care about state assertion of power, okay? I don't care about authoritarianism. [37:38] Obviously, I'm not an authoritarian. I don't like our current almost proto-fascist government right [37:42] now. All right. Wow. Okay. Um, can I, can I say, go ahead. [37:46] Here's something, Hassan, just so the audience can distill this. Here's, I don't trust the government. [37:51] Therefore, why make the government bigger? Hassan says he doesn't trust the government, [37:56] and he wants to make government bigger. He says, oh, the government is, this is Hassan. [37:59] The government is largely bought. Are you literally doing a, this is Hassan right now? [38:04] Do you think you sound intelligent? Can I, can I summarize what you're saying? [38:07] Okay, go ahead. We agreed that lobbyists have too much access to this government. [38:10] You want to make that government bigger, stronger, more powerful. I want to make that [38:13] government smaller and more accountable to the citizens. That's a huge difference between [38:17] conservatives and progressives. I love that, like, look, are we going to have an actual [38:21] intelligent conversation surrounding this? Because more government doesn't necessarily always mean [38:25] more bad government. It's not like I'm advocating for corruption here. Actually, as a matter of fact, [38:30] if you want to talk about corruption, let's talk about lobbying. Let's talk about lobbying. Let's [38:33] talk about how money is speech, like how we fund politicians. Let's talk about the fact that [38:38] politicians spend 70% of their time raising funds for their next campaign. I don't like that system. [38:44] I advocate against you. Do you, so you don't want, you want to reform campaign finance laws and give [38:49] me specific examples of how you want to do that? Because I don't think Foster Fries, who's one of [38:53] your donors, is going to be very happy when he finds out you're talking out of turn. And I'm sure that [38:59] the Democrat teacher unions are going to be pretty upset when you start talking about putting caps on [39:03] Citizens United. Myth number one, that somehow only Republicans and conservatives benefited from [39:07] Citizens United. I don't care what they think. Democrat labor unions with the biggest beneficiaries [39:11] from Citizens United. There are plenty of libertarians who feel the same way. Hillary Clinton outspent [39:14] Trump two to one. So don't give me the idea that somehow it's only Republicans and only... [39:19] Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know me. Notoriously not anti-Hillary. You're right. I don't hear your [39:24] solutions about campaign finance. Yeah, yeah. Let me go back to something you said earlier. Okay, [39:28] okay. But like, dude, you can't like, you can't paint, you can't paint like Democrats do this, [39:33] Republicans do this. Ask me what my position is, and I will gladly tell you. I will tell you my [39:38] position on campaign finance reform. No more dark money, 24-hour reporting period, [39:42] unlimited contributions. Unlimited contributions? Yes. Are you out of your mind? [39:48] Okay, so let me ask you a question. Are you out of your mind? Let me ask you a question. [39:50] The Young Turks network, would you say that it's more liberal or would it's more conservative? [39:54] It's absolutely more liberal, dude. Okay, so when you talk, you're influencing an election. [39:58] You think it's the same? Should that be regulated? You think us? Because that could be considered [40:01] political speech. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. You think, you think. You see where that can get really [40:05] dangerous? Do you think that, hold on, let me just understand your line of reasoning here. Do you [40:10] really think that Pfizer spending like $500,000 on a campaign so that we can make, so that we don't [40:18] have to regulate drug prices, that's the same as me, a person who very outspokenly criticizes [40:25] both parties, talking about it from a leftist perspective, with almost zero actual representatives [40:31] to support? That's the same to you? What an insane, what an insane analogy. Okay, so every speech has [40:36] currency, okay? What an insane analogy. You have to be a little bit more rational. [40:38] All speech has some form of currency, whether a celebrity endorses a politician or whether a [40:44] political action group endorses a candidate. So if your position, let me finish, allow me to finish, [40:49] that money is speech, therefore money represents value. All speech must therefore be regulated, [40:54] that when Lady Gaga endorses Hillary Clinton, you must endorse that. You're trying to apply flat [40:56] logic to something that is insane. Son, please, for the love of God, let me finish this sentence, [41:00] okay? But it's insane. I mean, so 24-hour reporting periods and no more dark money, I think allow [41:06] transparency. Yeah, you give us two bones and then you take away everything with a crazy unlimited... [41:11] If a corporation wants to participate in an election, 24-hour reporting periods. Here's what [41:15] you and I will agree. Why do lobbyists have so much power? Because government is so powerful. [41:21] The idea that somehow we can grow government and make government