David Vonner Interview

[00:00:00] Speaker 1: How's it going, super friends? Welcome back to my mustache. Today, we're going to have a nice little laid-back chitty chat with David Vonner, the person who is at least in part responsible for the creation of this Batman figure and this Batman figure. That's right, both of those figures created quite the stir in the Instagram-verse, and I simply had to have a conversation with the man who created them. So, thank you so much for joining me today on the channel. There's a lot of people that have a lot of questions about those two oh-so-fantastic-looking Batman figures, the classic oval and capsule belt, and that definitive black and gray with a solid belt, solid bat, and pouches. So, I guess the first question I would have for you is, why wouldn't Mattel pick up these two fantastic Batmans, definitive Batmans? [00:00:49] David Vonner: Well, it's kind of like a long story behind that, you know, but I try to, you know, shorten it up. But, you know, basically, this wasn't, I know, I wasn't part of the DC team. You know, I was part of the WWE team. And, but originally, almost like a year and a half, almost two years prior to me joining Mattel, I interviewed for the DC team. Like, that's where I wanted to be, you know, and because, like, that's where, you know, you know, for me professionally, like, you know, that was something that, that was a goal of mine. But also, too, like, just as a lifelong fan, you know, and then, you know, as someone working in this field, I just always wanted to be able to, you know, contribute to, to that, to that brand and everything. And just work on it and just, like, like, just indulge in it from a, from a fan and a professional standpoint. [00:01:45] Speaker 1: Yeah. And you can tell you're a fan. That's for sure. [00:01:48] David Vonner: Well, thank you. But, I mean, you know, so, so, you know, I wind up joining the Mattel on the WWE team. So now I kind of, I can see what's going on with the team, but I'm not really, you know, I'm not, I'm not a part. I don't know what's going on. I'm not getting like daily briefs or updates or the ins and outs with the license or licensee relationship. So I don't know, but, but, but I'm, I'm, I'm looking at it from up close, you know, and I see how things are trying to be changed and try to be implemented. And I see some of the designs, but for me, it just was like, you know, I, I appreciate the look of the DC universe line, you know, that four horsemen looking like they're friends of mine and everything. But for me, I just kind of felt like that look just kind of went too far, you know, it went too long. Possibly overused. Possibly overused. And, and, and I, and I understand why, you know, from, from a, from a development standpoint, a design and development standpoint for manufacturing. And I understand the need to reuse these parts over and over again. Yeah. [00:03:01] Speaker 1: New tooling is expensive. [00:03:02] David Vonner: Right. [00:03:03] Speaker 1: Yeah. [00:03:03] David Vonner: But you try to update it as you get, as you go, you know, and, um, you, you want to try to offer like your whole new, you know, figure, you know, your whole new body look or body style. Yeah. [00:03:17] Speaker 1: Yeah. Something of a bit more value too. Something that hasn't been quite seen before with that, that particular figure line. [00:03:24] David Vonner: Right. But also now, now that's just my philosophy. Yep. You know, that's just my philosophy of how I approach it when we're dealing with, you know, when we're having a line that's dealing with multiple, uh, assortments, you know, and we've got a, you know, penny pinch or, or just budget wisely using our tooling and using our dollars, you know? So I get it, but, um, you know, also too, I think that like with any, with any look or with any line you have, you know, just your personal style flair or, or, or idea that you would like to implement into the line and other designers have theirs, you know? So, you know, so I, I just felt like it was very much in the vein of the look that was kind of, um, set forth and that was that. And, but also other things that were kind of coming out of that, I just felt like a different look could be required. Yeah. So, so I've kind of had this, this little secret, you know, clandestine like thing going on with the guys that I know. So, and, and that's, and that's another thing too. I'm sorry if you can hear noise in the background. [00:04:35] Speaker 1: I'm not like, no, I can't. Your mic is only picking you up. So you're good. Okay. [00:04:39] David Vonner: But, um, you know, that's another thing, like being in the industry, it's like being in the movies, right? Like in the film industry, it's like you have your cinematographer that you normally work with, or, you know, your stunt coordinator, your special effects guy, your lighting guy, you know, it's like a whole group behind the scenes other than just the writer or producer or director. Yeah. [00:05:00] Speaker 1: It's a team, team effort. [00:05:02] David Vonner: And, and also since it's a team and you're familiar with the guys on your team, like it's just, it just so happens that the general giant guys are, you know, guys that I'm from William. You