CS MBANDI SWEATING! 🔥 Furious Senator Sifuna Corners CS Mbandi in Heated Senate Hearing!

[0:00] with such actions being effected through publication in the Kenya Gazette indicating the official name and location of the police station. [0:09] Accordingly, the National Treasury has no statutory role in the establishment or degassetement of police stations. [0:16] Honorable Chairperson, I wish to state that since 2018, [0:20] the National Treasury, in consultation with the Ministry of Lands and Physical Planning, [0:24] has been pursuing the acquisition of suitable public land for various public purposes, [0:31] namely, one, construction of the Kenya financial sector regulators headquarters, [0:37] two, allocation of lands to the African Trade Insurance Agency, ATD, for the construction of its headquarters, [0:45] and three, acquisition of land for the St. John ambulance headquarters. [0:49] These efforts were undertaken in furtherance of government policy and commitments, [0:53] including the government of Kenya's commitment made in 2011 to host the headquarters of the African Trade Insurance Agency in Nairobi. [1:02] So in 2018, a parcel of land located in the upper area of Nairobi, [1:08] and then occupied by the National Police, was identified as a potential site. [1:13] Subsequently, Cabinet approved the allocation of land to the African Trade Insurance Agency, [1:20] with the expectation that the National Police Service would be relocated to an alternative site. [1:26] However, it was later established that the identified parcel of land was unavailable for reallocation. [1:31] Consequently, the intended allocation did not materialize, [1:35] and the National Treasury has not received any further update regarding the matter. [1:39] But I think the PCS has more detailed information regarding this. [1:48] So the National Treasury's involvement has therefore been limited to efforts aimed at securing suitable public land [1:54] for the African Trade Insurance Agency, the financial sector regulators, and the St. John ambulance headquarters. [2:02] Despite continued engagements with the ministry responsible for lands, [2:06] no suitable parcel of public land has been secured to date. [2:10] So in view of the foregoing, I wish to emphasize the following. [2:14] That Cabinet approved the provision of land to the African Trade Insurance Agency in 2018, [2:19] in fulfillment of the Government of Kenya's commitment to host the agency's headquarters in Nairobi. [2:24] Although a parcel of land in Upper Hill had initially been identified, [2:28] it was established that the land was still unavailable for reallocation at the time of communication. [2:35] The National Treasury has continued to explore alternative public land options [2:39] for the African Trade Insurance Agency, financial sector regulators, and St. John ambulance headquarters. [2:45] And finally, the establishment or deconsetment of police stations remains [2:49] a statutory function of the Inspector General of the National Police Service [2:53] under Section 40 of the National Police Service Act. [2:56] And the National Treasury has no mandate in that process. [2:59] Honorable Chairperson and Honorable Members, [3:01] I trust that this statement adequately addresses the issues raised by the Committee. [3:05] The National Treasury remains committed to cooperating fully with Parliament [3:09] and with all government agencies in the discharge of their respective mandates. [3:13] I thank you. [3:14] Thank you, CS. [3:17] Members, any intervention? [3:19] Senator Sifuna. [3:21] I don't know where to begin, Waziri, [3:24] because I had the early opportunity to read the response that came from the PCS. [3:30] And your response is totally at odds with the response that has come from the PCS, [3:36] because the PCS, when you go to his statement, [3:38] he confirms that this land has actually already been allocated. [3:41] The only reason you are here, Waziri, is because that all public land, [3:46] essentially the people who have the titles to those properties, [3:49] are the National Treasury. [3:50] And we wanted clarity, [3:52] because we believe that this movement is, on the face of it, [4:00] a movement of public assets into the hands of private entities. [4:04] And that is why there was concern. [4:06] The other questions I think we will take with the PCS there. [4:09] Now, are you familiar with the legal status of these entities? [4:16] For instance, if you were to be asked who the Kenya Financial Security Regulator is, [4:22] or who the Africa Trade Insurance Agency is, [4:26] or who St. John Ambulance is, in terms of their status and nature, [4:30] are they private entities, or are they public entities? [4:37] Actually, indeed, Chair, you are right, Senator Sifuna. [4:41] This question should be addressed, basically, [4:44] from PCS office, because he's in charge, also, of foreign affairs, [4:50] where the host agreements reside literally. [4:56] So I know African Trade Insurance TD very well, [5:03] but the host agreement resides in PCS office. [5:08] So he would be the right person to address all the issues around these entities. [5:14] And I wanted to say that in terms of the responsibility of cabinet secretary, [5:21] yes, all these persons of land are registered. [5:24] Then it used to be under permanent secretary for national treasury. [5:29] Now it is cabinet secretary. [5:31] But again, the custody or the