better as we grow it, [41:25] there is zero evidence ever to suggest that. Decentralize government back to the states and [41:30] back to the people. We have too many federal bureaucracies running away. Hold on, hold on. [41:33] Look, I'm asking you because I genuinely want to understand your perspective, okay? [41:37] So you threw out a statement where you said there's zero evidence that more government is better. [41:42] What does that mean? Can you show me one time in the last 50 years when an American [41:46] government program or agency grew and it got... American government program, agency? Yes, [41:49] because we're talking about America. Yes, but we are living a capitalist structure where people like [41:52] that piece of evidence, where an American government program grew and it got more efficient [41:56] and it did a better job at delivering value to the citizens. One. [41:59] Uh, Medicare is a pretty good one. $80 billion a year in documented Medicare waste. [42:03] Wait, so you think 11 million people are now being covered? You think the fact that 26... [42:08] By the way, here's the thing. Wait, wait, wait, hold on. [42:09] You pay into Medicare and you get it later, okay? So welfare, housing, urban development, education... [42:14] Who wants to cut Social Security, dude? Like we're having this conversation as though we don't live in the same reality. [42:20] Who's always aching to cut Social Security? Who's always aching to give tax cuts to the wealthy [42:25] and corporations? Who's always aching to grow government? Who's always aching to spend more [42:29] money that you don't have? Who's always aching to reverse the Trump tax cut? Look, look, listen. [42:33] So like, look, here... No, no, no, no, hold on. Let me finish my point. [42:36] Here's the big philosophical difference, is that we both don't trust government. Only one of us want to [42:40] make that government smaller and more accountable to the citizens. No, dude, that's not true. [42:44] That's me. He wants to give more money and more power to the very government that we both don't trust. [42:48] I'm the one who wants to make the government accountable. You're the one who benefits from [42:51] the government being corrupt because then you can turn around and say, [42:54] no, we don't need this government. We need it to be smaller so that your wealthy benefactors [42:59] can virtually enact feudalist policies upon the same people who are cheering right now for free [43:06] market enterprise as though that is going to save them. It is insane to me that people still think [43:12] that this current broken system that we live under, okay, where wages have remained stagnant [43:19] for the past 50, 60 years, while productivity has increased, which is, by the way, that's wage [43:25] exploitation, just for those of you who don't understand that concept, but like, that everything [43:30] is totally fine. And then you turn around and you say, the stock market's great. Okay, [43:34] the stock market is great, but the stock market, who owns the stock market? [43:38] I'll interrupt him. Oh, no, because I'm making a good point. You have to interrupt. [43:42] Look, listen, the stock market, the stock market, the stock market, look, Republicans love talking [43:49] about the stock market. You mentioned it in your introduction. The stock market is doing well. [43:52] Consumer confidence is up. Okay, dude. Well, the 84% of the stock market is owned by the top 10% of [43:58] wealth. Like when the stock market is doing well, it's not doing well for you. It's just doing well for [44:03] those guys. But you can be certain that when the stock market is not doing well, it won't be good [44:08] for you. Absolutely not. No, sir. Because everything is taken away from the workers. We talk about, [44:15] we talk about, like people always come up to me and tell me, people always come up to me and tell me, [44:20] hey, Hassan, why do you want to take away my earnings? And I tell them, I'm not trying to take [44:24] away your earnings. I'm trying to make sure your bosses give back what is rightfully yours. These are your [44:30] earnings. You work for them. Okay? And it is very obvious that corporations are not magnanimously [44:37] going to anytime soon give you back those wages. So we have to implement regulation. We have to [44:42] implement certain policies. This could be UBI. I don't really like it that much. But this could [44:47] potentially be taxes on the wealthy and corporations. Like there are many different ways to do it. Or this [44:53] could be regulating the wages in some way. Or allowing unions to exist in countries. I can't believe [45:00] you're booing this, man. Your father has been, look, your parents have benefited from this. Your parents [45:08] have benefited from this. Charlie's going to come in now. Okay. So first of all, if you want some more [45:12] numbers, Hispanic median income is at $50,000 right now a year, which is the highest it's ever been in [45:18] American history under President Donald Trump. Wages have gone up 3.8% in the last 18 months. [45:22] Hispanic unemployment is the lowest it's ever been. Black unemployment. In the last what month? [45:26] Three months? Hassan, for the love of God, allow me to finish, okay? But three months, that's a [45:30] ridiculous point. That's a ridiculous reference point, Charlie. That's the point. Okay, what? The lowest [45:34] ever black unemployment rate. I gave you 60 years. I gave you a 60-year window and you said the last three [45:38] months have been 3% better. Crazy. 