know, I've worked with them for years, for years beyond Mattel, you know, beyond Hasbro. Like I worked with them back from the Toy Biz days, you know, so there's a lot, there's a long relationship there, you know, and, uh, professional, professional and personal. So that was just my preference and, and using, using them, you know, uh, as far as like Beardy and Renee, um, the painter and sculptor and, and, and having Adam on board. And, and, uh, we all just kind of put our minds together as far as fans, you know, just lovers of this because not just from a fan standpoint, but from the business aspect too, you know, with the hopes that it could possibly just, you know, it could do multiple things. Maybe if that'd be infused into a line, maybe can inspire the line, you know, I think a lot of us, a lot of us fans looked at those two Batman figures. [00:06:07] Speaker 1: And I think the general thought was why wasn't this style, what was used to try and reinvigorate the line? Because we know that the DC universe classics, um, changed into near the end of the DC universe classics and the DC multiverse. When it changed into, they had more articulation for the sculpts, but the body proportions were kind of weird. They had kind of spindly legs. And I mean, you, I'm sure you're familiar with the last few waves of multiverse and I love the figures, but you know, when I looked at their body proportions, I just thought, ah, they, you know, they're, I felt like they were missing the mark as far as creating something that would reinvigorate the line that would, you know, redraw people's attention. And sure, a lot of people, there was a lot of hype about those figures. I mean, my videos that I made on those figures got really good views for the size of my channel at the time, but had the line of taking the direction of those two Batman figures that, that you and your friends created, you know, maybe right now we would see Mattel still currently holding a six inch license for DC. Because those two Batman figures, they had the accessories and fans want the accessories. So they had the two extra hands. You had the cowl that hung down over the back there with the extra Bruce Wayne head. You had the grapple gun and I believe there was a batarang. So that's, that's a reasonable amount of accessories. And if they were able to bring in your fantastic designs and base a new re re-imagining of the DC line, Superman, Green Lantern, say Jon Stewart, you know, Wally West Flash with maybe three other basic bucks, you know, that they then add detail to. I feel like the line, man, even if they ended it, that, that last six waves would have gone. It was such a bang, such a bang. And it's a shame because those two Batman figures for many of us would have been the definitive Batman. I mean, there's a reason why, I mean, customizing and customizing and customizing. A lot of people, and I'm not the only one saying this. A lot of people are saying, had your Batman's been released, they would have stopped customizing because they feel there wouldn't have been a need to customize anymore. That, that's how well received they are. And I feel like it's maybe a bit of a misstep on Mattel's part for not receiving your Batman figures better. [00:08:33] David Vonner: Well, I think that my, actually, my approach to designing action figures is, is actually with the customizer in mind. You know, I want the customizer to do their thing because, you know, me personally, I'm influenced by customizers. You know, it's, it's a, you know, to me, it's a yin and a yang because, you know, we're all searching, like, I'm, you know, a guy that I work with named Damon Nee, who's over at Marvel. And he said to me a long time ago, he said, we're all visual people. You know what I'm saying? So when you see it, when you, when you, it's one thing from talking about it or wishing it, but when you actually see the change, then you have to let that change occur. You know what I mean? And we can, we can talk about it. We can hypothesize about it, but visually you just have to see it. You have to see. And I think this is one of the things that, I think this is one of the, the, the shocking things about those figures, the fact that people saw what they always wanted to see. They just never saw it. [00:09:39] Speaker 1: Yes. We wasted potential. That's what we saw. We saw two fantastic figures that could have, like I said, reinvigorated the line and it, it was a lot of what you incorporated into your figures is what the fans were looking for. Right. And it, it never, it never saw the light of it. I'm curious. I'm curious. Take me with you. What was it like to do? Like, did you present these figures to somebody at Mattel on, you know, on the silver platter and say, look what we've done. We're fans. You didn't even have to commission or pay us. We just did it. What do you think? Tell me what it was like. I want to be a fly on the wall. [00:10:16] David Vonner: It definitely was delivered on a platter. I wouldn't say it was a silver one, but it was definitely delivered on a platter. But, um, you know, I had it, you know, all done up and everything and, you know, took some pictures of it and everything. And then, um, I presented it to the director. And