title deed for all security-related organs and agencies [5:38] are with the ministry. [5:40] So we are providing, we are like trustees, [5:46] providing that guide and check in terms of making sure [5:52] that transfers are done procedurally. [5:57] But again, I want to be very, very clear [6:02] that the title for this piece of land, [6:07] whether it is a police station, [6:10] they are with the parent ministries. [6:12] In terms of the financial regulators, [6:15] yes, I know the financial regulators, [6:18] like Capital Markets Authority and the Insurance Regulatory Authority. [6:22] These were the financial regulators that needed the land to be settled. [6:27] St. John's Ambulance, we all know the status of St. John's Ambulance. [6:31] But that is what I can say for now. [6:35] Yeah, Chair, so that I close. [6:37] Ziri, because your response is very brief [6:39] and maybe the other questions are really not your forte here. [6:45] There is a paragraph where you have referenced [6:50] that it was later established [6:53] that the identified parcel of land was unavailable for relocation. [6:57] This was after the initial attempt to relocate this land. [7:00] Maybe you could provide us with the details [7:03] why that land was not available for relocation during that period. [7:07] And I would also want to know if you as a ministry, [7:10] because the land is actually National Treasury. [7:13] The title is National Treasury. [7:15] It's in the name of the National Treasury [7:16] on behalf of the people of Kenya. [7:17] In terms of process, Waziri, [7:20] do you believe that reallocating land from a police station, [7:28] which is essentially a public service, [7:31] to these private entities is a process that requires [7:34] to be subjected to Article 10 of the Constitution? [7:38] And finally, do you know as Treasury [7:40] the value of that piece of land? [7:42] Thank you, Chair. [7:46] Yes, he is. [7:50] Yeah, I think let the PCS come in to help me on this, [7:55] because, as I said before, [7:57] that this matter is actually residing in PCS office. [8:03] And, Chair, you know, once I have my boss here, [8:07] he should be the one speaking. [8:09] Actually, I was wondering why I was invited alongside PCS. [8:15] Ordinarily, I would only be invited if PCS was not coming. [8:19] Or if I come, I come to give him support. [8:22] But now, in this case, he didn't ask for my support. [8:25] But I understand the Senate invited me, [8:29] because as the National Treasury, [8:32] we are the ones who are in charge of government assets for that matter. [8:38] But now to respond to Senator Sifona, [8:42] the procedure of transferring land is well documented. [8:47] And it cannot be, the land cannot leave government to any other entity [8:54] without a procedure or a process. [8:58] Again, for anyone to have land in this country, whether private, [9:04] it must come from public to private. [9:07] So there is nothing illegal with the land which is public, [9:11] that is designated for public use, [9:13] in going to private entity if the process is followed. [9:20] So if you may allow me, Chair, [9:22] I think I should yield to the PCS to come in and address all these other questions. [9:29] Because I don't want to proceed and then I contradict what the PCS is presenting. [9:36] You know, the reason why we invited you, [9:41] you are the custodian of government properties. [9:46] And I'm sure once the property is supposed to be released, [9:51] it must be brought to your attention before you release. [9:55] So we wanted to know, of course, even you, [9:58] you have to check whether the legal procedures were followed or not. [10:01] So we wanted to hear from you whether the legal procedures as far as this matter is concerned [10:07] was followed or brought to your attention. [10:11] And we invited you specifically for that, [10:16] even if your boss should be able to explain certain things. [10:21] And again, AG actually wrote on the same matter [10:25] because we wanted her to tell us whether legal procedures were followed. [10:29] and she says she has never been involved as far as this matter is concerned. [10:34] And we thought maybe Attorney General should have given a legal advice [10:38] as far as this matter is concerned. [10:41] So that is the reason why we invited all the relevant ministries. [10:47] So if you say that you have nothing much to add, [10:51] I think we can release you. [10:54] And we wanted you to come before PCS [10:56] because you said you wanted to leave for the other meeting. [11:01] So that's why we invited you, number one. [11:05] So maybe can I just say something? [11:07] You know, we had had a discussion with PCS [11:10] and we had actually agreed that the PCS addresses this question. [11:15] And in my view, yes, I hold the titles, [11:21] but on behalf of government. [11:23] And PCS is prime cabinet secretary. [11:26] Once he's here, I can only give him support. [11:30] But I should allow him to respond on behalf of the government. [11:34] There is no government that I hold title for [11:37] which is different from the government [11:40] where the PCS is actually coordinator of government affairs. [11:45] I hear you, but let me allow Senator Kamau first to say something. [11:51] Thank you very much. [11:52] Now, before maybe you release the cabinet... [11:54] ... [11:55] ... [11:55] ... [12:02] ... [12:02] ... [12:07] ... [12:10] ... [12:11] ...