3.8% wage growth. $50,000 annual median income for Hispanic [45:45] family, which is the highest it's ever been in American history. 3.9 million people have gone [45:50] off food stamps under this administration 18 months, which is something that everybody should [45:54] applaud. They've entered the workforce. We have more job openings than we have people to fill those [45:59] jobs right now. 3.7% unemployment rate, 4.2% GDP rate. Thank you, Hassan. Average tax cut for American [46:09] citizens at $2,800 a year. Obviously, there's more jobs available than people taking them, so we should [46:15] bring in more immigrants, right? Here's the big philosophical difference and problem, [46:18] is that Hassan says, well, I don't want to take your worker earnings away. I want to go after your [46:23] employer, essentially to make sure. I don't have the right to tell anybody what to do with any of [46:28] their money. That's the big difference, Hassan, is that you're trying to- It's their money, Charlie. [46:32] It's the workers' money. They are just taking away- No, it's not. And accumulating the profits for [46:37] themselves. I'm not- By the way, I'm not even saying abolish all profits. This is a distinctly Marxist [46:41] argument, by the way. Just because it's Marxist doesn't mean it's a bad idea. Stop being an idiot, [46:44] dude. God damn it. Like- Oh, okay. So, I'm so glad you mentioned that. So- It's so silly. Like, [46:51] as if we implement socialized medicine- Hassan, I didn't say- We're going to eat rats like Venezuela. [46:55] I didn't say it was bad. I said it was Marxist, and now I'm going to tell you why it's bad. [46:59] Oh, okay. The problem with the Marxist argument is the incentive structure. In a free market system, [47:05] incentives, everybody is incentive to create value, get a job, or take a risk, and employ people under a [47:11] Marxist socialist system. Yeah. You're incentivized to either run for political office, get as much [47:15] power as you possibly can to try to extract money away from people that don't have it. Here's- [47:20] Like, what about cooperatives? Like, I don't understand. There's multiple different ways to [47:23] do this. They do that voluntarily. Go do what the Amish do. Go live in Northern New York. In America, [47:27] we have people that live in cooperatives today. Don't tell me how to live my life. You can live your [47:31] life however you want to. It's just- Look- The big difference and distinction- The biggest problem- [47:35] is that it's impossible to live as a capitalist in a socialist country. You can live as a [47:41] socialist in a capitalist country. It's impossible to have capitalism without socialism. You could [47:45] never- How's that? You could never implement capitalism without public roads, without the [47:49] infrastructure necessary to bring private industry. What the hell are you talking about? You can live [47:53] in a socialist country. It won't be great if it's a fully socialist country. I don't think we've been [47:57] able to figure that out yet. So I'm not even saying that a fully socialist country will be great, [48:01] but you have never, ever lived in a fully capitalist country. You pay tolls? You pay tolls? [48:07] That's it? That's a user fee? That's not socialism? That's if you use the highway, [48:12] you pay for the highway. You pay a gas tax? Okay. You pay a gas tax? So if you drive a car, [48:17] you pay into the highway fund. Yeah, you're right. That's how it works to sign. You're right. [48:20] Socialism is just what you want it to be and not what it actually is. You're right. Never mind. [48:24] A program that will not benefit you to send the money to someone else that is in a different [48:29] socioeconomic circumstance. Here's the thing. Free market capitalism is the greatest wealth [48:32] creating engine in human history. It's lifting more people out of poverty and you are a beneficiary [48:37] of the very system that you are bashing right now. Because it's not free market capitalism. It's so [48:41] stupid. The last time we had free market capitalism or something close to it was leading up to the [48:47] great depression. Okay. There's no such thing as like we have a fully free market. Where is the fully [48:51] free market? If you like a decentralized government, why don't you go live in Somalia? There's [48:55] decentralized government there. All you want. Well, so we are more capitalist than we are [48:59] socialists right now. Uh-huh. And everywhere the free market- Oh, so you admit that capitalism and [49:03] socialism coexist. So we have- Thank you for proving my earlier point. Hassan, yes. We have some horror. [49:07] So yes, we have broken public schools, which you would attribute to socialist policies. No. We spend [49:12] money that we don't have. I said that we need to spend more on them. The government is far too big, [49:14] far too powerful, far too controlling over our lives. We have a 4.4 trillion dollar budget every single year. [49:20] That's