the reason why I presented it to him was because, you know, I just kind of felt that, you know, why present it to the ones who are designing it when it's constantly being designed the same way. Yeah, you know, and so I presented it to the director in the hopes of maybe this can inspire the look of the line without kind of encroaching on anyone else's work, you know, or, you know, kind of critique it. But wanted the work to speak for itself. You know what I mean? And because, because it's very unorthodox, it's like, and also like, that's how I'm, I'm accustomed to working. Like, you know, I, I, I worked on the giant 19th Galactus and the Sentinel and like those items weren't, you know, um, part of a line plan or anything. Like that was just me kind of looking around and saying, man, we need this, like we need the update. So I just went and did it. And then we just galvanize everyone around us to do it. So that's kind of my approach. That's what I like to do. Like shock and awe, throw something in there and say, like, let's, let's go. Cause this is how the creators used to do it. You know, they didn't just sit around and just have all this data, you know, kind of orchestrate to look at a line. They went and just went hog wild. Frank Miller did his thing, you know, top and fall and did. His thing that, you know, these, these creators did their thing to, you know, impact the, the, you know, everything. And it was out of frustration or, or whatever reasons, but they just couldn't be held back. [00:12:07] Speaker 1: So they became the change they wanted to see. And I think that's my ideas. I think that's what you were trying to do. You, you saw some changes you wanted to see. And then you were like, well, if not me, then who, and if not now, then when? And so you did it. [00:12:20] David Vonner: Let's do it. Yeah. [00:12:22] Speaker 1: So then what, so what was the, like, so he, the, the, the, the fella saw the figures. What did he say to you? [00:12:27] David Vonner: Like, I mean, it was like raised out by like, wow, these, these look really, really nice. And then it was like, okay, you know, um, and he took them and I literally, that was the last time I saw them. And, and, and, um, it was, it was, it happened so long ago. I can't even, um, I can't even actually tell you the exact time, but it was a long time ago, you know, and, um, but, you know, at least prior to the losing of the license. Right. So, um, they're locked away in a vault somewhere, but, you know, again, like, you know, there's a lot that comes into play with their license or license relationship, you know? And I knew that they were, um, that it was rocky, you know, but I also know, um, that I could have potentially been an asset to the team because I know certain individuals over there, you know? So I, I just realized that I could have, along with designing something a little bit better, maybe orchestrating a different type of relationship that maybe could utilize a little bit more, you know, strongly, you know? So, but I didn't know any of this was, you know, the ins and outs of, uh, uh, because I'm, I'm overseeing the WWE line, you know? So that's, you're in a different sector, right? It's a whole nother world in and of itself. There's always things that's going on. And actually, you know, I tried to actually infuse a little bit of WWE and DC, you know, and, and, um, you know, just because I'm just a fan of, of the two and, and, um, how can we just somehow work together, you know? And that, you know, so, you know, time went on and time went on and then I just, you know, it, it, news travels that we lost a license. And then, you know, the spin master has a license and then McFarland has a license split up. [00:14:20] Speaker 1: Yep. [00:14:21] David Vonner: But then it was like, you know, maybe we can, maybe it's not a done deal. Maybe we're still in the, in the game. And, you know, so it was, uh, for me, just a lot of uncertainty. But then, you know, after that, you know, it was like from the blowback of that and it was like the teams are on dis, dispersed and everything. The team was broken up. So manager from the DC team became the manager of the WWE team. So, you know, it, it was the P game. [00:14:49] Speaker 1: It's the shuffle, the P around none of the pods game. [00:14:52] David Vonner: Yeah. Yeah. And so that just became kind of strange to me that, you know, we've kind of were in a position where now we're taking design direction from the same members that were part of losing the license. [00:15:08] Speaker 1: Like, at least that's no, yeah, you know what it, I feel like, uh, like I said, I feel like DC, I feel like Mattel may have been able to save themselves from losing the license, at least for a few more years, maybe five years or whatever. Or maybe they could have at least retained the license to do six inch scale and, and said that it was for boys action. Right. So it was for kids. And then maybe McFarlane could have gotten, gotten a seven, because McFarlane is not really doing a whole lot with the DC license in the way of the broader DC universe. Anyway, he's basically just, we're really, as more and more waves from McFarlane begin to be revealed, it's like, okay, he really is bat centric, like 98%. So at this point, it's like, you know, perhaps it would have been more beneficial had those figures been taken seriously, but I still had the license. [00:16:02] David Vonner: Maybe that McFarlane has taken, I think that, I think that the post of McFarlane is, it's a needed, you know, injection in the arm, you know, I think it's definitely needed, you know, for that, for those type of looks. But I also think that there is a, you know, I'm also a classic comic book guy, you know, so me, I want to see that classic, you know, style, but updated as well. You know, but as far as Mattel goes, you know, and the DC license, I really think it's like a bigger issue than just that license, you know, I think it's just a bigger, you know, philosophical and cultural thing at Mattel as to the reason as to why things are kind of happening the way they are. [00:16:46] Speaker 1: Sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, but I was going to say, yeah, well, because Mattel, they're like a larger company, right? They're like one of the bigger players, while companies like McFarlane, and McFarlane is getting a lot of steam, he's getting licenses out the wazoo as of late. And the same thing can be said for, say, NECA, they tend to be smaller companies, and they're ran more or less by fans of each individual license. Whereas Mattel, they're a toy company that their main objective is to sell product. [00:17:23] David Vonner: Yeah, but so is Hasbro. [00:17:24] Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's true. But Hasbro's been doing fantastic stuff with their, I love their G.I. Joe stuff. I've just, I've been loving their new G.I. Joe stuff. I can't really say much of their Marvel Legends, because I don't own any of them, but. [00:17:37] David Vonner: I really think it's a matter of, you know, thinking and philosophy, you know, and that creates a culture, and then within that, that creates, you know, design language and everything else. [00:17:50] Speaker 1: Yeah. [00:17:50] David Vonner: So it's like, I understand, like, and for me, looking at it as a fan, being in touch with the fan base, hearing them, understanding that, being part of that culture, I would have shook up the DC team a long time ago. And I would have went with a different approach a long time ago, because this is what the fans have been saying. This is kind of like, I mean, retail has kind of been saying the same thing. I mean, it all kind of reflects, you know, I think that certain changes would have been implemented a long time ago. Selfishly, I believe that the change should have began, or not began with me, but I think I should have been part of that change, and I wasn't. And I think that with hindsight being 20-20, it's just a culmination of everything, you know. Yeah. And it's no longer there, and I think that that's a blow. That was a blow to me, because I'm like, this is Mattel. Like, this is the home of all these legacy toys and brands, you know. [00:18:45] Speaker 1: Hot Wheels, Barbie. [00:18:47] David Vonner: Toy Box. Yeah. Like, so for me, it was like, what better place would this brand be other than Mattel? Like, why can't we give it the attention that it deserves? [00:19:00] Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good question. I don't know. The thing is, there was a lot of people that, for example, like you talk about the changes, right? And philosophy. A good philosophy would have been to really try to listen to what a lot of the collectors were saying wave after wave. And this probably is, it's one of the reasons, I think, why things went a little bit, you know, boobs up with the DC license. One of the reasons. Because a lot of fans were saying, you know, we want double-jointed knees. We want double-jointed elbows. We want more articulation with these figures. And it really took Mattel a long time to start implementing that with their figures because they had basic molds that they would use all the time because they were trying to save money. And I don't know what was going on in the back end, why it was so, like, they had to save so much money that they couldn't just go, let's just make basic bulky, medium-sized, skinny, and small double-jointed knees for the guys, for example. Why that didn't happen sooner? Because I know a lot of people in the forums were like, yeah, I'm done. I'm out. I'm not going to buy any more Mattel. I mean, because they felt like they weren't being listened to, I think is what it is. [00:20:08] David Vonner: What you also saw in the forums as well, like, particularly, like, I'm speaking from a fan, you know, so what you saw from the forums as well before I got there was a lot of conflict between certain individuals on the DC team and the fans. And to me, that is not, I don't, I don't believe in that philosophy. I don't think that you should have a conflict with the fans. I feel as though you should educate your consumer, you know, and McFarland does a fantastic job at that. NECA does a great job at that. They educate their consumer. Now, the end result, you may not agree with it, but at least you understand the, have a clear understanding of the rhyme and the reason. [00:20:49] Speaker 1: For their choices, yeah. [00:20:50] David Vonner: Their choices. And I