weird. It's an idea. It's an ideology. You can't like make it seem- We have 3 million people [49:24] that work for the federal government. All of these are pseudo-socialist ideas of which I [49:28] categorically disagree with. So you want to privatize the school system entirely? [49:33] Okay. Localize the school system. No, no. Answer my question. [49:35] Eliminate the Department of Education. Answer my question. Don't run away. [49:38] Don't run away. Do you want to privatize the school system? All right. One at a time. [49:41] By the way, what does Foster Fries think about all that? I would like to know his perspective, [49:44] because obviously his perspective is more important. I would love- So if you're- So just- [49:47] Do you want to privatize? He's trying to attack my investors and donors, [49:50] of which I'm happy to talk about. We have 35,000 donors spanned in all 50 states. We now have a 15 [49:55] million dollar budget, and we are supported by some of the most successful people in the American [49:59] business community. He means wealthy millionaires who have stolen your money and your wages. [50:04] Oh, really? So when we get investments from people that, for example, helped create the modern [50:10] internet as we know it, or people that helped- Oh, how was the modern internet created? Oh wait, [50:13] that was also socialism. That was actually military finance. Let me ask a question. So there you go. [50:18] And another example of how publicly funded research is good, and we all benefit from it. The most [50:24] successful Silicon Valley companies right now are all socialists. Is that what you're saying? [50:27] Google, Apple, Facebook- No, absolutely not. Oh, okay. So- [50:30] Did the most successful Silicon Valley companies invent the internet? [50:32] The technology sector- Come on! That's not what I said at all. [50:35] That's not what I said at all. No, hold on. How about internet providers? You just said internet [50:37] providers. No, I said ISBs need socialism so that there's an infrastructure set in place so that [50:44] they can come and build their- Of which they pay for every single year. [50:47] Okay, exactly! That's socialism! Yes, but in order for them to operate, they have to pay into it. [50:52] This is so silly! We're talking about two different definitions. [50:55] No, we're not! There's one real definition that I'm trying to describe to you, and then there's another [51:00] one where you're just like making up and picking and choosing whatever is capitalist because it benefits [51:04] your talking point, and then claiming that the rest- Western civilization was created by free market [51:08] capitalism. It's because of more government. I'm trying to explain this concept to you, [51:12] but you refuse to understand, but I don't think it's because you don't, you can't understand it. [51:16] I think it's because you refuse to understand because it doesn't fit your narrative. You- [51:20] My narrative is about freedom. My narrative is that America is the greatest country ever to exist, [51:24] and I want to expand freedom and opportunity for all people. My narrative is that- [51:27] There is no freedom in a country- The narrative I care is that- [51:30] There's no freedom in a country- We have global poverty at the all-time low. [51:32] That is privatized tyranny, Charlie. There is no freedom in a country that is privatized tyranny, [51:36] where your bosses can do whatever they want and never even give you an example, [51:41] and never even give you a reason- I'm not arguing for anything in the same [51:45] galaxy as what you're describing, first and foremost. You just said I'm arguing for freedom. [51:49] I'm telling you that progress is important. Progress towards liberty needs to happen. [51:53] In a capitalist system, that means you have private property rights, which means if somebody is [51:56] exploiting you, you go to a judge and you adjudicate that difference. Okay. [51:59] That is inherent in a free market system. You're arguing some sort of- [52:02] Is that the only thing to happen? [52:03] Some abstract, anarcho-capitalist- What happens when the free market fails? [52:05] What happens when there are natural barriers of entry and the government obviously has to step [52:09] in and subsidize? What happens? Like we have socialism- [52:12] Like affirmative action policies- [52:13] We only have socialism for the wealthy, and we have some socialism for the very poor. [52:18] Okay. [52:19] What we need to do is bring that back and have socialism for everyone. [52:22] For example, Medicare for all would be a good place to start. [52:25] Okay. So you- [52:28] There is no answer you can give me to what will happen when automation [52:33] wipes out the labor force with artificial intelligence. Socialism, whether you like it or [52:37] not, some variation of that already exists in our country, but some variation of that- [52:42] The most inefficient, the most bankrupt aspects of our country. [52:44] Will inevitably happen. So it's really silly. You can yell about the free market and how great it is, [52:49] and also the free market's great because my dad is wealthy is not an argument that you can make anymore. [52:53] Okay. There are people that are suffering in this country. So- [52:57] So, Hassan, why