felt, though, from a standpoint, that there was a lot of conflict between the DC team at Mattel and the fan base. And me viewing that, I was just never, I was just never one to think that that should be a way to do it. [00:21:13] Speaker 1: Yeah, well, fans had the questions, right? Why? Like, why this? Why that? And then, but, and then the answers were never really given. And so, again, that, yeah, that leads to fans feeling like they're not being responded to. And they're like, well, why is there a forum? You know, for example, on Maddie here, why is there a forum? If they're not really going to answer our questions and they'd say, hey, I'm asking again, you'd see them asking the same question. And then they just wouldn't get answered. [00:21:39] David Vonner: Because it's like a kid. It's like a, I mean, it's like, you're a father. You have children. And the children have no point of reference. So everything is new. So when you do a magic trick for your kid, the first thing they're going to ask is, how did you do that? Yeah. True. You know, so it's kind of like the same thing in the toy industry. Like, there's a lot of unknowns. There's a lot of mystery. So when guys are like, have been lifelong fans of like DC and Marvel and all these characters, and then they finally get to see it in figural form, because we're all visual people. Back to Damon Lee's statement. You know, it's like you expect it to be a certain way. You expect these things to function a certain way, because that's the trick. Yeah. You know, now, but now it's like, now you can engage with the magician. Yeah. You know, can you do this? And how did you do that? Yeah. Magician is going to be like, well, you know, screw you or take it or, you know, whatever. And they want to, that person wants to engage with them. And to me, in the magician's standpoint, it's like, you've got to educate them. Not necessarily give up the trick, but at least educate them in a way to do the sleight of hand another way so you can kind of get them over here. But, no, I just kind of felt like their interaction was never one that I felt was a positive thing. [00:23:08] Speaker 1: It wasn't beneficial. That's, that's for sure. I, I, I, I stopped commenting in that form, for example. I, well, and just because it can get so, I, actually, let's back up. Let's broaden that statement to that kind of comment. I don't usually comment almost anywhere just because I know that it can become very heated very quick. People get, people get very, very upset very quickly. And so I, I just, I just learned to stay out of the fray and just let people do their thing. Which is why I try to not harbor that here as much as I, as I possibly can. I do share my opinion from time to time and it gets me in trouble. People don't like it when you have an opinion, but, you know, it is what it is. So, I just want to make sure I get all my questions here. You've, you've actually done a great job of answering a lot of the stuff I was going to ask you. So, but now I got this, uh, I got this page of Dr. Chicken Scratch here. I want to just have a little response. Bigger gate. Batman gate. Um, no, I, you answered everything. You, you, oh, I guess the, I guess the final thing is I was going to ask you if you had them, but obviously you don't Mattel still has them, right? [00:24:20] David Vonner: They, they, they, they, I, I mean, a Mattel, they're in the hands of a Mattel representative. Now, is it the director? Is it in the office that's guarded by the security? Like, Hey, you leave it up to the imagination, but it's in the, uh, Mattel clutches. Yeah. [00:24:42] Speaker 1: How did you guys do the head sculpts? By the way, you guys totally started from scratch with those head sculpts. [00:24:47] David Vonner: Yeah. I mean, like, again, like everyone was saying, like, it looks like guardian and all this other stuff from Marvel. But again, you have to understand that, you know, we're the, we, that's what we're accustomed to, you know, it's kind of, it's kind of like when John Byrne left Marvel and went, went over to draw Superman. It looked very, very much like a Marvel book because it was John Byrne's hand, you know? So that was kind of like the style that they, we were playing in. And also too, you know, um, you know, being that we also worked close together in WWE, you know, it was like, it was an extension of working together very closely and also working with what we're accustomed to working with. [00:25:31] Speaker 1: Yeah. [00:25:32] David Vonner: And this is why you got the figure that it looked. And again, this was like, you know, our representation, you know, with the hopes that it could be utilized in some manner or form. And like, you know, to be quite honest with you, I knew that there was no chance in hell that it would get into the line for a multitude of other reasons, really. You know, that, that, that I still, that still boggle my mind or play out in my mind, you [00:25:58] Speaker 1: know, but, um, but I'm territorial, right? Like maybe the line belonged to someone else. So yours could never. [00:26:03] David Vonner: A whole lot of reasons. [00:26:05] Speaker 1: Yeah. [00:26:06] David Vonner: So, you know, I, I, I kind of, I know, I knew that there was like a slim