don't you give 95% of your money away and go live on a commune? [53:01] Do you really think that that's how it works? [53:02] Do you really think that that's how it works? [53:03] Why not? Go live what you preach. [53:05] Look, look. [53:06] Because I, every single day- [53:07] This is as silly- [53:07] You talked uninterrupted for five minutes. [53:09] Hassan, let me finish. [53:09] Okay, go ahead. Sorry, you're right. [53:10] You're right. [53:11] I live what I practice. I am a free market capitalist. [53:13] I employ people. I took a risk. I have my own startup business. [53:17] Every single day, I practice what I preach. [53:19] He wants other people to contribute to what he considers to be a good idea. What he considers [53:24] will make the world a better place. [53:25] Okay. [53:25] That you have the freedom to go live as a socialist. Go do it, Hassan. What's stopping you? [53:28] Okay. All right. [53:29] So, here's why this is ridiculous. [53:30] This is the last point. The last point I will make is this. [53:33] Here's why that conversation is absolutely preposterous. [53:37] If I gave away the measly earnings that I had and gave away 95% of that- [53:42] How much do you make, Hassan? [53:43] That wouldn't necessarily even push the needle. I will be very honest. It's really embarrassing, [53:47] especially because my boss is sitting right there. I make, I make $60,000 a year. Okay. [53:52] And that's a really good salary, but it's not like what Ted Cruz's wife was talking about the [53:56] other day. When he said, when she said $174,000 salary a year, it's not like we're going to buy [54:02] a second home anytime soon, but that's besides the point. Okay. You're trying to attack me, [54:06] which is ridiculous. Like asking me what my salary is. Sure. I'll reveal it willingly. [54:10] You brought it up in context. I'm asking why don't you live like a socialist? [54:12] Okay. [54:12] The point is larger. The point is larger than that, Charlie. [54:16] I live like a capitalist every single day, Cenk. I live as a capitalist, okay? [54:20] Hey, hey, hey, hey. [54:20] I live when I buy. [54:21] No, no, no, no. [54:23] What do I do? I get charity every single year. [54:25] Hold on, hold on, hold on. [54:26] What's my salary? [54:27] Charlie, Charlie, Charlie. [54:27] Less than it. [54:28] Charlie, take a seat. [54:29] Come on, Cenk. Let's go. [54:30] Charlie, what are you doing? [54:31] Take a seat. Take a seat. [54:32] You psycho. [54:33] All right, no, no. Take a seat. You're going to take a seat. [54:36] You're going to take a seat over here. [54:37] Oh my God. [54:37] What's my salary? [54:39] All right. [54:40] Oh, ridiculous. [54:41] All right. Behave, everyone. Jesus Christ. [54:44] Okay, okay. [54:44] I practice what I preach, Cenk. [54:46] Hey, hey, hey, hey. [54:46] Charlie, Charlie. [54:47] Stop, stop. [54:47] You do not practice what you preach. [54:49] Stop, Charlie, Charlie. [54:51] All right, hold on. [54:52] Last point, last point, last point. [54:53] You don't want to give them the attention here. [54:55] Everyone, everyone, quiet down, quiet down, quiet down, quiet down. [54:58] Last point, last point. [54:59] We are funded by the grassroots of this country. [55:01] You can try to demagogue it all you want. [55:04] Okay, can I finish my point? [55:07] All right. [55:07] Less than Hassan, so you can check it yourself. [55:09] Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. [55:10] Let me finish my point. Let me finish my point. [55:12] All right. [55:12] Right? We're having a reasonable discussion, right? [55:15] We're here. [55:15] We're talking to one another. [55:16] Let's stop screaming at one another, including those of the Young Turks who obviously don't [55:20] pay me enough. [55:21] So here's what I was trying to say, okay? [55:25] We like to make ourselves feel comfortable by implementing certain environmental policies, [55:30] for example, like the straw ban in California, which is largely ridiculous because it lowers 0.006% [55:37] of the plastic in the ocean. [55:38] This is just simply to make ourselves feel comfortable when 100 companies are responsible [55:44] for 71% of the carbon emissions. [55:46] Like, it's ridiculous to think that we are going to have any sort of positive change if I go out and [55:52] I live in an upstate New York-like collective. Obviously, I'm fighting so that everyone can at [55:58] least see that I'm coming at this not from a partisan place, not from a partisan place at all, [56:03] but from a place where I'm looking at our problems in this country and trying to find solutions that [56:09] will help every single American. [56:10] So we have to wrap it up now, but I want to say a couple things. First of all, I'm really grateful [56:20] to both of you. What we're seeing right here is, except for that last part, is, yeah, is American [56:28] democracy at work. This is about a competition of ideas. And since the founding of this country, [56:33] this is really what it was all about. What's the role of government and what's the role of free [56:37] enterprise? And so I just want to thank both of you for having a constructive and lively debate [56:43] give both of them a big round of applause. God bless America. Thank you. And God bless Donald Trump.