chance, but you know, I also hope that maybe this could spark a bigger conversation. [00:26:16] Speaker 1: I guess on a positive note, if someday maybe Mattel ever ends up getting the license back for whatever reason, they've got your figures on file. So, I mean, I guess there's, there's a tiny bit of a golden. [00:26:30] David Vonner: But I think it may be, maybe, you know, if it inspires someone else, you know, maybe not even to do a Batman, but it inspires the next kid to be able to, you know, design a toy because they didn't know it was going to happen that way. Like for me, like, that's what I enjoy, man. Like I enjoy the, like, like, like I said, the magic trick. I love the look on everyone's face when they're like, holy cow. Yeah. Like love that. That's what I, that's why I do what I do. [00:26:55] Speaker 1: I love, I love customizing. I love doing it. I love it. But anyway, I suppose it is, you know what? It's one for the history books and, uh, no sense in dwelling over what didn't happen and lamenting it too much, but I'm certainly thankful that you shared those images with us. [00:27:14] David Vonner: I am too. Cause look, we, we, we would never would have had a conversation. [00:27:18] Speaker 1: No, we wouldn't. I wouldn't even, I honestly, I wouldn't know you existed. I live down in my basement. I am in my basement all the time. That's it. I don't talk to anybody. So. [00:27:27] David Vonner: But I mean, I love DC. I love DC fans. I never would have had the opportunity to even engage with you or the community that you represent had this not even been done. So like that's, that's the joy of toys, man. Even if we have it, so even the kid across the street that don't is like, yo man, you know, that's cool. You know, let's play together. Let's talk, you know, because we understand each other from a different standpoint, you know, mutual understanding, mutual love, you know? So, and we're all hurting. We all wish we had that toy. [00:27:59] Speaker 1: Yeah. You know, that was me when I was a kid. Yeah. GI Joe's was a big one. I would have a whole, I had a whole buttload of GI Joe's and I had friends that had Joe's. Pardon? Flag. I'm sorry. I didn't catch you. Did you have the U.S. flag? U.S. flag? No, I never had it. I never had it. Right. And that, that was one. I never had that. I never had the, uh, the spaceship. The shuttle. Never had the shuttle. Right. And I, and I never had the snake eyes with the two big knives across the chest. And that was the snake eyes. But I had friends that had it. So I would go and we would play together and he'd go, well, I want to use your general hawk and Destro. Well, can I use your snake eyes? And then we would do the old switcheroo or with the secret wars figures. I never had captain America or Spider-Man, but I had Wolverine and Magneto. And so we would do the old swap-a-roo while we played. It, it, there, there was a, there was definitely a very community-based thing. I, I, Ninja Turtles and superpowers, same thing. Yep. Loved it. Yep. Well, anyway, David, it has been super, super fantastic having you on the show. A lot of people had a lot of questions and you've answered all of them, uh, way more than, better than I could have asked them. You just fluidly went through them. So I'm really thankful that we had this chance to chat. I had a chance to get to know you and that you came on the channel today. [00:29:25] David Vonner: Yeah, man. You know, I'm, I'm happy to be here, man. I'm happy to call you a friend, you know, and let's, let's, let's chat some more when all is over, man. I hope to hang out with you at a comic con, man. You know, yeah, I hope to get there. Let's see, you know, continue to build and broaden the community too, man. [00:29:42] Speaker 1: Yeah. I say, I say, let's go for it. As soon as the, uh, the COOF is finished, you know, maybe I'll be able to make it out to, uh, SDCC sometime. I'm trying to make that pilgrimage. So if I ever get there, where are you now? Oh, I'm in Canada. [00:29:57] David Vonner: I'm in Ontario. Oops. I thought I heard that in your, in your accent. [00:30:01] Speaker 1: Yeah. I'm in Ontario, Canada. Don't let the Hawaiian shirt fool you. That's just my bizarre fashion sense. I, you know, thought that I would wear something bright and colorful. No, you look beautiful. [00:30:12] David Vonner: You look beautiful. I dig it. Well, thank you. [00:30:15] Speaker 1: Mustache and all. [00:30:16] David Vonner: Yeah, man. You're like a superhero. I mean, with the primary, the red and the blue and everything. And also too, a fun fact, I'm like, I actually suffer from color blindness. So I have my special Enchroma glasses that allow me to see a broader color spectrum. So, you know, that's why everything pops in the background, man. You look beautiful and everything looks super cool, man. So, yeah, I dig it. [00:30:37] Speaker 1: I thought those were just fashionable glasses because you look spectacular in them. I didn't know that they were chroma. Well, there you go. I learn something new every day. [00:30:44] David Vonner: Yeah. [00:30:45] Speaker 1: Anyway, I, I thank you for joining me and I will see you around the interwebs. Take care, brother. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.